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Batman vs Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
167 Plays3 years ago
Voice actor David Ellis joins us this episode to talk about the animated Batman vs Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles! We discuss the history of the Turtles, the comic this movie was based on, and how these two seemingly disparate worlds unite in a fun way.
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Transcript
Introduction to Audiobooks and Recommendations
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Speaker
Hey, fellow superhero cenophiles. Did you know that almost 30% of adults say they haven't read a book in the past year? Primary reason why is a lack of time. Well, Audible's here to help with the gift of found time. Thanks to Audible, you can listen to audiobooks like Marvel Comics, The Untold Story, or Slugfest inside the epic 50-year battle between Marvel and DC.
00:00:19
Speaker
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Speaker
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Exploring Audible's Free Trial Offer
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Is Batman Supernatural or Gadget-Driven?
00:01:30
Speaker
They call him the Batman. Oh, Batman. Yeah, no, I'm glad that a half an hour of research pulled up the name I could have guessed in two seconds. I've read rumors about a supernatural bat creature in Gotham, but I assumed it was an urban legend or that he was a mutant like us. That guy was definitely human. And I think his supernatural powers are just his gadgets. Uh, we already know what he is. He's awesome! Unless he's a bad guy.
00:02:00
Speaker
That'd make him, like, 40% less awesome. No one knows his motives, but it does appear that he only attacks criminals, especially this clown guy.
Meet the Superhero Cinephiles Podcast
00:02:14
Speaker
So he wears a Dracula costume and punches clowns. Who cares? The dirtbag stole my side! Dracula costume? What kind of Dracula movies are you watching?
00:02:24
Speaker
Look, all I'm saying is, ever since Shredder stole the ooze from TCRI and came to Gotham, we know he's been working with a new partner, right? It's gotta be this bat creep. I'm not so sure. The way he fought, avoiding lethal blows, he wanted to figure us out. Like a detective.
00:02:42
Speaker
Okay, bros, I broke it down. Awesome. Little bat throwing things, cool car, sweet bat hat. Not awesome, kicked our butts, maybe evil, mean voice. Welcome to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. I'm your host, Perry Constantine, and I'm here with a new guest today who's someone I've known for
David Ellis: From Fan Fiction to Voice Acting
00:03:00
Speaker
a long time back in another guy from my fan fiction days, and that's David Ellis. Dave, how you doing today?
00:03:08
Speaker
Oh, I'm fine. Uh, yeah. Um, like I was just saying off air, um, I, uh, managed to survive the heat for another day and it's, uh, now my weekend. So that's cool. Um, yeah. Uh, and yeah. Um, I do remember those, uh, those heady days back in the 2000s of, uh, writing superhero fan fiction. And, uh, honestly, that's something that I still do, but, uh, yeah. Um, I remember back when we were, you know, all
00:03:37
Speaker
in that group, you know, like, you know, back in the days of what was it called at the time Yahoo clubs or something or Yahoo groups? Yahoo groups, I think it was. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That was. Yeah. It was it was still up up until I think it was like a few months ago. They finally closed it down. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of it was kind of amazing. So anyway, why don't you take a few minutes and tell the listeners a little bit about yourself?
00:04:06
Speaker
Okay, so I'm David Ellis, I am a, I'm a writer, I'm a, I may recently, you know, within this past year, I became a voice actor.
00:04:22
Speaker
I do stuff like that. I do lots of role playing and stuff like that. But as far as the stuff that I've, as far as the voice acting, I'm still kind of in the amateur phase because I am a member of a
00:04:42
Speaker
of an audio drama group called ATW, which is basically Akadeka Ganagan Theater Works. And that was started by a mutual friend of myself and Perry, who is Tom DJ, who has been on a past episode of this show. And he's basically the creative director
ATW's Creative Audio Drama Ventures
00:05:06
Speaker
that he got the idea of, you know, during this,
00:05:11
Speaker
quarantine pandemic sort of thing to finally do the thing that he's wanted to do for, you know, since he was a kid, which is audio dramas and, you know, you know, radio dramas, stuff like that. So how I got into that was actually it was actually a funny story because it happened entirely by accident.
00:05:31
Speaker
because another one of Tom's projects that he had done recently was this Justice League draft for a podcast on the Two True Freaks network. That's right. Yeah, I took part in that as well.
00:05:49
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And so I took part in that and I was doing a I was doing, you know, I was in my own like audio recordings of myself, you know, who I would cast in a football draft sort of thing for the for the Justice League. And I came up and I did characters like Captain Adam. I did like Black Canary. I did a few off the wall ones like like Plastic Man from DC's Tangent, you know, a number of different stuff.
00:06:19
Speaker
And so I think it was, I think that was the reason that this accident happened, but I ended up receiving a message over Facebook Messenger from Tom DJ. And he was asking me, or his question was, so it was like,
00:06:43
Speaker
where I'm still looking for your, I'm still looking for your auditions or I'm still waiting for auditions for something and I'm like.
00:06:51
Speaker
audition for what? And he was like, Oh, that's right. I'm sorry. Uh, this was a miss. So I meant to send this to someone else. And, uh, and I was like, okay, great. What is it you're talking about? Because what? And, uh, it's always turned out that, uh, he was, uh, trying to get this, uh, audio, uh, this audio drama group going, uh, so that he can do a strangers in paradise audio drama based on Terry Moore's comic book series.
00:07:18
Speaker
Oh, wow. Because he had gotten the go-ahead from Terry Moore himself. And I was like, wait, what? You're doing what? And it turned out that the role of David Chin was up. He was still casting for that. So I sent an audition, which I'm sure was absolutely horrible. But audio voice acting was something that I had been wanting to do.
00:07:47
Speaker
for years and I've done like a little bit on an amateur basis like, you know, even circling back to the fan fiction thing there. Tom DJ had this podcast in the 2000s called Other People's Toys. That's right. Yeah, I remember that. It was about our little sector of the fanfic community where we were putting out
00:08:10
Speaker
fan fiction in the form of, you know, kind of mimicking the form of like a publishing schedule, you know, monthly installments and stuff like that. So, so I would actually do like these, these like commercials for that, you know, hyping my own, you know, group, you know, my own corner of that, that universe. So I had like a little bit of, of voice acting interests of voice acting
00:08:37
Speaker
you know I had a little bit of experience doing that and I was and so I was like okay I want to send you like it's a I just basically like you know sent some auditions and I just tried to I just tried to get myself as as like insinuated into you know AGW as I could and I didn't get the part of David at
00:08:57
Speaker
first, but they had a few other side projects like public domain comic book theater, which is basically exactly what it sounds like, where they basically take
00:09:13
Speaker
comic books that are from like the 50s and 60s and before they're in the public domain and like adapt them into brief audio drama scripts. And so they were looking for people to fill various utility rules in that. So I'm like, yeah, I can be that kind of actor. I can definitely be the additional voices that you would see in the credits of an audio of like, you know, like say,
00:09:41
Speaker
if you're like watching a cartoon or you know some kind of feature with voice acting and you see like additional voices I'm like I can be that I can be those additional voices so like so I ended up getting cast as like various like cops and sheriffs and firefighters and ghosts and and stuff like that and I ended up you know being the lead in a couple of those and whatever and then um
00:10:06
Speaker
for the second season of Strangers in Paradise, the role of David once again became available because that actor, you know, like, ended up, you know, parting ways due to like, you know, scheduling and all that. And so, yeah, they were then looking for, you know, a new David and I'm like, well, I was up for that before. So, you know, I ended up, I ended up in a,
00:10:32
Speaker
in a live audition with two other actors who are also up for David. We were all on the same Skype call and we were just going through the script and acting out.
00:10:50
Speaker
I must have impressed them because very shortly after that audition ended, I was cast and I am currently the voice of David, who is one of the leads in Strangers in Paradise.
00:11:07
Speaker
And yeah, so, and also in that group, I am, you know, I'm writing various things like I've written a script or two for public domain comic theater I've done their VHS box theater thing where they basically, you know, the idea behind that is
00:11:29
Speaker
like adapting, well, not so much like adapting old B movies, but kind of the vague idea of them that the covers and back covers of the VHS or DVDs advertised.
