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Has The World Become Too Cynical For Superheroes? | Windbreaker Podcast
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On this week’s episode of Windbreaker, Yahtzee, Marty and Frost discuss video games and their use of superheroes.
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Transcript
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00:00:00
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00:00:50
Speaker
Hello everyone, welcome back to the Windbreakers podcast, the podcast that exists thanks to viewers like you wanting to listen to us being obliged to give a shit about something for two hours on a Monday morning. I'm Yachty Crozier and I'm joined by Frosted Marty as always. Beat beat. We are the viewers like you. Also, did you see that fancy intro? Oh my gosh, a great ad, a fancy intro. Woo doggy! Oh man, I'm not sure I can take the pressure of having to perform after all that.
00:01:19
Speaker
can do it. I believe in us. It's like, it's like having to follow up the Rolling Stones or something.
Superman: A Boring Character?
00:01:24
Speaker
Anyway, so last week I reviewed, uh, the Suicide Squad, Kill the Justice League, uh, for Fully Ramblivatic. Pretty shitty game. I think we're all in agreement on that. But the amount of shit I got in the comments, guys, the amount of shit for one light little throwaway statement where I said I thought Superman was kind of a boring character and all they ever seem to do with him these days is make him evil.
00:01:46
Speaker
Yeah. You knew what you were doing. You were leaning back for that. I actually, I don't think he did know. I don't think you, you expected that sort of wave of like, oh, Superman, how dare you Yahtzee? I expected better of you. No, I was a little thrown. Everyone got very hiramfy about it. Like, no, Superman's actually a really good, I'll probably get hiramfy about this tone of voice I'm using now. No, Superman's a really cool character. It's, he's just hard to write well.
00:02:15
Speaker
And then they point to like four Superman stories, one of four throughout the entire history of the oceans of Superman stories that exist to show that that is actually a good character and well-written. I don't know. Saying a character is good if he's written well, that doesn't mean a whole lot. I mean, anything's good if it's written well. It's like saying the Last Supper would be really shit if someone who wasn't a really good artist painted it. That is true.
00:02:40
Speaker
That is true. If I try to take a stab at it, it'd be bad. No, but that's the difference there, though. Is that they're more saying that you're insulting. Who made the Last Supper? Da Vinci? No. Jesus Cook. Yeah, it's more that you still find it boring in spite of this having been touched by Da Vinci himself. In spite of it all,
Superman in Video Games Challenges
00:03:01
Speaker
Yachts, you still think that Superman's boring?
00:03:04
Speaker
Well, I feel most entertainment media seems to agree. Superman is adapted a hell of a lot less than Batman these days. And whatever he's adapted in most recent years, it never seems to work out. Yeah. Let's make this a conversation instead of me ranting. What do you guys think about Superman?
00:03:25
Speaker
It seems like Superman is particularly difficult to adapt in video games, right? Because I feel like there's two conversations here. There's adaptation in
00:03:36
Speaker
movies and cartoons and TV shows and stuff, that's one thing. But then adapting to a game is a whole different thing because then you get to the problem of like, how do you make this moveset interesting? How do you make someone who can move at the speed of sound and who is completely impervious interesting? And that's why we have things like Superman 64 and like forgotten Superman games or Superman gets relegated into, he's been nerfed or he's evil as you see in stuff like Injustice or Suicide Squad.
00:04:06
Speaker
So yeah, Injustice is, I think, the most recent example of Superman being a playable character. It's never really worked out in any other Superman adaptation. I think there was a game based on the...
00:04:19
Speaker
What was the Superman before Henry Campbell? Yeah, that dude. There was a game based on that that no one, yeah, Brandon, round and round, thank you, that no one really talks about. There was Superman 64, there was a couple of shitty platform games from back in the olden times. Yeah, there was something Superman, or Justice League beat him up, I think, around the Superman era. All of them running into the inevitable issue of why the fuck is Superman being threatened by random MOOCs? Yeah.
00:04:47
Speaker
because it's a video game, there's got to be a failure state. Not everyone can be wielding Kryptonite. Wait a minute, what if? Here's the failure state, right? It kind of reminded me like in Hellblade. Imagine you're Superman, you're fighting off these hordes, and even though you can't die, they can sort of like swarm you enough to where you can't move. There's your fail state. You could walk away for two hours, but you still be stuck there and you have to work your way out of that crowd. That's as close to a fail state as you're gonna get. And the innocents are dying off in the background.
00:05:16
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's that's the other thing you can do. If like an innocent dies on your watch, then you have to game over and go away and become a monk or something. I think it's telling that the most successful superhero games of the last 15 years have probably been about kind of street level, basic superheroes, quote unquote, between Batman and Spider-Man.
00:05:37
Speaker
You know what I thought you were gonna say? Like the most successful superhero style games have often been helmed by supervillainess characters or characters who have the option of acting like a supervillain. Such as with infamous prototype and the precursor to those two was the Incredible Hulk Ultimate Destruction.
00:05:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I thought you were going elsewhere with that. I thought you were going to say that the best Superman or superhero games are essentially not superheroes like God of War. He has that problem. He is a God of War, but he's still getting caught off by, like you said, some random mook in the forest after fighting Thor, right? Well, he was a he was a God in the classical antiquity sense in that he was just a dude who's more powerful than a person. I mean, these days, the idea of God being omnipotent is really just a Judeo-Christian thing.
00:06:24
Speaker
That's where capital G-God versus a lowercase G-God. That's where you struggle with the Superman yet essentially, isn't it? Because you can't die. And if you do, well, were you really super?
00:06:34
Speaker
Yeah. Can Superman create a rock too heavy for him to lift? Sure. And if he can't pick up that rock, this opens itself up to some monetization, you know, put your credit card in, and now the game is falling apart. Yeah, I mean, you do, you brought the point of other non superhero characters filling the role of superheroes, and it does feel like
00:06:59
Speaker
We are ostensibly playing a superhero in almost any open world game now, right? Like if a superhero, what does a superhero do? A superhero helps the innocent, helps those in need, thwarts bad guys, you know, is there to solve people's like street level problems.
Superheroes and Society's Status Quo
00:07:14
Speaker
Like that's what any open world, that's what Geralt does. That's what Sam Bridges does in Death Stranding. That's what Ichiban does in Dragon. That's what you do in Skyrim. Every RPG you've ever played.
00:07:26
Speaker
And I think if you're the reason why I think the world is too cynical for superheroes, although maybe this is me projecting, but when we see someone who's all powerful doing that sort of thing, like ground level problem solving, our first question is, what the fuck are you doing here? Why aren't you fixing all the problems that exist on higher levels in the world? Because Superman was always been like a pawn of the status quo, a pawn of the establishment.
00:07:50
Speaker
I mean, a lot of superheroes are. They're like, we fight crime, we work with the police, we're okay with the police, we beat up criminals, and if the mayor comes off and tells us to deal with this problem, we salute and go right away, Mr. Mayor. I mean, there's classic stories from my way back when, where Superman, I think I've seen like a panel cut out of context where Superman's talking to Richard Nixon.
00:08:14
Speaker
in like a classic Silver Age comic. And it's and Superman says, door, Mr. President, if you can't trust the president of the US, who can you trust? And that's the sort of vibe Superman had back in the day. And that really doesn't work for a modern audience living in a world where we have seen that the people in power can fuck things up just as much as anyone else.
00:08:35
Speaker
So is that why you think that there's, which I don't know, like in a post Watchmen world that so many of the successful superhero stories have been kind of commentary on superhero as a genre between, you know, the boys or invincible or Hickman's, Marvel, like my Hancock, my hero academia.
00:08:54
Speaker
Yeah, that's what you've got to do these days. You've got to examine it. You've got to deconstruct it because a lot of people would look at it and say, well, what's all this? I mean, you could say a lot of the Marvel and DC superhero movies do the same thing these days. They look at something like Shazam. That's a comedic deconstruction of the concept of a child turning into a superhero and still having the mind of a child as a superhero.
00:09:21
Speaker
And that wasn't the case with the character originally, they were just like a straight superhero who happened to like turn back into a kid. Yeah, it feels like superheroes, at least in movies, became not a genre, it became like the condiment for other genres, like you would get the sci fi kind of family stories in Guardians of the Galaxy, or you'd get kind of the more
00:09:40
Speaker
espionage thrillers and winter soldier or a crime movie and the dark knight kind of thing. And then the superhero was like, Oh, and by the way, it's also a superhero movie. Um, which I guess is kind of what Westerns did at a certain point. Maybe it's the animes that have killed it. Thanks. As far as like wholesome, I will beat you with the power of friendship. We've got so many of those. Yeah. Yeah. I was just watching demons player. Yeah.
00:10:04
Speaker
I think Superman can work if it's about Superman level crises, like, you know, super alien invasions of beings more powerful than Superman. I think it doesn't work so much when it's Superman beating up, say, Toyman.
00:10:21
Speaker
Who's just a dude who likes toys. That's a Batman villain. That's our audience. That's us. Superman beats up gamers. I mean, for the same reason Batman doesn't really work for me when it's just Batman going around randomly beating up Tufts. But if it's Batman actually being a detective investigating supervillains and like bringing them down, that feels more like something more appropriate to Batman's level of resources and ability.
00:10:51
Speaker
Gotcha then. What if you have to play as Clark Kent and Superman, and the world is falling the shit around you, but you have to balance when to turn into Superman while also keeping your Clark Kent-ness separate. Like Persona, you have to do a nine to five at the, you have to do a nine to five at the Daily Planet, and then at night you have to enter the mementos that is the sky.
00:11:14
Speaker
I suppose my first question would be what terrible consequence to Superman imagine ensuing of people realizing that he is Clark Kent? Because it seems like everyone in his social circle gets endangered by supervillains all the time anyway. Regardless, my favorite Superman was like
00:11:31
Speaker
The old old cartoons. Well, look up in the sky. It's a bird. It's a plane. These are the ones where the biggest feat of strength is like, oh, I lifted a train, but I went right before I. Yeah, because originally Superman wasn't supposed to be like that level of crazy powerful. The original. So he was like, ending a gun like, oh, that's neat. Yeah, it was. It was really. Yeah.
00:11:51
Speaker
He was really strong. That was it. He couldn't fly. He didn't have heat vision or freeze. All buildings in a single bound. Yeah, exactly. Just one building. Yeah, just one building. It can't be that tall. It can't be like moderately tall. I think the problem with Superman is
00:12:08
Speaker
I'm going to keep going back to Spider-Man and Batman, because those are the more successful versions of a modern open world superhero game we've gotten, is that Spider-Man and Batman, the stuff in between all makes sense. The Batman going from building top to building top, or doing the investigations, or swooping down on an enemy, that all makes sense gameplay and mechanically. Spider-Man, the same thing, swinging across the city.
