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#11: Top 3 Most Annoying TV Leads
67 Plays1 year ago
There are a lot of frustrating TV main characters out there, but these ones really get our goat. And for the first time ever, all three of us have the same person on our list. It's a very special occasion for an especially frustrating lead! Honorable mentions include:
1. Larry David, Curb Your Enthusiam
2. George Costanza (aka Larry David), Seinfeld
3. Seinfeld, Seinfeld
4. Raymond, Everybody Loves Raymond,
5. The King from King of Queens,
6. The King from King of the Hill
Follow us at @MyTopEverything on Twitter and Insta for updates! Email us at mytopeverythingpodcast@gmail.com with topic suggestions, comments, or questions.
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Transcript
Mara's Halloween Pajamas
00:00:00
Speaker
What are you laughing at? I think she's laughing at the fact that I just pulled a tag out of my armpit. Yeah, Mara's putting her hair up while you're talking and I just saw her look down and pluck a piece of paper out from her armpit.
00:00:13
Speaker
There I open these pajamas today. Oh, I thought these were old. Why did you order these at people? These are like Halloween. Yeah, they're- Why'd you buy these? Okay, for everyone who's listening, they're Halloween pajamas. Did you just buy these? No, they were a Christmas present. Okay. All right, they might have been- Who? My mom, obviously. Why is that obvious? Alita. Alita. Who else would buy this for me? Why would you-
00:00:40
Speaker
Listen, she may listen to this, but I gotta say, Anita, Halloween pajamas have to be like one of the most wild gifts to get someone because like, yeah, you can't wear that all the time. Watch me. It's April. Also, why mummy? Like, why? I think it's funny because it's like mummy. I thought Mara bought them for herself for that reason. So it's very weird that your mom got you then. One, for Christmas. Two, that they say a mummy on them. And three, that you're just opening them in April.
00:01:09
Speaker
Amen, b****s. The Halloween's year-round.
Temporary Host Kara
00:01:24
Speaker
Welcome to My Top Everything. My name is Kara. I'll be your temporary host until Marion takes over. And I'm Mara. I'm Marion.
00:01:36
Speaker
It's too early for Marion, so Kara's here with one cup of coffee already in her system. Yes, Queen! A coup has happened. Welcome to today's episode. This episode is some three most annoying TV character leads. Am I right? Did I do it? Correct. You said it as a question. Correct. Thank you. Thank you.
Haunted Apartment Tales
00:02:00
Speaker
All right. So we're going to start off by
00:02:04
Speaker
seeing if there's any updates, anybody have any updates? I don't. It's been so recent. You're going to be so verbose today. My friend Ashley did say a quick update. She believes that the first floor of her apartment complex is haunted. Wow.
00:02:23
Speaker
Let's go, Ashley. Good luck. Like a good haunting or like a scary haunting? She says that it's a friendly. She doesn't. She has never interacted with this ghost, but the people on her. It's like a really old. I think it's probably from like maybe 1900. It's like an older building. And she says people on the first floor have witnessed like the ghost in apparition form in the hallways. Well, it's kind of big, which I would hate.
00:02:48
Speaker
My mom, by the way, my mom said when I was prepping for that episode, she said that she would often come. So they lived in a small town in northern Iowa and they always rented different farmhouses because they couldn't afford to buy, I think. And she said that one of the old houses was like a big Victorian beautiful house and she would walk in from school every day and she would see a ghost rocking in the chair as she walked in the door and she would just walk past.
00:03:12
Speaker
like just accepted that this like ghost was present rocking in the chair. And I was like, did you ever tell anyone or like ask your siblings if they also saw it? And she was like, no, I just like said hi and walked into school to get my snack or whatever. And I was like, wow.
00:03:28
Speaker
Okay. That's the proper response. My grandparents grew up on a farm house, right? Because they're farmers. And apparently one night my mom woke up and the house is in a wreck. And my grandmother looked her in the eye and was like, the devil is here last night. But I'm pretty sure they just got into a fight.
00:03:59
Speaker
I mean, I guess that's what the devil was here last night means. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, yikes. That's why I'm hearing that as a child feels like a very Catholic thing. Correct. Yeah. I'm going to start saying that the devil was here. People. Yeah. When I invite people over and it's messy, I would say the devil was here last night. What you're going to do.
00:04:23
Speaker
What you gonna do? You can't deny that? I can't wait to say that too.
Period Education and Humor
00:04:32
Speaker
I never thought about how I could just be using that in my daily life. Yeah. Somebody's like, why isn't that done? You say the devil was here last night.
00:04:42
Speaker
how to entertain him. I can't. You know the rules. It's like Santa Claus. You have to put out the cookies and the milk or your house or he's not comfortable. Yeah. And that's why we have monthly periods. The devil gives us the monthly period because he's eating my first born. What? I. Sorry, what?
00:05:15
Speaker
Especially since your period, I think we have a duty to probably educate any of the male listeners who are listening, but your period is uterine lining. It's not a baby. Not a baby. And an egg.
00:05:31
Speaker
tiny teeny baby egg. Yeah, but that's not the main part of your, I mean, your period. I mean, I know that. All the blood is from your uterine lining. Just shedding.
00:05:44
Speaker
It's good stuff. Your egg just gets dissolved. Oh, is that true? Yeah. Yeah, all this stuff you see is tissue. Yeah, so the egg gets reabsorbed. Before the uterine lining sluffs off? Oh. And then the lining sluffs off. Educating the host today, too. Got him. Who wants to go first today? Maybe Marion?
00:06:13
Speaker
Oh, good.
Guessing Game and Speaking Order
00:06:15
Speaker
She's had the most time to prep. I have a I have an idea. OK. Little competition, little competition. Yeah. OK, I'm listening to get my attention. I had to thought of it before I said that statement out loud. Grayson should just come up with a number. Yeah. One through 50 and let's all type a number.
00:06:42
Speaker
And then whoever gets closest goes first. But don't send it yet. No, I already have it typed. Everyone ready? Yeah. Yeah. Go. Twenty seven. Oh, I get it. No, by one. Mary gets it. Yeah. Surely the loser. Yeah. No. Aren't we glad that we just did that?
00:07:08
Speaker
Damn, I was so excited about winning and then so sad. Classic man. Yeah, so the number was 27 and Cara guessed one. Which... Respect.
