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It's Weird That Twisters Is So Good | The Rewind Podcast
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This week on The Rewind, Darren, Jack and Frost discuss Twisters, movie stars and Darren got an early look at Deadpool and Wolverine.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction and Hosts
00:00:00
Speaker
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00:00:35
Speaker
Hi, everybody. Welcome to the rewind podcast. My name is Jack Packard and I am here with Darrin Mooney. Hey, how are things? And of course, the ever delightful, ah ah some call him a library of movie stars and their abs. I'm here with Frost. Should that not have been Darrin?
00:01:01
Speaker
I'll take a view of it. I think you are absolutely fabulous for us. I'm more like a brochure of celebrities in the rooms.
Glenn Powell: Appeal and Archetypes
00:01:08
Speaker
You were the one that was very, very excited to talk about movie stars in general, which I think is a, you know, like that's going to be a very interesting conversation as we talk today about Twisters and the absurdly handsome Glenn Powell. What a, what a, what a handsome man. I didn't, you know, maybe that's just me. Maybe that's just wishing that was me. That hair was mine, but oh boy. What a, what a man. Yeah. Movie star qualities to your Jack. It's fine. Like I genuinely think, and this, this is going to be the shallowest thing. And then the rest of the podcast will be up and praise, right? His eyes are a little too close together. a little sunnken It's like I went into or, or, or Baldur's gate three, right? Everything's default. Great chiseled shore. And then I just took the eyesight and went a little and that's that.
00:01:56
Speaker
And that sets up for the rest of it because I go, I love him more in Twisters, even though he does come off as a bit of a prick, within context, he's the good guy. I've been here, I'm from here. I never left. This is for the people, you know? And i I don't know this sort of golden retriever who's not really afraid to growl at you a little bit. I like that a lot more because yesterday I saw it's in Top Gun Maverick, right? By comparison, he is a bit more of a disarrogant jerk the whole time. i And I think like, Kilmer and even Tom Cruise play that a bit better in the first one, but I'm loving this angle of like just art of gold, but he will, he will like maybe squeeze your hand a little tight during the handshake. So you know your place.
00:02:37
Speaker
um That's the thing about Powell, is that like Powell has this this energy that is very different from what we conceive of modern movie stars having, where a lot of our movie stars are like soft boys, quote unquote. Think of like the Timothée Chalametes, the Lucas Hedges, the A24 indie boys, who are very delicate, they've got very soft features. Even somebody like Zac Efron, who like can bulk up to an emotionally crippled mini Hulk in the Iron Claw, Still seems like he's a, still seems like he's a bundle of raw nerves who just wants a hug. I think yeah how is interesting to Frost point, because he, he feels like a throwback to a particularly kind of eighties kind of movie star. Again, you mentioned the eyes being a little bit too close together. They're also very narrow and almost reptilian in some ways. And this is not an insult to be clear. It's that vibe that you have with, with actors. You mentioned Val Kilmer, you mentioned Tom Cruise, but a lot of these eighties stars who have this kind of ruthless quality to them.
00:03:27
Speaker
where they are just a little bit edgier, a little bit darker, a little bit more unseemly. At one extreme, you obviously have Michael Douglas, who you is like the walking embodiment of cocaine. If cocaine had a face, it would be Michael Douglas. And I love Michael Douglas and I'm not insinuating anything about Michael Douglas. But ah you also, you have this sense of like characters who are actors, who are jerks. And you mentioned Powell and his performance obviously in Maverick, which I think is very good as Hangman, which plays off that energy. But even if you look at say his, his work in general, even if you go back to his smaller roles where he's like, he has a small role in the dark knight rises as stock trader. Number two, that is just immediately he's an extremely handsome man who is a bit of an asshole.
00:04:05
Speaker
And that kind of carries through where you go to everybody wants some is breakout with Richard Linklater, where he is one of the jocks. He's not a nerd. He's not a sensitive type. He's not sitting on the porch reading poetry, like a lot of modern male movie stars would be. He's hitting a baseball and saying crude things and pretending to be more successful than he actually is. But you jump forward to even his rom coms, like set it up with Zoey Deutsch on Netflix, which is just a phenomenal rom com or anyone but you, which I didn't like that much, but which was a massive breakout in both of those movies. He's playing the jerk. He is a bit of a jerk. Now, as you said, he is eventually revealed like he is in Twisters to be a jerk with a heart of gold. He has this kind of like kernel of humanity nestled within him. But in these movies, when he's introduced, there's always that spark of conflict that always that sense of, is he arrogant or is he good? Like this, this guy has, this guy has an inflated opinion of himself.
00:04:56
Speaker
Is he actually aware of his own abilities or is he a doofus? And I think the thing about Powell is he can play that very well, where he does seem arrogant and self-centered, but eventually reveals himself, as you said, to be the guy with the heart of gold. The I'm from here, not to jump too far into spoiling Twisters, but even the way he's introduced as like the thrill chasing YouTuber, Tornado Wrangler, who arrives blaring country music and tipping his cowboy hat. He's selling merchandise with his own face on it, and that the reveal of the movie as it goes on is, actually, this guy is a sensitive soul. He has a degree in meteorology. He's like studied weather systems. He donates his earnings to charity. In his spare time, he looks for lost puppies.
00:05:41
Speaker
ah Like it's, there is a real sense, and I think, I think that's key to Powell working as a movie star in a way that I don't think many of his contemporaries have is that there's an edge to him, but there's also like a fundamental decency when you just scratched the surface of it. I like, sorry I like that, that you, you imply by the way, that Twisters is complicated enough to spoil in any regards because you know, like, by the way, if, if you've seen a movie before, you know how Twisters is good.
00:06:10
Speaker
Shock. It's actually a hurricane. um The big twist in twist. its Yeah, absolutely. To that set up, though, yeah I don't know if you picked up on this or not. Might not be like I live in Oklahoma where it where it was all shot and where it's all happening. He said a bunch of YouTube breaks from Arkansas. Like we're we kind of don't like each other. Right. other, other state. If someone's driving on the road recklessly, he's like, what are you from Texas, Arkansas? Like what are you doing here? So even though he's sure like the New York elites coming down back to the Midwest. Yeah. City girl. yeah He himself is also not immediately likable. If you are from Oklahoma, where he says, you know, where you're from city girl, his first response should have been not with that accent.
00:06:59
Speaker
Cause she does not sound like she's from New York. Anyway, whatsoever. part is She's a British actor as well. She's a British actor, putting on an Oklahoma accent and his first response is you're obviously a New Yorker. ah you immediately up you know ah But I actually do like culturally speaking, the way they've set him up to be a bit of a prick. It is so much conflict. Whereas Arkansas, Oklahoma, but then also the idea of Southern Midwestern pride, he, he comes off as a bit of like older, like Metro sexual, very, you just ah like playing cowboy. Right? So like, yeah even from the start, there's so many angles to dislike this guy. And then, as you said, he's saving puppies on his free time. What am I supposed to do? He's respecting boundaries. Come on. There's a moment where she comes downstairs and finds him reading her postdoctoral research with intense scrutiny. And he's like, no, I have, I have the scientific formula to prove this. as he Yeah, that's really, as he looks at the cameras and say, not just a pretty face, baby.
00:07:55
Speaker
I'm more than just a hunk of me, stop objectifying me. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to put on just huunk of meat to put on my white t-shirt and walk through the white rain while looking for Lauren. That's right. You thought you thought the the the female lead wearing the white tank top was the homage to Helen Hunt. Oh no, it's me. I'm Helen Hunt. I'm Helen Hunt in this.
00:08:20
Speaker
um love it And so I guess like, you know, you know, obviously, but so by the way, everybody, um this is going to be, this is going to be a little bit Twisters and a little bit, just kind of like movie stars in general talk. We're going to use Twisters as a vehicle to talk about movie stars and you know, where they are now. Movie stars aren't what they once were. They, they have a, you can't just sell a movie with a star's name attached to any more. you can barely sell a movie with an IP attached anymore ah to be quite fair. And you know, that's the, the Marvel machine might've been one of the things that helped kill the movie star. Quote unquote. That's my, that's my very dramatic headline ah because they were more, it was more important to them that the character be the front runner, not necessarily a movie star, except for of course Robert Downey Jr. But even him, he's going back to Iron Man now. And so that's all
Challenges for Modern Movie Stars
00:09:15
Speaker
Oh, sorry. Well, I know this will just jump us onto to something. Glenn Powell as a movie star, where do you think his trajectory is going from here? No. now If you had to sort of put him into a type of movie star, because, you know, there's different ones, who would you say more closely resembles? I think that'd be an easy segue. Because ah to me, he's not hit Cruz yet. You know, he's not. hit um so I see him closer to Kilmer than Cruz, just ever so slightly. um Definitely not Jack Nicholson, as I was getting at that that like unhinged energy. Oh, God, I almost see him like he kind of he's doing what the Rock should have done, right?
00:09:58
Speaker
ah I think he's following very similar trajectory as The Rock, but in actually like better, better roles, more suited for him, ah better alignment of costars. sure but It's think's almost like he is making his own path, but it is going through where The Rock kind of dropped off. I think the thing with the rock though is the rock was very clearly following the Stallone Schwarzenegger playbook, where it was like, you are this muscle bound guy. So what you do immediately is you a find yourself, all tour directors to attach yourself to like s Schwarzenegger did with Cameron, like Schwarzenegger works with Cameron and he has this Glenn Powell is the name of the actor Eric. Sorry. Um, but you have like, you have a Schwarzenegger attached himself to like Cameron. He works with Reitman. He works with directors who have very strong styles. He does mature and like the great story about predator is like,
00:10:44
Speaker
Schwarzenegger is the only person in the world who watches Cheernan's McCheernan's first movie, which is nomads in which and we're talking about accents. Pierce Brosnan does a French accent and it is one of the most incredible things I have ever heard. Not in a good way. Um, but, but like right nobody watched that movie and said that guy is going to be one of the most important action directors in the next 10 years, except for Arnold Schwarzenegger, who's like, he should make a movie where I go into the jungle and kill an alien. And you end up with predator, but the thing with Schwarzenegger, Schwarzenegger then also figures out like, okay, I've done or rated movies. So I've attracted a large, the male audience adolescent getting older. I need to branch out. I need to attract a family audience. So I will make something like twins that will attract like a broader demographic. Women will go and see twins. For example, couples on date nights will go and see twins that wouldn't go and see, you know, like red heat or Conan or whatever it was. And then after a little while, he's like, you know what? Those couples who went and some fantastic work from Eric, he's just off the, off the chain here. it's But like good that fast, too fast. But then Schwarzenegger is like, OK, those couples who went to see me as a movie star in those films, they're now having kids. I need to make movies that will appeal to families. So the first thing he does is he starts making softer or rated movies like Terminator 2 Judgment Day, where suddenly he's no longer the villain. He's the hero. But he also has an adorable kid sidekick that allows the kids into an or rated movie. He also does like Last Action Hero, which I think I don't know if that's or PG-13, but that's more clearly skewing towards I want to be a four demographic hit. And then he just does like straight up jingle all the way. Um, and you know, which basically is now, now I am a family star. And that is what the rock was trying to do. And you can look and you can see as the rock goes along, you'd see him doing this where things like his Hercules of Brett Ratner is an attempt to do Conan. Um, he tries to do a southland tails is his attempt to do terminator. Uh, the tooth fairy is his attempt to do a kindergarten cop.
00:12:34
Speaker
And none of those land in any way, shape or form. So The Rock just immediately retreats back to, okay, I will just make one kind of movie with maybe like three different rotating directors. Like one called Sarah is going to be my guy on the phone. And no matter what I do, I will just slot into this. We're talking about things like say skyscraper, even black Adam fits into that template as well. um Like rampage, all these sorts of movies, which are incredibly generic and forgettable. And I think like, yeah, I think like that's the playbook that the rock was following. And I don't think it worked for him. I think if you're looking at like a modern version of that, I think like Dave Batista is doing a much better version of that. Like where Batista is butist says reaching out to even more, you know, on tours, he is really like hammering hard this, this like boutique actor thing while still doing the schlock every once in a while. Is he in my spy too as well? Yes, he is. Yes, he's back baby.
00:13:26
Speaker
even Batista has mortgage payments. But I'm like, just and to be honest, the key is just to give Batista tiny glasses. You can tell how good a movie is going to be is inversely proportional to the size of the glasses that Batista is wearing. That's, that's the rule. Glenn Powell looks to be in my, in my opinion, he is more following kind of the Bruce Willis vibe. where he's doing some rom coms. He's doing some light action. He is like, cause that's what Bruce Willis was back in the day when he started doing like his diehards. He was like, Oh, a little, a little not right, but just right for the part. Am I right girls?
00:14:01
Speaker
um yeah that And the thing about, the thing about Willis though, is that Willis starts out in comedies on TV. He does moonlighting and there's this real soul searching of like, like when he does diehard, everybody's like, there's no way to take Bruce Willis seriously as an action star. And then obviously that becomes the one thing that he does. And he almost kind of gets trapped by it where he has to go and he has to do things like pulp fiction to help kind of break out of that and prove I'm still, I'm an indie, an indie guy. He does like the sixth sense. He does what's breakfast of champions to prove. No, no, no. I'm still credible. Like death becomes her, the Zemeckis movie. Like where he, he's saying now he's playing against type by playing the kind of character he would have played like five years earlier, which is just an incredible transformation. The thing with how, which I find interesting is like.
00:14:45
Speaker
My, my take on the movie star is quite simple. In order to be a movie star, you have to be able to attract audiences to movies that they would not otherwise see. You are not a movie star. If you can't open a movie, if you can't convince audiences to go and see a movie based on your name, largely as a, like as a gesture of trust. So like the fall guy is proof that Ryan Gosling and Emily Blunt, who I love and are great actors are not movie stars. so And like you can see that born out. Yeah. That's sorry. That's Ryan Reynolds, wouldn't it? Far guy? No, no, go let's that's, that's, Ryan Reynolds was in that if movie that came out recently. Yes. Yeah. They all blend together. They do. They all kind of blur. Um, and like the, the John Kaczynski does Spielberg and accidentally makes hook two is basically what if is. Um, but the, the thing with like movie stars is that in order to get there,
00:15:36
Speaker
You need to court your audience in the way that Schwarzenegger did, where you have to yeah have to have a base. have to build This sounds very cynical and political, but you do have to have a base. You have to build it out and expand it. He was also the governor of California. He's good at politics. he's married and he's a He was a Republican governor married to the Kennedy family. That's how good he is, I call it. ah um Until one day the maid bought a child to work who looked a little bit too much like Arnold Schwarzenegger, but we don't have time to get into that. Yeah. but I cannot. I'm not sure I can get away with saying more in a recorded medium, but you you with, with movie stars, though, like to, to pick the example, like Cruz, right?
