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Aquaman
151 Plays5 years ago
Yes, Aquaman is a badass and this movie proved it. We praise James Wan's confident direction, Jason Momoa's surfer bro take on the King of the Seas, and just overall geek out on the closest DC has ever come to making an MCU film.
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Transcript
Introduction and Host Greetings
00:00:24
Speaker
My father was a lighthouse keeper. My mother was a queen. They were never meant to meet. But their love saved the world. They made me what I am.
00:00:44
Speaker
A son of the land, the king of the seas. I am the protector of the demons. I am Aquaman. Welcome to Superhero Cinephiles podcast. I am half of your host, Perry Constantine. And I am the other half, Derek Ferguson. How you doing today, Derek?
00:01:11
Speaker
Oh, can't complain, can't complain. Just a little bit sluggish because of the weather. It's been raining here for the past two days. It's been raining straight. We've had really funny weather. For a while, it was almost summertime. We had about two or three weeks where it was 60, 70 degrees. But now, in the last week or so, it's going back toward winter. OK. Yeah, we actually had snow one day last week. We had no snow.
00:01:38
Speaker
No, we have some hail. Yeah. You know, it's it sucks because it's it was getting really warm like around last weekend. And and I thought, you know, oh, this would be good. Like, I'll probably take my sketchbook out because I've been practicing how to draw lately and, you know, take a walk out and go to the park or something and sketch for a little bit there. But then, like, as soon as I had that idea, it started getting cold again.
00:02:04
Speaker
Yeah. Well, of course. Yeah. As soon as you start making plans, because usually like around this time of year, I start getting my deck together, you know, for the spring and summer because, you know, my wife and I, we enjoy going out on the pay no attention to that.
00:02:22
Speaker
You know, we like you know, we go out there and we barbecue We hang out on the deck. We listen to music whatnot. So usually around this time of year I'm getting my deck together, but I have been able to do that because of the weather has been so crazy Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know, so I don't know.
Cultural Phenomenon: Tiger King Discussion
00:02:39
Speaker
We'll see and I finished watching Tiger King on Netflix. Oh Man, what did you think? That is some of the craziest shit I've ever seen
00:02:53
Speaker
I'll tell ya. I mean, but you know what's the thing that surprised me? Sorry, go ahead. The only thing I gotta add, what is it with you white people and wild animals? You know what? I had never known, like, okay, you know, disclaimer, we were talking before the show too, because we were talking about, I do not think I'm a regular white person, because I do not understand half this shit.
00:03:20
Speaker
Oh man, that is, you know, and really I just love it because if I had wrote that as fiction, nobody would publish it because they would say, oh man, nobody's going to believe that. I mean, you can't, there's some shit you just can't make up.
00:03:37
Speaker
Ah, God. But you know what? The thing that I thought was craziest about that is afterwards I go on social media and I see people talking about how, you know, Joe Exotic should be pardoned and he should be released from prison. I'm like, what?
00:03:52
Speaker
This guy's not a hero. This guy's a fucking monster. Did you guys watch? Did you guys watch the same thing I watched? Yeah, Joe Exact should never be let out of jail. No, hell no. And apparently they cut out a lot of racism because he was from the documentary. Yeah. But the funniest thing that I found was that they talked to all these different people and they asked everybody.
00:04:21
Speaker
Everybody that they spoke to on that day, they asked them the same question. What do you think that Carol killed the husband? Oh, yeah, she killed him. Nobody has any doubt that she killed this cat. Yeah, and in fact, they're apparently reopening the investigation now because of that. Yeah, because of this. What is it? The Investigative Discovery Channel.
00:04:42
Speaker
They're going to do their own documentary and they're going to reopen the case and they're going to follow it, you know, into because they
Current Events: Political Controversies
00:04:50
Speaker
had the lawyer saying that he said that he had been doing law for like 40 years. And he said he never saw a will where it was in the in the case of my death or disappearance. Yeah. Disappearing.
00:05:05
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that was weird. I don't know. Just everybody involved in that show is just fucking nuts. And I saw the, did you see the epilogue episode with Joel McHale? Yeah, and poor Joel McHale looked like he didn't know if he should, he didn't know which way to go with this. Oh my God, I'm watching him and I think even Joel McHale didn't know if he was making jokes or being serious when he asked these questions. Yeah, I mean, you don't know when, I mean,
00:05:36
Speaker
Where do you go with that? And this dude that's got the sec coat, you know, that guy? Oh my God. Yeah. Oh man. And then there's the other guy in Las Vegas. And that cat is, that cat is as shady as all get out. The guy, the guy who sells drugs to fund his exotic animal habit. I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:06:01
Speaker
Yeah, that cat is shady. Oh my God. The whole thing was just nuts. Because nobody is quite sure where he, you know, where, you know, yeah, he sells drugs, but this cat has got a whole lot of other stuff going on with him. That was the impression I got. You know, then there's, um,
00:06:16
Speaker
I was watching, just before we started, I was watching the Honest Trailers did one of Tiger King. And they said that, you know, Joe Exotic is like, if you play the Fallout games and you do the character selection screen and you put it on random, that's what he comes out looking like.
00:06:36
Speaker
Oh, man. I mean, that is that. Like I said, I love it because there's some stuff you just can't make up. And that and that definitely falls under that category of that. I was watching it and my and I've been around for a while. I've seen a lot of shit, but I am delighted that there are still things in this world that can make me go WTF.
00:07:00
Speaker
Well, you know, I am actually not delighted because I got one of those yesterday when it turns out that the fucking president is telling people to inject bleach into themselves. Oh, my God. You know, just the way you think.
00:07:15
Speaker
Just when you think shit can't get any crazier. And I've got to stop saying that because it does. You keep jinxing us, man. Yeah, I've got to stop saying that. Oh, shit can't get any crazier than this. Yes, it does. He's going around telling people to inject. And you know what? I don't know. I was watching a documentary the other day or turn to classic movie. They were showing like a whole bunch of political movies and they showed a movie about the Kennedy
00:07:46
Speaker
when him and Hubert Humphrey were running against each other. And I was watching it. And so help me. It was like watching a movie that was made on another planet. You know, to see how politics was done back then, as opposed to politics now. Oh, yeah. I honestly felt like I should be singing David Bowie's life on Mars while I was watching this back then.
00:08:10
Speaker
Yeah, because that's honestly how I felt. This is something from a completely different planet from the one I'm living on. Oh, God, it's nuts these days. You know what?
00:08:23
Speaker
is getting to the point now, and I didn't used to do that, but now, like, I get up, and the first thing I do is I turn on the news to see what crazy shit has happened while I was asleep. Oh, yeah. And, you know, it's over here when I get up, it's like nighttime for you guys. So it's all the day's news is out by that point. So I'm just like, it's like a onslaught of crazy shit as soon as I wake up in the morning.
00:08:46
Speaker
And that's all it is. It's just crazy shit. And apparently nobody has the backbone to just stand up and just say that. And to me, I don't understand because in the Navy, if you have a captain of the ship and he's incompetent, you can remove him from office.
00:09:11
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm pretty sure you can do that with the president. But apparently nobody has the backbone to try to say, you know, something, this cat is incompetent. We did. I'm honestly surprised that there hasn't been a military coup yet. Yeah. Yeah. As a matter of fact, one of the movies that they showed the same day I watched the documentary I was telling about was Seven Days in May. And that's what I was thinking of. I said, well, maybe that's what we need here. Yeah. Jesus.
Podcast Recommendations: Scrubs Rewatch
00:09:40
Speaker
Oh.
00:09:41
Speaker
But on a better note, I've also been listening to Fake Doctor's Real Friends. It's a podcast hosted by Zach Braff and Donald Faison, and they're doing a rewatch of Scrubs. And each episode, they're focusing on a different episode of Scrubs and talking about their memories of filming the episode, their experiences on the set, and all that kind of stuff. And it's really good because I didn't know this, but apparently,
00:10:09
Speaker
You know, they're like best friends JD and Turk on the TV show. And that's what they're like in real life too. Oh, okay. So I always like to hear that. I always like to hear that guys. You know, one of the things that always depressed me for about 10 minutes about Star Trek was when I found out that actually none of that, all the cast members with the exception of Leonard Nimoy, they hated William Shatner. Yeah. You know, but
00:10:35
Speaker
to give them their credit, they are such professionals that that never comes across on screen. Yeah. Yeah. You honestly believe that all these people, but, uh, but apparently like, uh, James Doohan refused to talk to William Chatham unless they were actually on set and they were, you know, they had to do a scene.
00:10:54
Speaker
other than that, he, you know, he simply wouldn't deal with the man. So, you know, yeah. So when I hear that actors who work together and they have like this great friendship on screen, I always like to hear that. Yeah. That carried over. And they are actually like that in real life. You know,
00:11:09
Speaker
It's just nice. They actually mentioned that because they say that they've heard about horror stories on other sets where the actors would not talk to each other and that kind of stuff. And they said that was never the case with Scrubs. We were a big family there. Everybody was always great to each other. Even now, they still get together and hang out and that kind of shit.
00:11:32
Speaker
Oh, yeah. See? Yeah. See, that's nice. I like that. In fact, it was kind of funny. Supernatural did kind of a spoof of that, because in real life, the actors, Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles, they're like best friends in real life. They were best man at each other's wedding and all that kind of stuff. But they did an episode called, I think it was called The French Mistake or something, or The French, where they jumped into another reality where Supernatural was a TV show.
00:12:02
Speaker
And in the TV, in this fictionalized version of the real world, the two actors hated each other offset and they never spoke to each other. So they kind of played funny with that.
Character Spotlight: Aquaman's Depth and Evolution
00:12:18
Speaker
All right, so today we're talking about your pick, which is Aquaman starring Jason Momoa.
00:12:29
Speaker
And so what's your what's your association with Aquaman going into this? My social well, like, you know, like my association with Aquaman is in the comic books, of course, going back to I remember reading, see, because unlike a lot of people, I always thought Aquaman was pretty cool. You know, I always did. And when Jim Apparo
00:12:53
Speaker
was uh drawing the comic book that was that's what got me into it you know okay the artwork but uh also the stories because aquaman was and a lot of people i i guess have either forgotten this
00:13:09
Speaker
or they never knew it, but even back in the sixties and seventies, Aquaman was a pretty grim character because, you know, his son got killed by his archenemy, his wife left them, you know, Atlantis has kicked them out, you know, said, you know, you're an incompetent king, you know, you can't, it was some pretty grim storylines that was going on. I mean, you know, back then, so it wasn't like,
00:13:32
Speaker
I know that now the popular joke, well, at least up until this movie, the popular joke was that, oh, well, all Aquaman does is just talk to fish. Yeah, but no. It's not just that Aquaman, excuse me, it's not just that Aquaman talks to fish. There is a very important part in this movie that shows that it's not just that he talks to fish. Aquaman communicates.
