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Hopping Into Hip-Hop: Detroit Version
111 Plays7 months ago
How does one take music, rapping, writing, performing and turn that into a career? On our show today is recording artist Derek Demkowicz, aka Demko, and Michael Reiber, head of marketing for Headlights Hip Hop and Derek’s buddy from high school. We discuss how they started in music, the value of comedy improv training, and the benefits of controlling your own destiny. Derek and Michael also talk about their hip hop concert they are putting on in Detroit on May 18, 2024.
For Demko's Spotify page, go to: https://open.spotify.com/artist/36bOXFMGTOcg3fNGsqVZhi?si=4_X9uuIAShijrEfyKpFHgQ
For Demko's Apple Music page, go to https://music.apple.com/us/artist/demko/1557597311
Demko's IG: @demkomusic
For more resources on performing arts medicine, go to www.athletesandthearts.com
Bios:
Derek Brian Demkowicz, AKA Demko, is an LA-based rapper, producer, and sound engineer with Detroit and Chicago roots. As an independent artist he has gained over 250k streams worldwide, released songs with Grammy-nominated artists, and connected with fans in 150+ countries. Notable collaborations include: Royce Da 5’9”, Mick Jenkins, GAWNE, and Futuristic. Stream Demko wherever you listen to music.
Michael Reiber has years of music industry experience out of New Orleans, Detroit, New York, and currently Nashville. His passion for human connection through music and creative brand storytelling has been the focus of his work since the beginnings of his career at Loyola University New Orleans, where he started his first marketing company in 2016. Today, Michael is the Head of Marketing for Headlights Hip-Hop, a rap start-up headquartered in Detroit, and manages Demko, his lifelong friend that he met through music in high school at U of D Jesuit.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsors
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the Athletes in the Arts podcast, hosted by Steven Karaginas and Yasi Ansari.
00:00:20
Speaker
Hello, everyone, and welcome once again to the Athletes in the Arts podcast. I'm your host, Stephen Karaginas. Yasi Ansari is out on assignment. We are proudly sponsored by School Health, your one-stop shop for health supplies and services in educational settings. Check out what they have to offer at SchoolHealth.com. You can also go to AthletesInTheArts.com to get more information and resources on performing arts health.
Local Hip-Hop Concert and Sponsorship
00:00:45
Speaker
So today we're going back to my local roots here in Detroit, Michigan to find out what it's like to become a music artist, specifically a hip hop music artist. How does one take music, rapping, writing, performing, improving, and turn that into a career? Well, with me today on the show is recording artist Derek Demkovitz, AKA Demko, and Michael Riber, head of marketing for Headlights Hip Hop and Derek's buddy from high school.
00:01:12
Speaker
Although Michael is in Nashville and Derek is in LA, all of us came from the University of Detroit High School in Jesuit Academy, but I did go there a couple decades earlier. As fate would have it though, Michael and Derek are putting on a live hip-hop concert event in Detroit on May 18th called Jabs Jim's Summer Jam 24, where Derek will be the headliner.
Michael's Music Journey and Partnership with Derek
00:01:33
Speaker
And full disclosure, my medical group I work for, Restorative Physical Medicine in Novi, Michigan, as well as Team Rehabilitation, one of our physical therapy partners with locations in five states, will be the sponsors for the event. Okay, so now with all of that out of the way, let's get right to it. Derek, Michael, thank you so much for being on the Athletes in the Arts podcast this evening. How are you guys doing tonight? Doing well, thank you for having us.
00:02:00
Speaker
Yeah, thank you for having us. We're excited to be here. Awesome. So, Mike, first. Now, both you guys are from U of D High Jesuit Academy. Actually, all three of us are. But, Michael, I wanted to find out from you how you got your start in the music business. Yeah, I have the guys sitting in the room with us today to credit for that a little bit. Also, I love that we have a room full of U of D guys here today. I think that's a pretty cool circle. Pretty wild. Yeah, I like that a lot.
00:02:26
Speaker
I got into music when I was really young. I was a kid and I was like, I'll tell this story really quick. I don't normally tell this. I was running around at four years old when my mom would take me on walks around Grosse Pointe and things like that. And I would literally run up to trees and knock on them and yell music at the tree, trying to get the tree to make music with me. So I was always, I was always, Derek might not know that story.
00:02:47
Speaker
I was always an obsessed music kid. And so I knew early on when I was in middle school, music was going to be a part of what I was going to do for the rest of my life. And then when I got to high school, I met Derek. And I had always been interested in rap and things like that. But I never really got into it until him and
Derek's Passion and Album 'Resilience'
00:03:04
Speaker
I met. And on the back of the bus, when we were going to school sophomore year, we would just start freestyling back and forth, like to school, from school, us, our friends. It was a lot of fun. And so I got really into the,
00:03:15
Speaker
the artistry of crafting words in music you know like lyrical hip-hop that kind of thing like putting together the puzzle making you know the the cool punch lines and things like that was really what i was all about and and so was Derek so we got along instantly and clicked in that way which was really cool
00:03:31
Speaker
And I went to college for the music business after that because I legitimately thought that I was going to be the next Eminem. I had it in my head. I was ready to go. And when I got to school, I found the business side of things. I found the management. I had a professor in college named Billy O'Connell. And he turned me on to this marketing side of music that could be so creative and so free flowing and things like that.
00:03:53
Speaker
you know especially if you're working with artists like there's a different dynamic to it that's really cool and so he really like you know perked my ears to this and I got really really into the business side so I started a small marketing company when I was in college and then I freelanced after school just with jazz bands in New Orleans I moved to New York and I started my own podcast and then I moved to Nashville and now I'm doing a lot of marketing with different artists and businesses in music so
00:04:18
Speaker
It's kind of what got me to this point today and then obviously organizing the show with my buddy Derek has been an absolute ride but it's been a lot of fun and we cannot wait to put it on.
00:04:27
Speaker
So when you were at U of D in high school, were you playing music? Were you in the band? What were you doing? Actually, I was in the band for one year, Derek, before you got to U of D. You might not know this story either. So we're getting to know each other even better today. Many revelations here. That's right. That's right. I played cowbell in the U of D marching band in eighth grade. What?
00:04:48
Speaker
I played the cowbell because it was either that or some complex language that I didn't want to take. I don't know why you haven't been doing cowbell on my tracks. Oh my God. I know. We got to work that back in. I just take the rust off. I chose band over Latin.
00:05:16
Speaker
they didn't have any instruments left and I said I play percussion like I played piano but they don't have piano in a marching band so I played percussion and the music teacher at the time said well we only have one spot left let me see if I can find you an instrument and the only instrument she could find in the back of the school music hall was a cowbell and a stick so I literally sat there for an entire year and played cowbell in the school band we marched I marched in the band playing cowbell and on the last
00:05:42
Speaker
like parade that we did that year, the last song, the last note, I hit that cowbell so hard I broke the stick in half. Wow. Yeah. And I still have that and I still have that cowbell stick. I think it's somewhere deep in my drawers at home.
00:05:56
Speaker
So you couldn't keep the cowbell. You had to leave it behind for future generations to enjoy, right? Bach, they only had one cowbell, so I couldn't take that with me, believe it or not. Oh, that's terrible. But it just took a broken stick, for sure. Well, I can tell you that I was in the band in 1981, 82, 83, to deal with this a little bit. Oh, nice. And there was no cowbell then. So apparently- They needed me. They needed me. It's a tradition that got passed on after me, so I am jealous, beyond belief here.
Navigating Music Industry Challenges
00:06:20
Speaker
Yeah, it was interesting. And then I played piano my whole life, and then obviously making music and things like that. Gotcha.
