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Fun and Creativity
21 Plays2 years ago
In this episode, Lauren and Emerson discuss fun and creativity and how we can merge those two things. We don’t always associate creativity with fun, and we want to change that. We get into what kinds of things we find to be really fun and try to figure out how we can incorporate our preferred genre of fun into creativity to break up some of that “homework energy.” The consensus? Creating is magic. And we should all be more silly.
Recommendations:
Power of Fun by Catherine Price
Ologies with Alie Ward
Maria Bowler Instagram
Get to know us:
Lauren @scribeandsunshine
Emerson @letsmakemoments
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Transcript
Introduction to The Ugly Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to The Ugly Podcast. I'm Lauren. And I'm Emerson. And we're trying really hard not to try so hard. Come hang out with us as we talk about our passion for creativity, authenticity, and heart-centered entrepreneurship. Did I say that right? Yeah, definitely.
00:00:35
Speaker
You sound like Marcel. Okay. Okay. Okay. Welcome to the Ugly Podcast, everybody. Oh my god, it's giving me an alert again saying that it's losing connection. No. I'm hearing you very, very clearly. Okay. Okay, well, the listeners can just hear my trepidation and fear of my internet right now.
00:01:03
Speaker
That's the most ugly we've ever been. Truly, truly. So we've been having some internet issues and I'm terrified that I'm just gonna become a choppy mess. Okay, but it says it's working. Welcome to the Ugly podcast. We remain ugly to this day.
00:01:24
Speaker
And this is the podcast where we talk about all things ugly, mostly creativity, and what it's like to run businesses.
Hosts' Backgrounds and Ventures
00:01:34
Speaker
My name is Lauren Alexander. I use she, her pronouns. And my business is Scribe and Sunshine. I am an editor and a creativity, encourager, cheerleader, coach person.
00:01:48
Speaker
And I am Emerson. I use they, them pronouns. I'm the founder of Happy Memories Elder Support. I'm a certified differential practitioner and an end of life doula. And I really love to support elders in living fully, especially those with dementia.
Obligations vs. Fun in Modern Life
00:02:05
Speaker
Okay. So today we're going to talk about fun, which is fun. What drew you to this conversation topic?
00:02:18
Speaker
That's such a multi-layered question because I feel like there's been multiple converging paths. But one that I don't think I realized is that my practice and my work is super fun.
00:02:33
Speaker
And they don't realize that. When I say that, I say I work with people with dementia. And they're like, oh, that's so dark. And it's like, we have so much fun. Every single day I've ever spent with people with dementia, we laugh and have fun and share meaningful things like music and art and nature and food. So I think that's one of the underlying things. And then because I have so much fun with people in my work,
00:03:03
Speaker
also want to have fun in my personal life. And that's something that's often harder for me to do. And so I've gotten a lot more intentional about trying to play and enjoy life and have fun in all the ways that I support other people in doing and then sometimes forget to do for myself. Yeah, it's really easy to forget to have fun, or to like think that you're doing what you like doing, but you're not actually having fun. There's so little room for fun in modern
00:03:32
Speaker
American life. Yes. We have so many obligations. And then once we're done with those obligations, we don't want to do anything else. And so even doing things that are fun still feels like effort. And so we don't want to do them. Yeah, we're basically either working or decompressing from work by scrolling or binge watching. Yes. And that doesn't
00:03:59
Speaker
fill us back up. That just leaves us feeling more drained. Yeah. And it's so frustrating because it's you know, there's no moral quality to that. It's not there's nothing wrong with that. It's something we're doing to fulfill this, which is, you know, the purpose is that we're stressed out like crazy. But then, you know, it's just so hard to like, like, yes, I need to decompress, but I also want to do meaningful things and have fun. And that feels like effort, but also would be enriching and fulfilling.
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you said that about like it's not a moral failing because a lot of times it can feel like that. It's just like I should be doing something else. Like I should be doing something that's actually fulfilling but I'm like stuck watching alone and the show not like by myself.
00:04:50
Speaker
and scrolling through Instagram. And then when I'm done with Instagram, I scroll through Reddit, you know, and then you feel bad about yourself. But it's like, it's not that you are a bad person that you're doing that you just like are stuck in this cycle because it's comfortable and we're too stressed out to do anything about it.
