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Creativity and Trauma w/ Mae Wagner
15 Plays1 year ago
Today I’m joined by Mae Wagner, an author, speaker, advocate, trauma mentor, and community builder. We discuss what it means to use creativity to process trauma by helping identify harmful coping mechanisms, find agency, and listen to our intuition. Mae says that creativity allows us to shed light on parts of ourselves that thrive in darkness, paving the way for healing and self-discovery.
We also talk about Mae’s own relationship to creativity and the freedom that came with taking her own advice she’d been giving to clients for years: Yes, she too was creative and was allowed to delve into her messy creativity without the pressure of perfection. 🤯 To learn more about Mae’s work or to purchase her memoir, head to rainydayinmay.com or find her on Instagram @rainydayinmay.
References
We Can Do Hard Things Podcast w/ Glennon Doyle
Presence: Bringing Your Boldest Self to Your Biggest Challenges by Amy Cuddy
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Ugly Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to the Ugly Podcast. I'm your host, Lauren Alexander, she, they, and this is the place where creatives are encouraged to make messy, ugly art and let go of perfectionism.
00:00:14
Speaker
I started this podcast with my creative partner, Emerson, and we've since grown into our businesses. And this podcast is now evolving into a space where I interview other creatives to discuss our creative processes and how we navigate the mental mind field of creativity. This podcast serves as a reminder that you and your art get to be whatever the hell you want to be, ugly and all.
Meeting Mae Wagner
00:00:41
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Ugly Podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Today I am joined by an author, speaker, advocate, trauma mentor, and community builder. She reached out to me after my recording with Lisa Green. I love making these connections with other creatives and meeting new people. So welcome. Can you please state your name and your pronouns? Absolutely. My name is Mae Wagner and my pronouns are she, her.
00:01:11
Speaker
Amazing. Thank you. Um, I'm really excited to get to talk to you in person. I mean, I've, I've been following you on Instagram for awhile. I think like we've interacted like here and there, like a, a like here, a comment there, but it's fun to actually talk to you, uh, face to face and over screen, obviously. Um, yeah. Yeah. I love it. Thanks for having me. I absolutely am a geek for.
00:01:36
Speaker
just connecting with other people, specifically other creatives, it's the best thing ever. So I love the opportunity. So thank you. Yeah, it feels so good. I was taking a moment to kind of just stare out the window and reflect before we jumped
Creativity as a Universal Love Letter
00:01:51
Speaker
on here. And I was thinking about, you know, like why I started this podcast and
00:01:57
Speaker
I realize it's really kind of a love letter to my three years ago self, I guess. And every year before that, but like, there's this so much time that I didn't understand how creative, like what creativity had to do with me. And then as I start to kind of dive into my creative self, it was like, oh my gosh, everybody has this. And this is so special and unique and wonderful. And how cool is it that
00:02:27
Speaker
you can just do it at any time and in any way and at any skill level. So yeah, I'm just so grateful for this podcast and grateful for you for joining me. Yeah, I love I love that. That you said that the love letter to yourself and it really this conversation of creativity. I love that you put this out there because it's so hard so many people believe as they're like deep in the grind of whatever they think they're supposed to do that they're not creative people and
00:02:56
Speaker
We all are. We are all inherently creative and we are our best selves when we're creating. But getting to that point is often really terrifying and overwhelming and feels just complicated because we're expected to do everything perfectly and that bleeds into our creativity. So I love your mission and I love what you're putting out there because we need to work together as creatives to combat that misconception.
00:03:21
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. And it feels so much better when you hear other people of like, oh wait, these are creative people and they also have this horrible feeling called perfectionism where that paralyzes them and you know, yeah, it's so normal. And yeah, it's all part of the process.
00:03:38
Speaker
But let's kind of dive into some of these questions. I've started asking this to I think pretty much every guest that joins me because I think it's so interesting to see kind of the difference between where you are now and kind of how you were raised and what role creativity had in your life. So what was your relationship to creativity like when you were younger?
Childhood Memories and Creative Identity
00:03:58
Speaker
So as a small child, it was not great. Um, I distinctly remember having this just brilliant, vivid imagination and wanting to be like a storyteller and create worlds. And I was very little, single digit age, probably on the lower end. And I remember coloring with my mom and she never did things like that with me. So I was so excited, right? Like she's sitting down and she's doing this with me and it's so great. And we're just going to make something incredible. And I colored a porky pig.
