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Training for Trail Running: Race Strategies and Preparation
10k Plays1 year ago
In the final episode of our Training for Trail Running Series, Alyssa and return guest, coach Will Weidman, address race strategies and preparation for trail running success. The two discuss common mistakes in racing, developing a realistic time goal and race strategy, and how to focus on process vs outcome. They further break down organizing gear in drop bags and for your crew as well as setting time goals and expectations for your crew when coming in to aid stations. Will and Alyssa offer their advice on handling race day nerves and remembering that consistent training and hard work will lead to positive outcomes.
Write to us at [email protected] or visit uphillathlete.com to find out more about our coaching services, training programs and much more!
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Transcript
Introduction and Purpose of Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Uphill Athlete Podcast. Our mission is to elevate and inspire all mountain athletes through education and celebration. Today we will be concluding our trail running educational series with a discussion on race strategies and race preparation. I'm Alyssa Clark and I will be your host today.
Guest Introduction: Will Weedman
00:00:26
Speaker
We have fan favorite, Will Weedman, onto the podcast. Will has years of experience with race strategy and how to put your best foot forward on race day. So thanks for being on the podcast, Will. Hey, hey, Alyssa. It was good to hang out with you. Yeah. Well, I can say you kind of gave a smirk when I said fan favorite, but the muscular endurance
00:00:48
Speaker
That was definitely a big fan favorite for everyone. And I think really just people like hearing us talk about Tour de Jean. That's what I've truly come to the conclusion about. That's gotta be it. I mean, I assume that's the next podcast series, right? It's just an entire series about Tour de Jean after a trail running? Oh, I'm quite sure we might lose a few people, but you know, I don't rule it out. I think the two of our obsessions of the race could certainly
00:01:16
Speaker
keep that going for a while.
Will's Recent Experiences and Marathon Prep
00:01:20
Speaker
But you've been up to some interesting endeavors. Can you start us out with you just did UTMB and now you're a temporary roadrunner and then you're coming off a race director. So yeah, how have things been for you? What have you been up to?
00:01:40
Speaker
Yeah, so I ran UTMB. This was my fourth run there. And I was one of many people in the Chamonix Valley to unfortunately get COVID. Not ideal. I think I had the beginning of it during the race and then, you know, had to get home and quarantine and do all that. So less ideal, but you know, still a lot of positives from that and good experience from it. So recovered from that and then
Training Efforts: Road vs. Trail
00:02:05
Speaker
You know, I joke this is my two to four weeks a year where I become a roadrunner for a little while and change it up. So we have the Marine Corps marathon, which is local to me. It's a great race. Um, it's a big marathon, but they do a great job with it. So I do that every year and put in somewhere between no specific training and a little bit of specific training and see what happens. But I did a 10 mile road race last weekend and then Marine Corps. And then I will be excited at the end of October to go back to the trails and the mountains.
00:02:35
Speaker
Love it. Yeah. I think that those, uh, those road sections, I just ran quite a bit of road, uh, in the event that I just did. And the whole time I just went, Oh my gosh, there's so much running in my race. I don't run this much. I like to, I miss hiking.
Race Course Familiarity and Strategy
00:02:53
Speaker
So, well, you'll have hurt coming up. So you'll get plenty of hiking, uh, preparation in.
00:03:00
Speaker
100%. Yeah. So after Marine Corps, it'll be back to some technical steep stuff, training for her, but I think it is good. I think it's good to change it up throughout the year a little bit and getting that, you know, faster effort and cadence up, I think is, you know, you lose it if you don't do that. And it's, you know, maybe not as fun if you love being out in the mountains, but, um, yeah, it's good to change it up for a little while and get some different systems working. Absolutely.
00:03:26
Speaker
That tends to be kind of early spring season for me as a speed work. And then every year I think that running a fast 5K is a good idea. And then I always go, wow, this is so painful. It is funny, right? When you're like, oh, if only this was 10 hours longer, it would be way easier. But when you optimize your body for something, that's kind of how it works. Yeah. You're like, I only have one mile left. And you're like, but that's a third of the race. Shoot.
00:03:56
Speaker
So, well, let's get into it. So you're just coming off of also directing a sub ultra distance trail race. And what are some of the common mistakes that you see people make also just kind of in your coaching in general, when they are preparing for races? Well, I got reminded of one big one in this race, when you start coming out of a national forest campsite.
00:04:27
Speaker
You go on road for a little bit, and then you head up the trail into the mountain. And the race leader took the entire field off course, didn't make the turn onto the trail, which was very well marked, and they all went going down the road. And we got everybody back. We got them all on track. All was well, and everybody finished. But one takeaway of race planning and preparation is to study the course, to know the course, to have a map, bring a map, have a GPX on your watch.
00:04:57
Speaker
amazing that a lot of people, you know, put a lot of faith into the course markings, which, you know, from the race director perspective is you can mark as much as you possibly can and try to mark every term super well, but you know, things can happen and people still somehow miss it.
Aligning Training with Elevation Profiles
00:05:13
Speaker
So I really think if you're going to put a little bit of extra effort into something, that's a good place to put some effort. Um, and I found that, you know, just really helpful.
00:05:23
Speaker
for me as well, like I remembered was thinking after this incident with the race. I ran the Trail Verbier race a bunch of years ago. And you know, it's a tough course at 68 miles and 28,000 feet of climbing or something like that. And that was earlier on my uphill athlete journey, I would say, and I had a baby at home. So I was in pretty far over my head on that one. And when I looked at the course profile, it looked like
00:05:51
Speaker
you know, just the same throughout, right? Like big climb, big descent and repeat. But I went and actually mapped it out and said, okay, well, like how big is each climb in descent? And what's the percent grade? And like actually broke down each climb, the descent segment to try to get some idea of like what it was getting into. And when I did that, I found like, well, actually it looks the same, but the first 25 miles is really stacked to be much harder. And the bulk of the really steep stuff comes in that first 25 miles. And I, you know, those first,
00:06:21
Speaker
a couple of climbs in the sense, I got to the end and my quads were shaking and I was totally shot. And it was, can I finish this? Can I do 43 more miles and starting to think of maybe I need to drop. But I remembered studying the course and then I knew we had four or five more gradual uphill miles coming up where I could just get into a hiking groove, recover a bit, get some calories in, get to an aid station. And there was only a couple of miles that were going to be as hard as some of the stuff we'd done.