00:14:02
Speaker
with them because there is a crucial part where he doesn't just beat up the big monster, you know, to get to try it. He communicates with it. Yeah. And as a result, you know, that's how he gets it, which to me is very important and says a lot about the character, which is in the other
00:14:25
Speaker
Usually they say, well, he can command sea life and everything like that. But you never see him do that in this movie. He never commands sea life. He asks them. He communicates with them, which to me is a subtle message, but very important one. McSweeny's a few years. This is like, you know, going back over a while back, like over 10 years now. But McSweeny's did an article titled Aquaman King of the Seven Seas has fucking had it with you, man.
00:14:54
Speaker
And it's like written in Aquaman's character. And it's just hilarious. And he says that. Yeah, because Aquaman is kind of like a very underrated character. I think most people know him from Super Friends. Yeah, exactly. Really? He was asked most people, you know, they don't know from the comic books, they know from Super Friends. And that's the only
00:15:17
Speaker
version, they don't remember the 60s, the Filmation animated series that I do where he was riding the honking huge giant seahorse, which I thought was as cool as all Get Out. I mean, there was this one part in the article that says, when you were a kid, you used to be cool, man. When you were a kid, you'd sit at the bottom of the stoop ax pool, remember? You used to sit there and pretend the kickboard between your knees would storm the giant seahorse, and you'd stand there for as long as you could going, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do. You sure seem like a happy little kid.
00:15:47
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, you did. I mean, listen, I don't know about anybody else. I thought that was cool that he had a giant seahorse.
00:15:55
Speaker
And you know, my, because I didn't grow up with super friends, right? I think that was pretty much, that was not even in reruns when I was a kid. Well, it was on Cartoon Network, but we didn't have cable when I was growing up, so. Okay. But so my first association with Aquaman came from the Grant Morrison JLA run, which, you know, and that Aquaman was fucking badass.
00:16:21
Speaker
Yeah, well, you know what? Somebody had the sense to actually sit down and think about, okay, well, Aquaman, he's a guy that's in the, okay, he lives in the ocean. So in order to live at the bottom of the ocean with this tremendous death, that, you know, well, obviously his muscular and bone density must be a hell of a lot stronger than normal human, which,
00:16:47
Speaker
They figure would make him roughly at equal to Wonder Woman at least. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I mean they Eventually, they put Aquaman is in terms of strength as being around the same level as Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman. Yeah somewhere around yeah Yeah, I think a lot of that is because Morrison had them pretty much on equal power footing in JLA but I think a lot of that is probably should be credited to Peter David who did like, you know this
00:17:15
Speaker
Amazing character defining run on the character in the early 90s. Oh, yeah Peter David any calm any character He touches turns into like a character defining role
00:17:26
Speaker
Well, yeah, I mean, OK, it goes back to something that you and I have talked about and something I've talked about with other writers. There's no such thing as bad character. If you if you are a writer of sufficient imagination and talent, you can take any character and make them bad. I believe that 100 percent. Oh, yeah. Hell yeah. And you want to put into work to do it.
00:17:46
Speaker
Yeah, and he did that with Aquaman. He gave him the long hair and the beard. And talking about how dark the comics were at some point, I can't remember what the villain was, but put his hand in a fucking pool of piranha and they ate off his hand. And then he had to replace it with a hook.
00:18:11
Speaker
As I said before, people only know Aquaman from Super Friends. But in the comic books, Aquaman always was a pretty darn character. Yeah. So I was really surprised, actually, when everyone's doing these Aquaman jokes and stuff. And I'm like, but what are you guys talking about? Aquaman's badass. Yeah. Yeah, he is no joke. And I mean, in this movie,
00:18:35
Speaker
You know, we had a little glimpse of him in Justice League. Yeah. But, you know, this movie is all by himself. And, you know, Jason Momoa, who
00:18:47
Speaker
who is one of those actors that I always felt was looking in search of the right character. He did a Conan movie, and he was a good Conan, but it was a terrible movie. Right, that was the problem. I thought he was great in that movie, but the movie itself was not very good.
00:19:06
Speaker
Yeah. As a, as a matter of fact, and I know people are going to say it's sacrilegious, but actually seeing him as Conan, he looked more like Conan in my imagination than Arnold Schwarzenegger. Oh yeah, definitely. Like when I visualized Conan, I see him as looking more like Jason Momoa. Yeah. And he was great in, uh, in Game of Thrones too. When he played, uh, Cal Drago.
00:19:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But it was like he could never find that breakout character for him until Aquaman came along. And you know, part of me is a little disappointed that he played Aquaman because he would also have made an awesome Lobo. Yeah. Well, OK. Wasn't at one time there was talk that he was going to play Lobo? I don't know. I think there may have been.
00:19:53
Speaker
but I don't know, for whatever reason it just didn't happen, which is kind of disappointing because he looks like Lobo. Yes he does. He does. He looks just like him. Yeah. But you know, I gotta say when they first released, um, cause it was for, uh, I believe it was for, maybe it was for Batman V Superman. They released the first promo picture of him as Aquaman. And I remember people being like, Oh look, they're trying to be edgy with Aquaman now. I'm like, no, that is Aquaman from the comics.
00:20:20
Speaker
Yeah, that is Aquaman. That's how he's been for. But again, people, you know, like I said, most people, if you ask most people where they know Aquaman from, they know him from Super France. Yeah. They don't know him from the Peter David. You know, they don't know that run. Yeah. They don't know Grant Morris. You know, they don't know that. You know, you asked the average person, you know, matter of fact, here's a funny thing I want to bring up.
00:20:45
Speaker
When I went to see this movie in theater, of course, I dragged Patricia to see it, and I'm in the lobby, and I'm standing out there, and I like to eavesdrop on people as they come down to get the impression of what they thought of the movie. And you know that a lot of people thought that this was a Marvel movie. That makes sense, yeah. Yeah.
00:21:07
Speaker
And yeah, you know what, let's face it. In tone, in style, in look, this is a lot closer to say like Black Panther or Thor than any other DC movie that came before it. Oh, absolutely. And I think that's, this was like the big
Cinematic Comparison: Aquaman vs. Marvel Films
00:21:21
Speaker
shift. Cause you started to see it with Wonder Woman. But Wonder Woman still had kind of those Snyderisms in it, like especially in the third act. Whereas this one, you know, it just,
00:21:34
Speaker
It just totally wears its heart on its sleeve, and it just lets you know that, you know what, yeah, we're really committed to this character, to this movie, and we don't care how ridiculous this all seems. Exactly, which is the kind of tone that Marvel movies take. We don't care how ridiculous it is. We're committed to this. Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, like, see, like, they never explained
00:21:58
Speaker
why the Alanias could talk underwater. They just said, listen, they could talk underwater and hell with it. Don't worry about it. Just go. Remember in Justice League, there was that weird thing where Mera creates like an air pocket or something for them to talk in? Exactly. Exactly. She had to create an air pocket for them to talk. Yeah, and everybody was like, why are you going to so much trouble to try and explain this? And then James Wan like immediately came out and he said, no, we're not doing that shit in my movie.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, witchy. And you know what? I have to admit, I, you know, I only know James Wan from I know he's directed a bunch of horror movies, the insidious movies, which Patrick Wilson, who's in this movie, he's in those movies, I believe. Oh, yeah. I mean, like he uses him and Patrick Wilson are like best friends, I think, because he's like in every one of his movies.
00:22:43
Speaker
Oh, OK. Because I've never seen any of it. Matter of fact, the only James Wan movie I think I've seen is Saw and Furious 7. Now, based on those two movies, I would never suspect that he had this type of movie in him. Right. Because this movie has got the confidence of Steven Spielberg or of James Gunn or one of those guys that are used to these big mega budget
00:23:13
Speaker
you know, huge CGI spectacular, you know, the confidence with which this movie is directed is, you know, mind boggling to me. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's and you know, it's clear that James Wan's a fan. Like it's that you can tell there's a love for this character coming through on screen, which is not present in some of the other DC movies like that's not in
00:23:36
Speaker
Definitely not in Man of Steel or Batman v Superman. It's definitely not in Suicide Squad. But it is present in Wonder Woman. It is present in this. Yeah. Yeah, you can definitely tell that he loves the story. He loves the character. Whereas, like you said, in those other movies, it's like, especially like in Batman v Superman and in Man of Steel, especially Man of Steel, there's almost like a contempt for the character.
00:24:06
Speaker
And it would be so easy to do that with Aquaman with two decades now of bad stand-up routines about how lame Aquaman is. It would be so easy to go that route. But they don't. They keep it real. They keep it serious.
00:24:24
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, no matter how goofy this thing gets with this whole underwater civilization and, and then in the third act, it takes a swing in the Lovecraftian horror. It's like, I mean, you know, this movie just doesn't stop, you know, giving us surprises one after the other, giving us Black Manta.
00:24:45
Speaker
a black supervillain, and that was one of the things also about the comic books from the 60s when Black Manta finally revealed himself, and he was black, and he takes off his helmet, and he says the Aquaman. Well, what? You think I just was Black Manta just for the fun of it? No, I'm black. He was one of the first great black supervillains that we had. And played by Yaya Abdul-Mateen II, who was Dr. Manhattan in Watchmen.
00:25:14
Speaker
Right. Who we raved about when we did the Watchmen thing. This is where, you know, at least I saw him first, you know, this first, and he, and you know what, he commits to Black Manta, you know,
00:25:27
Speaker
we actually feel his pain because Aquaman in the best tradition of most superheroes, he's responsible for creating his own arch enemy. Yeah. And in fact, that's one of the things I really liked about this movie is that consequence that comes back to haunt him because he leaves Black Manta's father to die and he's reckless about it and he says, you know, ask the sea for mercy. And then Black Manta comes back after him.
00:25:57
Speaker
because of that, and he acknowledges the fact that, you know, I did this to him. Like, I can understand why he's coming after me. I really like that, that sense of, you know, there's a consequence for killing, for a superhero. Okay, but, and I've had this discussion with other people, and this has been a contention, this has been a point of contention with a lot of people who feel that, oh, well, he's supposed to be a superhero, he's not supposed to leave anybody to die.
00:26:24
Speaker
Yeah, but these guys just ruthlessly murdered a whole bunch of people on board this submarine who were just minding their business Right. I mean you can totally understand why that's that's what I love about it too because it's it's not black and white, right? It's not like he's This isn't like, you know the Punisher blowing people away. This is you know, this is a situation where Okay. Yeah, I can see why you'd leave him to die
00:26:49
Speaker
Yeah. And also let's not forget, he did, was trying to kill Aquaman while, you know, he was trying to kill him and that's what caused the torpedo to fall on him. Right. So he kind of like brought it on, which is what I took away from it. The Aquaman was saying, you know, well look, you brought this on yourself. So, you know, you got to deal with it, you know? So, I mean, right or wrong?
00:27:13
Speaker
Who knows, but I do agree with what you're saying, that I like how he did take responsibility for it and say, yeah, you know what, I did that to the guy. That's why it makes it so good, I think. Because the fact that, yeah, you can understand why he left them to die. It's not that he wasn't necessarily wrong, but he still takes that lesson from it. That's a mark of a hero, I think.
