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#204 - Kesia Lupo
3 Plays5 minutes ago
Literary agent, author and former senior editor, Kesia Lupo is back to tell us about her new move into agenting, working across US and UK markets and how she is figuring out the most sustainable way for her to tackle query letters!
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Transcript
The Importance of Writing in Storytelling
00:00:00
Speaker
Ooh, a spicy question. I love it. Because the writing is sort of everything. You can fix plot holes, but if the writing... So some readers love that, and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this. So it's kind of a gamble.
Introduction to Cassie Lupo
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello, and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast. On today's episode, we have a returning guest,
00:00:21
Speaker
formerly a senior editor at Chicken House Books, but has since moved to the US s and become a literary agent. And as if that wasn't enough, she is also an author, ah having published her third YA novel, Let's Play Murder, last year. It's Cassie Alupo. Welcome back. Thank you. It's so good to be back.
00:00:38
Speaker
Yes, it's so nice to chat with you again. So much has changed since we since we last spoke.
Transition from Editorial Work to Literary Agent
00:00:46
Speaker
ah So I'm excited to get into it. Let's start with first and foremost, the headline. and That is that you have not only moved to the US, but you've also moved from editorial into literary agency. Was that something that you'd been thinking about for a while or was it quite spontaneous?
00:01:06
Speaker
It was not something I had considered. um the The main reason was just moving from the UK to the US s on the west coast. um There aren't many publishers on the west coast. I can think of maybe one or two.
00:01:21
Speaker
um but therefore there are very very few editorial jobs and it's still that kind of job that most people expect to be at least hybrid so you're in the office a few days a week um so it's just a case of I need to find a job in publishing because who knows what other industry will have me at this point frankly um and it needs to be remote or something I can do from from the San Francisco Bay Area so The the first job that i first agenting job that I got was was just such a ah listing and it was a full-time salary position that was in publishing and remote. So I just thought, why not? um And yeah, luckily I i really enjoy agenting, so it was a good decision.
Skills Transfer from Editor to Agent
00:02:05
Speaker
Yeah, I mean it does seem like um one of the more common avenues into a becoming an agent is from editorial. Like there's a lot of agents in the UK that I've spoken to who were editors and then became literary agents. So it's not like a wild never but been seen before transition.
00:02:23
Speaker
No, it's very similar that you use a lot of similar skills. The contacts that you built up as an editor will be helpful as an agent, the knowledge base that you have. um So yeah, it it does make sense. It wasn't completely out of the blue. And it was definitely on my radar as like something I could do in the future. But um but frankly, i was I was very happy being an editor. So it was a bit of the like, okay, let's try this now. Let's see what this is like. A bit of a risk, but it has worked out.
00:02:52
Speaker
So if you had, let's say moved to New York where there are lots of publishing houses, would you have applied for more editorial roles? Yeah, absolutely. it was ah That was just the track that I was on and it would have felt very natural to just go into that kind of area. But to be honest, I did apply to quite a few editorial jobs in New York just in case you know I got one and then we could you know relocate there. But um you know it's it's so competitive there. It's just a different world from the whole London scene, um just yeah a whole a whole different thing. So yes This was probably the better, more flexible um option for me anyway in retrospect. It's funny how life often works out that way. Yeah, yeah I did think that's true. and You mentioned the learning curve.
Learning the Sales-Driven Nature of Agenting
00:03:41
Speaker
Has it been relatively like simple then transitioning the two roles or have there been any kind of like big surprises about being an agent that you weren't aware of? um Yeah, it it was a learning curve. um i think so
00:03:56
Speaker
To give like a fuller background, I agented with um an agency called The Bindery for about 14 months and then I lost that job. And probably losing that job was the biggest um learning curve that I encountered because It was basically all to do with money and the fact that being an agent is really a sales position um you know when you really drill down into it. So all of that is very different from being an editor. you As an editor, you you're not really like expected to sell a certain number of copies of any book. like Yes, there's still that kind of pressure of you know acquiring things that are good and acquiring things that will sell.
