Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
#410 Prussian Blue is amazing
1.6k Plays15 hours ago
TOPICS:
- Prussian blue is amazing.
- Bambu H2D 3d printer
- Calibrating a 5 axis machine
- Hand scraping deep dive
- Tormach 1500 MX
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Weekly Shop Life
00:00:01
John S
Good morning, welcome to the Business of Machining, episode 410. My name is John Saunders.
00:00:06
johngrimsmo
And my name is John Grimsmo.
00:00:08
John S
And John and i just talk each week about life in our shops. Yeah. What's on your mind?
Understanding Prussian Blue in Machining
00:00:16
johngrimsmo
First thing, i want to thank you for telling me about Prussian Blue, Engineers Blue, and like explaining it to me properly because I've been missing this. I knew about DICAM. I used it a little bit. Didn't use it much.
00:00:30
johngrimsmo
And then I did some research, watched some videos, read a bunch of articles, and like ah tried to understand what what is the difference, what you know what am i missing?
00:00:36
John S
Yeah.
00:00:38
johngrimsmo
Because I was wrong. um Dicam is a layout fluid, so it dries on a surface, and then you can scribe lines.
00:00:44
John S
yeah
00:00:45
johngrimsmo
It has some other benefits, but basically that's what it's for, right? Whereas Engineers Blue or Prussian Blue or whatever is a grease-based liquid. It does not dry. It stays you know, liquid, um and it's a transfer fluid. So you put it on one flat part, rub another flat part on it, and you'll reveal the high spots.
00:01:04
johngrimsmo
Or you put it on a Cat40 taper, you put it in your spindle, it'll show where it's contacting. um Tons of good uses.
00:01:10
John S
Don't do that unless you know what you're doing.
00:01:11
johngrimsmo
Yeah, unless you're willing to clean it off and know what you're doing and all that stuff. But it's a good visual, right? um So I bought a tube, had it the next day after the podcast,
Application of Prussian Blue on Knife Components
00:01:22
johngrimsmo
$13.
00:01:22
johngrimsmo
It's a Permatex, you know, Prussian blue.
00:01:24
John S
Yep.
00:01:26
johngrimsmo
and started putting it, i don't want to say all over the fjall, but in in certain areas. So the first thing I did, I mean, the button is ah teeny tiny. um So I put it on the locking face of the button.
00:01:37
John S
Not the pivot. Sorry, you held that up quickly. Not the pivot, but the...
00:01:39
johngrimsmo
Yeah, sorry. the The button beside the pivot.
00:01:42
John S
Oh, okay. Yeah, maybe two, three, three millimeters.
00:01:43
johngrimsmo
And that's the, yeah, I think the head is about, what is the head?
00:01:44
John S
16, three 16s.
00:01:50
johngrimsmo
280? I can't remember. um Inch. And the the shaft, though, is 1.35, 0.135 inch. um So I put it on, used a little toothpick, and I put some on the um on the locking feature and the detent feature.
00:02:05
johngrimsmo
But as you slide it into the hole, it kind of squidges into places. And then as you rotate the knife around, it sort of contacts areas that I didn't expect it to contact.
00:02:16
johngrimsmo
So kind of, you know, proverbially got everywhere, um even though used as little as possible.
00:02:22
John S
Yeah.
00:02:22
johngrimsmo
But, and then that taught me a couple lessons, like less is more, like as you told me, like way less is more.
00:02:30
John S
Yeah.
00:02:30
johngrimsmo
And I actually need a way to like squeegee it on or something, you know, something really thin. So I thought Q-tip might work um because you don't want to dab it on with a toothpick like I was doing.
00:02:36
John S
Oh.
00:02:42
johngrimsmo
You want thin, otherwise it'll expand into areas you don't want. Kind of the thinner the better so that when it contacts in a specific area, you see the transfer. You don't see it just would squidge, you know.
00:02:53
John S
Right. Right.
00:02:55
johngrimsmo
And these are such tidy features that it squidges pretty far pretty fast comparatively.
00:03:01
John S
You almost want to 3D print a, sorry, I'm talking a lot here. You almost want to 3D print an applicator that is the negative of the shape and then put the thing into that.
00:03:08
johngrimsmo
Maybe.
00:03:09
John S
Cause you're right. you You, you need so little and anytime you apply it, it's going to be too much period.
00:03:10
johngrimsmo
That's a good point.
00:03:13
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:03:15
John S
So yeah. Yeah. Go ahead.
00:03:17
johngrimsmo
Yeah, so a Q-tip seemed to work pretty well because I can wipe, you know, wipe it away.
00:03:22
John S
Mm-hmm.
00:03:23
johngrimsmo
So dab the Q-tip into the blue and then kind of wipe it and just wipe until I can kind of see that the surface is blue but not goopy. um And that started to really reveal some some truths that I've been wondering about.
Improving Detent Mechanics and CAD Adjustments
00:03:35
John S
couple truth bombs hit you.
00:03:36
johngrimsmo
Yeah, exactly. Especially with our microscope, we can magnify it so much. Yeah.
00:03:41
John S
Can add one thing?
00:03:42
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:03:43
John S
So what you were saying about Dikem layout fluid, which is kind of like liquid marker, liquid Sharpie, and it dries versus Prussian blue, which doesn't dry and is a grease.
00:03:48
johngrimsmo
yep
00:03:52
John S
The other big difference is that Dikem is more or less either on the part or wiped off. Whereas the Prussian blue very very much has gradients of of how rich and deep the blue is, which helps you understand how thick the feature is.
00:04:02
johngrimsmo
True.
00:04:06
johngrimsmo
Absolutely true. Yeah, i can I can see that now that I've used it a little bit. um And you can see where it... So you have two features that don't mate perfectly. You can see the thinnest spot where it contacts the most and then it gradients out into the contact area.
00:04:21
johngrimsmo
um So yeah, it started to reveal some truths. And um i thought of, I have a good visual that um maybe I can verbally explain this on the podcast, but imagine if you had a bowl, like a cereal bowl,
00:04:35
John S
Yep.
00:04:36
johngrimsmo
And that is our detent on this this blade.
00:04:39
John S
OK.
00:04:39
johngrimsmo
That's what closes the knife, keeps it closed. the Same thing on our Norseman Arask. It's a detent ball that's flattened on the top.
00:04:45
John S
OK.
00:04:46
johngrimsmo
So the bottom of a cereal bowl is our detent. As that springs into a pocket, that keeps the knife shut. And kind of similar on the open side, when that springs into the tapered seat, it locks the knife open.
00:04:59
John S
Yep.
00:04:59
johngrimsmo
But it is there's a radius on it. There's a flat bottom. And then on our fail button, there's a taper. above the cereal bowl.
00:05:07
John S
Yeah.
00:05:08
johngrimsmo
um So when it's hooked into the detent side, I learned this lesson about two weeks ago, and it turns out the exact same thing was happening on the lock side. So when the cereal bowl, the detent is hooked into the two sides of the blade that keep the knife closed, the detent side,
00:05:27
johngrimsmo
My math was wrong. My arcs for how they're cupping onto the detent, the cereal bowl, um were bigger than reality. So the bowl was hitting in the corners, not cupping.
00:05:38
John S
Oh, sure. Tangentially contact point or whatever.
