Transcript
Alexis: It's cold season. And by cold season, I mean like physically cold. I'm just like constantly trying to keep my fingers warm as I type.
Plant People: Oh, I didn't, I didn't know where you were going with that. Okay.
Brett: Some people do have have some diseases these days.
Plant People: mean, it is flu, cold and flu season.
Brett: There has been more and more people getting being sick.
Plant People: yeah Yeah.
Alexis: That's true. Yes, people are dropping like flies. Yes, I've already had my first first dose of cold and flu season.
Plant People: It seems too early for that.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: But then again, cold weather is here in Kentucky. Sometimes it comes early. Sometimes it doesn't. Oh, We discussed on what the last episode episode we talked a little bit about, I guess, official beginning of winter, which we're in in all cases, I guess.
Plant People: But yeah, people are huddled indoors and getting sick.
Alexis: Oh, yeah, it's about get code.
Brett: Yeah, you all, so so where where you live, Ray, you now have had already two snow, this is the second snow day?
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah.
Plant People: ah It is the second snow day and as far as our local schools go, which is a little bit unusual for Kentucky for it to be this early in the season and have two days of school that are already out.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Not big, significant snows, but, you know, a little two, three inch snows. And that's sometimes as much as we would get all winter here in ah the central part of this state. But we've already gotten that.
Plant People: So I would say a good, a good, strong start to a traditional winter. Maybe the Currier and I's version of winter. I don't know.
Brett: And your're you're we reminded how old is Reed and his cronies?
Plant People: Reed is 12. He is 12, him and his buddies.
Brett: Twelve. Okay.
Plant People: They're roughly the same age within a couple of years here in the neighborhood. His little group of dudes.
Alexis: squad of Goonies.
Plant People: Yeah, this it's the Goonie Squad for real here in the neighborhood.
Brett: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: And on snow days, I have to switch around where I am recording because, you know, usually we like to have a quiet environment and we don't have that on snow days.
Alexis: it
Plant People: There's six to seven, 10 to 12 to 13 year olds running around the house, all juiced up on all forms of caffeine and sugar and on the euphoria of a snow day.
Plant People: So there's lots of emotions running through our household and lots of volume, lots of volume.
Brett: Man.
Brett: Well, this is that this is that time of year where we have like a seasonal mechanism for social control of children. ah it used to be It used to just be Santa Claus.
Alexis: Creepy.
Brett: well well I guess it used to be, depending on how far back we go. And then it was like Elf on a Shelf 2 is sort of like a surveillance state.
Plant People: Oh yeah, the Surveyor, 1994, yeah.
Brett: Foucauldian...
Alexis: creepy
Brett: Yeah. Panoptical little dude moving around with ah magical abilities. But there's also there was also from some of the the cultures that still, I guess, except still still get down with this and historically have to a little less more of a carrot, you know, be good or you get or sorry, be good and you get presents and more like don't be bad or a devilish character such as Krampus will take you off to You insert imagination of a child of all the terrible things that Krampus could do to them.
Alexis: Eat you.
Plant People: Yes.
Brett: And so, yeah, I was curious if you all grew up with with mechanisms of social control via imaginary creatures, because I think I grew up with a out a disproportionate number of them.
Plant People: I mean, other than the surveillance state that is, you know, Santa Claus is watching you. And then we didn't have Elf on a Shelf growing up where I would have been really nervous. having an onsize on-site snitch. I would have been really nervous, but we did not have that. But yeah, there was a certain amount of you better be good or Santa is not coming. Yeah, there was some of that in a traditional sense for sure.
Plant People: Absolutely. But it sounds like, Brett, that you had some, even some other forms. ah
Brett: Year round. It was not seasonal.
Plant People: you're Oh, okay.
Brett: It was not a seasonal thing.
Plant People: Not seasonal. So it sounds like you needed you needed that extra push maybe into goodness.
Brett: Yeah. So there was there was one variation on this.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: So the i grew up in a family of very strong, like a lot of people, a very strong matriarchal dominated culture. And my mom and her sisters, they all kind of sound alike.
Brett: They have a similar intensity and penchant for scaring children. And so she one of them was was this person called the Toe Woman, who if you if you didn't if you got out of bed or you were out of bed after you know bedtime without you know permission, or this woman came and and you could hear her coming for the sound of this clickety clack of a necklace made of the bones of children's toes who did not stay in bed.
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: The toe woman.
Plant People: Wow.
Brett: The tow woman.
Plant People: The toe woman.
Brett: That was one.
Plant People: Okay.
Brett: There was another guy.
Plant People: That, mean, that's terrifying. It it really is.
Brett: Yeah, it feels very old world. ah
Plant People: Yes.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Brett: There's another guy called Mr. Dump. That was like, the I don't know exactly. Again, the the key with these things is to give the children just enough to set their imagination in motion.
Brett: And let them let their imagination then act back upon themselves. Again, i mentioned Foucault, the the theorist, would have a field day with this, internalizing the surveillance state into the... I was a cop's kid already. I had nightmares about Saddam Hussein as like the boogeyman in my closet.
Brett: I was already gone. But Mr. Dump was another one that... He he he frequented our local pool, ah and if... if you were you know drifted too far away and you know you were out of sight, out of whatever.
Brett: And it was one of those things where like if you were acting up, so you know the the the the mother in charge would say, you know oh, I think I see Mr. Dump over there. And you would turn and look. And of course, you wouldn't see him, but it was like, I saw him, but even then he was gone. And so...
Brett: when I came across Krampus, like in a, probably in college sometime just before the whole big movie and everything came out, I was like, whoa, this is from my cultural frame.
Plant People: Well, by that time, you were like, that guy's nothing.
