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Doctors for Dancers: with Galit Friedlander
247 Plays1 year ago
Yasi and Steven talk with the incomparable Galit Friedlander, professional dancer, choreographer for the LA Sparks Dance Team, fitness coach, and host of the DanceSpeak podcast. She is also part of Doctors for Dancers, founded by our second guest, CEO Jennifer DePaola, who work to bring dance medicine specialists together to care for dancers of all ages and levels. Galit and Jennifer join us today to discuss their journeys to advocating health and wellness nationwide. Galit also discusses her personal battles, facing self-doubt, depression and rejection at a young age to assistant choreographing for Prince, dancing with Pharrell Williams and MC Lyte, and now working as a certified personal trainer and conditioning coach. Above all, Galit and Jennifer show us the power of telling yourself "Yes I Can".
For Galit's website, go to https://www.gogalit.com
Galit's instagram is @gogalit
The DanceSpeak podcast instagram is @dancespeak
For Doctors for Dancers website, go to https://www.doctorsfordancers.com
DFD's instagram is @doctorsfordancers
For Athletes and the Arts website, go to https://www.athletesandthearts.com
Our instagram is @athletesandtheartspodcast
Bios:
GALIT FRIEDLANDER is a professional dancer, choreographer, coach, and host of the popular podcast DanceSpeak, now entering its 7th year.
Although Galit’s training began in New York with Jazz, Ballet, Modern, and West African, she soon fell in love with the world of street dance, where she learned from the best of NYC's underground dancers. At the age of 14, she was accepted to LaGuardia High School, also known as the 'Fame' school, where she studied Theatre and each day and then train in dance in the afternoons and evenings. Her unique ability to bring these two worlds together has contributed to her style of choreography and dance.
In 2011, Galit defied all odds when she worked as the Assistant Choreographer for PRINCE's Welcome 2 America Tour, choreographed the film A Reason To Sing, and began teaching workshops and classes throughout Los Angeles. Credits include Pharrell's record-breaking Happy video, choreographing and dancing in tours across the U.S. and China, MC Lyte (Cravin), and traveling to Guatemala as a ‘Pepsi’ dancer.
Recently, Galit has been brought on as Director for the LA SparKids (Dance Team for the National WNBA Champions, the LA Sparks) and continues to travel between Los Angeles, New York, and other cities sharing her love for dance in classes and workshops.
Galit is also a recurring host for the Doctors For Dancers online talk series. Galit’s mission is to expand the knowledge and untapped gifts of others through dance, exercise, and intentional choreography.
JENNIFER DEPAOLA is the founder of Doctors For Dancers. She started dancing at the tender age of 2, starting with ballet and tap. As she grew, Jennifer developed a deep appreciation for various dance styles, particularly jazz and hip-hop. Her training encompassed prestigious establishments such as Plumb Dance Studio, under the guidance of Sheila and Lisa Plumb, and The Dance Source in Scottsdale, Arizona, where she had the privilege of learning from renowned instructors Judi and Brian Friedman.
However, Jennifer's dance career faced setbacks due to persistent back pain. This personal struggle ignited her to establish Doctors For Dancers in 2019, dedicated to connecting dancers with specialized healthcare professionals when they require expert care. Her mission is to serve as a vital resource for dancers worldwide, bridging the gap between Dance Specialists and the dance community. Through educational initiatives, comprehensive resources, and community outreach programs, Jennifer strives to ensure that dancers receive the proper care and support they deserve.
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Transcript
Introduction and Event Announcement
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the Athletes in the Arts podcast, hosted by Stephen Karaginas and Yasi Ansari.
00:00:21
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to the Athletes in the Arts podcast. We thank you for listening and we're excited to bring today's show to you. Along with Yasi Ansari, I'm Stephen Karaginas. If you want more information on athletes in the arts and all that we do, go to athletesandthearts.com to get resources, information on all sorts of topics in the performing arts medicine world. I'd also like to note that on July 6th to 9th, the Performing Arts Medicine Association is hosting their 41st Hybrid Symposium in New York.
00:00:50
Speaker
So if you want to learn a lot of information on performing arts medicine, listen to some amazing lectures, get great information and some research, go to www.artsmed.org and sign up for the online symposium.
Connecting Dance and Medicine
00:01:06
Speaker
Now today we have a couple of special guests coming to us from Yassie's Nick of the Woods in Los Angeles. We want to talk about an organization called Doctors for Dancers and how they are trying to help connect medical care for dancers of all levels of dance in all parts of America. With us today is the founder of Doctors for Dancers, Jennifer DiPaolo. Also on our show is Galit Freelander, dancer, choreographer, personal trainer, and podcaster.
00:01:32
Speaker
She has performed with Pharrell Williams and M.C. Light, choreographed for the WNBA LA Sparks Dance Team, assistant choreographer for Prince, and hosted the Dance Speak podcast for seven years. She's also heading up the dance mix, a three-day celebration event hosted by Doctors for Dancers, where dancers, top choreographers, and dance medicine professionals will be working together for a phenomenal weekend event. Her life journey is a tale of resilience and illustrative of the power of just saying to yourself, yes, I can.
00:02:03
Speaker
Galit, Jennifer, thank you so much for being on the Athletes in the Arts podcast today. We're so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you.
Galit Freelander's Dance Journey
00:02:13
Speaker
So Galit, first off, I just wanted to talk a little bit about your career because your career has been so multifaceted and you have so many different experiences as a dancer, choreographer, fitness professional. So go back and tell us a little bit about how you got started in dance. Oh, snaps. How did I start dancing?
00:02:32
Speaker
Um, well, actually it's, it is actually kind of short and sweet. I was flopping around in ballet when I was like five, six, I had a favorite teacher named Danny and then Danny left and I had one day with the other teacher and I was like, I'm bored. So I quit. Then fast forward. I'm 12 years old, going on 13, kind of like going through middle school woes. Life is tough, kind of dark inside and.
00:02:58
Speaker
I wake up one morning and I ask my mom at breakfast, I'm like, why did I never go back to dance? And she didn't know and I didn't know. That is how I started really dancing. We just didn't know why I wasn't dancing. And I started with one jazz class at steps.
00:03:14
Speaker
This is New York City. And then I found that it was, I mean, I think I was dealing with depression at the time. And I remember when I was in that class for the hour and it ended, I realized I was not concerned with the world for that hour. And then I started being excited for something to do the next day, to practice what I had learned, to do class the next week, and then to get better at jazz, I started taking ballet. And then this just all expanded into
00:03:41
Speaker
um, an intensive training life for dance. Now, were you aware of the depression you were suffering back then? Were you aware that like at the time you're like, this is, you know, I don't like how I feel or do you recognize that you're feeling depressed and you, I mean, how was that experience for you? Yeah. Thanks for asking. I was very aware. I've been, it feels weird saying this, but I was, I've always been introspective and I was writing poetry since I was in second grade. So I pour all my feelings into my poems.
00:04:11
Speaker
And I remember I saying and expressing like I feel something like gray inside. Like it feels dull. It's not quite straight sadness. And I was aware and I think it was also a time like this is early, early 2000s when there was a lot of glorification also of like emo and being down. And I'm not minimizing that that wasn't people's true experience, but I was like, yeah, I think I kind of feel like that. Right. Yeah.
00:04:41
Speaker
Now you ended up going to LaGuardia High School, which is a pretty famous school for the arts. So what was that experience like for you? Oh, so I auditioned for theater and dance and vocal. Um, I didn't really know how to sing, but I was like, I'm going to get into this school. And I actually got cut from my top choice was theater. My second was dance. Um, I got cut from the dance audition after the first round. I didn't even make it to the second. I was heartbroken.
00:05:09
Speaker
And theater, yeah. Well, I don't have, I mean, I think what it is, the way that my body is put together mechanically is not your traditional ballet body at all. I mean, aesthetically or mechanically. And so they were having us audition in ballet and modern, and they're looking, I think, for natural ability and people who are super trained. And I mean, they could see like, they just didn't see that potential in me. So,
00:05:38
Speaker
Yeah, I remember I had prepared a solo. I had worked with a contemporary teacher. I couldn't even do that. I was just so sad. But theater, I made it through the theater department. And what was the experience like? On one hand, it was phenomenal getting to really explore the arts and be in a community where we're doing this, we're teenagers, and we're expressing ourselves.