00:05:41
johngrimsmo
Yeah, exactly. And ever so slight, but enough to make a difference. So when you have these two points of contact, a lot of energy and a lot of force is put on those two points.
00:05:51
John S
Sure.
00:05:52
johngrimsmo
causing a high amount of load, causing deformation of the surface of the button, causing it to dig in. um Even if it doesn't dent the surface permanently, it will dig into the surface of the button. And that's why our detent was kind of weird.
00:06:06
johngrimsmo
Some of them were like too hard to open and we couldn't figure out why. So once I got that, the radii of the detent part of the blade cupping the D10 properly, um everything changed on the D10 side. And I was like, oh, okay. That's because now I'm spreading the load across these
00:06:23
John S
Sure. Huh.
00:06:23
johngrimsmo
perfect radii. um It requires some quite tight tolerances in you know tool diameter, tool life, touching off, all that stuff. But doing it, no problem, now that I've got it right.
00:06:37
johngrimsmo
And then turns out the exact same thing was happening on the lock side.
Design Corrections for Knife Functionality
00:06:41
johngrimsmo
These two tapered features um were mostly hitting on the tangential-like points because the radius of my taper was theoretically bigger than it should have been.
00:06:53
John S
Like in CAD or just the machining?
00:06:53
johngrimsmo
um in cad yeah yeah and and the designer error kind of thing but it's the difference between you know on cad and reality and is the machining doing exactly what you think it's doing is the design design properly and because you have a tapered button that can go deeper or shallower depending on what size stop in i put in it um
00:06:55
John S
Oh, okay. So up operator error. yeah Yeah, right, right.
00:07:08
John S
Yeah, sure.
00:07:20
johngrimsmo
everything changes depending on how deep the button goes into that taper. So I have to basically settle on a number, which I can now measure.
00:07:28
John S
Okay.
00:07:29
johngrimsmo
And the is that the button needs to stick above the blade 60 thou. um On this one, i actually created a little viewing hole window.
00:07:37
John S
Oh, that's awesome.
00:07:38
johngrimsmo
where I can see the spring, I can see half the button, and I can stick an electronic indicator into that hole. I can measure the end of the button and I can measure the blade and see what that gap is.
00:07:45
John S
Yep.
00:07:47
johngrimsmo
So established 60 thou and 6 tenths is my ideal perfect. Put that into CAD, measured my radii of what the lock angle radius should be, and that changed it quite a bit.
00:08:01
John S
Interesting.
00:08:01
johngrimsmo
And then i I go back and I do that. um Then I made another one. And then I also wrote a probing routine on the Speedio where it puts the probe into the hole and touches the side of the lock taper, which is supposed to be a, think I had a three and a half degree taper at this side, but around a circle, like a cone.
00:08:19
John S
Yeah, that's what we talked about last week, so it's just the different
3D Printing Challenges and Solutions
00:08:21
John S
angles. Yeah.
00:08:21
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it's it's like a cone, right?
00:08:21
John S
Yep.
00:08:23
johngrimsmo
um put the probe in there, touch, log the result, deep print the result, step up two thou, touch up two thou, touch up two thou, and deep print every result.
00:08:29
John S
yeah
00:08:31
johngrimsmo
think there were like, I don't know, 50 plus points.
00:08:34
John S
Yeah.
00:08:35
johngrimsmo
And then I dragged those into Google Sheets, made a chart of the numbers, and I could literally see your taper and the lead out and the down.
00:08:37
John S
Yeah.
00:08:43
johngrimsmo
And then I picked the two numbers I want, and it's this perfect straight line.
00:08:43
John S
Whew.
00:08:46
johngrimsmo
Put those two numbers into Fusion, and I could literally calculate my angle of reality.
00:08:46
John S
Good.
00:08:51
John S
Which matched the three and a half of it.
00:08:52
johngrimsmo
which absolutely matched what what CAD was, which is good.
00:08:54
John S
Good. Yeah, yeah.
00:08:55
johngrimsmo
It means the Speedio is doing 100% exactly the taper angle to within literally millionths of...
00:09:01
John S
or at least if it's failing, it's failing equally elegantly on the cutting and probing.
00:09:08
johngrimsmo
Exactly, exactly. So whatever. I mean, i could I could put on the CMM and do the same thing and have like the ultimate, but who cares? um So all these things start to come together. The taper is doing exactly what I think it is.
00:09:20
johngrimsmo
um The surface finish is great because I'm doing that really good. I'm using a ball mill, not a corner radius now. and And get those radius size to cup the button perfectly, not be too big.
00:09:32
John S
Okay.
00:09:34
johngrimsmo
Otherwise you get that point contact.
00:09:36
John S
Right. Yeah, i was going to ask you my question.
00:09:37
johngrimsmo
I
00:09:38
John S
It's make sure you want to fail. you want mean, it's and it may not be great to fail either way, but which there's probably a preferred way to fail here.
00:09:43
johngrimsmo
agree. Yeah, and that's, I'm wondering, looking under the microscope, going, do I want to fail bigger? Do want to fail smaller? um But they were, you know, a thousandths of an inch bigger than what they should have been, ah design-wise.
00:09:57
johngrimsmo
And that caused, you know, high point contact load. It's not distributed across this surface that I think it is, so it's not cupping the button properly.
00:10:05
John S
Right.
00:10:06
johngrimsmo
um And that caused lockstick, and that caused, you know, some grittiness, depending on And then once I machined all the next one, it goes together and I'm like, holy cow, this is absolutely perfect.
00:10:17
John S
Really? Oh, John, that's awesome.
00:10:20
johngrimsmo
And there's no more lockstick. There's like, let's call it 2% lockstick, whereas before there was a lot, you know, ah annoying.
00:10:25
John S
yeah
00:10:27
johngrimsmo
um
00:10:27
John S
Yeah. 2% meaning if you flip it 100 times twice a block stick or you mean like.
00:10:31
johngrimsmo
But not badly, just like a tiny little, if you can hear it.
00:10:34
John S
OK. Sorry.
00:10:36
johngrimsmo
I don't
00:10:37
John S
Yeah.
00:10:37
johngrimsmo
It's fine. But it's just, it's it's not annoying anymore.
00:10:41
John S
Okay.
00:10:41
johngrimsmo
um And then the question is, do I want matching tapers on the button and the blade?
00:10:45
John S
Yeah.
00:10:46
johngrimsmo
Now that I know what the button is in reality, because I don't want to make more buttons, um it's 3.4 degrees per side. I made the blade to also 3.4 degrees, so they match.
00:10:56
John S
Okay.
00:10:56
johngrimsmo
Just to see. And it's perfect.
00:11:00
John S
John and.
00:11:00
johngrimsmo
It perfect. And then I used the blue, ah the Prussian blue to do it again.
00:11:03
John S
Oh yeah. okay
00:11:05
johngrimsmo
Full contact. um Perfect. And then I also activated a bunch and kind of like tried to scratch the surfaces together to actually create visible scratches under the microscope just to like really see if it's wearing in across the surface. And yeah, I was able to see really good even contact around the everything. It's just like, man, when it's right, it's right.
00:11:28
John S
Yeah, oh which is great. Like, when you did all this just from the blue, or was there other, you kind of lost me on how you got, made so much progress in six days.