Brett: And this guy seems a little tame, honestly.
Plant People: no i was going to say, by that time of your life, he probably seems like he was an amateur. Him and Yule Cat and Yule Lads and all the other you know holiday beasties from around the world, they probably didn't seem so intimidating
Brett: Yeah.
Brett: And then, The guy, Black Peter Schwarze Peter from like a German Austrian kind of influence. I was like, yeah, this, this punitive approach to child childhood control feels familiar.
Brett: And, you know, ah but I don't know. I like there's something really cool and folkloric about it. And there also is something deeply disturbing about it too.
Plant People: Yeah. Well, you know, they say fear is a good motivator. So I guess it's ah especially so with children, maybe in the reformative stages, I guess, of their lives.
Brett: It is.
Plant People: ah Object terror is a good motivator. I don't know. I don't know.
Brett: Yeah, when I think to that, like, with with a lot of these scary things and and different ah ghosts and goblins and other things to one of the things, you know, this is something that people are inviting in to their, their, their mythology and their worldview to to use to keep children in line around Christmas. But there's also times people want to scare those those creatures away. And one of the things that they would typically maybe do would be to burn some sage, which is an herb But like, how are you going to do that in the middle of winter?
Brett: How are you going to have herbs on hand in the middle of winter to exercise the demons and the other creatures?
Plant People: I see what you're doing here, Brett. Yeah.
Brett: Do you all have any sense of that?
Alexis: Just chef's kiss, Brett, on the transition, just chef's kiss.
Plant People: Brett was just, he was leading us to this point the entire time of indoor herbs.
Alexis: i'm I'm so impressed. as As always, I am, but that that extra kick of caffeine you had earlier, is it's working for you. ah
Plant People: I mean, he, I feel like Brett always works on a roadmap.
Brett: We're back and we're back.
Plant People: He's always has, a he's, if he were the team, he would definitely be the one making the plans. I'm just saying. Brett, you have a master plan. So well done, sir. Well done.
Brett: Yeah, so how how how might we grow some herbs during the middle of winter time?
Alexis: Well, the ants take it.
Plant People: Well, yeah, we're always trying to think of things in the wintertime to do in horticulture.
Alexis: Indoor herb gardens.
Plant People: And that's one of the things that you can do. I don't do that a whole lot unless i have an existing herb pot that like a perennial herb or something that I bring in.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Sometimes I I do that, but yeah, you can grow herbs indoors. Do you guys get into any of that yourselves? um Herb, like windowsill herb gardens?
Alexis: i had I had a little mini aquaponic system at one time that was just like a fish tank with a beta in it.
Plant People: Mm-hmm. Of course you did. Yeah.
Alexis: And it had, ah and it had I got it for Christmas one year. And so I was able to do some herbs up on the top of the fish tank that way. And it was pretty cool.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: Herbs and sprouts and um those types of things. We just did the annual, I just did the annual version of it. But ah yeah, it was fun and had its own like light source and all that kind of stuff.
Plant People: um Yeah, I've worked with ah master gardeners and i I don't give this much thought, but the perennial herbs, some of those ah that they've had for years and years and they would bring, you know, those things.
Alexis: It was very, all encompassing for plant health.
Plant People: in and outside and they would have some herbs 15, 20 years old, the same group of herbs, um perennials that they, they described the situation to me where they protected them for all those years and were careful and they had them in a larger pot.
Brett: Okay.
Plant People: So yeah, they, they did a great job, but they, when they brought them inside that, you know they stressed to me that with indoor herbs, I mean, most of the common herbs that I think of when I think of herbs that are appropriate,
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: to bring inside. They're all from the Mediterranean region of the world, right? Which means a couple of things.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Lots and lots of sunlight and usually rocky, drier soils. um So anytime I think about plants and and bringing them inside, and I think we discussed this on several earlier episodes, is the first thing you think about is, well, what's the native growing habitat of those plants?
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: So lots of sunlight and you know drying out in between waterings that's kind of their native habit but the sunlight is the thing that gets me when bringing herbs indoors it seems like that's that's the biggest hurdle uh there is getting enough light in the winter time even if you have a south-facing window it still presents challenges um and sometimes you just have to add that extra sunlight it seems like
Alexis: Yeah.
Alexis: Yeah, you really need the supplemental. But from the Mediterranean herbs in the pots, like I'm thinking rosemary, lavender, ah maybe some sage.
Plant People: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Alexis: Are there some other ones that they were maybe time? Time can be a perennial depending on the species of it as far as um keeping it planted outside.
Alexis: But I've... scene where people bring those into like a garage setting. So it's not they just kind of let them go dormant, but they're trying not to expose them to the harshness, the real harshness of winter, but they're letting them get cold versus something like, uh, that needs warm weather is a true annual, like a basil or something would be something you would bring indoors, keeping it warm, lots of extra light, and it's continually growing.
Plant People: nine
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: Um,
Brett: Interesting.
Plant People: um
Brett: So when you all said indoor her but herb gardening, I wasn't even really, I wasn't imagining something that started its life outside. I was imagining like starting, even starting the seeds and them growing, like like it it living most of its life indoors from the jump.
Plant People: Like Basil is a good one. Yeah, something like that.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: yeah.
Alexis: Yeah.
Plant People: yeah
Brett: Basil one of them that we've done before of just, it's like a, it's kind of like a house plant you grow from seed that
Alexis: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: You know, you throw a couple of leaves, they're pretty powerful.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: But, ah you know, one of the things I think in general with the indoor gardening stuff, and and we talked about it as winter, but it's important to remember too that like there's some people, they live in apartments or they in some way that maybe there's a mobility concern or something.
Alexis: Yeah.
