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X-Men: First Class
168 Plays3 years ago
After the one-two punch of X-Men: The Last Stand and X-Men Origins: Wolverine, Fox's X-Men series got a shot in the arm thanks to Matthew Vaughn's Cold War take on the mutants in X-Men: First Class. Looking back on it, there are some oddities about it amidst a lot of good. Justin and Alicia of The X-Wife Podcast bring their X-knowledge and passion to the show this week.
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Introduction to Audible and membership benefits
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Exploring mutant themes and fears
00:01:31
Speaker
Cuba, Russia, America, makes no difference. Shaw's declared war on mankind, on all of us. He has to be stopped. I'm not gonna stop Shaw. I'm gonna kill him. Do you have it in you to allow that? You've known all along why I was here, Charles.
00:02:01
Speaker
But things have changed. What started as a covert mission, tomorrow, mankind will know that mutants exist. Sure, us, they won't differentiate. They'll fear us. And that fear will turn to hatred. Not if we stop a war. Not if we can prevent shore. Not if we risk our lives doing so. But they do the same for us. We have it in us to be the better man. We already are. We're the next stage of human evolution. You said it yourself.
00:02:29
Speaker
Are you really so naive as to think that they won't battle their own extinction? Or is it arrogance? I'm sorry. After tomorrow, they're gonna turn on us. But you're blind, Ted, because you believe they're all like Moira. And you believe they're all like Shaw. Listen to me very carefully, my friend. Killing Shaw will not bring you peace.
Introducing Justin and Alicia's journey into X-Men
00:03:12
Speaker
And I'm gonna let them tell you a little bit more about the show, but I really enjoyed listening to it and listening to them talk back and forth. And I've been jumping around a bunch of the different episodes. And I thought, you know, I should try, I should email these guys and see if they'd want to come on to this show. And so now I'm happy to welcome to the show, Justin and Alicia from the XY Podcast. Guys, how are you doing today? Great, how are you?
00:03:22
Speaker
peace was never an option.
00:03:38
Speaker
Doing well, doing well. Yeah, same here, doing good. So before we get started about the movie, why don't you guys talk a little bit about yourselves and about your podcast.
00:03:47
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. So the Ex-Wife podcast is one man's elaborate scheme to get his wife into X-Men comics. That's working slash has already worked. It's a podcast that needs a new tagline. Basically. We've been, we've been at it for just over a year now and I think it was maybe two or three months in that I saw the plan in action. It was already
00:04:11
Speaker
taking root and she is now officially reading comics weekly and there are no really no new X books this week so it's kind of like a whoa what do we do what do we read and that's a good fear for her to express that she's missing out on the comics that would normally happen on Wednesday.
00:04:29
Speaker
Yeah, so we started with House of X and Powers of X and the podcast originally started with this idea of Justin sort of recapping an issue to me and I would just react as a person who really didn't know much about the X-Men outside of films. And then we did all sorts of things like retcon wranglers where Justin tells me about different retcon things or like, we called it my X education. So basically-
00:04:58
Speaker
exit basically going through the comics history related to the X-Men the seminal moments big points kind of filling my brain with all of this knowledge on top of reading or going through current comics and
Diving into X-Men comic history and reading preferences
00:05:16
Speaker
just digging in and me getting attached to certain characters and starting to hate other characters. And now we're just, we're just X-Men crazy. So here we are. Yeah. She had, she had never read any comics before. Nope. And then House of X powers of 10 were her first comics. And about halfway through recording, I had gotten her
00:05:40
Speaker
the hardcover and she started reading it and reading along and reading the issues that she had already read. And I was like, all right, yes, but layers to this plan. So the exit. So when, if you haven't read Hoxbox, if you haven't, or if your listeners haven't, it was a 2019 kind of soft relaunch of the X-Men franchise.
00:05:58
Speaker
that Marvel was marketing as a seminal moment in X-Men history. And they categorized that with a couple of others that they pulled out as these big turning moments in comics publication history. So for our second season of the podcast, I was like, all right, let's dive into those other noteworthy moments mixed with a handful of the Claremont run because they kind of sidestep the Claremont run by going
00:06:23
Speaker
Giant-sized X-Men 2, X-Men number one from 1991. It was like, hey, wait a minute. There's about 16 years of hearty stories that build all these characters that we know and love that we should probably dive into to build the foundation for the current issues. And now, happy to say, as of a couple of weeks ago, she has read everything that has come out within the Krakoan era of the last two years or so. Oh, nice. You're even more up on me then because I only go through, I do traits now, so.
00:06:52
Speaker
So I'm not doing weeks a week. So then when I'm listening to your show, that's why I really like the seminal moments and the retcon Wrangler episodes, because, oh, I have those books, I can actually listen to those without being spoiled. Yeah, those are those are definitely my favorite ones. You guys go into that kind of stuff. And then as I read the new stuff, then I go back to your feed and listen to those old other episodes.
00:07:14
Speaker
I personally really like the trades, too, because I I I get like flack for saying this, but I was like a real book person, a novel person. I won't call them real and fake books because they're all real books. It's just a joke, everybody. But I like being able to like sit down and read the story like a good chunk of it at a time versus, you know, one issue. I'm like, OK, I need some more.
00:07:41
Speaker
I need something else, that wasn't enough. That's like reading one chapter, why? Which honestly, when I was a kid going to the shop, there were titles that I would just let build up as a backlog and then burn through a full arc in an afternoon, kind of similar. So, and a question for you, Perry, are you reading the title trades or are you reading the dawn of X reign of X trades because the different organizations that they've done with this era,
00:08:08
Speaker
Yeah, I had started jumping into the title trades before I noticed the dot of X and rate of X trades. So when I saw those big collections, I'm like, man, I should have gotten those instead. So, but now I'm stuck with the title trades. I think it was a good, and you get more freedom to hop around with that too and really follow up on something that you specifically are into.
00:08:27
Speaker
Yeah, that that's been that's been good, too. There have been some of the books that I haven't been that haven't appealed to me as much. And so those ones, I'm just like, I'm not in a rush. Like I read the first New Mutants trade and it wasn't really wasn't really my thing. And so I haven't really felt a need to pick up any of the ones after that. It gets better. It gets better after Ten of Swords. OK, I just recently read Ten of Swords. And I think the the was it the giant size? I think that was the most recent one I've read. Yeah, yeah.
00:08:59
Speaker
So Justin, what was your history getting into comics then?
Justin's comic journey and X-Men's storytelling complexity
00:09:04
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. So my godfather, my uncle, he collected as a kid and has the tragic backstory of his mom throwing out a bunch of his comics, selling them at a yard sale. Yes. So he rebuilt some of his collection and then got back in around when I was born and really early on, you know, he was reading one of the stuff that was coming out in the mid to late eighties, the early nineties, and he would take me to
00:09:34
Speaker
the Toys R Us that would sell these combo packs of just random issues and just different publishers, different titles, all smattering of everywhere. And then he was actually the one that would get me the essential books, the black and white essential books that actually still have back from the early 90s, the same issues that I read through a ton of time. So it was kind of a hodgepodge of
00:10:00
Speaker
handful of random issues here, and then the essential books. And then obviously the the 90s cartoon was was kind of foundational for knowing the characters and knowing the backstories. But my first pretty sure my first issue actually just got it signed by Fabian Nicieza was the X-Men issue from the crossover where
00:10:26
Speaker
Magneto rips the adamantium from Wolverine. Oh, fatal attractions. Fatal attractions, yeah. And so that was the first one that I really remember. And just seeing that, I'm getting the chills just thinking about it, just seeing it rip from his body and kind of knowing who Wolverine was at the time because I had seen the cartoon at the time and used to collect the trading cards. And so kind of piecemeal bringing together
00:10:54
Speaker
awareness and knowledge of the characters and their stories, but not really having a consistent arc until I got those essential books and then dove into the Claremont run. Yeah, I had kind of a similar thing. I think my first issue was also in ECS. I think it was the one right before. It was when Rogan Gabbet go on on a date and it was like
00:11:14
Speaker
this prelude to fatal attractions, which was really confusing because they're talking about Magneto being dead and someone named Illiana has just died. And I just came into the cartoons and I'm like, I have no idea what's going on, but, but I'm going to keep reading it anyway. And that I feel like is so many people's experience with X-Men, right?
