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#146 - Hannah Schofield
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Literary agent, Hannah Schofield returns after winning the RNA's Agent of the Year Award, two years running! This is a great episode for anyone wondering about the financial break down of a book deal as we chat about signings, royalties and how it's all distributed.
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Transcript
Fixing Plot Holes vs. Reader Expectations
00:00:00
Speaker
Ooh, a spicy question.
00:00:02
Speaker
I love it.
00:00:02
Speaker
Because the writing is sort of everything, right?
00:00:04
Speaker
Like you can fix plot holes, but if the writing... So some readers love that and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this.
00:00:11
Speaker
So it's kind of a gamble.
Meet Hannah Schofield: Literary Agent Extraordinaire
00:00:15
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast.
00:00:18
Speaker
With me today, returning from what is becoming an annual feature at this point, last year's Romantic Novelist Association's Agent of the Year and a finalist again for this year, also this year, achieved the London Book Fair's Trailblazer Award.
00:00:32
Speaker
It's LBA's Hannah Schofield.
00:00:35
Speaker
Welcome back.
00:00:36
Speaker
Hannah Schofield Hi, thank you so much for having me again.
00:00:40
Speaker
Lovely to be here, third year in a row.
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Speaker
And even more lovely to be introduced with so many accolades to my name.
00:00:47
Speaker
I know every time you come on, it gets longer.
00:00:50
Speaker
You're like Daenerys Targaryen.
00:00:52
Speaker
Well, I'm always like, oh, is it, you know, is it, is it too, too much to be like, oh, multi award winning agent.
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Speaker
But it is true.
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Speaker
So I'm excited.
00:01:04
Speaker
Well, facts are facts.
00:01:05
Speaker
So it's always a delight to have you on.
00:01:07
Speaker
Thanks so much for coming.
00:01:10
Speaker
Third time on the podcast.
00:01:12
Speaker
And as we've mentioned, it seems like every time you come on, you've collected another award we added into your introduction.
00:01:20
Speaker
And congratulations, obviously, again, this year for the RNA awards, which are coming up soon down to the final two, you and Lena Langley.
00:01:30
Speaker
Can you do two in a row?
Awards and Industry Recognition
00:01:33
Speaker
I don't know.
00:01:33
Speaker
I mean, that would be pretty cool.
00:01:36
Speaker
I mean, I'm honestly just so delighted to be back on the shortlist.
00:01:41
Speaker
Lina is, of course, absolutely amazing.
00:01:43
Speaker
So no pressure.
00:01:46
Speaker
But this was like a career goal for me.
00:01:49
Speaker
And when it came true last year, it was just amazing.
00:01:54
Speaker
absolutely awesome um and so for it to be be dangled in front of me again the second year running just feels really really exciting and affirming of all the all the work I'm doing in the romance space and it's yeah it's really lovely to have that recognition from the industry
00:02:15
Speaker
Yeah, it must be, like you said, so validating to know that you are doing something that everyone else has sort of acknowledged that as, oh, this is great.
00:02:24
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They're doing a really good job and really kind of helping.
00:02:27
Speaker
Because as an agent, your job is to help authors, you know, obviously you have an investment in it as well, but your job is to help authors kind of be the best they can be and kind of have a career of their own.
00:02:38
Speaker
Yes, definitely.
00:02:39
Speaker
And I think agenting can sometimes feel quite insular.
00:02:44
Speaker
So having that recognition is really great.
00:02:47
Speaker
And also, I think it widens the opportunities for my authors, particularly in the romantic space.
00:02:54
Speaker
that people know me for this area.
00:02:57
Speaker
And so when I'm working on authors' books, which are in the romantic fiction space, I feel like that gives extra clout to them, which I really like as well.
00:03:06
Speaker
Yeah,
Impact of Awards on Submissions
00:03:07
Speaker
yeah, yeah.
00:03:07
Speaker
When you get these awards, so you won last year and then you've got the Trailblazer Award this year from the Lion Book Fair, do you notice a sort of uptick in how many submissions you get from authors and interactions?
00:03:25
Speaker
I mean, I feel like I always get quite a lot of submissions, so I wouldn't necessarily say...
00:03:32
Speaker
there's been a much greater uptick.
00:03:34
Speaker
But I do think the proportion of submissions I get that are from romance authors probably has increased in the last year.
00:03:43
Speaker
And whether that's because of my award win, or whether that's because that's a really hot place in the market right now, it's probably a little bit of both, I would say.
00:03:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:56
Speaker
You work with the RNA on other things as well.