Brett: And like you can do the indoor plant stuff sometimes. regardless year round, whenever, you know, whenever you can make it work.
Plant People: Sure.
Brett: But I think sometimes like it's just so tempting to rely on the great powerful sun and seasonal cycle and just grow so much stuff outside during the year that the indoor stuff, it's a, it's a more, it's a patient person's, a patient gardener's game.
Alexis: yeah
Plant People: Yeah, 100%. one hundred percent Yeah.
Brett: ah And sometimes those Instagram ads with, I bought this, you know, pop-up ah plant grower and now I grow all the vegetables that I eat.
Alexis: um
Brett: It's like, so I'm like, man, that's...
Alexis: I've been getting a lot of those lately.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: yeah
Plant People: Oh, yeah.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis: The big wall, she's got like a whole wall and she's like, I have 200 vegetable plants on my wall.
Brett: Whoa.
Alexis: And I'm like, do you?
Brett: Okay. okay It's just going to call us the collapse the wall.
Plant People: Yeah, it's definitely – I mean it it is –
Alexis: Yeah.
Plant People: Our expectations are, you know, set by the best part of our growing season. Long days, you know, in the summer, lots of sunlight, lots of warmth. And, we you know, usually it'll dry out in between waterings unless we're giving supplemental waterings, you know, to make it more consistent. But yeah, you bring those things on the inside, Brett, that's a great point. And like basil is a good one. You bring, but you can, you know, grow basil on the inside, no problem. But When you pinch that, the regenerative nature of basil, I mean, which responds awesome to pinching.
Plant People: It just doesn't grow as fast on the inside, even though I give it supplemental light. And we're not talking about professional lighting kits, you know, super high, you know, discharge type of lighting kits.
Plant People: We're talking, you know, things accessible to homeowners. But, you know, the basil is going to grow slower.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: And not only grow slower, but I've noticed over the years, and I thought it was me at first, but now I don't think so because other people have mentioned it. the intensity of flavors. Have you guys ever noticed that if you're doing like cilantro or even like parsley, you know, some of the other annuals, um they, you know, basil is still going taste like basil, but like the, even the intensity, the growth rate slower and even the intensity of flavors isn't what you would get.
Plant People: Like, you know, if it were to be grown outside in the summertime, all of that's a little bit different.
Alexis: Yeah.
Brett: it is It is more intense and more flavorful than dried basil is.
Plant People: Yes.
Alexis: It's
Plant People: Good point.
Brett: You know, and that's the thing.
Plant People: Yes.
Brett: So I realized I started us down the path of being like, well, indoor not as good as outdoor because the power of the sun is more powerful than this little light bulb that we put on this thing.
Alexis: true. Different expectations.
Brett: So you have to, yeah, adjust your expectations and be like compared to what I, you know, if I put this plane outside right now in 27 degree weather, the one inside is doing pretty good compared to that.
Plant People: sure yeah
Alexis: Yeah.
Brett: And compared to shaking it out of the shaker or if I'm out, you know, running out of basil now.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah. yeah
Brett: But yeah, about the intensity thing. I don't know if that's like, i I have no actual hard information here, but I do have enough to speculate wildly about what that might be. That maybe there is sort of like a ah health component where the thing isn't growing as vigorously. It's not as strong, so it's not producing some of those compounds that are probably there, not...
Brett: to taste delicious to you and me, but to taste weird and off putting insects or others. um That's one, one potential.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: It could be that also they're growing slowly. So the compounds are just accumulating more slowly as well.
Plant People: Probably in soilless media even. I mean, you're not you know that you're not getting that mineral profile of natural mineral-based soils.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: But once again, Brett, ah your point is well taken, is that fresh basil that you nip off the, I mean, it's still going to be as far as, ah it's going to be a superior product to me that you can grow inside
Alexis: Yeah.
Alexis: Plus it's just, there's like a mental, like having that like green thing that you're like fresh thing that you're eating, you know, even if it's just like a little bit of something, um, just always feels a little bit better.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: Uh, a little, just a little, there's a little more life in there, you know? Yeah.
Brett: Mm-hmm. That's what I remember when we talk about stuff like this, it reminds me of being a kid and um like thinking about and learning about the space stations and other space missions where they would grow like hydroponic plants.
Brett: And it wasn't because there were, they were incapable of taking enough nutrition to, you know, do, but like seeing something grow and having it grow and and even eating from it.
Brett: As you're saying, Alexis, it has this less, this more ineffable, um
Alexis: Yeah, there's
Brett: hard hard to pin down positive effect on the psyche and the body and everything else.
Alexis: Yeah. Because I you know i've have houseplants, lots of houseplants, I've always had houseplants. And so yes, there's that like special of the green things, the warmth of the green things, especially when I'm seeing snow outside.
Alexis: But then like if I have some herb plants or something inside, that next step of like being able to harvest and eat from it, is just there's just like another layer of joy and something to that, I think, beyond just the regular houseplants that's going on.
Alexis: Catgrass is a really easy one. It's not necessarily an herb we think about a lot, but ah yeah, well, I i was...
Plant People: Your cat to enjoy it.
Alexis: I remember the year that when I was in horticulture club at UK in the spring, it was like one of those years where Easter was super early. so it was still really cold outside. And so, you know, we're, all itching for green things. And so the Hort Club grew these little things that they look like Easter baskets, but they put cat grass in them.
Alexis: Really lush, really full. You know, it's for your cat. it's not It's not for me. It's for my cat. But they're like bringing that inside for the cat, like having that green, fresh, just like smell to it. And then watching the cat get all excited about it And there was just... um And it was so that's such an easy thing to grow like any time of year and it grows so quickly that you don't need a ton of supplemental light. So it's like instant gratification, you know, it's like hitting the hitting the order button when you fill your card up and you're like, yeah, yeah, that's what that's what some of these herbs are for me. It's like instant, almost instant gratification in a way.