00:16:17
Speaker
You look at Cruz as a movie star and you immediately think like Top Gun, you think maybe Days of Thunder, you think Mission Impossible, right? And those are good examples, right? Because those are big movie star movies. They're blockbuster hits. But in order to become though that kind of breakout star, Cruz has to make smaller movies that win over different demographics. So he has to make, for example, Cocktail. He has to make Risky Business. He has to make Rain Man. He has to make Born on the Fourth of July. He has to make God damn it he has to make far and away in order to like win over audiences and to prove that he's an actor that when you see him in a project you know that the project is going to be to a certain extent have a certain patina of quality around it. sure It means that you trust him and when he does something you don't think well
00:17:05
Speaker
I don't normally like those kinds of movies or that's not really my genre or I'm not really familiar with the brand or the director is not a proven track record to me. You go, Cruz's name is above the title. I'm going to take a gamble on this. And law of averages says it's going to be at least as entertaining as say the firm. Right. And the problem I think in building movie stars today is simply that like you just try to make top gun and mission impossible. You don't make rain man anymore. You don't make board on the 4th of July. You don't make cocktail. You don't make risky business. You don't make legend even anymore. Um, and so it's very hard to like build out a star. Like the thing about Powell is Powell has been around for over a decade now. I think he's pushing 36, 37, like thirty five he is
00:17:50
Speaker
35. He's on the edge of like what a movie star can be to land, right? yeah You need movie stars who are young and vital. Powell is about my age, and at Powell obviously doesn't look about my age to his credit. I look like I'm at least two to Glenn Powell's old. But like you need You need younger and more vital stars. And I think the thing with Powell is it shouldn't have taken him this long to get to where he is now. He shouldn't have had to take the route of going through the Netflix movies to get here. He shouldn't have had to wait for people to discover, set it up. He shouldn't have had to wait for people to discover, you know, everybody wants some. He shouldn't have had to wait to be the the fourth lead in Top Gun Maverick before somebody took a chance and rolled a dice and was like, you're the lead of Twisters. I think that's where the industry's broken. Sorry. That was my long ramble. I apologize. this industry
00:18:38
Speaker
and you left out s Spy Kids 3D when he first showed up with his little like black and silver suit and he's been a still snot-nosed brat.
Tom Cruise's Mentorship and Industry Influence
00:18:48
Speaker
That's why he's got the DiCaprio thing for me that the first time I see them, if they're insufferable, essentially children, I like I can't unsee that. DiCaprio to me now is still Jack crying on the ship. Glenn Powell to me now when he's being a little snooty, I still see him. It's like his 3D. So that's why I'm like, um it's nice to see you like just being i guess nice. and Not everyone has to be nice, but I can't see you being mean. Because you're just juvenile when you do with your little eyes.
00:19:14
Speaker
because you're just a snot-nosed kid from Spy Kids 3D. And so, well, and let's, ah let's oh, go ahead, Prost. No, I was saying, yeah, but to that thing, even as as Darren was saying, auteur directors, that like you know Robert Rodriguez is definitely known as one of the more old school ones. He's following you know with alongside Antonio Banderas, if anything, you know might even end up might even just ends up under some auteur director's sort of ensemble wing, right? Attaching yourself to like, the people that always show up with Tarantino, the people that always show up with Nolan, surely someone's gonna grab Powell and be like, this one's mine.
00:19:48
Speaker
Well, Cruz is not an auteur, but like Cruz has been like, he is the new incarnation of the spirit of Tom Cruise. Like but there's a sequence where they're there. Cruz goes to the Twisters premiere. And look, to be clear, we know why Cruz loves Twisters. Twisters is a movie that has a third act that includes the lines. And I kid you not a, we have to get everybody into the movie theater. B this theater is not built to withstand what's coming. and C features a sequence in which a tornado rips the screen out of a theater and Glenn Powell literally saves cinema. So that is why Tom Cruise loves this movie, to be clear. But like there's a moment where they're doing the press tour and Cruise has to teach Powell how to hold a popcorn bucket to the camera. They're posing with their popcorn and Cruise is just instinctively. You put the Twister's logo facing the camera and you hold it so it's in shock. And Powell is like, I don't know. What do you do? What's going on here? Cruz is like, if you're going to be a movie star, you need to listen. This is essential. Yeah. Oh yeah. that paid off no and that's The Budweiser drinking always. core as written for You know, like obviously think about Tom Cruise, what you want as, you know, he has been a movie star and, you know, like a champion of the movies as a, not just an industry movies as a concept.
00:21:01
Speaker
for you know as long as he's been a movie star. When he tells you to do something, you just listen and try your damn best, Glenn Powell. You know the six hour movie school thing, right? You guys heard about the six hour movie school, right? I don't know if I have. Okay, so Powell gets an invitation. yeah Powell gets an invitation from Cruz to come and talk about movies. Cruz is going to teach Powell everything that he knows about movies. and Powell you know hops on a jet, he flies over, he's like, obviously Cruz is doing this for like all the guys on Top Gun. like Miles Teller is going to be here, for example. Manny Jacinto is going to be here. We're all going to arrive. It's going to be a good reunion. We're going to be a little talk. We're going to shake hands. Cruz is going to give a little presentation. He arrives.
00:21:41
Speaker
It's a big empty like warehouse, basically. Nobody else is there. Somebody, a staff member, comes along and says, oh, Mr. Powell, you've arrived, and guides him into a theater where he is the only person in the theater. He is shown to a seat in the center of the theater. The person leaves the room, the lights go down, the screen turns on and there is like a 60 foot Tom Cruise. And he delivers a six hour presentation on everything that you think you need to know in order to be a movie star via like IMAX screen to an audience of Glen Powell. It's incredible. Yeah. that That may be a linking factor, Eric. I can't say the name out loud because I'm sure we'll get tagged, but that may be a linking factor.
00:22:24
Speaker
I want to see that. I, what do I need to do yeah to get enrolled in the Tom Cruise movies? What ideology do I need to pretend to hold to get that presentation? Cause I would love that. Two things I want and that's Tom Cruise, his six hour, how to be a movie star presentation. And Christopher Nolan's first film that he put it cans and everyone's like, it's the greatest thing ever, but we don't have a copy. Sorry. Larceny. We're going to Larceny Larceny. We're going to Larceny Larceny. No, but I mean, it it is important. And so like my, my question is extrapolating this data. Let's see if we can do the the unthinkable, which is predictions, right? Like we know, like according to IMDB, Powell is in, ah you know, production and pre-production for a couple movies. He is, I don't want him to be in this movie, but apparently he is attached to the running man remake.
00:23:21
Speaker
Um, wow. but I don't know if that's a smart choice, you know, to, to high profile remakes, but, uh, um, uh, a Monsanto movie, ah Chad powers. I have no idea what that is. And Huntington, which is the only one currently in production cha powers is a TV show where he stars as Chad powers, which seems unlikely to happen if he wants to be a movie star. Right. Oh, it looks like it could be a prestige show. So it co-stars team Sam. It's the story of a disgraced college quarterback named Russ holiday, who disguises himself as Chad powers and walks into a struggling Southern football team to revive his football career. Oh, interesting. That's fine. Let's see here. I'm looking at, it has forecast members in total. I don't know that this is ever happening. The, the one in production is called is called Huntington by the director of Emily, the criminal.
00:24:14
Speaker
Oh, good. um And it's just about ah it's about a young man hatches a murderous plot to inherit his family's wealth. Oh, I'm down. Classic, classic. I mean, now we're getting into the problem that like the the movies that make movie stars don't really exist anymore. Like if Powell wants to star in anything other than a franchise reboot or a big budget summer blockbuster, he basically has to go and make an A24 movie. And I don't know that Powell is a good fit for like long legs here, you know? No, long legs here. I mean, I would be there on opening day to watch your legs here yeah ah because you just put them in the same makeup. They put cage in and you're good to go. yeah Um, that being, that being said, like, because they don't make.
00:25:03
Speaker
They don't make non-IP movies anymore. Like A24 has become its own IP. Neon has become its own intellectual property house. Where does someone like Glenn Powell go to get to that level? Is it back to Netflix? Is it a prestige ah show on Netflix? How do how do you, can you anymore? yeah um Can you get the traction? Yeah. Well, I mean, like you mentioned the MCU, none of the Marvel stars, kind of you mentioned like Robert Downey Jr. And Robert Downey Jr. Who takes a lion's share of like the budgets of these movies. But outside of the MCU, what has he done? He's done the Sherlock franchise with Guy Ritchie, but that's a separate franchise. He's done Doolittle, which bombed the judge, which basically does not exist. ah He was the, he was the the new, again, chef.
00:25:52
Speaker
John Favreau's chef, which is a weird touchstone, I think, for for our discussion with John Favreau. Yeah. He's, he's, he's the guy who's married to, uh, Sofia Vergara, who is John Favreau's ex-wife, but it's okay because John Favreau ends up with Scarlett Johansson. By the way, this movie is written and directed by John Favreau. Yeah. like Living your dream. I kind of like that. Those are John Favreau's dreams where it's like Disney. I gave you the MCU. I directed a billion dollar Lion King movie. Um, and Disney are like, what do you want John? And it's like, Wanna make a movie? I'm like, was that him? And you know he was like, John, yeah put me in the Avengers. I could be in the Avengers. Luigi can join the Avengers, right? Yes. 100%.
00:26:35
Speaker
But like Downey Jr. outside of Marvel hasn't made a great deal of money. um Like Chris Evans has tried and repeatedly failed to launch with movies like The Iceman, for example. But even something like, say, the TV shows, like Chris Evans has done TV shows for Apple TV, which don't exist at all. And even somebody like Hemsworth. Hemsworth of all the Marvel guys, Hemsworth is the one I respect because Hemsworth is the one who's gone and done the, can I do the classic movie star thing of I have opened movies that have grossed almost a billion dollars. I'm a recognizable face. People know my name. Can I use that to get movies made by directors whose work I like, which is the classic cruise thing.
00:27:12
Speaker
Cruise, again, does it in the nineties. He gets Brian De Palma to direct Mission Impossible. John Muir to direct Mission Impossible, too. He basically bankrolls like Stanley Kubrick's final movie, um the weird erotic thriller stuff. And he works with obviously ah Paul Thomas Anderson on Magnolia. he Like in the nineties, Cruise is like, can I use my movie star power to get like these movies by directors I care about made? And Hemsworth is the one guy of the Marvel crowd who has done that. It's like I have the juice of being Thor. can I get like a Michael Mann hacker movie, finance made, released and distributed? And it's like,
00:27:49
Speaker
No, no, you can't, Chris. Eight million dollars in total at the box office. A movie from for a well-reviewed movie from one of the best directors working today. um You have like he does it with Furiosa as well, where like that is a role where you can tell Hemsworth is like just, you know, I want to be taken seriously as an actor. I want to push this boulder uphill. I am probably a large part of why Warners are funding this. um yeah But again, nobody turns out to see it. um And like that's the thing, like these movies you don't make stars anymore. And the problem, the consequence of that is that people don't go and see these good movies because they don't have anyone to guide them. They don't have the stars to follow, you know? Oh, oh, that's so poetic. How sad.
00:28:34
Speaker
a secondfo But you know like because because ah you know and I think it's it's this is a very purposeful consequence of The studios trying to remove that star power they the studios wanted the power right we will be the arbiters of good taste Don't trust the stars trust Marvel. Don't trust the stars. Trust Star Wars. Trust, um ah you know, Disney or whoever is making, we can steer the ship and they all steered it to streaming. And now everyone is desperately, desperately trying to backpedal.
00:29:12
Speaker
And that they are and they aren't in the sense that like the studios, the recent actor strike was largely around the idea that studios could just like scan you and you would own your print likeness in perpetuity forever, which is like the very definition of like, we don't, we like, we like movie stars. We just don't like the people that those movie stars actually are. Imagine if you could have stars, but you didn't have to deal with human beings. That would be, just what if they could just generate profit for you? What if Marlon Brando could be an Avengers six? Sorry. So like imagine did Sean Penn without the felonies. You know, some executive was like, yeah, all right.
00:29:50
Speaker
Exactly, exactly. But I think like part of the part of the the the corporations or the studios, ah you know, very purposely removing that element is now biting them in the ass. You know, Anya Taylor Joy, who I would consider to be a movie star. um ah Theoretically, I don't know. I don't know if she's up there, but like like you talked about with fury with furious or it's like we have two big names, a big name director and a franchise. And we still can't make this thing get off the ground. It's critically praised. Everybody who sees it likes it. No one wants to see it in a movie theater. where They're just going to wait till video on demand. but yeah I mean, that's that's the other thing too, getting people to the movie theaters. So you got one corporate executives, whatever, taking away the movie star power. And then the other thing is like filling seats, right? Because maybe they do make a movie that people go, I can't wait for that to get on streaming. You're not filling seats.
00:30:48
Speaker
in that way. So he's he's pretty smart and attaching himself to the ones that he has so far. Top Gun um twisters as well. I was sad that the movies now that get me to the theater are the ones that go, I need that big screen. I need i bought the 4D seat because like I wanted to see what twisters felt like. it was We'll talk about that later. That was a weird. There's a shitty massage chair is what it was. No, that's what I want to hear about right now. Wait, what's wrong? Did they spray water on you? No, I hope not. If it was, it was like the guy sneezing behind me at the most inopportune time. Twisters had a 4D experience. Yeah, you know, they have a 4D experience. And because I was looking for a ticket, as you said, like, can you hop on? I was like, all right, y'all, let's go fresh. It was either going to be yesterday or 9 a.m. today, which is three hours before this goes, 4D. It's called the D box.
