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Filming Docs on Athletes and Artists: Thug Rose and The Other Dream Team
42 Plays1 year ago
Never before have so many excellent films, docuseries, and TV shows been produced about many important topics…historical events, political upheaval, stories of courage and personal triumph, true crime, and of course…athletes and artists.
To learn more about this golden age of documentary filmmaking, Yasi and Steven talk to award-winning filmmaker Marius Markevicius. His new film that just debuted at the Austin Film Festival is “Thug Rose”, about famed UFC straw-weight champion Rose Namajunas. Her career is legendary, and Marius goes behind the scenes to capture her training, fighting, and performing…classical music on piano.
Marius also talks about his 2012 Sundance award-winning documentary “The Other Dream Team”, focusing on the Lithuanian Olympic Bronze-medal winning basketball team in 1992, whose story of perseverance and success amid political strife in a war-torn country fighting for its own independence would have been the main story that year, had the NBA not sent their own Dream Team to Barcelona.
To see the trailer for "Thug Rose", go to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEKwzbxDb80
For information on Marius' film career, go to https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2101256/
Biography:
Marius Markevicius is an award-winning filmmaker and founder of Sorrento Productions based in Santa Monica, CA.
In 2022, Marius completed “THUG ROSE”, the feature length documentary about Rose Namajunas, a two-time mixed martial arts world champion fighter who is an advocate for mental wellness and also a classical pianist. "THUG ROSE" will be premiering at the Austin Film Festival October 30, 2022 and will be released on UFC's Fight Pass network on November 9th, 2022
He is currently producing a documentary film “THE WIFE OF”, about the Women of the Belarus independence movement featuring opposition leader Svetlana Tsikhanouskaya.
In 2018, Marius directed and produced "ASHES IN THE SNOW”, the film adaptation of the New York Times best-selling novel “Between Shades of Gray”. The film stars Gotham Award winning actress Bel Powley (Diary of a Teenage Girl) and Martin Wallstrom (Golden Globe winning TV series Mr. Robot).
Marius also directed, produced & wrote the documentary feature film “THE OTHER DREAM TEAM,” which premiered at the Sundance Film Festival. The film was distributed internationally by Lionsgate and Disney and was nominated for Best Documentary of the Year by the Producers Guild of America (PGA).
He was a producer and raised financing for the 2016 feature film “1 Night” starring Kyle Allen (Westside Story) which premiered at the Austin Film Festival and was distributed by Level Films.
Marius was a co-producer on "LIKE CRAZY," the 2011 Sundance Film Festival Grand Jury Prize-winning film starring Felicity Jones (Academy Award Nominee) and Jennifer Lawrence (Academy Award Winner). The film was purchased and distributed by Paramount Pictures.
In 2010, Marius served as Associate Producer on "THE WAY BACK," a feature film from Academy Award-nominated director Peter Weir starring Ed Harris, and Colin Farrell.
Marius attended the University of California Los Angeles for graduate studies, where he received a Master’s Degree in fine arts (MFA) from the UCLA School of Theater, Film and Television.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the Athletes in the Arts podcast, hosted by Steven Karaginas and Yasi Amisari.
00:00:21
Speaker
Hello everyone, I'm Stephen Karaginas along with Yasi Ansari and welcome to the Athletes in the Arts podcast. We have an exciting new year lined up for you, so we are really excited to get right into this. But first, if you happen to like our show, we would really love it if you could find some time to leave a review and make sure you subscribe to the show as well from wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:41
Speaker
If you want more information on Athletes in the Arts, our mission, contact information on one of the many different organizations involved, or if you need some educational resources in performing arts medicine, please go to athletesandthearts.com.
Golden Age of Filmmaking
00:00:54
Speaker
So our show today is digging into the world of filmmaking.
00:00:58
Speaker
Now, if you have any streaming subscription at all, such as Netflix or Amazon Prime or Hulu, you may realize that we are in a golden age right now. Now, most folks think this refers to television in general, and there is some truth to that. But for my money, I think the documentary form of filmmaking is having its shining moment. Never before have so many excellent films and docu-series and TV shows been produced about many important topics.
00:01:24
Speaker
historical events, political upheaval, stories of courage and personal triumph, true crime, and of course, athletes and artists.
Introducing Marius Mark Cavisius
00:01:33
Speaker
So we have in our show today, Marius Mark Cavisius, a prominent documentary and feature filmmaker. His new film coming out now is Thug Rose, a documentary about the famed UFC's strawweight champion, Rose Nama Eunice.
00:01:47
Speaker
Her career is legendary as one of the top pound for pound fighters in the whole world, and Marius goes behind the scenes to capture her training, her fighting, and performing classical music on piano. It's pretty amazing to see as she is a top flight musician already, and you can see this for yourself. The trailer link for the movie is in the show description.
00:02:07
Speaker
Marius also made The Other Dream Team, which is a documentary film in 2012 that focused on the Lithuanian Olympic bronze medal-winning basketball team in 1992, whose story of perseverance and success amid political strife in a war-torn country fighting for its own independence would have been the main story that year had the NBA not sent their own dream team to Barcelona.
Marius's Filmmaking Journey
00:02:31
Speaker
So let's get into the interview. Marius, thank you so much for being on our show today. We really appreciate your time. How are you feeling today?
00:02:37
Speaker
I'm good. I'm good. Thank you for having me. I have a big trip actually ahead of me tomorrow. I'm flying out to Europe, to Austria for my next project, some filming and then to Lithuania for actually the premiere of my film Thug Rose, which is premiering in Lithuania on February 8th.