00:07:22
Speaker
I think it should be loser because then you did that on purpose. Yeah, no one should have to go. OK, well, if she didn't want to go first, she's really playing the game. So some of us knew what we were doing. No, why would the winner go first? I said the winner goes first and then after that. OK.
00:07:42
Speaker
Well, in the future when we do this, that's not how we're doing it. If you remember to say that at the beginning. And then Mara says, said 17 and I said 36. So I was... You were really close to losing. Congrats. Now I got to look at my list and figure it out. So I hope you're happy. We'll be on here longer. I'm not happy about that.
Annoying 90s Sitcom Characters
00:08:07
Speaker
I have an honorable mention. The my honorable mention for this episode is like basically any 90s nuclear family sitcom where there's a male head of household. And he's like, I mean, so for example, King of the Hill, King of Queens.
00:08:29
Speaker
Everybody loves Raymond. Full House. Yes. But well, no, not Full House because there's three of them. And she's like, she's like, I got an idea. Zara. Amen. Yeah, but they're not. I mean, the whole thing about it is like three men trying to learn a maternal way of like like they're trying to fill in the maternal gap of like raising three daughters. So like there is like a lot of softness in Full House that isn't in these other ones.
00:08:59
Speaker
Because the idea is like, oh, how crazy is it to be a man that's married with children? And like, how annoying is that? Isn't that hilarious? Like, God, my wife's always nagging me. But not Malcolm in the middle. Exactly. Because Malcolm in the middle is not about a head of household. It's about Malcolm, who's a teenager, not the head of a household.
00:09:24
Speaker
Yeah, you're just talking about sitcom families. But for example, like Roseanne doesn't fall in this category because Roseanne has a female head up household. And actually, John Goodman is like one of the best parts of that show as like the supportive husband. Yeah, she's really, really great. The writers really did a good job with him. And then the only exception that I could think of of an actual
00:09:54
Speaker
like family sitcom with a man head of household who's also kind of a man child where I wasn't annoyed. I think at times was home improvement. There was something about. Yeah. Even though Tim Allen's kind of, I guess, a trash person in real life. Like I mean, so is Roseanne Barr. So but.
00:10:17
Speaker
So maybe that's it, maybe your main, if your main actor is a trash person in real life, then they can play a not trash person on TV. Yeah, because they're playing a character. Whereas I'm sure that Ray Romano is actually probably a lovely person, just like that, kind of stumbling lovely person. Yeah, me either. So I'm going to assume that he is pretty okay, since I haven't heard anything. I already anticipated an update next week.
00:10:47
Speaker
Turns out, guys. But then he has to play. I mean, everything loves Raymond, truly, like used to. My dad and I used to go to this like hole in the wall Italian restaurant on the south side of Des Moines. It was which one? Yeah. No, no, I saw a hole in the wall like literally like I can't even remember the name of it because it wasn't like any of the cool ones. It was literally like it had four
00:11:15
Speaker
plastic tables and chairs and like some TVs and all of the food came in like foil and It was like literally but they had the best spicy pasta. So that's why we went and it literally looked like a
00:11:31
Speaker
crap out front like it looked like there was nothing there basically and then when you went in there were like a couple seats and like they always had this fan going and it was just ugly inside but anyway we would sit and we ate it eat on our paper plates or whatever from the kitchen and every time we went it would be everybody loves Raymond on the tv i'm not sure how like it literally was never not everybody loves Raymond
00:11:54
Speaker
And I just remember cringing all the time, even as a child, being forced to watch this stupid man. I really hated Everything Loves Raymond.
00:12:06
Speaker
Yeah, because he's a dick to his wife and he quote unquote hates his mom, but he also loves her and is like a man child. And then the mom, the mother in law and the wife, like they don't get along at all. They're all it's all very like they're all stereotypical and it's very stereotypical and it like doesn't really I always like wonder at the poor women who have to agree to be the sitcom wife because I'm like
00:12:34
Speaker
Yeah, mostly King of the Hill. I don't really have anything to add to that. Everybody loves Raymond, but the King of the Hill. Like, why is she with him? Yeah. So my honorable mentions are George Costanza from Seinfeld. He is just a whiny baby that has. He's not a TV lead. It's literally called Seinfeld.
00:12:55
Speaker
But he's one of the top. You can still have more than one lead. This is why he's my honorable mention. I did think about, listen, when I was preparing for this, I thought, how is Marion going to attack me on the podcast with this stuff? I thought, what is the definition of annoying? What is a TV lead? I had to look up if a TV lead was the actor or the character. I'm still not sure, but I think it's the character. Is it? Nice. If you go to...
00:13:22
Speaker
A play called Romeo and Juliet is the lead character, the actor, or Romeo and Juliet? Romeo and Juliet. Yeah, so there you go. But I was trying to prepare. I was like, I'm not going to get negative points. How am I going to get negative points? It's going to be because, okay, so the other two... I'm going to say a quick way to get negative points is to say, you know, who's one of the most annoying TV leads?
00:13:45
Speaker
George Costanza from Seinfeld. He is a lead, though. It's about the four of them, and they each have their own storylines. There's an ensemble, but it is called Seinfeld, and Jerry Seinfeld is the lead in it. I agree he's a lead. I agree that George Costanza is also a lead.
00:14:00
Speaker
I think you can have more than one lead, even though the name is Seinfeld. I agree you can have more than one lead, but George can say, if the name, that's like saying that in the Prince of Bel Air, that like Will Smith is not the lead of that show. She's not saying that Seinfeld isn't the lead. Yeah.
00:14:20
Speaker
I'm saying that Seinfeld is the lead of the show and George Costanza is not the lead of the show, because otherwise it'd be called Seinfeld and Constanza. Well, this is good that it's her honorable mention, then. Exactly. This is why I did it, actually. I will say that he's not a supporting character either, though, because he has his own. Yes, he is. No, because he has his own storyline. He is the storyline for a lot of it. He's in every scene. He's not in every scene. I mean, basically.
00:14:49
Speaker
I would say he's usually the B storyline. Yeah. Yeah. But there's usually A, B, C and D in a story. Oh, I thought there were only three. Anyway, so George Costanza not on my list because he's not a TV lead and also because I haven't watched enough of the show to like really be able to defend that one, to be honest. But he's just like he's he complains about everything and then he doesn't do anything about it. And I really it's very annoying to me.