00:11:35
Speaker
there isn't always a knowledgeable and kindly husband next to you to be able to explain to you issue by issue, no, we'll now read this. And, you know, Redditors get upset when you ask, what should I read first? Or how do I get into the X-Men? And a lot of people just start reading. They find whatever they can in dollar bins or trades and pick those up. And then, okay, Wikipedia now adds the ability to,
00:12:02
Speaker
place it in history and even some of that you can go crazy trying to piece it together and it doesn't always make sense.
Alicia's superhero film journey and Marvel preference
00:12:10
Speaker
And Alicia so you came in through the films originally then so what were your first and that's really fitting for this podcast this is all about superhero movies so what were some of your first superhero movies? Oh man um
00:12:27
Speaker
Well, my dad was really into like action movies. So anything that had action in it, my dad was into and so I watched. I think like the Batman movies were probably the first superhero movies that I saw and then the X-Men movies and some of the MCU. And then I started getting like really into the MCU. And then I think that was probably
00:12:52
Speaker
around the time that I met Justin and then, you know, more into it. I think I didn't really have a person in my life growing up that was really into superheroes or anything of that nature. So I
00:13:09
Speaker
began my nerdiness with like Harry Potter and Jurassic Park and then sort of the Batman movies were my dad's thing and I was into that but then once I realized that there was
00:13:24
Speaker
Marvel. I was like, OK, DC, you're cool, but Marvel. And yeah, I saw the first three X-Men movies, but it wasn't until the second sort of second wave or second round of them that I was like, oh, OK. Oh, OK, X-Men movies. Yeah. And and so I was super and MCU strictly.
00:13:48
Speaker
That was my fandom until
Discussing favorite X-Men eras and personal connections
00:13:50
Speaker
we started this podcast and I started to get into the comic world and saw a whole new, there's so much more, you just don't know. Yeah, honestly, it upsets her to no end about Storm. I can't. And Storm's treatment in the movies versus her amazingness during the comics runs. I'll never forget first reading the comics or talking with Justin about the comics and being like, hold up.
00:14:18
Speaker
Why is Storm so poorly represented in the movies? Like she is a powerhouse. She is such a huge role. And she's just like, what's up? I'm here. I'm still in London. Do some lightning. OK, bye. These movies seem to have have a bit of a black problem in general. And we'll talk about that in this movie as well.
00:14:36
Speaker
But yeah, me and me not even being a big Storm fan, I'm just like, come on guys. I mean, and especially because they, because Angela Bassett wanted to play Storm in the original movie and they said, no, we're going to go with Halle Berry. I got that name. But so now I'm not sure how many of the comics you've now read though, but have you gravitated towards like a favorite era of the comics yet?
00:15:07
Speaker
Well, um, that's a good question. Um, I don't really have a favorite era. I have favorite characters and I have areas that I'm interested in. Like at the Claremont run, I really like, um, because there's a lot of stories in that, that I feel like I really enjoy like, uh, days of future past and, um,
00:15:35
Speaker
Oh, my goodness. God loves me and kills. That's the one. Oh, yeah, that's that's amazing. But I also am like super interested. We started a little bit talking about the age of apocalypse, and I really want to read like all of that. But I always refer to the Krakowan era as my X-Men because they were like my gateway into X-Men. Yeah.
00:15:55
Speaker
And I'm a really big fan of Emma Frost, so I'm super into where she's at in the comics right now. And Kate, formerly known as Kitty.
00:16:08
Speaker
I guess I would have to say like my favorite era is the current era because it's the one that I know the most about. But were you going to say something else? Have I said something different in the past? No, I was going to say that your favorite is likely the current just because of that connection to the books as you're reading them.
00:16:29
Speaker
not to spoil anything, but the newer X-Men team that has announced that you have called that your X-Men team, right? Like I have my X-Men team that is kind of around the brood saga. Like those are the people that when I think of the X-Men team, like that was my favorite team. It's interesting though, because like every time I say my X-Men, I did say that about the X-Men team, but I think I really mean the Marauders. Yeah, yeah.
00:16:56
Speaker
Uh, so Justin, so with your, your like era, that'd be more of a Claremont stuff then because you said the brew team is like your team.
00:17:03
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, when I got into it, there have been stages of me diving into the comics. There was the 90s that were kind of loose brushes that gave me a little bit more of the context from the cartoon. There was the heavy dive through the Claremont era, and that really informed a lot of what I gravitate towards in terms of character and storytelling devices, but also just the enjoyment of the long narrative. A couple of years ago,
00:17:32
Speaker
Actually, maybe right before we started the podcast, I finished reading the entirety of Claremont's run, including all the spinoffs and tie ins. So X Factor, New Mutants, going into X Force, all the minis, all the big events. I also was collecting and reading
00:17:52
Speaker
at the time of new X-Men. And I do really enjoy Grant Morrison's run on new X-Men. And I mean, it gets a bad rap now, but I was into Ultimate X-Men at the time. And I feel like that gave a little bit more of an approachable new take, even though it didn't age well and didn't even finish out very well. And the art was cool.
00:18:20
Speaker
Yeah, I had recently reread the ultimate X-Men stuff and I, cause I think we're probably about similar ages and we're reading at similar times. And I loved it when it came out. Cause I was like, you know, high school college and that was like the cool edgy thing. And then looking back at it now, it's like, Oh yeah, this is what a 12 year old thought was cool.
00:18:38
Speaker
And I loved Ultimate Spider-Man at the same time, so I was all in. And that kind of built the first, I don't want to say addiction, but the first regularity of going to a comic shop every Wednesday and riding my bike down to the comic shop and really collecting with fervor.
00:18:56
Speaker
kind of kind of phasing out and then coming back again a few years ago through Marvel Unlimited and through just trades and then just and then everything now now everything there's even a hint of x-men in an issue of something doesn't like oh i picked up this one too yeah because they walked by an x-men yeah so i have to well now there's been there's been some that i haven't there's been like a couple of issues that you know wolverine shows up in because he shows up in everything
00:19:27
Speaker
but I did, I just, I like to pick up random short runs and just read through them. It was around when, and it's not very short, but it was around when I introduced you to the age of apocalypse, the X-Men alpha, the first issue. I just then read the entire event again and now have bought the omnibus and it was like, okay, now I can dive in fully. And then there's been like a handful of just,
00:19:54
Speaker
short like twenty or so issue runs that i'm just like yeah i can read this in a weekend. Yeah i'm glad you mentioned morris and thing i'm that's probably the air i gravitate towards the most myself although i i've always got a soft spot for the nineties that's when i started.
00:20:10
Speaker
But in fact, I'm doing another podcast for me and a few other guys from the House of X Facebook group. We're doing a read through all the Morse and stuff. And we had just finished the Imperial arc and now we're starting into the new world stuff. Oh, cool. Yeah. Sorry, go ahead. That was one of the seminal moments. I think that was the last one on the list before
00:20:38
Speaker
House of X and Powers of X, so the E is for extinction. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Film analysis: Reboot vs. prequel debate
00:20:44
Speaker
So we're talking about today's movie now, X-Men First Class, 2011. And my feelings on the X-Men movies, I've kind of got like a love-hate relationship with these movies because
00:20:58
Speaker
I don't mind all of the changes. I'm not one of those X-Men fans who is like, oh, they don't have Jean's hair in the right shade of red or anything like that. But there are other changes they made that I'm just like, really? Why did you have to go that route? Yeah. And this movie, I think, is this weird example because it's both very fitting for an X-Men movie.
00:21:20
Speaker
And also one of those why did you do that because they don't seem to know if this was supposed to be if it was supposed to be a reboot if it was supposed to be a prequel or if it was supposed to be some sort of weird mix between the two.