00:11:29
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:11:37
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it was just a string of events. The blue kind of proved a theory because I was wondering if the points were wearing more. um
00:11:46
John S
Okay.
00:11:46
johngrimsmo
But these are all hardened 60 Rockwell parts. Like they don't wear much, you know.
00:11:50
John S
That quickly. Yeah, right. That quickly.
00:11:51
johngrimsmo
um So I couldn't really tell. But the blue started to point me in the right direction and started to validate some of my theories and led me to realize these things.
00:12:03
johngrimsmo
And it's working.
00:12:05
John S
the So the biggest change was just CAD dimensioning.
00:12:05
johngrimsmo
cool.
00:12:09
johngrimsmo
Yes.
00:12:09
John S
Okay, awesome.
00:12:10
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:12:10
John S
That's great.
00:12:10
johngrimsmo
That's what, that's what was wrong. Or you can't think of everything. And you know, sometimes you have to just make parts and then stress about it for weeks until it's like, starts to make sense.
00:12:18
John S
Yeah.
00:12:21
johngrimsmo
And it's all finally starting to make sense. And that's what I both love and hate. Most of love about manufacturing is when something's not working, you, it's It's because of something. We're just not smart enough yet to know what the thing is. like
00:12:35
John S
right
00:12:36
johngrimsmo
Everything about manufacturing is relatively binary. like Something is happening. Thermal, you know tools not sharp, touched off wrong, bad material. like It's always something.
00:12:48
johngrimsmo
um There's a hundred variables to go through to find out what that thing is, but that's also kind of what I love about it.
00:12:55
John S
Yes, it's great to talk about it on the backside of the journey.
00:13:00
johngrimsmo
Yes, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, so i'm kind of pumped.
00:13:02
John S
Yes.
00:13:03
johngrimsmo
i'm I'm pretty psyched about not only having a solution, but understanding that my solution is now correct.
00:13:10
John S
100%. You're right. right you yeah You have a little swagger in your step right now.
00:13:11
johngrimsmo
And I like that. Yeah, yeah, I'm feeling pretty good.
00:13:14
John S
I like it. Good.
00:13:16
johngrimsmo
um
00:13:17
John S
Good.
00:13:18
johngrimsmo
So, yeah.
00:13:20
John S
Awesome.
00:13:20
johngrimsmo
That's great.
00:13:21
John S
Good. I'm glad to hear that. Can you talk a little bit? I made the note last week. Current kinematics, current calibration, both for you and your machine, but also what you learned in general talking to the guys.
00:13:34
John S
I just want to be ears sponge. Okay.
00:13:37
johngrimsmo
I'm going to pull up my notes just because I uh here we go ah wrote notes yep got it
00:13:40
John S
yeah While you pull up your notes, I'll ramble for a second, which is that I'm... I'm just staring across my office at the bamboo. It happens to be the new H2D, which I'm not even sure that that matters that it's the new one, but a acquaintance friend guy from named Justin from Holster company called Tolster reached out and he's like, hey, we couldn't get one yet.
00:14:02
John S
don't if they just missed out on the sale or the orders, but he's like, would you mind running a print for us? I'm like, dude, awesome guys, bought our stuff. I'm like, yeah, happy to. And so he sent us a roll of the PPSCF, which...
00:14:16
johngrimsmo
Is that the fancy $100 roll, $200 roll?
00:14:16
John S
I don't know.
00:14:18
johngrimsmo
two hundred dollars i saw video, put up a video on
00:14:18
John S
Ends up it is. I didn't realize it. um
00:14:23
John S
I should probably watch that to put my best foot forward. But, um, I just, I printed a test print of his mold in PLA just to make sure a cheap and easy done.
00:14:35
John S
I just, second I just made a small section.
00:14:35
johngrimsmo
yep
00:14:37
John S
Obviously the reason he wants this on the HD is it's larger, but, um, the film arrived two hours ago and i just threw it in the, it doesn't go in the MS. It has to go on the side carrier. So threw in there and sliced it and hit print.
00:14:48
John S
And then it didn't do anything for 20 minutes. Like what's going on? And then it's heating the whole, uh, internal printer box to like 65 C. So it's um yeah, I'm kind of curious to see, I can't really see it from my office to see if it's extruding well or not, but ah we'll see kind of fun.
00:15:04
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Is it a big long print?
00:15:08
John S
So I'm doing another three hour test section to make sure it goes okay. And then the mold itself was 23 hours. There we go.
00:15:16
johngrimsmo
Wow.
00:15:17
John S
Okay.
00:15:18
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yeah. On Klaus video, he did a lot of, um, um, A-B b testing kind of thing, like dried the filament one way, did it this way, annealed the part, did different layer lines, did strength pull testing and all this stuff.
00:15:31
John S
OK.
00:15:33
johngrimsmo
So depending on what result you're looking for. Yeah, he had a really good breakdown of it.
00:15:39
John S
The other thing I'll add, and then I'll go back to the current is, um, I, but you know, for sure wholeheartedly love the H2D. this We wanted the size for, uh, some Johnny five parts.
00:15:50
John S
I bought a second AMS that we can have four rolls on one AMS, four rolls, another plus the side roll, nine total rolls, which is not about being gluttonous. It's just about having all my primaries with backups and then a couple of your swing filaments, if you will.
00:16:00
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:16:03
John S
um The thing I want, I'm lazy because I want somebody else to do a concise job on YouTube explaining this is slicing stinks right now. Like explaining the, you can't put any just, let's say you've got nine filaments.
00:16:17
John S
Well, because we have the second AMS. Let's assume you only have one AMS. You have five filament rolls. You cannot route. any of the five rolls to either the left or right nozzle. it's There's a hardwired setup to it.
00:16:28
John S
And it's just a little bit frankly, it's a bit more cumbersome. The beauty of the bamboos for the Carbon series was that they just worked. There wasn't confusion, settings, questioning.
00:16:38
johngrimsmo
b Yeah.
00:16:38
John S
And the H2D is kind of lacking that combined with... the maximized build volume, because you have two heads, the left nozzle can get further left. The right nozzle can't get all the way to the left.
00:16:51
John S
So if you wanted to maximize the build volume, you have to do duplicate filaments in the left and right. And you actually be printing with the two different nozzles to get all the way left and all the way right, which isn't a big deal, except it's kind of like, oh, a here.
00:17:00
johngrimsmo
Huh.
00:17:04
John S
Now I need to think, especially since the beauty the
00:17:06
johngrimsmo
how do you slice that?
00:17:08
John S
Well, yeah yeah, exactly. How do you slice it? But then also, um the thing I love about the bamboo is I don't, you just don't worry about being at the shop when want to print something to it. um Now you've got to be physically present if you need to reroute filaments or um all that.
00:17:21
John S
So by no means am I like disappointed. It's more just, oh, now I have to think and figure this out.
00:17:26
johngrimsmo
It got more complicated.
00:17:28
John S
It did, yeah.
00:17:28
johngrimsmo
yeah Yeah, more features, more complication.
00:17:29
John S
So that's all.
00:17:31
johngrimsmo
That's interesting.
00:17:34
johngrimsmo
Hmm.
Kern Machine Calibration Process
00:17:36
John S
Okay, Kern.
00:17:37
johngrimsmo
Okay, current calibration. So in the context of a current, you have a I don't know the fancy words, trunnion based machine, you know, B rotates left, to right so tilt.