00:12:34
Speaker
you can envision all of that. Whereas with Superman, it feels like you would almost need a Superman game to be built around tiny, like 45 second chunks where you're Supermanning. So it would almost, instead of being an open world game where you're stitching all this stuff together, it would have to be like,
00:12:50
Speaker
broken up like a neon white or something. And to where each level is, this is the Superman has to do X, and it is only 30 seconds, but you have to stop this airplane from falling out of the sky. And it seems like that is the way to wrap my head around a Superman game. But people don't like those. Like I said, in Iron Man, there was a bit where you had to just destroy a bunch of random stuff, and you had to do it fast enough so that you could save Pepper. The only fail state, because they weren't going to kill Iron Man, was to just have it out, Tony, and then game over, try again.
00:13:20
Speaker
Yeah, and all those... there's bits in the Spider-Man games where you've played
Concepts for Superman Games
00:13:24
Speaker
normal person bumming around a house. Everyone talks shit about those. Especially me. Riding your bike across the city for your first day on the job? Yeah. I think Superman 64 with the flying through rings. I mean, there was the kernel of the right way to do it there. Make it sort of traversal based. And, you know, it's fun to be a really strong dude who can punch a dude into orbit.
00:13:48
Speaker
Do you think he just has too much power creep going on? Like kind of got to reset him? It's yeah, it's hard to justify him having struggling with anything at all and struggle is part is the meat and potatoes of a video game. That's why he's got a struggle at his nine to five because like how does fuck make money otherwise? I suppose
00:14:12
Speaker
You know what would be kind of fun would be a game sort of like along the lines of postal where you play Clark Kent just going through his daily life and just things keep shitting all over him and he has to sort of resist the temptation to just punch the dude into orbit. To having his Michael Douglas fully down moment.
00:14:30
Speaker
No, that's pretty good because I did go before this I watched like two videos on why Superman is actually great and I went through so many reddit threads of like okay why do people like Superman and so much of it did come down to like one he's just happy as hell. How do you translate that to games? I don't know.
00:14:47
Speaker
Well, I'd be happy too if I could punch dudes into orbit. That's what makes him fundamentally an unrelatable character too, like audiences of today. People have struggles. His wholesomeness. These are wholesome whores is what they like. Well, watch the fucking Care Bears then. I always wonder. Yeah. Well, there's the Bluey game. That's a good time. Yeah. I mean, I like Bluey because that's where I want my wholesomeness.
00:15:11
Speaker
Well, there was one guy though that actually had one solid point where it's, you know, Superman won't fail, but it's about the tension of like who the problem is. He might not save everyone. That's what he struggled with. Boo fucking him. That's what I was saying. Either you make it tense, but people don't like that. Like in the Iron Man game or.
00:15:31
Speaker
Um, we use these fancy new processors and these next gen consoles and whatnot. And we make a Superman Musou game where he is apparently the only person he actually hates is like Darkseid. Like that's the only person that he has any sort of animosity. He's got true beef with? Yeah. Like just let him fight through goons just constantly.
00:15:50
Speaker
It's why Superman just goonin' across the galaxy? Put him on like anti-Earth, where everyone is, it's awful, it's horrible, and you gotta save it from the dark side. You can now destroy this world. You can now beat up on as many goons as you want. For your free reign to just kill everything in sight. Keep him good, make everything so evil that he's allowed to finally just go crazy.
00:16:12
Speaker
So I feel like with this part of the conversation was sort of dancing around the actual issue. I mean, we're all asking, what can we do to make a Superman game good? Whereas I think the question is, why do we need a Superman game? I don't think we do. Do we really need something?
00:16:29
Speaker
Do we really need to adapt him? Do we just like get by with not adapting Superman? I mean, we, by and large, like you said, we kind of haven't, because I don't think people have been able to wrap their heads around it, right? You have Superman 64, which is very bad. You have the movie adaptation from 15 years ago, which is very forgettable. And then other than that, he's been, you know, in Injustice, which is a fighting game, which seems like an easy way to kind of just
00:16:53
Speaker
put your finger on the scale to fudge power levels or being a NPC antagonist in Suicide Squad. I don't think he's that much of a draw. Not like Batman. I don't think people are that interested in playing Superman games or watching Superman movies. It's interesting to see if the same is true a year and a half from now when there's a new Superman movie coming out from James Gunn.
00:17:19
Speaker
who, you know, made people give a shit about the Guardians of the Galaxy, and no one gave a shit about the Guardians of the Galaxy before that, so... Possibly. I mean, aside from the fact that he's hard to relate to, except from, like, the base-level boyhood fantasy, I want to beat up all the bullies and just smile at them as they try to hit me back.
00:17:37
Speaker
He's relatable on that level, but beyond that, it's, well, he's literally just an archetype. He's literally the Nietzschean Ubermensch. That's what Ubermensch means. Superman, literally. That's all he is. There's no real, I mean, the only way you can get a good story out of it is to really add your own shit to it. Oh, fanfiction?
00:18:01
Speaker
Well, no, or no, a commentary on it, like with Homelander and the Boys or Omni Man and Invincible, right? That takes that and builds like, well, what if he wasn't like a corn fed, like wholesome boy, but instead was fucking evil, was like a fascist. It's a rogue-like where you spawn in different states.
00:18:26
Speaker
I'm fully behind the concept of Suicide Squad. Getting to play the villains who are the only ones left after Superman is like turned evil.
00:18:37
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's executed poorly. I mean, I remember saying a long time ago, after the latest Batman and Superman movies had kind of flopped, saying like, in the DC universe, the villains are kind of the interesting characters. I mean, Batman's rogues gallery, I've always felt are more interesting characters than Batman himself. And I think when I first heard they were like adapting suicide squad to movies and games, I was like, yeah, I've always been saying that those are the dudes that have the interesting struggles in life.
00:19:05
Speaker
I mean, because, you know, if you're watching a superhero team up, you know, they're all going to be basically good guys. But if you watch something like Suicide Squad, who's going to betray the rest of the group first? It's when not if. Yeah.
00:19:19
Speaker
Yeah, that's the thing is I don't think the Suicide Squad game wasn't one that was doomed from the start. Like it was in a certain world that could have been a really interesting thing were it not everything that was kind of forced to be from management. Yeah, the live service bollocks. Yeah, yeah. There's a, it is interesting because like,
00:19:43
Speaker
You know, we're this train of superhero games isn't slowing down anytime in the near future like, you know, even though we've had a couple pretty notable duds recently with Marvel's Avengers and with Suicide Squad.
00:19:57
Speaker
Like the success of Spider-Man coupled with a lot of single-player superhero games are in development. We have the Wolverine game and Spider-Man 3 from Insomniac. The Monolith, the Shadows of War, Shadows of Mordor team is working on a Wonder Woman game. Arkane Leon, the Deathloop team is working on Blade. Amy Hennig's new studio is working on a Captain America and Black Panther game set during World War II.
00:20:24
Speaker
There's a solo Black Panther game by EA's new Seattle studio, Cliffhanger, and there's an Iron Man game by the Dead Space remake team at EA Mode. Those are just the announced ones.
00:20:35
Speaker
Yeah, my question would be, how much of those are actually now in development hell after the response to Suicide Squad and to Marvel's Avengers? Marvel's Avengers? I mean, the thing is, these are all our predominantly single player from studios, you know, outside of the new studios, but those new studios have pedigree, from studios who have proven that they can do, like,
00:20:57
Speaker
Like, you could kind of look at the Nemesis system and be like, oh, I understand how this could work in a Wonder Woman game using the Lasso of Truth, a Nemesis system kind of thing. You look at, like, Arkane Leon's, like, city building, what they did with Dishonored and with Deathloop, and you're like, oh, I could see that in a Blade game set in Paris. Like, that sounds kind of fucking cool, where at night, all the Vampies come out during the day, you're just, I don't know, eating croissants and slashing shit.
00:21:22
Speaker
Yeah. I suppose, you know, we're talking about how like the average protagonist in any video game is basically a super powered person. What in that case, what differentiates a superhero from one of those is that to me, a superhero is someone who says, I'm right.
Superheroes and Moral Society
00:21:38
Speaker
I'm right. And what I do is right by virtue of me doing it because I'm a superhero. And I think that's what triggers the cynicism of a lot of people. Thoughts is like almost a
00:21:51
Speaker
Is it like a fascist worldview of being like, well, I am like judge, jury and executioner because I have these powers.
00:21:58
Speaker
Well, I didn't say fascist, someone in the superchats did. I'm sure we'll get to that. But yeah, I mean, that's what that's the whole thing. Watchmen was examining, like self self appointed vigilantes sort of lead to sort of breakdown of moral society. There's a reason why they need to be there's a reason why they need to be checks and balances and, you know, fair trials.
00:22:24
Speaker
Didn't? Wasn't that one of the runs of the Superman comics where he's gotten into a set that he is right? And so society had to deal with the backlash of that. Like Superman with an ego. Yeah, I don't know. See, you were riffing off these superhero games, and I was here going, all those excite me more than, say, if someone announced a Superman game. Just this.
00:22:45
Speaker
And we've gone like, is it those writing, right? Is it just hard to give a character like this morality because he is so like this, this is just Superman. Like imagine there's the backlash of like, okay, one, I found Superman boring, or two, this isn't what Superman would do. He would never, he could never, he would never do such a thing. I mean, who can say that? I mean, the Superman and Batman both have been written by so many different writers over the years.
00:23:11
Speaker
You could interpret it however you want, really. Well, what's that like classic graphic that shows like an example of a bat version of Batman that could fit into all nine of the D&D alignment? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I love this. So they've got like, Adam West, Batman in lawful good. And they got like, that man in chaotic evil. Right.
00:23:33
Speaker
It's funny cuz I almost feel like when I when I think of like what superhero would would make an interesting game I don't start from their story. I start from their mechanics Yes, I'm like, what would mechanically be interesting? I just don't think Superman would be mechanically interesting like those ones We mentioned that are coming up blade could be mechanically interesting black panther mechanically interesting Wonder Woman mechanically interesting in the same way Batman and spider-man are but like I
00:23:56
Speaker
Man, I don't, like with Superman, I just don't, like, it's hard to wrap your head around, like, at certain points, does it just turn into, like, Asura's Wrath? Which is QTEs of you doing, like, bigger and more bombastic fights, which, I don't know, maybe I'll do that. He struggled. He struggled. If you want Superman, go into Minecraft, go into creative, and just fly around, dick around, nothing can hurt you, you can break everything.
00:24:17
Speaker
Yeah it just becomes a far too fundamental it's like no clip mode right answer your god mode on in any game you already play and say well that was cool for five minutes. Yeah what is this good.
00:24:29
Speaker
Yes. What if you did something like showed how it was a struggle from Superman's perspective? Like for an outside perspective, you see Superman, he just sort of, he's just like a blur for a few seconds and then everyone falls down. What if you like switched from his perspective and it went into like a slow motion mode and you had to like punch these dudes in exactly the right way. And it's like some kind of arduous process of like arranging things in the correct order. And then he's like, it's also the effect.