00:31:38
Speaker
And I was like, what is this thing? I've never heard of this thing. I thought it was, uh, this is gonna sound weird. D-Box sounds like something you find in a men's room that you never open. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, the D-Box, and this is gonna sound, like, insensitive, but it's just more to show my ignorance. I thought it was those seats for, like, the heart of hearing. Oh, sure. And I was like, is that what that is? And I was like, no, this is up but like, it shakes you. It does 4D and 1.9. I was like, OK, cool. Get in there. And some massage chair with three settings. It's a weird setup here. It isn't. Yeah. And um it'll tilt you.
00:32:09
Speaker
as things are happening. It'll tilt you and it'll shake those are the two things it does tilts you and shakes you. And if you guys have seen this movie, there's a lot of driving. And sometimes you're going from one truck to the other. So you're like first you're you're tilting and the other one and then the other one comes through and you're like you're another one super jerky hella strangely responsive. But the worst part of it all is It's not, it's definitely not designed for these chairs because you never know who you're supposed to be. Cause sometimes the trucks are going. I was like, all right, cool. Um, I'm in this, I'm in this, but then the drones in the air and I'm like, whoa, hold on. I'm the drone. Now there was a weird moment at the start. I don't know if you guys remember this where they're like, be gentle with Dorothy, right? Yeah. man one legacy character yeah Yeah. He it and then the seat went on my left. watch cheek I was like, what? You're Dorothy.
00:33:00
Speaker
Did that help immerse you into the movie being the bucket full of little balls? It did not. No. um Some scenes are great. Like when you know you're like in the middle of the tornado, right? And nothing's moving and you're just like, Oh, cool. And then ah other times it's like, they're just talking and cars are going by on the highway and the seat just kind of goes bird bird.
00:33:28
Speaker
I would love if anyone out there knows a person who does the programming yeah for the 4d experience, I, that is a, that will be a four hour interview. Cause I want to know exactly what they try to do to accomplish this immersive feeling. Cause that sounds, I love the idea of like, like Denny Velny or like Lee Isaac Chung in this case sitting down in a chair and going, no, my left ass chick needs to feel more, more. See, I don't think it was programmed by humans. I think it was some sort of software. Yeah, I do think it's AI. It would correlate with the fact that at the start of it, 30 minutes of ah trailers and it was either Jesus or AI. You know, the two things I love more in this world is Jesus and AI. And yeah, no, I don't, I don't think that the director at any point went, when he smacks Dorothy, give me a good yeah little cheat.
00:34:25
Speaker
Like that had to be, that had to be a human, a human had to make that decision, right? Of like, we just think a human would override that decision. Like at a certain amount of like volume, this chair is just meant to go. yeah Oh, like they just hook it up to the waveform of the movie. Yeah. I do think so. It's just meant to go for you. um The tilting. I think I don't think you can do this casually. I'll be honest, especially with those trucks, because um if you've ever been in a car, youve you feel the the force right of of the turn and then the speed and all that. It's very different from just your chair just going, have one of these, you know? Yeah.
00:35:08
Speaker
a different experience. All in all, I love the novelty of it. I almost couldn't stop laughing. Like people are dying and I'm just here like, Oh my God, this chair. What was the price difference between like that and a regular theater ticket? I think it was just five more bucks. No, almost it was like $6 and one of these was 10. Okay. I had like the whole theater to myself. It was great. Well, if you go on a Tuesday morning, yeah, go on a Tuesday morning to the D box. Yeah. To the D box in my d box right now.
00:35:41
Speaker
That's like your friend from middle school. Your friend from middle school who thinks that they're very good with the ladies. Yeah, that's right. They call me the D box. No one calls you that, Tony. They will. I do think that would be more suitable to what I think Universal Studios tries to do where they like walk you into the sea because we're about to shake the shit out of you. and, uh, sign this waiver, please. This was just a ah massage chair that I got off Craigslist for 50 bucks provided I picked it up. why It was, it was not that good, but it was also, it was a fun experience. Okay. So June two and 40. And I will say like the, bit the bits that were most interesting, the bits that were most satisfying were like the subtle bits where the chair would lean back as the camera would pan up. So it was like you were peering through a window or like as the camera go over the dunes, you turn slightly left or slightly right. Like that stuff was much more interesting to me than Dave Batista has arrived. Enjoy the smell of gasoline in your nostrils.
00:36:39
Speaker
um
00:36:42
Speaker
yeah ah sora say one advantage of doing is that It wasn't very wet. Yeah, it wasn't very wet. So I didn't get sprayed in the face, which I went to see it's it the Predator, the Shane Black Predator movie um in 4DX because it was the only screening that was on in the time window that I had. And I will say that was a keep your mouth closed screening because you were just constantly being sprayed with whatever. Like it was like, I don't think this is sanitized. I don't know that this is like, I don't trust the cinema that I'm in. Not to like. to be spread to be putting water in my RFI. Absolutely. Yeah, and I didn't get one of those small ones. Living grand for and Avatar. You can actually like feel James Cameron taking the money out of your wallet as you're watching it. As a concept, we've got a long way to go. I definitely recommend it for someone. Maybe choose, I don't know, a better movie when they go to the next Fast and Furious perhaps. so
00:37:40
Speaker
in ah our producer, Eric has brought up a potential ah movie star initiative that I actually, if we're going to use Darren, I really like your definition of movie star is someone who is able to get you to watch something that you wouldn't normally watch. And so Eric is, is putting out there, Margot Robbie. I think she's certainly in conversation. And the thing about Robbie, which is interesting is she's moving more towards producing, which is very interesting. We're like, she's obviously she stars in Barbie, which is the biggest movie of last year. And that's the thing. Like people are like, Gosling was in Barbie. So surely he's a movie star. And it's like, no, he was the second lead. He is a supporting actor. It was Margot Robbie all over the press. It was Margot Robbie and all the photo shoots.
00:38:21
Speaker
the posters with Gosling were like, literally he's just Ken. The joke was how inessentially he was to it. Whereas I think, do you think Robbie is probably a contender? Although again, you don't really have that pool of like material that you can do. And the thing with Robbie, which I find really interesting is to get back to like one of the rights of the movie star. One of the rights of the movie star is that you put them in a movie with an older movie star and they hold their own. Um, like Frost mentioned Jack Nicholson, like with Tom Cruise, you put Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson together in a few good men. And if Cruz can hold his own in those scenes, he's a movie star. That sort of thing. You put Brad Pitt in seven with Morgan Freeman. And if Brad Pitt can hold his own in those scenes, he's a movie star. And Robbie kind of has that with Will Smith in focus and arguably the suicide squad. One of the strangest duologies two movie stars have ever made together. together, where they click, like they're working at Warner brothers. They clearly enjoy each other's company. They make focus. And then they're like, you know what we're going to do? David Ayers, Suicide Squad. That sounds like a fun time for everybody involved. Only the second most insane movie related decision Will Smith has made in the past decade. But yeah, it is. um i I think Robbie is a contender. Again, I do think we run into the problem of
00:39:31
Speaker
Do they, do they make the fully diverse array of films that would support a movie star? I think Robbie maybe has an advantage in that, like she has a built in, like strong female audience. So she doesn't need say a rom-com in the same way that Powell might need a rom-com, you know, cause she's a very, you know, female coded movie star. Barbie's a very female coded movie. She has Harley Quinn in the back pocket already. So she has those two demographics. Barbie is kind of a kid's movie. I guess, you know, probably as close as we're going to get. yeah i i think there's there's you know Unfortunately, the things that would have made her stand out in the movie star realm were also its corrupted data, right because it's data that happened you know ah during or right post-pandemic, where you have many movies that were coming out that were starring her that did not perform well.
00:40:20
Speaker
But was that her fault? Was that just global audiences fault? Like data is corrupted everywhere, but the suicide squad didn't perform very well. Babylon was a big old bomb. Yeah. And, um, uh, which literally sent Damien Chazelle to movie jail. By the way, I love that Damien Chazelle followed Babylon by being, no, my next movie is about jail. I mean, I'm technically in movie jail. This counts. This counts as movie jail. This counts as movie jail. It's a movie and there's jail. Yes. And of course, uh, the, the fantabulous, the birds of pride, the title that's too long, right? Where it's just like, that's a patient one. Harley Quinn's L right. That's right. That's right. The birds of prey movie, which, you know, like fine movies, all, I didn't see Babylon. But you know like Harley Quinn the Suicide Squad like all fine movies But we're in this wibbly wobbly period where I think those would have been the things Like if if her Harley Quinn movie could have brought people out as compared to her Suicide Squad movie that would have cemented her as the movie star Barbie is still wrapped up in this property. We also have a prestige director So it's it's all she's in the way in my opinion. She would be in the gray zone if I'm doing the math correctly and Yeah, I would agree with that. I do think the other thing about Barbie is that like that's she produced it as well. That's why I'm kind of more interested in Robbie as a producer. I think like as going forward, I think Robbie is aware of the fact that there are no more movie stars and she's like my smart bet. No, my smart bet is to like put my name behind movies like salt burn. Right. Obviously now we think of salt burn as the movie where Barry Kogan dances to murder on the dance floor having after just committed a bunch of murders because it's subtle like that. You see, that's that's the thematic point the movie is trying to make. Yeah.
00:42:02
Speaker
But like that is produced by Robbie. That one of the big selling points before it came out was that it was produced by Robbie. And Barbie was a project that she pushed uphill herself. Like then she was like, she picked Gerwig to direct it. Like I do think that like Robbie is smart and understands that like, yeah, that I'm not going to, I'm never going to be a Tom Cruise or a DiCaprio or a Danzel who I think are maybe our last three standing movie stars. oh my Yeah. and like sorry We haven't even touched Danzel. Yeah. Danzel could like just pop up and be like, I'm going to go to Italy with my good friend, David air. And we're going to make the three equalizer and it's going to make a hundred million dollars. And they're like, what's the plot? Well, I told you, I'm going to go to Italy with my good friend, David air. And they're like, okay, $100 million. dollars Sure. he And they all said, hell yes. You want to, you want to be in the new gladiator? Hell yes. You go do that.
00:42:56
Speaker
The first equalizer made something like 101 million dollars. The second equalizer made 102 million dollars. Like it's it's a remarkable how consistent Denzel is. And so maybe like then maybe like what the lesson Glenn Powell needs to learn here or you know any future thank you Eric, Denzel and Gladiator.
00:43:17
Speaker
Just love how much fun he seems. Like even in the trailer, it's just great to see him having fun. I'm happy to see him have a good time. But like, perhaps like, you know, then Margo is blazing the new trail for the movie star, which is having, is basically like taking that control back from the studios. It's like, no, no, no, I will that now be behind the scenes. I will push for my own projects. And Glenn, Glenn Powell needs to, you know, get on that. um ah Hold on. I'm trying to remember his, His, what was the, uh, what was the rom com where he, yeah I mean, where i know or anyone, but you anyone, up or anyone but you yeah I'm going to make the anyone, but you universe real. anyone but universe. That's the pitch here. That's, that's the thing is they're making a sequel to anyone but you and the solution. Like the problem is you don't make a, that's not how you do it. How many great rom-com sequels can you think of? The way that you make a follow-up to a rom-com is you do what say Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks did. You just make a different rom-com with the two of you together. You follow up sleepless with Seattle, sleepless in Seattle with like you've got mail or you do what Richard Gere and Julia, Julia Roberts did, which is you follow pretty woman with runaway bride.
00:44:27
Speaker
You basically say, look, the the appeal here is these two movies start sharing a screen. Everything else is incidental. We'll just change it up because like the end of a rom-com is the two leads get together and live happily ever after. There is no way to make a sequel to that. That is in any ways. What are you going to do? Break them up and have them get back together. like It's a narrative problem that exists with the Star Wars sequels and yeah all sorts of like, all sorts of franchise sequels, which is we gave these characters happy endings. Now we have to break it up so they can have an adventure. But with a rom-com, it's particularly pointed because the ending is there together. And the only way not to have them together is to have them like hate each other's guts. And it's like, that is a very hard sell for a rom-com sequel. You know? Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. To that point. Oh yeah.
00:45:16
Speaker
um we hit the Have we hit the cap that a movie star can hit? Because even the ones that I enjoy nowadays, so I find them comparable to, I guess, almost what would be considered the almost like B tier celebrities from back in the day. Like I go, oh, Jesse Plemons, I love everything that he has. He has those qualities you say of like, can get me into movies where I go, I don't know about that one, but oh, he's in it. I just have to. But to me, he's more of like, oh, I really miss Philip Seymour Hoffman. yeah Miles Teller is almost like Jack Gyllenhaal, part two, right? Even Emma Stone, I find her more like the Miss Tilda Swinton, right? That sort of role that she's ah filling in here. And like I guess it's giving them longer tails, if anything. like um It almost felt like in the 90s, 80s, those stars were very boomer bust, right? Jean-Claude Van Demme, who the hell is that nowadays, right? But back then he was hot, absolutely hot.
00:46:11
Speaker
Same thing with even Antonio, Antonio Banderas, which is like the almost the stories could die out as much as they could rise up, they could die out. Now it's more like we don't, we don't shine as bright, but we shine from much longer, much stapler in a sort of way. trust That like gets at something I do find interesting about the evolution of the movie star, like just ignoring the whole systemic thing in the studio stuff that like Jack said, wasn't entirely correct to say. Like the issue is you also now have a generation of like incredibly handsome and beautiful people who look like movie stars, but think they are Steve Buscemi. Like Colin Farrell is a great example of that. It's where like Colin Farrell shows up and everybody's like, he's the hottest man alive. He's going to be in absolutely everything. He's going to be in like a superhero movie. He's going to be in a Spielberg movie. He's going to be in a Bruce Willis movie. He's going to be Joe Schumacher. He's going to be great. People are going to love him. He's going to like, he's going to explode. And like it very quickly becomes clear that what Colin Farrell really wants is to like, have a bad comb over, put on a pop belly, maybe shave his head, put on some ugly glasses and pretend to like fight Batman and Gotham.