00:15:17
Speaker
Archer is also one of my honorable mentions.
Character Annoyance vs Hatred
00:15:20
Speaker
I'm not done with Seinfeld because a different one, which is that not arguing over this incorrect nomenclature, but because I actually think Seinfeld is more annoying than George Constanza. He is also super annoying. I almost put Seinfeld on this list as one of the most annoying TV leads.
00:15:41
Speaker
Yeah, because I think that George Constanza, at least like his stuff is funny because he has like an actual personality. But I think that Jerry Seinfeld has no personality as a character and is very boring as well as annoying in it because he's.
00:16:00
Speaker
Selfish and lame and at least rich Costanza I could stanza has like some funny things that happened to him or like if something funny happens to him and Jerry It's because Costanza did it but Costanza is also gross. So I think all three it's like it's kind of like it's always sunny like they're all just not good people and say what I felt like they're just all not good people I Find them annoying
00:16:26
Speaker
I was reading, AKA I was on TikTok, and they were comparing those two shows, but they were talking about how the most in-depth emotional scene in Seinfeld was whoever that woman's name. What's her name? Oh, the curly hair? Elaine? Sure. I've never actually seen Seinfeld. Julia Louise Dreyfuss, the other ensemble.
00:16:48
Speaker
The other woman. Yeah, the other woman. No, no, no. She's reading a greeting card and they were talking about and laughing about how that's the most emotional scene of the entire series. But then, like, it's always sunny. We'll get into a lot of emotions, even though they are terrible people. They like don't stray away from. I also think it's like the comedy of it is like and it's always sunny, like.
00:17:18
Speaker
It's making fun of those characters. They never really get ahead or anything. Whereas in Seinfeld, I feel like Seinfeld is making fun of other people and situations as well. And it feels like meaner. To me, Seinfeld feels like a meaner show than it's always sunny because it's always sunny. It doesn't usually
00:17:42
Speaker
You know, it's not like those characters are ever better. But I feel like Seinfeld's written from like a Jerry Seinfeld and Larry David perspective where it's like, oh, this thing happened to me the other day. And it was crazy. And like, yeah, so George Costanza is based off of Larry David. Makara, did you know this?
00:18:01
Speaker
Did is Larry, sorry, is Larry David the guy that does that show that I've heard your enthusiasm? Yes, I want to add him to my list because I hate that show. But OK, here's the thing is I was trying to decide between annoying and hate. I hate the following characters. That one. What's his name?
00:18:18
Speaker
Larry David or George Costanza? I mean, you're talking about the same person because Larry David wrote George after him. Makes sense. Like Larry David. And I also hate Archer and House, like all of those characters that are just like bigoted. God, I hate. And then they're just big assholes. They still get to like sleep with women somehow and have like professional jobs and like they all. Oh, God, this is the problem. This is this is the problem is that like those characters, what makes them
00:18:45
Speaker
like annoying and gross is like the guys are like oh haha like i can poke fun at this character i wrote but also he's like actually kind of cool and comes out on top and like blah blah blah and that's like what's like yeah like house is a great example of like somebody who it's like you want to shake him because it's like it's not fair that this guy even the look yeah but like i think i can hear like matthew's voice arguing well like
00:19:10
Speaker
House is addicted to drugs and blah, blah, blah. But I'm like, why do people keep giving him chances? Why do we keep like, like, I don't want to watch him like I don't have everything up. I yeah, I hate. Yeah. So all of these all of these shows that I'm talking about are ones that I've seen like two episodes and I hate so intensely that I won't even watch them because they're so offensive. They're so stupid. They're so mind numbingly. I hate like I hate them.
00:19:37
Speaker
Okay. I've gotten my rant out. Thank you. Great work. Thanks. Okay. All right, Marion. Now you can go. This number three is going to be controversial. All right. All right. I'm ready. Rory from Gilmore Girls. Yeah. Yeah. I think she's extremely annoying after like the first or second season. Yeah. I think there's like
00:20:01
Speaker
There's a good time with her. There's like a golden era when she's the first two seasons. It's like when she's what she's supposed to be, which is like a high achieving kid. And maybe it's because we all are pretty similar to Rory in the sense of like.
00:20:18
Speaker
we were working really hard in high school or whatever. And like, you know, kind of like in that same mindset as her. But I found it really difficult. Like when they started unraveling her and making her choose like really, really poor decisions, like sleeping with Dean while he was married or like basically all of college. The entire Logan storyline made me so angry.
00:20:45
Speaker
And then, yeah, and like her the part where she and Lorelei weren't talking. And then even in the like, you know, the bonus season. Oh, my God. The bonus season. I did not see like where she doesn't have her life together.
00:21:01
Speaker
and basically ends up in the same situation as her mom, where at the end of the series, she's like pregnant, and like, yeah, you haven't watched it, oh man. I didn't even know it existed. It's been six years. What? It's been six years since it was out. I just didn't know it existed. Do I pay attention? No. I guess not. Mara and I would, I was in Australia at the time, and Mara and I would set up dates, and we would watch it over the phone, and we would press to go. No FOMO, it's fine.
00:21:29
Speaker
But yeah, it was honestly horrendous. I think that was a very a sickness of like a showrunner not knowing how to give us what we
00:21:40
Speaker
wanted and thinking that people wanted us like thinking that was more interesting to kind of like sabotage Roy's character than like I mean I think kind of the promise of the show which was that Rory would end up in a better spot than Lorelei and like what does it mean like if Rory ends up
00:21:58
Speaker
in the same position. What does that mean? Like, what was all of that for? Like, I think what are you trying to say? One, I don't think that Lorelei made it any like mistakes or like that it was a bad thing that she got pregnant with Rory or that I don't I haven't seen the last season, so I don't know. But I don't think that that's like necessarily a negative thing. I do think that adding the complexity of Rory made her a more interesting character as opposed to just somebody that studies and reads and is perfect all the time. So I appreciate that they did some
00:22:28
Speaker
changing of her, but when it became kind of the opposite of what her character is, is where it bothered me. So like she always was so happy to be around Lorelei and like appreciative of everything Lorelei did for her. And so when they didn't talk, I think that's like fucked up. And then like being an immoral person is the complete opposite of her actual characters. So those sorts of things bothered me. But I think that it was good that they gave her some other storylines like depth.