00:04:41
Speaker
but ultimately like it's a whole team effort. So you you can't really blame any one person for anything that goes wrong. Whereas with agenting, it's pretty much 100% on your shoulders if you can't sell what you take on. um And I actually did pretty well in um comparison to a lot of people. um you know In the first year of agenting, I think because I had all those existing contacts,
00:05:05
Speaker
um And like, you know, it wasn't like I didn't sell anything. I sold like five books and and three of those were, actually four of those were were but big publishers. um Three of them were big five. um So it it cut it was good. It was just that they were paying me a salary that they needed to make back for it to make sense for the business. um So that kind of shock of losing that job, which i've I've never lost a job before, but also realizing like this is ah this is sales. like you know i This is like how how tough it can actually be, was was something that I hadn't...
Challenges and Learning Opportunities in Agenting
00:05:45
Speaker
I mean, it sounds so silly, but i I just hadn't quite expected that to hit me in the face quite so much. like I was like, yeah, yeah, sure, it's pitching. And it's like, you know um all of those sales skills, which I was more than happy to learn, but but that reality of what it is to work in a sales job was was tough. yeah But yeah, i luckily I've now found another agency on a different type of contract and that I think that's going to work out a lot better for me overall.
00:06:15
Speaker
Okay, that's good. Because like, yeah, I was confused because I've spoken to, we have lots of mutual friends and you know, I follow you your, your antics, even as you've gone overseas. But I was thinking like, in your first sort of year of agenting, you've sold a lot of books to publishers. Was that not, was it just not enough? Like, because I i was almost surprised at how many you'd sold and then for you to no longer be at that agency.
00:06:42
Speaker
Yeah, um there's a lot of things that were unique about that agency. So for instance, they really specialize in the Christian market. So they weren't like general market specialists. They're very, very, very good at what they do in the Christian market and more a little more broadly in like nonfiction. um But they didn't have anyone on the team doing fiction.
00:07:06
Speaker
they hired me as like someone to expand the list. um But as a very small business, I think they have, um I mean, it's like seven, six or seven agents, and they've only been going since 2017. They wanted to do the right thing and like, you know, pay a salary and all of that. But as a small business, it just wasn't really sustainable with the returns that I was getting in the moment. And I've kind of like drilled down into this in my sub stack a little bit.
00:07:33
Speaker
But briefly, you know, if you think about the average salary, which is, you know, I don't think I'm being too I don't think I'm divulging too much by saying I was on the average salary, but the average salary in the US is 60,000. And to make that back, you have to sell, I think it's something like half a million worth of contracts.
00:07:55
Speaker
um But the way that payments work with publishers is that they come in thirds. So you're only ever going to receive a maximum of a third of that money in the first year. um And of course, you'll have no existing contracts, no sales or anything. So it is, you know, I was i think I almost got to but advances that would have made back my salary, over or at least sort of 75% of the way there, they would have made back the salary over the coming years. But it wasn't like, within that first year. So I think as a business, they were just like, you know, it's not it's not enough. And I don't think they realized, you know, how um
00:08:39
Speaker
know, you know, they realize intellectually, like they're all very, very, very experienced um in the business. And like, you know, I, we really have parted on great terms. But, um but yeah, in terms of like the the mass market fiction area, um it is more competitive. And it is like, you know, you're just not going to close as many deals, because there's, you know, hundreds of other agents,
00:09:01
Speaker
thousands of, you know, other qualified authors, a diminishing pool of editors, you know, it's just, it's just really tough. So yeah, so it was, you know, that was, that was not great. But actually, it was a great learning experience. And the way I'm thinking about it is, you know, they gave me this opportunity to build a list of authors, most of which I've brought with me. um And I was, you know, I was on a stable full time income while I was doing it. And that is a huge gift. So I'm just really grateful that it all kind of happened in the first place and try not to be down about how it ended. Yeah, i little bit it's looking good now like it's it's and you've landed in ah in a good place as a result of that.
00:09:48
Speaker
Yes, I'm now at the Donald Marce literary agency, which um is much more in the area that I'm interested in. So you know I think they're one of the top agencies, especially for SFF. If you look at them on publishers marketplace, I think they've got like the most deals in that area. And they're just really well respected. Donald's a lovely guy. And we just had, you know, several conversations um before I decided to sign.
