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00:00:01
Growth Part II
15 Plays2 years ago
A change is coming to the podcast, and we thought it was time to finally record part II of our Growth episode. The Ugly Podcast is both growing and shrinking! Growing in that guests will be joining in the following episodes to explore various topics on creativity and mindset in an explosion of creative genius (if I do say so myself). And shrinking in that our beloved Emerson is stepping away from the podcast. We chat about the reasonings behind this change and celebrate our wins and how far we’ve come together as creatives and entrepreneurs. Growth doesn’t happen in a vacuum, we grow when we’re supported and feel empowered to play and change. Be sure to thank the people in your life who’ve helped you grow, just like Emerson has helped me.
Do you have a message or story to share about creativity? If you’re interested in being a guest on The Ugly Podcast, message me on Instagram!
Be sure to stay connected with Emerson’s work. You can find them at @letsmakemoments on Instagram or at makinghappymemories.com.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to The Ugly Podcast. I'm Lauren. And I'm Emerson. And we're trying really hard not to try so hard. Come hang out with us as we talk about our passion for creativity, authenticity, and heart-centered entrepreneurship. Did I say that right? Yeah, definitely.
Lauren's Pronoun Journey
00:00:35
Speaker
Okay, welcome to the Ugly Podcast. This is a sad but also amazing episode. Yeah, I'm Lauren Alexander. My pronouns are she they, which I know is different and we could talk about it briefly. And my co host
00:00:58
Speaker
is? Emerson. I'm Emerson Lee, and I use they, them pronouns. And I'd love to hear about your change in your pronouns. Yeah, I'm not gonna go too deep into it. But I will just say briefly, that it has been on my mind for a long time. And honestly, it's like, you see people living out their gender expressions in such beautiful ways.
00:01:26
Speaker
And then you realize like, Oh, I'm allowed to do that. And so, um, yeah, there were just things that, um, you know, I don't, I don't need to go too far into it, but just suffice it to say that, uh, I am just somewhere in between non-binary and feminine and that's awesome. And I feel good there. That's very exciting. And I'm happy for you. Thanks.
00:01:55
Speaker
I think that is very true that seeing other people live their authentic expression allows us to do the same. And it really is as simple as that. There's often a lot more to our gender questioning and stuff, but it's also just like they're doing it. And I want to express myself in the ways that feel right to me too. And you are doing that. Yeah. And it's just like,
00:02:22
Speaker
you like you think you're supposed to fit into like a certain category all your life and then someone's just like oh yeah i kind of fit in that category but i also fit into this category and you're like what you can double class this is amazing dnd reference wow i see i had no idea i know you're like i know that you see it in your eyes
00:02:49
Speaker
Um, yes. So, okay. Kind of along that whole topic.
Emerson's Transition from the Podcast
00:02:54
Speaker
This today's conversation is our growth part two episode. Um, which we said we were going to do a long time ago and then we did it, which is fine. But because we have some news about the podcast and I'll let you share. Um, we thought that this would be a good opportunity to do growth part two finally. Yeah.
00:03:15
Speaker
I love the concept of doing a second growth episode because we've had so much growth, like both of us on so many levels in just a few months since the first one. Are you wanting me to share the news?
00:03:30
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So one of the elements of growth, we'll talk about all these things that have been happening over the past few months. And one of the things that came up for me is that I got a fatigue flare up for the first time in almost two years. It's related to starting a new job. I realize now I almost always get when I start a new job.
00:03:53
Speaker
And we were doing this podcast and you had brought up the idea of inviting a guest who I also know and love. And she was really excited about it and everyone's gonna get to meet her. And I just had this moment of realizing like, she and many other, oh, I have noises in the background. She and many other creatives in our circles and the whole world that you're connecting to,
00:04:21
Speaker
would be such great people for you to be talking to. So as my fatigue makes me have like take a step back in a lot of ways, it could allow you to step forward and have some really amazing creative conversations that I think will be so fascinating to see unfold and see where it leads both you and them and your worlds, your circles. So yeah, that didn't clearly state the news. I guess the news is I'm stepping back
00:04:49
Speaker
from the podcast to allow you to have more guests. It's not an official abrupt goodbye. I'm not doing this anymore. I might be on other episodes, but we don't know yet. Yeah. When you texted me that, I actually thought I was going to cry and then I didn't.
00:05:12
Speaker
but I was very, very sad. I was just like, oh God. And I told you, what did I tell you? I was like, I feel like a baby bird being pushed out of a nest.
00:05:26
Speaker
And I do like I have felt so comfortable doing this podcast with you and you make me feel so safe and like our conversations like I just feel like I'm talking to you like even when we're not recording I just feel like we're recording a podcast even though we're just chatting. We have podcasts for the conversations. Yes, that's what I'm saying. We're just very interesting people.
00:05:50
Speaker
No, but I mean that to say like I just feel like I'm myself around you and that's a very freeing thing to be able to just like talk on a podcast and not have a persona or not have to like try to change my voice or like, you know, that was like
00:06:05
Speaker
You've just made me feel so comfortable in this space. And so, yeah. You leaving the space is like, no, my comfort blanket. It's so funny, usually, that the baby bird reference, because I remember feeling like you said that. And I was like, yeah, I feel like we've been in the nest together. And we've just been growing and making our little bird noises and enjoying our safe little spot.