00:06:50
Speaker
I think if I hadn't done that kind of course prep, I don't know if I would have gotten to the finish and that really helped like contextualize like, okay, I feel pretty worked over now, but I think I can recover and get it done. So yeah, study the course, know what you're in for and prepare some navigation. Yeah. I mean, I think those are great tips. I truly, I don't think you can look at a course profile early enough because
00:07:19
Speaker
That's one of the first things that I say to my athletes. It's one of the first things that I do myself because you want to tailor your training to the course profile as much as possible because if you have a race that has a four or 5,000 foot climb, you don't want to be running on the flat. You want to try to get as close to that as possible. Or if you have Western states, for example, where you know, hey, actually, after you get through a certain section, it's really downhill and runnable.
00:07:49
Speaker
You have to know that in, um, in your, your strategy. And so that's one of the first things I say to athletes and do myself is just, Hey, let's pull up the cross course profile and like your long runs, your speed work, et cetera. Um, you know, if it's a flatter race, we're doing it on the flat. If it's a Hillier race or really madness race or climbing. And that's, I think one of the biggest advantages. It's also, I think one of the biggest mistakes.
00:08:16
Speaker
I see runners make is just not understanding what the course is going to ask of you.
Setting Realistic Race Goals
00:08:22
Speaker
So even if it's not ideal, you know, even if you don't have a 5,000 foot mountain in your backyard, you can figure out ways to make that work. Yeah. I think you're so right that a lot of times people will be tempted to pull that course up two days before the race, but yeah, the earlier you can do it. Um, yeah, exactly. Optimize and tailor everything to it. Yeah.
00:08:44
Speaker
So going off of that point, we say we're doing our job well, we have figured out our course, we've looked at the profile. How do you then come up with a realistic time goal for a race? And then how do you talk with your athletes about this? And I said this before, but it's something that
00:09:07
Speaker
At this point in my own racing, I almost feel intuitive in some ways about figuring out my time goals. And I was thinking back of like, Oh my gosh, how do we break that down? And I do with my runners, but you do just kind of get accustomed to it after a while. Um, but how do you, how do you do this? Yeah, I think it's different answer depending on the distance a little bit. So if you're talking about something up to a 50 K or a 50 mile.
00:09:36
Speaker
You can probably approximate some of those efforts in training pretty well to get a decent idea, right? So if you're doing a long run and you're putting in an hour or two hours of a harder effort in that long run, you can get a good proxy for, okay, I think this is my 50K, 50 mile. I think it gets really interesting when you get longer than that. Um, and there's just so many more variables and the error bars get pretty big on that. And when you think about say a hundred mile race, you might easily spend two hours in an eight station. Um,
00:10:04
Speaker
if you're working through some things and spending some time there, or you might slow down quite a lot towards the end. So there's a couple of ways I think about it. One tool, as you know, I tend to go on the data-driven side of things. So one data-driven approach I found that can be helpful is the ITRA site, the International Trail Running Association. Have you used that much before? I haven't used it. I've just used it to see kind of
00:10:33
Speaker
runners rankings, because that used to be how you could get into races. But I'm curious how you use it. Yeah. So I mean, I found the rankings are, are pretty good, right? Um, cause I'm like some other things that takes into account the course and says, okay, based on the technicality and the climb and descent and all that, like it gives you a score. But let's say you've run a 20 mile trail race, but you haven't run a hundred K you can go for your 20 mile trail race and see what your score was. And then.
00:11:02
Speaker
for the race that I'm doing or somebody I'm coaching is going to be doing, we'll say, well, let's actually go and find people who have run it in the past who have a similar score to you for ITRA. And it's a decent starting point of getting, okay, what kind of ballpark am I in? And then you can drill down from there and say, okay, maybe five or 10 people finished with a similar score in the last couple of years. If you can get any splits on that course, you can then look at like,
00:11:30
Speaker
who ran good splits or even or closer to negative splits versus somebody who might've slowed down more. So then you can start to back into like, okay, this is probably the range of what I can do and people who seem to paste it pretty well, like here's what that looked like. So that can be, take a bit of time, but kind of helps you learn the course a little bit too. And I found that can be helpful. And then beyond that, I would say,
00:11:56
Speaker
It's always good to hold the goal pretty loosely, especially if it's your first time at a distance. Really just focus on the primary goal is going to be to get to the finish. You'll hear a lot of people break things down, like an A goal, a B goal, a C goal. And I think the main thing is especially if you haven't run the distance before, really focus more on what is that C goal that you're going to want to take away at the end of the day.
00:12:23
Speaker
Uh, often just finishing, right? Finishing a big challenging thing that you haven't done before. And then you can have some B goals and A goals that can be informed by some of, you know, your training runs and, you know, talking with your coach and looking at things like those ITRA scores.
Flexibility in Race Goals and Crew Coordination
00:12:38
Speaker
Um, but there's a lot of variables. So I think it's always good to hold those a little bit more loosely. And a lot of times, you know, that mentality of focus more on the C goal can actually get you to a better performance. He hasn't sure you found before like.
00:12:52
Speaker
Uh, when I think about a couple of people I coached this year, where was their first hundred, um, you know, two of them, like one ran 21 hours at Western States and one ran 22 hours at Webville. But the goals we set were like very much well within their fitness, slower goals than that. And with the mentality, like let the race come to you, right? And then maybe you can exceed those goals, but especially with those unknowns at that new distance started from.
