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S2 Ep30: Packers Narrowly Escape Panthers
63 Plays1 year ago
Aloha and Welcome to another episode of OPE! This week we deep dive into the sloppy win over the bottom dwellers Carolina Panthers. We look a the highs from the offense and the rock bottom from the defense.
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Image made using hotspot.ai
Please make sure to give us a subscription and drop us a like. Also, please make sure to check us out at ohanapackers.org
Image made using hotspot.ai
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Transcript
Packers vs. Panthers Recap
00:00:26
Speaker
Aloha and welcome back to another episode of the Hana Packers edition podcast. The podcasts were two dudes from, well, this time not quite halfway around the world as I'm on Christmas vacation in California. So we're only a couple of time zones apart, but I'm Mike and that's Iowa Joe. Joe recapping finally another Packers win as Green Bay beats the lowly Carolina Panthers.
00:00:50
Speaker
in the most apropos way for this team to do it as far as this roster staff is constructed. But it's good for the Packers to get a win. Joe, how's your Christmas Eve going so far? Well, considering I'm still locked in my room with the COVID, it's all right.
00:01:12
Speaker
You know, it's been about a week. I'm feeling somewhat better. I got to go back to work tomorrow, so. But it's not a Christmas. I've never been a Christmas guy, but it's even worse now when you're an adult and you don't have the joys as you did when you have it when you were a kid. So I know you guys are probably prepping all kinds of things for the little ones and.
00:01:35
Speaker
all that stuff. But it is what it is. The win was disgusting. I mean, this says it all. I was reading from one on Twitter where one of the guys that was on the sidelines tweeted out where some Packer fan threw a plate of nachos into Joe Berry's face as they were leaving the field.
00:02:01
Speaker
And this has been like the second time in three weeks that somebody's hit Joe Berry with something. And that just sets the mood as it is. You know, these guys were two and 12 going into today's game.
Bryce Young's Performance
00:02:16
Speaker
And, and for obvious reasons, we didn't get to do our preview. So we got to kind of catch up a little bit here, but
00:02:23
Speaker
Um, you know, Bryce young hadn't thrown a touchdown pass in almost a month. And today he throws for what was it? Two touchdowns and probably almost 300 yards. No, he was at three. We'll get into it, but he had never thrown for two 50 as an NFL quarterback and he throws for three 12 today. So yeah. Yeah.
00:02:48
Speaker
But let's start with the
Jordan Love's Quarterback Skills
00:02:50
Speaker
good. Let's let's start with the good side since it is the holiday season and the good news for Packers fans is Jordan Love continues to.
00:02:59
Speaker
look like the guy as the quarterback of this offense. And for the first time in a while, the Packers got a balanced attack on offense, 369, nice, yards of offense today. But pretty decent balance, net yardage, accounting for sacks, 207 in the air, 162 on the ground today. But overall, Jordan Love,
00:03:25
Speaker
You know, I would say a good B, B plus game today. Saw the highlight throws, his two touchdown passes were really nice throws, especially the first one to Wix where he, you know, no one likes to, you know, I know it's beating a dead horse and all that kind of stuff, but it did look a lot like what Aaron would do in terms of maneuvering the pocket, finding way up through the B gap, and then, you know, kind of
00:03:50
Speaker
running parallel to the line of scrimmage to his right and finding Wicks in the front of the end zone but you know throwing the catch both the reminiscent of the one in the Super Bowl against the Steelers where Rodgers hit uh Jennings in the end zone and you know almost the same exact type of thing we're even down to the nitty gritty where Wicks takes a hit as soon as he catches it so
00:04:14
Speaker
Yeah, he had some pretty ones today. Yeah, yeah. So wasn't his best percentage. You know, I think he there was a point where he was above 60%, you know, with like 20 passes, but, you know, ends up 17 for 28. But still, you know, healthy yards per attempt average was almost at eight yards per attempt. So that's what you'd like to see. And
00:04:39
Speaker
clean game, two touchdowns, no interceptions, no fumbles, did take the one sack. I wasn't able to watch much of this game, and I haven't had a chance to get back to it yet, but the parts that I did see, it looked like, you know, love was just his calm collected self and was in control of the offense, but Joe, did anything stick out to you in particular for today's game from Jordan?
00:05:07
Speaker
It seemed like he had some pretty clean pockets. I mean, they did get a little bit of pressure on him. There was one bad sack that he took that I don't know if it was his fault. I don't know if it was Myers' fault.
Packers' Offensive Challenges
00:05:23
Speaker
I don't know if...
00:05:24
Speaker
you know, what happened, but they had a free runner. The linebacker had a free run into get the sack and he took quite a hit on it. Uh, from my untrained eyes, looking at it, it looked like Myers missed the block, but it also could have been Jordan missed the
00:05:43
Speaker
the pre-snap call, the adjustments, I don't know. But other than that, there were some bad drops. Obviously Jordan was playing without quite a contingent of receivers.
00:05:58
Speaker
Didn't have Jaden didn't have Christian Obviously doesn't have must grave Wicks lock left the game at one point. Yep And then it looks late at the game. It looked like even craft may have got some kind of ding I don't know if he was holding his wrist or if he was holding his ribs, but after that last catch he had it he took quite a hit and
00:06:22
Speaker
Although I have to say this about Tucker, if you want to survive in the league and you want to have kids someday, I don't know if he has kids already quit jumping up and taking shots. Um, that's going to do you. I mean, it looks pretty on the field, but it definitely isn't going to feel good if you continue to do that. Uh, but he looked good today.
00:06:46
Speaker
Even Bo Melton kind of had a breakout game today and looked pretty good. Overall, the offense was decent, so I loved seeing them continuously feed Aaron Jones. I wonder if they kind of backed off a little bit late after the the hit he took from.
00:07:06
Speaker
I want to say it was the linebacker that got the sack on Jordan on that free run because I was really surprised that didn't get called a penalty just because of the way the hit went.
00:07:20
Speaker
Jones was breaking it off the end and wasn't really tucked. And the guy just threw his shoulder and that right into Jones's head. And, you know, we've seen that be called a penalty before, you know, I, and one way I'm glad they didn't, but in the other way, it's like, well, you know, you've been calling that already. Why aren't you calling it now? Type of thing. But.