00:17:47
John S
Yep, soy ball.
00:17:49
johngrimsmo
And then C is your rotational axis. There's no A axis on this machine. um
00:17:57
johngrimsmo
If something needs to be calibrated, you have your kinematic calibration. You have the laser that needs to be calibrated. You have your touch probe that needs to be calibrated. You have all of your tools that get touched off.
00:18:06
John S
Right, that's what was, the order of these.
00:18:07
johngrimsmo
if yeah If any of those is out of sync, you kind of really should attack it in a very specific way and do this gauntlet of checks to make sure everything is is happy with each other.
00:18:20
johngrimsmo
Ideally, not invalidating all of the 210 tools that have already been touched off previously.
00:18:23
John S
Oh my god. Right.
00:18:27
johngrimsmo
um Thankfully, the current is very thermally stable. And whenever I do a kinematic calibration, it remembers the results and it prints them all to the same text file.
00:18:36
John S
Okay.
00:18:36
johngrimsmo
So I could look back for the past five years and I can see every calibration um and it shows the deviation from before.
00:18:40
John S
Oh, interesting.
00:18:42
johngrimsmo
And usually it's microns. It's like nothing.
00:18:44
John S
Okay.
00:18:46
johngrimsmo
um If there's ever a bump or a crash, which I haven't had any a long time, knock on wood, but I did have some in the beginning, you'd see a noticeable change after kinematic. um So the question I always kind of forget is, what is the order of events for this? Is it kinematic first? Is it get the probe dialed first?
00:19:07
johngrimsmo
Because part of me goes, the what's the master? Like the the the probe, the spindle probe is doing the kinematic and it's touching off your work piece.
00:19:10
John S
Exactly. what Where does the...
00:19:16
johngrimsmo
So is that the master? Does that have to happen first? um And the way Rob explained it briefly, he says, what is the unchanging artifact of this entire procedure?
Ensuring Machine Accuracy with Calibration Pins
00:19:28
johngrimsmo
It's your calibration pin.
00:19:29
John S
You have gauge your your gauge tool.
00:19:30
johngrimsmo
the The tool holder gauge.
00:19:32
John S
Yes.
00:19:33
johngrimsmo
and And this one, it's not just a cylinder. It's got a step at the top. So it's like a little lollipop. Well, it's cylindrical.
00:19:39
John S
Okay.
00:19:39
johngrimsmo
um So that the laser can touch not only the end of the tool, but up this um little pin at the end with a skinnier shank, like a necked tool.
00:19:47
John S
Okay.
00:19:49
John S
Okay.
00:19:50
johngrimsmo
um because that has a very precise distance, call it six millimeters length.
00:19:54
John S
Mm-hmm.
00:19:55
johngrimsmo
That way the laser can hit the end, it can hit the side, and it can hit the top of this exposed pin with a neck diameter.
00:20:00
John S
right this is this came with the machine from kern okay
00:20:03
johngrimsmo
um Yeah, yeah, it's lasered current on it. Somebody else makes it, but um calibration tool. So it's got, you know, it's made as one body, it's no run out, and it's calibrated.
00:20:14
johngrimsmo
comes with a spec sheet that says, regardless of what it's supposed to be, this tool is this.
00:20:16
John S
right you right
00:20:21
johngrimsmo
at 20 degrees Celsius kind of thing. So, okay, with that in mind, that is your absolute master. Everything in the world is based off of this physical object. So you calibrate the laser first.
00:20:32
johngrimsmo
Okay, so you put that in the tool, there's a calibration routine, it takes like 12 seconds, it's not long. um Now, theoretically, the laser is calibrated to the length of this tool.
00:20:47
johngrimsmo
Then, okay, I'm just reading through my notes here. Okay. Then I put in a sharp, for me it's a two flute eighth inch NML that doesn't get used to cut anything. It's just a sharp tool.
00:21:00
johngrimsmo
you know Kind of in a middle range of all the tools that I use, eighth inch is pretty middle range.
00:21:03
John S
I love that.
00:21:04
johngrimsmo
Yep. I do have half inch tool in the Kern, but it's weird. I don't like to use it. Anyway, eighth inch tool, I touch it off with a calibrated laser. So now that tool is theoretically touched off.
00:21:19
John S
OK.
00:21:19
johngrimsmo
to a calibrated laser. And then um and then i cut a surface. I put a little piece of aluminum or brass in a vise and I cut a surface and I save the current, like i manually jog it, I don't lift up.
00:21:32
johngrimsmo
The current Z height is now saved into an offset, you know whatever G59 or whatever you're not using.
00:21:32
John S
OK.
00:21:39
johngrimsmo
um And then the probe comes in, bring the probe in and I touch that cut surface based on that tool offset that cut that surface.
00:21:47
John S
sure
00:21:48
johngrimsmo
right So my my cutting tool is now a gauge. I cut a surface. The surface is now a gauge. And now the probe cuts that comes in and probes that surface with a calibration routine. So now I have z-calibrated the probe.
00:22:01
John S
And you can't use the laser to calibrate the probe because the probe actually has to be pushed or deformed or moved to trigger.
00:22:10
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:22:10
John S
So you actually need to have it physically bump something.
00:22:11
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:22:14
johngrimsmo
Yes, and ideally bumping a cut surface that you just cut with a tool you've just calibrated theoretically one of the better ways to do it.
00:22:14
John S
OK.
00:22:22
John S
Okay.
00:22:22
johngrimsmo
um ah So then you cut on the cut surface, you calibrate, to do a Z calibration with the probe, just a single touch, and it goes, oh, now the probe is, the the trigger point of the probe gauge length is exactly this long.
00:22:33
John S
Yes. Right.
00:22:35
johngrimsmo
um Okay, looking down my list, probe the surface, got that to that. So now the laser is calibrated, my test tool is calibrated, my probe length is calibrated.
00:22:47
johngrimsmo
um Then i do the kinematics.
00:22:53
johngrimsmo
I don't have XY probe calibration on this list, I need to add that. um At some point, you dial in the probe for either run out or put it in a a ring gauge and do your XY calibration.
00:23:01
John S
Yeah, sure.
00:23:04
johngrimsmo
That might be important before kinematics.
00:23:09
johngrimsmo
Anyway, Z is pretty much done now. Then you run the kinematics, which on the current has a 20 millimeter ah ceramic gauge ball on a shaft, like literally a lollipop sticking up um on a pallet, fixed pallet that gets called in and it does, you know, it touches the top.
00:23:18
John S
Yeah, right.
00:23:27
johngrimsmo
It rotates the whole thing down to the side. It touches the side.
00:23:29
John S
Mm-hmm.
00:23:29
johngrimsmo
It does all these wiggy waggy moves where it does it for like five minutes in all different orientations. That ball being a calibrated surface, 20 millimeters exactly.
00:23:41
johngrimsmo
um And that establishes the rotational accuracy of the machine, like the volume of space kind of thing, as far as I understand.
00:23:48
John S
Yeah.
00:23:51
johngrimsmo
um And then apparently you calibrate the laser again, because changing the kinematic results can, because the laser is attached to the table, right?
00:23:59
John S
Yeah, of course.
00:24:01
johngrimsmo
So if kinematics moves by two microns, your laser has now moved by two microns.
