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Letting Kids Be Bored (Without Feeling Like a Bad Parent) with Lizzie Assa
523 Plays1 month ago
Episode 82. What do you do when your child says, “I’m bored” — and why does that moment feel so hard?
In this episode of Play on Words, Beth Gaskill sits down with Lizzie Assa (@theworkspaceforchildren), early childhood educator, parenting strategist, and founder of The Workspace for Children, to talk about her upcoming book But I’m Bored! https://amzn.to/3NaKnHl
Together, they explore why boredom isn’t something parents need to fix, how independent play builds confidence and creativity, and what it actually looks like to step back without guilt. This conversation is practical, research-aligned, and grounded in real life — not perfection or Pinterest setups.
If you’ve ever felt pressure to constantly entertain your child, this episode offers permission (and tools) to do things differently.
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In This Episode, You’ll Learn:
• Why “I’m bored” is an opportunity, not a problem
• What independent play really means (and what it doesn’t)
• How to support play without over-directing or hovering
• Why stepping back helps kids — and parents — thrive
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About the Host
Miss Beth is a reading specialist, early childhood educator, and the founder of Big City Readers. She supports parents in raising confident, capable kids through research-backed literacy and development strategies.
Follow Miss Beth:
• Instagram: @bigcityreaders
• Website: bigcityreaders.com
• Podcast: Play on Words from Big City Readers
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Transcript
Redefining Play
00:00:00
Speaker
People think, okay, either they need to be playing a sport or like they're gonna be wanting to watch TV. Like there's a lot of nuance in playing. Like it could be making dinner and that was so fun for them. That was play for them.
00:00:14
Speaker
And I did make them clean up. Like so I think people are like afraid of the mess. They think play of all ages needs to look a certain way. Play onwards. Play
Podcast Introduction
00:00:24
Speaker
onwards. This is Play On Words from Big City Readers.
00:00:27
Speaker
yeah this ba Welcome back to the Play On Words podcast. We are talking with author of But I'm Bored coming out in January, probably at the time of this podcast ah release, Lizzie Asa. Welcome back to the podcast, Lizzie.
00:00:44
Speaker
Thank you. I love being here. I love your podcast. Me too. In your episodes before, if you've not listened to them, you have to go listen. and we talk about preschool drop off and how it's okay to cry. Like I have so teachers that continue to say like they take notes as if it's like a master class. So glad.
00:01:04
Speaker
yeah so glad Yeah. um Okay.
Meet Lizzie Asa
00:01:07
Speaker
So you are known as you're a parenting strategist, an early childhood educator, the founder of the Workspace for Children, and now an author. um I'm going to say bestselling, even though it hasn't come out yet, but I know it's going to bestselling. I've been reading this so much. I'm underlining it so much. um And can I just tell you, I have never felt cooler than getting someone's uncorrected proof, an advanced book. Like, I'm like, wow, I'm like in the club. You are in the club.
00:01:35
Speaker
Will you tell everybody, if they don't know you, a little bit about you? um And then we're going to talk about play and independence and all the things. Yeah. So I'm Lizzie Asa. I am a mom of three big kids now. And like you said, I'm the founder of The Workspace for Children. And now I'm an author. um But, you know, my mission is really just to help parents understand I think that they know how important play is, but I want to help parents understand how simple it can be to just kind of plug it in, in the little micro moments in your life and how much impact that can
Embracing 'Boredom'
00:02:10
Speaker
have. You do not need to reinvent yourself as a parent. You do not need to like change how you parent. This is really just about making like small shifts, small tweaks that are going to have really big impact, not only on your child, but on your entire family unit
00:02:26
Speaker
I love that. So ah how did you come up with the title, But I'm Bored? You know, I think But I'm Bored is something that can feel like so anxiety inducing in parents, right? It makes us feel like, oh my God, my kid is bored. I'm not doing a good job. I'm supposed to be like entertaining them and scheduling them and doing all those things. And I really want parents to know that like,
00:02:48
Speaker
If your child comes to and says, but I'm bored, like I want to give you a hug and pat you on the back because you have reserved time in their day and in their life for them to rest
Supporting Child's Boredom
00:02:59
Speaker
and play. So bravo to you if your kid has ever come to you and complained and whined that they were bored.
00:03:05
Speaker
And also my kids still complain that they are bored. And now I just like look at them and like point to the book and laugh. But also like, you know, but I'm bored is not a negative thing. It's a good thing.
