Transcript
Speaker: Oh, a spicy question.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: Because the writing is sort of everything, right?
Speaker: You can fix plot holes.
Speaker: So some readers love that and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this.
Speaker: So it's kind of a gamble.
Speaker: Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast.
Speaker: On today's episode, I am joined by author, journalist and literary agent, Christina Perez.
Speaker: Hello, thank you for having me.
Speaker: Nice to be here.
Speaker: Yeah, no, it's great to have you.
Speaker: After doing a little bit of research on you, I was sort of thinking, my goodness, where do I begin with this?
Speaker: But I think the best place, because you do so much, but the best place to start, I think, is probably with your writing.
Speaker: And I want to ask, which came first for you?
Speaker: Was it the journalism or was it the fiction writing?
Speaker: It was definitely journalism.
Speaker: I was working as a journalist when I sort of first started to actually take writing fiction seriously, I guess you could say.
Speaker: Of course, I did some, you know, terrible poetry in high school that will never see the light of day.
Speaker: It sounds mostly like sort of Indigo Girl song lyrics, but not as good.
Speaker: And and then, you know, a little bit of playing with
Speaker: short stories, but I never was very serious about it.
Speaker: And as I was sort of turning 30, it was always one of my bucket list kind of things to do.
Speaker: And I was like, well, I guess, you know, time is now.
Speaker: So I started working on, you know, my first novel, which again, we'll never see the light of day and taking writing classes online because I was living out in Asia at the time.
Speaker: But I took a
Speaker: that I don't know if it still exists called Media Bistro in New York, which was super useful.
Speaker: And I made a lot of connections in the industry that way as well.
Speaker: A lot of my fellow participants in these classes have gone on to have amazing careers as authors.
Speaker: So that was kind of how I, I segued into fiction while I was working, you know, my day job as a journalist out in Asia.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So did you find it like a very different style of writing?
Speaker: Was it quite kind of tricky for you to go from like journalism brain to full fiction creative brain?
Speaker: I mean, I had also been an academic because I'm a super nerd.
Speaker: So I had written a PhD thesis, so I knew that I could complete something of 90,000 words, but of course it's a very different structure.
Speaker: And I really had to learn about character arcs and story arcs and how they intersect and like what the right beats are.
Speaker: It's, you know, it is a very different kind of thing that you need to keep in your head when you're writing a novel.
Speaker: And it's also emotion driven as opposed to sort of fact or theory driven.
Speaker: So I would say I had a little bit of a head start in my sort of background in nonfiction writing, but it is definitely a separate skill.
Speaker: Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker: I wonder if, um, so you've got sort of half a dozen published novels now, are you still doing any journalism on the side or are you, are you just fully sort of in the fiction world now?
Speaker: I haven't done any journalism, uh, for quite a while now, um, sort of since moving back to the UK, um, from Asia, actually.
Speaker: Uh, I mean, I've dabbled a bit, you know, writing pieces, uh, in, you know, in,
Speaker: a concert with promoting my different books for some online outlets, essays here and there.
Speaker: But I haven't really been a proper jobbing journalist now for probably about a decade.
Speaker: But I do still have some nonfiction projects in the back of my mind to do at some point.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah, no, that was going to be what I was going to ask.
Speaker: I was wondering, like, now that you've kind of very much embraced and moved into the fiction sector, it's cool to know that you are still doing nonfiction and you're still interested in doing that kind of thing.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: I mean, I love nonfiction.
Speaker: I read a lot of it for pleasure.
Speaker: And as an agent, I represent some really excellent nonfiction writers, journalists and academics.
Speaker: So I'm still, you know, I have my hand in in that cookie jar as well.
Speaker: And I really enjoy helping my authors to craft their nonfiction proposals because there you know, there are certain things that are similar.
Speaker: I mean, you have to have like a chapter by chapter.
Speaker: outline and you do have to have sort of an overview which is essentially the sort of query style pitch that you might use for fiction and you know it has to be fluid obviously memoir I would say is more like writing a novel where you are the character or you know perhaps the people you're writing about are the characters and you still have to take them on that similar journey that the reader is going to respond to as they would to a completely fictional character and then you know serious non-fiction or history is
Speaker: It's not quite the same, but at the same time, you know, it's all about people at the end of the day.