00:24:01
John S
It's iterative.
00:24:05
John S
In theory, you need to repeat the whole procedure then.
00:24:08
johngrimsmo
Yeah, like how many times do you go? um
00:24:10
John S
Sure. It's probably...
00:24:11
johngrimsmo
With the kinematics, it literally shows you a printout on the screen.
00:24:12
John S
didn't
00:24:16
johngrimsmo
XYZ, ABC has moved by however many microns. So yeah, I guess if you did it again and again, you'd see zero change. And I have read kinematics twice, and I see zero change. So that's good. But um yeah, and I do need to add an XY probe calibration probably before kinematics in that step.
00:24:36
John S
Yeah, it makes sense. Okay, that whole process passes muster.
00:24:38
johngrimsmo
It's not hard, but it's if you miss a step, if you do it wrong, which I never really did the laser first.
00:24:39
John S
Yeah.
00:24:44
johngrimsmo
I knew laser had to go after kinematics because I ran into problems with that. um Yeah, so it's kind of confusing.
00:24:52
John S
Okay. No, it's helpful.
00:24:54
johngrimsmo
So that's why it's good to have it written down.
00:24:56
John S
Right. And that ah whole idea that like with a laser that you started with is mounted on something that just moved when you ran kinematics means in theory, if you ran the whole thing again, it should be almost perfect because you would assume it is soaked up almost all of the error having gone through that.
00:25:04
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:25:15
John S
But that makes sense. I think the other question which is probably a much longer conversation from somebody like a Marv or a machine tool designer engineer is when you run kinematics,
00:25:27
John S
um what is happening to to actually compensate it? Because the errors may not be linear.
00:25:33
johngrimsmo
Yeah. Yep.
00:25:35
John S
So the example of let's say you um let's say you use that eighth inch end mill and you machine, keep it simple, you just machine a face of a part when its machine is sitting in normal position, then you tip your B over 90 degrees.
00:25:52
John S
Is that face now perfectly at and what would be effectively an X offset?
00:25:58
johngrimsmo
yep
00:25:58
John S
And if it's not, how do you compensate that recognizing that most things we're doing are in perfectly Cartesian increments of 90 degrees. there There's five axis, there's there's interpolated this the spheres that you're trying to hit as you move through tool paths.
00:26:13
johngrimsmo
the
00:26:15
John S
Because if you're off, why are you off? And is it linear or is it a certain point in a ball screw or bend point?
00:26:23
johngrimsmo
And I think this is not to be confused with a what's it called? A volumetric compensation, like a full, like they have laser calibrations.
00:26:29
John S
Okay.
00:26:33
John S
Yes.
00:26:34
johngrimsmo
Like they have a ball bar test where you, You basically draw a circle, 10-inch circle with this measuring device in the middle of that circle, and it measures how out of round that movement is.
00:26:42
John S
Right.
00:26:46
johngrimsmo
That's one test. A laser calibration, as I understand, kind of spans the entire XYZ volume of the machine, and it hits every point, and you can there's compensation tables where you can you know literally ball screw deviation adjustments throughout the travel kind of thing.
00:27:04
John S
Right.
00:27:05
johngrimsmo
um So if you want volumetric perfection, um that's one way to do it.
00:27:06
John S
Yeah.
00:27:11
johngrimsmo
And then one of our buddies, what's his name? Nick P3D creations.
00:27:15
John S
Okay.
00:27:15
johngrimsmo
um He has a current and he didn't want to do the laser calibration. So he basically put a 12 by 12 block of aluminum in there, build a square, put that onto his CMM, CMM that square.
00:27:27
johngrimsmo
and measured for any deviation, and then kind of hacked his own compensation table and did it back and forth a couple times until he got perfect results.
00:27:30
John S
no
00:27:36
johngrimsmo
And he's like, and my machine is now square.
00:27:36
John S
Why not? Why didn't he want to do it the other way?
00:27:41
johngrimsmo
Because that costs a lot of money.
00:27:43
John S
Oh, to pay somebody have a ballpark test.
00:27:44
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:27:45
John S
Gotcha.
00:27:45
johngrimsmo
or Or a laser calibration come in.
00:27:45
John S
Okay. Sure, sure, sure. Okay.
00:27:48
johngrimsmo
Yep, yep. Yeah, if you bump your machine, it could go out of square. The rails could shift. And i my machine is not as square as it could be.
00:27:58
John S
Got it.
00:27:58
johngrimsmo
But I make such small parts, it doesn't affect me. If I was making a 12 by 12 thing that had to be exactly 12 by 12 inches, it it wouldn't be right now.
00:28:07
John S
Sure.
00:28:08
johngrimsmo
Whatever.
00:28:08
John S
Right. But that's what's, that's what's fascinating to compensating for that is in software is not easy to do.
00:28:15
johngrimsmo
Sure. Yep.
00:28:16
John S
Um, yeah.
00:28:17
johngrimsmo
And as I've heard from machine tool builders, they're like, make it as mechanically straight and perfect as humanly possible. It's still not perfect perfect. So use software compensation to make it as accurate as you can use it after that.
00:28:30
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it's fascinating stuff.
Precision in Manufacturing and Machining Success
00:28:34
johngrimsmo
I mean, at the end of the day, I just want to make parts, but I want them to be perfect.
00:28:37
John S
Right, right.
00:28:38
johngrimsmo
So it's like all this backend stuff, process, calibration, accuracy. You know, the the first day I learned that... ah A quarter inch end mill that does not measure a quarter inch doesn't measure two five oh oh. was like, hold on. What?
00:28:51
John S
Yeah.
00:28:52
johngrimsmo
You know, wait, you're telling me your tolerance is minus two thou in diameter.
00:28:52
John S
Don't believe anything.
00:28:56
johngrimsmo
I can't rely on that. How can I make accurate parts on that?
00:29:01
John S
That's like, uh, I lost my train of thought. Um, Oh, when we were talking about your taper lockup last week, yeah you're sitting there just chewing on what it could be.
00:29:11
John S
And I'm assuming that you were very much on the right path of like, hey, there's a mechanical interference fit that's right and wrong at the right degree of angle and whether the two angles match or whether one is.
00:29:18
johngrimsmo
sure
00:29:21
John S
Right.
00:29:21
johngrimsmo
yeah I still wonder about that. yep
00:29:23
John S
right I was not expecting it to just be a cad kind of goof upstream of that.
00:29:28
johngrimsmo
yeah yeah yep
00:29:30
John S
But that's great.
00:29:31
johngrimsmo
yeah Currently I have matching angles and it it seems to work. I feel like it's maybe less ideal than a slight mismatch but I don't care because it's working.
00:29:39
John S
Oh, for sure.
00:29:40
johngrimsmo
So like i'm I'm over it.
00:29:40
John S
Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:42
johngrimsmo
I'm going to make basically a bunch of parts and if it develops problems over time, that's one thing. But if it, like after making 20, 30 parts, if some of them are weird, but I have a feeling they're going to be same. So
00:29:54
John S
Good. How much Prussian blue did you get to all over your hands?
00:29:57
johngrimsmo
I was very obsessive and I didn't get any, but I heeded your warning.
00:30:00
John S
Oh, that's very impressive. Good for you. Yeah. No, I had fond memories. It's been years ago at this point, but my first exposure to that was at the Richard King scraping class.