00:03:17
Speaker
And I can say that I've actually seen this happen with your kids. You've been a call before and your youngest came in at like three times and you're like, okay, you can sit next to me and be bored, but I'm on this call. It was like a day off of school in real time.
00:03:32
Speaker
Okay, so this is probably something I should say for the end of the podcast. know you're supposed to do like a slow build, right? Like you're supposed to do like the little questions. But I already have this question that came from one of my friends. Okay, so we had this event this weekend. We did like a Santa story time. You know the age of, well, this child actually never believed in Santa. She is eight. She was just there because her mom is friends with me, you know, wanted to hang out.
00:03:58
Speaker
She was like having a bit of a meltdown about being bored. she was just like oh like so upset and I said to my friend I was like oh actually like Lizzie would say this is a good parenting move I'm so glad she's saying that I'm bored and my friend was like yeah but it's really me that is the problem like I don't have the frustration tolerance to hear it and to like totally rewindiness so what do you have to say about that I mean, one, I also like want to validate that mom, because even though I am someone who is like so steeped in the research of like border breaths and play, there are times also where like I want to actually lose my mind when my kids whine and say that they're bored. So like it's a laugh. Right.
Boredom as a Skill Developer
00:04:40
Speaker
But I just when we can as a parent really reverse mindset.
00:04:46
Speaker
wiring, which is like, if your kid is bored, that's a bad thing. you know, reverse that in your mind of like, if my kid is bored, that is a good thing. Now, there's also a difference between productive boredom and destructive boredom, right? Because there are a lot of kids who are, you're like, if you allow them to get bored, they're going to destroy the house or they're going to break things or they're going to do all these things, right? And that is so valid, right? So it's not just about being like, oh, cool, you're bored. Good like good for you. Yay. um there There are other steps that go into it. Right. And so I like to say, to you know, let's take maybe like a six year old who's bored or or the eight year old. Right. I might say as a parent in my mind, like, OK, my kid is bored. Makes sense. She's at an event that like isn't designed for her and it's not about her and she doesn't really want to be here. So like, yes, makes sense that she's bored. Like no one's doing anything wrong.
00:05:40
Speaker
And I would also say, like, it have I connected with her today? Right. Like, have we had even just like three minutes where like I wasn't on my phone or we weren't rushing, you know, where I could just hear from her? Like, what do you wish you were doing instead?
00:05:53
Speaker
Like, oh, you're right. It's so annoying that you have to go to this thing. But also, like, it's important to me and we're going go. So like you don't have to like it, but you do have to come and you do, you know, and and I do expect that like you're going to behave in a, you know, appropriate, respectful way um to our friend Beth. Right. But like I get it. And like if you want to wind the entire way there in the car, like get after it. Like, you're allowed, you know, I'm not trying to change your mind about the thing. I am the grown up and I'm saying like, you have to go to the
Parenting Strategies for Play
00:06:23
Speaker
thing. Right. But you're allowed to be mad about it. That alone kind of really helps kids. Right. And then I'm going to also say to her, like, you know, beforehand, like you might be really bored of this thing. You really don't want to go to it. Is there something you want to bring that's going to help?
00:06:38
Speaker
Right. So do you want to bring that book that you are really into? Or maybe you have a kid who loves, I don't know, like drawing or whatever. You can say like, you know what? Do you want to use like my really good markers that I keep on my desk and pick one or two, put them in my bag with like a couple pieces of paper? And so like when you're really born at the thing, like if you want to discreetly go and like, you know, get some drawing stuff like that's going to be OK with me.
00:07:01
Speaker
Right. So you're going to support their boredom. You're not going to rescue them from it. Right. Like it's still going to be she's eight. Right. So it's like still going to be her job to decide like when and where and what she's going to draw. But you as the parent now have like supported like, yeah, this is hard for you. You don't like really want to go Yeah.
00:07:19
Speaker
There might not be anything for you to do. This event isn't about eight year olds. So like, how can I support you in supporting yourself? Yeah. So, okay. So you would say like, if they are like, you would say, okay, you can wind the whole way there and the whole way home, but then when we're in the event, you can't. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I would say like, this is really important him. Like you're eight and this isn't like a three-year-old, you know? So I think, you know, your child best, right? Where they are at developmentally. But like, I would say it's like a pretty fair thing to say, like, this is, we're going to this, right? Like Beth is, and miss Beth is important to us and, you know,
00:07:51
Speaker
Like you're not going to ruin the event for anyone else. And you have to go. Sometimes we do stuff we don't want to do. But how can I support you through it? Yeah. This like letting kids be bored and teaching them to be bored is like feel like we've heard so much lately.
