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The Classically Trained Trainer with Ash Wang
79 Plays3 months ago
Join Yasi and Steven as they welcome strength & conditioning coach Ash Wang onto the show. They discuss Ash's career journey through classical violin training, studying neuroscience, making Soulcycle playlists, building a strength and nutrition coaching business, writing her recipe book, and following her intuition all along the way.
For Ash's book "Alimentary: A Nutrition and Recipe Companion For the Athlete", go to https://www.ashwang.fit/shop
For Ash's website, go to https://www.ashwang.fit
Instagram: @ash_lucy_wang
Bio: Ash Wang comes with 7 years of professional experience in the health industry, alongside an educational background in Neuroscience and classical violin.
She started her professional journey with in-person training and group fitness in the high-octane NYC market and has since transitioned her business to being solely-based online, removing geographical barriers. Ash coaches individuals from all walks of life, improving nutritional habits and training performance.
Ash’s fitness journey began in dingy college gyms, not knowing the difference between a barbell and a dumbbell, experimenting with different styles of strength-training and dabbling in “powerbuilding” for years. At 25, she landed on the sport of Olympic Weightlifting and has fallen in love with the obsessive, technically complex, and thrilling nature of the sport — She has not looked back since.
Outside of the gym, Ash is an avid consumer of scientific research literature, spending too much time (and money) at her local coffee shop delving into various topics of interest including, but not limited to, gerontology, food politics, and food history. In her spare time, she loves writing and creating art.
She published her first Nutritional Coaching Guide & Recipe Book, and the hardbound edition comes out January 2025.
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Transcript
Introduction to Athletes in the Arts
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the Athletes in the Arts podcast, hosted by Stephen Karaginas and Yasi Ansari.
00:00:20
Speaker
Hello, everyone. Welcome to our podcast today. This is Stephen Karaginas, along with my co-host Yasi Ansari. I hope you're having a wonderful day and thank you for taking some time out to listen to our show. If you like what you hear, please feel free to leave a review and tell your friends. If you don't like what you hear, please keep it to yourself.
Consortium's Wellness Goals
00:00:37
Speaker
Athletes in the Arts is a consortium of sports medicine and performing arts medicine organizations working together to help improve the health and wellness of performing artists everywhere. So if you want more information, please go to www.athletesandthearts.com.
Exploring Successful Fitness Coaching
00:00:52
Speaker
So on our show today, we wanted to talk more about fitness coaching, what it takes to be a successful fitness coach, both online and in person.
Meet Ash Wang: Coach and Musician
00:01:01
Speaker
So we brought on our show today, one of the top trainers in Brooklyn, New York,
00:01:05
Speaker
Ash Wang, who is a certified strength and conditioning coach, as well as a nutrition coach. She has her own book, which is a nutrition and recipe companion for athletes called Elementary. And she's also a classically trained violinist, which makes her as athletes in the arts as you can get. Hi, Ash. We're so excited to have you this morning.
00:01:26
Speaker
Hi, how are you doing? I'm doing great. Thank you. So we have a ton to talk about today. And I want to start by having you share a little bit about your musical background. Can you tell us a little bit about what your journey in music was? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Um, I started out with classical violin when I was three, maybe four. Um, and,
00:01:54
Speaker
Frankly, I was coerced into doing it by my dad, who is also a classical violinist. And I guess he figured out that I had some natural abilities with it. I think that the way that he figured it out was one day he was playing on the piano, just doodling on the piano, and then I was able to repeat back the notes to him. And I guess
00:02:23
Speaker
That was a good sign. And then he was like, oh, like you, you could try out the violin. So I did. And then that was basically my entire childhood.
From Music to Neuroscience: Ash's Journey
00:02:33
Speaker
And I have kind of like a very, it's a, it's a interesting tense relationship with it all throughout my childhood and my teenage years. I ended up going to pre-college conservatory at Manhattan School of Music for a while. And then, yeah, that was, that was a thing.
00:02:53
Speaker
there was orchestra, and there was theory class, and there was ear training, and there was a little quartets. And then I did a bunch of music summer camps. And you know, the intention was very much like, you're going to take this very seriously slash potentially become a soloist for a long time. But that clearly did not
00:03:15
Speaker
I clearly had other plans for myself. So what did you like most about playing the violin when you were growing up or was it something that you felt, I guess, during your entire childhood that it was something you were forced to do? You may be totally honest. It was something that I was totally forced to do for a very long time. And it was because, like I said, I had a lot of natural talent for it. The teachers that I worked with
00:03:44
Speaker
Uh, the repeated feedback that I thought was that I had really good musicality, um, like a good sense of musicality and that I was able to express myself really well, even if my technique wasn't always perfect. Um, so I think, you know, technique is something that you can train in most things, but to be able to express yourself through an instrument in like a very specific style, I think, uh, is something that's much harder to teach. Um, so I think that's why it was pushed for so long.
00:04:14
Speaker
And I think at a certain point it was like, okay, we have invested literally thousands of hours into this thing. I might as well just like keep doing it, keep doing it. I think
00:04:30
Speaker
The aspects of it that I did enjoy were the performance aspects. I think I've always been like a bit of a show off as a kid. And then like that would be kind of reinforced by putting me on stage to perform and then getting that attention and then really enjoying the attention and then just like. I don't know, I think my my dad really like raised me to be like as
00:04:59
Speaker
Ambitious as it possibly could so violin was like a really nice competitive outlet in that sense And then so I enjoyed that part, but I think on the whole it was like a very lonely experience So you liked being seen when you were performing and it felt I guess at some point
00:05:21
Speaker
that the reinforcement of you having this natural ability, I wonder if that made you feel like you had to keep going in violin. And so what ended up happening at the end? What made you decide that this is not the path for me? Was it you woke up in the morning?