00:30:11
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:30:11
John S
I took one of them down at Keith Rucker's shop and in South Georgia, and then we hosted one up here in Zanesville.
00:30:17
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:18
John S
And you surface, it's a great, you know, you start with a surface ground part, like that's and that's like you've got a lot of work ahead of you, which is kind of crazy.
00:30:28
johngrimsmo
yeah yeah
00:30:29
John S
um And it was really one of those... you know, I didn't realize it at the time, maybe, but kind of one of those turning points and in my machining career, you know, I knew, I knew a lot at that point, like I was comfortable making parts and CAD and cam and, and we even had a grinder, but you start to realize the benefit of scraping is you're able to scrape a part, whether it's by hand with a hand scraper, which is just kind of like a chisel.
00:30:52
John S
Um, Or a power scraper, which oscillates back and forth. Same thing, though, same tool. um But you're able to do that when the part's not being clamped under any force.
00:31:02
John S
It can just be held by hand, effectively.
00:31:03
johngrimsmo
Yeah. It's not magneted down and bending. and He
00:31:07
John S
Bingo. So when you take this casting, and actually corporate patterns, who I think is now kind of switched to other machining work, if that sounded right?
00:31:14
johngrimsmo
he makes carbon fiber bicycles now.
00:31:16
John S
Okay, yeah. Well, he casted up some awesome blank parallels, and so you take the casting and you try to put on the grinder and turn the magnet on with as little flex imparted into the casting as possible, but there still will be some.
00:31:19
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:31:31
John S
We surface ground it, and then you use a fixture, not fixture plate, a surface plate, literally a granite surface plate, and you wipe the Prussian blue on the surface plate so everybody in the class can share this blued up plate because obviously that plate's a mess during the class.
00:31:47
John S
And then you take your part like the surface ground one and you put the, ah you lay it on the blued surface plate and you rub it around and then you pick it up and you see, okay, darker blue is high spots and lighter blue is low spots.
00:32:03
John S
And so you want to, um you want to scrape down the high spots to get the the darker blue and then you re-blue it and you start seeing this gradient of blue and you can achieve,
00:32:09
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:32:16
John S
I don't want misquote the, I mean, microns levels of flatness, but by doing it this way, which is really cool.
00:32:21
johngrimsmo
ye Yep. Yep. That's really, i I did go down the rabbit hole and I watched a bunch of scraping videos. I saw some of Keith Rutgers videos um in the past week trying to learn about blue, but also like, oh,
00:32:35
John S
No, John.
00:32:35
johngrimsmo
Dude, this is pretty interesting.
00:32:39
John S
Somebody like Shane from ah Make Stuff Here, whatever, he should build a, because part of me wants to say it wouldn't be that hard.
00:32:40
johngrimsmo
But it's...
00:32:47
John S
I should actually text him and say to do this. Dye it and then have an AI camera, or not AI, like a a vision camera, look at the high spots.
00:32:53
johngrimsmo
auto-scrape it.
00:32:55
John S
Yeah, exactly. Come in with the robot, scrape that area, re-blue it, and like automated scraping, right?
00:33:00
johngrimsmo
That's pretty sick. Yeah, that's but that's pretty awesome.
00:33:02
John S
Yeah.
00:33:03
johngrimsmo
Um, what's different about a scraped surface I came to realize versus a lapped surface or a very, very flat surface is a scraped surface by nature has valleys.
00:33:14
johngrimsmo
Um, and for a, you know, for the ways of a machine, you want oil to get trapped in there, but not for all things. Do you want, you want a flat surface, not necessarily a grooved flat surface, like a scraped surface, you know?
00:33:26
johngrimsmo
um Like when we lap our blades, I don't want to scrape the sides of the blade, although they would look sick. um
00:33:34
John S
So my, I'm not an expert it's been years since I really dive into this. My understanding, well, first off, yes, you're at some molecular level.
00:33:42
johngrimsmo
Like if you, if you, if you ran an indicator across a scraped surface, you'd see some height difference, wouldn't you?
00:33:42
John S
Scraping still creates peaks in mm-hmm.
00:33:48
johngrimsmo
Like, but it's the average, it's the, the, you know, the peaks are all, all the blue spots once it's scraped, but they're still valleys.
00:33:49
John S
No.
00:33:58
John S
So you can, you can scrape something from, what from my memory, to you could scrape something and take a, uh, one micron millimus and it's going to run good, smooth.
00:34:10
johngrimsmo
Really?
00:34:11
John S
So what you do now, of course, when you're scraping something, yes, you are of course creating like get an electron microscope out.
00:34:16
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:34:17
John S
It's going to look like Mount Everest, but, um, what people do is they scrape it, they get it perfect. And then they come in and they flake it. And flaking is often confused for scraping because when you look at a bridge port and you see the beautiful, they kind of look like Nike swooshes that are turned 90 degrees up.
00:34:28
johngrimsmo
OK.
00:34:33
johngrimsmo
Yep, yep.
00:34:34
John S
And there's like a more pattern of flaking. Flaking is what is then creating oil grooves. And those oil grooves are actually intentionally, again, if you think about that Nike swoosh, but rotated it.
00:34:47
John S
Well, it doesn't have to be rotated, but they continue on. The idea is that the oil can puddle into the biggest part of the swoosh and then it could slightly seep through the small tip and make its way to the next one.
00:34:57
John S
But it's not going to just rush through there. It's kind of like a um like a Fibonacci valve.
00:34:59
johngrimsmo
oh
00:35:02
John S
Have you ever seen that? Like a one-way, not Fibonacci valve. What's that? Tesla valve. Google what a Tesla one-way valve is. It's a mechanical valve that largely creates a one-directional flow with no moving parts.
00:35:16
johngrimsmo
Oh, yeah, I have seen pictures of that. Okay.
00:35:18
John S
um So flaking is what you do after scraping to allow oil to to stay on the surface as well as to flow through it.
00:35:21
johngrimsmo
Interesting.
00:35:24
John S
But I'm going to take an extended period of time to actually work its way out.
00:35:28
johngrimsmo
Sure. That's cool. and
00:35:32
John S
That's a good question. I should look up or ask somebody who scrapes more because I want to say when you scrape, it's it's flat. I mean, you're not going to see any movement with any normal indicator we have access to.
00:35:42
johngrimsmo
That doesn't seem right, but having never scraped, I don't know. I'm guessing here, right?
00:35:46
John S
Yeah. yeah
00:35:48
johngrimsmo
um This is where Grenzetti is rolling in his ah shoes right now, going, guys
00:35:52
John S
but I'm happy and proud to say Robin normally listens. So Robin, if you want to email me or call me, I would love to hear what you have to say on this.
00:35:56
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:35:59
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it's I'm curious because it's it's one of those rabbit holes i don't i shouldn't go down to hand scrape stuff, but i I am very obsessed with flatness and flat things, and this is another aspect of that.
00:36:09
John S
Yeah.
00:36:10
johngrimsmo
That one day, maybe when I'm old and gray, I'll be like, all right, it's time to start scraping.
00:36:15
John S
Yeah.
00:36:16
johngrimsmo
But cool.