Skills Built Through Play
00:08:04
Speaker
Like this generation, they they don't know how to lose. They don't know how to be alone. They don't. I feel like it all. Yeah. I mean, i you know, I was recently having a conversation with a therapist who works with college students.
00:08:16
Speaker
kids, right? And, you know, I have a freshman in college, so I was particularly like like, you know, like, like, I want to hear this. And she was saying how a lot of the of her clients who are really smart, you know, these kids who grew up in these, you know, really, you know, enrichment club sports, like parents who, you know, really made sure they did all their homework and, you know, were never bored, actually.
00:08:38
Speaker
you know, are now in college and they're really struggling because they're not sure how to fill their downtime. They're calling their parents over every single little decision. It feels like life and death. They're not sure how to get started without someone telling them how to start. And immediately I thought to myself, like, these aren't really college problems. These are play problems. And I'm wondering what that looked like for them when they were four and five. Like, did they have time?
00:09:01
Speaker
to sit on the floor and sort of like let their building crash and have a grown up who could say like, oh, yeah, you're building crash like that really stinks. Like, I wonder what you are going to do next. Not, you know, what?
00:09:13
Speaker
yeah and And so and that's not to say like, oh, if you have a kid who's 10 and you haven't done that, like they're doomed. They're not. There are lots of ways you can plug in this kind of thinking for older kids.
00:09:24
Speaker
But I really do think like those executive function skills, that confidence, that self-starting, right? That is all built on the playroom floor. I agree.
Independence in Structured Environments
00:09:34
Speaker
And okay, so I have um in our family, our 12-year-old was said like, I don't know what to do today. You know, her dad was like, well, you're not playing video games all day. She had no sports that weekend. And she was like, what do I do? And he was like, come up with some options. And she was like,
00:09:52
Speaker
Right. Right.
00:10:05
Speaker
name some things you want to do i don't know that i could come up with things that i want to do i'm like what do i even like to do right i feel like But that's what it feels like for a lot of kids, right? Because think about it. Like they're in school all day. People are telling them where to sit, when to eat, when to go the bathroom, like how to raise your hand and speak, right? Like, and then they're coming home from school and they're being rushed to like, you know, this tutor and this sport all the way until bedtime, right? And so they don't have time to build that muscle of like, what do I do when no one's telling me what to do?
00:10:42
Speaker
Right. And I know, you know, like this can sound so overwhelming for
Building Play Confidence
00:10:46
Speaker
parents. And and i really want to peel back a couple layers to just say, like, there are so many very simple things you can start with. And also, like, if your kid doesn't know what to do, you know, when all a sudden those things are all ripped out from under them, like, of course, they don't know what to do. it if they're whining and they're giving like having a hard time and giving you a hard time, at like that's really normal. Right. Because like, imagine if someone suddenly like pushed you into a space where you'd never been and you'd, you know, and expected you to master it, like you wouldn't be able to, right?
00:11:20
Speaker
And so we want to like pull that back, right? And think about like, Kids need to build play confidence before we're just going to ask them to go off and play. Right. Like that is a huge ask. Like you are a reading teacher. You're not giving like kids who are just learning to read a Harry Potter book. Like you're not doing that. You're reading with them.
00:11:43
Speaker
You're sending out books that are interesting to them. They are looking at the pictures on their own terms, not because someone told them that it was it was time to read. And it is time to sit down at the table for this amount of time. That's not what's happening. Right. And it's the same with play.
00:11:58
Speaker
I was just thinking that it's like almost similar to, well, everything ties together, right? So it's just like if you think about babies that are learning to talk. I teach a baby language class. And one of the tips I give to parents is like, we're so inclined to fix the problem. Like they cry, we're like, what, you want milk? You want this? You want this? But like, what if you played dumb for a minute and you're like, what do you need? Then that gives them the space. right.
00:12:24
Speaker
say the word. And so we're doing the same thing. And I think it's a little bit easier to see because typically developing babies will develop their language skills. So then, you know, parents get, yeah okay, I did that and look at what happened. But I think this is a little bit more nuanced for people and they can't really like, they they need to, see they're like, well, I'm doing this and I'm not seeing exact like changes.