00:02:57
Speaker
a little hectic, a little pre-flight packing craziness, but otherwise I'm excited about it because it's all good stuff. That's amazing. So we want to talk about Thug Rose in a little bit, your new documentary coming out, or is on its way out right now. But first off, just talk a little bit about your journey into film in general. How did you get started? Yeah, I always just love storytelling and writing and creative writing, even as a kid.
00:03:23
Speaker
in elementary and junior high school, something I gravitated to. And then in high school, I started, you know, making little short films on on like video cameras with friends and actually had a couple classes at Santa Monica High School. There was a teacher, Dr. Ford that had taught at USC for a long time. And then he took over like the theater and film department at Santa Monica High School and had a couple classes there that
00:03:47
Speaker
really had an impact on me like he would show us on on I think it was late I was laser discs and they would play like big on a big screen films like Casablanca or North by Northwest and you know, really like a critical film sort of classes that I don't think a lot of public high schools have to have that experience.
00:04:09
Speaker
But then, you know, in undergrad, I studied business in Berkeley and went to the Haas Business School and was kind of going down a more business path. But then yeah, I just kind of always got pulled back towards filmmaking and I started writing screenplays and just, you know, studying that craft a lot and then decided to go to back to school to film school and went to UCLA to get my MFA and
00:04:35
Speaker
And that's, you know, I really kind of cemented that that's what I want to do. Yeah. And then out of UCLA, you know, sometimes it's scary. Sometimes it's safer and feels better to be in film school than out of it because you can tell people I'm in film school. That's what I do. That's what I do. When you finish, you know, it's a really hard business and a really difficult thing to break into and start.
00:05:00
Speaker
But I was fortunate, a friend of mine and became a mentor, Jonathan Schwartz, introduced me to a couple other filmmakers and friends. And we collaborated and made a couple of very low budget, independent films. And I worked on those as a producer. And I hadn't really thought about being a producer, but they were just projects that were ready to happen and didn't need much money.
Early Success and Collaborations
00:05:24
Speaker
And we made them and a couple of those first films were directed by Drake de Remis, who's had a really successful career. And those couple of films went to Sundance and things kind of really took off there. And the you know, my passion for film was solidified. One of those films was like, I think like like crazy, correct? Yeah, that was really in the film. That was a co producer on that. And yeah, that that
00:05:50
Speaker
was made for a very small budget and that was directed by Drake Doremus who's still a good friend of mine and it started Felicity Jones and Jennifer Lawrence and Anton Yelchin who sadly passed away but that little group you know
00:06:09
Speaker
Yeah, they went all in on this little project that we were filming with like no permits and and you know, sneaking into places and right and Jennifer Lawrence, I think she made you know, like the sag minimum for like a couple days of filming that she was on. She wasn't even the lead in the in the film, she was the supporting role. And I think her next movie was Hunger Games. Right. So yeah, I think that was the last movie that she worked for the
00:06:36
Speaker
sag minimum scale, a couple hundred dollars per day. So thank you, Jennifer Lawrence for that. That's been pretty scary going from, yeah, you got your business degree at undergrad. Is that what you said? Yes, correct. So they'll take that degree and then decide to go in the film. What's been a pretty, pretty challenging decision to make?
Balancing Real Estate and Filmmaking
00:06:55
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it was, I, you know, I started working, um,
00:07:00
Speaker
with our family real estate business. And I really enjoyed that. And I still actually work on some real estate projects and developments and, you know, enjoy the creative process of building, whether it's film or a structure. I think there's similarities. And I really enjoyed that. But I was, you know, working in real estate while going to film school and doing both. And just, you know, realize that, yeah, that, you know, films are definitely a passion.
00:07:28
Speaker
But I still somehow managed to juggle a little both. So you've been involved in documentaries and narrative feature films. Which do you prefer and why? Yeah, that's a very good question. I mean, I really enjoy both formats. And I've enjoyed switching back and forth from one to the other. And I haven't really had a
00:07:53
Speaker
conscious decision of like, I'm going to do a documentary now or I'm going to do a narrative. It's just sort of the path that has fallen before me or in front of me. When how a project sort of takes flight is
00:08:09
Speaker
up to the gods sometimes or up to circumstances out of your control. I always have a lot of things in development and I have both in development at all times. And I have a list sometimes of like 20 projects that are circulating.
Exploration Through Documentaries
00:08:23
Speaker
And sometimes one just goes and the things fall into place and then it's a big focus on that. But yeah, I love both formats with documentary filmmaking,
00:08:37
Speaker
entering a new world, a new subculture, and really diving into it, and then being able to kind of, you know, present that to the world and hopefully have people learn something really new and something real. And sometimes, you know, sometimes reality is not always so pleasant, but sometimes, you know, these stories, you can't write a script like Rose Namayunas, her story, and her life journey. I don't think you could, you know,
00:09:07
Speaker
an Oscar winning screenwriter couldn't probably craft such an arc and a journey. So yeah, but I also love diving into stories and creating things that are new and that haven't been done before and that you have the flexibility and the artistic freedom in narrative films too. So I love them both.
00:09:27
Speaker
So Marius, where does that inspiration for filmmaking come from? Do you just kind of look up at the sky and say, what's the vision today? Or is it you're working on a project and you have a little notebook with you and you're writing ideas down? How does the magic come about? How do you come up with the topics that you want to talk about? Is it more through conversation? Are you reading up on the news? I think it's really important for listeners to know.