00:11:45
Speaker
you know because they're like a lot of B-movies that you know sound really cool if you like read the back of the uh of the DVD or or the uh bhs box you're like oh wait i can't wait to see that and then the movie's absolute garbage so we're just kind of taking the idea of uh of uh like
00:12:03
Speaker
What of like you know what was described on the box itself and we're like, okay, we're just going to make our own. We're just going to make our own script based on that and just go in our own direction and and the thing I did was death code ninja, which Tom had
00:12:22
Speaker
He had, like, he posted a bunch of different, like, B-movie VHS boxes, you know, wanting to see if any of us were interested in that particular project idea. And I immediately saw that Death Code Ninja was one of them. It's like an 80s, like, B-movie with ninjas in it. I'm like, I know exactly what I want to do with that. And it is going to be a loving and completely bonkers, like,
00:12:51
Speaker
like tribute to eighties ninja movies and like within about a half hour I had I had emailed him like the outline to what I want for what I wanted death go ninja to be and he's like okay I guess we're doing this then all right and then and so I got I got working on the script and he and the rest of the cast uh liked it enough that um that I'm now following it up with um with
00:13:18
Speaker
a follow-up series called Foxes, which is an acronym, and is basically the continuing adventures of some characters that I had created for Death Code Ninja, and it's just kind of like spinning them off into their own female-fronted
00:13:41
Speaker
um, action martial arts movie franchise. And the fact that I'm doing this in an audio drama is kind of a creative exercise in itself because I can't show you the action scene. I can just basically like, uh, like, um, you know, in the script I put like, uh, you know, um, you know, sounds of like, you know, punching and kicking and grunting and stuff like that. But, you know, it's still, but I still, you know, like getting, you know,
00:14:07
Speaker
creative with the basic you know setups for the scenes and then you know as we're acting you know like as we go through the the voice recording you know like um there ends up being this um
00:14:21
Speaker
There's a being like this this like block of time that we set up for like okay so we want you all to just start grunting and start doing like all kinds of martial arts I'm like, yeah, go for the job that kind of thing and it's a, it is an absolute blast. I love working with these people.
00:14:42
Speaker
But they have such a fun sense of humor and being in an audio recording is basically like herding cats. So people like Tom or Gene Hendricks or some of the others who are voice directing at any given time, I don't envy them because getting us to stay focused is kind of amazing.
00:15:09
Speaker
But yeah, it's a lot of fun. And anybody who's interested in that bit of insanity can check out atw.ninja. That is the actual website of it. And we've got a bunch of different audio dramas that we've got the next year or two. We've got a bunch of stuff in the pike. Something we're most recently doing is an audio drama of a trucker, a Ron Randall.
00:15:38
Speaker
comic series that's been going since the 80s. We've done like the first, we don't like the first few episodes of that. And in that I play the main characters, Uncle Alex, who's a grizzly, is like a grizzly, I'm sorry, it's like a grizzled veteran police lieutenant who sounds kind of like this. He's kind of basically the Jim Gordon of that franchise. So
00:16:04
Speaker
I end up talking like this and just sounding very worn out, you know, very worn out, but also concerned for my niece, who's this bounty hunter, whose ways I don't approve of, but just be careful, Mercy, you know, that kind of thing. Right.
00:16:19
Speaker
Wow, really cool. So, um, how are those things being released? Are they being released like in podcast form? Are they being released as audio books? How are they, um, they're being released, uh, like on the, um, like, uh, kind of a little bit of column A, a little bit of column B.
00:16:37
Speaker
Uh, like, uh, when they're like, they're, their first run is on, is on the, uh, the, the two true freaks network, which is two, two true freaks.com. Or I think it's also like, um, I think it might also have like an audio, like an audio feed, like maybe on like, uh, on like Apple podcasts or something like that. But yeah, if you go to like two true freaks.com, you'll see like, um,
00:17:01
Speaker
the different, like, podcasts that they put out on a regular basis, and you'll find episodes that we release of APW productions, like Strangers in Paradise and Trucker and Public Domain Comic Theater, you know, like, like we put out stuff fairly regularly.
00:17:16
Speaker
And also we have a, I believe it's a coffee page and like you'll find it on the ATW.Ninja website, which is basically kind of our blog spot that's like hyping everything that we're doing. And it's basically like, we will put like, you know, collections of some of our stuff in like
00:17:43
Speaker
$5 downloads. So that's like a little bit of money coming our way. And I think we also have a, a Patreon that we're trying to get set up. So we're trying to, we're trying to move slowly but surely toward like some kind of monetization, some
Derek Ferguson's Contributions and Insights
00:18:00
Speaker
kind of like income for what we do, you know, but Oh, awesome. And so as, as Terry Moore talked to you at all about, have you heard about any feedback from him about your performance?
00:18:14
Speaker
Uh, I don't think I've heard from him specifically on my performance but he's been like just in general a really big fan of what we've been doing and also one Randall has likewise been really effusive in his praise for what we've been doing in fact,
00:18:32
Speaker
has sat in on our recording. I think but I know that that Ron Randall definitely was and Randall definitely like I think he even voiced a minor character in the in the Trucker audio drama so there's that. But but yeah so so yeah like basically what we try to do is
00:18:58
Speaker
as we try and get the the the approval of whoever it is that we're working with him and you know currently we're tiny outfits we try and go for like the the either the you know things that are in the public domain or things that have that are like small press creations where we have where we'd have like you know where it's like maybe like you know one person who's making the decision one or two people is making the decisions on that and that's like the creator like maybe you know
00:19:27
Speaker
you know, just one or two people who's like involved in that. So that's like so we don't have to go through a whole bunch of like corporations or whatever to like get our to like, you know, get approval for what we're
Batman vs. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: An Overview
00:19:40
Speaker
doing. One of the things that we tried like Tom is a is a like, like he's got a bunch of like comic book creators who are friends of his, you know, including Jimmy Paul Miati. And at one point he was like,
00:19:54
Speaker
So are there any of your creations that we can do audio dramas on and and pull me out he was you know immediately was like, do the pro. And for those who aren't familiar, that is a that is a
00:20:10
Speaker
black comedy about a prostitute who obtains superpowers and then is recruited for this like off-brand Justice League and it is just basically this like scathing and absolutely you know vulgar like satire of superhero conventions and like for a
00:20:34
Speaker
About a year, we were like waiting for like we got like, you know, these say we had Paul Meade's approval and we were just waiting for Garth Ennis who wrote the thing to to give his approval and then like, more recently, Garth, I think we finally heard from Garth and he was just like, nah,
00:20:52
Speaker
And then we're like, okay, well, I guess we don't have to wait on that approval. So yeah, on to other things. But yeah, we've got a few other things that we're trying to get that we're waiting on approval on, or we're kind of in early talks. And there's one comic book creator who's like, not, no, but give me six months for things to calm down. Right, right, right. Okay, cool. Wow.
00:21:22
Speaker
So it sounds like you guys are doing really interesting things over there. I had no idea. I knew Tom was doing some audio drama stuff, but I remember you mentioned something about that, but I didn't know how extensive it had gotten. That's really cool.
00:21:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And like, I'd honestly like, like, I was almost like kind of a kind of surprised that it like, it wasn't mentioned in any kind of detail that I can remember like when he appeared on a previous episode because that's like one of his favorite things that he's doing, you know. I think that probably had a lot to do just with the circumstances because he was on to talk about, that was right after Derek had passed away. So he came on to talk about that. So I think he was kind of pretty distracted at that time.
00:22:03
Speaker
Makes sense, makes sense, okay. But anyway, so today we're talking about a movie you picked out, and I remember watching this back when it first came out, I think I bought it like right away when it came out on iTunes, and that is Batman versus Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, which came out in 2019, animated movie directed by Jake Castarena, and joint production between Warner Brothers Animation and Nickelodeon.
00:22:30
Speaker
So let's jump right into it. Before we talk about the movie, what's your history with, were you a big Batman fan or a big TMNT fan going into this?
00:22:41
Speaker
The correct answer is yes, because I've been, I've been fans of both of them since I was a kid, like, some of my earliest memories were of seeing Batman on Super Friends in the 80s and, and like,
00:23:00
Speaker
reruns of the Adam West, you know, Batman TV show. And and so, you know, I knew who Batman was very early and, you know, long before, you know, Kevin Conroy became like the accepted voice for him or, you know, long before people just started agreeing that this is what he sounded like, you know, like Batman just basically sounded like a a, you know, grade school or middle school
00:23:30
Speaker
teacher who was really trying to get people, you know, she was really trying to get kids interested in science, you know, like he sounded like that. Right. Right. Yeah. And so, yeah, I was I was so, yeah, like I was I was into, you know, Batman and Robin from an early age and, you know, just like, you know, alongside, you know, the whole super friends and the whole like, you know, Superman who who was for me
00:23:57
Speaker
simultaneously George Reeves and Christopher Reeve, you know, and in fact, I think, and honestly, he was more, he was more George Reeves to me for the simple reason that I saw more that like I was regularly watching the, the, the
00:24:15
Speaker
old tv show that i didn't realize was from the 50s you know like right because i grew up in in uh in dallas and in fort worth and they have like uh and like you know at least since the 80s and probably before that they've had like entire you know tv stations that were just uh dedicated like syndicated programming
00:24:35
Speaker
So I would see TV shows from all different eras and have no concept that, that, that, you know, they came from like different decades. And also I was seeing most of them on a, you know, small black and white TV in my room that had had been from the fifties. So most things that I watched were in black and white. So I had no concept of like what reruns were for the longest time. Um, and as far as the turtles, um, my first, uh,
00:25:05
Speaker
my first exposure to them, I distinctly remember this was in the late 80s, like, you know, very shortly before the toy line came out, there was this show on, there was this like a commercial on TV that was like hyping the toy line and also had like
00:25:29
Speaker
clips from the cartoon.