00:12:46
Speaker
My kid still has a meltdown. So, and also, you know, society says to us as parents, like good parents, Play with their kids. Good parents entertain their kids. Good parents, you know, keep their kids, give them all the opportunities, right? And so, you know, it's very counterintuitive, right, to then say like, well, wait, I'm not. Like me giving them the opportunity is actually saying no to that extra class. Me so giving them every opportunity is me saying like, I'm going to reserve time in our schedule for play the same way I am going to sign them up for ballet lessons.
00:13:20
Speaker
So ah how do you coach parents through the guilt or the fear that they have about stepping back? Yeah, I mean, it's very real and I get it, you know, and even as someone who, you know, has studied play forever, there are many times as my kids have grown up that I thought, oh, my God, am I not doing enough?
00:13:38
Speaker
Should I like I am not doing this how the other parents are doing it? Right. And that feels scary. But I really want to help parents understand that like everything we're trying to give our kids by signing them up for the extra enrichment for, you know, making sure they're on that club team or whatever it is, right? We're trying to give them a leg up.
00:13:59
Speaker
But if you actually go back and look into the research, giving them a leg up really is giving them time to create their own world and make sense of it, right? So when you can really look at their play as something where they are building skills, and listen, a lot of parents are gonna be like, but my kid doesn't build with blocks when they play. You know, my kid is like banging trains together and bouncing a ball against the wall. That is play. Like that is just as important as,
00:14:27
Speaker
you know, sitting with magnetic tiles, right? They're getting the same thing out of it because they have time to like explore what's going on in their own mind and make sense of it. Yeah. Do you have any thoughts on, you know, people are like, these are the best toys that will help your child's development. Like I often like, yeah, you know what the best toys are? A spoon, a bowl, ah a laundry basket, whatever is in front of you.
00:14:50
Speaker
Yes.
Choosing Toys Wisely
00:14:51
Speaker
And you know what? Here's the thing. If you really want to know what's quote unquote the best for your child's development, I want you to take five minutes today and observe your child when they are playing, right?
00:15:03
Speaker
What are they playing with? Where are they? What are they doing? What are they working out? Those are your cues for what are the best toys for your kids. Don't reinvent the wheel. Use go all in on those. And that counts for, you know, I was recently just telling someone a story like,
00:15:17
Speaker
When my youngest was little, she loved Paw Patrol, like love, love, love Paw Patrol. And, you know, did I go out and buy like the Pup Tower and all of the things? No. But you know what I did do? I went and I got all the little Paw Patrol figurines, the mini ones, right? Because she can plug those into like her black building.
00:15:36
Speaker
The bathtub, the water table, the dirt outside. And guess what? She can bring that to the restaurant or the doctor appointment or any of those things. So not only does it give her time and space to play and practice playing everywhere she is, it gave me back time and space as a parent to not be needing to entertain her all the time, right? So you want to think about like, what is your child's interest? It doesn't have to be like Legos or something that you think is like, quote, unquote, like a developmental toy. It's what your child is interested in.
00:16:06
Speaker
Yeah, okay. So I did something. i want your opinion on these two things I've been doing. One, I noticed i noticed that that when we have the seventh graders over, you know, I love watching your middle school stuff because I'm like, yeah, same. And you did something similar to this. You did like a ramen setup. But I know that they love ramen and they love pretending they have a YouTube channel. And they love making a mess, right? So i we had a day off of school. And so I was like, okay, let's have all the friends over. going to take you to an Asian market. And you guys, I want you to look up the recipe you want to make. And um we can go to the store and buy all the stuff. And then um you can, you know, make your ramen. And they spent...
00:16:47
Speaker
hours looking up different recipes they they rewrote it in different ways they got colored pens they wrote it on a dry erase board they hung it up we went to the store they were like comparing everything the ramen tasted terrible and but it was like the most fun they they played in the kitchen for four or five hours and i think people and not only did they play in the kitchen. They played beforehand. They played in the
Autonomy and Confidence Through Play
00:17:10
Speaker
store. They played. They created a world that they could be in charge of in a larger world where they never get to be in charge. Right. And so that's the same thing for like a two year old or a four year old. Right. Like,
00:17:23
Speaker
Play gives them that container to have autonomy and to have a world where they are the main character. They get to do decide what happens when and where, right? They get to make a mistake and there are no consequences. They get to, you know, do all these things, whereas in the real world, that's not how it is.