00:06:35
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. And creativity is our mama bird. She brings us crushed up worms and shoves them down our throats. That's how creativity works. Yeah. So one, I was very sad, but two, I'm also just really proud of where you're going. And I know you mentioned that it was
00:07:05
Speaker
like the fatigue flare up that really like prompted it. But the fatigue flare up came because you are fucking rocking it.
Reflections on Personal Achievements
00:07:13
Speaker
You're doing your program, you have this other job. I mean, you're killing it. And I'm so, so proud of you. And so yeah, you stepping back from this podcast is sad, but also I'm just like, yeah, go you you are doing such good work.
00:07:30
Speaker
So I'm very proud of you. I didn't think of it that way and I didn't think this conversation would be emotional like this. That's very nice. Now I'm sad. That is a great reframing. That's something I've been trying to sit with is like the fatigue flare-up feels all-encompassing but like
00:07:56
Speaker
It's coming at the end of a year where I've gotten married and moved and started this program and become the director of this other day program. And, you know, maybe my body just needs to slow down for a bit with that because it is a lot and it also needs to like regenerate, um, so that I can keep doing it moving forward. Cause that is, that is why I'm stepping back is like, I want to be really, really clear on what, where my energy is going and.
00:08:24
Speaker
I love our conversations and I want to have them all the time, but I also see it as being a better way for you to share your work with the world. So yeah, it's an interesting shift of like pushing you out of the nest so I can see you fly.
00:08:43
Speaker
Oh, we're both flying. Yeah, it's true. We're both jumping out at the same time. I'm not pushing you out. That's right. We're both jumping out of the nest. Yes, we're both flying away. When you said the baby bird thing, I was like, I feel so bad that I'm pushing you out. And now I'm like, Oh, yeah, no, we're just both baby birds. Yeah, I mean, we are we both started our businesses around the same time, you leading the way and then me following in your footsteps. And then yeah, things are just going really well. And
Lauren's Creative Path Forward
00:09:13
Speaker
I think
00:09:13
Speaker
I think in large part due to not just this podcast in general, but our work sessions together are really what made me gain confidence in what I was doing and make me want to start this and start other things. Even you just telling me, I think you have this great opportunity with this podcast, you had me just
00:09:37
Speaker
thinking of so many new ideas. And I have so many ideas for this podcast, and I already have a long list of people I want to interview. I actually just had my first interview on Monday with somebody that I'm really excited to share with everybody. And I was really nervous, but it went really well. It was great. So I'm excited to share that in a couple of weeks. Is that the person I know?
00:10:07
Speaker
No. Yeah, it's my sister in law introduced me to her. And so we talked about like, using art to heal PTSD and chronic pain. And so it's a really, it was a really nice conversation. And, and like, I just see it as
00:10:29
Speaker
a love letter to all creatives basically and like I want it to be a collaborative space too so I was thinking about like ads I could do and I could have like ads for other creative people who if they have like workshops or if like editors want to like advertise their services through the podcast like cool I don't know I just like my brain just like exploded with ideas and
00:10:51
Speaker
Honestly, it's like when somebody believes in you like you do, it's just like, yeah, I can do this. Like I do have good ideas. That's so nice to hear because I've literally felt bad the entire time. I pictured you just being like still just like sad because the last time we talked you were like, I'm sad, which I'm like, yes, me too. And so we both were just kind of in that sad space. And I'm so glad that like that evolved for you.
00:11:20
Speaker
Oh my god. Yeah, you're
Emerson's New Beginnings and Future Projects
00:11:22
Speaker
right. We like haven't talked a lot recently. The last thing you heard was me being like, you're kicking me out of the nest. That was literally like the last thing we said. And I was like, I feel bad. And we were like, we both feel bad. Oh my god.
00:11:41
Speaker
Okay, yes, well, we don't need to feel bad. I mean, we can still be sad about it, but we don't need to feel bad because there are good things on the horizon. I'm so excited for them. I think it's going to be really cool for you and for the other people and for everyone who listens. I think so too. Sorry, hold on, I need to blow my nose. I love that the Ugly podcast allows us to just blow our nose.
00:12:09
Speaker
because it'd be so exhausting to be like, oh, we got to edit this. I mean, I was going to edit that, but now I have to leave it in. Now you just have to leave it in. That's a good point. Well, maybe you can edit it out still.
00:12:27
Speaker
I mean, now I can't believe it just because that's hilarious. I was talking to, okay, along with the growth aspect, I just started business coaching with Tara Whittaker, who runs the freelance editors club, which I'm also a part of. And one of the things I was talking about how this podcast will be changing. And she was like, Oh, how often do you do that? I'm like, every other week, but I might change it to once a week. But it's also kind of a lot of work. And she's like, Oh, don't you just like record it and then like upload it? And I'm like,
00:12:57
Speaker
Oh, no, I edit everything and get rid of a lot of the likes and the ums because I say them a lot. She's like, just leave them. I can't I can't do it. I do leave a lot of them because it's just how I talk, but.
00:13:15
Speaker
I feel like this is the deep dark secret of the Ugly podcast. I didn't realize how editing it was. The deep dark secret is that it's not as ugly as I say it is. I had no idea.