00:06:26
Speaker
And then when you went to college, were you going to college for music first and then discover business there? Or were you like, what was your intention when you went? Because you said you wanted to be the next M&M, so were you thinking about it? Yeah, absolutely. So pretty ambitious with that, be the next M&M thing, now that I'm thinking back on it. But I actually went to my college counselor at U of D, Heidi Hudson. And she talked to me about these programs at colleges where you can learn the business of music. They're literally called music industry study programs.
00:06:55
Speaker
And so I got really into some of these programs that, for example, like Loyola Marymount in California, I think, has one. And Belmont has one here in Nashville. They're all over the place. I chose Loyola University in New Orleans.
00:07:10
Speaker
for a couple of reasons. A lot of the professors there seemed like they would, you know, really helped me a lot, and then they did. So I ended up making the right decision. And doing music in New Orleans was one of the coolest experiences. I got, like, thrusted into the jazz world there, and I was, like, going to all the underground jazz clubs, and I was, like, meeting people who were some of the, like, most famous musicians, and I had no idea. You know, these guys are so humble. They're just players, right? They're just a bunch of cats that play their instruments.
00:07:33
Speaker
they don't come up to you and say their names. They're just like, hey, what's up, my man? It was a really cool vibe. So that's where I got really into the music business and stuff like that. I was literally taking business classes in the music school, and I was taking business classes in the business school. So I would take two or three marketing classes during my time in college, and I'd take two or three management classes. I took a couple finance classes. I took a couple
00:07:57
Speaker
tour production classes I took like royalty classes so I kind of got like the music business end and then I got the business admin end as well and in my major specifically I didn't really do any playing most of my homework was go to shows you know what I mean write write about the show things like that dissect it obviously putting together like marketing plans I said I had started a business in college that was like a side hustle thing but
00:08:21
Speaker
you know, very valuable experience. So I think part of my major, and I think if you're going to go into music, Derek can probably speak to this too, going into acting school, is that you have to make opportunities for yourself. You know, so I think that was really the big thing that in school, like that taught, like that music business program taught me, oh, nothing's handed to me. If I want to do music, I have to find ways to do music.
00:08:40
Speaker
It's not like being a doctor. My sister's in med school. She has a very concrete path of where to go. If you want to be a lawyer, you have a very concrete path in music. You kind of have to figure it out. That was one of the things I would say about music school in particular, if you're looking for a little bit of insight into what these programs are like, is that they're pretty competitive and everybody wants to be an artist. Everybody wants to
00:09:02
Speaker
wants to be in the music business and things like that because maybe it sounds cool but there's really a lot of challenges with it and you know it can be pretty cutthroat and like Derek and I are kind of learning here as his career starts to really grow is that it can be frustrating and challenging at times but at the same time it's really rewarding when you get to do stuff like this.
00:09:19
Speaker
Well, it sounds like you kind of tapped into one of the aspects of making it in this kind of career is that the work ethic is everything because, you know, it's obviously people love to be in music and such, but it's like, you know, the person who's always talking about being a producer is probably not really a producer because a real producer is too busy producing to talk to you about being a producer.
00:09:37
Speaker
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Derek can obviously speak to this as well. He's the one that's in the lab all day. I had an internship when I was in college. It wasn't the best internship for me because I felt like my experience, I had never been in a program like this before. I had never really had a job like this before as an intern. This was my first introduction to the music industry on some real levels.
00:10:05
Speaker
And they were basically saying, well, what do you want to do? And I was like, well, I don't know. I'm the intern. And I was learning at that moment in real time. I didn't realize that if you're in the music industry, you have to be self-sufficient, even if you're an intern. Right. Yeah. That makes total sense. So speaking of self-sufficient, Derek, so you're based out in LA now, but you came from Detroit growing up. How did you get started in the music business? How did you get your feet under you as you started developing? Yeah. I, like Mike, was always
00:10:35
Speaker
I always loved music. My dad has been playing guitar forever. He plays a lot of rockabilly. So I grew up with that always around the house. So I picked up playing guitar. When I was pretty young, I started taking lessons for it. And immediately with lessons, I was like, I hate this. I just want to be able to go out and do it and figure it out on my own. And that has become a huge theme in my life of just like, I don't care how it's supposed to be done. I just want to do it and do it my way.
00:11:05
Speaker
So I started playing guitar. Specifically, I picked up the blues because that was just a lot of improv, a lot about emotion. You learn the structure and the bare bones of it and then you just express yourself however you're feeling. So I grew up playing a ton of blues guitar. I was in a couple little
00:11:23
Speaker
you know, garage bands and middle school and whatnot did talent shows and I would like write songs all day. But I never thought that music was going to be the thing for me. I went to Emerson College for acting, which ironically, so did the rapper Watsky.
00:11:42
Speaker
who is a Yeah, he also went to Emerson College. I think for acting we had a lot of the same teachers He was only a few years before me and I have a few other people I went to college with who also were there for acting who are also really great big rappers So my school I guess just kind of does that but music was always to me the other thing that I did it was like my love like my
00:12:03
Speaker
They were like my journal entries, you know, like just a way that I needed to express myself whenever I, because what I kept finding with acting was even when I went to college, even when I started creating a lot of my own work was there's so much waiting for other people to say yes.
00:12:21
Speaker
There's so many gatekeepers being like I you have to get in touch with this person who will get you in the room where you can then be in front of this person so that you can audition for this person so you can eventually be considered for this TV show. It's like there's so many steps.
00:12:37
Speaker
So many gates being kept to get where I wanted to go, still wanna go when it comes to acting. And that always frustrated me. But with music, it was like, okay, I can just pick up a guitar and I can just write a song. So as Mike talked about when we met sophomore year on the bus to and from U of D, I saw him back there just freestyle rapping and I was like, that's so much fun. He was like, this kid sucks, I'm better than him.
00:13:03
Speaker
Yeah, I saw Mike and I was like, he's making that look really hard. I bet I could make it look a lot easier. So yeah, we became really fast friends. I liked hip-hop before that, but it was very genuinely meeting Michael here that gave me a love and
Creative Process and Role of Improv
00:13:23
Speaker
appreciation for it.
00:13:24
Speaker
And both of our loves and enthusiasm for it just kept growing. And so all through high school, I would still make songs. I like did choir and everything that I was still doing the plays and musicals. And I would rap and I would like we would do like some freestyle circles at lunch and after school and behind the school and stuff.
00:13:43
Speaker
And we even produced a couple tracks together that will never be heard by the public. Again. I don't even know if we still have them. You still have them? Oh my gosh. All right. You're going to have to lock those down until the documentary.
00:13:58
Speaker
So music for me was always just a great way to express myself. I'm someone with a lot of emotions. I gotta let it out some way. And if I'm not getting acting roles, I'm gonna go write a song. I'm just gonna go find a way of expressing myself. So after high school, I went to Emerson College. When I got to Emerson College, I was like, great, I'm an actor, actor 100%. That's all I'm gonna really focus on.
00:14:26
Speaker
the first person that I met at Emerson, I'm going to shout him out, his name's Ari Miller, awesome dude, great actor. He was also really, really into hip hop and he opened me up to a bunch of different kinds of hip hop. So a lot of the hip hop we listened to in high school was a lot of like Slaughterhouse, Royce, Eminem, a lot of like very lyrical stuff.
