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090 - Setting the Example vs Leading by Example w/ JL Reppert
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JL Reppert, Head Men's Lacrosse Coach at Holy Cross and Marine Corps veteran, joins Tex to explore the leadership principles that shape championship programs and transformational coaching.
JL breaks down the critical distinction between "setting the example" versus "leading by example"—and why one actually gets people to follow while the other leaves you walking alone.
The conversation dives deep into practical leadership challenges every coach faces: being respected versus being liked, treating people fairly without treating them equally, and shifting from activity to achievement in player development.
JL challenges the "lax bro" stereotype while offering a research-backed approach to social-emotional learning through athletics. Whether you're coaching youth sports or leading at the collegiate level, this episode delivers actionable insights on moral authority, accountability, and creating team culture that transcends the game.
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#LeadershipDevelopment #CoachingPhilosophy #LacrosseCoaching #TeamCulture #MilitaryLeadership #StudentAthletes #SportsLeadership #CollegeCoaching #TransformationalCoaching #CharacterDevelopment #NavyLacrosse #HolyCrossLacrosse #JesuitEducation #MarineCorpsLeadership #CoachEducation
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Transcript
Understanding Leadership: Leading vs. Setting Example
00:00:00
Speaker
Leading by example versus setting the example. So, you know, I think people say that a lot. Well, he leads by example. Well, leading is getting people to go places and do things that they wouldn't have done on their own. If you lead by example, that doesn't mean anybody is coming with you.
00:00:19
Speaker
Um, so the point of it is you have to set the example. You have to live and embody what you're trying to get other people to do does not require perfection, but it does require a level of a great approach and constant improvement and, and, um, you know, doing the best you can, um, and some humility and accountability when you don't. So we talk about, you have to set the example so that then you can lead.
Podcast Introduction: Texan Quilkin and JL Ruppert
00:00:48
Speaker
Welcome to the Captains and Coaches podcast. We explore the art and science of leadership through the lens of athletics and beyond. I'm your host, Texan Quilkin, and today I'm joined by JL Ruppert, head men's lacrosse coach at Holy Cross and Marine Corps veteran who's bringing military leadership principles into college athletics.
00:01:05
Speaker
From his Naval Academy playing days to the sidelines at Holy Cross,
Philosophy of Leadership: Developing 'Gentlemen Warriors'
00:01:10
Speaker
J.L. shares how he's developing young men through a philosophy rooted in Jesuit values, moral authority, and the critical distinction between being liked versus being respected.
00:01:21
Speaker
Listen and learn the difference between leading by example and setting the example, and how you build gentlemen warriors who compete fiercely between the lines while serving others everywhere.
00:01:33
Speaker
With that, let's pass it off to JL to help us raise the game. Ready, ready, and break. I got to throw some thank yous out there. So Coach Ryan Wellner, thank you for connecting us.
00:01:43
Speaker
And you're speaking next week for the Soldiers to Sidelines Virtual Summit for the lacrosse coaches. I want to shout out Soldiers to Sidelines. I've been working with them for a long time and appreciate Harrison Bernstein very much. So Coach, welcome. Thanks to ru Wellner.
00:01:59
Speaker
And let's get into it, man. Yeah, my pleasure. I'm fired up to ah to be on. I appreciate you having me on. Yes. So you have a a a history of leadership.
Journey in Leadership: Influences and Experiences
00:02:09
Speaker
And I mean, it dates back to even before your opportunity to get to the Naval Academy as a player.
00:02:16
Speaker
So start with the origin of leadership, start with the origin of lacrosse and how these two merge that you were able to find and create a great identity. Yeah, wow. Big open-ended question. I think you know i think my lacrosse story starts um back when, since I can remember, my dad was a lacrosse official for over 30 years.
00:02:40
Speaker
And so I think a lot of my journey in terms of whether it's leadership, coaching, or the sport um came from tagging along him and going to games. And that was back in the dark ages when games weren't on TV and and nobody cared about security or, frankly, kids getting hit with shots behind the goal.
00:03:00
Speaker
um So I had a ah close look at at some you know some really good games and got to to see coaches up and personal and and players. and so I think that's where ultimately I fell in love with the game and and kind of always had that knack for wanting to coach. um You know, and I think growing up, I've just always wanted to, whether it was runs or what you're doing in practice, just always tried to play hard and compete and and be the best I could be. And I think that in in some ways, yeah,
00:03:38
Speaker
you know, spurred me on to, to be a leader, um, in some of those situations early and in my career. And, you know, I think the other side of it is wanting to be the best teammate I could be and wanted to be energetic and celebrate my teammates and help them. And ultimately it was about winning and and being selfless and trying to do that. Um,
00:03:58
Speaker
yeah So I guess that's kind of where where it started to kind of happen naturally. I'm not sure if I can point to one thing, but kind of evolved and getting to watch some really good leaders and players certainly helped that.
00:04:11
Speaker
And then what was the distinction to head to a service academy versus another Division one opportunity?
Naval Academy Experience: Competition and Camaraderie
00:04:18
Speaker
Um, you know, I think a lot of it had to do with where I could play and compete at a high level.
00:04:25
Speaker
Um, you know, I think, um, there was some through the recruiting process, which is much different now than it was then. Um, You know, there were some people that maybe told me I couldn't or, hey, you're you're good, but not quite good enough, those kinds of things. So I think a level of trying to prove prove people right or wrong, i prove myself right was was important. And, um you know, I think for me, it was going to the academy um my visit, spending time with the guys, spending time around the place and just recognizing how special the place was and how tight the the guys on the team were.
00:05:04
Speaker
And it was a group that just felt right to me. And, um you know, I'm a big, I do a lot of research and due diligence in a lot of ways. And then ultimately it's about feel and I just felt like the right place and the ability to compete at a high level playing, you know, teams like Maryland and Hopkins at that time was a huge, huge attraction to me.
00:05:25
Speaker
And then I want to highlight the interesting experience as captain of Navy lacrosse. You were the only one. I don't know if Navy still does that that way, but how was that weight, that responsibility?
Captaincy and Team Leadership Responsibilities
00:05:38
Speaker
Did you have any imposter syndrome? Were you ready for it when it was bequeathed to you? um You know, I think I don't know that they still do it now. I think the team is so big that they they might have a few, um you know, but that was a longstanding tradition for a long time. And partly because when you become a captain at the academy, um you you get in.