00:05:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's that's one of the most helpful things I found about most behaviors is that we're usually doing them because they're effectively doing something for us. And they're helping us in some way. And so then it's a matter of recognizing like, what's the need that I'm trying to fulfill instinctively? And how can I more intentionally fulfill it and maybe a way that's going to be better for me? Yeah, exactly.
Defining and Finding Fun
00:05:33
Speaker
So I was thinking of talking specifically about creativity with this and like talking about how we tie fun into creativity because that's like what my business has really been like aiming towards. But first, I think your question is a good thing to kind of do it like a base layer of like what is fun, you know?
00:06:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's a really good compass and barometer. Because there's so little room for fun, we often don't even have much of a relationship to it. So my first question when I think about fun is, what kinds of things do I find to be really fun? And so I'll ask you, what kinds of things do you find to be really fun? I really like anything silly and absurd
00:06:29
Speaker
So if I'm in a situation where I can just be really silly, I'm having fun. And also, like, areas of exploration, like looking for mushrooms in the forest, or exploring tide pools at the beach, or something where I get to just be curious and sometimes find gross, slimy things, and then just laugh at how crazy the world is.
00:07:00
Speaker
That's really fun to me. I love that. Like, I feel like absurdity and exploration and exploration of absurd things. Yes. Which is also why I really love the podcast ologies.
00:07:16
Speaker
because she just explores all of these various scientific realms, and they're just always so interesting and surprising, and there's usually gross things involved, and I just love it so much. I didn't know you liked gross things so much. Well, it's like, it's mostly like, especially in nature, when you find out that some animal, like,
00:07:43
Speaker
I'm trying to think of an example and of course I can't. But like when some animal does something like really ridiculous like
00:07:51
Speaker
eat their own poop. I don't know. Like, some animals just have some crazy behaviors that you're just like, what? Like, what is that? Why does that exist? And or like, animals that eat their young, it's just like, what? Nature's so gnarly, like, why? I don't know. It mostly just makes me laugh and just marvel at how wild the world is. That
00:08:21
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like we don't think about that very often. And that's a cool perspective. Thank you. What about you? What do you find really fun?
Art, Writing, and the Joy of Creativity
00:08:34
Speaker
Yeah, this is something I've been exploring for a while and getting clear on recently, I took on like a plate assessment of all these different types of play. And none of them really resonated. Like a lot of them were like imaginative or dramatic or rough and tumble.
00:08:50
Speaker
So I came up with my own. I love kinesthetic things like climbing a tree or swinging on a swing. I love swings. Yeah. And that's a whole other thing. They're so they're regulating. Like it's a regulating thing. Like it's exhilarating and regulating to our bodies to like do things that are rhythmic.
00:09:13
Speaker
So yes, both fun and then also like calming and just delightful linguistic things like wordplay. I love wordplay games and like doing my wordle every day and playing around with language and then symbolic. So like doing artistic things like I love tarot readings. I love drawing like random items and stuff. So I really, those are the things I gravitate towards when I have fun.
00:09:38
Speaker
And there are a lot of things that I think are just super fun that I don't do very often. So it's been helpful for me to remember that fun is a thing that exists. Yeah, it's good to intentionally sit down and think about what do I actually have fun doing and actually take an inventory of what do I find fun and how can I integrate this more into my daily life.
00:10:03
Speaker
especially because there's a lot of things I don't find fun. Like on that placement, like I was like, no, no, no, no, none of those. Don't like that. Like obviously there was someone there that I resonated with, but I could just tell that the assessment was written by and based in a different realm of having fun. That wasn't what I gravitate towards. And so it's been really helpful to be like, Oh no, I think these things are super fun and I could do them every day.
00:10:32
Speaker
Yeah, I wanted to actually everything that we've said is like, aligned so well with this book that I read called The Power of Fun, which if anybody thinks that they want to integrate more fun into their life, but they're really have like, if you have no idea,
00:10:49
Speaker
what you find fun or like what you would even, where you would even start. This is such a great book. So The Power of Fun by Catherine Price. And she defines true fun as in like actually having fun, not like
00:11:04
Speaker
Oh yes, this was such a fun dinner party. I had a fun time. You know, not like that kind of fun, but like actual true fun. She defines as the confluence of playfulness, connection, and flow. Whenever these three states occur at the same time, we experience true fun. I like that a lot. Playfulness, connection, and fun. Or no, flow. Flow, yeah. Playfulness, connection, and flow.