00:14:48
Speaker
a lot of Detroit style stuff. And then when I met Ari, I started listening to a lot of Chance the Rapper, Mick Jenkins, a lot of Chicago style hip hop. And it just put me onto a whole different kind of music. And I was like, oh, so hip hop really expanded my mind for it. And so we would freestyle together sometimes. I met a couple other producers in college and it was just like,
00:15:10
Speaker
I would just kind of do it for fun because I loved it, but I was really focused on acting. Still am focused, but music is plenty. So as I'm floating around, going through my acting training, I'm still making music, I'm still writing verses, I'm still doing all of that. Then finally, junior year of college, I'm going through a breakup, have a lot of emotions, and I'm like, you know what? I've been rapping forever. I have Garage Band on my little, bad,
00:15:40
Speaker
Mm hmm. Broken MacBook. Let me just like produce an album. I've produced a little bit before I know how to play guitar. I can like I can I know the basics. So I just produced an album and put it on SoundCloud. And you know what it no one listened to it. And that's fine.
00:15:56
Speaker
because that's not the point. I released something. It wasn't the first music I released. I released acoustic albums and stuff before that, just a bunch of random stuff that I made. None of them was good, but as an artist, the first stuff you make is not supposed to be good. You have to learn. So I dropped a mixtape junior year of college, and then I kept working at it, kept writing, and I was like, you know what? I really do like doing this, and I upgraded my software. I started working in Logic.
00:16:26
Speaker
I still didn't know actually how to do it, but I trusted my ear. Same thing with I could have learned the ins and outs of music production, how to actually do everything, but I just wanted to do it. I just trusted myself that I would be able to swim even if I wasn't prepared. Then I could just jump into it and I will be fine.
00:16:51
Speaker
So after graduating college, I moved to Chicago, kept producing music. At that point, I had another album on the way that I had been working on for a while. That one was better produced. That one, I had put more into it that I was actually thinking through a lot more. And as I got to Chicago and started seeing what it was like being an actor,
00:17:12
Speaker
trying to do it full-time, doing random children's theater shows. I did a few movies. I was in a film that was in Sundance, and that was really cool. But it was never consistent, and there was so much waiting for other people to say yes. And I got so sick of waiting for other people to say yes. So what I ended up finding was an improv community in Chicago.
00:17:33
Speaker
And improv became what I did instead of theater. And it's still what I do instead of doing theater because it's, to me, the ability to go out and just trust a bunch, a whole team of people that we're all going to have each other's backs. We're all in this together. We're going to make something really fun and goofy. And it doesn't matter what it is because we're all going to have fun and commit to that.
00:17:55
Speaker
And that's what I loved. And that's what I loved about blues when I started doing that, that same idea of improvisation, playing from where you're at, figuring out, how do you feel in this moment? Okay, that's great. Go make something out of that. That's where I write from. That's where I make music from. That's where I act from. So it all started coming together.
00:18:15
Speaker
And I was still making music. 2019, I dropped a second album. This was all under a different name. Hypocrite. Spelled with a K and a weird O symbol that was really hard to find. You had to do a special search to be able to find it. It was horrible marketing by me. Like a slash through the O and a lot. Yeah, like a slash through the O. And so you couldn't just type in hypocrite. You wouldn't get any search results from that. You had to do the specific thing.
00:18:45
Speaker
But in hindsight, it's like, okay, I don't need anyone to listen to those. But I released a second album because people really liked the first one and started actually listening to it and were giving me some attention. I was getting respect for my peers and whatnot, and started really
Supportive Role and Strategic Growth
00:18:59
Speaker
loving doing it. And so the second one, I really got into producing it.
00:19:04
Speaker
And it started experimenting and trying everything else. And at that point, I had fallen into a community of musical improv. So I'd started improvising musicals. So you get a suggestion at the top and then we improvise a full length musical from top to bottom. All the songs are improvised, all the music is improvised, all the lyrics, everything.
00:19:25
Speaker
And so that started combining, so musical improv started combining my love of music with my love of comedy and acting and seeing how I can combine it all together. So then the pandemic hits in 2020. When that hit,
00:19:40
Speaker
My whole family, I was very fortunate to be able to go back home with my parents, and all of my siblings came back too. We were all safe and healthy, so very fortunate about that. The issue that I had was that all four of my siblings still had work or they had school. They had something going on.
00:20:01
Speaker
Me, all of my jobs were part time jobs, or I was doing theater and shows and stuff. And now all of a sudden, I could not perform. I had nothing to do during the day. And this was just gonna go on for the foreseeable future. So I was going crazy. I don't know at all what to do. And it was that period where I realized how much of my life was dependent around other people saying yes to me.
00:20:29
Speaker
of me like having to present myself for other people and for them to allow me the opportunity. Yeah, sure. Yeah, you can go up on this stage and make 50 bucks for this like six month long run. Okay. Yeah, sure.
00:20:44
Speaker
Sure, we'll accept you. You can go and maybe audition for this movie. Yeah, take off two days of work and then come do these auditions that you're not going to be reimbursed for. Oh, you didn't get it? All right, we'll see you in a year and a half when we call you back in for one line in a commercial. It's like so much of just waiting for other people. So when the pandemic hit,
00:21:06
Speaker
All I had was music. It was the only way I had to express myself. It was the only thing that I had that was artistic that I had control over. So I was like, I don't know what to do. I'm going to start treating this like it's a job. And I know that my music, I know there's a dissonance between how my music sounds and the way music sounds on the radio. And I don't know what that gap is.
00:21:29
Speaker
So I started learning. I started watching YouTube videos obsessively and I started practicing. I spent every single day watching videos, doing all the research that I could, spending no money on it. I didn't want to take a class. I was like, I want to learn this on my own. I want to figure it out. I trust my ear more than anything.
00:21:48
Speaker
And the best piece of advice I ever got about music was, if it sounds good, it is good. There's no rules. If it's art, if it sounds good, it is good. So I started trusting myself and listening and going, does this sound good? Then I started referencing other tracks. Why does that sound good? Why does that sound better than this one? So I started working at it every single day, started practicing it.
00:22:08
Speaker
Around that same time, I was recovering from a partially torn ACL. I had tore the labor of my hip in college. And during that time, I herniated a disc in my back. So that was one of the worst ones. That one was getting really bad. It was very debilitating. It was hard to walk around, hard to move around. I didn't know what was happening. I didn't know how to take care of my body. So my first album under Demco,
00:22:32
Speaker
Which I do really consider to be my first album. Everything before that I really consider mixtapes, trial projects. They were all like, that's all me throwing spaghetti at the wall. My first real album is called Resilience. The album cover is a silhouette of me with, what are they called?
00:22:55
Speaker
These things, crutches. Crutches, yes. I forgot the word crutches there. It's a silhouette of me with crutches, then the Chicago skyline, and behind it there's a silhouette of a powerful superhero. And the album is 12 or 13 songs. I don't remember it at this point. It's a lot of songs just kind of detailing
00:23:19
Speaker
here basically here's who I am here's who I am what I love to do and I'm just I'm really just gonna try this thing in a way that I've never been willing to throw myself into it before and and there's a lot of songs in it and references to the fact that I
00:23:38
Speaker
Physically, my body has had to overcome a lot, a lot of pain and a lot of suffering. It took a lot of resilience to be able to constantly come back from all of those injuries, which eventually led me to be like, all right, I want to get a better day job. I guess I'm going to learn how to be personal trainers. I don't get hurt again and can learn how to do all that. I am a certified personal trainer and all that. Those things are all connected for me.
00:24:03
Speaker
And you got to get more close to what it sounds like. Exactly. Pretty much. I am made out of glass. It's been an issue in the past. It's good now. I did hurt my hip playing pickup basketball, but I know how to handle it now, so it's OK. So I made.
00:24:19
Speaker
Resilience, I started really working on it in 2020. Came out in 2021. I started releasing stuff. I was kind of releasing it here and there. Just kind of navigating, especially after the pandemic where everything was so insecure, where it's like the acting industry is very slowly ramping back up. I'm in Chicago where there is a lot of improv, so I'm being able to get back on these stages. And now I'm making music more and more, and then I'm starting to get in touch with some bigger artists. I'm like really taking it seriously.