00:07:45
Speaker
Overall, you know, again, the offense as a whole just seemed to really click. I mean, there were times that you question, play, call, you question this, you question that. I really didn't pay much attention to the rotation. So I don't know if they, I did see Sean Ryan played a good chunk of snaps. So I don't know if they left him in or if they played a rotation still. Um, so.
00:08:11
Speaker
Yeah, the offense definitely is not a spot that you can complain about today.
00:08:16
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, anytime you're putting up 30 plus, you know, and I know that the Panthers aren't a great team, but they they have had assault. You know, Evero has turned around their defense that they've been a strong unit on that side of the ball and ascending unit of defense the second half of the season. So it's good to see the Packers put together. You know, I think the broadcast cap, at least for the parts of the first half, I could watch the broadcast kept circling back to that whole point that the Panthers haven't allowed a 300 yard passer.
00:08:45
Speaker
either all season or for a while this season and stuff. So like I said, that was why it was even more important for this offense to be balanced today. And like you said, it was good to see them get to that point because obviously you don't want Jordan taking too many of those kind of
00:09:03
Speaker
blow up hits like that. And those things are gonna happen when you're a first time starter.
Aaron Jones' Impact and Comparisons
00:09:10
Speaker
We've heard all season that he's got a command of the offense and that he knows how to make the reads, how to make the line calls and stuff. But you're gonna make mistakes. We see veteran quarterbacks make those kind of mistakes. So having him, excuse me.
00:09:25
Speaker
Having him go through that and be able to lean on a strong running Dave by this defense or by this offense is just so important against a team like the Panthers who can bring pressure and it's good to see that. Excuse me. Brian Burns didn't have too much of a deep play today. Oh yeah, no, he did play so no quarterback hits for Brian Burns today and actually just very little production period.
00:09:53
Speaker
Yeah, just two recorded quarterback hits for the Panthers as a whole. I know that one of them got taken away, yet her gross mottos had a roughing the passer penalty. It was one of those where it's kind of a bang-dang play, but it kind of did look like he got love up under the chin area and stuff. And you know that refs are going to just
00:10:15
Speaker
Um, play it air on the side of caution on those kind of calls. It was another game today where it seemed like there were some questionable calls on both sides because even early on, uh, uh, I know we texted about, yeah. Yeah. You know,
00:10:30
Speaker
You would have thought he killed the punter, but you know, he barely got ahold of his ankle or his leg, his plant leg. And they called it roughing instead of what are the two calls that can either be roughing the kicker or.
00:10:45
Speaker
running into the kicker, running into the kicker. So instead of calling it running, they called it roughing. And so it was the major penalty on that. And it's like what I saw of it. And I'm kind of like, Mike, I had a hard time with watching the game just because it wasn't on in my area. So I, like I told Mike, I had to do some voodoo type stuff just to watch the game. And so I missed a lot of the first part.
00:11:11
Speaker
But what I, that moment that I did catch, it didn't look like he even hit him. It just looked like maybe, you know, he might've smacked the plant foot or something. And, but if somebody else watched it and can very, you know, say what, or Michael go back later and watch the game or whatever, but it really didn't look like much. And then, um, what was the other one? There was a, uh,
00:11:36
Speaker
I think there was a roughing against the Packers that may have been kind of a questionable one also where he didn't really take a hit. He just got more shoved and they called it a roughing, which kind of helped them out a lot because they were driving and, um, it put them in better field position to go for the score.
00:12:02
Speaker
So again, it was one of those games that it went against both sides. So you can't complain about it too, too much because at least they were being fair on bad calls for both sides. I guess if you want to call it that.
00:12:15
Speaker
Yeah. And from what I'm gathering on Twitter, the Packers didn't even have the worst of the referee roulette today. Anyone who watched parts of that Dallas Dolphins game saw what was, I think on back to back drives, two of the worst, roughly the passer penalty calls of the season. And I mean, that's saying a lot because it's been a weird season for
00:12:40
Speaker
personal foul penalties as a whole. But I mean, like kind of like you said, Joe, that's part of the game at this point. So it was good to see the Packers overcome that. But we kind of alluded to it. Really nice game from Aaron Jones coming back. You know, people are going to always comment on his usage and how many carries he gets. Not so much how many carries he gets, but and I do agree with the idea that there shouldn't be a drive where he doesn't touch the ball and stuff.
00:13:10
Speaker
Yeah, the things that are working against Jones is he's always kind of been a smaller back. Um, he's had some injury questions, um, dating back to his days in college and in the pros, you know, that hasn't turned out to be any different. So, and then especially when you consider this season, it's coming off a hamstring pull and MCL tear. Um, and so.
00:13:32
Speaker
you can only put so many carries on a guy like that and he is getting older so 21 carries even if he had been fully healthy for the season I honestly do think that's about as many rushing carries you want on Jones at any point uh at any game at any given time of a season but it was really good to see him you know right off the right off the jump
00:13:52
Speaker
uh he had some explosive runs on the first Packers series and it was good to see him carry it out through the rest of the game and obviously that's you know it's not just him the O-line blocked the front the Panthers front really well but you know this whole season other than week one prior to the hamstring injury Jones didn't look super explosive this season he kind of
00:14:12
Speaker
You had, you kind of question, you started to get that, you know, dark thoughts in the back of your head. It's like, okay, is it just the hamstring injury? Is it just the MCL? Is it getting older? I kind of disagree with you with that one, Mike. Because you said early in the season, well, the only game he played early in the season was...
Running Back Strategy and Contracts
00:14:32
Speaker
And I don't know how much more explosive you can get. I think that Bears game and this one has been his highest total yards in. I was trying to look it up here real quick. And yeah, what I'm getting at is like in between these two, you know, you didn't have this data point before today's game. So it does, you know, he's approaching 30, which is the age that most running backs, the wheels,
00:15:00
Speaker
You know, figuratively and literally do tend to fall off, but that's why I thought it was good to see Jones have this kind of a game again. And I know the Panthers aren't the best run defense, but any NFL defense that you can average six yards a pop on, I think it's just a good day. So it was, it was, but you know, the one thing that they did well.
00:15:19
Speaker
Yeah. The one thing they adjust, they just didn't let it happen, you know, and say, Oh, well, we'll just, we're going to let them have this. They adjusted and that's why it looked like Jones wasn't getting as free as he was earlier in the game. They adjusted to him and they knew how banged up the Packers were in the receiving.
