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Night 11: PYEWACKET with @thehorrorvision1437 The Demon You Invite In| 13 Nights of Halloween
19 Plays1 month ago
Tonight, we’re summoning something dark. Join Tim and Johnathan, along with special guest Shawn from @TheHorrorVision, as we dive into Pyewacket — the 2017 folk horror film that proves the most dangerous rituals are the ones you don’t fully understand. Written and directed by Adam MacDonald, Pyewacket follows a grieving teen who turns to the occult to lash out… and calls forth something she can’t control. With its slow-burn tension, forest isolation, and deeply emotional core, this film has carved out its own eerie space in modern horror. We’re talking grief, guilt, the dangers of belief, and what happens when you call for help — and something answers. So grab your ritual books, light the black candles, and join us for Night 7 of 13 Nights of Halloween. ⸻ ✨ Be part of the conversation! Submit your own score here: 👉 https://tr.ee/iGtZ-DpOO6 📚 Want more horror? Check out our books on Amazon: 👉 https://a.co/d/bUtniBd 🎧 Check out our friends at Zencastr and get 30% off your first 3 months of Zencastr Pro: 👉 https://zen.ai/theaveragereviews 📖 Enjoy $5.00 off your first purchase when you use Tim Umpleby’s code “TIMOTHYREADS” at checkout: 👉 https://pangobooks.com/TIMOTHYREADS
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Appearance
00:00:31
Speaker
Welcome back, horror family. Welcome back to the 13 nights of Halloween. And tonight, things get personal. I'm Jonathan. And I'm Tim. And joining us is a brand new guest here on The Average, but someone you may already know from the Horror Vision podcast, our friend Sean.
00:00:49
Speaker
He's joined us more than once over on the Dread broadcast. Sean, thank you for being here. Oh, thanks for having me, guys. I'm so psyched. ah just i I love what you do, so I'm happy to be a part of it.
00:01:01
Speaker
And yeah, you know, I'm glad that you picked this flick and we're kind of doing some like modern folk horror. I've really been into that lately. And over on the Horror Vision, we've been doing a show called Sticks and Stones, like our sub show that's a folk horror.
00:01:18
Speaker
And so it it just fits. And the weather in Tennessee has been autumnal in the morning. And yeah, it's just got all those those good October juices flowing.
00:01:30
Speaker
fantastic so i i know what you mean i'm just a little bit north of you in indiana and it's been super cool and fall like in the mornings and i'm ready i'm ready for october to be here already yeah yeah but tonight you are joining us to dive into one of the more unnerving modern folk horror films pie whack it
Overview of 'Piewacket' Themes
00:01:55
Speaker
That's right.
00:01:55
Speaker
Pie Wacket dropped in 2017, written and directed by Adam McDonald. And while a lot of horfo hope for folk horror pulls you out into the woods and into ancient traditions, this one turns inward.
00:02:09
Speaker
It's about grief, anger, teenage alienation, and what happens when those emotions mix with ritual and the occult. At the heart of the story is Leah, a teenager grieving her father while navigating a fractured relationship with her mother.
00:02:24
Speaker
In a moment of rage, she performs an occult ritual to summon a demon named Piewacket to kill her mom. But once that door is opened, there's no taking it back.
00:02:35
Speaker
The film digs into the guilt, fractured family bonds, and how dangerous it can be when desperation leads you to some dark decisions. And that's what makes it such a strong fit for our folk horror theme.
00:02:49
Speaker
It's got the isolation, the woods, the ritual magic, and the sense that once you call on something older and darker than yourself, you no longer control the outcome. This isn't just about monsters lurking in the shadows.
00:03:01
Speaker
This is about the monster you invite in. We've got demons, grief, witchcraft, and Sean's insight to help us unpack it all. So draw your ritual circle. Don't say the wrong words. And whatever you do, don't look over your shoulder.
00:03:18
Speaker
This is Piewacket. All right. The story of Piewacket.
Personal Experiences and Impressions
00:03:24
Speaker
I went into this movie completely blind. To be honest, folk horror is not my jam.
00:03:29
Speaker
There are certain ones in the genre that I really, really enjoy, but for the most part, I don't enjoy. the majority of full core films so when i made this list i made sure to put a couple on there that i knew i liked a couple on there that i'd never seen but came highly recommended this is one of those that was recommended and i'd never seen so this was a first watch for me i got a second watch in on it uh pick up a lot more the second time through on this but it did hit stood out to me the just that whole idea of um
00:04:10
Speaker
like we said in the intro, kind of opening a door that you can't close anymore. You invite something in, you do something out of a moment of heightened emotion that you cannot take back.
00:04:24
Speaker
And I thought this movie does a really nice job of kind of twisting that idea of a story, bringing it to us in a different fashion. We've seen this ah teenage experiments with the occult and unlocks whatever many, many times.
00:04:46
Speaker
But I thought the presentation here with that, I can't remember the last time I saw one that was like, kill my mom. I can't remember the last time I saw one of those. And I'm thinking like,
00:04:59
Speaker
ah the eighties, teenager call movies where I'll be honest, they were a lot more fun than this movie. This isn't a fun movie, but, ah I thought they did a nice job with that. The twist ending was really impactful.
00:05:19
Speaker
You know, you think maybe you're getting out of this and you don't, but it's, I, was I was, was pretty well impressed with the ideas behind this story and the story that it tells.
In-depth Film Analysis
00:05:32
Speaker
Sean,
00:05:36
Speaker
we can go for spoilers because it has been out long enough. are Our rule is that if it's a new release, like within the month, or if it's in theaters, basically it's once it's out on streaming or physical media, you can spoil it.
00:05:51
Speaker
That's fair. had watched this in 2018, and it immediately... and it immediately endeared itself to me because it reminds me a lot of one of my favorite george romero films um season of the witch which is so similar and in fact i went to watch that at right after and realized like my dvd's gone so i had to order i good reason upgrade but yeah very similar it's it's just obviously you know move the time needle up a couple decades and instead of a wife and a husband it's a daughter and a mother
00:06:30
Speaker
um the thing that really stood out other than the general setup as you describe it tim there's a scene like a contortionist scene oh yeah don't know if it's a contortionist or if if it's like a ah digital graphic i'm not sure i think it's a contortionist but the i think it's contortionist yeah i would yeah agree yeah the movement stayed with me man it's like one of the creep it's so brief but it is Wow.
00:06:58
Speaker
But I had somehow forgotten the ending. And so watching it this time, like I don't I didn't have any preconceived notion watching at this time, like of what the ending was. But I was like, oh, wow, they are like sticking to their guns on this.
00:07:15
Speaker
And it it just really affected me ah lot. uh and i just i love the what as you guys say you know be careful what you invite in and there is that moment i love the moment where she's talking to you know there's the like a cult book author that she talks to at one point and he's explaining to her like oh well after it does what you asked it to do it's going to come for you and just the look on her face is priceless and it just you know it's
00:07:48
Speaker
Man, you invite stuff in and yeah I mean, it's they're demons, right? There's a there's a reason why you should not do that stuff. So, yeah, I just really, really enjoyed it again.
00:08:00
Speaker
Yeah. yeah hes He says, ah remember, um you know, it starts with you and it ends in you. Yes. in you thats Yeah. yeah
Character Arcs and Dynamics
00:08:10
Speaker
So it was it was it was kind of tough for me at first because of how the story kind of just it had such a slow pace to the beginning of it.
00:08:18
Speaker
until you get closer towards the end and she's really starting to freak out. It's funny because you do it. It takes a while to get to some stuff like the author even tells her it's Piwaka is a manipulator, you know, and she definitely got manipulated from what she saw from what she thought was her mother dead in the woods.
00:08:36
Speaker
And then her actual mom being in the house and then like how everything just got so crazy at the end. And the way she was manipulated into to killing her mother, basically, instead of Piewacket really doing it. And you know how it all ended in her, in her fear, her terror.
00:08:52
Speaker
And now she doesn't know what's real and it's just says collapsed in the brain. you know It's just total mental breakdown. Okay. Which is pretty exciting. You brought it up. i Credit where credit's due. I thought that was genius.
00:09:05
Speaker
The Piewacket manipulating her into being the one that kills her mom. yep i will i So that's that's the spoiler alert end of the movie, guys. ah Literally the last two minutes of the film.
00:09:20
Speaker
But it's both ah harrowing to see, but also just tragic of it because she tries to take it back. She decides she yeah doesn't want her mom to die.
00:09:32
Speaker
And then in fear that this thing is Paiwaka and not her mom, she lights her actual mother on fire and then is just, that's the end.
00:09:43
Speaker
That is but brutal. du It did shock me. I was like, damn, she really has lost her nut and she doesn't really know what's real. And just, she takes it so far. i was like, wow, man, she really got had just so young, and and you so young, impressionable and not knowing really how to handle things.
00:10:01
Speaker
Like now she doesn't really know how to process was going over her dad being gone. And then like her mom trying to struggle with her emotions on losing her husband and just trying to deal with everything and how she lashes out against her mom for it.
00:10:13
Speaker
man it it it was rough it did it was interesting as far as the story goes with the whole plot situation like part of it's just sort of seemed like kind of blah just you know angsty teen dealing with death kind of stuff but just the way that it came about at the end though when it all wrapped up i was like yeah okay Okay.
00:10:31
Speaker
That's good. And I do like, I think that is where most of my credit for this film is going because I think that idea of not just summoning something to kill the mother and then having the mother die.
00:10:45
Speaker
That's a story. Fine. Having this thing trick you into being the one who does it is...
00:10:56
Speaker
like I said, I think that was a genius spin on this kind of story that I, in my limited knowledge of films like these, I haven't seen that before.
00:11:11
Speaker
So that that the demon is completely off hand in the most tragic scene of the movie. Yeah, it is manipulated. It is not an actor.
00:11:24
Speaker
The demon is not the one who did it. It is the one who orchestrated the events so that the daughter does the very thing she originally wished for is just that's where I got to give it most of the credit.
00:11:36
Speaker
That is.
00:11:40
Speaker
i already said genius. I was trying to think of other words like just the manipulation of it. It's clever. It's brutal. It's tragic. It's good stuff. So I am actually, we can drop scores at the end story category. Sean, did you have more thoughts on the story?
00:11:57
Speaker
I was just going to say, you know, it's did either of you guys, but and I'm just thinking of this now, literally, because it didn't dawn on me when I was watching it, but I i don't think they mentioned anything like, okay, it starts with you, it ends in you, but I'm curious if the pie bracket is still on this plane.