00:11:33
Speaker
I love all three of those words and I use them and think about them a lot and I love that that's embedded in her definition.
00:11:40
Speaker
Yeah well and like you think about I mean any of the things you said like swinging you are being playful you're in a state of flow literally but also like how many times have you just been like on a swing and you just like forget about the time passing you're just like yay like this is so great and usually like sometimes you're on a swing with people and like Jordan and I um when we were at a wedding not that long ago there was this swing set this playground off to the side and um
00:12:09
Speaker
At one point we just went over and we just like swang together. Swang? Swung. I should know this. That's the new word. We swang together. But it was fun. Yeah, anyway. We have a swing set right in front of our apartment that I haven't been on yet and I would like to. Yeah, I will join you. Yeah.
00:12:35
Speaker
We can record a podcast while on a swing. I'm sure that will be really great. I think that the audio would do wonderfully as it's going back and forth. Yes, I agree. I think it was two wonders. So now that we've talked about like what our baseline like what we actually enjoy doing, what is fun to us,
00:13:02
Speaker
What do you think of your art or writing as fun? No. Why not? It's such a great question because art and writing is like
00:13:23
Speaker
like their school classes, you know, like we we learned them as something like those were the fun classes but it's like it was still like oh well I have to do this English essay, and I feel like we didn't get a lot of chance to just play around with them, and
00:13:38
Speaker
have a lot of fun and that's, I've been realizing that recently. Like you can have so much fun with all different kinds of art and writing and like genres and prompts and yeah. And something I was thinking about too with this is that when I wrote my memoir in 2018, which is just unpublished my own thing, I was like in love with that project.
00:14:05
Speaker
Like I loved how it came together and it was, you know, it's pretty serious, but I had fun with playing with the structure and seeing how things fell together, like puzzle pieces and being like, oh, actually this is supposed to go there. And I had some like magical realism at some points where I was like talking to my own child self and it was fun.
00:14:31
Speaker
That sounds like such a beautiful process. Yeah, it was. It really was like falling in love and just like the exhilaration and like flow. It was really cool. And I'm actually going on a writing retreat this weekend and writing a different, very serious book about memory care and a COVID outbreak. And I'm really excited to like spend time with those characters again and write their stories in creative ways.
00:15:01
Speaker
So when you say that you don't think of art and writing as fun is that like when you're not doing it you're like no I don't consider that fun but then when you're doing it you're like oh wait no this is fun. Yeah like when I think of it I'm like oh yeah art oh yeah writing but then like the actual experience of it I'm like it's it's this like living process that's like evolving and is so interesting and
00:15:31
Speaker
creative and fun to be part of. But I don't think of that when I hear the words art and writing and when I feel like I need to do. Yeah, like we need to draw that connection. Yeah, more. Yeah. What about you? Do you think of art and writing as fun, especially since you have a business related? Yes, and I didn't used to this is a
00:15:59
Speaker
a new phenomenon of me. Ah, look at you. Yes, it is a phenomenon. Yeah, so I didn't used to think that writing or art or any of it was fun. Because I was in that like perfectionistic mindset of like, well, if I'm putting my energy towards making something, then it has to be good.
00:16:29
Speaker
And since I'm never satisfied with what I make, that means it's never good or fun. So I just didn't do it. But then as I started to make ugly art and like intentionally make things dumb and ugly, I was like, oh wait, this is, this is really fun.
00:16:47
Speaker
And so now like, I am kind of in this realm where like, especially with my book, my book has become less fun. As it's grown, like the more words I have in that thing, the more I'm like, Oh, no, this isn't fun anymore. But I think that's also just because it's new. And it's like that feeling of not like not having any idea what to do with the damn thing. So a lot of maybe feelings of like, overwhelm and uncertainty. But like,
00:17:17
Speaker
The writing itself is fun. I just...the book itself is not fun to me. But anyway, that's a tangent. So yes, I do now think that it's fun. Yeah. And I think you helped me see it as more fun too.
00:17:35
Speaker
And something I've been, this might be another tangent, but something I've been thinking about recently, when I think about what you offer to the world and some of the dementia programs that are based around the arts and my own explorations is like, there's a very traditional understanding of art and writing and that when you write a book, it's very linear and it all books are the same, you know, and
00:18:03
Speaker
like playing with form and structure and language. Like you can do so many interesting different things that aren't that traditional rigid structure. That helps me a lot. I think that's kind of what ugly art opens you up to is like, it doesn't have to look like that. You don't have to make something pretty that you spend hours and days on. You can just throw stuff around and have fun with it.