00:13:30
Speaker
as much as I say that like I have my perfectionism under control and I do like the fact that I'm able to just release this podcast period is proof that my perfectionism is not in control anymore. But I still have to let it do some of the things. It's like you're not gonna write the first draft of an essay and then turn it in like you're still gonna write it, which is harder. As you know, it's part of what makes perfectionism hard is you have to do it a little bit. It's just hard to know where the line is.
00:14:00
Speaker
Yes, exactly. So it's okay that you edit the essay. Thank you. So I did so I really listened to our first growth episode this morning. And I did really like the fact that so we recorded that in June, I think it was. And you like were just announcing your program on that episode. I think that was like, like the first or second time you were announcing it. And I was just like,
00:14:30
Speaker
Like, and now like one of the main reasons you're leaving is because that's in full swing. And I'm just like, so proud. Yeah, I am trying to think. I can't remember how many, how many participants I had at the time, but I know that I got some final participants in July. So I think when we talked, I still was like, this might be like one or two or three people. And if so, that's just fine. Like, we'll just have a chill small thing. Um,
00:14:57
Speaker
But by early July, I had eight participants and yeah, it is in full swing. People are really connecting with it. Um, we've just had one module and I can already see them like totally getting it and like bringing it into their daily lives and like all of us sharing that experience. And it's, it's cooler than I even thought it'd be. And I thought it'd be really cool. So great. Yeah.
00:15:26
Speaker
How else are you growing right now? Like, how does this how? Yeah, how do you feel right now? In in your growth journey? Yeah, one of the things I noticed most from our first episode was that we did not yet have somewhere to live. We were in a hotel and I didn't have a job. I don't think my partner had yet gotten their job.
00:15:55
Speaker
So that, I mean, housing and two jobs totally changes the life that you can have because now I feel grounded in my life here and I'm able to do so much more with my life because I'm not spending all my energy on a move.
00:16:11
Speaker
that our move happened over a few different months. So yeah, now that I'm here and like have a foundation, I'm able to be doing things like writing and developing the program further. I'm just starting to connect with some local organizations who do some really cool work.
00:16:28
Speaker
So there's a lot of different things that I am able to do that I couldn't before Which is frustrating because with the fatigue I could be doing so much more and I have to like Do this all slowly, but I can see it all evolving That just reminded me of another thing you said on the other episode was like you felt like you were a blossom and
00:16:55
Speaker
but you didn't know what you were going to look like yet. And so as you're talking about having to go slowly, it's kind of like slowly just like a flower blooms. It doesn't go all at once. Yeah. Like day by day, slowly by, like slow pedal by pedal, like slowly unfolding. I love that because I wrote a poem and actually got it published recently where I believe I used the term slow motion fireworks, that flowers are slow motion fireworks.
Webinar on Dementia Perceptions
00:17:24
Speaker
Yeah and that yeah when my fatigue was I felt like I was in like remission like I was like I'm I don't have to get all I had so much energy I could do so much and I felt like fireworks all the time like every day it was like all these fireworks going off and it felt great um and now it is it's a lot more like a flower blooming it takes a lot more time
00:17:47
Speaker
and you can't rush it and it's not as fast and spectacular, but it is rewarding when the flowers do bloom. Yeah, absolutely. Really quick. I don't know if it's my internet or yours, but your face looks like a monster and I have to take a screenshot of it and send it to you because it's so funny. It's frozen?
00:18:11
Speaker
Yeah, it keeps frozen, but then parts of it keep moving. And so then you just look like an absolute monster.
00:18:19
Speaker
Amazing. I love it. But that brings up a good point. I wasn't going to mention this in here because it's kind of in the future, but I'm going to be doing a free webinar called Zombies, Ghosts, and Skeletons. Have I told you about it? No. Oh my gosh. I'm so excited for it. And I'm so excited that it's free so that I don't have to promote it and stuff. I can just be like, here's a link. Come to the thing.
00:18:41
Speaker
So it's called Zombies, Ghosts, and Skeletons. I don't have the tagline yet, but it's going to be something like challenging, horror-based descriptions of dementia. Because people refer to people living with dementia as zombies a lot. And also like ghosts, like they, you know, when people like wander around and stuff, like people perceive them as just like kind of a, like a specter of who they once were.
00:19:08
Speaker
Um, and skeletons too, like, you know, when someone gets older, when they've lost a lot of weight, um, you know, we just use a lot of that imagery, like they've wasted away. Um, so all of those, there's a ton of examples of that language being used. And there's also a lot of people working to challenge that language. Um, and it's just a really cool thing people don't realize they're doing. Like they, we, most of us do use zombies, ghosts, and skeletons to relate to people with dementia.
00:19:38
Speaker
And we don't have to, so it's going to be really like rehumanizing and encouraging people to think of like, how, how can we see them as full living people? Yeah. That's so cool. It'll be in around Halloween. It's the end of October and it is kind of light promotion for my program. Like if people are interested in the program, it's a lot like what it would be like. It's a lot of the same content concepts, the group,
00:20:05
Speaker
conversations and connections. So it's, it's like giving a free sneak peek into the program. Awesome. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I'm excited. One of the editors in the club was we were all I was getting ideas and feedback on my marketing and stuff. And Carissa was like, well, for for Halloween, you can have the theme be exercise the perfectionist.
