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#208 - Silvia Saunders
331 Plays25 days ago
Contemporary fiction author and winner of the Comedy Women in Print Prize 2023, Silvia Saunders is here chatting about her journey to publication, her debut novel 'Homesick' and more writing adventures.
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Transcript
Introduction & Guest Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
Ooh, a spicy question. I love it. Because the writing is sort of everything. You can fix plot holes. So some readers love that, and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this. So it's kind of a gamble.
Meet Mara: Protagonist of 'Homesick'
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello, and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast. With me today is the winner of the Comedy Women in Print Prize 2023, Sylvia Saunders. Hello. Hi, Jamie. It's always nice to be introduced as a winner of something.
00:00:30
Speaker
um Well, what's even more impressive about that is you're a winner before you've even been published. um So I think the best place to start off is the novel, which is not out as of recording this. Your debut is coming up very, very soon. Homesick. Tell us a little bit about it.
Exploring Challenges & Inheritance
00:00:50
Speaker
So, Homesick is the story of Mara. She's a woman in her mid-20s from a small town. She's living in London. She loves living in London. and She has a long-term partner who she's very happy with. She has a job that she enjoys, um but she's living in a house share which is making her quite miserable.
00:01:09
Speaker
And then lo and behold she unexpectedly inherits enough cash to um get her on the property ladder which she was never expecting um and she assumes that all of her problems will be solved.
00:01:22
Speaker
um but they are not. um Her long term boyfriend has no interest in moving into the house with her. um Her best friend is born and raised in London and is finding it's sort of hard to swallow that Mara is now in this position that she herself might not ever be in. um And then once Mara moves into her new flat, she becomes very fixated with both sets of her neighbors and starts comparing her life with theirs.
00:01:51
Speaker
which causes other problems.
Influences and Urban Reflections
00:01:54
Speaker
Yeah, so that's the gist of it. It's so relatable. I'm just thinking of the neighbours thing. As soon as you move somewhere and you're suddenly like, let's see where my neighbours are at. Let's see what they're doing. It's a great pitch. I always have to ask when people always say with a debut novel, it's often the sort of closest to the author in terms of their own experience. And obviously you live in London. The atmosphere is going to be drawn from your own experience here, but
00:02:26
Speaker
how much of the actual story is like from things that you've lived through? I think I took a lot of inspiration from things that I have experienced for sure, but also just lots of my friends who live in cities um have been in these kind of situations um and I am from a small town in Midlands, it's not that small, I'm from a town in Midlands, and where a lot of my school friends were able to put deposits its down on houses and things with stairs and gardens and things that we can only dream of. um And of course, our parents have just been in completely different situations when they were our age. And I've just always found that an interesting
Writing 'Homesick' During the Pandemic
00:03:14
Speaker
topic. um Me and my friends talk about that a lot. And um yeah, there's a lot of anecdotes that you can use, especially about neighbors, as you said. So yeah. Okay, so was this story sort of born more out of that kind of the intrigue of like, everyone's worried about where they're at in life and wi and that's kind of, especially in UK culture, that's kind of intrinsically tied to where you are in terms of living space and property?
00:03:42
Speaker
Yes. I mean, it's also not a coincidence that I started writing this story in, I think, the first paragraph I wrote in January 2021. So it was very COVID-y. And we were all in our homes a lot. And it Yeah, our living arrangements could quite easily take over our lives at that period of time. A lot of us weren't going into offices. So yeah, I just I feel it was something that was playing heavily on my mind and on the minds of lots of my peers as well.
00:04:24
Speaker
Yeah, no, absolutely. We're all feeling a bit trapped at that point. So I can see i can see the direct correlation between the set up here and that. And like I said, this is this is the novel with which you won the comedy women in print prize. Yes. um
Comedy or Drama? Genre Reflections
00:04:44
Speaker
Congratulations. Awesome achievement. ah When you were writing this, were you thinking that you were writing a comedy?
00:04:50
Speaker
No, not at all. ah Really not at all. ands In theory, it's there's it's quite dark. There's a lot of dark topics in the book. and A big theme is male mental health. Her partner is struggling quite badly with depression. and She is grieving. There's lots of things that aren't really very funny. and So it was a friend who sent me the link to enter um and initially I thought it might not be appropriate to enter this book but um then I just thought well my friend obviously thinks it's funny and surely it should just be down to the judges to decide if it's not funny it won't do well. m So I gave it a go and also it was free to enter which is increasingly rare for literary three competitions so I genuinely thought well I've got nothing to lose I might as well. It's so interesting how often
00:05:47
Speaker
I think authors get this a lot where they're they're just writing a story and then ah different various different stages on their kind of journey, they're told that, okay, yeah, well, we're going to pack it to this and market this as this genre. yeah And they sort of say, oh, I didn't realise it was that genre. That's fine though. Yes, that happens a lot. That really does happen a lot.