00:03:59
Speaker
So I'm guessing that you just have quite a lot of crossover with their members and you'll probably get a lot of submissions just from people associated with that.
00:04:08
Speaker
Yes, definitely.
00:04:09
Speaker
It's been really wonderful to work closely with the RNA for several years.
00:04:14
Speaker
And I attended my second conference with them this summer in person, which was really nice.
00:04:20
Speaker
And I think that definitely...
00:04:22
Speaker
led more people to my inbox.
00:04:25
Speaker
So yeah, I'm always on the lookout for romance submissions.
00:04:29
Speaker
So it's a really nice partnership to be able to explore.
00:04:34
Speaker
Yeah.
Hannah's Past and Present Podcast Appearances
00:04:35
Speaker
And so as mentioned, and long-term fans will probably have listened to both your previous episodes.
00:04:41
Speaker
Um, if you, and if you do want to hear more about Hannah's kind of career path into becoming an agent and, um, what she does kind of day to day tackling submissions and things like that, go check out the other, the other episodes with Hannah.
00:04:55
Speaker
That's episode 50 and episode 95.
00:04:58
Speaker
We'll get an update on what Hannah's looking for and working on later on in this episode.
Understanding Six-Figure Book Deals
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But for now, I'd love the opportunity to ask some questions more about publishing and the kind of mechanics of publishing and deals.
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Speaker
So it's often, I mean, publishing is a mystery to a lot of people outside the industry.
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Speaker
I think to a lot of people inside the industry as well.
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Speaker
But when I go on the bookseller, and this is something I'd love to sort of get cleared up a bit.
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Speaker
I go on the bookseller and I see a headline and it says, so-and-so has signed a six-figure deal with whomever publisher it might be.
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Speaker
What does that mean in terms of like, who's getting six figures?
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Speaker
Is anyone getting six figures?
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How's that being divvied up between author, agent, and whatever other parties might be involved with that?
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Great question.
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Speaker
The six-figure deal, obviously...
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Speaker
is very broad term.
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Speaker
It's a big range.
00:06:02
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Anything from £100,000 to just under a million pounds.
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So that's a big range.
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Speaker
And the way that monies are paid out on publishing contracts, it's not like you can get that deal and then quit your job the next day because
00:06:17
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you're unlikely to get all of that money up front.
00:06:19
Speaker
You will get some of it up front.
00:06:21
Speaker
So usually a advance is split into three or four sections, which will be on the signing of the contract, on the delivery of the final manuscript, which in practice means when the manuscript goes to copy edit, and then on first publication, and sometimes also the fourth part on first paperback publication.
00:06:47
Speaker
Say you've got £100,000 on the table for your book.
00:06:51
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Great news, first of all.
00:06:53
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That's really great news.
00:06:54
Speaker
That's not all going to hit your bank account at once.
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That might be over the course of two, three, four years.
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Speaker
And of course, the agent will take their commission on that deal, which the standard is 15%.
00:07:11
Speaker
Although in the UK, don't forget about VAT because that also takes a chunk.
00:07:17
Speaker
But after that, then money should always flow to the author.
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So it will come from the publisher to the agency.
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The agency will take their cut and then it will be paid out to the author.
00:07:29
Speaker
But of course, timings...
00:07:31
Speaker
can really vary on that depending on how long the manuscript takes to complete depending on when they're going to publish so I would say like any author who is worried about finances or has questions about their finances like definitely ask your agent to sit down with you and kind of talk through when the payments are coming what your cut is going to be and what
00:07:54
Speaker
be able to sort of like look at it holistically there.
00:07:56
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I think that's very important.
00:07:57
Speaker
A lot of authors and publishing people are obviously quite like humanities orientated because they're creatives.
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Speaker
But I love maths and I think it's really important that everyone knows how to do the maths of their own income.
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Speaker
So yeah, I do think that's really useful to sit down and crunch the numbers.
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Speaker
And if you're looking for extra maths fun, crunching the numbers of what you would have to sell to earn out your advance, I think is also a very helpful metric.
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So you just sort of can know what you're shooting for.
Royalties and Advances Explained
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Speaker
Okay.
00:08:34
Speaker
So let's, for the simplicity of maths, if you had a 100,000 deal, you're probably over the course of three or four years, you think you're probably going to actually only receive about 70,000 of that because the rest of it will be tax or for the agent.
00:08:57
Speaker
Oh, I hadn't even thought about tax.
00:08:59
Speaker
That's a great point.
00:09:02
Speaker
Well, if you're a self-employed author with a UK agent based in the UK, you will receive 82%.