00:24:49
Speaker
And acting wise, the work slowed down a little bit. I did some national commercials, which is very cool, and getting auditions for all these things. But my focus kept shifting to the fact that, all right, I'm not getting these auditions that I want. I'm not able to do all these
Planning Music Events and Community Engagement
00:25:07
Speaker
stuff. Well, the things I do have control over are going well, which is music, which is improv. Because I control when I go on stage with improv. I have control over how the story goes.
00:25:17
Speaker
So in late 2021, I don't remember, I joined the cast of a show at Second City called Shamilton, which is through a company called Baby One's Candy. It is a fully improvised hip-hop musical.
00:25:32
Speaker
because all of the things that I love combine together into one. So we get the suggestion of anyone at all, real, fictional, historical figure, literally anyone you can think of that is Wikipedia famous. And we improvise as if Lin-Manuel Miranda wrote Hamilton about them. So I started doing that every week at Second City.
00:25:51
Speaker
Which gave me so many reps freestyle rapping in front of people and that kept reinforcing like oh Okay, like I already love hip-hop I'm already able to like go pass out my business cards after these shows and now people are able to come to these shows and see me at my best at the things that I love doing the most which is performing acting comedy and rap so combining those together became a Very big thing for me
00:26:19
Speaker
And that snowballed into now I teach freestyle rap workshops to high school kids all over the place. I've been all over the world doing that. It led to me like really taking music seriously. I had an opportunity to so as I've been releasing all of these music, all of this music working with these different
00:26:38
Speaker
artists. I was able to very early on work with a guy named Luke Gaughan, who's an incredible artist, and another artist named Sylvan Lequeux, who's also an incredible artist. Both people had listened to a lot before that. They jumped in a song of mine called Haunted, which
00:26:54
Speaker
still one of my favorite songs I've made. At that point, it was easily the biggest song that I had made. And then I was able to work with Luke Gaughan a lot more after that. And all of that stuff kept building on itself. All the improv stuff kept building on itself. And I just watched a little bit as some of the acting stuff kind of went by in the rearview mirror. And I'm like, you know what?
00:27:15
Speaker
I am having so much more fun doing this because I control it all. And the fact that I took the time to sit down and learn how to mix, how to master, how to have complete control over this means that I do it on my schedule. I do it as much as I am motivated to do it. And I am a very motivated person, so I end up doing a lot of this. And it has
00:27:39
Speaker
snowballed into, I had an opportunity back in early 2023 to go to Heaven Studios in Detroit and record a song with Royster Five-Nine, who was one of my favorite rappers of all time.
00:27:55
Speaker
Ryber and I were in my basement playing that Bad Meets Evil album from 2011 and we're like wrapping it back and forth. We're studying the lyrics, we're freaking out about it. And then go like just nine years later and I'm in the studio with him, sweating profusely on edge, showing him beats that I have made and watching him like react and bump his head to them, completely surreal. So.
00:28:24
Speaker
All of that to say it has I have
00:28:28
Speaker
transformed my life through music, been able to fully invest in it. The past year of my life has been me completely uprooting everything that I had. I cut all my ties in Chicago, I still love all the people there, still, eventually one day, would love to move back there, but I got to the point where my album came out in September called Priorities, which features Royster Five-Nine on that album, a bunch of self-produced tracks that are
00:28:58
Speaker
that take what I did in the first album and just, I believe, really raise the bar. Since then, making a ton more songs. I've worked with Futuristic. I have another song with Luke Gaughan that just became my first song to 100,000 streams. The song is called Baddest. And then back in November, I moved out here to LA to really take this seriously. I've started producing for various artists. I'm still doing Shamilton and Baby Wants Candy out here at Upright Citizens Brigade in LA.
00:29:27
Speaker
all the improv stuff, I still audition for things and still take that very seriously, but it has really turned into all music. So that is how I got here today. That is a heck of a mile long for sure.
00:29:42
Speaker
But so you touched upon an issue i think is very important for people to understand is that it sounds like you're in a pretty bad place after you know covid hits and also looking at the issues with control and with we talk about with the people who interpret certain things as stressful versus non stressful and.
00:30:00
Speaker
And that with patience for instance and health and having no control over the pain that all these problems and they feel the only control over it and that's what makes him freak out scared and such and people's careers if they feel their help us in the careers they feel that you know lack of control in the career they feel depressed and they're you know they're not motivated and then when you're able to find that control it sounds like for what you just listen to your motion right now i mean you sound incredibly excited happy and it's a sense of power too but
00:30:29
Speaker
Yeah, to me, the the keyword is autonomy. I really, really believe in autonomy, creating your own work, owning your master's really, I believe in just like, if you want to do something, find a way of doing it. Don't wait for permission. If you wait for permission, right, it's going to be a lot longer. And then you're going to look back and be like, well, why was I waiting for so long when I could have just gotten up and done it? We'll be right back after this message.
00:30:58
Speaker
Founded in 1957, School Health Corporation has been dedicated to helping school-based health professionals keep their students healthy for athletic performance. As a national full-service provider of health supplies and services, school health's comprehensive offerings include hydration supplies to prevent heat illnesses, sports medicine, recovery and rehabilitation equipment, and school safety infographics for our athletes and the arts community.
00:31:26
Speaker
School Health provides more than just products and resources for performing artists and musicians.
Live Performances and Authenticity in Hip-Hop
00:31:31
Speaker
They also offer training, advisory services, and exceptional customer care for those supporting performers on school campuses. For more information, please visit www.schoolhealth.com. And now back to our show.
00:31:49
Speaker
As far as in hip-hop music itself, and obviously you get into a level now where you're going to start probably collaborating with more people who produce, you know, you're producing your own stuff. So how do you go about like trying to expand, like taking the next step? You got this album out since September. And, you know, it's obviously there's always pressure like,
00:32:06
Speaker
Go every every single step of your car needs to be a step forward so how do you look at that now and take that challenge on do you have to like do you think within yourself are you trying to look up reach out for others to help you with that process or how does that work for you.
00:32:22
Speaker
Mike and I have definitely learned a lot in the last year and a half, specifically in the last six months, where I've been releasing a lot more consistently. A lot of my songs with these bigger artists have started coming out. I've made all these life changes, moved to a new city, and that has taught us a whole bunch about a lot of that. The biggest thing I've found is routine and consistency in order for me to
00:32:50
Speaker
function, I need to have routine and consistency. I need to be able to create schedules and stick to my schedules. And part of that is having control over my schedule. So having that ability to, especially as a personal trainer, being able to be like, all right, I need to take this time off because I have these various jobs I need to do. I need to travel for this or that reason.
00:33:20
Speaker
Having the ability to have that control over my time is really important. And the more successful I become as an artist, as an independent artist specifically, the more control I need to have over my time, over my budgets, over our marketing materials, over everything.
00:33:41
Speaker
I do intend to work with a ton more people, and as I keep growing, more and more people get to know me and stuff, but I do take a lot of pride in being self-produced. I really look forward to collaborating with more people and working on more projects and everything like that, but my focus is definitely to be able to continue my trend of producing all my own albums and having
00:34:08
Speaker
full control over every sound that you hear when you're listening to my music. Can I add something to that, Derek? Because I think you make a really good point. I think what he's saying also, Doc, is it's a theme that's stayed with us throughout his whole musical journey, if you will, up to the show that we're doing. The whole motivation to be able to do this show was to not only give back to Detroit and do something for the community, but also to have control over our own thing.