00:17:43
Speaker
So when you create and carve out time and space for your kids to play, you are giving them back so much control. So like not only are you building their executive function skills and all of these wonderful things, you are changing their whole outlook, their confidence, their behavior. It changes your relationship. You learn so much about who they are.
00:18:01
Speaker
Oh, my gosh. I learned so much about all the friends. And, like, they were telling all the parents, like, wow, Beth is so cool. She let us do this. But I think that's the thing is that people think, okay, either they need to be
Guiding Productive Play
00:18:14
Speaker
playing a sport or, like, they're going to be wanting to watch TV. Like, there's a lot of nuance in playing. Like, it could be making dinner. And that was so fun for them. That was play for them.
00:18:26
Speaker
And I did make them clean up. Like, so I think people are like, yeah. afraid of the mess. they They think play of all ages needs to look a certain way. Like, oh, play tennis, go play in the pool, go play pretend. But but it could look like a lot of a lot. of Yes.
00:18:40
Speaker
Yes. And there's a chapter in the book um called like decoding your child's play. And it really helps you understand sort of like how to observe your child to understand, you know, what they're telling you through their play and also like what they need, right, to be someone who plays productively. And I'm not talking about like projects or crafts or things you need to go out and buy. I'm talking about like ways you can set them up within your own home um using things you already have. Right. But it just really says to your kid, like, I see you. I value your opinion. i understand that, like, you are your own person with interests and questions and you deserve like a container to figure those out within. Right. And kids respond so deeply to that.
00:19:25
Speaker
Yeah.
Benefits for Parents
00:19:26
Speaker
Would you say that I know we've talked about adult play before. Would you say that like part of this would be like parent burnout is also connected to them not playing?
00:19:37
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I mean, the thing is, is like when you have kids who can play independently and love to play independently, you have parents who now have time back for themselves to fill their own bucket and play in whatever way they need and want to. Right. And then they can show up as such a better version of themselves. No, was just having this conversation with someone about how, you know, but my kid always wants me to play with them. They always want me to play with them. And that makes sense. Right. Because like if they've always been played with and entertained their whole life, I'm like, of course, that's what they're going to expect.
00:20:10
Speaker
And it's OK to change your role in their play. Right. Like there's so much I'm going to tell you there's so much conversation online about like you should never play with your kid.
00:20:21
Speaker
Like you should always play with your kid, you know, and like, honestly, you should parent however you want to parent for your unique child. Right. But one thing I will tell you, if you are trying to develop play skills and independent play skills, I want you to change your role in the play. Right. And so maybe, you know, your child comes to you and says, like, you be the puppy.
00:20:42
Speaker
You know, and a parent who's going to entertain and stay in that entertaining role is going to start barking and being funny and like, you know, changing the plot and like being the best puppy in the world. Right.
00:20:54
Speaker
A parent who wants their kids to build independent play skills is going to put their kid back in the driver's seat and say like, OK, like what should the puppy do in the game? What does the puppy sound like? Where do you want the puppy to go?
00:21:07
Speaker
know You are saying to them, like, you are the director and the producer and I am an extra in the cast. You are in charge of your of of your play and I am here to support you. And it's like a little bit boring.
00:21:21
Speaker
And of course, if you're someone who's always been like an amazing puppy, they're going to get annoyed at you, you know, and it's OK to say to them, like, I know it's different. I am the puppy in charge. And this time I'm saying you're in charge. You know, you you're going to be honest with them and say, like, it's actually really important for you to be in charge in your own game because you have so many important ideas.
00:21:42
Speaker
Wow. I feel like people are gonna be like, this is too much work. It sounds like a lot of work, but think about how much it's front loading though. Right.
Quality Over Quantity in Play
00:21:50
Speaker
Because like, imagine like if you have a kid who always wants you to play with them, right. Which is probably most kids. Right. And you sit there and then you're like laying on their bedroom floor, like playing Barbie, but you're like scrolling your phone, like with the other hand, your kid knows that. Right. So they're never going to get enough. It's like, there's a hole in the bucket.
00:22:09
Speaker
It's like you're filling into their bucket it's dripping right out, right? Because they don't have your undivided attention. So I would always rather you play with them for five solid minutes, like all than hour half in, right?