00:22:55
Speaker
You know, well, what are the ones you're thinking of? Yeah, like the ones that we're talking about are the bad ones. Yeah, the ones that are like that made those were like unforgivable. Yeah, like they like her turn our eyes for like her, like not caring about.
00:23:11
Speaker
a big exam and flunking out and stealing a boat. There's just no way. Like that was I was literally sitting there like that's not even if she like didn't care about college anymore. That's not Rory. I was like, no, no, her like rebellion would have been like, I don't like it would have been way smaller than that. It wouldn't have been stealing a boat or not taking that exam.
00:23:32
Speaker
The idea that someone like Rory at 36 wouldn't have a job and wouldn't have anything and would be like, that's how it starts out in the new season. Like, we're basically back where we were. And I feel like there were promises made about like what the show would be that aren't fulfilled. Like, Lane doesn't get out of Stars Hollow. Like, she basically is a mom and nothing has changed. And like, she doesn't have a band or like, you know what I'm saying? Like, just like a bunch of things that are like,
00:24:01
Speaker
super lame like Lorelei and Luke are just like
00:24:07
Speaker
married, but nothing's happened. Like they basically made it stagnant for 10 years and then like, yeah, like nothing happened. It was so rude. And then it was like, yeah. And I feel like the premise of the show was like, Lorelei wants her daughter to be different from her and have a different fate than she had. And that's like Lorelei's whole goal. And Rory is like this super high achieving, incredible person. And like we want to watch her journey as she succeeds. And then like it just felt
00:24:36
Speaker
like, what did you think the show was about? Like, to the showrunner, basically. What were we doing here like this whole time?
Gilmore Girls Ending and Rory
00:24:45
Speaker
Is this always how you thought I was going to end? Because that's kind of like how does that do you think that the writers were the same between the normal? Yeah, it was Amy Sherman, Palladino and her husband the whole way. But I think having watched some of Amy Sherman, Palladino's like other stuff, I I don't really like.
00:25:01
Speaker
trust her as a showrunner anymore because I think that's kind of what she does. She also did Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, which is like she sets up these really great characters and situations. And like, I feel like the promise of Marvelous Mrs. Maisel is like,
00:25:21
Speaker
You know, she's going to go off and like, we're going to watch her build her career and like be amazing. Be a strong female comedian. And then like she keeps getting back with her ex and like things like that. And like that wouldn't make sense and wouldn't happen. And so like, I don't. Yeah, I did. I no longer trust this person to be able. Like she's very good at drawing me in. She can't close it invested, but she's not closer. Yeah. Interesting.
00:25:47
Speaker
Anyway, so that was my third is really good. Yeah. And also, I just love that for the other series or like the four episodes that happened 10 years later, the best storyline was the grandma. Oh, my God, who's eluding me? Yeah. Yes. But and I feel like
00:26:08
Speaker
The only reason that was so good, because it was a fantastic storyline, very unexpected, very hilarious. The only reason that was good is because the actor who played her husband, Richard, literally died, so they couldn't have him in it.
00:26:24
Speaker
like the showrunner and the writers were forced to think well what would happen to her if her husband died and then they came up with a great storyline but like that was the reason that was good is because there was actual change in the 10 years since we had last seen Emily Gilmore like there was actually something that happened to her and she changed because of it. I hadn't really thought about Rory but now I'm gonna
00:26:50
Speaker
go back and rewatch it and then get frustrated and then get like and then text you guys in the podcast chat about how much I hate this character. I do watch a few Gilmore Girl episodes every fall still.
00:27:04
Speaker
stars hollow so coast coast yeah yeah what if we had seen some an alternative where like rory burns out in a different way or like you know her like actual things that happen to people like that who try really hard like they're not rule breakers which is i think it's where they decide to go is like oh she's gonna start breaking rules but like they like
00:27:27
Speaker
you know, it's more like a self harm thing that happens where you're not taking care of yourself and like your mental health deteriorates and like, yeah, you know, or that question in your early 20s when you if you've like been a big fish in a little pond, like dealing with the fact that you're not so great or not so special when you get out into the real world, like, oh, like you, you know, achieving things isn't as easy as it may be in like a school setting for you.
00:27:53
Speaker
So like talking about that transition, like things that are maybe actually more realistic or like the people who identified with Rory could actually like go down a road, you know, with her, like instead of like these crazy things that a person like Rory would never do. No. Yeah, I think. Yeah, it's interesting to hear you say that we we kind of all were like Rory when we were in high school college and to know that like our futures were so different from now.
Relatable Character Development
00:28:21
Speaker
I know that she got pregnant at 36 and apparently it was sad.
00:28:24
Speaker
And well, like alone, like there's a big mirror to like her situation and Lorelei's situation, basically, because like there's you don't know who the father is. Oh, it's like unknown at the end of the year.
00:28:41
Speaker
At the end of the year, by the end of the year, she's seen every single ex-boyfriend come back. And so it's like now she's pregnant, which we don't know who the father is, but it doesn't matter. Is it Jess and Dean and Logan, all of them? Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:59
Speaker
Good. Yes. Anyway. All right. We'll see. All right. Maro, what's your number three? My number three, I'm doing it. You're going to contest me on this being an actual main character, but he was a main character for a season. OK. Interesting. He I'm going with Riley from the Buffy the Vampire Slayer. He was like her love interest. Listen, I haven't watched that. That's OK. I don't know. She heard that.
00:29:26
Speaker
I don't either, but this is good. We can be done with my number three before she comes back. Just when she listens to it to edit. Yeah. I like that. And he knowingly enters a relationship with a woman that he knows is stronger than him. And he's like, oh, I'll be fine. But then it's an entire season of him
00:29:47
Speaker
like coming to terms with the fact that she's stronger than him and he can't handle it and he like starts taking steroids and super whiny about it. Who is this?
00:29:58
Speaker
Uh, Riley from Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And I don't even... He was a main character for a season. I'm sticking with it. Um, I wasn't gonna say it, but I am. Because I think two of my other ones might be on your guys' list. So I feel like I have to use it. He's just whiny the entire time. I've never seen that show. I can't participate.
00:30:21
Speaker
I haven't seen it, but perfect. Yeah, Mara's like, you have to say whatever I want. No one can argue with me. There's no negative points. This is true. There might be a negative point here for naming someone Riley Yan. That's not even one of the ones that I know, like Angel.