00:13:21
Speaker
let's actually plan on 24 or 26. And it's also just much more motivating if you're moving ahead of your goals and gaining time on it. Like that's never a bad place to be in versus can be a little tough. If you ran a section, you felt like it was good, but you're five minutes behind where you wanted to be. Um, so the mentality side, that's how I like to, especially for those newer, bigger challenges, think about those goals. Love it. I love that intro tip. I will definitely take a look at that. I had not,
00:13:48
Speaker
realize that that was something you could do. So that's, that's great. Um, yeah, you know, I think that it's, you can get a sense of a runner's longer runs. Um, and also if they have previous finishes in distances, you can, you can gauge that relatively well, but I totally agree, especially for new distances. I always try to set the expectations, not necessarily
00:14:18
Speaker
It's not low, it's more just that their chances of succeeding are a lot higher than them feeling like they're failing. And I just find, especially with that neurodistances, you just, it's truly hard to describe in your first 100 miler, what happens at mile 65. Cause something happens after 100 K that does not happen in other distances. And so I just think it gives you the room to explore that, um,
00:14:46
Speaker
that moment, that feeling, you know, those miles without feeling like you're failing. So that's definitely, I try to have the same mindset of being a lot more gentle in goal setting in your first time distance. And then, then you have a benchmark and you can kind of gauge future racing off of the past off of kind of how your trading has been going. And
00:15:14
Speaker
While I do think that it is important to discuss it with your coach that they can get a perspective. Honestly, I don't spend too much time talking with my coach about my time goals. It's more like my mental preparation, you know, my physical preparation. And then it's like, well, the numbers will come. Um, which I think goes to what you were saying about, you know, the, the a goal per se.
00:15:42
Speaker
happens because the race comes to you rather than forcing the race and so I think it's like process versus outcome because numbers are outcome and we can't always control that. I think that the other piece of it I was just gonna say is make sure that you don't just have one goal and you don't have any other ones because that's a very big one. Like I had
00:16:09
Speaker
someone who just said, Hey, here's my spreadsheet. Can you take a look at it? And he had one goal. And I was like, Hey, let's do like a B C tab. Um, just because a, it throws your crew off if they're like, well, we had this number and that's the only number we have. Um, and B everything that's not that is either like, Oh my gosh, am I going too fast or I'm failing. Uh, and so I think just giving yourself a range, um, isn't just the, it's a much,
00:16:39
Speaker
more graceful way to enter a race, we'll say. Yeah, and I'd say thinking about that conversation with your crew as well, or your pacers also. And I love the episode on crewing and pacing. And I think Cody has some great perspective on this. But sometimes, especially if people haven't been as close to it, if you say something like, yeah, my goal is to go sub 24 in this 100 mile race, and then you finish in 25 hours, you know, objectively
00:17:06
Speaker
That is amazing, right? And that's incredible and should be celebrated. But I found sometimes it's interesting. Crew, again, if you're not as into it, things like, OK, well, you had a goal. That was the goal. And you didn't quite make the goal. And making sure they're aware of, look, there's a big range of outcomes. I will be delighted to finish this thing. Maybe it's 24. Maybe it's 28. Set those expectations.
Developing Race Goals: Rankings and Versatility
00:17:29
Speaker
And that can be helpful, too. And let them know, if I'm behind on splits,
00:17:34
Speaker
That's fine. And that happens. And making sure they're staying positive on that front too. I've come across that sometimes. Yeah. And I think it's just the lack of complete awareness of how much those splits can really mess with you. If someone's like, oh, well, you're 30 minutes down. And you're like, maybe just don't tell me that. Or they mean it. It comes from a place of caring.
00:18:04
Speaker
watching you to do your best. But yeah, I can really be a psychological hit if they say, ah, yeah, you're really not doing so hot, are you? You're like, what the heck? You're not out here. Yeah, exactly. And other times we're like, yeah, you know, crew will say something like, Oh, they'll try to say it encouragingly, right? Like, Oh, well, you're behind your splits, but you're not that far behind. And, you know, it doesn't feel great. And then I had one race where, you know, I was working through something, I worked through it.
00:18:33
Speaker
felt great and then started running way faster. And they actually weren't even at the next aid station because they just didn't realize like how much the ups and downs can go, right? And how much you can, you can go from being behind like, no, then actually feeling good or vice versa. So there's, uh, you know, the highs and lows of these long events. Yes, absolutely. Um, that's why I think that's why so many times I have.
00:18:58
Speaker
not truly believed a race was going to have the outcome it did until maybe like a quarter of a mile from the finish because you just, I think the more you do it, the more you realize like you could break your ankle half a mile from the finish and everything could go out the window. So, um, it's a, yeah, hold your cards tight until the finish. Don't start believing it's going to happen until right before the end. Yeah.
00:19:20
Speaker
So when you're actually, so we've talked about coming up with a goal time, but then how do you go about coming up with a race strategy? Um, and how do you help your runners to develop, you know, Hey, we're going to accelerate here. You're going to hold back from here. How does that look for you? So my approach there, um, are the either two or three P's depending on
00:19:45
Speaker
the runner in their mentality. So you mentioned process. So process is the first one, but I think of it in terms of process, then performance, and then depending on the runner placement potentially. But really process needs to be the primary focus for the bulk of the race. So in something long, like 100 mile race, I'll say, look, through mile 50, process goals. That's really all that matters. Try not to know where you are. Like don't worry about where you are in the field. Don't worry about
00:20:14
Speaker
uh, splits or anything like that, just focus on, you know, process this many calories per hour. Um, thinking about forms, thinking about efficiency at aid stations, getting what you need from drop bags, um, whatever other logistics sunscreen, like just, just keep in the process goals. Make sure you're staying on top of everything. And really honestly, like through halfway, that should be the main focus, uh, for most people, for most races.