00:21:34
Speaker
Right. And I mean, to start it with Magneto and Poland in essentially the same shots that we've seen in another movie, it feels like, oh, okay, they're doing a prequel. But then you throw in Mystique and I'm like, wait a minute. What?
00:21:51
Speaker
So it does, it feels like it's a blend of, yeah, it's a prequel, but also we're gonna do whatever we want because nobody tell me nothing. So now that I'm like super cool and knowledgeable, when we were watching this, I was like, because we've seen it a handful of times, many times, but we of course watched it again so that it was fresh. And now that I have all this other knowledge, I was realizing like,
00:22:17
Speaker
there are all these sort of connections to the times in which they reboot quote unquote reboot the X-Men in that like the whole story of the Leningrad and like what's we're going to make Magneto the bad guy. How does Magneto become the bad guy? Like they play back and forth between Magneto and Sean that same role in this idea of like where's nuclear war coming from and why do we need to get together as
00:22:41
Speaker
as a team to defeat them and there's even like actual raising of submarines out of the water and so I thought that was like a cool connection to exactly what you're saying that's like is it a reboot or is it
00:22:55
Speaker
Is it a prequel? Like, are we telling you something that's already happened? Or are we saying like, we're starting
Magneto's origin and character development
00:23:01
Speaker
fresh. And I felt like that was similar to a couple of issues that we've talked about of like, it's the X-Men, we're kind of starting over, but we're also just telling you a new point in time. And yeah, it's very much, I think a hybrid of both of those things or like a
00:23:17
Speaker
If this is an experience, you take what you want from it. If you want to leave feeling like that was a prequel, good for you. If you want to leave feeling like this is a fresh new start, we'll give you that too. Whatever you do, just give us some money. Yeah, yeah. It's funny you mentioned the Leningrad thing. I never picked up on that and that's like one of my most favorite Magneto moments.
00:23:38
Speaker
I honestly felt so excited when I started realizing that watching it because I was like, whoa, this is something that I know. And I think also because I've gotten so much comic knowledge in such a condensed period of time, like it all lives very fresh in my brain where you might not normally have made that connection because how long ago was it that you read that issue?
00:24:00
Speaker
And we had just done the trial of Magneto and we had talked about it. We actually had House of Ex, Dylan and Regina guest on our show talking about Uncanny X-Men 200 by Claremont and made those connections between 150 where he sinks the Leningrad and X-Men number one, 1991, where he raises it. And these different points in Claremont's run where he tells the arc of Magneto
00:24:29
Speaker
And this being an origin story for Magneto really works to use that as a connection point, as an anchor. That origin story for Magneto is a good point I wanted to touch on because this movie actually first started off as X-Men Origins Magneto. That's what the original plan for this was.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah, they were gonna do, because their plan was they were gonna do a series of these X-Men Origins movies. They started off with Wolverine and then that one tanked. And so after that, they're just like, okay, we're not gonna do that anymore. So then they kind of merged the script they already had for Magneto and they kind of merged it with first class and kind of rode around it. And I think that really sticks out in a lot of points because I feel like the Magneto stuff is definitely the strongest in this movie.
00:25:20
Speaker
Yeah, I think one of the things I put in my notes was like, is this just a Magneto origin story, which now, oh, hello, yes, it is. Thank you for sharing that information with me. But I think that's why I always say of all the excellent movies that this is my favorite one. And I think that's why, because I love seeing Magneto become Magneto and realize his power and realize his purpose, so to speak, and just seeing that
00:25:50
Speaker
part of Magneto and Charles's relationship that me, I personally haven't seen before. I know that it's brought up a little bit in the comics, like how they become who they are, but you don't, I don't think you often see them as young. Yeah. And so that part of it is what really draws me into it, of seeing like the different perspective of them becoming who they are and also this idea of
00:26:14
Speaker
You don't know if you're the only mutant or that there are other other mutants, like all the other stories that I had known up until this point where there are mutants there everywhere. We know they exist. We just don't like them. Justin, what are some of your thoughts of this movie in general coming at it from someone who's got all this knowledge about the comics?
00:26:35
Speaker
Yeah, I give all X-Men movies a very generous read in the sense that I'm just excited to see the X-Men on film. And I know that that taints my vision with Ruby Quartz in the sense that I'm just excited. Hey, these are my favorite guys and they're in a movie. And if I need to call it an alternate universe, I'll do that to let things slide. There might even be multiple alternate universes in the Fox universe.
00:27:01
Speaker
And that's fine. And I'd say the part where it becomes just congruous is where it feels like this is an origin story for Magneto. This is very much so connected to the first couple of movies. And then you introduce Mystique in this role that is in no way connected to where else you've seen her. There's no acknowledgement between Xavier and Mystique to have this deep relationship that, you know, I just,
00:27:32
Speaker
I remember being in the theater like, oh, cool, this is this is this. Wait, what? No, no, it's not. And and it's aged fine. I enjoy this movie. It's in probably my top half. It's definitely not my favorite of the X-Men films. My favorite, I think, is it goes back and forth between Days of Future Past and X2 because those are just
00:27:54
Speaker
of my favorite stories and they're done really well. But in general, I really liked this movie for what it does. I really like the origin story of not only Magneto, but the collegiality that he has with Xavier. And I feel like you've talked about that a lot, Alicia, the
00:28:13
Speaker
you always had watched the original movies and then like, Oh, okay. They're, they're friends. They respect each other. They're, they're frenemies, but why? And this, this really digs into that in a way that's interesting and shows you, okay, they have this respect for each other, but because of their personal histories, they can't go about it in the same way.
00:28:33
Speaker
It gives old friend more gravitas. Yes. It roots into what it means for them personally, especially Magneto, and especially just through his experience as a Holocaust survivor. My favorite parts in this movie are definitely the opening stuff when we see Magneto Nazi Hunter.
Notable film scenes and character portrayals
00:28:52
Speaker
Every time I watch this movie, I just keep thinking the same thing. I want Matthew Vaughn and Michael Fassbender to do a James Bond movie set in the 60s.
00:29:02
Speaker
Yeah, ooh, ooh, yeah. Honestly, it's that scene where he's in the bar with the blood and honor, like that's the best scene. That is the greatest scene in the movie, yeah. And it has the slow build of the music. And the score is just that sound. It's just the, you know, it just comes up and you're like, oh God, like I'm getting it, just talking about it. Yeah, he's about to do some stuff. And he delivers, I love Michael Fassbender as, you know,
00:29:31
Speaker
Yeah, so good. Yeah, every time I watch this movie, there are moments when I just kind of like, you know, you know, when you see the movie, like, you know, a dozen times, you kind of drift in and out. You're like checking your phone and stuff like that. Every time this scene comes on, though, just like, boom, I'm right there. And it's just like it's the first time I'm watching it again. It's just like his delivery is just so amazing. And it's just such a calm, like, yes, my parents were murdered by pig farmers and tailors. And you're just like,
00:29:59
Speaker
and just the slow reveal of the numbers on his forearm. And their faces of like, oh no, what's happening? And especially when he takes the knife out and he's like, he's like, oh, blood and honor, which would you like to shed first? And just like the chilling way he delivers everything.
00:30:17
Speaker
So good. And just the gestures he makes when he's controlling the knife too, it's just like, it's so amazingly fluid. I'm just like, holy fuck there. That's him controlling the knife. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even, even that first scene as an adult, as we were watching it, he's just hanging out in a room, twirling the
00:30:36
Speaker
uh the the coin that he's now carried throughout his entire life plotting the vengeance for his murdered family and it just it just gives him so much to and it gives us as the audience so much to identify and connect with his trauma and his reasoning as for why he's the way he is yeah yeah yeah for me he is the most realized most developed fleshed out character in this movie and
00:31:03
Speaker
With McAvoy, his Xavier grew on me over time. This movie, I didn't like him too much. It wasn't until Days of Future Past that he really kind of sold me on him. I don't know, I think I'm just so attached to Xavier and just seeing the whole frat boy Xavier thing just feels so weird to me.