00:12:20
Speaker
So I thought about that too. When Jonathan reread that line, I was like, so it took out the mom and now it's in the daughter. Maybe or free.
00:12:33
Speaker
Like, did it move? Did it cause the daughter? Well, it did cause the daughter, but maybe it was less indirect than I think. but Because it seemed like she was trying to banish it, right?
00:12:45
Speaker
And because she's unable to banish, I guess the author doesn't specifically, I don't think he uses the term banish. um But, you know, he's instructing her like you have to to undo it.
00:12:57
Speaker
You have to do the ritual exactly in reverse. And she's unable to do that. So it's manipulated her. And now is it just like, is it going to be at that house? Like, it's just another chilling aspect to it because, you know, that's like haunted houses or whatever. We've all seen those movies where they like, and in fact, I think, I feel like isn't the first conjuring maybe is kind of like that where it's like, that's, I guess I'm a level in spirit, but the idea that,
00:13:27
Speaker
whatever happened there stays there. Right. So that's, it's a pretty nice house in in what looks like a great location. So somebody is going to move in there and then it's like, Oh, you know, what's going to happen. i I don't really think so, so much.
00:13:38
Speaker
I mean, with her having done it a little further out in the, away from the house out in the woods, you know, and with the way she kind of burnt down the house pretty much basically. oh there yeah i don't think that, I think once it got, it achieved its goal and what she had set it out to do.
00:13:52
Speaker
I think maybe that's the end of it. At least that's how I feel it would have gone. I forgot about the house burning. Yeah, that's a good point.
Storytelling and Script Evaluation
00:13:59
Speaker
Yeah. So I actually when it comes to scoring the story and how original this story is, I actually gave it a four for the elements that we're talking about right now.
00:14:10
Speaker
I like that twist on the on the story of the classic summon a demon to do my will, whatever. the twist they put on this I actually thought was great so I gotta I gotta give the credit there I it's a four for me I think it was pretty original in that regard
00:14:31
Speaker
yeah I did four as well um and you know it because it reminds me so much of season of the witch it's like okay I like I've seen it before but that twist is is exactly as you say Tim that twist just yeah it does it you know it does everything for the movie Well, like we said in the intro, I think that sense of the alienation part that comes into it is also kind of plays a big role in the stress on her because, you know, once she tells her friends what she's done and how they just kind of blow up on her for it then her own friend, Vicky, you know, after she is terrified after one night in that house and just doesn't want anything to do with anything ever again.
00:15:10
Speaker
like, man, that that really puts an emotional burden on your main character as well. So that really, really digs in deep with that manipulation and that pain, the yeah everything she's feeling and that fear.
00:15:22
Speaker
oh I was at a three, but I think it would be more more appropriate to give it a four. So I think I'm going change my score on that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's what movies are always better with friends.
00:15:34
Speaker
It's just yes true. Hanging out and talking about it I love it. All right. So then i think Jonathan, that was actually a great segue into our characters breaking down.
00:15:47
Speaker
I grade on character arcs. Some people grade on the characters themselves. If I am completely honest, I did not care about any of the characters my first watch.
00:15:57
Speaker
The second watch, I started to feel a little bit more for the mom and the daughter, especially not at first. It's once they slow down kind of after the daughter has already summoned Piewakket and then she starts to see her mother. Yeah.
00:16:15
Speaker
As a struggling human again, like can can you I kind of hated the the first time I watched it because I was like, your mother just lost her husband and is trying to cope with this. And yes, she's turning to the bottle. That's not always a great way to cope with your grief.
00:16:33
Speaker
But the daughter didn't seem to be sad at all about her dad. and i see your we see her look at a photo but like she did not seem she was hanging out with her friends at school laughing with them doing whatever and i wasn't feeling that sadness from the daughter the first watch and then she makes that she summons the demon to kill her mom and then she starts to understand a little bit more and we see that journey that she goes on of seeing her mother in a different perspective and i thought that was done pretty well i don't know ultimately how much i truly sympathize with the daughter still i wanted a little bit ultimately i think this movie is wasted too much time padding the film with her friends
00:17:26
Speaker
And I would have rather you not cast the friends and cast a dad and put in some flashbacks. You know, put in some flashbacks that show me how close this family used to be.
00:17:38
Speaker
And then my heart is broken for what's about to unfold. By choosing to only show the father through a photo and some some mentions, I think it does a disservice to the... ah the sadness the characters are supposed to be experiencing i don't think i fully felt it but
Music and Sound Design
00:18:04
Speaker
i still see that journey that leah goes through of kind of the angsty whatever to understanding her mother better and then being unable to take back you know ultimately if we if we broke this down out of a demonic summoning story
00:18:24
Speaker
the words we say in anger to each other that we can't take back, you know, shouting at her mom in a moment, calling her whatever, using words to hurt.
00:18:35
Speaker
And then you can't really take those back from your mom. Your mom will always know that you said that. And so we kind of, I think we're seeing this movie is ultimately an exaggerated version of that in her frustration towards her mother.
00:18:49
Speaker
She does something that is irreversible. And so i I do see that journey. I like that journey. I wish I felt for Leah a little bit more on this.
00:19:02
Speaker
Felt, saw her emotion a little bit more. But that's, i I do see that journey. I'm with her on that. I don't
00:19:13
Speaker
and don't know how much the friends stood out to me. I mean, I know they're there and I know
00:19:20
Speaker
in some ways I feel like they're there to pad the film, honestly. But i think the, because I think the real story here is Leah and her mom and ultimately the dad.
00:19:32
Speaker
But yeah.
00:19:34
Speaker
Yeah. it's It's weird how he's not, yeah like it made me think a little bit of, It Follows and It Follows does that thing where like the first two times I saw It Follows, I didn't even realize what the ending like manifestation was because they don't hold your hand. Like there's just one picture, right?
00:19:53
Speaker
And I love that when when movies do that, I love that. So this, it's not really like that though. I still felt the presence of the father in It Follows. I don't feel it at all with Leah in this movie.
00:20:07
Speaker
You feel it with the mother, but I didn't spend enough time with the mother. Like, i i am empathic towards her because they do a really good job of of shorthanding, like the bottles of wine. You know, the the there's not a whole heavy emotion like sequence, but there's enough. And, you you know, you get it.
00:20:26
Speaker
I was kind of expecting, did you guys ever see a movie called The Monster?
00:20:32
Speaker
So it's ahs it's like a mother and daughter that are trapped in a car on like a lonely forest road and there's a monster outside. So getting that this movie is oh man, the the mother and the daughter have just the most malicious relationship and I mean it's a among just the scenes of them arguing and fighting are so affecting that it left a mark and i didn't need this to be that but like they have their their roles in this film but i don't know it it doesn't make exactly the kind of impression that maybe i i would have liked it to to get a deeper emotional um connection but i did i actually did like the friends like i liked the fact that they painted this like i totally got what kind of kid she was what kind of kid she was hanging out with you knew that there was going to be a point where
00:21:30
Speaker
you know, we oh, we're all into the occult until somebody actually is into the occult. And then it's like, you're crazy. What are you doing? You know, it's like, that's true you yeah you know, so like, I liked that. And I liked the one, the the friend that goes over there who really tries to like, believe her and, and, and just pays a price. You know, we don't really even know to what degree she paid a price, but her performance is one of the best of the movie. The scene with her in the car is,
00:21:57
Speaker
Like, that that girl looks absolutely terrified beyond belief. um I bought that, you know, hook, line, and sinker. um I would have to agree with you on that one. she beat She was good.
00:22:12
Speaker
Just very affecting, that scene. And, like, you can feel the frustration of, like, they're trying to get her out of the car and whatnot. And the mother obviously has no idea what's going on. And Leah is trying to pretend like she doesn't know what's going on. But she must, to some degree, know what's going on. and uh i i did i did like their characters uh but i could have used a little bit more on the i guess the trauma and maybe more of the father would have provided that i i didn't come away thinking that but i hearing you say it him i think yeah yeah that could have definitely sealed the deal a bit more so yeah that's where i landed on the characters okay
00:22:51
Speaker
So with me, I feel it's kind of a negative arc almost in a way. And I think I misnamed her friend early. I think I called her Vicky, but it it's actually Janice. um But yeah it's it's it's kind of sucks because I got the the one friend who can you tell the he's into her and maybe she's kind of into him, but they don't really play
Editing and Special Effects
00:23:11
Speaker
into that too much.
00:23:12
Speaker
Except the end one just like, I need you, I need you, I need you. and know And he kind of shows up at the end of it all trying to figure out what the hell's going on. And then, you know, her her best friend Janice and how she has that breakdown after that one night after not believing her and thinking she's just kind of crazy, losing it in a new place out in the woods and then ultimately just being frightened as shit and just like, don't touch me. i just, you know, so who knows what she saw that put her in that state to lock herself in the car?
00:23:42
Speaker
You know, so it's like the breakdown of relationships and the friendships and everything, but like you you want to see like a positive end to it. Cause you know, after she casts it, you know, her and her mom start to reconnect a little bit understanding of each other while her mom is scared. Like what did my daughter do to wear with this big cut on her bleeding all over, you know? And then there's the regret, you know, just like, shit, what have I done?
00:24:04
Speaker
So there's, there's a little bit of growth in that, that I can appreciate, but the fact that she just totally loses her shit at the end because of Piwackets manipulation and ended up killing her mom. you it just it ton of It pretty much tears all of that down. It takes that sense of growth away with her just thinking that that's not my real mom and I'm just going to burn her death. It really kind of made me sad and also kind of pissed me off a little bit.
00:24:29
Speaker
I'm just like, well, damn it, man. To me, if it pissed you off, that means it's ah it's somewhat effective because it makes you feel it made you feel for it. And you you didn't like how it ended, but you still felt ah but about it instead of being like, well, that was a waste. You're like, that's not how I wanted things to go.
00:24:46
Speaker
Yeah, like I love that ending, but it's not you know what I want for the characters is not that. But I love the fact that that's what they gave me because most movies wouldn't do that. Yeah, it's like that. It is not on par with, but it is a similar hereditary ending where it is not a happy ending.
00:25:03
Speaker
Yeah, but is. It certainly leaves you going, OK.