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Speaker
So in this case, that would be
00:09:15
Speaker
£82,000 from the overall deal pre-tax.
00:09:20
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So post-tax, I can't do that maths in my head right now, but maybe that will be around £70,000.
00:09:26
Speaker
So yeah, it's not unfortunately quit your job tomorrow money, but it is.
00:09:32
Speaker
And that's over the course of years, like you said.
00:09:35
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:09:37
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You know, of course, as the numbers go up, so too do the installments.
00:09:42
Speaker
So yeah, there's different levels, even in the six-figure deal.
00:09:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:09:50
Speaker
It can contain multitudes.
00:09:52
Speaker
Yes, yeah, of course.
00:09:53
Speaker
But it's good to know that, you know, the lion, when you do read so-and-so has got a big deal, the lion's share of that is actually money that is being paid to the author.
00:10:03
Speaker
Oh, absolutely.
00:10:05
Speaker
And you mentioned it briefly there about advances.
00:10:09
Speaker
I've a simple understanding of how royalties work in terms of advances, but just run me through how it works.
00:10:18
Speaker
The author gets the advance, which will be probably a quarter or so of whatever the deal is.
00:10:24
Speaker
And then before they can start receiving royalties itself, like royalties directly, they have to pay off the advance with the royalties.
00:10:33
Speaker
Is that correct?
00:10:34
Speaker
Yes.
00:10:35
Speaker
So the way it works is everything that the publisher sells, and that includes copies through the tills or e-books or audio books or sometimes subsidiary rights, including translation, the author's chunk of that is accounted against their advance.
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Speaker
For example, if you have a hardback royalty, that means you're going to get two pounds per copy, which is
00:11:02
Speaker
may well be a little generous, but it's useful for the maths, then you would have to earn back of those like kind of two pound increments all the way to your advance to be able to get any royalty payments on that.
00:11:16
Speaker
But of course, there'll be different formats.
00:11:18
Speaker
So it won't just be the hardback royalties.
00:11:20
Speaker
And if your publisher is also selling your translation rights, for example, if they do a giant deal in Germany, that's a really nice chunk out of your advance.
00:11:29
Speaker
And that might be two years before your book's published.
00:11:32
Speaker
So then you would have less that you would need to earn out before you can start earning royalties.
00:11:38
Speaker
I really think the thing to remember is publishers will make money before you earn out your advance.
00:11:46
Speaker
Otherwise, the whole thing wouldn't work.
00:11:48
Speaker
So if you are looking at your advance and thinking, oh, my goodness, I'm still so far away from publishing.
00:11:54
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earning it out, or maybe I'm quite close to earning it out, but it hasn't happened yet.
00:11:59
Speaker
Rest assured that your publisher is still making money and like, it's not necessarily a bad thing that you haven't earned out your advance.
00:12:07
Speaker
It's, it's one of the, the very magical publishing metrics that they use to determine kind of their own profit and loss in house.
Earning Out an Advance: Implications
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Speaker
And it's quite difficult to sort of, I guess, impose,
00:12:23
Speaker
any kind of meaning to that.
00:12:27
Speaker
So I think it is really important to sit down with your agent, to look at the numbers, to think how many copies would I need to sell to earn out this advance?
00:12:37
Speaker
How many hardbacks, how many e-books, et cetera?
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Speaker
Or what sort of subsidiary rights would I need to bring in so that you have a sense of it?
00:12:45
Speaker
But very successful authors may never earn out their advance and that's also fine.
00:12:52
Speaker
Interesting.
00:12:53
Speaker
I've also heard conversely of some authors, usually established authors, when they are negotiating deals, and they'll already have multiple books published and they'll be doing this full time.
00:13:07
Speaker
Some people do like to try and have a smaller advance so that they can earn it out very quickly.
00:13:13
Speaker
That's also an option.
00:13:15
Speaker
And some publishers have deliberately smaller advances so that
00:13:21
Speaker
authors move on to a royalty model more quickly.
00:13:25
Speaker
And either way, book money can be quite unpredictable.
00:13:29
Speaker
So if you have a really great season when you're earning royalties, and they tend to be accounted six monthly in traditional publishing deals.
00:13:38
Speaker
So you could have a really great six months and earn lots of monies in royalties, and then a downturn in the next six months, and then you wouldn't earn very much.
00:13:47
Speaker
So
00:13:48
Speaker
Again, it's a really difficult thing to predict.
00:13:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:53
Speaker
So it's why, you know, your agent should definitely be checking in with the publisher, checking in about sales figures, especially when you're on either a royalty only model from the start or you've moved on to a royalty model having earned out your advance because it's just worth tracking.