00:27:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like, he didn't do it out of spite, or he didn't do it out of maliciousness. Right. Anything like that. But, you know, he says, well, you know, listen, you came over here, and you, you know, you slaughtered up a bunch of people that were running their business, you know? So, you know, you got to take, you know, what fate has dealt you. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, but you know what? It is a good, better characterization among a whole lot of characterization in this movie of Aquaman, because while he comes across as being like,
00:28:06
Speaker
This big, dumb, goofy guy, we see that there are other things that are going on inside of him that he does feel some kind of responsibility that I don't think he was able to exercise until Mira comes along and takes him to Atlantis. Well, also, Ed, he proves that he's really intelligent himself. Like when he goes in the submarine, he's speaking like fluent Russian to the guys. And then when they're in Italy, and he says, Pops made sure I knew my history.
00:28:35
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, he is a small guy, even though I think that he likes to give the impression he's kind of big and dumb and goofy, which I think he expects people, you know, they see him as. But yeah, but and know what else I liked about that scene when he goes into the sub and he goes in there and he opens up the door. And like you say,
00:28:52
Speaker
You know, he's being fluent Russian. And when a Russian says, oh, thank God we're safe, it's Aquaman. We don't go through this usual thing like, oh my God, who are you? You know, everybody knows who Aquaman is. Yeah, yeah. You know, he's the guys, oh man, Aquaman, thank you, thank you. He said, yeah, okay, come on, let's get out of here. I'm missing happy hour.
00:29:11
Speaker
Yeah, right, he said, yeah, I'm missing a happy album. Let's go. But talking about the- But usually we get that scene where people will say, oh my God, who are you? I mean, people know who he is. Yeah, yeah. There's no I'm Aquaman moment like that in this, at least not in that way. But one of the things I also, talking about the characterization, so-
00:29:37
Speaker
Aquaman in the comics, like we said, he was very much, you know, very much more of a grim type of character, very much kind of a serious character. Like, not quite like Batman level, but he's much more, he's much more serious than like a lot of the other Justice League, and also a bit temperamental at times. But what I liked in this one, this may be my favorite take on Aquaman. I love Jason Momoa's surfer bro Aquaman.
00:30:04
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. As a matter of fact, I like, which I think has always been the hardest thing about Aquaman that writers have never got a handle on his personality, like in the Brave and Bold. I know you said you'd never seen it. No, but I've heard about this and I've seen clips that it's just like salty dog Aquaman type of thing. No, it's Hercules.
00:30:30
Speaker
OK. You know, from Marvel? Oh, OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. OK. Basically, they took Aquaman's person. They took.
00:30:39
Speaker
Hercules' personality from Marvel, it gave it to the animated Aquaman. So we got a different take on him there. And there was a period back in the 60s in the Aquaman comic books when you talk about Batman. Yeah, where he basically was like Batman underwater. He had an aqua cave. He had an aqua signal. His butler was an octopus.
00:31:09
Speaker
You know, yeah, seriously, you know, so yeah, so no, everybody, there are a whole lot of different version. I can't say that what versions of what iterations. There you go. Uh, I'll stick with version. There's a whole lot of, but I felt that with the, this surfer bro,
00:31:34
Speaker
I think Jason Momoa had a lot to do with that, that he created a persona that he could feel comfortable with. Right. And it works for this movie. Yeah, because they did a surfer bro Aquaman when he was on Smallville. But he just kind of came off as kind of a dumb frat boy in that. And it didn't really work. But him in this, it works with the way Momoa does it. I don't know. Something about Momoa's personality, it just kind of shines through in this character.
00:32:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That's why I think that a lot of that is him. Yeah. I think he had a lot of input into this version of Aquaman. Right.
Themes of Family and Heritage in Aquaman
00:32:14
Speaker
And it works. I mean, you know, listen, it worked for me. I, I sat there and I said, you know, and actually I was honestly surprised at how much I was enjoying the movie the first time I saw it. And I watched it earlier today and it was like I was watching it again for the first time. And matter of fact,
00:32:31
Speaker
I was watching even closer because the detail in this movie is so extraordinary that, you know, there was stuff I know I didn't see the first time around, you know, and I said, wow, I said, was that there before? But then I noticed that usually when I get home and I watch a movie on Blu-ray, there's a lot of more stuff that I see that I didn't see when I went to the theater, you know, when I saw it in the theater. Now, I don't know if that's because of the picture quality of the Blu-ray or whatever. You know, I have no idea, but
00:32:58
Speaker
It is what it is. I was just seeing a lot of stuff I didn't see before. Well, you know, something you said, like, watch how much you found yourself enjoying it, even the second time around. I had that kind of same feeling because I've seen this movie like maybe three times or so now, three or four times. And, you know, you watch these movies again and again and again, and eventually you get to a point where it's like, oh, yeah, you know, I can I'll put it on. I kind of like do other stuff. Like, this is one of those movies that
00:33:26
Speaker
I forget how good it is until I watch it again. And then when I watch it again, I'm like, damn, this is a good movie. Bingo. See, because that's what I thought I was going to do. I said, well, you know what? I put it on and I just had, you know, and I'll put it around and I'll do all the stuff, you know, while it's on, you know, and I'll just, you know, because I just wanted to refresh my memory. Right. I think after about like, by the time we get to the scene where Mira first comes out of the water,
00:33:52
Speaker
I was engrossed. I was sitting watching like I'd never seen it before. Same here. You know what really stood out to me this time in that scene is when the tidal wave is coming towards them and it seems like it's moving in slow motion. That is such a realistic depiction of how that really feels when you watch something like that happen. Because it does feel like it's happening in slow motion.
00:34:17
Speaker
Uh-huh. So I thought that was a really good touch that they did. It's something I never noticed before, but it jumped out at me this time.
00:34:25
Speaker
Yeah, and I mean, just like you said, I mean, it took me about like 30 minutes and forget about it. I was like, you know, and really, I was saying the same thing. I had forgotten how good this was, how good this movie actually is. And what I also noticed this time is that this movie plays against a lot of conventions that you would expect from a superhero movie. Like the scene when he's in the bar,
00:34:50
Speaker
right and the guy and the biker guys come up to him and they're like hey you're that fish guy right and then yeah and it looks like they're about to and it looks like they're gonna pick a fight with him and then they take out the guy takes out a phone which has a pink case no less can we get a picture with you you know you're a local hero
00:35:12
Speaker
But again, I like that because Aquaman is kind of like a public hero. I mean, everybody knows who he is. It's not like everybody's saying, oh, well, there's this mythical fish man that's going around. No, they know that there's a guy that can breathe underwater going around rescuing ships and stuff like that. They know him. Yeah, yeah. And I thought that was great, just like that moment. And then he kind of like, all right, fine. The first picture, he looks like he doesn't want to be there. But in the other pictures, he's getting into it.
00:35:42
Speaker
as they buy more and more beers apparently because there's one where they're picking them up, they're holding them up and eating them.
00:35:51
Speaker
But I love that. I just like like little moments like that where they kind of play against type. And, you know, something else I noticed, too, is there's an interesting racial contrast in this movie, right? Because it's different and they flip it from the comics because in the comics, you know, Aquaman is, you know, very Aryan type, right? Like blond hair, blue eyes, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, blond hair, blue eyes, yeah.
00:36:17
Speaker
And Ocean Master is like part Inuit, I think, or something like that. So he's the one who's like the minority character in this. But in this movie, they flip it, right? So here Aquaman is Polynesian.
00:36:33
Speaker
uh or half Polynesian because Jason Momoa is and then but then you got Ocean Master and you've got him as the blonde haired blue eyed type. Yeah yeah he's yeah the Aryan looking guy is the bad guy in this one yeah I thought that was a nice little twist they did and also and you know that was intentional because Patrick Wilson is a brunette in real life but here he's blonde. Oh yeah very blonde.
00:36:58
Speaker
very blonde, which is yeah, but I like but I liked that there's a there's an ethnic look to Aquaman. Yeah, same here. Oh, I liked it. You know, I liked that they went that way, you know, with them and they didn't go for, like you said, the traditional comic book.
00:37:16
Speaker
You know, look, I also love that his father was played by one of my favorite actors, Tamora Morrison. Yeah, he was great in this. Yeah, yeah, I really, yeah, you know what? That's a guy, and people don't realize how long he's been around. This guy's been acting, I remember seeing him back in the 1980s acting. He's been around for a long time, you know, so I was really delighted.
00:37:38
Speaker
to see him show up and i see that they use that the aging technology on him in the cold kid man yeah in the beginning when we first see them with the younger and also you know speaking of you know nicole kidman was great in this too so in fact i didn't even the first time i saw this i didn't realize it was her like i knew i'd recognize her i'm like who then later i found it was nicole kid like oh yeah.
00:38:01
Speaker
Yeah, you know what? The first time we saw it, we're sitting there and my wife is saying, you know, she leans over, she whispers to me, she said, is that Nicole Kidman? I said, I'm not sure, hold on a minute. And then later on when she's pregnant and she's got her hair down, she's got, I said, oh yeah, that is Nicole Kidman, okay. Yeah, that's what, when she was wearing the Atlantean suit, I wasn't too sure if that was her. I said, it looks kind of like her, but then later on,
00:38:25
Speaker
after she has the baby and she's got the long blonde hair and I said yeah okay that's her but yeah I mean she has she she has a small but pivotal role in this one yeah no and I'm glad that they went with the the original version where he's he is half Atlantean half human because I remember in the in the post crisis world he was like I believe he was full Atlantean if I'm not mistaken
00:38:56
Speaker
Well, I'm not sure about that. To me, Aquaman has always been half human, half Atlantean. That's kind of been like the shtick, because as they say repeatedly in this one, he's like the bridge between the two worlds. He is supposed to bring the surface world and the Atlantean world, he's supposed to bring them together.
00:39:18
Speaker
which makes it all that also is a good reason why they made the choice to make him mixed race because that is reflected um and like Momoa was able to draw from his own experiences growing up as a mixed race kid in like Oklahoma or something like that all right yeah exactly because he grew up in Hawaii or someplace I can't remember I think he was born in Hawaii but I think he was he grew up in like Oklahoma or the Midwest or something yeah yeah
00:39:46
Speaker
Yeah, I like they're able to draw that comparison and it especially works when you look at the conflict between him and Ocean Master because you've got Ocean Master is like the the area like like we said, you know, it was like the full Aryan type. He's full blooded Atlantean. But also the fact that
00:40:05
Speaker
Nicole Kidman's character that Atlanta does not die like everyone thinks she's died, I thought was a nice touch because this is a superhero movie where the superhero is not really defined by tragedy.
00:40:18
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. This is, this isn't like a Batman or a Superman where the parents get killed and that's his motivation for, you know, doing what he does. You know, the character doesn't need that. He, you know, he doesn't need, cause it's not that, first of all, it's not that type of character. Right. So I like that they did that, but they have, because, see, cause actually Aquaman isn't okay because
00:40:45
Speaker
Okay, now when you think about it, he's only a superhero when he's on land, because all Atlanteans have the same ability he does, except for being able to communicate with fish. And some of them have even more abilities, like Mara with her water powers. Right, she's got the Aqua Telekinesis to which she can control water, right, exactly. So actually, he really is only a superhero when he's on land. Yeah, and then even other Atlanteans, like you've got Tempest, who's got some sorcery powers as well.