00:05:44
Speaker
I was pretty much forced to do it until I left for college. So until I was 17, I was in pre-college the whole time and it was very much like, okay, Ashley is going to go to school now. She's going to go study neuroscience. She doesn't want to practice hours and hours a day anymore. And I think
00:06:06
Speaker
I also remember having like a conversation with my, my violin professor at the time. It was like one of my last lessons with him. And he was just like, make sure you come back to me in a couple of years and tell me what you end up doing. He's like, cause I don't think you're going to do this, but like, I'd be really curious. And I was like, yeah, I'll let you know. I'll let you know. I'll let you know. Um, but even the thing is like, it's been, it's, it's become such a part of my identity that I don't.
00:06:34
Speaker
I would have a hard time not calling myself a violinist. And it took me a couple of years away from practice practicing to be able to get back to a place where I actually could build a positive relationship with it. Similar things for certain sports that I've been involved in, where it's just like, all right, we need to take several steps back and revisit this later on when we're not
00:07:05
Speaker
angry and hormonal and teenager. It's funny you bring up all these points because this is a tug of war all the time with people going through music training, right? Because you have people who are training you who see this talent and say, okay, I'm in this field. You can't waste your talent, Ash.
00:07:24
Speaker
You need to really utilize that. But then the process of musical training and learning scales all the time and can really be deleterious to a person's own pursuit of performing arts because performing arts has that, you got to want to do it to be able to create like that. So it seems like, did you think that the process of music training
00:07:48
Speaker
had that negative effect on you? If you've been a little bit more on your own earlier, you might have developed a healthy relationship with it. It's yeah, that's very possible. I think I think part of it is also just like
00:08:03
Speaker
you know, when you do something like classical, classical violin or classical anything in general, you're put into a lot of environments that are like intrinsically a bit stifling, and quite stuffy. And you know, there's like, certain like decorum that needs to be like had and you have to like dress a certain way. And I don't know if you have noticed, but like, I'm I don't really fit into that very easily. And
00:08:32
Speaker
Uh, I would prefer to, um, I dunno, sometimes I joke around and maybe I was meant to do jazz, but like, I find jazz to be incredibly chaotic and like, there's just, there's no way I'm, there's no way I could excel in that. I am far too neurotic as a human being. Um, but yeah, I, um, I think that maybe if I had been able to be taught in a more positive environment, um, and not just have so much like constant criticism.
00:09:02
Speaker
Maybe, maybe it would have had a better relationship with it. And I mean, I think that's the case for almost the pursuit of anything, right? It's like when, when the vast majority of the feedback that you're getting is like coming from a place of negativity and criticism all the time, then it's just like, it's exhausting. It's exhausting. And so I try to take, you know, the, the learnings that I have from my own musical training and like apply the opposite of what I received to my own clientele so that they don't have to experience the same crap.
Balancing Fitness and Music
00:09:32
Speaker
So I saw the reason why I discovered you in the first place, Ash was I saw a video on a channel called F stoppers that was a video where you are in it and you are working out and they were using this video as an example of like editing. And then your name pops up and they're showing how you're working out. You can't get a lift. You're doing Olympic weightlifting. And then you stop. You're playing violin for a bit. You relax. You get back to the weights and you lift again and you successfully make the lift.
00:10:05
Speaker
Yes, yes, this was a yeah, this is a campaign that I did for Panasonic. Okay. Yeah, that was a that was some work that I did for Panasonic.
00:10:16
Speaker
to help shoot their Lumix, I think, for Lumix camera. Yes. Thank you. Thank you for that. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So how does that seem to be an apt metaphor for what you are doing these days as far as music and fitness and such? Is that something that's more organic for you, or is that just something that you just fell into as a job? The fitness, the training stuff? Well, the video, actually. The video representing your combination of music and fitness.
00:10:46
Speaker
I treat them separately of course and if anything sometimes they will.
00:10:51
Speaker
Sometimes they will actually work against each other because with Olympic weightlifting, you have to lift very heavy weights. And so you're really stiff in your back, in your arms. And then whenever you're stiff in your entire upper body, this whole thing gets extremely tight and I can't do what I need to do. And actually part of the reason why I'm transitioning training modes now into endurance sports and endurance running is so that I can actually incorporate more music into my life again.
00:11:19
Speaker
um because the stiffness that is felt here uh makes it really difficult for me to to practice um but in terms of the way that they feed into each other i think nowadays if i'm going to practice it's like very intentional and i'm i'm actively trying to to get better at like certain passages and stuff so it it is equally as
00:11:47
Speaker
mentally taxing as training is. So the stressors have both kind of like compound each other. Yeah. It is nice to do something that doesn't involve me, you know, a barbell above my head and like the weight crushing down onto my back, which is also why I've been very into archery recently. Because it's like another thing that I can do that doesn't require me to back squat.