Speaker: We like stories about people and you have to write them in a way that readers are going to engage and respond and want to keep turning that page, whether it's a biography of a past president or it's a fantasy novel.
Speaker: So true.
Speaker: You can't just write all the facts down on a piece of paper, all the data, and expect people to be compelled by it.
Speaker: Some people will be, but I think most people would probably be put off by just a wall of numbers and dates and facts and figures.
Speaker: Yeah, you have to tell a persuasive story.
Speaker: If you have a particular academic argument that you want to get across,
Speaker: There needs to be a little bit of razzle dazzle and charisma in that.
Speaker: Yeah, true, true, true.
Speaker: Am I right in thinking, so you're a literary agent now, am I right in thinking that, so you did journalism and then journalism sort of at the same time you were becoming an author and doing that kind of stuff and then
Speaker: You'd already published a couple of books.
Speaker: Were you two books out of the Sweet Black Waves trilogy down by the time that you started as a literary agent?
Speaker: I was.
Speaker: Wow, you have looked at my timeline carefully.
Speaker: Yes, so I had already published a couple of young adult novels when I decided to become an agent.
Speaker: And
Speaker: I suppose it's not that an unusual path these days.
Speaker: There are quite a few agent friends of mine who also write, but it's probably not what people expect, perhaps.
Speaker: And I just really loved all of the business aspects of the publishing world.
Speaker: And as the author, you have a certain perspective on that.
Speaker: And I was intrigued and I wanted to sort of know more.
Speaker: And then as the agent, you really get to get involved with all aspects of the publishing world on behalf of your clients, from foreign rights to sales and distribution to marketing and promotion.
Speaker: And you really have to have a very global view of how all of the tentacles of the publishing hydra work together in order to best serve your clients.
Speaker: Was it, because there is a lot to it, and when you started it was at Xeno Literary, from being an author and having kind of been through the sort of different aspects of publishing as an author, was it kind of surprising to you when you started working at Xeno that all of these kind of other things that kind of branched off how kind of big the agent role is?
Speaker: I think that I had a pretty good idea of what it would encompass because I had, of course, been represented myself by agents for about a decade by that point.
Speaker: But getting into the nitty gritty of the royalty statements and the different points of sale and different aspects of book buyers and the sell-in,
Speaker: And all of that stuff, which I'd had a vague idea of as an author, I really had to sort of come to grips with and understand, you know, in the dollars and cents terms and the units being moved, how that would affect my clients and their books and the longevity of their careers.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Cause obviously you can always hear about, you'll hear about those kinds of things as an, as an author, but there's no reason for you really to be getting into the weeds with that kind of stuff.
Speaker: No, and it's perhaps not healthy to obsess too much about details that you can't control.
Speaker: I always try to suggest mindfulness apps to my debut authors.
Speaker: Because you really have to live in the present and celebrate each victory and not get too caught up on the things that you really just don't have any ability to control as an author.
Speaker: While it may be very tempting to do so, it's usually not the best for your mental health.
Speaker: Yes, 100% I agree with that.
Speaker: And were you with Xeno for, was it three years about you were with Xeno?
Speaker: Yeah, about three, three and a half years, something like that.
Speaker: and have now set up your own literary agency.
Speaker: What made you want to do that, like strike out on your own?
Speaker: I think that, you know, I'm a woman in my 40s.
Speaker: And so there was, again, a certain sense of sort of the time is now, if I'm going to start my own business, I need to, you know, try and do it now.
Speaker: So if I fail, I can go and do something else.
Speaker: Um, and, and also that, you know, I, I just wanted to build, um, you know, my own agency and do all the different kinds of things that I might want to do, which, you know, you just can't do if you work for other companies, right?
Speaker: That's why a lot of people start their own businesses.
Speaker: Um, and I also, as a freelance journalist, it was a bit like being your own agency because you were the one who were making the connections with the editors.