00:22:24
Speaker
So like it is so much more work to have to play half in all the time, right? Instead of letting them do the work.
00:22:35
Speaker
Yes, my sister has four kids and she says this. Well, she doesn't say it like that, but like whenever her kids say, mom, come look at this, she goes immediately because she's like, it's going to be worse if I'm like one second, one second, one second, like finishing this. So she always like... If she can, like she works from home, like sometimes it's difficult, but she like goes. And so they don't do it all the time because they know like it's they're not asking for that because they're not getting her half attention where they're just like, look at me, look at me, look at me. They know when she comes and like looks at what they've built. Like she's really looking.
00:23:08
Speaker
Yeah. So they don't call all the time. And because yeah, so that's good. Yeah. And I think also, too, like another way to shift that from your kid wanting you all the time is to front load again in a way of, you know, in the book, we call it closing the loop. But if you, you know, say your child has been building and they're not calling you or they're drawing or whatever they're doing, like coming over and saying like, hey, I don't want to interrupt you. Is it OK if I take a picture of your work so that like we could talk about it later, you know?
00:23:39
Speaker
Or, you know, and then later bringing that up, right? Like at dinner time, like if you have a kid who loves that kind of attention, great. Or just saying like to your partner, hey, hon, look at this, you know, drawing that, you know, Sammy made earlier. Like, it I just thought it was so interesting. I wanted to show you. And now your kid gets to choose, right? Do they want to say, yeah, and guess what it's about and blah, blah, blah. Right.
00:24:01
Speaker
Or they get to just bask in the idea that like, wow, like my grownup was really paying attention to what's important to me, right? Yeah, you know, I want to talk about screen time.
Balancing Screen Time and Play
00:24:11
Speaker
And this might be our segue. But my nephew, I remember last year, i you know, when you're like watching a kid show, and you're just like on your phone, because you're like, I'm just sitting here with you. And he was six. And he I like laughed at something in the movie, like it didn't have my phone in there it was sitting on the couch behind him. He turned around, he's like,
00:24:29
Speaker
Aunt Beth, you're like a kid. and he like looked at me like he like he couldn't believe that I was watching the movie he was watching. And then he came and he sat next to me and was like laying on me. And it was like he felt so much connection. and I didn't think what he was watching was stupid. I cared about it because he cared about that. That's right.
00:24:49
Speaker
That's right. and and And that actually, you know, is the cue in to like how to support your kid and getting started with play, you know, by noticing what's important to them. Right. And then just calling that out, you know, and really letting them see that, like, they are the expert on that thing and bringing that into play.
00:25:08
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I said to a niece or nephew or someone in my family, they got Legos. And I was like, oh, can I do that with you? And they're like, sure. And I was like, I've just I've never done Legos before. And they were like, oh, yeah.
00:25:22
Speaker
And like the attitude, it was, I think, with an 11 year old. And it was like thought they thought that I was like trying to like be too involved and like act like a parent or an aunt. And then they were like, oh, I'm the expert. Yeah, let me show you.
00:25:34
Speaker
Yep. Yeah, because it went from, you know, you being in charge in their worlds where they're used to being in charge, like the one tiny place they get to be in charge. Right. So really shifting it to being like you're really the expert here.
00:25:47
Speaker
And I think kids like feel like the authenticity, like, yes you know, like they know when you're like being like, wow, tell me about this versus like, that is really interesting. I feel like I'm not a good artist, but maybe it's because I don't draw enough. Like maybe I need to get more colors that I like, like to draw with, you know, like showing. Yeah. Like being real. Like, you know,
00:26:08
Speaker
Yes. yeah Okay, so I like in the book that you're like, i am let's be clear, I am not anti-screen time, and my son watched plenty of Thomas the Tank Engine before his second birthday. That's right.
00:26:20
Speaker
feel like that, was speaking of real, is very helpful because I think a lot of people are like, oh, sure, you're the expert, Lizzie. Like, of course, you did everything perfectly. But OK, so so what are your thoughts on screen times? I think people hear like, oh get your kids to play more. And then they think that it just means get your kids on screens less.
00:26:38
Speaker
Right now. I mean, listen, I love screens also. I love them personally. Like I could scroll TikTok all afternoon. So like, i you know, I love a screen. My kids love screens. And I really believe like you can be a child who loves play and a kid who loves screens. Right. And it's just really going to be about intentionality from the grownups. Right. And so, you know, for me, i want play to be the default behavior.