00:14:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:11
Speaker
And presumably, as you say, it's very difficult to predict these things, but will a publisher be more excited about re-signing an author for more books if they quite quickly earn out their advance?
00:14:25
Speaker
It depends on the publisher and it depends on the size of the advance.
00:14:29
Speaker
If an author's earned out like £500,000 in six months, then
00:14:36
Speaker
Yes, the publisher will be very excited to take their next project.
00:14:40
Speaker
Honestly, I always say to my authors, everything depends on a brilliant next idea.
00:14:46
Speaker
So kind of regardless of whether you've been a huge success, a medium success or not the success that you've hoped, if you've got a really brilliant next idea, then that's the main
Deciphering Book Success Beyond Earnings
00:15:01
Speaker
thing.
00:15:01
Speaker
Sales figures obviously do factor into publishing decisions.
00:15:05
Speaker
either for recontracts or for taking a chance on an author who has publication history.
00:15:12
Speaker
But it's not the be all and end all always.
00:15:14
Speaker
Yeah, I think one of the coolest things for me, at least about publishing is that it's one of the few kind of creative industries where a lot of the time the product is bigger than the creator in some way.
00:15:28
Speaker
Books are more famous than authors.
00:15:31
Speaker
That makes sense.
00:15:32
Speaker
Really interesting.
00:15:33
Speaker
I guess that's true.
00:15:35
Speaker
Although I think to some degree for like brand authors, there is more of that sense of like, the author is who I want to pick up the next book from rather than like individual books.
00:15:47
Speaker
But yeah, that's, that's a nice way of thinking about it.
00:15:50
Speaker
Yeah, I've always thought that people can name a lot more books than they could authors.
00:15:55
Speaker
And even if they could name the author, they probably wouldn't recognize them necessarily unless they're a super fan or something.
00:16:01
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's true.
00:16:02
Speaker
And I think even though we've come...
00:16:06
Speaker
quite far from the sort of author in the garage no one knows who they are era yeah um with sort of increased presence of authors on social media and so on there there is as you say i guess more of a more of a sense of privacy perhaps if you're an author although probably authors will say don't be ridiculous my publishers on tiktok the whole time yeah
00:16:27
Speaker
As an agent, no one knows who I am and that's ideal.
00:16:31
Speaker
So yeah.
00:16:31
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:33
Speaker
I guess the, um, the recently passed Cormac McCarthy was the sort of last of the sort of epic.
00:16:41
Speaker
No one really knew anything about him has done like one interview, his whole career kind of authors.
00:16:47
Speaker
I mean, you kind of have to respect that, to be honest.
00:16:49
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:16:50
Speaker
But if you are an aspiring author and want to be that sort of person, I think that would be a red flag for a publisher.
00:16:57
Speaker
You might want to have a bit more involvement between author and publicity.
00:17:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:04
Speaker
I mean, also I'm very impressed if your, if your level of standard that you're aiming for is Cormac McCarthy.
00:17:10
Speaker
So good luck to everyone attempting to achieve that.
00:17:12
Speaker
I hope, I hope you do it because I would love to read.
00:17:17
Speaker
Back down to us.
00:17:18
Speaker
As an agent, you obviously take a cut of, like we said, you take a cut of the deal when it's signed, um, which is standard 15%, uh,
00:17:28
Speaker
Is there any involvement or cut from the royalties or is it all on the initial deal?
00:17:36
Speaker
The 15% is on everything that the author brings into the agency.
00:17:41
Speaker
So any deals that they do, the agency cut will come off the advance if there is one, and then any subsequent royalties.
00:17:49
Speaker
So any payment that lands in the agency bank account will have a cut taken out of it before the author gets their much bigger cut passed to them.
00:17:59
Speaker
Okay, right.
00:18:01
Speaker
I'm assuming you don't get the 15% of royalties when the author is not earning them because they're paying off the advance though.
00:18:09
Speaker
Did that make sense?
00:18:10
Speaker
Exactly.
00:18:11
Speaker
Yes.
00:18:11
Speaker
So that's just accountancy that's done on the publisher side and wouldn't result in a payment.
00:18:17
Speaker
Okay.
00:18:18
Speaker
Okay.
00:18:18
Speaker
Okay.
Current Submission Interests
00:18:19
Speaker
That's good to know.
00:18:19
Speaker
Good to clarify.
00:18:21
Speaker
Well, that was really interesting and enlightening for me.
00:18:23
Speaker
I hope it was enlightening for, for, for people listening, getting onto, um, submissions.
