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S3.E17: Last Rites for The Conjuring Franchise w/ @facethemovies
79 Plays2 months ago
🎬 The Conjuring: Last Rites (2025) – Livestream Review The Warrens return one last time… but is it a triumphant finale or a tired whimper? Tonight, Tim and Johnathan are joined by GC from Face the Movies to break down The Conjuring: Last Rites in a livestream! This episode is a pseudo-sequel to the Cinema Rewind collab where Tim joined GC and Jordan to revisit the original Conjuring—a film that redefined modern horror. Now we’re asking: 👻 How far has this franchise fallen? 🎥 Is Last Rites worth your time at the cinema? 💀 Has the Conjuring Universe lost its soul—or does it still have some scares left? We’ll dive into the story, scares, acting, and direction while debating if this final chapter cements The Conjuring as horror royalty—or closes the book on a once-great franchise with a whimper. ✨ Be part of the conversation! Submit your own score here: 👉 https://tr.ee/iGtZ-DpOO6 ⚡ Follow our amazing guests:GC – Face the Movies: https://www.youtube.com/@Facethemovies ⸻ 📚 Want more horror? Check out our books on Amazon: 👉 https://a.co/d/bUtniBd 🎧 Check out our friends at Zencastr and get 30% off your first 3 months of Zencastr Pro: 👉 https://zen.ai/theaveragereviews 📖 Enjoy $5.00 off your first purchase when you use Tim Umpleby’s code “TIMOTHYREADS” at checkout: 👉 https://pangobooks.com/TIMOTHYREADS
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Transcript
Impact of The Conjuring on Horror
00:00:32
Speaker
Welcome back to the Dread broadcast. Tonight, we're diving into The Conjuring Last Rites, the supposed final chapter in one of the one of horror's most influential modern franchises.
00:00:47
Speaker
Yeah, love it or hate it, you can't deny the impact The Conjuring has had over the last decade. James Wan's original film in 2013 redefined mainstream horror, tight, atmospheric, and grounded in a based-on-a-true-story hook that actually worked.
Ed and Lorraine Warren's Pop Culture Icon Status
00:01:01
Speaker
It didn't just scare audiences, it gave them a franchise to rally behind. And at the center of it all were Ed and Lorraine Warren, real-life paranormal investigators who became pop culture icons overnight.
Expansion of The Conjuring Universe
00:01:13
Speaker
Exactly. Before The Conjuring, most mainstream horror had leaned heavily into remakes, found footage, or extreme gore. Then Juan comes in with his haunted house story rooted in old school tension.
00:01:28
Speaker
Creaks in the floor, shadows in the corner, the dreaded clap scene, and suddenly horror felt scary and classy again. And it wasn't just a one-off.
00:01:40
Speaker
The success of that movie birthed an entire Conjuring universe. You've got Annabelle, The Nun, The Curse of La Llorona. Say what you will about the spinoffs, but they've been boxed off as monsters. Annabelle Creation alone pulled in over $300 million on $15 million dollars budget.
Significance of 'Last Rites' for the Warrens
00:01:56
Speaker
Yeah, this thing became the closest horror has ever had to its own Marvel-style universe, and Juan and the Warrens were the glue holding it all together.
00:02:07
Speaker
Whenever Ed and Lorraine showed up, it felt like the main event. Which is why this movie is such a big deal. Last Rites is being billed as the swan song for Ed and Lorraine on the big screen. This is supposedly the final chapter for their story, the closing bookend to a franchise that's been haunting theaters for more than a decade.
00:02:25
Speaker
But here's the question. Does it hold up? Is Last Rites a fitting finale to one of the most successful horror franchises of all time? Or is it the weakest link in a universe that started with a bang, but has maybe overstayed its welcome?
00:02:43
Speaker
And joining us tonight to figure that out is a familiar face or voice, depending on how you've tuned in before.
Guest Reviewer Introduction
00:02:48
Speaker
Please welcome our special guest GC from at face, the movies you've heard him on the dread broadcast before, but this is the first time you're seeing him join us live for one of these reviews.
00:02:58
Speaker
What's up guys. Thank you for having me. Uh, it's my, my first time on the live second time back rating a movie. So, so damn excited to be here and especially talking about the conjuring last rights. I mean,
00:03:10
Speaker
man, it's been a hell of a journey watching these films and exploring them. And I know last week we did that live with you, Tim, talking about the first conjuring. So it's it comes full circle last week, the first conjuring and then today coming into the very end.
00:03:25
Speaker
Yeah. So you just stole my next line. That's okay, though.
00:03:31
Speaker
ah Say it anyway, because I can't say it as good as you. I had no idea. i was about to say this. But yeah, we recorded with GC before and that's coming up in 13 nights of Halloween. So you'll see that one. But this is his first time on a live GC. We're stoked to have you back.
00:03:47
Speaker
ah This feels like a full circle moment, especially since the last time we all teamed up. We talked about the original conjuring. So. It's only right that we bring you in to talk about last rights.
00:04:01
Speaker
So let's get in. We'll start breaking apart the score and where we stand on this film.
Plot Overview: The Conjuring: Last Rites
00:04:09
Speaker
So the story I'm just going to get right into it.
00:04:12
Speaker
ah Normally, going to let you know, normally we do not do spoilers for films that are still in theaters, but this is a tough one to I would say this is tough more so than weapons is to talk to avoid spoilers because this is the final film.
00:04:32
Speaker
You got to talk about how it wraps up to appropriately do it justice. So the story of this one We kick off with our first case, young Ed and Lorraine, played by different actors.
00:04:47
Speaker
Haunted mirror story. i Lorraine gets her superpowers. We see stuff happen. Fast forward years later, one of the parallels that I really liked in this story was after just watching The Conjuring, we see them giving their lecture to a hall full of people in the first movie.
Warrens' Credibility Over Time
00:05:08
Speaker
They're doing one of their ghost lectures. The what what is that called? It's a university lecture hall. Yeah. Lecture hall. like pat Like a presentation or something. Yeah.
00:05:20
Speaker
It's packed. This movie there, we get to them again and they're doing it to a nearly empty room of kids who just kind of think it's all a big joke.
00:05:31
Speaker
So I did kind of like that parallel, like wrapping it up there at the end of their career. They're not taken as seriously by the masses anymore, so on.
00:05:42
Speaker
But we see that is clear there at the end. His heart has an issue. He can't really do these investigations anymore. We saw that from The Devil Made Me Do It. i Long story short, another their haunting starts happening at a house in Pennsylvania.
00:05:59
Speaker
They end up getting involved and it ends up being the mirror from their very first case, the night that their daughter was born. That same mirror appears at this house and is haunting them again.
00:06:11
Speaker
And this is their final investigation. So that is the short version of what's going on in this film.
Personal Reactions to the Film
00:06:20
Speaker
So where do we stand?
00:06:22
Speaker
We can dive into it more on story elements that we like. Where rare are you guys at on story? What stood out to you on this one?
00:06:35
Speaker
Go ahead, you're our guest. Oh, man. i'll say We'll say it, but I'll go last. Right. Right at six, then. So, um, so so, we're just, we're doing non-spoiler, right? Oh, oh, um am I allowed to? No, we're gonna go full spoiler for this. Just go full spoiler. Cause I gotta talk about it.
00:06:52
Speaker
I know. I know I'm fighting for my life to not like just like, just, if you don't want it spoiled leave now. yeah guys because we're gonna spoil the hell out of it um but so for me i think I loved Tim I mean you hit the nail on the head as far as for the start of it it's fantastic to start this movie with them you anticipating like a full room of students like watching the lecture and everything and then for it to it kind of show modern times right because when we meet the warrens back in the first conjuring everything's different this is pretty new um it's it's it's just something where everybody's fascinated by it and yeah obviously you've seen them younger and everything you see more pep in their step but with this one you could you could tell they've been beat down worn out already no pun intended
00:07:42
Speaker
But then you see that the room where it's like four or five students and obviously out of the four or five, one of them a daughter and then the other three are just kind of making fun. So it goes to show how times have changed, especially when they're talking about Ghostbusters and and all these modern movies. It's like, oh, wow, everything is different.
00:08:01
Speaker
But with that being said, I think the story was good. um it was It was interesting because to me, this movie felt like it wasn't so much about the the family.
00:08:12
Speaker
and i mean not like it was more about the warrens that's what it felt like like this was a tribute to them um there was a there was certain key moments in this film what just one in particular that actually gave me goosebumps and actually like made my eyes water a little bit and that was in the very beginning of the movie but man i mean and there was nothing special i don't think there was any razzle dazzle for me which which part there were a couple parts i will admit there were a couple parts that made my eyes water a little bit in this film yeah so which which part got to you i think for me
Themes of Aging and Legacy
00:08:44
Speaker
the main part was the baby being born yeah like dude stuff yeah the the strike the actors that played um ed and lorraine the young the young version of them dude phenomenal job they were like good Yeah, they did so good. They looked like them. They sat like they just they knocked it out out of the park.
00:09:04
Speaker
But that scene literally when that baby starts crying, I just got goosebumps and it was so freaking dude like man, those actors conveyed like a certain type of pain that just it's hard to really put on screen and they oh they did it.
00:09:20
Speaker
Yeah, like I felt it. I felt like i was like, oh, thank God. Okay, the baby's okay. I agree. But besides that one, I think it was that moment where where Ed was talking about how he he gives the keys to the fiance like in the room and he's just kind of talking. He was talking about how he was feeling older.
00:09:42
Speaker
um not in that particular scene but there was another scene where he was talking about he's like oh yeah like I'm just he didn't want to admit that they're getting older because he didn't want to admit about his heart getting weaker and all that stuff and um that was so relatable to me hitting like my late 30s and I was just like man like I just it really conveyed to me and I mean but yeah I mean as far as for that that was cool but It wasn't no bells and whistles. I felt like this, the movie was more of wrapping it up and just giving them that good you know going away thing. But you could tell by the story that it's already there's, there's no much strength left in the conjuring universe.
00:10:19
Speaker
Like they barely had enough for this. There was nothing original really. It felt kind of like Oculus, um, or the movie mirrors, but at the same time, it was just a a family just retiring.
00:10:30
Speaker
That's kind of what it was. So before we let Jonathan go, Jonathan marathoned all of the movies for this one. So he night he's got a fresh perspective.
00:10:41
Speaker
i GC hit on, and I don't know if I've said it before on the channel. I feel like I have to have, um like my biggest fear, and people will like, I don't have a problem admitting this when people ask this question.
00:10:56
Speaker
ah My biggest fear is growing old, you know? And I know that's like, for some people, like, getting older is a beautiful thing and i'm like yes it is it's also a frightening thing it's also a terrifying thing both can be true so seeing things like that in movies you know people the actors that i've grown up with 10 years ago watching ed and lorraine and watching them now like retirement and yeah i know their actors are not actually 60 whatever now but it's still that idea that like time is passing for us too. And it's sad.
00:11:33
Speaker
So that that's a great point you brought up before I give my full um scathing remarks. I'll let Jonathan's Jonathan's impression of this after just binging the previous three, none of the extended movies, hopefully.
00:11:51
Speaker
No, no, I haven't watched any like the the Annabelle or the nun La La Rona. I haven't watched any of those. ah Well, I think I saw the first Annabelle, but just the core kind of whatever. Okay, just the core conjuring.
00:12:04
Speaker
Yeah, so I watched all
Binge-Watching Experience
00:12:05
Speaker
those just all last night, like from like 730 on until like 2am. I watched all three of those and then the new conjuring earlier today.
00:12:15
Speaker
and um It's a good story. I like it. But like GC said, there's nothing to razzle dazzle about. It's very formulaic. As with the other three, you've got a family in distress. You've got your paranormal investigators who come in to try and help save the day.
00:12:30
Speaker
It's just with this one there is more of an unwillingness to do this because of the fear of that the aging and and having had those heart attacks before. and how dangerous this can be and wanting to step back from that.