00:34:35
Speaker
We wanted to have control over our own show, we're independent, we wanted to plan it ourselves. We put together the whole thing from the ideation phase until May 18th when it's going to be live. The point of the show is to lift up independent music artists in Detroit. I think in our Jabs Jam and our bio on our Eventbrite page, you'll notice that it says,
00:34:57
Speaker
We're trying to start a little bit of a movement here with this show. Every year we want to grow it a little bit. We want to get a little bit more of a presence inside the city in terms of being that independent train, if you will, that's always running. And if there's artists that are talented in Detroit that are still independent, we want them to know about our show and potentially even maybe performing it one day. That's kind of the goal. If we can get a bunch of independence on this in the future,
00:35:21
Speaker
that'd be really cool. So in that same vein of Derek talking about having control over his schedule and his time and his music and things like that, it's also important for us to have control over the show as well. I think that's a big part of why we decided to do this is to empower ourselves and to also empower other independent artists in Detroit to show them, hey, you know what I mean? We're out here doing it. Join us or start your own independent show. We'd love to support you any way that we can.
00:35:47
Speaker
So how much are you doing as far as live performances with helping to support your music? Because I know that's one of the big things that people talk about with the streaming aspect of music now that artists are using streaming as a way to actually market their music so that you can go see them show and listen to them perform. And that's where a lot of the money is nowadays. From both of you guys' perspective, how do you see the live aspect of performance playing into how your career is going to develop?
00:36:20
Speaker
In today's day and age, in terms of the content that is being made and used to market, there's been a huge shift towards short form content.
Improv's Influence on Songwriting
00:36:29
Speaker
I've seen so many people just abandon music videos altogether because they get way fewer views than just something on TikTok. I can attest to that too. They cost less money and get better reach to just make short form content. But I'm a big believer in
00:36:41
Speaker
I think that's a really good question.
00:36:50
Speaker
In the event, the environment creating the best possible event is everything. Being there in person, there's nothing like it. That is what it's all about. It's being able to get people together and collect each other in community and unite in that way. It's the same reason why, so I do a ton of improv and I hate watching like filmed improv.
00:37:16
Speaker
because it's not the same. When you're in the room, you can feel the emotion, you can feel, you're all in it together. You're helping create this environment, you're helping create all of it. I don't even like watching concert videos because it's like, I just feel left out. I just would rather be there. Being in the environment is always paramount. Mike, do you have more to add to that?
00:37:38
Speaker
No, I was going to say I couldn't have said it more perfectly about, you know, bringing the community together and stuff like that. You know, in terms of live music in the music industry, I think that we saw almost a little bit of a shift to virtual concerts. And I thought for a minute that this was back in like maybe late 2021 kind of thing, like, you know, Travis Scott did his Fortnite concert, we were starting to see the rise of some of these like, you know,
00:38:01
Speaker
digital shows, if you will. And I thought those were going to really take over. Turns out they didn't really. I haven't seen one of those since Eminem did his Fortnite concert maybe eight months ago or maybe almost a year ago. Now is a long time ago. Yeah, I could be wrong about that. But I'm really actually quite glad about that. Like, you know, there was the the member of the versus Derek, those those freestyles that they like that they used to do over the pandemic where they did them on Instagram live. I think they were called the versus freestyles. I can't remember.
00:38:29
Speaker
But like that was another one of those like digital shows that people were trying to produce and I thought wow These are really gonna blow up This is gonna be a wave and then it ended up not being like people are getting back out to live shows I mean we see Coachella just happened this last weekend and it was absolutely packed there So I actually am really really excited about like the future of live music I was a little worried about it in 2021 when I started seeing all these like online concerts and kind of like Derek I'm like, I don't want to watch it through a computer screen, you know, I want to be there and so
00:38:59
Speaker
There's nothing like being there. That's what we're trying to accomplish, I think, with our show also is like, come and just have a great time. It's an experience. You know what I mean? It's really kind of, I think, revolved around that.
00:39:11
Speaker
So then how do you guys define hip-hop as far as when you say you're a hip-hop artist? So obviously rap can be part of it. Sometimes it's not. But I'm just curious what you guys take is on this, because how do you define hip-hop in your minds? Because it does seem to be very malleable, and it can fit a lot of different categories.
00:39:33
Speaker
Oh yeah, for sure. For instance, we saw an SNL dancer I work with and take care of. She was performing with 21 Savage, and she was up there on stage dressed as a black swan, ballet dancer. And then there was a choir to her right, and then to the left, there was a set of strings. And then there was 21 Savage singing red rum over and over in the middle of all of it. It was like this surreal, beautiful mix of all these different styles and genres as totally hip-hop, but it's totally taking hip-hop in a way that I have never seen on TV before.
00:40:02
Speaker
It's just as an example. That's a great question. Yeah, I don't really know how to define it. I'm not the authority on what makes something hip-hop. I guess it would be like, you know, when you hear it, like, you just feel it. It's a feeling more than anything. I mean, there's such a long, beautiful history that brought hip-hop to what it is today that's
00:40:31
Speaker
I've been going on for over 50 years. But in this day and age, styles blend, artists change, and people draw from so much. I would say that I'm a hip-hop artist because what are my biggest influences are hip-hop artists. So I'm influenced by hip-hop artists, and so what I make, I see as just, it's art, and I'm influenced by hip-hop artists, so I guess it's hip-hop. But it can be whatever, I guess, anyone
00:41:00
Speaker
says it is. I've never been a fan of putting art in a box and labeling it something and putting it on a shelf. It all is what it is. Good music is good music. I'm a big believer that I love all kinds of music. Most of what I listen to isn't even necessarily hip-hop. And a lot of people will hate on metal. They hate on country. Good music is good music. Something's a good song. It's just a good song. That's the end of it. Who cares what it's defined as?
00:41:29
Speaker
I love it. It's an interesting question you asked. That's a really, really good question because you think of someone like Drake, right? What category is Drake and is Drake a rapper? I don't know if you can really call him just a true rapper. I mean, he makes R&B hits that he's bigger than every other R&B artist that's out today. You know what I mean? I can't name an R&B artist bigger than him. So the question around what is hip hop is
00:41:53
Speaker
like I don't have an answer for it right now but I just think that's so interesting because like you know there's like the aspects to it right there's lyricism and emceeing there's beatboxing there's breakdancing there's how you could argue fashion even and I can't remember the fifth one but um there's these elements to it that like you know have like Derek said kind of historically been always a part of it but you know like also he said it's changing so much like Derek sings in a lot of his songs
00:42:16
Speaker
You know what I mean? But he's still a rapper, you know? But he's not only a rapper. So it's interesting. I think rap is one of those genres where it's really easy to branch out from it because it's so dynamic already. Right. Are you looking at Post Malone?
00:42:31
Speaker
Oh, great example. You see, I see a picture. I'm like, Oh, okay. So this is, I'm just, I'm expecting something like turning on and like, whoa, this is not quite expected. Or another one, DJ Khaled. I mean, everyone says, you know, DJ Khaled makes hip hop albums with Justin Bieber's on a lot of his albums. Right? Yeah. Justin, you know, Justin Bieber is he, I mean, he might be a hip hop artist in a way. We don't know. So I think that it's so, it's so, you know, that's the beautiful thing about hip hop. The right is it's so eclectic.