00:06:03
Speaker
I mean, even like being a drama major, all of our drama classes, so it's four periods a day, five days a week of your major. And the drama classes are in the basement, which was kind of hilarious. And we had to wear all black. So imagine you're like, by the way, here a little bit of static. Oh, that'll be fine because we're separate tracks. Got it. Sorry. So we're running around the basement. I mean, I remember like one kid Vanessa, she'd have like a toy baby and pretend it's real and
00:06:32
Speaker
We were just all kind of nutty and then dancers on the eighth floor. And it was great. And at the same time, it was a really difficult time. I thought that I'm going to go to performing arts school and meet my people and have the time of my life. And somehow in this school where I thought we were all misfits that would find each other, I didn't fit in.
00:06:51
Speaker
Like there, even in this last year, there was someone who called me out of the blue and she apologized. She said, like, I was a mean girl. And I was like, no, not me. She was like, we were mean to you, Galit. I'm sorry about that. And I was like, whoa, you know, I thought I was so sensitive. And so I dealt with bullying. I also had that. There was a lot of enrichment and it was all of those things at once. I almost dropped out I think junior year after someone had threatened my life.
00:07:18
Speaker
So a lot of people I know, yeah, that's a whole other story. But a lot of people had the best years there. And I think it's such a great school. And I hope that they keep on giving funding to LaGuardia in schools like that. And also, like I just had a challenging high school experience at the same time. But what I left with also was like, all of that theatrical training was amazing. I think it got me ready to improv. It got me ready to
00:07:45
Speaker
speak, it got me ready to, it really prepared me, I think, for anything that I want to do. And I still cherish the memories. Were you still taking dance classes during this time? Oh, yes. So after school, I would go to the dance studio. Everyone thought I was a dance major by, like, junior year. I would take dance classes after school everywhere. I went to Studio Maestro, which is where, like, the SAB kids would sneak to take ballet class. I would take classes steps.
00:08:14
Speaker
I started going to Broadway Dance Center. I would take West African at Harlem School of the Arts. I'd go to Ballet Hispanico. I was everywhere. And then eventually I started getting more into the underground scene. And then the weekends, I would also dance. I remember there was one point I was taking three dance classes every Saturday. I was a part of KR3T's. I would do their four hour practice on Sunday. So I was fully immersed in that.
00:08:39
Speaker
And then also making sure that I'm getting into honors classes, AP classes where I can. I mean, I was stressed and I was dancing and I was like making it through the acting program, you know, spreading myself just ever so slightly very thin. So something that I want to touch base on really quick is in high school, you
00:09:01
Speaker
didn't make the dance group, right? You were in the theater group. The major. Yeah. And then what ended up happening is you still immersed yourself in a lot of dance programs outside of the school. Is that correct? Correct. So I want to know, like, there's, I'm sure, a ton of students who don't technically fit into the ideal, whatever the ideal is, right? And I mean, I think it would be a great conversation to, like,
00:09:28
Speaker
talk about what an ideal is and how to continue encouraging dancers to not let this false sense of whatever that's supposed to look like keep them from doing what they love. So it sounds like it didn't hold you back. And I would love for you to share how you kept going and following the dance and theater and school and all of it.
00:09:55
Speaker
Well, thank you. First of all, so something that I've always had is I have a fire that burns within me. If I love something, I love it for dear life. And I didn't have, I'm really fortunate. I had parents that were like, if you can make it happen, do it. You know, I had that encouragement, but I never had anyone saying like,
00:10:13
Speaker
wow you are just such a natural talent you like i was never the one i never got it easy. And so to me it wasn't a factor it wasn't about it was always felt like okay game on i'm gonna make it happen i'm going to get better i believe in myself that's the thing i believed in myself and i wanted it badly and i wanted to get better and i.
00:10:34
Speaker
I think I was raised with a very strong work ethic. So it wasn't about just showing up and killing it. I mean, the first dance class I ever took as a 12 year old was JT's Jazz Funk. I think it was like 5 p.m. on a Sunday at steps. And I couldn't even follow the warmup. It was a full figure choreographing warmup. I mean, even head isolations. I was like, what's happening? And my reaction to those types of situations were like, okay, I know if I practice, I can get this. Like, I just want to be able to follow along.
00:11:03
Speaker
And that's what pulled me forward, that I was like, I'm not going to keep this step. Now, in terms of the ideal ballet body, I mean, that was, I didn't want to be a prima ballerina. I never did. So, and I also like started off with ballet at Ballet Hispanico. And a lot of the bodies there were like, we had hips and butts then, you know, we didn't generally have the traditional ballet bodies in there. So it was also really helpful to be in spaces.
00:11:33
Speaker
where we had a diversity of bodies and that wasn't a thing. I wasn't flexible and that was really tough, but I don't know if I'm quite answering it, but that's the way that I saw it. Now, I wanted a flat tummy. I wanted a six pack. That was more something I was very conscious of, the more
00:11:55
Speaker
fitting the aesthetic
Advice for Aspiring Dancers
00:11:57
Speaker
for probably what my body type was. But when I look back at it, I mean, I'm what, 12, 13 going through puberty? Like that's a tall order. Your body is changing. You know, you're figuring out your new habits. And I actually, I stopped taking ballet class a few years in. I was like taking and taking a lot. It wasn't my main focus, but I knew it was important for everything else.
00:12:21
Speaker
And I remember I just had so much inflammation in my body. My hips were really tight. Um, my Achilles were hurting and I know technically I'm all for technique, but I think I had already overworked certain things and like nothing was really making it better. And I was so stressed out about it. I may, I remember making the decision, like I was taking three at the time, you know, I know this is great for me and I'm not gonna, one day I'll say, Oh, it would have been great for you to stay in ballet. But I felt like I was getting worse.
00:12:51
Speaker
And that's when I was like, you know what? I'm gonna focus on other dance forms also and like let this go and you know, hop into ballet class if I want to. And I'm actually glad I did that. How old were you then when you decided that? I think I was actually 15. So I'm like, I was only dancing three or four years. I think it was around like once I was in LaGuardia that that choice happened.
00:13:17
Speaker
Yeah. It seems like a lot of problems that dancers will have is, especially with the advent of social media, is the idea of trying to have their body be like someone else's body instead of knowing their own body. And it sounds like you were able to find a way to understand that at a young age and kind of stop yourself from hurting yourself further by recognizing that.
00:13:41
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I think like we didn't have social media yet also. And we had like TV and advertising and marketing, you know, forming our idea, our perceptions of ourselves. But I think the hardest thing was actually just like, I wanted to technically be able to do things. I wanted to turn. I wanted to jump. I wanted my legs to straighten. I wanted my foot to point a certain way. And it was just my major movers. My muscle groups were just working against me so much. And I felt like
00:14:11
Speaker
it was just repeating the same thing that was hurting me. So I will push sometimes too far and I have in the past, but that was, it just sucked. And there's nothing like being in the leotard and those pink tights and those ballet slippers and that tight bun and like really uncomfortable because you finished school, you ate a bunch of food and now you're there like seeing what everything's cutting into.
00:14:33
Speaker
Staring at yourself in the mirror, I always felt like in ballet class, the oxygen was sucked out of the room and there's like no room. You can't hide, you know, you're hit, you're on that relevé, you're pulling up, you're bringing that passe, you're making sure an alignment and you're trying to get that pirouette and having all of that discomfort and like not being able to just go for it, at least in my experience, I wasn't able to let go enough was also just like, it sucked.
00:14:59
Speaker
So what was the thing that helped? I mean, you're talking about the bullying and not even being in a dance program in school and all the dancing you did outside school, all these different things. And we talk a lot about resiliency and dancers. How did you, what was the main thing you leaned on to help you motivate yourself to push through all this?
00:15:19
Speaker
Um, I mean, I was really proud to be in the theater department. Like it was a great program. I think that I was, I didn't have enough of the self esteem you need to thrive in the program. Um, and also I felt like you can tell if your teacher believes in you or not. And that's where I really needed to be believed in. And that's where I felt like I wasn't.