00:25:11
Speaker
So yeah, that's all I really got comment on that part of it. Yeah. So I am, like I said, just I'm at a three. The character arc in this movie is good. The, the, the main takeaway for me is I wanted to feel more for Leo's position instead of feeling like you're taking me away from all my friends.
00:25:35
Speaker
I wanted more from her on that story. And so ultimately, I think the character arc for this film is a good one. ah Good, not as in positive, but even like Jonathan said, that negative arc of stripping it all away and brutal ending.
00:25:53
Speaker
is to me, that's still part of the arc because that the positive growth that we see ending in tragedy is still like the exclamation point at the end of the sentence. It is part of that.
00:26:06
Speaker
And so that's where that's where I'm at. i think I think the arc on this is a three. um It's good.
00:26:16
Speaker
Yeah, i went I went for just I think it's from the moment. it's It's just so terrible. The moment that she's realizing what's happening, like as far as like, I can't take this back.
00:26:31
Speaker
I really feel like, i don't know. I had a lot of empathy at that at that point. Because, well, and then just then she has to go through the actual horror of having the thing in the house. And like, don't know.
00:26:45
Speaker
it it was It was pretty traumatic. So, yeah, I did. it I gave it a four for characters. go Go for
Script and Dialogue Critique
00:26:52
Speaker
it. Now that I think about it also, it kind of also pisses me off that you don't see any part of growth about it with with Leah about the grief of losing her dad.
00:27:00
Speaker
so So you don't see any expression of grief and losing her dad. That also bothers me when it comes to growth and sense of the arc. So that with everything else, I hate say it, but I feel like it's a two for me on my work.
00:27:13
Speaker
Hey, we we we do the scores to celebrate how everybody sees movies differently. yeah we all We all get something different out of it. So we're just trying to break it down, pick up on different things.
00:27:25
Speaker
i So characters, there we go Music and sound design. This is, if I'm honest, this is, I don't have a lot to say. I think this is one of the weaknesses of the film.
00:27:38
Speaker
The composed music is not memorable. It serves its purpose. It isn't distracting. i I don't know how to say it.
00:27:51
Speaker
there's There tends to be
00:27:55
Speaker
like a certain sound that indie films have. And I don't know, it's not in the voices, it's not in the dialogue, it's in the silence. I don't know how to explain that.
00:28:08
Speaker
I don't know how to explain that. It's just like it's missing a texture. And i i can't put my finger on it. This movie kind of is missing that little bit of texture in the sound for me.
00:28:20
Speaker
uh some of the i don't even know if the music is licensed or composed for the film but actually i i like those songs other than the heavy metal song that is just screaming i love heavy metal i don't like it it is just screaming about domestic violence is just
00:28:44
Speaker
It's pretty bad It's so bad. It's so bad. and he's saying R, like, I'm not going to say it because this is going on YouTube, but the R word, ah like, it's just assault, domestic violence. And, i'm like, it sounds good. I like the sound. I was super, it honestly took away from that scene.
00:29:05
Speaker
Because in our house, we we are subtitle viewers. We always have subtitles on because my wife can't hear a thing. So well we always have subtitles on.
00:29:16
Speaker
And during that scene, when she's kind of learning about Piewacket, all I can see is at the bottom, the subtitle is going, domestic violence. I'm like, what am I watching right now?
00:29:28
Speaker
i Other than that song, I do think of the other licensed tracks fit the vibe of the movie. We kind of got like 80s synthwave goth tracks and I was here for it. I enjoyed that. So I enjoyed those.
00:29:49
Speaker
There's just something off with the sound design. I can't quite put my finger on it. i But i I just had a laugh about that heavy metal track.
00:30:01
Speaker
It is the only heavy metal track in the movie. The rest of it is like when she's hanging out with her friends, it's those synth wave or dark wave style songs.
00:30:13
Speaker
And then when she's mad in reading the occult book, it is the heavy metal song. And it's just, it's a little on the nose for me, little, I got a chuckle out of it. Yeah.
00:30:25
Speaker
Uh, I, I, so I didn't feel like the, me like there were couple scenes with the, the friends and they were listening to music. And I think it was a scene with her and the, like the guy that she's, you know, it's not a boyfriend, but potential boyfriend, I don't know you want call it, but.
00:30:42
Speaker
they're in the car and I just looked at my girlfriend. I'm like, I don't feel like this is the music that these two would be listening to. Like they with all the patches and stuff like that, like it wasn't even like dark synth wave. I felt like it was a little bit too like bright.
00:30:58
Speaker
um And then when the metal song came in at first, i was like, okay, here we go. And then the lyrics started and I watch everything with subtitles as well. And yeah I was just like, what?
00:31:09
Speaker
I, i thought that i shazammed it but but i don't have it in my thing so because i was just baffled i'm like is this this is a real song this is so odd um the score the sound design i've put you know there's a lot of the scene the wooded scenes i think they do a pretty good job it's not over overdone but the score is very minimal and i think you're right tim but i also wonder if you know there's that thing i always go back to years and years ago. So you remember that movie Argo that Ben Affleck did and I think it won like, okay.
00:31:45
Speaker
So I remember seeing that it was like, I didn't expect to like it it was a really good theatrical experience. I was like, oh i really liked it. And this older gentleman I used to work with saw it and he was like, I hated that movie. I'm like, really? He's like, the music, the score in that movie, manipulate like it tried to manipulate me when I didn't need it to. I would have liked the movie if there had been no score.
00:32:07
Speaker
And I've noticed that since then, I noticed when movies like intentionally try to manipulate, like I have a hard time. I hate to say this because I love Howard Shore, but like science of the lambs, the score drives me absolutely bananas.
00:32:21
Speaker
I'm like, I get it. I get it. Like you can turn it down nine notches. I understand that we're in peril. You don't have to like really, you know, feel like everything's on like a big sign flashing at 11 points of light.
00:32:32
Speaker
And this doesn't obviously do that. So this goes the other way. And I couldn't even tell you what it sounded like, the score or incidental music. I have absolutely no idea.
00:32:44
Speaker
So maybe that's weak, but also it didn't need to. Like, I was still completely invested. I didn't need the music to to make me invested or to like hold my hand. So I appreciate that. So I'm kind of in the middle on on the score. Like, always love a good score. Yeah.
00:33:04
Speaker
this would not be something I would, you know, like usually if I'm watching a movie, what something, you know, and it grabs me, I'm immediately looking at discogs or something like, is this on vinyl?
00:33:14
Speaker
This on vinyl? Yeah. Wouldn't it, you know, i can't imagine this is not because it's bad, just because it's like you said, it's kind of forgettable. So I mean, I, I think I, I gave it a four when I answered the questionnaire, but I, I think I would actually go three and just be very even keel.
Acting Performances
00:33:33
Speaker
so what um geez what was i just thinking stuff yeah oh i was thinking it you mentioned howard shore and i was like like the fly soundtrack the fly soundtrack is fantastic but most of his stuff is crash yeah i mean that score is amazing uh but as the lambs i i mean i'm assuming it's because he was brought into a movie that was probably before it was even made there was probably buzz that it might get an Oscar right Jonathan Demme Anthony Hopkins yada yada yada but the music I have a hard time watching that movie because the music just drives me nuts now I want to watch Silence of the Lambs and Argo again both of them and examine the music a little bit closer because I it's been a couple years since I saw Argo but I remember loving that movie when it came out because I love the town too yeah right so good well the the town I didn't love the town but that's just because I'm like
00:34:31
Speaker
i love the movie state of grace that's my irish mob movie i watch it every year on saint patrick's day and I don't know. Sometimes I get territorial. So when I saw that, I was like, this ain't a very good Irish mob movie.
00:34:43
Speaker
The race is better. You know, like for no reason other than just to be, you know, i don't know. The town is the movie. The town is the movie that made me years ago to get off off track when we found out Ben Affleck was doing a Batman movie.
00:34:59
Speaker
The town is the movie that I was like, this is going to be good. and And then, you know, that never happened. But Unfortunately, but i was like, yeah, he'd do a good one.
00:35:13
Speaker
Anyways, Jonathan, how did you feel about the sound design? not to crap on it or anything, but the sound design music really just didn't do anything for me. I thought it was cool that they had that one metal track in there, but you figured there'd be a lot more, you know, going to some, some black metals, death metal, some heavy thrash or something going in there, considering, yeah how they're dressed and the whole theme of the black magic rituals and everything.
00:35:38
Speaker
so it was a little disappointing in that regard for me. And then the rest of the sound design, just kind of like, whatever. it just It just didn't really draw me in the way that i would have liked it to. So it that was kind of hard fit for me in in that aspect.
00:35:52
Speaker
I can't really say much other than that on it. No, i think I think that's fair. I'm trying to look up ah trying to look up if it mentions anything, if I can find anything. um Soundtrack, here we go.
00:36:09
Speaker
Should have done this research before.
00:36:15
Speaker
Yeah, there's like four licensed tracks in the movie. Honey by Weeknight. There's No Place Like Home by Karash Engrin.
00:36:26
Speaker
I wonder if Dance With Me Volume 2 by The Lords of the New Church. I wonder. oh they're in Weird Science 1985, Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2.
00:36:39
Speaker
Huh. So there's some interesting choices. I just don't. This is a category, one of two categories that I had to come down a little bit on this film for.
00:36:51
Speaker
So for me, I just thought the music and sound design was a two. I thought it was okay. I thought it was okay. Nothing really popped out other than other than a negative, which is the heavy metal song with laughably laughable lyrics. That popped out to me, unfortunately. That is what I walk away remembering.
00:37:10
Speaker
is domestic violence. That's what that's what it stands out. You do that very well. Perhaps we should put together a little side project and cover that. yeah I'm in. I'm in.
00:37:26
Speaker
Yeah. So I'm sitting there right there with you, Tim. I'm i'm a two as well. All right. Sean, you already gave yours, didn't you? Yes, I did. Yeah. I jumped the gun. So I. That's okay. i Yeah. I think three.
00:37:40
Speaker
Yeah. All right, the editing and special effects for the film, there's really only... i don't i don't think that the other scene I'm thinking of is a special effects scene. I'm with Sean. You mentioned that ah contortionist scene. I don't think that was special effect. I do think that was a person, and it is creepy.
00:38:01
Speaker
Yeah. It is a very effective scene. ah And I was trying to think about the person or the shape that's up in the corner of her room at one point.
00:38:12
Speaker
And I think that is a person. I don't think that's CGI again. I think that is very good editing on this part. Uh, but outside of that, there's really, it's a pretty straightforward editing job, not a whole lot of special effects.