00:24:57
Speaker
Yeah, or the idea of...
00:25:01
Speaker
You don't need to master the controls to deal more damage. You need to master the controls in the systems to pull your punches. Because Superman's whole thing is he needs to use only 1% of his power or else he's gonna fucking kill everyone in one hit. You gotta keep a very close eye on everyone's health bars. Yeah, you need to enter more intricate commands and a better flow to have softer punches, which almost seems like an anti-action game.
00:25:28
Speaker
And if you combine that with my slow motion idea, that could be interesting. Like a superhero game where you have to use the exact right sequence of attacks, keeping in mind the damage that they do, to get their health within a sort of range where they're incapacitated but they're not permanently crippled or dead.
00:25:46
Speaker
I started replaying or playing for the first time Pokemon Black, which was like a DS Pokemon game. And that is the closest I feel to be like when you try to catch a Pokemon, you're like, I need to beat the shit out of you, but not kill you. Like I need to beat the shit out of you so you have this much health left so I could throw a Pokemon to capture you. But then you like hit them too hard. You're like, oh, no, I've killed it. What have I done?
00:26:11
Speaker
Yeah, someone in the chat mentions, uh, fix the wifi in the chat says, take out the bad guy by whatever means necessary, but minus points for environmental damage. Yeah. Like sort of don't make cry assessment system where at the end of the fight, uh, the points based on how, how right your actions were as a superhero. See, and that also feels like when I went back to Superman as a series of moments, as opposed to a cohesive big open world thing, that almost feels like
00:26:40
Speaker
What you're getting down to is like a puzzle game almost, like that John Wick Hacks game, where like here's the scenario and US Superman need to go through it with as literal collateral damage slash death as possible. Which I like. Which also, it seems, it's kind of a bummer to me that like in this,
00:27:01
Speaker
modern wave of superhero games where we've gotten stuff like the Guardians of the Galaxy game and Marvel's Avengers and even Marvel's Ultimate Alliance coming back, that we've never leaned on seeing what indie devs could do, like what a smaller game could do. Or even when you look at a 2D action, quick action platformer like
00:27:22
Speaker
like, uh, Sinabi or like, uh, uh, Katana Zero. Like, how come we've never gotten like a Marvel game of that scale or a DC game of that scale? Um, you know, it feels like it's always like swing for the fences or it's just a mobile thing, like Marvel snap. Well, you gotta be on a grand scale. That's, that's just superheroes in general, isn't it?
00:27:47
Speaker
Yeah, but like, I don't know, just like a superhero, just like a simple Metroidvania, a 2D Metroidvania, like...
00:27:52
Speaker
Well, that's Arkham Asylum, isn't it? Yeah. It's sort of a Metroidvania. Yeah, yeah, but like, just smaller. I don't know, just these smaller, like, when I think of the John Wickhacks or the Tron game that came out, I'm like, I wish you could give, like, I guess those were both Biffle games, but like, give smaller teams with interesting ideas a chance to, like, take a very focused stab at a superhero concept and, like, take a specific superhero to where you could really, like,
00:28:20
Speaker
Let's just explore their power through an interesting single mechanic. I've got it. I've got it. Francis got it. I figured it. This could have saved the Wii. All right. It's Superman arm wrestling champion of the universe where you're just, you're in VR and you're just arm wrestling stronger and stronger dudes. And you might fail, but that's the thing. If Superman does lose, it shouldn't cost him everything. It's that's when people are like, no, he has to win. So it's like, what if it's just an arm wrestling thing? He seems to be humbled a little bit.
00:28:50
Speaker
But then there's also moral dilemmas, right? So like you're going to take on this other guy and he's like, man, everyone goes hungry. You're my galaxy. Yeah. What have your opponent did to make a wish kid with cancer? Exactly. Is he really going to beat that kid at arm wrestling? Like would you? Suck it.
00:29:08
Speaker
There you go. I've made the perfect Superman game. It is difficult. You have to... When you were talking about smaller scale superhero games, I was suddenly reminded of the fact that playing Shadows of Doubt reminded me of playing a game where you play as Raw Shark from Watchmen. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. Especially the way we did it. He killed a man with... What was it? He killed several men. You! You killed a man with bread in Shadows of Doubt! You killed a man with bread! That's very Raw Sharky, isn't it? Yeah.
00:29:36
Speaker
He was all about improvising weaponry from his environment. Including his lunch. He literally like blinds a policeman with pepper in the Watchmen comics. What I'm getting from this.
00:29:55
Speaker
writing's difficult for, you know, a character that is right. And then two, the mechanics are difficult because he kind of just is so damn strong. Like from a technical aspect, I just think Superman's, the power creep is way, going to forgive me one where he's back in time and he is playing as that.
00:30:14
Speaker
old cartoon Superman where sometimes a laser puts him down to his knees but he gets back up. I want him to feel that struggle. I think he's just way too strong now. You can adapt the old Smallville TV series, have him not quite awakened to his powers and have him develop over the course of the game.
00:30:32
Speaker
Oh, look at that. And then in the end, he finally gets the whole outfit. He's huge and he just flies around through hoops. Like, that's great. That's your new game plus mode. You just do everything. You get the cape. Well, at the end of the day, Superman doesn't really work for me because he is the embodiment of privilege. By a random quirk of fate, he's got superpowers and not because he had to work for them or anything.
00:30:59
Speaker
And he was also privileged enough to have a happy home life with the family that loved him. And have a decent job in the city when he grew up.
00:31:07
Speaker
I don't like him because he's all hard, too dense. If he really knew what was going on in this world, he would equate billionaires, evil, and just snap Lex Luthor's neck and then we're all good. Probably go after Batman. Oh, he's too nice. He lives a really nice life and therefore he thinks everyone could be redeemed. Oh my goodness. I just think he'd be really poor working for a newspaper. I think we need, it's just a couple who works for a newspaper and newspapers do not pay a lot of money. So I think we need to discuss the fact that
00:31:37
Speaker
I always got to know it's like he's ever living in Swallow. Like he should have roommates in Metropolis working like a 40 K job at the newspaper. He should have roommates. Wasn't there a period in Superman canon where he was upgraded to being a TV news presenter? I don't remember this. Cause I think like a lot of people had similar thoughts to you that that was sort of the more prestige news thing than papers at that point. Hmm.
00:32:05
Speaker
The most prestigious thing is to be a podcaster. Yes, these days. Nothing's more prestigious than that.
00:32:11
Speaker
I mean, that's kind of literally what they did in Spider-Man 2, isn't it? Mary Jane, at the end of the game, becomes a podcaster. Yeah, exactly. It's like putting out her version of cereal or whatever. I hate it all. I hate it all. Before we jump into comments and word from our sponsor again, is there a, if not even necessarily a Superman game, is there a developer you think you'd want to see take a crack at a superhero?
00:32:40
Speaker
I don't know if you really think of games like that, but is there like a proven team where you're like, ooh, that could be interesting. Like I played, playing Control by Remedy. I'm always like, this could be like, I'm very happy that Remedy is seemingly very successful in their own cinematic universe they've created. But like you play that and you're like this, like, I can see like Remedy making like a trippy Doctor Strange game or, or, or, you know, really kind of digging into one of those weird superheroes.
00:33:07
Speaker
It's a weird question to ask, because I've played plenty of good superhero games by good developers. I like the Insomniac Spider-Man games. I like the infamous and prototype. I liked, yeah, Control, where you play as a character with superpowers. Did you ever play the X-Men Legends or Marvel Ultimate Alliance games, the ones that were kind of just like mindless Diablo top-down? Yeah, I've played Ultimate Alliance 2, I think.
00:33:31
Speaker
Yeah, as you say, it was perfectly, perfectly acceptable. Turn your brain off. Top down grind up the random MOOC sort of game. Yep. A lot of MOOCs. Whoever made Sonic, I want them to make a flash game. Yuji Naka, once he gets out of jail. Oh, it's going to be a while. All right. Superchats time. Before we go to Superchats, Eric, can you deliver a word from our wonderful sponsor, please?
00:34:02
Speaker
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00:34:28
Speaker
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00:34:57
Speaker
So, starting the Superchats with David Rieder, who gives $10 and says, I think there needs to be a return to the more classical style of fairy tale-esque heroes. Ones like Koochulain, Tamlin, Beowulf, or Gilgamesh. Less secret identities, more wandering heroism.
00:35:14
Speaker
See, that's interesting. Those are personas you can get in persona. God, I fucking knew you'd say that. Please. Sadie's the game. As I say, like superheroes are sort of the agents of the status quo. They stick in one city, they enforce the law, they work with the police. But yeah, like the wandering hero is an entirely different thing. If someone who just stumbles upon problems rather than goes looking for them.
00:35:39
Speaker
in more classic sense, uh, in more like mainstream sense, someone like the man from no man, the man from no name, the Clint Eastwood Westerns. Yeah. Yeah. Like, uh, even like Mandalorian and they've kind of pulled from that lone wolf and cub thing. Wolverine is a superhero. You could do that. Like he's always just smoking stogies and going from place to place. Yeah. And the civil war and the world wars. Yeah. Yeah. It's the difference between going out looking for trouble and, uh,
00:36:09
Speaker
Just troubles, just troubles that sort of randomly happen. I feel like if you go to Density's Row and you fall into trouble in each one, maybe you're the problem, right? Like if you meet three assholes in a day, maybe you're the asshole. That kind of thing. No, maybe you're just playing Yakuza. A lot of assholes falling from trees. I would like more mythological games like these. I don't think we're going to get them, but it would be cool to play like a Beowulf game that isn't just based on that shitty Beowulf movie. Oh, it was all right.
00:36:35
Speaker
Classic mythical heroes were a lot more morally bankrupt, a little bit more amoral. Oh my God. I mean, as I recall, like the classic epics, like the Greek epics and like the Norse stories, they liked to focus on characters, you know, taking what they wanted for themselves, like being individually empowered, which usually meant sitting all over everyone they ran into.
00:37:02
Speaker
So I'm down for it. Just the entire concept of these fairy tale-esque kind of things. It's sort of like, whoa, why don't we see more book adaptations? How about instead just mythology adaptations, right? Well, these days, there's a lot of those, but it's always either Greek or Norse. I hope you like Greek or Norse mythology because there's fucking everyone who drops those. Yeah, no problem.
00:37:25
Speaker
Well, Liza P. will open the door for all of our literary adaptations. It's fine. There you go. Look forward to a Pollyanna adaptation. Pollyanna, but with a samurai sword. Hell yeah. Dr. Theo gets $5 and says, as a kid, my number one pick for a superhero was Cole from infamous, because I literally didn't consume any other superhero media besides the Incredibles. Well, Cole was only a hero half the time.