00:12:44
Speaker
That's about the only part that really gets anything extra original. Aside from the fact that now that you've seen the origins from that first case and how this thing has been waiting so long to finally get Judy, you know, and that that that pursuit and that waiting and how we've got this also sense of an evil entity controlling other spirits like you do in the what was the second one to yeah to make bad things happen.
00:13:10
Speaker
That's a little interesting, but still not exactly original because you still got that kind of carryover concept. But I do like the story. I thought it was really great.
Emotional Arcs and Family Acceptance
00:13:19
Speaker
um But yeah, mean, it's nice to see that kind of like cherry on the top ending to it, especially at the end where, you know, you've got Tony and just like throws in the keys say, hey, welcome to the family, you know, kind of a deal, you know. It's like, okay, all right.
00:13:34
Speaker
You know, they're they're accepting that that role of needing to step back in that aging process and, you know. just having to move on with their lives and then their daughter do their thing and letting their kid be an adult. So yeah there's a lot to process in there when it comes to that old aging thing like you guys are talking about.
00:13:49
Speaker
I I teared up at the wedding. Not going to lie. I teared up at the wedding when we see big spoiler when we see the families they have saved from the previous movies.
00:14:03
Speaker
That was an awesome touch. Yes, I we see them at the wedding and I was like, oh, that's so good. And and James Wan, dude. Yeah, James Wan's in there too.
00:14:13
Speaker
yeah like it it it was just such a full circle moment, man. and and i be And I do want to touch one more time on like the aging thing because I was talking about this today with my girlfriend. And seeing this movie, it made me feel like seen seeing James Wan at the end there was such one of those, is like the guy that started it.
00:14:32
Speaker
And he's there at the very end. It just, it made me feel so much older because...
James Wan's Influence and Nostalgia
00:14:38
Speaker
Man, like I mean, we come from a generation. It's safe to say that all three of us were around that. We come from around the same age, at the same time.
00:14:46
Speaker
And for us, like there's not going to be James Wan's like there was for for us. There is no more action stars, no more comedians like how we had growing up.
00:14:57
Speaker
Like now we've seen the industry change where it's more about the amount of followers that you have, the more influence that you have instead of the the sheer ability to actually move people on screen and just having that talent.
00:15:09
Speaker
um But to see this movie, it was just saying goodbye to this horror legacy that he created. and it was just it was just incredible like that what that was incredible it was sad because we felt like especially seeing all those families there man like it it made me feel like damn like i mean call it what you want it and if you know if you want to say that that these people you know they were pulling like wool over our eyes or whatever the case may be but i mean they somehow did help people um or give them some sort of comfort. And to kind of see that even in the movie was just, it was nice. It's like, you don't really you don't really think when they say a thousand cases, but then you actually see all these people in a room and you're like, wow, all these people were in distress. And regardless if they it it was real or not, these people showed up for them.
00:15:55
Speaker
And it was just, it was a nice moment. yeah You got to appreciate the fact that this is based off of real people, even though there's some embellishment for dramatization. And oh yeah the fact that you get to see even in all the films and then how they do it the same kind of wrapping it up at the end where you see the comparison of actual pictures of the real people and these incidents in the reports and everything.
00:16:20
Speaker
and kind of like the side by sides of the same shots of the people from the movies. i think it was a wonderful comparison. That's a really nice special touch to that, you know? Yeah. So I'll start with my negatives and then I'll
Critique of Ghost Story Elements
00:16:32
Speaker
get to my positives. so um My negatives of the story but is that the ghost haunted house story in this movie is terrible.
00:16:42
Speaker
That's it's terrible. I can't. I'm sorry. i hated it It copies a little bit from the first. It does. It does. Spirits ah in the land of that place. Yeah. Kind of thing.
00:16:55
Speaker
I was actually okay at the beginning. I thought we were going to have a more traditional story. there were really no new ideas in the scares there was nothing new it was bloodier than any of the previous conjuring movies that's for sure so that you could say that was a new element to it but it didn't really do anything for me in the scare department and i thought the way they wrapped this ghost story up was just silly as could be just like everybody put your hands on the mirror and then somehow like
00:17:32
Speaker
What? It was lazy. yeah It was so lazy. The whole ghost element of this. It makes sense how it drove it out. No. And we also talked about like this demon was their very first case and the very last case.
00:17:47
Speaker
Also clearly exaggerated embellished for the film. That's not the true story, ah which also just brought Judy into all of it. And it just felt horrible.
00:18:00
Speaker
forced the ghost elements of this. It is by far, I think my least favorite ghost story of the Conjuring. I think I'd rather take the Devil Made Me Do It because that had an interesting premise.
00:18:14
Speaker
And it had a cool. Yeah, it that one was that one was interesting compared to this ghost story. What this movie does really well. So that's my negatives. The ghost elements of this movie are a snooze fest. I was disappointed.
00:18:31
Speaker
What I ended up liking a lot about this movie was the way they treated Ed and Lorraine in the family. And we've kind of we've kind of talked on that. Seeing them at the end of their career, I felt like it gave them beautiful family moments. I choked up when the son is asking for permission to marry Judy.
00:18:48
Speaker
I'm like, this is a beautiful moment.
00:18:52
Speaker
what Like they're moving, leaving this behind and they're going to be grandparents and i love it. And then that, the wedding at the end, there was another scene ah do not remember.
00:19:05
Speaker
um But like those moments, those family moments with the Warrens are what made this movie worth seeing, in my opinion.
Film's Appeal to Fans
00:19:16
Speaker
I think this movie is we're seeing for longtime fans of The Conjuring just to see how they wrap up the story of Ed and Lorraine and the family. that That's that's my thought. That was great.
00:19:28
Speaker
I would almost rather, in all honesty, as rough as it is to say this, I would almost rather have an hour long just them wrapping everything up, seeing where they end up epilogue than that rather rough ghost story I don't know what Annabelle was doing there they didn't explain what this demon that's overseeing everything why does this demon want Judy exactly why like it's just attached to the mirror it's there there was a whole lot of loose ends in this cursed object story that was disappointing uh the other things uh just talking about the original conjuring
00:20:12
Speaker
We knew in the original Conjuring, the kids' names. We knew mom and dad's name. We knew about their relationship together. We knew what dad did for a living. He was a truck driver. We knew he was gone for periods of time.
00:20:26
Speaker
This family, i guess this is more for script. This family, we knew next to nothing about, and we didn't really learn anything about them. We didn't really care about them. We got the key elements of the scares, and then we moved on.
00:20:42
Speaker
It was just like a bunch of haunted things happening and next step. So I guess for a story, what I have to give, if we can jump into the scores now. So
Individual Film Scores
00:20:53
Speaker
my score for the story is for Ed and Lorraine. And this is taking into account the movie Ed and Lorraine, not the real life Ed and Lorraine, who are controversial figures, who many believe They scammed people.
00:21:08
Speaker
Many believe they were genuine, but we're not going to get into that. We're talking about the movie versions. So what they did in the movies I thought was beautiful. The rest of the movie, I could take it or leave it.
00:21:19
Speaker
I am at a three on the story.
00:21:22
Speaker
same i am a three as well yeah yeah i it was hard man because on and i this might be controversial but i feel like if if they would have gave me this movie of just and the aftermath of all all these cases for and lorraine i rather had taken it more as a movie like that than them calling it a horror movie yeah because even though it had i think maybe two moments that kind of creeps me out briefly like very briefly um and let's just It was just boring as far as for the like the the horror aspect of it.
00:21:58
Speaker
um i feel like the the guy with the axe, the the three demons, um not demons, but the three ghosts that were being puppeted by this demon that had no name, they were just kind of boring. like it was just He just seemed like a like an axe murderer.
00:22:11
Speaker
yeah compared to the other ghosts or demons um the whole mirror thing i felt like it was cheesy especially towards the end where it just starts like starts spinning and um mean i thought it was going to spin into a demon yeah no exactly i thought i thought something was going to happen with that um so i mean just i just wish they would have just focused on maybe the warrens and not called it like not not made it seem like it was going to focus on the family and the haunting because that's not this was more of a of a touching type moving yeah a movie it was more of a inspirational family type movie where they come together and they put their hands and it's all kumbaya and they get rid of the demon with the power of love that's exactly how it ended yeah um so i'm giving it a three i mean long story long giving it a three
00:23:04
Speaker
jonathan you gave your score Yeah, I said it was a three. oh Okay. All right. Well, then let's go into the characters and their arc. And this was another one that I had to step back and I'm like, am i I'm not going to grade the arc of Ed and Lorraine from the first movie to this one. I'm going to have to look at this movie and there's, there's a nice little arc for them in this movie. It's not tremendous.
00:23:31
Speaker
But we have them really reluctant, really hesitant at the beginning, and they they're that way all the way through. But the moment that stood out in spoiler territory again ah for the arc, this was the culmination of their arc.
00:23:45
Speaker
is when we see the flashbacks of Lorraine telling Judy ah to do her little rhyme, which I thought was ridiculous. um Do do the little rhyme and tell it you're you're not real. You don't exist or something.
00:23:59
Speaker
And then at the end, Lorraine's like, no, that's not right. Face it. Turn around and face it. Stare it down. I'm like, it's cheesy. OK, it's cheesy, but is.
00:24:11
Speaker
is It is an arc for me. That is an arc because i was sitting there when she was telling little little ah Judy what to do. I was like, i don't think this is what Lorraine would actually tell their child to do.
00:24:27
Speaker
Like you have to assert your dominance over these things with any, anything we know from demon possession movies is that you have to, you can't give it power. So you have to, you have no power over me. Go away. Not like you're not real. Like that's, that's not the case.
Emotional Family Moments
00:24:45
Speaker
So it rubbed me a little bit wrong, but I did like seeing that arc at the end when Lorraine's like, you know what? No, we have to stand and face this. Yeah. so i i did like that a little bit but i also got taken just the nice wrap up the family just that happy family time we get a wedding, we see them, she has that, that vision of their future of having grandchildren and then great grandchildren. I was like, Yeah, that's good.
00:25:12
Speaker
That's good. Oh, that was beautiful. That was beautiful. It's very touchy. Like it was it was, again, her seeing it as a vision, a little bit cheesy, but I'm gonna take I'm gonna take it. I took it.
00:25:25
Speaker
It was it made me tear up a little bit. I was happy with that element. that's all I have. They felt like family, man. I mean, that's what I think that's what we felt. Cause I never feel in any of the conjuring movies. I've never felt that type of emotion.
00:25:41
Speaker
I'm like, i always wanted the good people to survive the demons to be vanquished and all that. But with this movie, it actually made me feel like if I was watching something more dramatic, um, I think for the character arc itself,
00:25:55
Speaker
um it to me it was okay um for Lorraine's thing I could understand her almost losing her baby once or did lose her baby for over a minute in the beginning her being afraid and not wanting her her daughter to venture into that realm of confronting these demons and just wanting her as far away as possible But I think the only arc to me that really stood out was Ed's.
00:26:19
Speaker
And it went from in the beginning of the movie where you see Ed kind of like feeling a little bit defeated because times are changing, but still fighting it all the way to where he's at the doctor's appointment and a doctor's like, hey, cut the shit like that. And he's like, you cannot afford to have another heart attack. And throughout the movie, you start seeing Ed taking it more serious.
00:26:39
Speaker
all the way to the point where even Judy's fiance, you see Ed not wanting to accept that his baby girl has grown up yeah and not wanting to accept the fiance. And you see that arc between the, the father and the, and the, and the fiance,
00:26:56
Speaker
almost like switch roles because at the very end when you see the fiance walking around the room and he looks at Annabelle and he just walks around like nothing is phasing him and you see Ed's face and that's when he realized he's going to take over my job I'm protecting Judy.
00:27:13
Speaker
Yeah. I'm no longer protecting my daughter now. It's up to him. And now, and that's where he throws them the keys. He's like, you're the man of the house now, pretty much. Um, so you're the warden now. And I thought that arc was phenomenal, but everything else was just the way you talk about it. I'm, I'm tearing up now. That was good. I, I, You seen it here first, guys.