00:15:39
Speaker
And that they adjusted to him and he now still he averaged six yards of carry for 127 yards today you're not I mean, that's amazing and even I want to say it was Robert Smith and I can't think of the other guy that was doing the commentating they said that if he or he's already at
00:16:04
Speaker
What is it there? There's only three people in the league or in all the NFL history that have averaged like five, five yards of carry Aaron Jones, Jim Brown, and I'm blanking on the Adrian Peterson, Adrian Peterson. And well, how much better
00:16:27
Speaker
how much better company can you have, you know, one of the best running backs in ever. And Jim Brown, another top tier running back. I don't give him best because of the whole, uh, child abuse thing for him, but, um, you know, still one of the top running backs.
00:16:50
Speaker
And then Aaron Jones, that just shows how good of a player he could be if he, and they said, even if, if he stayed healthy, you know, the sky's the limit for him, which is agreed. When he came out, when the Packers drafted him, I really likened him to a Darren Sproles where they were going to be a playmaker, but they were going to have to be a gadget type playmaker just to keep them healthy.
00:17:13
Speaker
And you could see that in both third games where Sproles wasn't really the up the gut type runner. He was more of the, the boundary type guy or the gadget type guy or the guy that you threw on special teams to make a play to have a good career. But I think he's still got, I mean, obviously we got to see what happens when he, when the season ends, but I think he's still got a good couple of years left in him.
00:17:41
Speaker
Yeah, I do too. I think that one of the things that they've got to do this offseason is, you know, Jones has made it so apparent and clear that he wants to be in Green Bay, that he likes playing for the Packers, he loves being a Packer, and that there is some sort of
00:18:02
Speaker
You know coming to the coming together at the table that he and good are gonna do this offseason to Make sure that he's here. Like you said for at least two to three more seasons I know he is technically under contract but I get the feeling that they're gonna do something kind of similar to what they did this offseason where You know for all intents and purposes Jones just gave back money to the team there There's no real way there wasn't any sort of like the funny money business or anything like that. He just I think the
00:18:31
Speaker
the fine print mechanism of what he did was he basically gave up some bonus money or something like that. So I do think he deserves to get paid what he's worth. And that's where I think that they kind of do one of those, sign him to a new extension kind of things and stuff. But
00:18:52
Speaker
I think that what they should be looking at doing for the running back room is, you know, making sure Jones is here for at least a couple more seasons. But then that's the whole thing is like, you don't have to look for a Derek Henry type or a this or that. Just find more Aaron Joneses. I think that's what has been the folly of the packers. You know what we need? The Jamal Williams type. Because that's the type of runner you need. You know, one that can do what you want AJ Dillon to do.
00:19:21
Speaker
but also can do what Aaron Jones can do. This is ancient history, of course, but I understand not wanting to sign both Aaron Jones and Jamal Williams to major contracts.
00:19:38
Speaker
You, you hoped you could have, but you knew it wasn't going to happen. They weren't going to sign both of them. It was going to be one or the other. Now hindsight's kind of 2020 on that with the Aaron Jones injuries or whatever, but they did kind of make the better choice because Aaron Jones is more of the explosive playmaker, but you need that Jamal Williams type to go with an Aaron Jones.
00:20:03
Speaker
Yeah, Dylan has shown the last few weeks that he can, what he can do, but it's still all potential with him. I still believe he's gone at the end of the year. And we definitely please for the love of Chuck, get rid of fucking Patrick Taylor.
00:20:22
Speaker
That guy is Jag. I, I, I can't, and I hate saying about that because I'm, you know, I'm a big Packer supporter. I believe we're all Packer family. That's why we named our frigging podcast. What it is. We're a family, players, fans, coaches, staff, everything. It's a family, the fertile of the love of everything. Patrick Taylor is not good.
00:20:48
Speaker
Now granted, they shot themselves in the foot that they had to call up. Uh, what was it? It was Benny sap and, um, yeah, so they couldn't bring up. Yeah. So they, they couldn't bring up Kenyon Drake with him, but so cut Taylor and signed Drake works for me because he showed today. He just really isn't anything.
00:21:15
Speaker
when they needed him, he couldn't do anything. I think that's the one down spot of this game. Yeah, and LaFleur's usage of Taylor was weird because
00:21:30
Speaker
I understand using Taylor as the two minute back, you know, the concept of it makes sense and all, but if you actually have Jones and he's healthy and he's not supposedly on a snap count, there is no point for Patrick Taylor to be getting two snaps at the end of the first half that, that matter or running in a situation to make a field goal kick a worst kick or anything like that. Yeah. I, you know,
00:21:55
Speaker
Every coach has had a big key player. And I, similar to the next guy, we're going to talk about pretty soon, but I don't understand why Lafleur keeps trying to make Patrick Taylor a thing. Like I said, the, the former player in me can't stand the fact that he blew two, you know, two weeks in a row, he blew get out of bounds in two minute drill situations. And he wanted to run out of bounds today on one of the carries. You saw him, he, he could have went straight and instead he kept cutting towards the sideline.
00:22:26
Speaker
It's like, what is going on in that head? And here's the stat line, three carries, four yards, 1.3 average. Then you come down here, one reception for negative one yard. I think my dog could have that much of a friggen stat line.
00:22:44
Speaker
Yep. So yeah, the sooner they get, you know, we saw, let me, let me, let me take a step back.
Controversial Catch and NFL Rules Discussion
00:22:53
Speaker
I'm not calling Patrick Taylor a dog and I'm not trying to disrespect Taylor in that way. And I'm not disrespect disrespecting dogs in any way. So before anybody comes at me on that, just, that's not what I'm saying. I'm just calling it like we see it. Yeah. Right. And he's, he's a jag.