00:37:53
Speaker
The Incredibles was such a great game until you had to play as Dash. That was interesting. You got to swap between characters. Now you're super strong. Imagine if you could limit Superman to only being able to do one thing at a time. Your cooldown gives Superman cooldowns. Yeah, there it is. Give him cooldowns.
00:38:15
Speaker
Wesley Thomas gives five Canadian dollars and says, just like with sex drugs and rock music, I don't like stroke wasn't allowed to enjoy superhero media. So nobody else would be allowed to either. Perfect. Is that a dig at me and my attitude Wesley Thomas? Well, were you not allowed sex or drugs or rock music? I'm not saying nobody's allowed to enjoy superheroes. I'm just saying if you are you're probably a little bit mentally stunted. What?
00:38:39
Speaker
Drugs? What? What's so controversial about saying that? No, I didn't hear you. I wasn't. I didn't. If you like superheroes, you're mentally stunted. Oh. We play video games. We're all mentally stunted. I don't think so. Maybe the ones you play. I play fucking Tello's Principal 2, bitch. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. He plays New York Times like he actually does. What are you reviewing this week? What am I playing? Oh, yeah, Banishes. I'm doing... Oh, no, not Banishes. I was trying to think I had to scout on boats. Sorry. Yes.
00:39:08
Speaker
I don't know. I think it is like every other medium. They all have their fans, but the ones who fan more than the fans, they're just a lot closer to Al-Qaeda than nothing else. That's total. The overall thing, just be overly cautious of someone who makes their entire personality about any one thing. Yeah, exactly.
00:39:31
Speaker
Uh, Jackson Jewel, also in the Green Gang for three months. Thank you so much. Two Martys and one Yahtzee. None of them correct. Yeah, there was a little mix up in the names at the start. You were both Marty and I was Yahtzee. Oh, wow. Wow. What a world winner. Eric. What a world winner. Eric, you did fine. You've done so well since then. Look at you playing B-roll, making goofs. You're doing great. Uh, Vojtek gives 10 US dollars and says the world is pretty cynical, but I think it's more the superhero genre has been overused in recent years.
00:40:01
Speaker
I was going to ask, is Superman now kind of like the Citizen Kane? Because he is the archetype. Has he sort of become the Citizen Kane for our, my generation? I would put it more under the heading of Mickey Mouse. Characters who don't really have any sort of story or personality behind them, but they're just sort of icons representing something. See, just because of the way you said that, I'm like, oh, I now understand Superman lovers.
00:40:29
Speaker
Yeah, because I will say the same thing to you where I'm like, he's endless optimism and you haven't seen his stories. And I see what you mean. But yes, he is just, he's just there in there. Yeah. Superman, Mickey Mouse and Mario, the triumvirate. Yeah. Cool spot. The seven up logo. Yeah. Is he better in Kingdom Hearts? What's Mickey's whole thing there?
00:40:56
Speaker
No, he's like the, you're, you're looking for him. King Mickey like gone missing. He's out there fighting evil. He's got, well, chin on his responsibilities. I think he actually secretly has like a second family that he hasn't told people about. And so that he just like kind of went off the grid cause he had to take care of that. It's got a family. Well, well, Minnie wasn't putting out. He's only human. He's only human. No, he's not. He's not. He's only a mouse. If anything, that's yeah. If anything, that makes it even more understandable.
00:41:27
Speaker
Uh, Alex Armstrong gives $5 and says, sadly, I've got nothing for today's topic. So here's a fun question. If you guys were to make your autobiographies, what would the very last line be? The end, surely. And then I took off my pants. For what a time to be alive.
00:41:43
Speaker
There you go. I would have it so that the last line cuts off in the middle, but it loops back to the first sentence, which also started off at half. Oh, nice. I've got you trapped now reading this up. Good thinking. Jackson Jewel gives $5 and says, I don't think we're too cynical for superheroes. I think the issue is how many other characters are basically superheroes. It's just oversaturated.
00:42:06
Speaker
That's a grand point, yes. Superheroes everywhere, and if your power is the most powerful, well... Yeah, that just turns into a numbers game, doesn't it? Fucking shounen mangas saying, hi, my power level is higher than yours, what do you expect to be able to do to me? Yeah, that's if you kind of boil it down, like we get our superhero flavoring from, like I said, almost any
00:42:31
Speaker
Open world action game, open world RPG. The RPG, like, Cloud and crew feel like superheroes. The Persona gang feels like superheroes. Every Assassin and Assassin's Creed feels like a superhero.
00:42:40
Speaker
He has to be like powers of nature at this point. So imagine this now the dam breaks and he's got like these laid out pipes that he has to turn. And it's just pipe dream, but he's just trying to stop the flooding at the bottom. I like it. I like it. Yeah. Okay. We can literally do anything in a Superman game. So I might as well use any kind of gameplay at all.
00:43:04
Speaker
King and Commoner gives $5, says, I don't think the issues that the world is too cynical, it's that superheroes are. I want superheroes to be icons again. Couldn't they be an icon of cynicism, King and Commoner? Apparently not that John Cleese thing you said. There you go. The Boys is arguably one of the most
00:43:25
Speaker
the most popular superhero things right now, and that is entirely built on superheroes. The villain, the Homelander, has attracted a sort of weird fan base. Yeah. And the show even directly shows that, that he shows his true colors and his base likes him even more. Yeah. Now that's cynicism. Yeah. Fox D gives $2 and says, Superman is fascism's enforcer. Oh, no.
00:43:53
Speaker
Hashtag not my Superman. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't vote for him. I didn't vote for him. Imagine if every four years we had to vote for who would get super powers. Yeah. And that person had to save everyone from natural disasters for the next four years. Do you think they would? Or would it get retracted if you don't fulfill your duties?
00:44:17
Speaker
Well, does the presidency get... Does the presidency get retracted if you disappoint people? You'd never be able to have a president for more than a week. I know, because, you know, immediately you'd take my powers away from me again, I'll just laser vision you to death. Yeah, it'd be a horrible procedure. You'd need to have some kind of auto-pack of The Escapists. We did one or two episodes of Weeb Shit.
00:44:37
Speaker
which is where Jesse, Casey and I, I think got together and we just, we made like a little video essay about some anime. We were like, uh, long story short, yes, we are, um, in, in plans to relaunch, uh, an entertainment podcast, uh, heavily featuring Darren Mooney. And through that kind of thing, we will have avenues for various conversations, including weeb shit.
00:45:00
Speaker
You know, a little distracted, because I've been trying to think of, like, what book to write next, now that, uh, Galaxy for Food's gonna be done. And I was thinking of doing something like a take-off of the superhero genre. And suddenly the whole concept of society having to develop a superhero by lottery system to make it seem fair, suddenly the whole of that idea has intrigued me. You've just made Caesar. Or a superhero by democratic vote. I feel like we're just getting close to purging. Are we in purge territory now?
00:45:31
Speaker
No. Well, hunting power to a random person isn't a million miles away from Purge territory, I suppose. Oh my God, we're living the Purge life, that Purge nightmare. Yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think of like things where, like, there's been superhero stories about where like powers are commoditized and like, I mean, literally, sorry, I guess the boys has that, there's that like,
00:45:58
Speaker
Serum V or whatever that like people could take and you get like a small boost of superhero powers for a little while like PED forms the dancing drug
00:46:11
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, superhero logic always seems to focus on how one single person was able to get powers a certain way and never really explores the concept of sort of industrializing the process. Oh, Christ. That's just Tinkerbell, isn't it? Like, you have to believe in me. You know, that's, that is just, yeah, if they don't believe I don't exist. Yeah. Tinkerbell. Wow. All right.
00:46:39
Speaker
Well, moving on from Tinkerbell. Matthew C. Snog is 4.99 US and says, personally, I'm thinking Superman is great when he goes full firefighter and has to juggle dealing with Lex while a goddamn volcano goes off. Oh, that's good.
00:46:57
Speaker
Have you all those people who shouldn't have built their houses under an active volcano in the first place? But it's right next to the giant rock he's going to put on top of it. Yeah, exactly. It was fine. I do like the idea of like an altruistic Superman where it's less about fighting and more about solving problems and stopping disasters. And I think the real problem with that concept is prioritization. I mean, considering all the global disasters, which one do you do first?
00:47:25
Speaker
Yeah. What if, actually, the answer's right under our nose and it is a post-dad game Superman, where he is just kind of fixing up the world to be a save a volcano? Sure. But in that very power-wash simulated kind of way. Like just, yeah, like, and like there's an exploding dam and he just has to very carefully and laboriously put all the rocks back in place. Yeah, on the job. Yeah. On the job, Superman.
00:47:52
Speaker
He's just power washing the entire earth. And he goes home and writes it up for the paper. Anyway. Fox D gives $2 and says Superman 64 was just a worse pilot wings. Thank you for your very uncontroversial comment. I liked pilot wings. Bring back pilot wings.
00:48:19
Speaker
King and Commoner comes back with five bucks and says, honestly, a Telltale-style Superman game might be the way to go. Have it be about the decisions a nigh-omnipotent being has to make. Let me try it with Batman, right? Did you ever play the Batman and Telltale game? No. Because Telltale games are just sort of... choose your own adventure games where you don't really change anything with your decision. Yeah, and by that point they were kind of spinning their wheels and... There's more, yeah. Choose your own adventure and then at the end see who picked choices like you.
00:48:49
Speaker
Yeah. More of a personality test really. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be interesting. Like a, almost a, like a Superman, like a twine game, like choose your own adventure lesson. Um, that style, but more of like an ankle game. Like if you've ever played 80 days or even, um, a Highland song recently where it's kind of meant to be replayed and you can see where the adventure takes you. Hmm.
00:49:17
Speaker
Uh, Alex Armstrong gives $10 and says, love your semi-rambulamatic on tutorial levels. What thoughts on optional tutorials at the start that includes story stroke character development, like Witcher 3 or Gears of War 2, where you're training a rookie? Well, that's sort of somewhere between the two options, between the integrated tutorial and the separate tutorial level. And, uh, yeah, they're fine. They're fine.
00:49:44
Speaker
That's a roaring recommendation. They all have, they have, every option has its pros and cons. Depends what you're trying to do. You said you were mad you didn't remember the Tomb Raider one before you wrote that script, right? Because you're reminded of it, I'm assuming, when you did the stream. Yeah. Yeah. I was annoyed because the kick going back to like the same three examples. Yeah. Yeah. And then like, oh shit. Yeah. Tomb Raider had one. Yeah.
00:50:12
Speaker
Anyway, fun with despair gives 10 Canadian dollars and says I'd rather just have original superpower characters without costumes and superhero tropes. Liked infamous. Couldn't care less about Insomniac's Spider-Man. Something about superheroes bores me. But he swings round. Web singing's great. Good stuff. But yeah, if it was another character that was just called something else but it was the exact same swinging, I'd be dumb.