00:36:18
John S
Yeah. The other obvious reason that scraping is exists is if you have a, let's say you're building a 100-inch
Hand Scraping Techniques for Flat Surfaces
00:36:25
John S
blanchard, have the casting base of that maybe 27,000 pounds, and there may not be a bigger machine to put it on.
00:36:27
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:36:32
John S
Actually, there probably is. But regardless, you might need to use smaller, slightly more mobile straight edges, which might still be moved with a crane, but those can be your bluey masters, and then you can scrape it with a you know ah effectively a three-pound power tool.
00:36:39
johngrimsmo
yeah Yeah.
00:36:44
johngrimsmo
By hand.
00:36:46
John S
um
00:36:46
johngrimsmo
Yep, yep.
00:36:47
John S
Yeah.
00:36:48
johngrimsmo
Yeah, that's cool. the um The table of our Zeiss CMM, we have the Duramax, right? And it's little, i think it's 20 by 20 inches.
00:36:59
johngrimsmo
And it's the shop floor, cheapest one they make pretty much. The table has that Nike swoosh more pattern on it, but they're like two inches apart and they're purely decorative.
00:37:06
John S
ki
00:37:11
johngrimsmo
it They don't do anything, but they look pretty.
00:37:12
John S
Oh, interesting. interesting Well, sometimes those could... I wonder if those are also there, though, to help stop things from suctioning to the granite.
00:37:19
johngrimsmo
Maybe, yeah, maybe. It's not granite, it's a steel cast iron table.
00:37:25
John S
Okay, got it, got it. I might be wrong, too. I'm probably wrong about many things. It might be the more pattern of scraping and not flaking. Flaking is still that...
00:37:33
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:37:36
John S
If you Google it, you'll see, let's see how the video that first comes up is actually from Robin Renzetti, more pattern hand scraping. You can literally see these ellipse or these Nike swoosh style things.
00:37:46
johngrimsmo
Okay, okay, yeah.
00:37:48
John S
um Yeah, yeah.
00:37:50
johngrimsmo
That's so fascinating.
00:37:51
John S
It really is cool.
00:37:52
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I don't need to right now though. But that's cool.
00:37:55
John S
Good for you, yeah.
00:37:56
johngrimsmo
i'm i'm glad I'm glad it's out there and ready for me whenever I'm ready for it.
00:38:01
John S
Yeah.
00:38:01
johngrimsmo
But this all ties into Prussian blue. and That's a smaller scale, why not?
00:38:05
John S
Yeah. I don't know if there's any like instances of micro scraping. No,
00:38:12
johngrimsmo
i don't know.
00:38:13
John S
no I mean like scraping a pinhead a pinhead, like something that's just devastatingly small.
00:38:16
johngrimsmo
listen
00:38:20
John S
the only thing I can think of it is just not really analogous, but is... um touring the Sandvik ceramic insert facility years ago, they would micro a blade or micro bead blast off coatings.
00:38:36
John S
And like, that's how certain areas of the inserts were coated in were. And like, I think it's all robotically done with ultra high precision to be able to control small areas of that, which is pretty cool.
00:38:40
johngrimsmo
Yeah,
00:38:46
johngrimsmo
yeah pretty cool.
00:38:48
John S
You would think you could even quote unquote scrape that way because it's abrasively able to remove small amounts and then rebrew it, measure it, braid a little bit more. fact, I wonder why that isn't done. Maybe Shane can tackle that.
00:39:01
John S
Like come in, because you think about it like, okay, like blast a little bit. It's kind of like EDM meets, bead blaster meets scraping um very, very small amounts of controlled material removal.
00:39:09
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:39:13
johngrimsmo
Yeah, I mean, sinker EDM, pretty much. Just EDM various zones.
00:39:16
John S
Yeah.
00:39:19
John S
Right.
00:39:19
johngrimsmo
Weird.
00:39:21
John S
Yep.
00:39:21
johngrimsmo
And it it all kind of ties into, you know, Spencer's flat stones, like the PFG stones, which I adore.
00:39:26
John S
Yes.
00:39:28
johngrimsmo
um They reveal all the secrets, you know, scraping, bluing, it's a different version of that.
00:39:32
John S
Yeah.
00:39:35
johngrimsmo
Opposite kind of ends, but...
00:39:37
John S
Oh, that's the other fun thing. When you finally get scraped parts um really flat, when you rub them on a the fixture plate, I think I had it backward earlier on.
00:39:51
John S
So when you start to get a lot of your, let's call it a big parallel. The ones we made were 36 inch long
00:39:59
johngrimsmo
Do you have one still?
00:39:59
John S
by i have three
00:40:01
johngrimsmo
Really?
00:40:02
John S
Yeah, they're great.
00:40:02
johngrimsmo
You don't need three?
00:40:04
John S
Come on down.
00:40:05
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:40:05
John S
um um the The highest spot will have no blue because the highest spot is making the most contact with the plate. So it will it will rub off.
00:40:15
John S
It won't rub I think I had a backward 20 minutes ago on the call on this our podcast.
00:40:20
johngrimsmo
and I get what you're saying, yeah.
00:40:22
John S
So if you think... The highest spot, whereas if you think about the valley, the lake, the lowest spot, the lake of the of the bar will soak up some of this Prussian blue and it will not get rubbed away.
00:40:34
John S
So it will be the darkest.
00:40:34
johngrimsmo
is As I understand, like imagine if your your your surface plate is blued and you have a cupped part that goes on top. every
00:40:44
John S
so you're, yeah.
00:40:45
johngrimsmo
You have two points of contact, the ends pretty much.
00:40:46
John S
Correct, yeah, yes.
00:40:48
johngrimsmo
Those will turn blue.
00:40:49
John S
No, opposite. Those will, those will,
00:40:50
johngrimsmo
I think they will. but I haven't done it so i don't know.
00:40:52
John S
So the reason I know they won't is that what happens is you start getting your part really flat and you start rubbing on the plate, the highest spots end up polishing to a glistening, glistening, pure, like
00:41:00
johngrimsmo
Okay.
Precision Machining Techniques for Flat Surfaces
00:41:04
John S
reflective surface.
00:41:04
John S
There's no blue and they actually literally pop. They have like little diamonds in your part.
00:41:08
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:41:09
John S
And then of course the lake, which is upside down in your analogy, but when you flip the part back over and you scrape it, the lake will have the most blue left it and it will be the darkest.
00:41:14
johngrimsmo
Yeah, yeah.
00:41:18
johngrimsmo
But are you not scraping the blue off? thought that's what I saw in videos.
00:41:22
John S
So that's now you, in fairness, now you're reminding me of that. so
00:41:26
johngrimsmo
i' I'm sure this makes sense when you're doing it. but
00:41:29
John S
Yeah. I'm sure that the high spot thing though, well, um
00:41:33
johngrimsmo
Unless the blue is so thin that it literally only hits the high spot and you don't put more pressure into it.
00:41:38
John S
go go watch Robin's video. I think I did a video, Adam of Booth did one, Keith Rucker did.
00:41:40
johngrimsmo
Yep, yep.
00:41:41
John S
There's lots of folks out there that are gonna be, well, we live in a great world.
00:41:42
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:41:45
johngrimsmo
Well, and rob Robin's got his lap zetti table, right? Which is, I think, a 12 by 12 inch cast iron flat plate, which maybe, but I think Robin has one and it's ah it's it's a um scraped flat flat surface.
