Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Episode 31 - Part 1: What are the requirements of the Home Survey Standard? With Steve Lees
73 Plays1 year ago
In this episode of Survey Booker Sessions, host Matt Nally interviews Steve Lees from the RICS. They delve into various aspects of the surveying profession, focusing on both practical advice and broader trends in the industry.
Key Points:
Home Survey Standard Requirements: Steve discusses the home service standard requirements, their evolution, and the importance of adhering to these standards to ensure quality and consistency in survey reports.
- Navigating home service standard requirements
- Transitioning careers within the surveyor industry
- Using standard phrases effectively
- Importance of having thorough terms of engagement
- Insights on the upcoming review of home survey standards
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Host
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Survey Booker Sessions. Tune in to hear from people working in a range of industries and roles to provide you ideas that you can take away and use in your own business. I'm your host, Matt Nally, the founder and director of Survey Booker, which is the leading CRM and survey management system for survey
Guest Introduction: Steve Lees
00:00:14
Speaker
surveyors. On this week's episode, we have Steve Lees from the RRCS. So thank you for coming on today. hi Hi, Matt. Thanks very much. Yeah. So my official job title has seen a specialist for residential survey. So I've only recently joined RRCS at the end of March of this year. ah in a role and to focus on residential survey.
Career Journey and Personal Challenges
00:00:34
Speaker
My previous career was actually as a surveyor, so I qualified after getting a degree in building surveying in the late 90s, which seems a million miles away, um but then qualified um in 2001, became chartered and worked for some SME businesses in the residential sector before, working for two of the larger corporates, and whilst also supporting RICS on a few papers, including the CLADIN evaluation papers, Japanese knotweed, and yeah all the joys, and then ah officially been appointed to sort of lead the residential specialism and engaging with the sector. So thank you very much for the invite, and good to speak to your listeners.
00:01:17
Speaker
No,
Episode Overview: Surveying Standards and Future
00:01:18
Speaker
it's great to have you on. I suppose for anyone that's wondering what we're going to cover today, and we'll we'll we'll sort of touch again on sort your background in a second, but we'll be covering things like that the sort of home survey standard requirements and I suppose the future of residential and bits and pieces like that. But um I suppose before we get onto sort of topic one around the requirements of the home standard, what what made you want to move from sort of working as a surveyor into this side of things? It's a really good question. um Obviously, I had a passion for property and enjoyed ah looking at people's houses but also supporting others. So I had a little bit of a life event around 10 years ago where I was looking in lofts most of the day and out with a the surveying equipment and providing reports and unfortunately and I'm over it now but I end up getting um throat cancer so that called for a change in direction in my career and
00:02:11
Speaker
um Every cloud I moved into sort of the audit and technical support area and customer care. And I really enjoyed that aspect of the role. So that then allowed me to go through my previous employers to become head of technical. So I was head of technical for a large corporate before um I heard about the opportunity to sort of lead the RICS sector for residential survey. um And I thought I've built up 20 odd years of knowledge and experience and contacts. And I think time to give something back. So it's a little bit of a ah sideways move into a ah new and exciting role. There's a few challenges and a few opportunities for our membership. And I think it really helps that I've had that experience and um been out in the field and hopefully understand the challenges of our membership and and hopefully the general public as well.
00:03:00
Speaker
Oh, yeah, definitely. I think it'd be impossible to um work on what you're we're about to discuss if without that background to it. Because you need to have that in-depth understanding of how it works and different challenges and stuff. But um'm glad I'm glad that out of something like that, there's bit yeah you the is coming. You've got the ah something you're sort of loving doing now,
Challenges and Opportunities at RICS
00:03:18
Speaker
which is great. Yeah, absolutely. yeah I mean, the horror is just, you know, a very forward thinking and and there's a ah lot on the pad to be dealt with, which I'm sure we'll discuss. Definitely, definitely. So I suppose i suppose coming in into then the first thing we want to discuss around home standards and requirements.
Development of Home Survey Standards
00:03:33
Speaker
um I suppose the background as it came out originally in 2019, is that right? Yeah, that's right. So previous to that home surveys had lots of documentations around different types of ah residential home surveys that were all amalgamated together um from some research that was done in 2018, but officially ah the document was completed in 2019.
