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Will a new deal with Europe smooth poultrymeat trade? And how will new stocking densities affect supply of British chicken image

Will a new deal with Europe smooth poultrymeat trade? And how will new stocking densities affect supply of British chicken

S1 E2 · The Poultry Network Podcast
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2 Playsin 22 hours

In this episode, Tom Willings and Tom Woolman are joined by Richard Griffiths, Chief Executive of the British Poultry Council (BPC) – the UK trade association for poultry meat producers, including chicken, turkey, duck and goose.

Richard offers insights into his career, which began in mining engineering before he transitioned to the poultry sector nearly two decades ago.

He reflects on how the industry has changed dramatically and why it remains as interesting and vital as ever.

The core discussion focuses on the sanitary and phytosanitary (SPS) law changes announced in May, aimed at easing post-Brexit friction in trade between the UK and the EU.

Richard explains the broader context of food security and how future trade frameworks must serve the long-term goal of feeding the nation reliably and sustainably.

He argues that the UK must build a resilient, fair trading system, and that improved SPS arrangements with the EU are a step in the right direction.

This is essential, not just for the poultry meat trade, but for genetic exports too – an often-overlooked pillar of the UK’s poultry industry.

Some key points discussed:

  • Food security must underpin all future policy decisions. The UK needs a long-term strategy that prioritises domestic production while maintaining productive trade links.
  • Post-Brexit, UK poultry producers have faced five years of disproportionate trade barriers compared to EU exporters. New SPS streamlining could help reverse a 33% drop in exports since 2019.
  • The UK’s poultry sector depends on balancing imports and exports: particularly dark meat exports and breast meat imports, due to consumer preferences.
  • Speed, shelf life and just-in-time supply chains are critical. Friction in trade undermines the viability of fresh meat exports.
  • There’s a growing shift toward “just-in-case” supply chains, building resilience into the system post-COVID, Brexit, and other global shocks.
  • The UK must maintain high animal welfare and environmental standards, but ensure those don't outpace trading partners and put domestic producers at a disadvantage.

The conversation also touches on stocking density reductions in UK broiler production.

While viewed positively as a welfare improvement, the changes have reduced production capacity, raising questions about how the UK balances regulation with affordability and competitiveness in a global market.

Finally, the episode acknowledges the complexity of interlinked challenges — from trade policy to environmental impact — and the need for government to avoid siloed thinking.

As Richard notes, a close relationship with the EU should not be seen as a trade-off, but a strategic necessity for long-term stability.

Transcript

Intro

Podcast Introduction

00:00:16
Tom Willings
Hello and welcome back to another edition of the Poultry Network podcast. My name is Tom Willings. With me, Tom Woolman. Tom?
00:00:24
Tom Woolman
Hello, everyone. Yeah, Tom

Meet Richard Griffiths

00:00:26
Tom Woolman
Warman here. I'm very pleased um this episode to be joined by Richard Griffiths, who is the chief executive of the British Poultry Council. um Now, I'm conscious, Richard, there'll be some people that that that know know of you and know you very well, and there'll be other people that that don't. So I just wondered if you could um just introduce yourself and give a bit about your background and and and what you do currently for the British Poultry Council.
00:00:53
Richard Griffiths
Yeah, thanks Tom and Tom um and thank you for having me on the on the podcast. um
00:00:59
Tom Willings
You're our first guest, Richard. You are you know welcome, heralded as the first guest.
00:01:05
Richard Griffiths
ah the the The pressure to to to set the standard for everything going forward, but no, happy to do that.
00:01:07
Tom Willings
that We're honoured. Yeah.

