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Big Feelings, Bigger Reactions: Parenting Kids with ADHD Without Losing Your Mind with Dr. Carrie Jackson Ep 79
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Episode 79 - ADHD and motivation—let's cut through the noise. This episode breaks down why so many people get motivation wrong when it comes to ADHD, and what actually works to move the needle. Dr. Carrie gets real about the myths we need to retire (like motivation being some tank you can empty) and what actually matters: understanding what drives each person and building an environment that doesn't work against them. Miss Beth chats with Dr. Carrie Jackson about ADHD motivation in kids (and adults!), executive function challenges, dopamine regulation, and neurodivergent strategies.
If you're tired of surface-level advice and want strategies that hold up over time, this one's for you.
For more info visit https://www.bigcityreaders.com/podcast
Find Dr. Carrie on Instagram @dr.carriejackson
Message me your questions on Instagram @bigcityreaders
Check out Big City Readers picks on Amazon
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:02
Speaker
This is Play On Words from Big City Readers. is this bath Welcome back to the Play On Words podcast. It's Miss Beth. And today I'm super excited because we are a welcoming back Dr. Carrie Jackson. You might remember her from our previous podcast episode, All About ADHD. She is a psychologist in California, has a private practice, has and shares amazing tips online. um You can follow her at Dr. Keri Jackson and a fellow ADHD-er.
00:00:34
Speaker
Keri, welcome to the pod. Thank you for having me. Again, we had so much fun the last time we did our podcast. And so I am super excited to be here. got a lot into our own diagnoses as well too. So who knows? I
Personal Diagnosis Story
00:00:47
Speaker
know. Which, okay, to summarize for anyone that didn't listen to that episode, you were diagnosed after you finished your PhD.
00:00:56
Speaker
Yeah. After my PhD, I was late 20s. I don't remember what exactly how old. But very, I mean, it's very much so the story with a lot of women, I would say, like having a later diagnosis. But I really attribute that to my mom being a preschool teacher. She thought that ADHD just meant you were hyper and didn't see it.
00:01:18
Speaker
I think a lot of people still think that ADHD just means like hyper. i have a story about that in a minute. Let me, let me tell everybody what we're talking about today. And then I'll tell you that story.
Emotional Aspects of ADHD
00:01:28
Speaker
Okay, so today we're talking about the big feelings around ADHD because I think a lot of people think, like you just said, it just looks like hyper or it looks like kids that can't sit still when they're five years old.
00:01:42
Speaker
But ADHD comes with a lot of meltdowns, a lot of motivational battles. And we want to talk about how parents can stay calm, connected, grounded, whether or not you yourself are ADHD and parenting a child with ADHD or not. and Yeah, how to parent a child with ADHD. Okay, the story I was going to tell you is I was sitting at a dinner the other day with my partner and this guy was like 60 years old sitting next to me and he was like, I can't i can't like ever keep a thought straight, but he was like this big CEO and he was like, I lose my train of thought all the time, but like I have a million ideas a minute and
00:02:17
Speaker
Anyway, I forgot where we were going, but I'm excited.
Misunderstandings about ADHD
00:02:20
Speaker
And I was like, and i was like do you have ADHD? I know. and he was like, I don't know why. Do you? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, I can't believe that you just said that.
00:02:31
Speaker
And I was like, no, we like have more information on it. It's not embarrassing now. i like it like It's kind of a sign of intelligence. Yeah. And also for entrepreneurs, that is like the norm. It is very, very common. It's so funny as you're telling that story. I just think about a lot of the parents that I work with when they are maybe like first getting their child evaluated and they will be talking about like things that are hard for them. They'll be like, I'm such a procrastinator and all of these things. And I'm just waiting sometimes for them to drop how they have ADHD, but then they don't. And I'm like, oh, okay. Yep. Now I see like, so maybe the parent hasn't been diagnosed, but I think a lot of that is going back to how we didn't know back then what ADHD was actually like, but now we know much more.
00:03:14
Speaker
Yeah. Can you talk about that? I think that at least I've noticed, okay, I think that this is like the whole thing, right? In whatever your field is. But I often think like people know more about ADHD now, but I think a lot of people still do think that it just looks like you can't sit still and you can't listen and you're bad in school. But like, like you and I both were excellent students, well-behaved, had friends, and still both have ADHD. So maybe like talk about that, like maybe what it does look like or why people think that it just means like you're crazy and can't sit still.
00:03:49
Speaker
Yeah. I think that a lot of it goes back to how ADHD and eighty d used to be separate diagnoses. And so like ADD is what a lot of people think about right now as it's ADHD and inattentive presentation. But it used to be separate diagnoses. And so a lot of people now, i think they still have this common misconception that ADHD is only for hyperactivity and impulsivity.
00:04:13
Speaker
But also like a lot of the disruptive things that you were talking about. So like kids not being able to sit in their seats and really being like noticed during school also that there are these challenges.
00:04:25
Speaker
That's how some of the diagnostic criteria was initially developed in some of the questionnaires to assess ADHD. And now we are seeing like, hm there's actually some changes that we need to make with the diagnostic criteria, the ways we're assessing ADHD to account for the emotion regulation symptoms and to account for the inattentive symptoms too.