00:12:16
Speaker
So in what ways are you incorporating music today that allows for you to have a healthy relationship with it? I practice pieces that I actually like. In your room. That's a huge thing. I'm lucky enough to have a very bright, large living room that I can practice in where the acoustics sound really nice. So these days it's practicing fewer times per week and of course than I used to and
00:12:45
Speaker
Again, like working on pieces that I actually want to play because most of my life was spent being told which pieces to play. Right. And, uh, which, you know, I think is necessary when you're developing a musician, like there needs to be some kind of framework for people to follow. There are certain pieces and concertos that are going to be like much technically difficult than others that you have to like pass, but now I can.
00:13:10
Speaker
I'll just take whatever I want. And even if I'm actually not technically skilled enough to do it, I'll try it anyways. And that's a lot more fun for me than like playing, you know, Bach Partitas over and over. Has it become more of like a outlet for you now, where it's like a nice getaway from day to day life? Like, is it a form of self care now? That's a good question. It depends on how you define self care.
00:13:40
Speaker
Yeah. Everything that I do, whether it's my own actual training or my coaching or music, it's usually because I'm interested in growing. It's usually coming from a place of intellectual curiosity. So if you consider expanding my own technical prowess,
00:14:04
Speaker
certain pieces as a form of self-care, which I kind of do in a weird way. But yeah, I guess it's a form of self-care. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I don't know. I think I really, really like getting better at things. And so I have like 25 hobbies. But
00:14:26
Speaker
I also like these days I also go to more classical concerts than I used to. I will find like just like regular any kind of like songs that I like and like try to like make my own like violent covers of it and like try to be more creative with it as opposed to always reading sheet music.
00:14:47
Speaker
And what advice would you give to, I guess, just because we have so many people who might be listening to this and saying, wow, I, I get her, you know, I really understand where she's coming from. What advice would you give to someone who has a similar upbringing and and has family members who
00:15:07
Speaker
have been so skilled in a musical instrument and what does it take to be able to incorporate that back again after you have found your true calling and whatever career that may be? To like reintroduce the instrument back into your life? Exactly. So to take time away from it first? To not like force it? That it's okay, right? That it's okay to take time away from it. Yeah, I think giving yourself grace to do
00:15:36
Speaker
giving yourself grace in general is like a concept that I'm trying to get on board with for myself. It's something that I talk a lot about with my clients as well or anything, but I think it's also particularly apt here where it's like give yourself grace, but then also you have to reconcile with
00:15:56
Speaker
the very strong possibility that you won't sound as good as you used to. You won't be as technically proficient as you used to. Um, that's what I struggle with a lot. And so the way that I get over that is by playing more skills and warming up better. Um, but I think that, you know, a lot of times that people fall off like a fitness train and then they want to get back onto it and they get upset at themselves when they aren't able to do like when they aren't able to perform exactly as they were before. It's like,
00:16:24
Speaker
giving yourself a lot of grace, having a lot of patience with yourself and like really moving the goalpost and like adjusting your expectations on like how well you can play. Right. And then also
00:16:38
Speaker
I think experimenting with new pieces and looking at new music is really helpful because you actually don't have a previous point of comparison. You're kind of just starting from scratch. So I think that's also something that's been really helpful for me personally. Yeah, that's great advice.
Inspiration from Science Teachers
00:16:52
Speaker
So tell us about neuroscience. What led you to going to school for neuroscience? I read that and I was like, oh my goodness, this is so interesting. Were you interested in the brain, how the brain functioned? What led you?
00:17:08
Speaker
Into it. I'm, I'm just going to be so out right here. Like I, a lot of my motivations for doing things, like when I see them out loud, they seem, um, almost like trivial. Like it feels as if I have made a lot of like some really major life decisions based on like a whim. Um, and I think neuroscience might actually have been one of those things. Um, I, my dad was also, uh, a mathematician, big science guy. So science runs a little bit in the family.
00:17:38
Speaker
Um, when I was in high school, uh, one of my best friends was my physics teacher. And then my second best friend was my AP bio teacher. Um, and I just, I got along with them really well. And because I enjoyed their classes so much and because I, I just, I really liked and I respected them, uh, as really strong educators, I decided to do a biological science.
00:18:07
Speaker
And then by the time I got into school, I chose neuroscience because it's a relatively new field of science. So the novelty of the field itself attracted me.
00:18:18
Speaker
And then, um, I dunno, I thought psychology might be a little bit too easy. So I wanted to incorporate some, some hard sciences and chemistry into it. So I actually, I started out as pre-med, um, and then clearly that was too hard for me. So I dropped organic chemistry the second time around. Oh, organic chemistry, organic chemistry. Let's do. PTSD.
00:18:46
Speaker
The one class I needed tutoring for drives me not yet. Same, same. And I had to retake it. Um, and I didn't do very well the second time around and I was like, okay, my, my drivers for continuing with this pre-med are not strong enough. So I will dial it or rather not dial it down, but like shift directions a little bit, do neuroscience because I am really interested in the brain. Um,
00:19:14
Speaker
Frankly, I also, you know, when I was a wild, wild freshman student, there was.
00:19:23
Speaker
a lot of partying going on. And I was very fascinated by all of the things that you could do to your brain without getting too explicit. So yeah, honestly, I was just really interested in it. And I started reading all of this literature in neuroscience on my own time. And then it just became my major. And my intentions were to,
00:19:52
Speaker
potentially find a job in neuroscience after graduating. But at that point, something just told me that it wasn't going to be the right move for me. So I didn't end up pursuing it. So then how do you start in the fitness world?