Establishing a Level Playing Field

00:01:14
Richard Griffiths
Tom, as you said, I'm the Chief Executive of the British Poultry Council. um We're the trade association for the poultry meat side of of the industry in the UK. So what that really means is that we're trying to um establish a level playing field for our members in regulation, in perception, in relationships with government, all of those things that can add value to the sector.
00:01:42
Tom Woolman
um And it's not just chicken, is it? I know we always focus on chicken, don't we, because it's a large part, but but the BBC also also stands up, doesn't it, for for other types of poultry meat?
00:01:52
Richard Griffiths
Of course, poultry across the board. um We've got, as you say, chicken is the the majority of it, but we have turkey, duck and goose as well.
00:02:01
Tom Woolman
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:02:02
Richard Griffiths
Goose at Christmas.
00:02:05
Tom Woolman
Yes, yes. No, I had a goose ah ah a few years ago, so it's probably about time I had one again um for ah for Christmas. um i I also remember, i hope you forgive me, ah ah Richard, but um ah I do remember speaking to you previously. You worked in the quarry sector before you before you came into poultry, didn't you?
00:02:22
Tom Woolman
Yeah.
00:02:23
Richard Griffiths
I did. Yeah, what it's a dim and distant memory now, but my ah my starting point was mining engineering. and
00:02:30
Tom Woolman
Yeah.
00:02:31
Richard Griffiths
So that was my degree and first roles. And then moved into the quarrying trade association. And now, coming up for 20 years ago, made the move over to poultry, frankly, because it seemed quite interesting.
00:02:46
Richard Griffiths
And the fact that I'm still here probably suggests that it it actually is quite interesting.
00:02:52
Tom Willings
And things changing now at a ah crazy, crazy pace.
00:02:55
Tom Woolman
Yeah.
00:02:57
Tom Willings
We've asked you to to join us to um talk a bit more about SPS, so sanitary and fighter sanitary um

Brexit Law Changes and Implications

00:03:04
Tom Willings
law changes. So for for anyone who missed it, I think it was the 19th of May, the government has has announced a degree of streamlining of the the the trade relationships between European Union and and the UK.
00:03:16
Tom Willings
and post Brexit. Richard, our questions to you ah ah really what does that mean in in layman's terms and what does it mean for the farmer on the ground?
00:03:27
Richard Griffiths
um I'll kick off then with with, because that's a huge subject. um And I apologize up front because I'm going to do the the politicians answer ah and answer a different question first, because I think it's really important on this subject to set the context of this, because so you get so many different views on the on the specifics of our relationship with the EU.
00:03:44
Tom Willings
Go ahead.
00:03:50
Richard Griffiths
But look at the bigger picture. I think everybody who's who's going to be interested in this podcast has got look at the bigger picture.

Food Security Challenges

00:03:57
Richard Griffiths
And the bigger picture is food security. We're looking at how we feed our country over the next 10, 20, 30 years and what we need to be able to achieve that.
00:04:11
Richard Griffiths
So everything that we do now coming out of this really difficult period, Brexit, COVID, all the other global challenges, we have to decide how we're going to feed our country.
00:04:23
Richard Griffiths
So that's where our starting point should be, whether it's us as industry or you're in the government saying, what do we need to do? How do we how do we support industry?

UK-EU Business Relations

00:04:34
Richard Griffiths
But that is why close relationship with Europe and this announcement on the SPS agreement and the and the negotiations that will happen are so important because Europe remains our biggest, not just trading partner,
00:04:42
Tom Woolman
Thank you.
00:04:49
Richard Griffiths
but closest ally and closest relationship. So we want the best relationship with them we possibly can do, which in turn generates that viable and profitable businesses, which we absolutely need in this country for the long

Post-Brexit Trade Challenges

00:05:06
Richard Griffiths
term.
00:05:07
Tom Woolman
Yeah, because you you you started talking off, Richard, didn't you, about having a level playing field? And certainly what I know about about the SBS arrangements ah immediately post-Brexit was that there wasn't a level playing field, was there? There were all sorts of onerous checks for our produce going to Europe, but actually we weren't reciprocating those checks for produce coming into the UK. So actually it was far easier for people to to export from Europe into the UK than it than it was vice versa.
00:05:34
Richard Griffiths
ah we've We've had, what, five more years of really onerous added burdens to our businesses. we we were We had to clear those hurdles at day one.
00:05:49
Richard Griffiths
So we were in a position where, look, but so the hammer's dropping so end the 31st of December and you have to comply 1st of January.
00:06:01
Tom Willings
so So government figures say exports down, I don't this is not a poultry meat statistic, but but a general overall market statistic, exports down since 2019 by a third, 33%.
00:06:13
Tom Willings
I guess this regulation is about reversing that trend. So on the face of it, it should be good news for UK farmers. Yeah.
00:06:20
Richard Griffiths
it should be um and poultry and when I say poultry trade what talking about it's both meat and genetics so breeding stock as well really important to to remember that ah poultry has those two elements and the UK is really strong in both so we've got the
00:06:32
Tom Willings
Yeah.
00:06:41
Richard Griffiths
They have slightly different requirements and problems, but part of the whole sector. um Poultry as a whole has dropped by about a third.