00:38:28
Speaker
And I appreciate not going the CGI route on putting a demon in there or anything, please. We don't need that. yeah Um, I also really like that we never saw a demon.
00:38:43
Speaker
We saw kind of the mom the demon impersonating the mom, but we never saw like a conjuring style demon hiding in the shadows. you know i I appreciated that.
00:38:57
Speaker
Other than that shape that came down and stood at the end of her bed, and that was out of focus and just black. So i think those are great choices. ah I'll get to that, some of the choices made on directing.
00:39:10
Speaker
But as far as editing goes, as far as special effects, it's pretty straightforward. Nothing super remarkable other than those two real like scare scenes.
Directorial Techniques
00:39:23
Speaker
Even i should, well, I should say um part of what makes the mom dying so effective is it does not look like a woman in a fire suit. It looks real.
00:39:34
Speaker
oh Yeah. It looks real. And it was hard to watch. So they do a they do. And the camera lingers. Yeah. It does not, it's not a quick cut.
00:39:47
Speaker
It doesn't get graphic. We're not seeing like blistering skin, but we're seeing someone on fire for quite a while. So it, it, it was a, it was a tough watch. So I got to give credit there.
00:40:03
Speaker
Yeah, I gotta ask, so when you said that we don't see the demon, but what did you take as, because my understanding, or my interpretation, I should say, The thing that comes running out on all fours after her that I actually thought was the manifested yeah because that is Is that like in the shape of the mom, but it's like it's darker or something? or So I thought it was the mom and I just thought it was manipulating the mom like that. I thought it had the mom's face.
00:40:31
Speaker
So that's what I saw. I could be wrong, but. I saw when like when the creature busts into our bedroom and breaks down that chair, and you see the hand come in, and then the face with the dark, matted, nasty hair and the kind of dark, pale face.
00:40:48
Speaker
That was what I saw as the manifestation of Piwack, because that didn't look like her mom. That looked like something much darker and sinister, even though it was very brief. And then you see the contortion outside the house coming out the back.
00:41:01
Speaker
I thought that was impersonating Leah. So that is
00:41:08
Speaker
That's perspective. It's open to some different perspectives, apparently. But like I guess what I'm saying is by like we never saw a cut and dry we never saw like the nu from The Conjuring Right. We didn't we didn't see a clear specter standing there. We saw some allusions to it.
00:41:27
Speaker
And in in that regard, I would much rather have hints. Yeah. Where we can speculate like this then like, oh, it's Darth Maul from Insidious. You know, I would much rather have. Yeah.
00:41:45
Speaker
ah yeah And I mean, that's one thing I really appreciated about the you know what they do show us the optics of of the entity they're they're not selling like a brand or a franchise like the nun is or whatever so they don't need to do that and it is an interesting idea it could be like a ah you know gross weird hellish version of leah i didn't think of that um i took it like john took it where i just thought it was just you know i i know there's another movie that i'm drawing on
00:42:16
Speaker
where there's like a demon or whatever that's manifested as this kind of like haggard, like not old woman, but you know, like ah like a witch. um
00:42:27
Speaker
But also they do it just exactly right. And a recent rewatch comparison, I've always said, so I just saw the original Conjuring movie in the theater again couple weeks ago.
00:42:39
Speaker
No interest. We talked about this in the thread. yeah No interest in the in the franchise as it's become. it And my disdain had worked itself its way backward. And I just had like kind of become like, oh, you know, they suck.
00:42:53
Speaker
But I went to see it and i was like, oh, no, like I saw that opening day in the theater and I had the DVD. So I've probably seen it two other times. But I'm like, oh, no, this is a solid flick. And I really like that. I think it's genuinely scary. But and I've said this since the first viewing.
00:43:07
Speaker
The moment you see that witch or woman or whatever on top of the amois the first time, a lot of air comes out of the bag for It's way scary. The scene with the two girls acting against the dark behind the door is what it's so scary.
00:43:20
Speaker
You know, it's just my back just becomes alive with tingles. I'm like, oh, my God, this is great. So this, you know, Piewacket, they showed us about an equal amount as The Conjuring did.
00:43:34
Speaker
Maybe not quite, but I feel like kind of close, but it never lets the air out of the bag. Like it's done exactly right. And the flames at the end like you said like that oh i mean i don't know i i just
Adam McDonald's Filmography
00:43:50
Speaker
was i guess so bought in by that point in time i know it's not a real woman but it just seemed like absolutely horrendous and terrifying because it it did linger it didn't look like a person in a suit and she's screaming And oh man, it's just a really affecting scene. So ah editing, i can't like, it wasn't stylized.
00:44:11
Speaker
So it it did its job very well. There was never a moment where I felt like there was a clunky edit or something like that. So I just went, I don't know. i I really liked the way they put this film.
00:44:23
Speaker
Yeah. The your your analysis of the Conjuring was spot on. Like we Jonathan just recently marathon the movies, all of them, having never seen them so we could do the recent movie.
00:44:36
Speaker
And I just talked about i just talked about the first with GC from the direct broadcast of facing movies. I just joined him. And yeah, the first one is a solid, solid film.
00:44:48
Speaker
And then I was like, I did not enjoy the new one all that much. So, yeah. Even the second one, I didn't see that in the theater. and I don't remember why. I remember sitting down to it one time, you know, I probably when it first hit HBO or something like that.
00:45:05
Speaker
And I just was like, what? How? And I had seen imagery that suggested it would be great. And it just wasn't. So I don't know. Not to completely delve into that. That's okay. Nothing wrong with that.
00:45:18
Speaker
But for me, man, as far as editing goes, i don't really care. It doesn't really do much for me. It just kind of clips long, whatever. But special effects, yeah, the fire scene was was cool.
00:45:30
Speaker
ah Pretty messed up with the thrashing, but it was kind of weird because like the hair was still kind of wet damp, and the hair didn't really kind of burn up like you would think it would for some doused gasoline, just fully ablaze.
00:45:40
Speaker
But I don't know if you guys noticed it. um And I'm not sure if this was meant to be a special effect or if it just happened to lay out that way, where she pulls the milk out of the fridge and it splashes and it looks like a figure with horns. Did you guys catch that?
00:45:55
Speaker
Yeah. I forgot about it, but yeah. Yeah. So I'm not sure if that was intentional or just happened to splash that way. I thought that was kind of cool at at a glance there. I'm not sure how probably that was to a lot of folks.
00:46:06
Speaker
And now I'm wondering how they- To pie whack it and like, ha ha you know, i I'm here. Now wondering how they pulled that off, but- That's probably digital. i i I mean, maybe not. i suppose there'd be some kind of way where you could maybe mark the floor and, you know, yeah something where it would it would catch in that.
00:46:24
Speaker
I would assume it's an effect because of how quick it was with gravity and it just splashing in that pattern like it was. So I assume it was. uh the blood seemed realistic though especially when she cuts her arm and everything when all those scenes where it's yeah that was hard to watch uh yeah that's always hard to watch anytime any movie everywhere I don't like watching yeah that's a deep ass cut too man yeah yeah she really dug in on that one like oh I I cringe it just like ah we we just saw the thing on the big screen last night um
00:46:55
Speaker
And, you know, I've seen it many times. I've seen it on a big screen before, but like the scene where they're all cutting their thumbs. like like god no oh so the I don't understand fantasy stories
Comprehensive Film Evaluation
00:47:08
Speaker
across all time when they're like, put the knife in their hand and oh, I'm like, no, that's excessive. Like, bro, just just pinprick the finger. yeah just your frame your You don yeah really go full slice and then your hands not quite usable for for weeks ah But those the flames, the house on fire is from the external shots, though. That looked pretty good.
00:47:31
Speaker
um Aside from that, I don't think there's... Well, the mom, went when she's going out the woods trying and reverse the the ritual, and the mom, like when they get that close-in shot of her face where she looks dead and the eyes are kind like milky, but then starts coming back to life a little bit.
00:47:50
Speaker
ah That was that was kind of cool. I like that. That was one of my favorite shots in the movie. That was one of my favorite shots in the movie. I'm glad. you Yeah, as far as direction goes, they did a great part. Did great with that shot. Yeah, because it was slow. It wasn't it wasn't a jump scare of like, boom, it was like slow. Oh, shit. She's awake. like Yeah, because you see from the back shot from away, you see the body look like it's breathing a little bit, even though it's supposed to be dead.
00:48:16
Speaker
And then it comes around to the face and you're like, Oh, movement, movement, movement, movement. Oh, no, that was good. That was good. All right. I was a three on the editing and special effects is good.
00:48:27
Speaker
Same three trifecta. a Three as well. Right. We are in agreement on that. Okay, the script. All right. This is where I feel bad. I said there were two categories that I really got to dock it.
00:48:42
Speaker
One was the sound design. The second one is the script. And while it has some great lines in it, there were a lot of things that I felt were a little bit too abrupt or convenient in the script for me.
00:49:00
Speaker
I hated and Leah's fight. Like when they come home and they're just yelling at each other, it seems really abrupt. It seems like we didn't really get, we got Leah frustrated. We didn't really get passive aggressive comments, but I think what really bothers me is when she just goes for the ring and you trying to be a Manson girl. And I'm like, where is this coming from?
00:49:29
Speaker
Like, that's a little bit rough when she calls all her friends losers. i I'm like,
00:49:37
Speaker
I get the sentiment, I get the idea idea of what he is going for with this. I don't think the script is written in a way that was believable for me.
00:49:50
Speaker
Instead of like naming a specific friend and calling specific events, you know year he's doing this, whatever, loser, whatever, it's just like your friends are losers.
00:50:02
Speaker
Okay. um And I felt the same way when she meets that author, which the author, mrs this is me doing a GC coined a Tim pick. I'm not nitpicking, I'm Tim picking.
00:50:15
Speaker
um A Tim pick is he's doing a book signing at a library, which I guess that happens, but... for a call books. Not normally. It's normally like.
00:50:29
Speaker
but So that's just a Tim pick. I'll let it slide. It's fine. um Come to your public library. We got the occult down here. howdy. Yeah. But how she ends up calling him, FaceTiming him later.
00:50:44
Speaker
it was just a little bit too convenient for me. I'm not going to give out my phone number to a random person's book that I signed. You know, I'm not like I'm not going to go out of this.