00:09:56
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think a little bit of everything you just described.
Passion-Driven Projects and Risks
00:09:59
Speaker
I mean, there's definitely a lot of notebooks, there's notebooks like stacked, you know, stacked high with, with ideas and just jotting things down and definitely trying to stay current aware on news and topics. But ultimately, like, I know that if I'm going to commit to film, it has to also be something that I'm, you know, extremely passionate about. And
00:10:21
Speaker
and interested in. And so like the first documentary I made called The Other Dream Team that was about, it was, you know, a basketball political story about Lithuania's independence movement and how sports played a part in that. It just sort of, you know, when those kind of projects present themselves, you just kind of know that a lot of the passions are aligning and that this is something that I could definitely go all in on. And I have to know that I could spend years on this.
00:10:51
Speaker
And sometimes, you know, a lot of that time is making very little, no money when you're developing it. So it's a huge commitment and a certain risk in a way. Um, but you also can't have all your eggs in one basket. So I think, you know, developing, uh, a lot of different projects and keeping them going.
Juggling Multiple Projects
00:11:09
Speaker
I do set some certain rules. Like I think that I need to, you know, um, push forward.
00:11:16
Speaker
these projects, like some do something for that project, at a minimum once a week, even if it's a very early development phase, whether it's push a button here, write another email or a follow up or, or read a little more on it, or do some research or talk to someone who, you know, might be able to finance it, or, you know, I try to kind of, you know, make it a point to, to take an action like that as often as possible.
00:11:42
Speaker
Right. I feel like that's also where the business degree kind of comes in. It's like the financial piece of it. And then also just thinking about how to set boundaries and how to continue making sure everything is not in just one project, but a variety of projects and continue to build up on each of these.
Relating Sports to Personal Dreams
00:12:00
Speaker
Now, do you ever find yourself relating to any of the stories that you create and the artists that you work with?
00:12:09
Speaker
Um, well, on the documentary side, you know, I think that I've chosen some projects that are, you know, um, some bigger than life people and think people that have, you know, hit the apex of, of sport and all that. And I think maybe there's a dreaminess of, of that, that I, you know, I, my first goal in life would have been to be a professional basketball player. I was such a passionate basketball fan and played so much growing up and.
00:12:38
Speaker
grew up in LA and was a huge Lakers fan, and Matthew Johnson was my hero, and I'd write, you know, 20 book reports on him. And so, like making that first film, The Dream Team was, you know, maybe a little bit of a dream aspiration to even just meet and spend time with some of my heroes. But as far as relatability, no, I mean, it was not not, I can't really relate to guys who are gold medal athletes who are stuck in the Soviet Union.
00:13:06
Speaker
and, you know, living through the fall of the Berlin Wall and communism. And I was just, you know, I was growing up in L.A. as a kid in L.A. So hard to relate to that. But that's also what makes it fascinating, like to want to learn and dive in and and speak and ask the questions as you guys do in your podcast. I think it's it's rewarding to be able to to go through that learning process. And then in narratives, there's there's maybe more. I mean, they always say write what you know.
00:13:36
Speaker
in narratives and scripted stuff and, you know, the things I produced or the narrative film that I directed, you know, there has to also be some kind of connection and definitely there's relatability to the characters. I mean, I think we try to, you know, craft a story that's relatable to as wide of an audience as possible, you know, to have the emotional connection and to go along for the journey.
00:14:06
Speaker
It was pretty fascinating about your documentary about the other dream team because, you know, that was a story that was present back then. I mean, I was in medical school at the time when all that was going down. And I remember the Lithuanian team with their tie-dye, grateful, dead outfits.
00:14:23
Speaker
All those were like, oh my God, those are the coolest things in the world. Who are these guys? And yet that was like the, you know, what Lithuania went through, became an example for and helped change the world of sports. It seemed like, and your documentary kind of points out to those issues.
00:14:38
Speaker
But it also resonates with issues today with Ukraine and with other countries from 1992 to now, you know, Albania and you know, all these other countries that are struggling like this. But is it rewarding for you in a way to see how your you tell stories how, how they kind of hit a truism that becomes repeated in history over time? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I don't know if rewarding is
00:15:03
Speaker
is exactly the right word at this moment because it's actually disconcerting. It's sad to me that I made that documentary in 2011, 2012, and we felt like telling the story about what happened during communist times and Soviet times is really important to tell because it hadn't been told that much or that well in film.
00:15:27
Speaker
And but at that time, I remember when the film premiered at Sundance, there was also there was other world conflicts happening, you know, in the Middle East and a lot, you know, there was freedom going on that we were referencing during interviews then and Lithuania felt quite safe 20 that would have been 20 years into their independence and they were really integrating into Europe and joining NATO. But we were expressed a concern for other small countries that were fighting for their freedom.
00:15:52
Speaker
at that time as a reference for why that film was relevant then. And then you cut to now and it's come full circle where it's actually back to Lithuania's doorstep. And, you know, with the war in Ukraine, yeah, I mean, it's just sadly more relevant than ever. And a lot of the topics that are covered in that film and like some of the figures like Vito does Lanzregis, the person who led Lithuania's independence movement
00:16:23
Speaker
over the last 30 years since their independence, he's kept bringing up the concept of Russian aggression and some of the conflicts that they've continued to cause. And people were sort of dismissive of it, I think. Why is he still talking about Putin and Russia? Lithuania is free. Things are pretty stable.
