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083 - Red Sonja (1985)
50 Plays3 years ago
"No man may have me, unless he's beaten me in a fair fight."
Welcome, one and all, to "All About Arnold April"! This month, we're celebrating the Austrian powerhouse himself, Arnold Schwarzenegger, by discussing his unfortunately failed attempts at kicking off franchises. So, to kick things off, we're talking about a film that the man himself personally considers one of the worst of his career! We discuss the career trajectory of Brigitte Nielsen, the atrocious misogyny dripping off of this film, and Stephen makes the mistake of asking Brett about Dungeons and Dragons!
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Transcript
00:00:20
Speaker
I'll seek one for you.
Introduction to The Disenfranchised Podcast
00:00:25
Speaker
Hey, it's the disenfranchised podcast. We're that podcast all about those franchises of one. Those films have fancied themselves full-fledged franchises before falling flat on their face after the first film. I am your host, Stephen Foxworthy. And joining me, as always, the fierce warrior of the Hyborian age, it's my co-host, Brett Wright. Hi, Brett. Hello, Stephen. How are we doing tonight, sir?
00:00:51
Speaker
Uh, I'm pretty tired. Same. Uh, so let's, uh, you know, let's, uh, skin and get up. It's gonna be a punchy episode, everybody. But we, before we, before we get into this movie, Brett, there's a little bit of pomp and circumstance that needs to happen because Brett, I don't know if you're aware of
Theme Month: Arnold April
00:01:11
Speaker
this. I don't know if our listeners are aware of this, but this is the very first episode of our very first theme month of 2022, Brett.
00:01:21
Speaker
holy crap i know what could the theme possibly be i couldn't even begin to imagine all i know is it's not a tumor it's not a tumor at all i was about to say if you're a patron you know already because we just dropped a top five list
00:01:40
Speaker
kind of spoiled the whole theme. That's true. And if you were paying good attention to the clues on Twitter, you might also know as well. But it's all about Arnold April here on the disenfranchised podcast. That's right, an entire month of episodes devoted to the man, the myth, the legend, who is Arnold Schwarzenegger? And for no reason whatsoever. No, other than the fact that April and Arnold both start with A.
00:02:09
Speaker
Yeah, it's not his birthday. He doesn't have a movie coming out. Not at all. It's not some anniversary of anything. We just wanted to talk about Arnold Schwarzenegger. We had some movies on our list, our master list that had Arnold in them, and we're like, you know what might be fun? Let's just devote an entire month to Arnold Schwarzenegger. And we've not done a theme month since last year's spooky-thon, I think, Brad.
00:02:34
Speaker
Yeah, and honestly, I was on the fence. I was like, I don't know. I guess, sure. But then you were like, well, it means we get to talk about Last Action Hero. I was like, you son of a bitch, I'm in. That was 100% pretty much how that conversation went. That'll be coming up down the pipeline, wink.
00:02:56
Speaker
But yeah, so we'll get to talk about a movie that Brett really loves. We'll get to talk about a movie that I kind of like. Actually, I really like it later on this month. And then we'll get to talk about a movie, a couple of movies that we've never seen, including this week's movie, Brett, which is what?
This Week's Movie: 'Red Sonja'
00:03:11
Speaker
We're talking about the Conan Spin-Off? 1985's Red Sonja. 1985's Red Sonja, directed by Richard Fleischer and written by Clive Exton and George McDonald Fraser, based on characters created by Robert E. Howard and starring the man himself, Arnold Schwarzenegger, along with Brigitte Nielsen, Sandal Bergman, Paul L. Smith,
00:03:40
Speaker
Ernie Reyes Jr., Ronald Lacy, and Pat Roach, among many, many others. Those last two are definitely ones we'll be circling back to later in the episode, for sure. But yeah, this is our great kickoff to All About Arnold April. And I don't know about you, Brett, but I am pretty excited about it. I think it's gonna be a good month, and I think this is gonna be a great episode.
00:04:09
Speaker
Well, if this movie is any indication of what we're in store for, Last Action Hero notwithstanding, I'm pretty whelmed.
Arnold Schwarzenegger's Regrets
00:04:19
Speaker
To be fair, the man himself calls this movie one of his worst. Sure, which I get because he was kind of tricked.
00:04:29
Speaker
He was bamboozled. Yeah, we'll get into it. By former subject of this podcast, one Mr. Dino de Laurentiis himself pretty much conned Arnold into co-starring in this movie.
00:04:47
Speaker
Yeah, I told he was just going to do a cameo and then through the magic of editing and shenanigans game a co-starring role. Yep, because Dino kind of cajoled him into being on set for longer than he really needed to be. I guess we won't get into it later. I guess we'll get into it now. Why not? We talk about the history of the movie at the beginning. Come on. That's true. That's true. We do. I mean, we usually get into like the
00:05:13
Speaker
like the history of the franchise and kind of where we are familiarity level and all that
Character Analysis: Kalador vs. Conan
00:05:18
Speaker
with it first. But fuck it, man. Let's do it. So Arnold, man, I don't. Just stop. Just go. Just do it. Just go.
00:05:28
Speaker
So Arnold signs on basically for a glorified cameo. He is, for all intents and purposes, playing Conan in this movie from the Conan the Barbarian and Conan the Destroyer films. But they didn't have the rights to the name, so they call him Kalador instead. So my joke has been pretty consistently that Arnold is playing totally not Conan in this movie, even though he is
00:05:56
Speaker
pretty much playing Conan in this movie. And he signs on essentially as a favor to Dino De Laurentiis, who is a producer on whose films he had worked prior to this. And so he signs on as a favor. He's expecting to be on set maybe a week and ends up being on for four weeks instead.
00:06:17
Speaker
And instead of actually, you know, being a glorified cameo, he's a full fledged co-star and shock of all shocks, the the top build actor in this movie. And so he pretty much decides, you know what? No, I'm done. And so as a result, he kind of terminates his contract with Dino De Laurentiis as a result. Parnet intended.
00:06:45
Speaker
No, just a happy accident. Oh, OK. I don't even know what the pun was. That's how out of it I am right now. He terminated his contract. Oh, there it was. There it was. No, actually, that was just a happy accident. That was wow. I am I am out of it, dear listener. And it's going to be a fun episode. I can pretty much guarantee it. So, yeah, no, I mean, but that's again, this is
00:07:11
Speaker
For all intents and purposes, a kind of Conan spinoff, I would suppose. The character, so Arnold had been in the two previous Conan films, which were Conan the Barbarian and Conan the Destroyer, which are essentially his kind of two first big forays into American cinema. I mean, he had done.
00:07:34
Speaker
Hercules in New York as Hercules. He had been in the Jane Mansfield story. Like he had some minor roles, but Conan the Barbarian was, for all intents and purposes, his first starring role. Two years later, he does Conan the Destroyer, and then the year after that, he does Callador. But in between, or he does Red Sonja as Callador, but in between Conan the Destroyer and Red Sonja, he does The Terminator, which is kind of the movie that puts him on the map. So at this point, he is the biggest star
00:08:04
Speaker
much in one of the biggest stars in the world at this point. And so you can see why De Laurentiis would kind of want to try to milk that star power for everything it's worth in this movie to try to get more butts in seeds. Ultimately, it doesn't look like it worked at all. But that's kind of the impetus behind this.
00:08:26
Speaker
Brett, do you have any familiarity with the character of Red Sonja, the character of Conan, the work of Robert E. Howard? What is your level of familiarity there? Pretty much zero. Okay. Because I really didn't even... I didn't see the Conan movies until way later. Okay, fair
Fantasy Genre Preferences
00:08:46
Speaker
enough. But, I mean, I know, at least know that
00:08:53
Speaker
Even though he's not Conan in the movie, he basically is, and a lot of fans have,
00:09:02
Speaker
sort of thrown in some fan fiction, maybe, instead of making it fit. He changed his name while he's traveling. Yeah, this is one of Conan's traveling names. Yeah, which is not uncommon for fantasy heroes to do in fantasy stories. And I mean, look, he's using the Conan sword.