00:06:00
Speaker
you get part of the leadership structure of the academy. So there's some certain other responsibilities there that you wouldn't necessarily have at other schools, just being a captain. Um, I guess I'd never really felt the weight of being the only guy. I never really kind of, um, felt that maybe because it's just what happened. So it wasn't like it was unusual. I i was the only captain my year and that was the first time it had ever happened. That's just the way we did things. Um, um,
00:06:30
Speaker
You know, and and I just, um I went to Navy to to compete for national championship and we had fallen short. I felt like we had underperformed. And so my sole focus was, guys, this is the goal.
00:06:45
Speaker
This is what we're driving to Just so you know, that's how I'm going to be for the year. Like that's my sole purpose. And, um you know, I feel like it's, it just was something you just jumped into and did and without maybe thinking about the gravity or the weight or wow, this is, this is unbelievable. um It was just, Hey, let's, we're trying to reach our goals. Let's do it the best we can.
00:07:10
Speaker
And then speak to us now where you get the opportunity every single season at Holy cross to now give this responsibility to your team captains. Some guys may be nervous. Some guys may feel the ready. And there's us also this group that,
00:07:25
Speaker
wasn't voted in, but feel that they were leaders of the team. Now, how do you speak to all of those different roles and their responsibility that everyone's still a leader?
00:07:36
Speaker
You just don't have happen to have a C on your chest. Yeah. and And I think, so a couple of things there. I think um one, in some ways, the more I've done this and and been around teams and and kind of studied teams, the the guys that are actually not the captains might actually be more important and impactful than the captain.
00:07:56
Speaker
um And I think it, um you know, the other side of it that I really focus on is, and I so tell this to our seniors every year, just because you walk on campus as a senior doesn't mean like you you walk through this car wash where it automatically gives you this leadership ability, right? Like there is no like special formula. It doesn't just happen because you're now a senior.
00:08:22
Speaker
um So we're very intentional with our captain certainly, but also with with each class to to help them understand and frame what their role is within the team, what that means, and how they can accomplish the things that they need to do.
00:08:38
Speaker
um and And you're right. like There are guys that that want that notoriety. They want that that letter on their chest, and they're disappointed.
00:08:49
Speaker
I think a huge part of it is getting them to understand the value that they can they can give. um and And I think in a lot of cases, guys that embrace the role – though not captain, um or probably make a good case for a captain.
00:09:07
Speaker
We've had some guys that have been very disappointed throughout my career that have just not been great about it, were upset about it. and it almost like justifies why they shouldn't be captain.
00:09:18
Speaker
Because it was more about the title than the work. um And so we try to focus on the work, not really worried about the
Fairness in Coaching: Individual Circumstances Matter
00:09:25
Speaker
titles. And the last thing I would say, Tex, is, you know, to me, this is another misnomer. And and I might say some things that are are out of popular vernacular or or whatever. But we don't need every senior to be a leader.
00:09:40
Speaker
Not every senior is a leader. um We need every guy on our team to be a great teammate and serve the role they need to serve. And in fact, seniors that aren't leaders, but are terrific teammates and follow and reinforce what our captains and leaders are doing, again, are the most impactful guys.
00:10:03
Speaker
And so to me, we talk a lot about that. Like, i don't need you to go and lead. I don't need you to just because you're a senior doesn't mean that. I just need you to be the best version of you. You can be every single day and do follow the standards and hold yourself accountable.
00:10:20
Speaker
hmm. i I love that. Focusing on on being a good teammate, I was thinking of this idea. So Jim Chiavasso, he's a strength coach in Detroit. He's got a phenomenal crew of NFL dudes.
00:10:32
Speaker
He has his teenage crew give each one of their teammates one compliment, find something during this training session to highlight and praise. And that was so difficult for that group just to begin with and get this practice of gratitude and complimenting and praising your teammates.
00:10:51
Speaker
And now they love it. They look forward to it. And any new kid that joins his his teenage group, They're all about it and they just accelerates the buy-in.
00:11:02
Speaker
So what kind of tools are you implementing to help build great teammates? Wow. First of all, you just gave me a nugget. I might incorporate that. That is awesome. um You know, I think everybody likes to talk about accountability, you know, and and and that's an important thing.
00:11:22
Speaker
i think one thing that's missed is accountability can be, letting guys know that they didn't reach the standard, but what is missed in accountability is the positive part of it too. Like yeah hold guys accountable from a positive standpoint too, and and search for ways that we can look at the positive, not just the negative. And I think,
00:11:46
Speaker
Probably one thing that i've I've maybe grown up in or developed in in my coaching is, you know again, it's I've always been yeah ah perfectionist, I guess, and and wanting things to be right and right and right. And so you're looking for ways to improve and and adjust. And what that leads to is a a kind of a focus on the negative.
00:12:09
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And so what what I've tried to do, and um it's a work in progress, I'm not there yet, um but I've tried to really focus on the positive and reinforce the positive. And and so now guys see, oh, this is how we're supposed to do it.
00:12:23
Speaker
Not always being told, no, this, don't do it that way. um And so we we try to focus a lot on that. Yeah.
00:12:34
Speaker
A lot of, I think, the work that we do is trying to, again, coach the guys on how to I don't even know, I've said lead, but, but interact with each other yeah and, and support each other. And, and, you know, I think another thing that from my perspective, right. Is, is like, it's the old, there's two, two things that, that we try to help guys to to understand as they get to our level is like, it is cool to care.
00:13:02
Speaker
And like brown nosing was a thing in kindergarten, maybe. And first grade, like brown nosing is just being successful. Yeah. Like doing what you need to do to be successful is just being successful. It's not like, you know, people say being a hard O or whatever, goody, goody, whatever that, no, that's just being a good dude and like a successful person. So we try to reinforce that a lot.
00:13:25
Speaker
And then the other side of it is
00:13:31
Speaker
when a guy is not doing, is not holding his end of the bargain is not living up to our standard.
00:13:40
Speaker
He is putting his teammates in a bad spot. And he is the jerk, quote unquote, that is being a bad teammate. Like the teammates holding him accountable or maybe coming to the coaches are not throwing him under the bus.
00:13:58
Speaker
He made decisions that weren't in line with our standard. That was his decision. He actually put you guys in a bad spot. So we try to like reframe it a little bit um in that regard. And and even then, you know I try to tell our guys too, like don't go nuclear. Don't come to me right away. Try to solve the problem yourself.