TMNT in Comics and Media
00:25:33
Speaker
And it was just the weirdest thing that I had ever seen because it was like, it was like, these are turtles. They live in a sewer. They eat pizza. They are totally radical. They ride skateboard. Like I don't recall the exact word it was other than they eat pizza in like basically that inflection. And then it's like, I think,
00:25:56
Speaker
my brother and I were like watching TV with like the babysitter we had at the time. And I was just looking at those just like,
00:26:06
Speaker
And my, the babysitter was basically was saying what I think we were all thinking, which is, what are they gonna come up with next? You know, like, we just all thought this was like completely stupid looking. And it was basically out of sight, out of mind as soon as that commercial ended. And then like, sometime later, the toy line started being advertised in commercials. And I'm like,
00:26:32
Speaker
Oh, there's that. OK, I guess this is still something that's happening. It's still just as weird. I don't get it. Also, it like I don't even know if I if I even wondered why so much of the commercial was animated because, well, that was part of the experience of of toy commercials, you know, back in the 80s, you know, where like there would be, you know,
00:27:00
Speaker
there would be footage of kids playing with the toys. There would be footage from, there would be like animated footage of the toys in action and or both. I mean, you know, like some commercials had both. Some of them had one or the other. You know, some of the animation was like made up entirely for a commercial. Some of it was like footage from a commercial, from a,
00:27:28
Speaker
cartoon that existed. That was the big thing that a lot of cartoons and a lot of toy lines were doing back in the 80s because I think that was when the restrictions on product placement and all that had gotten kind of loosened. So then they were able to do basically create toy lines that were that create these animated series that were just created for the toy line. That was how Mesh in the Universe was the first one of those I believe.
00:27:54
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And that's just like snowballed all throughout the eighties. Meaning it was a great time to be a kid because it was just all this, you know, awesome like toys and cartoons and not even much like concept that, that the cartoons were like just to sell the toys and then being manipulated by marketing. It's just like, yeah.
00:28:21
Speaker
I want that cool thing and it's on TV and I also and I'm also seeing it on the in the toys and I want those toys and it's just you know and then you know like playing with the toys and just kind of like you know and for me at least not having very many toys and just basically having like hand-me-down toys from cousins and stuff like that.
00:28:42
Speaker
like that, and just like assembling this hodgepodge of like bizarre, like, you know, just bizarre adventures that like utilize whatever was at hand. And I will say this, like, those pretend sessions that I had with my toys, had had like commercials in them, they like they actually had commercial breaks, because that was part of the experience for me. Right. Yeah.
00:29:08
Speaker
like the interest because like the the cartoons would like be at their most exciting right before a commercial break so you know commercials were part of the experience so i would actually factor in commercial breaks and act those out too i remember i remember acting out opening credits myself when i did that when i was a kid who did i yes because those were part of the experience exactly
00:29:29
Speaker
they would be the most, you know, they would be the best animated parts of the of the shows because they actually put the time and the money into that animation. And then that would be the animation that we would then convince ourselves was carried through the entire show. Right. And then, you know, of course, you know, as as, you know, once we got older, we then, you know, watch those shows again, be like, what?
00:29:56
Speaker
Yeah, and you realize how many sequences they reused and over and over again.
00:30:02
Speaker
Wait, was the animation that bad or cheap or sloppy the entire time? I don't remember that. And then, you know, you look back, it's like, oh, that was just the animation in the opening credits. That's just what we transposed on everything. OK, that makes sense now. You know, so it is so like just, you know, it is kind of the experience of being of being an 80s kid and then like
00:30:28
Speaker
And I saw so many of those Turtles toy commercials that after a while, seeing so much of the animation, I'm like, so is there an actual cartoon that's happening? Like, am I just missing it? Is it coming on in the morning when I've already gone off to school? Is it happening then?
00:30:49
Speaker
According to the to the TV guide. No. So what is this? And then it is like I was then blindsided at one point by the premiere of the cartoon, like in the afternoon after I got home from school. And yeah, this happened. Well, yeah, the the Netflix series, the toys that made us, they did one on Ninja Turtles. And I think if I'm remembering correctly, like they said that
00:31:14
Speaker
There was some scheduling difficulties and that's why the cartoon, the commercials actually ended up coming out before the show actually premiered because they had trouble finding a network or something like that, I believe it was. Yeah, they had the hardest time finding any executives that were interested, any funding for
00:31:32
Speaker
the toy line any toys any toy lines that wanted to pick this up anything at all like uh and uh yeah the uh um but they but yeah Kevin Eastman and Peter Layard who created the property like it like they
00:31:49
Speaker
like once they debuted their comic series in 1984, it got surprisingly popular in ways that they could not have foreseen. To the point that the second issue of their comic series ended on a specific line of dialogue, which was one of the turtles saying, well, it worked.
00:32:15
Speaker
And that was their commentary on their unexpected success because, you know, like, they were trying to like they had this like really crazy idea, and like getting anybody to pay attention to it was an uphill battle, but then they were surprised by the attention that it actually got. And then they, and then like,
00:32:37
Speaker
It then caused them to basically like have to fend off like, um, Hollywood like marketing executives, like just thumb them off with the chair and a whip, you know, just be like, no, that no, not that no, no, not you either.
00:32:53
Speaker
That's way too scuzzy. No, I'm not interested in that either. And just kind of go through that. And then finally, like there was this, if I delete, like there's this one guy, I believe his name is Mark Friedman, who's an advertising guy. And they're like, okay, we've gone through so many of you at this point. Like, we're willing to actually work with you if you can give us results on a very short timeframe.
00:33:17
Speaker
And so he had to like, it's a like, he just had to like, call every, he had to call like every contact he had, he had to like knock on every door he could find. And then just try and sell this like insane property to people. And then like Playmates Toys was the only one that actually bought it because they were this doll company that was desperately trying to do something different.
00:33:47
Speaker
We'll try this, sure. Yeah, yeah, that was a really, I got to rewatch that episode again. That was a really good episode that The Toys That Made Us did about that. But anyway, so about this movie was actually based on a comic book that was done by James Tinian IV and Freddie Williams II. Did you ever read the comic that was based on? I think I, I think I ended up reading, let's see,
00:34:14
Speaker
Oh, I did end up like I, I managed to track down an issue at one point, and then, like, much later I was finally able to read the whole thing and like they had a they had a few different.
00:34:32
Speaker
series of that because it was popular and one of those they actually kind of just like went feet first into the whole Elseworlds thing and even had this like alternate dimension where it where like Bruce Wayne was was orphaned and like he was raised by splinter alongside the Teenage Mutant Digitals.
00:34:56
Speaker
it was so it was so bizarre but it was like really cool it's like uh and one of it like yeah one of the uh one of the uh miniseries that that they did with the uh with the uh batman and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles like I believe it actually ended with this like uh splash page of like various Gotham villains being mutated into animal hybrids by
00:35:21
Speaker
And then they actually expanded upon that for this animated movie, which I enjoyed the hell out of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they even did. There's one that was based on.
00:35:34
Speaker
the animated series version of Batman. Yeah, they did a mini series that was basically a fusion of Batman the Animated Series along with the 2012
00:35:52
Speaker
CGI animated series. And those two animated styles actually fit together a lot better than I would have expected. But yeah, like they were they were both kind of loose and cartoony enough that they could actually kind of, you know, fuse together with with, you know, like they were exaggerated enough that it was like, OK, I guess this works. Sure. Yeah, I mean, you wouldn't expect that just looking from the TV shows, but just looking at I haven't read that.
00:36:21
Speaker
miniseries, but just looking at the artwork and the preview pages on Comixology. It's a really nice style. It looks like it really worked for this series.
00:36:32
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I read like a little bit of that. And it definitely seemed like it was like it was a lot of fun anyway. And it was definitely a pretty good use of of both shows, especially with with the idea of the the turtles taking on Clayface.
Analyzing the Batman vs. TMNT Movie
00:36:52
Speaker
I mean, that that ended up being a really fun sequence. Yeah, I remember I'm not sure if I read the whole thing. I'm reading at least some of this comic book.
00:37:01
Speaker
but it was a while ago, so I'm not really very, I don't remember much about it. But what were your thoughts watching this movie? Watching the movie. Yeah, like you, I bought it immediately when it came out. I bought the DVD Blu-ray copy. And in fact, to prep for this earlier in the week, I brought out the...
00:37:29
Speaker
I brought out that Blu-ray version again and I watched that and yeah, it was basically as fun as I was hoping this kind of crossover would be.