00:20:35
Speaker
I was like, that's hilarious. And it's great. Like you could really have some fun with that. Yeah. So you might see some exorcists.
00:20:48
Speaker
Jokes on my page in the coming weeks. I don't know if you were seriously considering it, but that could be a really fascinating way to combine your ex-religious work with, or deconverted, is that the term?
Lauren's Business Focus and Author Support
00:21:04
Speaker
Deconverted? Yeah, deconverted. Yeah, so deconversion and creativity, because you could be drawing in people who are both perfectionists and former religious people. That's true. I like that.
00:21:18
Speaker
Yeah. What else? Well, I'm curious how you're growing, especially you're mentioning the club and the coaching program. Are you seeing shifts and kind of like leaps and bounds with some of your things you're working on? Yeah, I've gotten so many good ideas from this group. Like I feel
00:21:41
Speaker
I feel so empowered around them and I feel, I mean, everybody just pours out their knowledge and like wants to boost everybody up and I love it. One of the things that we're talking about in the coaching is like
00:21:58
Speaker
I've been feeling like my business like a few times I've, I've commented that my business is just like a creative blob of something like I don't know what exactly it is, but it's something. And so I've been talking with Tara about how to actually like
00:22:19
Speaker
make it something and like have it have some kind of structure so that people actually know what it is I do instead of me just being like I don't know I edit things and I talk about perfectionism and I don't know what else. So we've been getting some like really good ideas on how to really streamline everything and pull it all together into a coherent business that's like
00:22:49
Speaker
focusing on perfectionism and how it relates to publishing a book. And in our, we just had our first session on Tuesday and yesterday. Is that yesterday? That was yesterday. And yeah, we were just talking about like, what my mission statement should be. And it was really exciting to like, see it come together of like, oh, I want to prepare authors to actually let go of their work so that they can move on to the next thing. Because so often it's like,
00:23:18
Speaker
an author will have a manuscript, they've written it, but either they're scared to get it edited or have anybody read it or they just like give up because it's not coming together the way they think. And then it just goes nowhere. So like my goal is to help those authors be like, no, you're ready for editing. Let's get this thing edited. Let's get this thing published. And then you can move on to your next project, which will be better than this one because you'll have more experience, you know.
00:23:48
Speaker
So that's really exciting. Yeah, that is really exciting. That's really cool that you have had that support to guide you to, you know, that evolution of your work. Yeah, well it's amazing like how many different ideas people have and like if you're trying to do if you're trying to run a business in a vacuum like you just get you run into so many walls you just feel so cramped and shut in and
00:24:16
Speaker
There's just like, it's hard to make those connections to other ideas. But when you're just like talking to the people like, hey, I've been kind of stuck with this thing. And then they're like, oh, well, I remember you did this other thing. And you could pull that in and make these connections. And you're just like, oh my god, I never would have thought of that. It's just so helpful to have people around you making those connections with you and then helping you grow from there. Yeah.
00:24:44
Speaker
This is reminding me I'm making some connections right now. So you're talking about that experience with that group. And then I was just talking with Mary Fridley from Reimagining Dementia. I was telling her about the synergy I feel in my group settings with my program. And she comes from a background of social therapeutics. And the whole concept of social therapeutics is
00:25:09
Speaker
like bringing people together in community and collaboration to develop, they use the word develop a lot, and to grow and evolve, and kind of having people that just, I don't want to say push you, because I feel like that has like a connotation of like pushing yourself, but like that help you grow and evolve. And
00:25:36
Speaker
I wasn't intentionally trying to do social therapeutics and nor are you, but we're both finding ourselves in these settings where we're like, oh wow, it's kind of a magical thing that happens.
00:25:48
Speaker
Like working with you, I felt challenged to continue growing. I didn't, I didn't get stuck in my comfort zone and think like, okay, well, this is comfortable. I'll just keep doing this. Like, cause I probably would have gotten stuck and felt frustrated that it wasn't working and I wouldn't have had the confidence to be like, no, I can try something else. I can explore this other thing. Um.
00:26:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's really hard to do things on your own. And when you have people challenging you, or even just like people who are pushing themselves and challenging themselves, it's inspirational. So then be like, Oh, like just to be around those people like, Oh, I can do this too. Yeah. And you can be that person for someone else. You can have other people do that for you. You can, you know, it's this like this giving and receiving ebb and flow and exchange that is really cool.
00:26:44
Speaker
Yeah. That's
Community Influence on Gender Expression,
00:26:46
Speaker
so interesting. I feel like that's been a theme because even we were talking earlier about pronouns and stuff. And one of the really interesting things about our wedding is that I believe there are five people after our wedding who are now using different pronouns. And at least a couple of them have said that that was part of it is like being around other people, because there were a lot of people at our wedding that use different pronouns and had different gender expressions and
00:27:15
Speaker
some of the people hadn't really been around that very much. And then they were like, oh my gosh, I also want to express myself in this way. So you are one of multiple people who have had that kind of happening at the same time from the same, you know, environments.