00:47:13
Speaker
Or like be a sad, depressed guy who's going to be turned into a lobster or like be a horrible boss. Like this is what, or, or like monologue about our listen to Vince Vaughn monologue about how you get blue balls sometimes in your heart and why he can't vape because vaping is like sucking a robot's cock. ah Like this is, this is like where Colin Farrell wants it. Like he's, I don't know if I'm speaking out of school here, but he is happier there. I know people because Ireland is small. I know people who know people and they're like, he's, he's much happier now than he was when people were like, you're going to be the new Brad Pitt or you're going to be the new McConaughey. He's much happier being, no, I sit in a makeup chair for six hours and I come out and I'm an unrecognizable and can act like I'm in a 1940s film noir. And there are just so, so many of those. I think like McConaughey is to a certain extent, one of those where like he's trapped in these rom coms for years. And like, to be honest, seems pretty depressed about it. Then he gets out and it's like, yeah, I'm going to put on a pop belly. I'm going to shave my head. I'm going to win an Oscar. You know, um like there are this whole generation of stuff fires, was it not?
00:48:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to grow everything out and be really things. Sorry. I was thinking of gold was the one I was thinking of. Apologies for that. Remember gold. um like yeah Oh yeah. Christ Dallas Howard, baby. But like and you mentioned like Emma Stone where Emma Stone, like people are like, put her in a rom-com, have her do crazy stupid with love. She can play a native Hawaiian woman in Aloha. She could be Spider-Man's girlfriend. And like, it turns out what she actually wants to be is like the worst human being in the world in a Benny Sadfi TV show and Nathan Fielder TV show. Um, or she wants to be like young baby, sexy Frankenstein, you know? Um, like that is where she wants to be. Yeah. She wants to explore ugly horniness with your ghost over there. Just for a couple of movies, we're just going to explore ugly horniness.
00:49:05
Speaker
Yeah, even even like ah to include more women like Florence Pugh. Sure, she can be in the new ones, but it's it's the weirder ones like with A24, as you were saying. And I don't see i don't see an actor nowadays encompassing what the old school was considered to have all the range in the world. And they're not going to hit those heights, but I do think that there is a level now underneath it where it's like, this is more or less what we end up with now. I think back to Steve Martin handing out the AFI Lifetime Award at Tom Hanks, where it's like, I saw his acting. I was like, he's pretty good. I hope he goes somewhere. And then um I saw Big. He's got Comedy Chops. And then I saw Apollo 13. I said, motherfucker.
00:49:45
Speaker
It's very dramatic, too. you know So to have that bam, bam, bam, I could do so so many different things. um does does Does any of it link to the international audience? I'm not sure so much as nowadays there has been this idea of um the tradition of you've got to do well in China to sell, right?
Impact of Technology on Movie Star System
00:50:04
Speaker
It's now sort of like going away. We can hit we can almost take off in a domestic market or even um Latin America. Right. And so where does Glenn Powell do for that man's from Texas? in
00:50:16
Speaker
I think the thing with movie stars, which is really interesting, is they still actually play better overseas than they do in America, which is very odd. um Like that's why Bruce Willis is able or Nicholas Cage, like those old kind of like nineties movie stars were able to like work their way out of debt or to work their way towards whatever Bruce Willis was doing. You we all know the very tragic story diagnosed with dementia, but for years he would do things where he would get paid a million dollars a day and he would like helicopter in and helicopter out. And whatever you got done with Bruce Willis in that day, you got in the movie and that was it. That was the Bruce Willis deal. You didn't book him for a role. You booked him for a period of time. Um, and that was because like those movie stars do still sell overseas.
00:50:56
Speaker
Um, so you could like Steven Seagal was able to like spin out a movie career in like Chinese movies because like as putting Steven Seagal on your poster in Eastern Europe or in Africa or even in Asia could be a draw to audiences because they kind of trusted. They still trust the Nicholas cages. They still trust the Harrison boards. They still trust the Bruce Willis is an apparent. They still trust the Steven Seagal. By the way, that movie is China salesman. If you have not seen China salesman, it is insane. the po No, no, no. the the the I love that I'm like a cinema propaganda guy. so the big eric showing is that put oh that
00:51:34
Speaker
yeah what is it stephenson go with mood yeah yeah there vf yeah They're very very close buddies. China Salesman is the movie that China made for the African market. to convince like African nations to accept Chinese aid money so it's about how like the Americans are evil and they're coming to plunder your resources but only the virtuous literal China salesman of the title can be trusted to protect your national resources unnamed African country. But like it's great, but yeah, there we go. You have like, yeah, Mike Tyson and Steven Segal, but Steven Segal films all of his scenes in a bar. There's a sequence where his character is required to leave the bar and like ride a motorcycle, which is not something Steven Segal can do. So it is a person who looks significantly thinner than Steven Segal does in this photo down here, but they're riding a motorbike and you can see when the person rides by that they are wearing a motorbike helmet with a printout of Steven Segal's face.
00:52:28
Speaker
on the inside of it with two eye holes. It's incredible. Um, sorry, but yeah, so, so movie stars, interestingly, still do sell overseas, at least within reasonable budget margins, but that they really don't sell as well. they Like they sell better to foreign markets than they do to American audiences, which I find fascinating. Well, you know, we we've moved on our our entertainment sources have all have also moved on. You know, like God, Eric found it. Oh, no. Oh, no. Hold on. Oh, my God. ah there There it is. It's up. It's up forever. That's that's like that reminds me like Hitler in a bike helmet.
00:53:09
Speaker
Like, if you've ever seen the behind the scenes for The Abyss, the way they shot those underwater scenes was it's ah a very small projector projecting the actors' faces in the miniatures when they're doing their underwater. It's really, really neat and really cool technology. But they're like, we can't do projectors. we just Does anyone have a color printer? That's all that's all we can afford for The Abyss. but That's not CGI work. I think that's just a printout. Like I'm seeing in the comments, this is bad CGI. yeah No, they just like printed a black and white photo of like Segal's face and just like pasted it inside. the At least that's what it looks like in motion. um In this picture, it looks like the eye holes are literally cut out. Yes. Yeah. That's what it looked like when I saw it in motion. Yeah. Practical effects.
00:53:55
Speaker
this This is what Nolan aspires to. This is what Christopher Nolan is all about. We all said we wanted this, and this is what we got. We all wanted more practical effects. but you know like And the other part of this you know giant equation that I was getting to is like you know a lot of American audiences. I'm so i'm speaking, you know obviously, from a very small sample point like of like my my kids, my kids who are teenagers, they don't know movie stars. They can name 10 of their favorite youtubers and you know talk about all of the the the Hijinks they get up to on a daily basis But if you ask them to name like an actor in a movie we saw last week They wouldn't be able to do it and the you know the the other part of this but it is a giant gumbo of things that are kind of diluting the the the movie star and
00:54:45
Speaker
as ah as a ah job, as an occupation is just this rush of other media that people have to contend with. Not just killing the movie star, killing the movies to a certain extent. extent Like again, and and I understand it. It's like, if you have a phone that gives you everything you need, why would you go to a theater specifically to watch one particular thing that lasts two hours? Like I understand like, and particularly if you've been raised that way as well, like I get it. I understand the existential threat that like streaming and and kind of YouTubing poses to movie going as a whole. And yeah, how that realigns the culture as well.
00:55:19
Speaker
Um, you know, I mean, I don't think it's all bad to be clear. I think that like the movie star system, to be clear, has done terrible things. You've had like, it's, it's given power to people who really didn't deserve power. We're literally talking a moment ago about a guy who leveraged his stardom to like become Vladimir Putin's hype man. and The movie star system has not like across the board, been 110% God's greatest gift to mankind or whatever it is. Um, but like, so I am, I'm cognizant of like times change and things change and change is natural. And I do think that like the idea, even the idea of the movie star has changed. We're like in the forties, they were just day players who were owned by the studio. So it's great to have that image back up there. I really love that anybody clicking into this channel is like pro pro Putin and bro, um, but like it is yeah back in the 1940s. Yeah. That's twins to our triplets. Isn't it was triplets with Eddie Murphy, I think was what they're planning at one stage. Um, what but like, yeah, they're going to triplets with that. That was a rumor. I believe was that they were going to triplets. Obviously DeVito Schwarzenegger and Murphy was going to be the twist. Um, 10 out of 10 of the Jack's just like, no, just don't do that. I'm really happy that didn't happen. Yeah.
00:56:25
Speaker
but like Obviously the movie stars different now than it was in the 40s obviously it changed dramatically during the 60s into the 70s into the 90s but it is I do wonder what the future of it looks like like it's one of the comments I think and I don't know whether it was a kind of a a tip jar comment or whatever asked like is it is that now directors are they the big thing and it's like I don't even know that. Because obviously I know that people will go and see a Christopher Nolan movie. I know Nolan is a brand name, but outside of that, most directors have to make franchise films. Like Lee Isaac Chung has to make a sequel to Twister, you know? Denis Villeneuve is making like Dune is a relatively new to cinema with the exception of Lynch's like 1984 flop, but it's still a brand name. It's still a piece of IP, you know? there aren't many directors who get to do that. Like Greta Gerwig has to go make Narnia movies at Netflix, which she seems very happy to do. I need to rush to say, I'm not saying that Netflix like held a gun to her head and we're like, you're going to, you're going to take us through the wardrobe, Greta. But like, there is a sense
00:57:24
Speaker
ah no She absolutely does. When, when, if those movies ever come out, we will talk about Greta Gerwig as pop Christian filmmaker. But like, I do think that there is this question of like, I don't know that even movie star directors have that level of power anymore. It's unless you're Nolan, like unless you're somebody like Nolan and maybe Spielberg at a push, but like Scorsese has to bounce around streaming services to get his movies made. Like he went to Netflix and they made the Irishman and he was like, I got this other movie about the genocide in the name of America. like No, no, no, no, no, Marty. Um, You take that right across the street to Apple. And now Apple are like, and that that that the that we don't know if we're going to be doing as much of the making stuff as we were, you know?
00:58:05
Speaker
Not your fault, Marty. No judgment. No blame, Marty. It's just not what we want to do. I think closest to like name recognition, and it's still more of a shock and awe even, is Tarantino. And that's just because, yeah yeah well, him, not so much the media and all of them have made such a fuss about his like 10 perfect movies and then I'm gone. type of thing, you know, it's like, well, we have to turn up now just to see if you, you know, if you did it or if you die, I want to see a body. You know, he made his career into, uh, he made each of his movies into an event, right? Like that was the plan where it's like, it's not just the summer blockbuster. It's a Tarantino movie. And we only get a limited number of these theoretically.
00:58:44
Speaker
And he also turned himself into a celebrity as well. Like he, like Tarantino became a talking head. He would appear on TV shows. Like he'd just go on late night randomly, not when he was selling a movie. He'd be just like, Hey, I want to talk about Top Gun for like half an hour. And like David Leonard me like, yeah, sure. That'll go well. Yeah. why not And like he became like somebody who my gran could recognize, like my gran could recognize Tarantino's face. Um, and also identified the episode of CSI. He directed cause there was a lot of foot emphasis in it. A lot of foot emphasis. Yeah, you are getting some of that. The younger generation and whatnot. They they seek. I do think they seek name recognition in the way that my guess my demographic really loved ah like Tim Burton. Right. Bly House was that director shoot.
00:59:34
Speaker
oh Oh yeah, the haunting of Bly Manor. Oh, like Flanagan has actually become a very notable director for that style of his. like People are seeking out a sort of like, I know what I'm getting when I'm with this person. So if anything, they almost like. But he's moved into TV, like he's really moved away from directing movies as well is the thing, like he's had to go to the- And now he's become the- And now they look for him in shows, you know, the Flanaganverse or whatever. Snyder. How many people love Snyder? And I don't know why, but they do. Not as many as Snyder thinks.
01:00:10
Speaker
but No, and I think, I think like kind of if this is wrapped up a lot in like Frost, your earlier point about, and I guess Darren's earlier point about actors being very ah more comfortable and happier with these smaller, weirder roles because they know that they can't break through that movie starter ceiling. And so they're like, guess what? Yeah, I'm going to put on a wig and just have fun, or I'm going to, you know, hang out with my friend, Yorgos, and just make weirdo movies because that's where I can have fun. And hopefully we kind of get that equal equilibrium where we do get an influx of more creative projects because they're not hoping for a movie stardom anymore.
01:00:51
Speaker
And that looks like I think my third superhero will be the time I crack it. I thought like I've got a good feeling. I'm going to I'm going to become I'm going to play the MCU is looking for a Charles x Xavier and I'm going to marry JLo again. That's the plan. Third time will be the charm on each of those shotgun wedding to start. What about do you think there's any that almost made it and like flop so far? I've got some more written down.
01:01:21
Speaker
I think Jonathan Majors was doing well until the thing. The thing. Until the thing, right? Chadwick Boseman. I think he was doing really well until his thing, which is a completely different thing. One day of cancer, the other one, ah domestic violence, I believe. and um Alongside them, I thought yeah Michael B. Jordan was having to come up too, and I'm not sure what happened there, because they were taking on some dramatic roles. Jordan transitioned into directing. Like that's again, like, like the Robbie, maybe this is just healthier. Right. Like Jordan jordan peel is a great example of the people are citing like Jordan Peele as a brand name director. And I think that's a good argument, but Peele is also a guy who's like, can I be an actor? And it's like,
01:02:03
Speaker
No, I just want it's easier for me to direct movies but like because put Jordan directed Creed three, which is like a legitimately wonderfully directed movie. Um, but I think that's where his interests seem to lie now, which is wild because he's one of the most charismatic leading men in cinema. Honestly, like he can, he can do anything in front of the camera and I'm, I'm there for it, but you know, perhaps it's that constantly smashed in your head.
01:02:30
Speaker
I was there for Grand Four Six for very different reasons. Very different. That's the curse of the human tour. It's bad, but you'll be the one that survives. Yeah. No, you know, tell her avenge. Miles Teller ah eventually made a little comeback and and other people I'm sure were in that movie. ask come How pissed do you think Miles Teller is that there was Glenn Powell who got the Tom Cruise film school? ah oh yeah I don't think don't think he goes for those kinds of roles. Yeah. Yeah. He definitely likes his weird ones, like even whiplash or back in that one where they were in college, I believe. I watched that one. He and Michael B. Jordan are together in like the one with his image in Poots, which is just a great name. Everybody Poots.