00:09:30
Speaker
He just looks like Conan in red, and he acts like Conan. For all intents and purposes, he is Conan. He is similar to, but legally distinct from Conan. Sure, but come on. He is Conan. No, I'm right there with you, which is why I've been calling him totally not Conan, because
00:09:56
Speaker
He is, but he's totally not. He's diet Conan. He's Conan zero. Conan light, as it were. Conan light. Yes. But no, I mean, I know the name Red Sonia from comic books, but that's not they're not the same character that I'm thinking of. Well, and so.
00:10:18
Speaker
The Robert E. Howard Red Sonja character was kind of this 16th century pirate queen kind of character from based on what I've read. And then Roy Thomas working for Marvel Comics who had the rights to Conan.
00:10:34
Speaker
basically wrote the character of Red Sonja and kind of transcribed her into the Hyperion Age, which is kind of the age in which Conan adventures, in order so that she could meet up with Conan. That's literally the reason. So this movie, probably, based on what I've read, has more in common with the comic book Red Sonja than it does with the actual stories featuring Red Sonja written by Robert Howard.
00:11:04
Speaker
based on my understanding. So ignore me. It's the opposite of what I said. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I mean, but, you know, just based on on what I've read, of course, Robert E. Howard, probably most famous for Conan the Barbarian, but also wrote characters like Solomon Kane, called The Conqueror, stars of movies that we will cover on this podcast someday. I can pretty much guarantee. But Conan is kind of his his main character, his work.
00:11:32
Speaker
kind of vaguely ties into the work of Lovecraft, I think a little bit. He and Lovecraft were kind of writing friends. I think they had correspondents going with one another. And Howard was very much inspired by the work of Lovecraft and so includes portions of the Cthulhu mythos throughout his work, from what I understand. Which I was not aware of, because I enjoy fantasy quite a lot.
00:12:01
Speaker
Mm hmm. But this is not the kind of fantasy I'm into. So what kind of fantasy are you in? Because you've you've been on record as saying you're also not a fan of like the Lord of the Rings and that vein of fantasy either. So what kind of fantasy are you into, Brett? I think a more straightforward sword and sorcery like. It's very much more.
00:12:24
Speaker
more, it's honestly now that you're asking me this question, it is hard for me to describe because I'm sure there's plenty of fantasy nerds out there going, well, you don't like Lord of the Rings and you don't like Conan fantasy. What the fuck are you talking about? Like, do you have a particular fantasy franchise that you're more drawn to? I mean, I know you're a big D&D guy, so is it just kind of the D&D thing that you're into? Yeah, I mean, it's that, but at the same time, I also enjoy
00:12:53
Speaker
things like Wheel of Time, and like the other series that Jim Butcher writes that I can never remember the name. Yeah, he's done writing it, but that was more fantasy. And I don't know, I guess where magic is more prevalent, where magic is more in the world, where it's not like, you know, in Lord of the Rings and in Conan, magic is in the background.
00:13:24
Speaker
It's more just big dudes with swords in Conan. And it's... I don't even know how you would describe it in Lord of the Rings. It's just... I don't know. Lord of the Rings is so dry to me. Maybe that's what it is. Lord of the Rings is dry as hell.
00:13:39
Speaker
Are you talking about the Jim Butcher series? Are you talking about the Codex Alera? The Codex Alera, yes. OK, I'm on his website right now and trying to figure out which of his books you might be referring to. Codex Alera seemed like the most fantasy ask, so I went with that one. Yeah, I mean, he's. He's recently started his third series, but he's really fires. Yeah, he's really only had the first two, right? Yeah, you know, I just I want more.
00:14:09
Speaker
I want my fantasy to be more fantastical. Maybe that's the best way to put it. I want it to be, I want there to be magic everywhere. I want there to just be like, video game wise, like I really like Skyrim and Elder Scrolls and you know, things like Event Horizon, not Event Horizon.
00:14:35
Speaker
I was going to say, that's sci-fi. It's Horizon Zero Dawn. Oh, OK. I'm also not completely here right now, which, I mean, has magic sort of, but it's like technology based. But it's very prevalent in the world. It's very it's not in the background. I think that that's that's what it is. So you like magic as the feature, not the bug.
00:14:59
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like that's the case like I don't I don't want it to be the only thing I do also like dudes in suits of armor and swords sure sure, but I also want there to be a very Fragile dude in a robe throwing fireballs right next to it Which I mean the only fragile dude in this movie other than you know the child is
00:15:26
Speaker
the great Ronald Lacy who plays, Ronald Lacy gives good henchmen in this movie as he does in several other movies, but we'll get into Ronald Lacy in the fullness of time. But he's probably the most fragile of the dudes in this movie. I would agree. I mean, he fits the mold of like a mage, but like there's no, I mean, you've got, what is the thing? The talisman? The talisman.
00:15:56
Speaker
Yeah, the MacGuffin. Yeah. Yeah. The MacGuffin. I mean, there's magic there. That seems to be it. Yeah. Outside of maybe like the metal dragons that they fight. Maybe that's maybe magical, but not really. Right. Which is a machine that is frequently referred to as a machine. And that's I think one thing about this movie that kind of threw me is the fact that for
00:16:20
Speaker
All intents and purposes, this takes place in kind of a prehistoric era. But then by the same token, there's a very complex machine that is made to resemble a dragon that is clearly made of metal and functions just completely devoid of any remote control and is. Like trying to devour them and has eyes that work, but it's metal like it doesn't make any sense to me.
00:16:51
Speaker
And that's going to be my main conceit of this entire episode is there's not really a whole lot of logic here. There's not really a whole lot of context for much. And it makes me wish I were more familiar with the work of Howard because I don't know much about his Hyborian age. I don't know much about Conan. I don't know much about Red Sonja.
00:17:15
Speaker
I've written with some people who are big fans of his, who are very much fond of his work, but it's never something that I've actively sought out. But I know there's kind of this lineage of heroes within his work that Conan kind of fits into, like the very similar to Campbell's like hero of many faces kind of a thing.
00:17:38
Speaker
So, I mean, I know there's elements of that kind of baked into Howard's work, but my knowledge of it is very limited. I don't have a lot of experience with the comics. See, sword and sorcery in fantasy has never really been my thing. I like some of it, but it's never been like the thing I was all in. And I was more of a sci-fi guy than a fantasy guy.
00:18:04
Speaker
So I'm not as familiar with Howard's work as I am with maybe some other writers of his era. And I mean, I didn't really get into fantasy until probably after high school. After The Lord of the Rings came out. Yeah. I mean, Lord of the Rings, definitely. The movies, I definitely like the movies, Lord of the Rings, more than the books. I tried to read the books.
00:18:31
Speaker
And as I've always, this is what I tell anybody that asks me, because I got through the Hobbit. The Hobbit was fine. Hobbit is a very easy read.
00:18:42
Speaker
It is partly because it was written kind of as a Y.A. book, honestly. But it's the very it's a funny example of like red flags you ignore that you that turn out to be major red flags later. Like there's there's a big we're going to fight this big ass badass dragon. This cool battle is going to happen. Now we're going to knock out the point of view character. So and then he'll wake up after it's over.
00:19:08
Speaker
That is Tolkien's ride around for just because I don't think Tolkien was particularly interested in fighting. I don't think he was particularly interested in writing fight scenes. And so from my from what I recall of the Lord of the Rings books that I have read, that tends
LOTR Battle Sequences Creation
00:19:26
Speaker
to happen a lot. The point of view character kind of gets knocked out right before the fighting starts, which means that Peter Jackson pretty much had to craft all those battles whole cloth from scratch.