00:30:41
Speaker
Or Spike. You know Angel because he got his own TV show. And Spike is a whole vampire that's been there the whole time. I'm sticking with Riley. Exactly. So Spike might be there. You could maybe argue that Spike is a TV lead on Buffy. I'm saying that Riley was a TV lead for an entire season. Because he was the main focal point for all of season four.
00:31:02
Speaker
He was like the driver of the storyline. He's a season arc. Main character of a season.
00:31:13
Speaker
Anywho, so my number three, I have a- He sounds like a jerk. I will say that. No, he's a total, he's a total a-hole. He's like in the army and he, not saying that all army men are annoying and jerks. I see Logan. Clutter fire. Just Logan. I'm putting Logan in that category. Correct. And a couple other people I'm family friends with, who I've never listened to. I thought you were saying not jerks.
00:31:42
Speaker
No, I was making fun of Logan. My bad. Yeah, fuck Logan. I do want to keep your statement in there. No, I thought we were naming off people in the military that weren't jerks. I thought we were being nice to Logan for a change. My bad. No. Every day in the world chat, I get just slapped. So no, this is my retribution.
00:32:04
Speaker
OK, my number three is Grace from Will and Grace. I watched a lot of this when I was in high school, so my memory of the show is kind of fuzzy. But she just she bugs me. She's like whiny and needy. And I feel like she takes advantage of her friends. And she like it just.
00:32:27
Speaker
I don't even know how to explain it. Have you guys seen Will and Grace? I root for the other characters. I love, I think that they all have like nuance and whatever and they are kind of annoying people.
00:32:42
Speaker
It makes sense, and I feel like they portray Grace to be this strong, independent, awesome woman, but then she throws her friends under the best first chance. She feels like she's always the right one when Will and her get into little arguments and stuff, and she's just annoying. I don't like her. That's fair. I don't really have anything to add. Yeah. Me either. I don't remember her being annoying enough to be frustrated with her, but yeah.
00:33:10
Speaker
I have enjoyed like watching Will and Grace now. I enjoy the show. I just when she I think it's the way that she treats her friends that bothers me. Hmm. I have to be on the lookout for it. Yeah. And maybe that'll be an update in a couple of weeks. I'll watch them and let you know if I think this is bogus or not.
00:33:32
Speaker
Thanks for picking somebody who's in the title. Yeah. And not saying like Karen. I thought this through. Yeah. How am I going to avoid getting made fun of? And then I got made fun of because my honorable mentions, but it's fine. Right out the gate. Right out the gate. That's OK. All right. OK, let's go on to our number twos.
00:33:51
Speaker
Maybe we should just talk about the elephant in the room. Where's Ted Mosby at in your list? Like he's on there. This is why I felt like I had. Should we just make him our joint number two? Yes. Yes. I love. Yes. Let's talk about. Let's get into it. I feel like he could be my number one because he was the first thing I thought about when I think about most annoying TV lead.
00:34:19
Speaker
Ted Mosby. He is the worst. I don't know what they were thinking when they came up with this character of a guy who's like- It's the whole premise of the show though. Yeah, but it just made him good. They had to make him suck.
00:34:39
Speaker
I forget a lot that he's telling the story to his kids. And then when I think about that, I think it's absolutely disgusting that he's like just telling his kids about all of his hookups to like, that's not a story I want to hear from my parents. I don't want to know. And then he's like telling the hookup stories of their mother as well the entire time. But we don't know that, right? Because he, no, no. No.
00:35:04
Speaker
Well, no, but Robin's like the whole reason that he tells the story, I'm pretty sure, correct me if I'm wrong, is that he wants to be with Robin after his wife, the mother of his children passes away. Was it Victoria?
00:35:21
Speaker
No, it should have been Victoria, in my opinion. We meet here in the very last season, like episode five of the last season. Yeah, she's a MacGuffin. They basically made her MacGuffin. Then they made her, they made us care about her for a whole season. Then they killed her off at that. I mean, the management, we could do this as number one most poorly managed TV show. It was so bad.
00:35:45
Speaker
I mean, I think the idea is that he, I'm not sure that it's as intentional as you're implying, Kara. I think like in my memory, it's that he's telling the story and his kids realize like, oh my gosh.
00:36:00
Speaker
like you're in love with aunt robin and it's and like basically the end of the show is them being like dad it's been years we're fine about moms being dead we're totally over it you're clearly over it like we're all fine with mommy dying even though two minutes before we found out she died and they're like you know what you should do go fuck aunt robin yeah it's weird go get her dad and uh yeah it's weird it's but
00:36:29
Speaker
I mean that's not Ted's fault. I mean that was just a complete misread of the showrunners. I think the showrunners started out with that idea of the ending and then like did not accept that their show morphed into something else and they kept this terrible ending that didn't fit with the show anymore.
00:36:50
Speaker
because nobody wanted that. And we had grown to like the I mean, I had grown to like the mother. I was like, yeah, excited about us like finally getting them. I clearly don't remember her. So she's like petite brunette. They meet big guys hotel. OK.
00:37:06
Speaker
She's the, she's like the trumpet player or something. She plays in the band for Robin and Barney's wedding. And also they made me like Robin and Barney. So then when they like. Yeah, I can't believe they broke that up. Robin and Barney. Yeah. Anyway, Ted is this annoying guy who professes to be a nice guy, but he's actually an asshole in the jerk.
00:37:27
Speaker
And he like constantly makes choices that are frustrating and is like pretty disrespectful to women. Yes. And is just like whiny and not fun to watch. But also like I don't appreciate one. I don't necessarily believe in soulmates and that whole thing. And I don't believe that like your whole life should be wrapped around finding like your perfect partner and that kind of stuff. And I just feel like he wastes a lot of time
00:37:54
Speaker
Living his life like when he said like for example like he sits on the roof you know for seventeen hours because he believes that somebody might come to a party instead of going out and partying with his friends and like living his life and enjoying it and maybe meeting somebody organically like he just spent so much effort and time on this like
00:38:13
Speaker
thing that like he's so lucky to have that group of friends that is like so tight knit and close. And he just like kind of doesn't appreciate it as much because he doesn't have his like one perfect person. And it bugs the crap out of me, like appreciate what you have. You know. Go get drunk with Barney and go lick the Liberty Bell, you know. Gross. Yeah, Tim Mosby is a good number two for all of us. I like this.