00:41:52
John S
I think that's a Spencer Webb term that he pilfered from Robin or whatever. Yeah. Okay.
00:42:04
John S
Yes.
00:42:04
johngrimsmo
um Super flat, right?
00:42:06
John S
Reference surface.
00:42:07
johngrimsmo
yeah Yeah, exactly.
00:42:08
John S
Yeah.
00:42:09
johngrimsmo
Cool. It's all about precision. You know, it's like, it's the backbone of trying to make good parts is being able to measure them and being able to have reference surfaces or calibration spheres or ah flat stones that reveal all the secrets.
00:42:22
johngrimsmo
Like it's all these tricks that I didn't know five years ago, 10 years ago.
00:42:26
John S
Oh yeah, right.
00:42:26
johngrimsmo
I still don't know. I'm still super rookie with all this stuff, but it's like the more I learn, the more I want to learn.
00:42:34
John S
And then Marv's posting photos of an electron microscope and a ruby tip and I'm just like, oh, yeah he is he has found the next level.
00:42:38
johngrimsmo
ye Yeah, look at all these imperfections in the Ruby tip.
00:42:43
John S
and Yeah.
00:42:47
johngrimsmo
oh
00:42:47
John S
but Well, on a fun note, I am... Super happy, well, disclaimer, I want a full video kind of just review of the 1500 MX. This is the new Tormach machine. And we'll do that here probably in a month or so. But the point was to get the machine to to support R&D and prototyping. And we have ah three jobs waiting for it, one of which is running right now. And it's A2 fixtures. and I don't know, it's pretty good test.
00:43:14
John S
It's soft A2, which isn't particularly challenging to machine. It's not terribly dissimilar from 4140, but it is tends to eat up tooling.
00:43:21
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:43:23
John S
Tool life is markedly less than 4140. And have... and we have roughed it, finished it, great finishes on sort facing, drilled it with a 10 millimeter drill, which is not the easiest task for a single phase machine.
00:43:38
John S
um And then rigid tapped quarter 20 went great, taps look great.
00:43:41
johngrimsmo
you
00:43:42
John S
So I'm super happy that that's, you know, a lot of the work it's gonna to do is easier than that. And so if it can do that, awesome.
00:43:51
johngrimsmo
Sick.
00:43:51
John S
So now I'm gonna heat treat them and then we are gonna actually try hard milling them, which actually,
00:43:57
johngrimsmo
be fine.
00:43:57
John S
Yeah, exactly. We're going to use RegoFix holders just to minimize run out.
00:44:01
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:44:03
John S
And here it BT30, yeah.
00:44:04
johngrimsmo
What is it, BT30? Yeah.
00:44:07
John S
So i'm I'm not nervous at all about the hard milling. I also just think that there's just still something mesmerizing to see that occur and but have it happen well.
00:44:15
johngrimsmo
yeah
00:44:16
John S
I'll be curious to see how tool life is on
00:44:18
johngrimsmo
What tools are you going to use for this hard milling?
00:44:20
John S
same as we're using in the Okuma's.
00:44:21
johngrimsmo
Yeah, it's just regular stuff, yeah.
00:44:23
John S
We have a, actually, we use a 316th
00:44:27
John S
rougher that's from HaasDueling. It's a YG1 though. um It's inexpensive and it works great. And then we switch to a mole. Who am I using? I can't remember.
00:44:37
johngrimsmo
MS?
00:44:38
John S
Yeah.
00:44:38
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:44:38
John S
Because you use union, right? Yeah.
00:44:40
johngrimsmo
I use some union and Moldino as well.
00:44:42
John S
Okay. We've, yeah. So the, but when I'm terms of rigidity, the machine is actually super rigid. It's an epoxy granite machine.
00:44:51
johngrimsmo
I bet it is, yeah.
00:44:52
John S
And with a RegoFix having effectively no TIR, I think it actually might be better at hard milling than it even is at say roughing steel because it's still 2000 pound, I don't know much it weighs, you know, it's still not a 10,000 pound machine.
00:45:05
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:45:06
John S
So we'll see.
00:45:08
johngrimsmo
Cool.
00:45:11
johngrimsmo
And i'll end on in two weeks, we are attending the Toronto Knife Show.
00:45:16
John S
Awesome.
00:45:16
johngrimsmo
Any local people, definitely come say hi. I don't think they've had this show for many years.
00:45:21
John S
Oh good.
00:45:22
johngrimsmo
But Eric and I went to it in 2012 as our very first Knife show. And we have a picture of young Eric and young John um with like our first Norseman you know just on display.
00:45:33
John S
2012, my God.
00:45:33
johngrimsmo
yeah And so super excited to go back. We kind of got a last minute table. Yeah. one of our customers, Bob, who came to your open house.
00:45:42
John S
Oh yeah.
00:45:42
johngrimsmo
um He's driving up from Chicago to come to the show and see our shop and hang out with us.
00:45:45
John S
Awesome.
00:45:47
johngrimsmo
And yeah, both.
00:45:48
John S
Are you exhibiting or are going stuff for sale?
00:45:51
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:45:51
John S
Awesome.
00:45:52
johngrimsmo
Yep.
00:45:52
John S
That's cool. Sweet.
00:45:53
johngrimsmo
Super nice to have a local show. It's 45 minutes away. We just drive stuff there, drive it back. And it's going to be great.
00:45:57
John S
Yeah, that's nice.
00:46:00
John S
I will end with, um, I am killing it on Johnny five, you know, and in a humble way, um, spent two or three days just diving into the electronics.
00:46:06
johngrimsmo
Really? Yes. Yes.
00:46:11
John S
We threw up an Instagram. I think they're real. So I think you can watch them versus stories that go away, but, um, there's a lot of work on the electronics, you know lots of cable harnesses, wiring and circuit boards and servo controllers and solid state relays to hook up.
00:46:15
johngrimsmo
Oh, no.
00:46:25
John S
But, um, I got a nasty case of food poisoning Saturday night, which sent me back.
00:46:31
johngrimsmo
oh no
00:46:31
John S
Otherwise I would have hooked up the, I'm like three hours of work away from hooking up the two track drives and the remote control. The remote control is one of those like, ah like crazy ones. That is what you see with this guys fly RC helicopters. it has a touchscreen on it.
00:46:46
johngrimsmo
Okay.
00:46:46
John S
um And that's going to be an awesome step to get that under remote control power really moving.
00:46:53
johngrimsmo
And will it actually like scoot around at that point?
00:46:56
John S
Oh, no, like for sure.
00:46:57
johngrimsmo
Yeah.
00:46:58
John S
and And you could, you could ride on it. Like it's got a lot of torque.
00:47:01
johngrimsmo
Nice.
00:47:01
John S
Um, so that's, feels really good.
00:47:04
johngrimsmo
That's awesome.
00:47:07
johngrimsmo
Well, hopefully ah hopefully you get better soon.
00:47:07
John S
Yeah.
00:47:09
johngrimsmo
it Sounds like you're almost over it.
00:47:10
John S
Yeah. I'll be good. Just yeah. Cool.
00:47:14
johngrimsmo
Excellent.
00:47:15
John S
See you next week.
00:47:15
johngrimsmo
See you next week, man.
00:47:16
John S
Sounds good too.
00:47:17
johngrimsmo
Okay, bye.