00:31:24
Speaker
I don't know if you've gotten this from our podcast, but I hate Charles Xavier now. I have I am out on him. One of one of my early goals for the podcast was to ruin Charles Xavier for Alicia because because if you just watch the movies, if you just watch the animated TV show, you're like, wow, Xavier is such a great guy. He's a hero. But if you read specific stories and you understand his
00:31:51
Speaker
You're like, wow, he is parading around as this great guy, but he actually is a terrible person sometimes does things for good reasons, but I just was watching this and.
00:32:04
Speaker
I think this was maybe the second time since I realized I'd despise Charles Xavier that we've watched this movie. And I was like, oh, he is nailing the arrogance of Charles Xavier. And I didn't really appreciate it as much before. And I just really felt like exactly what you're saying, like the frat boy thing and just this idea that he is
00:32:27
Speaker
My biggest reason for not liking Charles Xavier is his entitlement to do what he wants with your mind when he decides that it's right, but then his idea of like, oh no, but I'm a good guy. But like, you're not a good guy if you just go inside people's heads and take things that they didn't say you could have. And that, and the taking and taking away that I'm going to take this from you and then I'm also going to give you this thing that you didn't know was there.
00:32:54
Speaker
block this from your brain forever. And I just didn't realize how well he nails that like, confident arrogance that I just can't stand. Yeah, so so at the end of the movie, she loved to hate my voice portrayal because it was perfect nailed everything that she's been feeling about Xavier as a character. That's a good point. Yeah, I never consider that before. And you're right. He's
00:33:22
Speaker
And then always last, I always laugh in the comics when he says, oh, I never entered someone's mind without permission. It's like, bitch, you do that all the time. Yeah. Right. All the time. Only when it's necessary by the plot and then I did not hit and then preach this moral code to all of my students. And honestly, like it's not really fair to Charles Xavier, but now that I feel the way that I feel, I, everything he does is wrong. Oh my God.
00:33:45
Speaker
even to the point where, you know, we were talking to each other while we're watching the movie. And I'm like, Charles, you went too far. OK, so when you're telling Magneto like let the submarine go like you just sheerly proving to him that you're a telepath could have been enough. You didn't need to go deep in there. And when you're telling him to move the this satellite, like you don't need to go. He didn't ask you to go in there and bring up his birthday with his mother. Like he didn't ask you for that. You just went in there and you took that.
00:34:13
Speaker
So it's like she carries around the hatred for all of the things that he's done and then sees it immediately in anything that he's trying to do. Even if there happens to be a story where Xavier's- Maybe he should have done it, but I'd say no. Doing an okay job and he's helping to bring the team together and train them. No, he did these other things. I've been stewing on them for the last three weeks and I hate that man. I haven't been better again.
00:34:41
Speaker
One of the things that really annoyed me too is his interactions with Mystique in this movie and just like, especially the way he gets so freaked out whenever she turns up blue and it's just, and his whole thing's like, no, you should hide. You should be ashamed of who you really are. It's just,
00:35:00
Speaker
It's the idea of passing as a human, right? And his almost wanting her to feel shame for wanting to be herself. And I feel like that is really articulated well in the difference between Xavier and Magneto and how
00:35:15
Speaker
He's encouraging her. No, like you are distracted by trying to maintain this exterior appearance. You should just be who you are. That's where your strength comes. Well, y'all, if people were comfortable being themselves, then they wouldn't need Charles. Yeah. So he needs them to be uncomfortable being themselves. So they need him. He can puppet them around. No.
00:35:44
Speaker
Okay, what did you guys think of Sebastian Shaw and the Hellfire Club in this movie? We have a lot of feelings about Sebastian Shaw. I have a lot of feeling. So, okay. Sebastian Shaw is one of my favorite love to hate characters. And I also love Kevin Bacon. Like I am a dancer, so like Footloose. In my mind, when I see Kevin Bacon, I see Footloose. And
00:36:14
Speaker
I think that the character of Shaw was written well, and I think that there are moments when he has the right kind of presence, but I think overall, Kevin Bacon has too much charm in a way that you actually like him to be Sebastian Shaw, because Sebastian Shaw should feel like he's trying to be charming, but he doesn't quite get there. You still have an uncomfortable feeling about him whenever he's speaking to you, and I felt like
00:36:43
Speaker
Kevin Bacon was a little too likable to be Shaw.
00:36:50
Speaker
And I feel like I've allowed that to influence my read-on job because before having that conversation, I really liked the casting of Given Bacon as Shaw, and I really liked the performance, especially, and I get the charming because there are times when I'm like, man, I'm about to sign up for this brotherhood. I'm about to join the evil mutants. But he just has such a calm anger about him in so many of the scenes that,
00:37:19
Speaker
And I really do like, and it's nothing to do with the comic story, but I like what they did with his influence on Magneto at various stages throughout his life. And to have this driving force put within him by, what was his name initially?
00:37:40
Speaker
Yeah, you forget it. Right. And, and then to become the Shaw that then shows him know like we are superior we are, we should be this way, kind of really influences magnetos all drive which
00:37:56
Speaker
I like, but I don't like at the same time because no magneto's his own man and he has his own feelings for his own reasons. But I like what they did with Shaw. Uh, to your, your question about the hellfire club, I felt like there was some missed opportunity to really root that into more of what the hellfire club was. It was really just surface level. You know, Hey, we throw fancy parties and we have cool mansions and yachts.
00:38:22
Speaker
there could have been a lot more to the power and influence that the Hellfire Club in the comics controls. And also, I mean, if you knew you wanted to go for the Dark Phoenix at some point, you could have started to build that into the lore of the Hellfire Club. You could have started to lay some, even if it's just a firebird over the desk, you know, something that I just,
00:38:47
Speaker
It was surface level. It was good at the surface level. It definitely felt like the Hellfire Club, but I felt like there were more things that they could have done with it.
00:38:55
Speaker
I also want to say that it's not Kevin Bacon's fault. Okay. Like I don't think Kevin Bacon did a bad job. I just think he is inherently more likable. I just want to make that clear. I'm picking up a lot. I still love you. I'm picking up on a lot of what you guys are saying. I also love Kevin Bacon's performance in this. My biggest thing is that as much as I love his performance, this is not Sebastian Shaw. Like when I think of Sebastian Shaw, I think of,
00:39:24
Speaker
the ultimate opportunist, right? He's the guy who builds sentinels, even though he's a mutant himself, because it makes him money. And turning him into this kind of proto Magneto slash mixed in with the dash of apocalypse, as far as like his plan goes, it just feels really weird to me. And going to what you said, Justin, about his whole the influence on Magneto, I also like it better that it's
00:39:48
Speaker
that you know came to these ideas on his own, he didn't need them to be taught to him by by some of some other guy to the point where he ripped off his helmet and.
00:39:59
Speaker
The first time I saw this movie, I was watching it with a buddy of mine. And every time Magneeta Shaw wore the helmet, my friend just kept screaming, that is not your hat, sir. Well, I actually feel, too, like in the movie, when you look at it and you look at the way the helmet looks on Shaw versus how the helmet looks on Magneto, like the costume department clearly made it to fit
00:40:22
Speaker
Magneto. And then they were like, okay, you wear this for a little while and everyone will feel like it doesn't quite work for you. And then once Magneto puts it on, it's fantastic. Get that red paint all over it. But the point that you're saying, right, about Shaw being an opportunist, I feel like the only time that they really exploit that is in the beginning when he's literally working for the Nazis, right? Like he's working with Nazis, which is horrific, but he is doing it because he's gaining something out of it.
00:40:51
Speaker
And then there's the kind of underlying plot of him influencing the nuclear war, too. Yeah.
00:40:58
Speaker
And I don't know where this idea was like, yeah, the nuclear explosions created mutants, so we should blow up everything and then we'll be stronger. I don't know, Shaw, you should maybe fact check your sources on that one. Yeah, that actually works. But he is a driving factor on the Cuban Missile Crisis, which is a great, cool connector to history.