00:19:34
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I mean, the bad ass battle of Helm's Deep that everybody talks about. Oh, yeah. Towers. Good. So that is it's a paragraph in the book. Exactly. Exactly. And I only know that because I. I didn't get that far. Only. I mean, I. Because I couldn't make it through fellowship like it.
00:20:02
Speaker
I made it all the way up through two towers and then I kind of lost interest and I never made it to the return of the king. Because I tried to read the prologue of fellowship and it read like the Bible. Well, I mean, you know, to to say that Tolkien was inspired by the the Christian scriptures is I'm not really saying anything new, although he would deny there was any kind of allegorical anything happening. It's pretty clear that there actually was so.
00:20:33
Speaker
Yeah, so Gandalf is as much a Jesus allegory as Aslan, and C.S. Lewis is Lion Witch in the wardrobe. Absolutely. Maybe not as heavy handed as Aslan, but still- Oh, nothing's as heavy handed as Aslan, let's be honest. Fair point. But I mean, movies though, movies, I enjoy the Lord of the Rings movies. No, they're good movies, yeah. To an extent, they're very long.
00:20:57
Speaker
They are. You gotta like that long cinema, buddy. Yeah, which I'm not always in the mood for, but sometimes I am. And that's because they play up the, you know, the fighting more and the action and like the sword and the sorcery, even though there's more sword than sorcery there. I mean, you know, one of your main characters is a fragile dude in a robe. He's not throwing fireballs, granted, but, you know, fragile dude in a robe right there. And that's, I mean, so Gandalf, Gandalf's great.
00:21:28
Speaker
I quite enjoy Gandalf. So then when we get into like the Conan universe and everything, it's just, it's so dry. It's drier than Lord of the Rings. It's drier than a desert. It's just big dudes with swords and like other big dudes with swords and then other weird dudes with swords who rob people.
00:21:54
Speaker
And see, I don't know enough about the world to know to what extent magic is a thing in Robert Howard's work, but I don't know. It doesn't seem to be too prevalent if we're going by the Conan and Red Sony movies.
00:22:09
Speaker
I mean, that's fair. I mean, the early 80s were a big time for this kind of work, so it's no surprise that at least the Conan movies were relatively successful. You've also got like the Beastmaster films around this time as well. Like Sword and Sorcery is kind of a big deal and it starts to fall off like right around here. Like shortly after this, we've got the He-Man movie as well, Master of the Universe, see our previous episode on that.
00:22:37
Speaker
Um, like there have been a lot of, of these kinds of works that were now, see now beast master was my dad's thing. Like anytime the beast master was on TV, we were absolutely watching the beast master. Um, but I mean, those are all an other early eighties sword and sorcery films that.
00:22:56
Speaker
were Willow also another one, another example of that. Like the 80s were kind of a big time for a bit of a resurgence of that kind of film. And it starts to fall off as the quality of those films starts to decrease. And this I think is a very prevalent example of that kind of lack of quality or that kind of quality falling off. Because this movie, spoiler alert, not that great.
00:23:24
Speaker
And those are those are other kind of you reminded me of some other kind of fantasies I like, which is your your never ending stories, your labyrinths, your legends, your willows. Yeah. Those those are the other kind of fantasies like whether it is fantastical.
00:23:44
Speaker
Well, and again, magic is the feature in a lot of those, too. I mean, your primary villain in Labyrinth is David Bowie's codpiece. But second to that is David Bowie himself as Jareth the Goblin King. You know, Willow is a magician. That's kind of his thing. You know, the barbarian character is kind of the goofball comic relief slash also the hero in a weird way.
00:24:09
Speaker
Um, like legend, you've got, you know, Tim Curry as discount Satan in that movie. Like there's there's all sorts of. Oh, he's not discount Satan in that movie. Do you see the horns on that man? That is not discount Satan. He makes regular Satan look like discount Satan. Also, it's Tim fucking Curry is Satan. OK, come on. Touche.
00:24:32
Speaker
Touche. But I mean, that's kind of like, again, all of those have those kind of very magic at the forefront kind of films. I haven't seen Legend in years. I need to rewatch Legend, apparently. So do I. I wonder if it holds up. The other ones do. I can confirm that, like, Never Ending Story and Labyrinth, Labyrinth especially, holds up as long as you're OK with the aforementioned David Bowie.
00:25:01
Speaker
What he's got going on there. Yeah, his David Bowie's Little David I guess I can't just in your face the whole time if you're okay with that you're fine Which I mean, you know, why why wouldn't you be? I Was fine with it. Yeah, sure. I mean, it's it it's it's David Bowie in all his glory. What's not to like? Sure. What's not to love in point of fact? Even even
00:25:30
Speaker
Princess Brad, which does not exactly have magic at the forefront per se. It's there. There's some magic elements. It's mostly dudes with swords, but it's not big burly, mostly naked guys with swords. You have a problem with the male nudity aspect of it all. Not that. I clearly don't. We just discussed David Bowie's
00:25:55
Speaker
thing for like a couple of minutes. Just say the word. It's his penis. It's we were talking about David Bowie's penis. Look, I was thinking of the kids. OK, I didn't want to. Oh, yes, because kids absolutely listen to this podcast. They might. You don't know. Penis is the is the proper medical term. Now, if I'm calling it his tally whacker or his schlong or his dong or his man meat, then we might have a problem. Well, now it's ruined.
00:26:24
Speaker
So my point being no, it has nothing to do with the nudity. It's just like It's the same reason Because I mean this is something else we I was absolutely planning to get into in this episode is it's the same reason that like
00:26:40
Speaker
women get pissed off at like half naked women in a movie or it's like It's it's the male gaze. This one is the female gaze like you You're just looking at giant half naked dudes with muscles swinging swords around like that's not I don't want that I would rather have a suave intelligent guy sword fighting Charming, you know pirate
00:27:08
Speaker
A Captain Jack Sparrow, if you will. Or a Mandy Patinkin. Whichever. Whichever you prefer. I mean, I would definitely prefer a Mandy Patinkin there, but you know. Yeah, I mean, or, you know, a Carrie Elwes. Also a Carrie Elwes. A Carrie Elwes type, if you will. Sure. Yeah. I don't know. It's just...
00:27:29
Speaker
It's just not my thing, man. Like, I don't need. And see, I don't mind it. Like, I mean, that to me is just that's kind of part and parcel of the thing. So that that that bothers me not at all. Like, I'm not going to, you know, watch a movie that has a half naked Arnold Schwarzenegger in it and go, man, I wish you didn't have to be half naked all the time. Well, I'm not really saying that either. I guess it's more that like that just doesn't interest me. Like, it's not that's that's not the kind of fantasy I'm into. I don't know.
00:27:59
Speaker
I mean, the aforementioned frail guy in a robe throwing fireballs. That's me. That's your tempo. Yeah. Well, I mean, literally, that's that would be. I would not be.
00:28:13
Speaker
In any way, shape, or form, swinging a sword, I would be in the back tossing fireballs at things. Whereas, see, I was always drawn to the dwarf characters, like the short guys with the axes and the giant helmets. That was my speed. So any kind of fantasy that's got a great dwarf character kicking ass, like Gimli in Lord of the Rings, I'm there for it.
00:28:40
Speaker
Yeah, to each their own. I mean, that's why D&D is so popular because there's so many different ways to play a character that can definitely express who you are. So what's your D&D class, Brett? When you play D&D, I know you're mostly a DM these days, but when you were playing D&D and you created your own character, what was your class? Tell us about the kind of character you play when you play D&D.
00:29:07
Speaker
Well, it's funny you say that. I've been a forever DM, literally forever. Until recently. That's what forever means. Yeah, that's what forever means. Because, as other D&D fans out there might know, you want to play D&D, you want your friends to play D&D with you, but none of them want to learn the rules or run the game.