00:18:29
Speaker
Yeah, whatever you're writing literally doesn't need to make sense. And that's like the ugly writings that I've made are truly just like the most nonsensical, hilarious things that I think they're so funny, but they don't make any sense. There is no story. They're just terrible. I once made a story that was like, I had been reading
00:18:58
Speaker
Dryer's English, which is like a grammar book for editors, and well, and writers, if you're like looking to improve your writing, but it's all very much like
00:19:08
Speaker
what words to use and not use to like improve your writing, how to like make it more direct and that kind of stuff. So as I was reading that, there's like, he has this list of words that like avoid like really very rather, you know, all of these words that like your writing will be stronger without those filler words. And so I was like, well, it'd be kind of fun to just write a story with all of those words, like every other word.
00:19:33
Speaker
And so I just I just made it and it ended up actually giving This character that I was writing a very like hilarious voice like I'd really rather not You know, I'm so very I'm so very sorry like it just ended up being kind of like a polite timid person with all of this and so it's kind of fun like if you actually play
Connection and Creativity
00:19:57
Speaker
with the rules of what you quote, should or shouldn't do, then you actually end up creating these really silly characters and learn how to use that to your advantage. But you wouldn't know that if you didn't let go of the shoulds. You want to know a fun fact about what you just said? Yes. One of the things I remember from the Tesla program, which you also took, so you probably know this, but the more words you say, the more polite you're being.
00:20:27
Speaker
So it's a fascinating social element of language that if your boss asks you if you're going to do something, you'll be like, yes, I think I should be able to do that. And if your partner asks you if you're going to do something, you'll be like, yeah. Yes, that's not true. Yeah, it's super fascinating because once you know it, you'll start to realize it.
00:20:55
Speaker
when you text one person you use a lot more words and then someone else you're like sure whatever.
00:21:02
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And I know, like, now that I'm thinking about all of those times that I've slightly tweaked emails, so they sound polite, like, yep, I was just adding more words. That's so true. And that's something that like, when you know that you can build that into your characters. And, you know, like you said, have a character who's very like, oh, I'd rather not. I'm very, you know, I'm very busy. And I'd rather do this instead. And, you know, have fun with that.
00:21:30
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I was going to say also along the lines of like Katherine Price's definition of true fun, what I found about creativity is like I have the most fun when I'm doing it with somebody. So having that element of connection slipped in makes creativity so much more fun.
00:21:52
Speaker
Like when I'm writing a short story with Jordan, or I'm writing poems with you, or I'm making ugly art with people, it might come as you art event. It's so much more fun when there are other people enjoying that process with you. Yeah. Well, I feel like we have this idea that art and writing is like an individual hobby that you do for yourself.
00:22:21
Speaker
and you make stuff and then you just, you're either gonna sell it or you're gonna just keep it somewhere. And like, it is a relational process. Like it's art and writing are made to be shared and can be shared in any number of ways with any number of people. And that's like a core element of the process. Yes, absolutely. Especially when you're able to, like when you share your art with somebody,
00:22:48
Speaker
And even if it's like bad, if you're just like, look at how funny this thing looks, and then you can share in that moment of laughter, it's just like, it completes the process for me. Thinking back on my memoir writing program, I think that was part of the healing nature of writing the memoir is that we had
00:23:12
Speaker
beta readers, and seeing their comments of like, Oh, I love how you said this, or like, Oh, wow, I didn't see that coming. And, you know, I, I surprised myself in my writing, you know, I have a line, or ended chapter in a way I wasn't expecting. And it is so much different when you share that with someone and get to hear their response to it and see that they also are like, Oh, interesting.
00:23:38
Speaker
Yeah, which I think that's such a good thing to remember because that's the most vulnerable part of writing and that's the step that we're most likely to skip. Yeah, when I before I started the program, I thought that beta readers were that it I mean, all of us were scared to do it. And, you know, we thought it would be criticism and very vulnerable and scary that you'd be kind of ripped apart. And
00:24:02
Speaker
my experience was nothing but having them be really engaged with it and wanting to know more. Most of the time it wasn't a critique. It was like, tell me more about this, or I'm not clear about that. So tell me, I want to know more. What does your dad look like? That kind of interaction, we don't really do a lot of that. And it's a really cool kind of relationship to have those creative back and forths. Yeah, agreed.