00:27:33
Speaker
Tim Tear Up a lot. Tim Crying live stream. You're right. No, that was good. No, because I didn't think about it that way. But definitely his reluctance, like not even remembering the guy's name at first. And then Tommy. It's like you use Tony.
00:27:46
Speaker
Yeah. And then just that reluctance of like, yeah, it's also a dad watching his baby girl grow up and leave the house. And yeah, that It i know it was i was awesome. Like wait the the scene where he's helping him fix the motorcycle and they were having that
Family Dynamics and Support
00:28:03
Speaker
bonding. Like there was so many scenes. It was like four to five key scenes where you see Ed starting to see Tony more as a like as a good dude instead of just fighting him because he fought so hard within himself to not give him a chance.
00:28:17
Speaker
And the guy kept proving himself no matter what. um And even with Ed fought to save him when his leg was pinned and the mirror was trying to kill him. And it was like sweeping his foot. That was yeah, that was pretty brutal. and Painful of you. Jeez.
00:28:32
Speaker
That was brutal. But yeah, and it had me, man. Like that was just that was that was very heartwarming. yeah like Yeah. Good points. Good points. Yeah. But it's it's also like when um when when they they get Judy back from the attic and they're trying to do CPR, Ed's like, i got
Father Gordon's Sacrifice
00:28:52
Speaker
it. But then he starts having his heart palpitations.
00:28:55
Speaker
and tells Tony to take over, you know, that that passing the baton, like, okay, i'm I'm starting to fail here. You need to step in, be that protector. He does his thing and it's awesome. And indeed it's kind of goofy though, because that part where they're working on the motorcycle, if you saw the first movie, Ed was helping that first family repair that car.
00:29:12
Speaker
bar He knows how to do this stuff, but like, oh, I didn't think to check the spark, you know, like. because he's getting older that's what it was because he's his memory is not what he used to be so it was kind of like was it that or was he giving tony a chance yeah but like so but the start of the movie it starts in like the early 60s when they have judy and then this takes place in like 81 and it's like okay so judy's like you know she's still young you know just barely an adult got this dude And like, so they got to be in like their mid to late 40s, you know, and I'm about to turn 42. It's like, bro, my brain's not working that bad. I'm not going to be forgetting shit like that. Like, come on.
00:29:50
Speaker
So it's he's a little little off in that part for it. But just just that sense of like Ed finally giving Tony a chance despite his his reluctance at the start and then fully accepting him at the end is great.
00:30:04
Speaker
yeah You do got to really appreciate that. And yes, it does feel like a family, you especially how like Judy lies to her mom in masks and tries to brush it off instead of just being straight up with her about what she's seeing and feeling. Even though mom kind of has a hint that's there. It's like, yeah, that's some family shit right there. You know? Yeah.
00:30:18
Speaker
But you got to appreciate the actual like the victim family in this too, man, because it's a big family. It's not just dad and mom and the kids. I got the grandparents involved in as well and how they're all getting beat up by this thing.
00:30:31
Speaker
yeah grandma got thrown down the stairs that was that was brutal when that light when that dinner table light slammed down that was intense man yeah that was cool I did like that part but yeah it's pretty much really it in character development you know like you guys already mentioned everything with Tony proving himself and uh with them you know Ed and Lorraine accepting their their aging part of it, but they get that sense of renewed kind of vigor though at the end, because after that incident, you know, it kind of like resurged people being interested when you see them giving another lecture at the end there and everyone actually looks intently focused instead of being mocked and being like, Oh, what about the Ghostbusters? You didn't get slimed. ha ha It's like, you know what Shut up, kid. This is real shit. You know, that's right don't be a dick.
00:31:19
Speaker
yeah So they get a little bit of justification at the end there by, you know getting that that group focus back, which is cool. Yeah, I agree. You guys made, you guys made good cases beyond what I saw.
Portrayal of the Haunted Family
00:31:31
Speaker
And actually i I came up a little bit because I do think what what's here is that family drama of the Warrens more so than the haunted family.
00:31:45
Speaker
I mean, They had stuff happen to him, but I didn't feel for any of them. I felt for Ed and Lorraine. This was their story. This is their story with Judy, Tony. And i actually came up a little bit. I gave it a four because there was a lot going on with the family that was good.
00:32:01
Speaker
I felt bad for Father Gordon, that poor man. Oh, yeah. Yeah. his His arc, too. I mean, remember how he wouldn't go to the houses and stuff with them?
00:32:12
Speaker
Like, he would always just, like, send them there. And the fact that it showed how much he cared about families and these people that yeah he decided he's like, I'm just going try to take care of it myself since they can't come.
00:32:25
Speaker
And and it cost him his life, but he went out there on his own. that scene was big on that father for sure yep good good guy to the very end dude even when the when the when the um when the cross was on fire and he refused like his hand was being burn burning his hand yeah and he refused to let go of his faith and like that was a big like that's when you knew it's like this guy it's like till the end yep yep and that was a believer yeah That was good.
00:32:55
Speaker
I will say i do wish for dramatic effect only. It's traumatic. I do wish it had lingered a little bit longer on his death. Like it was so fast.
00:33:07
Speaker
He tied that cord and jumped and I was like, Let us sit with that for a minute. And no more from the diocese about it either. The archdiocese had no other involvement in it, no other explanation, no kind of anything else about it. that We'll get to that stuff when we get to the script.
00:33:22
Speaker
But yeah, I was a four, guys. You guys? Yeah, i I gave it a three just because I think that the the family that was being haunted, it just felt like a Home Alone haunted movie. Like in the very beginning, with the it was literally the scene of the first Home Alone when they're getting ready to, like, they're all, like, everything's chaotic. And it's, I mean, and I guess it was an homage to the 80s type thing.
00:33:46
Speaker
But, I mean, besides Ed, everything else kind of felt a little short for me character arc. So I think Ed, that's why i gave it a three just because of Ed and and Tony. That home alone comparison was perfect, by the way, because I just thought like it was chaotic. You can't really pick up what anybody's saying. You just hear noise.
00:34:04
Speaker
And that's that's perfect comparison. I'm a three as well. ah find High five. was generous. I was generous.
00:34:15
Speaker
So next one. We have music and sound design. So this is one. guys I don't have much to say. it There's some good tracks. There's some good tracks in here.
00:34:27
Speaker
You got the cult, you know, that's a great thing for the 80s. We did have good licensed music. Yes. Yeah. Yes, there was some good licensed music. Some of the music during the wedding at the end there, really good, like old school classic stuff that really felt warm and inviting.
00:34:46
Speaker
But the rest of this the soundtrack itself, um I don't know. just they It had really good emphasis in the parts where it really wanted to build up that tension, which I think was great.
00:34:58
Speaker
Other than that, the rest of it is more about the sound design versus the music just because of the sound effects and everything. you know when When you hear the the hissing and smoking of the holy water in the basement, you know the chopping of the axon stuff.
00:35:13
Speaker
You know, everything just be beating, twist around the boards creaking, you know falling through everything. It's a lot of sensory noise going on in a lot of those parts, which, you know, that's that's cool. I can dig that.
00:35:25
Speaker
This was composed by Benjamin Wallfish, who is no stranger to horror films. um It looks like for composer and trying to figure out exactly he composed the conjuring last rights, the predator killer of killers until dawn recently.
Music and Sound Design
00:35:47
Speaker
Wolfman recently alien Romulus.
00:35:50
Speaker
He was composed of that. He did twisters. ah He did the flash movie from 2023. one twenty three That movie is garbage. Um, The Invisible Man by Lee Wannell, fantastic film. The original Shazam, like he did it.
00:36:07
Speaker
He composed the music for it, Annabelle creation. So he's no stranger lights out. He's no stranger to the genre at all. And I think that was evident. I think that was evident. He knew how to work a scene.
00:36:20
Speaker
I'm just not sure it stood out to me. That's all I got. Jonathan did a better job. I did. But GZ, your thoughts on music and sound design?
00:36:31
Speaker
So as far as for music, I gave it a four because the licensed music, I loved it. It made me feel like I was in the 80s and all that. um As far as for sound design, I thought it was good. I thought it was decent.
00:36:43
Speaker
I think that maybe it helped because the theater i was in they had a good surround sound where i could hear certain little cracklings the whisperings um i know one scene in particular was the scene at the dinner at the italian dinner table with the warren family where they're having dinner in the in the beginning close to the beginning of the movie um And the daughter, she just starts doing that little rhyme, the whisper to kind of keep the demons at bay.
00:37:08
Speaker
And before you see her doing it, the camera is focused on Lorraine. But then I could hear it around me And then I couldn't I couldn't make out what it was. And then you see Lorraine and then you see that hand on the shoulder and everything. But I know that part had just had something to do with the sound, but um I thought it was good. I mean, there was moments where it with the axe, the same thing, it was just it didn't sound like a sound effect. It sounded real.
00:37:32
Speaker
Yeah. um So even with the hanging with you hear the the sound of the noose with the body hanging and swinging, I thought that was good. I think the cracking of the mirror was like pretty good like it like i mean it was very synced perfectly so i think that's why i gave it a four but mostly mostly leaning on the music okay yeah i gave it a three i thought it was good and there was just nothing i guess at this point and maybe this is me being jaded at this point with the fourth conjuring movie i'm like
00:38:04
Speaker
It's all there. They did it like if nothing stood out as like, there we go. That broke the mold and surprised me. It's like, yeah, you guys are just doing good like you've been doing for the last three movies.
00:38:18
Speaker
So yeah, I was a three. I thought i they there was a good job just didn't quite stand out to me as much. Not a whole lot in that category. But the editing and special effects category, this this is an interesting one. What do you guys think?
00:38:32
Speaker
um'm I'm a four by the way.
00:38:35
Speaker
Oh sorry. gentlemen i can't keep track. Damn it. failed you. That's my You trusted Just leave me out. Jeez. the worst. We're synced man. I'm telling you me and Jonathan tonight.
00:38:50
Speaker
I just get on a roll and then want to go to the next category. Well did you have more thoughts on the sound Jonathan? no that i pretty much had all i did to say on it just you was real big fan of the cult she sells sanctuary that just felt very fitting for the movie yeah all right now we can go to editing and special effects get it see i thought you were excited about editing and special effects i am okay you wanna you wanna kick that off then dude the girl the the older sister
00:39:23
Speaker
puking, just vomiting blood at the table and the glass shards that come out. yeah That was rough. Yeah. Oh, that was so great. That did. Dude, I was just like, damn, that is brutal. And those little girls terrorized out of their minds by their older sister puking up blood.
00:39:38
Speaker
Yeah, that was great, man. it's So cool. But one of the biggest things, though, man, I mean, I know it seemed kind of cheesy, like you said earlier, but the spinning mirror thing going on while it's levitating and then just stopping out of nowhere.
00:39:50
Speaker
ah thought that was pretty cool effect. You know, yeah I had some good appreciation for that. And just ah just the shadow, in and out of shadow action that they had going on through a lot the stuff, though, I think they used really well, even though it's kind of a regular concept in all the movies as far as effects.
00:40:07
Speaker
But I just already really dug that, man. yeah Editing-wise, everything seemed pretty pretty pretty good. Everything moved along quite well with the way they clipped all the scenes together. i don't really have any hating on that. I actually enjoyed the way they set it up for for the most part.