00:38:43
Speaker
All right. Let's go to our sponsors.
Comedic Sponsor Segment
00:38:51
Speaker
Our number three sponsor this week is Grayson, our sound engineer and producer. Oh, he is listening. He's folding his laundry right now. Slightly distracting, but no, it's like one of those videos where you're just like watching them jump through. It's just like making it easier for me to listen to you too.
00:39:10
Speaker
She's talking about TikTok, Kara. You want to understand? But basically, there's like there's this trend on TikTok where like there's a split screen. Yeah. And up top is like like listening to a podcast or someone, someone talking about. Oh, yeah. And then the other person is like, yeah. Or usually a video game. Yeah. And it's for people, I guess, with ADHD and they watch it.
00:39:35
Speaker
A lot of mine are like when they do the split screen, it's they're making something. Yeah. Art of that, too. Yeah. Yeah. Does anyone have a number to sponsor the makers of Brooklyn Nine-Nine? You made great characters. You made great arcs. You did it. You didn't do as dirty. You did a great job. Why would they sponsor top three most annoying TV leads then? Because it puts them in a good light. Yeah. Look at what we didn't do.
00:40:02
Speaker
You didn't fuck it up. Congratulations. OK, well, the number one sponsor is Network Execs, who went to lunch with their buddies. And they guys were like, oh, dude, that would be so funny. And then they made a TV show out of it and forced us all to watch it. Probably at a strip club. I mean, that buffet at the strip club. Let's go. They're just there for the buffet. Yeah, me too. They're just there for the buffet. I can come up with a new number two.
00:40:31
Speaker
I didn't understand. I didn't understand the assignment. Oh, I see. Yeah, it's like what what the sponsors are like. Things that create the situation.
00:40:43
Speaker
Oh, OK. OK. But that's fine. That's fine. We'll go with it. You've just dragged Brooklyn Nine Learning. This is Carol learning how to do sponsors on episode like 10. I don't think I quite understand yet. So I don't know if I'm ready for those powers. You just dragged Brooklyn Nine Nine through the mud. OK. Let's go back.
Bojack Horseman Discussion
00:41:09
Speaker
My number one.
00:41:12
Speaker
most annoying TV lead is Bojack Horseman. Oh, I hate going last because I'm like, are you going to take my number one? I have no idea. I think Mara is going to take my number one. I've never seen Bojack Horseman. I know it's a horse. Well, you had the opportunity, both of you had the opportunity to go first and then Cara gamed the system. So yeah, I like to make you uncomfortable. It's my favorite activity to make you angry. See this episode. Nice.
00:41:42
Speaker
You caught me off my game, caught me rolling out the bed to come to this podcast. Yeah, so BoJack Horseman, I hate him with every fiber of my being. I have not finished the show because I hate it so much. I stopped after season four. But he, I know the point is that he's a fuck up, but again, like,
00:42:04
Speaker
I don't find it entertaining I don't find it fun I find him very annoying and I don't know why I should care about him because he has a lot of people around him that I do care about like all the side characters I'm very invested in and I like but Bojack Horseman himself I'm like hey I actually think the show would be good if you weren't on it like I don't find you.
00:42:24
Speaker
Like, I'm just waiting for him to die. Like, I can't wait for him to die. Like, I'm like, when is he going to this terrible thing to say? But it is a cartoon. What is he going to overdose? So when is he going to leave this show? Like, I just I I hate his storyline with his sister so far that I've seen. I hate that he, you know, he's the reason basically that
00:42:51
Speaker
the Kristen Schall character. I can't remember the girl's name. You know the one who plays one of his kids on the sitcom? No, neither one of us have seen this. Yeah, you're on your own. I thought both of you have seen BoJack Horseman. We literally said we haven't seen it. What? Yeah. We started this out with we haven't seen that. At the top. Oh, I didn't hear it. Oh, my God. That's crazy. That's why we were both giggling. In case you didn't notice, we both went to our phone to Google the show.
00:43:16
Speaker
Yeah. Mara, I thought that you had seen it for sure. It's like been it keeps popping up as one of those things. And I'm like, I can't tell if I would like it or not. It's difficult. I mean, I don't know. I would have watched it had I not, you know, been living with Matt. But like it is.
00:43:31
Speaker
I mean, it was like there were several times where I like wanted I would like shut off the TV and be like, I'm not watching that again. And then a couple weeks later, I'd be like, OK, we can go. Because the thing is, is that it's got a really great like character called Princess Carolyn in it, which is his ex ex girlfriend agent. And it's just like another archer.
00:43:53
Speaker
Yeah, but I would say Bojack is way more unforgivable than Archer. Like Archer's kind of entertaining. Yeah. Bojack is like truly like the things he does like he's responsible for the death of someone. He tries to like hook up with an underage girl like he is.
00:44:17
Speaker
terrible. Like he is. Can I ask, is this a character you hate or annoying because the topic is annoying? I mean, I find his existence annoying on the show. Yeah. Like I don't want him to be there. Like I think someone can be so annoying. You hate them.
00:44:38
Speaker
The two tie together and they go hand in hand and I'm like, did I hate you before you found you annoying? But usually the annoyance breeds hate like he is so annoying to watch that I like I don't find his storyline funny. I don't like them. Like unless he's like interacting with one of the characters that are good. Like I'm not because he just messes everything up. Like he messes up the lives of all of his friends around him where like he can't be there for them.
00:45:07
Speaker
Like he literally cannot show up. And they're like, I find it annoying that like they that whoever made this TV show thought that was like fun to watch or like something I wanted to watch. Why does not like it? I mean, it's an extremely the reason why I watched so much of it is it's an extremely clever show and it is funny. And like there are
00:45:31
Speaker
You know, for the ensemble around him, there's four really good characters. And I do think like Princess Carolyn is like a fantastic and her storyline is really fun to watch and is interesting. And like, even though people make choices, like it can be really heartbreaking and is a very emotional show. Like I've cried a lot during it. It's like very deep at times. That's wild. But then it's also very funny, like.