01:03:17
Speaker
um Sam Worthington double finger there in the, in the comments with the two year donation. um Sam Worthington is actually in Kevin Costner's horizon at the moment, which I find fascinating because like the horizon two is not happening. Apparently it's just gone on the back girl or girl shelf. So I can probably talk about this. It won't be regarded as spoiler. The big reveal at the end of the first horizon is a trailer for horizon two, which is a movie that no longer exists apparently. But the big reveal is that the villain of horizon two is going to be Giovanni Ribisi. And I just want to say it is incredible. Like it, like the camera cruises up and it's it's the back of his head. And then we cut to riding horses and where suddenly we're seeing his silhouette and Kevin Costner has a shotgun out and suddenly he turns around and faces the cameras Giovanni Ribisi. And then it's her horizon.
01:04:04
Speaker
part two in American saga in cinemas in August. Um, and it's like the kids, the kids love Giovanni Rabisi. But my question is looking at the fact that Worthington is one of the leads in like horizon and the big cliffhanger at the end of the movie is, Oh my God, it was Giovanni Rabisi all along. Do we think Kevin Costner loved to Avatar?
01:04:28
Speaker
um
01:04:31
Speaker
The to note I had on dances as well as was it will be much better if everybody was blue. That was the one thing and and Jimmy, he saw it. He saw, he made it real. I think Kevin Costner was probably like, you know, the older generations failed Margo Robbie because he has attempted to be on the production level of several movies. or All of them failure mostly because he insisted they'd be very long starring Kevin Costner. And in most cases directed by Kevin Costner as well. like There's a really great line with Kevin Reynolds. right where Reynolds has directed like a numerous Costner movies, including like Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, the famous Waterworld, and then the Hatfield and McCoys.
01:05:12
Speaker
And they have this relationship where it always starts with like Reynolds being like myself and Cosner were best buds. Cosner going, and Kevin, ah do you feel like you're making the best directorial choices? And then going here, just let me step into the directorial role. And then an interview is Kevin Reynolds being, you know what? I think it's a good thing that Kevin Costner basically directed this movie himself because it meant Kevin Costner got to work with both his favorite actor and his favorite director. And I'll never work with that fucker again. And then four years later going on and making like a ah history channel mini series with him, Costner is such a fascinating man.
01:05:48
Speaker
i See, I think that's what's missing. A certain level of crazy. like I think that's staying in the 90s, in the 80s, even near the back
Scrutiny and Privacy of Actors
01:05:58
Speaker
end of 2000. Because if if we think of our, you know, of movie actors from back then, they've all got something, even Cruise in the whole ideology thing, right? And they've all got just something that leads that sort of. And and as you say like it's such a thin line between that and like the Jonathan major stuff. Like that's the thing. It's like, did you can, I can imagine, like part of me does wonder if you mentioned it earlier. And I think I wonder if that is part of the concern of it, the idea of like, can we have movie stars without the baggage of movie stars? Yeah. I think that's part of it.
01:06:28
Speaker
under no but understandably today and ah and we kind of alluded to it we should be direct and honest about it things like say Kirk Douglas and Kirk Douglas's private life and what we now know about Kirk Douglas's private life we would not tolerate from a movie star today and quite rightly so um and part of me is like our studio is also just doing the calculation of like man, it would be really easy if like Kang was just played by an AI bot that would absolutely positively, certainly not like abuse its girlfriend while boasting that appearing in Loki season two was contributing to the greatness of mankind as a species. Um, like
01:07:04
Speaker
Yeah. like You say that, but even to to Jack's point of like how his his children now see more YouTubers and they recognize them more, even on the gaming side of things, you see so many crossovers with YouTube personalities, but there's so much backlash whenever one of them comes off to be you know have done something, the most recent one being Dr. Disrespect. Now the NFL is like, we have nothing to do with this man. He's getting taken out of video games, right? I think as much as it is, we want the power, it's also we don't want that baggage. Like, so you end up with this, like, I can't have be, have you being too strong, but also if you're just a little too crazy back then, it's just, he's eccentric and hard to work with. Now it's like,
01:07:42
Speaker
i But back then, before we had access to all the information we have, and everyone has a ah camera on them at all times, before, you know, now we know they're not eccentric, they're they're bad. But before, we didn't know, we didn't have all that information, or at least all that information was murky enough where you could plausibly deny it. This is me plausibly denying something, by the way. way ah um Right. And so there there is a an adjustment period where so ah someone that driven, that egocentric to believe that they are good enough is going to naturally rise up the ranks in the entertainment world because you need that bit of crazy to be driven. You need that bit of ego to think you are good enough, right?
01:08:29
Speaker
But now they're now the other side of it. Also, you need to be a little squeaky or cleaner than oh Oh, no, I'm an AI. Thanks, Eric. man and we go bi centen him out right And so like we, they need that. And so it's, it's all, it's always going to be a balance, right? Between who holds the ultimate power. We know way back in the studio system, that was too much power for the studios. Then the stars got a little power. Now they got too much power. So we're constantly going to be like pulling back and forth between who has control of what and it eventually it'll just be AI. Cause that's all it's good for is making mediocre art.
01:09:08
Speaker
Yeah, like who you got, um even ah even including the older stars of the of the crazies, right? If Tom Cruise is the wildest, right? That is like nothing compared to how it used to be to me. I think, and he probably isn't even wild off screen anymore, like Bale with the roles he chooses, with what he chooses to be, how he portrays himself, his whole method and whatnot. I think the last thing we heard about him that was negative, that was the the Terminator freak out, right? I mean, like there there's the situation of depth say, and obviously like you have the, of the more serious case of like Kevin Spacey who is like blowing his way back. I will say, I think I mentioned last week, the scariest thing or so can was a poster for a new movie starring Kevin Spacey. Um, like you have this and yeah, well again, because movie stars Dell internationally. So. There's the photo of Kevin Spacey doing an actor's workshop in Eastern Europe, which is very, um, kind of, it feels like the beginning of something unsettlingly enough. Unfortunately, um, like there, there is that sense of like you Mel Gibson is, is a very obvious example of somebody who has pulled their way back, got Oscar nominations for like hacksaw rich directing hacksaw Ridge after everything that like, and that's a case where it's not really
Clean Image vs. Wild Persona
01:10:15
Speaker
ambiguous. It's not like whispers and gossip. There's actually like tape recordings of several of these incidents, you know? yeah yeah Um,
01:10:22
Speaker
Yeah, so ah but I do think there it has been a line of like, yeah, there's only so much we can do with spacey and Gibson, we're gonna try to make sure that the next ones aren't sure like that. And that's why like they are more squeaky clean. And that's why I would even with the with Glenn Powell, I feel like there's not much happening above here. yeah He has a pet slug that he loves. like He has a dog and a pet slug. That seems to be all that's going on in there. Have you guys seen that interview where Tom Cruise gets sprayed with a water gun and he's just there like, why would you do that? Why would you do such? why would And the the intensity that just comes off of this man when he's not even acting, right? Yeah.
01:10:59
Speaker
when he's with Glenn Powell and they're just in front of cameras that he radiates and Glenn Powell, I see it here when the smile, the smile comes through, but there's nothing going on in this forehead. Nicholson with the crazy eyebrows, you know, like it was there all the time. Even in the other interviews, he's like down here like, yeah, I just love to act, you know, that kind of like wildness about him. I don't see that in Chalamet. I don't see that in Glenn Powell yet. I think as a nation, we've, we've all agreed not to ask any questions about giant Nicholson. Like that's the thing. I think collectively as a culture, we've agreed that we just don't want to know anything about Nicholson. Correct. Yeah. It's like, we know the better. Yeah. And like it to his like Nicholson also like has disappeared from public. He still goes to LA Laker games and he still know shows up in New York.
01:11:44
Speaker
Does he? I didn't know that. Oh, that's very sad. He's like, just done. He's like, okay. He has retired. Yeah. Um, but he he still goes to later games for like, it's like Gene Hackman. That's the kind of thing where he just kind of like bowed out and seemed to be like enjoying his life. Like there are photos of him on like yachts and like in hot tubs and things. And I'm like, that is great. If I were that rich yeah and I had done like that much, and I was like, You know, I have contributed to culture. People know what my voice and i my voice sounds like on my eyebrows look like. I'd be like, yeah, I can just I can go home early and retire. like Wouldn't that be lovely to reach that level? Good for them. Good for them. Bow out before you bow out before you become the villain. yeah Yeah. To the last of them, as far as like.
01:12:32
Speaker
That crazy nature, I said Bale. Last two for me would be like Nicolas Cage, but he's not even crazy. He just really likes ah German cinema. That's where all of his inspiration, it's always German. It's always German. I lost my hand. I lost my bride. He's like, I saw that in a play, a German play once. beat I just wanted to try it. And then the other one was ah Tom Hardy with his earlier roles at least like Bronson, just out here bare knuckle boxing people in the buff. And I'm like, yeah, he's gotta go somewhere. even like Bain, which is an insane performance in a like multi hundred million dollar blockbuster. Like, can you imagine showing up in like the, the MCU or even in Twisters and being like, this is my accent.
01:13:14
Speaker
like you know where got from Yeah. From a travel from a box, the king of the gypsies. I used to be demanded what to beat my face in and spoke like this. And I said, Chris, we can, we can either do this or we can try something else. Yeah. I did the story of him on the set of venom, where he like shows up to the restaurant where he's supposed to have dinner with like the character's girlfriend. And he just goes to the director before they'd be in shooting and says, look, Reuben, I want you to know by the end of the take, I'm going to be in that lobster tank. And Reuben Fletcher is like a shit. We now, we I had the entire team of like interns and production assistants wrapping the claws of every lobster in that tank because I really didn't want lobster cuts off Tom Hardy's Dick to beat the headline on like TMZ the following morning.
01:13:59
Speaker
You know, it do it is a ah different energy, I suppose, of just, I'm gonna go, and it goes to the other way, even for like the purists, they're crazy too, like De Niro youre saying, Lee, let the writers write and we act, don't, yeah he absolutely hates like ad-libbing and freestyle and any of that kind of stuff, but to have that energy of just, I was like, of do the craft, do the thing, you know, it's it's not there as much, and I think it's because it's hard to reign in, So they could be a risk, you know, and finding them in a strange hotel with strange people. And you've ruined the tour. Like Shia LaBeouf is also in that in that world. right he's ah He's a bit weird. and He's a bit weird. He's had a few murmurings here and there, a little method, a little weird, but but but also like people no longer like working with him. So he's just not working as much.
01:14:49
Speaker
Yeah, he's in the new Coppola movie. He's in um the megalopolis. Oh, oh, good. Oh yeah. I like it was a Jack Black. Bet that made it easier to finance, but sorry. I like that Jack Black just showed up to watch. He's not in the movie. He was just watching them make it. All right. Why don't we start delving into some super chats here? All righty. All righty. Let's start here. on Nick Wharton, thanks for the super chats. It's happy Tuesday. Love the new show. Glad I could catch it live today. Thank you, Nick Wharton. Pure pyro thoughts. Oh, speaking of a little bit crazy thoughts on Joaquin Phoenix and the Joker. That's more or less what I mean. that We're like.
01:15:36
Speaker
If you were trying to be a breakout star, 80s, 90s, you'd probably fizzle out, right? Whereas nowadays, you you are almost seeing older stars, yeah right? More longevity on a lot of other ones. is that The path to stardom is a lot gentler on the knees as you're climbing up and then as you're descending. ah yeah Yeah. I love to see like i love seeing how how he's grown, how he's gotten bigger over time. Oh, yeah. i think i I think a lot of people are going to have very complicated feelings about ah Joker de Follies as they far i do. Thank you. um So I think that's going to be interesting when like kind of the the zeitgeist and the counterculture folk meet head on.
01:16:25
Speaker
I don't know about it. He's kind of always been present in zeitgeist and zeit guy stand counterculture, like, you know, for Gladiator. um Sure. Walk the Line, this is Johnny Cash that makes his talking counterculture to that. i think I think there are some people that make it as sort of the zeitgeist as weirdos, right? Where this is, if you're not mainstream, but you're also not getting into the whole pretentious indie bit, this is like, Oh, I bet you've never heard of Joaquin Phoenix, have you? Like, yeah, most people have. He's not that obscure. He did start a movie that made a billion dollars and won him an Oscar, you know? And he was also Johnny Cash. um Right. Absolutely. And in Gladiator, he was a bad guy in Gladiator.
01:17:11
Speaker
Oh, he's been around. Yeah. Be pen dragon. Thanks for ah entering or being a member of the tip jar for eight months. So we appreciate that support. CSI freak says our 40 X is far more crazier. This is the 40 experience movie going experience air, water spray, mad shaking. It's great. My first film they showed was Aqua man. And they had to turn the settings down. What? Imagine Aquaman in 4D, everybody. A very wet movie. ah Well, do they just flood the theater? That'd be great. And then be would I didn't. OK, I expected Aquaman smells like in 4DX because they spray little bursts of air. um Just fish, oh pure umami, that guy, and beer.
01:18:05
Speaker
yeah i was ah yeah as I was buying this ticket. I was like, did I get the right thing? I almost felt like I was getting a scam because it was a so much smaller theater than all the other ones. I said, I think they're just going to take us into the break room and shake the seats. I remember reading a magazine with a yeah with a leg of broom that poking at me whenever there's shrapnel flying across. but I've been shot.
01:18:32
Speaker
Let's see here. I have star directors replace movie stars in the sense audiences will go watch a director over a movie star. we We touched on that a little bit, which is like, it's just their own style of movie stardom, right?