Poultry Trade Balance Discussion

00:06:51
Richard Griffiths
It is around that 30% export market. And we've got to remember that we we have to trade. At our heart, we've had we've had decades of preferring breast meat.
00:07:05
Richard Griffiths
So we are... conditions to that. So as a result, we do need to trade, particularly with dark meat exports and import more breast meat. So we need that balance of trade.
00:07:17
Tom Willings
Yeah.
00:07:17
Richard Griffiths
And the um i think I think people have got got fed up with the idea of frictionless trade or no friction, but it's absolutely right. you You have to reduce the friction in that trading process both ways.
00:07:32
Tom Woolman
Well, particularly when you're when you're dealing with something like ah you know meat fresh meat that actually, yeah, it's it's important, isn't it, that it gets from its source to ah to its consumer as quickly as possible um with as as good a shelf life as possible.
00:07:32
Richard Griffiths
And it has to.
00:07:47
Tom Woolman
and
00:07:47
Richard Griffiths
Well, that's it. We've been banging on for years about just-in-time supply chains, not just us, but all the fresh produce suppliers and producers.

Supply Chain Strategies

00:07:57
Richard Griffiths
And that never seems to quite land as as how important it really is.
00:08:05
Richard Griffiths
The food chain, food supply chain has always got by. regardless of the problems it's faced. it's never It's never fallen over. There's never been a catastrophic failure.
00:08:16
Richard Griffiths
And so I think that lets government sort of in in sort government minds go, oh, they'll be okay.
00:08:22
Tom Woolman
Well, they they had they called it they call it the leave it to Tesco's um strategy for many years.
00:08:26
Richard Griffiths
yeah and how Yeah, and hope that the market takes takes care of it.
00:08:27
Tom Woolman
They'll sort it out, yeah.
00:08:31
Richard Griffiths
um But more and more, we're seeing that that The market for all its all benefits and all its advantages generally works at a top-down form, a trickle-down.
00:08:43
Richard Griffiths
Hope that that standards are really come in at the top and sort of the benefits fall down the system. what we're really What we're seeing now more of an emergence of and slight move away from a just-in-time supply chain to a just-in-case supply chain.

Building Resilient Systems

00:09:03
Richard Griffiths
So all the challenges we're facing, we have to build that resilience into our systems that give a bottom up approach. The phrase rising tide lifts all boats.
00:09:16
Richard Griffiths
So we have to put things in place now that lifts everybody. We talk about standards, but it's how we trade. It's our relationship with food. It's it's issues like welfare or avian influenza or environmental impact.
00:09:31
Richard Griffiths
How do we lift everybody? and make resilient system. um but And the EU relationship is a key part of that.
00:09:38
Tom Woolman
Okay. like I just,
00:09:39
Tom Willings
That's back to your back to your food security point, really. but
00:09:43
Richard Griffiths
Yeah, absolutely.
00:09:43
Tom Willings
ah I was going to ask a question, Richard, if you if I may. When SPS was first covered a a week or so ago in the in the news, there was some concern to do with either hindering future trade deals with with other nations, or um I think the term they used was sort of surrendering control to influence by European Court of Justice and the dynamic changes.
00:10:09
Tom Willings
What would your position be on that?
00:10:11
Richard Griffiths
but I think taking the second point first, i think I think we've never deviated from the standards and regulations because of this, the and in anticipation of this very move.
00:10:23
Richard Griffiths
we've We've kept those standards the same as close as possible. So i think the the benefits of a close relationship with the EU and the trading benefits and the efficiencies and the profitability that that brings into our system,
00:10:41
Richard Griffiths
far outweighs any woolly concerns about losing control law or affecting other future trade deals. that's That's sort of saying, look, ah sorry, i ah don't want I don't want a relationship with you because I want to play the field. No, we're we're we not worried ah we in a situation where of where we've been we food as a whole has been battered for years.
00:11:05
Richard Griffiths
It's still standing, but we' we've had a tough time. So now we need some consistency. and certainty in our systems.
00:11:14
Tom Woolman
I wanted to talk a little bit, Richard, if I may, about some of the dynamics in the in the in the broiler sector at the moment, where um the majority of retail has downstocked their supply chain to 30 kilos a metre squared, which has which has put a little bit of a squeeze on um housing stocks and on resources and being able to produce you know the same number of birds. But obviously, we need more space to