ADHD Symptoms in Education
00:04:43
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely was inattentive. Like I got by, I passed, I was excellent in school. I was like teacher's pet. I had friends. And I do remember specifically one time in um fifth grade, like the teacher was giving like it was, it must've been spelling test and you know how they give a sentence with the word and she used me in the sentence and like something really specific to like my, like a story I had told her, but I remember her going, I guess I like didn't notice it, but I remember her going, Oh, she's, she missed it. She's not listening right now. And my god I wasn't like, I know I wasn't distracted. I was taking a test, but I was like, she like saw, like, I was like in another world in my mind.
00:05:29
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it's hard to notice those those symptoms a lot of the times because yeah, like you could just be focusing on something else or daydreaming, but like those inattentive symptoms, I totally hear you.
ADHD in Girls
00:05:42
Speaker
They're like the hardest for me, definitely hard for a lot of kids and a lot of girls. Also, I will say who more likely have inattentive symptoms also.
00:05:50
Speaker
I think that people so really don't understand it in girls. i was I was talking to a friend the other day, and obviously I'm not a diagnostician. I can't diagnose somebody, but ive have learned a lot about it because of myself. I learned a lot about ADHD because I have been diagnosed. I got diagnosed when I was eight, and I actually asked my mom about this. I was like, how did you know to get me diagnosed? like It was the ninety s girls especially, and I wasn't like...
00:06:17
Speaker
quote, bad. she was like, you were really good at whatever you wanted to do, but you had such a hard time making any decisions. Oh, interesting. Is that like a sign?
00:06:28
Speaker
i hear that a lot with kids with ADHD. And I mean, the way that I think about it is like, okay, if you have ah decision to make, some people may logically think through it step by step, like what would happen But for ADHD people, it's like hard to organize your thoughts a lot of the times. And so it can make those in the moment decisions. It can leave you feeling really stuck a lot of the time. So I hear that a lot with like girls, especially, i would say. Yeah.
00:06:55
Speaker
Do you think that's why like it can look like, I know that we know ADHD, it's hard to like shift gears sometimes. So could that be why, like, for example, if you are like, we're having spaghetti for dinner, we're having spaghetti for dinner. And then you're like, Oh, we're out of red sauce. We're actually having burgers for dinner. And it's like meltdown city. and you're like, what happened? Is that like connected to that at all?
00:07:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's like um you have this idea in your mind, a plan, and then it doesn't go the way you were expecting. And I know a lot of people talk about offering choices to kids with ADHD. I'm curious for you if like you remember that being helpful or not helpful, because a lot of the times I find that offering choices can be good within reason, but it can also be really overwhelming to ADHD kids and it can sometimes backfire.
00:07:46
Speaker
Yeah, actually, think it for me as a kid and and a grown up with my own inner child i often like can't make a decision I can't I don't like to get to a restaurant before too many people because I don't want to pick where I'm sitting if it's a group like I want to show up and know that's the only seat left so I have to go there mm-hmm So I, I hate, I actually hate having food in my refrigerator. This sounds horrible, but like I can, I realized that I can only have the the items to make whatever one recipe I'm making. Because if I go to the store and get, say I'm to make two recipes that week and get all the things, I just feel stressed that, that all those items are in the fridge.
00:08:29
Speaker
That is so funny because i cannot go to a grocery Well, I can go to a grocery store, but I find it way too oversimulating. So I now only will do like the order ahead and pick up because too many things going on. And even if I have my list of things that I will pick up, I forget things. Like I don't know how it happens, but I forget things or I lose things. So It's way better to do it ahead of time.
00:08:51
Speaker
I also like, I clean out my closet once a month. Like i I, really hate having too much stuff. So even if I like, like the item, but I'm like, I haven't worn it. I like to have like six things in my closet. It just is super overstimulating for me to have too many clothes. Like I just, am like, I hate seeing it. I like, I'm just like, I want less. I want to just have what I have in front of me.
00:09:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And like all of these things that you're talking about with like feeling overwhelmed and like overstimulated by things, it's like that really does show like some of the emotional side of ADHD, you know? And I think it's another reason why in girls in particular, it can look more like anxiety at times, but all of these like overwhelmed feelings, frustration, irritability, it's the emotional symptoms are not talked about with ADHD, but they're a huge portion of it.
00:09:40
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So we're going to talk about this and we're going to give people like practical advice on how to help your child. But can you talk about like, how does the ADHD brain process frustration or disappointment differently than a neurotypical brain?
Emotional Processing in ADHD
00:09:56
Speaker
Yeah. Well, so we know that with emotions, there are like three different areas that ADHD people will struggle with for anything that happens, like a positive thing or negative thing. People with ADHD react more strongly to those emotions regardless. So if you're a child, you tell them we're going to Disneyland tomorrow, then they have like this huge reaction. Sometimes that is a lot for parents to manage too. So really, really strong reactions.
00:10:24
Speaker
And then another part is the emotion regulation piece, which is, okay, when they're up there and they've got this big emotion, how do they actually bring themselves down? And then the third piece that I like to talk about is like,
00:10:37
Speaker
When something happens, there's a tendency to interpret it in a more like black and white thinking style. And especially with like rejection sensitivity, you might think like a more negative thing would happen, right? So maybe my friend who hasn't texted me back, they don't want to be friends with me anymore instead of thinking they actually are just busy doing other things right now.