00:04:27
Speaker
coloring page purple, the pig purple for her because purple was her favorite color. And I was trying to express to her like, this is so special and precious for me. And I want to give you this. And she was like, that's so stupid. Pigs aren't purple. And she got up and left. And I distinctly remember breaking, even though I don't think in my single digit age, I could comprehend what that meant. But I look back and I remember breaking. And from that point until probably adulthood, I really did not
00:04:57
Speaker
beyond the occasional angsty teen poetry and knowing I wanted to be an author, I didn't identify creatively. But I can see how it found its way into parts of my life, like decorating and things like that. But I was so just, I could not identify with that anymore. That broke for me. And so, yeah, it was a very controlled and heavily denied part of my younger years. Yeah.
00:05:26
Speaker
I hear that a lot with people, and that was similar to me. As soon as I knew what grades were and that I had to get A's and B's were unacceptable, it was like, oh, well then everything else, including all of these creative things, those don't matter. I'm not allowed to do those because those aren't perfect. There's no getting an A in that, so that's not me, and that's not something that I can do.
00:05:53
Speaker
It's so heartbreaking. I just want to send some love out to our little baby selves. Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. Yeah. So then when did you start to kind of move away from that idea of like my creativity has to be this thing or I guess what was the evolution from there?
Embracing Imperfection in Creativity
00:06:21
Speaker
honestly, it probably happened like last year that I realized I, and again, like I'm a writer, I've been writing almost my whole life. So I never lumped that into creativity because it was always this like structured way that I as a person, you know, can inhale and exhale. Like it just was part of who I was. So it wasn't like me braving something creatively, but it probably was within the last year, maybe 18 months that I really, it dawned on me like I can do something
00:06:50
Speaker
creative and lose myself in it and it can look like absolute garbage and it doesn't matter and it was life-changing just this reality that oh I've always I had the list of I've always wanted to I've always wanted to play an instrument I've always wanted to paint I've always wanted to I always wanted to I've always and I couldn't do any of them because I wouldn't dare do any of them because they would be terrible and I couldn't accept that it would take time to learn and so yeah then last year I just
00:07:18
Speaker
really realize like it finally clicked. Like who cares if it looks terrible? Have you looked at some famous people's art? Like, isn't that great? Right. Yeah, people love that. And like, that's not the point of art. And then, yeah, it changed. And now I will, I'll do anything. I'll do, I'll do it all. And it's terrible. And I don't care because that's not the point. Yeah.
00:07:41
Speaker
Oh, that's incredible. Was there any kind of influence at that time that triggered that? Or was it just kind of seeing, like you mentioned, other artists and seeing their process and being like, oh, I can do that too? I think it was definitely that. It was that the Instagram community, Instagram has been so beneficial in so many ways, just connecting with so many different creatives. And I don't know why, but other platforms, for me, never really caved to that.
00:08:11
Speaker
for whatever reason, I just like stumbled upon this like, artistic wave happening probably coming out of like the second year of the pandemic. And, you know, we all saw in the pandemic how art really kept us alive. And so that actually may have been when I just started realizing like, this is super important. And then organically, it became to you can do this too. And I just would watch people put art out there.
00:08:36
Speaker
that wasn't perfect or anything really, like just some colors on some cardstock and be like, look what I made. And I'm like, wow, that's amazing. Wait, you could do that too. And or people admitting like painting these beautiful pictures and being like, yeah, I took it from Pinterest. It printed it out, sketched it out and painted it. And I'm like, oh, so that you can do that? You don't have to like create it in your head. And so then
00:09:01
Speaker
Just that honesty, the vulnerability of what art really is on Instagram really made me start to wonder, hmm, how capable could I be to create things that I love and enjoy doing it? Because the process is what's important. And it's the process that makes you love it. So not the beauty of it or the perfection of it.
00:09:20
Speaker
Yes. I'm so grateful for people who are honest about the creative
Processing Trauma through Creativity
00:09:24
Speaker
process. And also, yeah, that idea that, oh, I have to look at this blank page and I have to come up with something all on my own to fill it with. Like, oh, you don't, you can color a bowl of fruit. That's what people have been doing with art for thousands of years. You can just paint what you see or, you know, follow a template, do a paint by number. There are so many options to open up your creativity. Exactly.