Career Shift to Fitness Instruction
00:20:12
Speaker
You mentioned your clients, you coach, you have strength and conditioning coach, certification, all that stuff. So how do you get into how you start doing that, like as a business?
00:20:22
Speaker
How did I do it? Uh, again, just kind of on a whim and then I got really good at it. Um, I, that seems, I, I, I find myself like reflecting on like the last, you know, my, my twenties, which are about to end. And it seems like some, I like, as the major life decisions have been made that way. But, uh, anyways, I, um, I worked at like this random corporate job in New York after I left school. And all I knew was that I wanted to be in New York city. So I came here first and then I looked for a job.
00:20:50
Speaker
Um, which was a hell of a way to do it. Um, hated my job so much. I was so under stimulated. I would just bring like stacks and stacks and stacks of like economist magazines to work. And then I would just like read them between work assignments. It was awful. Um, it was terrible. And then I also ended up bringing a lot of like sheet music and like doing like the fingerings for it.
00:21:19
Speaker
in between my work assignments because I was like, well, I'm going to play this at some point. I might as well just figure out how I want to do this now. I took a soul. Are you familiar with soul cycle? Oh yeah. I took a soul cycle class one day and the music part of me like was like reignited somehow, not somehow. I took, I happened to have taken a class with an instructor whose music I really would identified with.
00:21:47
Speaker
Um, and at that point of my life, and even, even to this day, like electronic music has been like my, my main default, uh, choice. I don't know if it's like, uh, a violent pendulum swing response to the forest classical. I'm not really sure. Um, but, um, she played like the, she played like all of these songs in this class and I just like totally fell in love with it. And then in that moment I was straight up just like, I, I am going to be a soul side instructor, like literally after the first class.
00:22:17
Speaker
Um, and then so I kept on, I kept on writing classes, spent all of my paychecks, uh, on full cycle classes, cause they were $35 a class at the time plus shoes and water. And I got really good at it. And then I started, uh, I, at the time I was also just like going to the gym, like strength training, like doing like general strength training. And I noticed that I had a pretty natural ability at it, uh, despite the cycling as well.
00:22:46
Speaker
Um, so I ended up getting my, my first personal training certification out of again, intellectual curiosity and boredom. Cause I had so much free time from all of the work that I was not enjoying doing. Uh, and to be honest, I didn't intend it to be like a side hustle or anything. I literally just got the certification because I felt like I could do it. And then I got the certification and then, uh,
00:23:12
Speaker
A year and a half later, SoulCycle announced that they were doing auditions. So I was almost on the verge of getting fired from my corporate job because I pretty much just stopped participating. Right. And I was like, okay, like, this is like a perfect exit opportunity. So I quit my job. And I had six months of being unemployed.
00:23:40
Speaker
and obsessively writing classes and taking notes, taking mental notes, building my playlists and stuff like that. And then I auditioned and the audition process is extremely, extremely, extremely aggressive. But I just told myself, I was like, I'm not going to give myself a choice. I'm just going to, I have to make it. And then I did. And then, yeah, it, to this day,
00:24:10
Speaker
So it's like my time at SoulCycle was one of the hardest, most toxic and also most incredible and like beautiful experiences I've ever had. And typically those two things like come hand in hand, right? Yeah, it was, it was incredibly intense, torturous, amazing.
00:24:30
Speaker
vibrant dramatic time of my life because I was able to like make these playlists that I really wanted to. I was able to incorporate classical music in certain songs and certain classes and like share my love of that. I ended up performing my electric violin live in certain soul cycle classes and that got really popular. And yeah, I was able to like push music back into my life in ways that I really, really wanted to for a brief moment.
00:24:56
Speaker
How much did you enjoy of the performance part in the connection with the clients, with the people who signed up for class? How much did you like instructing them? The best.
00:25:04
Speaker
The best, like I said, always been center of attention kind of. And I think it's like, oh, dude, they're literally putting you on a podium. Right. And there's a literal spotlight on you. You're controlling the room. You're controlling the music. You're telling people what to do. It's like you're putting on a performance. But I think ultimately I gave like so many shits about my classes and like put so much into my craft. And that's also why it was so torturous because we were getting paid close to nothing.
00:25:32
Speaker
Um, like truly like close to nothing. We didn't have, uh, physical therapy. We did. I didn't, they didn't give me health insurance. They didn't give me a permanent schedule on purpose. Plausible. They can, they can play like plausible liability if they want to, but like, it's, it's very common knowledge that like, so cycle instructors are like regularly. Like seriously tortured. Um, yeah. And I guess that's what happens when you live under Equinox. Uh, it was the best time of my life. And then being kind of like semi center stage again was really cool.
00:26:03
Speaker
And then COVID hit and then I was like, okay, I don't have a job. And then I was just like, I'm just going to make my own job. I'm going to create my own company. And they did. That was really hard. That sounds like it. I figured it out. I figured it out. They just let you go officially or you just didn't go back. They did a couple of rounds of like firing people, letting people go, being like, Hey, like you underperformed, even though you didn't actually underperform. Um, so yeah.
00:26:33
Speaker
That's, that was that. And I think about, I like dream about teaching class all the time and like I still do. I'll still like make playlists for myself and like blend them together and like incorporate classical music and like do what I can just like for my own creative hobbies. So it sounds like you have an intellectual curiosity that just carries you from one interest to the other and you're always discovering more about yourself every step of the way.