00:27:06
Speaker
not screens. I want screens to be an intentional choice for enjoyment, but play to be the default behavior. And the way, you know, i work with my clients to set up that kind of environment, like that's a culture thing, right? In your family. And so for us, you know, we always kept, you know, iPads or tablets or whatever,
00:27:26
Speaker
um up and out of sight and out of hand, like that's a grown up choice, right? Because if it's just like out on the on the counter, like, of course, like why would I would pick it up? Like when my phone is there, like I'm opening it, I'm checking it, you know?
00:27:40
Speaker
And so then you're in a control battle, right? Whereas instead, if it's like up and away, but your kid knows that like every day at four o'clock or whatever, they get to watch their favorite show, like that's not a control issue anymore. Right.
Managing Screen Usage
00:27:54
Speaker
Right. Same thing with like remotes. I never left the remotes like out on the counter. i just always put them up and away. also like when my kids were watching TV and they had to stop, I used to take a post-it note and I would be like, can you draw a picture or like write down of the part you were at? Because like you really love the show. And I want to make sure that if tomorrow when it's your turn to watch TV, like we could start at that same part. Right. Again, it's just about being like respectful of what they are enjoying.
00:28:23
Speaker
Right? wound Yes. Oh my God, it works so well. Like it works so well because it says to kids like, oh, like my grownup gets that. Like, I really like this. Like, this is really important to me. And also then being like, as you're turning it off, tell me what was like happening in that show. Like I heard, you know, blah, blah bla happening. But like, I'm so confused. Like, can you explain it to me while while we're like transitioning to snack? Like, you're not just like, it's off.
00:28:50
Speaker
Now go play. You know, no one likes that. like No one feels good. Right. So the thing when you said like, what's in front of you, the remote's in front of you so you're going to do it. Your screen's in front of you. I have been experimenting, you know, how middle schoolers can be. And so in our house, you know, like there's like you can be like, how your day? And they're like it was a day. And so I decided to set up a puzzle in like one of the like first floor rooms so that instead I'm like, I don't ask about the day. I'm just I just happen to always be doing a puzzle when they get home. And i told my partner, I was like, this is my plan. And he was like, I mean, it was like week four and I am not finishing the thousand piece puzzle on purpose because I'm like, I know this is going to work. And then week four, there's friends over. it They all start doing the puzzle with me. They're chatting. They're hanging out. and The puzzle's right there. I didn't say come do the puzzle with me. In fact, two weeks before they were friends over and they were like, you know, her dad turned off the TV and was like, go do something else. And then he was like, you could do the puzzle with Beth. And they're like, ew, that is so boring. And then two weeks later, they're doing the puzzle with me and wait for it. It gets even better. We all finished the puzzle together, like until like 11 PM. She says, i feel so calm and relaxed. I've never done a puzzle before. This is so fun. And then it's the school store last week. Like you get to bring in money and buy things. She bought a puzzle for, for the house. And she goes, cause we finished that one. We need another one.
00:30:20
Speaker
And like, i was like, I told you, like, I was like, it was a slow game, but oh my gosh, she chose. Like, let's take that example because that's such a good middle school example. And like, you know, in the book, we call it play pockets, right?
Setting Up Play Environments
00:30:34
Speaker
But it's really just about taking things that your child might like and strewing them throughout your house, right? So like, if you're spending a lot of time in the kitchen, then like,
00:30:44
Speaker
Take your child, you know, say you have a kid who's really into dinosaurs, right? Grab a handful of dinosaur figurines, put them at the kitchen counter, like with a lump of Play-Doh. We're not saying it's dinosaur playtime, like come and sit at the chair and play with your dinosaurs because they're going to be like, ew, no, bye.
00:31:02
Speaker
You know, when they, you know, kids have a drive for autonomy. And so when it is their choice to come and maybe you put out like a snack next to it and also you, the grownup are there, you know, in the kitchen, you're not playing with them. You're not doing it for them. They get to decide if they're going to like eat the snack or do the thing. Right. But they probably are. um because Kids want to be where we are. Right. But they want to do it on their terms.