00:24:29
Speaker
We kind of covered this already, but what kinds of fun do you gravitate towards? Because you were talking about the absurdity and explorations, and I was talking about
00:24:46
Speaker
kinetic, symbolic, and linguistic. So I guess I'm reminding myself of that as we ask this next question, which is how can you build those kinds of fun things that you gravitate towards into your creative expression?
Incorporating Fun into Creativity
00:25:02
Speaker
Yes. And I think I do so much of that with ugly art. Like that's what I lean into is the absurd.
00:25:08
Speaker
And like silliness and I mean exploration to a certain point because I'm like, what else can I do? What else can I make? What else? And actually now I'm singing. Oh, my God. Now I'm going to have the song stuck in my head. If anybody has not seen in Kanto yet, you need to watch in Kanto just for this one song.
00:25:31
Speaker
that one of the sisters sings called What Else Can I Do? It is the anthem of your practice. It truly is. I love it. Every once in a while, I will just turn that song on and like sing around my room and start crying because that song just makes me cry every time. But yeah, like, what else can I make? What else? What other ugly stories can I come up with? It's all very much in the spirit of exploration and absurdity.
00:26:02
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. You've very naturally built it in. And actually it's good that we're talking about this though because I do get to this place where part of me wants to be a more serious writer or a more serious artist, but that's not what I enjoy doing. That's not what ends up filling me up or making me feel like...
00:26:26
Speaker
alive or activated or enthusiastic. I don't end up feeling as enthusiastic about those things. What I do feel enthusiastic about is when things are weird.
00:26:39
Speaker
So this is a good reminder that I need to pursue what I truly find fun instead of constantly being like, but I need to be this other kind of artist because I don't. And I think there's a lot of serious writers and artists who also do weird, absurd things. And we perceive them as being acceptable because they have a certain amount of like status or clout. But it's like at some point they were also just someone in their room being like, I'm going to write this weird thing.
00:27:07
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. What about you? How can you build kinetics? Is that the right word, kinetics? Sure. Yeah, kinetics, symbolism, and linguistic. And linguistic. Yeah. How do you build that into your creative expression? Yeah, I think the kinesthetic is a bit more of like a thing I would do outside of my creative expression for the most part, but also like I love like finger painting and stuff. So I guess I shouldn't count it out.
00:27:36
Speaker
I do like stuff that I'm using my body to make, so that'd be fun to explore more. But especially symbolism and linguistic, like playing with language. I want to do more with word prompts and stuff and write a chapter of my book, but write it based off of a different perspective.
00:27:56
Speaker
you know, using certain symbolism that maybe I wouldn't have if I weren't thinking about it. Yeah. There's just, there's so much that can be so playful about it that I'm excited now, especially going into this writing retreat, that I'm not just going to sit down and write this like beginning to end story. That's very linear. And I mean, it's going to be linear, but I was picturing it being really traditional and I think it will be a little bit different or at least has a little more life to it.
00:28:26
Speaker
I love that. And also, so for listeners, we have been talking about going roller skating, which has been put on hold because my knees are old. But whenever I've looked at roller skating and tried it, I'm always wanting to do the roller dances. That sounds so much fun, and I think that could fit really well into your kinesthetic
00:28:55
Speaker
because it's like the sound and feel of the roles and then like you're also dancing and like having that kind of creative expression that way. Yeah, yeah, I think that that's something I'm gonna find to be really exhilarating and that I have felt was exhilarating when I did it when I was younger and I haven't come back to it and I know it's gonna feel like coming home. It's gonna be so fun. Yeah, it will be. I had my first physical therapy appointment this morning and it went well and
00:29:24
Speaker
We think that my knees are salvageable. I will think of your physical therapy as a pre-skating recovery program.
00:29:41
Speaker
can we bring more fun into our creative lives instead of treating it like an extra to-do item while still pursuing those big projects like writing a book?