00:23:09
Speaker
Yeah, there is, you know, we talk about it all the time where they churn. They churn the bottom of the roster and all that kind of stuff. But just you got to just get someone better. And, you know, Emmanuel Wilson is has been elevated elevated, but he's been designated to return. Maybe he's back. And, you know, that wouldn't be keeping Taylor over him at this point, because
00:23:37
Speaker
the little bit we've seen of Wilson just don't let him throw the ball but the little bit we've seen of Wilson I'll take what he he offers over Taylor at this point so that's all he can he can't be anywhere yeah but um more good news on offense though like we kind of highlighted earlier the o-line blamed well
00:23:57
Speaker
Um, and the receiving group played well. Um, you know, it was another day where they spread the ball around that is not as evenly as they had in certain other weeks, but you know, part of that is due to the fact that wicks lift early. Um, you don't have Watson, you don't have read, but you know, you had three guys with four catches, uh, between Dobbs craft and Melton wicks probably would have had more if he had it hurt his chest. Yeah. Oh, Mike froze.
00:24:28
Speaker
technical difficulties, people. I'm going to get elevator music on here at some point and start playing that because that way I don't have to sit here and try to make things up. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.
00:24:51
Speaker
And I can't tell you where, I can't tell you where because I started humming elevator music until you came back. All right. All right. We're stepping back. So, uh, something about O-line played well. Okay.
00:25:06
Speaker
Yeah, so O-line, like we said, the O-line had a solid day. I know that Dylan and Taylor didn't necessarily have good days running the ball, but when your most important running back goes for over 120 and goes at six yards a pop, that's a good day in the office for the O-line. And
00:25:28
Speaker
you only give up two quarterback hits in one sack. That's another good productive day for that group of five. I know that Runyon and Ryan did rotate because I didn't watch yet. I can't tell you if it was every other series kind of thing, but West Hod was on top of it and was on top of the rotation. And I believe I saw a tweet from Wes later on that it was a, it was a, what's it called? Rashid Walker.
00:25:55
Speaker
only or predominantly mostly games so I thought he from what I saw of the game I thought he played pretty well today. I do think that he is an ascending player. I'm not sure if he's set to be the left tackle next year or if they're gonna you know play some musical chairs or whatnot but
00:26:13
Speaker
He does look like he is a starter and you know it's just a matter of how much or do they try to look for a better player in the draft but Walker is at least a good contingency plan for the team moving forward there so you've kind of you know you've shuffled that out of the deck this season and then the receiving corps you had a balanced day from the receivers
00:26:35
Speaker
No one ran away with receptions, but also no one ran away with targets that were like unproductive. So yeah, Dobbs, Kraft, and Melton all go for four receptions. Melton was the lowest average at 11 yards per catch. Wicks definitely would have had a more productive day, but he was two for two. That's what we were talking about before he froze.
00:26:59
Speaker
Um, and you know, it's just good to see these young guys continue to make plays. Um, funny note on Dobbs's day, uh, I, I still don't really have a good opinion on the play. Um, the reason I didn't get to watch much of this game is, um, my, we had a shotgun baptism
00:27:16
Speaker
my daughter so I'll leave it at that but um I did see uh Adam Phelan's post-game comments about you know his sour grape comments about how oh well they reviewed it and it went in the favor of Green Bay and that's what happens when you play the Packers and it's like and on the other side you have Dob saying I took three steps and then the ball came out I don't know what everyone's complaining about so
00:27:41
Speaker
It's like, yeah. Well, I'm assuming that's the one where he lands on his ass and then rolls over. Yeah. Well, I know this is bias because of, you know, being a Packer fan and a Packer content creator and all that. But even the commentators were saying the same thing. He caught the ball. He secured the catch. He landed on his ass. Then he rolled out of bounds and then the ball came out. That's a completion.
00:28:11
Speaker
Because as soon as his ass hits the ground and somebody touches him, he's down. Even if they didn't touch him, the next thing that happens is he hits out of bounds. So that's a down. And that's the problem that the NFL has created with the whole surviving the ground rule is like,
00:28:30
Speaker
where does surviving the ground end and they have in the past ruled like oh no that guy is clearly down that ball was ripped out after he survived the ground and stuff like that so um and and from what i've read and what i the few like clips that i've seen i was like that's a cat you know like it's it's one of those where
00:28:53
Speaker
Okay, as much as you know, we everyone's kind of beaten the desk catch no catch to death and stuff like that. What what makes that play different than most of these is that play was fluid enough that you were if you watch it, you're like, Oh, did he complete it or not kind of thing and stuff. And where whereas this Dobbs one and a bunch of these other ones where it's like you let them Zapruder film it apart for like minutes on end and stuff. And it's like,
00:29:22
Speaker
okay wait he caught it did something fell over scratched his ass and then fumbled the ball and it's like oh like yeah there's a difference between the two so like you said we're we're both biased in a sense but to me there's bias to it and it's hard not to be but yeah there's
Defensive Critiques and Coaching Concerns
00:29:42
Speaker
I would like to say that it's one of those words. It's it's like, yeah, it's a catch. Get over it kind of thing and stuff. I just thought it's funny that it's hilarious that Thielen left the Vikings and still sounds like a sour grapes Viking. He's so far past his prime and he's out there throwing out these stupid comments about, oh, that's what happens when you play the Packers. And I know everyone's like, we're the most penalized team, like just chill, bro.
00:30:12
Speaker
But yeah, but I think we probably should move on to our least. I don't like talking about so negative, but no, we're going to do it here. Almost ruining Christmas Eve for the Packers and their fans. Joe Barry.
00:30:30
Speaker
As we noted earlier, Bryce Young, this is not the Bryce Young winning the Heisman and potentially winning it back to back with Bama the last two years. No, this is Bryce Young in the NFL on one of the worst teams in the league with a bad offensive line.
00:30:47
Speaker
minimal proven weapons Like I said dude hadn't thrown for two feet like forget like he hadn't done it in a while he hadn't thrown for 250 yards in his career and All he does is have his best day as a pro by far yeah, I guess the first two touchdowns, yeah and
00:31:13
Speaker
You know, and on top of that, look at what his receivers did. DJ Chark went for 98 yards and two touchdowns. Adam Thielen went for 94 yards. Uh, Tommy Trimble went for 59 yards, even in mere Smith Marsett, which I'm not going to say horrible things about Hawkeye players, but he definitely is not.
00:31:34
Speaker
A great receiver by no means had one catch for 18 yards and went for two carries for 33 yards. It's including a touchdown on an end around.