00:29:32
Speaker
they want to create a character and have fun. So if you want your friends to play D&D, I guess I'm running it. Okay, let's shrug. But luckily, I have a group now that has a couple people in it that are more than happy to run again. So I'm playing in my first campaign as a player in, God, I don't know how long.
00:30:03
Speaker
So my current character, if you, I mean my username on all of my social media is an indication. My go-to class is Warlock. Oh, Warlock, okay, okay. Yeah. I am a Tiefling Warlock, if anybody out there knows what a Tiefling is. I have no idea. What's a Tiefling?
00:30:28
Speaker
A tiefling is somebody who, in their lineage, banged a demon. And so one of their children was born with any myriad, you know, you can kind of pick and choose, any myriad of deformities that make them look like a humanoid demon. They're not actually a demon. They're just half human, half demon.
00:30:57
Speaker
Okay. So they might have horns. Pretty much all of them have the horns, but the horns can be all sorts of different designs. Sure. Some tieflings have tails. Some tieflings have cloven hooves. Mine has the tail and the horns, but that's about it. And he pretty much hides the tail most of the time. As one would imagine. Yeah. Most of the time, tieflings are red-skinned.
00:31:27
Speaker
Um, like, you know, like, as you would expect a devil to be. Sure, sure. Um, a Tim Curry type. Right. Yes. Very, very Tim Curry esque. Uh, mine, however, is blue skinned. Ah, very DC comics of you. Uh, yeah. Well, so the thing about warlocks is we're getting deep into D and D here. So if you, that's D and D corner, everybody, Brett's, Brett's D and D corners. If you're not a fan of D and D and you're bored out of your mind right now, maybe skip ahead and maybe like 10 minutes.
00:31:58
Speaker
Now, you are throwing down your marker. 10 minutes more of D&D talk. There might not be, but it's probably a safe bet. Five minutes? I don't know. I want to give you an accurate number. I don't want you to scroll ahead and go, he's still talking about this? I'm going to give you a good buffer.
00:32:21
Speaker
Because you give me talking about D&D, I'm a go off. Clearly. And you asked. I did. That's that's my mistake. But you know what? I'm we're living with it now. We're in it, baby. So the thing about Warlocks is they they're they're not like wizards or sorcerers in that they get their magic from a eldritch being of some kind, an ancient eldritch being of some kind. And they make a pact with them for whatever reason.
00:32:50
Speaker
And the Eldritch Being grants them their magical powers. So mine, I made a pact with a kasulu-like creature. In a moment of near death. Sure, as one might expect. While drowning in the ocean, I made a pact with a kasulu-like monster, which turned my Tiefling skin blue and gave me magical powers. Cool.
00:33:19
Speaker
And there's tons of different options for patrons. Tons of different options for, you know, spells you can get. So that's why I like Warlocks. Because they're very powerful. They're considered glass cannons. Because it doesn't take a lot to put one down. But I'm also casting all of my spells at like max level. Okay.
00:33:46
Speaker
So that's that's why fragile guy throwing fireballs. Exactly. Except my my guy is fragile and likes to summon a lot of tentacles. I mean, as one does. Or trap you in a alternate dimension sphere of.
00:34:10
Speaker
creepy tentacles. Sure. I mean, because everyone knows that if there's one thing that every HP Lovecraft story has in common, it's tentacles. Exactly. Our friends over at the cast of Cthulhu are throwing their pod catching devices across the room. As I mentioned that, that's one of the one of the things that drives them nuts about the common conceptions about HP Lovecraft. But what are you going to do? It's all about the tentacle porn.
00:34:41
Speaker
You heard it here first, folks. HP Lovecraft was into tentacle porn. Here's the thing. I don't really care about saying not nice things about HP Lovecraft because he was a terrible person. Yeah. Look, talk all the shit you want about him. Oh, I will. Please do it. He probably was into shit play, too. Who knows? Not me. Probably. Yeah. I mean, in track.
00:35:03
Speaker
Dude was a freak. He's a dang-ass freak. Was he a good writer? Yes. Did he create a mythos that is beloved by many? Yes. Was he like legit awful? 100%. Do we condone any of his actions? No, we do not. No, just because I based my D&D character on his mythos does not mean that I condone his behavior.
00:35:28
Speaker
So shall it be written, so shall it be done. I do, and your character is very nice and just wants to make friends. Sure, as one would hope.
00:35:37
Speaker
but real hard just to not go down the road. I'm just like, let me tell you about our campaign. And you're, you're, you're tiptoeing right up to the line, which is why I'm going to pivot hard back to red. So yes, please please me before I bore everybody to death. The reason why we're actually here today is to discuss the 1985 Richard Fleischer film red Sonia and Brett were 37 minutes into this episode right now. And we have not yet summed up the plot of red Sonia.
00:36:06
Speaker
A good indication of how we feel about a movie. Usually, yes. But we do need to talk about the plot of Red Sonja. And so to do that, we turn to the great Coin of Justice donated by our number one fan, Tucker. Brett, I am going to have you call the Coin of Justice in the air as I flip it. Call it now, sir. Heads? Is that even a flip? It looks like it floated.
00:36:37
Speaker
And just for that, it's actually Tails now. So it was going to be heads, but now it's Tails. Well, it was Tails. We take the first result. You are shunning the coin of justice right now by not taking its first result. You shunned the coin of justice by telling me it wasn't a flip. So that's on you. And that is your penance, sir, is that you are now the one that needs to recount the plot of 1985's Red Sonja in 60 seconds or less. Where is my time tracking device?
00:37:08
Speaker
All right. So I have 60 seconds on the clock and you let me know when you are ready, sir. All right, so we start with Sonya, who was left for dead by Queen Gedron. We find that out later. And then there's Talisman that they're going to destroy because it's getting too powerful. And then not Conan finds her sister and
00:37:39
Speaker
Then shenanigans happen. Red Sonia finds an annoying little kid who's the prince. 30 seconds. And then they go to Queen Gedrin's place. Other shenanigans happen along the way. They find a metal dragon.
00:38:01
Speaker
Gedron as a queen, the pet spider, that's kind of creepy. And then they fight Queen Gedron and they defeat her. And then just Sonia, not Conan, bang it out. And that's the end of the movie. Two, one, and time. Bang it out. Quite literally, probably, I guess, because there's always this whole thing about no man will have me unless he defeats me. And so Conan's like, OK, we're fighting.
00:38:30
Speaker
right now. And then they end up just fighting to a stalemate because they're they're so equally matched, you see. And then at the end, they they get down to fight and then instead of fighting, they just make out. And the child and the the his his very large keeper right off into the distance, presumably because they know that they're just going to do it whether they're there or not. So you might as well get the kid away, I guess.
00:39:00
Speaker
I'm sure I don't know if I have no idea. That whole thing really seems to go against the message the movie tries to put across. Oh, yes. Strong, independent woman don't need no man, except she does all the time, except she does because not Conan says so. Yeah. And he's like, oh, he's he's following her to make sure she doesn't fall into harm or whatever.
00:39:30
Speaker
Like every time she falls into trouble, he like jumps in and fights a bunch of people and saves her. Like it's very.
00:39:39
Speaker
It's very talking out of both sides of its mouth about the whole thing because it's, you know, yeah, she's a strong independent woman who don't need no man until she does need a man, which is often and she kind of ends up taking a backseat in her own movie because because Arnold really is really kind of what it comes down to is is Brigitte Nielsen kind of becomes the secondary character in a movie titled after her.
00:40:09
Speaker
She's like a pseudo damsel in distress. She's like not Conan is constantly saving her. Right. She's a damsel in distress who gets to kick a moderate amount of ass. A little bit like she does end up defeating Gedren at the end. But like.
