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Incredibles 2 (2018)
245 Plays1 year ago
This week, Perry is joined by Connor Burke of No Highway Option to discuss Incredibles 2, the long-delayed sequel to Brad Bird's hit superhero movie. We go into the film's history, some of the things that it does really well (like the epic chase scene and the depiction of parenthood), and some places where things could have been better.
Check out No Highway Option on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and LinkTree, and follow Connor on Twitter, TikTok, and Letterboxd.
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PARAGONS OF EARTH is a comic book project I’m developing with Thomas Deja and Eric Johns. You can support the project by visiting crowdfundr.com/paragonscomic.
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Transcript
Introduction & Paragons of Earth Comic
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey guys, before we get into the episode, I wanted to tell you a little bit about Paragons of Earth, the exciting new superhero comic I'm working on with Thomas DJ and Eric Johns. For this comic, we've unearthed a number of obscure and forgotten Golden Age superheroes, plucked them from the depths of the public domain, and completely redesigned and reinvented them for the modern day. It's an exciting cast of characters, and we're throwing them up against the threat of a Lovecraftian apocalypse.
00:00:24
Speaker
It's got action, it's got drama, it's got alternate dimensions and alien worlds, and it's even got a giant shark and Hawaiian shirt. What else could you want? But in order to make this comic a reality, we need your help. The comic is crowdfunding now, and you can help support it by going to crowdfunder.com slash paragonscomic.
00:00:42
Speaker
That's Crowdfunder Without the E dot com slash Paragons Comic. You'll be able to find that link in the show notes, so please double check if you didn't quite get it. Please help make this comic a reality. We are counting on your support. And now, on with the show.
Family Dynamics in Superhero Worlds
00:01:11
Speaker
Are we going to talk about it? What? The elephant in the room. What elephant? I guess not then. You're referring to today. Yeah, what's the deal with today? We all made mistakes. For example, you kids were supposed to watch Jack Jack. Babysitting. Well, you guys did the important stuff. We talked about this. You're not old enough to decide about these things.
00:01:32
Speaker
We are old enough to help out. Yeah. Isn't that what you tell us, Dad? Yeah, well, help out can mean many different things. But we're supposed to help if there's trouble. Well, yeah. Aren't you glad we helped today? I know, but... You said that you were proud of us. Well, yeah, I was. Em. We want to fight bad guys. I give you bad guys. No, you don't.
00:01:52
Speaker
You said things were different now. And they were. On the island. But I didn't mean that from now on... So now we've gotta go back to never using our power. It defines who I am. We're not saying you have... What? Someone on TV said it. Can we just eat? The dinner? While it's hot?
00:02:10
Speaker
Did we do something wrong? No. We didn't do anything wrong. Superheroes are illegal. Whether it's fair or not, that's the law. The law should be fair. What are we teaching our kids? To respect the law. Even when the law is disrespectful? If laws are unjust, there are laws to change them. Otherwise, it's chaos. Which is exactly what we have.
00:02:38
Speaker
I just thought it was kind of cool. What was fighting crime as a family. It was cool, but it's over. The world is what it is. We have to adapt our things. Bad things are fine.
Guest Introduction: Connor Burke
00:02:58
Speaker
Welcome to the superhero cinephiles podcast. I'm your host, Perry Constantine, and I'm welcoming a new guest today. And that is Connor Burke. Connor, how are you doing today? I'm doing great, Perry. How about you?
00:03:09
Speaker
I'm doing pretty good. I'm doing pretty good. So why don't you tell the audience a little bit about yourself? Who are you? What do you do? All that kind of fun stuff.
Concept of No Highway Option Podcast
00:03:18
Speaker
Sure. So I'm Connor. I'm one of the co-hosts of a movie podcast called No Highway Option, where, you know, there are so many movie podcasts out there, we decided to go with a no one's used as of yet, where we compare every movie to Vin Diesel's The Pacifier from 2005.
00:03:38
Speaker
Uh, you know, just, just for fun. Cause it's such a strange movie. Um, it's yeah, it's a lot of fun and I've been enjoying, you know, watching movies and discussing them for years. That's an interesting approach. How did you guys choose that movie out of all of them to come up with? Just, I think in college, it was referenced briefly once and then my co-host Luke was like, Oh yeah, I know that. And we were like, Oh cool. Someone else knows this.
00:04:09
Speaker
weird nonsense movie. And then we and then it came on Disney Plus, and we were looking for some way to start some kind of podcast. And I was like, this thing's weird enough that like, maybe this should be the basis of it. And it evolved from there. Very interesting. So how long have you guys been doing the show?
Origin & Evolution of No Highway Option
00:04:30
Speaker
We've been doing it, we started it in pandemic. So like,
00:04:34
Speaker
Technically three years, we took the last year off and we just recently came back with like a bit of a new format and just trying to keep it going again. Well, welcome back. I'm glad you're able to make it back into the podcast realm. A bunch of people did kind of the same thing where they started up in the pandemic and then after lockdowns ended, the podcasting just kind of faded into the background, unfortunately. So it's good to see that some people have stuck with it though.
00:05:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, no, there are more than a few guests who we had on for like multiple episodes during the pandemic where when we started back up, we reached back out like, Hey, how have you been? And then we get an email back. That's like, this email has been terminated and no one will ever read these again. It's like, Oh, I don't know what happened there, but okay. Yeah. I've had a few of those, um, where, you know, it's been talking to guests, you know, we spoke back and forth or potential guests and just just disappeared and never heard anything from them again.
00:05:33
Speaker
Yeah, you always hope they're doing well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, hopefully it was just they got bored with it and they moved on to something else as opposed to something more tragic. Yeah, exactly.
Connor's Superhero Origins
00:05:45
Speaker
This is obviously a superhero movie podcast. So what is your history with superheroes, either movies, comics, anything like that? I mean, I've I've like really been a fan of superheroes and just the general medium, I guess.
00:06:02
Speaker
since I was about maybe six years old, because that's when the first Sam Raimi Spider-Man came out for me. And it was like my first movie and I saw the marketing and was like, this guy is cool. And so then I would go to the library and I found the comic section, they had like all the
00:06:21
Speaker
like omnibus collections of the sixties and seventies comics for like Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, Hulk, and I would devour those. And it's just, you know, it's always stuck with me. It's a fun, it's a fun genre. It's easy to pick a favorite and like, you know, that's, they're always coming out now. So it's a thing to always keep up with.
00:06:46
Speaker
Have you kept up with the comics and the likes since you first started reading them when you first got into Spider-Man? A little less. It's definitely been more movie focused recently, but with a lot of the big releases that came out, I would jump back into the comics at least to read their, like to look at those storylines and be like, okay, how could these compare?
Preparing for Avengers: Infinity War
00:07:12
Speaker
The biggest time I did that was for Infinity War, like when they first announced, oh, we're doing the two part Infinity War saga. I like read the original Infinity Gauntlet run and was like, okay, maybe this'll be how it works. And then my friend saw it like the night before I did. And he put on my Facebook wall, a thing that was like, haha, spoilers without context. And one of the last images was someone snapping their finger.
00:07:40
Speaker
And I was like, that's just mean. And he's like, how am I supposed to know that you knew what was going to happen? I'm like, you know, I read the books. Yeah, it's funny that it's first off, they got the title Infinity War, although that's a completely unrelated story. Right. Yeah. The whole movie is basically the Thanos quest storyline and then and then the very opening page of Infinity Gauntlet is what they use as the ender of that movie.
00:08:08
Speaker
Yeah, it, it was a lot. And it was like, Oh, okay. They're doing it. I guess, I guess I'm mostly prepared now, but that was a, that was a, that was a Mo because I remember seeing that movie in the theater and I.