00:41:15
Speaker
So yeah, there are all these other characters who have more powers than he does, but it's not about his powers. You're right, he is a superhero only when he's on land. That's when he becomes something different from the rest.
00:41:29
Speaker
Right, because as we see in this movie, you know, and I mean, him and Patrick Wilson, they had their fight. And I mean, Patrick Wilson taking just as much punishment as he is in dishing it out, too. Oh, yeah. So, you know, yeah. So it's only when he's on land that, you know, he's like something special, really. Yeah. And that's another thing, too, is the way that they play with kind of the structure, because, you know,
00:41:56
Speaker
Most superhero movies, they would say, OK, yeah, we're going to go on the quest first, and then we'll come back and deal with Ocean Master. But he decides to try and take a shortcut. And he's like, no, let's just fight. I'm here. Let's just fight now. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Well, like I said, that's one thing I like about this movie is that I love a movie that keeps me on my toes and does it because, like you said, usually they delay the big battle to the third act. Right. But no, no, Arthur says, no, listen, I'm here. Let's go. Listen, you know, let's do this shit. Yeah, yeah.
00:42:26
Speaker
That's a plucky, aren't we? And then also that scene, I mean, the frickin' octopus playing the drums. I love that. Yeah, again, that was when I saw it, I thought of the octopus from the comic
Atlantis Technology and Marvel Comparisons
00:42:41
Speaker
books. That was his mother. I said, wow, octopus. I forget what his name was. But yeah, I saw it with man, that is cool. I just like the look of Atlantis, right? Because Atlantis is one of those things where
00:42:55
Speaker
In the comics, it tends to be depicted as kind of like this old fashioned place. But I like what they've been doing in the, same thing with like Asgard, right? But I like what they're doing in the movies as they're depicting them as these places where they do have advanced technology. Yeah, that's what it reminded me most of. It reminded me sort of like Asgard but underwater. Right, yeah. It was very much that feel. They may have kind of like a rainbow bridge. Yeah, yeah.
00:43:24
Speaker
and just like all the different the way they handled the technology they had like these water-based weapons and stuff because you do wonder how would they how would they do that how would they have guns underwater but they they find really creative ways to deal with all this and also the whole idea of
00:43:39
Speaker
being able to breathe on land. Like, that was something I thought about. Like, well, how can Mara breathe on land when she's not half human? But you find out it's not because of Arthur's human side that he can breathe on land. It's because he's one of the high-born Atlanteans.
00:43:55
Speaker
Right. Like, yeah, like the high born and landings, they can breathe on land. Yeah. Which is because Mira, she's a because Mira, she's got royal blood, too. Yeah. And and in fact, another surprise was that her father is played by Dolph Lundgren, who fulfills the who the hell let him in this movie.
00:44:17
Speaker
Because every movie that I see, usually there was one role that I would look at it. I said, well, who the hell let him or her in this movie? Yeah, every movie I said, and then this one, when he pulls off the helmet and it's him, I said, holy shit, Dolph Lundgren, who the hell let him in this movie?
00:44:37
Speaker
But with the beard, I didn't even recognize him. Again, he's got his hair dyed red and everything. So I didn't recognize him until later. I read reviews. And they were saying, oh, yeah, Dolph Lundgren. I'm like, who's Dolph Lundgren playing? Oh, he was. Oh, yeah. It was a nice surprise to him and Willem Dafoe. Yes. Yeah, Willem Dafoe is always great to see. And they used the de-aging on him, too, in the training scene, which I thought was a nice little touch as well. I wrote a review of Aquaman. I said, you have not seen
00:45:07
Speaker
anything until you see Willem Dafoe on the back of a shark with laser cannons yelling attack the service dwellers. And you know probably the most surprising oh my god most surprising of all was uh Julie Andrews.
00:45:26
Speaker
Yes. As the voice of the, the carathen, or I can't remember exactly what the monsters called, but that big monster. I just called the Leviathan. Yeah. I mean, she, you got Julie Andrews to do that. I didn't even know she was still alive actually. Now. Okay. There's an interesting story behind this because
00:45:44
Speaker
She actually turned down a role in Mary Poppins returns right to do this. Yeah, I saw an interview with her and they said because you know, they got Dick Van Dyke back and they asked her to come back and she said, no, she didn't want to. So I saw an interview and they asked and said, well, why did you turn down Mary Poppins? That's like your iconic role to do. She said, listen, look,
00:46:06
Speaker
She said, I'm an old lady. She said, they offered me the same amount of money to voice a character into Aquaman. She said, I didn't have to get up early. I didn't have to put on makeup. I didn't have to deal with special effects. She said, all I had to do was just come to sit in the booth, record my dialogue in NASA and go home. Yeah, and they said that James Wan was like video conferencing in to do it. So he didn't even meet her in person for that. It was all just on the West Coast where she lives.
00:46:35
Speaker
Yeah. Which I can't blame. But she said, yeah, they paid me the same amount of money. She says, why not? Also, when asked about Mary Poppins, I thought she said something about that that was really classy, I thought. And she said, look, that's Emily Blunt's role now. And so I'm not going to step on her toes. And I thought that was a really classy thing for her to do.
00:46:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know what? Sometimes, matter of fact, I was just saying this early on today because I watched to digress just a little bit. I watched our Rambo Last Blood last night. Me and my wife watched it about like 10 o'clock at night. We watched it. We said, oh, it's on Amazon problem. Let's watch it. I watched it. And you know what?
00:47:23
Speaker
It's not that it was a bad movie, but it was an unnecessary movie. Right. Sometimes you have to know when to leave shit alone. Stallone had given Rambo a perfectly good ending to his story in the previous movie where he goes back home.
00:47:37
Speaker
And we see him in that last shot. He's walking to the farmhouse. Yeah, yeah. OK, that's it. We we did not need another Rambo movie. Yeah. Sometimes you have to know when to leave shit alone and just say, you know what, it's enough. I've done. And and that's what she did with Mary Poppins. And I applaud her for that. Like she said, you know, listen, it's time for let somebody else have that. Yeah. Yeah.
00:48:01
Speaker
So yeah, that's disappointing, just to continue with that digression. I was disappointed when I saw you post that about Last Blood, because I was looking forward to seeing that movie after how good Rambo was, because I thought, you know, now that Stallone has control over the character, and it's not like the studio's not begging him to, you know, do dumb sequels, that I thought it would be something like the last one, which was this really good, not only good action movie, just a really good character movie as well.
00:48:31
Speaker
Well, yeah, exactly. This one, you know, and I'm not saying don't watch it because you know what? I would have liked it better if it had not been a Rambo movie. If it had been like some other character that he was playing. Yeah. And it was a straight up, you know, revenge action movie. I would have liked it a lot better. I liked it because it
00:48:54
Speaker
To me, it tainted how good the previous movie was. It's like, OK, it's like Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. Yeah. Remember that? It ended how? With Indiana Jones riding off into the sunset. That's it.
00:49:09
Speaker
We could, we didn't need a kingdom of the Crystal Skull. No, no. That was the perfect ending for Indiana. He reconciled with his father and he's riding off into the sunset with his father and his best friends. Yeah. And that's it. Boom. We got a perfect trilogy. No, they had to go ahead and give us a perfectly unnecessary movie that nobody asked for. Nobody wanted, you know, that was not received well.
00:49:34
Speaker
You know, so again, like I said, sometimes you have to know when to leave shit alone. Also, you know, but that's enough. The Alien franchise did that, too, with because Alien, like, you know, I've said this many times, I will continue to say this many times. Alien 3 is actually a good movie and it's a perfect ending to Ripley's story because
00:49:57
Speaker
Each movie, she's been defined by tragedy. So when I never understood the people who were always complaining about, well, they killed Hickson Duke. No, it makes sense. It fits for that world. It's not a family franchise. It's a survival story.
00:50:12
Speaker
Oh, that's the one where she kills herself, right? She jumps in the... Yeah, right, yeah, exactly, exactly. They should have left it at that. Yeah, it was a perfect ending to the franchise. It's a good movie, especially if you watch the assembly cut, because there was a ton of studio interference. David Fincher was a first-time director in that, and...
00:50:32
Speaker
When they were doing the restorations for the DVD sets, he refused to participate at all. So they couldn't do a director's cut of it. So instead, what they did was they went and they made what was called the assembly cut from stuff based on the original script, stuff that he had shot that wasn't in the movie. And they put it all in this new version, which is much better than the theatrical version we got. But it's still, it's a good movie.
00:51:01
Speaker
And then it ends. It's the perfect way for Ripley's story to end with her sacrificing herself to kill the alien once and for all. And then they had to go and make alien resurrection. Oh, God.
00:51:18
Speaker
Which, you know, I love Josh Wieden, but he made some missteps on that. But one of the things I did like about that one was the, it's kind of like the genesis of Firefly with the space crew he's got there. Yeah, that's how I look at the movie. It's like he's trying out the Firefly concept almost.
00:51:41
Speaker
You know, before we get to Firefly, because, yeah, and I mean, and they just keep going back to the well over and over and over with that Prometheus, which, which I saw it and I know a lot of people, they love that movie and I like it. I don't love it because it's not the movie I was promised. Yeah. And then they came out with Alien Covenant, which I don't know what the hell to say about that movie. I fell asleep during that.
00:52:06
Speaker
Listen, my brother, if you put a gun to my head, people ask me, how come you never wrote a review of a comment? I said, because if you put a gun, loaded gun to my head and threatened to blow my brains, I could not explain you what that movie was about. No, no, absolutely not.
00:52:20
Speaker
There's no way I can explain you what that movie was about. OK, so now we digress a lot. Going back to Aquaman, the movie we're supposed to be talking about. Oh, that's right. We're supposed to get used to it, folks. This stuff happens. So. Mera, I thought Amber Heard. That is Amber Heard, right? I thought she did a good job. Like, I've never really.
00:52:45
Speaker
cared much one way or the other about Mera in the comics, but I thought she did a really great job in making me care about this character. I had never even really cared much about Amber Heard as an actress until this movie. You know, I don't even remember it. I'm pretty sure I've seen her in other stuff, but it didn't come, you know, it didn't come to mind. Right. Yeah. I mean, she, she actually did bring this character to life and
00:53:13
Speaker
She gave Mira a purpose. Like everybody always said, well, you know, we don't want the female character to be just, you know, like a sidekick to the male character.
Character Analysis: Mera's Role and Depth
00:53:23
Speaker
No, she had a definite role in this movie to play. And yeah, okay.
00:53:31
Speaker
You get the usual thing where they're bickering back and forth and, you know, she thinks he's a Claude and he thinks that she's a little bit arrogant and prissy. But you know what? That's par for the course. And it's so entertaining watching them go back and forth that I didn't mind.
00:53:48
Speaker
Yeah, same here. And you know, it's kind of interesting because even though you've got Volko in this movie and he's supposed to be kind of the mentor figure, it's really Mera who has more of a mentor figure than Volko is, I think.