00:14:19
Speaker
Solve it with your captains. Maybe solve it with some other teammates. And then eventually, though, pretty quickly it needs to get to me so that I can help resolve the issue. So I guess that's kind of...
00:14:31
Speaker
Long winding tangent to some degree, but that's kind of how we try to Help these guys. Time out. Coach, have you ever felt like your athletes shut down, tune out, or just too cool for coaching?
00:14:43
Speaker
You want them to listen. You shake them. You know this attitude and approach that they're taking with their training or their practice in front of you is not going to lead to success on the field or off the field later in life, and you have to change it.
00:14:58
Speaker
Athletes today are operating on a different internal system and we need to course correct on how our approach is going to land with them. And that's why I wrote the new course, Why They Won't Listen, Coaching Today's Athletes.
00:15:14
Speaker
If you want to learn more, head to listen.captainsandcoaches.com for this online course. If you want the first lesson free, see how I break down and combine whiteboard lecture and practical demos, movement-based lessons,
00:15:29
Speaker
that you can bring them to your practice and your training environments. Again, head to listen.captainsandcoaches.com to learn more and get that free lesson. And now back to the show. Ready, ready and break.
Peer Leadership Challenges and Dynamics
00:15:42
Speaker
i love I love that you're highlighting that. So aim, for me when working with student athletes is highlighting these social problems and then helping them navigate the tools to figure that and solve it.
00:15:55
Speaker
Because what's waiting them at the the next level workforce, not all our guys are going pro, none of my guys are going pro. So, Now, how can they navigate and use the tools that in the confrontation and the conflict that they're, I mean, it's just part of sport naturally when we're in stressful situations to then have the social skills to just dominate when they're at the the workforce in the next level.
00:16:21
Speaker
And the, um I love this, this interaction that you're asking them to take. They're aiming to solve these problems. there's There's coach level problems, but this is a team level problem. yeah Don't bring them to me until you need it navigated.
00:16:39
Speaker
And that brown nosing, I'm glad you brought that up. i wanted I wanted to throw this question at you, but we're here now. Being too cool to try.
00:16:51
Speaker
i see it at the high school level very often, year after year Does it exist at your level or are you recruiting away from that guy if you see him during a um a recruiting, a summer session where he's he's too cool to fail?
00:17:06
Speaker
um It definitely happens at our level and we definitely try to recruit away from it is the simple answer. um
00:17:19
Speaker
I think one of the biggest challenges facing our guys and, and everybody in society these days is there's really no safety in failure because everything is captured on a phone, on social media, on a video.
00:17:40
Speaker
And so like, you know, when I was playing, we didn't have games on TV. So like, you're lucky if the VHS tape actually got recording of the whole game, right? So it's like, you know, you get stripped and you lose your stick, like, oh, well, like pick your stick up and go get the next play. Well, now like that becomes a meme.
00:18:03
Speaker
yeah And and it so that part of it makes it hard. You know, and I also think part of this is, and this is something that that I've tried to help with our guys is certainly something I try to do on a daily basis is like taking the ego out of things and trying not to wrap your identity up in the performance.
00:18:25
Speaker
And if you can separate those two, it makes it easier to fail. Because now that failure is not who you are. yeah and And I think that's where we, again, our guys struggle with that. and And part of where it happens to Tex, I think is, I try to live my life without regrets. So I don't wanna look back and go, ah i you know maybe I could have worked harder. We didn't plan here, whatever.
00:18:51
Speaker
Well, there are times when you do that and you do everything you possibly can. And you fail. i don't even know if call fail you lose. You get beat. Like we talked about that a lot with our guys. Like we don't want to lose.
00:19:07
Speaker
But if we get beat. Tip your hat to the other to the other player. yeah But for so many people, i don't you know, I think the mindset is I don't want to invest and I don't want to care that much about.
00:19:21
Speaker
because if I do, or don't, I need to know what happens at the end, right. In order to do that, because if I do invest that much and I do care, maybe it just means that I'm not quite good enough. And that's really hard to reconcile for me. It's like, let's just go, like, yeah let's just go at it and see what happens. And, um, that, that's been something we've really focused on that, you know, hopefully from a mindset standpoint just helps. It's like,
00:19:50
Speaker
it's been hard for me because I talk a lot about not worrying about the win. Um, and don't worry about what the sign at the end of the field says. And I think in some cases,
00:20:04
Speaker
the teams have heard and our guys have heard, well, he doesn't care about winning. It's like, no, that's not what I'm saying. Like I want to win more than anybody, but I want to beat you in every single battle that is required to win the war.
00:20:20
Speaker
I'm not focused on winning the war. and and And so we've we've tried to try to help the guys there in terms of that failure and and cool to care thing.
00:20:31
Speaker
Man, ah ah I love that. wrote down a few notes. the ah A lot of jumping off points here. going to stick with the ego So Pat Riley, big Pat Riley fan, I got him on wall my wall of fame here. He refers to ego as edging God out as an acronym.
00:20:49
Speaker
So do you push out the the bigger picture, the greater plan, and you are focusing on yourself. That's when ego starts to to take hold and you for you put blinders on against your teammates.
00:21:03
Speaker
So now, as you mentioned, everyone has a role. So if my ego, I didn't make team captain, my ego starts to take over. I can't be what the team needs me to be at that moment in time.
00:21:15
Speaker
And everyone has bad days. So if my leaders are down, that's a great opportunity for me to to level up in this moment. and And you know this better than anybody. Some days, some games, some guys get 15 minutes on the field.
00:21:28
Speaker
Some days they get one. We need to make that one count when they get that opportunity. And then I say this often to my guys is there is no failure. There's only feedback.
00:21:39
Speaker
Yeah. So that's a very good way to put it. Next rep up. And if if we're looking at life, there is no failure in life. Some of our greatest stumbles. Now we turn into either funny stories, not memes, funny stories to tell our guys to help accelerate their learning process and experience. So um'm um' I'm loving everything that you're saying here. And I want to connect. it's It's a term called chunking. This is a term in education. It's used in child development where I think about kids where we're learning to read. We have letter A, B and C. And eventually it's ABC, EFD.
00:22:17
Speaker
I forget the alphabet. I play defense. So, yeah, and then you chunk it up and then words become sentences, sentences become paragraphs, paragraphs become chapters. And then eventually we get novels.
00:22:28
Speaker
So teaching guys the skills at that same level We can take that approach away from victories. How I've been aiming to accomplish that is focus on four minutes at a time. High school, lacrosse, we're 12 minutes.