00:40:30
Speaker
That's about it. Like pretty much everyone else. And, you know, she's we do all this work at the beginning about how she's she's like imbued with some kind of magical ability from some sort of vengeance spirit or something question mark, some goddess or other. And and she's like really good with a sword and like defeats the grand master, et cetera. But then, like.
00:40:55
Speaker
She's still not better than Conan because Conan's a man and canonically men are better.
00:41:02
Speaker
Well, he's also a Conan. He can't lose. Sure. Even though it's not his movie. No, but the character Conan cannot lose. He is the main character of his world. Yeah, the canonical main character. I mean, it's it's the whole who can who would win in a fight, Superman or Batman? And the answer to that question is always, well, it depends on whose book you're reading. If it's Superman, you're you're going to bet Superman would win. If it's a Batman book, then you'd better believe Batman is going to win like.
00:41:31
Speaker
In reality, yeah, one of them would easily crush the other. But, you know, it just depends on who's writing the book and what title they're writing at the time. That's accurate. Except in this case, it's a movie called Red Sonja and Conan still wins.
00:41:49
Speaker
Yeah, kind of the opposite of what you said. Right. Yeah. I mean, but you would imagine that this would be an opportunity for her to best Conan. But then at the end of the movie, it's very clear she does not want to. And even I mean, Tarn, the the little prince even gives the indication that, oh, she doesn't want to win. Like she wants Conan to have his way with her is kind of the implication, which is weird.
00:42:14
Speaker
and uncomfortable, right? Like, yes, given what she's lived through up to this point. Yeah, she's like, it's just, yeah, she totally wanted it the whole time, right? Like, she wanted it.
00:42:27
Speaker
But no. No. Even her master at the beginning is like, you should learn to trust men. It might hurt you in the future if you don't. He literally says not all men. He literally says not all men. Yeah. Which is fucking wild. He should have put a hashtag in front of it. He had fucked up. If only hashtags existed back then.
00:42:48
Speaker
in the Hyborian age. That was weird, man. It was an uncomfortable thing to have happen. I mean, this movie has just had me scratching my head pretty much the whole time. And honestly, it runs into, I think, a similar problem to other female-led action hero films that we've talked about on this podcast, like Catwoman and Electra, in that it's still written and directed by a man
00:43:14
Speaker
and really gives no indication that there is any level of understanding put into the female character and trying to make that character uniquely female. I mean, it's just, you know, woman with sword kick ass is kind of the directive here and it doesn't work. This movie is.
00:43:34
Speaker
It's the movie equivalent of those books. I mean, it has its own subreddit, women written by men, name is subreddit. It's the movie equivalent of that, where it's like a dude writing about like a woman's character and how like her ovaries quiver with excitement. And you're like, my brother in Christ, you know how people anatomy works.
00:44:03
Speaker
Um, the answer to that question is no, particularly if he is in fact a brother in Christ, they, they probably have no idea. Um, let's be honest. It's just uncomfortable. Like it's clear that it's, they, they were trying to make, I really don't think, because I originally said like, maybe the message this movie is trying to get across on second thought. I don't think that's the case. I think that is really just to show.
00:44:28
Speaker
that whole like strong independent woman shtick in this movie. I will call it shtick in this movie. No, it fits for this movie for sure. Is just to show later that no, just kidding. She actually does need a man. Mm hmm.
00:44:45
Speaker
You know, even even you strong independent women who think you don't need a man. You actually do, though. But in reality, you need a man. You still do, though. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, you need that you need a conqueror is what you need, which yuck it. Yeah. And the fact that she's constantly getting ordered around by by Kino from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2, also known as the kid from Surf Ninjas.
00:45:14
Speaker
Gotta fucking hate that kid. Can I just say that? He is so goddamn annoying. I cannot stand him. I mean, they're going for the character is obnoxious. And, you know, that's kind of the the type of kid character that was popular in movies like this around the time.
00:45:34
Speaker
Sure, but like, look, look. Short round? Great. Sure. Short round is exactly this kind of character done well. Short round is the exception that proves the rule, if anything. Like, short round is kind of the character, like, this shouldn't work.
00:45:51
Speaker
And some might argue it doesn't, but I would say it works a far sight better than most examples of the kids sidekick in 80s movies. And actually, can I say something real quick? I just realized I'm running through characters that are like this in my head. Why are they all Asian?
00:46:10
Speaker
Your guess is as good as mine, sir. Because I almost kind of, because I've been like, okay, you got a short round, you got this kid. And I was like, data from Goonies, kind of that character. I mean, all the Goonies are kind of that character. That movie is completely populated by kid sidekicks. Sure. Some of them are more sidekicky than others. And I think, I would say Data and Mouth are probably the two, and Chunk are probably the three biggest sidekicky characters in that movie.
00:46:40
Speaker
Right. So yeah, so maybe not maybe not that one to the extent, but still like that's I mean, there's there's there. Yeah, there's the top of my head and they're all Asian and two of them are played by the same actor. Yeah. So I don't know. Maybe it's just him getting typecast a little bit. Maybe. I mean, yeah, I don't know that I really noticed that as much, but I think there's a good point there. I mean, and this kid is in.
00:47:02
Speaker
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2. He's in Surf Ninjas. So I mean, he plays these types of roles relatively often. So I don't know. There's probably something to that. I don't know what it is other than there was also along with a big influx of
00:47:20
Speaker
sword and sorcery films in the 80s. There was a big subset of like Asian influence, like we're coming off of the 70s and the height of the Kung Fu movie, Bruce Lee fever in the 60s. And a lot of that comes through in the 80s, stuff like Big Trouble in Little China and The Golden Child, those kind of East meets West kind of movies, Year of the Dragon, kind of all of those sort of Asian influenced films that were kind of popular in the mid to late 80s. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe it's just a coincidence.
00:47:50
Speaker
It could be. I mean, but, you know, you look around and sometimes if a coincidence is too repetitive, it's not really a coincidence. Well, I mean, racism has always been prevalent in Hollywood. Exactly. And I mean, and that's kind of the watchword like that. That's something racism and sexism, two things that never go out of style in Hollywood, unfortunately. And this movie's got a little bit of both.
00:48:13
Speaker
Well, not a little bit of both. Yeah. Fair enough.
Ernie Reyes Jr.'s Career Transition
00:48:18
Speaker
Quite a bit of both. Quite a bit of both parts. But yeah, I like Ernie Ray as Junior. I like his stuff as he gets older. I was a big fan of Surf Ninjas as a kid. That's definitely a movie we're going to cover on this podcast one day. Was a big fan of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movies.
00:48:35
Speaker
So like I was I was an Ernie Reyes Jr fan growing up, but like now he does stunt work in Hollywood. That's kind of his thing. Like he was a stunt work. He did some work on Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. He was a stunt performer in the first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie. So, I mean, he's he's been doing a lot of stunt performance, which is kind of cool. I mean, it's pretty neat. I'm glad to see you still working. Yeah. You like to see it.
00:49:01
Speaker
Absolutely. And I think he does. He's a kickboxer, too. So apparently he's he has some kickboxing titles. Oh, damn. Yeah. So, you know, and his father was the great Ernie Reyes, Sr., who who also was in the movie Surf Ninjas. But he was like a really iconic martial arts
00:49:22
Speaker
both athlete and performer. So he comes by his ability, honestly, and you can tell he's doing his own stunt work in this movie.
00:49:33
Speaker
Here's the thing, for all that this movie does really wrong, I can't completely hate it because there are elements of brilliance. You've got the score by Ennio Morricone, which is really fantastic. You've got Ernie Reyes' stunt work. Yeah, his performance is really obnoxious, but his stunt work is pretty legit for just being, what, a 10-year-old kid at this point? Certain aspects of the set design are really fantastic.