00:27:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's cool. It's like, I feel like I have like a, yeah, I feel like I have a bunch of like identities that I have to explore, which a lot of like, I'm, I'm working on a podcast actually with, with my best friend who is also my, who is also my designer and co-editor of the ebook that I have. And a lot of what we want to do is discuss people's different identities outside of like their, their professional space and like what they're known for.
00:27:30
Speaker
Um, because ultimately I think those are the things that like make people, make people interesting. Cause like, I dunno, you can meet a lot of people who do a lot of like interesting things and like have hobbies, but that doesn't necessarily make them an interesting person, if that makes sense. Um, so we're seeing what we can do there, but I feel like I never really know what direction I'm going, but like, I feel really grounded, like in my own values and principles.
00:27:56
Speaker
which have a lot to do with intellectual curiosity so I feel like as long as I stick with that and as long as I roll with that I'm like pretty confident I will end up in the right places and like talking to the right people. Well when you listen to your intuition I feel in the end you look back and you're like oh that makes sense I went into I don't know I taught at SoulCycle for example I'm just you know
00:28:23
Speaker
it all, all these different pieces will lead to the bigger goal, right? So you ended up starting your own business, your
00:28:33
Speaker
helping people connect with themselves, feel better about their bodies. And so all of these things are just pieces of the bigger puzzle. But I actually resonate with the whole, I remember taking SoulCycle classes during a really challenging time of my life. And I remember Lindsey Sterling was playing in the background and it was like, we were going uphill and it was like this, like,
00:29:01
Speaker
this intense and passionate music. And I remember going up to the instructor and saying, what was that? And just falling in love with classical music, even for working out. It's very powerful. So I totally resonate. I get it. And as someone who took classes of someone who played a lot of classical music, it was
00:29:26
Speaker
a very inspiring time and you just let it all out in the class. So I get it. Yeah. The Endorphin, the Endorphin High is Israel. Yeah. So tell us about some of the difficulties of building your own brand and how you keep fighting through that to focus on something that you're extremely passionate about.
Branding with Authenticity
00:29:49
Speaker
Now, I assume you found your calling for this.
00:29:53
Speaker
part of your life. Tell us a little bit more about that. I never intended to have a large social media ever, like ever. Me having any kind of social media presence has come from me just being a chronic over-sharer and treating the internet as if it's like a
00:30:17
Speaker
What are those things that are in churches where you confess like a confession? Yes, thank you Treating the internet as that and so because no seriously like and I've been doing this since I was like 12 Um, I had like a tumblr back in the day and I got really big on tumblr and
00:30:37
Speaker
Um, so basically I've been, I've been a content creator since I was 12 essentially is what I'm saying, but not no back. That's a joke, by the way. Um, well, kind of, kind of not really again, like it's never been my intention. I would just, I enjoy writing. Um, I find articulating my thoughts to be are on paper or on screen to be very cathartic. And I think a lot of people find it either relatable or aspirational or.
00:31:07
Speaker
Just sometimes entertaining if nothing else. Um, so that's how I've operated my quote unquote brand. The times where I have tried to shift it into just like purely nutrition coaching or purely training, conditioning, it has felt quite inauthentic to myself. And I feel a bit like stifled. I've never chased the algorithm, so to speak. I refuse anything.
00:31:32
Speaker
Um, and like I've, I've entertained the thought of it because I'm sure, I'm sure that if I were to have some kind of like targeted strategy for building my brand and building things that, that my account would be larger. Maybe I would have more clients, maybe more, I don't know, business opportunities or something like that. But I'm just, I'm like, I'm like really uninterested in doing that because it, I mean, it takes the, it's not as authentic for you, right? Yeah, definitely not. There's a reason why I still haven't partnered with anyone.
00:32:02
Speaker
I also find, you know, being a young woman on the internet in the fitness space is a time. It is a time and it's hard because a lot of people will, a lot of your success on social media has to do with obviously how you present yourself and the way that you look and all of those things. When you do end up putting your face on the internet or your body on the internet,
00:32:31
Speaker
that becomes the primary focus and anything that you have to say tends to fade out. I find that that is much less often the case with like male trainers and male coaches who are often taken a lot more seriously. And then when I, it's kind of a lose lose for me because if I don't decide to post my face or post my body or like post those kinds of images, I lose out. And then when I do, I also lose out.
00:32:59
Speaker
So the only way that I can really operate is just, you know, to kind of go back to just like doing what feels authentic in that moment on that day. That's the hardest part, just like balancing being a girl and like doing the job that I have and like being taken seriously.
00:33:17
Speaker
How do you handle as far as how much you share? You say you're an over share and knowing all this, I mean, how do you thread that line between, you know, your personal life, your, we used to read that, or I think Chapel Roan just published a big missive about her on stage life and her off stage life should be separate. And please respect that. And the social media era now, it's just so hard to keep the, you know, keep yourself sane. How do you handle that?
00:33:44
Speaker
Hmm. It's great resilience. In recent months, I have felt less and less inclined to justify why I'm posting what I'm posting. So that helps me appear in my brain. And I think that, I think that if I, if I choose to share something and it is very off-putting for people and those people choose to disengage.
00:34:13
Speaker
I'm quite okay with it in the end because then it just, it's, it's almost like a filtering process. Like if, if people cannot get on board with the idea that creators and influencers, what everyone call them are also human beings with like many, many flaws. Like if you cannot understand that, then my page probably isn't for you anyways. Does that make sense? Right? Yeah. You're just going to, you're just going to filter yourself out.