00:22:41
Speaker
Hey, we're gonna win this four minutes. If we didn't, okay, next four minutes is up and keep them progressing there. I'm curious on your experience at the service academy where you're learning leadership strategies, very fundamental part of the core curriculum.
00:22:58
Speaker
You're learning war strategies. How have that experience from your base level of education as a college athlete and then eventual captain in the Marine Corps now helped you as coach to see this big picture of what a team really is?
Military Influence on Coaching Style
00:23:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think a couple things there. Yeah.
00:23:24
Speaker
And I love what you said. It's not failure. It's feedback, right? Everything's an opportunity to learn. And I think that's the same thing in terms of the strategies and the things that we do as coaches.
00:23:36
Speaker
um
00:23:43
Speaker
And I'll kind of, guess, go on a little bit of a tangent, less about the Academy and more about the Marine Corps, like in the Marine Corps, whether you're If you're an officer, you go through the basic school. If you're an enlisted person, you go through boot camp.
00:23:57
Speaker
Those things teach you how to be an infantry officer or infantry officer, infantry man. The purpose of that is...
00:24:09
Speaker
Everything the Marine Corps does is in service of the infantryman because they are the backbone of who the Marine Corps is. So I was a finance officer in the Marine Corps, not that glamorous, um but a job that was required nonetheless. If people don't get food on the table, they don't have bullets and and they don't know where their paycheck is coming. They're focused on the wrong things, right? So, but when I got to, when I woke up every day,
00:24:38
Speaker
My job was focused on doing it the best that I could for the person that was what we used to say downrange, right? The infantry officer. So, but, but that, that level of basic training helped to me to understand, wow, I'm sitting in an office right now with some air conditioning and those guys are like humping it.
00:24:58
Speaker
They're sacrificing. Like, I think I have a bad, like, no, I need to help them because they're the are struggling. So I think, Understanding and having empathy for
00:25:11
Speaker
how everybody fits in the team is an important piece. And then also like
00:25:20
Speaker
ah therere everybody has a skill set and everybody has something that can bring. But those things aren't equal. And so it like, you know, we talk about it a lot and talk about it certainly in the offensive perspective, like we are not an equal opportunity offense. Like what one guy gets to do, the other guy doesn't like it's what are you capable of and how can you help us?
00:25:41
Speaker
And so I guess that's kind of where I go. And, and you know, I think from a military standpoint, um and some of it is athletics. And, you know, I think Coach Belichick with the Patriots would do this a lot. right It's like we want to maximize our strengths and enhance our strengths and and try to find the enemy's or the opponent's weakness and attack them there.
00:26:04
Speaker
Like where is their critical vulnerability? And that's where we want to hit them. And how do we mitigate our vulnerabilities? And so I think that's kind of how we look at things here um from a high tactical and strategic level all the way down to an individual um and and what skills and and things do they need to work on.
00:26:26
Speaker
I will say I've come i've come a long way, or maybe not a long way, but I've progressed in my in my philosophy and I i credit Allen Stein Jr. for this one.
00:26:37
Speaker
um Great guy. When i we were at Maryland, he he came on and was gracious enough to do a Zoom with us during COVID. And it was funny. he He said a few things and it was, you know, obviously we're on Zoom, so we can't really see each other, but I could look at the other coaches and they're looking at me they're like, I'm not sure we want him saying this, but we clarified it after.
00:26:58
Speaker
And one of the things was focus on your strengths. Don't worry about your weaknesses. Yeah. And it used to be, again, using the lacrosse, but you got to be able to go right and left and you got to be equal and you got to be the same and and all of that stuff. and And ultimately, if you're trying to do that, you're you're you're everything's a priority and nothing is a priority all at the same time.
00:27:25
Speaker
And and ah when we pulled the string a little bit after the Zoom, he's like, listen, you have to work hard enough so your weaknesses aren't vulnerabilities and liabilities.
00:27:37
Speaker
but you need to be really good at what you're good at. um And so we've, I think I've kind of transitioned a little bit there in terms of let's not worry about, again, going back to what we can't do or what our weaknesses are. Let's really enhance our positives and what we can do. And let's put our guys in the right spots so that they can take advantage of that.
00:28:02
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love i love that. Alan's great guy. He's a great, phenomenal speaker. oh he's awesome. Met him years ago. And i've I've heard you speak on fair versus equal leadership.
00:28:13
Speaker
What does that represent on your team? Yeah, so I think, you know, what we talk about is um I will treat everyone fairly. I'm not treating everybody equally.
00:28:25
Speaker
And the the reason for that is again, like not every, no one's equal. No one is the same. And um you know, probably not a great analogy, but this is one that ah that I use because I think it it puts the picture together.
00:28:39
Speaker
if if two people, two individuals go in and rob a convenience store,
00:28:51
Speaker
They did something illegal, right? and And they need to be held accountable for that. Well, one of them was just, that's just what he does. And he's done it 20 times. And that's just kind of who he is.
00:29:02
Speaker
The other one lost his job. doesn't have any money, has two kids at home and needs to put food on the table. Key two needs to be held accountable.
00:29:13
Speaker
But like, those are two different, two same actions, two different circumstances. Again, apologize for the analogy. I'm not sure if that was the best one, but um you know, it's the same thing for us. And, and,
00:29:27
Speaker
What I try to tell the guys is, listen, to as much as I can, I'm going to give you context of why we're doing things, why we're holding certain guys accountable, those kinds of things. There are also things that you don't know that I know that is going on with these people.
00:29:43
Speaker
And it's not your you don't get it's not your prerogative. You don't get to know about that stuff. It's not important. it's not your business. Mm-hmm. But just know that be we're doing things a little bit differently based on that that individual. So I treat everybody fairly.
00:30:02
Speaker
We have a standard. We uphold the standard. I would say how we uphold the standard is a little bit different. And you know this is from Coach K, um you know who I just admire so much, despite him being an Army guy. we We don't hold that against him because he's done a lot of awesome things. um um you know He talks about don't have too many rules because if you have rules, you have to uphold them.
00:30:31
Speaker
And so we try to give just general standards and guidelines for our guys to live by. And then, you know, with when they kind of lose their way or fall off the the track a little bit, you know, we try to recenter them in a way that is less punitive and more productive.
00:30:49
Speaker
And what that looks like for each guy is different. So two guys do the same thing, probably not going to have the same, ways that we hold them accountable because it's never the same circumstances.