00:37:46
Speaker
You can definitely tell that the people making it are like really big Turtles fans who were just basically like set loose by the opportunity to actually do Turtles like it like almost it seemed like almost every frame was like a love letter to various aspects of the of the the different Turtles franchises to the point where like where like they were they were
00:38:14
Speaker
It was almost like the Batman portion of it was almost sidelined in a, do we have to do Batman sort of way? It's like, do we have to bring this guy into it? I mean, we're having so much fun with the turtles. Do we have to? But honestly though, they just had the right amount of fun that I would hope for with this kind of thing because what they ended up doing was
00:38:44
Speaker
They leaned into all the different ways that the that the Batman franchise is like.
00:38:54
Speaker
incredibly fun and bizarre because a lot of recent depictions of Batman have been leaning on the dark and gritty, violent, and this is a very dark journey. You're not going to have any fun at all, and you're going to have exactly as much fun as Batman is having, which is none.
00:39:19
Speaker
and you know it's all that and it's like uh this movie is like okay so let me get this straight there's a villain named the penguin who's wearing a tuxedo he has all kinds of umbrellas that do various like gags and he has a bunch of uh of
00:39:39
Speaker
like thug henchmen and I love this touch that uh that the character designers like had the henchmen all wear like these t-shirts with the uh with the the tuxedo design on it like they're all wearing that and I'm like that is a brilliant touch and I love this and
00:39:57
Speaker
And of course, they had Michelangelo as the exact person who would notice all this and be like, this is amazing. I want to live here. Not understanding how dark and violent and tragic day-to-day life in Gotham is. He's just a tourist having a blast. He's like, this is awesome, bro.
00:40:21
Speaker
Now for me, I actually thought, I thought it was kind of funny that you mentioned that you thought they were almost felt like sideline, like the Batman stuff was sideline. I felt like it was a decent balance of both because there's lots of references to a lot of Batman stuff I picked up, like references to stuff in the animated series.
00:40:38
Speaker
Even like the whole look of Batman, it's very much evocative of like the Neil Adams style or the frame of the whole one. I didn't notice that, yeah. And then like even when Batgirl takes the selfie at the end, that was a direct reference to Cameron Stewart's Batgirl one at the time.
00:40:59
Speaker
So yeah, yeah, I did. I didn't notice those. And yeah, I think the thinking on the plus the airship too was also something that jumped out of me because that was something that was the big aesthetic of the the the animated series with the whole thing. Yeah, they had they had so much fun with that. They're like, yeah, we're just going to bring in the blimps from the animated series. And of course, we're going to have the turtles comment on that because, you know, again, they're not beholden to the fact that this is supposed to be like dark and serious. Michelangelo is going to be like, I wonder what
00:41:28
Speaker
Those are four. Yeah. And sooner or later and like, you know, toward the end of the movie, it comes back and actually has a use. Yeah. And yeah, the I did notice that it was like, you know, 70s Neil Adams Batman or like, you know, basically what he looked like throughout the 80s. So they're like, well, the turtles is an 80s property. And so we're good. So if we're going to pair him up with Batman, you know, he's going to look like he did in the 80s. So, you know, you know,
00:41:58
Speaker
One of the things that really struck me and I didn't realize it, I don't know, because it had been a while since I watched it. I watched it when it first came out and then I hadn't watched again until last night to prepare for this episode. But the thing that jumped out at me right from the start that I guess maybe I was maybe a little bit sleepy the first time I watched it or whatever, but stuff that just didn't, I wasn't paying as much attention for the first time around. But this time around, like the opening credits were amazing.
00:42:24
Speaker
I mean, just like the design they use in that sequence was unbelievable. Like the black and white and then the little flashes of color here and there. I thought that was extremely well done.
00:42:37
Speaker
Yeah, that in the end credits sequence where they just load it all, hang out and they did all these like parodies of various Batman and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles covers where they'd have a specific cover to a Turtles comic and they put Batman or the Shredder in it.
00:42:58
Speaker
or or vice versa they'd have a they'd have like an iconic Batman cover and they'd have the turtle they they'd like manipulated so that it looked like the turtles were in it it's just like okay like this could not be clear that this is a love letter to both franchises but particularly the turtles because yeah I remember one of the really jumped out at me was there was a one of the covers was for
00:43:22
Speaker
Raphael one of the micro series and it was yeah the original cover was Raphael versus Casey Jones but they changed its nightwing using his original 80s costume. Yes yeah I noticed that I'm like okay that's that's absolutely perfect yeah that was yeah that was that was the first Raphael micro series yeah yeah
00:43:43
Speaker
because, you know, back in the Mirage days, Eastman and Laird would have these, you know, like alongside their Turtles series, they'd have a number of different other comics that they do. And they'd have the occasional one-shot comic that they would like focus on a specific turtle. And the first one of those was Raphael. And they call those a micro series as a gag of like, you know,
00:44:10
Speaker
DC calling their one shots, you know, or no, you know, calling their like, you know, they'd have like mini series, you know, of like four issues or five issues or whatever. And they're like, well, this is one issue. So it's a micro series, you know, just just kind of leaning into the the gag of that first one of those was a Raphael micro series that was the first appearance of Casey Jones. Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:40
Speaker
And also, the references I did notice as well, there was that reference. I think it was when the turtles first appear and it's very much evocative of the original animated series opening credits.
00:44:53
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, there was there was a shot where they were like, like, they're all they're on the roofs. Yeah. Yeah. Just like on the roof. Yeah. Like I'm like several different roofs on, you know, and they're they're they're all like, you know, looking badass and they're kind of, you know, posing and and it's like, yeah, that there's that exact one. And there's a shot at one point where Michelangelo was like deflecting things with his nunchucks the same way he did in the in the age cartoons opening. And yeah, they they
00:45:21
Speaker
Like, yeah, there was like so much staging. It was like directly from animated series or comics and stuff like that. So yeah, they were, like I said, like this was such a fun love letter. Yeah. And I really liked the way they did the design, like the character design in this, the artwork, it's interesting because looking at it,
00:45:45
Speaker
Like the turtles look amazing but and and and battle and Robin also look really good, but looking at it, you know just the images at first, the first thing I thought when I saw the images of this i'm like I do not like their Batman design but.
00:45:58
Speaker
Watching it you completely forget about that it actually works really well, but the thing I especially liked about the turtles designs was the way they had worked in things that were kind of goofy in the original. animated series design like the like the letters having their letters on their belt buckles I always thought that was kind of goofy in the in the 80s animated series and.
00:46:20
Speaker
but they found a really clever way to work that in here where it's just like the style of their belt loops just happened to resemble the letters. I thought that was a really clever way to do that. Yeah, I really do like the character designs that they had. For the turtles, they made each one look visibly distinct, not only in what they were wearing, how they wore their gear. Also like body types, each one had a distinctive silhouette.
00:46:48
Speaker
You know, like back in 84 when they were first coming up with this franchise, Eastman and Laird, you know, like didn't really think of like, how do you tell these characters apart? You know, they always knew which characters were saying what, you know, even when, you know, there wasn't the signifier of like what weapon they were, they had, you know, like, you know,
00:47:16
Speaker
And then, you know, once once it was being shopped around, you know, for like animation, you know, for the 80s cartoon, you know, the people, you know, the people working on it were like, OK, we need to know who's who. And the kids are definitely going to want to know who's who. So what can we do here? Can we write code them, you know, and like, I don't know whether this was like
00:47:40
Speaker
whether or not this was intentional, but like the color coding ended up being kind of reminiscent of like Japanese tokusatsu, you know, like, you know, if, you know, before there was Power Rangers and, you know, like, and, you know, with stuff like, you know, Voltron being a recent memory, you know, like, like there was a certain, you know, color coding, you know, alongside different weapons that, that, that worked for them. But, more recent animation, you know, more recent,
00:48:11
Speaker
properties dealing with the turtles have found different ways to make them visually distinct from each other. Right. Yeah. Yeah. The AD show, it was just basically the same character models for all of them, just different colors,
Voice Acting and Character Dynamics
00:48:21
Speaker
palettes. Yeah. I think the 2003 animating series, I think that was the first time that they really made an effort to visually distinguish and use like different character body types and everything for each of the turtles.
00:48:35
Speaker
Uh, that one, not so much. Um, like, uh, the, the 2003 series, uh, they, they, like, uh, there was even a, like, um, on the character model sheets, there was even a, uh, a note that the turtles were basically depicted as like, uh, identical, uh, quadruplets, you know, there's just, uh, it's just their, uh, coloring would, would, uh, would set them apart. But like, um, like I, I think the first one to, to actually, uh,
00:49:05
Speaker
do this in terms of animation was like the 2007 TMNT movie, which I enjoyed quite a bit. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah, that one. Yeah, that one definitely did a lot more with like distinctive body parts, body types, like specifically, like definitely with Raphael, you know, making him the, you know, the physically heavier, you know, muscle bound type. And because
00:49:30
Speaker
you know, he's been usually depicted as like the brawler kind of type, you know, most depictions of the turtles these days, you know, make him look as huge as possible and in comparison to his brothers. And usually, these days, Donatello is like the skinny one, because, hey, he's the one who's like working with computers all the time. So, you know, he I guess he doesn't exercise as much as the others. Right, right. You know, one thing I too, I like is just the way they, they had
00:50:00
Speaker
leo swords because having now learned more about the samurai and all that kind of stuff like the fact that he had the swords on the back was it it's very strained way of doing it because they didn't they didn't actually wear swords on their back so so in this show though they put it at the side, which is how they traditionally are worn so I thought that was a nice little touch as well.