00:15:39
Speaker
And I even had teachers say to me senior year after I did the talent show, like, Oh, I didn't know you had it in you. And it's like, yeah, okay, great. That's wonderful. Thanks. But what pushed me through with dance, I mean, there's so many different dance forms. And I also knew that like, I would take a hip hop class and then I would learn about whacking and house and I'd say, Oh, I want to take those and I learned about popping and I want to take that and locking. I want to do that.
00:16:06
Speaker
And then, and I have to give a shout out to Brian Green. He was really good at pointing you in the direction of other teachers as well. And it didn't have to be the Eurocentric way of training and dance. I mean, I was looking at taking West African as a foundational form to help me with hip hop and everything else. And the scene there was just so, it felt so free. And I knew like I'm in New York, this is the birthplace of hip hop. I was literally trying to find the underground and then I eventually found it and I would go to sessions
00:16:37
Speaker
Dancing Union Square, I mean, I followed that trail and I loved it. And that's where I found self-expression and I found where it's so accepting of different body types also with like, you don't need to be flexible for it. And that's like what I really sunk my teeth into. So,
00:17:01
Speaker
I think this brings up a really good point of how a dancer of all ages can listen to what their body needs in the moment and continue following on the path that's right for them. Because you're right, there's not one dance form that's right for anyone. And what I always say is that everyone has a little bit of dance in them. Even if they don't think they're a dancer, I can assure them that they can go out and find the right form of dance that is
00:17:27
Speaker
That's that's right for them, right? Because there's just so many different types of dance culturally To you know if we're adding in like dances from from different parts of the world and so are there any tips or recommendations that you have for people that might be
00:17:44
Speaker
In your same shoes in high school or even as they're heading into college because I think that's really important It's a really great skill set to have when they're able to listen in to like what feels right what doesn't and continuing to follow that so that they can grow and You know keep being just building up on the dancer that they were meant to be
00:18:07
Speaker
I think it's as simple as like, if you go to everything before dance, what sparks joy for you? And when do you feel crappy? You know, if you look at kids, like, if a kid is playing a game, they like they are happy. If they're bored, they are bored. If they're upset by something, they're upset. And we all have that in us. And I think it's tapping into that. So for me, like, I was feeling it wasn't a I believe in pushing through in terms of education and finding a way as best as you can. But
00:18:35
Speaker
Um, I think it's actually going back to that. Like if I'm feeling depressed from dance class, um, maybe time to have a new teacher or explore a different vein of it. And you know, when you're having fun, you don't have to think about it. You're like, I want to do, I like, if you have to kick me out of the place, I'm enjoying it so much. So I think really leaning into that. And if you're not sure and everything is just overwhelming, there's a good chance you're burnt out and you need to actually just take a pause, take a breath and like.
00:19:06
Speaker
like unplug from it a little bit, I think, which is a tough thing if you're a teenager because your energy is different, you're kind of naturally wanting to plug in and form your identity. But I'd say that go back to even like look observe a child in a non creepy way, observe a child, see how simple it is for them and then tap into your inner child in that sense.
00:19:27
Speaker
Now, Jen, you work with doctors for dancers and you've been doing that now for a little while, for a few years now. So what got you started in the dance world back in your youth?
Jennifer DiPaolo's Dance and Career Shift
00:19:39
Speaker
Oh, for me, I kind of almost have the same story. Like I danced when I was very young. I absolutely loved it. I remember loving it. And I was also doing jazz and I had a cabbage patch doll was
00:19:53
Speaker
Like if you remember back in the 80s, cabbage patch dolls were everything. So for me to have my first dance with a doll, like it was money, like I was ready to go. And then I went into ballet and I did not like ballet. And I really remember why I stopped doing it. It's the stupidest reason you've ever heard of, but this was my inner child. And I was dancing at the same time as somebody that was three months older than me. We grew up together, we're best friends, and she was just a little bit taller than me.
00:20:20
Speaker
And when we were at the bar, she had her on the higher one and then she would put me on the lower one. And I didn't like that. And I didn't like the teacher telling me that I couldn't be on the same bar as my best friend. I was competitive out the gate. Like right out the gate, we were competitive. So many years later, I did not dance either until we lived in Arizona. And I still remember that first eight count.
00:20:43
Speaker
being back in that dance floor when I was in fifth or sixth grade. It was like it was home. And I started dancing ever since then, and my parents were going through a divorce, so it was kind of a dark time for me. I didn't realize that I needed it or that it was an escape for me. I had three older brothers, so me by myself in dance class, it was just all me.
00:21:06
Speaker
And we ended up living with our dance teacher. So we had two owners. They were sisters. It's called Plum Dance Studio. And Lisa and Sheila Plum, they were my everything back in the day. And so I drove to dance with my dance teacher. And then when I got a little bit older in middle school, I would actually walk after school to the studio.
00:21:26
Speaker
So I would assist before my classes would start, so I'd be with the babies. And then I'd get something to eat next door at the deli, and that was my day. Every single day was just eating my sandwich of my turkey in between classes and assisting, and then just dancing all night long. And then I ended up being competitive, and we ended up switching studios. And then that's where Judy and Brian Friedman were my next round, and that was my everything back in the day.
00:21:55
Speaker
When I ended up switching over there and then I finished the year and I loved every minute of it. I taught competed in the whole nine yards. So I I love dance.
00:22:12
Speaker
And then what led so and then after that, you go through, like, what was your main career choice after you got through high school, college, everything? What did you stay and dance for a while? Or did you like, what would you do after that? I always wanted to be a dancer. Like, that was there was no question, we were all going to move to LA, we were going to be professional dancers, like that was the thing. Brian ended up going over a little bit earlier. So
00:22:39
Speaker
we would actually go ahead and stay with him and then go train over at Tremaine and then go back and forth. And so that was really nice. And then, but I actually started getting hurt when I was 14, actually at Plum, my last recital in character shoes, I sprained my ankle. And then when I was over at the other studio,
00:22:57
Speaker
We were practicing tricks on a trampoline and I sprained my ankle there. I thought it was cool back then. Like you have crutches, like this is my warrior wound, like I added this. But I really never got it fixed and I ended up having a lot of lower back pain growing up. So even during like my high school years, I would actually miss multiple days of school and multiple days of dance because I'd be on the floor.
00:23:19
Speaker
my back was out. So I saw a lot of different specialists and unfortunately nobody was able to really help me. I don't really think that people really understood even today they don't understand dancers as athletes. So again my last recital I was out. My back was out and I just didn't think that I could
00:23:40
Speaker
take that truck over to LA to be a professional dancer if my back just kept going out and seeing all these professionals and not being able to help. So I ended up staying back, unfortunately. But that's also what led us to starting Doctors for Dancers is that exact reason when we found out that
00:23:57
Speaker
There was such a thing as dance medicine. There's a dance medicine specialist out there. And I was like, what? There are people like this that help us. And I just wish that my younger self would have found somebody like you, Dr. K, that would have cared about me and understood me. And I really feel like if I would have found that special soul, I'd still dance in my kitchen in my dining room. Like it still happens, right? But I just think that I would have had a different path because
00:24:26
Speaker
my love and passion that I have for dance has never died. And when I wasn't dancing and I was in the state planning world and doing all these financials, it was great and all. My favorite part was events and commingling. But when I got back into dance again and being around the environment, I'm like,
00:24:45
Speaker
this is where my soul is. I was wondering where a part of my soul was. I just thought it was, that's what happens when you grow up and you become an adult and you get married and have kids. I thought that that's just kind of what you do, but it's not. So I think that goes back to what Galit was saying earlier is when you find that passion, you find that heart and that soul, like that's where your path is supposed to be. And
00:25:07
Speaker
dance is it for me. It's just gonna die with me. That's just how it is. It's so funny you say that. I'm just gonna bring like a personal story in here. Over Father's Day, I was with my dad and I was like, Dad, um, you know, I feel like I've changed careers so many times in my life, because I always wanted to be going to dance school, like I was dancing competitively until high, until college, and then
Cultural Pressures and Dance Career
00:25:35
Speaker
My parents were like, oh, dance doesn't bring money from a Middle Eastern culture. Like we were from back around and they're like, you gotta go into medicine. You gotta go into something else. And so I went into journalism because that was the only way that I could find self expression at the time that kind of mimicked dance and performance, but it was never dance. And so it kept, it kept changing and changing. And we had this like heart to heart conversation with my dad this weekend. I was like, dad,
00:26:06
Speaker
We were talking about, he's like, I wish I let you go into dance. Like I wish I had just let you, like go into a dance school and college and pursued professional dance. And so, because it's always there. And like you both have said, it always feels like home. And this is why it's so important for kids, especially or just anyone that's growing up in their teen years, when you love something so much, you can create a career out of it.