Pressure on UK Farmers

00:11:39
Tom Woolman
do that.
00:11:40
Tom Woolman
um when when i Where do you um sort of balance the risk and reward when you're looking at international trade and food security? and um And I guess from a government point of view, they want to make sure that if we can't produce the food here, that we can that we can import the deficit, you know, and and and keep food prices where they need to be.
00:12:00
Tom Woolman
um Is there a risk that that potentially as we as we start to open up trade with Europe that... um that actually puts more pressure on um on on the returns that some some UK farmers are getting.
00:12:15
Richard Griffiths
The pressure is always there. That's nothing new I think everybody will recognize that that it goes in peaks and troughs, maybe. Maybe that's the right description, but the the pressure is all always there.
00:12:26
Richard Griffiths
um I think what we lack in this country at the moment, and um I'm going to sort of travel optimistically in terms of like a food strategy and then what government's going to do, but what we lack is that vision of what we want to achieve.

Vision for UK Food Production

00:12:46
Richard Griffiths
We've got no, we as producers, and whether that's any part of the chain, whether that's the sort of manufacturers or the farmers, the entire chain, we've got no guiding light, as it were. Yes, we yeah we want to feed the name, but the government needs to come in and say, look, our ambition is we want to be self-sufficient, or no developed country should have people going hungry.
00:13:11
Richard Griffiths
So that's our aim. something that all food can get behind and therefore all policy and regulation can then follow in. the Reducing the stocking density is ah is a fantastic example.

Impact of Retail Downstocking

00:13:26
Richard Griffiths
So good and bad, because on the good side, it's meant that what people have had, producers have had really valuable conversations throughout supply chain with their customers, with government, with in in the footor food environment and said, look,
00:13:43
Richard Griffiths
We want a 10-year plan. to to We're moving in this direction. Welfare is important to us. This is the direction and we're willing to invest in it. The downside is, I think, as you're suggesting, Tom, is are we moving too fast?
00:14:00
Richard Griffiths
Are we outpacing other, our trading partners, for example, that then allows for discrepancies and um our market being undermined?
00:14:12
Richard Griffiths
Yes, there's that risk. But I think we have to take it. And I think the industry recognizes if we want long term viability, we have to make these big steps forward.
00:14:26
Tom Woolman
Good.
00:14:30
Tom Willings
I was going to jump in there and say that sounds like a whole nother topic for a whole nother kind of bite size episode in terms of food security and that tension between you know the opportunity that absolutely exists for poultry to feed not only our nation, but our continent and and and the world as a global industry with efficient and healthy um ah animal protein produced sympathetically.
00:14:30
Tom Woolman
good
00:14:57
Tom Willings
um but set against that need with you know changing ambitions from a consumer point of view, changing perceptions from from ah
00:15:09
Tom Willings
greater environmental concern and and and regulation. And you know any change comes with a great deal of hard work. But how we and we balance that has got to be a subject for, for I think, ah another topic. Richard, we'll have to get you back on if you're if you'll if you'll join us again.
00:15:26
Richard Griffiths
Well, I apologize for the sort of the scope of this, but once you get into these subjects, everything's

Government's Approach to EU Relations

00:15:32
Richard Griffiths
connected.
00:15:33
Tom Willings
Yeah.
00:15:33
Richard Griffiths
And that's one of our, that is actually one of our key challenges, particularly with government.
00:15:33
Tom Willings
Yeah.
00:15:38
Richard Griffiths
Government often operates in silos. You do this bit over here and that bit over there. um And we've got to get past that because what you do with with our relationship with the EU has a direct and material impact on how we,
00:15:46
Tom Willings
yeah
00:15:54
Richard Griffiths
our environmental performance, our welfare pathway, all these other elements. So yeah, i I agree with you. that these you could You could do a series of these podcasts on various subjects, but this is what I think the EU is really important.
00:16:09
Tom Willings
We'll put your name down.
00:16:12
Tom Willings
Yeah.
00:16:14
Tom Woolman
No. Well, thanks ever so much for yeah for for joining us, Richard. It's been a ah pleasure talking to you.
00:16:20
Richard Griffiths
Thank you.
00:16:20
Tom Willings
Thank you very much. Thank you also for for for listening. And we will be back very soon with with another episode. So yeah, watch out for that. But for the meantime, that's it from us. Thank you.
00:16:32
Tom Woolman
Bye-bye.

Outro