00:31:02
Speaker
okay Yeah. And as, as a coach, that's a fine line to walk. Cause then if my stud player does something wrong, it could be viewed as resentment. If his punishment is different than another individual.
00:31:18
Speaker
Yeah. But, but, but let me be clear ability and what they can do on the field has very little, to do with that equality.
00:31:29
Speaker
Okay. it It is not, you're the, you're the number one guy on our depth chart versus the 50th guy does something different. Now it could be perceived that way.
00:31:40
Speaker
Right. But if this is the first time that I've had to speak to that guy, that's number one on the depth chart. A that's probably why he's number one on the depth chart. Okay. Because he's doing everything right. Yeah. And B like,
00:31:56
Speaker
that's the first time the other guy I've had to speak to like 10 times. And again, it was probably why he's lower on the depth chart. Well, he hasn't learned. Okay. So like, this isn't, it's not the same. It's not the same thing. And, um, you know, i think that distinction is important. I really don't look at it like like ability and playing ability.
00:32:16
Speaker
um you know It's it's you know value to our team and what you're doing, what you're providing. Time out. Tex here at Train Heroic headquarters, meeting with the team to talk about the coaching experience that I'm able to provide for my athletes. So if you're a coach and want to put your program out there on an app that athletes actually enjoy using, Train Heroics for you. I've been using it since 2014. delivering literally over tens of thousands of workouts to athletes.
00:32:44
Speaker
And Train Heroic allows me to provide the unique coaching experience that I want to. Uploading video, providing coaching feedback, directions, and building a community, that's why I love Train Heroic. And if you want to take your athletes where they can't take themselves, that they want to go, head to trainheroic.com slash captains and check out how you can deliver programming to them.
00:33:06
Speaker
And now, back to the show. Ready, ready, and we're in.
Gentleman Warrior Philosophy at Holy Cross
00:33:11
Speaker
This is a great opportunity for us to transition into the gentleman gentleman warrior philosophy that you're instilling at at Holy Cross. It's a great representation. It's very visual.
00:33:23
Speaker
And it's ah almost in one in one phrase, you can hold your team accountable for their actions to whether they know they're right or wrong or on track. So help us understand the origin of that and how you represent and introduce that to your team.
00:33:42
Speaker
Yeah, I think... um You know, one of the things that we talk about is we want to be a beacon for every organization on campus. and And we want to lead in that way and and set the example. And, um you know, we want to be known as a bunch of good guys. And when, you know, somebody needs some assistance, whether it's moving chairs or helping the first years move in or shoveling snow, whatever that is, it's like, hey, those lacrosse guys will help out. Right. And and so, yeah.
00:34:14
Speaker
You know, and I think it's important to me that our guys are good guys. You know, we're we're a Jesuit school here at Holy Cross. And, you know, St. Ignatius' motto was be a man for others. And we try to live that every day that that we're here. you know, and and when we're off the field and I kind of give this analogy, right? Like if we're playing another team, like we can hold the door for them to come out of the building to go onto the field. But as soon as we cross the lines, there needs to be a level of competitiveness and fire um that is not necessarily seen, um you know, in in in everyday life and around campus. And, you know, I think there's a baseline of,
00:35:01
Speaker
We talk about an approach to excellence. There's a baseline of just living your life, wanting to be excellent. And the reason we use gentlemen warriors, cause like we want to be excellent in every walk of life. Well, sometimes we just need to be excellent gentlemen. And then other times when we're on the field, we need to be those warriors. And I think wanting guys that are super competitive, wanting guys that realize like, again, it's an analogy and and sports certainly isn't, isn't,
00:35:27
Speaker
war and And by no stretch would I ever want to, um you know, diminish what what our service men and women are doing and and what people are doing to sacrifice so that we can sit here and talk on a podcast and I get to coach the the sport that I love.
00:35:44
Speaker
but But I do think there's some parallel there in that, like the other team wants to beat you. And the other team, like within the confines of the rules, um wants to do everything they possibly can to win. And we need to have that same mentality.
00:36:02
Speaker
And that's where the warrior part comes in. Like whatever it takes to quote unquote survive or win, I'm willing to do. And it's beyond just me. It's I'm willing to do it for my team and my teammates. Yeah.
00:36:19
Speaker
Um, and so that's kind of where we, we came up with it. And, um, again, I want good guys, you know, um, won't get too much into the recruiting side of things, but like, I'm just not a lax bro. I don't believe in that. I, I, I just don't, I don't love that our sport gets that rap because there's so many great people out here. Um,
00:36:39
Speaker
I'd be a remiss if I didn't mention Liam Gleeson, who unfortunately just passed away, Siena's head coach. And man, what a great guy and and a guy that I think embodies that part of it, of being a gentleman warrior. um you know And so you know i think that's what I try to impress upon our guys is, especially with the gentleman part, like we are overcoming a lot of perception and stereotyping.
00:37:02
Speaker
And so we just need to know that that's what it is and be be great people and and overcome it. Yeah. And within that, I've heard you speak on being liked versus respected.
00:37:16
Speaker
And that almost plays into the being too cool conversation, especially with the social dynamics of freshmen to seniors at the college and the high school level. So how do you navigate that portion of it where maybe some younger guys are acting out to try to impress the older guys that's not necessarily in line with team values? Yeah.
00:37:37
Speaker
Man, that is so hard. I think peer leadership, especially at at the high school and college level is one of the hardest things to to do. Shoot, I fight that battle every day as a parent, like wanting to be liked versus respected by my son, right? It's like, it's kind of human nature. And that's where the ego part comes in. And and at the end of the day, you need to look in the mirror and go, hi, I did everything I can. I can't control how he feels about me.
00:38:04
Speaker
Yeah. yeah And with a little bit of awareness, making sure I did things the right way and I approached it that way. So, um you know, I think what we talk about is like to me being respected is like, again, you're setting the example.
00:38:17
Speaker
You're not asking them to do things that you're not willing to do. You're handling things in the right way. You're empathetic. You're compassionate. You're open to their circumstances and helping them to get to where we need to go with our standards and versus being liked is that's where we you know, you kind of you might be a little bit loose on a standard here, or, you know, might sacrifice something there, or you're focused on being liked in, in the realm that doesn't improve you as a, as an individual, but also us as a team.
00:38:54
Speaker
Um, You know, and I think that's what we, I try to work on a lot. Listen, if, if every guy likes me every single day on our team, we got 48 dudes. Like if everybody likes me every day, I'm not doing my job.