00:34:42
Speaker
Right. Um, you don't need them anyway because I don't need them anyway. Right. Yeah. And like, you know, if I did want to share the work that I do or like sell my book or whatever it is, I would rather it to be with, I would rather it be with people who are like highly engaged and interested in me as a whole, as opposed to just whatever they feel like projecting onto me. So I guess my answer is that it just kind of takes care of itself.
00:35:10
Speaker
It's still hard for me to like, I still find it very frustrating. Steffi Cohen used to talk about this a lot. Do you know Steffi Cohen by any chance? Steffi Cohen has talked a lot about how she struggles with expressing her feminine identity and her sexuality and to still be taken seriously as literally a world-class power lifter, doctor, physio, incredible athlete boxer, all of those things.
00:35:39
Speaker
She has said many times that there is no one solution. You just have to figure out what you're willing to put up with. That's tough. I did a talk a long time ago where I did a little experiment where I typed in male fitness into Pinterest. And Pinterest gave me six full pages of graphics, of sayings, of maxims, of step-by-step business. It took about scrolling down about five
00:36:09
Speaker
pages before I got to a man with his shirt off or some sort of like actual body image. And then I did the same thing to female or women fitness. It was page after page after page of a hyper sexualized pictures. And this was actually in contact with other fitness organizations that use sex to sell and making and shaming people.
00:36:34
Speaker
And, um, that coming to their gym, the technique was, well, you want to look like this, you got to do this. Yeah. And, and that was Pinterest, which is like, you know, obviously algorithms. Yeah. I also think like another thing that like.
00:36:50
Speaker
I along with other women have to struggle with is like, you, you do, you are proud of like the physical body that you've built over years and years of hard training. It's a lot of work. It's a physical manifestation of all of like the work that you've done. And you would love to be able to celebrate it and show it off and like receive positive attention for it. We're all human beings. We all want that. The issue comes with like the, the over-sexualization that you, that
00:37:18
Speaker
unfortunately is attached to that kind of attention, which just like, that's, it's exhausting. It is exhausting. Myself and other women in similar positions have been like, okay, well, if I'm going to be treated like this, I might as well make money off of it.
00:37:37
Speaker
And so like the number of times where I've considered just being like, Oh, well, why not just make an OF? Why not just profit off of all of the attention that I'm getting? Anyways, I'm like, if you are going to sexualize me, why can't I capitalize on it? traffic is transactional, right? Right. I might as well. Right. But then I'm not comfortable with it. So then it's, it's like a constant tug of war in my head of like what I want to do with it. It's a nightmare.
00:38:05
Speaker
Yeah, can I imagine? I mean, it's difficult because then you want like he have a book, he'd be working out for a while. And this book project, you might be able to sell that. So you need eyeballs to see it. And so you go through this back and forth everything. And then you want to be able to say, well, you shouldn't do this to me. But then that's how if everything is built that way, well, then yeah, why not make money off it?
00:38:25
Speaker
And especially because the OF is being used by so many other, I think some of the Olympic athletes were talking about this, helping them pay for being there in the first place. So then it's like, well, but then of course then there's biases against that.
00:38:43
Speaker
Yeah, as soon as you sign up to do any kind of OF work, content creation work, things like that, where it's paid, you will be stigmatized. You will be delegitatized as a professional. If I were to sign up for an OF platform and sell photos and sell videos, any kind of credential that I have as a coach is done. Right. Which is really sad to think about. And this comes back to why
00:39:13
Speaker
I kind of wanted the podcasting because I just, I just want more people to like understand that like you can have these different components of yourself and they can coexist together peacefully and no one has to have an aneurysm trying to understand that they can coexist peacefully. Right. Yeah. So tell us about your, your business, your
Coaching and Nutrition Advice
00:39:36
Speaker
your training business, the types of clients you work with. So right now, I am a training conditioning coach.
00:39:47
Speaker
Um, so I do programming for amateur athletes and I also do, uh, training and programming for, I guess, if you want to call them general population, people just looking to get in shape. I do that as well. And I've been doing that for the longest, maybe about like seven issues or so now, the vast majority of my clientele are online, but they're like all over the world. So it's really cool. I have like a truly global online clientele base.
00:40:15
Speaker
Some of them are in New York, which is also really fun. It gets me to put them every once in a while to like train them in person. And then the other part of my business is nutrition coaching. So I will have weekly sessions live or rather over zoom, where I help them troubleshoot all of their nutrition problems and to help them with like body re composition and things like that. And then I also work with some amateur athletes on their nutrition as well. Um, so that is, that is my.
00:40:43
Speaker
the vast majority of my income is within those two fields. Yeah. What's been rewarding about working online with the clientele? Are you feeling like it's just as impactful when you train the clients online as it would have been in person? I think they're just different because
00:41:03
Speaker
there's no way that I can train someone in Singapore from New York. Oh yeah. That's really cool. Um, so that's really cool to be able to do that there. But of course, like when you, when you're training someone in person, like there is the added component of like, rather than having to explain something verbally, you could just like touch a person's shoulder and be like here. And then that's that. And then of course, it's also just like the energy that you carry when you are in person with someone. But I would like to think that over the last,
00:41:32
Speaker
many, many years of doing this, that the quality of coaching is just as good through the internet as it is in person. It's just a slightly different experience. And is it one-on-one coaching or? Everything is one-on-one. I don't do any group coaching. I tried doing group coaching and I found it to be really unrewarding because I pride myself a lot in my ability to form very, very deep, long-lasting relationships with my athletes and my clients.