00:50:02
Speaker
room with all the candles where, what's her name? I forgot the villain's name. Gedrin, where Gedrin and Sonya have their fight and there's all those candles laying around. That looks freaking cool. And it's easy to do on a budget. How difficult is it to just bring in a bunch of candles and light them and just let that be the atmosphere? But it looks fucking incredible.
00:50:24
Speaker
Like there there are some some really fantastic costume design in this movie is also great. Like there are some really cool things in this movie that are that are awesome. But unfortunately, like it's kind of overshadowed by the fact that the script is not that great. The acting is very stiff, very wooden. The direction is completely uninspired. Like there's more bad than good, but the good in this movie is pretty good.
00:50:52
Speaker
I can agree on the set design. I was very impressed by the candle room and the throne room. The throne room was great. Yeah. This seems like that stiff acting is very like every movie like this has the same sort of stiff acting. I don't know what it is about these style of fantasy movies, but nobody knows how to act in them.
00:51:14
Speaker
Well, it's like the Lawrence Olivier School of Shakespeare. Lawrence Olivier kind of wrote the book on what a Shakespeare movie should be.
00:51:25
Speaker
But by the same token, like his Shakespeare movies are boring as hell because like he's got this very like performative, stiff kind of way of performing Shakespeare. Whereas like if you watch anyone else's adaptations like Orson Welles or Roman Polanski or, you know, any of these other people and the Shakespeare work that they do, it's dynamic. Like there's a lot more to it because there's not this like reverence like, oh, this is the bard. We must treat him with respect.
00:51:53
Speaker
kind of attitude and there's I think that kind of a similar attitude around these types of movies where everyone's got to be this kind of larger than life character I am completely good I am you know holier than thou or whatever the hell like that's kind of that's kind of the thing so I think there's a lot of that and also in fairness to Brigitte Nielsen this is her first movie ever like ever
Brigitte Nielsen's Career Beginnings
00:52:23
Speaker
So I'm willing to give her a little bit of slack for not being, you know, the most naturalistic presence on screen. At this point, she's like just getting her start. She was a model before this, and so this was kind of her first role. She marries Sylvester Stallone the same year and then is in Rocky IV and Cobra. Her literally her very next movie after this is Rocky IV. And then she does
00:52:53
Speaker
Beverly Hills Cop 2 after Cobra. So it's Red Sonja, Rocky IV, Cobra, Beverly Hills Cop 2, which is a really great run. Honestly, if you're talking about like mid 80s action films, like she is kind of
00:53:10
Speaker
really the female counterpart to all of those guys. And then, of course, she's later known for her role on The Surreal Life, where she ended up in a relationship with one. Let me read this here. Flavor Flav. You know, we don't talk about that. But then she's currently married to Mattia Desi, who is
00:53:37
Speaker
And, uh, I don't, I don't know what he does, but, uh, they were married in Malta in 2006. So good for her. Just a dude, just a dude, just a dude. As far as I know, he's an Italian dude, but yeah, there you go. They, they got married, uh, apparently shortly after her relationship with Flavor Flav ended. So there you go. Thank you for reminding me that the surreal life and all of that was a thing that happened. You're welcome.
00:54:03
Speaker
Why did we let that happen as a society? Man, that was a time in American life when reality TV was like it. And the only celebrities you could get on any kind of like reality show were like the people that were celebrities a long time ago. And so like, who do you get if you're like MTV or VH1 or whoever did the surreal life? You do, you know, you get
00:54:33
Speaker
Bronson Pinchot and MC Hammer and Webster and Brigitte Nielsen and Flavor Flav and Vern Troyer and, you know, just Peter Brady, you know, you get them and you move them into a house together and you're like, I don't know, do something funny. Yeah, it was VH1. MTV at least tried to be a little bit more sophisticated with their reality shows at first.
00:54:56
Speaker
Well, I mean, they also didn't use celebrities at all. No, they just used real people. And you could argue MTV probably invented that wave of reality television with stuff like the real world. So yeah. So I mean, there it is. But, you know, there's a blame. I would agree. I'm willing to give them all of the blame. But yeah, Brigitte Nielsen kind of a really big deal there in the mid 80s and then kind of goes into obscurity a little bit.
00:55:25
Speaker
Um, which is, uh, is kind of a bummer because I think, I mean, this movie is not really an indication of what she does well. Like, I think she's much better served in, uh, Rocky and in, uh, Beverly Hills cop two. But I mean, you know, to have your very first movie be the title character. Kind of great. Like good for her.
00:55:48
Speaker
Sure. Yeah, great. But at the same time, I would be kind of pissed if all of a sudden they're like, you were going to be the star, but we got Arnold Schwarzenegger. You're up to number two now. He's doing this as a favor, and so we're going to milk that for all it's worth. We're going to make him legitimately, we're going to make him regret doing a favor for a friend.
00:56:13
Speaker
We told him it was just going to be a cameo, but between you and me, it's actually a co-star. He is pretty much the lead now and he's going to be billed above you like any other like if this movie were made today, Arnold would get the and it would be and Arnold Schwarzenegger. And honestly, he would prop. It would be an actual cameo like he chew up for a scene, maybe two. And then what he does for most of the movie would be done by someone else.
00:56:41
Speaker
Well, I mean, in this day and age, it would need to get the requal treatment. He'd show up, spout the line about what is best in life, and then he'd disappear. And then he'd show up again in the post-credit sequence to set up the next movie. Yeah. Yeah. Then there's probably a predator somewhere. I don't know. Get what they drop off. Then we get Conan versus Predator.
00:57:06
Speaker
Fuck yeah, that's a movie I actually want to see really bad. That would be so cool. I could not be any more rock hard right now. Right. I can only get so erect, people. A lot of Peanuts talk in this episode. That's weird. That is a little weird.
00:57:20
Speaker
David Bowie's penises are penises. What are we what are we doing? I don't know, man. I do want to talk about the Raiders of the Lost Ark connection with this movie because there is not one. Brett, not two, but three actors from Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark in this movie. Most notably, the aforementioned Ronald Lacey, who plays
00:57:47
Speaker
Toth in Raiders of the Lost Ark, he's the guy whose face melts. In this movie, he plays Eichol, the guy who gets crushed by a giant ass door. I mean, you know, he's got a type. The next is Pat Roach, who is the only person other than Harrison Ford to be in all three Indiana Jones movies.
00:58:09
Speaker
He was not able to be in the fourth one because I think he had passed away by that point. Yes, he had. He passed away in 2004, but he was in all of the others in Raiders of the Lost Ark. He plays the giant Sherpa and the first mechanic. He's the guy whose head gets caught in the propeller blade and his blood goes all over the swastika. But he plays Brytag in this movie, the
00:58:38
Speaker
Lord of the weird. Like dirt people who tries to like rape. He's Java the Hutt. Let's not. He's Java the Hutt. Let's fair enough. Very clear. He's Java the Hutt. That's touche. Two years after Empire, he's Java that makes sense. And then Terry Richards, who plays Jart in this movie, a character I don't know, but he is the infamous sword wielding man in Raiders of the Lost Ark, who Indiana Jones shoots with a gun.
00:59:08
Speaker
So we've got three different performers from the 1981 masterpiece Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark that just show up in Red Sonja, apropos of nothing, which I found really hilarious. I'm not going to lie. You know, that is a weird bit of trivia for sure. But, you know, I was I was glad to see Ron Lacey. Like, I think he is a fantastic actor. I like seeing him in stuff. I do also want to say, Brett,
00:59:37
Speaker
There is an actor in this movie. We have covered him three other times on this podcast. I don't know if you even know that we have done that. Paul L. Smith, who plays Falcon in this movie, aka the guy watching over the kid the whole movie, his known for is basically a murderer's row of movies we've covered on this podcast.