00:54:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we, we get Volko in a couple of scenes where he's a training author when he's a boy, like he teaches him how to swim. I love that scene where he says, well, I'm going to teach you how to swim. He says, well, I already know how to swim. Volko says, no, you don't. Yeah.
00:54:22
Speaker
And then he does teach him how to really swim. And when he does, the author says, oh yeah, you're right. I didn't know how to swim before. I want to teach you how to swim like in Atlantean. But yeah, we see a couple of scenes where he teaches, presumably he taught him how to fight because we see the trick he teaches him with the trident and everything like that. But it's Mira who actually,
00:54:50
Speaker
instills, she's his conscience through the movie, basically. And she instills in him a sense of responsibility to his heritage. Yeah, yeah. And she's just, you know, something else about this movie, which we kind of touched on a little bit, was just the visuals in this film are amazing.
00:55:09
Speaker
Oh man, please. And what I especially love is they don't shy away from any of the comic book stuff, right? They're like, Black Manta, you know, are we going to have him be, you know, just a guy in like a black suit? No, we're giving him the freaking big ass helmet. Yeah. Yeah. I said, Oh my God, they gave him the helmet. Yeah.
00:55:30
Speaker
I loved it. And they did the different iterations of it too, right? He looked like he stepped right out of the comic book. But I liked the two that they showed the different versions of it he's worn in the comics. So you see him when he's working on it, it's this one shape and he's like, no, not that. And then he changed it to something bigger.
00:55:49
Speaker
And there's one point that he actually blows up the helmet. And he says, whoops. He says, that's not going to work. Because he's trying to get the configuration right so that he can have the laser beams come out of the eyes. Yeah. And I do love that, too, is he's using his own engineering skills to repurpose Atlantean technology. And they show you. Yeah. He's not only, he's not just someone who's getting this technology from Orm. He's someone who he takes it and then he makes it his own.
00:56:20
Speaker
Yeah, he refines it, and yeah, he tweaks it, and he says, okay, well, I can do this, I can do this. Like you said, he makes it his own, which, yeah, is more interesting than him just taking Atlantean technology and saying, okay, well, I'm gonna use this again. I mean, he does use it against Aquaman, but he reconfigures it, he rejiggers it, and he comes up with something unique, which is what he wants. He wants to make a statement.
00:56:46
Speaker
And also, you mentioned earlier about how Aquaman's, one of the things they've done in the later comics is show how tough he is because he has to survive in the crushing depths of the ocean. And I really like that they did a good job of portraying that. I mean, you know, Black Manta's father shoots him with a fucking grenade and he's just like singed.
00:57:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it's you point blank. And if Aquaman has any one main superpower is that he is tough as heck, you know, cause he gets knocked around a lot. He gets, there's that amazing fight scene.
00:57:25
Speaker
that they have during that Plaza. And they're running through the Plaza and the Atlanteans are chasing Mira and Black Manta is chasing him. And he just repeatedly blasted over and over and over again. And I said, wow, he has taken a lot of punishment. That scene was so good.
00:57:41
Speaker
and that was one of the best fight scenes i've ever seen in any superhero movie right there that that fight scene that's in that plaza and i also just love the little humorous asides um mamoa throws in like when they're in the in the deserter temple and she drained some water from his head to activate the the mechanism and he says well you know he could have just peed on it
00:58:06
Speaker
She just looks at her, you know, oh my God. Yeah. But you know, the guys got a point there. And when they when they're on when they're in Italy and she sees the Pinocchio storybook and she's like, this is where you got your brilliant idea from.
00:58:25
Speaker
But he, but also going back to what you said about him being smart. He's the one that figures out how they have to put the bottle on the statue in order to see the location of where they got to go. Right. Yeah. He's able to solve that riddle. Yeah. He's the one that figures it out with, you know, which, okay. Well, he, again, going back, I think a large part of that surfer bro
00:58:50
Speaker
persona that he presents is just as disguised the fact that he's really a very smart guy. Yeah. Yeah. And then also, I mean, they,
00:59:00
Speaker
like all the technology they show in Atlantis. Like I love that scene you mentioned before with Willem Dafoe riding the shark, but I love that that they're using like sea animals like that and you've got sharks with like armor on them and seahorses. Yeah, they've got armor and laser rifles and they've got you know the crabs with armor and
00:59:23
Speaker
and the alligator things with, like I said, there's so much detail that's in the movie that when I saw it today, I had noticed the first time around. Like during the combat scene, I actually paused it a couple of times. I was looking, I said, wow. I said, I never noticed that before. And it's just, yeah, I mean, you know what?
00:59:42
Speaker
They did not skip on this movie. No, not at all. They did not skip. They said, James Wan apparently said, no, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do this right. And you got to give me the money to do this right. Yeah. Like I love this one scene where Mira, I think it's before the ritual combat that they have. And she's wearing this gown and it's a gown that's made of.
01:00:05
Speaker
um what's the thing a jelly it's got yeah it's got like this jellyfish on the back it's got like these tentacles it's like this i would never have thought of something like that
01:00:15
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah, I would never thought about it. I mean, it's obvious that, you know, he said, you know what, if we're going to do this, we're going to do it right. And again, I made the comparison to Black Panther and Thor in that this is an entire culture that we see on screen. Yeah. And they put a lot of thought into defining that culture and what they wear, what they what what what their armor looks like, what their clothes look like. I mean, all of it, it's just a it's a brilliant bit of world building.
01:00:46
Speaker
Yeah, you know, visually, and I usually don't like to say this about a lot of movies. But yeah, you can, seriously, you can watch Aquaman and just get lost in the visuals.
01:00:59
Speaker
Well, I mean, that's another thing I liked about this movie is that so much of it actually does take place underwater, right? Because normally a movie like this, it would be like the first Thor movie, which don't get me wrong. I think that's a good movie, but they did not want it. It's clear that they were worried about being an Asgard too much. So that's why it's all mostly set in this small town. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't until we got the second movie that we really got.
01:01:28
Speaker
most of the movie was set in Asgard. Right, exactly, yeah. And that was one of the weaknesses of the first Thor movie, I thought, is that there's, you know, Asgard looks so amazing. And, you know, Kenneth Branagh did a great job of filming, of making you believe that place, but we don't get to spend enough time in there.
01:01:50
Speaker
Right. Not so in this movie. We used to spend a lot of time. Like you said, we waste no time getting to Atlantis. Yeah. You know, yeah, we have, you know, we have them. We have what I think it's like the first 15 minutes of the movie is on land.
01:02:06
Speaker
But then Mira gets them and then we go to Atlantis. It's like the next like 20 minutes of the movie is in Atlantis. Then we go back to the surface world. Then we go back to Atlantis. So, you know, yeah, it's yeah. Yeah. And they define the the different kingdoms of Atlantis and like they give you a bit of the history of it. Like all of this is really well thought out. Like I said, they somebody
01:02:33
Speaker
I don't know if it was James Wan. I don't know who it was. Somebody said, know what? If we're going to do this, we're going to do this right. And they did. And speaking of doing it right, I mean, they use Aquaman's classic costume in this.
Aquaman's Iconic Costume and Comic Accuracy
01:02:46
Speaker
I was not expecting that at all.
01:02:49
Speaker
No, I was not. I mean, he gets the Trident, he comes out, and it's the gold scale male shirt and the green tights. Never in my mind. When I first saw that original promo image of Aquaman, Jason Momoa's Aquaman, I thought to myself, you know what? You will never see this guy in the classic Aquaman costume.
01:03:13
Speaker
Well, no, because in Justice League, we didn't see him in it. No, no, it was like this heavy armor thing he was wearing. Ryan, yeah. But here, just like with Black Manta, just like with Mera's costume, they go full-on comic book look in this, and I love that. And I don't know, for some reason, you know what?
01:03:36
Speaker
Okay, Aquarius costume is gold and green. For some reason, it shouldn't work, but it does. Yeah, yeah.
01:03:45
Speaker
I mean, and Jason Momoa being a big muscular guy, he knows how, okay, he knows how to sell that costume because like you said, when he shows up and he's got to try it and he shows up in the costume, he actually does look very regal in it. He looks like a king. I never thought that costume would look so amazing. Yeah, that, yeah, it looks spectacular. I said, whoa. Matter of fact, when I, again, when I saw it in theater, when he showed up in it,
01:04:14
Speaker
The audience went crazy. They were screaming and cheering and clapping and, oh, shit about to get real. Yeah, somebody just, I think it was me, but anyway. And also that whole scene that we get with this mother and we get with the Leviathan, like I said,
01:04:41
Speaker
That's when the movie goes into that Lovecraftian angle, which actually was foreshadowed at the beginning when Arthur's father, I believe his name is Tom Curry, he finds his mother and she's on the couch and there's the snow globe that's got the little lighthouse in it and is sitting on a HP Lovecraft book. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, and I looked and I said, wait a minute,
01:05:09
Speaker
They're showing that, okay, they're showing it kind of prominently. And whenever they show something like that very prominently, I always think of Alfred Hitchcock or who was it? Somebody who said that if you show a gun in the first act, you better fire it off in the third act. Right, right, right. Chekhov's gun. Right. Well, in the third act, yeah, it does get fired up because the Leviathan
01:05:34
Speaker
is basically one of Lovecraft's great old gods that Aquaman brings to the battle.
01:05:43
Speaker
That was. It changes the whole tide of battle. Yeah, and just like the way he's commanding like all the sea life at that moment. Like that is just, that was just an incredible, you know, again, chalk this up to things I never thought I would see in a movie. I never thought I'd see Aquaman riding a giant sea monster as he's commanding like an army of sharks in live action. I mean, really, how much more badass do you get than that? Yeah.
01:06:12
Speaker
You know, not only do you have a leviathan, you're riding a leviathan, but you've got an army of sharks. Please. See, I, see, well, see, that's why I'm not a super villain in a movie. Cause I had a game, but okay. Take the throne. I don't care. I'm going, but no, not ocean master. Yeah.
01:06:39
Speaker
And something else I liked about this too is how his mother intervenes at the end. And Orm tells him, sparing my life is not our way. And he's like, well, yeah, I'm not one of you. I like that he does that and he shows that compassion. And you get the sense that he doesn't hate his brother, right? Even after everything. He believes that there's a chance for redemption, a chance for reconciliation.
01:07:07
Speaker
Because he even says to him, as they're taking him away, the last thing he says to his mother, he says, listen, I'm going to come see you, and we're going to talk. Yeah. And I like that. You know what? Not every superhero movie has to end with the bad guy getting killed. Right, right.
01:07:23
Speaker
I think that part of that has to be credited to the Thor franchise, because that's very much the kind of relationship between Thor and Loki in the MCU movies. Even after everything Loki's done, Thor still wants to believe that his brother can change.
01:07:41
Speaker
Yeah. Which is one of the good things that I like about the Thor movie. I know a lot of people, they don't like the Thor movies, especially the dark world. They don't, you know, they don't like it, but you know what? I like it because of that relationship between, you know, the brothers. Oh, same here. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, Thor knows that Loki is going to sell him out any chance he gets, but he still will not allow himself to fully disown his brother. And he's always going to believe that there's a part of him that can be reached.