Impact of Avengers: Infinity War
00:08:21
Speaker
Just, you know, logically thinking about it, I had expected it to come. So so I wasn't surprised when it happened, but everybody else in the theater was not expecting it. So it was just like it was just completely silent. And I live in Japan where normally there aren't any reactions at all. But in the when the credits started rolling, I heard some people being like, wait, what? Oh, no. That's the biggest one was I was working at Disney World at the time.
00:08:51
Speaker
And a lot of my roommates had off and they went to like the big opening night thing. And I had just finished my shift at the magic kingdom and I came back and everyone was just like staring at the floor, like just depressed. And of course I was like, Oh, how was the movie guys? Like trying to jokingly put on the brightest face I could. And they're like, I don't know what to tell you about it, man.
00:09:15
Speaker
It's really messed up, I'm like, oh cool, so Spider-Man dies? And then I watched it, I was like, oh I hate that, I was right, I was kidding.
00:09:26
Speaker
Okay. Um, yeah, yeah. There was a, there was some that definitely surprised me. I mean, I knew they were all coming back in the next movie, but it was funny to see like the reaction when people are like, wait, wait, wait. They just came out with a Spider-Man movie and a Black Panther movie and they're dead now. What what's going on? And I was like, they'll be back. They'll be back. It's okay. It happened in the comics. Spider-Man movie next year. And now he's got like, was he going to be?
00:09:52
Speaker
The Spider-Man stuff recently has gotten me back into trying to find some of the new runs of the comics, especially seeing all the variants in Across the Spider-Verse. I picked up Spider-Punk Collection as soon as that movie ended because I was like, this guy rules.
00:10:09
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I love what they did with Spider-Punk in that movie. He's incredible. Yeah. I was so glad I got to see it because I was late to the game on that because, you know, like I said, I live in Japan. So usually when Western animated movies come out in theaters here, they only come out with the dubbed version. They don't come out with the subtitled version like most of the live action movies do. So I would have to wait until it came out on video and
00:10:34
Speaker
We're actually flying back from the States. And fortunately, it was one of the choices that was on the plane on the way back. So I made sure to watch that and and fight the jet lag so I could stay up for the whole movie. Hmm.
Excitement for Spider-Man 2 Game
00:10:48
Speaker
But anyway, so another thing I would like to ask new guests is what kind of thing are they into lately? So what kind of stuff is kind of grabbing your attention these days? It could be books, movies, comics, video games, whatever it might be, superhero related or not. What's kind of grabbing your interest these days?
Gaming on PS5 & Life Changes
00:11:08
Speaker
I mean superhero related to keep it on spider-man I guess I've been frothing at the mouth for the spider-man 2 video game and like just pouring over all of the details of the previews for that like that's almost been a show in itself yeah I sorry go ahead no continue
00:11:29
Speaker
I was just going to say that I, um, cause I don't have a PS five yet. I, I'm still just working off the PS four, but, and I just recorded our episode on Superman two yesterday with, with our guests there. And we were talking a little bit about, about gaming and stuff like that. Um,
00:11:44
Speaker
And yeah, there's the Spider-Man 2 game. There's the Wolverine game that's been announced, but nothing else since that announcement trailer. Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. There's the Jedi Outcast game, I think my guest yesterday was talking about. There's a lot of good, especially from geek property stuff coming out on the PlayStation. I had been an Nintendo kid my entire life.
00:12:13
Speaker
And then one day I just had the money and saw a thing where it was like, you're guaranteed to get it from Walmart. If you like log on on this day. And I was like, you know what? They have the two Spider-Man games. Like they have the miles Morales thing. I'm going to bite the bullet and buy a PS five. Like what can go wrong? And the, like the Spider-Man game and the miles Morales expansion pack are so much fun and like just.
00:12:39
Speaker
Made me so excited. And now to see that you can be both of them and Venom's going to be there. I'm like, this is I, I'm so excited. Yeah. I keep periodically, I will start up the Spider-Man on the PS2 and just swing through New York. It's just unbelievably satisfying to do that. Um, I won't do any missions or anything. I'll just, you know, start it up and I'll just go web swinging throughout the entire map. Yeah. Just find a little crime and then you go, Oh, okay. I guess. And then move on.
00:13:10
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I am, I, so I told my wife, I, I done a back to back viewing of the, the latest, one of the latest Spider-Man two trailers and then the, uh, the re the final fantasy seven rebirth trailer. And I'm just like, okay, I have got to get a PS five in the next year. It's like becoming non-negotiable now. You like presented those two trailers on a slideshow being like, this is why I need this.
00:13:35
Speaker
Well, it's funny, when she was pregnant with both our kids, we were setting up the baby registry. And I said to her, I'm like, can we put a PS5 on there? And she's like, no, you can't put a PS5 on the baby registry. I'm like, well, why not? I mean, you know, the kid's up at night. We got to, you know, once you put them to sleep, you're kind of up or you're way. So you got to have something to occupy your time. And, you know, when they get older, they'll want to play it too. But I was not able to convince her.
00:14:09
Speaker
Um, but yeah, God, I'm so looking forward to getting those at some point and hopefully finding the time my kids are hopefully going to be starting preschool in the spring. So I'll have a little bit more free time as well. Just a little bit of free time. Yeah. Yeah. Because I do. Speaking of games, I have, um, I recently got, uh, the man eater game on the PS4. It's the, where you, you play is like this evolving shark.
00:14:28
Speaker
It was logical but I was not able to convince her unfortunately.
00:14:34
Speaker
And it's fun, but it's also yeah, it's fun, but it's also kind of monotonous because it takes you a long ass time to level up and it takes a lot of grinding. I feel like that's the I don't know if it's a problem, but like that's what I've noticed going from like the simple Nintendo like side scrolling Mario stuff to like the big AAA games is just there's it's so much time to like fully get into the game.
00:15:02
Speaker
And like there's so much story to go through and like, it's great. It's like paced well, but I am so used to like pick up the thing, play it for 20 minutes. You beat four levels, you feel accomplished. And now it's like you play for 20 minutes and you're.
00:15:17
Speaker
three steps closer to the goal, but not quite exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I've complained about this a lot because, you know, now that I get older, now that I have kids, my gaming time is severely limited. So it's not like when I was in my 20s and I could sit there playing all night. So usually it's like maybe I'll have 30 minutes or an hour at the most to sit and play a game. And with how long the grinding takes and all that, I'm just kind of like,
00:15:43
Speaker
Yeah, and these days I will start gravitating towards either something familiar or something that's a lot simpler. So I definitely get that sometimes. Which is why I do appreciate when they do have like cheat codes or stuff like that. I'm like, OK, no, I could just, you know, use the cheat code. I could have max level and just have fun for like 20, 30 minutes. You just skip forward and have a good time. Yeah, yeah.
Fresh Impressions of Incredibles 2
00:16:10
Speaker
But anyway, today we're talking about the Incredibles 2. Now, a funny scheduling thing. We had arranged for someone to come on to discuss the Incredibles, but because of scheduling issues and all that, we're actually not recording that episode until like next month or something like that. So we're gonna have to wait for us to talk about Incredibles 1. Instead, we'll be talking about just Incredibles 2 today. So let's kind of talk a little bit about our history with the Incredibles.
00:16:38
Speaker
Uh, when did you discover these movies? I mean, incredible specifically, I think it was, it was when it first came out. Like I was nine years old. My sister saw it in the theaters, but she went with a friend. I didn't see it. And like my parents had no interest in it. So I think we first watched it in school or like just rented it on a random DVD. And it's, I mean, spoilers for your next episode in a couple months, but like it's the incredible, it's fantastic.
00:17:08
Speaker
And it's always like stuck in the back of my mind is like, not quite the gold standard for animated movies, but it's, it's, I mean, Western CGI, specifically Pixar animation, but like it's up there. It's a really well done story and everyone always wanted that sequel. And I remember when this was initially announced, it was like shot at the top of everyone's like, this is going, this has to be the best thing ever.