00:10:59
Speaker
Yeah, so how you how do you help a child like that? Because like, even I, as an adult, if I'm, if I'm, I know that I'm dysregulated, like, if I'm like stressed, right? I am like not doing my exercises, my breathing, my exercising, my eating enough protein, like all of these things matter so much to me on how, like, if I text three different people, like, oh, I'm free tonight. Can you hang out? And all three say no. And I'm like, well, I have absolutely no friends.
00:11:29
Speaker
Everyone hates me. And I'm an adult. Like, okay, so like a teenager, let's say, who is like not able to think clearly, isn't really focusing on how much protein, how much exercise they have, doing deep breathing, doing EFT tapping, like it doesn't has doesn't have a fully developed frontal lobe.
00:11:50
Speaker
And they have like the hormonal imbalance. Like how do we help them not spiral? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh, right? It's like a hard hard time when you have a teenager because they've got the teenage hormones and angst and then you've got the ADHD on top of that. The first thing that I always start with with parents is like giving your child or teen permission to experience those difficult feelings is actually really important. Like when you as a parent see that your child is upset, frustrated, or having a bit emotional, Your impulse is usually to jump in and try and fix it, right? Get rid of that emotion. But doing that doesn't actually help them with like really experiencing it over time and getting used to tolerating difficult emotions, right? Because there are going to be times as they grow up and they have to go through tough things. And the more they can tolerate it, the better.
00:12:44
Speaker
I think that people think that acknowledging the feeling means that we are okaying the behavior. So how do we like help people understand that? Yeah. So, I mean, i like to think about like how the emotion that your child is experiencing is always valid because it's their reality. Right. And we cannot argue with the fact that they feel a certain way or that they are experiencing this emotion. The way that they actually express that emotion may be a more helpful way or a less helpful way, right? So certainly like acting out aggressively or being impulsive. Those are the things where we wouldn't be validating that, right? And we wouldn't be really focusing on that piece, but certainly the emotion is something we are always acknowledging is valid.
00:13:33
Speaker
Okay, awesome. I actually, did you watch Stranger Things? No, I didn't actually. Okay. Tell me. to be So good. i really 10 years old at this point, eight years old. We're rewatching it with a middle schooler, which is fun. And she loves it. But I'm like, I like it more the second time I'm watching it. but the first time I was kind of scared of it. Now I'm like, this is fascinating, but spoiler alert, I guess on an eight year old show, but there's okay. So essentially this like 10 year old boy, there's like this upside down and there's like a monster, Demi Gorgon. And he like, I know he like, eats turner he he's like trapped in the upside down. And like, you find out at the end, he gets saved, but he like has like a part of the monster inside of him. And so he has these like emotional outbursts, like where he's like, the monster like speaks through him. And I was actually thinking about ADHD and teens with this because so he like does this thing where he's like healthy and normal and he's like loves his friends. And then he's like, make it colder. it wants it colder. Or he's like, you angered him. And then he like does something like he like,
00:14:50
Speaker
starts shaking and he like loses control. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I think like this, like Demi Gorgon monster, like living in him is kind of like a representation of, it could be a representation of a lot of things. Right. But I had this ADHD on the mind and I was like, it I kind of feel like if we like almost like personified it as like this other part that it's like you angered it. And like, so these moments of being like, oh, we're not having spaghetti for dinner anymore. Or your friend didn't text you back. It's like, you angered it. And it's like, here I come. And it's just like spirals and tornadoes.
00:15:25
Speaker
i am cracking up at your like impersonation of the demigorgon or demiorgan. don't know which one it is, but I hundred percent agree with you around like personifying it as something separate than your child, because like that is so helpful when you are able to look at and be like, okay, this emotional reaction is not my child. It is their ADHD that makes this hard for them. And with that, like, I have a lot of parents who will say like, well, like, but I don't want to excuse it. And I'm like, totally hear that. Right. And it's like, it's not an excuse. And definitely some things are harder for ADHD kids, but at the same time, like there still things that they do need to learn. And we, we need to learn how to support them in that.
00:16:10
Speaker
Because like, if we just view it as this is their ADHD, it's not something they can help. That's going to help them or you either. Right. Like I'm imagining this like monster, right? Like nobody wants this monster to take over the whole town and kill everybody. But like when he's activated, there's like, you're, they're kind of like throwing it snacks. They're like, okay, like, what do we do? How do we tame the monster? And so I think that that is like, I think that in ADHD kids is ah is an important piece. It's like in that moment of dysregulation, like kids need to borrow their regulation from us, from, from the, the grownup. And so like realizing like what's important now is the connection, not the correction. But then after like, because I think there's just like this monster, like let's like name it, like some sort of monster is like saying you're not loved, you're not wanted, you're too much. And so then if like the parent is like, go to your room or like stop doing that,
00:17:07
Speaker
It's just like making the monster bigger. It's like, see, I told you, nobody loves you. Nobody cares about you And it's just like start talking louder and louder. So like, so what would you say like to a parent to help like connect in that moment before they correct? And then like, and then go into, okay, what can we do differently next time? Or what, what would you say?