00:10:15
Speaker
um So it just feels like a very good supportive place. And instead of being on a salary now, I want to commission agreement, which means that I can work outside of that. And like, so I'm making my money in a different way until I sell something, which although is not, you know, immediately as stable, it is a lot less pressure and a lot less like, um you know, I'm not, I'm not afraid of repeating the same pattern again, which would have been really, really difficult. Yeah.
Joining Donald Maass Literary Agency
00:10:46
Speaker
Yeah, I can imagine. And presumably, in terms of taking most of your list with you, is that... Bindery was kind of happy for that to happen because they, like you say, they focus very much on a on a Christian literature market and your list is not really that.
00:11:01
Speaker
Well, I think they're happy because, you know, whatever happens, I don't know how many people know this, but the agency that you sign your contracts with a publisher with, if that makes sense, they always keep that contract. So it's not like I'm taking the contracts with me, you know, it's taking the authors with me for future contracts. So they should still continue to earn like royalties and stuff like that from those contracts I did sign. um But Yeah, they're they're more than happy for me to take forward the authors because they don't have anyone else there who's really handling the same thing. And because they want to do right by me, like, you know, they're nice people. So, um so they, they, yeah, they, they were very, very um
00:11:44
Speaker
smooth in the whole process of like handing over, like I managed to like almost, almost seamlessly take um submissions that were, you know, say I'd gone on sub with something just before I left. They sort of managed it while I was an agentee and now they've handed it back over to me at a new agency, which I think is pretty unheard of actually to for it to be that, that smooth. So I am really grateful to them. They have handled it very, very well.
00:12:10
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds it sounds like um as amical as it could be given, yeah it's obviously not an ideal situation for
Roles: Author, Editor, and Agent Perspectives
00:12:18
Speaker
for anyone. yeah um I'd love to know, so now that you're an agent, you've been an editor and an author, you have this sort of ah almost but I imagine you're a very select few people who have the perspective of being all three of those roles within publishing. Is it weird now that you're on like this new side of things, like looking back at the other two, having been like sort of right in the middle of those? Yeah, I mean, it feels, um everything is very close, like
00:12:54
Speaker
you know being being an author and working with authors are quite similar because you' you're kind of dealing with the same um worries and concerns and um creative issues and all of that. It's just sort of from the other side and you know you're working with authors as both an editor and an agent in different ways.
00:13:17
Speaker
um you know, it's really interesting. I feel like doing each job has added a little perspective to the other, which is great. And actually, now I'm also book selling part time. So that that is actually even a bigger kind of perspective shift than than either of these three because you're on the other you're on the like,
00:13:37
Speaker
okay it's now a finished product like what happens next which I've never experienced before either. So in fact I would say that um editing and agenting and being an author all feel closer to me than something like book selling or I imagine like marketing or something like that like Do you know what I mean? like They all use the same like similar skills. yeah Whereas, yeah, that that there is there's stuff that's more different in publishing for sure. yeah But it is interesting, definitely. Yeah. Those three are like quite adjacent in terms of like, obviously as a literary agent, you are interacting with editors on one side and the the author. you' You're basically in the middle now, whereas before you were on the two roles either side.
00:14:23
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. It's just like little steps in either direction. um Yeah. But you know, there's there's definitely big differences. And um I, I kind of felt that, well, I think you always feel as an editor that the author and the agent has ah maybe a slightly closer relationship.
00:14:41
Speaker
um And I do feel like that's borne out a little bit for me in that you know you you sometimes work with these authors for you know months and months, if not years before they actually get a deal. So the real um persistence and the length of time that relationship can take and the projects that you work on together and the editorial closeness that comes with that.
00:15:04
Speaker
you know, it sometimes does trump like, you know, the editor then coming in at at the publisher just at the very end of the process. um And it's been really nice to experience that kind of closeness of an agent-author relationship.