00:50:57
Speaker
It was a little bit too convenient. I also thought what she said to him sounded like someone who didn't read the book. Yeah. You know, it's like, oh, cool. My friends told me to be here. I like I like what you do.
00:51:11
Speaker
sign my book and i wish you did more of the actual spells. And, you know, if you read his book, you probably would have known that he advises against it and it's not a good idea.
00:51:23
Speaker
You know, so it's just, there were things throughout. There's another thing that I can't remember that was just a little bit too convenient. And I don't know if convenient again is the right word.
00:51:36
Speaker
It's like,
00:51:40
Speaker
It's just too easy or too, too simply explained or too simply expanded on or not expanded on at all. Like the idea is there, but the script is not fleshed out enough.
00:51:52
Speaker
Like I could take this back to what I was saying about, uh, the grief about the dad. It's not expanded. We see hints of mom struggling and like what Sean said earlier, I think he does a great job of not, uh,
00:52:09
Speaker
preaching to you about the mom's grief. You see the wine bottle half empty on the shelf. You see her emotions are all over the place. If she's drunk and grieving, she's upset.
00:52:20
Speaker
Next morning, she's trying to be better about it. Dad does fine. But then I was missing that part with Leah, where Leah is also processing her dad's passing.
00:52:33
Speaker
We get, she looks at a photo, so she must have been on good terms with him, but there's not more to latch onto there. So I know I'm coming down on it. I'm Tim picking on the script pretty hard, but this was this was my, watching it a second time, this was my ultimate like downfall.
00:52:54
Speaker
I don't want to say downfall. My ultimate negative for the film is I wish the script was stronger. I think the ideas, the characters, what is going on is well worth the time, the attention. That's great.
00:53:09
Speaker
The script for me felt thin. that's the best That's my best description. It felt thin. It felt thin. I felt like there were some scenes that were just there to pad the runtime so they could get to 88 minutes.
00:53:24
Speaker
you know I wanted a little bit more body to the script. So that's where I'm at. If you think differently, I want to hear it. Please, please stop please tell me.
00:53:37
Speaker
But I ultimately thought this script was thin. I think it's thin, ah but it doesn't bother me so much. I do i do wish, you know, okay this isn't exactly what I want because this is like,
00:53:55
Speaker
you'll You'll know what I mean. This is like overdone, but you know, the the scene where they're arguing and there's nothing like, there's nothing that told me, was she really close to her father and kind of not as close to the mother or was she really close to the mother? And now the issue is that her mother is closed off because she's grieving. Like there's none of that there. And I feel like it could have easily been put in.
00:54:17
Speaker
Like they did such a good job shorthanding certain things. So I just wondered why still, you know that wasn't there that's a good author the author's like the half man the guy that she goes to for the knowledge or whatever but
00:54:35
Speaker
i don't that was a little bit too thin as well and i see i almost think i don't feel padding i feel like they i bet it was a longer script than what they shot i mean that's almost always the case right but you know or like maybe there's some deleted scenes sitting somewhere that would maybe if put back in expand these things a little bit and they were trying to hit an exact run time and were just editing based on that 90 minutes yeah and to which like you you guys i think both said and
00:55:10
Speaker
um maybe they made the wrong choices because I could have used a little bit more of this and a little bit less of this or whatever. But I mean, I just, yeah, it it was fine. It was a serviceable script. I think the direction of the performances bring it out, you know?
00:55:27
Speaker
i I thought about it while you were talking that you great points. um The other scene that bothered me, and this is, this is silly again. um I watch a lot of true crime, like,
00:55:41
Speaker
a lot, ah a lot of a lot of police calls and 911 call type documentaries. And i have never, never in the hundreds of episodes I've watched heard the 911 operator say, Who's ah who's that?
00:56:01
Speaker
Put them on the line.
00:56:06
Speaker
Never. that So that that was another moment where I was like, that's not what, like, they always say, stay with me, stay on the line, stay with me.
00:56:18
Speaker
That was just another moment that I was like, that that will that that's not resonating with me because the 911 operator doesn't do that. Yeah, that's good point.
00:56:30
Speaker
ah that that That scene kind of, that was the moment, in all honesty, that was the moment that I knew she was going to kill her real mother and not the demon. Because it it kind of, the only reason to include that moment is if the person lying dead on the ground is not her mom.
00:56:50
Speaker
Because that is telling you that the 911 operator can hear that woman. Yeah. And that her mom's alive. And so that was the moment that kind of gave away the end thing for me.
00:57:05
Speaker
And it was mostly because it stood out that I was like 911 operator never asks for the phone to be passed to another person. Never happens. But that that that's my other thought. Jonathan?
00:57:19
Speaker
Well, it... I feel like with all we've mentioned about the dad and that loss, I feel like the script could have been better if they had kind of written in some some part of the intro to include how they lost him and led him to where they are.
00:57:35
Speaker
You know, celebrate his first birthday without him something. Yeah, yeah. Some kind of thing that shows a little bit more about what they're experiencing, both of them without him and like how they lose him.
00:57:47
Speaker
So it felt kind of like empty without having that there at the beginning. um But other than that, it's more about the the few bits of dialogue in the script than anything for me, especially when the author is you know saying, Piewacket can take many forms.
00:58:02
Speaker
Don't trust your lying eyes. you know and you think she would have held on to that but even knowing that being told he's a manipulator and still letting herself be led on by what she thinks is her mother dead in the woods it's like dang it kid come on you know this is a demon it's meant to deceive you oh you but oh these stupid young impressionable kids i don't know And then there's the part where, you know, she's at the park and telling her friends what she's done.
00:58:30
Speaker
And Leah's just like, don't be such a fucking hypocrite, Rob. You do rituals all the time to get girls, but they never work. And he's like, yeah, but that's not black craft shit. You wanted to kill your own fucking mother. i Just say that if that worked, maybe you deserve it And she's like, fuck you. And he's like, fuck you. No, no, no. yeah yeah it's's It's the small bits of stuff like that, that, you know, that, that I enjoyed a little bit, but overall,
00:58:51
Speaker
know it it just kind of is there for me it's kind of blah yeah so don't really have much other to say on it there's the movie has a lot of silence and that's not that's not necessarily a negative but on my second watch i noticed that her and her friend like when they're walking through school or there's i think they're sitting on a step stairs at one point there's just a shot of them doing that but there's no dialogue between these two really close friends Her, the guy that she's interested in. Yeah. And I'm just like, or he's interested in her.
00:59:22
Speaker
You can tell a lot. So this is, we mentioned the conjuring. One of the things the original conjuring is so well is tell you the family dynamics through dialogue instead of explanation. We know the mom and dad's relationship. We know the dad's job. We know they're tight on money.
00:59:39
Speaker
It does all of this through the conversations people have. And I just watched the movie second time going, this is a moment she can be talking to her friend about how hard things are right now.
00:59:51
Speaker
This is a moment like instead of them walking in silence, talk. That's something Mike Flanagan does so well. Mike Flanagan is a lesson to the world and just let your characters talk.
01:00:06
Speaker
ah But yeah, so for me, ultimately, think the script was thin. I think the ideas are that are there are unique and great, but the script itself is thin.
01:00:19
Speaker
And so for me, it was a two. It's it's an okay script. have the story a four. I think the story is stronger than the script in this case.
01:00:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's fair. I gave it a three, but um I think
01:00:36
Speaker
I think it's a little thin, but i also know Adam McDonald wrote it and directed it. So I think a lot of times when you get that, it's like he's basically just writing himself, you know, like a filming script because he's ultimately going to be the one that brings it to life. So, you know, it it's serviceable, like I said before. So, yeah, I just I gave it a three. It's not remarkable, but I think the direction definitely took it and ran with it. So, yeah.
01:01:03
Speaker
Right. I'm mid ground. I'm at a three as well. Okay. so the acting here is actually, hold on.
01:01:15
Speaker
What'd I do? Stuff.
01:01:20
Speaker
So the acting here is actually one of the stronger points of the film. ah We get, it's not, is it, I can't think of her name. She was in The Walking Dead. It's Lori Holden.
01:01:35
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Lori Holden from The Walking Dead. She I haven't seen her in much else. In all honesty, she did a nice job in this. um The daughter is i can't really fault the daughter in this case, as we've been talking about this movie.
01:01:56
Speaker
the emotion that I want the daughter to portray is not really given in the script, but it's Nicole Munoz, Munoz. Munoz. Yeah.
01:02:09
Speaker
I thought she does a great job at conveying different emotion throughout the film from, i for like The way she acts with her friends is very different than the way she acts with her mom.
01:02:21
Speaker
So I think she does a pretty strong job throughout that. She was in the TV show Defiance. She was in Once Upon a Time way back 10 years ago.
01:02:33
Speaker
She was in I believe it was SyFy's Van Helsing TV series for 18 episodes. Whoa. So she's done quite a bit. Recently she was in an episode of the tracker Tracker TV series.
01:02:47
Speaker
She's done a lot of TV movies, an episode here there of TV shows. She was in Digstown, ah upcoming Gen Zeros. I don't know anything about that one.
01:03:01
Speaker
ah But... I thought she was good. i i she really did stand out for me. I think the guys in the film are fine. They're serviceable.
01:03:13
Speaker
Her friend, we mentioned that scene of her friend crying in the car is, I hate to say it, but that's probably one of the best performances in the film.
01:03:25
Speaker
Hands down. Like taking it away. i hate to take it away from Nicole, but Chloe Rose playing her friend and sobbing in the backseat of that car is good.
01:03:39
Speaker
um She's been in Degrassi in 2011, 2013, Rookie Blue, bunch of other TV credits, really. ah But that that scene, that scene's kind of a show stealer in all honesty.
01:03:54
Speaker
She did a really good job in that.
01:04:00
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like ah that is definitely the key performance in the film, but also the the end. you know it But with the mother burning, I'm sure there's a stunt person and there's overdub. So I don't yeah really i can't really say. That's really more to editing and and acting.
01:04:17
Speaker
I'm sorry, editing and directing. But I did feel like um
01:04:25
Speaker
Nicole did ah great job. i mean so And so so did Laurie. um I think they did great jobs. and just but I mean, Laurie doesn't... I don't feel like she gets a lot to work with because it's really more...