00:39:07
Speaker
magic They, there should be days when they're like, Oh coach, God can't. But at the end of the day, them knowing that I care about them as people, knowing that the purpose of what I'm doing is to get them to push past what they think they're capable of.
00:39:26
Speaker
And like knowing that I'm doing it with the the goal in mind of helping our team and our program, like that's the respect part. And so they don't always have to like it, but they have to understand and and respect it. and And the other side of this two texts is trying to create an environment where if they don't respect it or understand it,
00:39:51
Speaker
they can come and talk about it and we can have a conversation and we can say, listen, oh, I get your point of view, but here's my point of view Here's why I did it. You don't agree with why I did it, but just understand there's a reason behind it.
00:40:04
Speaker
Yeah. And I like that. And you, you referenced it. We talked about it before the show. We can't not mention this, but be the example versus setting, setting the example. Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um You know, I think we talk about um leading by example versus setting the example. So, you know, I think people say that a lot. Well, he leads by example.
00:40:31
Speaker
Well, leading is getting people to go places and do things that they wouldn't have done on their own. And if you lead by example, that doesn't mean anybody is coming with you.
00:40:45
Speaker
ah um So the point of it is you have to set the example. You have to live and embody what you're trying to get other people to do does not require perfection.
00:40:59
Speaker
but it does require a level of a great approach and constant improvement and, and, um, you know, doing the best you can, um, and some humility and accountability when you don't.
00:41:12
Speaker
Um, so we talk about, you have to set the example so that then you can lead. Um, and, and, it just kind of you know In the Marine Corps, we talk about having the moral authority to lead, which means you have to be able to uphold the standard yourself before you can can try to lead others in that direction. but like Just because I'm in front, if if I'm in front and I'm going down a road, the rest of the team could have been turned around and going the other way. like I'm not leading anybody.
00:41:43
Speaker
ah yeah so um So we we talk a you know a great deal about that and shout out to one of my buddies, Eric Kapitulik, who does the program and does some some things with us that he is big on that part of it of setting the example verse verse leading by example.
00:42:01
Speaker
here And um I want to shout out a quote from John woing Wooten, activity versus achievement. Oh. So let's let's get into, you've got some strong feelings about that one.
00:42:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think... um
00:42:20
Speaker
You know, I think a couple in a couple ways, I think for me personally and and as a coach and and a leader, um you know, you always feel like and and I've been this guy and and sometimes I revert back to it and I try to correct myself. But kind of that joystick coach, right? Like you're yelling everything. You're barking all the commands. You're telling everybody what to do. But but but but but the whole point of this is.
00:42:45
Speaker
certainly to develop guys to, and we talked about earlier to lead a great life and have an impactful life and do well in their careers. um Cause they, they, what does the NCAA say? You are going to be a professional, just not in your sport or something to that regard. but Yeah. There's a cold early two thousands ad. I, I quote, yeah you're going to go professional in sport. Yeah. Yeah. There you go.
00:43:08
Speaker
um But yeah, But the other point of it is for the guys to perform on Saturdays on game day, which is the test. And so, you know, forever it was like, well, I'm going to scream. And even during a game, like I'm screaming all game and there's a lot of activity. But what am I achieving? Right. And and what am I getting at and what is the purpose? and And what I've realized or I'm trying to continue to learn and and and um and execute is,
00:43:36
Speaker
understanding how to get each individual to perform, to help the collective to perform. And it goes back to fair versus equal. Like some guys do need to be yelled at. Some guys need to, to be kind of like passive aggressively, like needled a little bit. Some guys need a hug and just need to go like, okay, I know you're struggling right now. You're a really good player.
00:44:01
Speaker
Just take a deep breath and just focus on this. Um, And then kind of figuring out how all of those patches in the quilt come together. How do we as a team need to be led and and coached so that we can perform as a collective? um And then I think from a player standpoint or what we talk about with our guys and our team is, you know,
00:44:27
Speaker
You can't at our level, you can't just show up for practice and expect to be good and expect to to achieve the goals that we have set for us. You have to do stuff outside of of of practice, which if you look at an academic analogy, like you would never expect to go just to class and get straight A's unless you're really, really smart.
00:44:47
Speaker
um You can't do that at Holy Cross. It's too hard here. um So you have to do homework. You have to talk to your professors. You have to do all this stuff. Well, you need to do the same thing for lacrosse.
00:45:00
Speaker
So we've gotten to that point where, okay, I got to do some extra stuff. Now it's it's not just about you know being on a field and and and taking your shirt off and stinging the high corner every time when you shoot from 15 yards. It's about here are the things. It goes back to those weaknesses, not being vulnerabilities and enhancing what we can do well.
00:45:21
Speaker
Here are the the things that you really need to hone in on to work at and to get better at. Um, there's a time and a place for hanging out and just enjoying the game of lacrosse with a stick and whatever. But when you're, when you're trying to get that extra work in the achievement is in focusing and and being intentional about what you're doing, um, in everything you're doing and, and, and then translating into, to, um,
00:45:48
Speaker
Practice or how we play. And I think this is actually Kara Lawson, who was a Duke women's basketball coach. And I'm probably going to butcher this. So I apologize. But she she had a it was on social media speech with her team and and she was talking about working hard versus competing.
00:46:05
Speaker
and And different way to say activity versus achievement. Like we typically don't have a a problem motivating our guys to play hard, hustle, run around, but are they doing it with intent and purpose with what they're doing? Can you play hard and intent and purpose with intent and purpose at the same time?
00:46:24
Speaker
And to me, that's the activity versus achievement. Yeah, ah I love it. I would reference this in the the weight room, especially for the college level guys, working out versus training. You guys can go and bro out and work out and do biceps and bench press.
00:46:38
Speaker
But when we're on my time, we're training, we're focused, we're dialed in. And we can still have some candor and have some fun in here. But when we're moving, we're moving with intention.
00:46:50
Speaker
um well You mentioned Allen Stein Jr. Unseen hours. I think we're talking a little bit about this. How would you communicate or how do you communicate to your guys the importance of those unseen hours that doesn't feel like a lecture?
00:47:06
Speaker
o
00:47:10
Speaker
I'm not sure. I'm not sure if I've solved that riddle yet. No, but I think it's, I think it's a matter of, you know, we do this at the beginning of the year where we, we have our guys individually and collectively as classes and then collectively as a team talk about what they want to get out of the year.