00:40:25
Speaker
Yeah. I think what you pointed out, i yeah, we're competing with a football
Editing and Lighting Critiques
00:40:32
Speaker
game tonight. That's what Evan said. that's what I was thinking because I realized that there was like two other people that told me they were they were talking about football and i was like oh that's right there's like football today yeah I don't I don't watch football it's also why we don't normally do Sunday nights but it's a new movie I want to be I want to be on top of it but uh I because I did ask a couple other people who join us and they're like sorry man football and I'm like but boy
00:40:57
Speaker
I watched the Super Bowl maybe and that's it so I can't really I can't relate but dude i was just like I'm like I'm like I'm all right I'd rather do the conjuring yeah
00:41:13
Speaker
what Jonathan mentioned um that bloody vomit I was impressed because it changes color as she's spewing. And I know that's yeah, I know that's possible, but it went to red like she was vomiting cereal or whatever at first. And then it turns red in the same shot. And I was like that.
00:41:38
Speaker
That was cool. That was good. I haven't seen that before. And that was nice. Also, like I said, there was just way more blood in this one than any of the other any of the other Conjuring films that we've seen.
00:41:55
Speaker
Evan, that's a killer double feature. Conjuring and weapons? Dude, yeah. At the drive-in? are you kidding me? Yeah. I do hope you're closing with weapons. ah It's just my my two cents.
00:42:06
Speaker
i would say this way to go. The... I will tell you the um CGI giant Annabelle doll made me roll my eyes.
00:42:19
Speaker
I was really, really that that scene at first I thought they were doing stop motion with it. The way she stood up.
00:42:29
Speaker
The way she stood up off the floor, I thought it was going to be stop motion and I was like, that would be sick. but then she quickly kept growing and went CGI. It was really jerky. Yeah, I was stop motion. i could, that's a great way to do Annabelle coming alive. I'd be here for that, but that would probably forever.
00:42:49
Speaker
I don't have a whole lot more to say. It's, the editing was tight. It was good. like ah Jonathan said, it kept the pace moving, but there's nothing again that really, really stood I don't know if it I was putting it in direction, but it's also part of editing is this movie was dark, dark.
00:43:14
Speaker
And that is something to like, it bothers me. So we had the amazing ah Robert Eggers Nosferatu that showed you, you can shoot a movie in the dark and still see things.
00:43:31
Speaker
This movie was so dark you couldn't always see things. And that that kind of that kind of bothered me. So I kind of lumped that into editing. But that's all I really have on that category.
00:43:44
Speaker
You know, there was one particular effect. Well, there was two, there was two moments where I was like, damn, that, that really rocked my world. And it was when the mom is downstairs doing laundry and you see that dark ax figure just standing there in the shadows.
00:44:00
Speaker
And at first it's like, yeah, like at first when you were saying about the movie being dark, i was just i kept staring because i was like i know the camera's pointing there for a reason obviously we know the conjuring if there's a dark corner there's something there sometimes it doesn't show something but it just the darkness gets you know darker and with that scene where out of nowhere you see like a guy just standing there and then ah as soon as she turns on the light it's almost like they kept rolling Like it was so damn good that edit um that one. And then the one with the with the warrants are at dinner and you see the hand all of a sudden on Judy's shoulder.
00:44:40
Speaker
I thought that was like it out of nowhere. Like it even took me a second because the hand was already there and I'm staring, but it was so almost camouflaged in that it took like i don't know where i'm like, wait a minute.
00:44:52
Speaker
There's a random hand there. um So I thought it reminded me of the hand from the ritual on the tree. Oh yeah. You didn't really see it until it pulls away. Yeah.
00:45:03
Speaker
And I mean, I thought that was great. Um, I thought I, I felt like when, when they tried to go big with the special effects, it was kind of like, uh, I've seen it type thing, like rolling your eyes, but with, with the small stuff, the, I felt like the small stuff stood out a lot more.
00:45:20
Speaker
Like when that ceiling light falls down and it hits that girl in the forehead and all of a sudden she's on the floor and then the blood just starts coming out of nowhere. yeah it looked It looked so natural, so good.
00:45:32
Speaker
um like Stuff like that. um ah fact like like The scene where she was rewinding the tape to see when she blows out the candle to see that face there. like That was something I didn't really care for. I felt like the face was just... I felt like they could have done better with that.
00:45:47
Speaker
um you it was too photoshopped almost looked yeah it looked fake that yeah yeah it looked it looked very fake uh but besides that I mean the the the cross on fire on the father's hand that I thought was phenomenal um Even with his eyes turning red, like you see the the little veins and the eyeballs and stuff.
00:46:10
Speaker
I mean, again, the little stuff was phenomenal. The big stuff was okay. Seen it, seen it done better. um Like with the mirror started levitating. I thought it was cool. But then once it started like doing all this other stuff, I was like, okay.
00:46:23
Speaker
realistically now we know this is part of the movie that's this didn't actually happen to the warrens where this freaking like hundred pound mirror started levitating and spinning and all that um but yeah it was so like i thought the editing and special effects were pretty good i mean So I did look up.
00:46:40
Speaker
I wanted to see ah the actual case. Actual case doesn't seem super remarkable. It wasn't so extreme. The Warrens quit doing afterwards. The way the marketing for this movie made it sound, that's what we were expecting.
00:46:58
Speaker
um There were a couple things in this movie that actually happened. The light falling from the ceiling and hitting the girl was one of the things that happened in the actual case. The dog being thrown against the wall, which dog survives this movie, unlike Conjuring 1.
00:47:13
Speaker
So dog survives this movie. um That was brutal. The dog being thrown against the wall happened in the real case. Grandma falling down the stairs happened in the real case. Apparently it happened with multiple members of the family in the real case.
00:47:28
Speaker
um Something this movie didn't show us was there was some S.A. that happened in the real case with apparently the ghost assaulted the dad.
00:47:42
Speaker
or something like that and that was reported to have happened in the original case and that movie this movie didn't go into that at all but that would have been terrifying that would have taken it to another level wait no it did show it well he's being like the sleep cross was being levitated above the bed and you see her on top of him okay in a way yeah she was she was kind of like yeah like for anybody who doesn't know because it took me a second to realize what essay was it's uh diddling yeah so the dad got diddled by a ghost Yeah, I was trying not to get flagged and just say, a but yeah, it's hard. but yeah Now that you say that, now that you say that that scene, like they did an interpretation of it with his sleep paralysis, that scene, that was one of the better scenes in the movie.
00:48:29
Speaker
ah Again, i wish I'll get into umm there's one reason why i have so many issues with this movie and I'll get I'll get to it later. But the editing special effects for me, i was a four.
00:48:45
Speaker
Same. I was a five I was at a five. and Okay. Okay. Like so like with the father the flame, the use of the creeping shadow effects and everything, how everything just kind of dark and dim when things were getting really deep and heavy with the spirits.
00:48:58
Speaker
You know, there was a lot of good various parts action there, the levitation
Special Effects Appreciation
00:49:02
Speaker
bits. And you I had a good appreciation for it, especially along with the way they edited all together. yeah and then the the thing with the the mirror room when judy's getting fitted for her press you know glass and everything i thought that was really cool the levitation where the camera um it kind of does this panning thing that trick to show you that he's coming up off the bed i thought that was so damn good it was yeah it it reminded me of like weapon style editing
00:49:34
Speaker
right. yes And the script. <unk> This is my biggest issue with the movie.
00:49:43
Speaker
This is my biggest issue with the movie. i Because I said in the story, i don't think any of the story elements in this are necessarily bad. Other than, I think having the mirror be their first case connected to Judy's birth.
00:49:57
Speaker
And then the last case and pulling Judy. I think that's super cheesy. i think that is so cheesy. I also think... hindsight this is like where marvel planning could have done better is if they knew they were going to do this put those seeds throughout all four movies and then culminated in this one instead of having it all happen in this film because we've seen plenty of judy and then this is the first movie we see this mirror so that's that aside uh the script didn't do anything for the family that was being haunted
00:50:34
Speaker
It didn't help. The daughters were jerks to each other. They're like, all they did was yell at each other the whole time. i didn't feel bad for either of them. Typical teenage bitches.
00:50:46
Speaker
Yes. And then, like I said, the first one we knew about the family through dialogue. Mom and dad had a conversation about bills and what he was doing for work. And should he take this truck job, even though many was going to be gone, but it meant they could do something like they had conversations that told us about their life and we could sympathize with that.
00:51:10
Speaker
That didn't happen in this movie. Like GC said, it was the opening of home alone where everybody's running around yelling at each other and you don't get any depth to how they relate to each other.
Script and Plot Element Analysis
00:51:22
Speaker
Any of that.
00:51:23
Speaker
there's a lot missing from the family dynamic here outside of that the war and family and the haunting stuff felt so convenient everything was just a little bit too easy or left open-ended like there's a demon that was controlling the other three but we never saw that demon we've previous conjuring lore says that you have to know the demon's name to have power over it that's established in the conjuring part two get him tim yeah and so somehow in this one they overpowered this demon that is apparently just a mirror we never see this demon it is a mirror
00:52:08
Speaker
Apparently all they had to do was put their hands on the mirror and push. And like it was too convenient. It is just like, oh, right.
00:52:20
Speaker
Okay. And it doesn't not like that doesn't work for me. I think the story ideas they had and elements they had are fine.
00:52:32
Speaker
then you got to write why you got to explain how this works. The other thing that bothered me is what's Annabelle doing there is Annabelle the demon, because if Annabelle's that demon that's been following Judy, how is Annabelle attached to the mirror?
00:52:52
Speaker
that is bothering things. Also, we know Annabelle has been following Judy since like movie one. That's the thing. And so that just felt like, oh, Annabelle's here because it's a conjuring movie. We've got to have Annabelle following Judy.
00:53:05
Speaker
And it just felt like, explain that. That is what I don't, I didn't get what she was doing there. ah There was just a lot of little convenient things that don't fit with established conjuring stories.
00:53:22
Speaker
or help to establish what is going on in that film so i was just confused i was just confused by some of the haunting stuff and i needed the script to do a better job of conveying that the other thing that this is nitpicking after this the other so i don't think that was nitpicking i'm being nice on on that the one other thing that drove me crazy was lorraine just too much judy what's wrong judy what's going on judy like it happened too many times like find another way to have that conversation instead of lorraine just judy tell me like there's write that a little bit better is all i'm asking
00:54:17
Speaker
all i'm asking so that's that's my thoughts on the script i i think i could live with the story elements if we had tightened up the script a little bit I want to reply to Evan's comment and say, it's not nitpick is Tim pick.
00:54:35
Speaker
Tim pickin. It's Tim pickin. I like that. i I mean, everything you said was perfect. I want to, I want to piggyback on that because you touched on a few points, right? Lorraine sounded like that self-conscious ah boyfriend or slash girlfriend with her. Like what's wrong?
00:54:53
Speaker
What's wrong? Every two minutes. So insecure. and It was so insecure, so annoying. And it was like, dude, yeah, who are you talking? Who is that? Who made you laugh? Who's haunting you?
00:55:05
Speaker
but most yeah yeah mean Lorraine, I felt like she's always been such a badass in all the movies and she had dominion over every demon and everything. No matter how dark it got, she always kept her cool.
00:55:18
Speaker
And I get it. She's a mom. And I could get understand that trauma of the baby. Like I couldn't. That's definitely something where it's like that's her Achilles heel. But at the same time is that she's seeing everything that's happening to her daughter.
00:55:32
Speaker
And I don't know about you guys, but if my daughter, if I saw a creepy demon hand on her shoulder, instead of asking her what was wrong, I would be like, Hey, I know you're not telling me something and this is what I'm seeing.
00:55:44
Speaker
We need to figure this out. You know, I can see this shit too, right? like Yeah. Like we, you keep letting your daughter being haunted by all these demons and you know, like this is a big bad and you're still just kind of like, what's wrong instead of just jumping in and be like, no, we're exercising their shit out of this demon out of you or whatever.
00:56:03
Speaker
Yes. But dude, the script, I felt like the the family, the haunted family was just like a home alone spoof type situation. um they They provided no, there was no reason for me to care about them at all.
00:56:19
Speaker
No. um It was just, there there was nothing. They gave me nothing to care about them at all. There was not a single moment in the movie where i was like, oh, I hope they're okay. i wait yeah i was like yeah addie sorry I was just looking at who wrote it.