00:27:30
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that's like, especially since coming to this realization, conclusion, whatever you want to call it, that I want to go by she and they, I like, I just feel so grateful for the people who have come before me who are like, no, I don't need to be one certain way. I can be
00:27:51
Speaker
like so expansive in my gender expression like I don't have to fit into the binary or even what would you call it the trinary because like I don't know if that's a word but like I I had been in this mindset of like yes I had I had recognized yes there are like there's masculine feminine and non-binary and like agender but like I hadn't
00:28:19
Speaker
come to the realization that like, oh wait, there's just like, like those aren't specific categories. Those are like points on a line and you get to be wherever you want on that line or off the line or wherever like wherever you want. And I just, your brain just doesn't always recognize what your options are until you see other people venturing forth. And then you're like, oh,
00:28:48
Speaker
Well yeah, that seems more comfortable to me. Yeah, and more fun too. Yeah. I've heard that discourse around non-binary that in a lot of ways mainstream society hasn't even begun to think about non-binary people. We're barely in, especially reality TV. I've never seen any non-binary person on any show or anything.
00:29:18
Speaker
there is a mainstream idea of like, Oh yes, you can be male, female or non binary. And it's seen as this like catch all third gender. And one of the things that community does is say, no, it's more expansive than that. It's not, you can't just like simplify it into just like, Oh, other, you know, it's right. Gender expression is so unique and so expansive and is, you know,
00:29:44
Speaker
evolving and multidimensional and everyone's is so different. And it's it's a active creativity to express yourself and evolve. Yeah. Yeah, I love it. And I'm, I'm grateful to you and your friendship because obviously, like you were the person that planted that seed for me. And yeah, then just like, everything that's followed has just been like,
00:30:15
Speaker
opening up more and more to what and who I am. And that's been this whole last year with my business too. I didn't know that I was the kind of person that could.
00:30:29
Speaker
start a podcast. I didn't know that I could start writing a book. I didn't know that I could make ugly things and have so much fun doing it that that's like all I want to do ever now. There's just been so much growth in these last year and a half, however long it's been since I've started this business and
00:30:55
Speaker
started opening myself up to possibilities that never seemed like options to me in, in my old job, in my old way of thinking, like, I just didn't know these were options. And they're so much better. I love that feeling. And I wish there was a specific word for it. But that feeling of I didn't know
00:31:22
Speaker
that this is someone I could be or something I could do. Like it's, there's a very specific like revelation that happens there where you're like, Oh, like even something as simple, like, um, you know, I didn't like tomatoes my entire life. And then recently I don't, I don't love them, but I'll eat them and be like, these are good. Like, and I didn't think I was someone who, who liked them. Like it's.
00:31:46
Speaker
you know, we have these rigid expectations for ourselves. And there's something really specific that happens when you're like, Oh, no, I don't, that's, I don't have to do that. I can be, you know, someone totally different than what I thought. Yes. It's so fun to surprise yourself in that way. Yeah. Which is a form of playfulness. Like I talk about playfulness a lot. And I try to build it into my life. And, you know, even I still have this concept that playfulness is going out on the swings or
00:32:16
Speaker
you know, blowing bubbles, which it can be. But it's also the playfulness of like, I'm going to try this food and oh, actually, I like it. And, you know, surprising finding those little surprises in your daily life that sometimes are really small and sometimes are huge. Yeah. But we get so yeah. And like, that's where letting go of perfectionism comes in because like, you don't know
00:32:44
Speaker
You're not going to surprise yourself if you're continually striving for a certain ideal or a certain way that you have to act or be or think. If you're constantly striving for that, then you're not going to surprise yourself and you're not going to grow like you might if you're willing to embrace the playful aspect of life and creativity and try new things. But yeah.
00:33:14
Speaker
I'm always going to bring it back around to perfectionism. I love that, not to create a binary, but the distinction between perfectionism and playfulness, because it really is. Perfectionism is so rigid, and it's putting yourself in a box of these really intense expectations that everything's perfect all the time, and playfulness is just so
00:33:44
Speaker
There's so much more flexibility and openness and flow and exchange and all these things that release us. I want to tell this story, but I don't want to give details as to who this person is. I'm so excited. It's not even bad. I can just imagine that this person wouldn't like me saying this.
00:34:12
Speaker
I'm gonna keep it vague. Only a couple people will know who I'm talking about. But so I know this person who is just so concerned with how they appear to those around them that like, even when they are doing an activity like wakeboarding or something that's supposed to be fun, they will just like get this super competitive like
00:34:39
Speaker
like, I don't know how to describe this look on this person's face. But it's just like, I can do this and like, I've got this and like, but they're not having fun at all. They're just, they're just constantly trying to like show off kind of and like, make it look like, no, I know what I'm doing at all times instead of just like letting go and having fun on this like,
00:35:03
Speaker
Random activity, that's supposed to be fun. You have to constantly be putting a face on and constantly be striving to do it exactly right and perfectly. And it's just like, no, just let go. Just have fun. Stop putting on this face. It drives me nuts because I'm just like, you need to have more fun if you like. Yeah.
00:35:30
Speaker
Yeah, I'm like, as you're saying that, I'm like thinking of all the people I know who would fit into that category of, you know, this really loving these really like neat, perfect lives where you never do something that scares you or is unexpected. And it's, it is sad. People need to have more fun.