00:50:20
Speaker
Yeah, and and that that that serves a number of purposes, to me, like one it depicts Leonardo was more of a, you know, stoic samurai warrior type because well let's face it the, the.
00:50:35
Speaker
the turtles are called ninjas, but not a lot that they do actually like coincides with what a ninja would do. Like, for instance, uh, like in Dungeons and Dragons, uh, recently with, uh, with, uh, fifth edition, uh, they have a, uh, a, uh, race, uh, called the turtles, which is like, basically like, uh, humanoid tortoises. And, and I'm like, okay, I want to make a ninja turtle with that, with that rule set. And, um, like,
00:51:04
Speaker
They have a ninja classic character, but I'm like, this doesn't this doesn't fit with with what like Ninja Turtles do. So instead, I went to the monk class because they have this they they have this subset called the the Path of the Kensei Sword Saint. So basically, you know, you can like
00:51:26
Speaker
uh specialize a monk into like being trained with a specific weapon and going on this warrior path sort of thing i'm like that fits leonardo perfectly so i'm gonna create this uh this tortle monk named rio you know which is which is as close as i could get to leo and uh just basically you know play leonardo and dungeons and dragons that sort of thing but yeah the idea is that like you know he fits more of like a samurai type than he does like a typical um
00:51:54
Speaker
uh that he that's a typical ninja and the other purpose you know behind uh you know having the swords at his side is that he doesn't have to reach him because like I never understood why they were like uh you know strapped to his shell how would he reach them yeah yeah uh well also it's the nice thing too I noticed too is that the elbow pads are even reminiscent of samurai armor like the cleaves on the on the salmon it's a very similar style that
00:52:22
Speaker
And just like those little touches I thought really nice they did here, and I think Leo is the only one that had that kind of thing because i'm looking at some of these images here, and it looks like Mike at least has just regular you know smooth me pads and elbow pads.
00:52:37
Speaker
Yeah, they even did some differentiation on, like I said, the way they're wearing their gear or what kind of gear they're wearing. Like Raphael, I think instead of just having those leather or cloth wristbands that are often seen on the turtles, his are just like these leather hand wraps.
00:53:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. In fact, I noticed that I was going to mention the same thing. None of the characters have those. They don't have those those brace those wrist wrap things except for Raphael. And it's almost like a like a boxer's taping.
00:53:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. He tapes his hands like an MMA fighter or a boxer or somebody like that. And that's something that a lot of recent depictions of Raphael have done, where each of the turtles has such a vastly different fighting style from each other. You've got Leonardo, who's a
00:53:40
Speaker
you know for obvious reasons he is a samurai sword fighter you know uh Michelangelo is kind of a break dancer a lot of the time and uh and you know he goes for like you know all kinds of like flashy moves and stuff like that he like he will do like
00:53:57
Speaker
skateboarding and surfing moves while he's fighting or like I said break dancing or just bust out Bruce Lee moves with his net chugs you know Donatello is a technical fighter you know and um like a lot of people are you know wonder why it is that the most high-tech turtle is the one with the wooden stick and it's like well
00:54:16
Speaker
You know, he's like, um, that's, you know, like, uh, he can still do a lot of like, you know, uh, technical moves with like, you know, very precise, um, strikes with a, with his bow and a lot of like, you know, whirling around, you know, like spinning it around that sort of thing. And, uh, you know, that, that, that fits, if it's fighting style, we're, we're like, you know, he only fights if he absolutely has to, because he's usually, you know, like the most pacifistic of the group. And then, you know,
00:54:46
Speaker
then of course there's Raphael who's the angry one and he's the one who gets into the most fights so you know like a lot of the inspiration for how he fights particularly in like animation and in video games is MMA fighters right you know so yeah so like he'll he'll do like you know MMA and like Muay Thai kickboxing yeah yeah so I thought they did they did a really nice job differentiating those even like you were saying with um when you're talking about Donnie too I noticed that
00:55:15
Speaker
in some of these images, like his belt actually has like pouches and compartments and things like that, which is something that would make sense for his character to have more stuff to carry around.
00:55:26
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Like, like, I always figured that, like, if you're going to go through the trouble of, like, drawing them with belts, put something on the belts because they're not holding pants up. Right. Like, like, like, you know, over and above, like just being ways to, like, you know, stow their weapons, you know, like, like occasionally they'll be depicted as like having throwing stars or grappling hugs, you know. Right.
00:55:53
Speaker
pick them as, as like, as like having places on their belt to store that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, see what else I want to jump to. One of the things that really impressed me too was Troy Baker did the voice of Batman, but he also did the voice of the Joker. And I was watching this and I was, because his, his Batman is, it's obviously influenced by, by Kevin Conroy, but it's not quite the same as Kevin Conroy's. And you can tell it's not Conroy, but even as Joker, like I did,
00:56:23
Speaker
I was questioning whether or not that was actually Mark Hamill doing The Voice of the Joker, and I had to go look it up. And I was surprised when I saw that it was Cory Baker doing both of them.
00:56:33
Speaker
Yeah, and I believe that was the same voice of the Joker from Batman Arkham Origins, because I know it was a different Batman, too, I believe. I don't think it was Troy Baker doing Batman.
00:56:57
Speaker
He sounded definitely similar to that. But yeah, the Batman and Joker in this movie ended up sounding very similar to the Batman and Joker from Arkham Origins, who in turn
00:57:14
Speaker
were intentionally, you know, sounding similar to, to Conroy and Hamill. And, and yeah, I definitely like like that. And I was definitely amazed that that in this movie, both Batman and Joker were, were, were the joke were, you know, the same voice actor. Has that ever happened before?
00:57:35
Speaker
Yeah, I don't think so. I think this is the first time that it's been done. So yeah, you're right. Troy Baker did do The Voice of the Joker, and he also did The Voice of the Joker in the recent long Halloween animated movie. I still haven't seen that. I haven't seen that either. Wait until they come out with the combined two-parter. Makes sense. And then Roger Craig Smith was the one who did it in Arkham Origin.
00:57:58
Speaker
Right, yeah, that's the name I was thinking of. It's like, okay, it's one of the voice actors who's billed with three names. And it's like something, something, something. And I headed down to him or Robin Atkin Downs, and I'm like, that doesn't sound right. So what's the other one? And then, so yeah, Roger Craig Smith, yeah, it's that one.
00:58:24
Speaker
Yeah, they did a great job. And yeah, I like the voice casting. I like the acting on the turtles and the different Batman villains because they just brought out almost the entire rogues gallery just to let it all hang out. Yeah, yeah.
00:58:50
Speaker
Yeah, the voice actor, they were a really good job and especially brought back Tara Strong as Harley Quinn as well, I noticed. Yeah, yeah, I like her.
00:59:02
Speaker
Her Harley Quinn not like a lot of like it seems like not a lot of people do because you know a lot of people prefer Arlene Sorkin as as Harley Quinn which you know she was the she was definitely the first one and she she defined the character and she was also the voice that Paul Dini had in his head when
00:59:22
Speaker
when he first conceived the character, but at the same time, like, you know, having played, um, Batman Arkham Asylum, which was, which I believe was, uh, Sorkin's, like, last role, like, it seemed like, uh, like, um, that was kind of, like, labored on her part, and, like, uh, like, her voice was, like, had gotten too gravely for it, and, like, you know,
00:59:44
Speaker
no offense at all intended for Arlene Sorkin, but it's just like, but I think, I think, you know, it was one of those cases where the writing was kind of on the wall that like, that like, she just couldn't keep doing this and, and Tara Strong, I think, you know, was a, was a good, you know, successor because she has, because yeah, she can go into that, that audio quality as, as Harley Quinn and be, you know, the right kind of playful,
01:00:11
Speaker
I'm kind of surprised to hear that people didn't the people are something against her strong because I thought she's I've always thought she's done a great job. Yeah, yeah, like I just heard heard some like, like, you know, negativity toward that I guess it's just, you know, you know,
01:00:28
Speaker
they prefer Arlene Sorkin or or it doesn't sound you know entirely right but you know like um you know it's just typical fanboy bitching type stuff yeah yeah exactly I don't take it too I don't take it too seriously and you know like she's already had a number of voice actresses you know uh as Harley Quinn you know to begin with you know Hendon Walsh and a and a few others you know a couple of actresses from Big Bang Theory etc and they've all had
01:00:57
Speaker
various. Oh, yeah, yeah. What's trying to remember her name, Kate, Katie or Katie, Katie Coco. Yeah, yeah, she's she's great on the Harley Quinn animated series. Yeah, yeah. And a friend of mine has been like, you know, just hounding me to watch that show. And I'm like, it's on my list. It's really good. It's definitely worth a watch. It's a lot of fun. Okay, yeah, I should definitely make
01:01:23
Speaker
make time and catch up on that because I have seen like you know clips of it and all that and I do you know think it's a lot of fun what it is they're doing like I especially like her as Harley Quinn and I especially like
01:01:42
Speaker
Yeah, he's amazing. He's one of my favorite characters. Yeah. Like he, like he is absolutely hilarious. And I like how recent depictions of, of King shark and just like leaned into how like absurd the shark is. And like,
01:02:01
Speaker
you know, whether it's, you know, the Suicide Squad movie that's coming up that just has, you know, Sylvester Stallone be like, and exactly, you know, or, you know, just like, this really comedic take on King Shark or, you know, Gail Simone writing the character and in, what was it, Secret Six and just be like, I'm a shark, I'm a shark, I'm a shark, I'm a shark, I'm a shark.