00:26:34
Speaker
regardless of what it is, as long as you love it that much and you have that passion, which I think that's the beauty of the podcast and obviously athletes and the arts, but it's a little story that I wanted to share because it was just so in line with what you just shared. That's amazing. Yeah. I love that. Yeah.
00:26:52
Speaker
So Jen, you talked about your goals in being a professional dancer,
Galit's Professional Dance Path
00:26:57
Speaker
a galaide. From your experiences in your teen years, you went on to a professional dance career. So now, how do you take your experience from New York and high school? And how did you then move into working with people like Prince and Pharrell Williams? And how did all that come about? OK. So I knew I was going to go to college. And I knew because I was interested in commercial dance.
00:27:23
Speaker
Like that, you know, it was either like you do Broadway, you do the like dance troupes and concert world, which I, you know, I was already at it quit ballet. So, um, and then there's like, okay, if you do hip hop, you're going to do commercial work. You're going to, you know, go for artists and all of that. Um, and I knew like, I had this, I remember the moment I was walking at steps doing their summer intensive, I was 14.
00:27:47
Speaker
And it literally, I knew you're not, you don't pursue dance. That's, I'm just doing this cause I love it. And it literally like, it felt like it dropped through my head into my being like, this is for you. And then I, you, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this and not my first thought was like, shit.
00:28:04
Speaker
Because I literally just had that realization. But I wasn't sure if I'm going to do that. I have a lot of different interests. So I go to college. I knew I'm going to train outside of school because they didn't have good commercial dance programs and college is expensive. So I might as well just go to school with the people who might hire me one day or be in those roles and be able to talk shop with them.
00:28:27
Speaker
you know, feel empowered in that way. And it was just important to me to get a degree. And then I graduate and it was a conversation that happened on the sofa during spring break, my senior year, and I'm debating what to do. And my mom says to me, she's like, you know, you've been talking about dance for a long time. I think this would be the time to do it.
00:28:46
Speaker
Why don't you give yourself permission to do it? Just make a decision. And I remember I was like, OK. And it gave me so much ease. So I graduated college and I did not know what I was doing. And that's like part of the reason why I created Dancebeak, also the podcast, because there was no clear path or now you have tons of mentorships and intensives. You did not have that for the professional world. So the real story is I spent a whole summer on the couch watching Lifetime.
00:29:14
Speaker
TV and like trying to figure it out but really I was I called it a post-graduation funk and then I had to figure out how to afford staying in LA and then I so simultaneously I'm like doing so many odd jobs and I'm going to Debbie Reynolds dance studio and I'm going to all the dance parties there used to be a lot more in Los Angeles like events that were put on by teachers and choreographers and you go and I was freestyling everywhere with my fanny pack and um and I slowly built up
00:29:43
Speaker
I mean, when you're doing like random dance gigs, that's where, I mean, you're starting to gig, you're starting to make relationships. I started to audition. I eventually got an agent. I never booked through my agent. I never got good at auditioning. How did I work with those artists? I think it was just being a yes and being open. And I mean, this is like my broad answer because when those opportunities come, it's so left field. Like Pharrell was, I think a text from my friend Chante
00:30:11
Speaker
who was assisting Kat Burns in casting people. And she texted me, because she knows I freestyle, and that was a whole freestyle concept they have. Great. Prince, that's a whole other story, but I was fresh out of school. I happened to, by happenstance and circumstance, maybe fate, be cross paths with the person who pitched being his choreographer, and then I pitched being her assistant choreographer.
00:30:40
Speaker
She said yes. And I think like at that time, sometimes when you make bold requests, people don't even, they're like, well, okay. I was like, do you need help? What can I do? I've done this student film and I've done that and I can do that. Um, so I, I tell me if it's like too broad, but it was really just by being on the grind. And those jobs that are with big names sometimes come in that same stroke as
00:31:06
Speaker
as simply and as easily as like that bar mitzvah gig that you're dancing for four hours hyping up the audience. It's just sometimes like, for some people it's the big audition that was never it for me. It was just matriculating through the dance world and working my butt off.
00:31:22
Speaker
and coming up with ideas that were out of like the ordinary, right? Like just asking her to be her assistant choreographer. Well, so that's me skipping over a whole thing. So I was in a self-development course at the time under something called Landmark. Some people think it's a cult, it's absolutely not. I was in a course and the whole point of it is that you're creating expanded results in your life. And so at the time they had a homework assignment
00:31:48
Speaker
And in this course, my coach happened to be Danielle Ortiz. Danielle had danced with Brian Friedman. He was the teenager, and she was the 20-year-old. She had danced with Janet Jackson, Michael Jackson. And because of the schedule complex, she never got to dance with Prince.
00:32:10
Speaker
And so that was something on her bucket list. She'd done over 100 music videos. She'd done multiple world tours. She was like the it dancer at a certain point. She retired by the time she was 30, went into acting. And then we have this homework assignment, which is called bold requests. At the time it's called unreasonable requests, where you have a reason not to ask something, but you ask it anyway. You look for opportunities, things that are going to move forward.
00:32:33
Speaker
your life your goals the things that matter to you a bold request could be asking someone on a date or it could be um you're at a party and prince is there and you're saying hi prince do you have a choreographer and prince says well the twins man andy they do their own stuff and then perhaps this person says
00:32:56
Speaker
Prince, I've done this, I've done that, I've done that. And then me going saying, wow, Danielle, this is so amazing. Do you have an assistant? I would love to assist you. Now, I think, so we were both in the context, but it was literally a homework assignment. And I would say it's one of the best courses I've ever done because I got to work with Prince. It was a request. That's cool. It shows you how there's no straight path for any of this stuff, you know? Yeah. I mean, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.
00:33:25
Speaker
Go ahead. Sometimes I have felt like, oh, do I share this? Because I wanted to feel like I was discovered. But it's like everyone has their own path. And if you're working hard, it can actually look like that. Like it never has to look.
00:33:45
Speaker
So like I'm not saying what you've gone through hasn't been hard and you've worked hard. You've definitely worked hard for everything you have, but sometimes it'll just happen when you're okay with just giving it a shot, right? And not caring about the outcome. Yeah. And I ended up like, oh, sorry. I ended up working for the WMB as an in-house choreographer.
00:34:08
Speaker
from 2017 to 2022. And that to me is actually, like on the resume, I know celebrity names is the biggest thing. However, working for the WNBA, this major organization and getting to have my choreography at the Staples Center, now known as Crypto.com Arena, I've probably easily had 60 pieces, 70 pieces, 80 pieces on there. That's one of my proudest things.
00:34:30
Speaker
And the way that I was referred by someone who had gone to college with me, I had created a dance crew at USC when I was going there. She knew me because I was doing my thing. And then I found out only last year that they had been considering my name to be an entertainment director. And they asked another entertainment director if he knew me and he did. That was
00:34:53
Speaker
It was lucky, Eric lucky, and Eric was one of the first dance gigs I did when I graduated college. So it's like, you never know by being a yes to things and working on your own thing, like people will notice and you never know in which rooms your name is going to come up. I was just going to add to it that it's a conversation that you and I have had actually many times of is if you don't ask, the answer is always no. And that when you said like that bold request, like I think that's an anything like where is that going to push you forward? So.
00:35:22
Speaker
Um, there's no straight line to anywhere where you want to go. And glee, it is so right. I mean, here you are years later, like from a job that you did years before. Like just remember that like you don't know what room you're in. So, um, there's no right or wrong path. It's just your path. Um, but the answer will always be no. Um, if you don't ask.