01:04:37
Speaker
we follow Nicole so much more. um But yeah does she just, she felt like somebody, Nicole felt like somebody I knew. Like, I think she reminded me of somebody i went to high school with or something. I don't know, but she very, just, I felt like even the silences that you mentioned didn't bother me because they they felt like I think Adam McDonald was really trying to not go in for a lot of things, dramatic tropes that other people do. And, you know, I mean, that's awesome. He stuck to it. It doesn't necessarily mean that it works.
01:05:10
Speaker
Right. But I think for the most part here it did. So, yeah, i I would agree. Chloe Rose, as Janice, has the she steals the show in that scene. And then, you know, Nicole and Laurie both held it down for pretty, pretty damn good.
01:05:27
Speaker
Jonathan? They've all got some interesting TV credits. It's interesting that Lori was on the boys oh and X files and some other cool stuff, you know, and then she called the boys.
01:05:38
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It looks like the most that was that was one of her most recent roles was on the boys as press and Countess. I haven't seen the newest season, so that would be why i don't. she was like Walking dead Chicago Fire Outer Limits X files.
01:05:53
Speaker
She was on the Highlander series for two episodes. That's cool. I can get down with that. Like, so I thought she looked familiar and I just, it took a second until you mentioned it. Um, yeah, but then, yeah, there's there's not too much for, for the younger people, um, on the cast, but, uh, it's cool. You know, um, as far as acting goes, yeah, she, um, the friend Janice definitely took the, the, the big stake of it with, with the freak out in the car.
01:06:22
Speaker
um Nicole, though, as Leah, to yeah I think she did a pretty good job between her and her mom, Lori Holden. yeah know that Those were the three top performers in the whole thing. Everybody else was just kind of bit whatever. you know the The author guy that played Rowan Dove was just kind of a lame, weak character.
01:06:42
Speaker
you know Didn't really feel too much on that one. But as far as the tension between the mother-daughter fight stuff and then how they try to be relatable and tender towards each other,
01:06:53
Speaker
you know, after the ritual, that was nice. But overall, aside from that, nothing, nothing really strikes out too much aside from that. ah So I was just looking it up.
01:07:04
Speaker
The person who plays pie, whack it is Bianca Melchior. who is a dancer. Oh, there you go. Contortionist action. yeah Flip floppy.
01:07:17
Speaker
Leggies. You look at her credits and it is mostly like a very Jonas Christmas movie that she's coming coming up. is She's a dancer. Schmigadoon core dancer.
01:07:29
Speaker
ah She was in What We Do in the Shadows as Wraith dancer. So she's got a lot of ah dancing credits and then she was Piewacket in this movie. So that explains that. explains yeah But yeah.
01:07:47
Speaker
The acting in this movie, I gave it a three. I think it's good acting. Good acting.
01:07:53
Speaker
Yeah, I gave it a four. I i thought it was good. And you know, the incidental characters, they didn't need to do much. So it's a four. Yeah, I give it four. And I'm at a three as well.
01:08:05
Speaker
Okay, so we are on to our, we're nearing the end of our categories. We are on direction. ah The direction for this movie is one of those that, this ah this is where gush on it a little bit.
01:08:22
Speaker
i I think he did an excellent job with the direction of this film. So about... While I say some elements are thin, like the script, and I do think, Sean, to your point about like, he's shooting off his own script, so he kind of see it sees it a little differently. um
01:08:46
Speaker
But he does a lot of things in this movie that make it feel higher budget than it is. Yeah. ah And I love that he uses a lot a of panning, tracking, moving shots, which you don't often see on the lower end of stuff ah that are are not simple.
01:09:10
Speaker
I think early on there's that one where we go all the way down the like we're watching them come out of the school. We go all the way down the school bus and around it at the end and watch them. I'm just like these these shots. I said the same thing for the conjuring and I'll say same thing for this.
01:09:27
Speaker
When you're doing the longer tracking shots through places, what you're doing is establishing not just to the movie, but to the audience, that the location you're in is real, not a set.
01:09:44
Speaker
Yeah. And so even if it is a set, it can be a set. But by doing that shot, you are essentially showing us the way around where we are instead of seeing a box.
01:09:58
Speaker
And so that gives an element of reality to what you're seeing. And he uses quite a few of these throughout the movie. And I think that helps establish a reality to where we're at. The the locations feel real.
01:10:14
Speaker
And so I really appreciate that. I really appreciate there was one scene that I didn't that like. It was just a choice that I was like, meh, I don't really like that, but it's personal.
01:10:27
Speaker
But like the scene where the two girls are sit standing outside smoking and the camera walks up to them. hmm. I'm fine with that long shot getting there. It's just the way it was a wobbly shot, like someone was walking, made me think that like, Piewacket was stalking them.
01:10:47
Speaker
And then it just wasn't, you know, it was just the camera got closer and then it stopped. And I was like, okay, it was just like, it was misleading for me. I thought it was gonna be a friend sneaking up on them or Piewacket stalking them.
01:11:01
Speaker
that's that's nitpicking i still appreciate the effort instead of just like showing close-up face shots for the whole thing you know i would rather have that moving distance shot that closes in because it establishes surrounding location it establishes where we're at much better there's a bunch of there's and for the most part he avoids doing close-ups It happens during dialogue.
01:11:27
Speaker
It's appropriately, it was never taking me out of it at all. ah But even when Leah and her mom are sitting there at the dinner table, we see that from a distance first, and then we come in. And that just, I think it's just me as a viewer, that is an establishing shot. I know where I'm at.
01:11:45
Speaker
I know where we are. I know the layout of the room a little bit. It helps me as a viewer feel connected to the scene. a little bit more so i think he makes a lot of smart choices in this and also we talked about just like the scare scenes i don't think there's a lot of cgi in those i think they're cleverly shot with things being out of focus or super dark that we don't need high budget scares that's that's what I hate that because horror movies started out being really low budget effective scares. We don't need big budget CGI to freak us out. It doesn't need to be a thing.
01:12:23
Speaker
So I think he does an excellent job of working with what he has, shooting off his own script and doing a nice job. I do. I still. I'm still wrestling with if he if he patted some scenes or not to try to stretch that.
01:12:38
Speaker
I don't know. But the movie looks pretty good. I can nitpick on it kind of has a gray color palette. That's just a personal preference, though. That's that's what he's going for. I can't really can't really be like, oh, those socks. It's that's it works for the movie, you know.
01:12:54
Speaker
So I was impressed with his direction. I want to see what else he has done now. Like, I want to I want to see his other work.
01:13:05
Speaker
So it as it happens, I've become quite a fan of him over the last couple of months. um
01:13:12
Speaker
First, to your points, I love the observation you had about the the tracking or or wider shots that establish, it makes it real, right? It's not a set. You're not just seeing a little bit here or there.
01:13:25
Speaker
um The scene with the cigarette where they're smoking comes up to them. I hadn't remembered it, but when you said it, I remembered it. and I know what you mean about it's misleading, but I think he's literally starting to just make the texture of his craft at that point.
01:13:42
Speaker
He's starting to kind of color it with paranoia and suspicion. And so that like, that's why that's because it has to be intentional because I don't think there's another shot like that. There's another shot like that, but not done in a walking fashion. Right. So it must be,
01:13:58
Speaker
um But Adam McDonald, he, so I randomly watched this flick on Shudder recently. Well, let's say, let's say, and i think March or May called, I'll come the wolves and it's his, his movie.
01:14:11
Speaker
And I really liked it. And then he's done a movie. There's another movie called Backcountry. I've been meaning to watch forever. The thumbnail it was on Netflix for like, I feel like 10 years. And now i think it's still on Shudder.
01:14:22
Speaker
It's like a backpacker under a rock with a, I believe it's like a grizzly bear on top of the rock. You've probably seen it a bunch of times. I feel like it's a very ubiquitous thumbnail, almost to the point where like when it was on enough Netflix, I just never stopped because I always saw it.
01:14:37
Speaker
But that's his movie and it's been recommended to me based on my reaction to Outcome the Wolf. But he did, he's always the showrunner now, I think from the third season on for Slasher, the show.
01:14:50
Speaker
and Is he? He is. ah we On Horror Vision, we just covered Hell Motel with yeah yeah with Jessica. And man, I thought that show was the bee's knees.
01:15:02
Speaker
I really like everything. i mean, it's also the two writers, I'm going blank on their name right now, but You know, they write everything, and he's been the showrunner for the last couple seasons. I haven't seen all the seasons, but there who there's ah the other season. The season when it first went to Shudder is Flesh and Blood, and that's David Cronenberg is in that briefly.
01:15:22
Speaker
um That's a great scene. That was my introduction really to the show, and it is crazy. Like, the gore in that show is insane.
01:15:33
Speaker
Yeah. I can't believe it. And Hell Motel was a lot like that. So I definitely recommend McDonald's other stuff. I've grown to enjoy him. I watched the first season of Slasher. Well, I think I watched the first three and they got progressively worse. And so by the time by the time it was at Shudder, I was kind of checked out of it. But I've heard nothing but good things since it returned to Shudder.
01:16:00
Speaker
The season between the helmet. Well, so Hell Motel or yeah, Hell Motel is technically not slasher. It's not branded as slasher, but it's flat. It's the same way. Brand new cherry flavor is the fifth season of channel zero. They just changed the branding.
01:16:14
Speaker
Same exact thing. um But so the last season of. flasher which was the second one on shutter the one right after flesh and blood is called i think ripper yeah and i couldn't get two episodes into it it's a period piece and i didn't buy there were so many things about a period piece where i'm like i'm not buying this period piece at all so i may go back to it and give it another shot at some point but it rubbed me really wrong right off the bat.
01:16:43
Speaker
Okay. That's I felt the so if I remember correctly, I'm glad you said it. I felt the same way. um Because I did try to watch Ripper because I love Jack the Ripper history. I i I'm fascinated by morbid crap.
01:16:58
Speaker
um So I was intrigued by that. But I think I made it one episode. And I think if I remember correctly, the thing that bothered me the most was the dialogue was so modern.
01:17:11
Speaker
There was a lot about it that was modern. In fact, I think I was even like, is this supposed to be like that anachronistic, um what's the... Baz Luhrmann, who I hate. I mean, i just it just makes me angry. Just his name makes me angry.
01:17:25
Speaker
So that like made me but run screaming from Ripper. I agree 100% with him. It was too modern. When you say that, it's weird because I love his Great Gatsby movie. I think that's the only one I love, though. I truly do love the Great Gatsby movie.