Directors as Stars
01:18:46
Speaker
Right. Like, I mean, Oppenheimer is Christopher Nolan's arguably the star of Oppenheimer. I don't like as much as I love Killian Murphy. And as much as I'm delighted, he has an Oscar now. I don't think like that the crowds were baying for Murphy. right when When you have to teach people how to pronounce your name on the red carpet, you're not yet a movie star. That is, that is one of my words. And a lot of Irish people got really angry at me for saying, I don't know Killian Murphy's a movie star. But if you have to teach people how to pronounce your name, that it isn't Sillian, you're not a movie star yet. And I think
01:19:16
Speaker
Killian is tremendous. Um, he is actually really nice. He's really wonderful. Um, yeah, no, I think, I think directors, I think like we talked about earlier, also kind of like boutique studios. Like if, if a 24 comes across in the trailer. ah people know it's a mark of quality or, you know, also some sort of Some more trailers that were about Jesus. ah One of them was like Kevin Sorbo, Cooper Gooding, Jr. Oh, my God's not dead. Three is this or something? No, no. It's some guy who was like a drug dealer, gone to prison. He's going to get executed, but he found the Lord. And then there was Reagan. And then there's like Ralphianus as the pope.
01:19:54
Speaker
And then A24 came through keeping the whole Bible and Jesus thing, but it's a new horror movie with ah Hugh Grant. just yes the one where two women come to the something it like yeah it's like Yeah. I think it's because I'm in the Bible belt, so to speak. So on top of that, they gave me more ads for Jesus or AI. And then finally a 24 goes, how'd you like Jesus? a i'm like Oh, okay.
01:20:29
Speaker
If you like Jesus and Four Weddings and a funeral, have we got the movie for you? Yeah, there it is. yeah Of all those, I just want to see the Hugh Grant one. Yeah, that one. Of course. Because like at the end of the day, that's what we're... you know like When we talk about movie stars, when we talk about studios, all we are talking about is someone putting their reputation on the line to say, I think that this is worth your time and money, whether
Combining Stars for Audience Appeal
01:20:54
Speaker
that's you know Marvel, whether that's Arnold Schwarzenegger, or whether that is A24, right? I think you have to do it collectively now. like um you know ah Like Jordan Peele, when he's with specific actors, I'm more eager, right? Hugh Grant, with specific actors, I'm more eager. It's almost like the Tim Allen effect. Some people just don't do well alone.
01:21:15
Speaker
but that almost speaks to old school studios. I um ah do. They're not used to like bargain where it's like, okay, I want this one that does well with like a Western audience. And I need this like, female we'll give you him for three weeks. And in return, you're going to give him, let him finish the picture. um yeah Yeah. Yeah. So like we, the wizard of ours have like four different directors, I think, cause they kept rotating them out. Cause like, he's got to go make a Western picture. um that's like Sure, you're in. um Yeah, so it's like all this collective bargaining and and oh appealing to the demographic has to be with them, right? I don't know if anyone can sell it, but maybe if you get four of them together, you're like, okay, all right, something's going on here. So what you're saying is you want an A24 produced Marvel movie starring Hugh Grant. No, disgusting. I mean, i my bar for what I would watch is pretty low, but I would watch that.
01:22:09
Speaker
yeah to Speaking to like ah the Dungeons and Dragons, right? you Chris Pine, Hugh Grant, the directors of Game Night. Michelle Rodriguez, yep. Yeah, collectively. And that's almost how you do it, where but one person can't get all the audiences, but maybe yeah two, four, five. but um but but That's the Gladiator 2 logic, where it's like we have Paul Mescal for the Gen Z's, we have Denzel for the OAP's, Pedro Pascal is still Zaddy, baby. It's like that that is a movie that feels like it is demographically grown in a lab to be a like six quadrant hits somehow.
01:22:46
Speaker
It's not always before. I like if you need it, like Latinos always get cheats. It's just that's just good. teaching yeah Right. Did you see shotgun wedding? yeah'm so good We must we must do a deep dive on J.Lo. To be fair, like J.Lo is just streaming hits. If you want the mother, I will I will dedicate an entire episode to shotgun wedding. I think it is fascinating. Okay. Well, we'll put that on, we'll put that on the list. If the audience demands it, I'm willing to do it. Um, they, they won't. It's okay. Um, let's see here. We have we we end an episode on like the Christmas prints. Didn't we, if I remember correctly, the three Christmas prints movies, we sure did. It was great. And it's still one of my favorite
Budget Constraints and Streaming Shift
01:23:31
Speaker
episodes. white people with on
01:23:33
Speaker
King and commoner, thank you for the tip over on YouTube. It almost feels like Hollywood doesn't want any more movie stars. Are they trying not to have to dedicate so much of the budget to the actors? I mean, obviously we talked a lot about ah the the ah press ramifications of if a movie star, you know, ah delves into the bad, but also that's a huge factor budget. but yeah um yeah And particularly in the streaming age, where like the in the old days, what you would do is you would give a star a reasonable portion of money and then they would give them residuals off the backend. And those residuals will be calculated assuming that it would have long legs in theaters. So if you were going to star in a movie, you knew it was going to be in theaters for three or four months. So you knew law of averages, just even rolling down that hill, you would pick up like a fair whack of money. Nowadays, if you're putting a movie directly onto streaming, there's none of that. So you don't, you instead of like taking a residual, you insist on getting paid.
01:24:27
Speaker
a larger chunk of cash upfront. And that carries over into like the shortened cinema cinematic windows where like, even if you're in a movie releasing in theaters, if you're worried that they're just going to send it straight to streaming, you're not going to want residuals because there aren't going to be any, because it's not going to run long enough. So you want to get paid more upfront. Like that's why if you look at things like there was the Netflix Nora Ephron movie. um which had the absurd budget where she wants something like $180 million dollars to make a romantic comedy. And everyone was like, how the hell does a Nora Ephron movie demand the same budget as something like, you know, four or five Dev Patel's monkey man? And the reason for that is because
01:25:04
Speaker
ah she would have to pay everybody upfront in order to get them involved in the movie. sure and That's why the Scarlett Johansson and Channing Tatum like moon movie that nobody's heard of cost like $130 million dollars because like probably 50 million of that went on the two leads because they knew that it was going to go pretty much straight to streaming. Like that's why it is, I think. um Yeah, money, money, money, money, money. It's incredibly volatile now, even something like without a scandal. I'm sure a lot of people lost faith in the in the rock stock after the whole, oh, I'm going to change the power imbalances or whatever. And well you didn't do anything. You flop just as much as the hierarchy of power, isn't it? hierarch He did change the hierarchy of power, to be fair. He did change it. Not in the way he intended, but he did change it. He's my job. i'm off the w and pulled down yeah
01:25:56
Speaker
and Let's see here. We have double finger. Thank you for this tip. ah How is Sam Worthington nowadays? Anyway, we talked a little bit about Sam Worthington earlier, you know, more than anybody's talked about Sam Worthington. Find me five Avatar movies. He's fine. Are we all right? He's fine. He's he will continue to be just as bland as ever. No offense to Sam Worthington. Can I throw a really hot take on that? Like what I find really strange is that like Australia produced Sam Worthington and then they were like, look, we've created an actor so bland with no personality whatsoever, but we think we can do it even better. We hope you like Jay Courtney.
01:26:36
Speaker
Um, it is so strange that like Australia was like, maybe Sam Worthington is too spicy. Maybe he has too much personality. Here we go. Second time. Boomerang. All right. Wow. Did you just have to look up Jai Courtney? I have a tab open for Sam Worthington to remember what his face looks like. He was in, he was in black ops and yeah, he was also in a lot of like streaming movies. Wow.
01:27:07
Speaker
And a Terminator movie I think as well wasn't he he was in like the the Christian Bale one salvation salvation. Yeah, yeah Speaking of ah Christian Bales, you know little light land which you know, I don't want to be a fucking night I don't want to be an apologist, but I can I understand where he came from ah as far as that rant is concerned yeah Didn't you tell us of of Denzel when he had his outbursts because people were like not respecting his space while he was in a wheelchair and did Oh, that wasn't you. it was I don't think that was you. No, yeah no there was ah we interviewed a developer for Outlast Trials and he was on, he was like a stagehand or whatever and, and phone when was where was Denzel in a wheelchair? flights very but Flight? Was he in a wheelchair in flight?
01:27:55
Speaker
I don't know. That's the one where he's the pilot and he's an alcoholic. Although no, actually it's the other guys in the James badge jails and the wheelchair and flight apologies.
01:28:07
Speaker
You're right, he is paralyzed. He's solving the mystery while paralyzed. And you know, Joe Lee is the cop who's like the one who does yeah the footwork for him. And okay yeah, sorry, good call. He was in, he was in the chair and it was his door that they kept on like going in and out of it. He was like strapped down into it, obviously for the for the thing. And he's like, can y'all, can you guys like not go through, like you they're bringing heavy gear and you know, almost hitting him with some of the stuff. He's like, please don't please none of that. And then, um, as he recounted the most Denzel, Can y'all stop going to that motherfucking door? And I'm like, we got some jobs to do here. Yeah.
Tom Cruise and Hollywood's Future
01:28:43
Speaker
We got some jobs. Sometimes you're just like in a man's space there. So, you know, again, not for apologies for bail, but I can see where he's coming from.
01:28:52
Speaker
There are certain times, you know, like, I know I think Darren, you and I talked about this, um, uh, you know, way back at the other show when, uh, when Tom Cruise had his whole, you know, mask melt down yeah during the filming, and you know, we are trying to save Hollywood. yeah Do you understand what we're doing here? We're setting a precedent. And it's like, you know, like part of that is very true. Like he is trying to save the industry. yeah part of it is is also, to be fair, a bit of a God complex. This is the movie star thing where like the weight of the world depends. Like that's the, the famous Tom Cruise Scientology video, which I'm sure. And again, I'm throwing this out to Eric. I don't know if it exists in the wild legally anymore, but I remember there was a while when it circulated on YouTube, but the one where he's like, he it is the Scientology recruitment video with Tom Cruise. And he's like, cause you know, if there's an accident, you're the only one who can help.
01:29:42
Speaker
you might be a Scientologist. Like that's the kind of like God esque energy that Cruz kind of aspires to where it's not just that he is saving movies because he's a movie star. He's saving movies because his religion has taught him that he's the only one who can help Jack. Um, God bless that ah crazy, crazy man. is little There we go. That's that's well done Eric. That is yeah. We're not on a list. We're not on a list.
01:30:09
Speaker
All
Enjoying Bad Movies
01:30:10
Speaker
right. Well, we'll move on. Ah, thanks for the YouTube tips. What qualities make a bad movie enjoyable? Fun personal tastes of like, Oh, that appealed to me. You know, those moments where you're like, those jokes that make you laugh and you're just like, that wasn't funny, but I don't know why it just really hit me. For me, what I think works is like it's kind of earnestness, but not like self-importance, which is a very thin line to walk. Like I finally, like if I'm watching a bad movie that I'm really enjoying, I feel like I've been given the key to the inside of like at the head of a person who is not like human or recognizably human.
01:30:48
Speaker
who is looking at the same world I am, but seeing it in a way that does not make sense, cannot be reconciled with like the human experience of what living is. Tommy Wiseau's The Room is like a great example of that, where like you can tell that this is his vision, this is how he sees the world, but it is completely insane. Birdemic is another example of that, where human beings do not interact the way that they do, but you can tell that inside this guy's head, this is how humans behave. im Like for me, that's the thing with a bad movie that I find enjoyable. It's one that I watch and go, wait, like it's like, this is like, this is like, I can recognize things that look human that are like one step removed from things that I recognize, but which are completely batshit insane. Like this is somebody trying to communicate themselves to me.
01:31:35
Speaker
and has never spoken to another human being before in their lives. That's that's kind of like for me is like the the secret sauce for like a good bad movie. Yeah. To me, a lot of those like bad movies that are good, rarely are they the comedy. Like they're not intended to be. yeah It's usually someone who really like I have something to say ah about this thing I love that or this thing I hate. And like, okay, it was just the execution that they flipped. I'm a lack of cohesive vision. Sure. It's the same words. Like if you go to your local art museum, usually they have an outsider art exhibit and you know, ah outsider art is just like, Oh, art created by people with no formal training. And so it's like, Oh, here is a painting by someone who does not, who's never studied painting who they just wanted to paint something. And it kind of resembles a painting.
01:32:22
Speaker
ah but But, you know, like you see that earnestness, right? And you just go, oh my God, like I see the message that they're coming across, but the the way in which they painted using, you know, ah ah using a hard drive, using a floppy disk hard drive, which is just a thing on my desk over there, ah is is the juxtaposition of what I know this is established to be. And the thing in front of me is beautiful and wonderful. yeah I mean, like we should say, there are good equivalents of that. Like David Lynch is a great example. for Somebody who does that. Well, yes. We're like, you're watching a Lynch thing and it feels like you're watching somebody communicate something that they can't get say in words, but like, but it's, but it's, it's good and it's beautiful and it's clear. And it speaks to you emotionally. It's like, that is not a uniquely bad movie thing, but I do think there is an element of like,
Unique Acting Styles
01:33:05
Speaker
when I'm watching a bad movie, I'm enjoying, it's like this person
01:33:09
Speaker
is trying to say something that really matters to them, but has never interacted with another human being in their life, apparently, like has been raised by computers or something, you know? Exactly. Like a fire cannon at the Sphinx, you know? That's what I'm gonna do. Take the nose off. um and absolutely Absolutely. Joel Rowe. Thank you for the YouTube tip says money, a lull and support for a second rewind. UWU. Thank you, Joel. We appreciate that support. Sir George Lucas say what say if you about Timothy Oliphant as an actor.
