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Episode 33 - Part 3: How to get the most out of the transformation process with Gavin O'Neill
54 Plays1 year ago
In part 3 with Gavin O'Neill, we discuss all the key factors to help you achieve a successful digital transformation process.
- Importance of Demos: Discussed the crucial role of demos in the digital transformation journey and how they have evolved.
- Change Management: Addressed the necessity of handling change effectively when implementing new solutions.
- Implementation Strategies: Highlighted the significance of setting up systems correctly from the start to reap long-term benefits.
- Vendor Collaboration: Emphasised treating vendors as collaborative partners rather than just suppliers for successful implementation.
- Ongoing Engagement: Stressed the importance of continuous engagement with software and vendors to utilise new features and updates, ensuring continual business improvement.
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Transcript
Choosing the Right Supplier for Digital Transformation
00:00:00
Speaker
For the final part of this episode with Gavin from GoReport, we're looking at how to have a successful implementation process. So we've covered some really interesting points around when to consider digital and how to choose a supplier. um I think think the success of the transformation process, as long as you choose the right supplier from the last topic, I suppose, is how well you implement the chosen solution and and monitor its ongoing success and and changes you make. um I suppose the the first step to success in understanding sort of yeah how the product will be able to work for you is, um I suppose, the demo process. you know you need to You need to go through that properly and and you know understand what what you're trying to get out of it and and and and help the the supplier, I suppose, the demo in the right way. But I suppose, what are your thoughts around but the demo step and how to get the most out of it to to sort of support with the implementation a bit later?
Evolving Sales Methods and Buyer Information Access
00:00:56
Speaker
Yes. i think um
00:00:59
Speaker
You know, the demo's and incredibly important, but I think that and it's its position in the journey has has probably changed from from times gone by where the demo was probably the first real understanding you've got, and you know, sort of technology first and then think about your problems kind of thing. m And, you know, back when um when, as I said before, the sales rep was that your main point of contact, dropping brochures off and having a meeting. and i think really, there's been quite a change in how buyers purchase software now in ah in a B2B environment in comparison to the the days when the salesperson was your only link to the content of of what you were buying. and you know Now, ah buyers, including myself, you know I'm a buyer of software as well as ah a seller of software for our own business. um you know We've accessed a a vast array of information sources and we've consumed an awful lot of information before you get a chance to
00:01:55
Speaker
speak to a company at all um or or before you choose to speak to a company and um at all. and and you know that Those information sources might be from the information you've put out into the world. and They might be referrals from other users. They might be misconceptions from other users. They might be ah misconceptions of who they thought they were using somewhere else at some point in time, which has happened before. and But the most important thing is by the time it gets to the demo, they they will have consumed the the buyer will have consumed a lot of contents, but they won't have made a decision to invest as yet. and That's why the demo is incredibly important and why I think it's important to prepare for a demo. and you know I do a lot of preparation for and the demos that I accept as someone trying to sell me software. I don't just go of you know sort of turn up and say, tell me everything that I need to know. and it is a caseos of It's a two-way demonstration.
00:02:51
Speaker
a demonstration and and it's important to help you visualize the benefits, but also as a catalyst to you know exchange information and think wider about the problems that you
Preparing Effective Demos and Communication
00:03:04
Speaker
have. you know It's a great opportunity to to do that. So whether it's the buyer discussing their problems to the vendor, sharing their experience of other clients that they've worked with and or that may be further along the journey, these are great resources of information. and you know Maybe not by naming names, but certainly regular occurrences can be can be talked about.
00:03:25
Speaker
and so When I go into a demonstration as a buyer, I'll have a checklist of the things that I want to make sure are covered. you know ah you know the The demos for me as a buyer, right and it's not for the software company. um and you know i will want to know that my and ah you know I want to to explain my main challenges um and and convey you know an um an idea of priority and importance to me as the buyer. I want to make sure I'm showing exactly how the software supports or solves those challenges. i'm not you know i'm not I want my salesperson to be able to go off script to my problems, not and not necessarily and what they want to show me. and So your you know your salesperson should be um flexible, but you should also respect that they have a story to tell and maybe they have the answer. So you want that to be a very um ah comfortable exchange and discussion that you're having.