00:18:29
Speaker
We've, we've talked a lot about submissions and how Hannah tackles them in the previous episodes, but it's great to check in and see what you're looking for at the moment because you are open to submissions.
00:18:38
Speaker
Um, and whilst you do work in, in romance, uh,
00:18:43
Speaker
as obviously is attributed by the RNA.
00:18:46
Speaker
Just so everyone listening can know if they're thinking about submitting, what are the kind of genres and styles that you have on your list?
00:18:53
Speaker
I have on my list or have on my wishlist?
00:18:55
Speaker
Are they different?
00:18:57
Speaker
Not really.
00:18:59
Speaker
As my list has grown, I find myself more intentional about the projects I'm seeking out so that I'm not
00:19:09
Speaker
bringing people to my list who would compete with existing authors if that makes sense.
00:19:15
Speaker
But in general, I'm looking for
00:19:20
Speaker
commercial and upmarket fiction across genres, as well as some nonfiction and some YA.
00:19:28
Speaker
And I always say, if you want to win the Booker Prize, I'm not your gal.
00:19:34
Speaker
So an indication of that is basically I don't do literary fiction.
00:19:39
Speaker
And that's not something that I have any expertise in or particularly gravitate towards.
00:19:44
Speaker
So in terms of like tone and vibe, I'm very much a character driven character.
00:19:49
Speaker
Reader, I need to have a plot.
00:19:52
Speaker
If it's all vibes, again, I'm not the gal for you.
00:19:57
Speaker
But I'm really open across genres.
00:20:00
Speaker
I don't do sci-fi or saga, again, just because I don't have expertise in those areas.
00:20:08
Speaker
But more or less everything else I'm open to.
00:20:12
Speaker
And in commercial fiction, of course, the big thing is the cracking one line pitch.
00:20:19
Speaker
And that's true whether it's romance, historical, thriller, whatever.
00:20:25
Speaker
That's kind of the thing that I will always get excited about in my inbox.
00:20:31
Speaker
And at this time of year, I do tend to be looking for kind of mystery thriller.
00:20:36
Speaker
I think it's something about the autumn just brings that out of me.
00:20:40
Speaker
But I'm always open to being
Genre Preferences and Trends
00:20:43
Speaker
surprised.
00:20:43
Speaker
And I think, again, as my list has grown,
00:20:48
Speaker
I have less slots that I'm looking to fill, fewer slots I'm looking to fill, but I'm still looking for new authors.
00:20:57
Speaker
I still love the kind of rush of a new project landing.
00:21:00
Speaker
You're like, I must have this.
00:21:02
Speaker
I must work on this.
00:21:04
Speaker
So yeah, and all this is of course on the LBA website as well, in case anyone wanted to have more specific guidelines and books that I have loved.
00:21:16
Speaker
But yeah, I'm a pretty broad church, quite deliberately.
00:21:23
Speaker
Yeah, it's a sort of tricky dilemma of the agent as you build your list, as your list gets bigger.
00:21:29
Speaker
You sort of have less space to fill, but also you probably have more submissions than you've ever had.
00:21:36
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:21:39
Speaker
Which is kind of terrifying.
00:21:40
Speaker
And I do, like I often close my submissions for a couple of months a year, just so that I can honour a reasonable response time, because I know authors find it so stressful to sit in people's inboxes, never hearing back.
00:21:56
Speaker
So I really try and honour that.
00:21:59
Speaker
And at LBA, we say three months for a response.
00:22:02
Speaker
So that's kind of the longest I would
00:22:04
Speaker
let something sit there.
00:22:06
Speaker
But sometimes it's just, it's just too many.
00:22:08
Speaker
I'm only one woman.
00:22:10
Speaker
I only have one pair of eyes and a lot of other things going on.
00:22:13
Speaker
So sometimes that's the thing that has to give, but everyone I've signed this year, I think that's true.
00:22:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:20
Speaker
Everyone I've signed this year has been from the quote unquote slush pile.
00:22:23
Speaker
So it's still very much a route to agents and a route to market.
00:22:29
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, a hundred percent.
00:22:31
Speaker
When you talk about, just specifically on the things you said you don't represent, literary got that, sure.
00:22:41
Speaker
When you say you don't represent sci-fi and saga, when you say saga, you mean something where it's going to be like a three book epic, a five book or a seven book kind of thing?
00:22:53
Speaker
Oh, no, actually, I meant for projects which are like romantic saga.
00:22:59
Speaker
It's a very specific genre, which tends to be broad strokes, like women doing chivalrous things during World War II.