00:42:01
Speaker
Like my turnover rate is excellent. It's like very, very small. And I will work with people for like years, not necessarily because they need me for years, but because they're interested in like growing with me as a coach. And they're interested in growing as an athlete with me. So that makes it very hard for me to scale, which is another thing that I struggle with. But then I wonder, you know, would scaling and making X amount more money be worth me not enjoying my job as much? I'm not sure.
00:42:29
Speaker
Yeah. And what do you see in the next five years for your business? And maybe you don't have that answer yet because you like to listen to yourself in the moment, but I mean, okay. That's kind of the answer. I always have projects lined up.
00:42:52
Speaker
Yeah. And of course those require planning. Sure. I don't really see it as like, I don't, I feel like I've never really like exited any of my, my pursuits. I feel like I just keep adding on top of it. Like I just keep layering them into each other, which is really cool. Cause then I'm really am kind of making my own very specific niche job where I feel like I'm adding a lot of value because I'm able to put all these things together.
00:43:16
Speaker
Um, but then also I don't really have a job title and it makes things really confusing when I'm in social settings. If you were like, what do you do? And I'm like, I don't know. I just do what I like. And I figure how to make money off it. Um, like, like the, like the Panasonic stuff, for example, like I, I've done a lot of projects like that. It's not really modeling. It's not like, I don't know what I was there.
00:43:39
Speaker
but I was paid to like share a story and do a thing. So. A paid actor. Yeah. A paid actor. Yeah. A paid actor. I was, oh God, they had, they wanted me to, it was my first time like having to do like a voiceover, like voice acting. Oh man, I struggled with it so hard. I just, I sounded so monotonous. It was terrible. But anyways, I do see myself going more and more into food specifically as in like, like I'm currently doing a lot of nutrition.
00:44:07
Speaker
And I'm very interested in making nutrition, high quality nutrition, more accessible to people of color and having people of color understand that they can eat their cultural heritage's food and their own ethnic foods and like still be a healthy person because I think there's a lot of like stigma against that within the current nutrition space as is. Like that's like a subtopic that I'm very passionate about. So I'm like trying to figure out like what I can do around there.
00:44:38
Speaker
Like part of the reason why I'm coming out with a hard copy version of my book is number one, there's a demand for it. And well, number two, it'll be nice to feel something in my hands. Um, but also in your hands, that's great. That's a great idea. Yes. Um, it is a very, very, very expensive endeavor. Oh, wow.
00:44:56
Speaker
Yeah, especially the cookbook because the cookbook, there are so many components to it, like design components to where you just need a lot of expertise. And I'm very, very particular about these things. So it's just been, it's just been a process. But, uh, yeah, that's also why I'm coming up with this book because I'm just, I'm more interested in just like working within food as a whole in general. Um, and then. I think I will always do strength and conditioning in some capacity.
00:45:26
Speaker
But what that looks like or how that manifests in five years, I don't know. So when you talk to your clients about food, I know one of the things that we have seen over the years and who are talking about more and more, and I think you actually posted on your social media before, is about having a healthy relationship with food.
00:45:45
Speaker
Um, because a lot of times, uh, people who have problems with diet and exercise and, and fitness and weight gain and such, um, comes from that. So how do you help? How do you broach that topic with people? Um, how do you help them at least in broad strokes, uh, develop a healthy relationship with food? Well, first I have to make sure that all of the crappy information that they've learned over the last however many years of their life is unlearned.
00:46:12
Speaker
So there's a lot of like myth dispelling that has to go on in the first several weeks to months, sometimes forever. Um, because we do learn a lot of really, really bad information about what's good for us. Um, so there's like a lot of unlearning and then I, like by and large, everyone in my opinion learned how to track their calories on a very basic level, just so that people can understand that like at the end of the day, a calorie is a calorie.
00:46:42
Speaker
as in like, like one unit of measure equals one unit of measure. And that, that means that there are multiple ways that you can achieve the physical composite, like the body composition that you're looking for. There are multiple ways to achieve the performance that you're looking for. You don't have to, you can incorporate pretty much anything into your diet, as long as you understand how much of it you're eating and like the quality of the nutrients that you're getting. Um, so there's a lot of time spent there. And then depending on the person, you know, some people have like,
00:47:11
Speaker
eating disorders that are much more serious than others. And if that's the case, I refer them out to a specialist because I'm not qualified to handle that. And then I have a lot of people journal pretty excessively and like self-reflect so that they can build a lot of like self-awareness around like these more toxic cycles of like these toxic like thinking pattern cycles that they have. And the more awareness that they can bring to it, the better they can just kind of like cut themselves off in the moment and redirect it somewhere else. So I'm
00:47:38
Speaker
I'm everyone's under qualified and underpaid therapist really when it comes to the nutrition stuff. Because so much of it has to do with like, learning how to treat yourself with respect. And that's a hard thing to teach. Like you said before, giving yourself grace. Yeah, giving yourself grace. It's interesting because like a lot of like the clientele that I have attracted in the in the past when I had like a slightly different kind of messaging would be like a lot of like these people who are like
00:48:05
Speaker
I need someone to yell at me and to motivate me and to tell me that I'm not doing good enough and discipline me. And I'm like, you think I'm that person? I do not raise my voice. Number two, I am going to be the kindest, most gentle. I will be very direct. And the piece of feedback that I receive the most, which I take a lot of pride in, is that I
00:48:28
Speaker
really have no time for bullshit in my coaching. I only have 30 minutes with you. And I'm going to deliver the information that I need to and like the kindest, but also the most direct way possible. So yeah, that's, that's how you, that's how you fix people, relationships with food. You force them to unlearn all of the things. Well, I asked them questions so I can figure out what I need to help them out with to unlearn and then go from there.