00:09:51
Speaker
Um, so what has been your experience using creativity to process and recover from trauma? You mentioned, um, in the bio, you sent me that you're a trauma mentor. What does that, what does that entail? Um, so as a trauma mentor, I just really walked through, I walk alongside specifically women who are just navigating like growth from really hard things. And sometimes it's stuff that happened many, many years ago that just hasn't
00:10:19
Speaker
you know, they haven't ever really worked through. And ironically, I would always encourage to my clients, creativity, because I really believe it healed. But that was just something that I disassociated, kind of like how I disassociated writing is creativity. This was for them in their journey. And this will benefit you journaling, doodling, sketching stuff out, using color, bringing all of these creative aspects in.
00:10:49
Speaker
when you're doing things, you know, sensory engaging with music while you take hands to paper and feel that tactile process. Like all of these things I completely encouraged, but was I sitting there thinking like, I'm having a really hard day and I should put the music on and just sketch. No, I wasn't. I held myself. I was held to those standards of perfection and everyone else was so creative and I could look at like somebody
00:11:14
Speaker
put like a colored pencil, like crazy insanity on a piece of paper. And I'd be like, that's beautiful. That's so I can see the process and whatever. But it was not, it was not for me until, until it was. And now I'm much happier. And I feel better when I work with clients creatively, because I'm like, we, we can go through this together instead of we can go through this whole process together, but you should be more creative. Right. So now it's, now it's us really together.
00:11:43
Speaker
more. Yeah, it just gave me more connection organically with my clients, which I appreciate. Yeah, I love that. What do you think? So on the topic of this, like,
00:11:56
Speaker
perfectionism and using creativity, specifically with trauma. So one thing I noticed for myself was when I started writing down things about my past that had been traumatic for me, that perfectionism, I wanted to
00:12:17
Speaker
I don't know. It was, it was so hard to actually put those things on paper because the perfectionism was like, no, but like that has to, it was like not perfectionism about what I was putting on the page, but rather like my life and keeping my life contained. And like, even though I wasn't actually telling people what happened, I was putting it on a page that was external from my head. And it was like my perfectionism was like, no, you need to control that. But.
00:12:45
Speaker
actually in the process of writing it down, it's so freeing. And like, how do we let go of that perfectionism in small moments to then be able to actually use creativity to process the trauma, you know? Sure. Yeah, I think that the key there is identifying it because what looks like how perfectionism comes out on the voice it uses for you is going to be different for somebody else. And like,
00:13:14
Speaker
For me, my own like perfectionist gut reaction would be to second, not second guess, but just like shadow, cast like a shadow of doubt. Like, yeah, but it wasn't as bad as this person over here. Or yeah, it could have been like this. And it took me a really long time to realize like, no, that is just this continued pattern of self coping abuse that I've had my whole life that was, you know, I learned from the trauma.
00:13:42
Speaker
And this just, it's just wearing a different dress today. And so we're going to address that. And I really think that just coming to that point of identifying like, no, this isn't right. This is a perfectionist, a pressure, a carried over voice from someone else or whatever it looks like. That is just continuing the lie and the garbage that stems from the trauma and that
00:14:06
Speaker
seeing it as everything, once we, that's my biggest, I think life philosophy is light, right? Once we shine a light on something that is, that thrives in the darkness, it kind of kills it. It's done. And then you know, like, okay, so now I know I'm aware and I know what this is and I've given it a face and I've given it a voice and I've given it the name. And will we still deal with it? Absolutely. But we're way more equipped because now we know.
00:14:33
Speaker
And so when it comes to creating, it's easier to be like, Hey, you stop. I'm not afraid of you anymore. I'm not held to your pressure and standards anymore. It's just, yeah, that's not it. We see it and it's there and it's a corner or it's like hiding in the corner, but it's not keeping us captive anymore.
00:14:53
Speaker
Yeah. And as you were saying that I immediately thought like when you use creativity and you're putting something into the physical world, it automatically is now touching light. Yeah. It's not in your head anymore, which is surrounded by your skull in darkness. It's now in the light. You can see it. You can touch it. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:21
Speaker
It's like giving, it's giving our insights that we've held. So it feels like protected, but it's not usually, um, it's giving it life. Right. Cause now we can touch it. We can see it. We can smell it. We can, all of the sensory responses to it. Um, it becomes something of its own and that's a really beautiful cathartic process for sure.