00:23:08
Speaker
It's a huge genre, but it is a very specific area of the market and not something that I have been hugely involved with.
00:23:17
Speaker
So I wouldn't feel like I would be the right person to...
00:23:20
Speaker
to take on a saga, but I'm pretty sure Lena, as in the RNA finalist, represents saga.
00:23:28
Speaker
So there are lots of agents out there, particularly within the romantic novelist community, who do work on that sort of project.
00:23:35
Speaker
And I love historical fiction, but I tend to non-war fiction more.
00:23:44
Speaker
And that doesn't cross over with the saga space.
00:23:47
Speaker
Oh, I didn't realise saga was, in my head, saga is like fantasy saga, right?
00:23:52
Speaker
Fantasy or like sci-fi space opera or even just like, is it Pillars of the Earth?
00:23:58
Speaker
The like historical fiction kind of saga stuff?
00:24:00
Speaker
Oh, yes.
00:24:02
Speaker
I mean, to be honest, I would also not be the right fit for that just because it's too long.
00:24:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:09
Speaker
And you also said you don't represent sci-fi.
00:24:11
Speaker
Is that like a blanket science fiction done or is it, do you mean more like hard sci-fi?
00:24:17
Speaker
It's pretty blanket for me.
00:24:19
Speaker
I just don't really get it.
00:24:22
Speaker
Having said that, I also never thought I would be a fantasy agent and here I am.
00:24:30
Speaker
But I'm very much like not a genre reader in those spaces.
00:24:36
Speaker
I sort of never have been.
00:24:37
Speaker
So
00:24:38
Speaker
while it's really exciting that fantasy and sci-fi have been much more, I don't know, like much more- Democratised kind of?
00:24:45
Speaker
Democratised, yes.
00:24:46
Speaker
And there is a broader market appetite for those genres, which is really exciting.
00:24:53
Speaker
But I'm the reader who needs plot and character in those other worlds more than the world building and the history of the genre, if that makes sense.
00:25:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:05
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:25:05
Speaker
That makes perfect sense because as you say that they've really changed.
00:25:09
Speaker
Fantasy and sci-fi have become this kind of thing where it's not the main thing in a lot of books now.
00:25:15
Speaker
It's like, oh, this is the story happens to be set in a fantasy world with something like, I can't remember what it's called, Legends and Lattes.
00:25:24
Speaker
I don't know if you've read that or heard that.
00:25:27
Speaker
which is just about someone who starts a coffee shop in the middle of town.
00:25:30
Speaker
It's all about setting up a coffee shop and making it work and stuff.
00:25:33
Speaker
It happens to be set in a classic fantasy world, but that's not what the story and the characters are about.
00:25:40
Speaker
It's about a very kind of relatable and realistic, even quotes realistic thing.
00:25:47
Speaker
realistic but with elves yeah exactly with elves and orcs and stuff but like they're just making up they're not doing the classic like out to slay dragons to save some royal family yes um and within the industry we tend to call that cozy fantasy at the moment yes yeah yeah which definitely is having a moment not cozy sci-fi though is that a thing
00:26:11
Speaker
Probably.
00:26:11
Speaker
I mean, people talk about Becky Chambers as sort of doing cozy sci-fi.
00:26:16
Speaker
I must confess I've never read any Becky Chambers, but I know lots of people who are absolutely obsessed with her books.
00:26:23
Speaker
So, I mean, never say never.
00:26:25
Speaker
I just don't tend to vibe with robots.
00:26:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:26:29
Speaker
So that's the main issue.
00:26:31
Speaker
What if it was like a romance just set on the International Space Station with a bit of slightly futuristic sci-fi stuff?
00:26:41
Speaker
If it was really romance led, maybe, but I also hate space.
00:26:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:26:50
Speaker
That's fine.
00:26:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:26:52
Speaker
Awesome.
00:26:53
Speaker
Well, I think that, that clears things up and, and I think people now know exactly not what to send you.
00:26:58
Speaker
I don't know.
00:27:01
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's definitely helpful because otherwise you're pretty eclectic and you are open to stuff.
00:27:05
Speaker
And like you say, you didn't ever expect to represent fantasy.
00:27:08
Speaker
So maybe someone will crack sci-fi for you.
00:27:12
Speaker
But really think carefully, anyone listening, if you're thinking about subbing sci-fi to Hannah.
00:27:16
Speaker
Don't call it sci-fi.
00:27:20
Speaker
Don't let her know.
00:27:21
Speaker
Don't put it in the first three chapters.