00:16:48
Speaker
But they're not, and it's become sadly very clear that these things are cyclical in some strange and sad way. What do you feel like the impact of the other team had on Lithuanians?
00:17:09
Speaker
You shared that basketball was a big piece of your upbringing, I think for the fact that you lived in Los Angeles and grew up here, but it sounds like it's a big part of Lithuania's cultural heritage as well to some extent. It was part of their identity, it was part of the movement. Did you see any of the impact that movie made?
Impact on Lithuanian Audiences
00:17:32
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think it had it had a big impact out there. The documentary at that time became the highest grossing documentary in that country of all time. And, you know, it went on to play many times on TV there and in the film festival. And, you know, we would tour with it and play in different Lithuanian communities, diaspora communities, like I remember we had a big screening in London, and there was a lot of
00:17:57
Speaker
at that time, a lot of Lithuanians were leaving Lithuania because of not great economics and going to work in London. And they gathered like 400 plus 500 people in the sold out screening. And it was quite incredible because afterwards, a lot of those people had left years ago, Lithuania to work and they were so grateful. I mean, a lot of them were in tears and they're just grateful. They're saying like, you know, this film really helped me reconnect
00:18:24
Speaker
and think about Lithuania, it made me wanna call my mom or to go back because you can get so caught up in trying to make financial gain or to do the right thing for your career and opportunities, which was part of, which was a positive thing too, because Lithuania had opened its door, they got their freedom and they were able to integrate with Europe and have open doors so that people could pursue those opportunities
00:18:54
Speaker
And there was a huge wave of that, but I think now there's a wave of patriotism and, you know, which I think is also a natural cycle that a lot of people got to go and do their thing. And now a lot of people are actually going back because Lithuania is a thriving, small but thriving country and beautiful place and the quality of living is really high. And so if my film had, you know, in a small way, just even had some of those people reconnect with their roots and then to show
00:19:23
Speaker
other people who they've become friends with about what their country is about and the values and the fight and the struggle that they've gone through for freedom and for democracy. I've had a lot of people say that, including Rose. And that's kind of how one of our first connections was Rose had said that she would show that film to her like teammates and training partners as like a starter, like intro on what Lithuania is and
00:19:50
Speaker
what her cultural background is. And so that was really nice to hear that it's had that effect too. And we had screenings, we had screenings in Washington DC, political screenings with dignitaries. And when I was making that film, I never, I screened in the European Union, the headquarters in Brussels for dignitaries. So yeah, it became like a bit of a calling card where people could show that to a group and they would
00:20:19
Speaker
encapsulate like not only the political history, but the sports history and how basketball was part of really part of the cultural identity before Soviet times, through Soviet times, and then part of the independence movement. Yeah, wow. So with your new documentary about Rose, is this how you made the connection with her with through the movie, the other dream team or how that how your relationship with her come about, come about?
Connecting with Rose Namajunas
00:20:46
Speaker
Yeah, well, when I first, when she won the title, um, beating Ioana Janjecic in 2017 and became the strawweight champion, um, I had been following her career, but like when she won that, won that belt, I did a little more research on her and, and, uh, just read up about her history and her family history and how she got where she was and started really uncovering a really, you know, fascinating person with a lot of depth and, um,
00:21:13
Speaker
decided she could be a really great subject for documentaries. So I reached out and I found out they were coming to LA and I suggested just to meet and to have a short interview if she was open to it to, to help create like a basically a presentation reel, like a, you know, a sample of what the documentary could be. And her and Pat agreed. And I think, you know, she right away mentioned that she had seen my film and that she's, you know, shown it to a lot of people. And, and so yeah, like, it was a,
00:21:43
Speaker
It was a fairly easy connection and intro. But they took a leap of faith because we were gonna do a couple interviews with a project that was not financed and that takes some trust and faith. I was fortunate that Rose gave me that chance and we did a couple of interviews and they went really well. It took some time but then we eventually got the financing and we were off making the film.
00:22:14
Speaker
So what is the training like for UFC star like her? I mean, how much of with an athlete like that, like what's it like, um, for her in a day to day type of schedule for her to be able to do the things she does? Yeah, it's pretty intense. You know, those are high level athletes and they're obviously in a sport that's, um, very, it's intense and can be very dangerous. Um, so training is everything training preparation,
00:22:43
Speaker
Um, you know, there's the period, I think between fights where there is some downtime that, um, they're obviously staying in shape and honing their skills. But when they book a fight and then they officially start a training camp, I mean, it then ramps up, you know, 10 fold, at least in what I saw with Rose's case, uh, uh, you know, it's, it's multiple hours of sessions per day and it rotates between.
00:23:11
Speaker
Um, between some of the skillsets, you know, right? So there's grappling and she'll do like wrestling and grappling for a few weeks focused on that then. Um, and of course the whole time they're doing, uh, the, the grappling and training, there's, there's, there's fitness, there's weightlifting, there's cardio stuff. Um, then, um, then she moves into, she moved into a different phase in training camp where she focuses on, on striking with her coach, Trevor Whitman.
00:23:39
Speaker
Um, so it's, yeah, there's a lot of, uh, specialty stuff that, that goes on during training camp for the UFC fighter. And then what was it like, uh, filming any of the, did you get a chance to film some of the fights? Yeah. Well, we were, we were with Rose. The one that we had the most time and access was her second fight against Wiley Zhang. Uh, that was in Madison Square Garden, um, in November, 2021.