Plant People: Yeah. I'm trying to think of some of the, I mean, basil is one that I, and I do like growing that fresh. Like you said, instant gratification. I need that something that grows fast. But when you said that, it really made me think about the way that I use a product that's not really an herb.
Alexis: It's fast.
Plant People: And we've talked about it before on the podcast and that's micro greens because you know, you you're growing broccoli or sunflowers or alfalfa.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: what I mean, there's lots of things you can grow as a micro green, but I never thought about it, but I,
Alexis: Herbs included.
Plant People: ah Yeah, our herbs included. um ah Microgreens are one of those things. Instant gratification, it has it in spades because seven to 12 days, I mean, you have a crop that you're harvesting. And that's something that's just green growing in the windowsill doesn't take a lot of sunlight compared to a lot of herbs. But I use those just to get flavor in the wintertime.
Plant People: ah you know, depending on you know what I'm growing. But there's there's that herb kind of component to microgreens. And I guess I include those like micro, or I include those in like the herb category.
Alexis: Oh, you know what another... Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: yeah Yeah, it's that indoor growing herbs are just kind of one of the easier ones, I think, from like an edible standpoint.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: Herbs are an easier one.
Plant People: eatmen
Alexis: But one um we haven't mentioned yet that's a perennial and you should be wary of but is great for indoors, is mints. Different types of mints.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: Specifically, I think the peppermints and spearmints, they're like a smaller leaf.
Plant People: That's,
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: they're not They don't have as much hair. They're not as pubescent. So I think that like takes some of the energy away.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: um And there's some of the better ones to eat. But Mint is really easy. If you know somebody with a mint plant, guess what? You can also have a mint plant because it roots so easy in water.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: um And then, yeah, it just doesn't take a lot. It grows pretty fast. A supplemental light would surely help, but isn't, think, honestly, in a window. It'll get pretty leggy, but it would survive.
Alexis: um And yeah.
Plant People: Mint's one that the the master gardeners mentioned that they grew that was older, ah really old, but it was in a larger container.
Alexis: and present Yeah. Yeah.
Plant People: They did tell me, yeah, yeah you you want to cordon that off.
Alexis: You should not plant it in the ground. Unless you're going to mow around it like I do.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's one, Alexis, that I keep forgetting about, but that's one they referenced was mint.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: And they said, well, you know, most of the herbs they were growing in six inch pots, but they specifically told me for mint that it, if you're going to have it, you know, for a long period of time, put that in a larger pot if you plan on Bringing it in and out, but yeah, that's a good one.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Men is one of those kind of low maintenance sort of things.
Alexis: Mm-hmm. And like, it's that freshness that you can add to dishes or drinks, you know, like we're all trying to drink more water this time of year, probably because we're all drying out, as I've said multiple times before.
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: But you know, you can infuse your water with it and you get that kind of freshness. There's just like a lot of applications, I think, for mint. And it's just such an easy one to have inside. You know, make you a little mocktail, little Christmas drink, whatever, New Year's Eve drink.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: It's good stuff. Chaves are one that I always forget about too. That's another perennial. Chaves are, I would say on the easier scale, I'd put those kind of with mint and chaves are something that you could put in a lot of different things like that.
Plant People: Lemon balm, same thing. Lemon balm you can do. It's been a long time since I've done lemon balm, but I really love the lemony kind of zesty sort of stuff in the wintertime.
Alexis: And it's because it's in the mint family, right? Lemon balm is.
Plant People: Yeah, I think so.
Alexis: it's so it's, yeah, it's ah got a nice square stem on it.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: So.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: easy easy to grow as well.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: Basically, if it has a square sin, it's probably easy to grow. we We keep saying basil's easy to grow. Guess what? Basil's in the mint family. so
Plant People: Anything with a square stem by definition is a mint. ah
Brett: think Do you think that the mint family refers to their the black sheep of the family as the lemon balm of the family?
Plant People: Could be Brett, you could be onto something.
Alexis: I don't know. I don't know if it would be that one. What would the, um the, I mean, like hen mint, purple dead nettle are both in the mint family as well.
Brett: Something to think about.
Plant People: Uh-huh.
Alexis: So yeah.
Brett: more like a quirky ant, you know? like
Alexis: Okay.
Brett: Just like fun...
Alexis: but but
Plant People: That has, that's maybe viewed as, you know, positive quirk.
Alexis: A little bit of a nuisance sometimes when they're around too much.
Plant People: Uh-huh.
Brett: followed, followed Pearl Jam in the nineties or something like, I don't know if for us, I mean, ah oregano does really well in our garden.
Alexis: um
Brett: I'm almost a like it said, sometimes it feels like almost like mint where it's just taking off and taking over and spreading and everything else. And and I'm, I'm thinking too, like if you are going to cook with stuff,
Brett: We've mentioned basil. Now I've mentioned oregano chives. You could, you could make work. And if you had a rosemary plant, you know, what is it?
Brett: Boom. You got a stew going. You got a, you got a sauce going.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah. That's the big stuff.
Brett: yeah
Plant People: Yeah. You can do a whole recipe or two.
Brett: If you can do some tomatoes or you got to get your hand on some that. And like once every couple of weeks, you can make a fresh herb ah sand ah sandwich, fresh herb sauce going through the winter time with oregano, basil,
Brett: I mean, you could you could put all this stuff in, you know, it depends on how herby you like it. And I think it it's also an excuse to get a little more familiar with those flavors and maybe experiment with them and in different dishes. um i could even imagine a little bit of mint in ah in a tomato sauce working pretty well, but i don't i don't i I made a funny face because I don't like mint.