00:56:33
Speaker
He also wrote the autopsy of Jane Doe. movie That's a good movie. Yeah, dude. i love that movie. wow that's surprising oh geez that movie justifies everything it does but anyways gc keep going sorry no yeah i mean so i i wonder if this was studio involvement then because i mean that the autopsy of jane doe is phenomenal and then for this movie was more focused on the like on the family aspect of the warrens um the warrens coming to an end that part the script was fantastic
00:57:08
Speaker
But everything else, it's just this is the this is weapons to me all over again for anybody that still hasn't seen weapons, which I know, Evan, you haven't.
Marketing Criticism
00:57:16
Speaker
Shame on you. It's been already a few weeks. Kidding.
00:57:19
Speaker
But ah ah this is a spoiler. So just cover your ears or take off your headphones real quick. Give me like 10 seconds. weapons fails because they said it was horror movie horror movie the year this and that and to me weapons is a very social type movie that's talking about real life stuff instead of like that's the horror base of it to me yeah Um, and this is what this movie is. This is a family haunting movie.
00:57:47
Speaker
This is not like, oh my God, like with all these warning caution, you might have a freaking heart attack or, or throw a wall up or pass out in the movie theater. This is not it. Um, the, the marketing of the priest, like blessing people with holy water before.
00:58:03
Speaker
yeah like this is this is not that movie at all you're not going to get possessed watching it i've already heard on the news today that some guy supposedly got possessed watching the movie guys that's yeah that's a marketing stunt like listen the demon didn't even have a name in the movie do you think you're gonna get possessed from a demon that doesn't have a name i mean if we've all learned something but i felt like the conjuring dude this movie the conjuring it went away from the original like the the the whole plot the whole point of the demon having a name so you could have minion over it gone out the window like they changed all the rules in this movie um and we can name the first one the demon's name is Bathsheba okay kind i knew that's right yeah and the second one was Dalek
00:58:50
Speaker
she's the mom and the second one is valley and the second one that's another thing i'm glad you brought that one up because in the second movie the demons using the ghost as a of the old man as a puppet yeah and they did this they did the same shit in this movie they used the ghost as a puppet ah they just get regitated and recycled all the movies into one and it was just on that aspect as a haunting and a horror it was it was okay as a family motivational for you to keep your your your parents and your loved ones close definitely thumbs up for me on that part of the script um acceptance um all that stuff you know realizing when you're wrong and all that all those good little bits of you know making you a better person it was there everything else was just it fell below the waistline for me yeah
00:59:39
Speaker
yeah yeah Well, no, you guys definitely dig in and you make a lot of good points. I feel like maybe i i was still like so fresh off the hype. Maybe I overscored a little bit, but for me, it's more about some of the practical parts of the dialogue.
00:59:50
Speaker
You know, like when Tony is trying to talk to and Lorraine about wanting to propose, trying to get their blessing. you know nail or so so awkward so realistic so believable yeah you know and just the way that whole scene played out when Lorraine and Judy get to the dress shop and that girl that works there cracking her jokes like what you do with me reading oh ah I know you don't do that blah blah blah blah blah you know just those little jib jabs you know someone's being kind of a dick you know and So a lot of small stuff like that. And then the conversation, especially when Tony and Ed are making the pancakes for the family and Tony's like, is this always part of the process? Blah, bla blah, blah.
01:00:30
Speaker
And then Tony opens up about why he quit being a police officer and that whole aspect of it. Man, i really I really dug into that and I really felt that part because Tony was being straight up like, man, I'm a dead man because of what happened with this situation why he quit without trying to give away too much.
01:00:48
Speaker
yeah you know Then just the the look on Ed's face and his acceptance of being like, okay, that's that's some real shit. you know when it comes to like the dialogue aspect of it, that really hits home.
01:01:00
Speaker
And, you know with Lorraine at the end, talking about that vision she had for them at the end, you know, and seeing how enriched and full their lives will be towards the end. that sit really well. But another big key part, though, the haunted family, when the oldest daughter is flipping out at the dinner table with dad.
01:01:16
Speaker
And it's like you it's either you don't believe just because it hasn't happened to you or you're just helpless to do anything about it. You know that that part of it that that was awesome. I really felt that part.
01:01:28
Speaker
That was one good line from the family. That line yeah was great. I agree that stood out. Cause she was losing her shit on her dad about it. And that, that was awesome. That was good.
01:01:39
Speaker
Hard hitting dialogue for that for me. Can I ask you guys a question? why and Why, why is it that every single one of these haunted house movies, the family, the, the excuse is always, we can't afford to leave.
Socioeconomic Themes in Haunted Stories
01:01:52
Speaker
So we just deal with getting ghosted old and tormented and all that stuff. Cause we can't afford to leave like every single one. Have you noticed that? It always seems to happen to lower middle class families that can't afford to buy a new home.
01:02:04
Speaker
Why? and Why? Why? Why doesn't the rich get possessed and the rich economic hauntings, bro? you know I swear it's only freaking i were middle class. i I do think a poltergeist would be i think for the time poltergeist was made, they were living in an upper class neighborhood.
01:02:26
Speaker
Because it was an upper-class neighborhood that built on Indian burial ground. but that was but that was i think also his job that's why he got to live there because of his job right because i i don't even think like it was like free housing or something because he worked for them that's true so yeah he wasn't even rich either we don't see rich people get haunted it's just another perk of being the bezos of the world is you don't have to worry about getting haunted i'm too rich to be ghosted there we go guys work hard make a bunch of money and ghosts won't even bother you
01:02:58
Speaker
There you go. yeah That's too rich to care if he gets haunted. Whatever. What's the point? You never work a day in your life. If you like that's a good point.
01:03:11
Speaker
Jonathan, were you done with your thoughts on script? I am. Yeah. Okay. The you you you brought up a good point that daughter laying into dad. That that was a good line about being powerless to help.
01:03:25
Speaker
um and i i agree kind of piggybacking like we've all said i think the ed lorraine judy what's his name um i think those are the strengths of the film by far i think the extra stuff is rough i'm a three
01:03:45
Speaker
um Okay, ah um just going to go with Evan said. Score my heart. I went four on it. Dude, score with your heart. You know what, guys? Jonathan, going to have to break your heart here, but I gave it a three.
01:03:57
Speaker
That's five. Dude, I had to. It was just one of those... had to it was just it was one of those Yeah, unfortunately, the Ed and a Lorraine story was fantastic. Everything else. But that like you said, that dinner table scene with with the daughter, I thought that was, dude, I mean, if my that was such a perfect delivery.
01:04:16
Speaker
And how do you answer that at that point? You know, that was so good. So I'm glad you brought that one up. Yeah, me too. Dad can't say shit to that. It's just he's yeah either a bitch or a bitch. you know He's like, damn it, you're right.
01:04:28
Speaker
ah On to the acting then. This is one that I this is easy to praise because Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga are the reason we have tuned in to every one of these movies.
01:04:47
Speaker
they're they are are ed and Lorraine they are captivating they're so much fun to watch they are the reason we have an emotional connection to them at this point in the fourth movie they've been in five they have a very small part in Annabelle comes home they're in that one as well that one's just a brief like bridge between i think two and three but they have a part in that one too but they are so good in this uh is it tomlinson who plays judy in this she did a nice job as judy judy has had four different people play her by this point uh
01:05:39
Speaker
Yeah, Mia Tomlinson played Judy. And I thought she did a good job of playing in Judy.
01:05:48
Speaker
did I'm just trying to... Other than we kind of hit on Lorraine, seemed a little bit more insecure in this movie than she has in the past. And outside of that characterization...
01:06:02
Speaker
they are the reason i felt any kind of emotion about the proposal scene about the wedding about his heart they do such a good job throughout from movie one to now and i feel like they've grown in it and more than anything i felt like this wasn't just a farewell to the conjuring series i felt like it was a farewell to ed and lorraine by these two and that's what I've grown to love so I I don't know that I can pick a particular scene in this that I was like wow that was good acting I was just watching it and realizing i've watched these two play these characters since 2013 and I've loved the time not every movie's amazing but I've loved watching them play these characters
01:06:56
Speaker
Yeah, they I think they did a fantastic job. um I know Patrick Wilson, as far as for Aquaman, yeah play I thought he was great in Aquaman.
01:07:07
Speaker
I'm an Aquaman defender. I love the Aquaman movie. the The first one was good. it was just the other one. was those so comical The second one. Yeah. um but well that's because That's because I think they replaced Amber Heard with Patrick. I think it was supposed to be Amber Heard.
01:07:25
Speaker
And they put Patrick Wilson in after all the Johnny Depp drama. Yeah, that's true. They probably changed it up. And yep so I think that's the reason for that. But Aquaman aside.
01:07:37
Speaker
yeah a aquaman aside i think patrick wilson i mean i couldn't picture anybody else in vera and patrick playing these roles um they they did such an amazing job where i mean even the actors that played the young version of them in the very beginning when they started crying when the baby was a stillborn i mean that was so Like it was so believable the way all the way to the hospital when he's driving that that beautiful Mustang and just hauling ass in the rain and she's screaming and she's like, there's something wrong.
01:08:09
Speaker
Those actors crushed it. And then obviously Patrick and Vera, I mean, they like even when he's having the heart issues and stuff and and you even see it in his eyes when he's when when he's whenever he's interacting with the fiancee.
01:08:23
Speaker
of their daughter. Like you, he did such a good job, just not even saying anything and yeah saying enough with that silence, like the way he just stared the mannerisms. He looked like an uncomfortable dad that was not happy with, with, uh, with her daughter dating anybody.
01:08:39
Speaker
So he did great with that. Um, I mean, I even thought to the very end, I mean, they just, they just, they killed it, man. They made the franchise what it is. um ah They always, I always rooted for them.
01:08:51
Speaker
And it's funny because seeing the real people, Ed and Lorraine in real life, like the pictures and stuff, you see them and you're and like, I know to me, just looking at them in pictures, I'm like, eh,
01:09:03
Speaker
it's ah It's a 50-50 if they're real or
Real vs. Movie Warrens
01:09:06
Speaker
not. But then and and then Patrick and Vera always made me feel like everything that happened was real. Yes. They always convinced me so Right on.
01:09:17
Speaker
Well, you also got to consider, know, once again, you you child actors involved in this and with the whole family scenes, how believable it is, know, kids acting like kids. And that one scene where the the talking baby doll is is doing their thing, sitting up and levitating and that little girl just being scared out of her mind, just witless, you know, got to give credit to those kids for for being as awesome as they were in that. But everybody overall had really great delivery in all this.
01:09:45
Speaker
yeah so I can't i don't really have anything bad to say on the acting I think it was full marks on this because they just they kicked ass on it all right so full marks from Jonathan you get a five yeah all right nice I gave it a four I they and that almost all of that goes to uh Vera and Patrick. I just I just love them.
01:10:14
Speaker
So Judy's possession that was really good, though. Judy's possession, though, that was good. That was great. Good job. Creep the shit out of everybody was very vicious, evil.
01:10:25
Speaker
She doesn't have a whole lot of. Stuff to her name, she's been in maybe six things, a lot of British TV, some Netflix series, not a whole lot, but she was very good in this.
01:10:37
Speaker
She's very good. i agree. Yeah, I'm a four GC. jey I gave it a four, man. I mean, like I said, I think everybody did a great job. The ones that stuck out with Vera, obviously, and Patrick, um the the daughter stuck out to me, mainly the possession part.
01:10:53
Speaker
um I think the fiance crushed it. um He really sold it for me. Like, he really made me like him. I think to me, he was the most likable character in the entire movie.