Transforming Tasks into Fun Experiences
00:29:52
Speaker
Other big projects that I can't think about the top of my head. Yeah. The reason I think it's worth asking is because I think this question is really grounded in the day-to-day details of a project that it's not just like, oh, how can I have more fun in general? But specifically,
00:30:12
Speaker
you know, how can I take a writing session and make it fun? How can I approach it in a way that's like I'm, you know, I play a song to pump me up or like get into the right mindset or I, you know, I do things, you know, maybe I go for a walk to think about it first and like do an exploratory walk or just things that
00:30:35
Speaker
can get you into Headspace for a kind of fun session. And seeing them as fun sessions, like, oh, I got to go do this thing now. I get to do it. I don't have to do it.
00:30:44
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. And I loved Marie Bowler is this new, well, I just knew to me this creator that I just started following. And one of her most recent videos was like, I don't want it to be a to-do list. That's homework energy. And I want like witchy creative energy. So like,
00:31:10
Speaker
thinking of your writing your book as scheduling a massage on your calendar instead of like scheduling, sit down, like sit down time to write, here we go. But like, no, this is my like exciting adventure time. Like this is the time when I get to explore and be silly and write terrible things in the pursuit of writing my book.
00:31:37
Speaker
this is kind of a tangent but when you said like witchy energy I got this feeling that like when I write my book this weekend and however long it takes me that like I feel like the people I'm writing about will be there with me in some ways and that I get to spend time with them again and ideally kind of channel
00:32:03
Speaker
a story that they would want told about them. And of course it's going to be, you know, anonymous and confidential. I'm going to change things so that it's not bringing confidentiality, but it was just that interesting idea. Like that's something I felt a lot more earlier on in my practice is like, I feel the presence of the elders and their spirits, especially the ones who have died. And that might not fit necessarily into like our traditional idea of fun, but like, I do think it's really like fun to meet people on the other side, like to, to see my friends again.
00:32:33
Speaker
Yeah, it can be like your seance sessions. Yeah. Yeah, they are. Because I mean, the whole book, it's all grounded in these relationships I had with them and the people that they were and the experiences they had. And like, it's not like, I mean, it's the whole thing. The entire book is just all time with my friends. And yeah, I can kind of have these seances with them where I'm writing the book with them in some ways. Yes, I love it.
00:33:02
Speaker
It's awesome. That's so good. More witchiness in writing. Yes, and it, I mean it's such a witchy task, not task. What's the word I'm looking for? Act. Act, yes. I've been forgetting words all day, not that that's any different than any other day, but yes, it's a
00:33:32
Speaker
God, it's a witchy action anyway, of like, summoning these characters into life and like, concocting things out of nothing, conjuring. I think we really forget about that, that writing or any form of art, we are going from nothing to something and we're creating it and we're directing it and actually in my tarot deck, I made my own tarot deck and my the card for the magician I called the artist.
00:34:01
Speaker
Because of that, because to me it's the same. The magician and the artist are the same. They both have their tools that they use to manifest and bring things forth and create them. And it is. It's absolute magic. It is. That's a good interesting turn that feels really fun. It is fun. I love it. I haven't been saying anything but I have this wide smile on my face. I just love it.
00:34:28
Speaker
Yeah, I think seeing writing as magic is probably the most fun I can have with it. And it's something I've used before. I did tarot readings for my memoir writing, and I would do like rituals, I'd light candles, and I had like a magic wand and stuff. I guess I have to pack a few things more for my writing retreat this weekend. Yeah, bring some candles, bring some lavender or some other like, good smelly herbs and
00:34:56
Speaker
Yeah. Adorn your space. Oh, that sounds like that just sounds so nice. I'm like, ah, yeah, that sounds like awesome. That sounds good. I was thinking, I liked your idea of going on a walk like before a writing session. And actually, I was also thinking of like, incorporating a walk into the writing session, like, bring a notebook and just like,
00:35:20
Speaker
examine the world around you and like practice describing things while you're on this walk? Like what are different ways you can describe the leaves or the people walking by or like the sounds around you? Like can you incorporate that exploration into the writing process? That reminded me of something I was thinking about with this topic. I remember riding my bike to the city park when I was in middle school with my
00:35:51
Speaker
sketchbook and trying to draw the swing set. And I was thinking how fun it would have been to be like, I'm going to draw how the sky or how the air feels against my skin. Or I'm going to draw what children's laughter sounds like. All these abstracts of experiencing the world and translating it into a page that's not that rigid realism of this has to look like a real swing set that I could just take a picture of.