00:15:45
Speaker
We have this idea that everything we do has to be good or have value. This belief leads us to burn out. It can hold us back from creating altogether. But in my Ugly Art 101 course, I break down these restrictive beliefs and lead you through exercises that intentionally subvert perfectionism and bring playfulness back into your creative process. You can get the first day absolutely free by going to my website, scribeandsunshine.com and signing up on the homepage. Join me in my weird ugly art revolution. Back to the show.
00:16:19
Speaker
What do you think is something that people most often misunderstand about creativity and trauma and using those together? I think that with people, people often misunderstand what creativity is. And I think that depending on what our life has been like, because we all have trauma, the trauma just enables that by keeping us, you know, trauma is just
00:16:45
Speaker
I don't know, can we swear on this podcast? Oh, yeah, go ahead. Trauma is a bitch. And like, it loves to keep us as minimized and separated and isolated and shameful as possible. Like, that's what it exists for. That's why it's there. And typically, everything that trauma itself teaches us is wrong. And we just go with it because that's what we know. And part of that is this box of what
00:17:13
Speaker
creativity looks like. And it's being a painter or being a drawer or an artist or just all of these things, but it's not simple things like cooking or just standing in your kitchen and having a dance party for one person. Like that is creativity. It's like sitting down and, um, you know, just, I mean, everything is creative, however you do it. And we all have these real little meticulous patterns of things that we do.
00:17:40
Speaker
And breaking out of that pattern is creativity. Anytime we rebel against that natural tendency, that's a little bit creative. And I think that that's the most important thing to understand is that we can step away from that weird nature that feels like this is how it has to be. This is just the way that it has to be and do something different. That is engaging with our creative being. That is connecting and allowing ourselves
00:18:09
Speaker
to live outside of this thing that exists because of hard things we've been through. And I think that a lot of people don't understand that. And it's hard to understand because, again, we've been thinking the way that the trauma wanted us to think. Yeah. I think one thing that my former co-host Emerson has taught me is about using improvisation in your life.
00:18:36
Speaker
and looking at your day-to-day and instead of feeling stuck in your routine in the way you think in whatever your situation is, looking at it from a lens of improvisation and what can I, what can I do right now? Like what do I have agency over right now?
00:18:58
Speaker
that I can switch up. Can I go dance in my kitchen or go feed the hummingbirds and daydream while I watch them eat? What is going to thrive in my soul right now?
00:19:15
Speaker
That's like you said, that's that creativity that you can find anywhere in your life, everywhere in your life. And that's where healing comes in too, is realizing that we have agency to express ourselves in different ways and shift up our life in surprising ways, in ways that we hadn't thought of before. Yeah, I think that's so beautiful. And the agency is the key.
00:19:44
Speaker
We, that's part of like that trauma voice is you don't have an agency. You don't are either not worth advocating for or you just, it's, it's so easy to advocate and represent other people, but ourselves, like you just feel that worthlessness and powerlessness that you're right.
Stepping Out of Comfort Zones
00:20:01
Speaker
And, um, that's the key is be spontaneous, improvise, like do things differently, step outside of the norm, because that's really where life is. Life exists outside of our comfort zone. It's so cliche, but it's so true.
00:20:14
Speaker
Yeah, it absolutely does. Because 99% of our comfort zone isn't actually comfortable. And that's like with people, that's the biggest thing they come to is, you know, they make these terrible choices or they're stuck in these horrible patterns they hate. And they say, you know, that's where you're comfortable. I'm not comfortable there. Well, you are because you keep doing it. So we misunderstand comfort, for sure. Yeah.
00:20:40
Speaker
This is something they talk about on Glenn and Doyle's podcast a lot of like choosing the hard. Are you going to stay in the hard that you're suffering in currently or are you going to try the hard that is expansive and creative and full of possibilities? Which hard do you want?
00:20:58
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Absolutely. One thing I talked about with some of my fellow editors in the freelance editors club is kind of the difference between toxic positivity and having agency and making choices that are good for yourself in the moment. And one thing, because we just read presence, I can't remember the author's name at the top of my head,
00:21:27
Speaker
It's the person who talks about power posing. And so we were talking about power posing and kind of this idea of, well, it's hard to focus on it when you are in that really negative headspace and like, OK, well, I'm just going to power pose and everything's going to be OK. And it's like, well, it's not that. It's not that like I'm going to go do something creative and it's going to fix all my problems. But it's more of.