00:17:26
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely think that less words is better for kids during that time because you could be trying to say the best thing possible and the most supportive thing possible. But like you said, like their interpretation may be off because they're in their emotional brain. And so kids are not able to process in the same way when they're at a 10 on their emotions. And so even just like giving yourself permission to be there, be neutral, be calm, regulate yourself. is actually probably doing more than you think it is. And it can feel like i need to do something to help them, but you're you may be more successful if you give yourself permission to just stay calm and not do anything. And later, then you can have a talk about it, right? You can talk about what skills you could use next time, maybe something you could do differently.
Emotional Regulation Strategies
00:18:14
Speaker
But problem solving in the moment is usually super hard for kids and families.
00:18:19
Speaker
Yeah. I, that just made me think this is probably, I'm probably going regret sharing this story, but like when 10 years ago, was in a fight with my partner and I was like pretty dysregulated. Like I was going, I was like sick. I was going through something at the time. Like I was like really not myself and he should not have picked a fight. Okay. I'll just say that. But I was like, what are you not saying? You know? And he was like, um,
00:18:43
Speaker
nothing. I'll let it go. And I was like, no, yell at me. And i was like, say what you want to say. And he was like, I love you. And I want to be with you. And that's it. And I was like, I was calm then. And I was like, Oh, and then like, I was able to like see through what we were discussing, but like the shortness of like, just that, like, it was like, I think my monster was like really like the emotional piece of ADHD, like does get dysregulated. And it was like, Oh,
00:19:13
Speaker
That's it. You do want to be with me. You're not going to leave me. Okay. Now I can, now the monster can go to sleep. And you were like, you were really overstimulated. It sounds like, and like also like kind of needing some stimulation. Cause sometimes it's like, you want someone to match you and it can feel frustrating. But I mean, like, especially with kids, I will say it's hard. Like maybe they need another type of stimulation, right?
00:19:37
Speaker
Yeah. Why do kids with ADHD, like kind of like, I've heard they like love to be yelled at. Yeah. Or they love to argue. That's another one I hear. I just saw, did you post that about like, they usually end up being lawyers?
00:19:50
Speaker
Oh yeah, I did. I, I forgot, but I posted it yesterday because I used to be told that all the time. Like, you'll be a great lawyer when you grow up, Carrie, with how much you argue. Like, and I'm not obviously, but, um, yeah, it's like their brain, like the stimulation, like they are, a lot of people talk about like brains needing dopamine, ADHD, brains needing dopamine and like yes, ADHD brains process dopamine differently. And so it's not just like a lack of dopamine, but it's just the way they process it. So they will seek it out. And arguments are very stimulating, right? There's somebody that is like giving you a ton of, a ton of stimulation, yelling, high voice. And so even if it looks like your ADHD child likes to argue, or they're always arguing, keep in mind that like their brain is seeking it out. But ADHD kids, they do not want to
00:20:39
Speaker
argue. Like they're impulsive at times and that can lead to some of these reactions. But on the whole, a lot of ADHD kids feel like more shame after after an emotional and dysregulation outburst.
00:20:51
Speaker
Okay. Let's talk about the myth. Okay. Well, first of all, I have a quick quick question. What do you think about how everyone says like, oh, everyone has ADHD now? oh my gosh. It drives me crazy. Like it drives in crazy. There have been so many things I've seen lately that people are saying about ADHD and just Grinds my gears, you know, but the, everybody is a little bit ADHD. It's like, no, that is not the case at all.
00:21:17
Speaker
Yes. ADHD rates are increasing, but the reason for that is multifactorial. It's like a lot of different reasons. So for one, like a couple years ago, actually the diagnostic criteria for ADHD did change where initially you had to show these symptoms before seven years old.
00:21:35
Speaker
Now it's before 12 years old. The reason for that is because we know that for adults who are diagnosed with ADHD, they're not able to reliably look back on symptoms at that age.
00:21:47
Speaker
So yeah, makes a lot of sense for like some of the adults that are getting diagnosed, but even there are some interesting research showing that, of course, the increased awareness is helping. But then at the same time, what we see is that there are some changes in genetics over time that are actually potentially leading to some of the increased rates, particularly with like later pregnancies for men and women in general. Yeah. Wow.
00:22:15
Speaker
Okay. Interesting. Okay. Let's talk about motivation. So yeah you you mentioned like the
Task Initiation and Dopamine
00:22:21
Speaker
dopamine part. So I feel like task initiation is difficult for people and kids with ADHD. Kids are people, I could just say people with ADHD. Um, But so what's actually happening with dopamine and task initiation um with people with ADHD?
00:22:37
Speaker
Yeah. So when it comes to like starting a task, like people with eighty eight she they have a hard time getting started on it because it feels like an insurmountable task, right? So there are so many things that go into it. And a lot of the times it's what we make up in our heads. Like i need to be motivated to do the task. I need to have my desk clean.
00:22:56
Speaker
I need to like be ready. Like I have to like, actually be ready to start work. um I don't know if you experience any of those when you're like trying to get motivated on tasks. Yes. Yeah.
00:23:06
Speaker
Yep. So that's what happens a lot for like kids, teens and tweens and adults with ADHD and the motivation piece. It is truly a brain difference. i even think about motivation, I would say differently than what a lot of people may think about it. So like if you say your ADHD child is not motivated,
00:23:27
Speaker
you're looking at ADHD and motivation as like this finite resource, right? And it's like this thing that we only have a set amount of motivation to do things throughout the day. But the reality is that motivation is really just where we're directing our energy in the moment, right? So if you are strolling on TikTok, what are you motivated to do right then?