01:11:05
Speaker
um and especially that story that he talks about with um with ed when he's telling him why he retired from being a cop um when he said that i it was so believable to me he did such a great job and and it's funny because this guy and i don't know if you guys um have seen i mean obviously you guys have seen final that's the first final destination and i'm sure you guys have seen idle hand oh i love idle hands doesn doesn't he remind you of devon salah somehow like or no like he resembles him like and so like if he's like related to him or something but as soon as i saw him on screen he's like is this the new generations like devon saw or something i see what you're saying yeah yeah it looks definitely there yeah what has that kid done to um i'm gonna look him up gonna look him up while you keep talking i think he was on six underground with um i think that's what it's called with um damn it what's his name from um um from so proper eastenders
01:12:02
Speaker
But yeah, he was in that action movie on Netflix with. um Oh, six underground. Yeah. Yeah. He was an X. Oh, he was a an X-Men apocalypse. That's why i got he was yeah yeah i thought he looked familiar, but I couldn't remember what from. He was Roger Taylor and Bohemian Rhapsody.
01:12:20
Speaker
he was. Oh, Yeah. He was. I agree. He was good. He was really good. He was super believable.
01:12:32
Speaker
um I'm used to seeing him in different roles. So like, this was the first role I've seen him where he's very vulnerable and very, um, like just very nervous. Like throughout the whole movie was just him wanting to be accepted and nervous and just trying to be understanding and stuff. And um I've never seen him in this type of role and now he just crushed it for me. yeah Like, I want to see him more stuff like this. Cause he's, he's good at action, like fantastic at it, but he was also like, he has range.
01:12:58
Speaker
Like I was very surprised. Uh, I haven't seen much of his other stuff outside X-Men Apocalypse, but yeah which is neither here nor there as far as movies go. But... Dude, Six Underground is pretty fun. Like, it's... If you like Michael Bay, you like explosions, you're going to love the movie.
01:13:16
Speaker
Great I have to check that one out. Yeah. Yeah. So we're all pretty high marks on the acting. So it's time to get in the direction. I said I would eventually get to the reason why I dislike this movie or not dislike. That's not the right word.
01:13:34
Speaker
Why I have so many issues and these issues for me come down to the direction i have decided i do not like Michael Chavez as a director.
Director Michael Chavez's Approach
01:13:44
Speaker
I have decided that.
01:13:46
Speaker
um it is a long time coming i liked his first movie llorona and i was excited when i heard he he was doing uh the devil made me do it because i was like he's got style he's got style i'm all right with that so i i was excited to see him do the devil in me since then he's done llorona Devil Made Me Do It, The Nun 2, and this movie.
01:14:17
Speaker
And each one I have liked less than the one before it. So I don't know what that is. i don't know. This movie bothered me, and maybe it is because we had just talked about the original Conjuring.
01:14:33
Speaker
And James Wan is a master storyteller with the camera.
01:14:39
Speaker
He is a master of it. But I distinctly remember in our episode with a GC and Steven from after hours and Jordan from the movie done.
01:14:50
Speaker
We talked about James Wan uses the camera in a way that makes you feel like you are present in the room when stuff is happening. Chavez does not do that.
01:15:03
Speaker
no No, he does. Yes. And he. either uses extreme closeups, which is just something that I kind of hate no matter where it's at, who who's doing it.
01:15:16
Speaker
I'm not a fan of extreme closeups. um I think they can be used effectively sometimes. to do it like when they were making pancakes. I'm like, this is I don't need that.
01:15:28
Speaker
I don't need an extreme close up of you cracking an egg in a bowl. What what purpose does that serve? I guess Oh, they're making breakfast. Okay, fine. I get that if if he's standing over a stove pouring pancakes, same thing.
01:15:41
Speaker
um But it also took away from the scares. Like there were multiple times in the original conjuring where we're following the mom through the house. And I just remember this so clearly.
01:15:55
Speaker
We're following her through the house like we're peering over her shoulder. And then she looks into the kitchen and the camera pans around keeping her in frame. But we go from looking where she's looking to looking behind her.
01:16:08
Speaker
and the door opens and now we're ah in on a secret that she doesn't know about yet but she heard and we see that and Chavez doesn't do that he doesn't use the camera to tell a story he uses it well but it's frustrating to watch how amazingly James uses it in one and two and to see Chavez is stylish, he's got style, but it doesn't have that realism that Juan had in the first two films.
01:16:47
Speaker
The first two films felt like movie versions of actual events. These two films feel like stylized movies based on a true story.
01:16:58
Speaker
so it's just and that is nitpicking i know it's tim picking um but it's too stylish compared to the first two movies is what i'm getting at and he was doing some like focus shifting in this movie that just made me mad like why are you doing that you're doing it because because somebody did it in the batman and you thought it looked cool and now but in the batman it told a story by bringing some things into focus and some things out and and this one there was that scene it was the scene when lorraine is talking to little judy about oh say the riddle and there was a moment when nothing was in focus and i was like why
01:17:45
Speaker
Yeah. Why use it as a storytelling element and it works. Use it because you're trying to be artsy bothers me. That being said, there were some things that I thought he did really well. I did like the establishing shot of the family when the car pulls up and we follow from the car through the door, through the house and see it was home alone, but it was one continuous shot. I appreciated that.
01:18:14
Speaker
Um, I thought it was cool, even if it was a little bit CGI when Tony at the end is I think he runs up to the back door and the camera pans quickly overhead spins and then back down through the front door.
01:18:30
Speaker
Really liked that one. Yeah. I thought that was pretty cool. The CGI was pretty obvious in it, but. for effect I was like that was nice I I liked that some more of that because that that shot told a story he's trying to get in the back door the actions happening in the front like that established that that worked for me so Chavez is not a complete loss I didn't fish the nun too because I thought it was boring as heck uh and maybe I should finish it because I've heard the end of the end of it is good
01:19:06
Speaker
But I still remember there's a scene in The Nun 2 when she's at a newspaper stand and the wind blows and the nun appears in the magazine covers. like Chavez is stylish. That is stylish. But I don't know that it scares me.
01:19:20
Speaker
Yeah. Like it doesn't, it doesn't have that rawness that Juan captured so well. So that's my, that's my rant on Michael Chavez and why this movie falls short for me is I am going to put it squarely on his shoulders.
01:19:36
Speaker
So sorry, Michael. Sorry. Well, i mean me and Bodhi here, we're going Tim pick a little bit because um and that's going to be a saying. I want a T-shirt.
01:19:48
Speaker
Tim pickin. Tim pickin. You get two. We'll just put like a star underneath like one through five and be like, give it a give it a two. Give it a three. Yeah, it's going to be three outline stars and two solid stars. Tim pickin.
01:20:01
Speaker
Tim picked. Like, I mean, man, you're right. i felt like this movie, dude stylish. He will give him credit. He he has style. I feel like if it was an action movie, it would have been suited more for his style if it was kind of like one of those most intense type scenes.
01:20:17
Speaker
But for this, it didn't make me feel scared. I think when the when the priest, you know, he did he decided to hang himself. I think that angle that he chose where it's like the cameras pointing towards his feet and crotch.
01:20:30
Speaker
to me it was just i rather had seen the height that he jumped from and seen how high it was instead of just not showing that um i think that would have been a little scarier of him hanging like five six floors but then you don't really see that um and it was just yeah it it just there it wasn't i mean that scene where the camera goes over the house and it goes through that door that was actually um again very convergitated from the second movie in the second movie it shows when lorraine's going around the house to go in through the basement and the camera pans overhead and stuff the only difference is that obviously the camera doesn't go through the door um but besides that um dude i i mean yeah i i think with the direction of it
01:21:16
Speaker
it was okay it it was okay but it just a lot of stuff that was blurry it it made no sense i was like in my eye my contacts dry like what's happening it just i felt like he there was this movie there was certain scenes where it seemed like the movie was trying to be something else because of the editing I'm like with that, with the blurriness, normally you use something like that if somebody's waking up or if they're having a memory or something like that or a flashback um or an illness or something's happening and they're like, I'm losing my sight.
01:21:49
Speaker
But with this, like there is no reason to do that. Like who's impaired while making pancakes? Like why are like these are like, you know, it's just crazy to me. Drunk people make pancakes.
01:22:00
Speaker
very And then I'm sure they still see better than that blurriness. But it was just, yeah, man, I'm i'm just going to pick the hell out of it. I just, I think direction was okay. i I definitely, I don't i don't know. i don't know why they chose this director to come back because clearly the devil made me do it. Didn't get the best praise.
01:22:21
Speaker
but Yes. That's what surprises me, honestly. Yeah. i i don't know i would did nobody else want to do it because they knew what they were for they knew that you know that the studio was probably going to control a lot of it or something because this was a i mean guys this was a cash grab i mean in the end that's what it felt like I was hoping Juan would come back for the final
James Wan's Other Projects
01:22:41
Speaker
one.
01:22:41
Speaker
I really was. I really was. And he comes back and he's just there in the audience just watching all this unfold. And it's like you get out of that freaking extra role and you get back in your seat and you finish what you started.
01:22:54
Speaker
i I'm kind of okay with it because you know why he's not there? He's making Creature from the Black Lagoon. oh Oh, okay. Okay. ah and I'm here for a James Wan creature from the Black Lagoon, man.
01:23:07
Speaker
Sign me and up. And he's saving the Saw franchise from itself by taking the rights back. So I guess you're forgiven, James. You're forgiven. All right, James. All right, James. He knew.
01:23:18
Speaker
he knew that this was a cash grab. that thought he was smiling there. He was like, oh I'm getting paid so much money right now to smile. Yeah. He still gives royalties off on every conjuring movie.
Film's Tension and Suspense
01:23:31
Speaker
This, this was the ultimate saw trap. It was for the audience. It was just like, let's play a game. He's like, you have to sit through this movie for an hour and a half and figure out if it's a haunting movie or a family.
01:23:43
Speaker
hey john yeah
01:23:48
Speaker
So ah you guys hit on a lot of great points. i don't really have too much to say on direction. i know you don't like those close in shots, Tim, but the, like the close in shot though, with the dad, when he's levitating, when they're just right in on his face, breaking out in that sweat, that realizing that terror after getting that just straight tongue lashing from his daughter, Oh, just because it hasn't happened to you. And now i was like Oh shit, it's happening to me.
01:24:09
Speaker
Seeing that fear on his face when he can't do anything. And then that secondary shot where it pans, where you start to see the spirit on top of him while he's levitating. I thought that was great effect on that. You know?
01:24:21
Speaker
Um, But aside from that, yeah I don't really have really much to say. but you guys have convinced me to drop my score, though. oh yeah well i mean i love to hear it but um you know what i realized guys with that scene with the dad um so i think he was i think that was something that was happening to him reoccurring because you remember in the dinner table scene where the daughter's like oh because it's not happening to you and he does say he's like oh it is happening to me it's happening to all of us
01:24:53
Speaker
um so I think he didn't want to tell her because of the whole diddling thing you know it's like how's he going to tell his family that that's happening to him you know so I would have lost it tap I'm getting diddled every night okay what you didn't want to hear all about it he just looks at her he's like you don't know what my life is every night I'm woken up levitating being diddled like the next murder is cheating wife is diddling him now yeah his cheating wife is sitting on me that's true that dude you just said something that makes perfect sense yeah that's exactly what the wife the the the ghost was a cheater and she was doing that to him like dude that makes perfect sense now you look at us I'm glad we did this but hey there's there's a little bit of the dots yep connecting those dots
01:25:41
Speaker
that that That made sense.
Divergence from Wan's Horror Style
01:25:43
Speaker
So ah unfortunately, my score for this movie, and I think it's just frustration after after everything Chavez has put us through, um it's it's a two. I think he did an okay job.
01:25:57
Speaker
I'm not going to go out there and say it's bad. it is just so divergent from what James Wan set up in the first films. It's so stylish. It has removed the horror for me.
01:26:12
Speaker
It's too. It's too clean, too pristine. It looks like a big budget movie. Yeah.
01:26:21
Speaker
I'm giving it a three. I'm in. Well, I want to I wish I could give it a two and a half, but I gave it a three just because to like i can edit. I can put it in there. Yeah, du dude. Dude, I think we do have scores, but only for people who join us live.