00:35:45
Speaker
It's amazing. It's amazing. But you brought up something I was going to talk about in a few minutes here, but now we can talk about now is your experience with the LA Sparks. Because as a choreographer for a dance team, you have to put a lot of different pieces together and you have to try to attract, make pieces that are attracted to the audience and basically trying to do choreography that's edgy and pushing the boundaries a little bit.
00:36:06
Speaker
So as a choreographer, how do you maintain trying to be as creative and pushing the choreography as far as you can go while still maintaining the health of the dancers, while still making sure that you're sane and not driving yourself nuts in all this? Really good question. So the first thing is the conversation around creative and innovative. God, it is hard when you have artistry and then it meets commerce. So you're getting paid to do a job.
00:36:35
Speaker
And what I've learned is some jobs, you're not reinventing the wheel. Meaning if I have four to six hours with dancers that are kids and teens, because I was working with the Spark Kids, the kids and teens team, to set choreography, clean it, and create formations, when I've gotten really creative, like half the time, it's not actually going to read in that space.
00:36:58
Speaker
I learned one of my biggest lessons was learning that simplifying is sometimes what's most effective in choreography in this arena when you're hyping people up. And I also learned that I have a voice so my own stuff like
00:37:14
Speaker
I usually freestyle and slowly mold choreography out of that. So I'm never, you know, I don't think it's reinventing the wheel, especially they wanted me to stick to hip hop. So I'm doing hip hop. I'm not inventing hip hop, but I am, I think it's the personality. That's the voice that shines through that like I'm quirky. If a step feels really fun and looks kind of crazy, I will always keep it just about. Um, but then to your question about, well, how do we keep dancers safe?
Balancing Creativity and Safety in Dance
00:37:44
Speaker
Um, it's really simple. I mean, that's a priority and I usually, not usually, like I'd always tell the kids and it's the hardest thing cause these are competition kids. These are kids that are excelling. These are kids that are pushing through all the time. And so I tell them like, if you are injured, if you are not feeling well, it is not worth it. And I'd reiterate, it is not worth it. And please remember this for your jobs, for everything else you do. If I need to, um, put in an alternate or recreate, redo the formation, I can do that.
00:38:14
Speaker
And yeah, like just being so clear that there's no, that's where I can be creative and that's where I can do my job. My job is to make you look good. Your job is to make the choreography look good. All of our job is to entertain people.
00:38:30
Speaker
Now here's the thing that they won't necessarily tell me. So I just would try to keep an eye and sometimes I'd like look them in the eye and be like, are you lying to me? And still sometimes, um, but yeah, what that means is that it's, I'd encourage them to share if they have an injury or an ache and work around it. Um, if we have tumblers, if one of them had a sprain or something, then they don't tumble.
00:38:55
Speaker
That's it. If we have two instead of three or we, we figure out something else that's visually appealing, great, but it's just not worth it. And that worked really well. The only thing is that I can only go so far. Like if someone is lying and they're faking and they're pushing through and you know, um, yeah. And we've had before we had a sprain before and we have a medic that would come and help them. And then I'd also talk to their parents about, you know, different ways that they can take care of their bodies.
00:39:24
Speaker
Um, but that's how I did it. I think if you prioritize it, it's just not the hardest thing in the world. And you have to be willing as a teacher and as a choreographer to be flexible and let go of your vision to have a healthy team. And if not, like I would question that. And I also, well, I invite challenges, like I'm repeating it, but that's my job as a choreographer. I'm given all of these different things. You have to do hip hop, do authentic hip hop. You have this many dancers. You have this much time.
00:39:51
Speaker
make it happen. And I'm like, cool, it's like a game. These are the rules. That's it. Yeah, so it's not like every show is known by the audience, right? I mean, it's not like the audience knows exactly what's supposed to happen. And then if you don't do it just the way they want it, then they're going to be upset. It's like, you're presenting it, you know, entertainment, and then they won't know if you're supposed to have two or three or four. But a lot of times people who get involved in that world
00:40:18
Speaker
They can't let go of what their vision is supposed to be and they tend to take that out on the dancers themselves, it seems like. Yeah, that's not cool. I'm 35 years old. I feel the best in my body that I ever have. It's because I've learned how to pace myself out. I want to keep dancing. I will be a dancer for life.
00:40:39
Speaker
And I know what it takes is longevity. And I tell, sometimes when I teach them, like dancers, I want us to all be cutting a rug when we're a hundred. So let's all be healthy. I want, like, I see the big picture here. And in terms of entertainment, entertainment is a whole skill set and it's a whole art. And it is not about any single step you do. It's about the energy you're putting out there. And yes, tumbling is amazing, but you can also hype up a crowd using your arms. Like,
00:41:08
Speaker
Yeah. And the audience is not, if it's one person looking for imperfections, then they came to the wrong thing. You know, even a judges panel, if they're looking for technical perfection, there also might be a category for artistic expression. You know? Yeah.
00:41:26
Speaker
Jennifer, how do you advocate for dancers' health with Doctors for Dancers? What was your mission when you formed that organization to address the things that Galit was just talking about? I think Galit nailed it. One of the biggest things that everybody's talking about is being able to
00:41:47
Speaker
Be humble enough to let go of some of your vision that you wanted to do. There is a thing of modification. I love it how she mentioned like, okay, we're tricking now, but we have a sprained ankle. So why they might not be in the trick section that they're used to being in, maybe they are in another section where they are using their arms and not their leg. Not only have you helped your entire team, you didn't have to restage, right? You had that dancer still feel included.
00:42:15
Speaker
Um, I think that when we started this, we really thought of it as like injuries, like trying to help each other with that. But it's become so much more than just the physicality of dance. It's the mental portion that I didn't even realize that we were going through or all the times that I had to sit out and watch my other fellow dancers dance. Like you having to sit out in the corner is like one of the, like, I don't like timeout. I didn't like sitting in the corner when my mom did it. And I certainly didn't like it when my dance teacher did it.
00:42:44
Speaker
And I think that if we have these conversations more of like, how are you feeling and letting the know, the dancer know that it's okay to not be okay. Because what we do is very rigorous. It's this podcast is called athletes in the arts. And that's something that I really want dancers to know is that you are athletes. You're not
00:43:07
Speaker
just a dancer my air quotations here you're not just a dancer you're more than you're more than that and we're all human and we do break we do break and unfortunately i just see this generation of dancers way more advanced than we ever were and i see the push and i see the struggle and the struggle is real and i just wish that more educators would kind of come from a place of
00:43:36
Speaker
knowing that like it's okay. So I really strongly like commend like what Kaleet's doing with her dancers and listening to that. Thank you. Also, it's the choreographers and teachers job to protect the dancers in every way possible.
00:43:53
Speaker
that can't get lost. And I think that people, like it is the teacher's job to protect the dancer. It is the choreographer's job to protect the dancer. That's it. And it's not, I keep on saying it, no injury, no show or anything is worth the injury. No industry is worth the injury, but it's yeah, it's not worth it. Cause you're stuck with that injury forever and we're not going to be paying and fixing it. It's also just, I think scary probably for dancers because growing up it's like,
00:44:21
Speaker
if you don't make it to an audition or if you have to sit out, you're scared someone else is going to take your spot. So it's, I feel like there just has to be, I don't know if it's more education amongst choreographers or choreographers telling choreographers, Hey, this is totally possible to have someone who's injured. Maybe you, you changed the choreography a little bit that day. Like how, how, how does it work so that
00:44:50
Speaker
You know what I'm trying to say? It's like, how do we keep encouraging this so that dancers can speak up? Because it sounds like your dancers are probably going to feel really comfortable coming up to you and saying, hey, oh, OK. So I think they still don't know if they can trust it. They still have been so trained that they feel as comfortable as they possibly can to express it. But they still have blocks, I believe.
00:45:18
Speaker
Do you guys think the future of dance can make room for choreographers adjusting more?
Power Dynamics in Dance
00:45:27
Speaker
I think it's a couple of things. I think it's affirming the communication and the choice. So I actually felt, I remember when I was injured or not well, but I would sit in class and take notes. I actually felt like I am doing a great job at this because this happens. And when I'm sitting out, I'm still doing my part.