00:17:37
Speaker
Yeah, see me, I came to the Incredibles really late. I mean, it came out in 2004. So I was in university when that first one came out. And you know, at that point I had no interest in Western animated movies. I felt like, you know, I had fond memories of Toy Story and all that. So I knew that Pixar could make good stuff. But I never saw any, I missed like that whole Pixar boat that happened in like the early 2000s when they were like at like the top of their game.
00:18:06
Speaker
Um, so I never saw a lot of those movies that everybody talks about like Wally and so on and so forth. And even me being a superhero fan, I just kind of like, you know, I kind of slept on the Incredibles and I had heard about it nonstop for like 10 years. Everybody talking about how great the movie is. Um, how it's like the best Fantastic Four movie. That's not a Fantastic Four movie. And that was like the joke years of like, oh, rank all the Fantastic Four movies. Incredibles was always number one.
00:18:34
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I'd heard all this stuff about it. And it wasn't until like, you know, 10 or 12 years later, it was a while after that. I'm not sure if I'm pretty sure it was before Incredibles 2 came out. And then I finally saw it. And I'm like, Oh, and you know, you know how it is when you've heard this built up for years, and you finally see it, and you're just like, that's it.
00:18:57
Speaker
Um, that was not, that was not the case with the Incredibles. Like this is one of the few exceptions where it's been built up so much by so many people. And I go and I sit and I watch it and I'm like, it's not going to be as good as everybody says. And I'm expecting to be disappointed and it finishes. And I'm just like, Oh my God, that was freaking good. The first one, it really hits as like,
Exploring Family Roles in Incredibles 2
00:19:22
Speaker
And like there's the whole, you know, stigma with animation and how people think it's only for children. But like as a family oriented movie, like it goes to some slightly darker places and like it hits is just a quality family drama with superhero and fun little elements.
00:19:39
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it had a lot of really interesting ideas in it. It obviously looked incredible. The characters were great, everything about it. And it even works, and it works on two levels. At one, it is just a classic, feels like a classic superhero story that you get in the Bronze Age comics. But in addition to that, it is also kind of like a satire of superheroes as well. It's got that aspect of it too. So it works on both those levels.
00:20:10
Speaker
Yeah, and it really and it does the family of superhero things really well because like there being other media properties that try to do that and they always kind of go off of the Incredibles thing of like, okay, let's look at what is the dad's like archetype in most things. He has to be the strong one. The mom has to take all the kids everywhere. So she has to be flexible. The teenager wants to be invisible. The kid has all the energy and like
00:20:38
Speaker
Other things have tried that and it just it doesn't hit as right as this because because of how well written and interesting the characters in the world are. Mm hmm. Yeah. At least in the first Incredibles. Exactly. Yeah. And so what about Incredibles, too? Did you I mean, since you were a fan of the first one, was this one that you saw like right out the gate when it came out? Yeah. So I think it's because like when I was a kid and like Toy Story came out the year I was born,
00:21:08
Speaker
I've always felt like kind of a connection to Pixar. So I've, I always try to see their stuff like as soon as it opens in the theaters. And like, I'm always checking out and being like, what's coming next? Do I agree or disagree with some of their choices? So yeah, this one, I think I saw it twice in the opening weekend because the first time was just a bunch of coworkers were like, Oh, let's go see it. Like it's out. That's cool. And then, uh, my girlfriend at the time,
00:21:38
Speaker
It was my birthday, so we were just out doing stuff, and she was like, you already saw Incredibles 2, and I was like, yeah, but if you want to see it, like, I'll see you the second time, I don't care. And it's, yeah. It was exciting to finally catch it, and then, I don't know, upon rewatches, I have thoughts about it.
00:22:00
Speaker
Okay. All right. We can talk about that because I had no experience in this movie. My first time watching it was last night in preparation for this episode. It's one of those movies that when I signed up for Disney+, I added it to my list. It's always been on the list there, but it's just one of those things that I just never got around to watching.
00:22:24
Speaker
So I, and it's been a while, also it's been a while since I've seen the first Incredibles. So I don't have it very fresh in my mind. It's been like at least, at least a few years since I saw that first Incredibles movie. So, so I don't, most of my memories of that first one had kind of faded. So I don't have as much of a comparison to it, but I really dug it. I thought this was a very strong sequel. I thought it had some really interesting ideas.
00:22:51
Speaker
it played with, and especially me now, being a father, having two toddlers, I could so relate to what Bob goes through when he's trying to take care of the... In fact, the funny thing, when Jack Jack keeps waking up every few minutes or something like that,
00:23:08
Speaker
That has happened to me with my son so much. In fact, just like the other night, that was my son. He would just like wake up nonstop and he would just have like all this energy and just like two o'clock, two, three o'clock in the morning, he's up and he wants to run around. And I'm just lying there on the couch trying to get him to fall asleep. And I'm falling asleep as he's still running around playing. So I completely sympathize with Bob in that scene.
00:23:36
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's completely understandable. I still like this movie. I think it's solid, but I think having the Incredibles, the first one as such a comparison point, and this, I think it does have a lot of interesting ideas, but then it kind of doesn't go as far as I would want it to with them and just like has ideas that are out on the table and you go, okay, what's going to happen next?
Expectations & Reception of Incredibles 2
00:24:03
Speaker
And then it's like, oh, you know, they saved the day, whatever.
00:24:06
Speaker
moving on. Yeah, I can see that, especially if, you know, if you watch The Incredibles at, you know, and if it had such an impact on you back then, I mean, because this is this is a long gap between movies, like Incredibles came out 2004. This came out in 2018, right? It's over, it's over 10 years after 14 years. Yeah. So like, if you
00:24:28
Speaker
If you had that attention to the Incredibles and you've been waiting for that sequel for all those years, you know, over a decade, and then you see this and that's a lot to, that's a lot of expectation built up. Yeah. And like, it's not like it's bad, but I feel like whenever it comes up just in conversation, I go like, Oh yeah, Incredibles two, it's whatever. And then like every watched it for this, I was like, Oh no, it's still good. But it just.
00:24:55
Speaker
doesn't rank up and also with the production of it after the director Brad Bird had the insane run that he had of like The Incredibles, Ratatouille, Mission Impossible, Ghost Protocol, and then Tomorrowland, which has its problems, but I enjoyed, he would always say like, I will not make Incredibles 2 until I come up with the perfect story for it. Like it has to be
00:25:21
Speaker
It doesn't like, I don't want it to be like the same thing as the first one. It needs to be like the perfect evolution. It can't just be a slap dash sequel. And then Marlin bombed at the box office and he coincidentally announced like, I think I have the perfect story. And then you watch it and you're like, Oh, mr. Mom is the perfect story. That's what you were hyping us up for 10 plus years. Like, okay, I guess.
00:25:49
Speaker
I mean, I can, I can see him thinking that, especially again, coming from that perspective of, of having a brother, because the first one dealt so much with like, you know, I hate my job and you know, it's like, I wish I was young again. So it's, you know, it's
00:26:05
Speaker
very much like, you know, standard midlife crisis stuff. And this deals with another aspect of it, where it's just like, you know, having to take on different roles in the family. And so I could relate a lot to it on that level. And I'm not sure what Brad Bird's background is. I'm not sure if he's if he's got a family or if any of that played into him. Yes, because because, you know, and I'm not sure when he
00:26:30
Speaker
had that family too, because that also might have affected why he felt like this was the story. Kind of like Kevin Smith, how he only made Clerks II after he had these experiences, and he felt like he was in the right place to make Clerks II, and the same thing with Clerks III. They were very personal stories based on his own life and his own experiences. I'm not sure if it was the same thing for Brad Bird, but I could definitely see that and see that kind of thinking going into this.