00:24:06
Speaker
And yeah, that was, that was something to lead up, you know, the intensity of the training camp and lead up to that fight. You know, you could really, it was really palpable. You could really feel it ramping up as it got closer. And as it got closer, you know, it was a tough thing with access and, you know, wanting to always be there and film everything, but also knowing that we have to give some space and distance because they're going into this,
00:24:32
Speaker
dangerous event that's coming up and we didn't want to be a distraction. So her fiance Pat was really helpful in that in helping knowing when when's a good time when's we need to give some space and we're fortunate they really granted a lot of close access. And I think eventually after so much time together, there becomes more of that fly on the wall, you know, we would try to be as quiet and kind of out of the way and try to disappear as much as possible. And
00:25:02
Speaker
I think that that was successful. And then the actual fight itself was incredibly intense for, it was one of the most visceral experiences I think I've ever had in my career. Uh, first as a sports fan, just like going to Madison Square Garden and being in the tunnels and just the lore and history of that arena, knowing where Ali fought there and, um, or, you know, New York Knicks championships or, you know, um,
00:25:29
Speaker
the Rolling Stones or you know, the history there is incredible. So that was fascinating to just be in that arena and having that access. But then seeing, yeah, Rosa's preparations and hyper focus with that, you know, 15,000 or 17,000 people screaming. The fights, you know, she was the co-main event. So her fight is second to last and there's like 10 fights before her and
00:25:56
Speaker
Some of the fights were so intense, you know, a lot of blood, a lot of intense fighting that happened before. And you see these guys coming back from the ring. They get checked by a doctor. They're, you know, they're, a lot of them are quite bloody. And some of them, some of them were put onto an ambulance and off to a hospital. Right. Wow. Like from the tunnels of Madison Square Garden. And in the meantime, Rose is getting her hands taped, you know, ready to go out there.
00:26:27
Speaker
I honestly had huge butterflies in my, I mean, I was getting like, nervous, almost nauseous, like, you know, being that close to all that. And so it's just incredible to see how Rose can maintain the focus with all that craziness going on and to stick to her game plan and to shut all that out. I don't really know how they do it.
00:26:48
Speaker
switching gears a little bit to more of the production side of all this. And when you're directing a documentary from the moment you're creating a script until the end of production, especially when you're working with athletes, do you guys come up in agreement with the amount of time that you spend with the athlete, what you're allowed to film with the athlete?
00:27:11
Speaker
I want listeners to also learn a little bit about what goes on in the background of all this because you're right there in the middle of all the action. It's like, if something happens, are you asked to move? Are you still in the heat of everything that's going on? Do you get to cover all of it?
Documentary Filmmaking Challenges
00:27:30
Speaker
Well, I think once again, you hit a lot of the things right on the head. I mean, it's a little bit of everything. I think the access sort of in this case with Rose, it also depends on who the athlete is. You know, I mean, if it's if it's LeBron James, you know, it's going to be hyper managed and and there's going to be a lot of restrictions. And, you know, there's huge teams of representatives. But like Rose is a very down earth person. She's a huge star and successful UFC champion.
00:28:00
Speaker
but she's very down to earth. And we quickly created, you know, a good bond and Pat also very down to earth. And I think, you know, it just organically finds itself, like how much access. And you also, maybe there's also intuition. I probably default a little too much to, like, I don't want to say being shy, but like, I guess I don't ever want to,
00:28:30
Speaker
interfere and cause a problem because, especially in this case, when it's a sport and it's a dangerous one, you know, the journalist side of documentary making tells you, like, you got to get in there and you got to push and you got to be there to capture everything. Right. And shoot first, ask questions later. Yeah. You know, let people get mad at you. And sometimes I have done that. And and maybe I'm actually
00:28:58
Speaker
evolving more that direction. But, you know, yeah, I think that in this case, we didn't have to try very hard, it just sort of happened organically. And, you know, we had a good understanding with Pat, and there was some times where Pat's like, you got to get out of here, you got to get out, you know, she's needs her rest, or it's been a stressful day. And we would totally, you know, respect that.
00:29:24
Speaker
Um, there's other times where I kind of went for it. Like when she had her, she had this eye injury where they, they thought she had a torn retina. It was in the middle of training camp ahead of that fight with Wiley Zhang and Pat texted me and told me that. And I was like, you know, first reaction was, Oh gosh, I feel terrible for her because the torn retina would not only mean the end of the fight, but it could be the end of a career for a fighter in the sport. Um, and then second thought is like, I hope God, she's okay. But.
00:29:52
Speaker
if it is a turnaround, this film is probably over, because there is no fight that we're following up to. And I don't know if she'll fight again. And so all these emotions, and then it's like what to do next. And the first instinct is like, well, we got to go, they were gonna go have a second opinion and go to like an eye specialist. I'm like, I got to, I have to be there. I have to film it. And, you know, but at the same time, it's like, you can imagine what they were going through. It's like, gosh, I hate to call and ask, like,
00:30:22
Speaker
Are you guys cool if we come in with our cameras fly in tomorrow from LA to Minnesota where they were enjoying you for the medical visit? Like, that was very uncomfortable. But I talked to my team and it's like, yeah, like, they've already they had devoted so much time already, you know, to this project. And I talked to them and they they agreed. Yeah, like, this is this is life. This is what we
00:30:49
Speaker
came out to film, like, you know, all the good, the bad and the ugly. And so once again, they were, you know, super gracious and trusting to let us come and film that and actually like film the actual doctor visit. So thank God it was a good prognosis that it was not a torn retina as they looked at it more closely. And she got a centric, a clean bill of health pretty soon after that. And it was a fairly dramatic moment in the film.