01:33:48
Speaker
Not a movie star, but a hell of an actor. A great actor. He seems like he's having fun as well. He seems like he's settled into a bit where he's just enjoying being himself. Because there was a while where he was doing Hitman and stuff, and it seemed like Hollywood was like, is he a movie star? And the answer is definitely no. But it's also like, no, he's just a really cool guy to have in your movie or TV show, which I love. Yeah. He's just like Southern Chris Pine as well. deep fri chris like chrisp fine yeah Justified so one other yes justified Deadwood, you know, like yeah, man wants to be a cowboy. Yeah, once upon a time in Hollywood. Yeah, like
01:34:30
Speaker
but doesn't do thing great yeah He's not the guy who shows up and like puts Leonardo DiCaprio kind of in his place and once upon a time in Hollywood is like, you know, DiCaprio, you're at a date and at a touch. This is what a cowboy actor looks like. um
01:34:43
Speaker
um Absolutely. ah Double finger, thank you for the YouTube tip says, love how David Harbor always just seems happy to be there. Vibes of just a regular dude who happened to walk on set and got away with it. Much like Timothy Oliphant, absolutely. Just show up, have a good time. he's And like so always give more than the movie needs. Like he's like, there was a while where like I hadn't quite clocked who he was around about, I think 2008 ish when he's in like a quantum of solace. And he just, he has like this character in quantum of solace has a mustache and it's an asshole. And I was just like, that is, that is a guy to watch. Was it like the line he has where he's like, yeah, we should only work with good people. And it's like, that is the one line I remember from quantum of solace is when the CIA analyst says the line. Yeah, we should only work with good people. Um,
01:35:29
Speaker
but yeah, no harm results yep he's always a safe harbor in a storm. oh yeah Yeah, he's got, he's got an intensity about him. I think the youngest I've seen him is Aaron Sorkin's the newsroom. ah you where he comes off as very like, Oh, I look angry, but I'm actually a softy, but if you cross him, he's very, I will like, I am bigger than you. I i you will take a bite out of you. He was diehard Santa Claus. Wasn't he in he was diehard Santa Claus? um Oh, I'm trying to remember the name of that movie now. Silent night, I think, or silent like deadly night or something. Yeah.
01:36:04
Speaker
there It was in Hellboy. I haven't seen that one yet. That scares me. Okay, hold on. that I'm just going to say Deadly Night. deadly night is A series of old and actress horror movies. Someone in chat knows. That's not it. but night oh okay just silent yeah no violent fin but yes there it is Sorry my audio cut out for just a second. He was in Gran Turismo as well. yeah Yeah. No, he's he's around. thanks scott I think like that it's it's hard for so you know, like he's definitely like he has a type that he likes to play and I think for that type like kind of that so very subtle wink nod to the audience of like, hey,
01:36:48
Speaker
are we having a good time here? We're having a good time here. Let's save some kids for monsters. He was in a, I'm not going to be anybody's favorite hell boy, but I'll be hell boy. Yeah. you got much he does well Yeah, absolutely. ah Sir George Lucas says, I've heard that Jeremy strong is a weirdo actor. And I don't know if I've seen Jeremy strong in anything. I had to Google he wass in succession. um he's he and He's Roy Cohn in the new Trump. Oh, okay. He's in, he's also, have you so have you seen serenity? Speaking of like bad movies that are secretly great. Have you seen serenity?
01:37:22
Speaker
Maybe not not the Josh Whedon movie. OK, this is the Matthew McConaughey one where he he's a fisherman who's hunting a tuna fish called Justice. And it has one of the most insane. twit There he is like Jeremy Strong plays a character called The Rules in that movie. um And it's just it's it's a bad movie. I want to be clear. But it's also kind of a great movie. um It has one of the most frankly insane twists. To give everyone an idea of how bad a movie this is, it is free to watch on 2B right now. Wow. for and i'm I'm not going to recommend it, but I'm also not not going to recommend it. The thing about Strong, which is interesting, is Strong is um strong is quote unquote at what method actor. Now we should be clear when you say method, it isn't actually the Stanislavski method. The Stanislavski method is the radical idea in the 1950s of pretend that your character has a life outside of what appears in the script. Like that's it. Just close your eyes and imagine what your character is feeling as opposed to what they are saying on the page. That is the Stanislavski method at a very high level, very broad level. And keep in mind, I'm basing this large on the fact that I had a partner who studied drama. So this just kind of soaked in secondhand. I may be wrong, but I think I'm right.
01:38:30
Speaker
But like they used to get really upset when people would talk about like Marlon Brando or Daniel Day-Lewis going method and like getting in character by, I don't know, sawing off their leg or gaining a hundred pounds because that's not what the method is. The method is like, imagine what it would be like to weigh 400 pounds, not weigh 400 pounds. It's a very literal minded. I think like Christian Bale argues that the thing about the method is it, it takes something that, and you know, not to indulge in gendered stereotypes, but Bale argues like men, like you're, you're big, Matt, you don't have, you don't see many female method actors. And it's because like for bail,
01:39:07
Speaker
acting doesn't feel like a very masculine activity. It doesn't feel very macho. It doesn't feel like doing something with your hands. So if you do something like right around in a wheelchair for six months to get into character, or, you know, if you like learn or you shave every hair on your body or something, you feel like you're doing something that is real, quote unquote. And so it feels more authentic to you, like in a macho sense, but too strong, strong as an actor who works like that. And I want to be clear. I think this is a very important distinction to make when we talk about weirdo actors. Cause when we talked about weirdo actors, we were talking about like Jonathan majors, ah Kirk Douglas, um Kevin Spacey, bad people who have done bad things um and who you know can be great actors. I'm you know not going to comment on that.
01:39:49
Speaker
Strong is just, strong has never hurt anybody. Strong has seemingly never caused any real discomfort to anybody. Like the issue is that he's just intense and weird. And like Brian Cox used to be driven up the wall on succession. Like Brian Cox, who was a man who famously has no patience for anyone. I think the great, like he had that biography where he would just like list people that he had grievances with, which was just the best way to write an autobiography where he's like, Good old Michael Caine, great guy, not a great actor, but then again, when in an institution you don't have to be, um, that sort of thing. And Cox was like, has this really withering impression of strong as an actor where it's like, there must be an easier way for him to do this. It does seem like Jeremy puts himself to a lot of pressure to do that. Surely he could just read the scripts. Um, yeah and Lawrence Olivier, my boy, I tried acting.
01:40:41
Speaker
it And i think I think that kind of comes across, if you watch succession, where there is this tension of like the Jeremy strong character being so desperate to prove himself to his father and his father played by Brian Cox, being like, you're trying too hard. It's really off putting and making all of us uncomfortable. but like Strong is interesting because generally speaking, like Strong will give an interview and he will come off sounding, he'll talk about like dramaturgy, for example. He'll talk very actorly, very highfalutin. He really cares about the craft in a way that I think is kind of endearing. I do agree with Brian Cox. There's probably a less stressful way for him to do this, but it's very telling that like generally speaking, when people are interviewed about like Strong, they're very protective of him. Anne Hathaway, for example, is very protective of him.
01:41:25
Speaker
were like, they're very anxious that he will, when they tell stories about him, that he'll be portrayed as quote unquote, a weirdo, or that he'll be portrayed as difficult to work with. Um, and he's not, he's just, he has a process that he follows that he cares very deeply about. And so I kind of, when we talk about strong as a weirdo. I think that is accurate. He is an actor who is very intense and very process driven, but I want to draw a line between that and like what we unfortunately, but perhaps fairly associate with the method, which is Jared Leto sent use condoms to his co-stars, which is horrendous and should not be tolerated and is not cute or funny. You know, so Jeremy strong is that kind of like classic eccentric. We're not talking about criminal weirdos like with these other things. He is just eccentric. He is now what we call eccentric. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. that's I wonder, I wonder what he done to get in a character for the gentlemen with also Matthew McConaughey. I wonder what his process is.
Clint Eastwood's Directing
01:42:22
Speaker
ah Let's see here. CSI Freak. Do you think Clint Eastwood's directing equals his acting? Surely, right? The infamous for just like one cut. That's it. Yeah. He doesn't say action and he doesn't say cut because when he was a cowboy actor, the horses had memorized those lines. Like he'd, work because he horses who work in show business know that when directors yell action, it means time to start horse acting. yeah And like, when they say cut, it's time to stop suddenly. Um, so apparently he's Eastwood's thing is whenever you're ready is like his, what he says instead of action. And when instead of saying cut, he says, that's enough of that now.
01:43:01
Speaker
Uh, which is just great. Like I think Tom Hanks has said it's the most, it's the most disconcerting thing he's ever experienced on a set is Clint Eastwood like staring at him going whenever you're ready. but like and very famously. Yes. He is a one take kind of guy, which it can be very disconcerting to actors who are used to having multiple takes to figure out what they're doing when he'll be like, no, it's in focus. We'll print it and we'll move on. I do think that there's an argument that he's probably, is, is he a better director than an actor? I know he has an act, an acting Oscar for unforgiven, doesn't he? But he has a direct, no, he doesn't. He has a directing Oscar and a best picture Oscar for un forgiven.
01:43:36
Speaker
and also for Million Dollar Baby. I think you could make an argument he's a more consequential and probably better director than he is an actor. It might just be the kinds of films he chooses because everyone's on edge and he makes them on edge. And he's 94. Whenever people... I forgot which actor it was. I said, can I do one more take? And he said, you want to waste everyone's time?
01:44:02
Speaker
right no The story they tell about Eastwood is like, even in the in his 80s, making like The Mule, which is a movie he is also starring in, he would be wrapped by five and would play like a half round of golf afterwards at the age of like 87 or whatever it was, which is just, he's directing juror number two and he's like 92, 93, 94 ish now, which is insane. man stays active i I think in, you know, like accolades aside, zeitgeist, he will, he will always be an actor. Like he, people, when they picture Clint Eastwood, when I still picture Clint Eastwood, he's the cowboy, right? He's the man with no name or whatever. I assume there's a Gran Torino on the way out. yeah I don't, I don't really think Eastwood, you know, American sniper and i felt he's Reagan. I know he's not making Reagan.
01:44:53
Speaker
That's what I'm making, Regan. Eastwood is like and politically Eastwood is very difficult to make sense of because like without getting into spoilers, like, you know, million dollar baby is arguably a pro euthanasia movie. Um, like, you know, dirty Harry. Yeah. Dirty Harry is like a pro vigilante movie, but then like Magnum force is an anti vigilante movie. Unforgiven is like the worst thing I ever did was become a cowboy. Um, like there's a real, like you watch, is it David Sims on like blank check or at the Atlantic? Like I wrote about how like there are two genres of Eastwood movies. The first of which is their railroad name, which is like the classic Richard Jewell or, um, like the changeling or Sully movies. which are like his libertarian, like small government um kind of movies. But the other kind of movies he makes are the, I'm a bad dad. Take me to jail movies ah where he always has a daughter, never a son. Keep in mind Eastwood has two sons, but never Never in these movies is he a bad dad to his sons. It's always his daughters. Like he will make movies where like the he will be a father who is like the best criminal in the world, the best thief in the world, the best drug smuggler in the world, the best coach in the world. yeah
01:46:08
Speaker
the best like racist grandpa in the world, but it will always be like, no, i I failed my children and therefore I deserve to either go to prison or die at the end of this movie, which is just a really fascinating angle for somebody of that age. And you'll ask him, Clint, you make a lot of movies about fathers and daughters. And he's like, do I?
Charismatic Actors
01:46:30
Speaker
I don't think he knows. I think it's like the rock gone. This is my first time at Carl's Jr. And it's like, no, this is your third time. Is it?
01:46:42
Speaker
Absolutely. Uh, let's see here. SBS guru 2000. Thank you for the YouTube tip says other than Japanese teenagers using the power of friendship, which fictional character could actually unalive the canonical Christian God? I think we answered that already. It's a 24. Yeah. Hugh Grant. and he's have hugh grant Well, crazy premise, I love it, where he's like sequesters to, I think Jehovah's Witnesses or something. He's like, I'll let you leave, but you have to pick one of these two doors, belief or disbelief. And then he's like, oh, all right. And now coming to my fantasy faith house. Yes. Yeah.
01:47:17
Speaker
I don't know. I think when Kevin Costner dies, right? He's going to go to heaven and he's going to be like, God, I got some ideas here. And like God is going to give an interview three months later and he's going to say, look, the great thing about Kevin Costner being in charge of heaven is that Kevin Costner gets a God that he believes in and to work with his favorite actor. like i I honestly believe you send Kevin Costner to heaven. He'll be running it in a week, a hundred percent, but he won't care. He won't take the credit. Kevin Costner is the one person who can defeat God, not through his power, but through his a charisma alone, his good communication and nagging and like refusal to let God make the decision that Kevin Costner disagrees with. We love it.
01:48:02
Speaker
Love it. Love it. Uh, let's see
Wachowskis' Film Analysis
01:48:04
Speaker
here. Cleverly dope. Lee, how are you doing buddy? Oh, it's been, it's been an age Lee. We got to get you back on we because we always loved talking to you. I love the show guys. Just want to recommend bound 1996 to anyone who hasn't seen it. One of the Wachowskis best films. Bound is one of those movies where once you find a director you like, you get to go back and see what they did before they broke big. And Bound is like, oh my God, we should have known. I get someone new, right? Because like after that... um at The Matrix. Like Warner Brothers were like, come make The Matrix movie with us.
01:48:39
Speaker
Or didn't they make, uh, assassins in between or was it? They wrote the script for assassins and disowned. That's what it was. yeah yeah to be not The masterpiece that is assassins, mostly known today for the, um, yes. That is the last thing. Legacy of like assassins as a movie. Um, but, uh, a hundred percent agree with you, Lee. Uh, bound is just, it's, it almost feels like a hidden gem. It's all of that. Like proto Wachowski, uh, you know, weirdness and horniness. Oh, it's beautiful. And it's on criteria. Now we've seen got a criterion release. by remember crack Oh, we did it. Um, I think so. And it's great to see. Oh, great to see. Great recommendation. Really great stealth sequel in the second season of Chucky as well.
01:49:25
Speaker
Oh, okay. All right. Yeah. Uh, let's see here. And finally we have double finger who says, wait, so you're telling me method acting is not terrorizing your colleagues by being a weirdo and sending them used condoms and other filth. No, gun me shockingly my partner who studied drama and like theater and acting was understandably upset every time they would hear the words um yeah method acting associated to what they described as like light assault. um Yeah. Yeah. and i Yeah. I think like that's the, you know,
01:50:02
Speaker
That's the one thing where it's like, it depends on the character. like what if You never, it's funny cause you never hear about people like terror, like are going full method when their character is a good guy. yeah yeah i mean was that the joke but like Tom Hanks has been like preparing to play Mr. Rogers for his entire career. So now that he's done it, we should all be, we should all be very aware. Very right. Full method for Mr. Roger.