00:41:22
Speaker
I do feel like he's doing things that are opportunistic, but at the same time, he just doesn't grimey enough. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like the connections to the Cuban Missile Crisis. I love it when superhero movies and stories can weave in actual history and in a way that actually makes sense. I love it when they do that kind of stuff. Like with
00:41:46
Speaker
I just I last episode I did was on winter soldier and how they we did an operation paperclip into Hydra that that was a there was another brilliant use of that and and what I'm but and the whole I think they took the children of the atom thing a little too literally because there's this idea is like you know I guess the whole idea is that mutants are immune to radiation in this which
00:42:11
Speaker
But even so, if you're gonna have a global nuclear war, you're gonna destroy everything else. So even if you are immune to radiation, you're not immune to explosions. Right, or the lack of food created by all of this nuclear war. I don't think you can teleport far enough to find a grocery store that's unaffected, Azazel, sorry. Oh, Azazel.
00:42:36
Speaker
What about the other characters in the first class?
Character arcs: Beast, Mystique, and Banshee
00:42:40
Speaker
What's probably the biggest ones are Mystique and Beast. What were some of your thoughts about those guys? Well, I could appreciate that now looking at it from a new lens, I could appreciate the transition of Beast from a non-blue man to a blue man because he starts out non-blue in the comics, but he's also very different
00:43:07
Speaker
than he is physically appearing as a non-blue man, if that makes sense. He's not quite that skinny, but I don't know. I've never really been like a fan of beast. I don't really care. So that's my take.
00:43:25
Speaker
I feel like of the characters cast, those are probably the two that I'm like, okay, I don't know if this really works, but I do like what they do with the plot of those two characters and how that really underscores the subplot of acceptance of yourself and really drives Beast to go even further and mutate himself. And I do like the use of Mystique's genes as this
00:43:55
Speaker
wellspring of potential for genetic material that they then follow up in on days of future past and how that then becomes, you know, the core for the Nimrod-esque sentinels of the future, which I, there are parts of it that I really appreciate because of that subplot, but. I really don't like their sexual attention. Yeah, that didn't,
00:44:22
Speaker
I'm not for that. I feel like that was only just because, Hey, you're both kind of unaccepted by society in your mutant form. So love maybe. And it's kind of funny because apparently they, those two actors started dating through this movie, which is so weird to me because they don't seem to have any chemistry together.
00:44:43
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's like when, because when I heard like Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone started dating with amazing experiment, that makes sense. They have tons of chemistry. Um, but this one, like, I'm fast vendor probably has chemistry with everybody. I don't think there's anybody who doesn't want to sleep with fast. I don't know. Yeah. Honestly, if I was on the movie, I'd probably have issues too. Yeah. Everybody, everybody loves him. Yeah. Um, but I felt there was so much more chemistry between her and fast and it was with her and hold and
00:45:12
Speaker
Jennifer Lawrence's Mystique, I'm okay with her in this movie. I think the big problem came in is that she did Hunger Games after this and that blew up and then they decided, oh, she's our new Wolverine now. And the whole arc her character goes on does makes less sense after this movie because this movie ends with her saying like, mutant and proud, I'm going to be myself. And then she's still Jennifer Lawrence in the other movies.
00:45:37
Speaker
For me, that specific line, it's the way she delivers it. I love Jennifer Lawrence, but I'm not a big fan of, I feel as though it may have been the writing that makes her very timid, but I don't like it. I don't really have an eloquent way of saying that.
00:46:00
Speaker
Like when she says mutant and proud at the end, it literally has to do with like the cadence of how she says it. That the word proud does not come across genuine to me. Yeah. Yeah. I feel the same way. And her, I love Jennifer Lawrence as well, but I do not love her in this role. And I think you're right. Probably part of it is the writing. Part of it is this attempt to try to make her like the new central tentpole of the franchise.
00:46:30
Speaker
Yeah. And especially as it goes forward, like you were saying, it flip flops, right? So she's, she's good in the first one. And then she turns bad. And then, all right, now in days of future pass, she's bad. And then she kind of comes back to good. And it's like, you, you could have just kept her bad. You could have just doubled down on that and have her be the new leader of the brotherhood. And there are comics that support that. So let's just do that then. Yeah. Yeah. And Nicholas holds like, I despise Nicholas
00:46:58
Speaker
I love Beast, not so much in the more current stuff, but traditionally, I love the character. And Kelsey Grammer, I thought, was the best thing about The Last Stand.
00:47:09
Speaker
even though I don't really like the rest of that movie, I love Kelsey Grammer in that movie. I think he perfectly captures what Beast is, the humor, the intellect, the wit, all of that. He's got, Nicholas Holt is just this boring milksop of a guy and he just has no charisma. It's like they looked at him and they're like, oh, Beast is intelligent. He's a science guy. He's a nerd. Let's make him the stereotypical shy nerdy guy then.
00:47:36
Speaker
Yeah. I, I, I would agree with what you're saying. The only thing that I do like about is I like his blue, you know, I like when he turns blue and, uh, really, I feel like that looks and feels like beast. Uh, cause it also then gives him the physicality that he was lacking previously. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:57
Speaker
What about some of the other first-class characters? One of the biggest things I thought with this movie is that because they didn't know if they were gonna be doing a reboot or a prequel that they, it seemed to be like, let's throw, let's have all the X-Men characters in a hat and let's just pick out random ones and see who else. Yes. They are very random in terms of where they're coming from and who they are. I like,
00:48:24
Speaker
Most of the characters, honestly, I feel like they really doubled down to show you that Alex is not Scott. You know, he's the bad boy that you meet in prison for the first time that has problems with everybody. And honestly, havoc has so much trauma like all the time. This poor man, he just always has trauma. And that is that is also true in this movie. So I called.
00:48:52
Speaker
the guy that played Banshee, I was like, he looks like a Weasley brother from Harry Potter. Yeah, and I think he did a great job. I think it's an interesting take on the character of Banshee because in the comics, he's more of a contemporary of Xavier. And to kind of de-age him down and put him in these as a new student is an interesting choice, but I liked,
00:49:20
Speaker
his edition. Angel was really out of left field in terms of like where she's coming from in the comics. And yeah, I didn't mind her, her, her power's always kind of weirded me out in the comics. But it kind of weirded me out about Angel when I was, and it didn't jump out into me until I was doing this reread of the horse and stuff.
00:49:43
Speaker
in the comics, like the whole point of her, she's kind of like the anti-kitty pride, right? She's like from this, you know, she comes from like this, you know, poor background. She's got this like abrasive personality. She's not the prettiest mutant. She's, you know, but in this, they took all that and they kind of chucked it away and they literally turned her into a pixie dream girl. Interesting. Yeah.
00:50:09
Speaker
And I also just, I have a thing about Darwin and like, why does everybody in my experience at least say, Hey, look at this, it's Darwin. He's cool. He has powers by you're gone. We don't care about you. Like, I feel like he always gets like just one moment and then no one cares or he's dead. And I feel bad for him because I think he has a cool power set and he's a cool character.
00:50:34
Speaker
And that is probably, in addition to the mystique relationship with Xavier is probably one of the things that really sticks out to me as a what. You literally have the character that adapts to survive and he dies. And, you know, tropes of films and killing off the black character aside, that doesn't make sense for this character and this power set. I just,
00:51:02
Speaker
That scene, like, ah, yeah, I it's weird to what there are only two black characters in this group of mutants. And one of them goes evil. And the other one is like that. You guys can do a little bit better with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:22
Speaker
Um, but I did like, I did like Darwin for what little we get of him in this movie. And it's funny that the actor who played him, uh, Edie Gathige, he had recently done an interview and he had said, he had talked about how much he felt like that was a missed opportunity for them to have killed off Darwin.