Missed Potential in Incredibles 2
00:27:00
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, yeah, it's, I, I feel like I'm coming off as super negative about it when like, I still enjoy it. And I think his personal experiences do play into it a lot. Like it does, it doesn't feel as personal as the original, but there's still, there's still an element of that there instead of if someone else had taken over and just
00:27:27
Speaker
made them go on another island adventure like they there is something and he does have something to say about uh our ironically our dependence on superheroes and the superhero cinematic universes which were huge at the time yeah that's a good point i hadn't really considered that aspect of it but um
00:27:49
Speaker
But you're right, and I'm looking at the Wikipedia, and he said that one of the challenges was how to deal with the fact that, you know, the market has flooded with superhero movies now. And he said that he wanted to avoid tropes related to the superhero genre. I mean, I get what he's saying there, but I'm not so sure if he really succeeded in avoiding tropes, because the whole idea of superheroes being mind controlled by a super villain, I'm like, that's like, you know, 50% of Chris Claremont's X-Men ideas.
00:28:19
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's a lot of okay. We just had our big crossover issue How do we get people back in now? Hmm? They're suddenly evil somehow and yeah and it introduces a bunch of a couple new superheroes in that group that are all somewhat interesting like the portal one void is really like
00:28:43
Speaker
Every time she popped up, I was like, I want to see what they do with her. She see she has a neat power set and like one that really would be cool to see with animation. And the few times she does stuff, it's neat. But then it like it has to focus on the family, which is, of course, but that's one of the disappointments of like you had this really neat idea and then you just walked away from it.
00:29:05
Speaker
Another thing too is I'm kind of questioning the main plot here because the whole spoilers for a movie that's several years old now, but one of the things that I noticed about it is I'm watching it. And again, granted, I've only seen it one time, so maybe this makes more sense on repeat viewings.
00:29:28
Speaker
The whole thrust of the movie is, so you've got this brother and sister team of billionaires, right? You've got Winston Dever and his sister, Evelyn. And it's kind of set up, especially because they got Bob Odenkirk playing it, so coming right off of Better Call Saul and Breaking Bad. So he kind of comes off as a bit smarmy in his voice presentation to begin with. So you are thinking right from the start, like, oh,
00:29:55
Speaker
you know, it's the evil billionaire trophies and pretend to be, you know, the hero's friend, but then there's going to be some sort of twist or something like that is is what I was thinking throughout most of this movie. And and in a way they do and they they invert that a little bit because instead it's Evelyn who who's the villain and she's using the she's, you know, been she's the mysterious screen slaver villain and she's been using this technology to brainwash people.
00:30:23
Speaker
And so they both have different interpretations of their father's death. Their father died in a burglary. For Winston, he says the problem with their father's death was that the superheroes were outlawed. So he couldn't call for help when he tried to. Whereas Evelyn's like, no, the problem is that the public's relied on superheroes too much. If he had not tried to contact them, they would never have
00:30:51
Speaker
if they just stayed in the room, they'd gone to the panic room, then they would have been fine. Yeah. And so she, so Winston wants to use this, this summit to like, you know, bring new appeal to superheroes and get them legalized again, where an evidence plan is to sabotage that.
00:31:11
Speaker
And one of the things I was thinking of as I'm watching this movie, this seems like an incredibly complex plot for Evelyn to have when her brother is kind of a doofus and she could probably just kill him and make it look like an accident instead or just brainwash him instead. Yeah, I think I think the big thing is she doesn't want to be the public face of the company, and that would make her that essentially. She wants to work in the shadows. The thing with Evelyn Devers whole like
00:31:40
Speaker
arc, which, you know, it's neat that she's the twist villain, even though Evelyn Devor, evil endeavors, like it's kind of winking at you the whole time, uh, is they set up so like at the end, they try to be like, Oh, she and Elastigirl were like becoming best friends and like, they really agreed on a lot of stuff. And it's there a little bit, but it's really kind of done so fast that
00:32:09
Speaker
at the end, Evelyn's like, ah, you know what stinks? I really like to. It's like, oh, okay. I, I don't know if I could really tell that I was too busy focusing on Jack Jack nonsense.
00:32:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's another problem is I think they're trying to they're too many balls. They're trying to juggle in this movie.
Voice Cast Performance in Incredibles 2
00:32:25
Speaker
So you've got the whole thing with Evelyn and her relationship with Helen and that you've got Bob being the stay at home dad, you've got Jack Jack's new powers developing violets whole thing with with this boy, she's got a crush on brainwashed. Yeah.
00:32:42
Speaker
And, um, yeah, I could, yeah, that definitely gets lost. I, in fact, until you mentioned it, it never even occurred to me that was a, uh, that never, it never stuck in my memory. That was a big plot point. The fact that they were friends. Yeah. It like, they were trying to do it and there are moments where it's, you know, getting there a little bit, but it never really sticks. And you're like, Oh, okay. Like.
00:33:09
Speaker
She's the twist villain, but is it really a twist when she doesn't seem like she's into all this? Mm-hmm, yeah. So yeah, the- So it's a really good performance. Still, like, Carrie Coon does a great job voicing her. The entire voice cast in this is fantastic. Yeah.
00:33:29
Speaker
Catherine Keener not Carrie. Good. Catherine Keener. I was gonna say I thought could've sworn it was Catherine Keener Yeah, yeah, and that's another thing I do want to talk about too is the voice actors They got for these are great. Like obviously the ones from the first movie where we got Craig T Nelson back Holly Hunter Sarah Val We got Huckleberry Milner instead for Dash and Samuel L. Jackson, of course is back Brad Bird himself again back his Edna which I still think it's hilarious where to look that up and I saw that he that he was the one who voiced Edna
00:33:59
Speaker
But and you can tell you also seven fun. Yeah. Yeah. But then we get, you know, again, as mentioned, Bob Odenkirk and Catherine Keener, both of them are great. Jonathan Banks is a small part as the is the FBI agent at the beginning of the government age. I'm not sure if it's specifically FBI, but he had some government agency. He
00:34:21
Speaker
he's replacing an actor who passed away who was in a lot of Pixar stuff. So it did take seconds get used to but he's still he still does a great job. Yeah, it says he replaced Bud Lucky from the first film died in 2018. So yeah, I, I didn't even remember that the character from Rick Decker from the first movie. So that did not strike stick out in my head at all.
00:34:47
Speaker
But yeah, great spit part he has in there coming as this FBI guy. Yep. And then he goes, I'm out. And you're like, oh, OK, by guy from the first movie who like also wasn't in the first movie too much. Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, all the cast is great in here. Catherine Keener does do a good job as Evelyn, but it just I.
00:35:15
Speaker
I had trouble really connecting with her motivation and all that. When we were dealing with the family stuff, I was super clued into this movie. I was paying attention. I was right in there with all of it. I love the stuff with Elastigirl going on her own solo hero career thing too.
00:35:34
Speaker
And another thing they do really well in both these movies, they find very creative uses for their powers. Like the idea of the Elasti bike and how it separates while she's stuck on both sides. Like I'm not sure how practical that is, but it looks awesome. Like, yeah. And I can't believe that I've never seen anything else do that in anything of just like, okay, we have a stretchy character and every superhero needs to have some kind of car for toy sales.
00:36:03
Speaker
So let's make it split apart and like she's the rubber band holding it together and she does some neat flips with it and like that chase sequence is great.