00:20:41
Speaker
Then from there, if you want to think about, okay, if you've done that well and you actually feel pretty good and pretty fresh, like then you can get to more of like, okay, when maybe can you push a little bit more? And when can you start thinking from a performance standpoint of like, okay, here's how I've been running. Here's how I feel. Um, I know I was, uh, I had this climb or this descent coming up. Maybe I can actually push the pace a little bit on that. Still staying smart and really then, you know, start to bring in more of those performance kind of goals. And then, uh, I think for a lot of runners,
00:21:12
Speaker
Placement may not be the goal, and I think that's great. But I think if you are focused on placement, one thing I'd say is that's really a mile 85, 90 type of thought. So in the 100-mile race, it's processed to mile 50. You can start thinking about performance up to a mile, let's call it 85. And then if you want to, that's when you can start thinking about place and saying, OK, I'm going to try to push and pick up places. So I try to think of it in terms of that framework
00:21:42
Speaker
Yeah, the interesting thing is, you know, where I've, where I've probably done the best at that, like some of the races that have gone just overall the best, like, um, some of the races that have been at Hellbender and Bighorn. I, for whatever reason, did a better job of being able to go in and hold things loosely and didn't care where I was in the field and didn't really think about the overall time and just said, this is my goal. These are the process goals. And this is how I want to feel at mile 50 and just stay on top of things and take care of it. And then.
00:22:12
Speaker
the irony is when you do that well, that's when you probably get the best performance and placement, which I still sometimes forget, but we try. Well, we're, we're human too. It's, uh, yeah, that's a huge part of it. That's absolutely, you know, I think that one of the, I can count how many times people's jaws have dropped when I say that a hundred mile race about
00:22:41
Speaker
Oh, 70 of it is, uh, it's like the approach of the climb. You haven't even gotten to the climb part yet. You know, the actual get on the wall and start your climb. Like you're still approaching. And so, or it's like the buy-in to the actual race. And people are always shocked about that. And I always just say, Nope, you're in a hundred mile race. You're talking 60 plus miles before you are thinking about racing.
00:23:07
Speaker
And so it's all about every decision that you are making in the beginning, 50 miles at least, is going to affect the latter half of your race. And the better decision making you can have, the better off the second half will be. It's really interesting to see.
00:23:29
Speaker
I think you'll have a lot of fun with this hurt is a very, very clear. That course tells you how well you've imagined yourself because it's 520 mile loops. And people will have fantastic three loops, and then they will walk the last two and absolutely lose it. And it is so fascinating to see
The Three P's: Process, Performance, Placement
00:23:52
Speaker
how well that management in the first 60 miles plays out in the second half of the race or the second two loops. Um, and so I, I, the whole time when I was doing hurt last year, I was just thinking, you know, no one cares if you do 60 miles well, uh, it matters if you do a hundred miles well. And so I think so often we can get caught up really early on by that idea that, Oh man, the 60 miles, that was great. And then absolutely blow up.
00:24:21
Speaker
So, very similarly, for me, you know, for a 50K, it's a lot different. You could have to go out fast and aggressive and be really strong throughout the race, especially if you do have stronger goals. I think 100K, you know, honestly with the speed of 100Ks these days, 100Ks definitely have an element of putting the pedal down a bit earlier than I think kind of used to be. But it depends on the 100K.
00:24:50
Speaker
100Ks in the Alps could still be a 15 hour race. So again, I think I've always been a really big advocate of playing it cool and safe the first half, and then really starting to see what you have the second half. And you can tell, I mean, you can get a sense of that. But that's kind of the strategy. It's like, I love the, I got told a long time ago,
00:25:18
Speaker
A great way to check your pace in the beginning is do I think that I could keep this pace, you know, in the second half of the race? And if the answer is no, chill out, relax. Yeah. Yeah. In a long race, it's really easy to think, well, the last third is going to be hard no matter what, right? I'm going to slow down. I'm going to be tired. So I might as well, you know, get that time in the bank or push a bit more in the beginning. It's really easy to think that it doesn't work.
00:25:45
Speaker
And it doesn't work. Yeah. And I was thinking about this question and even, you know, for like a hundred mile distance, I think the last four hundreds I've run, I think have been like even splits or slightly negative. And there's some course nuance there, like Bighorn is an out and back and it's about a pretty significant net downhill in the second half. Um, yeah. So there's some other factors at play, but you know, I think you can do that. And you know, that idea of banking time, like
00:26:13
Speaker
doesn't, doesn't really play out. And if you do manage it well, like, and you've trained well, you can, you know, really close well in that last part of
Essential Race Gear and Preparation
00:26:23
Speaker
the race. And it's a such, it's so much more fun, motivating way to do it too, right? Because, you know, you're feeling good, you're passing people versus the opposite. So it's a good mindset. And I always say, like, at least have that mindset and work towards those process goals and, and try to do that. I think your point of
00:26:41
Speaker
the shorter, more intense efforts, which sometimes are longer intense efforts like in some of these 100K performances is a good one too. And that's the one case where I, you know, we'll certainly train a lot with heart rate data, but not always race with it. But I actually think heart rate data can be helpful as more of a governor to know like where that line is and to say like, okay, I will push a bit more
00:27:03
Speaker
and say that's 50K, but I won't go above this heart rate on the first big climb as a way to just manage that kind of intensity and effort. So that's another tool you can have in your arsenal. I recommend heart rate more as like a governor on the high end to not go above on a race day type effort, but that can help make sure you're making it sustainable for the back half. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's a good balance there with the heart rate.
00:27:30
Speaker
I find mine jacks up no matter kind of what I do just because of nerves, taper, etc. But I am aware, you know, if I, I actually say that I give myself about 5k to be a total idiot at the start of races, because almost always you're going out fast, especially in Europe, you're just booking it out. And I always just go, okay, I'm just gonna let this be kind of dumb. And then I will settle in. And
00:27:59
Speaker
And then if my heart rate still stays really high, I'll be backing off quite a bit because I can't let myself go past this point. But I will say that I do give myself a little bit of grace to start just because sometimes you have to get out quick in Europe to get to like shoot the gap into a tight trail or narrow trail. And so giving yourself a little grace at the start, but then really being a bit more firm after you get out of that kind of chaotic energy of the start.