01:00:01
Speaker
He is in the 1994 film Maverick, as a character called the Archduke. He is in the 1980 film Popeye, as a character called Bluto. And he is in a 1984 movie called Dune, where he plays the Beast Raban.
01:00:22
Speaker
And then his other known four is this movie where he plays Falcon. So his known four is literally four movies that we have covered on this podcast, which I find hysterical. That's kind of insane. I didn't know those were all the same guy. Neither did I until I clicked on his name just to see what was up. So that to me is absolutely wild, but also absolutely incredible. And I had no idea.
01:00:51
Speaker
Does that make him the new patron saying to the podcast? It might. It might just do. Here's I'm looking in to see if there are other movies that we could potentially cover that he might be in. And I don't know that there are. So that might be the end of it. But yeah, really bizarre, like really, truly bizarre that that is, in fact, the the the way this shakes out. Really odd. Not sure what to make of that.
01:01:19
Speaker
But there it is. Just another cool fact, honestly. Honestly, yeah. Look, this movie is not great. I think it does have some redeeming value in it. But no, it's not that good. There's enough wrong with this movie for me to not say like I wouldn't recommend this, but
01:01:45
Speaker
I don't know. It has some fun. And again, Arnold himself calls it one of his worst films. So I think this might be the nadir of our of our all about Arnold April. And I hope it is because honestly, I know the next two movies are at least going to be better. And I'm the the next the one after that. I'm I'm going in with an open mind, but.
01:02:06
Speaker
You can only go up from here, right? I you you would imagine so. And I mean, again, like his run after this is really pretty.
01:02:16
Speaker
incredible like he goes from this to commando to raw deal to predator to the running man red heat twins total recall kindergarten cop terminator to like he's just Arnold ascendant at this point like he's just done terminator he is pretty much free to do whatever at this point
01:02:37
Speaker
And does like he pretty much just writes his own check from here. Like when he decides, oh, I want to do more comedy, suddenly you've got red heat and twins and kindergarten cop like junior, like he starts that run of Ivan Reitman comedies that seems really, really odd on paper. But I'm glad he was able to recover from this, but that must have just been because he was probably constantly going around like it wasn't my fault.
01:03:06
Speaker
De Laurentiis tricked me. Right. I was bamboozled. Well, and he still manages to come off as charming in this movie. Like he's not bad in this movie. Like it honestly, it feels like he's just kind of like, I don't know, whatever. Like this has very big favor for a friend energy about it. Like I don't I don't know if you get that impression, but that's kind of the impression that I get from this is he's just kind of like, I don't know. I'm here. I'm doing my thing. Whatever.
01:03:33
Speaker
Yeah, he's being Conan. I mean, and that's that's kind of what you want out of Arnold. Like he's doing the Arnold thing, like he's showing up, he's doing the work. He's he's he seems like he's having a good time, at least he might be the only one I don't know. But but yeah, this movie just feels very misguided and it kind of is the thing that kills both the Conan franchise and any possibility of Red Sonja becoming a franchise.
01:04:03
Speaker
Yeah, at least until they start talking about it again in the early 2000s. Yeah, let's get into some of that because that's an interesting conversation at least. Do you have any info on that, Brett? I've got some if you don't. I looked it up. I'm aware of it, but I do not have it in front of me.
01:04:23
Speaker
So it was originally so late, the back half of the 2000s, Robert Rodriguez is supposed to be doing a Red Sonja remake with Rose McGowan. That scrapped by 2009. Rose McGowan sustains an injury to her arm that pretty much limits what she's able to do with it. And so sword fighting apparently off the table at that point, although
01:04:49
Speaker
Apparently there are some fan posters online for her red Sonya, which look pretty freaking cool. Amber Heard is in talk shortly after that. That falls apart. Then for that, right. Then at some point we get a he who shall not be named is attached to.
01:05:10
Speaker
Red Sonia and as late as 2018 he is attached and then in February 2019 after the The abuse scandals come out the sexual abuse scandals come out about him That pretty much gets cancelled and then the I mean the project is kind of one of those. It's like constantly in development according to Wikipedia the Hollywood Reporter Says that Jill Soloway is working on
01:05:40
Speaker
a red sonya projects uh... or wasn't twenty nineteen we've got another one with tasha whoa who's writing uh... henna john common who played the uh... the ghost and and and the wasp is set to be red sonya uh... that's supposed to be filming this year so maybe we'll get a red sonya film sometime the next couple of years question mark i mean we did get another attempt at a konin movie which will
01:06:07
Speaker
which we will cover on this podcast with Jason Momoa back in like 2011. So I think when that came out, people were like, well, should we do a Red Sonja to let's do a Red Sonja to. So. I forgot that Jason Momoa Conan was a thing. It was. Yeah, wild. We can add that if we ever decide to do a pulp heroes month, we can throw that in in for for pulp heroes month.
01:06:33
Speaker
He says if we ever decide knowing, we've already decided to do that. Yeah, we just haven't placed it on the schedule yet, but we're absolutely going to do that at least once. We have enough. We could probably do it a couple of times, but we'll see.
01:06:45
Speaker
Yeah, it's gonna be good. It's gonna be fun time But yeah, so I mean there were there were a lot of attempts at a at a Red Sonia film after this but honestly most of them were in the 2000s like this movie did so poorly both with critics and with audiences that it was Not really Not really viable for the sequel treatment Arnold says about this what?
01:07:15
Speaker
What Dennis Hopper used to say about Super Mario Brothers, it's the worst film I've ever made. Apparently, he said in an interview, now I tell my kids that if they get out of line, they'll be forced to watch Red Sonya 10 times in a row. It must be working because I've never had much trouble with any of them. That's a hell of a punishment. Right? That doesn't seem like a punishment fitting the crime kind of thing.
01:07:38
Speaker
There's a quote from Maria Shriver where she said, if this doesn't kill your career, nothing will. Yeah, exactly. After the premiere, they're walking out of the premiere and she's like, well, if this doesn't kill your career, nothing will. Hey. She was right. Nothing did. The only thing that killed his career was becoming governor of California, which is why he does not make a film between 2005 and 2010.
01:08:01
Speaker
Um, the, the movie, the kid and I, which I think is a cameo more than anything, uh, and the expendables where he is a cameo. So yeah. Um, weird.
01:08:15
Speaker
But we'll get into that leg of Arnold's career as we get a little later in this series because we got wasted out. Yeah, exactly. Like we're covering the man's career. So we've got, you know, this early film, we've got a couple of middle ones and then we've got a later Arnold, then we'll cover a lot of the in between of his his politics run and stuff at that point. But.
01:08:35
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I mean, it's all about Arnold April. So we are all about Arnold this month. This movie, Brett, not so good at the box office. It opens in 17 17th place.
01:08:51
Speaker
On 88 screens, it makes $284,000 in its opening weekend, and it opens wide the next weekend, but never gets above ninth place like it just does not do well. Word of mouth on this one is ubiquitously bad.
01:09:07
Speaker
Well, it's a crack the top 10. It did for one week, and then it dropped back down to like 1213. I could try it. It did. It put forth an effort in opening at number one. This is the weekend of June 28th, 1985. Opening at number one is a movie called Pale Rider, a new movie this this week.
01:09:29
Speaker
Not one that I'm familiar with, I'm going to be honest with you. What if there was a pale rider? What if there was a pale rider, I guess. Sure. In second place, the Ron Howard film Cocoon. What if there were old people? Cocoon. That beat us. Beat us. In third place, speaking of Brigitte Nielsen's husband, Rambo, Colin, First Blood, part two. What a weird naming convention for that series.