00:31:26
Speaker
And when you say to them, like, I see you, i know what your interests are, and I'm going to set you up for success with those things, the play will happen. This is exactly what I tell parents when they're like, so we have virtual classes and and one of them is about writing and drawing. And so they'll say like, oh, my kid won't do it. They're like a five-year-old and they're resisting. And I'm like, well, stop asking them to do it. Just set it up. Set it up on the iPad. Set up two spots. You do one and like just draw it with me and let them choose. And if they don't choose, that's fine too. Just do that one 15-minute lesson and then put it away and keep setting up the spot for them to choose to come to it because don't change the game. Right. So like kids thrive on mastery. So like, it doesn't mean you're putting out a new Play-Doh thing, thing, and you know, whatever, every day you're not doing that. Right. A, because you will be resentful and annoyed when your kid doesn't feel like doing it. And there will be days where your kid doesn't feel like doing it.
00:32:22
Speaker
And two, is that like, Kids are learning new skills all day long at school. So like it feels really good to be able to go deep with the material that you've already mastered. Right. We want to think again about play as the container for them to process their world so they don't need a new tool to be doing it.
00:32:41
Speaker
Right. So if they already are successful at building with magnetic tiles, that is their tool. Go all in. Get more of that tool. You don't have to up the ante. You don't have to like make the more challenging set. Nope, they're going to do that on their own when they're ready, right? Yeah. Yeah, that is, I think, hard for people to remember. like And I think the consistency of like,
00:33:07
Speaker
of doing it for many days in a row, you know, like not, it's not going happen instantly. Like, okay, so you, I know I love that you put out toys on your coffee table for no matter the age. And it's like, maybe the kids come over and they don't play with them the first day. Will you stop putting them out? No, it's like, let it keep being there. And then, and then you're going to slowly, maybe it'll work, but give it like a month.
00:33:31
Speaker
Yep. Yep. Yeah. Okay. want to ask you some rapid fire questions. What would you say to the person that is like, play doesn't matter? don't know. I don't know where to start.
Integrating Play into Lifestyle
00:33:44
Speaker
I would ask them like, are they okay? Who hurt you? Yes.
00:33:48
Speaker
what who hurt you yes Okay, what is the thing that you're most excited about for people that are going to read your book? and like I'm so excited about the part that like it's really easy to read. So like I really wrote it so that like you can be like, oh, like this is where we're at right now. OK, I'm like, I'm going to look for that chapter. I'm only reading like those five pages. Right. and And then later on another day, like when your kid's in a different stage, you can sort of find that area of the book. I wrote it so that busy parents can just access what they need when they need it and revisit it when they need it
00:34:26
Speaker
Okay, you said you wrote it for busy parents. Can you give us, this is a very specific question, name the person that this book is for. Like, give them like like a really, like even like literally give them a name, specific, who is this for?
00:34:40
Speaker
This book is for the parent who understands, you know, they know that play is important, but also like they're not like about to homeschool their kid. They're not saying like, ah we're not doing any activities. I'm going, this is the only thing we're doing. You know, this is for the in-between parent who wants to, you know, feel better about their child's play and development.
00:35:01
Speaker
Also, they i want them to still be able to parent the way they want to parent. This is not, I'm not trying to change how you parent. I'm trying to just help you make small shifts that will enhance them.
00:35:12
Speaker
What do you hope the parent that reads this book feels at the end? I want them to feel like so empowered to be like, oh, my God, i know my kids so well now. Like, I feel so much more confident about my relationship with my child.
00:35:27
Speaker
love that. And what's one thing that every parent can try today? Every parent can try today observing their kid for five minutes when they're lit up about something. Right. And take that as a clue and plug that in.
00:35:44
Speaker
Oh, I love it Wow. Okay. The book comes out January 13th? January 13th. 13th. fourteenth Oh my gosh. Where can we get it? You can get it anywhere books are sold. But if you want, yeah. And and anyone who pre-orders, I'm not sure when this is coming out, but if you pre-order before January 13th, you can also get six months to my paid sub staff.
00:36:05
Speaker
Are you kidding me? Yeah. like Thank you. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Lizzie, thank you so much for being here for your insight. As always, you are a national treasure. Thanks. I absolutely love you and I love your podcast and I'm so happy I got to come back.
00:36:21
Speaker
Me too. OK. And also, OK, so the book is called But I'm Bored. And where else can people find you? People can find me. I'm on Instagram and Substack at the Workspace for Children. And of course, always at my web website, workspaceforchildren.com.
00:36:36
Speaker
Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you.