00:31:45
Speaker
I, there's no excuse for this and look for it sometime this week. I do have an article and maybe Joey will throw in and we'll split an article about possible defensive coordinator replacements, but it's time. I'm really surprised that they just don't cut ties now. I know I've said forever that they're not going to do it. They're not going to do it, but
00:32:09
Speaker
it feels like it needs to be done and like not even forget like we don't need to go into the the on the field stuff it's the same crap every week predictable zone coverages offenses just you know like and that's the thing is like
00:32:25
Speaker
whether it's Barry not even disguising his coverages or just calling the same thing in the same situation so that the opponent knows what's coming for him and how to exploit it. It's the same shit different day. Barry is the walking embodiment of that phrase. But what my problem with this whole situation is now is LeFoure's post-game comments today where
00:32:48
Speaker
he kind of alluded to no like I'm not ready to go there you know he kind of again doubled down on the whole not ready to have that discussion yet honestly it was disappointing that the defense led up you know you know after we had gone up 30 to 16 it was disappointing to see the defense let up the scores and stuff and it's like okay yes guys need to play better but
00:33:13
Speaker
how can you definitively say that it is purely on the players when your defensive coordinator is such an open book that forget open book exams the answers are just on the test next to the exam like that's how bad Barry's been as a coordinator and I tweeted after the game I was like the way he called the fourth quarter of this game it honestly felt like one of those yeah fire me let me see if you have the balls to do it kind of things because
00:33:43
Speaker
I have no idea what to describe Barry's game planning and play calling at this point. It just defies my logic at this point. So I have two points.
00:33:56
Speaker
My first one I'm going to make is not necessarily just a packer thing, but it's an overall, I think they just need to stop doing coach press conferences because you never get anything worthwhile out of them. It's always coach cliche. It's always coach talk that you just, I mean, yeah, randomly you'll get a coach going in there all pissed off and we'll say some shit or whatever.
00:34:17
Speaker
but it don't happen very often. So let's just stop with the, the circus stop. I know the reporters want their sound bites and stuff like that, but I, I, I hate to say it like this because I love writing and I, and I was a journalism student and you know, West hot is a really great writer and we've got some really great beat writers on this team or on the Packers team, but.
00:34:45
Speaker
That's why journalism is going downhill. Because all these fake press conferences where the coaches just give it up and give a bunch of coach speak and a bunch of generic terms and cliches and stuff like that, it just makes for the same content over and over and over again.
00:35:06
Speaker
Maybe they should start finding a coach for every cliche that he makes him in a, in a 20 minute press conference or something. But you're, you're never going to get answers out of it because in the way they do things, you're never going to have the floor go out there and say, yeah, he's shit canned. He's gone tomorrow. It never happens.
00:35:31
Speaker
And I completely forgot what point number two was off the top of my head. It's this whole COVID fog right now, but, um, Joe Berry. Oh, I know what the other point was. You could even see on the field in certain areas where the players were, could see what was going to happen, but they just went with the play call.
00:35:54
Speaker
There was one of the catches where it was either, um, Thelin or it was Trimble got wide open over the middle. Jair followed him out, excuse me, on his zone route and then passed off to the, uh, safety. Well, the safety is trying to cover over here in his zone. And you could see Jair just see the guy and he just stayed in the zone.
00:36:25
Speaker
I mean, he, I know he's a playmaker. I know he could make the play, but he's following the scheme. He's following his job. He's following where the coach tells him to go. And you saw that too often today where they were just, you could see that their eyes were following where the play was going to.
00:36:44
Speaker
But they weren't moving over to make the play because that's not part of getting called out for not following the call afterward. Like, yeah. And that's the part that I was kind of alluding to where I'm like, the floor is letting this become a problem that I don't know if he's going to be able to fix. Like, yeah, you.
00:37:04
Speaker
I tweeted after the game and it's gotten, you know, mostly, it's mostly gotten, quote unquote, praise and likes and stuff like that. But, you know, there's been some pushback. It's like, how can you say that that's what's definitely happening? I said, look at Jair's comments after the game. And I know some people are going to say like, oh, you can't take Jair's comments at face value because he's, you know, he's a disgruntled star and he's faking an injury and blah, blah, blah. But I'm like,
00:37:28
Speaker
He, you know, Snymon tweeted it. You know, Snymon's tweet is like, is it worrisome that you gave up 30 points to a two in team? Jair. Yeah, it is honestly. But we got to just play the call. That's called, the play that's called. Kind of like you were alluding to.
00:37:44
Speaker
everyone's like oh we've seen this formation on film they probably know that the coverage they're in sucks against it but oh like and I don't know who's who was on whose side in the whole Jerry Gray versus Joe Barry thing last year I don't know if there's more of the same that's kind of you know if it's just on the players this season and you remember there were some odd points
00:38:09
Speaker
in the season two where like I think it was after the London game where both Amos and Savage kind of bristled at the because someone questioned them like oh it feels like the coverage from the safeties hasn't been that good this season so far and blah blah and I think it was actually Amos which was even more surprising but Amos kind of pushed back like hard and was like
00:38:30
Speaker
hey, like, that's not my fault. We're doing what we're, quote unquote, supposed to do. But, you know, and he didn't say like, because he was trying to like, call out the coaches without calling out his teammates, right? Because he's gonna get in trouble. Yeah. And you
00:38:46
Speaker
between the lot and that's how I you know some people are already saying like oh like don't listen to Jair he's just trying to cover up that he had a bad game and blah blah blah but like you said it's like he knows he should just follow a guy but he knows that in film review it's like oh yeah you broke up this player or you made them look away from this guy who might be open but
00:39:07
Speaker
oh you left this other guy open instead and it's like well we got guys who don't either don't know how to hand off coverage or just playing band coverage and whatever and it's like
00:39:20
Speaker
And even when we, quote unquote, play your screen correctly, Joe, it doesn't freaking work. So do you want us to win the game or do you want us to play your stupid ass system so you can go up there and say, oh, we should have just executed better. And yeah, that's the part where I think you and I are on the same side where it's like on the same page where it's kind of like that.
00:39:43
Speaker
Are you really going to let this shit go for? And, you know, this is the whole thing with the very higher and the retention and all that kind of stuff is it's like.