00:06:07
Speaker
and this Yeah, the genre thing is interesting, isn't it? um I think in theory mine falls into the umbrella of women's fiction, women's contemporary fiction. But what does that really yeah mean? Like boys are allowed to read it, they might even enjoy it. Yeah, I tried to not i try to not use the description of women's fiction because i it does feel outdated to me.
00:06:33
Speaker
I think so, but it is still bandied about. You would be surprised. Yeah. Because I mean, from a marketing perspective, it still means something. But I just think there are better ways of describing stories other than they have a female protagonist and is written by a woman. 100%. Completely agree.
Early Writing Journey
00:06:53
Speaker
um Let's get back onto you. I'd love to rewind a bit, dial it back, um and hear about how your kind of writing adventures started and the steps that you kind of went along the way to get you here where you are now, kind of and though just about to publish your first novel. so Do you remember when you first decided that writing a novel, publishing a book, that was something that you wanted to do?
00:07:20
Speaker
Yes, I was um living in Paris. i i did um After my undergrad um to degree, I went and lived in Paris for a year as an au pair. So I wrote a very thinly disguised um account of an au pair living in Paris, which um ended up being about 100,000 words.
00:07:47
Speaker
long but essentially it was a it was a blog i just gave the main character a different name but it was me um and actually i worked on that for a really long time so i think that was in 2004 14 or 2013 um and i worked on that for quite a few years and it it ended up being a lot shorter than 100 000 words thankfully um and i bought a writers and artists yearbook and I went through with the highlighter and I was super trigger happy and sent it to quite a lot of agents.
00:08:24
Speaker
um And actually, I got loads of really nice replies, which I think gave me a false sense of what it's actually like to submit a manuscript. yeah um They were all obviously rejections, but some were really kind rejections. um And i before um recording this, I just checked my inbox so I could be factually correct. My very first rejection was in January 2016. And it was actually a handwritten power, like it was feedback about the, the novel. So it, yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So I've been submitting for a long time. It's taken me quite a long time.
Facing Rejections & Learning
00:09:03
Speaker
um And a then I eventually realized that that book wasn't going to get anywhere.
00:09:11
Speaker
um And then I wrote book two, which I really believed in again. um I'm always so hopeful. um And I got a lot less interest for that one. And then I thought maybe I should take this a bit more seriously. So I went part time at work.
00:09:33
Speaker
And I did ah Masters at Goldsmiths in creative writing, which I really, really enjoyed. um And I met lots of um people who are still my friends now, and I wrote book three. And I really thought that was going to be the one that and broke through.
00:09:52
Speaker
And actually, I was in touch with an agent the whole way through the course. So about 18 months, um she'd spotted an extract that I had written and got in touch with me, which I don't think happens very often.
Commitment to Writing Craft
00:10:06
Speaker
So I sort of thought, that's it, we're in. And she saw lots of different versions of that novel.
00:10:12
Speaker
And when I sent her the final section, she said, you know what, I don't think I'm going to be able to go ahead with this. So that was really, really hot. That was really, really hot. That must be crushing.
00:10:24
Speaker
so crushing because I really had put all of my hopes into that. And she was, we got on really well. She was a really nice person. um what Which book am I up to? That's book three. That was book three, yeah. what Was that while you were doing the MA at Goldsmith? So i submitted I submitted a section of that as my final piece. um And I think it The course did teach me a lot, but I don't actually know if I would recommend doing a course a formal course like that. um First of all, because they are really expensive. And second of all, because I sort of think you can do that same sort of work just by being in a writing group and having trusted readers. um It depends if you can find that organically or not.
00:11:09
Speaker
So yeah, I think I, I mean, realistically, I think I had a bit of a break after that because I did lose confidence.
Genuine Storytelling Success
00:11:16
Speaker
And then I started writing homesick, which wasn't called homesick at the time. Okay. and But I just, I took all of the stress away from it and just, I just wrote something that I was always looking forward to getting back to. um It felt like I was writing something relevant and true to me, and I think that was maybe what the difference was, or maybe you just it was the practice from all the other books, I'm not sure. um Did you not get that feeling with the previous like two novels? No, I did. I always get that feeling. But I got that feeling again, let's say. Okay, good.
00:11:59
Speaker
Yes. And then I did actually do another course. um I did the Curtis Brown creative course, which did get me out of the slump that I was in for sure.