00:36:21
Speaker
Yeah, it can be whatever you want it to be. It can make it can look like absolutely nothing, but it can like mean something to you. Yeah. And that's the kind of stuff that ends up in museums and makes people feel things because they're like, Oh yes, there is something behind this. Yeah, absolutely. We should both go for some walks. I agree. I think that sounds like a lovely idea. Yeah. Well,
00:36:46
Speaker
Speaking of making ugly things, which we've been talking about this entire thing, did you make anything ugly
Collaborative Creativity through Poetry
00:36:52
Speaker
this week? And I already know the answer. Yes, I made an ugly thing, multiple ugly things with you. We wrote poems.
00:37:02
Speaker
Do you want to tell the people about it, and then do you want me to read one of them? Sure, yeah. So you had this idea, because you did this with your group at Western. What was your group called again? It's called Tag Team. I think it's still in existence, transgender and gender nonconforming. And it's basically just like a social group for
00:37:27
Speaker
gender non-conforming people to be together and it was like a really sweet group of people and we did this just when we were hanging out at one point. Did you know who came up with us? I believe it's a thing like I think oh yeah I think there's a name for it like it's like a writing kind of exercise that I don't know where it came from but yeah I forget I wish I could remember what it was.
00:37:50
Speaker
It was something weird. Well anyway, what we did was each person writes a line of a poem and then you hand it to the next person. But then as you're going around, whoever's writing only sees the most recent line of poetry and you don't see the rest of the poem. So then you just have to write your next line based off of the only line that you can see.
00:38:19
Speaker
So, because there were only two of us, we had to improvise because, I mean, we would have known what came before. So, we wrote four different pages so that we'd have more time in between each one to kind of forget what happened earlier, which worked really well. There were only a few times that I was like, oh, I know which one this is, but usually I had no idea.
00:38:43
Speaker
When I, there were a lot where I was like, Oh, I know it's this one. And then when we read them later, I was like, Oh, that was not the one I thought it was. And it showed because they made no sense. Yeah, I was like, we're talking about princesses, obviously. And then I was like, No, it's like dolphins or something.
00:39:02
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm excited. I don't know which one you're gonna read. I'm trying not to laugh too hard that I mess up the audio. I'm trying to figure out which one should be read because there are some that shouldn't be. There's one that ended up being really sad. So don't read that. That's what I'm trying to figure out because I not super obvious.
00:39:26
Speaker
Oh yeah, I don't like this one either. There's two of them that were like a little sad. I should just like randomly read one that would be more ugly of me. Okay, so this is our masterpiece so far.
00:39:44
Speaker
I'm afraid of things with eight legs and no legs. What is their life? These creatures so strange. I wonder if I am secretly one of them. So I stare in the mirror and get too close. The glass fogs up and I write, I love you. Dewy drops slide down, erasing the you. I wonder what else it will erase. My memories, my dreams, my pain.
00:40:07
Speaker
I can't remember what I imagined, felt, or even wanted, so I take a deep breath and just am. In, out, like the ocean's steady, strong waves, sweep me away, like a dancing broom in a kid's movie. I'll sweep you off your feet and twirl you around like a princess, then launch you into the great beyond. I hope you brought a parachute to carry you to safety, like a hunky fireman. Spray me down, daddy.
00:40:33
Speaker
I had to mute myself because I was laughing the whole time. I was like, did you disappear? Did it like... Oh my god. Yeah, so every single line of that we just wrote it based off of the last one. And it's so funny looking back at them, like they're just so...
00:40:58
Speaker
They're so funny. We should do more ugly things together. I agree. That was a really great time. Yeah, it was good. It was fun. We had fun. I thought about it later. That was when you have a friend over and you just play and do something just silly and random and just enjoy it. Yes. And how often do we do that with our friends? I swear most of the time when I meet up with friends, we're catching up because it's been so long since we've seen each other.
00:41:27
Speaker
Or we're like, eating or watching a show. But like, it's not very often that we like actually play. Yeah, it's like not a thing. Which is also speaks to be what we talk about in my program, the hyper cognitive nature of our, our society, that like, all of our relationships are built on these like very verbal
00:41:52
Speaker
interactions where it's like I tell you this and then you tell me that and then we have this very like rational back and forth and there's so many other ways of relating to people like I want to I want to try doing things where it's like we we hang out and don't say anything like we use like gestures or you know like there's so many interesting and it's kind of like theater games you know but like what would it be like to like have pizza and
00:42:20
Speaker
make art and not say a word. Yeah, well, and that's actually like, those are some of the most fun times that I have with Jordan is when we just like, one of us just starts being really strange and the other person
00:42:34
Speaker
kind of like yes ands them and like joins in on the fun and like okay yes I can see that we are no longer speaking and we are only using our facial expressions to convey meaning like great here we go. And then seeing like what can be communicated. Yeah. It's so interesting. And it inevitably turns into like who can make the weirdest face.