00:39:52
Speaker
I don't care who he was to you. You, I don't think he coached or he coached with Barry in Washington, I guess, but that was a decade ago, basically. I don't care that Shanahan, that Kyle Shanahan recommended to you heavily. I don't care how he's regarded around the league. He sucks. Like it's, it's just been proven. He sucks. And yeah, but even like Brian mafia and that are
00:40:19
Speaker
Pointing out he's a Nepo baby just like I have a hard time with the University of Iowa and Nepo babies, you know, he's he's Dan Quinn son-in-law so Yeah, whatever, but I just I honestly think had they lost today There'd been no way to justify it
00:40:41
Speaker
not getting rid of. Now, like I've been pointing out to people, it's not that easy just to get rid of them because then you have to decide who's going to take the interim position. Are you going to trust Jerry Montgomery to do it? Are you going to trust a live a Dottie to do it? Are you going to trust a Greg Williams to do it?
00:41:01
Speaker
I honestly like and I know that that's a concern of you know for some at all and my whole thing is I don't care. I really don't care because my whole my overarching point is that the comments that Lafleur made after the game some of the guy the comments some of the guys like Jair are making after this game
00:41:22
Speaker
the floor if you don't support your players you're doing you know you're doing calm to your image within that locker room because you're always going to be the guy on some level that
00:41:35
Speaker
We know this guy's an idiot that's coaching us, but our head coach is either blinded or also an idiot and can't see it kind of thing at all. Well, I have to give the floor a little bit of credit because I guess they had a, you know, like a open floor meeting on Monday where it allowed the players to air their grievances to the coaches and
00:42:00
Speaker
you know, talk things through. That's great, but obviously it didn't work too well with Joe Berry because we're still talking about how he called a shit ass game. But yeah. I mean, we'll get into most likely in the off season, we'll get into replacements. And like I said, I got an article coming out here pretty soon that talks, you know, the five guys that I could see being replacements for Joe Berry.
00:42:26
Speaker
But I know we didn't want to talk about this today, but that's just. It's it's the big it's it's honestly the big overarching thing from this game, because I mean, you know, like I said, you could talk about so many things. The love playing another good game, the Packers making good on, you know, this is a very similar situation to how week two played out where they go up double digit points, you know, they go up two scores to open the fourth quarter.
00:42:54
Speaker
and then they give it away you know the offense goes cold the defense gets stuck on the field for too long your young offense goes cold whether it's being over conservative or missing you know opportunities because you've you know you've been off the field for 20 plus minutes of real time at a you know it for as long as the panthers are on the field but you know this time the packers were able to bounce back and win the game but unfortunately that is all getting overshadowed
00:43:20
Speaker
Um, because we are again, stuck on the Joe Barry of it all, but you know, we won't, you know, the, the, and people are saying like, how much of it is on the players? I don't know. That's the thing is. And, but the, the problem there is I don't think all these guys are duds walking around on that field. Well, and that's, that's the thing today. They had two starters missing from ours, our defense Devondre and Darnell Savage.
00:43:51
Speaker
Otherwise, Jair was playing, Savage was playing. Well, I guess three starters, cause you're missing Resul too, but you know, that's the done thing. There's no thing there, but you know, you had Jair playing, you had, you had Stokes playing, Kway was playing, Kenny, Devontae, Carl Brooks, Rashawn, Gary, you had all those guys playing
Potential Defensive Changes and Improvements
00:44:15
Speaker
and they still gave up 30 points to a two and 12 team.
00:44:25
Speaker
Yeah. And the, the way I look at it is you see guys on this defense who either have and still are really good players in Kenny, like Kenny, I do think jaw is still one of those when he is healthy and is used in a way that maximizes the kind of player he is. I think Rashawn is that guy when, you know, he's, you know, end up the gate play around him is better. And I think they have good core guys in like Preston, TJ Slayton has taken a step forward this season.
00:44:47
Speaker
So you can't blame it all on players.
00:44:55
Speaker
I think Quay is getting there. You know, he's had an up and down season, but a lot of that I think is attributed to the injuries with. We almost had last year, Quay happened today. I read about that, but I reserved judgment until I saw it. He hit a guy, I mean, it was splitting hairs. They could have called it. They could have not called it. They obviously didn't call it, but I mean, it was close.
00:45:22
Speaker
And, but I have to give them credit. They, you know, the players have fight. I laughed my ass off because I saw, uh, when they had that fight towards the end of the game, even Anthony Johnson Jr. was like, he, he looked over, I can't remember who it was. Uh, but he looked at him and called him bitch like three different times. And you could read his lips saying bitch.
00:45:47
Speaker
And, uh, so, and he looked good today for the most part. I mean, yeah, he was out of, out of it for a little bit, but again, that I got to put that on play call more than anything. Um, another thing I want to touch on, and then we got to end this because I just, I can't continue to sit here and talk about Joe Berry's shit ass defense. Um,
00:46:12
Speaker
I saw some, and I stayed off Twitter for the most part when the game was going on because I just knew what kind of mess it was gonna be. But I kept seeing people talk about how Jair was getting burnt. Jair was getting burnt. Jair really wasn't getting burnt. He was playing zone and he let his guy go because that's the zone defense. Yeah, we'll do some like,
00:46:39
Speaker
we'll try to do some video breakdowns in the offseason and especially depending on who becomes the new defensive coordinator because like you said there's and you know it because you your college team is one of the best cover two teams across all levels of football so you understand what you're looking at when it's time to hand off a route and stuff and
00:47:04
Speaker
I know that's the joke with the Packers is that's the hallmark Packers secondary of the silhouette of a Packers secondary player is they're running with their hands up like that going what are you doing but
00:47:19
Speaker
There's a lot of disconnect between where the corners and the safeties are supposed to hand off routes and you see it all the time. And it'd be one thing if it was one guy doing it every every time if it was one, but we went from Jerry Gray to Greg Williams, we've shuffled through so many corners and safeties in the secondary this season.
00:47:41
Speaker
There's one constant and his initials are JB. And like you said, we're going to put a pin in it because we'll dance on these ashes at some point. But the literal only thing I want to see accomplished by this defense in the next two games is I want Roshan to get one more sack so he can get the stupid double digit set monkey off his back. So that's literally the only thing I care about on defense the rest of this season.