00:50:34
Speaker
I only liked prototype that we were just this one random dude in a jacket who could run up buildings and create like horrible death tentacles from his body. I like prototype too. I feel like that would just be tethered to an IP now, right? That would just be a Venom game.
00:50:54
Speaker
really liked prototypes aspect where you just sort of hid among the crowd until you pulled out the disaster guns. Yeah. I love that one power you could unlock, where you'd made the military so paranoid, where you could just disguise yourself as a soldier and grab another soldier's gun and do a little wrestle with it, and then push them away. So it's him. It's the it's the shapeshifter. Then everyone guns him down. That's great.
00:51:19
Speaker
Pass my pass. That's so good. Hi Toffee. Oh, look at Toffee. More powers instead of the actual characters though. That's a great, that's a good idea. Yeah. Squirtle Squad 420 gives 10 US dollars and says, I'm surprised a good Iron Man game hasn't been made. Seems like a good option for power scaling stroke gearing, creating several play styles, depending on what kind of suit you put together. You should play the Robocop game. Squirtle Squad 420, there's a bit of that.
00:51:46
Speaker
You move so slow. What if the guy who made Pacific Drive made an Iron Man game? So you go out. Hey, no spoilers. I'm starting Pacific Drive this afternoon. That's not a spoiler. That's the whole core concept. Okay. Of just fix the suit. It's your post ad. Maybe that's it. Superheroes are just post ad. You're just constantly tinkering with it. Yeah, I mean, because we've had in terms of Iron Man stuff, we had like a solo game, I think based on the first movie, which
00:52:13
Speaker
was pretty forgettable. And then there was that VR game that came out a little while ago, like a PSVR. I think it was just called Iron Man VR. I'm curious to see what EA Motive does, because you could play that space and kind of be like, oh, I could see something Iron Man-y here. I've heard people come out for the first Iron Man game. I guess it was better than terrible.
00:52:35
Speaker
I did. I never played that one. I played the first Captain America game based on the first movie and it is unabashedly in Arkham clone. Like everything about it is like Arkham Asylum, but it's a pretty decent one at that, so. Right. It's just Captain America fighting Nazis with Arkham combat.
00:52:55
Speaker
Does he at least do that move where he throws a shield and it bounces off five dudes and comes back? He absolutely does that. That's all I want. That's all I want. A hundred percent. You can walk into a room and like use that power and it's like fucking bonk every fool in the room. See, imagine that, right? But with Children of the Sun, so that you can redirect it or let's like angle it up properly. That's just snooker, isn't it? Yeah. That's just snooker.
00:53:16
Speaker
Yeah, you're just, exactly, you're just doing that. I guess, yeah, speaking of the sun, or sun, Midnight Suns, that was a superhero game recently that tried to do something differently. Yeah, because you could snog them as well. You could do, yeah, you could give them a big kiss. There's not enough superhero games where you get to give someone a big kiss. Life Sims post-ad games, do you think superheroes lend themselves better to cosy games? We love a cosy superhero game. Who knows? Superhero life doesn't feel very cosy.
00:53:46
Speaker
Some people find superheroes like a cozy place. Like, there's people who will read nothing but superhero comics because that's their cozy place. Yeah, I guess in the same way if you find Dark Souls cozy, cozy can be anything. Well, I think superhero writing in particular tends to be kind of cozy in its attitudes. Like, everything will be okay. The big powerful people will beat all the baddies. Yeah. It's not like Dark Souls. Sure. That's my point.
00:54:16
Speaker
Uh... Yado gives five dollars and says, in the original Superman series, he kidnapped Hitler and Stalin and dragged them to the UN. National borders be damned. This was before World War II. Yeah, see, this is another thing Watchmen commented on. The superhero interference in international politics. Yeah. Which meant the moment the super person went away, Russia immediately invades Afghanistan and starts World War III. Oh. Hmm.
00:54:42
Speaker
Opening a peanut gave us twenty dollars, and says, a Superman game like neon white where you are speedrunning saving different people from different situations within a time frame. Superman's goal to save as many people as possible but he can't be everywhere at once. Thanks guys.
00:54:55
Speaker
Yeah, again, I like that little, the idea of these little bite-sized things. Maybe that'd be more of a Flash game. Superman WarioWare. Superman WarioWare! Could you imagine it? Superman Micro Games? Yeah, like eye lasers and visions. Of course, Superman can't be everywhere at once. To want to try to be everywhere at once reflects an immature decision-making process.
00:55:19
Speaker
Superman should be working to create a society where everyone can be safe. Not just trying to individually save everyone who's in danger.
00:55:28
Speaker
In games, he could be everywhere at once if it's like real time, but you can pause, you know? I'm sort of preemptively getting defensive about the next Super Chat. Baradis gives $5 and says Yahtzee, the superhero fantasy is for empathetic people who want to help. Call that childish if you like, but it inspires people. That's the point. Yeah, Yahtzee.
00:55:51
Speaker
Yeah, it really inspires me when Superman punches Lex Luthor into orbit. I'm really inspired to go punch people into orbit from watching that. Yeah, I don't know if that does the inspiration thing still. I would say that that was an argument that held water originally. But it just feels like is the inspiration still there when the stories have been kind of told and retreading over the course of 100 years?
00:56:15
Speaker
That sounds like the fucking excuse CEOs give for their salaries. It's like, no, no, I need to inspire the workforce with my presence. I just figured it's more so like I every because I've gone to so many people saying like, he's a great guy, super optimistic. You had to read the comics. I go, OK, fine. I can give you that he is wholesome and he is good. So are vegetables. They're not all that exciting. Yeah. So I see I can understand where they're coming from. But when we're talking about games,
00:56:44
Speaker
It is about in this moment, I want to be somewhere not here, somewhere super jacked up and excited and Superman doesn't do that for me. That's sort of the basis of where I'm coming through. Storywriting in general depends upon adversity and problems.
00:57:01
Speaker
Like, One Punch Man. The whole thing was it kind of focused on everything else because he can just... Yeah. Yeah. It's about getting him there. He's just too slow, I guess. I don't know. Too unaware. Yeah. Well, the point, initially the point of One Punch Man was sort of like the comedy exploration of the character who can beat everything in One Punch and slowly sort of losing his interest in the world.
00:57:27
Speaker
But then over time, it sort of just turned into a sort of classic shounen anime thing, focusing on other characters. They even made a fucking fighting game in which, like, playing as the title character is kind of the joke character. I like that. Eh, why not? Fighting, you know, Superman in fighting games? I'll give you that. And Justice, I was for it. I was for it because you're fighting other super-powered baddies and it's not like you actually die in the end.
00:57:56
Speaker
Oh yeah, and all fighting games are kind of just like, you got to flatten everything down. Like, especially ones that bring in things from different sources, like whether it's a Smash Bros or Marvel vs. Capcom or Injustice, it's kind of like an agreed upon flattening of power levels so that it makes sense that Harley Quinn can fight.
00:58:13
Speaker
Superman or that fucking Jill Valentine can fight Thanos. The first Injustice game, they made up some bollocks about a super pill everyone was taking that gave them all Superman level abilities. In the second Injustice game, they kind of stopped bothering to bring that up. It's just like it's a fighting game. It's fine.
00:58:32
Speaker
Yeah, but like I almost need that contextualization and that works better for me even if it is just like these truck stop boner pills that I mean, just give everyone in the world a truck stop boner pill and then Superman is immediately neutralized. Sure we go. Yeah. Now he's just man, not super man with a raging heart. It's like syndromes plan from the Incredibles. Yeah, when everybody's super. No one will be.
00:59:00
Speaker
Ahem, where was I? I've always wondered if that was a thing. Yeah, I mean, in Silent Hill 2, as I recall, on PS2, the kind of attack you did depending on how hard you pressed the button. Yeah, yeah. Metal Gear Solid 3 was the same thing.
00:59:27
Speaker
Yeah, you can do it with the pressure-sensitive triggers now. You can do a similar thing. Like, if you play on PS5, you can see that the triggers provide feedback and everything. Yeah, I mean, we do that with walking already, don't we? And you have to push the analog stick in a little bit to walk. Yeah. I've been walking in real life. Yeah. Yeah, me too. Yeah. If I think about walking too much, I'm just going to fall over. You know, this is going to go well. Quapping around. Quapping around!
00:59:54
Speaker
Alex Armstrong gives $2 and says, Oh, wait, I know a good non cynical hero, Deadpool. I think he's very cynical. I will question calling him a hero. I mean, that gets us into like, I mean, in the world of superheroes, there's sort of this obligation to sort of decide if you're on if you're going to be a superhero or a supervillain. I feel like in real life, there'd be a lot of people who sort of bridge the gap. Yeah.
01:00:20
Speaker
I feel like there would be a lot of people in the world these days if we were handing out superpowers who would consider themselves to be superheroes, but would, in practice, be supervillains. Oh, I see where you're going with this. Okay. There was that Deadpool game as well. Yeah, but he wasn't doing much heroic in it. Heroic? Yeah, I think superhero is kind of the catch-all term for protagonist of a superhero story. Yeah. All the Suicide Squad superheroes.
01:00:50
Speaker
a catch-all term. Honestly, yeah, that works. Oh, yep, I love this. He's just slapping Wolverine away. Yeah. I kind of liked how the James Gunn Suicide Squad movie sort of played with that idea with the polka dot man character. Yeah. How he dies literally screaming, I'm a superhero now. Yeah.
01:01:13
Speaker
Um, John honor gives five Canadian dollars and says 2d black widow game like mark of the ninja could have made five for what it costs to make suicide squad maybe more. Sure, that's that was fine. That sounds great. Yeah, that's
01:01:28
Speaker
And I feel like there's like a hundred indie games I could look at and be like, that you could easily, that could have a blank skin and that could totally work. Tetris, he says. Yeah, Tetris would just be- I was trying to, all these asteroids are falling on Earth and I need to put- I gotta figure out where to put them. Really nice positions or they won't go away. Yeah, so. Baradis gives $5, says, as a former newspaper man, the salaries aren't great, but it is a good job if you wanted to help people like Superman, a fantasy of helping.
01:01:59
Speaker
I feel like working in a hospital I feel like would be a more like hands-on helping, right? Yeah. Like I feel like he'd be like a good surgeon or a nurse. He could like look and be like, oh, I know what the problem with his, their guts are all tangled up. I could see inside. Yeah. Testicular torsion. Yeah. I mean, fighting crime is one thing. It's like how like Dr. House is supposed to be Sherlock Holmes if he was a doctor.