00:51:37
Speaker
Yeah, it's just too soon. And I really like, as a whole, the group and in those team bonding scenes and just their chemistry as a group, I feel like really sells some of the heart of their shared experience of not being accepted. They're kind of laughed at as the freaks from even the agents of the facility and even
00:52:00
Speaker
as Havoc's demonstrating his power, and they're all like doing the lean forward, lean back. They feel like they play off each other well, and they come up with their code names. That was just a fun segment of the film. But it really confused me the way that they put Mystique in that group. And for the beginning of the movie, she's
00:52:22
Speaker
her and Charles and Magneto are sort of like, we're all the same age, we're going through this thing together. And then when they form the group, they're like, go sit at the kids table, we're the adults. And then she turns into more of like a weak, sad little child.
Team dynamics and character consistency
00:52:38
Speaker
And I just don't like, like, I don't understand that dynamic. Why did she get shoved to the side like that? Because you were just trying to show Charles and Xavier as the leaders, but like you made it, in my opinion, they made it seem as though all of those
00:52:51
Speaker
other mutants were much younger than the two of them. Yeah. And then they put Mystique in that group and then she starts to act more juvenile. And I don't. I don't know that didn't sit right with me. And I think some of that might be just because of how serious Charles is and how their relationship probably was repressed in even the way that he represses her mutant mutanity. And now she's just able to be
00:53:19
Speaker
be a person with these people that accept her for who she is. That's true. And then she's kind of relaxed. Let loose. Yeah. Yeah. I did. I love the training, the training stuff. And then it, like this movie, it feels like I wanted two movies out of this one. I wanted Magneto Nazi Hunter as its own separate movie. And I wanted just a movie about them training to be X-Men. Like, cause I love the sequences of them at the, when they first get to the mansion.
00:53:45
Speaker
Yeah. I do too. Uh, except, and do you want to, Oh yeah. Why does Charles not have to train? Yeah.
00:53:53
Speaker
Why is he suddenly capable of training all these people who he's never met? I almost was like really mad that he like never wore a gray tracksuit, but he does one time when he's running with Hank, but that's it. And I am just like, well, you don't have to train at all. Because he does say that one scene before they go. He's like, we'll have to train all of us. And then he's the only one who doesn't. Me though. You're right. He doesn't do shit.
00:54:18
Speaker
We're at my house, my rules. I'm Xavier. I can read all your minds and tell you, no, I trained. I trained. I've been trained in my mind. Well, I've been training by, by training you, you know, by working with each of you, I'm training my mind to manipulate you to follow my dream. And like one thing I noticed so much, right? Is that in the very beginning of the movie,
00:54:39
Speaker
It seems like Charles and Mystique have a much better hand when they're younger have a much better handle on their powers than Eric. Yeah. And then Eric goes through his life of having to use his power to survive. So then you see him and he's, you know, he seems to have
00:54:54
Speaker
He's trying to pull the submarine at the beginning and all that stuff. He seems to be more powerful. And Charles hasn't really been doing much with his gift other than party tricks. And but then we get to this place and now Charles is pushing Magneto to like level up.
00:55:13
Speaker
But he doesn't have to level up. And I just don't understand that. Like I really liked that play of how, you know, this idea of like fighting to survive or the fact that Shaw brings out that like pain and anger is what we're going to get to amplify your power. And I did appreciate the contrast of Charles saying like it's that balance between those two things like pain, anger and joy or happiness. Like that's where the sweet spot is. But just the idea that he hasn't really been honing his powers his life because he didn't
00:55:42
Speaker
He didn't need to. So why doesn't he do it now? Yeah. Another thing I really liked too was the recruiting scene, especially the cameo we got there.
Cameos and character critiques
00:55:55
Speaker
I think my two favorite moments of this movie are the scene in the bar and then
00:56:02
Speaker
when they go into the, during the recruitment, it's another bar scene. I love the bar scenes, but they walk in and it's just, there's Hugh Jackman just sitting there with his cigar and they just introduce themselves and right away just like, go fuck yourselves.
00:56:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. And I love when they bring that back. I feel like that was a well-executed cameo. If you only have them for a day and you want to really connect with the fans of the previous trilogy, that's how you do it. That was just a, and it was textbook Wolverine too. Yeah. Yeah. When I heard about that cameo, that Hugh Jackman was doing a cameo, I thought,
00:56:43
Speaker
Oh, come on, you guys can get away from Hugh Jackman for one movie, but when I actually saw it, I'm just like, okay, no, that's good, that's good. Excellent work. Yeah, the cameo, when they did, when they tried to do another cameo in Apocalypse, that felt a lot more forced. Yeah, that was the Weapon X one. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, Alicia, you being a fan of Emma Frost, what did you think of January Jones in this movie?
00:57:12
Speaker
I mean, she looks like Emma. I just, she, there is like a softness about her portrayal that I don't think is hitting the mark. I think there are a couple moments where she has like Emma flair.
00:57:34
Speaker
One being like when she cuts a hole in the glass and another one is like a little bit when she's in the room and she's like manipulating the general. I think he is like she's making him think things are happening and she's just sort of sitting there and she's like pathetic like that kind of thing.
00:57:52
Speaker
but I think there's just a softness about her confidence that isn't the right kind of, like she eludes a confidence that is of a beautiful person and not a confidence that is of a strong person. And I think that Emma has a little more salt and a little, she's just a little harder. I didn't think it was horrible. Like I liked it, but I just,
00:58:22
Speaker
I didn't feel like she was given enough authority. Like she felt very much of a side character. She had moments where like, you know, the fact that Shaw let her go and do that thing to be his representative when he was going to go off and steal all the baby mutants.
00:58:45
Speaker
I just, it felt like she was more his secretary or his assistant versus an equal, like she is in the comics. Yeah. I mean, I hate, I hate the scene when he says, you know, this needs ice and I go fetch. Oh my God. No, I will throw that glass. Yeah.
00:59:03
Speaker
Emma Frost, she would have taken the glass and she would have just smashed it in his face. But see, in that moment, I could see Shaw saying that to Emma, but I would see Emma reacting differently. Exactly. Yeah. Shaw's saying that made perfect sense for his character, but Emma just timidly accepting it and then going up and cutting that. No, no, that's not Emma. Yeah.
00:59:30
Speaker
That is, that's what I'm talking about. Like they just made her like, okay, I'm Emma. Right. They took away her, they took away her confidence in her agency as the powerful telepath that she is, especially with access to her diamond form at that time. Yeah. It's so weird because they've got, they've now, they don't try to do Emma two times in these movies. They first did in X-Men origins.
00:59:51
Speaker
And where there she had that confidence, but she had none of like the high class reading type of stuff, like the haughtiness. Here they have the haughtiness, but none of the confidence. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was an okay casting. It definitely would not be at the top. For a movie that really nails a lot of the other casting with Magneto, with Xavier, even at times with Shaw. And I feel like hers was,
01:00:20
Speaker
okay you know she does an okay job as Emma but doesn't really do the character a lot of justice and and I don't know again if that is the writing I think that's a it's a mixture of the writing but also the performance and the confidence of the character it just like feels like she's whispering she's like the whisper version of Emma right yeah and he's really like
01:00:43
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like they, the producers were watching this and they thought like, cause they had originally cast Alice Eve, who was in Star Trek Into Darkness. And I think she would have done a much better job based on, that's the only thing I've ever seen her in, but based on that little performance I saw in Into Darkness, I feel like she would have done a better job. I feel like they just kind of like, they thought, well, you know,
01:01:10
Speaker
January Jones plays a blonde woman on Mad Men. That's set in the sixties. Let's put her in this movie. I just looked up Alice Eve cause I didn't know who that was. And I, she is in the front. She already like just looking at pictures of her facial expressions are fantastic. This would have been a much better opportunity friends. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently there was like some scheduling conflict or something and she had to drop out her. Um,
01:01:36
Speaker
But it's so weird that the best Emma Frost that we've gotten in live action is from the very terrible Generation X TV movie. I haven't seen that. And it's also, I think, an argument could be made for the best Banshee as well. Because I think he was, his terrible accent notwithstanding, I mean, he embodied everything about Banshee in that movie. Yeah. Yeah. What about the...