00:45:46
Speaker
And so I felt proud of it and I'm sure like some teacher had to have affirmed that for me. So I think affirming it, if a dancer is like, hey, I don't feel well, or this is like this, actually saying thank you so much for sharing that with me. Let's make sure you're okay. I think adjusting choreography will not always be possible. It depends on the job. It depends on the time you have. So I think it's a great thing to consider before sitting a dancer out. But sometimes it's like,
00:46:14
Speaker
it's going to be too full out to make that adjustment. And sometimes it's fine. And that I think is a case by case basis. But I think having it be affirmed and modeled and shared, because there are so many choreographers and teachers that are so probably steeped in, we push through, this is us being good, that they probably haven't really gotten to make contact with the other side of things. So I think like anything else, we just have to keep these conversations going and then put them in practice. And yeah.
00:46:43
Speaker
Do you see that there's still issues with the power dynamic between the choreographer, teacher, and dancer? Have you seen in your life experience people abusing that?
00:46:53
Speaker
And did you ever have that experience yourself? Your situation seems a little special because of how you sought out all these separate experiences outside of the structured dance experience you would expect to have in high school, for instance. But like, how can you speak to a little bit about the power dynamic that seems to be such a prevalent problem with young dancers? Um, I can share some of my own because I'm not in the room
00:47:17
Speaker
anymore, usually as a dancer with a choreographer who might be overbearing. But I do not think that some of these things are outdated and gone. Hell yeah. Every time I was booked, if there was a stage that was unsafe, oh my gosh, I remember dancing on a stage that was oily. They had a fog machine, and it made the stage oily. And the choreographer's mentality is you have to learn how to work on different stages. Because if you were Britney Spears' dancer, you'd figure it out.
00:47:47
Speaker
They always, and I mean, I've had so many unsafe stages, concrete floors. I was on, you know, a gig where we didn't have enough time in between a morning shoot and a night shoot to get 12, sorry, like the 12 hours so you can get eight hours of sleep. I've had choreographer, you know, sometimes like mental stuff where they stop everything and they kind of give you a talk about yourself. And I like that's kind of weird, you get used to it.
00:48:16
Speaker
Oh yeah, outfits also like not being told, Hey, your butt cheeks are going to be out for this. I mean, that's a whole mental gymnastics. And I always didn't want to be unhireable. I wanted to be a, yes, I want to be a good girl. I want to not be trouble. Um, so I've had so many of those experiences, you know, being a teenager and having a fever one morning. I don't know if I had communicated this being hired on a job, dancing on a tiny stage and being yelled at for sweating too much.
00:48:46
Speaker
So I just, oh yeah, like so many things. Also I'll say it, like going into class and I don't know that teachers have a sense of this. I think it might be the studio's job, but having music that's so loud that your ears are ringing after, like tinnitus might be around the corner. I don't know. Um, no, I don't feel comfortable speaking up about that. Still going to class and
00:49:07
Speaker
You're warming up yourself, but you don't know what the choreography is going to call on your body. It's not intentional necessarily, but that's a power dynamic right there. You don't want to speak up to the studio if it's a popular studio, because you don't want to be that person. I have in the past, but I haven't in years. You don't want to make the teacher look bad. So nobody says anything. Those are just a few things.
00:49:32
Speaker
Well, Galit, how have you, and, you know, Jennifer, this question's for you too, but how have you both handled issues or struggles around nutrition? Like, you know, how has nutrition supported you? What have you learned over the years?
Nutrition and Health for Dancers
00:49:47
Speaker
Like, what was your relationship with food like growing up? Sure. I've talked so much. Jen, do you want to start or?
00:49:56
Speaker
You don't have to give up. Sure. Sure. I think growing up my relationship with food is I ate everything. I was always eating. I ate more than all of my friends because I was just always dancing, always moving, like always on the go. My dad would meet me at late at night at 10 o'clock at night with a jumbo jack and a salad. Like that was like what I ate for dinner at 10 o'clock at night on dance nights, you know, sometimes. It's very difficult when
00:50:24
Speaker
you don't have a fridge and a place that you can cook your food and store your food. And I didn't realize that growing up because you're just so on the move all the time that it's always whatever you can grab and go. And now as an adult, I'm seeing that happen on the convention and competition circuit much more. I used to just have a big thing of pasta on competition day. And I would just eat cold pasta with olive oil and Parmesan cheese.
00:50:50
Speaker
I'm Italian but like that's just kind of like what I had for carbs all day because I didn't have a car or my dad wasn't there and I couldn't go get it. So like that's just what you had. But I think that now like dance is more prevalent. There's more studios and more people are training in such a different manner.
00:51:07
Speaker
that I feel like we really need to have these places that are set up for these kids to live at these studios to be able to prepare their food and eat well. I've been to only one studio out here in Cave Creek. It's actually a girl that I grew up with, and she has
00:51:24
Speaker
a fridge, a microwave, even a very long, long table for them to do their homework at. She even has computers in the room, cubbies for them to store their things. So I think that makes a really big difference than when I go to other studios that don't have any capability. And then I see a lot of Hot Cheetos and Sour Patch Kids, and they're just eating just processed food all the time. You don't see that meal.
00:51:47
Speaker
So I think it is a difference of having those resources available that I've noticed. But yeah, my relationship with food was just always on the go. And I see that even more prevalent now. Even little kids having coffee now. I see like eight to 10-year-olds having Starbucks at these events. Adrenal fatigue, no. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
00:52:10
Speaker
I think it's really important for us to learn how to fuel our bodies as athletes. I think it's a key piece. It's part of that team that helps make sure that they're getting the foods and the nutrients that are going to support performance and not take away from it. What about youth elite? I don't know if these are topics that you talk about.
00:52:37
Speaker
I mean, it's something also I'm like, I'm packing right now. So I grew up in a household that was very healthy, like whole foods, vegetables, fruits, a good understand, I mean, to the level of like, you know, have a fruit when it's fresh, because the vitamins are going like, you're going to get more of the vitamins out of it. And if you have, if you have cold pressed juice, or like, make sure to have it on its own. So you absorb the nutrients the best. And
00:53:03
Speaker
I, my taste buds only like junk food when I was a kid and I was a thin kid and I only liked junk food. And that was that. And then I started going through puberty. This is right before I'm dancing and I'm gaining weight, which happens in puberty. But I remember being like, Oh, I noticed this. I was warned this would happen. And it felt like something wrong that shouldn't happen. Um, and so that was just like my mentality. I remember for one meal, there was one day in middle schools, like I'm going to, um, I'm trigger warning.
00:53:33
Speaker
Um, food, you know, eating disorder. I don't think I had disordered eating, but there was one day I was like, I'm going to be, I'm going to try to be anorexic and I was like, I can't make it through this. I can't do this. Okay, fine. I can't have an eating disorder, but like my mentality was already there. It must've been sixth grade and.
00:53:49
Speaker
Um, when I started dancing, I got interested in nutrition and just eating healthier. And something I remember all through high school is I would like pack, I would like read about food and portions and I'd pack really healthy food throughout the day. And it was like a joke. I would be like always eating through class and I'd have an apple and carrots and almonds. Um, and it wasn't until I was talking to a friend like years later, she was like, yeah, I remember you had perfectly apportioned almonds. And you said like, I would love to share with you, but I have 10 and then you,
00:54:19
Speaker
And so I'm like, okay, there was maybe more going on than I noticed. And then after school, I would be starving. I would be ravenous. So I just, I didn't, I wasn't in reality with how much I, I wasn't even trying to make smaller portions. I just was doing what I thought was fully appropriate. I'm starving after school. So I'm going to have a full big bowl of popcorn and a full and top ramen. And I would overeat after, cause I was just super hungry.
00:54:46
Speaker
And then I would be really lethargic and I wouldn't feel really good. And that was that. And so because it didn't fall under bulimia or anorexia, I was like, well, I'm not like, I don't want to get in trouble, but I'm not like my ballet friends or anything. I'm like, I'm on the other side of it. And I was just obviously so conscious of it. And if I could talk to my high school self, I would just be like, enjoy that healthy food, but like just pack more, pack more, like let like try not to ever get to being that hungry.