01:02:24
Speaker
Yeah, that using his incredible powers of deduction to fix people's bodily problems rather than fight crime. Yeah. That's not bad. Ryan Steadman. I know you probably get this a lot, Ryan, but I think your parents spelled your first name wrong. That gives $10 and says the question I have is when did the power fantasy change from fantasizing about doing good to doing bad? Or has it changed at all? No, not wanting to do good is not the same as doing bad.
01:02:55
Speaker
But the only thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing. Sure, but I like having that choice. Because that's just the point of humans. It's all free will. If, you know, like Witcher. There you go. He can't. Yeah, evil can happen. Good can happen. I can do good, but I can feel like there's a weight to the good that I do. If you do good because you feel you're good, are you really doing good?
01:03:22
Speaker
Well, if you, yeah, I mean, uh, I guess the really pure charitable thing would be to do good and then not tell anyone you've done good. Yeah. There's an argument that all like charitable selfless acts are rooted in a self preservation. It's been, it's been observed in nature that, uh, uh, some animals exhibit like selfless behavior as a way of enforcing their own superiority in the pack.
01:03:55
Speaker
Instead though, I guess going back to the question, I don't think the power fantasy hasn't completely changed to doing bad. I still, arguably the most popular superhero in the world is still Spider-Man, who embodies that wholesome demeanor and then
01:04:18
Speaker
Has there ever been a Spider-Man turns evil? I don't have a Venom, right? That's simple. Well, that doesn't really count. That's just, you know... It turned emo evil. That's evil twin. No, I mean, I think that feels like that's the most... Is there like a... Is there like another world's... A Marvel, else world's thing where Spider-Man is evil? I mean, a little, like the... Into the Spider-Verse movies have like, there's like a million Spider-Man in one of them, the...
01:04:47
Speaker
the Spider-Man 2099 or whatever kind of realizes that bad things have to happen in order to, like the loss of one is not as important if it means saving a million kind of thing. Well, all right. Yeah. Well, anyway, Fox D gives $2 and says retracting the president is a Praetorian guard job. Yeah. Where are you these days, Praetorian guard?
01:05:14
Speaker
Jake the Sneaky Geek gives $9.99, says, I wonder if anybody will pick up the mantle for DC now that Rocksteady dropped the ball and then lit it on fire. I mean, we're still... Well. I mean, we're getting that Wonder Woman game, in theory, from Monolith. Yeah, it's not Rocksteady, it's Warner Brothers. Warner Brothers are the parent organization for all this. Yeah. So, who knows? Rough Nick gives five US dollars.
01:05:43
Speaker
and says, screw being special with cool powers, give me characters who are weak and relatable, who have to exist around a bunch of super freaks. My boy wants to play Sky High the video game. I would absolutely play a Sky High video game. Oh my god. Well, I was thinking Sky Dude wants to play Arthur Dent in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
01:06:06
Speaker
Oh, I like that. That'd be kind of cool. Just because like a random every dude, just sort of having to navigate weird sci-fi fantasy world. Genuine fish out of water. Yeah. Bob Roland also been a member for two months. Thank you so much. Bob asks for Marty, what started, did you pick in Pokemon black? I picked Tepig, the cute fire pig. He's great. Fire starter. Nice. Fire starter. Yeah. Cute little pig. Tepig. Tepig. Tepig.
01:06:34
Speaker
I would tip it isn't really a very fiery word is it just means slightly warmer than normal room temperature isn't it? Yeah that's his first form. You just wait until he grows up. I don't know what he's doing. He hasn't evolved yet so I don't know what he's gonna be.
01:06:53
Speaker
Trying to think of a fire pun related to pigs. It's like temperature. Roasters. Yeah, spit roast. There you go. No, not that kind. John Fu gives two euros and says, yes, Monster Munch or Space Raiders? Monster Munch all the way, John Fu. Space Raiders, they sell for like 10p a bag at the corner shop. Monster Munch is in action. No, it's a maze based snacks.
01:07:21
Speaker
Oh, that kind of makes corn. All right. Gotcha. Yeah. I thought it was like a snack, but you just saw the puzzle first. Yeah. I was like, there's a puzzle on the back of it. No wonder he likes it. I get through elaborate. Yeah. And I just like in America, snacks don't really do that. Like the corn snack. We have corn snacks. Oh, let me tell you, Shawshank just dropped a Tepig's evolutions and they're very good. Pig night.
01:07:45
Speaker
as in like Ignite or the pig. And then Embor, Ember, but a boar. Very good. Well done Pokemon company. Those are solid fire and pig related puns. Fire pore sign puns.
01:08:03
Speaker
Uh, Eito Urobari gives 500 arses his usual amount. And says Superman is privileged, but that's the point. He could literally be a god, yet he spends the time to stop some random guy from jumping off a building. In the early days he fought the KKK and corrupt bankers. It wasn't about a superpowered show-off.
01:08:19
Speaker
Yeah, well, counterpoint 100 million other stories where he is being a god, Eita or a berry, that's what we're saying. Superman's been written like a million different times, a million different stories from every possible angle. You can't just point to one, like, handful of stories and say, this is how he's supposed to be. Sure, yeah.
01:08:39
Speaker
A very dark, very scary game where Superman drinks because he can't stop people from jumping off of bridges and he can't save them all. And every time he misses, like, just barely the quick time event goes through and you see the anguish in Superman's face. Nah.
01:08:56
Speaker
I don't even know, could he even drink? Like, it's probably not impossible. It'd be like Captain America, right? Where he heals too fast. Yeah. You have to drink petrol or something. Just go out and suck on tankards. He's got alien biology. I mean, the yellow sun gives him powers. He probably gets drunk for, I don't know, eating buttercups. Yeah. There you go.
01:09:22
Speaker
Robonobthesnob gives 23.99 and says, I'd love a game with a superhero in their old age. Superman dealing with ineffective superpowers, or using them too much through the game could make them weaker and weaker. All this as he sees the world he's leaving behind. Oh my god, imagine his laser vision just flopping down in old age. Sorry, this doesn't usually happen.
01:09:46
Speaker
Yeah, just trying to like, I feel like we've had Batman, old man Batman, we've had old man Logan with Wolverine. I could fuck with old man Superman. Would you want that in a video game then? I'm trying to think of the last time I played a video game where the main character's an old fart.
01:10:03
Speaker
I guess maybe. Uh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I went for the oldest. I could think of, you know, he's like rapidly deteriorating. And so he's like back hurts all the time. It's great.
01:10:21
Speaker
spots while he's trying to steal the round yeah uh red dead redemption 2 playing as arthur you kind of feel like you're playing an old fart yeah he has he hasn't gone enough isn't like 60 and the last of us yeah and then he then he dies of a disease at the end yeah sorry very old man vibes arthur morgan
01:10:46
Speaker
Alex Armstrong gives $5 and says, how about a book about superpowers given by a lottery and the Batag's power is so useless it can't help them through the plot, like holes in visibility? I do have a sort of, I do have fun thinking of like superpowers that would be useless in like interesting ways. Like, like invisibility that only works while you're screaming at the top of your voice.
01:11:07
Speaker
Sure. Well, usually it just, oh my God, nevermind.
Superhero Game Ideas
01:11:11
Speaker
I was going to say, uh, it was like in the, in the enemies where it goes, your lack of your shit power is actually the strongest power that there is like black clovers. Yeah. Your lack of magic means you can steal people's magic. But not that scream and go invisible. That's that's good. I love that. And I had an idea for a character who had the power to control machines or the power to communicate with machines, but they all inexplicably hate him.
01:11:38
Speaker
Oh, poor guy. Why do they all hate him? They just don't like him putting on airs, thinking he can like, sidle into their turf and talk to them like an equal. I respect that. That's good. I think you can talk to me like an equal.
01:11:56
Speaker
Yeah, where's your oil vent, asshole? Aesora Bari gives 200 arses and says, also there's a lot of variety in superheroes. Martian Manta could make a great stealth stroke detective game. Plastic Man's Powers could make for an interesting puzzle solving mechanic. Flash could be in a super hot light game. Yeah, any superhero in any game could make a fun game. It depends on the designer. You're just listing games now. What would Lucas Pope make for a superhero game?
01:12:25
Speaker
Oh, something that's in some way turns a bureaucratic process into a really engaging story. He plays the calculator in the DC universe, who's like the sort of supervillain version of Oracle. Oh, or there was the, there's like the group that collateral damage or something, there's like a group that has to do cleanup after superheroes.
01:12:53
Speaker
Just like you just get the power watch simulator devs to do that. Yeah. But there's like, what is it like to work in like a bureaucracy where you have to clean up New York after the Battle of New York? Oh, what if they made you clean it? You have to save the town, but any destruction you cause you have to fix. You have to break it, you buy it? Yeah. A little wind down in between battles.
01:13:17
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, some people might prefer that you, like, wind down, reconstruct things gameplay, so they deliberately destroy everything to do more of it. And if you don't like it, you'll understand what it's like to be a superhero of, like, dear God, and I have to hold back my punch, otherwise I'll send this guy flying through, and now I've destroyed the wall.
Superheroes as Villains Trope
01:13:33
Speaker
Oh, damn, I have to put a load of bricks into this person-shaped hole in this wall. Yeah, there you go.
01:13:42
Speaker
Uh, J. Greenlee gives ten dollars and says superheroes as bad guys stroke the reverse has gotten old. Writers have overcomplicated the simplistic nature of them. We know it's ridiculous, treat it seriously and so will we. Also hire better writers.
01:13:55
Speaker
I'm with that too, as much as, uh, I wouldn't take it seriously if it was treated seriously. I didn't take Batman V Superman seriously. And that was like as po-phased as it gets. I don't think treating it seriously is like, that's not a good or a bad thing. It's
01:14:13
Speaker
You could treat it seriously and do it terribly, or you can treat it goofily and do it terribly. I agree with you that superheroes are inherently a very simplistic idea, and it's kind of a mistake to sort of mature them up into ultra-violent, gritty adult films. I'm with them. Yes, I believe the reverse and the bad guys, now that's going to become the... Maybe it's just the cycle. We're becoming so cynical that it's time for Superman, something to be optimistic in all the systems.
01:14:41
Speaker
I have a related theory that I call the financial dragon theory. It states that the way popular culture depicts dragons is an indicator of the state of the financial economy worldwide. Okay. Right.
01:14:58
Speaker
Because if we, if popular culture tends to see dragons as, like, wealth-hoarding bastards, the economy is doing poorly. But if we treat dragons as sort of friendly, like, allies to humanity, it shows the Academy's doing well. Why if they've gone very seductively? Like the Hobbit, Smaug, hoarding all the wealth in the world, came out around the time of the Great Depression.
01:15:24
Speaker
The most economically optimistic period in the 20th century was in the post-war 60s reconstruction era, and that was around when Puff the Magic Dragon came out. Ooh, look at him. What's that say of Dark Souls and its crotch-ridden dragons?
01:15:40
Speaker
Well, we've all been living with a poor economy for quite some time.