01:50:30
Speaker
Imagine that they ran you over with a bike because he was method acting. and So you play a priest. What are you doing? But like, that's, that's the thing where it's like, yeah, well how much of this is, you know, like you getting into character and how much of this is you like thinking, Oh, I can get away with the bullshit I want to do now. Justifying being a terrible human being so for your art. Yeah. You know, keep it, keep it in yourself. Like, uh, I want to show that John Lee mentioned Tom Hanks played the Colonel and he was bad. I mean, the Colonel was the lift. It was basically Satan. There's a moment in like bad Lehrman's Elvis where Tom Hanks takes Elvis up the top of a carousel. Like he's Satan tempting Jesus in the desert. But like, I also want to shout the Wachowskis. We mentioned the motive of a cloud Atlas.
01:51:12
Speaker
where like Tom Hanks plays six of the like ugliest human beings you have ever seen. Another great new grant performance as well. Can we not shout out cloud Atlas? What a mess. Okay. Well I put I accepting the yellow face stuff that should never have happened. I am quite fond of cloud Atlas. I have a, but yeah, that never should have happened. Um, yeah. I love the book that it is based off. Also equally a mess. Unadaptable. Unadaptable. A wonderful book. A wonderful romp. Unadaptable. But jeez, what a mess. If we're going to shout out Wachowskis for anything that they deserve, it's Speed Racer all the time. 100%. I love Speed Racer. He was so great. Unappreciated.
01:52:00
Speaker
I'm quite fond of most of them. I think Jupiter ascending is the one I would have difficulty making a case for. Like I love the Wachaskis, but even Jupiter ascending where like Mila Kunis is like, what if a dog was hot Channing Tatum? And I'm like, I don't know if I can go there with you. that oh yeah yeah Well,
Twister's Action and Themes
01:52:18
Speaker
yeah, that's fine. all or ah That's a Jupiter sanding. It's like, what if Channing Tatum was a sexy dog? um Yeah. Um, but, uh, so, it okay, here's my segue. Speed racer is, is wonderful. Kind of Schlocky, uh, you know, the basic action movie, much like twisters, which is sort go back around. yeah
01:52:40
Speaker
Like Twisters is a nice, simple action movie. You know what's going on. They're fighting tornadoes. Ah, what a beautiful movie. What a beautiful movie. It's also slightly like post 9-11 Twisters as well. Like the original Twister is like part of the wave of nineties. ah sir I love that like Frost is like, I'm going to need you to explain that Darren. And I'm like, no, I'm not going to elaborate on that. But like twist the original twister is like that nineties wave of like act of God movies. So like Titanic is like an iceberg. We'll sink us a Dante's peak volcano, deep impact Armageddon, like civilization is going to be destroyed in the nineties. It's going to be destroyed by a natural disaster, you know, tornadoes, acts of God, things we can't control. Right. And what's interesting about twisters is twisters kind of has that where they have this whole big thing of like how it's part religion and part science. And there's a big moment at the end where one character riding into a twister takes their hands off the steering wheel and kind of puts their hands on their knees because they're accepting their fate and destiny, the universal sort of stuff. There are moments where characters pray as the tornado pass over. Like it is something, this movie is very conscious of.
01:53:42
Speaker
But also, this is a movie where Glenn Powell entirely seriously utters the line, and I can shoot missiles at it ah when it comes to a tornado. It's like a movie about like fighting tornadoes. They use military-grade radar to model twisters. like Have a on the phone, it's like, aren't you tired of these twisters coming for the people we love? And it's like, that is a very strange way to talk about weather patterns, Javi, but I accept that you're into it. Javi is of course a former military veteran who has like come back and been radicalized. And like the whole big thing is yes, we can stop, we can preemptively stop twisters. We can like, we can get in there. We have a dossier. It proves that twisters are ready to launch weapons of mass destruction in 30 minutes on civilian populations. And we can preemptively get in there. and deploy these weapons and deal with, we have, we're going to drone strike them at one point. Like they're they're in like watching it. There was something just a little bit like post like 9 11 war on terror. Like, yeah can we take the fight to the twisters at this movie? Like the cowboy way too. Like if you fear it, write it.
01:54:49
Speaker
yeah yeah which Which definitely had sexual like connotations and intonations there. I was very um speaking to the whole Gen Z is tired of sex on screen. This was a very like hot and bothersome film through and through like them together in the truck and then just boom, just a big old tornado over the two of them. What's happening? It's like, yeah you know, you'll be fine. It'll be okay. No kissing. crucially they they cut the yeah No kissing. This would have this would have fit through the ACE code. and while implying that they boned a lot. I was Spielberg who insisted on they cut the kiss, which is interesting. I think it works better that way. I'll be honest with you. Like, obviously, like, you know, we again, there's no spoiling Twisters because if you've ever seen a movie before, you know exactly what's going to happen in Twisters. But, you know, like, I think there's more than one Twister. There's more than one Twister. Another tall or tall Twister.
01:55:45
Speaker
while While I am all for horniness in movies, I think this is a movie that genuinely did not need a make out scene or did not need, you know, like any more horniness to it because it's a, but like at the end of the day, it's about the twisters. all It's about the twisting. And also you've got like, you know, the sexual appeal of like a Kendall in this. that maybe maybe i mean Maybe that's why I'm so into him because I'm not thinking about that part of him. He's not a sexual threat. he's not a sex This is maybe the first time that anybody's described like then pal is not a sexual threat. yeah i think I think I don't know if there's a correlation with like old stars and you know how they get sexualized and whatnot.
01:56:28
Speaker
I feel that less nowadays as well. Like you even the the younger ones at the time, you know, always sexualized in some way or other. Whereas nowadays with Timothy Chalamet, I saw him at a club and he might've been tweaking on cocaine. And I was like, I don't see that in you. You come off as a church boy to me. That's that's wild. Whereas you see old pictures of like, Sarah Jessica Parker and Robert Downey Jr. And they're in a club and you know what's going on in these places, right? And you're like, yeah, this makes sense. I guess. Tweaked out of your mind sweating like crazy. Whereas we have almost like very golden boys coming through.
01:57:01
Speaker
and Like this is the social media. Yeah, image yeah yeah exactly. Like your man you're curating your Instagram. Your image is like you, you are, so you have social media. So you were theoretically closer to these people than you've ever been, but they have like teams of interns whose job it is to make sure that curated image is Christine, as you said, you know, which is interesting. And again, I do think process
Cultural Depictions in Media
01:57:21
Speaker
entirely correct. Like some of that is down to the fact that we know that like bad things have happened on set while filming sex scenes. We're a lot more anxious about sexuality in general in culture. Like me too is a very understandable reaction that we've had. And I do think like the lack of sex on screen is a response to that because it's like, we don't want to remind people of like other famous people having sex in situations that they know we're deeply uncomfortable. So let's just not bring that up. And there is also, I suspect an element of like,
01:57:45
Speaker
It needs to be PG-13 and we need to be able to sell this overseas to foreign markets, which are much more restrictive as well. Like i i think i think it is it yeah like it like a tornado, it's it's a perfect weather system. you know They're multiple factors. All right. We got one more super chat here that we're going to get to, which is Snake in the Garden. Darren, thoughts on the cast of of four thursday thoughts on the cast for Thursday Murder Club? This is the Richard Osman book, which is being adapted by Chris Columbus, which is a very interesting choice. I like Columbus broadly speaking. I don't think he's amazing, but I believe it stars Helen Mirren, Pierce Brosnan, and oh, yeah there it is. There it is right there. And Ben Kingsley as well. I think it's like just great. Just a whole bunch of actors that I think it will be cool to spend time with. And when you're making a murder mystery, that's a large part of the appeal.
01:58:29
Speaker
Like a large part of the appeal of the murder mysteries are going to be spending two hours with these actors. Not sure if you can trust them, not sure if you should trust them. And so having actors who you like and having actors, who you know, are charismatic is a large part of that. So yeah, like yeah Pierce Brosnan, who I am, I'm like, I'm in the tank for Brosnan and I will be part of that is yeah. yeah Like ah but maybe patriotic pride. Um, but I do, I honestly do love process. Have you seen the photos of him at Wimbledon? where he looks more like Bond now than he did in the 1990s, which is insane. you No man should be allowed to be that handsome. yeah I am very, very much looking forward to this. Keep your Glenn Powell's. We got Pierce Brosnan.
01:59:10
Speaker
Counter pitch, right? Imagine Twisters. If the country music starts blaring, the trucks start coming in. We cut the door opens. Cowboy hat emerges out and it's silver Fox Pierce Brosden. Oh, he's not American. Is he doing his French accent from Nomads? Oh no. That is the question. Is he singing ABBA like in Mamma Mia? We can only hope. Cowboy propaganda is what this was. Oh, dang. Through and through. And it's, yeah, because the South, Southern is a state of mind here, absolutely. And they've blended it from all over the place. Luke Combs, who's out here saying, it ain't no love in Oklahoma, from North Carolina, a completely different demographic, completely different styles, but we're just going to blend them all together and appeal to it.
02:00:00
Speaker
But like Lee and the eyes of chung who's the director grew up in Arkansas, right? And that's why the Tyler character who's played by Glenn Powell is from Arkansas. And like to the point of like movie star energy, which we mentioned, like, I think it's notable that like Powell is the second lead of the movie, but the movie is just like flat of the gates. Like here's Daisy Edgar Jones. Here's Anthony Ramos. You know them. You like them. And it's like, just so we're clear when Powell enters, The movie is going to blare country music. We're going to cut to a wide shot. We're going to have the trucks roar in and we're going to declare this guy is like, sure, you've got Daisy. eer She's a she seems like a nice young woman. Anthony Ramos is very charming. You liked him in Hamilton, but like we got a fucking movie star but and he's from Arkansas. like you isaac But again, blaring Oklahoma. This is like if you're want a very Irish movie and you got like the Scottish national anthem playing. It's like back when for the longest time if you see a brown Spanish speaking person, they're just Mexican, you know It's like no. No, there's like there's Puerto Ricans. There's there's Dominican There's so many Spanish speaking countries and that's what can happen Here's this weird blend where being from here being raised around it it It goes through these multiple layers of like this is so inauthentic and then it goes back to being authentic And then in the end, it's like fuck it. We're all American here
02:01:21
Speaker
I love that like there's a level of inauthenticity you can reach where it just kind of doubles back and you're like, fair, fair enough. Yeah. thats yeah is So much, so much of of the South Southern, uh, identity is aesthetic is just raw aesthetic. shepherd It's almost like in civil war, you know, what kind of Southern are you? What kind? And in the end, fuck it. You know, I never thought I'd fight with an elf. Yeah. Yeah. We'll, we'll have a very similar conversation, but on the other side, when we, when we talk about kneecap, Darren, some, you guys know what kneecap is. That's incredible. Okay. By the way. So I saw twisters in my, at at my local art house theater and the, the trailer for kneecap played before. And I was like, Oh, i I'm, I'm down for this patriotic, right? paint the tricolor on my face. It's like, yeah, absolutely. Well, for those who don't know, kneecap is a movie about up just to not to throw that out. Hopefully I'm not bastardizing this based off of the trailer, but kneecap at the heart of it seems to be a movie about preserving the Irish language. But wrapped around wrapped around a ah Belfast hip hop trio. Yes, that is probably where I would lead with. It's an i Irish hip hop trio.
02:02:40
Speaker
ah I love that you make it sound like it's like some sort of prestige-y, like Kenneth Branagh as like black and white drama about the preservation of like Irish culture and heritage. But yes, it is about a hip hop trio from Belfer. But is it about, is it a starring who, Oh, I don't know. I just saw Michael fast bender, which is like the most incredible guests. Cause like kneecap are like, they're, they are a hip hop trio in Ireland, yeah but it's like Michael fast bender is an internationally recognized Irish star. It's like, that is the thing that for Irish audiences was like a huge surprise. It would be like, yeah, yeah. It'd be like Ken Costa turning up an eight mile would be kind of, I guess what you equivalent it would be imagine. Wow.
02:03:22
Speaker
Yeah. All right. ah So that's going to be it for this week's episode of ah the Rewind podcast. Thank you, everybody, ah for joining us. I think this was a lovely discussion, not only on Twisters, but as move on movie stars as general as a as a general reminder, everybody. If you like this kind of thing, ah the best way to make sure it keeps happening is to head over to our patron. and give us money every month. And if you give us enough money every month, you get to read Darren's articles that are ah released almost exclusively on our Patreon. um So that's, by the way, ah one of the best reasons to be a Patreon subscriber of ours is Darren's articles. Oh yeah, there's all of our things. Let's see here, anything else we want to ah not talk about, but just, you know, promote shout out before we wrap up, ah Darren.
02:04:10
Speaker
Not really. um Last week, um the wonderful Omar Ahmed did a fantastic edit on an episode of the backdrop, looking at the boys, which I am very proud of. um I'm always like stunned when I like record a script, give it to to Omar or Jesse or, you know, anybody who's editing it. And it comes back and it is just so much better than it is when it leaves my mouth. Um, it's just a delight. It's wonderful. And, uh, next week there will be one covering, um, the covering Deadpool and Wolverine, but it'll be covering like Disney and its relationship to the Fox IP. And I'm quite excited to, for you guys to see that. So that'll be next week's episode. Wonderful. Wonderful for us. What do you got?
02:04:46
Speaker
I got a Sierra Coltec just come out last Monday. And then speaking of over pretentious over analytic analyzing of just any sort of thing. I had a video on my channel that was that'd be youtube dot.com slash the other for us designing humor and dark souls. How I don't think any of the other souls likes that try to you know, hit in that genre and get the humor down. I think that's that's a very important part of it all. so many fun I never dead solids and I love this. I love the video, like with the particular thing. Yeah, I'm sorry. ah Look at that. It's accessible. And then i' be streaming at 7 p.m. I believe, 7 p.m. CT you with Will. We're going to be finishing up a way out. We are finally making out of prison, I believe. Heck yeah. All right. Well, thanks for coming, everybody. We'll see you next time. Bye.