00:28:28
Speaker
will help you in the later half. So when you are going about, we've kind of figured out a race strategy. We figured out maybe a time goal, et cetera. How do you then go about writing it down, giving it to your crew? Are you Google spreadsheets? Or how do you break down those actual, let's have some numbers to look at?
00:28:59
Speaker
Oh, so many spreadsheets, Alyssa, so many spreadsheets. I'm shocked. Yeah, very surprising. Yeah, I think writing down splits and the split ranges is super helpful. And again, not holding too tightly to it, but saying, look, this is the fastest end, this is the slowest end, or the cutoff times, whatever that is, just so your crew can have some idea to plan. And when you're doing that, what's helpful too
00:29:25
Speaker
is to actually have not just like the total time in the race, but the split for each section. So I mentioned that case where I've had times where like one section didn't go great and I was behind pace and crew thought they had two hours and I mean to the next day station and an hour and a half and they weren't there yet, which is totally fine, but you can plan for that by giving them the distance splits between the aid station to focus on. So I definitely would give them that to be able to focus on
00:29:55
Speaker
And then gear as well, so have the gear lists so they know what's there and can reference that. And sometimes it's hard in the middle of a race, but knowing, okay, this gear is what's there, what's in the drop bag, what's in the crew bag. Try to get some idea of what you think you might want at each aid station, just to make the job easier for crew and write down.
00:30:16
Speaker
Okay. I think, you know, I'll probably be going into the night around this section and up to this climb. So it's going to get colder. So this is where I should get some night gear, right? Like a warmer hat and shell. And as much as you can plan that out and write it out for your crew, so they can have that leg up, that would be, that's super helpful. And I also think, you know, when you have your nutrition plan and definitely recommend, you know, having a nutrition plan built out.
00:30:41
Speaker
Give that to your crew as well so they can get a pulse of what's going on and have an idea of, are you ahead of that? Are you behind that? Are you filling too few refills of soft glass? You're not going through what you have. So give them a sense of what you think you'll have, both overall but on each section. So ideally, each section between crew or between drop bags, you have that mapped out. I usually put that in a spreadsheet, and then we'll have that for the crew as well.
00:31:11
Speaker
And then try to give them like, that's a lot of information, right? And so I do get that part as well and try to think of like, okay, what are the truly the most important things and separate that out of like, I need a headlamp at the same station, right? These are the things like everybody needs, and I need to make sure like we don't forget and really have those must have type things so those don't get lost. So yeah, so I kind of think about it and try to help provide that.
00:31:40
Speaker
Yeah, that's great. You know, I think having those spreadsheets, knowing that they'll change, but giving your crew a sense of timing is really helpful and to just give yourself a framework as well. I find, you know, depending on the race. So for example, Dragon's Back had splits on everyone with checkpoints. So that was really useful for me for planning purposes of being like, Hey, I think it's going to take me approximately this time.
00:32:07
Speaker
So I'm going to check these splits. Um, a lot of other races will give some information about when people are hitting checkpoints, you can kind of find someone you think you might be similar to, um, and use those in your strategies. Um, yeah, always take a headlamp one aid station earlier than you expect. So if you're like, Oh yeah, this is going to be the aid station right about here. It's going to be some, yeah, take the one at 5pm. Don't do seven. Um, it's always earlier.
00:32:37
Speaker
Yeah. And you know, I think the, the thing to remember too, is that your crew is doing an enormous favor and you can like, please don't get bad at them. Be nice to them. They're doing the best they can. And you all have to roll with the punches and the more organized, like I label everything. Um, I use a bunch of.
00:33:03
Speaker
Like I have, uh, one of the companies I work for gives me clothing and bags and I just use those bags and I label everything of like aid station here. So I kind of try to do the work for my crew beforehand where within my numbers, I'll also be like, Hey, here's the bag that I need. It's already marked with the aid station. So just the more work you can do for your crew beforehand, the easier it will be, um, that they won't be fumbling around and not have any idea.
00:33:32
Speaker
Um, where your stuff is and you're just making their lives a lot harder. Yeah. I used to be guilty of what I'll call like the big bag of stuff approach with crew and just having this duffel bag with tons of stuff in there, which is really hard for the crew. Um, and I've definitely moved more towards, okay. Yes. Like overall, there's this stuff that had the separated bags. Okay. So, um, if you're going to see me here as like recently at UTMB, for example, right. My wife knew.
00:34:01
Speaker
A champe lock, like here's the bag, small bag that's labeled champe lock, like with the nutrition and supplements that I need for champe lock. And then here's triant and here's valor seam. So whether it's a drop bag, whether you don't have crew and are using drop bags, or you are using crew, doing that is really helpful. And sometimes you hit multiple drop bags, or sorry, one drop bag multiple times in a race. And a lot of times your crew is moving the same bag for you.
00:34:31
Speaker
So separating out what you want at each spot, using those separate bags, labeling it, putting your warmer nighttime clothes in one bag that's labeled there, and extra daytime clothes in a different bag, trying to make that as easy as possible for the crew. Yeah, I don't think you can. I've never heard a crew member say, gosh, you were over organized. What a pain. So yeah, I would.
00:35:01
Speaker
I would definitely err on the side of, you know, break it up, especially nutrition. I think that's, you know, just like put it all, put each one in, in every bag. And then you have an idea and actually you brought up a great point about, um, checking your runner's nutrition. That's something Cody has said multiple times that he wishes he did more with me is just like, Hey, show me your rappers. Um, because I've had, I've worked with people and they'll straight up lie. And they're like, I, they told me before the race.
00:35:30
Speaker
that they would lie about how much they had eaten. I was like, that is the most fascinating thing anyone's told me. But thank you for telling me that you will lie to my face. So keep them honest. Yeah, I was running the Cruel Jewel 100 a couple of years ago. And I did a little bit too much of the big bag of stuff approach, which predictably did not go great. And I remember I had a friend who was running
00:35:58
Speaker
And we were running together like back and forth for a lot of the race and it was around mile, I don't know, 70 maybe. And it was nighttime. We both got into an eight station together and her crew was there. And they had this, I can only describe it as like a, like a tackle box that opens out.