00:15:18
Speaker
Okay, yeah, that's interesting to hear about. Because I mean, a lot of authors are do become very close with an editor, especially after yeah doing multiple books. And I'm i'm sure you you know that better than me. But it's interesting to hear that you kind of as a literary agent, york you kind of perceive it now as like, well, the editor only comes in at the end. Whereas I imagine when you were editing, it didn't feel like you were coming in at the end.
00:15:43
Speaker
No, it was like, okay, now we're going to start working on this book. You know, you intellectually know that, like, more has gone on before, but you don't see it. So, so it's been, it's been kind of cool to kind of extend the journey of a book a little bit and, you know,
00:15:58
Speaker
And now I understand, you know, why um agents can can be so important. Obviously, every um relationship is is a little bit different. And and some some authors are probably closer to their editors editors and their agents and all of that. but um But I do kind of now understand why sometimes it's like this, you know,
00:16:19
Speaker
and thank you to my editor but really thank you to my agent who got me this deal and like who worked with me for like five years before on like four different books are like you know now I get it um which is it's really cool to see and experience.
00:16:33
Speaker
Yeah, and I guess if you look at it from purely a business point of view, the agent is signing an author with no money incentive. you know like They'll be together trying to land a deal and there will be nothing. An editor is always being paid to do that role.
00:16:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's just, it doesn't diminish it. um You know, especially if that editor is the one that acquired the book, or it was, you know, closely involved in acquiring the book. um You know, they'll still have so much passion for the project and you know that in some you know, the publisher is where the money is coming from, ultimately. um So, you know, as an editor on a salary, you you don't treat a book differently because it got a low advance or because it got a high advance, as you know, in terms of the actual editing, like it's a standard
00:17:25
Speaker
process. As an agent, like every single project you take on is needs something different to get it to the point where it's ready to pitch. And like you said, you know if you don't sell it, you're not going to earn anything. So you're very much like working alongside and partnering with the author to try and get that sold. So it's kind of just a different balance of of elements, even though you're doing similar jobs.
00:17:50
Speaker
ah Yeah. And i like like you said, I'm sure there's a lot of crossover which, and having been on both sides of the literary agent, I'm sure that you, there's been a lot of things where you're suddenly like, huh, yes, I get it because I've seen this from yeah that side and I've seen it from that side.
00:18:05
Speaker
Yeah, and that's something I think my authors appreciate overall, although I'm sure I could get, um you know, it's, I'm sure it can get annoying when you're like, Oh, I've been there, like, I know that too. Oh, I've already, you know, whatever. But I think overall, it's a good thing to have all of that perspective. And it it's not exhaustive. You know, I have, there's a lot of differences between different publishers and differences between different agencies and how people individually work. So I don't know everything, but it certainly brings a different perspective. For sure. So as a literary agent, well, first of all, I'd love to know how many authors are currently on your list, roughly, if you don't know the exact number.
Cassie's Current Representation and Genre Focus
00:18:48
Speaker
I know the exact numbers. I've had to re-sign every single one of them in the last two weeks. So, 14. Okay, great. which Obviously, you know you're still relatively new in this field. that's You've got a lot of room to grow that list, and presumably that's something you are excited and kind of very actively doing.
00:19:11
Speaker
Yes, and I should acknowledge that I lost a few authors along the way, so between losing one job and getting another, which is really sad. So I did have, a seventeen I think, 17 or 18, 17, I think. um But you know it it'll all yeah that creates a bit more space on the list as well, and as I try and figure out kind of how big my list should be, i can you know have that I can definitely use that extra space. So it is fine. um But I did feel like one of the funny things about moving from being like a full-time salary agent to
00:19:48
Speaker
now being on commission is like I'm gonna be doing the same work that I was doing but sort of squeezed into sort of different spaces so I don't think it's a terrible thing that I've like shrunk my list slightly and I won't be looking to grow it quickly you know I really want it to be sustainable and to be able to give every author on the list like the time that they need. like Because it is a time intensive job where you're reading a lot of stuff and like having a lot of conversations. so So yes, I am looking to grow the list again, but also I want to do it in a ah probably a slower way than I was before in a much more sustainable way.