00:48:52
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, I'm a dietician actually. And so I do a lot of work with athletes and eating disorders. And so I think question asking is so important because there may not be a one size fits all for everyone. So yeah, even that calorie counting piece, it might not be the best for everyone. But I think it's great that you're asking questions.
00:49:17
Speaker
I, the calorie counting thing is like something that I've gone back and forth with a lot because oftentimes when I, when I start with someone who has a, who has like an eating disorder past or has like eating disorder tendencies, I don't have them start with calorie counting ever. I'm almost always just like, let's just like do the other stuff first. And then when you're ready for it, we can,
00:49:42
Speaker
track some numbers and like go from there. But I find that once they learn like the actual quantitative calories in something, it seems like they're able to create a lot more like mental flexibility with the choices that they make. Because they can understand that like a Snickers can fit into your diet. If you have a specific goal, you can kind of like make it work for yourself.
00:50:03
Speaker
Or if you want to be fuller, you would rather eat 50 calories worth of something that's high volume than something that is like a half tablespoon of olive oil or something like that. You know what I mean? Yeah.
Cookbook and Personal Recipes
00:50:17
Speaker
And so can you tell us just as you're getting more involved with food, I would love to know about where you get your inspiration from when it comes to the recipes and your cookbook. I know you talked a lot about wanting to build that cookbook.
00:50:32
Speaker
And I think, is it already built, the cookbook? It's built. It's built. And where do those recipes come from? Have they been inspired by family? Are they foods and recipes that you've loved? The recipes in there are all things that I make for myself and my friends.
00:50:51
Speaker
I love throwing like dinner parties. So some of those recipes are on like the quote unquote easier side as in like it's just like less involved because I want people to feel like they can make themselves a healthy meal without having to break the bank, without having to buy a bunch of equipment, all that stuff.
00:51:08
Speaker
And frankly, based off of my experience working with a lot of nutrition clients, it seems like a lot of people just literally don't eat a lot of vegetables. So I try to make it very vegetable forward and heavy. And so some of those recipes are very straightforward. And then other ones that are more involved are things I just really enjoy cooking for my friends. Nowadays, I don't really follow recipes. I kind of just cook with my intuition. But I think that the only way that you can build intuition is
00:51:37
Speaker
based off of building some kind of like, of having like a solid foundational like education base in cooking by following some recipes. And then a lot of them are also inspired just by like travel that I've done.
00:51:51
Speaker
That's amazing. I think something I've really taken away from this episode and recording with you, Ash, is that listening to your intuition is the more that you can listen to it, the more that it builds a voice for itself. And I think it's great for people to
00:52:11
Speaker
to feel like they can listen to what's next for them. And it doesn't always have to be planned in advance. And there are so many different avenues to get involved with when it comes to career and passions and all of these different things will lead to hopefully what makes someone really happy. And it sounds like from what you've shared to
00:52:34
Speaker
you know, there's always, there's careers during the day that someone may get involved with and then they want to, I don't know, have a, um, something that calms them mentally outside of that career. But it sounds like you've really built a life for yourself where you're enjoying everything you're doing today because you've listened to your intuition. Oh yeah. I'm like,
00:53:01
Speaker
I love my life. I'm really happy with my day to day. I don't really do things that I'm not like enthusiastic about and I feel lucky to know what I enjoy, if that makes sense. Like I think a lot of people actually don't know what they like, which I don't, I've never really been that way, but I think that, you know,
00:53:29
Speaker
living life with like a lot of intention is something that I think is really important and like all of my friends like the thing that I am most proud of in my life is actually my friends and like my relationships with them.
00:53:40
Speaker
And the more that I pour into those relationships and friendships, the fuller my life is and the more interesting things I get to be involved in. I like saying yes to a lot of things. And then we just, we all create opportunities with each other. Like the ebook, for instance, literally was done with my best friend, just the two of us. No one else touched it. She photographed and designed and edited the whole thing. I wrote the whole thing. So it's like, cool, you know?
00:54:10
Speaker
Yeah and I feel like intuition is really important and I think like having good intuition comes from as you said asking a lot of questions and like a lot of self-reflection which can be like incredibly painful sometimes but it is what it is.
00:54:29
Speaker
and worth it in the end. Yeah, absolutely.
Conclusion: Following Intuition
00:54:32
Speaker
Well, Ash, I want to thank you so much for being on the show today. I've been so fascinated by your journey, and thank you so much for sharing everything you've gone through. I think following your intuition is a message that most folks, it sounds so easy to do, but your life story is very inspiring, so thank you for sharing all that. I really appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate it. Cool. Yeah, thanks for having me. Thank you. And that brings us to the end of another episode.
00:54:57
Speaker
Remember, if you like what you hear, please feel free to leave a review and tell your friends as well. For Yasi Ansari, I'm Stephen Karaginas, and this has been the Athletes and the Arts Podcast.