00:23:49
Speaker
TikTok. TikTok. Yeah, right? That's that's my life. Yeah. exist only on TikTok. I know. i And it's easy to be motivated to be on TikTok, right? But so if your child is scrolling on TikTok and they're not doing homework, it's not that they're not motivated. It's just that their motivation is directed towards TikTok and we need to find environmental strategies to direct their motivation elsewhere. Okay. So like how would, what would that look like?
00:24:17
Speaker
Yeah. Taking TikTok away? I mean, I would say like, we definitely want to make those exciting things less available in the moment, right? For myself, I have to have like my phone outside of the room if I'm doing something on the computer, because when it is within our reach, yes, our motivation is more easily directed towards that. So that's already an environmental change that is really easy for us to do. It's just like changing what we're doing in the moment.
00:24:44
Speaker
I think it's also really important to think about like how to break things up into small steps. So like with task initiation, if you are trying to do something and it feels too big, you're not going to do it So ask your teen, ask yourself, how can you make this smaller? Right?
00:25:00
Speaker
I think that's so good because I actually, i used to be very in ah and classic ADHD, always having a big interest that becomes like maybe a career, but I used to, I used to be a juicer and I actually like had like a small bakery that, that I like would make protein treats and sell my green juices. What?
00:25:18
Speaker
Yeah, I know. What? How did I not know this? i don't know. I also used to be a comedian. Oh my gosh. I know. I also have written a TV show, but...
00:25:30
Speaker
I love these random things I'm finding out about you. But I remember I was reading all about like nutrition and stuff in the juicing. And it, um, they were talking about, um, this nutritionist was talking about like, don't make yourself only eat organic, fresh vegetables. Like if the easiest thing for you is canned vegetables, then that is the vegetable you're going to eat. If you make yourself do that, you're never, you're going to crash. Like if that's not easy to keep up with. And I, think that is so true in every area of life in reading and teaching kids to read. Like if we say like, okay, my goal is to read 20 books a month.
00:26:03
Speaker
Like that's unattainable. So like making, making the things more like right sized. And so one of the things I personally do and I moved recently and I was like, I don't have my system set up. And I didn't realize I thought that I like don't have that many ADHD symptoms, but then, you know, my partner's like, you leave the um doors open in the cabinets or you, he follows me around and turns off all the lights afterwards. Sometimes I leave the sink running and I'm like, well, that's because I'm not in my regular routine here.
00:26:36
Speaker
Like I have, I didn't realize that I function because of like all of the steps I've like literally had hijacked my life to be like, boom, boom, boom, boom. boom Like my keys go here. And then when that's taken away, I'm like, Oh yeah.
00:26:52
Speaker
ah So what you were describing is also like what I always recommend to families, like trying to get your team to build a habit is like, you want these new things that they're trying to do to basically be reactions to their
Habit Building Techniques for ADHD
00:27:03
Speaker
environment. So like You don't want it to be something they have to do brand new. You want it to be just a normal reaction. So for example, like placing my meditation next to the coffee machine, because when I wake up, I am going to go get my coffee and eat breakfast as the first step. I don't have to then remember to go get my medication. It is truly just a reaction for me to open it and take my medication in the morning. Same for you with your keys. Also, that's a good example.
00:27:29
Speaker
Yeah. Oh my gosh. And I like literally like lost it when I couldn't find my keys. I'm like, where are they? I'm like looking on every floor. But I also, one of the things that I've instilled, like instead of like, here's where everything goes, because you know, like everybody in the house needs a routine. And instead of being like, okay, everybody put your stuff away. Like people, nobody in the house is doing that, but I'm like, okay, here's something I do is put it in one place. So like, I don't put something down. I'm like, I'm not going to put my coat down because I'm going to put it away. So sometimes I do walk around like holding a pan. that I like, I was like filling up and then I like remember up something upstairs and I like walk upstairs and I'm still holding the pan because I'm like, well, my rule is, you know, once one spot, i only put it down once.
00:28:10
Speaker
You're really good at not trusting your ADHD brain then. Like, but You're really good. Well, you know, in some ways, sometimes I like get hurt because sometimes I will be like likely to be like, oh my gosh, that curtain is just is a mess. And then I like stand on the windowsill and I'm holding the pan and I like just got to fix it. And then I fall and it's, you know.
00:28:31
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. But I don't know. A lot of people, they really struggle with saying like, okay, I will just remember that placed my keys there later or I'll hang up my coat later. And it doesn't happen. Like,
00:28:42
Speaker
failing to plan, failing to like think about where you put things. So like you have developed a habit of, I know I can't trust my brain. I'm going do it right now. Yes. Yes. Okay.
00:28:53
Speaker
Talk to me about what is good about these big feeling kids. Like what are the strengths that you most often see in kids? Like once the adults in their life understand them better, what, what does that look like?
00:29:07
Speaker
They're super empathetic, like super good friends. They really are big feelers in every single way. And I see so many ADHDers who are basically like such good friends and will always be there to support their other friends, even adults too. But I love that about them.