00:04:23
Speaker
and I'll also be really open about the concerns I'll have. i'll you know I will say, um I'm not sure your product meets my challenge in this area. and um you know i I do that. I've always done that. and i would i Our sales ah team love that um ah because it really frames what they have to do next effectively. It frames how they need to respond to that. That might be that they go, you know Actually, there are other people in our business that might have a better input on that. Let me go find let let me go and and involve them in this. Let me get the information you need or let me get that conversation that they that you need. And and you know I think if we just really distill it down to and surveyors, I think and selling solutions to surveyors, I think engineers like myself and surveyors have a very similar curious mindset effectively. And and you know I always approach my engagement with so software vendors or consultants
00:05:17
Speaker
in a much more curious and inquisitive fashion than I was maybe guided to when I was early in my career. and you know Because I think that curiosity and asking questions is often reciprocated and becomes, like I said, the greatest source of free learning that you can have on not just ah what opportunities are there to improve um with regard to the software, but also where the industry is. you know We see our guys see more surveying activity and in in a month than a lot of our clients do in a couple of years, just simply because you know the vast majority, you know the vast number of clients that we have. and If you can approach a demo with that concept of a little bit of work, being open, being transparent, asking ah um you know being honest about where you feel you are in the process. you know i'm you know We love it. I'm not convinced. Put your best foot forward. Here's where I think it's not right for me.
00:06:13
Speaker
is a good start point for a sales demonstration and discussion of those challenges, because at least by the end of that hour, you'll be in a better place than you were when you when you started. I 100% agree with that. if If you go into the demo without outlining the problem you're trying to solve, um either because you haven't worked that out yet, or because you're trying to be sort of coy about it for some reason, um probably more likely the first option. um It's very hard for someone to give you a demo that's going to show you what you might want to see. They can can give you a very generic overview. These are the types of things it can do. um But then you'll end up with the thing of not being convinced. Yeah. um
00:06:53
Speaker
And then if you don't raise while you're not convinced, then like someone can't say, actually, no, we can't do that. We're not the right solution for you. Or, oh, actually, we can do that. I just didn't show you it because I wasn't aware that that's what you wanted. Or, um yeah, there's there's this setting I could show you. So, yeah, the more open you are, I think the more you can get out of it. I think the other thing I'd say um is definitely bring the right people in. So it's it's easy to potentially at yeah have a board level or director level have that team members in that know what they want to achieve in terms of high level objectives. But it's also important to have some people in there from an operations perspective, the people that might be using it day to day to understand what the operational challenges are. So can they can they ask the questions that you might not know about ah of how it actually needs to be used day to day? And so if that question then gets asked, you can see yes or no, it does do what we need to do.
00:07:44
Speaker
um and potentially say is having to have two, three, four, five, trying to repeat demos to try and find out the information. um i think i think that yeah I completely agree with you. Know your problem see so you can understand how to evaluate the product. Yeah. i mean i think yeah it's it's a you know and and you know For the the avoidance of any diet, it's not that you have to come to a demo with everything nailed down, eyes dotted and teeth crossed. It's your starter point. right It's your it's your it's your your opening hypothesis. and Absolutely bringing in people, you know particularly with larger scale um ah larger scale environments, I think. the The key thing there is that's where preparation is absolutely crucial because and it's really unfair to bring somebody into an environment where they've maybe never bought software before and being put in a place where a solution is being considered. And there's no frame of reference of where you're trying to get to as as a journey. So I've always noticed that um in you know it's something that I've always done
00:08:43
Speaker
and implementation projects on the other side is to have and several meetings beforehand to say, look, this is what we're trying to get to as a business. This is where the challenges are that we think we're going to meet. And here is ah a short list of or a long list even of potential ways to go about solving this problem. And we're going to now start working through those problems. Oftentimes, you'll and particularly with larger scale implementations, i've you know I've been in that environment where There's always somebody senior in the room and I hope I've never done this and apologies to anyone I ever have is, ah you know, you can see the arms getting folded in the meeting and it's impress me kind of thing, um you know, and convince me that I should change what I'm doing. And I and i think that that is, that misses the entire point about what vendors like ourselves are about. We're here to meet your challenge. You need to, we need to understand what your challenge is.