01:26:35
Speaker
So There we go. There we go. Whoever's watching this after the recording. Yeah, now you know. but No, i I think for me, I gave it that just because, I mean, Jonathan, i that levitation scene loved it.
01:26:48
Speaker
I thought it was so cool, that whole like, type situation. And it's like, it's kind of the optical illusion. And it's like, oh, he's levitating. I mean, that sweat coming off of him. I don't know how, i don't know if they were spraying him or misting him.
01:27:00
Speaker
i don't know if they had a heater right over him. Yeah, they had like one of those blow dryers all all over his face, making him sweat. Holy water. dude Yeah. They're just a going like James Wan is behind the scenes just trying to help. and like its very cool But so good. That was so good. But yeah, that's direction wise. It's a little less blur next time and a little bit more less big blockbuster, more horror, you know, more gritty, a little more dirtier. And so, yeah, it's like a change my score. i'm I'm down to a three.
01:27:31
Speaker
Hey, all right. Happy we could do that. please All right, so the it factor, the cultural significance of this film.
Public Perception and Polarization
01:27:42
Speaker
This is I gotta say, um I'm seeing a lot. Nobody is saying this movie is a home run. Nobody is saying it's excellent.
01:27:54
Speaker
I am seeing quite a bit say it's a good movie. I'm also seeing quite a bit saying it is terrible. So um i'm I'm seeing both.
01:28:06
Speaker
And to be honest, I understand both arguments because I feel like i have said the same thing tonight. There are parts of this movie that I'd be fine if they were basically the entire pits, whatever, Pennsylvania family remove it.
01:28:23
Speaker
Just give me the Warren storyline and this movie is great. Um, but that aside, I'm seeing quite a bit of conversation about it. I think more so the, the, uh, social,
01:28:39
Speaker
impact of this film is the fact that this is marketed as the final in a franchise that has dominated the horror world for 10 years more it is marked as the end and i don't think this is the end of the conjuring universe i think this is the end of Ed and Lorraine, especially since this has already broken some box office records and is the third highest grossing in the franchise as of Sunday night.
Future of The Conjuring Universe
01:29:15
Speaker
like It's making money, so Warner Brothers is going to want more. But what spinoffs are we going to get next? they're just i think they're going to stray from Ed and Lorraine.
01:29:26
Speaker
You think so? You think so? Because like, um, Warner Brothers loves money. Cause yeah. Cause well, we remember we talked about it on the cinema. We went up. So for the first conjuring, how, I mean, and I think they probably tested this a little bit with, um, with the young actors of Ed and Lorraine.
01:29:45
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, they were really good. They looked just like, um, so I wonder, that's younger version looked just about exactly like him. I was like, damn, that's a really good, so i'm wondering if they could do a a spin-off with them with the young version of when they very first started like the very first cases and i wouldn't i wouldn't mind that yeah Yeah, because I was watching that and thinking how good those two were. And i was like, I'd watch them again because they could.
01:30:14
Speaker
I just don't know if can I trust Warner? But no, you can't trust Warner Brothers. They're notoriously to never trust the studio. Yeah, but like they're liars. It's which market this as the farewell to Vera and Patrick. and but Evan Lorraine will be back in a younger form as so and so.
01:30:35
Speaker
But I I do think that is the big draw the the influence right now is people like oh this is the last one and they're showing up for it because I mean I'm 35 right now and I've been watching these movies since I was 22. like it's been a big part of young adult life yeah Like I've seen every conjuring movie, even if I didn't finish the nun too, I've watched all of them.
01:31:08
Speaker
So like it's a big deal.
01:31:14
Speaker
I think it's definitely like an end of an era type situation. Like I'm wondering if they'll probably pick up with the daughter because they focus so much on her and her powers. yeah So I'm wondering if maybe something like that, even though in real life, I don't think she did continue any of that.
01:31:28
Speaker
That would move fully into the realm of fiction. Yeah. um Unless they focus on maybe Insidious or something else. But yeah, I mean, I think as far as for it, like cultural and significance and stuff like that, I think that this movie, I don't know. I don't i don't think it's going to be talked about for too long at all.
01:31:49
Speaker
I like heard what them saying that it was it did better. It finally broke the curse and it did better than the last one. But it didn't. That's what they marketed as. They're like, oh, it did better. But it wasn't like...
01:32:01
Speaker
Oh, it's like it it was it's a game changer or anything like we all I think we all knew going into it that it was just the end of an era just to give, you know, Vera and Patrick the proper good why goodbye.
01:32:13
Speaker
But I don't think this in 10 years people are going to look back at this movie and be like, oh, my God, like, I think the first conjuring is always going to be. the the one that people always talk about because it did things that other haunted house movies have not done but this one is just it was just a it felt like the entire movie was a recap of all the other movies that's all it was it was just reminding you of every other scenario that every other movie had there you said something that i was gonna remark on and then i forgot about it so jonathan can take it away
01:32:48
Speaker
Um, considering that it's the end of a four set, of the whole Conjuring universe. The fact that it had so many spinoffs though is amazing. And um if they do carry on with Judy and Tony, that would be awesome.
01:33:04
Speaker
Even if it's not based in any kind of like real life situations, that would be amazing to see where that spins out to. um But when you look at their museum and the thousands of cases they have in all those objects that you see in there, there's so much possibility of story there that I would love to see.
01:33:22
Speaker
If they were to do that with those younger version actors, yeah i think that would be I think that could be a straight win. But maybe not so much as movies, but maybe as a series.
01:33:33
Speaker
I agree. Maybe like an hour-long episode kind of situation. and think that would that would work well with with all the different objects they have available and what kind of things you could potentially write up on that.
01:33:44
Speaker
We're on the same wavelength. I said the same thing when I was with GC for the cinema rewind episode. I said, i would watch, give us six one hour episodes a season.
01:33:57
Speaker
and just really do the story well, drag it out. Think Haunting of Hill House, but for the Warrens, give us give us that. i'm I'm here for that.
01:34:09
Speaker
And you do it as a TV series like that, and it separates enough from Vera and Patrick that you don't feel like it's essentially recasting the roles. It's a different version.
01:34:22
Speaker
Yeah, same wavelength. I'm here because there's so many stories to tell. The thing we talked about on Cinema Rewind is we never got the Amityville house.
01:34:33
Speaker
Yeah, I would have loved to see more on that. Considered like the Amityville horror and like the series of moves they have in that set. That could have been cool. And Ed and Lorraine were there at Amityville and like that could have been a sick movie if James Wan directed it ah why Why did they pick?
01:34:52
Speaker
I mean, there's if there's over a thousand cases. And I get not every one was legit. But there's no way out of a thousand it was, what, four or five cases that were real? like I mean, supposedly if there was more, and like why not focus? I mean, I know the Amityville has been done.
01:35:09
Speaker
But I think somebody like James Wan, especially that little tease that we got with Amityville, I mean, that that looked so good in that movie that they could have done something with it.
01:35:20
Speaker
I'm also entirely on board with him doing the cases that people consider controversial and yeah aren't real, because i think that adds credibility to the story that you're telling is the the thing I really appreciated about the second movie.
01:35:37
Speaker
was and i texted jonathan last night when he was doing his marathon i was like i go back and forth sometimes i think the first one's the best sometimes i think the second one is it just bounces back and forth for me and what i'm after at that moment but i was like sometimes i really like how they addressed the fact that people thought she was faking it yeah I really like that they tackled that. And I'm like, you do that and address like, hey, this haunting is not real as some of the stories.
01:36:11
Speaker
I think that makes it better when it is real.
01:36:15
Speaker
They should have showed us, um, like they showed us these movies, these stories, right. But they should have sprinkled in the fake ones, like you said, throughout these conjuring movies. So it kind of showed them on both sides because they do talk, they do address it in the movies when they're having conversations, especially the second one, they're like, oh, we've had a lot of cases where we found out that's why we document things. And that's what we interview and we do this process to figure out what's real and what's not.
01:36:40
Speaker
But I just wish they would have showed the actual them going into these houses and realizing, like looking at each other and be like, yeah, this is fake. Instead of just them talking about it. I think that, like you said, it would have gave more credibility for sure.
01:36:54
Speaker
i would, I think that. with with Since the start of it, there's been lots of different like paranormal investigation shows that have come up, and all kinds of series through different channels. And I think that's amazing because even with a movie series like this, the whole paranormal investigation thing, people always write it off as a hoax.
01:37:13
Speaker
It's bogus. And then you like even with like Ghostbusters and how like Dan Aykroyd and his family were all into the occult stuff and you know how that kind of legacy carries on. i would like to see how that impacts the future when it comes to the paranormal stories and what other stuff people will come up with. so but we We have yet to see how it's going going to impact things in the long run
Series' Impact on Horror Community
01:37:33
Speaker
after this. But over the ten ah these like past 10 years, though, plus, I think it's had a great effect for the horror community. Even though you guys have been watching it for longer. And Tim, you've been watching it since you know since you were 22. I've only been watching it since last night.
01:37:45
Speaker
so Yeah. I can't see. But a lot of I've heard people talk about the film in the past. A lot of people have recommended it to me. It's shame on me for not getting to those other films until recently.
01:37:58
Speaker
But I still think it's pretty great. um So I'm just going to throw it out there. I feel like you did factor on my four on that. Oh, okay. i So I actually, um I'm with you because i think it's a four.
01:38:13
Speaker
I think it's a huge... thing for this franchise and people don't know if this franchise is coming to an end is this it we haven't heard about the nun three we haven't heard about it yeah we haven't heard about another annabelle movie with the the thin man the crooked man from the second was teased and never released like we don't know I yeah we don't know of any other movies that are going to happen in the conjuring universe this could be it and I think that is why we're seeing box office results already I think that's why it's doing well I will it have a lasting impact I don't think so but for now it is the final conjuring movie and I think that is significant so that's why I give it a four
01:39:07
Speaker
Guys, you guys are generous tonight, man. Damn. Wait for my next number. oh and I gave it to me, and I'll explain why. i gave it a two.
01:39:21
Speaker
I gave it a two because I gave it a two for this movie. Like if it was the conjuring, the first conjuring, I would have set a five because I mean, it's something that, again, we still talk about.
01:39:33
Speaker
So I mean, look how many years later we still discuss it. We, I mean, we love it. We praise it. There's new movies that are still not doing the things that the first conjuring did. um Even though the template is built out, it's there for them. The instructions are there.
01:39:46
Speaker
um But this movie was just a two. It was just um a, I know in like, It's kind of like Motley Crue, right? They read they retired. They said they weren't going to gig anymore and they do their last show. And a few years later, they come back and they start touring again.
01:40:00
Speaker
And I just feel like this movie is going to make so much money because everybody's like, oh, it's the last conjuring because the way they hyped it up that because of that, um they're going to be like, oh, we made a lot of money. Now we have to make another none three or another movie ah adjacent to obviously in the conjuring universe.
01:40:21
Speaker
But yeah, I think this one's going to fizzle out in a week and everybody's going to to be distracted with something else. So yeah, I just gave it a two. um I can't argue with
Film's Role as a Farewell
01:40:31
Speaker
that. i I feel like they will come back, but I wish they had gone out.
01:40:35
Speaker
I wish they had actually gone out with a doctor feel good of a movie. But no, we we we didn't get Motley Crue's doctor feel good before the hiatus. Oh, all right.
01:40:48
Speaker
onto our final, we'll start wrapping it up with our how entertained were we final thoughts, and then we'll get into the average with the final scores there. So I'll let you guys what should I go first since I've been going first all night?
01:41:04
Speaker
I'll do it. i'll do it Don't break the curse. ah How entertained was I?