00:03:56
Speaker
but was effective in 2021. And you might think that's quite a big lead in time for any sort of document. But if we think back, the standard ah came into force around the period of COVID. So in effect, surveyors weren't actually looking in people's houses in that top during that time. So it made sense to make it effective in 2021 to allow businesses to change their business model to reflect the home survey standard. So um that's when it became effective. And the first thing that landed on my desk it when I joined RICS was to start the review to bring together version two. So that's
00:04:32
Speaker
That's what I'm in the midst of at the moment. Interesting. I think I remember that that um sort of ah extension to the deadline coming in. I think there was quite a few challenges at the time. You had a mix of yeah initially people might have been off on furlough because that you but the businesses couldn't operate and then suddenly it was the busiest time in the market had ever seen and there was no time to review new things. It was a a very interesting time, I think. Yeah, really interesting. I say actually being involved with the sector then, that there was a lot of nervousness around how the market recovered, as you quite rightly say. It was a little bit of a boom time. and ah with a new standard to introduce as well. how's it Has it gone, do you do you think, this this sort of rollout?
Feedback and Technology in Standards
00:05:09
Speaker
and we I suppose we can come on to what the requirements of it in a minute, in a minute but from from your you know initial review of things, has it been a successful rollout? I think with every standard that that's created into the market, there will be mixed views from the membership, um but I think it was important to have it ah all the documents in in one central place. I think
00:05:31
Speaker
the The key thing to take away, it created a minimum standard for all aspects of the service that surveyors provide. So it is a minimum standard. People can build and grow from that. So not having to complete a formulae home survey, as long as it it is to the standard, they can build the product that they want. People start to use different technologies such as drones and incorporating data. um as long as it meets the minimum standards, we're encouraging people to either use the RICS products, but equally they they can build their own as well. So ah general feedback as it's landed pretty well. Obviously you'll speak to different people who have a different view because there has been a ah change, particularly um introducing the levels of surveys, levels one, two and three, which is a change from the old pilots of a conditional report, a homeboy report or a building survey. So a little bit of bedding in, I would say, but
00:06:24
Speaker
ah spoke sorry I spoke to the property ombudsman and people from the dispute resolution service and and they feel it works really well rather than having lots of documents to have this one central bible for regulated firms and members to work to seems to have landed pretty well. ah Good. i think I think the key with anything though is it's the idea that anything's going to be a silver bullet and be perfect first time is unrealistic. Everything's about continuing continual improvement. I suppose we'll come on to what are the, you know, where's the review side of things coming on a bit later on. But um I suppose in terms of starting with the basics, should we cover what what are the requirements around?
Essentials of Home Survey Standards
00:07:02
Speaker
yeah of it Yeah, as I say, it should be seen as a framework. So it's a professional standard, which are
00:07:08
Speaker
members and regulated firms must adhere to. There's a series of musts within the report. um So a must means that ah a member or a regulated firm must adhere to this. So it creates a framework for regulated firms to work to. So for instance, creating a framework for what needs to go into a um terms of engagement, what the levels of surveys are, how we liaise with our client so before that area is pretty open but now we encourage our members or the standard us our members to speak to clients before they undertake we undertake the survey to make sure they're happy with the product and also to speak to them after the after the we've completed the inspection to make sure the client really fully understands the content of the report. It also sets out to our members that they must have knowledge of the locality and the type of property that they're undertaking so there's a lot more
00:08:06
Speaker
available information there. As you know, Matt, we can look online to look at properties before we buy. So if the surveyor in question doesn't feel they've got the knowledge or experience in that particular area, the standard portrays to them that they shouldn't undertake that survey if they haven't got their competence. So it's all about putting that really good framework around to make sure both the consumer and the Surveyor are safe in the work that they do. interesting just interesting we had ah um we've record we just recorded ah another episode around when you can do level threes and ah
00:08:38
Speaker
um interesting to get your take on this and i suppose is is it a case of um if if you can't, you you couldn't do the level three, if you couldn't do the level two,
Surveyor Competence and Experience
00:08:47
Speaker
i.e. your knowledge isn't, you're not competent for that type of property, but provided you were competent to do a level two on a property, you could do a level three. Yeah, I think it all comes down to continual professional development. um yeah At the moment, um the the home survey standard is self-assertation, so the person inspecting needs to have that knowledge and experience, which can only be gained by being mentored or being actually
00:09:12
Speaker
exposed to these properties and building up that knowledge base. um Level threes are the the the highest level of inspection that we do undertake. So but they do need specialist knowledge, they need to be able to provide the correct level of advice. So again, um we're all continually developing in our in our profession. So yeah, people undertaking um level threes must have that level of experience and knowledge which only can be get by learned experience. if you If you are um like a newer surveyor to the industry, yeah so you know you've you've maybe qualified, you you' you've been doing level twos for quite a while. How how do you determine confidently that you've reached the sort of, I suppose, level of experience and competency to to start doing level threes? Is there a way of sort of feeling confident with that transition process to know that you're not at risk of falling proud of the standards? Yeah, I think the the key is to work with your regulated firm. In in my experience,
00:10:12
Speaker
good regulated firms really put good controls around the work that that's been undertaken. At the end of the day, it will affect their PI if mistakes are made. So ah it's always important for um senior members within within the regulated firm to make sure they've got the right controls in place, checking check in the work, exposing the lesser qualified surveyor to these work companies and inspections are are absolutely great, reflecting on on the report before it's sent. um you know, in my own experience, I didn't do level three's for three or four years after I came out of university and got qualified through the APC, um did plenty of accompanied inspections and then started to do basic properties, then building up to more complex properties. And there are people that need to do further CPD for sort of historic properties as well or bespoke. um
00:11:06
Speaker
one-off run designs types. Yeah, true. There'd be some that I suppose are new to everyone that turns out to be a very bespoke type of property. One one thing you mentioned there, and I've seen this come up as to debate um a number of times before, is that pause for reflection before you send the report.