Speaker: You were the one pitching, you were
Speaker: Of course, also the product in that sense, because you were the one writing and then you were the one chasing payment.
Speaker: And I, you know, I really kind of used to that kind of autonomy.
Speaker: I'm an only child.
Speaker: So I think that being my own business owner works really well for me.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: And it's not uncommon.
Speaker: A lot of agents do after, you know, they feel like they've got enough experience at a larger agency, move out and set up their own.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, it's an apprenticeship kind of industry.
Speaker: So I learned a whole lot in my years at Xeno and very grateful for them.
Speaker: And then it's a bit like see one, do one, teach one.
Speaker: I think then you have to just take the plunge and see if you can do it on your own.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And while setting up your own agency, and this is crazy to me because you, you seem like you must be the busiest person in the world.
Speaker: I know how all encompassing being a literary agent is like it's, it's more than just a take book sends to publisher kind of thing.
Speaker: But, uh, you are also, you also have a book, a new book coming out with little Brown next year, the many lies of Veronica Hawkins.
Speaker: I have to ask, where do you find the time?
Speaker: I don't sleep a lot.
Speaker: That's it.
Speaker: That's where I'm going.
Speaker: I'm sleeping.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Being a vampire helps.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's, it's, uh, I'm really excited about it.
Speaker: It's my sort of book club thriller is, is my pitch would be sort of big little lies meets Taylor Jenkins read in Hong Kong.
Speaker: It's a based loosely, or at least drawn from the world that I inhabited, uh, as an expat journalist out in Asia for about a decade.
Speaker: It's a sort of a dark satire.
Speaker: It's rich people behaving badly.
Speaker: So it's quite fun.
Speaker: Oh, that sounds great.
Speaker: I feel like you hit me with all the buzzwords that I wanted to hear when you were describing that.
Speaker: That's great.
Speaker: And that was my next question.
Speaker: So you have this book coming out.
Speaker: You are a literary agent.
Speaker: You said that you have had a couple of agents in the past representing you and your writing.
Speaker: Do you have an agent now?
Speaker: Actually, no, I decided to do it for myself.
Speaker: And so far, that's been working out pretty well.
Speaker: You know, I could always change my mind in the future.
Speaker: Like there are lots of wonderful agents out there who can do great things for people's careers.
Speaker: But for the moment, I'm just sort of taking it as it comes and enjoying, you know, guiding my own career.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's because I've, I've spoken to a few other agents who also are authors and they, they often opt into having a separate agent, um, I guess just to sort of compartmentalize different parts of their life.
Speaker: I imagine.
Speaker: Yeah, I think that that works for some people.
Speaker: Um, I don't take many things personally, so I have no problem, uh, you know, being rejected by somebody one day and turning around and sending a client manuscript the next day.
Speaker: I think that in this industry, you really need to learn to have a pretty strong Teflon coating.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, yeah, I mean, so far it's worked for me and I'm enjoying it.
Speaker: And, you know, we'll see if I change my mind because I'm too busy in the future.
Speaker: That could be definitely something that I could see happening.
Speaker: But it's also kind of fun.
Speaker: I like to strategize about my clients' careers.
Speaker: I think that's one of the best parts of my job.
Speaker: I really love to work with debut authors, but also I like to work with mid-career authors and
Speaker: who are maybe making a shift either from young adult into adult or perhaps adult into middle grade and trying to reposition them and think about their different kinds of author brands.
Speaker: And often it's not just one or the other, it's about working with them so they coincide.
Speaker: And yeah, I just, I find that super intellectually challenging and fun and creative.
Speaker: So I am attempting to do that for myself as well.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Very cool.
Speaker: And you, you mentioned that you do represent fiction authors.
Speaker: I'm aware that Zeno as a, as an agency do focus on science fiction and fantasy at those, is that kind of a focus for you as well and your list and the kind of the authors that you're, you're building up?
Speaker: I mean, I definitely have science fiction.
Speaker: Well, I guess more fantasy than science fiction, although I have a very cool near future project that I can't talk about too much yet, but I'm very excited about.