00:47:31
Speaker
and And so really it's their voice that we, you know in in looking at it from maybe a pessimistic view, right? Like we turn their voice around against them all year long and not from a place of negativity, but from positivity. You said, this is your goal.
00:47:48
Speaker
It is my job to get you to reach your goals. And in some cases to look past what you think your goal can be. And so that's where the unseen hours is like, Hey, it, your goals need, and this might've been Allen Stein too. Like your goals need to match your, your level of investment and your willingness to work.
00:48:10
Speaker
And so it's just my job to show you the level of investment of what, what is needed. If that's truly not your goal deep down, then we need to reevaluate what we're doing here. But, um,
00:48:24
Speaker
So we try to talk about it there. and and And I think you mentioned briefly recruiting. Like I think so much of it is finding the right guys that, again, it's it's finding a little bit cliche maybe, but finding joy in the process. Like I don't want to have to drag guys onto the field.
00:48:41
Speaker
Like I want guys that want to be there and enjoy it. And, and, you know I had a great experience at Maryland and and so appreciative of coach Tillman and everything he did for me. And, and the guys that, that played on those teams, like, yeah, they were really talented, but they didn't always come in that way.
00:48:59
Speaker
And they just loved being around each other, being on the field and like just getting better. And so we Again, it goes back to the cool to care. So much of this stuff kind of weaves all together. It's all similar, um you know, and and getting guys that want to be out there and and want to keep working. And then I think the other thing that I've tried to be, again, going back to this topic we discussed already is go, oh, man.
00:49:27
Speaker
I know you've been working on that move. Like, dude, you just did it. Like, that's it. Like we like, yeah, it pays paying off. So trying to make sure that we're positive and reinforcing some of that work ethic when it does happen, or again, it goes back to the failure. Like we we have a couple of guys that are really working hard on dodging right now, offensively, and they're trying to increase their repertoire and and they have the ability to do it. They just haven't had the experience and they're a little bit younger guys.
00:49:55
Speaker
And there's been a couple times where they get stripped or they get stopped. And again, it goes back to feedback, not failure. Like, no, dude, like that's it. Like all you got to do is just change this little bit, but you're getting there. So we try to reinforce some of that unseen hour stuff too.
Feedback Over Failure: Growth Mindset in Sports
00:50:11
Speaker
Yeah. The, that's an interesting thing. The feedback at their, this level of their mind is, did the ball go in the goal? yeah. And there is just so much that could happen between that totally as a marker of success.
00:50:29
Speaker
And you have to use the, the infinite practice hours to teach them what is a correct feedback loop. And then there, there's a great coach. I'm, I'm, I'm skipping his mind right now, but, uh, interviewed Dr. David Yeager, and he references him in his book to 10 to 25, San Antonio Spurs coach.
00:50:48
Speaker
And he's talking about his experience with Kawhi Leonard, who did not have the best shooting technique going into the league, but was ah a freak athlete. And his reference and feedback wasn't ball going in the hoop, the coaches, it was how did that feel?
00:51:03
Speaker
Yeah. And then he would start to shape his self-awareness, Kawhi's self-awareness, and tell, help inform him what he felt, give him one cue to to fix his shot, and then eventually shaped into unconscious ah competence where it just would go where he was aiming. So helping, I mean, that that's an arm wrestle for one, two, three, four years to help them understand you can have the perfect shot.
00:51:32
Speaker
And then the goalie does some freakishly amazing athletic thing. And then On the defensive side of the ball, you can play picture-perfect defense. And, I mean, just some magic happens that will be on an Instagram highlight reel.
00:51:48
Speaker
and And again, to me, what we we talk about is like make them do that all game. Don't let that one thing change how you approach things.
00:51:59
Speaker
Make like, listen, if they do that all game, they should win. Like that's getting beat. Kudos to us, kudos to them. Right. But like what happens, you, you have that negative outcome and you totally change how you're playing because you're like, well, this isn't working. It's like, well, it's just one time, man. Like just make them keep doing it.
00:52:21
Speaker
So, yeah. Yeah. um um Academics is a big thing. So some students struggle with the academic load. They're there for lacrosse in their mind, and that's their purpose.
00:52:33
Speaker
So sometimes that goes by the wayside. This is both college and high school level. How do you instill the importance of academics without just telling them?
00:52:45
Speaker
I'm actually pretty fortunate here um that our guys come with the focus of wanting to be great academically and and it's a challenging school. So um we we typically don't, I don't have to typically drag guys too much in in that regard. But I think just in general,
00:53:05
Speaker
um again, it goes back to
00:53:13
Speaker
Success is a way of life.
00:53:19
Speaker
And, and this is probably goes way back to the beginning of our podcast when you're talking about the Naval Academy and the Marine Corps, like there's a consistency and a level of attention to detail and doing things the right way that is just important for success.
00:53:39
Speaker
And, I like to be successful, you need to have that approach to excellence and that focus on excellence in every single thing you do. and listen, if the other side of it is maybe you're good at English, but you're not great at math.
00:54:00
Speaker
Well, then you should get an A in English. But if C, if you're busting your your tail and the best you can do is C in math, you've that's excellence for you.
00:54:12
Speaker
Right. But did you actually do that? Or did you go, ah I'm not that good at it. So I'm not going to focus on it. I think that's the conversations that we try to have with guys. um But, you know, we we have a standard of keeping our locker room the right way. we make sure that guys are wearing the same thing at practice. And like those are just like guys have to go to class. They you know, they have to dress a certain way. Like those are just things that.
00:54:37
Speaker
it needs to become habit and second nature. And that's what successful people do. So that's the way we, we try to encourage them is the approach to excellence is a way of life. As I say a lot to a lot of recruits, when I first talked to them, like if you're washing the dishes after dinner tonight, make those dishes as clean as you have ever made them clean.
00:54:56
Speaker
Like that's excellence right there. I like it. i I'm going to, I'm gonna apply that line and bring it to it. I try to aim to accomplish that with with little behaviors as as simple as how we align our bags during a game.
00:55:12
Speaker
How do we put our our backup sticks in a game? And then the daily dose is at practice during our warmup. We place our stick behind our warmup line and our gloves off.
00:55:24
Speaker
And why I do that, I've seen guys just throw their sticks down during warm-up and then somebody trips on it, costs a teammate an ankle right because your brain went somewhere for one second when we placed our stick down.