00:27:23
Speaker
You'll be fine.
00:27:24
Speaker
But also kind of general tip, don't try and trick agents.
00:27:27
Speaker
Like they generally know what they want.
00:27:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:31
Speaker
Because even if you manage to trick with the submission, you'll send the full manuscript and they'll be like, what on earth?
00:27:38
Speaker
This is not what I signed up for.
00:27:40
Speaker
It's got space in it.
00:27:41
Speaker
I don't want this.
00:27:42
Speaker
Where did these aliens come from?
00:27:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:46
Speaker
Awesome.
00:27:46
Speaker
Well, you already covered it.
00:27:48
Speaker
I was going to ask what you were looking for, but you very much covered
Emerging Trends in Romance
00:27:51
Speaker
that.
00:27:51
Speaker
I guess slightly on from that, curious to know if you, with your experience, kind of your unique kind of perspective on the industry, do you think there's any specific settings, tropes, genres that are building momentum at the moment to maybe become a big trend in the next year or so?
00:28:10
Speaker
Great question.
00:28:13
Speaker
To be honest, I think the same things this year are true from last year.
00:28:17
Speaker
I know we talked about this before.
00:28:19
Speaker
Romance and romanticcy are not abating at all.
00:28:23
Speaker
There's still a huge appetite for that, particularly from...
00:28:31
Speaker
Particularly Formula One romance.
00:28:33
Speaker
And I could not be less interested in Formula One, I'm going to tell you.
00:28:38
Speaker
But the sports romance thing, I think is really hot right now.
00:28:42
Speaker
And there are a lot in the pipeline that sound really exciting.
00:28:46
Speaker
So I think that sort of like tropey romance in a sports setting, basically, very much a la mode.
00:28:53
Speaker
Is that like a fusion of, because my, I've not read many sports things.
00:29:00
Speaker
Is that like a fusion of my knowledge being of sports, kind of motivational sports movies and television shows, which I do love, things like Friday Night Lights and stuff.
00:29:09
Speaker
Is that kind of a fusion of that and romance just for ultimate feel good reading?
00:29:13
Speaker
Maybe, but I think mostly, and I would actually, I would love to see more queer romances in this space because it does tend to be like,
00:29:22
Speaker
ooh, the hot American football player.
00:29:25
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:27
Speaker
And like, that's great, fine.
00:29:28
Speaker
But I think there are other ways to play with that genre, perhaps with queer protagonists.
00:29:34
Speaker
That could be really exciting.
00:29:36
Speaker
I've had my eye on a couple in the YA space.
00:29:39
Speaker
So hopefully that will also come into the adult space.
00:29:42
Speaker
But I think it's a really thriving area of the market, which is very exciting.
00:29:48
Speaker
And particularly as someone who is...
00:29:51
Speaker
very invested in the romance genre as a reader, as well as, as a professional.
00:29:56
Speaker
It's, it's really cool to see that there's like more and more an offer and really something for everyone.
00:30:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:03
Speaker
Romance, I've seen that more than, I think, maybe fantasy because I think Game of Thrones made fantasy very mainstream popular.
00:30:11
Speaker
And now you get all sorts of fantasy from like cozy, which is a new kind of very getting a big as a genre to like, there's a kind of whole spectrum of it.
00:30:20
Speaker
But romance really has become so inclusive.
00:30:23
Speaker
There is like romance for everyone now, it feels like.
00:30:26
Speaker
Yes.
00:30:27
Speaker
And of course, there's still work to be done.
00:30:29
Speaker
Like, certainly the biggest romances don't tend to be the most diverse, which is not the best.
00:30:37
Speaker
And I think a lot of people have done research and sort of think pieces on how TikTok really pushes certain books that tend to be very straight and white and able-bodied, etc.
00:30:51
Speaker
But there's always been
00:30:54
Speaker
real great moves to inclusive stories in the indie publishing sphere in romance and that is showing in Tradpub at the moment so I'm hoping that it's still gonna like keep trending that way so there will be love stories for all because that's that's really what I think we should have on the market is love stories for all.
Valuing Non-Romantic Relationships in Stories
00:31:19
Speaker
Yeah, because it's one of the single most relatable themes that can be in any story, I think.
00:31:26
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:31:27
Speaker
And also I think...
00:31:29
Speaker
because there's so much romance out there, there's also a space for books which are about relationships, but that aren't romantic relationships.
00:31:38
Speaker
I think I'd love to see more, I guess, like family relationships or friend relationships given the same weight as romantic relationships.