00:42:58
Speaker
This is reminding me, do you remember when you tried to teach me French and I tried to teach you Spanish without either of us speaking English? I vaguely remember that. And I do remember it not going well. No, he had so much fun. Like you'd be like, I'd like pick up an apple and I'd be like, manzana, manzana. What if you had French like palm or something?
00:43:27
Speaker
Yeah, poem. Yeah. You see, I remember I learned. You did learn. That's so funny. Yeah. And then the other thing I remember doing in that same like basement kitchen is Yumi and Colin, just like jamming out to Mumford and Sons with pots and pans and like wooden. Yeah. Oh, yeah. 100%. Something about that basement. We did some weird stuff. That was very fun. Yeah.
00:43:56
Speaker
We were, it was, that was the most like silly I've been since being an adult, which of course is because we weren't adults yet. Right. Yeah. But that's the best is just being silly. And I don't think enough adults are silly. No. And I think it's stupid. I was going to use a more official word or something, but it is, it's stupid. We have, we have whatever we want with them. We're all just like,
00:44:26
Speaker
being rational. No one likes rationality. Nope. It's no fun. No. Well, do you have anything you want to plug or things? Yeah, so speaking of not
00:44:45
Speaker
always being rational. I love the time I spend with people living with dementia because it is you do like get to know people on a side of life that's not so verbal and rational. And we've been talking about that a lot in my program. And I'm starting to prepare to launch the second round of it. So it's called from panic to power. And it's to transform our relationship to dementia from sheer panic to more power, peace and preparation.
00:45:13
Speaker
And we've just had the first session of the first round and it's been really beautiful hearing people talk about how they're starting to think differently about dementia and the kind of interactions we can have with people and how we can improvise with them and play and make art that helps them communicate things they couldn't in language. And, um, yeah, I'd love to explore that with more people. So.
00:45:38
Speaker
My website is makinghappymemories.com and it will be available on there and you can email me to get on the waiting list. Cool. I'm really excited to hear what participants have to say about your program as it ends. I'm really excited. It's been really cool starting to hear even just after this first session, you know, getting to hear some of the experiences they've had and reflections and how it's clicking for them. Like it's really clicking there.
00:46:07
Speaker
their experience is shifting in a way that really opens a lot of, what were the words? Playfulness, connection, and flow. Yeah, I've been hearing a lot more experiences of that. Cool. That's so great.
00:46:21
Speaker
Yeah, what about you? So I am always looking for editing work. So if you have a book and especially if you have a book that's been like sitting on your on your computer and you're like, I have a first draft or a second draft and I just I don't know what to do with it right now.
00:46:39
Speaker
I do manuscript evaluations so I can read through and kind of do what a beta reader does of like tell you what's working, what could use some more teasing out, and then also give you advice on like what next steps could be for you, whether you do need like a full developmental edit or maybe like you just need a few tweaks and then you're ready for a copy edit, but I can just kind of give you my feedback
00:47:03
Speaker
And then I also have my perfectionism workshop available to kind of explore some of the things we were talking about of like letting go of that idea that your work has to be perfect and continuing to create and manage that perfectionism as you go. And you can find both of those on my website, scribeandsunshine.com or follow me on Instagram for more. Yay! Yay! Cool. This was fantastic and I love talking about fun with you.
00:47:33
Speaker
Yeah, I love talking about fun and having fun with you. Yes, me too. Okay, keep it ugly everybody. Keep it ugly. I was holding my face weird as I said that. I wish the people could see it.
00:47:50
Speaker
The Ugly podcast is created by Emerson Lee of Happy Memories Elder Support and Lauren Alexander of Scribe and Sunshine. It is produced by us and directed by absolutely no one. If you like the podcast, be sure to rate and leave a review on your preferred platform and share with the creatives and entrepreneurs in your life. Keep it ugly, everybody.