Brett: Like, I don't really like infused water flavors at all. It's just, I don't know. I don't know what it is.
Alexis: you don't like lemon in your water or anything?
Brett: Not really.
Alexis: Huh.
Brett: not lemon, not a cucumber. What in the heck are we doing? Why don't I just eat the cucumber?
Alexis: it's
Brett: Cause it has so much water in it.
Alexis: It's mostly just water anyways.
Plant People: It is water.
Brett: Yeah, exactly.
Alexis: Yeah.
Plant People: Cucumber is water. Yeah.
Brett: Uh, I mean, it's fine. I love when people do it. I'm happy for them. And like, I do understand some people want a little flavor and it encourages them to drink more water. i am that's, um, I just, I'm not a pure, um, yeah, I guess I am.
Alexis: A water purist, huh?
Brett: I guess I am, but I don't like, I just, I just like the lack of taste of water or the the taste of water or whatever you want to call it.
Plant People: It's nothing but the water.
Brett: um But ah yeah, so we, we've said basil, we've said rosemary, thyme. ah this is like, are you, yeah.
Plant People: Parsley, chives.
Brett: Are you going Scarborough fair?
Brett: Listed them off.
Alexis: Mint.
Brett: um Mint, parsley,
Plant People: yeah
Brett: Did we say parsley?
Plant People: Somebody said parsley.
Alexis: No, I don't.
Brett: i've I've seen people do parsley inside before.
Alexis: Oh, I didn't say. Yeah.
Brett: I think i I have trouble with germination sometimes on parsley.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: Yeah.
Plant People: It's the one that does better with lower light.
Alexis: Parsley and cilantro.
Plant People: It doesn't take a lot as light, as much light.
Alexis: yeah Well, and parsley and cilantro tend to like to be a little cooler when they start, which can, you know, aid if you are doing some winter growing or even inside.
Plant People: Hmm.
Alexis: Like if you're growing it inside any time of the year, it's often, you know, like cooler in the summer in your house. So they prefer to have a cooler start. So that could be beneficial to you as well.
Alexis: That's where a lot of people mess up because they see the cilantro and the parsley out in the stores in you know in Kentucky, it would be May, right after our last frost.
Alexis: Really, they should have been planted weeks before and then they bolt really quickly and you don't get a lot of parsley and cilantro.
Plant People: Two.
Alexis: So here's your tip. They prefer to be cool. So plant them in April.
Brett: So as far as citing things, um, not citing your sources with a C, but citing your plants with an S, uh, is this the same as house plants?
Brett: Is it different? Is it, what's the, what's the vibe on like where we might want to put stuff?
Plant People: killed
Brett: And you're saying some stuff cooler, some stuff warmer. I'm assuming that's within the realms of what we keep our houses at, uh,
Plant People: I would say the golden rule is what I've always experienced is the brightest window as you can find and then add light on top of that, especially for like, you know, we mentioned basil, even parsley, which doesn't take as much sunlight as basil, not nearly, it's more tolerant, but even that I find does better in the brightest window I can find. And then I add 12 hours of supplemental light on top of that with some sort of time light.
Plant People: That, as far as looking for a location to put those, Brett, a sunny windowsill around patio doors, a sunroom, if you have it, just as much sun.
Alexis: yeah
Plant People: Because once again, remember, we're talking about Mediterranean plants for the most part. Sun lovers. Sun lovers.
Alexis: Unless you get a draft because you have old windows or old doors.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: In that case, for those like you know ah herbs that you tend to see in the summer, such as basil, I'd rather you put them somewhere else but give them a you know supplemental lighting that way.
Plant People: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: My house is very drafty, so I have to be careful about what I put in the windows and closer to the doors.
Plant People: Yeah. Mm.
Alexis: So i' I'll put them against...
Plant People: Sun and heat lovers. Yeah.
Alexis: Yeah, yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: So just is in the wintertime especially, that's going to be important.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: that And then also don't, we we say it with houseplants, I mean, essentially, your herbs are now houseplants, right? So don't overwater them. um Like Ray has said multiple times, these are a lot of these are Mediterranean plants, you're going to let them get a little bit dry before you go in and water them.
Alexis: And that's going to help with flavor, but it's also going to help them from rotting. um That's going to be pretty important.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: So
Plant People: That's why if you oversize the pot, a lot of these herbs we're talking about today, a six inch pot is fine. That also allows them to dry out in between waterings.
Alexis: Yeah.
Plant People: If you get too much of a volume of a high quality potting soil, it can work against you.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: It doesn't want to, especially you have to be very careful of using potting soils with moisture modifiers in them because herbs do not like those because they stay moist in between waterings and a lot of these herbs, the roots will just rot on those.
Alexis: yeah
Plant People: And the same goes for, you have to be kind of careful of potting soil and mixes that are infused with some sort of fertilizer. ah because in the wintertime, herbs need less fertilizer, just like our houseplants.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: And you're talking about a very light application of fertilizer every four to six weeks. If the label says X amount, you cut that in a half or a third for herbs growing on the inside.
Plant People: And it goes back to what Brett mentioned earlier, that the the growth rate is slower in the wintertime. So, yeah, you need less fertilizer and you got to be careful with the volume of ah mix that you're using to grow your herbs in.
Alexis: If you brought in your herbs um from the outside and, again, you're at the point now where you're like, maybe it doesn't look quite right or whatever. The benefit about herbs is if they're the ones that you're you know you're eating, you're kind of doing some natural pruning to them.