Report Reflection Periods
00:11:26
Speaker
is There isn't, I suppose, a specified length of time that you must wait. And and the reason I've seen this as a debate is, you know, um is it okay to offer same day turnaround or 24 hour turnaround on a report having done the inspection? Is there um is there guidance on or a sort of an idea of what counts as a suitable reflection period? It is interesting. it Is that covered off in the in the standard? So in Section 3 does actually state that the member or the regulated firm is producing accurate
00:11:53
Speaker
ah comprehensive record of the property at the time of inspection to allow reflection before the service is delivered. So um in my own experience, you go to the property with ah an absolute clear mind, you inspect the property and record what you've seen, and then you do need that period of reflection. Look at the the the property hole holistically, look at your site notes and photographs, make sure it's proportionate, the report's proportionate. So yes, service is in is important to clients, but this is probably one of the biggest purchases they're going to have in their life, so it's really important that the surveyors take a step back and reflect, and if that means delaying the and report going back to the clients, then so be it. We definitely encourage that period of reflection. Turnaround in terms of clients' demands in the in the corporate world, in terms of valuations, a slightly different matter, but
00:12:50
Speaker
you know These can be quite detailed reports, so we definitely encourage reflection. Interesting. Is there a sort of a minimum time that is considered? No, we don't stipulate. and and Again, no two properties are the same. There could be a um ah modern property with very few defects to a very large estate property that that that A takes longer to inspect. There's a lot more potential defects and things to reflect on and proofread the report, check-in site notes, et cetera. so Yeah, no one size
Terms of Engagement and Legalities
00:13:21
Speaker
fits all. So yeah, we don't put rich i put it we don't put a framework around that. No, that's a fair point. Yeah. Because if it's a very new property and and you genuinely can't find anything wrong, then it doesn't need days and days of reflection. Whereas a yeah really complicated historic building might need more time and an hour probably isn't okay. Yeah. yeah you know Again, coming back, everybody's got different levels of experience and knowledge around around these properties as well.
00:13:44
Speaker
Definitely. Okay, and that's really interesting. um One of the other things, and I don't know we've we sort of touched on this briefly before starting the call is terms of engagement. And it's it's an interesting one. I know the that the standard has, um you know, requirements listed in terms of what needs to be included in the, you know, terms of personalization and the documents and so on. ah We see quite different, I suppose, preferences as to how people want to handle them, whether it's, ah you know, a document that's got the I suppose the the fields that are are listed in the appendix of one of the um suggestions for the terms of engagement, you know, terms like name and address and quotes and special instructions, etc. Two other ones where it's, you know, here's a quick link to ah a web page and, you know, just confirm back in an email you agree. is um but What's the actual requirement, I suppose, around terms and and what what must be achieved at the end of it? Yeah, I think, just just to go back to the original point, terms and
00:14:41
Speaker
Terms of engagement is so important for both parties in this transaction. So again, as I referred to earlier, ensuring that people know that the product that that that they get in is suitable for their needs. um The standard, again, going back to the word must, the the standard in Appendix A ensures that certain elements are included in that. So whether whether that be the fee, the members, our members name, um also the format in which the report will be delivered. So again, ensuring and treating customers fairly to ensure that they absolutely know what product they're getting at the end of it and how much they're expected to pay for it, the cancellation rights, et cetera. um The method of delivery can vary. That can be a hard copy of that a wet signature or it can be a link. As long as um there's an evidence trail to keep both the regulated firm and our member safe and the consumer, that person in the in the general public safe, there's a documented record that can be an electric electronic or or a wet signature.