00:35:49
Speaker
Yeah, or even if you are willing to try new things, you're like, okay, I'll try something new, but I have to get it right. Like I have to get it exactly right. And I have to do it perfectly. It's like, but that's not fun. Yeah. I'm having a really sad thought thinking about people in my life who I can't think of having done something new in potentially years or decades. Yeah.
00:36:19
Speaker
And then people who have surprised me by doing new different things like my grandma Momo.
Momo's Creative Transformation
00:36:26
Speaker
We you and I work together on putting together a book of her stories and we I turned that into a book that we've we've
00:36:38
Speaker
printed and stuff, just a, you know, self published thing. But she's she's an author and she's now like she's like signing her books and giving them to her, her loved ones. And it's so cool seeing her be 92 and being in that way of published author. Yes. So yeah, that was so good. Yeah, so proud of Momo. She did so good. She Yeah, her stories were
00:37:06
Speaker
we just barely put them together like they were so well written and we're basically ready to put all together into a story that really surprised her because she wrote these stories like 20 years ago and then lost them somewhere like in a closet and when I brought them out and I put them into an order I was like you have a story here like you have a plot it all makes sense
00:37:30
Speaker
And then that really shocked her to be like, Oh, really? Like she thought she was just writing all these disparate pieces, which I guess relates back to how we've talked about our businesses and creative work and stuff that we feel the same way where it's like, Oh, I thought I was just doing this random stuff. And then it comes together and becomes, you know, a complete picture. Yep. Exactly. But you wouldn't know that if you weren't willing to like make the pieces as it were. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:01
Speaker
Well, do you have any last thoughts on growth and what this next period of your life looks like? Um, give me a while to think my thoughts. It's interesting because when you ask that it reminds me that I haven't done a lot of looking forward. Like I feel like I'm very
00:38:30
Speaker
focused on like I'm like looking down at like the step I'm on and then the next step or two and I you know the step I'm on is a lot of fatigue and managing that and then the step or two ahead is starting the next round of my program and you asking that question reminds me to like look up and look ahead and around and imagine what it could be like and that it could be totally different than I'd expected
Growth and Vision Beyond Social Media
00:38:58
Speaker
Um, which I'll share this with you too. I haven't, I haven't shared this yet, but I think it's relevant for you and for me both. Um, I was talking with a friend recently, um, who's also building a practice and an Instagram page. And sometimes we commiserate about, you know, seeing other people go viral and how could we do that too? We have messages we want to share just like you do too. And she's been getting some coaching and someone told her like,
00:39:27
Speaker
you're, you're looking too small, like going viral on Instagram, having 20, 50, 100,000 followers on Instagram. That's, that's small, like, and this coach told her like, you're Brene Brown, you're, you're meant to be your message is meant to be way out there for everyone, like tons of people reading your book, and, you know, hearing your message and you being on talk shows, you know, that kind of thing where, you know, we get stuck in that idea that
00:39:56
Speaker
you know, just Instagram is the only place to share a message. And yeah, it can be so much bigger than that. And you know, whether it's that we all become Bernie Browns or other variations of going bigger and broader than we think, there is a lot more out there for us.
00:40:13
Speaker
Yes. And I, I love that and appreciate that of like, not taking, not putting social media on such a high platform. Cause yeah, it's, there's a whole wide world outside of social media. And even though it's like a lot harder to maybe imagine what that kind of marketing looks like or how to get yourself out there, like there is just like so much more. Yeah. Yeah. My, um,
00:40:42
Speaker
my end-of-life doula trainer, the program I went through going with Grace. A. Lua is like the CNN correspondent for death-related things. Oh, wow. Yeah. And I've seen her face on CNN articles and stuff. And it's the same concept. She started really small like we did and probably never imagined that's a place she'd get to and what places might we get to that we don't imagine. She was recently on a podcast with Glennon Doyle.
00:41:09
Speaker
You know, yeah, yeah. Um, will we ever be on a podcast with Glenn and Doyle or talk to Oprah or Renee Brown? Like are those things that might be in our future or equivalent things of like really sharing our passions and our, you know, message on a wide scale? Cause I think that's what growth, at least in our businesses, that's what growth looks like is, you know, how big can you share this? How many people can you support and, you know, evolve alongside?
00:41:40
Speaker
Yeah. So that was, that was a long answer to, uh, my final thoughts on growth. Oh, I love it. It's so true. Yeah. I'm really, I'm going to hold on to that. I'm really stuck in the one or two steps ahead thing right now, which fatigue necessitates, but it is nice to think bigger.
00:42:06
Speaker
I might go do some like journaling and see even, you know, just personally, like what I want in my personal life and, you know, looking down the road for that. And yeah. So thank you for that question. Do you have any final thoughts on growth?
00:42:25
Speaker
You know, I'm just really looking forward to seeing what happens next. I feel like I have so many things that are still like under development right now. Like I'm redoing my ugly art course and trying to revamp this podcast now.
00:42:43
Speaker
And I'm I'm exploring another big project that I'm excited about. And so, yeah, I'm just excited to see where this goes. And yeah, I don't know. I'm just really I'm really proud of us for where we've come and.
00:43:00
Speaker
Um, I also do appreciate that. Um, I know you said that like with the fatigue, you, it's hard to look ahead, but I think it's important to just like be in the moment with what you're, with where you're at, you know? And you have such, well, we both have such cool things happening right now. So let's be in the moment. That is very true. Cause this moment right here now is so far beyond what we had anticipated.