00:55:16
Speaker
So that was it growing up. And then I think what it's turned into is I'm very into 80-20, although it's a very subjective word what clean eating is. But I try to always front load my vegetables, have cooked veggies, have raw veggies, protein, and then go and eat other stuff because I love food so much. So I see it as my fuel. And I also fully embrace that.
00:55:44
Speaker
to me like to eat super stringently um it's a little depressing to me because i like feeling that like you know have that chocolate or like overeat some and so i also embrace that
00:56:00
Speaker
and getting out of perfectionism. I wish there was an opportunity for more studio owners to have refrigerators, to have a table, to have a microwave, to emphasize the importance of, hey, let's take a little break for a quick snack to get you back into dance. When I was dancing, you couldn't have water breaks because they were scared you were going to pee.
00:56:23
Speaker
And so we only had these quick water breaks right between classes. But I was like, after I went to nutrition, I was like, wow, that was all wrong. Everything about that whole situation was wrong. And so even at competitions now, some of these competitions are in places where
00:56:40
Speaker
You might have a food truck, you might have like a 7-Eleven nearby, but there's no, people are not like going that extra step and like planning out the meals all the time or like having enough snacks that may be supportive for the dancers. So this is another area that's that can, you know, that should be focused on for the betterment of the dancer.
00:57:03
Speaker
Yeah. I also just can't focus when I'm hungry. My experience of life really sucks when I'm hungry. So I do everything I can. Like my snack game is so serious. I do everything I can to not get to that point where I'm losing focus. So how do we help dancers get a better, healthier relationship with food since the unhealthy relationship is such a prevalence. It's so prevalent in the dance world.
00:57:28
Speaker
I think one, I remember I was doing a specialization for fitness nutrition and something that really stuck with me was it was talking about in runners, but it can be for anything. And I actually would love to be refreshed in this. So Dr. K, you might, you might have the correction, but I remember, I forgot if it was after 90 minutes or 60 minutes of continuous high intensity exercise, your body starts burning muscle. It was something like that. And it was, I thought about between 40 and 45.
00:57:58
Speaker
Typically between 40 and 45 minutes, your body burns up the glycogen stored in your muscle and then you start cannibalizing your body, right? I thought it was then it goes to fat. Oh, this is a good refresher.
00:58:12
Speaker
Yeah, not typically. I can speak more about this. Actually, I can talk about it. I just feel like after every after 45 minutes of training, you should be getting a snack and you should be hydrating. You should be getting your electrolyte enhanced beverages. You know, it's just so important to talk about nutrient timing. But I'm just curious from, you know,
00:58:34
Speaker
Jennifer and Galit, how are you guys in the work that you're doing emphasizing the importance of getting enough food, eating what your body needs,
00:58:46
Speaker
being more intuitive, focusing in on what's working and what's not. How do you guys also stress the importance of nutrition as part of sleep, as part of training, as part of mental health? How do we bring these topics all together and make sure that all of these pieces are important for the dancer? Sure. I'm going to go. Education, more workshops, boots on the ground.
00:59:15
Speaker
I think ultimately that's where it is, is just having more conversations with all different generations, the pre-professionals, the dancers, the teachers, the professionals, the choreographers. It really does take everybody from all walks of life. It's not one or the other that I think it's going to help. It's really just talking about it and really understanding the culture that we're in. It's at a level that I feel like is just unobtainable.
00:59:44
Speaker
And we saw a lot of dancers with eating disorders, not eating how you how you said some of these events, they don't even have the food nearby. Or if they have a half an hour 45 minute break, like how long it takes to get the food. Or like there's, especially there's a place in Burbank that has a lot of events. It's super expensive at the hotel, but like right across the street is
01:00:05
Speaker
McDonald's and a Panda Express. So that's exactly what they're going to do is they're going to walk right across the street to go get that food and then come over. And so I don't even think McDonald's has a salad anymore. I don't even know if there's lettuce. So I think it's having these conversations about having these resources available. Maybe the conventions and competitions can start talking with the hotels ahead of time and having them
01:00:32
Speaker
have some of the food available. I have seen that at some events, and it's worked out really well for everybody for time management on what is coming on. But I think really how we're going to change it is just more education. And at our event that we're going to be having, we're going to be talking about all these things. And so I think having those like-minded individuals that are really wanting to pursue this as a career, I think the information is coming in a little bit different. But I think it's going to take all of us, to be honest. Yeah, it's going to take us all
01:01:03
Speaker
I think with also the education and circling back like to the fun fact about your muscles catabolizing after 40 to 45 minutes, did I use that word in the correct context, sentence structure? Okay. Thank you. Um, like that's really pertinent because it's like, okay dancers, we want to build up our strength and our power, but if our bodies are eating themselves, we're really capping our abilities. Um, and we're really working against it. Like, I think it's.
01:01:31
Speaker
actually going to things that matter most to the dancers. Let's make sure we get this protein in to build our muscles and carbohydrates to help synthesize it. Did you know carbs are not bad? We actually need that for energy. So I think putting it in a way that's like the most easiest, like the first easiest, simplest things to do. And also, and I know not for everyone the easiest things, but
01:01:56
Speaker
that and then also make it applicable, not even a should just like, hey, you're in this for this purpose, and this is actually going to help you. And this is how it's going to help you. So I think doing doing that and yeah, I mean, bringing in more specialists and having it I'm happy to be like starting to jump into programs and sometimes getting conditioning or talking about I was talking in a program about like rest and recovery. And I can't wait for that to be a norm, but also then turn into like
01:02:24
Speaker
a series and then maybe a regular weekly class. Yeah. And Yazi, I think also like another important thing that you mentioned is the electrolytes after 45 minutes. I think that's something that we've implemented like being on tour with these conventions. We ended up having somebody with
01:02:43
Speaker
dehydration in every single city. And so Dr. Teresa Rona, she's based out of the east side of the world, she turned us on to an electrolyte company called LMNT. And we did a whole workshop on just talking about salt. So it was really interesting. Like afterwards, some of the kids had some snacks available to them. And a lot of them were grabbing the salt.
01:03:05
Speaker
And she said, do you know why you're grabbing the salt because your body is craving it right now? So we, we now travel all the time with electrolytes. And now when we're in different cities, it's really nice to see the dancers remembering, because now we're talking about the education and the electrolytes. They come up to us now saying, can I have a packet of that before they're depleted? So it's really nice that the conversation is starting to happen.
01:03:29
Speaker
And even just the simplest thing of electrolytes, that goes a long way when you are training the way that they are. It's a serious problem. So I think that it's very good that you mentioned that. I think also food access is a whole other topic.
01:03:46
Speaker
Sure, like packets are wonderful and it's great if you have access to them. But also just knowing that you can add in more salty snacks. You can add some salt to your water. There are ways to get the nutrition you need in a way that's cost effective depending on your background and what might be available to you. But I think especially doctors for dancers, like Jen, the work that you
01:04:12
Speaker
trying to like the event that you're trying to put together to support health professionals and to just get the word out to educators about the importance of a lot of these topics.
01:04:24
Speaker
is gonna be really helpful because who knows what can come out of it. I mean, it would be great one day to see at these different events, dance events, having more menu options, having kiosks that might have, you know, like a fueling station, like a mini fueling station for dancers to just come up and get the things that they need and then get back into training. And I mean, that would be like the ideal world, right? Where you can have these options available to dancers.
01:04:52
Speaker
It'd be a dream. It's a dream to have a warm up being able provided at these events by a proper warm up. And that's something Galit also, I think, didn't mention earlier with the LA Spark Kids is with her personal training background, she was able to warm them up. And also, she's the choreographer as well. So she wore many, many hats. And I don't even think that she knows that she was able to use all the education from her dance background and the warm up.
01:05:22
Speaker
and be able to create that on the movement. And Galit's been with us for a long time. And she also geeks out with me. And we learn from Dr. K and you Yazi. And then we take that and we try to put it back into our community. So I think it just it's it all revolves of all the information that we learn we can now take that back into our community and do that. And I tell everybody like, yes, we're dancers right in the dance community. But
01:05:46
Speaker
The people that are doctors for dancers went to school. They have a medical background and a lot of them are dancers and they get this world. So let's take this information that we're learning to better our community, you know, so we can have that longevity that everybody desires instead of just cranking it all in right now and not eating, not sleeping, not drinking, having teachers withdraw water. I don't know how many times I've, I've heard that people cannot have water because we're training you to be professional dancers.