00:42:57
Speaker
is that there's so many different elements to it that I think the beauty of it is that, like Derek said, I don't know how to define it. Well, the funny thing is just this recent hubbub or ado or brouhaha in my old archaic terms about Beyonce's new album and having her style being involved. She made a country album. I listened to it. I'm like, well, I guess you could say it's country, but
00:43:21
Speaker
I don't know how to define it, which is what your point is, Derek. I think it's good music. It's a very good album. But I was like, why do I call this? I don't know what to call it. It's fascinating. Sorry, Derek. I know you're about to say something. I dive so deep, Doc, into the subgenres. I get so nerdy about the subgenres. I think hip hop is
00:43:46
Speaker
Maybe there might be, what, 50 subgenres? There are so many different styles of music you can combine with hip hop. Right. You know what I mean? I mean, you can rap over no beat. You can rap over pots and pans. It doesn't matter. It's so diverse in its sound. Derek, do you think the improv process, so it sounds like you're based your improv home at Second City then? Or are you at I.O.? Or where is your home in improv?
00:44:15
Speaker
Both actually. I studied at IO for two years. I took a lot of classes at Second City as well. And I did most of my performing at those two and then a little bit at the annoyance too. So a lot of performing at those big three. Yes, annoyance theater is awesome too. I spent three and a half years at Second City, Detroit. And so yeah, that's why you're like, when you start talking musical improv, some of my favorite classes by far were the musical improv classes.
00:44:40
Speaker
And so but I found that like in my creativity when I was writing And also doing even when I see patience all my improv skills have been invaluable in that in that realm And so I'm wondering if like if you are using some of your improv lessons in when you are creating your music Do you find that helps you? Create a flow or where you're designing your flow or how do you like what's your creative process when you're creating music? Oh
00:45:07
Speaker
Improv comes into it constantly improv is always just it like that's how I began making music That's how it is. It is is nowadays. It's just it's all improv. It's just figuring out like, okay great I have I'm gonna I'm gonna start with something great just you just have to make a choice I mean the first rule in improv, you know, yes, and obviously but right but like
00:45:30
Speaker
In musical improv, the music starts playing. You're about to start a show. You're going to do an, I'm going to do an entire hour long musical. People can get very in their heads and very afraid of like, what do you have to do? You have to know, people think like, oh, I have to know how the entire story is going to go. No, you don't. You just have to make one choice.
00:45:50
Speaker
All you have to do is make one choice. Then you make the next choice. And then you make the next choice. And it just builds on itself until it becomes something. That's exactly how I approach music. I find something. I just make a choice. I start with something, whether it's a drum beat, whether I find a nice sample that I want to flip, whether I just pluck out something on my MIDI and make like a bass line. I just start with something and I say yes to that. And then I build off of it.
00:46:20
Speaker
And then usually what happens is I get to a point where I'm like, something doesn't quite click. I like these parts. I don't like these parts. Great. I'm going to scrap this. I'm going to rework this a little bit and I'm going to keep building it. That's also how I've started writing my verses. So I used to be very.
00:46:34
Speaker
I'm still very meticulous about my verses but I used to write them and then like and like really have like ideas about what I wanted it to be and then I would like kind of mold the verse around that and then I would like put it on beats but there was always that kind of like dissonance to them where it's always like oh the beat the verse doesn't
00:46:55
Speaker
quite fit over the beat or vice versa. And then it got to the point where I started making the beats first and just writing the verses to the beats. And to me that became, that gave me so much more continuity on how I create songs. Because then the beat really fits with
00:47:16
Speaker
with the verse and vice versa, then they start to feel like one thing, like one piece, because the verse was written and inspired by the music that exists. I've actually recently started doing the opposite, where like a couple of verses that I had written over other things, I've started building beats to that and started building that direction. But when I walk into studios with other musicians, with other rappers, I used to have 50 verses ready.
00:47:44
Speaker
Now I walk in with nothing. I have ideas. I have, mainly I just have the ability to create and say yes and and to collaborate. And I come in with the willingness and a flexibility where I'm like, great. I no longer have that like anxiety about like, I have to have this whole verse written. I have to have the perfect verse. And I just know
00:48:08
Speaker
great I'm gonna step up to the mic and I'm gonna just write a line or two I'm just gonna make a choice and then from there I will take a second I'll figure out great what comes next what's the next part of the story what's the next flow that I want to go from here and then I started to build it line by line through the verse so many artists so many rappers so many people who want to be musicians who want to write they get so
00:48:30
Speaker
I used to get so anxious about like, I want to have the whole verse done now. You don't write an entire verse at once. You don't have the entire verse already ready. You write it a line at a time. You only have to write one sentence, and then you have to write the next sentence. And just the next sentence, you build it line by line, and eventually it's done.
Balancing Creativity and Business as an Independent Artist
00:48:52
Speaker
So I've started doing it where I'm in the studio as it's going along, and then after about an hour, I have written and recorded the verse line by line as it goes along. And oftentimes then I'll listen to it be like, okay, I love this part. This part I'm not so sure about. Something's itching at me. Great, I'm gonna listen to that feeling. I'm gonna make a new choice. Even if I am really tied to the lyrics that I wrote there, I'm gonna either find a better way of saying it, or I'll be like, great.
00:49:19
Speaker
This idea, this concept, this lyric, it's not gonna die if I take it out right here. I'll just save it. I'll put it in my backpack and it'll come around later. I'm a huge believer that every idea has a place. And if you just save them all, like George Carlin kept a notebook and wrote down everything, every single idea. And I believe that every single idea has a place. The song that I just released, Blue, it came out two weeks ago.
00:49:46
Speaker
The first verse on that song I wrote in 2018 when I was a senior in college and that verse I never found the place for it and it just stuck with me I didn't change a single word from what I originally wrote. I knew it had a place I just the rest of my production hadn't caught up to it yet the rest of my my ability to do it my My mixing my mastering my beats hadn't caught up to it. So it finally found its place six years later. So I
00:50:13
Speaker
All ideas have a place. It's all improv. Just say yes, make a choice. Just make one choice. That's all you got to do. So Michael as manager, how do you help Derek stay productive? And how do you like in your role as manager? How do you help his career?
00:50:30
Speaker
continuing to keep him sane and not burning himself out with all this incredible creative energy. Yeah. I mean, well, first of all, I should start by saying I'm not a manager. I'm a marketer. That's my passion. I'm a manager for one artist, and it's the guy who's on the interview with us today. I don't love managing. Actually, it's really not why I got into music at all. I took management classes because you learn about every part of the music industry in those classes.
00:50:56
Speaker
but I don't love like the responsibilities of a manager. You know what I mean? And I think also that working with him, we're so close. Like I don't, I don't, I don't feel like a manager. It just feels like we're making, you know what I mean? We're making moves. We're making music. We're, you know, we're doing this as buddies and things like that. So like, I think it's so really- As opposed to Colonel Tom and Elvis.
00:51:17
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's a different dynamic, you know what I mean? Yeah, something like that. It's a good dynamic. Right now, the point where he's at in his career is really interesting because he's getting to the point where one piece of content
00:51:34
Speaker
whatever next song it's gonna be to blow him up to get him to that next level is he's gonna this is gonna be like this is gonna be it like he's he's going to you know what I mean need someone to be there like as a full manager so I'm kind of preparing myself in the background for when that day comes to
00:51:50
Speaker
You know what I mean? Hop on and say, all right, here we go. Way to the races. And then obviously, you know, the goal is to grow the career further from there. But just like the day to day right now is mostly just it's a lot of like me helping consult. It's obviously with putting the show together. I've been a lot of my time has been, you know what I mean? Like organizing all of that. And that's been a lot of fun. But in terms of like, you know, quote unquote, managing him, it doesn't even really feel like that. It just kind of feels like
00:52:13
Speaker
kind of how it was in high school a little bit. Like we're just, we're making moves, we're making music and we're trying to have fun. And I think the thing that we're learning a lot, and I think Derek mentioned this six months, like, you know, learning a lot in the last six months.