00:43:28
Speaker
10 to 12 years ago. We would not ever have imagined any of this and would have been in a lot of ways ecstatic. So it's kind of twofold of letting ourselves dream about the future and look ahead and then also recognizing that we're living the dream too. I love it. So this isn't goodbye. This won't be your last ugly art that you have to tell me about.
00:43:59
Speaker
I guess last for a little while. What is your, what ugly things have you made this week? Um, I'm going to ask you to share yours first cause I have a really sweet story to tell you and I think it'd be a great way to end this conversation. Oh, okay. Um, I've been saving it for you. Oh, I'm excited. Um, I, this is hard cause I, I recorded on Monday and I already said the ugly thing that I made most recently. So, um,
00:44:27
Speaker
But I have made other things, I just have to think of them. That could be a little bit of uglyception that the ugly thing you made was an ugly podcast where you talked about the ugly art that you did.
00:44:39
Speaker
Yes. Well, and that episode is going to be ugly because my microphone crapped out while recording it. And so it's all like scratchy and it's really bad. But you know what? It's going out anyway. So prepare yourselves people next week. My microphone sucks, but I'm not the one talking most of the time. So it works out.
00:45:03
Speaker
But I was gonna say this isn't exactly, it wasn't an ugly thing per se, but like one of the like kind of more ugly feelings I've been working on or I'm going to be working on throughout September is actually finding rest because I am the type of person that like I'm always like my hands twitching for my phone, I'm always like searching, like I need to be doing something.
00:45:25
Speaker
And so resting without watching TV, without looking at my phone, that kind of rest is very difficult for me. So I'm practicing that this month.
00:45:36
Speaker
It just brings up a lot of very ugly feelings of just like, nah, I need to do something. And so what I did was I was sitting out on my deck and I kept having thoughts. I'm just like, oh, I should do a reel about this. Oh, I have an idea for something else. And then I was like, no, you're not going to go grab your phone and do that right now. You're going to stay here.
00:45:57
Speaker
in this spot. And so then I just like jotted down like notes on a page and just like I had them all spread out. I didn't even make it like line by line. I just was like
00:46:09
Speaker
blah, like jotting down basically like words to like get them out of my head. So not even to like refer to them later, but just like, I'm emptying my head of this thought by writing it on this page. And so it's just a, it's a paper with a bunch of random words and thoughts on it. So that's my ugly thing. Yeah, I like that. That's a good practice. Yeah, ended up working pretty well. Cool.
00:46:40
Speaker
I'm excited for this story. Yes. Okay, you're gonna like it. So I wanted to tell you about it immediately when it happened, and then I've been saving it. So at this day program that I work at, we were supposed to have an art session with like a group that comes in and does art with us.
00:47:01
Speaker
And they didn't show up. And we don't know why still. But they weren't there. So then someone just brought out some random art supplies. And it was just random stuff. It wasn't anything we could really, nobody know what to do with it. So we had paper and some random short colored pencils and stuff. And one of the other ladies in the program, she's one of the volunteers,
00:47:29
Speaker
I said something about ugly art. I was like, I have a friend who does ugly art, like intentionally, you know, does stuff that, you know, looks bad just to get it out of you. And she was like, I hear it's good for your brain to make stuff that looks realistic. And I was like, it's actually really good for you to, you know, just express anything and just draw
00:47:52
Speaker
whatever comes to mind, just be silly. And I said that and then I just kind of kept working with the person I was working with. And I looked over 10 or 15 minutes later, and I saw on her page, she'd drawn just like hearts and squiggles and like all this random stuff. And I was like, we just did ugly art. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah, it was really sweet because it was, you know, I've seen your ugly art and mine and
00:48:21
Speaker
people's from your ugly art sessions and stuff and it was just so sweet to see this like older lady do a little piece of ugly art.
00:48:32
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. Especially, you said that in the beginning she was like, no, I do like realistic art. And then you're like, well, actually it doesn't, you don't have to do it that way. Like, it's like just getting that permission, that like small voice of like, hey, you don't have to make this look any kind of way. And sometimes all someone needs to just be like, oh, fun, that I'm just going to let go and make this silly thing.
00:48:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It was a really sweet moment, especially cause a lot of times when people say stuff like that, like it's better for your brain to, you know, make something realistic. It's coming from a place of fear around brain health and the failings of our brains and giving her that permission that like your brain can just throw out some ugly stuff and you can have fun with it. And that's good too. Like you're, you're safe in that place where things aren't perfect and neat and tidy.
00:49:25
Speaker
And that's one of the things I work on in my program and in my practice with dementia is that we can be imperfect in our brains too. We can have brains that fail us and we can still inhabit them and inhabit life and live it fully. I love it. Thank you so much for sharing that with me. Yeah. And for sharing my ugly art message with everyone you know, because I truly appreciate it. I was very excited to tell them about it. And I don't think they fully understood it partially because
00:49:54
Speaker
We weren't equipped to be doing it at that moment because we just didn't have a lot of structure or supplies, but I am hoping to do actual ugly art with them. Um, cause I'm, I'm still shadowing. I'm not yet the director, but when I'm the director, I can do things like that and do more creative things. Like today we're going to do some creative storytelling today. We're going to do some ugly art and we're going to, you know, try these different things. And I totally plan to bring your stuff into it.