00:36:11
Speaker
It is, yeah. In fact, it's funny, my my daughter almost never pays attention to movies. She's only she's only two and a half. So she's she's not quite yet at the age where she can really get into a movie and the story and all that. She's more clued into to music or to the visuals. So like, you know, when she loves Moana, she loves and mostly for the songs more than anything else. And because it's very colorful. But
00:36:34
Speaker
And most movies when I watch, if she's in the room, she just kind of ignores them unless there's a song or something like that or something flashy. But when it came to that chase sequence, she was right there on the couch with me and she was like laughing and jumping all around the place. She was getting so into it. That's awesome. I mean, part of its visuals, part of it is Michael Giacchino score because he is I mean, he's one of the masters. He's so good. Yeah.
00:37:02
Speaker
Um, what are some other things that, that stuck out to you that, uh, so you mentioned the Evelyn thing. What are some other things that kind of takes it down a step for you and in comparison to the first one? Oh, it takes it down to step. Um, or the opposite stuff that you really liked about it. Either one. It just, it just popped up because of the conversation about, uh, last girl going out on her own. I do really enjoy how more realistic than other
00:37:30
Speaker
family-oriented movies the Bob and Helen relationship is because Bob doesn't like hide his professional jealousy from her in a way like he it's when it's her going out on her own like she recognizes that he's upset about that and he's able to express it while still being proud of her and I just I like that dynamic instead of him just like simmering and
00:37:57
Speaker
being quiet about like, oh no, I'm so happy for you and only you. He's realistic about it and I think that's great and their relationship is, it is as realistic as it was in the first one, there's a little more goofiness with the Mr. Mom stuff, but it still really works. Yeah, I think the maturity that the relationships have in both these movies,
00:38:26
Speaker
It's totally understandable that he was this big superhero. So he'd naturally expect, and his life is so committed to being a superhero, right? That's something that's so much a part of who he is and what he wants out of life is to be a superhero again.
00:38:41
Speaker
So when, and Helen, she, you know, back, that was one of the big things in the first movie, she seemed fine with taking a step away from the superhero stuff. And even the beginning of this movie, when they're talking about it, and she brings, they had that whole discussion about the fact that superheroes are outlawed. We can't, we should not be doing this.
Marital Dynamics in Incredibles 2
00:39:00
Speaker
And then for them to get this offer, and they say, no, no, no, we don't want Mr. Incredible, we want Elastigirl to be the one who goes out there.
00:39:12
Speaker
It's totally understandable that he would have some professional jealousy about that, and he'd have some complicated feelings. You can be jealous of the fact that your partner is having this success. It's something that you really want to do, while also being proud of them. Those are two thoughts that are possible to have at the same time. And they really show it off well. And it is also interesting, again, it's an idea that they don't
00:39:39
Speaker
dig into too much, but they don't really dig into it in the first one to the point that I forgot that it was a plot point about the superheroes being illegal. And how if you want to go by like character alignment charts, Helen is lawful good about it. Like superheroes are illegal. We can't do anything about it. And Bob is more neutral, chaotic, good about like, but if it's a law that's preventing people from being people, then
00:40:09
Speaker
It shouldn't be a law, which is an interesting thing to look at and think about, but for a 100-minute Disney Pixar movie might not be the thing to dive into. Well, I want to talk about that aspect of it too, because there's some interesting parallels with that and stuff that's happening right now in America, at least. But in addition to that, there's the whole
00:40:34
Speaker
And just going back to the maturity of the relationship, I do love it when these movies or these stories, because it's on the comic books and TV as well, when they treat the relationship with some degree of maturity. One of the things that annoyed the crap out of me about Spider-Man 3 was how they portrayed Mary Jane in that movie and how
00:40:57
Speaker
you know, she's having all this trouble with her career and she's trying to, and she's struggling with it. And Peter is trying to help her and he's trying to explain to her, he's like, look, I've been there. I've had the public hate me. I've had people write bad articles about me. And he's like, and then eventually things turned around and he's trying to express to her that the same thing will happen to her. And she's, and she's getting pissed off at him about that. And it just got, it got very old, very fast and just having that kind of attitude. And then I compare it to something like,
00:41:28
Speaker
And I've used this example, I know I've used this example like a hundred times on this show, but I'm going to keep using it because it is one of the textbook examples I go to now. And that is Superman and Lois. First season of Superman and Lois. She asked Clark to go cover this town hall meeting because she's got to do some other investigative reporting stuff. So he goes, he's going to go there and he says, yeah, I'll go there. I'll take notes for you and I'll record it and I'll get everything for you.
00:41:56
Speaker
He has an emergency as Superman. He has to go save some people, stop some burgers. I can't remember exactly what it was, but whatever it was, he goes, does a Superman thing, and he misses the town hall. Later, when he talks to Lois about it, he tells her, he's like, I am so sorry. I was going to go, and then this thing happened. I had to go there, and I couldn't get back in time. She's like,
00:42:17
Speaker
I know you're Superman. I know that you were saving lives. Logically, I understand that you did what you had to do, but I'm still mad about it. Illogically, I know that's illogical, but it still stings and I just got to deal with it. And I love that because it shows how you can handle this in a mature way as opposed to what would be the stereotypical way would be Lois getting pissed off at Clark, which is like, well, you made a promise and you broke it. It's like, yeah, but he was saving lives, right? So instead of doing it that way where
00:42:49
Speaker
Yeah, you didn't storm off and go make apple pies with Perry White or whatever Mary Jane does with Harry. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I was thinking about that scene as I'm watching this movie because, you know,
00:43:04
Speaker
Obviously Bob is upset and that makes total sense and but still he is mature enough and he loves his wife And so he knows that he's gonna take a step back He's gonna try to let her have her moment in the Sun even though it stings and I thought that was great I thought that was very well handled is also like I was gonna say especially with the between the Superman and Lois and spider-man 3 examples of like oh that's a
00:43:32
Speaker
Part of that is definitely an evolution in screenwriting and writing characters to be able to explain and process their mental health more, and just what's been more of a trend. But that's also what was happening with the first Incredibles. That's how their relationship has been, and this didn't miss a beat with the family dynamics. Even if they changed up the family dynamics, not the family dynamics, but the focus of the family a little bit,
00:43:59
Speaker
Like, I feel like there was a lot more Violet in Incredibles 2 than the first one. I think the first one tried to feature a little more Dash like becoming braver and understanding how his powers were working. But I love what they were doing with Violet in this. I thought her, her plot line, even though it is kind of less consequential than the rest of the movie, I thought it was just a fun little comedic side thing. And like, yeah, it's a teen, it's a family of superheroes. So like.
00:44:28
Speaker
This is a traditional family thing, it just happens to involve invisibility and mind erasing.
00:44:35
Speaker
Yeah. And that too, like the dealing with the family dynamics stuff. And again, this is something I have dealt with myself. Like there are times, you know, my wife is still on maternity leave. So usually she'll be home taking care of the kids and then, and I'll be at work. And then when I come home, like sometimes she's burnt out and like, you know, she just needs to, she just needs a break. So it's like, okay, I'm going to take the kids. We're going to put them in the car and we're just, and I'm just going to drive them somewhere so that you can have just like, you know, sometimes yourself
Parenting Challenges in Incredibles 2
00:45:03
Speaker
or it's like, you know what?
00:45:04
Speaker
go out, go take a drive yourself, go do whatever you want to do, and then I'll just stay home with the kids.
00:45:11
Speaker
And it's one of the things that I think this movie does very well is it does a really good job of showing just how difficult it is being a parent and being a parent solo, too. Like it's it's a lot of work. It's and, you know, I could also relate to not so much to him helping out Dash with his homework, but I could relate to the problems with, you know, how they the change the way that they they teach math. And I remember, you know, when Common Core got introduced.