00:09:36
Speaker
But we also know that we're dealing with lots of other companies like yours that do the same thing as you, and we know how we're meeting those challenges for those businesses. So if you approach it in that sort of closed way, and you're shutting yourself off from understanding what your competitors might be doing, um what other people in other regions, areas, service lines, or stuff that you could borrow, learnings, and accelerate your own journey. And that's the key thing here is everybody wants to accelerate their journey. and You don't want to spend two years doing something you could do in two months if you just speak to the right um the right the right people kind of thing. So um I do think that that's a good, healthy conversation. And also, you know ah like I said, coming in and just saying, um you know i you know if you've made the first step to get in touch with us and you your first opening gambit is, I genuinely don't know if this is for me, but this is who I am and what I do.
00:10:31
Speaker
can you tell me why I should be considering it? Again, great start point. You've given us your time. You've given us a start point so we know where we're moving from and we can work it from there. um that but Very few people are willing to do that obviously because it exposes them to you know ah maybe feeling that they're vulnerable, that they don't know as much as they should. That's that's not there that's not your problem as a ah buyer. That's our our challenge as a seller to bring you along that journey. so give us your time, make that first call, make that first connection, and we can take you from there to wherever you go. Equally, if you're coming in and go, look, done this many times before, I know what my shortlist is, I know what I'm looking for specifically, great, we've got a frame of reference, we can work from that point down and not waste.
00:11:16
Speaker
time going back over things you already know. Yeah, definitely. definitely okay so Let's say we've had a successful demo um and we we liked
Planning and Accepting Change in Implementation
00:11:25
Speaker
it. We want to go ahead with multiple demos, whatever it was, but we we want to go ahead. I suppose the the key next step is it's really change management and and and how do you implement the new solution. and um For me, yeah I think you have to realize change is going to happen yeah know in terms of once you implement that solution, you're going to do things slightly differently. um And so you do need to invest a bit of time at that point to you know tailor and personalize your settings and and learn how the product works. And I think where I often see
00:11:56
Speaker
but often see mistakes, but where you can see mistakes is where someone just wants to go live and and um and and and not not put that time in upfront, then yeah I find you'll find it takes a lot longer to realise the benefits from that product because you're you haven't set it up in in the most optimal way for you. It's like buying a car. know you If you don't invest time in driving lessons, um you're better off walking. yeah where Everybody else is better off walking. they're better You're walking, yes. yeah Absolutely. so you That car's not going to go anywhere, um so you might as well all get out. so i think but but I think on the flip side, is going back to your analysis by paralysis point, you you you can't spend forever trying to perfect it and before going live, that you have to find a balance and set a plan date, I think, on
00:12:42
Speaker
on getting live and then obviously there'll be things that once once you have it in the real world, you'll you'll make slight tweaks and and changes, but but not being not being a fear of having to have the perfect time to get live. Yeah, yeah for sure for sure. I think i think we're we're fortunate in both our solutions and our target client is that our solutions are actually really relatively quick. you know the time to value of our solutions is extraordinarily quick for ah for a digital transformation process. And that's that's a fortunate and of of a fortunate element of being a you know a really good niche player that plays well with the other um ah ah software tools that you might use in your in your workflow. and So and from that aspect, and there shouldn't be a problem with long elongated change management processes for our solution. But I think some of the key points there that you make um
00:13:40
Speaker
are are very important and to ensure that it is successful. And I think point number one is understanding the vast majority of people, if you're not in the software world, don't understand the difference between writing software and configuration. So and when the word bespoke is often misused kind of thing. So and not that is almost like
Software Configuration vs. Writing Custom Software
00:14:02
Speaker
um a learned mythology that's come from from the past where You have to get everything perfect before you give it to these very expensive software developers who then will develop a solution. And if it's wrong, then you know what the failure point is huge. And we still see that today. I mean, you know um ah you only have to look at the sort of the horizon post office issues of where IT systems can have just a cataclysmic effect on people's lives and livelihoods um you know of of getting it wrong.