00:20:32
Speaker
Okay, yeah, that makes sense because and I think the other thing is when you once the list is larger, and this is from agents that I've spoken to, once a lot of the time if you kind of land a book deal, if it's a multi-book deal even better,
00:20:48
Speaker
that author often doesn't need as much attention from you, which is then it's a good time for you to potentially sign, you know, there's now a bit more space in the list and now you can pick up someone else and then that kind of is like an ongoing cycle where ideally you're always finding new publishing deals, which is freeing up more space for you to either take on new authors or double down on on the authors you already have.
00:21:12
Speaker
Yeah, that's the idea. And you know, multi-book deals are great for that reason. I think actually most of the deals I did were like only one or two books, so I may not have quite that um that flexibility, but um but yes, that is the idea.
00:21:27
Speaker
and Okay, right. And an interesting thing I was thinking about with, and this is this applies more to publishers, but I think it still applies to agents. When we talk about like how much room there is on an agent's list, ah is it a big factor for you when you're looking at someone if they are writing in a say in a very similar kind of space or style to and another author that's already on your list? like Is it difficult to have two authors that are would be competing in the same market? Yes, especially though if if they're both like... So if one of them has a deal already and then the other one is like similar, but it's ah you know it's different enough, then you know obviously you're not going to pitch it to the same publisher that already has the first one, but there might there may well be room in the market for
00:22:18
Speaker
you know, if you're if you're seeing demand for that kind of thing, then why not? I think what's more difficult is if you have two authors who are, ah you know, both looking for publishers at the same time, writing in quite a similar space, then you'll you'll essentially be competing with yourself because a publisher will be unlikely to take on both. So that's, that is a serious consideration.
00:22:40
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I can see how that's... Because i've I've also spoken to agents who have been sort of upset that they couldn't sign someone because they just didn't have the... like They loved it, but it's like, I already have two authors who are writing things which kind of are either side of this and it would be too much for me to sign this and then try and be selling all of those. And it is... quite surprising sometimes how close um unrelated like authors who don't know each other, how close they can get in concept as well. um you know like i I'm not going to say what the concept is because it's unfair, but there was there was one author I wanted to take on but lost out on um who wrote a book with a very specific concept.
00:23:23
Speaker
And literally yesterday I read in my um query manager, a book that was honestly nearly identical in concept. It was written in a completely different way with different characters, but it was just too similar. you know it's it's It's quite remarkable how that can happen. and i you know almost 100% sure they'd never spoken, that they just independently came up with this idea, um you know, from two different, very different angles. And it came out very, very similar. um So it it is remarkable how that can happen. and And obviously, anything like that, like you really can't have
00:24:01
Speaker
two of anything with the exact same concept, even if one has sold, because it's just like, literally like another publisher wouldn't take it on, because they'd be like, Oh, this, ah this publisher already has one that's that sounds too similar. So that's a real tough thing as a writer, I think, to, you know, to know that, I guess it gives everyone the feeling that like, unless they get to the concept first, then it will be quote unquote taken. um But I still think it's quite, it's quite rare, like that's a very specific kind of example and what's more usual is a lot of authors writing in a specific sub-genre at the same time and then you have to sort of see what rises to the top, um which yeah as ah as a writer is it's very tough.
00:24:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah i can I can totally see that. And dis especially if so many things are sold on concept at the moment, as in like the pitch is really like, oh, this is the really cool snappy idea. And like you say, if that's already been sold, another publisher is not going to want that because they're going to say, well, that book's already already been published. And like if the concept really is the kind of main selling point of that, it's it's not going to be appealing to do a sort of slightly different version.
00:25:13
Speaker
Yeah, no one wants to be seen to be just following um or or just, you know, just doing the same thing. Everyone wants to be seen to be original. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, which is rough. So for your list, what um what are the sort of age ranges that you're looking at? What are the what are the genres? what are you looking What are you looking at for for queries and and to add to your list?