00:45:39
Speaker
Yeah, I went through I went through those exact conversations with my dad when I was a kid of him trying to teach me math and Like us both not understanding the new way they were trying to teach it which is you know historically why I've never been good at math not to blame him but Yeah, I remember when they were complaining about some some people I know who had
00:46:04
Speaker
Well, I wasn't a parent yet, but some people I know who had kids who were going through this, and I remember them complaining about Common Core, and I was reading up a little bit on it. I'm like, okay, so it's different from the way that we were taught, but I don't know if that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, because I think, actually, if I had learned math the way they're teaching it now, I might have been able to figure it out better, because I always sucked at math myself. The way they taught it to me in school did not help me at all.
00:46:30
Speaker
But I can totally understand why, you know, you've got this thing, you've got this way to do things and it's been drilled into your head. And then when your kid comes along, he's like, I need your help with this. And he's just like, and he's like, they, I don't know what they're doing here. This is completely different from memorizing multiplication tables or whatever it was. Yeah. And how frustrating it must be to be like, I have to teach my kid, but I have to learn at the same time as them.
00:46:57
Speaker
or only be a few steps ahead, which has got to be rough. I mean, I don't have kids yet, so I can't fully relate to it, but it's an understandable universal thing almost. I can relate to it to a small extent, not from a kid perspective, but just from a teaching perspective, because I teach English here at the university level in Japan, and I got asked to teach a class in dental English.
00:47:26
Speaker
I don't know half the vocabulary they use in the dentist office. So I was basically staying one chapter ahead of the students when I was teaching that class. And I'm doing a medical English class too. And again, there's a lot of vocabulary in there that I did not know when I started teaching the class. So that first semester, it was just me staying one step ahead of the kids. And I tell my students, I'm like, look, I might be pronouncing some of these words wrong because we don't use these in regular everyday English.
00:47:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's we were not always talking about dentistry and doctor's appointments. Yeah, yeah. And and that can be that can be frustrating, right, when you're trying to just know enough to stay a step ahead. And also for for someone like, you know, like Bob, who is this classic hero archetype to have to say that I don't know how to do something is probably a really tough thing for him to do as well as probably is something I think that's also playing a role in that.
00:48:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What about any other things that kind of jumped out at you with this film? I think it's it's neat that they like set the finale on a cruise ship. I feel like you don't see that too often in superhero movies like that's just oh, OK, well, we're doing something a little bit different. It was a little disappointing again after watching the original for so long.
00:48:55
Speaker
to jump directly into the Underminer fight and then have it kind of just end with him getting away. And it's like, oh, we waited that long to see the family beat up this guy and he just is fine. Like he gets the money and leaves. Like that little disappointing, but it's, I think a big part of the first, especially with the first time I saw this movie in theaters was
00:49:21
Speaker
I spent so much of the movie thinking about the little short film that was before it, instead of really engaging and being engrossed by this movie. Because how Pixar always has their little short films beforehand, the one that this was really good, it was just strange. What was that short film? No, no, I didn't even know about that. Yeah, it's called Bow and not to give a lot of it away, but it's
00:49:51
Speaker
Uh, I believe she's a Chinese American woman and she, uh, is making bow buns for her husband. And she's sad about something you don't know. And then one of the little bow dumplings comes to life and she raises it as a son. And things continue to happen that like there, one thing happens in it that shocked our entire audience. Both times I saw it and.
00:50:19
Speaker
That was just stuck in my head for this entire movie. So every time something cool was happening and like something interesting would happen, I'd be like, yeah, but the lady's son was a dumpling. How about that? Yeah, I've never seen that. I'll have to I'll have to check that out. It is great. I think it's on Disney Plus as well. What did you think about Jack Jack and his, you know, burgeoning powers in this?
00:50:49
Speaker
It was, it was cute. It was fun. It was a little, you know, we could get little Tom and Jerry antics between him and the raccoon every so often to like cool down with the plot a little bit, make sure the kids in the audience are entertained. But like he's fun. I think it was interesting how they tried to pinpoint like a certain amount of powers and like a certain order they would go in.
00:51:16
Speaker
But then they would just throw new stuff in every so often. It's like, okay, so he can just do whatever. And like, I remember the original where, you know, at the end syndrome takes him up in the air and he like turns metal, turns on fire, becomes the demon baby. And they had a little short after that came out of like him discovering his powers and torturing the babysitter with them by accident. And this was essentially more of that little short film.
00:51:47
Speaker
But it was, uh, it was like, Oh, okay. The baby has a lot of potential. That's why he has all the different powers. And in this they're like, Oh yeah, no babies usually only have one or two powers. He just has a bunch. He's just special. And I'm like, I feel like we should think more about that. I don't know. Like a baby with unlimited powers is always kind of nerve wracking and like that could play into the nerve wracking of a parent being like, what if I screw up my kid?
00:52:16
Speaker
It's I don't know I feel like it was a fun thing to do, but it could have been more Yeah, yeah to that point too like that idea about you know You know kids having too much power before they're ready I mean that is a real concern that parents have like and you know powers not necessarily powered per se but just the idea of them trying to do things before they're ready to do stuff like you know my son just started walking a few months ago and I
00:52:46
Speaker
It's nerve wracking when they start walking because now they can go places that previously were very easy to keep them out
Personal Parenting Experiences
00:52:52
Speaker
of. My daughter is, she loves climbing on stuff. She has scaled every single baby-proofing gate we have bought. And now my son's going to be getting there too. And that is nerve wracking because everyone talks about how when they're newborns, they need a lot of attention.
00:53:09
Speaker
when they're new newborns, let me tell you, it's easy. Like you just you, you feed them when they feed them, you change them, you put them back down, and then you're good for like, the next three hours, then three hours later, you do the same thing again. And it's just like, it's just a very set routine you go through. But when they're toddlers,
00:53:25
Speaker
you got to watch them like a hawk because next thing you know if you take your eyes off them for a few minutes next thing you know you hear someone screaming and you go in and you know he's got his hand stuck in a box or something like that or they're beating each other up or whatever the case is yeah no that's that's definitely a big part of it
Humor in Jack-Jack's Powers
00:53:45
Speaker
And yeah, so I, that, that was such a great thing that they threw in there. And also too, I got to chuckle out of the cookies, trigger the demon baby thing, because that is so true. Because when my son wants a cookie, if he doesn't get a cookie, he is going to scream his fucking head off until you give him that damn cookie. Yeah, no, there's, there, you can definitely feel like the elements of relatability that they put into, especially Jack jacks.
00:54:12
Speaker
story character arc, I guess storyline, whatever you want to call it. But yeah, I'm totally with you, though. I think that the the main plot line, I think I think one of the the big issues with this and why these and I don't know how Brad Bird was going to do this, but he said he had a bunch of other plot lines that he had to drop from the film. I don't know where he would have put those in because he barely had enough space to cover the the main plot lines that he was trying to do in what we got.
00:54:43
Speaker
Yeah, from a lot of behind the scenes stuff that I've heard about Brad Bird as a director, he seems like he's very intense and has a lot of big ideas and is like, I am going to put everything I can until this thing is ready to burst and is perfect. And I can really see, especially with the amount of time between the two Incredibles movies, him really
00:55:11
Speaker
just putting a bunch of stuff on paper and being like, I've got this, I've got this, I've got this, like this is going to be great. I do remember hearing somewhere, and I don't know where it, like if it was confirmed anywhere or not, that they got far, kind of far in like some kind of robot story with this and then had to scrap it for something. I don't know where did that go? Where I heard that though.
00:55:43
Speaker
Um, yeah, it might have been because of the, because of the long delay between movies and, and then, you know, cause I think the, the fact that the MCU blew up also gave him some other stuff to, to comment on too, that he wanted to do. Um, I did think it was, uh, I did think it was interesting that they,
00:56:08
Speaker
They didn't utilize that big gap in time between releases. This basically picks up right after where the first one left off. And he said that he didn't want to use an ellipsis or anything like that to come up with new characters or to deal with Violet and Dash being adults, and he wanted to keep Jack-Jack as a baby and all that.