00:45:58
Speaker
At one point, he steals the D off of the Hollywood sign. And then for the rest of the show, the town is called Hollywoo. Like, they just accept it. And they're like, OK, it's no longer because someone stole the D. We're now Hollywoo. And so, like, there's jokes like that. Like, it's a very clever, funny show and probably worth a watch. But only if you can stomach all the horrible things you're made to watch that Bojack Horseman does. Oh, it's like reading a dark fantasy romance.
00:46:28
Speaker
What? It's not, but thanks for trying to contribute. You're welcome. Great number one. Proud of you. It doesn't sound like the positive would out win the negatives of that show, so I will not be watching it.
00:46:50
Speaker
I think like he, what Matt and I have done is he was like, you know what? Like a lot of people who watch this, you got a year in between to like kind of miss the show, right? Like a season would come out and then you have to wait a year. And so like,
00:47:04
Speaker
maybe with time you kind of forget the pain of the show and then you're willing to like watch it again. And so after season four kind of ends on a high note as much as the show could out of all of them, like it's kind of a happy ending. So like we stopped there because it was like, well, we could just end here and call it good. But so like, yeah, I think we stopped and it's been like,
00:47:31
Speaker
a year, year and a half now. And like, now I'm kind of like, I, the reason I want to keep going and maybe want to finish is because I would like to know what happens to Princess Carolyn, basically, and some of the other characters, but, and I know,
00:47:46
Speaker
I don't know a lot, but I know that it would be rewarding on that end. But I know that there's like I've heard that there's one other big like bad thing that Bojack Horseman does. That's probably the worst thing he does that's coming up. And like, I don't know if I'll be able like I literally like throw things when I watch it. I get so upset. Oh, my God. So but I also hear it's got one of the greatest TV show endings ever. So it's hard. Like apparently the finale is really good.
00:48:13
Speaker
And so I don't know. I struggle. I think you have to watch it because of your career choice. I think we are not obligated because it's not something that's quoted the best finale. I feel like you need to research purposes. I kind of feel like though I need somebody to watch it so we can commiserate together because it is.
00:48:38
Speaker
It sounds like you have Matt. So many people who watch it love it. No, he doesn't. He doesn't want to watch it. He likes it. There's got to be a Reddit out there for you. I'm already trying to push Mara into that spot. And Mara's already trying to push you to the Internet. There's somebody. I'm sure Grayson would watch it. Grayson hasn't watched it. I think he's watched. I don't know. Hang on.
00:49:07
Speaker
I've watched a little bit of it. I've tried to convince Kara to watch it in the past, but I thought better of it because I know her. And so we haven't. I mean, if you like if you think the office is cringy or it's like something like how the office treats Phyllis, like I remember how much that was. Yeah, I cry. Yeah, like.
00:49:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's Bojack's going to be painful. Yeah, I'm not going to be like when Kevin drops the chili or when they make fun of Phyllis, I cry. So I can't like I can't imagine something where somebody is trying to sleep with an underage person and I'd be cool with that. That sounds awesome. I don't think they want you to be cool with it. It's just to show how they want to watch. I don't want it to be an existence like we're out here trying to get 12 year olds to marry in Missouri. I'm not trying to watch it on TV, too, you know.
00:49:54
Speaker
Thank you. That's exactly how I feel about the boys. How many seasons are there? Thank you. I think either six or seven. That's that's a lot. I would have to start from the beginning and catch up to commiserate with you over the last season. So I don't know. I'll think about it. Well, she's a season four. So you just need to catch up to season four. Yeah. Yeah. Oh.
00:50:22
Speaker
Okay. There we go. That I can do. Oh. That I can do. There you go. Found your person. His voice always annoys me though, because he's like, the voice actor is like a discount, H. John Benjamin. Are you talking about Will Arnett for Bojack? Bojack is Will Arnett.
00:50:41
Speaker
Yes! That's really funny. Wow. Grayson's like favorite person ever. It has been a long time since I've watched BoJack apparently. We are not cutting this because that is hilarious. I'm cutting it. Grayson loves Will Arnett so that's hilarious. I don't want Will to ever hear this.
00:51:05
Speaker
OK. What's your number one? Oh, it's my turn. Yeah.
Ross Geller: Most Annoying?
00:51:09
Speaker
OK. My number one is Ross Geller from Friends. No, that's my number one. Yeah. I knew you guys were going to both do that. I knew that too. All right, Mara. We're doing a joint number one. That's fine. OK. OK. And here's what I'll say. I'll just say real quick about.
00:51:23
Speaker
TV leads actually would put Ross Geller as a TV lead and not an ensemble member. Yeah, that's why he's one of the friends. Well, you could really put him. I mean, that of all the ensemble shows, you could argue that Friends is one of the most even ensemble shows. Yeah. But the fact that they intended for Ross to be a lead
00:51:47
Speaker
Did they? They intended, yeah, because originally they were, you know, when things were heating up, they like wanted Rachel and Ross to be the center of the emotional core and center of friends. And then, you know, once they started all getting a million, like each episode, that was because like originally when they were resigning their contracts,
00:52:08
Speaker
you know, Jen Aniston and David Schwimmer were going to get paid more because the network saw them as like the leads. Interesting. And they like stuck with their co-workers and were like, no, we're all like, we're all the leads. I'm glad. That would have been so true. And so it was like a negotiation where like they got paid, I think they got paid less. And then like, they all got paid the same amount since they were like even.
00:52:36
Speaker
So you could argue you could argue that they're not that he's not a TV lead because of like the ensemble nature, but like clearly they wanted him to be.
00:52:46
Speaker
Yeah, and then the Big Bang tried to do that same move. And I'm like, first of all, the ensemble in Big Bang is not nearly as even like in airtime and like storylines like and don't try to be friends. No, you're not friends. Not as good. Anyway, no. So, yeah, tell me the two of you about Ross Giller. A man child who.
00:53:08
Speaker
is super privileged but complains about so much. Yeah. And like this just like mainly the storyline with his ex-wife who becomes a lesbian and then divorces him. But I feel like he's really lucky in the fact that his ex-wife still is willing to like work with him and like they have a kid together. And so and I feel like she tries to make it
00:53:34
Speaker
like as easy on him as possible, but he's like, look at, oh, woe is me for a lot of everything.