01:08:10
Speaker
Yeah, see, Loki, I'd never cared much for him in the comics, but I love him in the movies just for that reason because Tom Hiddleston does such a great job of towing that line that I don't think a lot of writers are really able to capture in the comics. I don't, you know what, I don't, yeah, I mean,
01:08:30
Speaker
Back in the Kirby days, Loki was kind of just like one dimensional. It was like, kill Thor, kill Odin, take over Asgard. That was it. But in the movie, it's more like he just wants to feel like he's, basically he wants to feel like he's part of the family. He doesn't feel like he's part of family. Yeah, yeah. And he wants to feel like he's part of, that's all he ever wanted, to feel like he's truly part of the family.
01:09:00
Speaker
You know, this reminds me, there's this meme that was going around. It shows Anthony Hopkins when he was young, it shows Tom Hiddleston, it shows Kate Blanchett, and then it shows Chris Hemsworth. And it's like, you know, all those three, you know, young Anthony Hopkins, Loki, and Hella, they've all got, you know, dark hair and dark features. And then you got Thor, blonde hair, blue eyes. And it says like, are we sure that Thor was the, Loki was really the adopted one?
01:09:26
Speaker
I know, right? Maybe Thor was the adopted one. Yeah, they do have that kind of take on that a similar type of relationship between Orm and Arthur in this that I thought was a nice touch. Even though Orm is a bit more one-dimensional than Loki is in the movies, and that's probably the one complaint I would probably have about this movie is that
01:09:55
Speaker
Orm doesn't really seem like, and you know, no disrespect to Patrick Wilson, because I think he does the best he can with what he has.
01:10:05
Speaker
Well, Patrick, you know what? Patrick Wilson is a good enough actor. I think that what he did, he drew a point Shakespeare for this because he gives the character a kind of Shakespearean type of grandeur. Yeah. Especially when he's addressing the armies and he's trying to, you know, stir them up to go war against the surface world and everything like that. And he's making these bombastic speeches about how a half breed will never rule Atlantis. And he's going to do this. He's going to do that. So he's a good enough actor that I think he's trying to transcend.
01:10:35
Speaker
that one dimensional quality of, because Orm has pretty much got only one motivation in this. And that's to make war against the surface. Well, for what reason we don't know. He just feels that Atlanta should be ruling everything. Like in the old days, basically that's it, you know?
01:10:54
Speaker
It's not like Loki, who does have a multitude of little stratagems and things that he's, you know, doing. He's a manipulator and he basically wants to manipulate other people to do things for him. He doesn't do his own dirty work. Unlike Orm, who, yeah, he's very much a hands-on type of bad guy.
01:11:16
Speaker
He does his own dirty work, which I like. I like a bad guy that doesn't mind doing his own dirty work. Right. And also, I did like, and again, just going back to how accurate this movie is, they gave Orm that Ocean Master helmet with the spikes coming out of it.
Realism in Underwater Scenes of Aquaman
01:11:34
Speaker
like everything about this movie's design and just like even the way they film stuff underwater right how they have the they move like they're underwater right it doesn't feel like it's just um they just say they're underwater but really they're it feels like they're moving in water in the in those scenes yeah like i like back in the old days they would
01:11:57
Speaker
film people like underwater but you could tell it wasn't really underwater right they have like fake bubbles and everything like that but yeah in this movie yeah you definitely do feel like they actually are underwater and you know amazing kudos to the the effects guys because they really they really made you believe that and that was one of the things that everyone was worried about with this movie like how can you really
01:12:22
Speaker
film a movie like that and make you believe that they're actually underwater. And they were able to do it. I don't know how they did it, but they were able to do it. Well, listen, they had me convinced. That's all I have to say. And again, if anybody had ever told me, I have to go back to, again, Thor and Black Panther. If anybody had ever told me that there would be an Aquaman movie this good, I'd laugh myself into a hernia. Oh, yeah.
01:12:50
Speaker
And there was another attempt to do Oppoman, right? Back when they were doing, in the Smallville days, they had done a pilot for an Oppoman TV show called Amnesty Bay, I think it was called.
01:13:04
Speaker
Yeah, matter of fact, I do believe it's still up on YouTube. If anybody listening wants to go check it out, yeah, the pilot is still up there. Because there was an Aquaman in Smallville, right? This was not the actor who played him in Smallville, but it was another actor from Smallville. It was Justin Hartley who played Green Arrow on Smallville.
01:13:28
Speaker
right he played aquaman in that in that pilot that wasn't picked up i don't you ever see that pilot i never saw it myself i saw it but that was like years ago okay do you remember anything about it or not a thing okay so i'm guessing it was it wasn't big big loss that it never went to series which means it which means it couldn't have been memorable because i were absolutely i remember nothing about it but
01:13:49
Speaker
Like, and like I said, I just went to see, you know, like out of curiosity, because, you know, I read something online. They said, oh, well, there was an Aquaman power. That's not what it was. You know, when I checked it out and said, oh, OK, but like I said, that was that was like eight years ago. I don't remember anything about it.
01:14:07
Speaker
Yeah, DC had a, they made a few attempts at pilots.
Evolution of Superhero Cinema
01:14:10
Speaker
Like they did the Aquaman one, they did the Wonder Woman one with Adrian Palicki. And then- Yeah. And they also, the infamous Justice League pilot. Oh my God, yeah. Yeah, I've seen that. Oh my God, that thing. Yes, Lord have mercy. But they finally got it right though, thank God, with this movie.
01:14:37
Speaker
And I don't know, it's just like everything, there's so much good in this movie and they don't shy away from anything in it.
01:14:47
Speaker
And I really, oh, one thing I did wanna mention is the scene at the beginning with Atlanta when she wakes up and she sees the goldfish and she eats it. Yeah, she eats it, yeah. And he comes out, he's like, well, I was gonna make you eggs. Yeah, he said, please don't eat my dog. Yeah. Because he don't know, the guy just pulled out the water. He doesn't know what she's gonna do.
01:15:12
Speaker
Yeah, you know, and it cannot be stressed enough how how how we're living in such a golden age of superhero cinema, where the technology and storytelling techniques. And not only that, but you have people who okay,
01:15:34
Speaker
Like back in the day, people made those pilots like we were talking about like the Justice League pilot and stuff like that. Stuff like that was considered to be made for kids. And I said, well, this is like Saturday morning stuff. But now you have highly regarded filmmakers and technical people and writers and stuff like that who
01:15:55
Speaker
take this material and look upon it as Stan Lee so many times said, this is our modern mythology. And that's how they treat it. They treat it, this is our modern mythology. In fact, I think it was Kevin Smith who he spoke to James Wan and he asked him, he loved the fact that they kept in the comic costumes and everything. But he asked him, he's like, well, I'm curious though, why did you do that? Why didn't you try to modernize him, update him? And James Wan said, he's like, those costumes are perfect.
01:16:25
Speaker
They're modern mythology. There's nothing to change.
01:16:30
Speaker
Exactly. It's not a thing to change. And you know something? To me, that says more about a creative artist that says, you know something? I'm going to take this as it is, and I'm going to make it work than somebody else who says, well, I'm going to totally transform the character. Well, we have to make it modern for a modern audience, because a modern audience, they won't take. And then they proceed to transmogrify the character in such a way that I sit there and I say, well, why don't you just go and make your own original character? Yeah.
01:17:00
Speaker
and then you eventually and then that ends and then you end up getting nipples on a batman's costume yeah if you were going to transmogrify the character this much you might as well just went ahead and made your own original character right you know so yeah and i'm glad they didn't do that i'm glad that
01:17:19
Speaker
DC in general has done a really like that's that's one thing that even the even the crappy DC movies like I cannot fault them for the DCU because they're they're staying very true to the costumes and the looks of the comics. Yeah, yeah, which I which I myself, I appreciate the exception of the exception of Joker, which I don't know what they were thinking. Oh, please, let's say about Joker, the better.
01:17:48
Speaker
I mean, I still don't know what kind of drugs they were smoking that day when they came up with that guy for, you know, I really don't. Yeah. I never understood why they felt that the Joker just being the Joker is not edgy enough. And so they had to go through and put like tattoos all over him.
01:18:09
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, and to me, okay. Okay. And don't get me wrong. I don't mind tweaking a character here and there. Okay. Because it's to be expected, you know, you tweak a character here and there, but when you change a character that radically to me, you've created a new character.
01:18:29
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Which to me, like I said, that character that's in that movie Suicide Squad, I don't consider him, he's a joker, but he's not the joker. Right, right. And that's something we talked about this before, that's something the MCU movies have also done really well, is they've stayed relatively true to the comic costumes, like they've tweaked them, but they're still relatively what you see in the comics.
01:18:55
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. As long as I can look at the character and say, OK, well, that's Iron Man. That's Captain America. That's Scarlet Witch. As long as I can do that, I can point at that character and I still recognize him. I'm good.
01:19:12
Speaker
You know, but once you've like, I remember there was a there was an animated Batman series a couple of years back called The Batman. Oh, yeah, I remember that. OK, and the character that was supposed to be the Joker, I thought he was the creeper. Oh, that was such a strange design. Like I know in later seasons they had they got such pushback on that and later seasons they made him more like the classic Joker.
01:19:36
Speaker
Yeah, and I mean, it was a perfectly good series. Matter of fact, I liked that series because it didn't focus so much on, okay, you had to joke a show for one episode, but it kind of like focused on the villains that you don't normally see in a Batman animated show.
01:19:54
Speaker
You didn't have Catwoman and the Riddler and Penguin. They were mentioned, but you had the second tier level, Batmanville. But they had the Joker, and so helped me. Until they said it was the Joker, I said, oh, the creeper. I saw the commercial. I saw, oh, the creeper's going to be guest starring in it. Cool. Because that's what I thought it was. Again, like I said, it was such a radical design that as far as I was concerned, that was a brand new character.
01:20:20
Speaker
Yeah. And also they had, I can't remember the name of the guy who voiced him, but it's someone that just does not, his voice does not fit the Joker at all. Yeah.
01:20:34
Speaker
I mean, no disrespect to that actor. He's a good actor, right? Oh, no, no. I mean, hey, listen, guy needs a paycheck. Listen, I don't fault anybody for making a paycheck, getting a paycheck. But yeah, that design was, again, like I said, that design was just so radical that, no, I didn't see the Joker that I knew in that character. Kevin Michael Richardson, that was it.
01:21:00
Speaker
Okay, and you know he's a good actor. He's got a great voice, but that is not a Joker voice Yeah, he does a lot of voice work. Yeah
01:21:10
Speaker
But yeah, that series, I remember a lot of people panned it when it came out just because it wasn't Batman the Animated Series and it wasn't Kevin Conroy. But I haven't seen the whole thing. I've seen a few episodes of it and I liked it. It's got its own thing and I thought it was a neat little take on it. Yeah, I liked it too and you're very accurate. You hit the nail right on the head.