01:02:24
Speaker
Come on motherfucker shark. A podcast that I listened to years ago had guests that that particular line of dialogue was meant to be sung in the William Tell Overture and Gail Simone actually confirmed it because a lot of people were like
01:02:45
Speaker
What? I'm a shark, I'm a shark, I'm a shark, I'm a shark, I'm a motherfucking shark. What? But no, it apparently was like, it was supposed to be read as, you know, in the tune of the William Tell Overture, which I think is hilarious. Yeah, that doesn't knowing, knowing Gail Simone, that does not surprise me at all. Yeah.
01:03:05
Speaker
Yeah, and like, you know, stuff like that, like I like that kind of like, you know, really fun quality because, you know, particularly with stuff like Batman, particularly stuff with the with, you know, Ninja Turtles, because, you know, I just
01:03:22
Speaker
like I can kind of get behind some of the dark stuff but but to a point I think you know stuff like Batman the Animated Series was kind of like you know about the right balance that I you know that it would need to be where right a lot of like
01:03:37
Speaker
serious stuff going on and like it's treated seriously and all that but there but at the same time at the drop of a hat it can lean way into like Warner Brothers cartoon stuff and there's a lot like this acknowledgement that like yeah right yeah yeah silly stuff and you know same with the turtles where like there's a lot of like uh you know complaints in the fan community that like various
01:04:02
Speaker
cartoons and comics just aren't dark enough and it can be a lot more dark and bloody because back in the day you know the uh the mirage comics were like you know really dark and there's like and the turtles would kill people it's really bloody and stuff like that and i'm like you do realize that the stuff that their overall intention
01:04:22
Speaker
was to be as goofy as possible, right? Yeah, they were parodying a lot of that stuff. Yeah, they were they were leading into the stuff that they loved about comics, which was which was like, you know, making this as silly as possible. And heck, the the very inspiration behind the turtles was was
01:04:40
Speaker
Eastman and Layard playing with each other because they lived in the same house and they watched a lot of like bad TV together and they had this game called dueling sketches where Kevin Eastman would pester Peter Layard while Layard's watching television usually you know cop shows like Law and Order or you know stuff like that that they were watching in the 80s.
01:05:07
Speaker
you know, whatever they had to watch in the 80s, you know, like cop shows, ninja movies, you know, stuff like that. And Kevin Eastwood was like, had this idea, you know, based on a martial, based on martial arts movies, like, okay, what is the dumbest animal I could possibly draw as Bruce Lee?
01:05:28
Speaker
And so it's the idea of drawing a bipedal turtle with nunchuck strapped to his arm, meant to be a martial artist. That just cracked him up. So he scribbled that on a napkin and handed it to Peter Layard and said, hey, look, this is the ninja turtle. And apparently, Peter Layard just let that crack him up. And their dueling sketches game was basically a game of yes and.
01:05:58
Speaker
to use an improvisation term where it's like, okay, I'm going to draw the same thing, but then add something to it. So he drew like, so he like drew like, I think he was either like more, he drew like four of them, or he just like drew more than one and just like tossed it back. And then like, they just kept going back and forth. And then like, and like, you know, adding
01:06:21
Speaker
you know to the name ninja turtles it'd be like teenage mutant ninja turtles just to make it sound even sillier and you know they they they were just like cracked up by this idea and then it was and they're like okay what do we do with this because we really want to draw this and like they were just and so they they thought that they had this potential for a comic book series and it's like
01:06:43
Speaker
what do we do with this? So they just like threw in everything that they liked at the time about comics, you know, not only the the comics that Frank Miller was doing at the time, which was like Ronin and Daredevil and Dark Knight Returns, you know, stuff in that era, but also, you know, like Jack Kirby comics, because that was how the two of them first
01:07:07
Speaker
uh made friends was they were both uh they were both um like struggling artists you know commercial arts on the east coast and like uh and like a friend of a friend introduced Kevin Eastman to Peter Laird being like well those two is like you know here's a here's an artist I know who does like uh who does like um artwork for this newspaper so you know uh here's his contact info maybe you can have a conversation with him
01:07:34
Speaker
And so he did and they hit it off immediately talking about Jack Kirby comics. And then like after a while they moved in together and you know, they just became this like team. They started, they did various, you know, like
01:07:54
Speaker
independent, you know, comics like there was this series called that they did called gobbledygook that I think was, was their initial was was like the initial like anthology comic that they based Mirage Studios around because
01:08:12
Speaker
the mirage was their apartment building, you know, like their studio didn't exist. It was just like, it was just them, their apartment or their house and their art supplies and drawing boards. That was it. That was the studio.
01:08:28
Speaker
They called it Mirage Studios and one of their first projects, if not the first project, was the Fugitoid, which was about this robot, this scientist who had this robot helper that due to
01:08:48
Speaker
that, due to this freak accident involving lightning, got his consciousness transferred into the robot. And this robot was then a fugitive of this fascist military outfit and was labeled a fugitive. Right. Which ended up having the turtles cross over with that as well.
01:09:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they were like, because, you know, once they got the the Turtles line, you know, the Turtles comics going, you know, they they were doing, you know, they were bringing in more and more Jack Kirby influences. And it's like, well, why don't we have a meet the the Fugitoid and and the comics where they met the Fugitoid was like, that was my first experience. That was my first exposure to the Turtles
01:09:44
Speaker
comics or at least the mirage comics because first comics had put out these like these full color collections of the early comics and at the time I was getting into comics in I believe it was yeah it was 91 because I was 12 and I was in
01:10:09
Speaker
Yeah, I was in school and in homeroom I had a friend of mine who started bringing his comic books to homeroom and I was like, oh, those look cool. I want to read those. And so he tossed them to me and we'd read them.
01:10:24
Speaker
in homeroom and and you know I would read stuff like it so he had stuff like Batman comics and Captain America and Spider-Man and and when he saw that like mine and when I saw the the book two of the the turtles collection it was like
01:10:43
Speaker
And that was after I'd seen the 1990 live-action movie, which was so much different than the 87 movie, right? Right, yeah. From the 87 series? Yeah, the 87 cartoon. Yeah, because they based the movies. Eastman and Lyric had a lot more control over the movie from what I...
01:11:05
Speaker
what I understand. So they were, so the movie was a lot more true to the comics in that sense, so much so that in the sequel, when the studio had wanted to do Bebop and Rocksteady and Eastman and Lyrd refused because they hated those characters.
01:11:18
Speaker
Yeah, they were like, yeah, but we want this movie to be more like the comic. Right, right. So they ended up. Yeah, we can we can create characters that are, you know, for this movie, but we don't want to bring in be involved in Rocksteady. And but anyway, yeah, which is a lesson Michael Bay should have learned. But that's another story.
01:11:38
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, honestly, I don't I don't particularly mind Bebop and Rocksteady as as characters in like movies or or or whatever, like, and like, particularly in the current, I mean, W comics series are great. But yeah, but but anyway, the the the collection, you know, that that book collection like I had heard that the that the
01:12:06
Speaker
that the cartoon series was based on a comic book series that had come before it, but I had just assumed that it was like the cartoon. And then of course, like, you know, alongside the cartoon was the Archie comics series, you know, Archie comics was publishing and that was very much like the cartoon, but kind of spun off in its own directions. I'm like, okay, so it's like that. And then I got this collected edition and I'm like,
01:12:36
Speaker
Oh, okay, because then I saw how the, then I saw how the live action movie was kind of a hybrid between the cartoon and the comic book series. I'm like, oh, this makes sense now. Now I understand why the turtles look like that in the movie. I understand, okay, this makes sense now, this makes sense now.