00:48:06
Speaker
Well, you know, Preston look good day. I have to, even though the stats won't reflect it, Van Ness look good today, getting pressure and playing the run. That really nice play on fourth down. And I thought he had other good plays. So that's the, that's the only casual like casualty I can see of this defensive staff is
00:48:27
Speaker
And that's why if they do move on from Barry, I would let Rebovich call the defense because I would just say, Rebovich, you can do whatever the fuck you want with your outside linebackers. Let's see what you can cook up because his position group is the group that I think has over the last couple of seasons seen the best improvement on a game-to-game basis.
00:48:53
Speaker
Well, and you know what the sad thing is, as much as it seems like they're not, the secondary has been one of the best groups of this defense for this season. You're right. And I do think Williams's influence has made a big difference. You look what he's playing with. He's playing with spam this season.
Special Teams Performance
00:49:10
Speaker
He's playing with a lot of spare parts of what- And he's made them look good. Yeah. And not just
00:49:18
Speaker
But within Barry's stupid ass schemes. So between the two of them, like I said, I wouldn't care. People are like, who do you give it to? I don't care. It's the same thing as the like, you can't move on from Mike McCarthy because who are you going to get? That's better. You can't be afraid of that at this point and stuff like this. And like I said,
00:49:40
Speaker
you just gotta move on because all you're doing is creating bad blood in that locker room at this point. But from the part of this roster that made this game way dumber than it needed to be, back to a bright spot, the special teams. And I thought the special teams had a solid day. Yes, I know they had some penalties, but like we said, the roughing, the kicker, it probably was more at most running into the kicker, but
00:50:07
Speaker
I kind of saw some clips on it while you were going on your rant about Barry. It looked like a soccer-ole kind of thing more than anything else. That's what I mean. It looked like Lucas was just trying to shine his shoes more than it was anything else.
00:50:23
Speaker
So, I, yeah, I don't have a, you know, that's not one of those like, Oh my God, what a stupid penalty kind of thing like not like Mike stripes a few years back that almost got killed on a hit and didn't get the call. Yeah. No, nothing close to that. So, um,
00:50:41
Speaker
I thought it was a good day overall from the special teams. You know, Kishan had that one really good return and probably had another one set up, but the turf monster got him in the first half and then he had the big return. I think it was on the drive where they got to the their last touchdown. That was a big play to get the big return after. Yeah, he really looked like he could have broke one today, you know, whether he was missing lanes or some blocking didn't happen. Like you said, he got tripped up on the turf.
00:51:10
Speaker
He looked like he could have gone at any moment. Yeah. And then the other side of it is, so Anders, yeah, he missed an extra point. I haven't had a chance to review it yet, but. It was a high snap. Oh, OK. The snap was like clear up here. Oh, OK. And Miele had to get it down to. And let's give it to Miele, because Miele, like, and we've talked about it, Orzak is supposed to be this, like,
00:51:37
Speaker
veteran reliable long snapper and he's put wheeling through the works and wheeling has done his damnedest to make everything happen this season he got the he got the hold down pretty good i just like anybody else who has common sense knows once you mess up one part of the yeah the
00:51:57
Speaker
The real operation. Yeah. Yeah, it throws everything off Because yeah there for those of you that don't know, you know, everything is supposed to work It's in in harmony there as the snap is coming back The kicker is starting to make his approach to the ball even though it's not there yet and stuff So once you see that's like as the kicker you're looking at it and
00:52:19
Speaker
And you're seeing your holder have to reach behind his head or something. And you're like, do I slow down? Do I keep going? Because you can't get there too early and the ball ain't ready for you kind of thing. So you've seen some. I think Crosby had one one time where he literally stopped and then ran through and kicked the ball. And luckily, it wasn't a long field goal or anything. So Anders missed the PAT. OK.
00:52:44
Speaker
he then goes on to make what is it i think that was after they went up that was to go up what should have been 14 to three so he still had two more touchdowns and the game winning field two field goals so he hit the long field goal at the end of the first half and then um had two more pats to kick and then the game winner yeah and those are the kicks that matter yes i know that the p the pat on the second touchdown matters but
00:53:14
Speaker
for all the things that all Packers fans were worried about for Anders going into this season, him bouncing back, you know, and I know it helps that it quote unquote wasn't his mistake that led to the Miss P18 necessarily, but, you know,
00:53:30
Speaker
People are going to be on him because he's the one that missed it. They don't pay attention to the rest of it. And I'm not calling people stupid or anything, but a lot of people don't understand what you were just explaining. There's a whole mechanism there that has to go through for it to be successful. It's not like you can just go out there
00:53:50
Speaker
and kick the ball. Right. You've got to have a perfect snap. You have to have a perfect snap, perfect hold, perfect kick. Yeah. As much as everyone does, you know, even Wes and Matt Snideman did it for, you know, for jokes, for shits and giggles, they did the like Snideman kick a 38 yard field goal kind of thing. It's like,
00:54:10
Speaker
okay but and all the people that are like on youtube like look at sign me up nfl and stuff it's like there's no rush you're taking 42 steps to get to the ball and you know the ball is there for it's on a tee kind of thing it's it's not there's no weather to contend with there's no noise but getting back to honors
00:54:32
Speaker
You know, those misses that happen within a game, those are the things we were worried about where is he going to over, you know, is he going to get a paralysis by analysis? Is he going to over sweat the next one? Nope. He goes out and he makes the next four kicks that his team Nixon needs him to make on the day or sorry. Yeah. One, two, two touchdowns. And yeah, four kicks. So yeah, I mean, great game from him today. And like we, you and I were kind of talking to, uh, talking about when we had Robin on last Sunday.
00:55:03
Speaker
I'm really happy with what we've seen from Anders. I think it's worked out way better than any one of us could have hoped for, given the scouting profile he had coming into the season, out of the draft and into the preseason.
00:55:19
Speaker
all of the negative stuff we heard during the preseason. I think, um, Bisaccia has done Yeoman's work to get him to be a, you know, above average to solid NFL kicker as a rookie. And what you'd like to just see moving forward is Anders be able to kind of do his own stuff on his own so that Bisaccia can get back to working on the rest of his special teams unit. But overall,
00:55:43
Speaker
those are the points that won you the game. Yes, I know the offense had to drive you down the field, but, um, at the end of the day, it's Anders alone by himself who's out there and got to put that thing through the upright. And he did. So, um, another good day from one time and I'm trying to get it back up before we end, but just to compare.