Public Distrust and Superhero Narratives
01:15:45
Speaker
I think the interesting example is Game of Thrones treating dragons as this more sort of not quite dependable, all powerful thing. Yeah. So we understand like, the financial world has power over us, but they're also not, you know,
01:15:59
Speaker
They're not all powerful like super beings. They're just regular people who've got too much shit. And do you think that's a reflection that it can apply to Superman in that way of how you want to see him is based on what you're exposed to?
01:16:13
Speaker
It's possible, yes. I think the way we treat superheroes is based on, like, the status of the world globally. I mean, take this next super chat from Josh Knowles, who gives $5 to say, I will take the most brutal Watchmen vigilante over any cop.
01:16:29
Speaker
We are living in a probably, possibly unprecedented era of suspicion directed towards the police, at least in America. I mean, back in the day, superheroes were always friends of the cops. The cops were all like, help us Superman, Superman was you, you are the real heroes. Yeah, Batman's only partner was a cop. Yeah. Yes. But now all cops are bastards, as a well known acronym reveals. So we don't, we're suspicious of people trying to enforce the status quo.
01:16:58
Speaker
Like that. Time for a Punisher game. There have been plenty of those. Well, there's been a couple of those. There was one like, one that people tend to really like. I think it was written by Garth Ennis. There was a THQ one, at least for like the old, came out for the original Xbox era. Oh, look at that. Right on the hand. Yeah, original story by Garth Ennis and Jimmy Palmadi. Sounds very Italian.
01:17:28
Speaker
Garthenius, yeah, the writer of Preacher, who also wrote some Punisher stuff. And who himself tends to have a very cynical attitude towards superheroes in his work. And yeah, Bubba's big blast in fairness Max Payne is ostensibly a Punisher game. Agreed. If you like. I do like. Thank you.
01:17:50
Speaker
Baradis gives five dollars and says, I'll tell my eight-year-old cousin who wants to be kind and heroic like his heroes that he's mentally deficient for liking their stories. Now you can tell him he's eight years old, which he is. Let him down gently. Well, there's plenty. I feel like the positive impact that the bottom portrayals of Spider-Man or even like the rising success of Black Panther. I feel like I've been a net positive. Yeah, it's fine for like 10-year-olds to like that shit.
01:18:18
Speaker
What age can I no longer like my Spider-Man? Like the puzzle box that says 15 plus, I don't know. 38. I'm 38. We're still fine, right? 38. At 21, because then you start carrying out superheroes, then you start drinking. Drinking becomes your superpower. I'm Superman, all right. No more Captain America. It's like Captain Morgan for me. God.
Vigilante Justice Issues
01:18:48
Speaker
People just like whatever you like. Don't let me. There's no cops. We just said we hate the cops. Who cares about the taste cops? Everyone hates cops. Except when I need one to like unscrew a really tight pickle jar. I could do that. I got big manly hands. Yeah, but I, there's a tiny pickle jar. It only holds one little kuke. And you like call the police? Yes.
01:19:16
Speaker
I'm putting your tax money to good use. Yeah, they'll come over and shoot your dog if you do that. Yep. Unfortunately. You got your pickles. I got my pickle for my sandwich. Jake the Sneaker gig gives 1999 US says a game about alternate universe Batman trappings and evil Superman in a red sun powered prison cell and God knows what else and you're stuck on super pills.
01:19:38
Speaker
Oh. Well, I think Nether, you're talking about Injustice 2 there, and I just sort of have an understanding in my head now that Netherrealm shoot fighters all have really terrible writing. It's about the fighting, yeah. That's like porn. I think people like the stories of those games, right? They're passable. Well, I like them because they're really dumb.
01:20:01
Speaker
I sort of go, no, no, I thinks it's a real fifth of the story. He thinks it's people. Deception. Here I go again. The trailer starts with you as the old man. You are the cause of the deception, but the whole way here, you're like, you're stupid. You're stupid. Let's kick more ass.
01:20:20
Speaker
Alex Armstrong gives five US dollars and says, oh, all right, one more question. What about cynical protagonists who scoff at being a hero? Although the only one that comes to mind is Jim from Mogworld. That makes them like the only ones suitable now. If a person who doesn't want the power most suited. I mean, Logan from Wolverine would probably scoff at being called a hero. Am I wrong? Seems about right.
01:20:48
Speaker
Ben. Oh man, I look young in that video. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at that, the thing. Look at
01:21:04
Speaker
There you go. You're going to be buried in it. Why did you have it? Look at me. I've got so much hair. Why did you have the suit on you? I was making like a cynical, silly video about my upcoming novel. Why did you own it to begin with? I think I bought it to go to a wedding. Okay. I'm always curious because it's always like wedding or funeral.
01:21:25
Speaker
Yeah. Is this a sad suit or a happy suit? Oh, no, no, no. It wasn't
Personal Anecdotes and Pop Culture
01:21:29
Speaker
the wedding. It was the Webby Awards. That's what I bought that suit for. Even happier suit. Look at that. Yeah. Well, a gala suit. Ooh, top tier suit. They tried to fop me off with a bow tie and I was like, no, I have some dignity.
01:21:43
Speaker
I will have a silk black tie for my awards ceremony, thank you very much. That's a yellow suit, nice. Peppa Blood gives £11.99 and euros, and says, just popping in to wish all a good week, and my two cents is seeing more vigilante justice would be nice. Especially in a country with an under-equipped police and rising drug-related crime. Ireland. Where's my Robin Hood game?
01:22:05
Speaker
Well, the trouble is Vigilante Justice veers very easily into witch hunts and lynch mobs. And the Witcher. That's why we need checks and balances and all of that. Yeah, be fine to have Vigilante superheroes as long as you got two who don't like each other. And so we're constantly waiting for the other one to fuck up. Beating Vigilante superheroes? I like that. No, civilization. Yeah, that'd be checks and balances right there. Yeah, that's just a new civ game, but superheroes.
01:22:35
Speaker
There you go. Ooh, Robin Hood conquest of Longbow. There's a deep cut in your video game references. I don't even know what that is. Uh, obscure Sierra game. There was a fun video essay on it recently. I forget by who. Anyway, where was I?
01:22:59
Speaker
Neerast25 gives 25 runs and says, I really want you all to do a crossover pod with overly sarcastic productions where you talk for an hour about Superman and video games.
01:23:09
Speaker
I don't know who that is. I don't know. Great stuff. Love their work. They should do a reaction video to this podcast. Did you want Trump talk? Trope talks. Trope talks. Yeah. They've been around the internet almost as long as Yahtzee has been a mainstay. Blimey, very few people have been around as long as I, I'll say that, but you know,
01:23:36
Speaker
The internet's existed since the 70s, hasn't it? Yeah, that's like fake internet. Yeah, that's like ARPANET and all that stuff. Yeah, the military internet before it was public.
01:23:47
Speaker
But there were still arguments about Return of the Jedi on it, as I understand. I once read some old dredged up Billison board. From the 80s? From the 70s and 80s, people arguing about the Empire Strikes Back and saying, no. Dark Vader can't really be Luke's father. He was just trying to psych him out. Yeah.
01:24:09
Speaker
And lots of people liked, and all the discourse after The Turn of the Jedi came out was curiously very parallel with all the discourse after The Phantom Menace came out. Oh no. Oh no, trilogy ruined forever with the cute teddy bears. Oh, meant for children is suddenly geared towards children. Yeah. Jake, the Sneaker Geek, gives 4.99 US and says, MGS4, my favorite Metal Gear, that microwave tunnel scene. What a great tunnel scene. That's a top five tunnel scene ever.
01:24:38
Speaker
isn't that like kind of a joke though, because it's snake like trying to crawl his ruined body down this microwave tunnel for like this really long, horrible sequence. Then when he gets to the end, he doesn't do anything. Ottergon does all the work. Yeah. Little robot comes out and you're like, why didn't the robot do this all the time? And then you just appear on the top of it. And then you have your very homoerotic fistfight with your ghost brother, revolver.
01:25:04
Speaker
Otacon was the true unsung hero of MGS4. Every time we fell in love with someone, they died. He got the girl. He got to shag someone in that game. That you died. Spoilers. Yeah. That was the routine. Metal Gear is great. Hunter Roge gives 10 US dollars and says, not much to add, just want to say the best superhero game is Saints Row 4. I too enjoy Saints Row 4.
01:25:32
Speaker
Top 10 superhero games not based on superheroes. That's up there. That's a very disquieting angle on Solid Snake's bottom.
01:25:42
Speaker
Oh yeah, he's got a real thick ass in that game. In case he and I were replaying it the other year, man, that guy is just a trunk full of junk. Clap from my ass is alerting the guards. Don't be thick. Hunter Roge gives... Oh, I've done that one. Jay Greenlee gives $2 and says, seriously, as Arkham Asylum City or Knight did.
01:26:04
Speaker
by a serious game. Yeah, it's taken less like, seriously, more of just those games are also just done well. They aren't really they are. They're not realistic. No outcome games. They're stylized in a very sort of Tim Burton sort of way. Yeah. And then you sort of forgive the fact that Batman's a dude running around in his pants. That's Joel Schumacher's ways. That city. Oh, man. Crazy everywhere.
01:26:32
Speaker
But, but angled the doorways. That's very Tim Burton. Fair, fair. I'm at most of the composition of like, all right, this right here is the penguin layer right next to Harvey's thing. Right next to like, it's just all. And when you're under scarecrow gas in Arkham Asylum, the camera goes into a Dutch angle. That's how you know. Tim Burton invented the Dutch.
Generational Love for Superheroes
01:26:55
Speaker
I gotcha.
01:26:57
Speaker
Where are we? Diane Spencer gives 10 British pounds and says happy to catch one of these live. Thanks, Diane. Last five minutes of it. Jake the Sneaky Geek gives 999 US says I think it's not an age cut off. It's an era you're born in 90s and beyond. We love our superheroes. So you know, young enough that you don't remember 911. Is that what you're saying? I remember it. I just
01:27:26
Speaker
Just who you relate to? If you relate to them? Sure. Did you skip, did you skip too? Or am I insane? Extended Club and Jay Greenlee's second message? Um, oh yeah. So I did. It was that seriously in quotes that threw me off. Okay. Extended Club makes good $5. I think superhero fans forget there is an entire wing of media that exists to reaffirm and propagandize the importance of the genre back at them. But everyone hates them now. Hate who?
01:27:56
Speaker
Yeah, I think superhero fans these days are more complaining about the audience reactions than they are the films. I think all fans hate themselves. Every fan of everything just hate themselves. Well, anyone who identifies as a fan of something, then yeah, sure. Be a fan of yourself before anything else. I believe.
01:28:17
Speaker
Uh, Jay Greenlee comes back with $2 and says, seriously, as in no meta jokes stay in universe. He's going to meta joke up the wazoo. Oh my goodness. You know, he's going to delete your save file. That's how meta he gets.