01:09:54
Speaker
Notorious for it. It's it's first blood Rambo colon first blood part two Rambo three Like what the hell are we doing here? What the hell are we doing here Rambo franchise? Well, that's I mean it's a victim of We had this really successful first movie that we didn't plan to make a sequel out of what do we do now? Oh
01:10:14
Speaker
I don't know. What do we call it? Maybe completely ignore every. I mean, the obvious answer to what do we call a sequel to a movie called First Blood is Second Blood, obviously. Yeah. No, can't do that. No. I don't know why we can't do that. We should do that. They should have. We should be brave enough to do that. It's right there. Right.
01:10:40
Speaker
But no, Rambo Colon First Blood Part Two. In fourth place, also new this week, a little movie called St. Elmo's Fire. Gonna be a man in motion, all I need is a pair of wheels. And... I love that song. I've only seen the movie once, but that song fucking slaps. Just listen to the soundtrack, that's all you need. In fifth place, a movie we have already invoked on this episode, The Goonies, Brett.
01:11:10
Speaker
The Goonies, down from three the week before, in its fourth weekend, it has already grossed $40.7 million. Hell yeah, it has. Hell yeah, it has. And rounding out the top 10, we've got Fletch, the Toby Hooper film Life Force, Pritzse's Honor, Return to Oz, and A View to a Kill, Brett. So, I mean, we've got James Bond, we've got Oz, we've got Chevy Chase, Toby Hooper in the top 10. It's great. And then on number 12,
01:11:40
Speaker
The original Beverly Hills Cop, holding over from the previous year, one of the biggest hits of 1984.
01:11:49
Speaker
Damn. Yeah. You're really stuck around. It's still going strong in its 30th week. It still makes more money than Red Sonja in its opening weekend. Good Lord. Right. Really quickly, let me mention Return to Oz. Have you ever seen Return to Oz? I have not, but I understand it is apparently the movie that traumatized an entire generation.
01:12:13
Speaker
Yeah. Is it on Disney Plus? I should hope it's on Disney Plus. You want to talk about a dark fantasy and the style of Labyrinth and Legend and Willow and whatnot? Damn. So you're a fan of Return to Oz? I am a fan of Return to Oz, 100%. I mean, that does seem, it is absolutely on Disney Plus. Hell yeah.
01:12:37
Speaker
Alright, I'll probably watch that at some point here soon, I guess. Why not? It's not like I have anything else I need to watch right now.
01:12:45
Speaker
So it only grosses two hundred and eighty four thousand dollars and it's opening weekend. It grosses six point nine million domestic and another two point seven thousand dollars internationally. Barely barely cracks.
01:13:08
Speaker
I mean, it doesn't crack 7 million, like under 7 million, off of a budget of $17.9 million. So it's an absolute flop. And again, like I said, this pretty much kills any Robert E. Howard adaptation in the public consciousness for some time. The Tomatometer score on this one is a 19%.
01:13:32
Speaker
The critic's consensus, dull, poorly directed, and badly miscast, Red Sonja is an uninspired conclusion to Schwarzenegger's barbarian trilogy. The meta score is a 35, based on generally unfavorable reviews from six critics. And the letterbox average is a 2.4. Brett, what did you rank 1985's Red Sonja out of five stars? One. Singular star. One.
01:14:02
Speaker
Singular star? I gave it one and a half. Because like I said, there are some things that I do enjoy about this movie. The performances and story aren't one of them, but there are some tangential things that I do enjoy here. But yeah, overall, not a great movie. A movie you can feel free to avoid if you so desire. Not one you really need to rush out to see by any stretch of the imagination. That one star is for Arnold Schwarzenegger and Arnold Schwarzenegger only.
01:14:31
Speaker
There you go. I mean, it is all about Arnold month, so you got to figure we got to sneak him in a star there somewhere. Because, yeah, there's the writing, the acting, the misogyny, the racism, the. Everything else, just all of it. Yeah, is how you say not good. No, in fact, quite bad in point of fact. But but yeah, there it is. That's that's Red Sonia. We are not really fans.
01:15:00
Speaker
I do kind of want to watch the other Conan movies though. I feel like those are good. Which I suppose brings us to the question that you brought up the other day, Brett. Is this a spin-off? Is this a sequel? I would consider this a spin-off, which is why we're covering it here. Are we wrong to cover it? Is it a sequel to the Conan movies? Well, technically, and to be fair, I brought it up at the beginning of the episode. Oh, touche. I've slept since then.
01:15:29
Speaker
Same. So technically, no, it's not because he's not named the same. And we only want to think it's Conan because fans have hand waved it away. I mean, yeah, they've kind of pigeonholed this into some kind of weird continuity, which I mean, that's fan service. That's not.
01:15:51
Speaker
I mean, look, there's more merit to it than usual just because they wanted this to be Conan and they just couldn't. Right. For legal reasons. Yeah. For legal reasons. But still, it's not. I mean, I'm sorry. I know what they intended him to be. And he pretty much is. Except for all the things that he's not.
01:16:12
Speaker
But I mean, he is, though. Yeah. Name something about this character that is not Conan. I'm too shy. He even has the same sword. Sure, sure. More or less. Right. So, yeah, this is Conan. Mm hmm. And don't come from me. I know I've been pronouncing it Conan and Conan. It doesn't matter. It's fine. It's it. We don't care. It's OK. Yeah, I'm not really trying that hard.
01:16:39
Speaker
just getting out in front of the criticism, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Stopping a million tweets, yeah. Yeah, because the millions of followers that we have across all social media. We do. We have lots of celebrities to listen to us. Right, yeah. I mean, we're in talks with a director we legally cannot name right now who's working on disenfranchised the movie.
01:17:07
Speaker
I've probably said too much. Brett, just bleep all that out in the edit. We signed NDAs for a reason. I'm sure we can't talk about it. Well, we can say, be on the lookout for disenfranchised, the movie, the merchandise. Ah, the merchandise.
01:17:28
Speaker
because that's really why we're doing it. Yeah, that's it. And we did get that sweet, sweet Lucas deal where we do get 100% of the merchandising rights. You mean the hot beverage thermal mugs and free balloons for the kids? Yeah.
01:17:42
Speaker
That's the one I'm most looking forward to disenfranchise the flamethrower. That's the one that I've got my eye on. Kids, kids love that one. I'm going to get one for each of my nephews. But yeah, there you go. That's I was that was a Ghostbusters two reference nestled inside of a spaceballs reference. Yes, sir. I'm proud of it. I'm proud of what we've done here today. That's if nothing else, this episode has that going for it. And I think we've done some good work.
01:18:08
Speaker
So yeah, that is our Red Sonja episode of the disenfranchised podcast. Next week, we have another brand new episode on another Arnold Schwarzenegger movie, and it's it's it's bound to be better than this one. God, I hope so.
01:18:26
Speaker
You can hit us up, shoot us an email, distantfranchepodatgmail.com. Let us know how we're doing, how you're enjoying the show. What failed franchise starters do you want to see us cover on the show? Hit us up, let us know. We'd love to cover those for you. You can also find us on all of your social medias, Twitter, Instagram, Letterboxd, and Facebook at
01:18:46
Speaker
Disinfranch Pod. I, me, your host, Stephen Foxworthy, you can find me on Twitter, Instagram, and Letterboxed at Chewy Walrus. Brett, where can we find you on the social medias? You can find me at the aforementioned Warlock-themed screen names on Letterboxd, Instagram,
01:19:05
Speaker
That's it. Suss underscore warlock. I was like, doesn't there another one? Oh, right. I don't have Twitter
Social Media Sanity Break
01:19:13
Speaker
anymore. Right. You abandoned Twitter again. And I'm sure your sanity thanks you for that. You would not believe. I have an idea.
Preview of 'The Last Action Hero'
01:19:22
Speaker
At any rate, join us next week where we are apparently covering the last action hero. So that'll be fun. Better than Red Sonja, for sure. At any rate, I am your host, Steven Foxworthy, for my co-host, Brett Wright, and myself. Until next time, you touch it. Oh, no, it's true. Only women can touch it.