00:31:48
Speaker
I mean, obviously it wouldn't be in the romance space, but thematically, I do think those are, those are really interesting things always to push on.
00:31:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's actually, I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure that was a direction that Disney started going in a while ago.
00:32:04
Speaker
They started with Frozen, where the whole thing was like a subversion, where it wasn't actually the romantic interest, the romantic relationship wasn't the true love, it was her and her sister.
00:32:17
Speaker
I feel like that's a light bulb moment for me.
00:32:19
Speaker
I'm like, of course, of course Frozen will surprise me.
00:32:22
Speaker
Listen, something about sisters, I'm obsessed.
00:32:25
Speaker
I have a sister, so that probably is why.
00:32:27
Speaker
But, yeah, I love those either family or found family stories where...
00:32:35
Speaker
your soulmate isn't necessarily your romantic partner.
00:32:39
Speaker
And that's also, I guess, the diversity of stories, right?
00:32:43
Speaker
It's not just one sort of experience that is the right one.
00:32:49
Speaker
Everyone has different experiences, but everyone has relationships in some
Desert Island Book Choices
00:32:55
Speaker
form.
00:32:55
Speaker
Yeah, true.
00:32:57
Speaker
And that brings us neatly to the end of the episode where normally
00:33:01
Speaker
I would ask what book you would take with you to the desert island.
00:33:07
Speaker
But you've been on the show before, you have given an answer.
00:33:10
Speaker
You went with The Tenant of Wildfell Hall by Anne Bronte.
00:33:17
Speaker
Would that still be your choice?
00:33:20
Speaker
it would still be my choice.
00:33:21
Speaker
And I think last time I said, that's still my choice, caveat, otherwise it would be Eligible by Kirsten Sittenfeld.
00:33:28
Speaker
That's still true.
00:33:29
Speaker
Those would still be the books.
00:33:31
Speaker
Wow.
00:33:32
Speaker
I reread Eligible this year.
00:33:33
Speaker
I haven't reread Tenant this year.
00:33:34
Speaker
Maybe I should.
00:33:35
Speaker
I think you said the same thing last year.
00:33:37
Speaker
Oh my goodness.
00:33:38
Speaker
Well, it's been two years in a row that I haven't read it.
00:33:40
Speaker
So we definitely should reread it.
00:33:42
Speaker
It's time to reread.
00:33:43
Speaker
Maybe that'll be my Christmas treat.
00:33:46
Speaker
Oh, that'd be nice.
00:33:47
Speaker
Always good to go back to an old favourite.
00:33:50
Speaker
Well, I'm very impressed with your conviction at keeping that same first and second choice as your books over the years.
Closing Remarks and Upcoming Awards
00:34:00
Speaker
I am far more fickle than you with my favourites.
00:34:03
Speaker
I have a lot of favourites, but I think the real top tier ones are difficult to displace.
00:34:08
Speaker
But
00:34:09
Speaker
You never know, maybe year number four will be the one and I'll have a surprising answer next year.
00:34:14
Speaker
We'll see.
00:34:14
Speaker
We'll see.
00:34:15
Speaker
We'll check in next year and find out.
00:34:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:18
Speaker
Amazing.
00:34:18
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, Hannah, for coming back on the podcast, sharing all of your knowledge and experience that you've got through the years of publishing and giving a sort of glimpse behind the curtain and...
00:34:31
Speaker
Good luck with the R&A Awards, which as of recording this is just over a week away.
00:34:37
Speaker
Win or lose, I'm sure it'll be a wonderful evening.
00:34:40
Speaker
Everyone over there is so lovely and brilliant.
00:34:43
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:34:44
Speaker
I'm really looking forward to it.
00:34:46
Speaker
And thank you so much for your kind words.
00:34:48
Speaker
It's been wonderful to have another chat on this podcast.
00:34:51
Speaker
Always a pleasure.
00:34:52
Speaker
And for anyone listening, you can keep up with Hannah on Twitter at Hans Schofield.
00:34:59
Speaker
That's H-A-N-N-S-C-H-O-F-I-E-L-D.
00:35:04
Speaker
And if you're thinking about querying Hannah or any of the other agents at LBA, head over to lbabooks.com where you'll find all of the submission guides as well as a recap of what each agent is interested in and looking for, etc, etc.
00:35:19
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss an episode of this podcast, follow along on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook.
00:35:24
Speaker
You can support the show on Patreon and for more Bookish Chat, check out my other podcast, The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes.
00:35:30
Speaker
Thanks again to Hannah and thanks to everyone listening.
00:35:32
Speaker
We'll catch you on the next episode.