00:52:23
Speaker
excuse me, is that there's real dollars and cents now that we hadn't seen in the past. And so we're learning how this is becoming a business. And it's not just like putting out songs anymore. It's like, okay, there's implications to every move that we make. And I think that's where, at least for me, and I think for Derek as well, but definitely for me, a lot of the learning has been, you know, because we've never, I mean, we've never, you know,
00:52:47
Speaker
called up a sponsor before and asked for money and said hey we're doing this show like you know that was this was the first time that we had done something like this or you know what I mean like gotten a venue like this and you know organize like you know a couple performers and like we're you know we're kind of just like figuring it out as we go and I think that dynamic of like we have we have really good communication that helps select your
00:53:07
Speaker
Working as a partnership, whether it's creative or not, you have to have good communication. You have to be on the same page. There has to be a lot of trust and patience because these are big decisions. These are not types of decisions that can be made like Willy Nilly. We have to talk about them and we have to understand that it's
00:53:25
Speaker
it's like it's like yeah it's weird it's like two friends working on stuff but the the stakes are real so it's it's an interesting dynamic you know and where he's at right now is like one piece of content and it's a weight of the races so i'm kind of like waiting in the wings a little bit because like as soon as it takes off there's going to be a lot more to do but right now it's kind of like what can we do
00:53:45
Speaker
as much as we can possibly do to get him prepared for when that opportunity comes, right? It's like everything that we can put in place, every little, you know, branding tip, like we're working on that, like, you know, in the near future kind of thing is like one of at least my next steps for him. And like things like that is like, how can we prepare him as best as possible for when that piece of content does blow up? Or when that studio does come to us and say, Hey, we really like what he's doing. Let's talk.
00:54:09
Speaker
then we'll be ready to go for it. You know what I mean? That's a lot of what I'm doing right now is like, okay, how do we organize this so that when someone does come to us, our ducks are in a row. Right. Yeah. So what's it take to put on a show? Like when you're putting the other, you know, the elements of like putting on a show, like, I mean, how complicated is that process? Because it sounds like you get in place, you show up, you tell your friends, you put a couple of things out and that's it. But it sounds like it's obviously a much more complicated endeavor than that.
00:54:36
Speaker
Well, first of all, you got to have a really good sponsor. That's the first thing you got to have. They're so hard to find, I tell you. They're tough to find, but the good ones, the gems are out there. I actually called John Snyder, one of my old professors. He was one of the ones that inspired me to get into music business as well, so shout out to John.
00:54:55
Speaker
one of the founding members of athletes in the arts. Absolutely. And so I'm putting it out there in the universe. John, please try to come to the show. I'm going to call you. Um, but, uh, I, uh, I basically called him and said, Hey, how do I do this? And he's like, all right, well, you know, first of all, don't overthink it.
00:55:13
Speaker
So what you were saying a little bit, Doc, is a little bit true. It is kind of like, all right, we have an idea for a show. We went and found a venue. And that was kind of the first step. And then after that, we started to ideate, all right, what's the vibe going to be? What's the mission of the show? What are the values? When it comes to marketing, Steve Jobs said it best. Marketing is about values.
00:55:35
Speaker
You know what I mean? And so that's what we established first. And then from there, we basically, you know, started to like, I started to get in touch with locals in Detroit. Like, hey, how much do speakers cost? Just asking around, you know, not even committing to anything. Just like, how much does this cost? I created an expenses sheet. Like, you know, I grabbed the template off of Google Sheets and literally just filled it in. Like, it was it was really just learn as you go, kind of like Derek was saying earlier, like, you know,
00:55:58
Speaker
the complete one thing move on to the next if you have to go to YouTube University to learn how to do it great figure it out and then we'll go from there so it really has been like you know uh how do I say this like DIY really figuring it out as we go and it's it's been a lot of learning but like you know the day-to-day is I'm talking with vendors I'm talking with other performers I'm talking with you know our venue owner and things like that and I'm really just like
00:56:23
Speaker
You know, I'm playing conductor. I'm making sure that all the pieces kind of fit together. And I'm also making sure most importantly that our vision is kept intact for what we want the show to be. You know, like I said, it's all about values. And so at the end of the day, what I'm doing on the back end, you know, making phone calls to, you know, Detroit entertainment companies or security companies and things like that.
00:56:42
Speaker
Really, what's always in the back of my head is, okay, this is what my show is really about. And I have to keep that in mind on all these conversations. So it's a lot of talking to people, which I like to do. I could talk to a brick wall for three hours. But I also do think it's fun things to talk about. It's kind of fitting a puzzle together a little bit.
00:57:03
Speaker
If you have a budget thing you're trying to work out, like right now we're trying to move budget from one part of the show to the other to kind of get a little bit more creative with some of our lighting perhaps. So like we're always trying to figure out not only how to improve it, but how to keep it going in terms of our vision. Right.
00:57:17
Speaker
Yeah, especially it sounds less complicated than when it gets to the level of like involving Ticketmaster and, you know, guilds. Oh, absolutely. I'll shout out Eventbrite. I don't know anyone over there. They're just a great app. And I mean, they've made this process so easy, you know, putting the actual event together and selling tickets to them has been great.
00:57:36
Speaker
Like, you know, all the vendors that I've been working with have been really good to us so far. You know, so I'm really lucky that it's kind of been a little bit. I'm not going to say it's easy, but I'm going to say it's been some of the challenges have been proactively mitigated by having good partners.
00:57:53
Speaker
Amazing stuff, I tell you. But going back to the hip hop career part for a minute, I wanted to ask you guys what you thought about, with your experience now, you're moving into this career, this realm, this music genre, this industry. And one of the things that we've seen on our show over the past few years, as we talk to different guests, is that sometimes artists and people who go into the music industry, especially when they're
00:58:19
Speaker
a genre like rock and roll or hip hop or some of those genres of music where it seems like the lifestyle needs to match the music. This is how you need to be liked in order to be true and authentic and real. A lot of times, it's an unhealthy lifestyle. Obviously, music in general, if you're doing gigs at night,
00:58:44
Speaker
One of the problems we always saw with artists is that they would have their best form of nutrition be a waffle house at two in the morning after a gig. They want to eat dinner beforehand because they're nervous and they're amped up for the performance. And then they go to bed and wake up at noon the next day, or worse, they have to travel next day to the next gig.
00:59:02
Speaker
So what has your experience been so far as far as, you know, is there pressure to like conform to a certain like hip hop like lifestyle or do you see a lot of people falling into that? What do you what's your opinion of this so far?
00:59:16
Speaker
I really believe in authenticity in the music and in my image and all of it. And that's what I've had to find over the years, is the more I make music, the more I dive into this career, the lifestyle of actually making music full time, it gets easier and I get more and more fans, more and more reach, the more authentic that I am.
00:59:42
Speaker
because I feel that's what really strikes a chord of people, what resonates with
Future Plans and Celebrating Wins
00:59:46
Speaker
people. So I haven't, at first when I was doing this maybe years ago, I was putting pressure on myself to be like, oh, well, I'm, I don't know, maybe I'm a little nerdy to be a rapper or maybe I'm like, I'm too this or that to rap. But then I see people who are being authentic with who they are, namely like Watsky, Connor Price, people who I'm like, oh, I love their music.
01:00:10
Speaker
that's the kind of stuff I want to do. And they're just being so authentic about who they are, why they're doing this. But it does take a lot of stamina to be able to keep up this kind of grind, especially being independent. Because I don't have the help of a
01:00:26
Speaker
of a giant marketing company. I don't have the funding of Sony or Universal. I'm doing all of this myself, funding all of this myself, making it happen, making all of the content, mixing, mastering, writing the music, producing, doing all of it.