Alexis: um So don't be afraid to take some off.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: ah Like what I have – this variegated basil that's very a very upright it's called a columnar basil so it's very upright and so it's it's it is edible but it's more for cuts basil is actually good cut um for cut flower production anyway so it's a nice variegated upright i have mother plants um that i take cuttings from but those mother plants that i put outside and then I'll bring indoors, um, for the winter. I cut way back. Like, I mean, we're talking like there's one little chunk of leaves still there, for, for multiple reasons, insects, all kinds of stuff. But, um,
Alexis: That allows them to start reflushing once we start getting past the winter solstice and we get light coming back.
Plant People: yeah yeah
Alexis: And then I'll take cuttings of that. But if you're using it to eat, ah then you're kind of naturally doing some of that pruning, but you don't have to be extra careful. They don't need a ton of foliage, even with supplemental light this time of year.
Brett: Yeah, I think one of the interesting things about plants so with the with the leaves in particular is that leaves are both a an asset and a liability ah in the sense that they need water, they need nutrients, they need things to support them.
Brett: There are also solar panels that allow the plant to photosynthesize and to move water through its system.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: And so it's this balancing act between
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Sometimes plants lose leaves because they can't afford to have them right now. doesn't mean the plant's dead.
Plant People: yeah
Brett: It's just like, I can't i can't keep that going. and And a lot of times, especially in the transition from... ah peak sunlight, peak time of year to like, well, the sun's not out that much anymore.
Alexis: Yeah.
Brett: So having these extra solar panels and keeping them going is not worth the squeeze. And so they're not, you know we, we like the things to look beautiful and stay green all the time and look healthy, unless it's going to be a beautiful autumn color and then fall off and we don't have to rake them up.
Brett: um And it's just not that they don't have that kind of internal sensibility about their aesthetic that we do, which is kind of cool.
Alexis: Yeah, I always go back to um when you take cuttings, it's sort of like as the similar aspect of it. When you take a cutting from a plant that you're gonna root,
Alexis: you take almost all the leaves off because those leaves lose water and the plant will try and feed those roots, but it, or those leaves, but it has no roots.
Plant People: Uh-huh.
Alexis: And we want it to focus on root production. So we leave just enough the amount of leaves to help it get enough nutrients and photosynthesize to produce the roots. But we take off all, and you know, you take off flowers and stuff like that.
Alexis: And it's kind of a similar concept of when you're bringing,
Brett: Yeah, totally.
Alexis: bringing in winter plants. But if you're starting, if you're starting from seed, you know, you're not going through that, but you are going to get a slow ah start. And I think the most important part of anything when you're starting it from seed, unless it's a microgreen, your light needs to be close to where the plant is.
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: Uh-huh.
Brett: why Why?
Alexis: yeah,
Brett: What happens if it's not Alexis?
Alexis: they will stretch looking for that sunlight and it is, it is not pretty.
Brett: yeah
Alexis: And those plants, you know, if they stretch too much, they, they don't recover from that. They're just like lanky and white and you're like, what's going on?
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis: And I can tell you like a couple inches is what you're looking for. The distance between the light and wherever the top of that plant is, whether it's, you know, half an inch tall plant or, you know, a 10 inch tall plant, the light really only needs to be a couple inches.
Alexis: Like no more than six inches from um that seedling or plant, whatever it is. So don't.
Brett: Yeah, it feels the correct distance feels a little absurd, especially when the plants are really young.
Alexis: Too close. Yeah.
Brett: Like that, because if you if you ever if you ever go and watch people who grow like they'll they'll grow stuff.
Alexis: Yeah.
Brett: um We haven't talked about this, but there are um these things called grow tents. ah And those are used in a variety.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Brett: Some people do actually use them. A lot of people use them for cannabis production. But You can also use them for vegetable production. You can use them to keep your house plants happy in the summertime. And it's literally like this, this tent thing.
Brett: And it's got a lot of them have shiny insides and there's a light inside and there's ah a, a fan that's circulating stuff.
Alexis: Reflective.
Brett: It keeps humidity high. There's lots of stuff on all over YouTube about how to use these. And one of the things that's striking about it is like, whoa, that light is crazy close to those plants because that little tiny light, it only, you know, a couple of inches is that, that level of proximity.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: Uh-huh.
Brett: it's crazy to think is the same are not even quite as strong or as effective as the sun 93 million miles away. It's like you got that that light, perfect the perfect distance and our species and all of the species that rely on the sun, which is pretty much everything.
Brett: We also happened to get the exact perfect distance away from the sun. That's pretty cool. some Sometimes are a little too close, namely during summertime when we sort of tilt back.
Alexis: Yeah.
Brett: I'm like, little close.
Alexis: All of us pale kids on the podcast are like, where we're feeling a little close to the sun right now. I'm going to need to cover up with some things.
Brett: But yeah, leggy, leggy transplants are so they're they're so sad because they they get leggy.
Alexis: Yeah.
Brett: They don't have no structure to support them. They fall over. They're touching the soil. They rot.
Alexis: Pitiful.
Brett: They die. It's just it's tough.
Plant People: Yeah, there's no coming back from that.
Alexis: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah, once they flop over.
Alexis: Yeah, there there really isn't. You just waste a time, start over. Like, super lucky.
Brett: And that...
Plant People: I have trouble with how temperatures do that too. The sunlight is the biggest factor, obviously, but at the office, I keep turning down when we grow transplants, you know, like for master gardener projects or community programs, I'll turn the temperature down at night for a lot of common vegetable transplants when it's time to start those.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: And somebody will invariably go through and turn that back up from 62 up to like, why is this so low in here?
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Plant People: If they're there at night and they'll turn it back up to 77. I'm like, you're making my transplants leggy. Because, you know, temperature and sunlight, yeah, it's like you've got to control those variables. And, this you know, that's kind of a universal sort of concept that we're talking about that Brett threw out there for just plant production in general, especially for young plants.