00:29:24
Speaker
So, okay. So ah let's give people like a tip on how to get there. So we want our kids to be like empathetic, good friends, big feelers, not like feel like they don't have friends and they're just right this disorganized, dysregulated.
00:29:36
Speaker
I would say like one thing i I think you'll probably agree on this is like for parents to remember, you don't need to do it perfectly, but like you can repair it and like showing how to repair is like huge for kids with ADHD. Yeah. How, how do you have go-to reframe for parents who feel like they're failing or how to repair after they lose it?
00:29:57
Speaker
I encourage parents to think, well, first off about like yourself or your child, like, um, you know, like I'm not a bad person. I was just having a hard time. Right. So I think that's an important one, just looking at as like the moment, but I also tell parents to stop shooting yourself and your child. So I should have done this. They should have done that. I should be a better parent. I shouldn't yell. The more you do that, it's going to fight against how you're feeling and it's going to make you feel worse. And so accepting that I made a mistake and this is what I can do to repair it. I can talk to my child and just apologizing or saying, Hey, I messed up when I yelled at you. Let's do a redo. That's the biggest thing you can do. And acknowledging it will help your child accept responsibility and make repairs too.
00:30:43
Speaker
Yeah. I think so many people forget that. Like, I do think that kids feel with ADHD feel like they're stuck in that. Like once they start like spiraling, like they do feel like the big monster and they're just like, I don't know how to fix this. So like to remind them, like, it's no big deal. We're moving on.
00:31:01
Speaker
i feel like is is so freeing. Yeah. I always find that if you try and do something like where you can connect right afterwards or just notice the first positive thing that you see, right? That will help with repairing it. So maybe you guys play a card game afterwards or you say, oh I love how you were able to like calm down or or talk to me afterwards.
00:31:22
Speaker
That's a great way to just get you guys back on the right track. Okay. Love it. I have two questions from parents. One, okay. How do I deal with impulsive blurting? Like how do I support them before the blurting out starts?
00:31:38
Speaker
Okay, so I want you to think about why the boarding happens. A lot of the times, like it is because ADHD kids, they have something on their mind that they really want to say. and yes, there's that impulsivity, but they also don't want to lose it. Like they don't want to forget about it. So it can be helpful if they are in a classroom setting or if they are just in an area where they like can write it down while you are talking. That is super helpful because it also keeps them like, it keeps them occupied. And they can write down what they want to say or what they want to ask you. And then when you have a moment, you can actually have them ask it to you. Oh, that's great. So like maybe an accommodation would be like having a post-it on their desk or a stack of post-its.
00:32:21
Speaker
Yeah. That's absolutely it. Like in session with me, like when I'm checking in with a parent and a kid is there, i will have them use a whiteboard and just write it down because they physically are crawling out of their body to like try and say what they want to say. Or if you're like in a public situation and your child is trying to talk to you while you're talking to another adult, placing your hand on them so that they know you're acknowledging them and then like removing your hand when it's their turn. can help. Okay.
00:32:49
Speaker
How, how to handle upset kid who is having a hard time socializing with peers at school? Oh, well, the thing is like socializing, difficulty socializing with peers, there's honestly so many ways that that can go, I would say.
00:33:05
Speaker
i mean, first, I think like stepping back and thinking about like, okay, where are these difficulties with socializing coming from? Because yes, ADHD kids can be more impulsive. And sometimes they may say things that may look different to other kids. But I have also heard from a lot of parents where like when an ADHD kid does blurt something out, the other kids react in a way that I think is socially unskilled. Also, like they may say you're annoying. And I think we need to put as much attention onto how other kids are reacting also as your child. um So again, like that's just one example of some of that impulsivity that I see a lot with the social challenges.
00:33:46
Speaker
That's really great. Okay. How can you help a parent see their big feeling child, their feelings as strengths instead of a flaw? is I guess it would probably start with like the parent seeing it as a strength first and then helping their child. But do you have any suggestions there?
00:34:04
Speaker
yeah I would look at like, where does your child show those strengths? So like, Is it like they're really caring about animals, right? And so there maybe would be like a great fit for them to showcase those strengths by volunteering at an animal shelter, right? So um noticing how that strength of being a big feeler comes out and then finding what are the ways that you can support it and even making it a family activity because then it's going to shine more.
00:34:29
Speaker
and you'll be able to like acknowledge all the great things about it. Okay, so we we said that, you know, remember that when kids are dysregulated, they're borrowing their regulation from you. So do you have any tips on how parents can calm their own nervous systems before responding to their ADHD child's meltdown?
Parental Guidance on Emotional Outbursts
00:34:50
Speaker
ah Yes. So, okay, let's go over a couple of things that you can do. So if your child is having a really big emotion in the moment, You will probably want to either do something or tell yourself something so that you do not react. Okay. So if you need to do something, maybe what you're doing is you are doing the dishes and they are like in the kitchen, right? Give yourself something to occupy yourself with or tell yourself something or truly count in your head. Right. So like start like giving yourself something to think about other than what is going on in that moment. So you need a distraction.
00:35:24
Speaker
I also think it's really helpful to in the moment remind yourself, I'm giving myself permission to not do anything because I know this is the best thing to do. Because if you don't give yourself that permission, it's so hard to just stay there and stay calm.