01:28:33
Speaker
And Jason Hendrix gives $5 and says, unrelated, but thanks for giving me the words to describe my centrist beliefs as a fellow man of extremes. Yeah, I go. I I'm just I don't like being seen as a cut and dry right through the middle where it goes, oh, he never takes a strong stance. It's more just I have this extreme stance in this extreme stance on average in the middle. Yeah. Well, we have the luxury of being able to be centrist.
01:29:00
Speaker
These days can't really be a centrist in the age of the Nazis. I only say, OK, let's just kill half the world's Jews. No, that's not centrism. It's just bad math.
01:29:13
Speaker
What I'm saying is like, if you try to reach a middle ground between normal person and Nazi, you're being a Nazi. Oh, yeah, no, no, I don't know. I go the other ways. Like to me right now, like this conversation here. Yes, I think Superman is great and wholesome and optimistic and positive and lovely. But I also think it would suck to play as Superman in a video game. That's it.
01:29:34
Speaker
I can believe in both, I believe. And piss off both camps. I'm just gonna hold this shark toy here. I hope nothing unquiet, disquieting happens to it. You trying to make a dog do a thing? I spit out the song. Jaws in times four speed. Did Jaws ever eat a dog in the films? I'm sure a dog got eaten. I asked because Toffee seems to have an axe to grind.
01:30:03
Speaker
Oh. Comes from a lineage of great-great-great-great-grandfather eaten by Jaws. Neeras25 gives 10 rons and says, Mr. Miracle game in the style of POP 1989. Who's Mr. Miracle? I don't know. I haven't heard of it. I don't know if it's DC. Is that Marvel? Mr. Miracle. Oh. Dude, he's got a K. DC, Jack Kirby.
01:30:29
Speaker
See, I know Miracle Man was like a British superhero that had Moro ton at one point.
Respecting Source Material in Adaptations
01:30:35
Speaker
No, Jack Kirby, the creator, Jack Kirby. Oh, okay. The gangster. The guy that shot Lee Harvey Oswald, no? Jack Ruby. Jack Ruby. Oh, so close. The guy who made Kirby.
01:30:53
Speaker
Look at, look at, it's just feisty. Oh, he does not like that. He's like, you're not taking me on my walk. This is what's going to happen. He's beyond his walk. I had some time to kill before the podcast.
01:31:05
Speaker
He's got all this energy. He's worthy. For shit. I always disliked superheroes, but always loved one supervillain. Doctor Doom. He wants to rule the world. Not simply because he can, but because he thinks he's best fit to. Game potential. I think that says more about you, Tanami-Dooja.
01:31:26
Speaker
I've been like sitting on an idea for a scarecrow by a pig for many years because I really like scarecrow as a character. And that's probably because of my own problems with anxiety disorders. And the idea is like... What's his lore? For context, what is scarecrow's lore? Well, it depends on the thing, but I sort of made up my own origin story for him. Oh, I see what you mean. All right. Social anxiety caused him a boogity boogity.
01:31:52
Speaker
Yes. I have like, it's like a dude who tried to kill himself by inhaling too much fear gas and they're just completely off his mind. Um, but also that Dr. Doom about wanting to rule the world, not because you can, but because you think you'd be the best fit. Isn't that like, aren't all kind of like God games slash like civilization? Is that ostensibly like you were playing a Dr. Doom s character?
01:32:18
Speaker
making those big decisions. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good choice of scarecrow, Eric. The injustice to scarecrow is one of my favorite scarecrows. Cause you don't, you don't fight him. You fight a hallucination of him. Oh, that's cool. Hmm.
01:32:40
Speaker
Cause in his initial like a walking out animation, he's just like a dude in a lab coat with a bag on his head. And he releases like a canister. It's happening right now. Yeah, there he is.
01:32:53
Speaker
So that's cool. And the monster emerges. Okay. I once posted a tweet like, okay, I get that when other characters fights him, they're hallucinating the monster. But what happens in scarecrow versus scarecrow mirror matches? Is that just like a representation of Jonathan Crain's inner struggles? Yeah, there you go. It's got too deep.
01:33:18
Speaker
Well, uh, is that the last super chat? Actually, probably not. I need to refresh the page. Yes. Uh, human shield gives one 99 and says John Crytian was one of the first sci-fi heroes that tried to be a hero, but mess everything up and barely make it out alive. Is that the, was that Farscape? Am I right in thinking that was Farscape that John Crytian? Yes, looks like it. I've never watched Farscape, but yes, John Crichton Jr.
01:33:47
Speaker
is a Farscape. I don't know anything about Farscape. That name threw me off because, as you know, I'm a big fan of Red Dwarf. And in Red Dwarf, there's a robot character named Crichton, spelled K-R-Y-T-E-N, which was, which I now know was a pun on the Admirable Crichton, which was a story about a butler. But that was the first time I'd ever heard the name. So anytime I hear Crichton, I think that is a robot.
01:34:11
Speaker
I thought it was a type of John Carter who went to Mars. Yeah, that's a different John. That's a different John entirely.
01:34:21
Speaker
Uh, Paul gives $2 and says, Marty, give me your best Yahtzee impression. Uh, uh, faulty towers, uh, nib, nib, nibbits, uh, gin. Nibbits? Nibbits. Isn't that like a little snack? You guys like nibbits? We're just talking about weird chips I don't know about. Nibbits? We have knickknacks. That's a British snack. Knickknacks. Tim Tams? That's a Canadian. That's a Canadian. Oh. They're all not here. I'm bad at doing impressions.
01:34:51
Speaker
I don't know, it's just all the stuff, all the stuff, we talk about games, and then he says some things I don't understand every once in a while. Yeah, and it always makes me feel superior. There you go. There you go. Gildon Yetich gives to us, says we all want empowerment, yet hate those with power.
01:35:11
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you know, the dire hero will live long enough to see yourself become the villain and all that. Okay, I think I could just keep it secret. You know, just never be bothered. Oh, who could save us? Yeah, who? The brain sturgeon gives two euros and says, has Frost considered taking a cameo account? Taking a cameo account? What's that?
01:35:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's a service where you can get celebrities to record personalized messages for you. And it's easy work for them. They just like get their phone out and say a sentence and then they go through like a million of them in an hour. I've thought of setting one up actually, because I flatter myself in that I have a fairly iconic and well known voice for the internet age.
01:35:56
Speaker
Sounds dodgy with all this machine learning about. I would like to make a withdrawal from the bank page for $5,000. Well, you can choose which ones you do. You don't get obliged to do every single one. You just get paid for whichever ones you feel like doing. And it's usually said like, happy birthday, Lisa. You sound like a charismatic stallion.
01:36:22
Speaker
See, I feel like enough of those you could splice some weird, like, calling a stallion charismatic. Well, they could do that with all the stuff we already put online. No, because we talk over each other. It's not a clean cut. Well, they could use our video essays. Yeah. Oh, no. That's why I slur in mine. They never go along.
01:36:48
Speaker
Uh, one last one again by Jay Greenlee.
01:36:55
Speaker
Oh, yes. Jay Greenlee gives five dollars does guess I mean, treat the source material with respect, like the Halo show isn't doing. I'm all for different interpretations, but not wearing an IP skin. Well, you just want the fucking moon on a stick, don't you Jay Greenlee? You just want to not wear the flesh of the things you love. Nick, I think Nick said this season of Halo is better. I'm just not watching it because I didn't think the first I just don't know. I think it was boring to begin with. You know, I love Nick and he's a great boss, but I sort of discount everything he says he's good.
01:37:26
Speaker
Cause he keeps recommending shit and it's never really worked out for me. I'm just, I think everyone here has terrible taste for me. Yeah, honestly, absolutely. Myself included, definitely myself included. I tell you what people will like, but if you ask me, I was like absolute garbage. Don't look at these more for me.
01:37:48
Speaker
There's Toffee. Toffee. Can't trust a modern Halo fan. All right. All right. Well, thanks for listening to the Windbreaker podcast. I look forward to reading all the butthurt comments on this video as well. No, really, Superman was really well written in this one story from whenever. I've been Narti Kosho. I was joined by Marty Sleever.
01:38:17
Speaker
And Sebastian Lewis. And Toffee, who's digging his paws into my shoulder, urgently. I should probably go and make sure Little Timmy hasn't fallen down the well, but before that... Don't forget, Fully Ramblamatic, this Wednesday, will be on the subject of Banishes, Ghosts of New Eden, a new game by the dudes who made Vampire away back in the day. And I thought was apparently worth talking about.
01:38:46
Speaker
Uh, I've also got Yahtzee tries on Wednesday afternoon, which I'll be playing a couple of recent indie games that we've gotten codes for that I don't know much about. And you can get to see my reactions in real time. That's the gist. And, uh, oh yes, don't forget the Adventurer's Nigh finale, which will hopefully be ready by Saturday. It'll absolutely be ready by Saturday. Yes. I want to tune into that. It's a beef stir. It's a beef stir.
01:39:16
Speaker
All right, uh, Frost, your turn. Plug stuff. We'll have a go. New cold take just come out. Talking about surviving the Nexfest. This is, uh, to start you guys off, it's a little bit of like, what is it about some certain demos that sticks out to them? I get it. This is probably more geared for critics and devs than the actual like laymen, but the future Nexfest, now that this one's been laid out, will be more of like, these are the ones that stood out. If you care for the process, it's somewhere else.
01:39:42
Speaker
What I got. Right. Marty. Excellent. Uh, yeah, we should have our normal streaming schedule this week. Uh, later tonight, hidden gems will be back at, uh, 6 PM normal streams, uh, throughout the rest of the week. Uh, but then, uh, next week you guys will be off to DC, correct? So I think we're still going to hold down the fourth frost. You and I will be here. So there will be, there will be a fully rambled about it next week as to whether there will be one the week after that remains to be seen.
01:40:11
Speaker
But I'll be doing my best to keep up with content production while I'm away doing all our important other content production. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll be back, uh, with the show next week, sans Yahtzee. Um, maybe we'll see if Jamait's free. Otherwise, you know what? Frost and I'll just do a fucking two man show. We could talk about happy things. Yeah. We're going to talk about, Hey guys, by the way, Superman is actually great. We're going to retract all those things. We can retract every previous episode.
01:40:40
Speaker
Very good. Excellent. One last thing which happened. Paul gives $2 to say, hold on, aren't you your own bosses now? Yes. Everyone's got a boss. Nick's still got the editor in chief title. Nick is our boss, but also by virtue of the company. We are all Nick's boss. We are all boss, but some are more boss than others. Exactly. Double boss. Right. Well, that'll be it then. Bye bye, everyone. Hi, everyone. Thanks, Eric, for being great. You're all wonderful. Oh, cynicism.
01:41:27
Speaker
you