00:15:39
Speaker
It just needs to adhere to the terms to conditions and conditions. That's not just home survey standard. Any professional engagement, you know terms of engagement are a must. you know that that That could be a very important document in the future for for all parties. Yeah, definitely. Because I think, ah and this is what we've discussed with customers before, is if you if you have a link to a web page and you just say, just confirm you're happy with that, it doesn't provide you any physical... Well, I think there's two... I understand there's two problems with it. One, one it's not personalized, so it doesn't specify what the agreed fee is and you know customer name and job address, all that type of stuff.
00:16:13
Speaker
ah But equally, you've got no document at the end of that to prove what version of terms are agreed. You know, that web page might change over six to 15 years as your, um yeah as you know, as legislation changes and what you want to offer changes. And so when you if you do have to defend yourself, if you haven't got evidence of what version was actually um present at the time and what was written on there. Yeah, I think this is where the home survey standard in terms of in this centralized Bible is really important because it is specific in all of the elements that should be agreed and the subject property should be detailed, the client's name, the RICS member who's undertaking it, the fee. It's an individual terms of engagement with each individual transaction. So it should be bespoke to the property and the clients. But I think the the key point to take away is if regulated firms and members follow the the home survey standard appendix, they're they're going to be absolutely safe.
00:17:10
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's quite a clear document to be fair when I've reviewed it. It does stipulate what needs to be in there and you can copy and paste that really kind of thing. Yeah, absolutely. Tick off all the points that are covered. Member firms are going to be absolutely safe, but it is so crucial. It can play a part if things should go wrong in the future or clients, well, member firms can go back to clients as well to say, you know, it was clearly stated to you. And it's all about that transparency of service Good surveying firms have that transparent conversation, follow it up with the terms and conditions that that that are agreed. Definitely. My last um question on terms, you meant you mentioned about having either an electronic or a wet signature, so you the customer's signed. is is there Is there a time where it's acceptable not to have it signed in any way? um Or does that put you at risk potentially? Yeah, um um I'm not legally minded, but I would say no for absolute security,
00:18:06
Speaker
ah signature in either of those two formats would be the minimum requirements. It just shows that it's been acknowledged. So yeah, firms might need to take legal advice on that, but I think that but that's definitely the safest way from my perspective. Yeah, definitely. And we'll be clear. It's definitely none of this is legal advice, general getmon information to consider. thank you much ah Awesome. So um I suppose in terms of standard phrases then, that gets used a lot obviously in different apps to help save time when writing reports. And they've they've obviously got value in terms of helping to put content together. Are there times where standard phrases aren't
Standard Phrases in Survey Reports
00:18:47
Speaker
appropriate? And I know obviously they'd still have to be tailored. You have to adjust that that standard phrase to suit the property. Are there ever scenarios where that's not allowed? It's an interesting one. This has been in time and memorial around the use of standard phrases now.
00:19:01
Speaker
Staccato reporting, using standard phrases, can be called into question by the client to say, you know, it's just a repeated, I've had the same report from the same firm, you just get the same paragraphs are in there now. I am sitting on the fence here, I can see the value to both. So a well structured standard phrase is over key issues that are pertinent to different types of property around referring ah with regard to legal or describing the elements. It does keep keep the surveyor safe. um But again, properties are bespoke and the phrases need to be tailored to to meet that property. Some people generate reports completely from scratch on ah on a bespoke basis, which again, is absolutely fine. It's all about the resultant report. Does it reflect the property? Does it give clear advice to to the customer? In terms of clear advice, we've always got to assume that people
00:19:59
Speaker
buying the property haven't got a level of knowledge around buildings and building pathology, so it needs to react to write to be read really clearly. So I think the answer is there is a place for standard phraseology. I think everybody that actually said, oh, I don't use standard phrases probably has got a stock of keywords and key phrases that they actually do use. But again, it's this period of reflection. Look back, does the phrase that's been inserted in the report ah to actually reflect the property that's been seen? over-reliance on standard phrases, i.e. you start to put phrases in around cavity wall tie failure when there's no cavities, you know that that that just is is not acceptable. So period of reflection to the output phrases reflect the property that's been seen.