00:56:31
Speaker
And I thought that was it was it was not a bad choice, right? I'm not going to say it's a bad choice. But what do you think? Do you think this works better picking up right after the first one? Or would you think do you think it might have been more interesting to utilize that big gap in time? Didn't have to be the full 14 years, but to like pick up like 10 years or even five years after where the first one left off. It's tough, you know, because you
00:56:59
Speaker
want, like you want the teenage girl dynamic to still be there with Violet and the way the family unit is set up is great. But at the same time, you want to see like, how does Jack Jack evolve? Like how if he is, I think they call him a polymorph in the movie. If he does have all of these abilities,
00:57:23
Speaker
Does that like affect him as a child, as a teenager, going through all of this, knowing that he's got more powers and like could be the most powerful one in the family? It, I don't know. I think I'm okay with it being immediately after like maybe a year or two time jump would have been good, but the biggest issue with it being so soon after the original is
00:57:50
Speaker
After the first one, you had that moment, at least in the audience, of, we know Jack has powers, that's hilarious, let's move on. But then you have to go through it again in this one as the rest of the characters discover it.
00:58:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Because it had been a while since I saw the first one. So when Bob finds out that Jack Jack has powers, I was just like, wait, didn't we already know this? Because the movie does play it like it's a big revelation. And for Bob, it is. But for us, I remember that my memory was like, wait, I thought he had powers in the first one, too. So yeah, that was one thing that I'm just like, it feels like we're kind of retreading the same ground here a little bit.
00:58:33
Speaker
And another thing that's interesting is that Brad Bird said he was inspired for Jack Jack being a Polymorph because of the idea about how infants can understand many different languages, right? Like when a child is born, they can replicate
00:58:51
Speaker
all the sounds and all the languages. And then as they key in on one language from their parents and people around them, the other sounds that they're able to produce, they just kind of fall into the background because the brain doesn't need to keep those connections alive. So it just focuses on strengthening the connections that need to be there. And I see this
00:59:13
Speaker
with my daughter. She's talking. She's starting to talk now. She's in a bilingual household, so she can understand both English and Japanese. She can replicate sounds in both languages. For kids who grew up bilingual, you can hear it when they speak.
00:59:33
Speaker
That's why my father was British, because I grew up in America, I went to American schools, I didn't pick up his British accent. If I had only been around him the whole time, then I would have. So that's another idea too. I was wondering about the polymorph aspect.
00:59:50
Speaker
Do these powers remain with him? Does he kind of key in on like one set of powers? That was one of the questions that I was interesting and seen explore a little bit, which I think a time jump both could have helped, or maybe that's something that'd be better saved for like a potential Incredibles three. Yeah. And I, I can, I, I feel like an Incredibles three could happen. It really depends on the rest of.
01:00:17
Speaker
Pixar's originals, if they keep doing not as well as they hoped at the box office, then like there's a good chance out of desperation, similar to when this was announced. Cause it was after a, not exactly a fallow period, but like people weren't as into like brave and some of the originals that were being pumped out. It was like a lot of sequels in a row cause they were like, we just need guaranteed money makers. I could see an Incredibles three happening like
01:00:46
Speaker
within the next couple of years, but we'll see. And also, Brad Bird's off doing some other animated project that he's been trying to make since the late 90s at Apple, I think. So we'll see what happens.
01:01:00
Speaker
Yeah, speaking about Incredibles 3, Bird said that Pixar's decision to swap the release date for Toy Story 4 and Incredibles 2 cost him a full year of production. Again, he had all these other plot lines that he wanted to use, and he said that those could be used in a third film. Samuel L. Jackson said that he's definitely down for coming back.
01:01:28
Speaker
Because Samuel L. Jackson sounds like he's having so much fun in these. Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. And, you know, especially after, you know, Secret Invasion, he'd probably want to do something that's a bit more fun. Oh, God. Something that's actually a little bit engaging.
01:01:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can talk about that another time. But also, there's this article I have, and this is from the direct, and this is from May of this year, and it says that Incredibles 3 is more likely than ever before. I don't know this...
01:02:05
Speaker
This mostly seems like, it just seems like an article just rehashing the previous stuff and just speculation on it. I think it'd be great to see. And if, you know, the cast all wants to return, and this could be a way to, you know, utilize some time and like age up the characters a little bit and, you know, see how things play out when Dash goes from being like a super energetic little kid to like, you know,
01:02:32
Speaker
uh, you know, see him as a teenager, not one who wants to disappear like Violet does, but maybe he wants the intention of being, uh, being like the fastest guy in school or something like that. And yeah, they, they do hint at that in the original when he's doing, when he's doing the race at the end, they're all cheering for him to go fast, but not too fast. Like he has a showoffee personality. How is that going to affect their secret identities in, when he's in high school, which.
01:03:01
Speaker
Is it is interesting that like these movies have them wear the masks and everything but they don't really play on the secret identity discovery thing Especially this one. It's kind of just It's just like yeah, they they're superheroes. Well also too like, you know Violet and Dash they don't have like any superhero names either as far as I can see Mm-hmm. Yeah, they're just the incredible kids like yeah
01:03:30
Speaker
So yeah, I think that that would be something else that would be interesting to see too, like as, because if you age them up, like, you know, Violet going off to college or, you know, graduating college, like, because she didn't seem as keen on the hero thing. She's someone who likes to disappear in the background. Does she still want to be a superhero, right? Does she want to do something else with her life?
Speculation on Incredibles 3
01:03:52
Speaker
uh that's something else you could play with too um yeah there's a lot of possible there's a lot of story opportunities if you age them up and see where that explores because that's another thing with a lot of superhero stuff is you don't often see those stories because you have to keep them within that like you know 20 to 40 age range so that they can you know they just have yeast at continuity
01:04:16
Speaker
right yeah yeah yeah so you know the whole idea that stanley talked about of you had to have the only thing you do is you do the illusion of change that eventually you got if it goes too far you got to do um recons or reboots or have a crisis event or whatever it might be um and with something like this you can play around with time especially because you're not tied to the character's
01:04:39
Speaker
looking a certain way or you're not being forced to age them up too fast. Since it's all animation, you could play with them however you want. So I think there's some different avenues you can explore with that that would be interesting to see. All right, yeah. And in elderly Edna mode would be very funny. Yes, absolutely. I definitely want to see that.
01:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, I it's one of those things that like I don't need a third one. I'm like perfectly happy with just having these two. But if they make one, I'll be excited for it. I'll check it out. Honestly, what I really want to see, though, and this is not at all likely now, but for the longest time, I wanted to see Brad Bird direct a Superman movie. Now we're getting James Gunn doing it. So but Brad Bird would have been amazing directing a Superman movie.
01:05:29
Speaker
He really would. There's so many things with Brad Bird where he got close to doing them, and he said no. He was apparently, when Force Awakens was first announced, he was apparently the first to call from Lucasfilm. They called Brad Bird and was like, do you want to do Star Wars Episode VII? And he said, absolutely not, which breaks my heart, because that would have... I think about that every so often, that would have been incredible. Not to pardon the pun, but...