00:56:03
Speaker
what the seasons were between Mason's rookie season and Anders and right now Anders is way above what Mason was at the same I want to say Mason ended up at like 78 or something percent as a rookie And you know, that's the thing is like Everyone looks at Mason's career with the the full hindsight 2020 of his like whole Packer career but
00:56:32
Speaker
within his rookie season, you had the game against Washington where it was that like, it was in the like, it was monsoon raining at Lambeau. Favre couldn't like, he kept trying to throw deep balls and he kept getting intercepted. I think Mason missed like two or three field goals that day and stuff. And you haven't had that kind of game from on as, as bad of like, like I said, as bad of a reputation as Anders had coming into as a draft pick and coming into the season after, you know, the training camp that he had.
00:57:02
Speaker
He's been pretty reliable for a rookie kicker, so... Okay, so here's what we got. So far, obviously, you know, there's two games left in the season, so it's kind of skewed that a little bit that way, but... Field goals made, Anders is at 22, Mason was at 31. Attempted, Anders is at 27, Mason was at 39. Percentage, Anders is at 81.5, Mason was at 79.5.
00:57:31
Speaker
Anders has a 52 yarder for a long Mason had a 53 extra points. Anders is at 26. Mason's is at 48 and Mason was at a 100%. Whereas Anders is at an 89%. But if I remember right, 2007 was before they moved the extra point back.
00:57:53
Speaker
So yeah, you just got to throw out the PAT stuff at that point, because forget apples and oranges, it's apples and lettuce. They're not even the same thing, anywhere close to the same thing. So yeah, just looking at the pure field goal kicking, Anders has been good. It's been a good season.
00:58:15
Speaker
You just hope to see, you know, just like not much different from Jordan. You just hope to see him trend upward in the, you know, as the, as the next season comes along, but I've got, I hate sounding like a broken record, but at least he's not making continuous mistakes. Yeah. You know, he's not letting that one miss get in his head and then he goes on and miss another three or four. Yeah.
00:58:44
Speaker
And to go back to it, the Carolina's kicker missed two extra points. And Pinheiro's been around the block a few times, so yeah.
00:58:56
Speaker
It's one of those that people are going to belly ache over it for the sake of doing it because they need to be right about their preconceived notions about who Anders is and stuff. I don't mind it. It's whatever. I just care that he's doing his thing and kicking well for the Packers overall.
Game MVPs and Final Thoughts
00:59:18
Speaker
Love to see what he's done. But like I said We don't need to beat the dead horse anymore on the defense It was just good that the Packers were rewarded with a win where two-thirds of you know Two of the three phases of the game played well today. So that's what you kind of hope for you know as a team you hope for and honestly
00:59:41
Speaker
I, like we said, we're going to just kind of be saying the same thing. It's just, what are they going to say in the post game? That's the only difference in terms of what the defense did on a given day or, or did they have stupid tone over luck to paper mache over the holes that they have, uh, within their scheme and stuff like that. But Joe, who's your MVP for today?
01:00:05
Speaker
That was kind of hard because there's not really a, I would have to go maybe Aaron Jones, just go stat wise and how he was looking pretty good because overall it wasn't like a great game by the offense, but it was a steady, nice game from the offense.
01:00:25
Speaker
And of course, there's not really going to be on the defense that I can give MVP to maybe Preston because he did come up with one and a half sacks. But that's about it. But I'll have to go with Aaron Jones. And in that case, I will go with Jordan. Like you said, it's a little tough because it's not the greatest game.
01:00:51
Speaker
put together solid overall day, clean football game, no turnovers, and throw his team down for what ended up being a game-winning drive. So you can't ask for much more than that. And like I said, Jordan got to make up for not being able to answer the bell in the week two game. He had a couple
01:01:12
Speaker
bites at the apple and that one and wasn't able to get it done there. So in a similar, relatively similar situation, you know, a road game against a bad team, he was able to answer the bell this time around. So, you know, it's good growth for this team, this offensive unit to see. So I'm not even going to ask who your LVP is. I think we're both going to have the same one. And we talked for a half hour on
Podcast Wrap-up and Holiday Wishes
01:01:37
Speaker
that. His initials are JB and we are going to leave it at that. But Joe,
01:01:43
Speaker
Um, forget the usual outro. I just want to, I wish you were feeling better and that you were fully healthy, but just want to wish you a Merry Christmas, buddy. Um, had a lot of fun this season with you so far. I know we have two more weeks to go, but just got to reach out and say Merry Christmas to my co-host Joe. Hope that the weather in Iowa is good, not too wild this week, but just want to say Merry Christmas, buddy.
01:02:08
Speaker
Yeah. And I hope you guys have a happy Christmas over there. I know you're rushing around because of your, what you've been calling your shotgun baptism of your daughter and all that, but you know, hopefully you guys will be able to calm down and have a good day tomorrow. And, you know, we kind of want to have, have a happy Christmas forever or wish a happy Christmas for everybody out there and a happy Hanukkah and, and all that fun stuff out there for the people's, uh, you know, all two or three of your, however many is out there or whatever.
01:02:39
Speaker
You know, it is what it is. Yep. So like Joe said, we wish you all a Merry Christmas and a safe and happy holidays. We thank you for tuning into this episode of the Ohana Packers edition podcast. Please give us a follow on Twitter. I'm at Koana Mike. Joe is at Iowa underscore Joe 86. The podcast is at Ohana underscore Packers. Please visit our website. Ohana Packers dot org. We have blog post. Joy Van Zumran has started to write for us again.
01:03:08
Speaker
Joe is posting. If it hasn't gone up by the time this pod is out, it will be coming out this week. I will finally have time again to write for the site. So I will have a couple articles hopefully coming out this week. So please follow our blog posts there. You can find streams of every podcast episode on the website. Please follow the podcast on your favorite podcasting apps.
01:03:33
Speaker
Subscribe and like if you're enjoying what you're hearing. Please give positive feedback or negative feedback in the comments. We appreciate either one of those packers. They are still alive in the playoff hunt. We are still seeing improved growth from the offense and Anders Karlsson. We wish them all a Merry Christmas. Certain parts of the team need some coal in their stockings, but
01:03:57
Speaker
We hope that the Packers have brought you joy this 2023 holiday season. We wish you or we like to say a hearty go pack go and aloha to all of you.