00:31:16
Speaker
So your film also focuses on her skills as a classical pianist and your trailer does a really nice job of using that as a backdrop for the violence that the sport perpetrates. How does she integrate her classical piano skills with her training? Is that a way that she?
00:31:32
Speaker
able to diffuse the stress of what she does? Or is this something that she just does naturally as a recreational thing? Or how did you see her using those skills in her life? Yeah, well, music, especially piano is definitely a big part of Rose's life. You know, the film title itself is Thug Rose, mixed martial artist and their emphasis on artists, because she definitely has, you know, artistic talents in her, it's in her genes, you know, it's in her blood, her mother is a
00:32:02
Speaker
professional piano player and studied in Lithuania and then has been a teacher in the United States for many years. And her father was a painter and, you know, quite prolific painter and artist himself. So she's definitely an artist and is definitely a big part of her life. I think she does use it as a form of meditation and to de-stress and, you know, plays as, you know, as a hobby, but I think she uses it
00:32:32
Speaker
for meditative purposes. And, and she's so good that I mean, she honestly, if she decided to make a career switch and become a professional piano player, she could do that. There's no question. You know, she played that in that opening sequence, our film, she plays a piece by Chopin, it's called fantasy impromptu. And from everything I gather, I'm no expert at all in music or piano, but like, it's a quite difficult piece. And when when she played it,
00:32:58
Speaker
and just nailed it. And we did a few takes, but she played the whole piece through every time and just nailed it. And it was on this big grand piano in this empty theater, this big theater, the Buell Theater in Denver. And the acoustics were incredible. And all of our team was just like floored. We were like, did she really do that? And then when we were editing it, we were concerned that people would think that
00:33:22
Speaker
it wasn't really her that it was like some kind of like, you know, movie magic sort of recreate, it was definitely it was her and yeah, she's essentially like a, you know, concert level player. Amazing. So beautiful what we heard in the trailer, Steve, it was just like magnificent. Um, there's an underlying theme in your documentaries covering real life struggles and challenges of the athletes that
00:33:52
Speaker
that you're working with. We see their athletic ability on TV, but we forget what they may be going through in their everyday lives.
Athletes' Personal Challenges
00:34:00
Speaker
Is there any specific story that inspired you the most with the athletes that you've worked with? And is there anything that you feel comfortable maybe sharing about some of these stories? I know that even Rose, it sounds like she went through a lot of different challenges to get to where she is. And I'm sure even with
00:34:19
Speaker
the other dream team, the basketball athletes, I know that when there's political unrest going on around you and you're still supposed to be focusing on your sport, it's just like a different level when you go out there and you compete. You're taking on not only the pressure of all the people, but whatever you may be experiencing inside. So any specific stories that you'd be open to sharing a little bit with us?
00:34:46
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that that's, you know, what makes the subject matter so interesting. You know, it's the sports are, you know, inspiring and compelling. But I think when you get to understand the backstory,
00:35:04
Speaker
and the journey and behind the scenes, I think that's when it hits a new level. And I think yeah, with the athletes in the other dream team, the Lithuanian athletes, yeah, I mean, what they went through as gold, they were, you know, gold medal athletes for the Soviet Union, they won in 1988, winning the gold for their oppressor, basically a four of the starting five were from Lithuania from the small little country that
00:35:27
Speaker
won a gold but obviously that was a huge achievement but it was bittersweet because it was not for Lithuania, it was for the Soviet Union. But to then know like what their lives were as gold medal star athletes and how things were not so easy or great or how they had to like smuggle items, blue jeans and
00:35:50
Speaker
You know records and aspirin and all these odd things video cassette players like during their international travels They would bring those things back to the Soviet Union and sell them to earn a few few extra Rubles because the amount they were earning as athletes I remember them telling it was like the equivalent of like $200 a month even though these gold medal athletes because they weren't allowed to pursue any professional
00:36:14
Speaker
real pursuit. There was no, you know, advertising money, they were not allowed to go to the NBA. You know, Arveda Sabonis famously was drafted to the NBA in 1984 to the Portland Trailblazers and he wasn't allowed to come. He didn't come until 1994, almost 10 years later. And so you imagine, you know, the amount of money that he lost or wasn't able to earn. And so they had to do things a different way. And it was super fascinating to hear those stories.
00:36:44
Speaker
Um, you know, if you could imagine, you know, stars of art that era, Michael Jordan or Maggie Johnson, you know, filling suitcases with blue jeans or, or, um, Michael Jackson records to sell on the black market so that they could earn a few dollars. Um, so yeah, it was kind of almost absurd and, um, but it definitely was part of their journey and they were, they were, you know, open to share those, those, some of those stories.