01:00:45
Speaker
And that's a lot. And it takes a very healthy routine and a very regimented schedule. And I'm not going to lie and say that I stick to it all the time or that it's easy. It is not easy. It is not for everyone. It takes a ton of discipline and it's very taxing physically and emotionally a lot of the time. But
01:01:08
Speaker
I would not rather be doing anything else with my life or with my time. It is so gratifying to be able to look at my Spotify for Artists page and see that 10,500 people have listened to my music this month. In the past 28 days, 10,500 people listened to my music that I wrote, recorded, produced, mixed, and mastered myself from my bedroom.
01:01:35
Speaker
Wow. And that is about 10, 15 times higher than it was six months ago. And that is what the grind brings, but it also takes a lot of self-care and it takes really
01:01:51
Speaker
really good people around you. It takes people who are able to check in on you and take care of, speaking first person, take care of me when I need them because there are ups and downs, there are ebbs and flows. There's so many challenges that come with it. I call Mike all the time and half the time I'm just like, dude, I am exhausted. I do not want to go out and spend four hours making content today. That sounds exhausting and it sounds stupid.
01:02:17
Speaker
And I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it and it takes a lot of internal motivation external motivation but I cannot argue with the results and with
01:02:32
Speaker
the opportunities that has created for me and the ways that it's changed my life, not just in the past five years or the past year, even in the past six months, how everything looks totally different now. But yeah, it has all sorts of challenges. It takes a lot.
01:02:49
Speaker
someone listening to this, if you're looking to be an independent artist, and if you're looking to be self-produced to completely own 100% of your music, then it's going to take 100% of your time and energy. It's going to be 100% of you working on it. If I was working with other producers, if I was working with other marketing people, I would have people taking the other, you know, the other,
01:03:17
Speaker
work off of my shoulders. If I was just a rapper, not to say that people who only rap are just rappers, they're doing so much for their craft. But I am not only a rapper, I am all of it. But it means that I also get to keep.
01:03:34
Speaker
all of it. And it means that when I work with other people, they have to give me a split of it. But when I make my own stuff, no one else gets any of that. And I can do it all in my own schedule. There's no waiting for anyone to get things back to me. But it also means a lot of long days, a lot of days where I feel like nothing's happening. When I hit road bumps, there's no one for me to be like, hey, you're not holding up your end of the bargain. It's like, nope, it's all on me. So I better get back to it.
01:04:03
Speaker
But it takes a lot of self-care, a lot of exercising. I lean a lot on my personal trainer knowledge to be able to keep myself fit and regimented in my schedule. What's your go-to for blowing off steam as far as you have a rough day? You're like, okay, I just need to let loose here. What's your favorite thing to do? To really blow off steam?
01:04:28
Speaker
I will play Fortnite with my friends and my brothers. We have a buddy, Bayard, who I'll play Fortnite with a lot. My brothers play a bunch of their friends play, and I never really played it that much until the past six months or so moving out to LA. I didn't know a ton of people here, so that's become a very fun, cathartic, okay. The stakes are so low. I'm doing other stuff that's so stressful, and it's like making music can feel like
01:04:57
Speaker
Sometimes it's really fun and beautiful and exciting and I love that whole process and then other times It's like I'm feeling the pressure of the rest of my life as I am writing these lyrics Because I don't have any other options now
01:05:13
Speaker
It's this or Bust, so... Yeah, Rent is Do. Yeah, yeah, the Rent is Do. He just put out a song called Rent is Do, Doc, and he rapped about how this... You know what I mean? Like, gotta do what you gotta do. Right. Very true. Yeah. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. I do have one thing to say real quick. I do have to leave in a couple of minutes. I have somewhere to be at 7.30, and so just FYI, if you guys want to keep talking without me, go for it, but I only have a couple of minutes. Well, actually, we're gonna be wrapping up here. I was gonna ask you, Mike, what do you think you can blow off steam?
01:05:42
Speaker
That's a good one. I love playing soccer. That's one of my favorites. Going on walks is good. I love listening to music to blow off steam. That's one of my favorite things. I'll take old beats and I'll try freestyling with them, but usually a good run, a good walk, playing soccer or something like that does it for me. I like to be active. I need to sweat it out. If I sweat it out, I can
01:06:05
Speaker
It's like a thing in my brain or whatever. This might sound weird. If I'm sweating it out, physically I'm sweating things out. I'm sweating out the problem too. So I like to do that. And yeah, so that's probably how I blow off steam. I would say one thing to add to what Derek said earlier about just having good people around you if you want to be independent, if you want to do this, I would say two things. Number one, reiterate, have the right people around you. I call him just as much as he calls me.
01:06:31
Speaker
And I would say celebrate the wins, whether they're small or large, celebrate them, because nothing's guaranteed. I mean, you might blow up, you might not. I mean, the hard work obviously is paying off and we're celebrating those wins along the way. And that I think also keeps us going because it reminds us of the progress that we're making. We remind ourselves all the time of the progress that we're making. We have to continue to be excited about that in order to get excited about the future. So I think it's a bit of a psychological thing, but celebrate the small wins for yourself.
01:07:01
Speaker
That was great advice. Absolutely. People forget that all the time, I think. Well, there's also hard on ourselves. Instagram is like, I heard this quote once and I won't carry on too long, but Instagram is like comparing everyone else's highlight reel to your blooper reel. That's how you feel when you scroll on Instagram.
01:07:21
Speaker
Also, forget social media. I'm not a fan of any of it, but you gotta have it. I feel like, yeah, there's so many ways to compare yourself to others now. There's so many things out there that can be toxic for progress. And I think if you celebrate the small wins and the large wins with your team, that's one of the best things that you can do.
01:07:41
Speaker
That's great advice. So after May 18th, do you have anything else on the horizon planned right now or are you still kind of forming it? Well, TBD. We definitely want to do more shows. And so that's something that Derek and I are going to continue to talk about. I don't know about right after May 18th, but we're definitely working on like future. Oh, actually, that's that's actually not true. We are working on stuff in the future. It's just, you know, it's in the ideation phase.
01:08:05
Speaker
Yes, I also am, just the very next week, I'll be helping support a really, really talented artist friend of mine named King Trey, who's doing a co-headliner with Freshwaters at Lincoln Hall. I'll be doing a support act, I'll be doing one song there, which will be
01:08:27
Speaker
Really, really cool. So basically right after May 18th, we're driving over to Chicago so that I can perform at that really, really cool venue. I think it seats like, what, 550 people? Yeah. That'll be pretty awesome. I'm his manager. I knew he was doing that show, by the way. I knew that. I knew he was doing that. I just wanted to make sure he was paying attention. I just wanted to make sure he was paying attention. You'll be there with me. I'll be at the show. So I definitely know that I'm going to that.
01:08:57
Speaker
Awesome. Well, Derek, Michael, thank you so much for your time. I'm so excited about the show on May 18th. I'm so excited to meet you guys in person. I'm very excited to see your career blossom, Derek. Good luck to you both. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you so much for having us. Very nice talking to you. Yeah, thank you for having us. Got you. And you can go to my music anywhere you stream music, D-E-M-K-O, Demko on all the platforms, Demko Music on TikTok and Instagram and stuff.
01:09:22
Speaker
May 18th, Jabs Jim is 7 p.m. That's the show. Come on out. Alex Allen, Lex the Radical is his name, and Derek Demkowitz, Demko, are gonna be tearing it up. It's gonna be awesome. Looking forward to it. Thanks, guys. Yeah, thank you. And that ends another show. We'd like to make our sponsor, School Health, for making the show possible. Remember, if you like what you hear, please feel free to leave a review and tell us. For Yasi Ansari, I'm Stephen Karaginas, and this has been the Athletes of the Arts podcast.