00:14:30
Speaker
thoughts It's very different that as ah as a mindset as opposed to what we do is we're not writing software for our clients. We're configuring to meet their challenges effectively. And so that configuration or change to configuration is it's down at a much more granular level. It's a case of, okay, tell us what you need right now to do what you need to do. Let's do that and let's make sure that's finished. And then you use it. And then you have a feedback loop that if you want to evolve, in six months time, a year's time or whatever, the evolution is is straightforward. And that's a common thing to both our our our tools effectively. And so you shouldn't have any fear as long as you've got your right start point thought about, and more importantly, your vendor has got an implementation team that are engaged with you to do that. Then again, you should be going forward with you know very progressively and what I tend to find
00:15:27
Speaker
there's ah There is, whilst we have the advantage of being a kind of a niche play with a fast time to value, the the flip side of that is our users are tend to be fast, overwhelming majority fee earners. They're very busy people doing the work effectively. like And so your time to value is impacted on their by their availability, and not just their availability to meet you to get to a decision, but their a ability ability to think on the problem or that the options that they have. So we we always try and advocate um and and try and get things back on track by going, look, just zero in on the thing. You must be doing this today, right? So even if you if you're getting paid for a particular thing today, let's use that as the start point and then evolve it. So obviously GoReport as a survey production, digital data collection and production piece. It's amazing how many clients when they come to us and we say, okay, give us the last three things that you've done.
00:16:23
Speaker
We'll use that as the start point. And they immediately want to go off and ah converse with other people in their business to come up with the perfect solution because the perfect solution is what they want to start with. And my view is you're just delaying your benefits. Just go with what you have and then we'll help you evolve it as time goes on. And it's and it's not a problem to do that and and ah in our solution. So I think implementation wise, set yourself a target. whole agree it with your software vendor, don't let it drift because drift is the death. you know i I've worked on transformation projects that were were outlined just to last for 18 months and three years in, you can imagine how much personnel change and and ah enthusiasm and energy has waned by that point. We're not in that boat in this solution that we're selling. you know We should be talking a matter of 68 weeks.
00:17:19
Speaker
as a maximum kind of thing for for what we do. And that's at the very, you know, that's at the complex end to get you going and get you started and get you getting a return on your your investment. And so that's, you know, being clear about that, agreeing that with your vendor and then really sticking to it from both sides is is really important. Yeah, that was a really key point is have that date so you don't lose the motivation because the excitement comes from saying, yes, we're going to we're going to implement a change. The reality of the difficult part is the point between that decision and life because because there is. Yeah.
Collaborative Implementation and Team Support
00:17:54
Speaker
And you've got to remember there is there is work to do. Going back to the car example, you know, you buy the car, but you still have to put the seat in the right place and choose what temperature it is. So you're not too hot or too cold or whatever, whatever it is.
00:18:07
Speaker
um or get the the tires to the right pressure for how many people are in there, whatever that is, um there's a bit of work to do and then you can enjoy it. um yeah The same with the product, you have you have to put the legwork in and realize that the legwork you're doing now, you don't really tend to repeat again. So for us, it's putting all your different settings in place around the emails or locations covered, stuff like that. That's the stuff that you you tweak over time, but you don't have to do huge grunt work. Yeah, you' might you'll manage over over time, but you're not You're not making a change over time for some of those those basic things. And I think it comes back to our you know when we started the conversation about discuss you know discussing what is transformation, what is digital transformation, and it's the difference between, and you know like I said, it for me, it's a catalyst to look at how you do business. And you know you can't you can't do business better if you don't put any thought or or time into it. So any project needs to come with a consideration. It's going to involve some of my time.