00:37:12
Speaker
But then, and then some of the cloak and dagger stuff, when the Soviet Union was falling and they were trying to pursue the opportunities to come to the NBA and, but there was still a lot of resistance from Moscow and from Gorbachev and there was, you know, KGB intrigue and all this going on. So, yeah, they went through a lot of different hardships. And then for Rosanami Yunus, yeah, I mean, she went through tremendous struggles
00:37:38
Speaker
as a child and for people who see the film. It's not you know, it's she's talked about in other interviews before my film so it's not such a spoiler but she was she she sadly was physically and sexually abused as as a kid and you know that that left a really you know tough mark and
00:38:03
Speaker
really was a trauma that she spent many years trying to get over and says that it's still, you know, a struggle, and that it's not something you get over. It's something that will be a lifelong struggle. And that was really hard to talk about and interviews and I just I didn't want to
00:38:21
Speaker
again, press it too hard or push it. I just wanted to give an open format for us to tell her story in one cohesive place and to give a safe space to do that. And I hope you know, I hope we're able to achieve that and I hope and she hopes that you know, telling her message will help other people that have been through those same traumas and struggles. Because she's you know, she's gone on to have such an inspiring career and just infuses positivity into
00:38:51
Speaker
everything and everyone around her. And she has so much emotional intelligence. So I think it's hopefully a helpful and inspiring story for other people who may have gone through a similar trauma. Yeah, she is, that's for sure. So speaking of documentaries in general, I mean, I think that pretty much most folks are really spoiled nowadays by the amount of great documentaries are available and the
Future Documentary Topics
00:39:17
Speaker
the appetite for documentaries. It's almost like the golden age of documentaries now for all the different streaming services. If you make a good show, you can get one out there and people will see it. Is there anything that you have an eye on for the future that you want to see more coverage on or something that you want to do as far as other topics in the future for documentary?
00:39:43
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think you're right that the world of documentary has really, you know, evolved and grown and exploded in the last 10 years in a good way. I mean, I think that there's the streaming, of course, like Netflix and Amazon and all the streaming networks have created a platform where there's more money, I mean, number one. So there's a lot more opportunity for documentary filmmakers to explore things and explore things deeper. I mean, DocuSeries are now
00:40:13
Speaker
you know, going more in depth, more than just a film. I will say that, in my opinion, for good and bad, because sometimes I feel like there's topics that get stretched out into a docuseries that don't need to be, you know, you don't need to see six or eight hours about, you know, the certain stories that that are a little that are thin. And you can then feel like like this is something that
00:40:36
Speaker
this is a business thing and they're trying to fill content and like, you know, episode two and three recap episode one. Right. Last one and previously on. Yeah. So it's for good and bad, but I'm happy with the direction. And, and, um, yeah, I mean, I have a couple of projects that I'm actually in production on now. And that's one thing I'm going to Austria. Um,
00:41:00
Speaker
There's a, it's a really fascinating story about our subject who's actually a Hollywood entertainment lawyer who's 83 and he founded a quite prominent law firm. But he's very much the anti law.
00:41:12
Speaker
lawyer. He's this just really altruistic, really interesting guy. And he's still working every day. But lately, he's moved into a pursuit of these various sort of extreme sport adventures and challenges. And he's going to try to break an under ice swimming record in basically freezing temperature water. He's been training for months in this lake in Austria called Lake Bison Sea. So
00:41:39
Speaker
It's yeah, he's just a very fascinating visual. Wow. And it's, it's, it's gonna go into, you know, his life story, but also about aging and how to do that. He's, he's doing it very gracefully and very, he says that the 80s are his best decade of his life, and that they can and should be for everyone. And his like, youthful energy is just incredible. He's gone like, cave diving in Mexico and
00:42:08
Speaker
diving with sharks and Bahamas and now it's this under ice. Oh, he does and he does trapeze every Sunday. Like literally swinging trapeze and and like just all these pursuits that keep him physically fit and mentally fit. But it's fascinating because he's not he's not it sounds like he's maybe like an adrenaline junkie or a thrill seeker, but he's not he's very it all has a purpose and it's all done with a lot of training and a lot of
00:42:36
Speaker
preparation and with experts and so it's something that's in the early stages but we're really excited because he's just a one of a kind. And then I have another project about the Belarusian situation in Belarus, their freedom movement and we're filming with some of the people that are involved in the opposition movement and
00:43:00
Speaker
That's a tough situation, obviously, and it's being a little overshadowed. Not a little, it's overshadowed now. The Ukraine war is the top thing in the news of that region, and there's this small country that's struggling, and they're also neighbors of Lithuania, and that's part of how I've connected to that project. So those are a couple of documentaries that I'm working on personally, but gosh, I mean, in terms of topics, I would love to see more coverage of
00:43:28
Speaker
of what's happening in the Ukraine war. And there already are some documentaries that have been made, but I think it's very important that the world, as some of it's quite horrific, but has to be documented. And I have a lot of respect for filmmakers that go into those areas of danger. And some people say that that's crazy and what are they doing? But they're really heroes because
00:43:56
Speaker
you know, it's just incredibly important for topics like that to be documented and circulated and so people can be informed around the world.
00:44:12
Speaker
Not many folks think about someone had to go to that place and film that and be in the middle of all that to be able to show it to people, but it tends to become, hearing your stories about this is fascinating because making documentaries without a script and having things evolve and having to be in a fight situation or in a political strife situation, sometimes the documentary filmmaker can be taken for granted.
00:44:40
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, journalists and documentary filmmakers are heroic in that sense when they put themselves in danger to do something that they know is right and to document it for history. And yeah, I mean, like we talked earlier, there's a lot of stuff out these days that a lot of documentaries are moving.