00:53:42
Speaker
I think I'm going to go with misogyny as one of my main reasons that he's annoying because he like there's an episode where his son Ben likes a Barbie and he spends the entire fucking episode trying to convince him that GI Joe is better. And it's like just like let him like a Barbie. And he like doesn't accept that Rachel wants to be like a working like can't understand why her career is important to her or like goes out there and like quote unquote marks his territory. I keep saying quote unquote today.
00:54:07
Speaker
He goes out and marks his territory like by sending her flowers and stuff because he's like super jealous of this other male person in his life or her life. Like he's just a shitty he's just like a shitty person and he is annoying and he doesn't. I just yeah. Yeah. He's like he's like and the fact that they all like the idea is like I remember there's literally an episode where
00:54:36
Speaker
he goes to something at Phoebe's apartments. And she has to like vouch for him by the end of the episode. And she's like, he's a really nice guy. He really cares about people. And I'm like, where? Show me the proof. When did he see that? He's constantly vouching for this guy to strangers. He didn't tell Rachel that they got married. He told her that they got divorced and then never annulled it because he didn't want to be that guy. That's a fucking shitty person. Yeah. Yeah. Or he like, you know, well,
00:55:04
Speaker
Not sure if he cheated on her because they were on a break. He cheated. So that's with somebody else and then didn't tell her and tried to leave it under the rug. And it's like, come on, man.
00:55:15
Speaker
You at least don't do it. And then never like apologize. And then the way he treats her after is like such a dick. Yeah. Like it's cool. It's cool to say like, I didn't do anything wrong. That said, I'm also sorry that it hurt you. That's not a hard thing to say. I just don't. And I don't like that Rachel gives up going to Paris for her dream job to be with. Seriously. Fuck that. I forgot about that. That was the end of the season. End of the show. Had to tie it all up with nice little bows. That's all that was.
00:55:45
Speaker
You can move to Paris with me. Yeah. Except Ben. That was the whole reason. Kids do great when you disrupt their life. Also, the sandwich thing. God, he's just the worst. Well, the sandwich thing's funny. It's funny, but also like. I mean, it's funny because he's going through a breakdown and he like everything sucks. Yeah. You know, he's screaming in someone's face.
00:56:11
Speaker
producer note, I looked for the sound bite of the sandwich scene without the laugh track behind it. And it definitely makes, it makes Roth seem like a fucking psychopath. I wanted to play it so badly, but I couldn't find it, so. What is the sandwich scene? My sandwich? Basically, the sandwich, go ahead.
00:56:34
Speaker
No, you go. You go. You go. He's I think it's after his divorce with Emily, right? Yeah. And he's moved into naked, ugly guys, ugly, ugly, naked guys apartment. And he.
00:56:50
Speaker
he's just having a really bad time and he goes to his job and he's got it's after Thanksgiving and he's got this like leftovers Thanksgiving sandwich that Monica made him that he always looks forward to and like when he goes to eat at his job someone like has taken it before he sees someone eating it and he freaks out at them about it and they're like
00:57:15
Speaker
And his boss is like, okay, we're going to put you on like, you need to take a little break. Like we'll discuss like your job after. And then he's in his apartment and the boss comes to like talk about his job and it's like, okay, I think you can come back. Like, and Ross is trying to convince him. Yeah, I'm just going through a hard time, but don't worry. I'm like totally okay. Like everything's fine.
00:57:40
Speaker
And then he glances out the window and that's when he discovers that Monica and Chandler are hooking up for the first time. He didn't know that. So then he also freaks out and has anger issues about that right in front of his boss. And so that's when he gets put on suspension or leave or something for a while.
00:58:00
Speaker
I find that episode funny and not annoying because I think it's me. I don't think you should. But I could see how without the. He like screams at his boss, though, like you shouldn't scream in someone's face. That's just no. I mean, yeah, he took your sandwich. But I can understand. I can understand why it's funny. I can understand he reached his breaking point. It's like his like camel, you know, straw in the camel's back type situation. But I just think it's going. That's fair.
00:58:26
Speaker
Yeah, I could see how with a laugh track. She's this man yelling. Got it. Nice. I like this group work together today. I'll say one last honorable mention, Jeff from community. I never understood the appeal of Jeff from community. Yeah, there is no appeal. It's a fishbowl effect.
00:58:48
Speaker
What? Like, I don't understand why he needed to be like the main guy and what his appeal was of him, like not caring, but like learning to care. But like I just I found him so insufferable. Yeah. The fishbowl effect is like akin to the camp effect where they're only cute because they're there. Oh. Oh, so you're saying you thought Jeff was cute. No, I'm saying like for people that like you were talking about how I don't understand why people saw the appeal of him.
00:59:19
Speaker
We're just like... He's the only one. Yeah. Well, you mean the only one? He's like just there.
00:59:27
Speaker
You know how you have, I'm assuming you're talking about camp goggles. So the idea is that like when you're at summer camp, you're like 20 or whatever and you have a group of like 20 staff members and somebody that you normally wouldn't find attractive in the quote unquote real world would be extremely attractive and you would like be with them for the summer because you have camp goggles because they're the only people you see for three months.
00:59:51
Speaker
And she said, I don't think like, for example, in that show, I don't think he's good compared to the other people in the show. I feel like the other characters are better. Yeah. Like, no, he's not the main appeal of community for me. It's definitely not. I feel like he's the drag of community. I'm like, oh, my God. Chevy Chase is a bit a little bit bigger. But he's down there with him. Yeah. Chevy Chase.
01:00:20
Speaker
Chevy Chase and then Jeff. And I'm like, OK. But you don't want to watch either of you. All right. Well, nice. This is my time, everything.
Episode Wrap-Up
01:00:33
Speaker
If you have any comments, concerns or questions, you can email us at my top everything podcast at Gmail dot com. And yeah, I'm Kara, your host. And I'm Marian.
01:00:46
Speaker
Got to keep it in the same order. There were no points. There were no points given or taken. So we are all winners today. No. Congratulations. What? That's what happens when I'm the host. It's a teamwork game. Look at the teamwork. Thank you. Look at, look at, look at, look at, look at teamwork. Team Acil. Team Acil from Arrested. Was that an Arrested development? I did it.
01:01:19
Speaker
Wow Okay, we'll see you next week. Thank you
01:01:34
Speaker
Yeah, this is nice. All right, we're gonna go eat lunch and then we're gonna go see What are we seeing? Is this a play or a movie?