00:19:06
Speaker
and And it's important to recognize what that time is. Now, again, fortunately for both of our solutions, that time is actually relatively speaking, not a massive amount of time, but it should be focused, dedicated time in in the in the early instance. you know One good 60 minute section is worth four or five days of emails bouncing back and forward and making the time to do that and and um moving forward in a collaborative way. is is really important. And we're we always face that challenge because you know we're we're all guilty of it in in our own working lives, pinging that email late at night or whatever you do because you're in the middle to go into something else when actually a conversation would be better. So we're always trying to make sure we don't fall into the trap of relying on email when you know that good 20 minutes or that good 30 minutes moves the whole project on on quicker. and But like I said, from you know from from your side,
00:20:04
Speaker
you have more process to cover from our side, we're talking about the the deliverable of a service line. And therefore, and like I said, before you come to us, you will have been doing getting paid for something that already exists. So yes, tweak, but don't tweak at the expense of gaining value from the benefits of using digital for what you already do and would always be my advice. Yeah, I completely agree. I think the The only other point I'd make um to to to that is if you are struggling to do something or yeah you'll get you're getting frustrated because you want to crack on with getting live and and you not having to go through the settings, do speak to your vendor. che yeah don't Don't just be frustrated internally because it often often we find the actual um query that there is, it's just a small settings configuration change, takes two seconds, a few minutes. um But if you don't voice that, that can't be
00:20:58
Speaker
ah resolve for you and you you don't get what you want out of it. It's just a simple thing about how you're notified about something. Yeah. There is ah there is a there is a nuance there as well though, isn't there? that and one One of the things that comes I think with it with experience ah of being on the side of implementing, not you know buying, not just just selling, is and it's not always what people say that is the problem. um and you know Somebody saying, oh how do I change this setting is is knowing enough about your product and your context. And more importantly, the challenge that that particular client is having that they're trying to solve, it might invoke you saying, well, actually, and that setting is probably not what your what your issue is. We need to think about this or that, or are you struggling with this as well as that? In which case, can we help you do that? and I think that's the
00:21:52
Speaker
The important thing is to to understand where any frustrations come from, answer questions quickly, yes. and But it all starts with, with like I said, treating your vendor as a collaborative partner. you know We are a supplier in legal terms, but but software is a collaborative experience to get the to get the best answer, is ah ah to give it the best result, is a collaborative experience. And it's where you know we you know we invest. Certainly at Go Report, we invest heavily on our customer care team, on our operations team. You know, very, very high caliber individuals who are doing a tremendous amount of of work with surveyors every day. um The product itself, you know, the some of the questions about the baseline of the product. Yes, the information could be there. We make it online, we make it available, and um and you could find it yourself.
00:22:42
Speaker
But if you've needed to ask us the question, we'll we'll answer the question. But well we see it as a touch point. And we want to make sure that the question is wrapped up in not another problem that you haven't been able to articulate, ah basically. so So being very open, being responsive, and then trying to work the time into your diary. you know Like I said, and if you're back to your point about why and why when you're really successful, people often don't do transformations. You're too busy delivering work. You can't make the time. you know Why turn down that? that piece of work to think about how to do my business better. We know it's difficult. there's no There's no easy answer to that other than if if you believe there is an opportunity to to do it better, that's going to pay off many times more than just that one occasion where you didn't give it the time. and that's that's the That's the constant challenge. But definitely your vendor, we've been a long running customer care program. We do a lot of proactive reach out. and We know 90 percent of our reach outs will go unanswered.
00:23:41
Speaker
you know and hey we you know You're 60 days in, you're 90 days in. We know that, so we're not gonna get offended at that, but we are tracking it because we know the longer it goes before you talk to us, the less likely you are to contact us when you've got a problem. So we'll we'll keep banging on the door um and ah know that it's you know we'll always be there to answer if you um if as soon as you have ah have an issue. Yeah, it's it's an interesting one. Possibly something we'll touch on and again and in a couple of minutes when we look at sort of ongoing success with the product, because I'd agree with that point. Often those touch points ah um that don't necessarily always get a response. I think one of the other important things, and it comes back to that motivation once you're live, is when when you've made a decision to go with something, it's like going to the gym, you have to get into a routine. um the The first time you go, the second time you go, okay, but then you start to quite easily go,
00:24:32
Speaker
ah can't be bothered. And speak for yourself, man.