00:12:13
Speaker
and It was just overwhelmingly positive. um Everybody wanted to help each other. We were actual friends, we were spending time together in the pub after the force, we stayed in touch afterwards. um And then with a few of the people from the course. I think there were five of us, including me, that had finished manuscripts and wanted feedback on those. And I had never shared a full novel with anyone apart from hundreds of agents when I was submitting. yeah So we sort of um treated it like a reading group. So I think we did it once a month and we would share our whole book.
00:13:05
Speaker
um And then we would do a Zoom and give feedback on each other's novels. And so that was so, so, so helpful.
00:13:18
Speaker
um
00:13:21
Speaker
yeah I'm i'm and a quick writer and a very slow editor. And I don't think I'm very good at editing. So that that helped me be a lot more focused with what the story actually needed. And I think that was maybe the first time I did real proper edits.
Curtis Brown Creative Course Impact
00:13:42
Speaker
So structural edits and sort of rethinking endings. And it made the book immeasurably better.
00:13:51
Speaker
Okay, that's a lot of ah editing to do from feedback from like a just a ah reading group, not like a editor to publisher or an agent. Yeah. And I think it was helpful to me because I genuinely trusted the people in in the group. They were my friends, but they were quite new friends, which I think was helpful um because they weren't just going to pat me on the head and say, well, Daniel, very clever. um They actually wanted to help me make the book better. So I think that was what I needed at the moment. Okay. So the yeah having just said that you probably wouldn't recommend doing the MA,
00:14:29
Speaker
Yes. And then you did the Curtis Brown course. Would you recommend the Curtis Brown course? Yes, because it was a lot more practical advice. okay um they It was more focused on, do you want to make writing a career? um Which sounds maybe a bit cold, but it wasn't. It's it's not its it's also very creative, um but they bring agents in. You get to talk to them. It's sort of brings away this like veil of like they're so untouchable and I'd be so privileged to even be in a room with one it's just normal very normal people who are also happy to speak to you um and they taught things like um how to write a cover letter um just things like you don't need to um throat clear when you're submitting something you don't have to say oh thank you so much for taking the time and
00:15:22
Speaker
things like that, you you can just pitch. Like you're allowed to just pitch your book and be proud of it. So yes, I would recommend something like that if that's in somebody's reach. Obviously that's another cost. So it depends if someone is able to do that or not, but I was fortunate in that I could do that at that time and I suppose it it yeah paid off for me in the end.
00:15:51
Speaker
Yeah, I've had a few people on who have done that course and and people do speak very highly specifically of the the Curtis Brown um course. did you Do they do a thing at the end of that where you do meet a group of agents or your is it your manuscripts get published in in like a document which goes out to agents?
00:16:11
Speaker
Well, this was a point of contention because when I did the course, it was still a bit COVID-y. So they didn't do the um cocktail party thing that they usually do. So we were all devastated about that. But yes, they do send out a sort of compilation of people's extracts to various agents within um C and&W and Curtis Brown.
Agent Offers & Prize Win
00:16:40
Speaker
Oh, I see. and But you're not with an agent from either of those. You're with Rachel. So at what point did Rachel come on the scene? Well, so after doing the course, I worked on the edits for Homesick for quite a long time. And then I did a much more focused submission to just a handful of agents. Okay. And It was, I guess simultaneously I also entered the comedy women in print prize. Yes. Is that the right one? Yes. And so I was lucky in that.
00:17:24
Speaker
I can't remember the exact dates now, but for example, say I started submitting to agents in October, the the prize had started in November and then I found out quite quickly that had been longlisted. So I was able to get back in touch with the agents who were talking to me and to tell them that, which I think helps them prioritize which ones they're going to read. yeah um And then when I shortlisted, I was able to nudge again. um And then I found myself in the position where I had a few agent offers and I had this very exciting week where I was meeting up with agents and they were talking about my book and the plans of the book. And yeah, I was able to choose, which I'd never thought would be available to
Choosing the Right Agent
00:18:12
Speaker
me. um And Rachel was a very clear yes from the start. As soon as I met her, I thought, yes, I can work with you. And I would be very glad to. yeah
00:18:21
Speaker
What was the, because I've asked agents this, and so I've got it from an agent's point of view. What was it like for you, and without naming any names other than Rachel, ah what was it like for you being sort of having a number of agents approach you and say, I would love to represent you? what How did you kind of divvy that up? Did you like and arrange to meet with all of them or what what happened?
00:18:47
Speaker
it was so It was surreal. um i Yes, I'm London-based, so I was able to actually go into the offices and meet. Oh, amazing. Yeah. I thought it would be important for it to feel organic and and for me to feel I could um regularly speak to the person at length about um writing. So that was my main the main thing I was looking for, I think. It's weird. It's also like a speed dating situation, but for your career. and yeah Yeah, but it was not a hard decision to make. um ah It just felt like the right call. Did they all sort of pitch different directions they thought the book might go in the same way that editors do when they're in an auction?