00:36:17
Speaker
and had a really big one with tons of compartments. So everything was laid out super neatly in this giant contraption with a separate space for everything. So one gel here, one gel there, electrolytes, like all laid out. And it was just so organized. I remember looking over and then looking over at my bag of stuff and being like, I gotta up my game here. And she was so organized and she made me in that race. So, you know, maybe,
00:36:46
Speaker
Maybe it paid off. Yeah, I do. This is now the big bag of stuff approach that's going to become a new term. I love it. We all have to do it a few times. But yeah, honestly, other thing is get military people to crew for you and they will whip you into shape. They will not let you get away with big bag of stuff. They don't do that. They don't work that way.
00:37:13
Speaker
So let's get into the gear side of things, because we have kind of started to dip in that direction. What are your kind of, I always bring this with me when I'm racing, and then how do you kind of start figuring out your gear as you're packing for a race? Yeah, we talked about this one a bit, I think, when talking about your recent races, but for starters, bring the required gear.
00:37:44
Speaker
Don't try to shortcut it. Look at the list. Bring this stuff on the list. Whether the race, I'll get questions of, well, does this race actually check the gear? Or does that race check the gear? And my answer is always, just bring this stuff. It's there for a reason, and you need to have it. So that's the starting point. Any time you're in any mountainous environment, whether it's on that list or not, I would also have things like a safety blanket, things like a waterproof shell.
00:38:13
Speaker
probably like some lightweight gloves and a lightweight hat. Just a couple of basic, you're in the mountains, you might be out at night, it might get cold, just basic type of things that you'd want to have. On the hydration and nutrition front, so certainly have hydration with you. I will always at minimum have two front flasks, no matter how frequent the aid stations are. And one thing I recommend too is at least have the capacity to have more.
00:38:40
Speaker
So even if you don't fill it, put a third soft flask in your pack. It weighs almost nothing. If you're realizing it's taking you longer between aid stations and the day gets higher than expected and you're three hours instead of two hours, at least you have it then. So always have the option for a little more hydration capacity. Always bring some form of electrolytes, you know, whatever your preferred form is. If you have electrolyte caps or powders or something else, you know, I recommend bringing that.
00:39:09
Speaker
more calories than you think you need. Have a plan, have that nutrition plan, but have a bit extra, dial it up a little bit. You said a very good thing, which is have your headlamp and aid station before you think you're going to need it, which I think you should at minimum
Electrolyte and Hydration Management
00:39:28
Speaker
do that. There are some times where I say,
00:39:30
Speaker
But just bring the small headlamp the whole time. And maybe you get the heavy one for nighttime, the bigger, more powerful, slightly heavier one. But have something. So there's some lightweight options out there. They don't weigh a ton. Then you have it at least. I always recommend having some kind of anti-chafe, whatever you use. But there's things like squirrels nut butter makes of really tiny tubes that are pretty easy to throw in a pack.
00:40:00
Speaker
So that's a lot of the stuff that would pretty much always have most any race, most any distance, pretty much any conditions as a minimum. And then obviously depending on the race can be other things as well. Excellent. And this is kind of a subtopic of that. What is your basis of polls or not polls for a race? I have kind of weird numbers that I've crafted in my head, but what are your feelings about that?
00:40:30
Speaker
I use poles in a lot of races. There is probably some threshold of where poles can be helpful versus not. I have my own numbers that I probably use. I think for me personally, that number is around 20,000 feet of climbing for a 100-mile race or that ratio, roughly. That being said, one thing I would say is if
00:40:55
Speaker
If you're tired towards the end, or if for some reason things aren't going as well as you might have thought, or the course is harder than you thought, or a lot of times the VRP profile isn't always accurate, it's good to have the option. So if I'm not using polls, I will usually still have them with crew or in a drop bag. But in general, I'm a fan of having polls as part of that practicing and training with them. And there's a lot of technique to them.
00:41:22
Speaker
And for the most part, what I do and what I recommend is try to use them on those steeper uphills where they're going to be really helpful. But for the most part, try to store them on the flats and downhills, because I find it affects form and cadence, and you tend to run a bit less efficiently and a bit slower. The kind of fact of that is, yeah, if you're really tired and you really just need them to take some of the burden off the legs, then they can make sense later in a race to use them on a downhill, for example.
00:41:51
Speaker
And I remember the first time I ran UTMB, I used them on all three of the last steep downhills. I don't think I've done that since then, but it was really helpful then. But yeah, it's good to have them, practice with them. And part of that practice is, how do you store them? How do you attach them to your pack? How do you deploy them? How do you put them back and do that efficiently, especially if you are planning on using them on, say, uphills, but then stilling them for flats and downs? Yeah. No, I totally agree.
00:42:21
Speaker
I would say really it's a raised profile, so I've run a 50k that was 8,000 feet, which normally you'd be like, yeah, that's a lot for a 50k, but it was the most runnable 8,000 feet I've ever done. So poles actually wouldn't have been that useful for it. So I do a combination of elevation and looking at the elevation profile, coming back to that.
00:42:43
Speaker
Um, because if you have a lot of, like you can have a lot of elevation gain, but if it's just more on the rolling hillside poles actually really aren't that helpful. I find the same thing, um, that you just said that if I have them out on downhills and flats, um, unless I'm, you know, have destroyed my quads and I'm super tired, I run slowly. Um, like I definitely slow down because of them. Uh, they can be a little bit trickier to eat with. And so.
00:43:12
Speaker
Yeah, just really looking at the elevation profile, you know, are there some really big climbs where you're going up several thousand feet? Because, you know, there could be a race where there's only, say it's a 50K, there's 5,000 feet, but there's a 2,000 foot and a 3,000 foot hill and they're really steep and you might want them for those sections. So I think just being aware of your race also, if you do decide to use them, practicing with them,
00:43:40
Speaker
Absolutely. Um, and I think they're really helpful as you do fatigue. Like I didn't use them until the fifth loop of hurt. And I found them really helpful just because it's very technical terrain and you just start getting more fatigued, um, with that. Yeah. I remember I made the call to not bring them the big horn last year, which is right around that 20,000 foot. And I waffled on it, but I did not bring them. And then we hit mile.