00:24:37
Speaker
I definitely have. But I think it's very easy, like with yeah with the gym, it's very easy to slip out of that and and not get into the routine of of of going and and and and and continuing with that process. And it's similar with software, um not software, but just change generally. And, and, and you have to, you have to embed that, that new process and that change and and stick to it. and And it's important, particularly with team members, if you have implemented a new process that you support team members with that change, but also you do have to be clear that that's, this is the root forward. This is what we're doing. We do need to adopt it, not just, we'll just default to old processes. Cause it's yeah, simpler right now. Cause then you'll never have the success and you'll just be back where you were, um, having wasted a bit of time, but losing all the benefits in the meantime.
00:25:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I think the, yeah, I mean, it's, you, then it comes down to management and management style as well. In terms of, I think what you do is you get the, for me anyway, with the successful projects that I've been involved in, it's about having all of the main key milestone points nailed down. So what, why, why were you doing it in the first instance? You know, what was the challenge we were solving? That feedback loop, did we solve that challenge with the choices that we made? And then the touch point back is, is that our new baseline for the business? Because any subsequent change should build on what you've done before. It shouldn't have to go back over old ground because something something wasn't managed or seen through. So that's when you start getting into reporting, people management, that kind of thing. You know, if you've got conscientious objectors, again, it's it's why. and and and And evaluating is
00:26:23
Speaker
Is the decision not to follow how the business wants you to run something that's detrimental to the business or do they have a valid point that we need to tweak kind of thing? um And I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't make any more statement other than that because unless you know what the context is, you don't know what your action point is going to be. But fundamentally, from a leadership point of view, if we have invested in making the business better, we believe in what it is and the evidence there. is that we're doing it, then yes, everybody should be buying in to that as ah as a business, because that's now our new normal. um And um because we've got a regular um standing agenda item of how to do better, and again, how to do better for our clients, ah for our sales, clients front and center, how do we do better, then that new normal has to be our starting off point for the more advanced things that we do. I've talked about, presented at a number of RICS events over the last 12, 18 months,
00:27:18
Speaker
um I've kind of presented that kind of pyramid of adoption effectively where your baseline keeps moving up and there are there aren't as many people at the top of the of the of the pyramid um that that are real competitors to you. If you keep moving up with your digital adoption and doing things the right way, you start to find that you're you're offering a standout in comparison to to others. And if you don't have that feedback loop of whether your adoption was success, you stay down at the base of the pyramid. And that's a terrible shame because you've done all the work. So why not reap the rewards?
Keeping Updated with New Features and Continuing Education
00:27:50
Speaker
Definitely. I think I suppose then to to round this ah and sort of topic off and I suppose the episode as a whole, um ah I think the final point really is then is we sort of part on this anyways, the ongoing um success of of implementing ah a change or a product. For me, I think one of the um potential ways to do that is
00:28:12
Speaker
is to keep engaged with the product you're using. And by that, I mean, and I get this is difficult because we're busy and we've got emails coming in and we sort of see a newsletter and we go, it's not that important, we'll ignore it. But in those newsletters can be really important information about what new features have come out, what changes are coming. And they're all things that can help you to, yeah, again, if we're looking at the sort of what's the new challenge we've got, because there will always be, it's a process of continual improvement, isn't it ultimately? that they're they're things that if you engage with them will help you continue to get more and more value and more ah more and more success out of your ah solution and your business. So I think one of the key things, and we and we we do see these can be ignored quite easily, the other the the pieces about but what's coming, how can you engage better? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think and think it is important to remember that our you know our clients only job is to make sure we work hard for our money.