00:21:54
Speaker
I'm worth doing this thing. I deserve to stand a little bit taller and take up some space right now. I deserve to go splash color on a page and make my day a little bit brighter with color. And it's that shift of, it's not this toxic positive, like everything's okay, here I go, doing my creative thing and it's gonna fix everything. It's like, no, I deserve to do this even when I'm feeling
00:22:21
Speaker
this other kind of way I deserve to create this life that I'm proud of. Yeah, that's so beautiful. And I mean, with the toxic positivity route, like it's not going to change it anyway, because you're still feeling negative, all you're doing is feeding negativity into whatever it is you're pretending to create, you're not creating anything, because that's the release, the whole point of creation is release, letting go of whatever it is. And so yeah, that's the fake it till you make it.
00:22:49
Speaker
mentality. It's like that served us a while that had its place in time when we could realize like, oh, so I can do this. Like everyone does it. There's opportunity for everyone. Life is at a pie. All of those little things that everyone says now, but now we're past that. Mental health and society-wise, we're past the fake it till you make it.
00:23:13
Speaker
We're not just going to smile anymore, and it'll all get better. We're not just going to think grateful things, and it'll be a great day. We've learned to do that, and that was an important step to get us to the point where now we're just going to be real and honest. And part of that honesty is, you're right, saying, I deserve this. I deserve to have this, and I deserve to feel this, and I deserve to process through this, and have beautiful things, and do this act intentionally. And that's where the real power is. Absolutely.
00:23:43
Speaker
Do you have advice for people who are interested in exploring their creativity in these ways?
Intuitive Leadership in Creativity
00:23:50
Speaker
Where do you even start? Especially if you're in this perfectionistic mindset, you are stuck in your trauma. Where do you go from there? I'm such an intuitive person. I really believe in following your intuitive leadership. And I think that we all know
00:24:11
Speaker
it's just we're not used to listening to ourselves. And so I think that keying in and listening, not to the voice that says we're afraid or we're too smart or we're too grown up or we're too, you know, if your voice is saying you're too whatever to do this, that's not your intuition. Like honing in and listening to that little voice inside this, I was like, I really do want to do this. I really, I think we know, we know what's going to work for us. We know what we'd like. And then just keeping in check with that,
00:24:41
Speaker
with that voice as we're working through art and creating. And I really think that whatever is supposed to come out is gonna come out. And it's gonna look like however it needs to look for you. And even just a little bit at the end of that task, you're gonna be a little bit different and a little bit better. And it just gets, it's like practice, right? It just gets, it gets easier, it gets more natural. And yeah, I just think that honing in and listening to that
00:25:10
Speaker
that intuitive thing, not what everyone else says you should be doing or whatever. Creativity is whatever you, works for you and you want it to be. Yeah. So immediately my next question was going to be how do you find that intuitive voice? And then I had a flashback to when I was in high school and my high school theater was going to be putting on Sweeney Todd and I loved Sweeney Todd, the movie. It had just come out and
00:25:40
Speaker
I wanted to be in that place so bad. I was so intrigued and so excited about it, but I was terrified. And I shoved that voice down and was like, nope, we're not doing that. That is too risky. No, thank you. And so then as I was thinking, like, how do you listen to that intuitive voice? I'm like, well, we already know those times that we didn't listen. You can remember.
00:26:07
Speaker
those times when you regretted not doing something. So getting back in touch with that voice is a matter of just remembering those times and feeling when that comes up now. Yeah, absolutely. Like you said, it was too risky. There's that word again, too. It's such a debilitating word. Anytime that your inner dialogue is telling you something is too whatever,
00:26:36
Speaker
That is not like, nope, that's not what it is. The feeling, the fear and the excitement, that's what we're chasing. That's what we want. That's where, that's where the sweet spot is. And so, yeah, we know you're right. We all know the times we didn't listen and we wish we would have. And, and that goes both ways. Like there have been, you know, dangerous situations where you have a voice saying like, you shouldn't follow through with this and we minimize it. And we're like, no, you're being too paranoid. You're being too,
00:27:05
Speaker
whatever. And it works both ways. Like we know the times we should have listened to ourselves and we didn't. And so when we start listening to ourselves, that voice becomes clearer and our connection to that voice will become stronger. Yeah, that word too can be like a little red flag of like, hey, this is what is happening right now. Listen a little closer. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
00:27:31
Speaker
So good. I want to write, I'm writing this down too. Well, not right now. I will when I'm editing it, but it's like two equals red flag. Um, and that's like one of the benefits of journaling too is when you're thinking of these things and you're journaling about it, you can catch those little words that you might not have noticed when they're just running through your head. Yeah. Yeah. We hear our voice more than anyone else's like all that stuff in our head. We hear it 24 seven.