Alexis: Yeah. Luckily, like a lot of the time your houses will, like again, i love an old house. So maybe this is just me, but our house will fluctuate or we do turn turn a temperature down like at night when we go to bed.
Alexis: So it's sort of the set natural, but yeah, if you've got, um, if you're in an office situation that makes sense on a heat mat or something, um,
Plant People: Yeah. Thanks.
Plant People: Yeah, and it's the heat mats when you pull that off and you're done germinating and you enter the growing phase ah just after germination. That's when, you know, temperatures, you know, there's daytime temps and nighttime temps.
Plant People: And if you really get into it, as Brett was talking about, you'll start to pay more attention to variables like that whether you're growing you know annual herbs or just transplants in the winter time those are universal things that you pay attention to because certain plants like it much cooler at night than they do in the day some don't mind if the temperature is the same so yeah
Alexis: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Brett: Yeah. Yeah. And that, that's, that comes into play too, when you like are trying to start mixed flats of different things.
Plant People: oh yeah yeah
Brett: And it's like, these guys are really happy and the guys, their neighbors right next door are really not happy about the situation.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: i guess that's a way to hedge.
Alexis: Every year, yeah every year I think I can mix, yeah, I can mix flats and every year i go, why did I do that?
Brett: It's like, that's how you become a basil. That's how became a basil person. Yeah.
Plant People: It's just.
Alexis: I know better, so.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: It just, it just, when you get to a certain size or even just level of convenience, or maybe you just only have a certain amount of space, you just, you gotta kinda say, well, I guess I'll make everybody a little unhappy and hope that that's okay.
Alexis: Yeah.
Alexis: Yeah.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: It's working for us on earth so far are as humans.
Alexis: Yeah, that's fine.
Plant People: So far so good.
Brett: Um,
Plant People: And I've even noticed you mentioned fans, Brett, that, and I watched, ah you know, especially with like the commercial more commercial micro green producers or producers that produce on a scale to sell, you know, they fans there and that makes sense to me.
Plant People: Keep airflow. And I think of, you know, pockets of relatively high humidity you're trying to. eliminate But like, you know, growers of microgreens are like, well, yeah, it's that plus more than anything, it makes the stem strong and straight and stocky to have that little bit of movement.
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis: Yeah.
Plant People: So it's amazing that in, yeah, I mean, you you want them to move.
Alexis: Pet your plants.
Brett: Can you all talk about that? What is, what are you, what are you talking about?
Plant People: What are you talking about as far as just in moving?
Alexis: Oh, i yeah I always tell you.
Brett: Alexa said, pet your plants. And you said, what is this?
Plant People: Yeah, I want to hear what Alexis was going to say.
Brett: Is that something that this plant, plant people maybe don't, don't realize other people don't know about that.
Alexis: since it It's a...
Alexis: um So i always a fan is the same it's the same concept. And so a plant in nature, right, when it when it grows, it's outside and naturally experiencing wind movement or animal you know animals moving the branches or stems or whatever it is.
Plant People: Mm-hmm.
Alexis: So that plant senses that movement and will naturally lay down plants. cambium layers, which are the cells along the stem and the branches, to make that thicker so that it's not, you know, it's flexible, but it's not going to, you know, fall over. And so the same concept can is, you know, used in transplant production, you know, whether that's rooting cuttings or mostly seedlings, you'll see this, but Ray, a fan will it you know simulate that wind movement.
Alexis: So that just slightest little wiggle will beefing up that stem of your seedling.
Brett: Thank you.
Alexis: I like to pet my plants because I think it's fun. And I just literally run my hand over the top enough that I'm kind of bending that stem a little bit, even when they're real small in their first leaf stage.
Plant People: It's
Alexis: Um, But I just go through and give them a little gim a little pet. Hey, girls, how you doing? And and just go from there. But yeah, it'll it helps beef up those stems so that, you know, along with good light, proper heat and things like that, you get some nice strong stems that will support all that leaf growth you want.
Brett: and almost It makes me think of like a the way that we know that that resistance training, weight weight training you know builds strong bones, that it's like this, give it a little something, a little bit of micro stressor to you know bounce back from.
Plant People: good stuff
Plant People: Yeah. A little bit of load. Mm-hmm.
Brett: And then in turn, you know you have strength long-term. It's like the becoming funny after being bullied as a kid, you know, like all the, I don't know they were, it's, it's, it's, it's about resilience here.
Plant People: That's a muscle you have to build, Brett. Mm-hmm.
Alexis: I mean, don't bully people, but...
Brett: Yeah.
Alexis: yeah
Brett: Uh,
Alexis: ah
Plant People: We've all of a sudden we were talking, we went from ah herbs to universal plant truths, I feel like. And it's a, it's a good direction to go in it, especially in wintertime when we're thinking about things like indoor plants and what they need.
Plant People: And really that's what we're trying to do is mimic where they came from and how they developed and what they expect, you know, in their native environments. But yeah, it's so cool.
Brett: Yeah, I would say as a as a person who has started plants at a home scale. ah Inside in various different locations and formats and other things.
Brett: Until you are pretty experienced with doing it, have a little bit of a backup plan and don't go all in on it.
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Brett: So like what I what i mean by that is.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: Let's say you want to do some basil and inside this this winter. That's amazing. Get some seeds, get some media, try to start the stuff, see how it goes. But also see if you can figure out a place to maybe get access to an herb plant that's not a basil plant that's already started, it's already got some strength, etc.
Plant People: Yeah. Yeah.