00:35:40
Speaker
Wait, say that again, because we actually do a permission slip in every episode. So this is going to be our permission slip. my gosh, how perfect. So i am giving myself permission to stay here, stay calm, and to not say anything to fix it in the moment. well Permission to stay here, stay calm, not fix anything in the moment.
00:36:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And that's what the parent is going to say before they react to their child with ADHD. Yeah, because you really do need that reminder that The best thing to do in those situations is usually to do nothing at all. Okay.
00:36:13
Speaker
I love it Um, how, how would you say like, do okay. Somebody asked, it seems like traditional discipline, like timeouts and loss of privileges don't really work for my kid with
Effective Discipline for ADHD Children
00:36:27
Speaker
ADHD. Is that true? I would say that they in general are less effective, but they do have their time in place, but they need to be done in like a different way, usually for ADHD kids. And, um,
00:36:41
Speaker
for all kids, we know that the like more positive types of like parenting strategies. So like acknowledgements, praise, queer structure, queer guidelines, giving all of that positive praise and even rewards and motivators, those actually are more effective at changing any type of behavior or challenge than doing something like a timeout, a consequence or a loss of privilege. That's across the board for all kids. We know that. So It's just even more intensified with ADHDers. And especially if you as a parent have ADHD, it's hard to remember to do some of these things.
00:37:18
Speaker
It sure is. Okay. What are two or three things that parents can do like right now to make life feel calmer and more connected? Okay. Set aside 10 minutes one-on-one time with your ADHD child every single day, doing something that they want to do.
00:37:37
Speaker
Quality time. Could be playing a game, but make sure that is something they want to do. Number two is you want to praise one thing that they did really well in the moment. So if they got home and they hanged up their backpack, great job remembering to hang up your backpack when you got home.
00:37:53
Speaker
Yep. That's number two. Yeah. Do have question about that one? I do. No, I was just thinking like that specificity of that is I think the key that people need to remember. Cause I think like a lot of parents are like, I did, I said, great work. You did everything I asked you to, but I think like the really specific helps. Right. Yeah. Because that is how kids know like what they did that was right. Right. So, I mean, think about if your child gets like a essay that was graded by a teacher and it just says, good job. It's like, all right, well, that's great. But like, what do I do the next time? They don't know what to do in the moment.
00:38:31
Speaker
And then my last one is whenever you're talking to your ADHD child, tell them what to do rather than what not to do. Yes. I have found, I take tennis lessons and I, like people laugh at me because I'm like, I am like so zoned in on the teacher. And I'm like, wait, did he say to go here or here? And people are like, I don't know. And and they don't care because we're adults, but I'm like, i don't want to get in trouble. I don't want to do it wrong. Like, I really want to know.
00:38:59
Speaker
i feel so safe when I know exactly what is expected of me. exactly Which is weird because I hate when people tell me too much what to do though. Yeah, but like one clear specific instruction on what to do helps a ton, right? So instead of saying, don't jump on the couch, saying, please sit on the couch. It could be as simple as that.
00:39:22
Speaker
Yeah, or go jump on the trampoline. Yeah, exactly. Because I always tell parents, like if you tell your child, like don't jump on the couch and then they start doing somersaults, they are listening to you. Yeah.
00:39:34
Speaker
You are so right. that is that That's a really good classroom management. Whenever I talk to schools about classroom management, it's that. like Whenever a kid draws on the walls, if you didn't explicitly say only draw with these markers on the paper, that's on you, not on the kid. like We need to be really clear.
00:39:52
Speaker
Yes, I know. and like These things, they sound like they are common sense, but unfortunately, they are not. and like That explicit guideline is going to be so important for your child, for your teen also.
00:40:06
Speaker
Well, and that's the good news too, is I think it's like not rocket science. It's actually just like, you just need to clearly say, when you walk in the door, put your backpack on this hook, then sit in the chair. Like we don't need to be like, so like jumping through hoops. Like we just need to really explicitly say what our expectation is for the child. And they're going to feel safe and secure knowing what the expectation is. And like, honestly, in turn, like probably less quote, bad behaviors are going to happen if we have really clear like parameters.
Setting Expectations for Emotional Regulation
00:40:41
Speaker
Yeah, those clear parameters are the hallmark of emotion regulation in ADHD kids because they set like that foundation when you know what to expect and they know what to expect. It goes a long way. And then like the other challenges that come up, they're much more manageable.
00:40:59
Speaker
I love that. Okay. So to recap, big feelings aren't bad. They're just maybe a little bit louder. Maybe name the ADHD like monster in you so you can like separate it and be like, this is how this is feeling. Regulate yourself. Your kids are going to borrow their regulation from you.
00:41:20
Speaker
What else did we talk about? Giving yourself permission to do nothing in the moment. Okay. So where, oh wait, before I ask where people can find you, I have one random question. I didn't tell you this ahead of time. Do you have any hot takes on um children's books that like, do you like really hate any certain children's books from our childhood or current children's books?
00:41:46
Speaker
Oh my goodness. Oh my gosh. I love this. I know, but you can think about it for a minute. Yeah. Let me try and think about it. Hot takes on books that I really do hate. Like for me, one of them is The Giving Tree.
00:42:00
Speaker
I like hate it. Because you know, like, did you read that? I did read it. I was a chicken noodle soup for the soul. And do you like it? I loved it as a child, but I think that's because I was, I'm a therapist now. Like.