01:05:58
Speaker
No, yeah, that I had never heard about that, but that he then, you know, I like Force Awakens, you know, well enough. But and I actually I did the Last Jedi a lot and Last Skywalker is the one that completely. Yeah. But, you know, but Brad Bird, if he had directed The Force Awakens, I think that would have been because he he's someone who can take these ideas and present them like he did with Ghost Protocol, right? He took this franchise that was kind of
01:06:29
Speaker
a little bit tired at that point, right? I mean, Mission Impossible 3 was good, but it didn't really light the world on fire. And, you know, the second one was just, you know, God awful. So he came in with Ghost Protocol and he just completely reinvented that franchise and resurrected it, essentially. Yeah, he and Chris McQuarrie were there like, this is a Tom Cruise franchise and we need to show him being
01:06:54
Speaker
not like a normal guy that was the big problem with Mission Impossible 3 was so much of him was trying to be a normal guy right yeah yeah and it worked out brilliantly and and that redefined the franchise going forward now and it's why it's been continuing to be so successful so like
01:07:11
Speaker
I mean, I think he should have I'm, I'm very, I'm very excited for Superman legacy. I'm very glad that James Gunn is doing it, but that feels like a missed opportunity for me.
Ideal Projects for Brad Bird
01:07:21
Speaker
Um, but honestly, like, I don't know what's going on with Marvel's Fantastic Four movie, but why have they not called up Brad Bird is what I want to know. Cause he, like you said, everybody, the joke is that the Incredibles is the best Fantastic Four movie ever made. And they're not wrong. So why don't you give that guy a call?
01:07:40
Speaker
It's it's it might be one of those things where maybe they thought about it But or they maybe they talked to him and he flat out when I already did that like I already have done the family dynamic With superheroes twice now and like I would rather do it with characters I love then be put into this machine where whatever I do It'll still have executive producer Kevin Feige oversight fingerprints on it
01:08:05
Speaker
And that's a good point too. Like it could very much very well be that he's like, I did the family stuff. If I want to do more family stuff, I can do it with my characters and I can have more freedom doing what I want. So that's, that's definitely understandable too. Um, but man, that would be the perfect choice. And yeah, you can do the family stuff with your own characters if you want, but you could also do it with a big rock monster. Yeah.
01:08:33
Speaker
Uh, okay. Any other things you want to mention about Incredibles 2? I don't know if I have anything else specific. Uh, I think the idea of the screen slaver is interesting and tries to like do commentary on phones and like these darn kids got to get off their iPads, but it again kind of falls apart when it focuses more on Evelyn. But it's like, you know, it was interesting. They definitely tried something.
01:09:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. There's some little attempts here at that social commentary stuff that they're good ideas. Like you said, the screen slaver idea and the idea that people are so fixed on their phones, the idea that we're too reliant on superheroes, that being like a commentary on Hollywood and the over-reliance on superhero movies and franchises in general.
01:09:28
Speaker
And then also, like you mentioned before, the idea of what good is a law if it stops people from being themselves and that being very relevant now with the anti-trans stuff that's going on in place like Florida and Texas. Yeah, anti-trans stuff going on in Florida, that's not good. Yeah, exactly.
01:09:49
Speaker
And I think part of it is when this movie would have been in production, that stuff was still very nascent, right? It wasn't as, you know, prominent as it is now. But that's an idea that really kind of struck me when I'm watching this movie. It's like that that's something worth exploring a little bit more. But it just it's just dropped after that one conversation. And they never kind of pick up that ball again. So that was a little bit disappointing. Yeah. Yeah, it's.
01:10:16
Speaker
they like screen slaver has his whole monologue of like you don't play games you watch game shows you don't talk to your families you watch talk shows and like it's so specifically tv oriented because this incredible world is like pseudo 50s 60s era stuff but like it's i it's yeah i do think it's interesting how the screen slaver's whole thing is
01:10:45
Speaker
You don't talk to your family.
01:10:48
Speaker
shows, you don't play games, you watch game shows and it's so TV focused because the Incredibles world is like art deco 60s ish. And yeah, you're right. That's another interesting idea. And it's just it's another one of those ideas. There's definitely something there about escapism in general and how it's with our amount of content constantly being pushed out nowadays, superhero or not, that like there is a bit of a dependence on it.
01:11:18
Speaker
But we don't have time to get into all that because we have to watch the baby fighter raccoon Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah See, I think that's a good way to sum it up. Like it's it's not it's it's a good movie I enjoyed it a lot, but you know on reflection Yeah, very solid movie. It's a very solid sequel and on reflection. There are these things that you know, just don't quite work as well as I think we would have liked them to work but Still a solid movie overall
01:11:49
Speaker
Yeah, good, but a little frustrating.
Conclusion & Podcast Promotion
01:11:53
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good that's a good note to end on. So Connor, why don't you tell people where they can find your stuff?
01:12:00
Speaker
Absolutely. So you can listen to No Highway Option. We release new episodes every Tuesday and follow us anywhere at No Highway Pod. If you want some nonsensical Vin Diesel comparison fun movies that we've done recently that kind of tie into The Incredibles. Our first episode ever was about Zoom, Tim Allen's movie where he teaches superhero children.
01:12:28
Speaker
That's not very good. Um, we talk about a movie where a baby has unlimited power with son of the mask recently. Uh, I'm trying to think we haven't really covered that many superhero movies because we have the guests assign us movies so we don't automatically pick our favorites. So it's been an interesting, it's been an interesting ride. Uh, if you want to check us out wherever you get podcasts. Yeah, we, that's kind of the approach I try to take here too. So that, and it's.
01:12:55
Speaker
It's kind of funny, the choices you'll get from people. You'll get people requesting the big ones, but also people requesting some very off-the-wall choices. So it's definitely been... It's a cool experience when you let the guests kind of pick the movies themselves. Yeah, within the past couple of months, we've gone from The Matrix and Cloud Atlas to the Winnie the Pooh slasher movie. How was that, by the way?
01:13:24
Speaker
We still have to watch it, but I'm absolutely dreading it. Okay. Oh, so you haven't done it yet. Okay. Um, yeah, uh, I'm, I, I follow public domain stuff a lot and there's been a lot of gnashing of teeth about that in the public domain communities. All the Winnie the Pooh stuff now is what if it was messed up and twisted and it's like, what if you just made it fun and cute like it's supposed to be? It's really frustrating.
01:13:53
Speaker
Um, but anyway, well, thanks so much for coming on. And, uh, thanks so much for having me. Yeah. And everybody make sure to check out, uh, Connor show. And as for us, we are superhero cinephiles.com is the website super cinema pod on Instagram and blue sky technically still on Twitter as well. Although I'm not over there that much since Elon Musk is a, is a fascist psychopath. Um, I'm going to be more on blue sky these days. So if you want to get in touch with me.
01:14:22
Speaker
Blue Sky or Instagram are probably the best places or through the website and through the contact form and all that. Also, you can make sure to sign up for the Patreon page for as little as a dollar a month. You get these episodes in advance, plus you also get access to Superhero Cinephile's book club where about once a month we talk about
01:14:42
Speaker
comic books and graphic novels. And I have a comic book out as well. So Paragons of Earth, it's at the time of this recording, it's still in the crowdfunding stage. But hopefully by the time you guys listen to this, the crowdfunding will have been completed, it will have been made available, would have met its goals, but you can still purchase it. It's still going to be available at crowdfunder.com slash Paragons comic that's crowdfunder without any
01:15:10
Speaker
That link will be in the show notes. Links to Connor's show will also be in the show notes. Thanks so much for listening, and we will talk to you next time.
01:15:21
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. Superhero Cinephiles is produced by me, Percival Constantine, with the support of Zencaster. The show is created by myself and the late, great Derek Ferguson, our host, Emeritus. Visit us on the web at SuperheroCinephiles.com to listen to past episodes or find out how you can be a guest yourself. Support the show by visiting our advertiser links or click the Buy Me a Coffee link on the website to make a one-time donation.
01:15:44
Speaker
You can also support us by visiting crowdfunder.com slash ParagonsComic. That's crowdfunder with no e dot com slash ParagonsComic and help support my superhero comic book, Paragons of Earth. We are SuperCinemapod on both Instagram and BlueSky, so please be sure to follow us. We'd also appreciate if you could rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts and share us with your friends.