01:17:38
Speaker
But it is like there was just something about it that felt weird and not – period accurate you're trying to go for a period piece do it correctly don't don't try to modernize the language and all that yeah like it bothered me but yeah oh just real quick i yeah i never saw the gaspy movie you know why it looks amazing and it's my favorite novel and i was like fine and i didn't really know much about las baslerman at that point time the fact that it's got a hip-hop soundtrack
01:18:13
Speaker
I literally felt like I was going to lose my mind because I'm sorry. It's a movie about the jazz age. like It is. No, I know exactly. i totally, I cannot tell you, i cannot explain to you why, because I hate the hip hop soundtrack.
01:18:31
Speaker
Even, but I tend to forget it when I think about the movie. When I go back and think about it later, that's not what I remember. I remember, like, even now, ah my wife and I watched it a couple weeks ago.
01:18:44
Speaker
i It's pretty CGI heavy. He uses a lot of CGI backgrounds and stuff like that. but it's still beautiful to look at. Like, man, there's something I can't tell you. I do think it's the story. i think the back the backbone of the story is just what I love. But Baz Luhrmann has a visual style that that movie specifically stands out for some reason i'm not gonna i'm not saying you should like it or anything no again i'm not saying you shouldn't you know yeah i'm just like that is that is one that i do go to ah spoiler sean i already talked to jessica about this a long time ago i watched it and i said why has no one written a jazz age slasher
01:19:28
Speaker
And so I i started, i was like, Jessica, can you think of many like time period based slashes? No.
01:19:39
Speaker
And then with the howling, is that right?
01:19:45
Speaker
Not the howling. No, not yet. Uh,
01:19:50
Speaker
Yeah, and that definitely not the howling because that's that's what it was made, I think. Right. Like 80, 81. Yeah. um But basically, I started brainstorming, getting into my outline done for a jazz age slasher because I watched that great Gatsby movie and i was like, we need to have a jazz age slasher. There's a lot we could do with this.
01:20:11
Speaker
What can we do with it? So I started brainstorming. Okay. Jonathan, we've been jabbing and taking your comments on the director. That's okay. Not a big deal. You get some points where you get like the the parts where she, do I say it?
01:20:32
Speaker
I'm going to organize my thoughts here real quick. I got so lost. um The scene where she's asleep in bed and the that shadow creeps up on her. that it's all dark wood throughout this entire house for the most part, you know, and the fact that they made those doors white so that you could see the pop of that shadow was a good sense on their part for that, you know in order to make that work.
01:20:54
Speaker
So, I mean, I appreciated that. um When she wakes up in the woods the next morning, doesn't know where she is. And then when she like runs, gets back to the house,
01:21:06
Speaker
As she's trying to scrub the blood and everything off her hand, you know, how everything kind of goes shaky and fuzzy and blurry to kind of enhance that sense of panic and confusion and not know where you are, what's going on, I think was a really nice touch.
01:21:20
Speaker
So I really appreciated how they did that. Other than that, ah also the scene comes to mind where she's getting off the bus, coming back to the house, when she's getting ready to undo everything.
01:21:33
Speaker
And she's walking down the road and then she hears footsteps behind her. And you don't know who or what is there. And she never looks back. It keeps that tension really moving.
01:21:44
Speaker
it really sticks with you because you don't see anything behind her. And I like the intention behind that. So I thought that was pretty good as well.
01:21:54
Speaker
Yeah, that's cool that they don't show it. It's a lot like they never tell us what happens to the friend, right? I love that they, I don't want to know. like yeah want i kind of did want to know. I didn't sense the tension that they'd left in there. i was like, oh, that aggravated me, but it's like, it's okay. yeah makes you It makes it I don't know, scarier, but it it that definitely, I'm always impressed when people cannot do that.
01:22:15
Speaker
You know what mean? Like, because the obviously, like, yeah I want to know, and I'm sure they want to tell me, but it's like, no, let's just leave it, so. Oh, it was the movie I was thinking of was the Prowler that has those flashbacks. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yeah, a good flick.
01:22:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's a great movie. I love and i love the historical flashbacks that happened. But yeah, so as far as direction for the movie, we're currently talking about pie. ah I
Director's Budgeting Skills
01:22:43
Speaker
gave it a four. I was impressed. I want to see more of this guy's work. I think he did a great job directing this, working with a tiny budget and making it look bigger than it is.
01:22:55
Speaker
I was impressed. Good use of camera work. and I want to see more. I'm going to have check out Hell Motel. It's probably do that as soon as we're done with this. It's is really fun. I felt like it might have been the horror event. not the you know It's not my favorite thing, but as far as an event kind of viewing thing,
01:23:12
Speaker
It might have been the horror event of the year. Like, I really had good time. But yeah, I gave it a four for directing. i I think he did a really great job. And, you know, if it's a movie I'll put it on my shelf eventually, for sure.
01:23:26
Speaker
Awesome.
Cultural Significance and Impact
01:23:29
Speaker
Jonathan, then did you give yours? Oh, sorry. I'm on the three. Okay. All right. So the it factor for this one, this is a tough movie. um I got to be honest. This is a tough one for me to score the cultural significance of because I've barely heard of it.
01:23:46
Speaker
I did not know of its release. I haven't heard anybody talking about it. ah Not aware of any sequels in the work. um So for me, I mean, this is nice and short. Generally, I base it factor on Are people talking about it, tweeting about it, and tweeting? That's the thing of the past.
01:24:10
Speaker
Posting about it, making TikToks. I'm not seeing that, which is also why i like that we're we're doing an episode about it because I haven't seen a lot about this movie, but I still hear it being recommended.
01:24:22
Speaker
So for me, it's pretty low on the culture of significance just because it is such an unknown for me. Don't know much about it.
01:24:34
Speaker
Yeah, I would I would second that. oh I think like culturally, it does such a good job of capturing an age like ah our modern, you know, era's teenage experience. Like i I felt it could have more cultural significance, but also like I don't are people that age watching movies like this? Maybe, you know, I mean, I'm I don't know. But Yeah, i don't I don't feel like, not through any fault of the film, I don't think it has much of a cultural significance. and i think that's a shame and hopefully maybe, you know, if we talk it and other people talk about it that could change.
01:25:17
Speaker
No, do you you you mentioned it does a great job with showing current date. Jonathan usually does an excellent job of examining it, the in factor that way, like how it resonates, reflects certain time period stories.
01:25:32
Speaker
I usually look at it more as like, are people talking about it? No? Okay. But you you brought up a good point. It does do a nice job of that.
01:25:43
Speaker
um yeah i don't really have much to say on it because like said i had no idea this film existed until it was on our list um for our folk horror picks and i've never heard anybody talk about it like there's like next to no kind of notoriety of anything that ever came up that i was aware of so i i just don't feel like there's much there to grab on to as far as having a kind of like real impact in in any kind of circles really because mean, you don't really see much of this kind of story in this kind of way. And I don't know if you're going to see much more like this.
01:26:19
Speaker
So, eh, kind of falls flat for me. Yeah, I think, I mean, I'm with i'm with you, Sean. I'm like, it does do a nice job of kind of reflecting the modern day outcast team side, but I'm just not seeing enough conversation around the film to
01:26:42
Speaker
And maybe, and you know, this movie came out in 2017 before there was this big, like the horror community on social media is thriving right now, is bigger than I've ever seen it.
01:26:56
Speaker
People blowing up everywhere. So maybe if this movie was released today, we'd have a different conversation about it. I don't know. It really doesn't feel old. It doesn't feel almost 10 years old.
01:27:08
Speaker
Like, That's weird to think about that 2017 was eight years ago. ah But yeah so for me, the it factor, the cultural significance of it, I'm at a one for this.
01:27:24
Speaker
I think that's fair. you know I kind of wonder, like, is it is this even so I think we're all saying it's kind of represent representing of you know the modern or it I'm saying it, Tim, you're seconding it, Jonathan, I don't want to put words in your mouth. you know but But I feel like growing up as I did and the music I listened to and the friends I had and you know I had an interest in the occult. and But I don't like, is it still a thing? like Do teenagers still do that?
01:28:01
Speaker
like I don't know.
Teenage Interests and Cultural Trends
01:28:03
Speaker
um That's really going to kind of haunt me now. I mean, you'd almost think that, of course, but maybe not. From teaching junior high, ah at least where I was at, the the answer is no. That's so weird.
01:28:19
Speaker
And just just where I was at, I did not see interest in that at all. um And I'm not going to get into the a side conversation about it.
01:28:30
Speaker
Like those same kind of goth outcast kids that I grew up as a part of, as I grew up with, their interest has shifted away from that into other niches online that you know, I never associated with back then.
01:28:50
Speaker
And that's that's where they're gravitating. They still dress like I might have in in that day. But the interests are totally different. Even I was surprised teaching art to junior hires that like, you know, maybe shame on me seeing the goth kids walk in. I was like, yes.
01:29:09
Speaker
Yes, we' we're going to and then they were like, not even understand any of the things that I resonated with back then back.
01:29:20
Speaker
Yeah. So it was it's very interesting. I don't part of me just wonder. I mean, i was born in the satanic panic. I think yeah we're so far past.
01:29:33
Speaker
and want to say so far, it's still there, but like, we don't have people freaking out about witchcraft and Harry Potter anymore. Now, now those are like a museum sense, right? Like, you know, I mean,
01:29:46
Speaker
it I
Music Scene Resurgence
01:29:48
Speaker
don't know. That's really interesting to me. i I just remember. I just remember growing up. My mom wouldn't let us read Harry Potter because of witchcraft. And now she has read the series multiple times and loves the books.
01:30:00
Speaker
Like, like, i just, I just, i think we've just shifted away from that into different interests. So I, I don't know. I don't know. I mean,
01:30:12
Speaker
when we still it's also interesting because recently articles have reported that rock and heavy metal are doing better than they ever have in musical charts like it is on the on this i shouldn't say better than ever like the 80s was peak for that time for that stuff but it is on the rise again and is outpacing other genres of music but i just think the clientele is different now I don't I don't know it's a weird thing going on weird times we live in don't quite I'm not gonna pretend it goes in waves man you know because like I said you had in the 80s and then like late 90s early 2000s resurgence and then the stuff you've got coming out now it's almost like in every 10 year you get a cycle of new stuff that comes about with the music stuff so even though it's it seems like it's doing better you don't really see a lot of the rocker kids too much unless you're at like a concert
01:31:07
Speaker
you know just on the everyday life like even in my hometown and back in arkansas like even the high school kids there you don't really see that kind of goth rock kid element anymore everything's so homogeneous and blended you know and everyone's got this like so many facets of interest it it doesn't really stand out as much like it used to we're gonna see him on monday jonathan but yeah we're seeing poppy you know you know poppy sean i i know yeah i know who she is i i don't know how i feel about poppy i love
01:31:39
Speaker
I love her new album. Her song with Courtney LaPlante and Amy Lee Evanescence. Fantastic. Very good. just have a crush on Poppy, so that's fine. I used to have a huge crush on Amy Lee back in the day.