Speaker: And horror as well.
Speaker: I'm a particular lover of horror, so I've ended up representing a number of horror clients.
Speaker: Um, but I would say for Paris literary and entertainment, it's really a broad church.
Speaker: And I do a little bit of everything from middle grade YA to genre fiction, uh, upmarket historical straight up commercial and then serious nonfiction.
Speaker: So I, I want our, our agency to be a kind of a generalist agency.
Speaker: Uh, and I have, uh,
Speaker: soon to be announced, somebody else who will be joining me here and another agent who will be opening up to queries too.
Speaker: So as of September, we'll have a number of people who are accepting queries at PLE and that'll be very exciting and they'll be specializing in slightly different things for me.
Speaker: Oh, amazing.
Speaker: The agency kind of was officially came into existence in February.
Speaker: Is that right?
Speaker: That's right.
Speaker: And it's just, is it just you at the moment?
Speaker: Is that, will these be some of the first hires or have you already got like a team?
Speaker: No, I have a, I have a full-time assistant, um, Isabel, who is amazing and she's my right hand woman.
Speaker: Um, and so it's been her and me and we also have a finance director, um, who does all of the bookkeeping and the royalties and all of that kind of good stuff.
Speaker: Um, and then I have somebody else, uh, who will be joining as well.
Speaker: So I think by the time this podcast comes out, we will be a four, four person strong team.
Speaker: Awesome.
Speaker: How exciting.
Speaker: It's very exciting.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Um, and let's, let's get into it.
Speaker: It's always great having agents on because, um, a lot of my listeners are aspiring authors, people looking to figure out how to crack their way into the industry.
Speaker: Um, you are, am I right in thinking you're currently open to submissions?
Speaker: Yes, we all are.
Speaker: The agency is open for sure.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So as of August, 2023, open submissions.
Speaker: Something I always like to ask agents when they're on the podcast is how they approach their query letters.
Speaker: So you take all of yours through the Query Manager website.
Speaker: So anyone looking to query Christina, you can find a link on the Perez Literary website to the Query Manager page.
Speaker: And it's a cover letter, a synopsis, and for fiction, just the first chapter, which I thought was interesting.
Speaker: A lot of places ask for the first three chapters.
Speaker: Do you feel like the first chapter is all you need to get enough of a sense to know if you want the full?
Speaker: Yes, for sure.
Speaker: Usually the first couple of pages is enough.
Speaker: I'm very much a go with your gut agent and I have already a pretty full list of clients.
Speaker: So it really has to reach out and grab me by the throat and compel me to read more.
Speaker: And that elusive voice that everybody talks about and is super frustrating, I know.
Speaker: But it is that is, is it connects, does it connect with me for some random reason that has to do with my childhood that no one's ever going to understand, you know, like that is honestly, you know, why, why you love some books and not others, right?
Speaker: You go on to Goodreads and not everybody agrees.
Speaker: So, you know, that is my, do I love this voice?
Speaker: Do I want to go on a journey with this voice?
Speaker: That's,
Speaker: That's the first question for every manuscript, no matter what genre.
Speaker: And it is usually answered to me in the first couple of pages.
Speaker: Very interesting.
Speaker: So the thing I love to get into here is when you're having a session and you're like, look, okay, I'm going to go do some submissions now.
Speaker: When you go to your submission box, when you open up one of the queries, what order do you go through the component parts and what are you looking for for each of them?
Speaker: So that's the cover letter, the synopsis and the first chapter.
Speaker: So I generally look at the cover letter first and, you know, just to see, is it something that I actually represent?
Speaker: Because a lot of people send you things that you don't represent.
Speaker: And, you know, is the word count a sort of a relevant word count to the genre that they say their book is?
Speaker: Because it would surprise you.
Speaker: how often people just say they've written a 40,000 word fantasy or a 150,000 word thriller.
Speaker: And then you go, oh, actually, I don't think you know what those words mean, to quote Princess Bride.
Speaker: And so that's like a key thing is just, is this person serious?
Speaker: Have they done their homework?