01:02:05
Speaker
the other side of the coin. So we talked about, we talked about the first class, but what about the rest of, I keep on calling them the Brotherhood, because they don't really have a team name. They're the Hellfire Club. They're the Hellfire Club, I guess, yeah. Azazel was good. I thought Azazel was good. And I mean, it's hard to do worse with Azazel than they did in the comics. So anything they do with Azazel that is different from what Chuck Austin did is an improvement. And I think him- We don't talk about the Draco. I mean, granted he doesn't,
01:02:35
Speaker
say much. He just appears and makes a terrifying face and stabs you with his tail. But I liked it. And they really strengthened his power in terms of the distance that he can teleport and how, I mean, that is a little bit more true to him in comparison to Nightcrawler. And then there's some opportunity of like, yeah, Mystique and Azazel went off and who knows what they did. They made Baby Nightcrawler. Right.
01:03:01
Speaker
Yeah, I thought he was really well done. The choice of making him Russian, I thought was a pretty cool one. And I think a character like Azazel, like you look at that kind of description, him being part of the Hellfire Club makes so much more sense than the weird, like, I'm this other dimensional devil or something or who needs my children to open a portal in my world, even though I can easily teleport into the other world whenever I can.
01:03:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But Riptide, it just kind of felt like, it was another example of just like, oh, here's this box of character names. Let's pick one out.
01:03:44
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like Riptide was there more for his power than for his character. They were like, we need someone who can like do stuff with the water. Yeah. And attack from a distance. Cause we have no distance attackers other than Azazel has to get an area. So let's, let's vary up their power sets. Yeah. Yeah. It also felt kind of weird because aside from Emma, none of the Hellfire club appeared in any of the movies. So you could have used those, those characters. Right. Yeah.
01:04:11
Speaker
So I thought that was kind of a weird choice then when I'm like, you guys don't have to go. But overall, the Hellfire Club, it felt too much, much like Shaw was like a promo magneto. It felt too much like the brother. And I think Justin, you kind of slipped on this one you had mentioned earlier that Kevin Bacon's performance made you want to join the brother. And I'm like, yeah, that's kind of what the Hellfire Club is in this movie.
01:04:33
Speaker
Right. Cause they're not the hellfire club of the comics. They're kind of equals at least, at least the Kings and then the Queens. Right. So they're at these power positions. Whereas this just felt like Shaw and his band. Yeah.
01:04:49
Speaker
They didn't, they didn't bring, it was like, he was the president of the hellfire club. And here are some members that are on for the ride. Right. Yeah. Right. And that like, when Emma goes to have that meeting, it should just be like, I am the representative of the hellfire club here at this moment. Not I am here on Shaw's behalf. They don't even call her the white queen at any time. I don't think. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And that, that felt like a missed opportunity, especially because in the beginning you get hints of that, like with, you know, the,
01:05:17
Speaker
the generals going to the hellfire club and meeting and everything like that. And all the wheeling dealing that stuff was great. And then they got away from that and put it into brotherhood territory. Yeah. And I thought that was a really cool visually modernization of the hellfire club itself. And how this was this kind of speakeasy, uh, usually you did call out when we were watching the elaborateness of Moira's lingerie. Yeah. Why is she wearing that underneath her clothes? It's like, yeah, you never know what's going to happen.
01:05:46
Speaker
Unless like she knew, Oh, we're going to the hellfire club. So I need to be wearing something sexy, sexy under here, just in case I need to go undercover. Like I'll give her maybe that, but nobody just wears that underneath their clothes and also like to work. And I'm not saying.
01:06:06
Speaker
Like all the other girls were like done up. Like they had elaborate makeup and hair. And she was like, oh, I'm wearing a sexy outfit. So it doesn't matter that I just look normal up top. Like clearly she would stick out. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a, that's a good transition. What do you think of Rose Burns as Moira? I like to do well enough. I think that I like,
01:06:32
Speaker
The elements of Moira that she brings, I think they really changed the character of Moira in who she is, especially if we're talking pre-Hickman. As we've known Moira, there's no sense of geneticist. There's no sense of a scientist. She's a CIA agent, and I think that that gives
01:06:53
Speaker
Credence to her intelligence and I feel like Rose really plays that well and and the the seriousness of the situation and as she's approaching Xavier. So I'd like most of it. I just feel
01:07:09
Speaker
And it's a good use of her character in this connection point with Xavier and to the government funding that historically there is some connection to Xavier and government informing the X-Men. So I feel like that was nice enough to- Sorry, I just had a moment where I realized I
01:07:34
Speaker
kind of lost it for a second when Charles, they're in that meeting and Charles just flat out tells them he's a mutant. I was like, this is, because we literally were just talking about how Charles always seems, when we were doing the trial of Magneto, that Charles always seems to not be able to reveal himself, but everyone knows everyone else is a mutant, but not Charles. But that was a tangent, sorry, Moira.
01:08:00
Speaker
Um, I don't really know a lot about the character of Moira outside of Hickman and the Krakowen age. Um, but I do remember when she first came up, you were like, look at her. She's, she's got a, she's a badass with a machine gun. And I did feel like she did have those moments, you know, like she takes on a few fights and
01:08:23
Speaker
holds her own for the most part. And she's very, she very much has like a go-getter, like, I'm gonna do this attitude. So I appreciated that about her character, but I don't really know how she compares to comic Moira enough to- Yeah, I just can come back. It's so strange because we do see her in the last stand as well. And suddenly over the course of, you know, what, like 30 or 40 years or whatever it is, she became a geneticist and gained a Scottish accent.
01:08:54
Speaker
How did this happen? So yeah, it's just, and that's another one of those continuity errors that just kind of like sticks at me in this movie when it's just like, I'm like, you had three, you had four movies to watch before you wrote this movie. It wasn't that much homework. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But one of the things I did love about this too, was the costumes. I thought this, I thought this was a brilliant way to
01:09:22
Speaker
meld like the comic book costumes and make them look realistic.
01:09:27
Speaker
Yeah, I totally agree. I wrote that down. I was like, I really love the way that they pulling from, you know, the comic images, but making these suits their own thing. Yeah, it was, and it struck a balance not only between, you know, you have the black leather of the originals, you have the tactical uniforms of this set, but also some individuality. And that's really a big part about the X-Men is that they don't have, oftentimes they don't have a unifying aesthetic. They'd have their own,
01:09:56
Speaker
uniforms, but this had just enough of a unification, but Alex has his little satellite dish. Banshee has his wings. And that just felt really good. Almost as good as what, that was probably my favorite moment of the costumes in the X-Men franchise, except for that tease at the end of, I think it's the apocalypse. Oh, apocalypse. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:10:25
Speaker
where they're all wearing pretty comic accurate looking uniforms and they're about to enter a danger room sequence and that never gets followed up on ever again. I'm angry about that. Why would you tease me with that and not do anything with it?
01:10:38
Speaker
I, we did a, I did a dark Phoenix episode, um, few episodes back and that was one of the things. And like, I wasn't completely sold on those. I felt those comments, the end of apocalypse. I felt like they were, I had some issues with them. I thought they looked a little bit, they didn't quite, they didn't look streamlined enough, but I liked the idea behind it. And then the idea, and then just going from that to black unitards with the yellow X on the front, just felt like such a missed opportunity. Yeah.
01:11:05
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that. I need to visually see it. Yeah, these costumes, I think, were the best that we've seen in the movies so far. I thought that was like the perfect melding of those two.
01:11:19
Speaker
Yeah. Although it did throw me a little bit to see Charles and Magneto in them. I was like, ah, Magneto in blue and yellow. It's not for me. I also loved the helmet in this. Even though it looks ridiculous on Kevin Bacon for most of the movie, as soon as Fashbender puts it on, it's perfect. It's so perfect. It shapes the way it looks.