00:50:21
Speaker
And if you want to come visit us while we do it, you are totally welcome. Oh my gosh. That'd be so fun. I absolutely would do that. Yeah. They're, they're wonderful people. I love them. I also, one of the things I love about working with people with dementia and like, you know, from working with anyone that you never know what someone's going to create. You have no idea what's going to end up on that page. And that's so exciting to witness.
00:50:49
Speaker
It's so fun. I love that moment of just pure delight when I see what people have made. It's just so, it's so great. Because it's always so different. And you would never be seeing that if you weren't supporting them and guiding them in releasing that from their brains. I have another cute ugly story I can tell you too quickly.
00:51:16
Speaker
please do um so i don't know how it came up but i don't tend to think of my partner as a very creative person like they do a lot of crafts like um crochet and sewing and woodworking and so they're they're really good at that kind of stuff but the kind of silly stuff i don't see as much from them but i it is there and the other day i don't know i have no idea how it even came up but suddenly they were talking about like
00:51:46
Speaker
king Corgulus or something, uh, cause we have a Corgi and like a little king sitting in the yard. And so my partner suddenly came up with this whole story about this, like king Corgi and his whole kingdom. And, um, I rolled over the land and I was like, you should have a, like, you should make that a children's book. Like just, just for fun, not like you don't have to publish it, but just like make it. And they were like, I was actually just thinking that. Oh, yeah.
00:52:15
Speaker
Apparently they've had the thought at multiple times throughout their life that they would like to like write or draw children's books. So I'm going to be nudging that. Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. So lots of ugly, beautiful things happening all around. Yay. That's all I want. Yeah. Your vision is unfolding.
00:52:43
Speaker
I want to add to that too. I don't think I would have responded to their story in the same way if it weren't for you. And I could feel like the energy of ugly art was in that conversation of being like, just make it. Just make it, just have fun with it. And you could see they kind of lit up. They were like, oh yeah, I could do that. Yeah. Oh my gosh, the spirit of ugly art.
00:53:11
Speaker
It moves us all. It moves us all. It's my new, my new savior, the ugly art. Yes. Well, do you have any final thoughts or things you want to share?
00:53:27
Speaker
Um, not well, yes, actually. Um, so for anybody listening, so this podcast is going to be opening up to guests and I do have a list of people that I'm going to start inviting. But if you want to come on this podcast and just talk about your creative process, talk about what it's like for you to create in general, or if you have had like a specific story that you want to share about creativity, um,
00:53:56
Speaker
or about just like how you started making art or writing or whatever it is you do, please reach out to me. Just DM me on Instagram at scribe and sunshine. And yeah, we'll get it set up. I don't have any like kind of criteria or anything. If you're a creative person and you want to talk to me for 45 minutes, let's do it.
00:54:18
Speaker
Yeah. And they're fun conversations because it's an ugly podcast. It's not, it doesn't have that intensity of being like on a podcast. And so it's just fun and it's a nice, you're a nice conversation partner. And I think anyone who has any inkling towards talking with you, if they have anything they want to share or just want to have that conversation, I think it'd be really cool. Yeah.
00:54:44
Speaker
And especially like if you have something you want to promote, like you have a book coming out that you want to talk about, like you want to talk about what it was like to write it or, you know, like, yeah, I absolutely want to help you. Not that this podcast has like a huge following or anything, but like, I don't know, but I'm happy to talk to you and talk about your book and whatever else. So yeah, let's do it. There's a huge power in that too, that you, you get to share their stuff with
00:55:11
Speaker
your world and vice versa. Um, we all have our own circles and I think that people would get to be shared in your amazing circle of creative people. And then, um, you know, it's, it's just a nice, mutually beneficial kind of getting to share the creative energy together. Yeah, that's exactly my vision for it. It's just like, I want to help you thrive and you want to help me thrive.
00:55:37
Speaker
And we're just going to help other creatives find a safe space to make mistakes and make messy art. And yeah, that's all I want. You are going to have some fantastic conversations. I think so. I'm really excited. I've already had one, and it was awesome. And I'm preparing for the other one at the end of the month. So yeah, it's all going to be very good. Yay. Awesome.
00:56:06
Speaker
All right. Well, do you want to plug anything? I, um, I was just thinking I perhaps will come back on for another episode to talk about my program and my book, but I want to leave this conversation on the invitation for guests to reach out to you because I think that is the most, uh, meaningful opportunity for people right now. Oh, thank you. Yeah. I love you. I love you too.
00:56:38
Speaker
This has been so good. I don't want to stop recording. Well, like you said, it's not goodbye. And we will be on another time and have even more to talk about because there are always such great things that you've done since then and that I've done. Yes, agreed. Cool. Well, keep it ugly. Keep it ugly.
00:57:03
Speaker
The Ugly podcast is created by Emerson Lee of Happy Memories Elder Support and Lauren Alexander of Scribe and Sunshine. It is produced by us and directed by absolutely no one. If you like the podcast, be sure to rate and leave a review on your preferred platform and share with the creatives and entrepreneurs in your life. Keep it ugly, everybody.