01:41:10
Speaker
six i was a six on this film i was not super entertained the horror elements left me flat and bored however as we have said throughout the ed and lorraine elements of this movie i do i don't think i would tell anybody who is a fan of the conjuring universe to skip this watch it i think it's worth seeing to see the end of ed and lorraine's story even if the haunted house elements are rehashes of the other films they're just recycled pieces of the other movies but what is unique and what is worth seeing is the end of ed and lorraine's career their family time it's a beautiful story
01:42:02
Speaker
piece that I do kind of wish. I mean, i would watch this if but as we're talking about it, I started brainstorming. I will probably would have liked this better if it was very different in that it was. Ed telling Tony bits and pieces of their story as we get to know Tony and see the end of them.
01:42:28
Speaker
And instead of having this kind of contrived and forced haunted house story that we're told it's so bad, it ended their careers. Like, no, it wasn't.
01:42:40
Speaker
um If we had seen him like, oh yeah, this little piece and we see little clips of that story and we get to know Tony and the family and just a different way to do that.
01:42:54
Speaker
I'd be here for that, but it wouldn't be a horror movie. You know, that's that's a heartfelt drama. And actually the heartfelt moments of this movie are what works. yeah So that's where I'm at.
01:43:07
Speaker
I'm a six. Well, I watch this movie again. Eventually. Eventually. But when I'm going for a Conjuring movie, it's still going to be one or two. or Annabelle Comes Home. I defend Annabelle Comes Home.
01:43:22
Speaker
People don't like Annabelle Comes Home, but that is a fun movie. So Annabelle Comes Home, I'll defend that one too. But though those are my three conjuring films. so i i I think you copy my scorecards because I'm giving it a six too.
01:43:38
Speaker
And i gave it a six as well. i was I was more emotional than I was entertained with this movie. And which was surprising for it being a horror conjuring type movie universe movie. like i And none of them, Annabelle, The Nun,
01:43:54
Speaker
The Nunals creeped out at times, like all these other movies, but this one's the only one that made me feel emotional. It made me think about my life. It made me think about my mortality. um This one had more depth than it had horror in it for me.
01:44:07
Speaker
um I think that, like you said perfectly, if you're a fan of The Conjuring, if you're a fan of Ed and Lorraine, watch this movie because this movie is going to give you closure.
01:44:18
Speaker
This movie gives you that proper send off with them, even though it is false advertisement because this movie didn't this case didn't end her career. I mean, clearly they still kept taking cases over the phone.
01:44:31
Speaker
um The problem was that I don't think a lot of people are going to understand is the fact that the only reason they stopped going to these houses and all this stuff is just because It's mortality.
01:44:41
Speaker
They got older. Ed's heart's not doing great. Lorraine's tired. I mean, she's been doing this for she's been dealing with this power for her her entire life. um and And not to mention they have grandkids, right? They got something.
01:44:55
Speaker
They lived such a dark life. most of their lives and now they're finally able to enjoy the little bit of light that they have because now they're their grandparents so they start you know lorraine got the vision and they decided they're like we we're going to still help people but we're to do it from a safe distance so we can still focus on our family that we neglected for so long you know and I think that they obviously still continued because they showed it so it wasn't the end but entertained gave it a six I thought it was I thought that was fun at times it was very heartwarming it was there was moments of emotion but nothing more than that like id I definitely love to have it to have it complete the collection yeah and I didn't
01:45:36
Speaker
yeah get the box set and i think it's funny because i know it's gonna sound a little bit twisted but i think i would watch this as a feel-good movie just because like it has that i don't think that's twisted right because i i know people would be like what the conjuring like you want to watch this is feel good yeah that's me it made me feel really good about the whole family the happy ending the like what they had to look forward to how human they were like they dealt with the same shit that we deal with You know, they weren't all the almighty, like powerful Lorraine and Ed. They were just people aging and just trying to do the best they could based on the movie. Obviously, I don't yeahp know them in real life, but yeah.
01:46:16
Speaker
No, that's that's it. My rant. All right. You guys nailed most of it. um like said I said there were plenty of parts in the film that gave me chills, um you know, that I really appreciate. And it's something I wouldn't mind watching again.
01:46:31
Speaker
i'd be down for and It's something I'm going to tell people about. I think it's worth the watch as well. um The sentimentality of it all, along with those chills and everything. i You know, maybe I'm not as timpicky about it, but I do like this film. I liked it. And after we watched the first all three last night and then this together all succinctly.
01:46:53
Speaker
I think it does tie up really well for the most part, even though like the intro text kind of made it seem more dire than it really was at the end. i still I still give it high marks. I think i feel like an eight on it.
01:47:07
Speaker
Hey, that's good. ah I was hoping you did a six. Six, six, six. ah I thought about that. I was like, I'm curious, Jonathan, since you just watched all of them for the first time, what is your ranking?
01:47:22
Speaker
Oh, which is the best, which is the worst.
01:47:27
Speaker
So I really liked the first one. I thought that was great. The second one, however, had better special effects. And maybe certainly certain aspects of it were a little more tense and dark.
01:47:42
Speaker
it compared to certain parts in the first one. Three was cool and all, but it just didn't quite have that same feel. um Was it so much demon inspired or like related? It was more of a cultist taking action on other people. But there were good aspects to that.
01:48:00
Speaker
The X-Files. Three was like an episode of the X-Files with Ed and Lorraine. So um I enjoy them all. I liked what I saw. But it's a hard toss up between what's one and two between the first and second films, kind of like how you were talking about last night.
01:48:17
Speaker
um If I had to rate it just based on the effects, then the second one would go first. But the the first one, that initial story, the involvement, you know, and just everything and how it went about the house and how rough and raw it was, I would still say to say it' it almost goes in order of production.
01:48:39
Speaker
but except maybe I would have to say maybe it'd be, I feel like for this most recent one, last rights would still be a little bit better than three than devil made me do it.
01:48:51
Speaker
So I'd be like one, two, four and three. So I have to disagree with Evan in the comments. ah Insidious is a four at best, and I will die on that hill.
01:49:03
Speaker
i haven't seen Insidious. I still got to watch that one as well. That is my hot take. people I personally loved Insidious until I watched it again for the first time. ah Again for the first time.
01:49:18
Speaker
um Like six years ago. or No, it was probably three years ago, and I was like, wow I don't remember this movie like this. Anyways, so let's get, i have our final scores here.
01:49:32
Speaker
So if you have them and want to read them to me, you can, otherwise i have them. I got mine. Okay. I don't have mine. With change, I'm at 39. Jonathan is a 39. am 33. And a 31 and a half. Nice. Because you a half there.
01:49:47
Speaker
i m a thirty three and gc you are a thirty one and a half nice go in there So the three ah of us together create an average of 34.5 or three and a half stars out of five.
01:50:04
Speaker
And I do. That's about where I thought we would land, guys. That's about where I thought we'd land, because after I walked out, I was like, it's not. It's not a four. It's not a five.
01:50:17
Speaker
yeah it's It's fair, dude. Really fair. I feel like that's pretty, pretty good. Don't go for the scares. Go for Ed and Lorraine and it's worth it. It's worth it.
01:50:29
Speaker
So that's, that's all. I didn't write an outro for us this time, Jonathan. Oh, it's okay. I know thoughts.
01:50:37
Speaker
Yeah.
01:50:40
Speaker
I kind gave my final thoughts. Did you guys, did you guys write down a final thoughts or no? I don't generally put anything on there. I usually say most of what I need to say during the episode. Oh, okay. You want to read yours? Yeah, usually on that. for it, dude. If you got some, go. yeah you can read yours.
01:50:54
Speaker
Oh, I just put, I put the movie was good. It wasn't great. um The Conjuring universe, you could tell it's lost its charm with this movie. It went from horror to just heartwarming, you know, kind of dramatic type.
01:51:09
Speaker
um It was a good send off. um You could just tell there was just nothing left in the franchise. um As far as for creativity, um it was just literally just giving them that homage. it's like, thank you, Vera. Thank you, Patrick, for everything you've done for over the years.
01:51:24
Speaker
And you're going to get a proper send off. And now, Patrick, you can focus on Insidious Universe. It was a proper farewell. It was that's all it that's what it was. But I just I don't know. It just had lost that conjuring this to me. yeah um But still, again, go watch it.
01:51:43
Speaker
It was awesome, like to experience that and to almost feel like you're going to cry a little bit because like, damn, I don't know. um That normally doesn't happen in these horror movies. It's going to hit in the feels more than you expect and way less in the scares. But that's OK. That's OK.
01:51:58
Speaker
So I didn't write an outro. I did want to say, GC, should we tell Should we should we make it public? I know we've all talked about it behind the scenes, but dude um listen I'm listening. I'm down, man. If you guys want to.
01:52:10
Speaker
So I mean, Evan's live right with us, but we'll have others who catch it later. um We've been talking and GC is going to be joining us full time in January.
01:52:23
Speaker
So it'll be the three of us plus whatever guests we can wrangle in the meantime. But We'll start planning after our 13 nights of Halloween season finale. And then from November to December, we'll be planning out the next 21 movies, I believe is...
01:52:41
Speaker
what our year consists of, I'd have to double check. Roundabout. Yeah. Season five will be interesting. Yeah. ah Four. Four. Or season four. Sorry. Yep. Season four. So we won't be doing 13 nights of Halloween anymore because we'll be focusing on the dread broadcast instead.
01:52:59
Speaker
so really pushing the community feedback on that has been amazing. And I want to keep That's what it's about. That's what it's about, that community. So really pushing that. Going to step back 13 nights of Halloween.
01:53:15
Speaker
And yep, Evan's excited. So ge GC will be here full time starting in January. So no idea what movies we're bringing yet, but we'll let you know as soon as we figure that out.
01:53:27
Speaker
So GC, exciting to have you. Dude, i'm I'm pumped, man. I mean, I think this is going to be the best, you know, thruple, the best. yeah I wanted her to make a joke, but I was like, damn it. I wonder if like YouTube would allow it Just do it. I'll delete it later. i was just going to say, this is going be the best three way you guys are ever going to experience on YouTube. know But it yeah, man, i I'm not just excited. It's always been a blast hanging out with you guys. And it just, it feels so natural ah to be a part of it and to hang out with you. I think like next year, I mean, with the, with the movie lists and everything, it's going be fun. It's, I mean, it's, it's, yeah, I, I,
01:54:09
Speaker
I just make sure you guys, if you're watching this episode to keep tuning in get ready for next year. um it's It's so much stuff in the works and it's going to be awesome. I'm honored. I'm honored to be a part of this with you guys.
01:54:23
Speaker
we're We're excited to have you. and that like, What we do different, I don't know how often if you've made it this far in the episode is we want you listening out there to score the movie with us. If you've seen it, you can use the same link, drop it in, drop it in the chat, score it as we go. And we'll talk about that.
01:54:44
Speaker
So tonight was quiet because we're competing with football and football gets the highest ratings in television. So not much we can do about that. Thank you, Evan, for still tuning in while everyone else. We love you, Evan.
01:54:56
Speaker
Yeah. Love you, Evan. So thank you guys. Jonathan, last words.
01:55:04
Speaker
Rock out with your socks out. yeah Jonathan, he's too excited, guys. He's too excited. He's lost for words. I'm just tired from my marathon of movies and everything else I've been running around doing the day.
01:55:17
Speaker
so Sorry, that's all right. We got to let you get to bed. We got to record another 13 nights of Halloween this week, I believe. Pie whack it. Yeah. so thank you for joining us uh as we've said final final words are we have determined if you are a fan of the conjuring series of ed and lorraine specifically go see the movie don't go expecting scares go for a proper farewell to the franchise that has been with you for 12-ish years and if you've enjoyed those rides
01:55:49
Speaker
then hopefully you enjoy this movie. The Conjuring has been an excellent gateway series for so many people. not Not too long after you finish the Conjuring series, you're going to be watching Bring Her Back, and that's going to fuck you wow watch bring her back first then this movie then this is child's play this is this will make you feel better not the chucky movie child's fight this is a kid's movie uh anyways that's all we have and we will see you in i two weeks one week don't know this is a new release release it messes up the schedule we'll be back see you then later guys peace