00:27:59
Speaker
for the whole of our life. So we have no idea really what kind of terrible, abusive thoughts are going through our brain towards ourselves that keep us limited because it's what we know as our comfort zone. Again, it's what we know. It is part of whatever. We don't ever sit there and automatically say like, oh my goodness, I can't believe that my brain said that to me. That's so offensive. If somebody else said it out loud, we'd be offended.
00:28:26
Speaker
But inside, we just continue this re-abuse that's been going on since we were little because that's what we know. And it takes a lot of work to work outside of that.
Journaling and Internal Thoughts
00:28:37
Speaker
But again, the whole shedding light and bringing it out and putting it down on paper and working through it is, I think, the best and healthiest way to process it. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And finding community of people that make you feel safe doing that. Yes. Yeah. Absolutely.
00:28:56
Speaker
Let's actually touch on community because you run a writing community. I run a writing community. What made you start your writing community? Honestly, it was the pandemic and I had been freelance writing for years, not doing what I wanted to be doing, but that was my excuse, right? Well, I can't work on my book because I'm so busy doing this entertainment stuff. Of course.
00:29:24
Speaker
Then the entertainment industry came to a 2020 halt. And then I was left with myself. And I was like, well, I guess it's time to work on my book. And what I realized was that a great distraction is connecting with other writers. Like, why would I work on my book if I can talk to other people who understand this isolating experience of being a writer? And I was invited to a writing group. And I was like, oh, this is so exciting. I mean, like an online one.
00:29:54
Speaker
and you know this is so exciting I would love to do that and then they gave me the cost and I was again reminded uh 2020 lost my job like even if I hadn't lost my job I'm all for investing in yourself but it was really really up there and I was like I can do this so I was talking to my friend who was a writer and I was like
00:30:18
Speaker
I could do that. I could create something like that. Not honestly believing I would do it. I'm all for like, I will jump in with an idea and I will go for it until it doesn't work. And then I'm like, well, I tried. And that's 100% what I thought was going to happen. And so I'm like, I'm like, I'm just going to dive in. I'm going to reach out to a whole bunch of people that I don't know on Instagram because I'm not very connected within this writing community. And I'm going to say, Hey, do you want to give me some money?
00:30:45
Speaker
to come to this writing group and we're going to figure out how to do it together, but you're going to pay me for it. And they're like, sure. And you're like, wait, really? Right. And then, well, then I'm like, for the first, like, we'll do it by quarter. And then I'm like, for the first three months, this is great. It's so fun, but it's going to fizzle out. And then here we are, like going into our third year. And so good. Yeah, it's fantastic. I have looked at the things in my life that I could not have done without that experience, without those connections. And I'm looking at,
00:31:14
Speaker
the things that they have done, the different members in the group and just the inspiration that has come out of it and just how powerful community really is and changed my life. Like it's very much that crutch of before and then now this is, yeah, I would much rather live this way in community and not in that writer isolation. And yeah, it just is maybe the best decision I ever made.
00:31:43
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I relate. We started, uh, we started the writer's home and so I have tried to start a writing community three times now, three times a charm. Like you said, I,
00:31:58
Speaker
I did the thing where I'm like, I have this idea. I'm so excited about it. And then it went nowhere. And then I was like, OK, it's dead to me. And then I tried it one more time. And I was like, it's different this time because I have more knowledge. And I did. But once again, it went nowhere, fizzled out. I was like, OK. And then I met this other person who, Gabby Goodlow, who I just, we vibed instantly. And we're like, you want to start a writing group? I want to start a writing group.
00:32:30
Speaker
And then that's where we ended up coming up with this idea to start this group together. And I agree. Everything about it is it takes away the isolation. Anytime you have those thoughts of like, oh, I don't know if I can keep doing this, the group keeps showing up. And we just keep encouraging each other. And when you do have those times of like, oh, I'm deflated. I just can't do it anymore. They're like, that's OK. We'll be here next week when you're ready.
00:32:59
Speaker
Just because you don't come this time doesn't mean that you are giving up entirely. It's just like, you need a rest and that's okay. And we'll be here next week and we love you, you know? Yeah. It's so empowering. It really is. I, yeah, I couldn't. I don't remember how I lived without, which sounds so dramatic, right? But I don't. I'm like, I don't remember how I would get through a day not knowing that these, these humans that I connect with in one way, shape or form every day.