Brett: Same way if, you know, we're just now in December, but here in a few months, we're going to be looking and doing our our seed pack math and saying, okay, I want to be able to plant in May in order to do that. i need to start my transplants.
Brett: Do that. Get some stuff. Don't spend hundreds of dollars on seed and supplies and everything else the first time if you haven't done it before. See if that's an enjoyable experience for you. See if your space works for it because starting seeds outside of an actual greenhouse environment is actually really pretty darn difficult.
Plant People: Yeah, I agree.
Brett: um I know grandma and grandpa did it in their basement with a 60 watt incandescent bulb.
Plant People: Yeah. i agree
Alexis: Mm-hmm.
Brett: And that that's because they had a lot of magic on their side that I just don't have. And I think some but other people don't have. ah So I would just say.
Alexis: And sometimes it's not fun to like place a bunch of little tiny seeds.
Brett: not
Alexis: Not everybody likes a tedious thing to do.
Brett: And then keeping them alive. And then like you, then you're like, Oh, it germinated.
Alexis: And then, yeah, remembering to water them.
Plant People: yeah
Brett: Great. Well now, now everything else sucks. Cause now they, that you can't, you have to water them.
Alexis: Yeah.
Brett: You can't water them too much. You have to water. Cause I, and I've started some stuff that's really, that's kind kind of finicky and complex.
Alexis: Yeah.
Brett: And I get that. I guess I'm not just starting simple stuff, but um I don't think you have to start everything from the very beginning of the seed process in order to have fun growing plants inside.
Alexis: Absolutely not.
Brett: And if you have that hang up, like I once did, let go of the ego, get over it and support a business that is starting the plants. That's look at it that way. um But I just think that like, if if all you've tried is seeds, do do something, ah yeah, try something else.
Plant People: think it's more fun. Yeah. Buy the plants.
Alexis: Learn to take cuttings.
Brett: if if it's If it's frustrating, because maybe I'm already speaking, already projecting my frustration trying to start some seeds this spring, but.
Plant People: and I love it, Brett, because when we started this conversation, my mind was not on really starting herbs from scratch. On the inside, it was more or less buying a start that's already in a four or five inch pot.
Alexis: I'm sorry.
Plant People: Yeah, it's a great that's a great point because I was not thinking of it starting.
Brett: That's called wisdom, Ray. um
Plant People: I mean, I've been there and I failed a lot. I should know better, but... I mean, it's just hard to, to you know, we even though you may know the technical things that need to happen, it's hard to mimic that inside of a home that's got its own. team mean know My wife would probably complain if I had it 62 degrees inside the home. in the You know, it's hard to mimic those things.
Alexis: I would not be pleased.
Plant People: Yeah, it's tough.
Alexis: ah
Plant People: So that's a great point. If you want to have success, sometimes it's just easier to buy a plant and that's past the seed starting and juvenile stage and just harvest it. Focus on harvesting that thing.
Brett: Well, because it's you when you when you try to start a seed, not to over-anthropomorphize, but when you try to start a seed, you're trying to convince this little a biological investment that a previous plant made that the conditions are good enough that you can come out and you can thrive and you can do well using just that little savings account that your mother plant gave you.
Plant People: Yeah.
Brett: It's much easier to convince a plant that's already grown, already invested some stuff, already has much more has a job, it's got sleeves, it's got some of the...
Alexis: It's a career path.
Brett: To keep living than it is to convince that little thing to get started outside of ideal conditions.
Plant People: It's got us driver's lessons.
Brett: Because you're you're not really going to ever create Mediterranean ideal conditions inside of a house from the fifties or earlier Lexington, Kentucky, you're just not going to do it.
Alexis: census
Brett: And, and I think that once you accept that into your heart, speaking to myself and let go of that ego and pride a little bit and just lean into, this is amazing that I'm growing this plant inside and I had, it smells nice and it's fun.
Brett: I don't know.
Alexis: The best plant people you know grow in multiple ways.
Brett: I'm not trying to get too philosophical about it, but definitely.
Alexis: So they're not all doing seed. They're not all doing cuttings. They're not all doing whatever. They're doing multiple things and they know their strengths and weaknesses. so
Plant People: And they bury their failures deep in the backyard.
Alexis: Yeah, yeah. That's why we grow so many plants. So when they die, it's just like, yeah, anyways. Yeah.
Plant People: I mean, you, as a gardener, I think you, it's gardeners are inquisitive souls, I think. And there's this probably, at least for me that I always want to try things on the fringe. So if I'm not failing, am I even trying?
Brett: Yeah.
Plant People: i don't know.
Brett: Remember you are compost and to compost you shall return, Ray.
Plant People: That's right. Carbon and nitrogen in the end.
Alexis: Hopefully.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: Well, perfect. We will wrap this up ah here today.
Plant People: We better.
Alexis: and yeah we might get too philosophical on our growing indoor herbs section. so let me just let me bring everybody in here for a second. But try it out.
Plant People: Bring it in.
Alexis: If you can't find any because it's the dead of winter and you can't have it find any plants, definitely try some seeds, but don't be too hard on yourself. um You know, or find a friend that is overwintering some of their herbs.
Alexis: Like, can I just like get a little bit of that?
Plant People: That's a mint.
Alexis: I just get a little bit, a little something, something.
Plant People: Yeah.
Alexis: um We hope you enjoy it. Get some freshness into your meals maybe, or your waters if you're into that kind of thing. um Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Hort Culture Podcast.
Alexis: You can also shoot us an email if you have questions. You're like, I think I want to buy this weird indoor growing kit. What are your all's thoughts on this? We can give you that ah non-biased, good extension support that way.
Alexis: So feel free to shoot us an email and that is in the show notes. But we thank you guys for being here with us today and we hope you'll join us next time. Have great one.