01:06:16
Speaker
If you are training to be a professional dancer, then you need to stay hydrated. I use an example all the time of Tom Brady, which is now retired. We can probably use another one, whoever's on the up and coming. But if for one second they thought that him as a professional would be better off
01:06:35
Speaker
winning the Super Bowl with no water because he's a professional, he's a warrior, he's pushing through. Well, then they wouldn't have somebody come from the sideline, walk over and not hand him the water. They squirt it in his mouth because that's how much they believe in hydration because they know that it's better for him to keep his performance going, right?
01:06:56
Speaker
So, like, if we can take what sports medicine has been doing, and they are learning all the techniques, right, so to perform better, let's take some of those techniques and move them over to dance. Let's hydrate our dancers. Let's make sure they have enough water. Let's make sure they have nutrition. Like, the NFL, they also, the night before they have a curfew, they're going to bed. They're not rehearsing till one in the morning.
01:07:19
Speaker
They're not. They're not having four hours of sleep. They're not. So why are we doing that to our children? And why are we doing that to our professional dancers? Like, this is everybody's tool. This is your body that is going to be your career. And for the rest of your life, whether you're going to be a dancer as a career or not, what you're doing as a pre professional is going to affect you for the rest of your life. So I've talked to people that I've danced with people that I haven't danced with that are now grown. And those dance injuries are still affecting them today.
01:07:48
Speaker
And you know what they all say? I wish I would have known. I wish I would have known. I wish I would have known XYZ. And that's why we're here today is so that we can spread this education so that you can know, so that you can pull back so that while maybe you're not working out for an hour and a half, maybe now you're only doing 30 to 45 minutes. Why? Because you don't need that extra. And we don't need to fatigue you. We don't need to have that nutrition taken away from you.
01:08:14
Speaker
We don't need to have that water. Now you have that break, you have that food, you have that warm up. Like your body's going to be better than ever. But for some reason in the dance industry, we think that more is better. And I think we need to pull it back a little bit. Let's work smarter, not harder. You know? It's interesting because I remember I was in a dance training program when I was a teenager and there was specific reasoning.
01:08:36
Speaker
Um, there was an amount of time where we go really hard with training. They also gave us overload training. They were talking about how it was like, I forgot if it was given to the Navy seals or what. And I mean, some cool things came out of it. I got shin splints, but I also like knocked out more pushups than I've ever done. And they also would keep us from drinking water for a certain amount of time. And I think they maybe had some scientific backing. They also talked about how when you're on stage, it's going to be hot. So you want your body to be used to not hydrating.
01:09:02
Speaker
So that's, that's what I was taught. And it took me a while to come back or like come around to, if you need to drink water, drink water. The event that you are, you referred to a couple of times briefly before Doctors for Dancers. I know Galit, you're very involved in this. Jennifer, of course, you're putting it on. So tell us about this event that's coming up.
Upcoming Events and Closing Remarks
01:09:19
Speaker
Jen. I'm so excited about this event. It's called the Dance Mix.
01:09:24
Speaker
And it's going to be a three-day event for the entire community. Everybody's invited, kind of how we talked about earlier. It's going to take all of us to come together and learn this information so that we can really kind of push our community forward on making dancers' health a priority, learning how to train like an artistic athlete. That's what this event is about.
01:09:47
Speaker
Um, this event is about everything that we, that we mentioned earlier, the sleep, the recovery, the warmup, the cool down. Um, I'm so excited. Dr. Cara Jesus is going to be there. Yeah. He's going to be there. Everybody's going to be there. And it's so interesting. Cause we're all in different capacity. Like delete is on our amazing elite educator team that, um, we are creating a personalized warmup for our dancers that are going to be there.
01:10:13
Speaker
based upon the choreography. So you will have a couple of our choreographers submitting their choreography ahead of time to our team. We have personal trainers, physical therapists, athletic trainers, and we have Dr. Julia Iafrady overseeing everything with our advisory board. Like everything is being overseen because we want to create something spectacular for the community that you can learn that we can bring in dance medicine and science in a fun way.
01:10:39
Speaker
It doesn't have to be on a whiteboard. We don't have to be sitting down making all these notes and stuff. We can learn how to warm up our bodies so that you are ready for the choreography that is about to get you. Because the training is real, right? Let's be honest. The training is not two-step. We have some very high-end choreographers that we've already announced, like Taylor Knight, Kyle Lester, Sienna Lyons. What?
01:11:02
Speaker
Like we're going to be going over heels, which that's a whole nother entity. If you want to be a professional dancer, heels is, you got to get in them, right? Like, but how can you train like that? Um, that's a different training because you're working so many different parts of your body and we want to be able to let you know how that's going to work so that you're not blowing out a knee because you're in heels because you haven't trained properly. And so Glade has a really amazing cross training.
01:11:29
Speaker
background to be able to implement this. So I'm really excited about that. And Yazi, she's part of our nutritional team. We are going to be curating a lunch for you, learning how to fuel your body. That's the number one question that we get all the time is, I don't know what to eat. Like, what do I eat in the morning? Because especially if you're a convention, I mean, there's really kind of sometimes no time to eat, but you know that you're going to be dancing for five hours before your lunch break.
01:11:55
Speaker
how on earth can i feel my body and which way so we're gonna be able to talk about that what portions look like what kind of foods do things for you and you have people that you can actually ask those questions we're gonna actually sit down and have a meal together i'm while usually at it usually events you're running and busting like we were talking about earlier going to the next over there we can actually sit down and enjoy ourselves.
01:12:18
Speaker
We'll have breaks in between. We'll have snacks. We'll have a recovery station for you because you are going to be working hard. And like Gilead said, we need that rest and recovery in there. What's that going to look like? Dr. Carrageenis is going to be doing free assessments like
01:12:34
Speaker
That in itself should get anybody to come to this event, to be able to see that. And not only is he, if you have something going on and you want to come see him, if you're a choreographer, a teacher, a dancer, but he's also, if you're an up and coming PT or you're already a PT or AT or doctor, come and learn and actually watch his techniques of how he actually goes through the process of doing it. I've been lucky enough to watch him.
01:12:59
Speaker
do assessments and it's amazing. And he asks questions. What are you doing? What kind of genre are you doing? What does it feel like when you're turning or you're tricking or you're leaping? Like he asks all these questions and looks at your body of movement and then he just does his thing. It's really amazing. I don't think people understand like how special it is to have individuals like yourselves to be able to come in and talk about these things.
01:13:24
Speaker
Um, but that's just a little bit about what we're doing, but it's going to be an amazing event, um, based upon how to train like an artistic athlete. I will say that I would give all that up for one day to dance with Prince. So I will. So part of my reason for doing all this is jealousy. So, um, very jealous of what you guys. Prince is, um, I think like his hips hurt. We have print prints, all of those, like.
01:13:54
Speaker
Flits and jumps and everything, you know? Bad on the hip joints. You need bad on the hip joints. You needed this too. But in all seriousness though, the work that Doctors for Dancers has been doing for many years is amazing. Galit, your work, I mean, to go from dancer to dancer reject in high school.
01:14:16
Speaker
to a dancer, professional dancers, professional choreographer, and then going into the fitness world and training world, and then taking all that and applying it to doctors with the answers and presenting all this work while you're still dancing and choreographing, I think just shows how much your passion can take one person and make a big difference in the world. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.
01:14:40
Speaker
So Galit and Jennifer, I want to give you my heartfelt thanks for being on our show today. It's really, really a joy to have. We're going to talk to you for an hour and a half here. So we got to leave it here. So thank you so much. And God bless. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you.
01:14:57
Speaker
And that's a wrap on this show. Remember, if you like what you hear, please click subscribe and maybe leave a review as well. For my co-host, Yasi Ansari, this is Stephen Karaginas, and this has been the Athletes and the Arts Podcast.