01:13:04
Speaker
okay this is weird but it also makes sense and uh so from then on like um like you know i like the 1990 movie had already been this uh transformative experience to me you know because i was just like oh this is this is a much different version of the turtles than i was used to and i was like and then it just became like and then i just wanted uh and then it just became like
01:13:30
Speaker
it started overshadowing the cartoon. And then like seeing the collected edition of the Mirage comics, I was like, oh, this is actually what that was supposed to be in the first place. Okay, I wanna look more into this. And so I just kinda like lean more heavily into that. And around that time, you know, the, you know,
01:13:59
Speaker
The cartoon was getting you know further into its seasons and kind of like rolling downhill in terms of quality so I was just kind of like becoming less and less interested in that, and, and.
01:14:13
Speaker
Turtles became this franchise that in a weird way and in an accidental way was kind of growing up with me because as I was like aging out of like some of the more kid-friendly stuff, I was discovering, you know, some of the stuff that was like aimed for like an older, like, you know, independent comics sort of audience. So I'm like, okay, this is more interesting. But,
01:14:39
Speaker
But at the same time, you know, I never got to the point that like some turtles fans I've seen were like where they're like, you know, turtles should be like violent and edgy and they're ninjas. So they should be killing people. And there should be like boobs everywhere and stuff like that. And I'm like,
01:14:56
Speaker
No, it's like, yeah, yeah. Like, this should be, like, regardless of what kind of tone you have, like, this should be playful and fun in at least some way. Like, just the, like, even when you're going through, like, serious stuff with the turtles, like, just the fact that, that this, you know, that, that, you know, the serious drama is being acted out by these mutated turtles that have hands like Nightcrawler,
01:15:23
Speaker
And like, and, you know, for some reason, you know, we're supposed to accept their ninjas but they wear like these, you know, bandanas with eye holes in them and stuff like that, like, like, even at their most serious there is this like, you know,
01:15:43
Speaker
playfully tongue-in-cheeks aspect to them. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I kind of gravitate to that version of them. And I have absolutely no interest in who the turtles are killing at any point. I'm interested in how they live. Yeah, yeah.
01:16:07
Speaker
you know when they're like you know having fun with each other when they're like being siblings you know when they're having arguments with each other you know when they're being like introspective you know like when they're like living out on the farm in Northampton and like and you know kind of filling out that way or when they're making friends with
01:16:29
Speaker
humans or aliens or whoever else, like, they adopt basically everybody they meet, you know, given half the chance. I mean, like, I kind of like the, the found family aspect of the turtles, where they were, you know, they, they were adopted by their father, who was a rat. And, you know,
01:16:49
Speaker
they make friends with humans. And while they get into fights with various people who cross their paths, they're also more interested in making friends. They made friends with this violent vigilante with a hockey mask on his face. And he mellowed out from being around them, that kind of thing. So I like stuff like that.
01:17:18
Speaker
how they live and and now it's and I realize that that I might be talking way too much. No you're you're right and that's the some of the best the best adaptations of the turtles they've managed to find that balance because the the um because if you look back at that the 80 series it
01:17:37
Speaker
It's not that good. It's actually pretty bad. It's just the comic series or the no, no, I talked about the animated series, right? Yeah, it's it's really it's really not that good. It's the turtles don't have much differentiation in their personalities. The you know, it's.
01:17:54
Speaker
It's very just 80s, you know, cheese, animated cheese. But when- Oh, sorry. They do have like differentiation in their personalities, but also like without a lot of complexity to them is- There's some, but it's very, very, very surface level. It's like- Yeah, you know, like, you know, and it can basically be summed up in the, you know, in the theme song. Exactly, yeah, yeah. But if you look at like the 2003 series though,
01:18:24
Speaker
the first two live-action movies or the 2007 animated movie or this movie as well. They do a good job of having these serious aspects of it, but as well as
01:18:41
Speaker
still acknowledging the fact that it's a pretty ridiculous concept that they're working with. And- Oh yeah, yeah. Like a good illustration of that was in the first movie in 1990, where one of the early scenes is Master Splinter trying to calm them down after they've just had their first topside fight. And they're all like, yeah, we've had our first battle.
01:19:11
Speaker
And you know, like they have all this like teenage hyperactivity and he's like, and he wants to like, lean them in meditation. And it's like, you know, Michelangelo is off, is off to the side ordering pizza. And like, you know, he just gets, gets them all calmed down. He closes. Oh, you just cut off.
01:19:32
Speaker
Oh, I did. There you go. Now you're back. Now you're back. Okay. Yeah. We hear a record scratch and he, and his eyes just like widen as, as like we hear, you know, tequila, you know, on a, on a record player and the turtles are dancing to that. And they're like, well, this is like meditation. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
01:19:50
Speaker
You know, it's that kind of thing. And, you know, I think one of the reasons that that movie was, you know, such a mind blowing experience for me was because that was the first time I thought of the turtles as brothers with splinter as their father, because that was actually stated outright at various points. And they had like the entire plot of the movie, like centering around that.
01:20:20
Speaker
you know, the idea that like in an early steam splendor was like, I may not be here. You will have to fend for yourself. And then that became the plot of the movie in a way I wasn't expecting. Yeah. Like, oh, no, they have to figure out how to how to like, like fend for themselves and how to be a family without him in a very, you know, sudden sort of way. And and
01:20:46
Speaker
that was in contrast to the 87 cartoon where, where like, I mean, they were like, I kind of got the sense that they were kind of like, kids who all grew up on the same block, so to speak, you know, like, they weren't necessarily brothers, but they spent all their time together. And they were just like,
01:21:03
Speaker
play together in the same block because that was a point of reference I had growing up with kids who lived on the same block. It was that sort of thing. And even in that cartoon,
01:21:18
Speaker
Splinter would be constantly referring to the turtles as my sons. But for some reason, I never really got the sense it was anything more than he was their sensei and not so much their father. And then the live action movie just made that explicit and then I couldn't done see it.
01:21:43
Speaker
Like, oh, oh, that's interesting. Yeah. And so like that just became the version of the turtles that I that I saw. And I do like, you know, getting back to, you know, getting back to this movie, they, you know, they made sure to include that as as an element to the story. And there was this contrast in how the and how the Bat family operates and how the turtles operate because
01:22:12
Speaker
You know, Batman and the sidekicks, you know, they are a family and, and, you know, like, but in a way that like, it's kind of
01:22:24
Speaker
implied, but not so much stated outright, you know, because like, uh, you know, Batman is kind of the father figure, but also, you know, like Alfred is the grandfather and then, you know, his kids are the, uh, are the various Robins and the various bat girls, et cetera, et cetera. Right.
01:22:43
Speaker
And, and only recently did he have a Robin who's act who is like biological kid and by him. And then, you know, here he comes along and he's this like, you know, utterly entitled, you know, little shit who's, who's like, you know,
01:23:00
Speaker
My mother's Talia, my father's Batman. So, you know, this is my inheritance. It's like, I am Robin. And then, you know, like the other, you know, Robin's former and otherwise are just looking at him like, no, that's not how this works. You have to earn this.
01:23:16
Speaker
And also you're being insufferable right now quit it. And also that is something else I like about this is there about this movie is the the the depiction of Damien because like he is so hilarious in this movie as this like is this like
Comic References and Easter Eggs
01:23:35
Speaker
little kid who was just basically affronted by everything around him, especially the turtles very existence, you know, like, and I love Michelangelo's like, first exposure to him where he's like, perched on top of the Tyrannosaurus Rex in the bat cave, while wearing one of Batman's like cape and cowl combos, you know, just like,
01:24:01
Speaker
Basking in in how awesome everything is and then Robin shows up and is about to kick Michelangelo's ass and Michelangelo's responses.
01:24:15
Speaker
so funny and then like a short fight ensues and then like Michael Angelo just like ends up like basically sitting on Robin with his head with his like head limbs like tucked into his shell and like Robin's on the ground like kind of throwing a temper tantrum like get off me. What I especially liked about those is that the
01:24:39
Speaker
the the contrast between them and because of how how similar those characters are and their upbringing like they're both raised by these martial arts masters except the difference is that the turtles had each other and they also you know splinter actually loved them and cared about them enough to let them be kids whereas Rachelle Gould did not have that same thing with um with Damien and that really came through very well I thought whereas like Damien is
01:25:09
Speaker
You see this kind of like struggle with him you know he's a kid he want there's a part of him that wants to be a kid that wants to poop off but he's got this lifetime of upbringing and discipline, so that even so like at the end I love that scene at the end when. Batman reveals that he bought pizza for everybody and then all the turtles you know just jump they start digging in.
01:25:28
Speaker
And then Damien's got this kind of wistful look on his face, but he's trying to hold himself back. And then Batman gives him, gives him a slice of pizza himself and just like gives him permission to be a kid for the first time.