01:21:34
Speaker
People didn't like it for what it was. They didn't like it because it wasn't Batman in the animated series. And it wasn't supposed to be Batman in the animated series. And it didn't last long. I think it lasted like maybe two seasons. I think it went to four seasons. Four seasons? OK. Well, I only saw like two or three.
01:21:54
Speaker
What I did see of it, I liked it. You know, I mean, as we said before, Batman contains multitudes. You can present them in a whole bunch of different ways. And none of them are wrong. Right. As far as I'm concerned, I don't know that somebody out there may have a different opinion. But, you know, even the versions I don't like, I say, OK, well, that's cool. You know, that's you know, that's just another version of Batman. Yeah. Yeah.
01:22:21
Speaker
OK, so we're digressing again away from Aquaman. But so is there anything else we have to say about Aquaman? Because I think I'm pretty much setting my piece on it. Well, listen, there is there's not much OK. What we're going to have to do is that we're going to start picking movies that we can't pick apart because I really I have nothing bad to say about Aquaman. I really don't. This is
01:22:51
Speaker
is right up there as far as I'm concerned with the first Captain America, the first Thor, Black Panther, Wonder Woman. Matter of fact, I will go so far as to say that this is my favorite DC superhero, live action, DC superhero. Yeah, you know what? I'm gonna agree with that because, well, if we're talking all DC movies, then it's hard to,
01:23:21
Speaker
It's hard to discount Superman, the movie. Oh, yeah. Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, OK, yeah. And we're talking about all of them. But we're talking about like the current recent crop of, you know.
01:23:36
Speaker
The recent crop, this is probably the best one out of them. Yeah, you know what's interesting about this for me is that I put it slightly above Wonder Woman because, and here's the reason why, I think Wonder Woman overall is a better movie, but I think Aquaman is more consistently better.
01:23:57
Speaker
Right, because Wonder Woman, it's got a great first act, a great second act, and then it kind of falls apart in the third act. But Aquaman is consistent. It's good from beginning to end. It doesn't have a third act slump. Yeah, yeah, I would go along with that. It's consistently good all the way through. Wonder Woman, yeah, that third act is kind of shaky. Yeah, yeah.
01:24:22
Speaker
It's kind of shaky, but in, but like in turn, ain't no something. It's one of those things that, okay, if I watch Wonder Woman,
DC Films: Rewatchability Debate
01:24:31
Speaker
okay, well, okay. Well, that's my favorite. I like that. Then, then when I watch Aquaman, okay, yeah, this is my favorite, you know, that kind of thing going on. Yeah, I agree with that. But again,
01:24:42
Speaker
I could watch Wonder Woman and Aquaman over and over again in a way that I can't watch like Man of Steel. Like Man of Steel, if I never saw Man of Steel again, it'd be all right with me. If I never saw Batman versus Superman again, it'd be all right with me. But I could see myself...
01:25:01
Speaker
going back and watching Wonder Woman and Aquaman over and over again. At least, you know, once a year, I could go back and watch them over and still enjoy them. But those like those other two? No, I could even watch Justice League. I like Justice League. A lot of people do. A lot of people look at me like I've got holes in my head. But yeah, I even like Justice League. Now, nowhere near as much as I like. These these two movies, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, but I still enjoy it. Justice League is not bad, but it's broken.
01:25:31
Speaker
Yes, it is. Because it's trying to please two masters, is the problem with that. It's a deeply, it's a deeply flawed movie. And matter of fact, it was something...
01:25:42
Speaker
It's a movie where you can see the parts working. Mm hmm. You can see the man behind the curtain. Yeah. Like I said, I thought that like I thought Justice League like I thought especially the the Whedon stuff when they brought him on and to like to redo the Superman stuff. The Superman in Justice League was the best Superman that we've seen on in the DC movies, the modern DC, which is which is why I like it, because that's yeah, that's the best Superman we've we've seen.
01:26:10
Speaker
Right? Like he's funny. He's charming. He's decent. Right? There's that scene where, you know, you know, she comes back and she's like, you smell nice. And he says, did I not before? Whereas the only thing about Batman versus two, if I could get a version that just had the Batman and Wonder Woman stuff, I could.
01:26:33
Speaker
If I could pay somebody to re-edit that movie so it's just Batman and Wonder Woman, I could watch it. Yeah, I wonder if someone could do that with Iron Man 3 and edit out the stuff with the Mandarin reveal. Uh-huh. Because that was my biggest sticking point. And it was a bit too goofy in places, I thought. Oh, and also everything with that little kid. I hated that little kid.
01:26:57
Speaker
because anything that was Superman in that movie, and Lex Luthor, I can't stand. But when it's Batman and Wonder Woman, it's a terrific movie. Yeah. But yeah, Justice League did have its moments. I loved Aquaman and that. I liked Batman a lot more. I thought Ben Affleck did a much better job. He wasn't as grim Batman as he was in BVS.
01:27:22
Speaker
You know, making jokes like when he's talking to Aquaman, he says like, he's like, can you really talk to fish? Yeah. And when he says that, then when he picks up the flash and flash is like, what's your superpower? He's like, I'm rich.
01:27:34
Speaker
I'm rich. Yeah. You know, like, you know, what other superpowers do I need? And I, and one of my favorite scenes is when he's talking to Jeremy Irons who plays Alfred and they're reminiscing. And, you know, Alfred said, don't you miss the days when all we had to deal with was, you know, penguins that fire rockets and stuff like that. Yeah. Which, which, and then, you know, he hit me and then I said, you know, something, yeah, I could see this as being the Michael Keaton and Michael Gaug.
01:28:02
Speaker
Batman and Alfred, 20 years down there. Yeah, I said, okay, I can see it. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. But I like that. It's a little thing, but it's usually the little things that make me smile. Right. I got a kick out of that. Yeah. And the only character I really had a problem with in that movie was the Flash. But other than that, I thought all the rest of the Justice League. A lot of people didn't like Cyborg, but I thought Cyborg was fine in that movie.
01:28:26
Speaker
I like everybody except for because to me that wasn't Barry Allen. That was impulse. Exactly. Well, it's the same thing in the X-Men movies when they had Quicksilver in there. That wasn't Quicksilver to me. That was impulse.
01:28:43
Speaker
Yeah, that was impulse. Yeah, that wasn't Quicksilver. It sucks that he didn't get more movies, but Aaron Taylor Johnson in Age of Ultron, he was Quicksilver from the comic books. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, that guy. Yeah, exactly. That was Quicksilver. Yeah, yeah.
01:29:04
Speaker
All right, so I think that's about all we have to say about Aquaman. Basically, sum up, if you haven't watched this movie, I don't know what's wrong with you, because it's amazing. I have no idea what's wrong. If you have not seen Aquaman by now, it's only because you don't want to see it. But take it from me. You're really missing out if you've never seen Aquaman. And of course. Also, I forgot to mention, but we've got Randall Park has a small part in this movie, too, as Dr. Shin.
01:29:34
Speaker
Yeah. Like I love Randall Park and everything. I've loved him ever since I saw him in, oh, what's that TV show? Fresh Off The Boat. Like he's just, he's great in like everything he does. Like I love him in the Ant-Man movies when he plays Jimmy Woo. I love him. And it was in that movie, that Netflix movie with Ali Wong that was, he was great in that too. Like he's a really underrated comedic actor, I think.
01:30:00
Speaker
Cause they kind of set him up, but he's going to play a bigger role in the sequel. Cause he finds black Manta after the fight. We have like one of those little more, which is why I guess a lot of people thought that this was a Marvel movie because we had the scene that came after the credits where we see that, uh, you know, the doctor, cause he's like a conspiracy theorists and, uh, he finds black Manta and you know, he bandages them up and everything like that. And they make a deal.
01:30:28
Speaker
you know so yeah so obviously they're setting them up for a bigger role for the sequel yeah i mean uh abdul matin he said that um black manta is going to play a bigger role in the sequel and um you know that's one of the things that you know this movie they threw everything in this movie so left me wondering afterwards like what are they going to do for a sequel now
01:30:50
Speaker
But you know what, again, I'm glad that they did not kill off the bad guys, because not every superhero, it doesn't have to be a thing where they killed the bad guy that sat there. Oh, because all the bad guys are still left alive at the end of the movie. Right. Yeah.
Director's Freedom in Modern Superhero Films
01:31:03
Speaker
Yeah. All the bad guys are left alive. So that, you know, yeah, you know, so they'll come back. That was the problem that they had with the Batman movies. Remember, they kept killing off the bad guys. Right. Yeah.
01:31:14
Speaker
And a lot of the, some of the Marvel movies have made that mistake too. Like they killed off, they seem to kill off the Red Skull, then we found out he's back in Endgame in a way. They, you know, they killed, destroyed Ultron, huh? Claw, they killed off Claw. Yeah, that was the biggest mistake. Yeah, that's like, you know, that's like the Black Panthers, first of all, you never kill off superheroes, Archie, nemesis, you don't, that's like,
01:31:42
Speaker
Pluto should never get killed. The Joker should never get killed. You know, there's, you know, you always got to have the arch enemy to be the ying to the hero's yang. Right. You know, so yeah. So me, I was, I was pleased to see that black man was still alive at the end of this week.
01:32:05
Speaker
But I think that's why a lot of people thought that this was a Marvel movie. Because I did. I had people that were saying, oh, how come Iron Man wasn't in this movie? Usually he shows up in it. I said, well, because it wasn't a Marvel movie. Because it's a funny thing. A lot of people, of course, you and I, we know this comic book stuff probably better than any human being should. But the average person
01:32:26
Speaker
They think all superhero movies are Marvel movies. Oh, yeah, definitely. They do. I've talked to people and said, oh, well, where is Nick Fury? Usually he shows up in DC and they said, DC, what are you talking about? And then I got to explain to them and they look at me and they said, really? Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people really don't know that. So but again, like I said, this movie
01:32:49
Speaker
comes the closest to being a Marvel movie than a DC movie. If I didn't know any of the history about Aquaman, I probably would have thought this was a Marvel movie. Thank God that Warner Brothers did not force James Wan to try to imitate Zack Snyder. I think by this point, they learned their lesson on that.
01:33:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. As we, you know, and really I think that that's the best way to go. Just let, you know, each director have his own style and, you know, find his own way of how to do, you know, to do whatever movie he's doing rather than try to, you know, eight, you know, Zack Snyder. That's because that's not, that's not working for them.
01:33:39
Speaker
Right, and that was the weakness in the third act of Wonder Woman. That third act is a very Zack Snyder-esque act. Yeah, yeah. And they didn't seem to do that with this one. And also in Shazam as well and Birds of Prey now, they've let the directors chart their own path. Yeah, Birds of Prey was good too. Birds of Prey, this one and Wonder Woman. I think that
01:34:06
Speaker
That's the way for them to go. Just give the property to a director that you trust and just say, okay, listen, just go nuts. Have fun. Yeah, because like we've said before, like we said in the last episode, DC's already gotten, they're doing a great job with the shared universe stuff on TV, so there's no reason for the movies to try to imitate it as well.