00:29:09
Speaker
Basically, that's that's that's their job, right? So it's not their job to tell us how to do our business or how to do it ah do it better. Or you know it's not even really their their job to to articulate the the solution to the problem that they've they've got. It is about them articulating their ongoing challenges. But what is the responsibility of the client? Well, you should know how the software is being used in your business. You should know how all of your software is being used. you know um Because every year when you're paying that bill and or whatever frequency that you're paying, ah you should be making sure that you're still getting value for money, but that's just that's just standard and it should be. and we ah Obviously, a lot of um ah our our clients will will have regular catch-ups with them. we We can see what they're using in the system and what they're not. so and you know if they're not If they're not using it a lot, will'll be you know why not? you know what's What's the issue? Transolve it. but you have to you know
00:30:05
Speaker
for us to do anything at that point that there has to be an engagement, even if it's an honest engagement, you know, even as an engagement, um I'm struggling here, guys, on it's not it's not working for me. There's no shame in that, right? Because it gives us the opportunity to to try and put it right effectively and to come at the problem in a different way. You know, we have, we're at the size and scale and shape of a business that we can do that. We can, you know, we'll we'll put a lot of effort into not losing you regardless of whether you're a small, so you know, sole trader or ah a large corporate, we'll put a lot of effort in. But we also spend, in our business, and I know from from our our chats, you you do as well. We spend an awful lot of time thinking about high how we can help our clients understand the value of our software more and better. And that is all part of our evolution in terms of the tools we give to our clients. you know Obviously, if you're a sole trader, you know exactly how you're using the software, but you may have you may start, in fact, we like it. They take for granted the value, basically, that's okay.
00:31:04
Speaker
if they're If they're continuing to keep using the software they're using at a level and ah they they stay a client, they're taking it for granted, it's fine by us. and for For others, they need to keep that understanding of value because they may be missing an opportunity where they could do better for their clients. ah thats were And a lot of innovation work and groups that I kind of sit on is that and you know our client's client is one step removed from us, but we can help our clients sell their vision better. and they need to be open to that. And certainly, they our clients that I've worked with on that have have reaped massive dividends in terms of their relationships with their um with their end clients and by utilizing support from their vendors, not just me, but from other vendors as well to say, look, you know we do this day in, day out, and this is the art of the possible. how How does that fit in with what business challenges you have today?
00:31:58
Speaker
I think that's a nice final point to end on there. um So yeah, overall, I think a quite in-depth episode actually about the digital transformation process and how to go from start to start in the process to success. um you know If anyone wants to get in touch with myself about digital transformation and and the CRM aspects, you can drop me a message on LinkedIn or you visit our website and get in touch with us there. um Gavin, if anyone wants to speak to you about your sort of report writing and and digital transformation, um how do they get in touch? and And have you got any other sort of final points to make? Yeah, I mean, i mean hopefully, um you know, the the the fact that we've we've kind of, um we talk about these things an awful lot. and We've been making the time to commit it to to to recording, really. Hopefully people understand, you know, we we the passion we have for this, um for for helping our clients do better and
00:32:48
Speaker
You know, it's what we spend our working lives doing. and And so if anyone wants to um to connect with me on LinkedIn, and to have a conversation about digital transformation, um you know, I'd be delighted. we' we're but I use free learning as much as I'm encouraging other people to use free learning. So um I always see that as ah as a two-way street. um And I think, you know, I suppose the final point back to the the paralysis by analysis and the waiting for the right time to do things, and Time passes by very, very quickly in business, even whenever you're um you feel like you're flying and with what you're doing. um And if you're not paying attention to how to do it better in the future, you can be sure that at least some of your competitors will be doing and ah the right the right time for them. um And your problem is you're only going to hear about it long after it's too late effectively. So um really encourage people to to to keep business improvement at the top of their agenda.
00:33:43
Speaker
Some very good last points. so Thank you for coming on today, Gavin. It was a pleasure to chat with you and I'm looking forward to doing it again soon. Great stuff. Thanks, Matt. Take care.