00:44:09
Speaker
30, maybe 32. And there was a drop bag there. So I could have had them in that drop bag and not use them at the start. But then we were coming up on a 5,000 foot climb. And I was in a low moment too. So I was not feeling good going into this climb and had to go up 5,000 feet without my poles. And then people were going past me and I had some pole envy. I must say I really wanted to snag somebody's pole while they're going by me and use it for this uphill. And luckily things turned around and it turned out well.
00:44:39
Speaker
Um, that was a good reminder that, yeah, you might want them on some sections. Yeah, I will. One piece of advice though, is that there are some races that will only allow you to have polls if you start and end with them. So just check the race, um, the race rules for what they require. Um, kind of goes back to the headlamps thing. I know most UTMB races require you to have two the whole time. They won't let you switch it out. Um,
00:45:08
Speaker
Yeah, just to add on to what I carry, I always carry Squirrels Not Butter. I have more than once had issues and been super thankful for Squirrels Not Butter. I generally bring, I almost always bring some form of ID, sometimes a credit card, some form of payment just in case something weird happens.
00:45:33
Speaker
Um, and then I like to bring some kind of a buff or something to like wipe my face off, um, or just kind of like cool myself down. You know, you can stick some ice in there, but I find that helpful. Also, if you're going into the night, it's just a nice extra layer. I tend to always run with the hat and sunglasses. Um, and then yeah, just proper fueling. I love the extra water bottle. I always bring an extra water bottle just cause you want that carrying capacity.
00:46:02
Speaker
Um, especially if it's a rugged area, often that extra water bottle will be a filter bottle. Uh, and so that if there are stream crossings, I can filter some water. Um, you know, there is always that balance of weight and speed, but I do think being just slightly cautious is never a bad thing because things happen in races and we think of them as very controlled environments and truly they're not, you know, yes, there's a flag on that.
00:46:30
Speaker
piece of trail, but it's still a trail and there's still a lot of things that can happen out there as well. Yeah, I think the filter bottle is a great one and is really helpful on some courses. I'm curious when you do that, how do you think about the electrolyte aspect, right? Because if you're getting your electrolytes in your bottles, you kind of can't really with the filter or do you put electrolytes in there or do you just up like electrolyte caps? How do you navigate that?
00:46:58
Speaker
Truly, that's a great question and I haven't fully figured it out yet because I've not found an electrolyte that filters well in that. I also don't necessarily trust that. I just would be worried about the filtration system. Also, it doesn't go through. I've tried it before with just normal water. I will occasionally, if I'm on top of it, use salt tabs. I do try to
00:47:29
Speaker
have one bottle with electrolytes and keep that. You know, it's a question I haven't fully figured out. I wouldn't say that I am the heaviest sweater or like the most electrolyte dependent person. So I can get away with what I probably shouldn't all the time.
00:47:53
Speaker
Um, but it's something that I want to keep figuring out. I do think having, if you have practice with them and are used to them, having a few backup salt pills or salt tabs or something along those lines is not a bad idea because there might be a time where you had an aid station where you don't have a drop bag or a crew and maybe they run out of electrolytes or something. And if you just have a few backup salt tabs.
00:48:17
Speaker
I think that's really useful and just a little bit safer, especially if you know if electrolytes are an issue for you.
Drop Bag Organization and Weather Planning
00:48:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I agree. Do you have any insight on that? Yeah, it's good to know what your electrolyte concentration is for that one. Like I have some idea of like, you know, do you do well with 600 milligrams per liter or 800 or 1000? So then if you're like, okay, I'm taking a half a liter of just water, I might need to get
00:48:46
Speaker
three or 400 milligrams of extra sodium. So if this electrolyte cap has 150, maybe I can take two of them with this bottle. But it's tricky. Yeah, that's a hard one. And then you have to have that with you too. So and plan ahead for that. Yeah, you know, it's, it's something that
00:49:04
Speaker
Like I said, I definitely want to become more knowledgeable or at least I started looking to sell pills a lot more just because I do think they're a useful tool. I think for a while we were personally, I was kind of afraid of them because they just heard some horror stories. Uh, but I do think they're really useful, especially I do a lot of big solo stuff where I have to filter water, you know, that I can't, I don't want to carry four liters of water on me. Um, and so it's something I'm learning a lot more about.
00:49:33
Speaker
And I do think it's a really great backup in races. I mean, makes a huge difference. Yeah, I wish Boab had had a little bit more water in part. I definitely would have filtered. And then maybe I wouldn't have been so dead at mile 50. But it all turned out well. Yeah, it all turned out fine. So one of our last questions, and we've touched on this a bit, is drop bags.
00:50:01
Speaker
What, how do you go about setting up your drop bags? How do you even just like get them to where they're supposed to be? Walk us through your experience with those. Yes. That's a place where again, it's good to really study the course and do it well ahead of time because knowing, okay, how many drop bags are there? How long is it going to take you roughly to get to them? Gives you a good idea. And you know, you might have cases where, you know,
00:50:31
Speaker
I'm thinking of canyons this year, Alyssa, right? With some of the course changes, we didn't have a drop bag between mile 14 and 50, basically, right? No crew, no drop bags. There was a huge gap. Yep. So knowing that and knowing, okay, I need to be used to carrying what I need for 36 miles and however long it's going to take me. And then what do my resupplies need to look like? And so from there, you know, plan section to section. So plan your nutrition.