01:34:30
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, if you, I mean, we've already established that Aquaman is in the same universe with Batman and Superman and whatever. Yeah, but you don't necessarily have to,
01:34:40
Speaker
shoehorn them into every movie that he's in, you know, you just will. And I think that this movie greatly benefited from because we don't even hear any mention of, you know, like, you know, Superman or Batman, anything like that. You know, there's just the only reference to anything in the larger DC universe is when Mera first arrives and she mentioned Steppenwolf.
01:35:01
Speaker
Steppenwolf, exactly, yes. And that's only to let us know that, okay, this takes place after Justice Lee. Right, yeah. But other than that, they don't say anything. They don't really mention anyone else.
01:35:12
Speaker
Yeah, which is, I think, which is the way to go to me. I agree. Let's have this movie. Let's establish Aquaman and his world. And then maybe in the second one, maybe we can have a mention of Wonder Woman or Batman or whoever. And it's all good. And now, one thing I wanted to touch on before we go is something you posted up on Facebook right before we started was asking, how would Marvel do Namor now?
Marvel's Challenge: Distinguishing Sub-Mariner
01:35:39
Speaker
Yeah, you know, because I was watching it today. I was watching a movie today, like you said. You know, like I said, because I usually watch these movies before, you know, we record to refresh my memory. And it just struck me. I said, oh, shit. I said, wait a minute. OK. Could Marvel do a Sub-Mariner? Because this movie is so popular. It made so much money. So many people. Matter of fact, I can't think of anybody I know who has seen it, who didn't like it.
01:36:09
Speaker
So it's so popular, so now I'm saying I'm wondering if Marvel could do a Submariner movie or would it just be looked upon as a knockoff of Aquaman? I think they would have, well first there's a rights issue with this because I think it's similar to the situation with Hulk whereas if Marvel makes the Submariner movie, Universal has to release it, something like that. I don't know exactly all the details, nobody really knows all the details of it because
01:36:39
Speaker
Yeah, nobody really knows the details about, although I've heard the same thing that you had. That Universal is apparently holding on to the rights with a death grip. Yeah. And apparently, in an interview, this is going back several years, but Joe Quesada was asked about a Submariner movie, and he said that the rights issue with Universal is actually very complicated. So I'm not sure how complicated. So whatever the situation is, they got to untangle that whole mess first.
01:37:08
Speaker
But, you know, assuming they've got they got that all out of the way, I think the way the best thing to do about Submariner is you want to make them as different from Aquaman as possible because they're so similar in abilities and also just, you know, they're both Atlantean kings. They're both they're both humans. So, yeah. Yeah. See, that's my whole thing, you know. So I think what you should do is
01:37:37
Speaker
You go with the 1960s revival of Submariner, right? When he's revived in the modern day after being like amnesic for like the better part of the 20th century. So you have like the World War II history. Maybe you can get Chris Evans to come back in to do a cameo as Captain America. But you have the World War II history, you have him, you know,
01:38:01
Speaker
falling into decline becoming a vagrant on the streets and then he's revived and he gets his memories back but he's um... but he goes to atlantis and he finds out that it's been destroyed by uh... cute pollution and then he attacks the surface world so i would do him i would start up him off on the villain path and make him like a villain in some movies in fact there's been speculation that because there's that reference in endgame when um... uh...
01:38:30
Speaker
Oh crap, what's her name? Uh, the Dora Milaje. I'm blanking on her character's name right now. That's alright, a lot of people remember. But anyway, when she says that there's an earthquake under the ocean, and she says we handle it by not handling it.
01:38:51
Speaker
Right, a lot of people have said that that could be a reference to Atlantis and Namor. And there's been a lot of speculation, like, I don't know how much of it is based on rumor, how much is based on fact, but there's been a lot of speculation that Namor will be the villain in Black Panther 2. Hmm, interesting, interesting theory. Actually, the way that I would probably go
01:39:17
Speaker
to introduce Namor, I would do an invaders movie. I'd get Chris Evans back to play Captain America. And do an invaders movie to introduce Namor and the Human Torch, and then, you know, you can spin him off into his own movie. Yeah. Like, establish his history as well. Although, I'm like you. I like the Namor from the 1960s when he was a super villain, and, you know, like, you know, twice a year, he would just go invade the surface world, just scare the shit out of you.
01:39:48
Speaker
He would invade New York just for the fun of it. He said, you know, get the troops. We're gonna go invade New York. What the hell? Just scare the shit out of him, you know?
01:39:58
Speaker
name over go if they knew you're taking over go to the UN just sit there to get up and then he will leave. I don't know if you could do invaders because for two reasons first off I don't know if you I think you'd probably get Chris Evans to come back in a cameo I don't know if you get him to come back for a whole movie that's the first thing the second thing is
01:40:22
Speaker
I don't know if they would want to do the Jim Hammond human torch because uh because now they have the Fantastic Four rights I don't know if they want to confuse that with the Johnny Storm human torch yeah so I think if they do like I would love like you know me I love Jim Hammond but um oh man I love the Jim Hammond human torch yeah one of the things they did in um some of the more recent comics is you remember that uh
01:40:46
Speaker
that suit that Cap wore in Winter Soldier, the shield outfit with the star in the chest. So that was a variation on a suit he wore in the comic books when he was running shield.
01:40:58
Speaker
And except he just didn't have the mask with him. And then when they brought Jim Hammond back, because he had died, he'd come back to life, you know, they kill him off like every few years or something. Yeah, yeah. But he's an android. So they brought him back and they gave him a very similar suit to the one that Cap wore. Except it was red and yellow, and instead of the star in the center of the chest, it had the flame.
01:41:22
Speaker
So I think, oh, yeah. So I think you would probably do something like that and maybe like not call him the torch and just never have him go completely flame on. Because I because I had because I had written a fan fiction story for Marvel Omega, you know, the human torch, because I love the Jim Hammond human torch. And my thing was, was that when I wrote the story, I said, OK, well, how do I distinguish him and make him, you know,
01:41:51
Speaker
distinguish him from, you know, the Johnny Storm human torch. And to my mind, he was like the Superman of the Marvel universe. And that he was like one of the first super humans. He was this artificial life form and everything like that. So I said, well, you know what? He's kind of like the Superman of the MCU. Yeah. Yeah, that was a really good take on him. I remember that he ushered in that heroic age.
01:42:19
Speaker
You know, he was the first. That's how I looked upon him because I, you know, because I love the character. I really do. Yeah, he's a great character. I wish he would get some more play. I mean, I know they I mean, fortunately, every time they've tried to do an invaders revival book and they've been pretty good. They've been pretty good attempts. Just never really catches on. But in each one, like Jim Hammond has always been at the center of these revivals. And I've always thought that was a good thing they did.
01:42:45
Speaker
Yeah, because I got so excited when I saw Captain America, the first movie, and you see the tube, and you see him in there. It's, oh my god, that's it. Did you mention that? Yeah, yeah.
01:42:56
Speaker
And I was expecting there to be some reference in Age of Ultron with The Vision. Like, I thought they were going to say, like, you know, this was an android body that's been repurposed or something like that. And they would bring back that body from First Avenger. But I was a little disappointed they didn't do that. Yeah, yeah. I thought that if you had Ultron and you had The Vision, I said, OK, well, they're going to bring the human torture here some kind of way. Right. But they didn't, so, you know.
01:43:25
Speaker
But then again, listen, maybe his body is laying in a crib someplace like that and we'll see him in upcoming MCU movie Maybe he'll get reactivated but but then going back to what you said They might not want to confuse people since they do got the rights and fantastic for that. Yeah. Yeah
01:43:45
Speaker
So, I mean, I would love to see him in some way if they were able to bring him back. Or, you know, I remember in the 90s, right, when John Byrne did a Namor series, I think it was John Byrne, and he had Namor running his own company. Yeah. And then eventually Jim Hammond ended up running the company, too. He ended up taking it over. Yeah. So that'll be an interesting take, too, and that'll also kind of set Namor apart from Aquaman.
01:44:16
Speaker
but I would probably avoid a lot of Atlantis stuff with a Namor movie because, you know, with Aquaman, it's so central to his character that he's the king of Atlantis. But with Namor, he spends so much time out of Atlantis. There's been many, many comics where he's been like banned from Atlantis or like exiled or Atlantis like gone. So you don't really need Atlantis to do. So I would have Atlantis have been destroyed by the surface world.
01:44:47
Speaker
Yeah, because Namor spent just as much time being exiled and banned and, you know, whatever, you know, because I think that. What's his name? Who was it? It was his adviser that ran Atlantis most of the time. Right. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so you don't really need Atlantis for Namor. Just have the Atlanteans like kind of scattered about and and that would help set it apart, I think. Hmm. Good. OK.
01:45:16
Speaker
Like we said last week, why aren't we writing these stuff?
Next Episode Tease and Audience Engagement
01:45:20
Speaker
I have no idea why. Listen, I work cheap. They can pay me half the money they're paying these guys. I'd be happy.
01:45:31
Speaker
Yeah. All right. So that wraps up our episode on Aquaman. And this was your pick this week, so now it's thrown back to me. So I think next week, what I want to watch is a movie that I've been kind of threatening to pick. And that is the 19, the original live action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie from 1990. I think it was.
01:45:55
Speaker
So that'll be interesting, because you don't have much familiarity with the turtles, right? No, but you know something? I actually did go see this in the theater. I saw this in the theater. I did go see it. I'm kind of interested in seeing it again, because I don't believe I've seen it since then. And that's been a long time. Yeah, yeah. But I remember I went to see it. But you got to remember some movies were a lot cheaper back then. So it was one day after work.
01:46:25
Speaker
you know, like a bunch of us, you know, that was on the job. We say, ah, let's go, you know, let's go see the see this movie. So we design method. I saw this and I saw the sequel. I saw that as well in the theater. The one with vanilla ice. Yeah. Oh, God. The infamous one. Oh, man. Yeah.
01:46:44
Speaker
So I'm actually kind of looking forward to seeing this again. Because I haven't seen it in a while. OK, sounds good. All right, so join us next week. We'll watch Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, the original 1990 movie. And that about does it for us for this week. Head on over to Facebook. Superhero Cinephiles is the name of our Facebook group. Join in. I post some polls up there every now and then. Derek will share his movie reviews. Other people come in and post stuff up.
01:47:13
Speaker
or follow us on Twitter, SuperCinemapod, same on Instagram, also SuperCinemapod. And yeah, leave us a review on iTunes, toss us some bucks through Patreon, patreon.com, SuperCinemapod as well. And we will come back and we will see you next week. Okay, thank you very much for listening. And as always, good night, God bless. Yep, and wash your hands. Oh, absolutely.
01:47:47
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. If you have any questions or comments about this or any other episode, or if you have a superhero movie or TV show you'd like us to cover in a future episode, you can email us at superherocinephiles at gmail.com. Or you can also visit us on the web at superherocinephiles.com. If you like what you hear, leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. Each review helps us reach more potential listeners.
01:48:14
Speaker
You can also support the show by renting or purchasing the movies discussed, or by picking up our books, all of which can be accessed through the website, as well as find links to our social media presences. The theme music for this show is a shortened version of Superhero Showdown, a royalty-free piece of music, courtesy of pheasantudios.com.