00:25:38
Speaker
So I'm looking at, at the moment I'm open only to middle grade just for this week. And I'm going to do a system where I open one week per month, but each week, each month ah will be like a different age range and genre with within this spectrum. So just so you know. um So middle grade, YA and adult fiction um genres, i'm I'm pretty flexible, to be honest. ah I can't really think of many that I don't do like one example would be like anything in a super specific um market like police procedurals or
00:26:16
Speaker
um ah can't smith can't think of anything ah else that's sort of similar, but like very, very, psychological thrillers. Yes, well, those psychological thrillers are okay, if they've got a broad appeal, it's kind of those like subsets where I just haven't worked on them. um So the best thing to do is probably like, look at my manuscript wishlist, if you're in doubt, just submit, you know, like, it I I don't, um you know, I don't mind, people I'd rather people submit it and then I get to see what it is and and turn it down if it's not right than people self reject. um So although there's probably some things that aren't for me, like I am very broad, um and I'd rather, you know, see everything within middle grade YA and adult. And then I am doing a small amount of adult nonfiction, um which I started doing
00:27:05
Speaker
towards the end of my time at the binary and so I have um one author who I really really like and want to continue working with so I'm going to just continue to remain open to other non-fiction projects and just see what lands um but that will be within quite specifically sort of historical um cultural history popular psychology um Yeah, those maybe kind of sociological stuff, but like, again, like I'm talking accessible mass market kind of stuff, like I'm not, you know, I'm not going to be going into academic um publishing at all. um So yeah, so those, those kinds of general areas, which is quite broad, and that's why I'm limiting myself a little bit and limiting each
00:27:51
Speaker
ah window of submissions to something different so although it must be quite it may be quite annoying as an author from the other side because you don't want to have to keep checking like oh like what she opens me now it will really help me like manage the quantity of submissions and be very targeted about what you know what I want to take on what gaps are on my list so that's that's the general idea.
00:28:13
Speaker
Okay, right. is this Is this a new system deal implementing from like learning from how you were doing it before? Yes. yeah i I did a thing before where I was like, I want to be open all the time. like I don't like this like opening, closing, like blah, blah, blah. I'm just going to stay open and you know, deal with it. And then I got thousands and thousands of queries. Like I genuinely was like, I think it will trickle off. I think it'll be like there'll be a rush when I open, and then it will like steady out and I'll be getting much fewer because I'll exhaust the the pool. But
00:28:50
Speaker
that never happened. And when I left, I think I still had something like 2000 submissions I hadn't looked at, which is really wow horrible. um And it really stresses me out actually just having that like length of to do list effectively. um So yeah, so this is ah this is what I've learned and what I'm putting in in practice now, um I think it's gonna go a lot better for me.
00:29:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a, I think that is probably a very healthy way of doing it. And also by, you can also then, if you need to catch up on a backlog, you could always take a week off just to catch up and then you can go back on. Yeah. That's an interesting way of doing it. And it also means you can be in a certain headspace. So you can be in your MG headspace, you know. Yeah. And I've seen other agents do similar, I think Louise Buckley actually suggested this to me. And, um, yeah, so I'm really grateful to her. I think she's,
00:29:43
Speaker
ah she's open like the first week of every month and I've seen a lot of the people that do it like most people are open the first week of every month but I've chosen the third week partly because I'm being different and trying to give people more opportunities but partly also because I happen to start ah the job in the second week of the month so I was like okay not gonna wait three weeks to open so yeah so yeah that's the rationale I think you probably also will filter out a lot of the kind of, um, people who are just sort of carpet bombing and sending stuff to every single agent. Because if you're only open specific times, so then people need to know which week it is that you're, you know, which week you're open, which week you're accepting a specific thing. yeah just That's true. Catching stress and getting sense stuff that you would never imagine, uh, representing.
00:30:35
Speaker
Yeah, ah that that has been born out so far, I think, um the ones that I've seen. Yeah. yeah ah Before we saunter back to the desert island, I did want to check one thing. So I know ah at least one of your authors is based in the UK. Well, Naomi is based in the UK, and I know that.
00:30:58
Speaker
So obviously you're living in the US now, um but you have a few authors in the UK. Are you putting any kind of additional focus into the UK or are you doing a kind of completely international list?