00:42:15
Speaker
I actually saw a meme that was like, if you read chicken soup for the soul, how is your career as a teacher or therapist going? Oh my gosh, literally, that is me. Yeah.
00:42:26
Speaker
would you Would you recommend it now? For a kid? No. Yeah, I know. I feel like some of the books- That's weird. Oh, even actually, i like Seventh Heaven, I watched Seventh Heaven as a kid.
00:42:37
Speaker
and Me too. I'm like, that was like low-key not appropriate. It was not a- No, it was not okay. And I think that there's been some weird stuff that has come out too, too. Um, yeah, I think so. Yeah.
00:42:48
Speaker
But it's like that, that's like kind of like the hot take is like of, it's like, not like there's anything explicitly wrong with these things. But then when you like dig deeper, you're like, is this actually not emotionally appropriate for a child? And, and maybe for some kids it's fine. But like for me, a deeply feeling child, the giving tree was not like hot take, but I hated the giving tree because I felt so sad i felt so sad for every tree i ever saw i felt so sad reading that book i felt sad when i saw the cover of that book and like it like you know like it teaches like give give give give of yourself and like i just think we want kids like we don't need to swing so far the other way that we say like don't help others but like i just think like our generation like millennials in general were told like you know be quiet this is what you have to do like be a martyr like you know yeah and don't know
00:43:39
Speaker
Yeah, I don't, you know, i I don't have like a great hot take on a book because honestly, like one of the hard things I feel like about my ADHD is I forget books right after I read them and I forget movies right after I watch them. But a lot of the like Disney fairy tales definitely do not have good actual themes for kids, I would say. Like Ariel getting her voice taken away. There's a lot of controversial stuff in there.
00:44:06
Speaker
I actually lived in Copenhagen, Denmark, and like took an English class on Hans Christian Andersen, who created all of those stories. And I remember reading the real ones, and I was like, oh, no, this is not what we want to be telling kids at all. so Okay, that's a hot take. We'll take it.
00:44:23
Speaker
um Wait, I just had a question. What I just going to ask? Go Dog Girl was my favorite book as a child, though. Mine, too. Wait, mine, too. Or... I love Go Dog Go. It was like me and my dad's book. And then what was that? Do you like? It said, do you like my hat in it a lot, right? I do not. Yeah. Goodbye. Goodbye. Oh my gosh.
00:44:42
Speaker
Wait, you just said something about ah Ariel voice taken Disney. I don't remember what I was going to ask you. It something specific about you. can't remember. Tennis.
00:44:54
Speaker
Reading. Oh, reading. I forget things. Oh, that's, that was it. Yeah. Look at us. We got back. but I love how like it's about me forgetting things and then we forgot what we we forgot. But okay, you were on the fence about reading God of the Woods.
00:45:09
Speaker
Yes. And you liked it, right? I loved it. Definitely did miss some plot lines. Same most plot lines. But I really thought I was like, I'm not to be able to keep up with all of these characters. And I did way better than I thought I would. And it was really good. Highly recommend. You read it, right? I did too. And I liked it. And I told you, you said like people said that you wouldn't like it. And I was like, I think you would. And yes.
00:45:34
Speaker
And why did people say you wouldn't like it? It's very long. The storylines they thought would be too long for me. And it would be hard for me to keep track of all the characters. Yeah. But sometimes doesn't like more chaos feel calmer?
00:45:46
Speaker
Yeah. and Is there a reason for that? I think it's just like what our brains are used to sometimes and like familiarity can feel nice and it can be be what we're used to. um But I also read it in like the span of like a few days, I think, which helped me with remembering things. Yeah, that's good.
00:46:03
Speaker
I love it. yeah Okay, where can listeners find you if they have more questions? Because I'm sure they do.
Resources and Conclusion
00:46:10
Speaker
Yes, so I am on Instagram and TikTok. That's really on right now that I'm on, but you can find me there. i am at dr.kerryjackson. And then i have a website, drkerryjackson.com, where I've got tons of resources for parents of ADHD kids, tweens, and teens.
00:46:27
Speaker
So you guys can definitely check out all my free resources there. And Instagram and TikTok would love to see y'all. Love it. And i hope this conversation helped you remember, like, you are not alone. You're doing a great job and you have permission to like, take a break, take it easy. in fact, that's probably going to help your child.
00:46:48
Speaker
And there is nothing wrong with your child. They're just, they just don't have the skills that they need yet to live in the world that we're asking them to live in. um, or the classroom that they're at. We're asking them to be in. Um, so Carrie, thank you so much for being here. It's so fun to have you as always.
00:47:06
Speaker
is always so fun to see you and, you know, chatting with you is just like chatting with a friend. So I love seeing you and chatting about all things ADHD because we have it in common and, you know, We support a lot of the same kids. Yes, I love it. And it's kind of like body doubling here. So we're like, really ah right?
00:47:23
Speaker
Okay. Thanks for tuning into the Plan Words podcast from Big City Readers. um You can find all of our related resources at bigcityreaders.com about emotional regulation and parent guide on how to talk to your child's teacher as well. And we'll link them in the show notes. If you like this show, please rate and review and share it with a friend. I'll see you next time.