00:50:57
Speaker
in those different chunks so that you know you have enough for each section and then label those sections because the further it is into the race the more tired you are and the easier it is if you come to that bag and it says okay you have one bag but inside it's you know nutrition is here maybe it's electrolytes are here and then here's my gear and here's my headlamp and try to like
00:51:22
Speaker
compartmentalize that and try to channel that runner with their tackle box and have it as easy as possible to navigate. And the nice thing is if you put all your nutrition in one, say, like a Ziploc bag, you can just take that with you and sort that out as you go at the aid station. And you don't need to go like, OK, I need to fish for these four gels and these two chews and go through all of that. So I would plan it out that way. One thing I'd really like to do is if you're using powders in your bottles,
00:51:50
Speaker
I think it's a good investment to have some extra bottles that you pre-fill with some of the powders. I wouldn't put the water in because then they can leak or explode if something is on top of them where they're transported. But if you're swapping out two or three bottles with powders, it's nice not to have to, at that aid station, try to fill with two to three bottles that way and it's spilling all over the place. So I think that's a good strategy if you have some of those extras and have that as part of that
00:52:17
Speaker
nutrition in a separate bag there. And then make sure you know what's going where. Double check the labels. Double check which aid station needs to be where, where things get dropped off. I've had races where dropped bags didn't get there. And it was probably my fault. I don't know for sure. But I probably didn't put it in the right spot or didn't put it in the wrong location for it.
00:52:45
Speaker
Double check that and make sure, again, you look ahead of time in terms of what needs to be there. When do your drop bags need to be dropped off? Sometimes it's actually quite far ahead of the race. Sometimes it's the day before you have to have your drop bags. Like really double check all that, plan it, and then try to have it as organized and labeled and structured as you can. Yeah. I mean, that's definitely, it just goes back to, I think the runner's manual becomes your restaurant.
Managing Pre-race Anxiety
00:53:12
Speaker
And I don't think you can look, I mean, if you look at my like frequently viewed tabs right before a race, it's the race, the runner's manual or like the race website. It's like.
00:53:23
Speaker
look, look, look, just double, triple check where you're supposed to have them. Yeah, have them really well labeled. And I love the idea with the extra water bottles. I have had situations where things have broken on me. It's actually why I do not use bladders is I had a bladder break on me in a race and I carried a plastic water bottle, like a plastic jug, like a juice jug for
00:53:50
Speaker
I think it was about 60 plus kilometers, which really didn't feel good on my back. And, um, you know, if I'd had a drop bag with extra bottles, then, you know, it would have saved me a lot of stripes. So I do think, you know, you don't have to go crazy overboard. You don't have to have like backup, some backups and backups, but I do think some of those key things where, you know, something breaks. Just, it doesn't weigh much. Just throw it in and you'll probably be happy. Um, in case that does happen.
00:54:20
Speaker
Yeah, I'd also have the mindset that while the race might try, it's not their job to guarantee it stays dry. So your drop bag might get wet. So plant it that way and use dry bags and use, you know, different waterproof bags for, for both your food and nutrition. But also if you want to have spare layers, you know, you want those to stay dry as well. So think about bad aspect and make sure that if it rains during the race, you know, regardless of what the forecast says.
00:54:50
Speaker
your drop bag will survive that and everything will stay dry inside. Yeah, that's great advice. And also if they do not supply the drop bags to you, make it colorful. Make it stand out so that if you're trying to find it, you can find it. Colorful duct tape is a good, it's a beautiful thing. So last question, what is your best advice for race day nerves?
00:55:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's a tough one, you know, with these big challenges and it's going to happen. Um, I don't know if we've talked about it or if you've read it, but the book called the obstacle is the way you come across that. No, but I'll put it on the list. Um, I think it's a great, great read. Like it goes into a lot of different topics and, you know, even goes into like, you know, Greek philosophers, but the general premise, as you guessed from the title is.
00:55:47
Speaker
A lot of times, the obstacle itself is what you're looking for and is what you're striving for. Remember, we're doing this because it's hard. I think that can be relaxing in a way where you're not worrying about it. You're not afraid of it. You're realizing, no, I'm here because it's hard and because it's going to be challenging. That's why I signed up for this. You can embrace that a bit more and just realize that
00:56:11
Speaker
Um, that's not something, you know, while it's hard to not be afraid of it, you know, that's something that you should embrace because it's why you're doing it. Um, I always like to try to remember like just how cool these things are, right? Like what an amazing thing that you're doing. It's, it's incredible, right? And sometimes because we're training so much or we've done it for a while, we kind of forget like, yeah, this is awesome. Like, and this is amazing. And how cool is this course that I get to run here and make sure not to lose sight of that part of it. And then.
00:56:40
Speaker
The last thing I guess is to try to think back of all the hard things you've done before and just really remember that. So whether that's hard races or tough moments in races or difficult training sessions. The model of hurt is we wouldn't want it to be easy. And one of my friends made me a bracelet because of my first hurt finish and on it says we wouldn't want it to be easy. And I have worn this bracelet since she gave it to me in I think 2017.
00:57:09
Speaker
Uh, and so I, that's what I always say is just, we didn't start this race because we thought it was guaranteed or because we thought that it wouldn't come without challenges. We do. I mean, we do these silly things because they are challenging. Um, and then the other piece is exactly what you just said of, um, honoring your training is one of my favorite phrases where you've done the work and now it's time to honor it, to put your best foot forward and have fun.
00:57:36
Speaker
It is amazing that we get to do this stuff. We're so lucky. And I think just remembering that and bringing that joy and happiness is one of the best ways that you can make it through those dark moments and laugh in the face of our lows. Yeah, exactly. Awesome. Well, well, thank you so much for this. Thank you for helping us wrap up the trail running season. I am going to guess that our,
00:58:03
Speaker
our alpinists and our ice climbers are going, yes, finally done with the trail running. Come back to the technical mountain sports, but it's been such a pleasure to bring this series to you. I hope that everyone has learned and truly trail running and building your aerobic base. All of this is super applicable to any mountain sport and makes us all better mountain athletes across the board.
00:58:33
Speaker
So thank you for listening to the Uphill athlete podcast. If you could rate, review, and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform, that helps us to reach more athletes. If you'd like to write to us, please email coach at uphillathlete.com or visit uphillathlete.com. It's not just one, but a community. We are Uphill athletes.