00:19:42
Speaker
a little bit, but by the time I had signed with Rachel, we were a couple of days away from the quip results, which were done in person. So I'd already done well and in the competition. I was shortlisted at the stage that I signed with Rachel. So it wasn't quite as straightforward as that, because there was always this thing of, if you do win, the publishing deal is already happening. So Yeah, I didn't quite have that. I've spoken to other debuts who did have that experience, but it wasn't quite like that for me, because there was a speculative sort of question mark over, okay, you might be publishing with HarperCollins anyway. Right, because of the prize. Yeah, the prize was the publishing deal. So that if I were to win, that wouldn't have been
00:20:32
Speaker
a negotiable... ri I mean, I didn't have to take it, but I don't know why I wouldn't have. That would be... Nah, I don't want you publishing deals. Yeah, thanks. Thanks. Yes. Okay. That's interesting as well from an agent's perspective because it's like... you You signed before you won though, right? Three days before, two or three days before. Okay, okay. In some ways, it's better that that happened because you might have been like questioning things if you'd already won and then you signed.
00:21:00
Speaker
Well, yes. And it's nice because I have, I have submitted for so many years and to so many different people, it was like, okay, Rachel actually really, really wants to work with me. And it's not just because of the prize and she sees what I'm trying to do.
Anticipation of Book Release
00:21:13
Speaker
So, I mean, even if someone had wanted to sign me just because of the prize, obviously I would have done that, but yeah. Yeah. No, I just understand. I mean, the prize is a one book deal, I presume. Yes.
00:21:28
Speaker
Okay, so you you and Rachel ah will be going on submission or are on submission without something new? Yes. Not yet. We're not quite at that stage yet, but I have written the next book. Okay. um So I'm currently um editing.
00:21:45
Speaker
Okay, very cool. I'd love to talk about that and maybe a little bit more in a bit. But before we go to the desert island, I just wanted to ask, so the book's not out yet. This has obviously been a dream of yours for many, many years. Yes. Does it feel real yet?
00:22:05
Speaker
I have a stack of of the books in the flat now with me, so I sort of have to accept that it's happening and it's it's a real thing. um But i I sort of feel I won't truly believe it until I know someone has paid for a copy, if that makes sense. Like someone who doesn't know me. so yeah and Friends and family are very kindly pre-ordered.
00:22:29
Speaker
and Well, they've told me they have, I think they have. and Yeah, so I think if I ever happen to see one in the wild, that will be a real moment of, oh, okay, somebody actually just saw it and fancied it and paid for it.
00:22:44
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, and also just ah seeing it in the in a shop, I guess, if you walk into your bookshop and you see it on a shelf and you'll think, wow, it's right there. That's me. That's my name. That will be
Desert Island Book & Closing
00:22:56
Speaker
wild. I cannot wait. um Amazing. So the desert island. Yes. If I were to maroon you on a desert island with a single book, ah which book do you hope that it would be?
00:23:12
Speaker
So I have actually mulled this over for about six months or since we decided we were going to do this conversation. So I've gone through all the different options and I'm going to be a little bit cheeky and ask if I could maybe have the whole of the Elena Ferrante brilliant friend quartets sort of bound together as one.
00:23:32
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, if if you can't buy it bound together as one, I'm sure you could figure out how to glue it together. and see Yeah. You wouldn't be the first person to have done something like that. Okay. Yeah. I feel that's what I would do, please. and I feel that there is all of life in there and that would also be long enough to keep me going for a little while, a few days.
00:23:57
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Very cool. A great choice. Also sticking four books together, smart choice in terms of length. Love that. It's the only way. Exactly. um Next up, we are going to chat a bit about Sylvia's writing process, um whether it's evolved as a result of finishing and publishing a first novel. and That will all be in the extended episode available on Patreon.
00:24:24
Speaker
maybe should listen to this podcast she be like wait I need this book about the au pair.
00:24:33
Speaker
Amazing. ah It's about time we wrap up this interview, but it's been so fun chatting with you, Sylvia. ah It's been so interesting hearing about your kind of experiences and and how you've kind of made it through publishing. ah Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. I'm a genuine fan of the podcast, so this was very exciting.
00:24:49
Speaker
Awesome. I'm so glad to hear that. um For everyone listening, Homesick is out on the 30th of January. So, depending on when you're listening to this, you can pre-order it or order it. ah If you want to keep up with what Sylvia is doing, you can follow her on Instagram, at silvsaunders. To support the podcast, like, follow, and subscribe. Join the Patreon for ad-free extended episodes and check out my other podcasts, The Chosen Ones and other tropes. Thanks again, Sylvia, and thanks to everyone listening. We will catch you on the next episode.