Trends in Documentary Filmmaking
00:45:05
Speaker
I think there's a lot of that are in a more sensational direction that are
00:45:10
Speaker
entertainment like, you know, Tiger King and things like that, which sometimes I get sucked into those too, because they're bizarre. And there are certain subcultures. But yeah, I mean, as the genre evolves, you know, there'll be all types. And I just it's just good that audiences have a choice and have more selection than ever. Even if it's a little hard to sometimes weed out the good quality ones. But
00:45:38
Speaker
in general, it's moving in the right direction.
Mental Health in Filmmaking
00:45:42
Speaker
So the importance of mental health is a theme we highlight a lot in our podcast episodes. And I can imagine that while the work that you do is so rewarding, how do you make sure that you're also taking care of yourself through all of it? What helps you fuel yourself mentally and emotionally? Like what keeps you going to be able to have that stamina and that energy to keep filming and
00:46:06
Speaker
learning about these stories and in continuing to keep creating. Yeah, I think often the subjects themselves give me inspiration. You know, I think Rose is the prime example of that. I mean, she's just she's been through so much and so many difficulties and then has, you know, fought through that and risen to the apex. And to watch her process and to talk to her about it and to talk about, you know, spirituality and positivity and
00:46:36
Speaker
using positive affirmations. I think I really learned a lot from her during the course of the film itself and that when I had some moments of doubt or some moments of, my gosh, are we gonna get our financing or are we gonna make it through or how long, how many more times, how many more travels and how many more plane flights? Do we have a good material? Are people gonna connect to it? Then you have all these doubts and it, but it's almost like,
00:47:05
Speaker
life imitating art, when you're then filming the person who's in the ring saying, I'm the best, I'm the best, you know, she's saying she'd have this, you know, affirmation to herself, it's very simple, and it's just I'm the best. And it she said it would, she just repeat it in a meditative way, telling herself because it would help her block out, not allow negative thoughts even to enter into her mind. And and so I found myself probably literally copying her at times. And
00:47:33
Speaker
and saying like, we can do this, our team is the best, like this film is gonna be the best. And so yeah, that's part of the rewarding part of the process and the work is like learning something from the people that you're spending the time with and who would have achieved the highest level that you can in the world. So just being around those people and studying them
00:48:01
Speaker
and learning from them, I think is definitely part of what has motivated me and keeps me going when times get tough in the course of a project. Yeah, well, Marius, I mean,
00:48:14
Speaker
Everything that you've shared with us has been just eye-opening and the stories that you've shared with the public have been so exciting in terms of learning about history and the stories of these individual athletes. Is there anything else that you want people to take away from the work that you do and you want them to apply to their everyday lives? Is there anything that you've really learned from the work that you take on that you hope
00:48:57
Speaker
in terms of filmmaking, to do things and chase things that are, you know, subjects that are your passion and that things, if you go all in, that the cards will fall in the place that they need to. That may sound kind of abstract, but I think, yeah, like,
00:49:05
Speaker
listeners can take away from this episode?
00:49:17
Speaker
I went down a path of making films about my cultural heritage because that's incredibly important to me. And it's like, you know, so much in my family and in my roots. And from that has led to some of the, you know, more rewarding work experiences. And now those things are combined. And it goes all the way back to my childhood. My parents kind of kicking me in the butt and forcing me to go to Lithuanian Saturday School while I was saying, you know, why don't I take, you know,
00:49:48
Speaker
uh, Chinese classes or it'll be more useful, you know, instead of learning this obscure language of a country of 3 million people that we're not allowed to visit, you know, because it was Soviet times and, um, but that, yeah, that, that, you know, destiny played itself out that, um, some of that pushing from my parents was, was maybe what I needed or a great thing, but then also finding, finding, uh, my culture in my own way and finding it through film and, and, you know, really, um,
00:50:18
Speaker
you know, heightening my knowledge of our cultural background and my love for it, and being able to travel there. So I think that's just been my individual journey. I think it's different for everybody else. But I think that exploring your past can also help you to guide your future.
00:50:41
Speaker
Yeah, and it sounds like also listening to what you're passionate about. So, you know, for you, I think in high school as well, right, you shared that you were taking the class that you were taking was focused on short films and you got to explore that at a younger age.
00:50:56
Speaker
And that was something you were passionate about and you kept going with it. So look how far it's brought you and look how look at the impact that your movies have made and will continue to make. And you're also incorporating your cultural heritage and bringing about awareness about such a big issue. So I think that you've you've tackled a lot. So, you know, cheers to you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. And I and I honestly, I feel like I'm still a rookie in a lot of ways and still to
00:51:25
Speaker
early part of my career. And I think that, you know, like Rose said, at the end of, at the end of our film, that the best is yet to come. And I believe in that. And I feel like I, you know, have gained a lot of experience, but I'm keep learning and keep applying it to the next projects. And I think that, you know, I'm not a young guy anymore. But I think that that that's another lesson that I've learned and people can apply is just to keep learning and keep growing and keep exploring and diving into something that
00:51:53
Speaker
that challenges your brain and your mind and good things will come of that. Well, we look forward to seeing your journey in the future here and good luck to everything you're doing right now. Good luck to Thug Rose. Good luck to your future projects and safe travels here very soon. And Marius, thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for having me.
00:52:14
Speaker
And that's a wrap on this show. Remember, if you like what you hear, please click subscribe and maybe leave a review as well. For my co-host, Yasi Ansari, this is Stephen Karaginas, and this has been the Athletes and the Arts Podcast.