00:33:29
Speaker
And we've gone through really dark, completely non-authory things together. And I just, I don't... Yeah, I was like, I would never, I would never go back to that.
Community and Combating Isolation
00:33:45
Speaker
Hey writer, are you feeling adrift in your writing practice? Like the word swept you out to sea, but you have no idea where you're going.
00:33:53
Speaker
I'm Lauren. And I'm Gabby. And we're both writers and professional editors who are here to support you on your writing voyage. With The Writer's Helm, you get access to group co-writing sessions, Q&A sessions, our private community chat room, and group coaching calls to help you along no matter what stage of the writing process you're in. Members of our crew have said that they've reconnected with their excitement for writing and feel energized from the support they've received from us and each other.
00:34:18
Speaker
You can sign up for the writer's home at any time, which comes with a one week free trial to make sure that we're the right crew for you. You don't need to navigate these stormy seas alone. Let the writer's home take you to new shores. So what is, or sorry, where is your creative energy directed these days? What are you up to? Um, I am, um, you mentioned it earlier. I am trying painting by numbers. I feel kind of like a child in that I want to try all the things.
00:34:47
Speaker
And so that's what I do. I'm constantly like, Oh, that looks like such a great idea. I'm going to try that. And, um, and some of them, I, they're things cause so many of us have that pull to creativity. And so I can look back at my like 20 years ago and these creative attempts, I would try, but I wouldn't like really put myself in there because I just wanted perfection. And so it was never anything. And so I feel like I'm kind of touring on a tour of my twenties.
00:35:13
Speaker
Like going back and I'm going to try all of these things now with this reckless abandon and we'll see. So I'm doing all of those, all of those things. And then of course still writing, which I am starting to accept as more creative than not, but I didn't, I just separated it for so long and now I'm starting to realize, oh no, this is part of, this is part of that. So I'm trying to challenge myself to write creatively. Recently someone in my, in our corporate game group,
00:35:40
Speaker
started writing poetry by pulling out tarot cards and she would just look at the card and then write a piece about it. And I was like, that's so brilliant. My new project is attempting to have some poetry in it. And so I was like, I'm stealing that. That's brilliant. I'm going to try that just to get the juices flowing a little bit. So yeah, that's where I'm at these days, trying to incorporate some kind of creativity into every day.
00:36:06
Speaker
intentionally because that's my, that's my hang up. I can get into the habit of doing things and then it loses its magic. So I'm trying to be really intentional about how I do things and why. Yeah, that's really smart. I yeah, I'm the same way I get into a habit of it and then it's like, well, the magic's gone. I don't want to do this anymore. But there's no limits with creativity. Like you can change it up in so many different ways.
00:36:33
Speaker
and surprise yourself every time. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, it is. You're right. It's magic. But we are we are such an ingredient of that magic. We have to be willing to surrender to that instead of just like, well, check off the to do list. I painted a picture today. This is right. Great. So
00:36:55
Speaker
Yeah. Is there anything in particular that helps you keep that magic? Is it the jumping around from thing to thing? Is it just finding other people to be inspired by, like in your group? For me, it is the intentionally checking in with myself, which is such a habit now, and I didn't do it for so long, that I just, you know, where am I at today? How am I feeling about work? How am I feeling about life? How am I feeling about relationships, health,
00:37:25
Speaker
What do we genuinely want to find interest in doing today that, you know, what do I want to gain from it?
Engaging with Creativity Daily
00:37:32
Speaker
And just trying to just check in and like kind of interview myself every day and be like, what do we want to do today? Do we just want to dance around like a complete maniac in the kitchen for a while? Like, what, what do we want to do today? So yeah, I take it as it comes. Okay. So.
00:37:54
Speaker
We're kind of nearing the end of this episode. At the end of every episode, I like to ask, what is something ugly you have made recently? This is the ugly podcast. Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. Probably everything I make is ugly. I love embroidery, and I'm terrible at it. And I want so badly to be good at it, because I think it's so beautiful. And I want to be that.
00:38:24
Speaker
friend that no one asked for who sends gifts of embroidered things to them, right? No one asked for that, but I want to be that person anyway. And for someone to just be like, oh my God, she made this for me. It's beautiful. I'm hanging it in my office so I can always be inspired by her. That is literally my secret wish.