01:25:40
Speaker
Yeah. That scene where, uh, where like, uh, Michelangelo is in the Batmobile and just having the most, uh, ADHD freakout possible as he's like pushing every button in the distance. Uh, uh, Robin is, is watching, it is like watching like all kinds of like fireworks and projectiles just more from the Batmobile. It's like, I wanted to push all the buttons.
01:26:05
Speaker
You know, it was so funny. And and I love the just the kind of like low key bromance that that Damien ends up having with Raphael, where they're kind of like there's kind of like off to the side, just kind of like wordlessly, just kind of like chilling, you know, and and, you know, Donatello and and
01:26:28
Speaker
That girl instantly hit it off because they're off to the side at the science lab, coming up with a retro mutagen and debating the appropriateness of the term ooze. And then when they show off their results, it's like, it's perfectly safe, so don't worry. And then that girl's like,
01:26:53
Speaker
maybe worry a little because there's still a chance you could die from this and then and then like Davian and Raphael are like uh no get that away from me and look you know Davian's like I agree with the I agree with the turtle stand over there. Well also there's the other little reference to Batman comic books with Oracle saying or Bakko saying that her her screen name is Oracle
01:27:18
Speaker
Right, yeah, I did notice that. And I was actually surprised that they didn't do the gag of Donatello's screen name being, like, being Does Machines 84, because that's what it is in the IDW comics. Oh, right, yeah, yeah. But they did the...
01:27:44
Speaker
they did the does machines gag elsewhere in the in the in the movie. So I guess they didn't want to repeat themselves. Yeah, like, I think it was like Bostaff fan or something. Bostaffs are awesome or something like that. Yeah. So yeah, they but I was just thinking that gag was like right.
01:28:04
Speaker
there because that was a that was a gag that they've used that they've used previously and they're not shy about this sort of thing. Right. Well, I also love the the post credit scene where you have it, which is kind of a nod to the second live action movie with with Shredder being infected by the by in this case, it was the Joker's bomb. But in the in the second movie, it was the year to use. So yeah. And well, the little they kept the fact that he's got he was scarred by splinters.
01:28:34
Speaker
which came from the first movie. Yeah, yeah, like, yeah, a lot of depictions of the shredder have that facial scarring which...
01:28:47
Speaker
they might've actually started in the, I could be wrong, but it might've actually started in the 1990 movie. I believe so, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Cause I don't think that was a thing previously. And like it certainly wasn't in the, in the 87 cartoon because he would take off his face plate, you know, on a, on a semi-regular basis or once in a while. And he'd just be this, this Japanese guy with an unscarred face. But yeah, like they- Voiced by uncle Phil from,
01:29:16
Speaker
Fresh Prince. Yeah, yeah, James Avery. Yeah, like I like I'm sure the look of my face was priceless. The first time I found out it was the same actor. I'm like, what? Yeah, you know, but he yeah, he did he did such a he did such a a a
01:29:34
Speaker
Yeah, he was so memorable in that role. And he brought he brought so much like comedy and nuance to it to the point where it was actually kind of a disappointment in the in the in the 90s and 1991 movie where there were like, you know, Shredder was had like the deepest, most, you know, intimidating voice possible. Money cannot buy the honor you have gained here. You know, it's just like
01:30:03
Speaker
okay great you know although i will say oh i did like the i did think it was kind of funny the the uh bed where it is like uh like the foot clan or your family i am your father and it's like okay yes we know you're leaning into darth vader here yeah yeah you get it okay uh so i think that's about um
Martial Arts Choreography and Critique
01:30:28
Speaker
or about the end of time we have for today. So do you have any final things you wanted to say about this movie? OK, final things about this movie. Let's see. Something I didn't touch on was the martial arts choreography, which they spend a lot of time and care on. They had an entire bonus feature documentary on it about the way they staged the martial arts and a lot of the thought that they
01:30:58
Speaker
Put into it. That was that was really cool. Like I think my I think one of my yes I think my my all-time favorite thing that they did in that movie was like the one-on-one sword duel between Leonardo and Rachelle ghoul Yeah, it was just freakin cool because that was like, you know samurai swordsmanship versus like like European and kind of like and like
01:31:24
Speaker
and South Asian like fencing and stuff like that. And they even included a thing which, and they include like Leonardo actually stepping on Rachel Gould's foot to break his stance, which is something ninjas have been known to do, where they're like confronted with a more rigid and formalized sort of style. They'll just be like, okay, how can I upset this stance that you have? I'm gonna step on your foot.
01:31:54
Speaker
Like that was a fun touch. So yeah, I liked a lot of the choreography that they did. I really liked the animation. Something that I did, I think my one complaint about this movie was the fact that they kind of...
01:32:14
Speaker
brought out the levels of like gore and violence from like other DC animated movies you know like there was like at least one beheading and you know there was there was some like gore and stuff like that and it's just like
01:32:29
Speaker
This is like, I appreciate that this is kind of the thing you do these days that will be animation, but this is really flying in the face of the rest of this movie like this, like it sticks out like a sword.
01:32:45
Speaker
Like you didn't need to have beheadings and stuff like that in this movie, especially because kids are going to want to see this movie. They're going to want to see this
Batman and Mutagen Bomb Storylines
01:33:00
Speaker
very cartoony animated movie of the turtles, you know, teaming up with and fighting Batman, you know, and also I really did like the, the, the, what do you call it? Oh, the, the
01:33:15
Speaker
Batman's rogues gallery that had been all mutated into animal hybrids. They had a lot of fun with that. It was really cool. They're even doing something similar in the current comics that are published by IDW.
01:33:32
Speaker
a storyline that's basically mutant town where a where there's this kind of like terrorist attack with this mutagen bomb that was like set up there was like set off at a political rally and it ended up like releasing this this you know releasing mutagen in like this cloud format that ended up you know blanketing the the
01:34:00
Speaker
east side of New York and uh oh yeah sorry and I will I will wrap this up but uh yeah they uh they
01:34:08
Speaker
Um, yeah, they, uh, basically, you know, citizens of New York are, are, have become these animal hybrids. And it's this like long storyline that they're doing, which I highly recommend people check out. But yeah, like, um, this is one of my favorite things that is, that has come out in the past, uh, few years. And I want, and, uh, I was, um,
01:34:31
Speaker
I even submitted it for like, I believe it was the episode 50 that you guys were doing. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. Yeah. The audio commentary. Just just to see Derek Ferguson's like reaction to to like this and particularly the way Michelangelo experiences Gotham City. And so and yeah. So yeah, I think Derek would have gotten a kick out of this movie.
Reflections on the Movie's Appeal to Derek Ferguson
01:34:53
Speaker
He because we did the we did we did do the first the first Ninja Turtles movie and he ended up
01:34:59
Speaker
uh, finding a lot of things he liked about that. And so, and he also likes the, the more lighthearted depictions of Batman and like the brave and the bold and stuff like that. So, so I think he would have, if we had ever gotten around to doing this before you pass, he would have definitely gotten a kick out of this movie, I think. Absolutely. Yeah. And all right. Well, that should be about it for me. So I'm not going to take up any more of your time.
Guest's Social Media and Fan Fiction
01:35:22
Speaker
Yeah. So, um, why don't you tell people where they can find you online?
01:35:26
Speaker
Okay. Uh, I am on Twitter at H R streaming. Um, and that is a, uh, that is a reference to a, uh, to a YouTube, uh, channel that I have that, uh, that, uh, was basically me. Um, well, I, like, I kind of still have it. I just haven't really, I haven't updated that in quite a while, but I was doing like, uh, reactions to stuff online and also like a video game playthroughs and stuff like that. And, uh,
01:35:55
Speaker
But, you know, I did that like a couple of years ago. But it's still on YouTube if you want to search for that. And also another thing to plug is I'm still doing fan fiction of Marvel Super Heroes and it's a fan fiction community called Marvel Crossroads.
01:36:26
Speaker
Marvelcrossroads.wordpress.com and I've been doing that for a few years. I'm basically running the site and I'm writing X-Men and Amazing Spider-Man and a few other things. So yeah, you can check that out.
Podcast Future Episodes and Closing Remarks
01:36:40
Speaker
Okay, great. Well, Dave, thanks so much for coming by and we'll have to come back on another time to talk about something else. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I'd love to do that. So yeah, we should brainstorm.
01:36:52
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Thanks so much for watching. Thanks so much for listening. Superherocinephiles.com is the website, SuperCinemapod on both Twitter and Instagram. Please sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify anywhere you get your podcasts. If you're interested in being a guest on the show, use the contact form over on the website. Again, Superherocinephiles.com. That does it for now. And I believe the next episode, we're going to have a guest talk about Black Widow.
01:37:20
Speaker
So keep an eye out for that and we'll talk to you later.
01:37:46
Speaker
If you buy or rent any movies through the Amazon links at our site, it helps support the show. Please be sure to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you for listening. And as always,
01:38:16
Speaker
Good night. Good evening. God bless.