00:20:45
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's fair. Because ah ultimately what you don't want to do as a consumer is read something that feels cut and paste. yeah then Then you lose the value and then there's the frustration and you don't get the good reviews out out the back of it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So handle with care, I think would would would be my summar summary of that. Perfect. I think that ties in nicely to my next question, which is ah when can you and can't you recommend further inspection?
Recommendation for Further Inspections
00:21:10
Speaker
And the reason I feel like it ties in is you you obviously will see standard phrases for um you know recommended inspections and so on and and and so.
00:21:19
Speaker
but Where is it okay to say, um yeah yes, we're not we're not suitable to advise on this, you need to get a further inspection, and when is it too much just in there as a caveat to cover and it's not appropriate? Yeah, I think surveyors, due to CPD, they're training, should be going out and advising um purchases on all elements of the property. Now, one that gets raised quite often is is around services. ah we all And we'll hopefully talk about it shortly. what We're looking to review the home survey standard. But one of the criticisms of reports is that the customer gets a condition rating of three for people that use the condition rating system. ah And there's no apparent defect to that to the electrical installation. It's just the fact that it hasn't been tested recently. So I do get that frustration from the consumer around that that part. um Other areas of building pathology we'd expect our
00:22:18
Speaker
surveys to appraise the elements and provide commentary, particularly on Level 2s and Level 3s, where we're going to further advice in detail and only recommend special advice when absolutely necessary. So, structural issues where clear diagnosis can't be made on site may require a structural engineer to provide that. We're also looking at currently at the moment around the diagnosis of and we bought out working with other joint positioning statements. So we're encouraging our members now to look at the building. If there's a broken down pipe, for instance, and a wall hasn't been pointed recently in this dump in that area, then we're doing the pathology rather than just passing it on to a timber and damp specialist for them to make a call. We're continually encouraging our members to assess and provide reasonable advice
00:23:14
Speaker
But yeah, services is one that's that's on my radar and I think that's probably common between our membership as well and the people I've spoken to in my limited time here said, you know, we probably need to review some of the areas too and provide additional support and training to our members to make sure they're providing a one-stop shop rather than a list of recommended onward reports. Yeah, because it's finally a balance. because I suppose if you're if you've just paid a few hundred pounds for a report and then it's sort of saying for a lot of areas, speak to someone else, then it's ultimately going to lead to frustration. Yeah, it can undermine the value of the of of the report and we need to keep make sure that surveys are are relevant. yeah
00:23:51
Speaker
Definitely. this This next question actually might fall under sort of the review that we're going to come on to. Could you just mention obviously about the services? There's one that does you right does crop up a few times and you see, for example, electrics or gas covered as a three because it's yeah wait we i don't we haven't seen a certificate to say it's tested or we can't verify that the one that's the sticker that's on there is yeah ah genuine and all that type of stuff. is um What's the right type of advice to put there? Is it a three or do you just put not inspected because it's you know we're not specialists? yeah i mean we In the standard, we we allow firms to to create their own rating systems if needed. and If the element is is visual, they should be making a call there. Now, for instance, the EIC's recommendation, so that that's in the world of electrical, recommends that before purchase, everybody should have
00:24:45
Speaker
an electrical report undertaken. And again, the provenance of the sticker up on on the consumer unit, et cetera. So most firms will veer towards a condition that rating three for for most of the elements. ah There are surveys out there at the qualified electricians as well, or it can offer that service within the package, which sort of home survey standard allows for people to go into specialist areas. It's one area that I would like to to to really get under the bonnet of it in in the review and make sure we're providing practical advice. and My own view, again, is there a position to say we shouldn't rate the services? We can rate everything else around the property, but potentially, do we say it doesn't carry a rated system, but here are are here are our observations, and this is the recommended advice from GasSafe or NIC EIC.