00:38:46
Speaker
but it's terrible. It's always terrible. And there's, you see like the little Pinterest thing where it's like on the front, it's the beautiful, but then if you look on the back, it's like crazy knots and tangles. And no, my embroidery is the back on the front and back. So it's terrible, but I keep doing it because I love doing it so much. And I have that dumb idea of what I, so I just will pick up a new project and be like, oh, I'm going to do this. And it's great. And just spending money on these,
00:39:15
Speaker
embroidery projects because and I never feel bad about myself or be myself up about it. I'm just like I love the process of it so much. And this fantasy that I have of it so much that I just keep doing it but it's all pretty dang ugly. So I love that. And that's like, that's the whole thing is just being willing to do that to just make it ugly again and again and again because you like doing it. Yep.
00:39:39
Speaker
I think about embroidery specifically and how there's so many different types of stitches and I follow a bunch of people on Instagram who do embroidery. And there are certain stitches or projects that I look at and I'm like, that came about because somebody really fucked it up. Exactly. Exactly. Yes.
00:39:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think about that all the time. All of the interesting techniques that people use, it's all because they made something bad. And we're like, wait, I like that part of it. I'm going to play with that more. And then they did. Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
00:40:14
Speaker
Yeah, so my ugly thing that I made recently, I started using my friend. My friend made me a color randomizer for Christmas, and it is just a little box with painted blocks.
00:40:30
Speaker
how cool and then I just kind of roll the dice and see what colors I get to play with at that time um and sometimes it's all like the same color or similar colors it's just like a block of purple um but it's been really fun because like I just have to kind of come up with whatever
00:40:50
Speaker
whatever is there, whatever colors it is, it is. And it's a really fun exercise and just kind of letting go of whatever is going to come out onto the page. And yeah, I've been having a lot of fun with those. I love that. And that's so therapeutic because color really is like different colors are keys to different emotions. And especially when you're doing like the rhythmic tactile thing of using the color in art.
00:41:13
Speaker
Like what an incredibly therapeutic process just to see like you don't get to control what's going to come out today. It is going to be whatever part of your inner side turquoise is tapping into or yellow. And that's fantastic. I love it. Maybe ugly, but also really powerful.
00:41:32
Speaker
Yes. Well, and that's actually something that I recently started seeing a new therapist and they use a lot of art. And so one thing that they've been having me do is like, if I'm having a really hard time talking about a difficult topic, they'll have me grab my markers, pick a color for what you're feeling and just take a minute or so to kind of
00:41:57
Speaker
draw out your emotions and that was so interesting and has been really interesting to play with because they'll ask me okay so draw how you're feeling now with the color you're feeling now and then on the next like next to it write down how you would like to feel about this particular thing and choose a color like a different color for that
00:42:18
Speaker
and then we compare the two and kind of see how like well in this thing it's like a lot of energy all like tightened up and then this other thing it's more relaxed and it's like flowing water and I can see how like you want to feel more relaxed about this thing and like how can we kind of channel that into our conversation right now and it's like oh my god it's mind-blowing yeah that's beautiful yeah I love it
00:42:41
Speaker
Well, we are wrapping this up. How can people find you, support you, join your writers group?
Connect with Mae Wagner
00:42:49
Speaker
What have you got going on? Sure. I'm on Instagram the most, honestly. It's like rainy day in May. My website also has information for everything, and it's rainydayinmay.com. So pretty easy. If it's not me and it's rainy day in May, then it's somebody pretending to be me, which is all right. That happens.
00:43:12
Speaker
Unfortunately, too often, but yeah, pretty easy to contact. And I, like I said in the beginning, I love connecting with people so much. It is truly my favorite thing in the whole world. So yeah, I will not be bothered by reaching out. Amazing.
00:43:31
Speaker
Well, thank you so much for joining me and thank you everybody for listening. I hope that you got a lot out of this. I certainly did. I feel really great right now. Keep it ugly, everybody.
00:43:47
Speaker
The Ugly podcast is created by me, Lauren Alexander of Scribe and Sunshine. It is produced and sort of edited, also by me, and written and directed by absolutely nobody. If you like the podcast, be sure to write and leave a review on your preferred platform and share with the creative people in your life. If you're interested in learning more about what I do, head to scribeandsunshine.com to learn more about my Ugly Art 101 course, my perfectionism workshop, my editing services, and the Writer's Helm, which is an online community for writers, co-captain by myself and Gabby Goodlow. As always, keep it ugly.