01:11:43
Speaker
shapes his face, you see future magneto. Like you see the connection between the two of them. It's so beautiful. It's kind of disappointing because this is the best helmet we've seen. It's like comics accurate, perfect. And they never use this helmet again. I don't know why, because it's like you said, it does. It fits his face perfectly. It looks big enough. My biggest problem with the one that Ian McKellen always wore is it looks like it's crushing his skull.
01:12:12
Speaker
That looks uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. And I also love Magneto's look at the end here when he's painted it red and purple and he's wearing the cape and everything and he's even added the little, little thing. I feel like that and I was thinking this as we were watching it. So that moment there, as much as I love Days of Future Past, I wish that they had done a film in between because I feel like you really set up
01:12:40
Speaker
something else and that would have, you know, Days of Future Past is one of my favorites. It's probably easily my favorite of the more recent X-Men movies. And I feel like
01:12:53
Speaker
missed opportunity to explore a little bit more of the dichotomy between Xavier's side and Magneto's side. Show me their teams going up or show me something else in that time because you hit it strong with this reboot and then immediately you're like, oh, but it's tying into this thing. And it's a great movie, but you could have spaced that out. And then it's like, where do you go from there? You've gotten really good, really, really good.
01:13:21
Speaker
trying to capture that magic ever since. And then there's Logan and Logan's great and the Deadpool movies and they're great. Yeah. And when you were saying about your favorite X-Men movies, like I was just, that just kept running through my head. I'm like, are you counting Logan and the Deadpool movies in that too?
01:13:35
Speaker
No, that wasn't when I said that. And I'd still, Days of Future Past is still, and we were guessing on another podcast talking about movies. And I was like, no, Days of Future Past is probably my favorite above Logan. And the guy was like, what, are you serious? It's just, it's more of an X-Men movie.
01:13:55
Speaker
It's got so much of the comic connection seeped into it, but enough that it makes it work for where the franchise was at, that the fact that they're able to pull that off, I just loved it. I love, I like Days of Future Past. My whole thing with that is it feels like a movie that was made in a world before Avengers came out. And it feels like it's still kind of, I feel like in a post Avengers world,
01:14:25
Speaker
we should have gotten a little bit more leaning into the superhero side of things. I agree. Is my biggest thing about that movie, but I do love it for the most part. And I like the road cut, even though there are some story problems it creates, but I do love the, I do love that we got to see more of the future stuff. That's one of the things, if I have one to complain about Days of Future Past, it's that I wanted to see more of what the world is like in the future. Yeah, yeah. Okay.
01:14:54
Speaker
Guys, you have any anything final thoughts you want to say about first class. Hold on, let me consult my notes. I think we talked about everything that I found very important.
01:15:10
Speaker
Yeah, it was really just that and I'm glad I got to say it was, I really thought that they could have nailed another movie in between First Class and Days of Future Past because they even don't even have it deal with Magneto, you know, have. Have it deal with Magneto. Have Juggernaut, have Mr. Sinister, have Soron, do anything else knowing that, you know, it's
01:15:34
Speaker
change up the team a little bit, add another character or two. I just feel like that was a missed opportunity, especially, and I harped on this when we talked about Days of Future Past, the comic.
Franchise potential and future opportunities
01:15:44
Speaker
The comic is set, the future version of the comic is set the year before the movie actually came out. So you've missed that opportunity to connect it in the year that it actually came out, which I feel like, you know, I didn't want to rush that. But if you're already going to miss that opportunity,
01:15:59
Speaker
Push it out a little bit further. Give me another movie in between that's going to be really great. And then that's the trilogy. That's the and then do whatever the hell else you want. And now that you've said it a couple of times, I really would like to see Magneto Nazi Hunter. Yeah. As a movie. And just as like a little aside, I have this fan fiction in my head of Magneto and Hydra.
01:16:23
Speaker
And when we were watching this, I was like, it's right there, people. Shaw is working with the Nazis. He has Magneto. He's clearly experimenting on this child. Hydra should be involved. And then Magneto can go back and hunt all the Hydra people down. It will be fantastic. Let's do it.
01:16:41
Speaker
I would love to see that. Yeah. Working and that'd be a good way to work them into the, into the MCU then, uh, exactly that most, mostly I'm, I'm, I'm a proponent of rebooting the X-Men completely in the MCU. But if you're going to bring back anyone, you know, you got to bring back Ryan Reynolds. And I think fast fenders, the other one I make the argument. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I agree with, I think the, the easiest thing to do is just a clean break, but, but just give me a microphone.
01:17:10
Speaker
Well, no, it works. I don't care. Somebody has crossed over from one bond universe into the other. So why can't Michael Fassbender? I don't care if it doesn't make sense. I just want it. No. Nothing else made sense. So why start making sense now? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of stuff in these movies that just, when you've watched these movies as many times as I have, those little continuity errors get more and more obvious every time.
01:17:37
Speaker
Yeah. And it was, it was early on into the pandemic that we watched the entirety of the every X-Men movie in chronological or in release order. And, and really doing that in a condensed amount of time points out those things like, Hey, I feel like I could have made a better X-Men movie at various times, just watching the films and knowing the comics. Like, Hey, you could have put a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was the biggest failing of these movies is that the
01:18:07
Speaker
You had people who were calling the shots that weren't necessarily fans of the X-Men beforehand. Whereas with the MCU, you've got Kevin Feige, who was clearly a diehard Marvel fan, and that's driving everything behind those rules.
01:18:22
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I think on X-Men 1, they didn't allow comics on set that that was some- Oh, really? I didn't know that. Great app Foolish. Right. They didn't want any comics on set at all. They really wanted to dive into just modernizing it and taking a different turn. The fact that Hugh Jackman was reading his own stuff hidden from everything else just so he could get a little bit more of the characterization of Logan. Well, yeah. I mean, the bug line he says in the first movie, he had to ad-lib that because that wasn't in the script at all.
01:18:53
Speaker
Right, right. And then after the success of the first movie, it was like, oh, okay, maybe we should go back to the source material and kind of half adapt to God Loves Man Kills. Yeah, yeah. That's, I think that's, yeah, lots of missed opportunities with this franchise, which I'm hoping now we can course correct and we can get some really interesting stuff. I trust in Feige. Yeah, me too. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's yet to steer me wrong. Iron Man 3 notwithstanding, that's the only one I-
01:19:22
Speaker
But he redeemed himself when we got Shan Chi, so I'm good with that now. Yes. Oh, I love that. So good. I'll get on a tangent, Alicia.
Podcast recommendations and listener support
01:19:30
Speaker
OK, guys, you want to promote your stuff for one last time before you close up? Oh, we would love to. Thank you so much. You can find us all over the Internet and wherever you get your podcasts at The Ex-Wife Podcast. That's T-H-E-X-W-I-F-E podcast as in X-Men, not former wife.
01:19:51
Speaker
We do comic episodes about the new comics every week. And then occasionally we dip back into some classic episodes about older stories. Like we just did the trial of Magneto to tie into the current storyline called trial of Magneto, but also recently had done the demon bear saga, which is the source material for the new mutants movie and some other fan favorites throughout the years.
01:20:18
Speaker
All right. Well, guys, thanks so much for coming on. It was great getting to meet you. It was great having you, talking with you about these movies. As for us, superherocinephiles.com, SuperCinephilePod is our Twitter and Instagram. And we've got the Facebook group, SuperheroCinephiles, just search for that. And yeah, that does it for us. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
01:20:41
Speaker
You have been listening to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. Follow us on Twitter and Instagram at SuperCinemapod. Join our Facebook group by searching for Superhero Cinephiles where you can interact with us and other superhero fans. If you'd like to support the show, you can become a regular supporter at Patreon,
01:20:57
Speaker
or make a one-time donation through PayPal, both of which can be found at our website, SuperheroCinephiles.com. If you buy or rent any movies through the Amazon links at our site, it helps support the show. Please be sure to rate and
Closing remarks and gratitude
01:21:09
Speaker
review us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:21:30
Speaker
Thank you for listening and as always good night. Good evening. God bless.