00:25:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think ah but my my view is probably that that that might be a sensible route going forward, just because you you do see a lot of comments where, um you know, consumers misunderstand and they think that the house has been condemned because, ah you know, it actually has now got a three and they need to rewire. And actually, it's not the case. It's just saying, yeah, I think, they yeah, quite clear. I'm quite visual that when you look at the ratings, you're automatically attracted to the threes and it's in red. And, you know, what what what do we need to do here? But I think, yeah, it's it's definitely going to perform part of the review. so It's on my pad already. but Interesting. I think there was one other question I was going to ask, but before before I do that, Shall we actually cover the review and and yeah so what's what's prompted the review of the standard, I guess, and and what we're looking what you're looking to, I suppose, achieve from it and and where we're looking to get
Reviewing Home Survey Standards
00:26:26
Speaker
to. Yeah, it it time march is on. So it's it's three years in the making. It's quite a sea change at the time. So I think it's a really good opportunity now for
00:26:36
Speaker
for us to lift upon it and also ask our members of you. So I've got a little bit of a three-pronged attack in terms of we are sending out a membership questionnaire. So everybody who's our assistant professional in the residential sector will get a questionnaire. And I'd really urge members to complete that. It doesn't have to be one person from a regulated firm. It can be all of our membership. And we look at the whole survey ah incrementally, so where does it work? um A bit like Goldilocks analogy, does it go too far? Is it not prescriptive enough? Is it just right? um and Then we we go through um butre we're going to go through the whole um current standard and then build the review off the back of what our members say. ah But in parallel, we're also going out to people that have recently purchased. so We're using an external company to
00:27:36
Speaker
provide feedback from a purchaser, they might say, using your example, I found the services confusing. I really wanted to know more about schools in the area or why wasn't this particular area covered? I'm trying to struggling to find examples. But from that and our ah member question, so we've got the member questionnaire, we've got the consumer questionnaire, but we're I'm also looking at our own internal data. and speaking to other associated bodies as well. And from that, we'll have a clear picture of what works well. Where do we need to add more detail? Where do we need to provide more clarity? Now, I don't want to preempt the results of that. It could be everything's fine. Let's keep it as it is. It might be, yeah, we'veve we've got a bit of an issue here because in the last three years, the use of drone technology has risen and there's no no section around using drone technology, you know, just using that as a particular example. We might want to look at other areas such as snagging reports for for new build properties or compliance reports for new build properties. Do we need to to to bolster areas around the inspection of ah historic buildings? Example, do we need to make the levels a little bit clearer? How do we look at non-traditional properties? So there's there's a whole range, but I don't want to preempt what the new the new standard will look like. We really have got um to reflect on um member and general public sentiment around the standards it stands at the moment. I definitely don't want to um and put the thoughts in people's minds and then they don't come up with other other things. I agree i mean membership have got some really good ideas. I've spoken to people. yeah so You can have people with different end of the spectrum, people saying we shouldn't touch services at all, people saying we should upskill to look at services or or that middle ground of providing advice but signposting as to why
00:29:30
Speaker
we haven't provided a condition rating or we've provided a particular condition rating. Yeah, I think it'd be really interesting to see the results. yeah from both sides. Obviously, there's the surveyor side where this is what we find challenging to maybe understand in certain areas. yeah And then from the consumer side, it's how do we actually receive the product, which you don't always get feedback on. yeah um is in you know Someone might say that they're generally overall happy, but not necessarily specify yeah the services or whatever it whatever it was. So that would be helpful in terms of addressing um just how people generally approach things as well. yeah um Is there a timeframe on the review? yeah when you're looking so So we're looking to get the questionnaires
00:30:07
Speaker
out to membership ah ah and to general public and conclude that by the end of July. um And the current date for publication um for the completed project at the end of quarter one, 2025. Now, depending on how big the review needs to be after the questionnaire, that may may get pushed back. ah But we will go through the usual protocols of public consultation. And we're pulling together an expert group as well, which will involve ah corporate firms, SME firms, especially in particular areas around green and retrofit, academics, legal, the usual sort of process for our ICS development of a standard. So yeah, really looking forward to getting stuck into that, to be honest, Matt. Awesome. i think I think that's probably a nice place to end topic one, and we'll we'll move into um yeah looking at the future of residential in a moment. but So join us for topic two on there. But certainly I'd say if you've if you've got feedback about the standard, whether it's just
00:31:04
Speaker
you love it or there's certain bits you want to change, it it's definitely worth providing that feedback or, you know, anything you do want addressed, it can't be. Yeah, yeah. Look, I'd say to members that are listening, look out for the questionnaire, it's your opportunity to have your your voice. We've kept it to sort of a reasonable amount of questions and there's multiple choice, but there's also white space to to put it a view in there. We're looking for people to be constructive and and tell us what works and um um what doesn't work. So yeah, you should be learning in people's inboxes immediately. Definitely. Well, that's a nice point to end on is, ah yeah, outline the problem, but also the solution that you think should go with it. And that that will help drive the change. Absolutely.