Speaker: Do they know what they're pitching?
Speaker: And then is that query pitch, the sort of no more than sort of 200, 300 words appealing?
Speaker: Does it tease me?
Speaker: Does it make me want to open the pages without spoiling the story?
Speaker: That's really what I'm looking to see.
Speaker: And if it does all of those things, then I'll probably go and look at the pages first.
Speaker: And if I really like the pages, then I'll look at the synopsis.
Speaker: But I would say the full synopsis is probably less important to me because books change so much in the editing process.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: that it's really about that query pitch in the cover letter and the pages.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: That's really interesting.
Speaker: Is there anything right now, as I mentioned, August, is there any, are there any specific types of stories, settings, or characters that you're hoping to see pop up in your submissions right now?
Speaker: I think personally, I am mostly looking to build my list in the upmarket,
Speaker: book club space at the moment, or perhaps book club commercial, just because I do have a lot of people working in genre areas.
Speaker: So I think those are probably, as of August 2023, those are the queries that I'm most sort of my ears prick up when I see them in my inbox.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So sometimes it's quite, there's so many different like labels for genres and things.
Speaker: Sometimes I often lose track of what people are talking about.
Speaker: When you say, uh, upmarket book club, are we talking like thrillers and things like that?
Speaker: Um, I mean, I like, I like thrillers too, although the space is quite crowded at the moment.
Speaker: So it has to be something that's a really fresh take.
Speaker: Um, but, um,
Speaker: I guess when I say book club, I mean more like where the prod ads sing or the paper palace, that kind of thing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Now I'm on the wavelength.
Speaker: Now I know what you mean.
Speaker: Amazing.
Speaker: So if anyone listening has anything like that, anything that they think fits the bill, you can head over to the query manager and submit your work there.
Speaker: Before we get on to the final question, I would love to ask as someone who has a lot of experience across different kind of areas of writing and publishing, what advice do you have for writers, for authors who are looking to get their work in the kind of out there, get published, break into the industry at the moment?
Speaker: I mean, I guess it depends on whether you want to go the traditional route or the indie route.
Speaker: I mean, they're both totally legitimate and a lot of indie authors are more successful than traditionally pubbed authors at the moment.
Speaker: It's a very different kind of route to market.
Speaker: And I have so much sort of time and admiration for successful indie authors because they're also
Speaker: very successful business people coming to grips with all of those aspects of production and, you know, the algorithms and, you know, that's, you know, an incredibly impressive feat to pull that off.
Speaker: So I think that it really depends on what kind of path and what kind of journey you want into publishing and they're both equally valid.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: So your suggestion would be really figure out how you want to do this, you know, do some research, figure out what kind of support do you want?
Speaker: You know, do you want, uh, do you want to find an agent who will help you develop your manuscript, um, you know, sort of manage that whole submission process for you and then work with the traditional publisher.
Speaker: And then they will be the ones determining, you know, the route to market.
Speaker: It will be their sales and marketing people who are talking to the retailers and,
Speaker: creating the cover and all of those kinds of things.
Speaker: Obviously, the advantage to that is possibly you get an advance and so there's some upfront money.
Speaker: If you go the indie route, often you are fronting money yourself to pay for covers and editors and typesetting and all of that kind of thing, but you definitely have more control over the process.
Speaker: So it sort of depends on
Speaker: what you want out of the experience and, and what your goals are, I think.
Speaker: I guess in, in to simplify it a lot, it's a kind of choice of how much, how much control you want to give up versus how much you want the freedom to be able to focus on, on your kind of writing and not because self-publishing, indie publishing, you are taking on a lot of responsibility as a business person.
Speaker: For sure.
Speaker: That marketing, that role is, you know, you're having to cover all of that to think up all the strategies and things like that.
Speaker: And you also probably don't have the relationships with the foreign editors.
Speaker: So now sometimes hybrid authors will work with an agent just for, say, their foreign rights or their audio rights.
Speaker: There's a lot of different ways that you can get into publishing and you can manage different aspects of it.