00:55:37
Speaker
So little things like that. I can't just tell them that this matters, but trying to help them ah eventually see the behavior after the length of a season or at least a fall ball.
00:55:49
Speaker
um So little things like that. where You said game day is the test. How important is them to to understand that that it is the test and what can we take away from from success? What can we learn from failures to then continue to roll and just really become that that gentleman warrior and not just hang our head after one letdown, one game?
00:56:17
Speaker
Yeah, I think... um
00:56:26
Speaker
the The challenge in a lot of ways for me um is we spend – I did the math at one point. I can't remember what it
Preparation in Sports vs. Academics
00:56:40
Speaker
is. But let's say we have 15 games.
00:56:44
Speaker
Well, we spend five times almost, give or take, maybe even more, five times 15 to get ready for each game. So I don't know, what is that? 75 times that we're together as a team, like we don't get tested and then we get tested. So the challenge is in the, like, that's where you're going to get evaluated is the test.
00:57:08
Speaker
But so much of it is the process of of practice and improvement and preparation. um You know, and and and part of the reason I try to give that analogy of the test is um because everybody can kind of relate to it, I think.
00:57:28
Speaker
And if, you you know, guilty as charged, like everybody's gone into a test where they haven't prepared that well. And then you're nervous. Like you're like, oh shit. Like, I don't know. i don't know what's going on.
00:57:42
Speaker
Plenty of people have gone in again, and tried to cram for the test. And maybe it works out a couple times, but over the course of your academic career, that's not a great strategy either. So it's about the methodical studying to be ready for the test. And the test just kind of gets in the way of what you do.
00:58:05
Speaker
And you take it, and you know, and and you've mentioned the weight room a couple times, it's something that Throughout my time, I've had conversations with strength coaches about like as it relates to a conditioning test or the, you know, some of the combine type stuff that the football guys do. Now, again, when you're trying to get in the NFL, totally different realm.
00:58:25
Speaker
Right. But my point has always been we should not have to do the test to train for the test. The training should have the guys ready.
00:58:37
Speaker
And so, yeah, there's a level of practicing the test. So there's familiarity, call it a scrimmage in a game situation, call it a quiz in academics. um But we, but you should be able to, to prepare for it and study for it so that you're ready and then let the results bear what they are.
00:58:55
Speaker
And, and, you know, it's interesting. i actually had a conversation with one of our young guys the other day talking about one of his classes and he's like, He was all excited. Coach, I just crushed this test. I'm like, man, that's awesome. You struggled the first one. He's like, yeah, I recognize like how you had to study was totally different than what I did the first time. And I changed it and it was great. I'm like, yes, that's it.
00:59:21
Speaker
You nailed it. okay um And so that's kind of what we try to talk about lacrosse wise, too. I love it. Well, we can take some jabs at army right now because what they did was change their fitness test to look like training. So people would actually train to be freaking soldiers. I don't know if you're following that. I didn't. No, I didn't.
00:59:42
Speaker
Oh, so it went from pushups and sit-ups to running because then people would only do that to now deadlifting, medicine ball throw, all sorts of challenges that they're facing an uphill battle.
00:59:57
Speaker
And there's one solution for it they're avoiding because they don't want to fail. That's add pull-ups like Marines do. And then that's going to solve every single problem. But they're doing all this work around and and scared of the truth.
01:00:10
Speaker
If you do pull-ups, you got to be fit. you' It's going to force you to lose weight so you can get up on that bar. So shout out Marines. I love it. i love it. Well, it's funny because that we always give the the Navy a hard time too, right? Like we do a three mile or at least I think they still do. They do. We do a three mile physical test run and they do a mile and a half. Like you can gut out a mile and a half. It's not very comfortable if you have to, but you could do it.
01:00:37
Speaker
Really challenging to gut out three miles. Like if you haven't prepared, you're in trouble for those three miles. so Yeah. No hiding. So last couple of questions for fun. Bus trips, love it as a coach. Reason being, get to put on old DVDs, VHS tapes, and movies.
Inspiration from Cinema: Go-to Team Movies
01:00:57
Speaker
What is your favorite movie go-to to introduce to these guys? Because there's this giant gap we of great movies that they just haven't seen. um Well, there's there's been two of them typically. Hoosiers is one.
01:01:12
Speaker
um Don't Let the Paint Dry. And then a miracle has been another staple. And and I will tell you, ah this might've been two or three years ago. Now we had a young man that sat maybe two rows behind me and he recited every single line of miracle and his team was like, what is wrong with you?
01:01:30
Speaker
We've never even seen this. So there is some hope. There are certain guys out there that still watch these movies. So that's a good one. Yeah. My move is to go to the Goodwill, find the dollar DVDs, PG 13, of course. And, uh,
01:01:44
Speaker
And let a rip. And it's crazy now. They all just watch movies on their phone and individually. It's it's I've taken the phones. I forced you to watch Anchorman. This is my favorite documentary. i And then um hello last question. Who's your favorite fictional coach of all time?
01:02:11
Speaker
I mean, I would have to go with ah Gene Hackman in Hoosiers. I guess he's kind of nonfiction, right? Because it was based on a true story. But I think that he, um
01:02:24
Speaker
you know, again, so much of that to me embodies, don't totally agree it's ah sometimes with with some of the different things here or there, but like, he embodies what you need to be as a coach, like being tough, understanding, being compassionate, like being, um, holding strong to your core beliefs.
01:02:48
Speaker
Um, and, and, but also seeing the best in people, right. And giving people a second chance. And so that that's my favorite movie of all time. So it's a great one.
01:03:00
Speaker
RIP Gene Hackman. Um, yeah. I got to go with Chubbs Peterson. ah That's a good one too. Yeah, no doubt. I love ah love it I love it. That's a good one too.
01:03:11
Speaker
Cool. JL, thanks for your time, man. Excited for the season. I'll be following right along. So where can people go to follow the team and and learn from your experience as a leader?
01:03:23
Speaker
um You know, I think um Holy Cross, GoHolyCross.com, I think is the website. And, um you know, um I'm on social media at Coach Rep.
01:03:35
Speaker
um And I think our Holy Cross handles are HC and LAX. So we'd love for people to follow. And Tex, really appreciate it. This was fun. I love talking this stuff and, um you know, happy to be on anytime. So thanks for having me.
01:03:52
Speaker
You got it, man. Happy to grow the game. So thank you, sir. Talk next time. and That's great.