00:31:13
Speaker
um i I think I'll always have strong links to the UK. So um most of my contracts, so i I closed one contract with a big five US publisher, but all of my other contracts, um but one, which was a smaller publisher, um are UK. So um Yeah, from, you know, from just from a perspective of like being more known in the UK, and me knowing more editors in the UK, I think it's always going to be um on a par at least with the US, even though I'm physically here. um and I wouldn't want to lose the benefits that, you know, my
00:31:55
Speaker
previous career have basically given me um in terms of grounding me in that market. So it's going to be a completely international list and I'm not going to cancel anyone out because of their location um but I think ah especially US and UK authors because that's going to be, um well and and Irish authors too, because I have a ah fantastic Irish author, who's got a um deal with a um an imprint of Bonnier that's based in in Ireland. And that's worked out great. So I'm going to continue to, you know, basically look at the British Isles as a home market for me, um alongside the US.
Focus on US and UK Markets and British-themed Books
00:32:35
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense. And like you said, that's where you're you'll obviously have such an incredible base of knowledge of just the kind of the vibe and the feeling of how the the the British market operates because the US, I'm sure it's very state by state, but obviously it's very, very different to to to what's kind of what was popular in the US is not the same as what's popular in the UK necessarily.
00:32:57
Speaker
Yeah, there's a bit of crossover, but but especially in children's, it's just a different beast, really. um and i'm And I don't know it as well, you know, I i know the UK better. So for me, it's still, you know, while I'm learning about the US and finding my feet here and like trying to sell more stuff here, um I definitely will continue just um pitching in the UK and actually everything that I've sent on the submission, I've sent on simultaneous submission in both places. And I like that because it's just like,
00:33:27
Speaker
you know, you're just trying to find a deal for the author, the best deal, you know, why limit yourself to just one territory, you know, you can yeah double their chances, of not quite because the UK is not quite as big, but you know what I mean, you can definitely increase their chances. Yeah, absolutely. And I've heard that. ah I was speaking to an agent recently and and she was saying that very kind of UK like British themed middle grade is doing quite well in the US.
00:33:56
Speaker
Oh, that's interesting. I hadn't heard that, but um but I'll have to investigate. I mean, i I do get, you know, oh, it's too British sometimes. yeah um So I haven't had the opposite, but I like that idea and I hope that that agent is right. Maybe you have to explore that a little bit.
00:34:17
Speaker
fingers crossed. um yeah Okay, we are at the time where we head over to the desert island. Of course, you have been to the desert island already. and the Do you remember what you chose last time? Yes, I think I did. I think I chose the Gormangast trilogy. You did, yes. yeah Some classic fantasy. Which I think I stick with. Yeah, because i I think the rationale was like, I want to get lost in a different world and I need something like big and complicated to kind of engage my mind because I'm going to be so bored. um And you know, actually, the Gormagash trilogy is one of the more difficult, I think, fantasy series I've ever read, like it wasn't like any, it's not just like a, you know, you skim through it as an easy read or whatever, it's
00:35:04
Speaker
you know, it's challenging and there's a lot of moving parts and a lot of things to understand. But I think that's a benefit. So I'm gonna, yeah, I'm gonna stick with it. Nice. I like that conviction.
00:35:17
Speaker
um Next up, we are going to chat queries, cover letters and all that jazz, but that will be in the extended episode available on Patreon. um If you're not sure. Yeah, definitely.
00:35:32
Speaker
definitely There you go. Amazing. Well, thank you so much Cassia for coming on the podcast and catching up with me and telling us all about everything you've been up to and everything you're working on at the moment. It's been awesome chatting with you. Oh, it's been great. Thanks Jamie.
00:35:45
Speaker
And for anyone wanting to keep up with what Cassia is doing, you can follow her on Twitter at Cassie Lupo on Instagram and threads at Cassie Lupo author. And if you are thinking about querying, head over to the mass agency website where you can find the link to Cassia's query tracker, as well as a refresher on all the things that she's looking to add to her. list. To support the podcast, like, follow and subscribe, join the Patreon for ad-free extended episodes and check out my other podcasts The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes. Thanks again Cassia, and thanks to everyone listening. We will catch you on the next episode.