Speaker: So I would say that's probably the first step is really knowing yourself and knowing what
Speaker: what you want to do.
Speaker: And if you decide to go the traditional route, then finding the agent that's right for you is probably the next most important step because
Speaker: hopefully the agent relationship will be kind of like a marriage and it will be your longest relationship in publishing.
Speaker: You know, it's, no, but it's, it's true.
Speaker: And, you know, editors, there's a lot of churn.
Speaker: People move houses.
Speaker: I can't tell you how often I lose the acquiring editors for my authors.
Speaker: So, you know, that, I think the author agent relationship is hopefully the most stable one that you will have.
Speaker: And so it's important that you, you pick the right,
Speaker: person for you.
Speaker: Um, and it might not be the agent that has done a zillion seven figure deals.
Speaker: You know, it might be the agent who is a newer agent, but has a real passion and really gets you and gets your voice and has a vision for your career.
Speaker: Uh, I mean, ultimately it is like dating.
Speaker: It is so personal.
Speaker: The chemistry is so important.
Speaker: Um, and you know, having, having the wrong agent for you is worse than having no agent.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I think that's, that's great advice across any, any kind of, however you want to do it.
Speaker: You know, you, I think the main thing is you need to look ahead, plan and really kind of think about what, what choices you make and what, what leads you down those choices.
Speaker: And that brings us to the final question, which as always is Christina, if you were stranded on a desert Island with a single book, which book would it be?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I, I've been thinking about this and I think I have to go with, um, Alana, the first adventure by Tamara Pierce, uh,
Speaker: which if you don't know it, it's a fantasy, a children's fantasy novel from the early, late 80s, early 90s.
Speaker: And it was the first book that I read and was so absorbed in the story that I forgot how much I hated reading because I had a very hard time.
Speaker: No, it's true.
Speaker: I had a very hard time learning how to read.
Speaker: I had to get a special tutor.
Speaker: And so for years, I really disliked reading.
Speaker: I was not a reader at all.
Speaker: And then my lower school librarian put this book in my hands and said, just try it.
Speaker: And I loved it.
Speaker: And I lost myself in Alana, who is a princess who wants to be a knight, but she lives in a kingdom where women become sort of magicians and men become knights.
Speaker: And she has a twin brother, so they switch places.
Speaker: And it, you know, it really just sort of captured my imagination.
Speaker: And it's definitely the book that made me a reader.
Speaker: So I guess I would have to go with that as it will hopefully continue to inspire me if I am stuck on a desert island.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: That's amazing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, it's, I think we all have that book, which, uh, I think for me, at least I can pinpoint, you can pinpoint the exact book where you're like, oh, this was when I was like, oh no, wait, reading is great.
Speaker: And I really like this thing and I want to keep doing it.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: A great, a great choice, a great addition to the, to the desert island library.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, thank you so much, Christina, for coming on the podcast and telling us all about everything that you're doing, all the writing, your kind of journey to where you are now, being a literary agent, starting your own agency.
Speaker: It all sounds very exciting.
Speaker: Looking forward to seeing how the agency grows, looking forward to seeing who the new people are who are coming in.
Speaker: It's been amazing chatting with you.
Speaker: Thanks.
Speaker: Yeah, no, thank you so much for letting me come and witter on.
Speaker: I very much look forward to seeing queries from your listeners.
Speaker: And I should also mention that I'm just about to launch a sub stack in the next couple of months that will have lots of writing advice and interviews.
Speaker: So keep your eyes peeled for that.
Speaker: There will be a link soon on the parisliterary.com website.
Speaker: And if you want to keep up with what Christina is doing until then, you can follow her author profiles on social media at KK Perez books, or you can find the agency profiles on Twitter, AKA X, uh, at Perez underscore literary, uh, or an Instagram at Perez literary to make sure you don't miss episode of this podcast to follow along on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, and
Speaker: and X. You can support the show on Patreon.
Speaker: And for more bookish chat, check out my other podcast, The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes.
Speaker: Thanks again to Christina.
Speaker: And thanks to everyone listening.
Speaker: We'll catch you on the next episode.