01:31:53
Speaker
She very much. That was is kind of where I'm suspicious because I'm a big, well, I was a big Grimes fan. and like Yeah. um Everything after Art Angels, no thanks.
01:32:06
Speaker
But um i knew Poppy is kind of like in that vein. and then when she had her new like the heavy look and i'm like i see what you're doing because i can't not look at you because you're hot and you're you've nailed that look yeah you got me my whole life right you and i know why you switch to this because you're like if i dress like this to make this music i'll have a captive audience of men you know or males so that makes me suspicious um so i haven't really given the music too much of us Well, she had to break away from like the people that she was coordinating with before because they wanted her to be a certain way that she didn't want to follow. yeah And so she broke off and then started making her new stuff, which has a lot more fire to it.
01:32:49
Speaker
Because like back when she started out where she was all platinum blonde, white haired and creepy and shit, that didn't quite work for me. But the stuff she's been putting out lately that was pretty solid. Okay, the new album is really solid, um but sidetracking here. but She is partnered up with I don't know how you feel about Bring Me the Horizon.
01:33:09
Speaker
but i don't know them. Okay, Bring Me the Horizon is one of the more modern metalcore titans, but they fired one of their key songwriters. They parted ways with him.
01:33:23
Speaker
And he is like with Poppy. I don't know that they're with each other, but almost every song he is a co-writer on. So like she has this huge relationship with him now and that they are he has bridged the gap. He is the reason we got the Amy Lee, Poppy, Courtney LaPlante crossover because he knows all of them, got them all together.
01:33:50
Speaker
He's the reason we got the baby metal, Poppy, for those people who like baby metal. then But like, they're okay. guess He's kind of coordinating all this. He's kind of the genius behind it. But I think, like Jonathan said, Poppy kind of broke off of the people who are coordinating her image before.
01:34:07
Speaker
and is doing what she wants and has hooked up with Jordan fish. And it's like a match made in habit heaven, heaven. It's been, I'm loving it. So check out her song. I disagree. Okay. Great song. And it kind of gives you a little bit of insight into that as well.
01:34:22
Speaker
Okay. We can, we can, I love the centers falling out. I can't wait for that. But anyways, ah we, we digress again. We're having a good conversation. We're just hanging out, having a good time guys. Hope listeners are too.
01:34:35
Speaker
all right all right i think i gave it i gave it a three for cultural significance but you know or it factor but you know what i think it's a three for me because it's hitting my day now i think it's yeah it might even be just like a zero just because i don't know that it's going to resonate with that age group or no No, I think that's i think you that it resonates with you. i think it's perfectly fair to give it a three. That's why we do it.
01:35:03
Speaker
Jonathan? i'm I'm a one. Okay. I'm a one as well. So then we are moving into the final thoughts. How entertained were you?
01:35:16
Speaker
Your final thought, and then we'll give the final scores. I've got your final score, Sean, here for us. But do you want to give your, well, I'll just keep the order we've got going.
01:35:31
Speaker
All
Emotional Depth and Connection
01:35:32
Speaker
right. So for me, this movie improved on my second watch.
01:35:38
Speaker
I don't know what it was about my first watch. I think my first watch, it was that disconnect. I wasn't really feeling for Leah and I was kind of like, well, you get what you ask for. Like, I and don't feel bad for you.
01:35:49
Speaker
And then that second watch, I started to pick up more on some of that depth that was happening. There are moments of this movie where I kind of zone in and zone out, even in like, I left my phone upstairs. It wasn't in the basement with me. yeah And I still kind of zoned out on the second watch. Right around, there's like this gap right after she performs her, the little ritual and cuts her arm, hand her arm, and then the mom helps.
01:36:20
Speaker
There's just like this, little there's a couple moments there that I'm like, my interest wanes just a little. And then there's some good emotional connection there. And it kind of, kind of wobbles a little bit for me.
01:36:33
Speaker
But I think this movie improves upon rewatching. I think you pick up more on those little subtle emotional moments. I still wish, i think ultimately I'd enjoy this movie far more if I had less friends. I'm not saying no friends, but less friends and more dad.
01:36:54
Speaker
Because dad is kind of the crux to the story. Mom is... in her situation because dad died. They are moving because of the grief of living in the house with memories of dad.
01:37:10
Speaker
And that is not expanded on greatly in the film. So I do think if we brought in some, even like we said, Celebrate his first birthday with him being gone.
01:37:23
Speaker
Do something as a mother and daughter to connect to the fact that you're both missing somebody early. And then I'm fine with, with hey, you're hanging out with your friends. Maybe they're a bad influence, like moms always say.
01:37:41
Speaker
you know Then we can get into all of that stuff and it's fine. But there wasn't this connection early enough for me to feel for Leah. And then by the time i start to connect, I'm like, well, I already see where this is headed. She's already opened a door she can't close and things are going poorly.
01:38:01
Speaker
So I want to feel and i i I say this all the time in my movies, in our reviews is I need to feel for the characters. I need to feel for them and I need to feel for them pretty early because character is one of the most important parts of the story for me is that character.
01:38:19
Speaker
And so I'm not saying these characters are bad, I'm saying I needed that connection sooner because that second watch, I had established that connection. I understood the first watch I didn't.
01:38:31
Speaker
And so the first watch I was meh once the that's why I think it will improve maybe third, fourth watch of this movie. It actually tugs a little bit more because I understand it better.
01:38:42
Speaker
But I think just need a little bit more upfront for me to connect with Leah. I actually thought mom was fine because she's not the main character and we get that she's i think the first time we see her isn't she in bed like go do whatever and there's wine on the table and she's very apathetic and then the next time we see her she's like making breakfast and it's almost like she's making to me i saw that she is making up for her lack of caring the night before and so i'm able to connect that right away there was more in those two shots of mom
01:39:22
Speaker
than I necessarily got with Leah early on. So that that that does something for me. I do think the ending is genius. I think this twist on that summoning something you can't put away and how it manipulates Leah is entirely unique.
01:39:39
Speaker
I just don't know that I'm running back to this movie anytime soon to watch it. Will I watch it again? Probably, yes. ah am I going watch it again this year probably not but it is one I will watch again so I am I'm at a six on this it's not not bad but I'm I'm at a six on it oh that's fair I I gave it a nine uh I actually think my experience watching it was an eight but it's not the movie's fault it's like i used to have this very
01:40:12
Speaker
mean used to we're talking like 20 years ago right very curated way that i would watch movies and i just it i can't do it now because you know like i watch movies with my girlfriend and her mother lives with us and so i can't you know i used to only watch movies at night no lights on in the house maybe alter my state of mind a little bit and just ah you'd be able to sink in and I just can't do that now because if I alter yeah so well that's what I do now right i I I'll drink beers because if I'm in a different state of mind and my girlfriend's mom comes out into the kitchen which is adjacent you know and turns on the light and starts running the sink
01:40:56
Speaker
Like, that, it would just drive me insane. so Breaks the illusion. Yeah, and and so, but but I was watching this, and I didn't curate the experience at all this time, and and as, and I think I had to pause it a couple times, and as I got into the last part was probably the unbroken where I was, like, drilled, right?
01:41:17
Speaker
And I was thinking, i this is one of those movies, had I watched it that way, I feel like it would have been just, you know, really, really but it still really affected me and i i it's a it was a nine for me for sure i really really liked it okay for me um like i said it really kind of dragged a bit story-wise throughout the first half of it you know despite the the the the bits of conflict between mother and daughter um And as much as I enjoyed the ending with how twisted that was, overall, it's not something that I'm really too worried about seeing again.
01:41:54
Speaker
i may mention that I saw it to people and that maybe it's worth a watch a little bit. But overall, it didn't really do too much for me. So I'm kind of following Tim on this. I'm sitting at a six as well. All right.
01:42:09
Speaker
Yeah, so this is our dive into folk horror.
Folk Horror Genre Discussion
01:42:13
Speaker
People on Instagram voted for folk horror. Not my favorite. I've said that in every every episode of this series, I think.
01:42:22
Speaker
Cult classics like this episode will come out before our previously recorded um Wicker Man. I respect it. I don't like that movie. i' just like I respect it, but it is not my jam.
01:42:36
Speaker
so Or, spoiler alert, Blair Witch Project. Respect the hell out of it. Think it's also fairly boring. so And that is that is that is me. It's not...
01:42:51
Speaker
It's not my particular flavor. I respect that movie. It's still that scene of her like crying into the lens is still incredibly terrifying, but that's anyways, you can catch that episode in a couple of days.
01:43:05
Speaker
Uh, so together our scores, our total scores would be Sean. I have you at a 37, which would be a three and a half stars out of five.
01:43:17
Speaker
i Am I doing? Yeah, I'm doing my math right. um Jonathan, I have you at a 27. So two and a half out of five. And I have me at a 29, which is three out of five.
01:43:29
Speaker
So all together, our average... whole point of the show, averaging the way we all see this movie differently, brings us to a three stars out of five for the average, or a good choice for a gathering.
01:43:46
Speaker
This movie is most likely going to hit the spot for a social gathering event. I'm trying to pull up my thing to get a few friends together, watch it, do some drinking, rag on it a little bit, talk some shit.
01:43:59
Speaker
Yeah, why not? Call an author that you might have met at a library signing a book about the occult and see if he wants to come over. and you know Hey, we we know a couple authors that we hang out with on a regular basis.
01:44:11
Speaker
So ah hang out virtually, I should say. Yeah. yeah ae They don't write about the occult, but slashers are just as fun. But yeah, that's I will see this movie again.
01:44:23
Speaker
i will see this movie again. I know that. I think there's enough going for this movie. I definitely did not hate it. I don't think it's a bad movie at all. I definitely think it has more to
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
01:44:32
Speaker
do with my personal preferences on folk horror than anything else.
01:44:37
Speaker
So, Jonathan, are you ready to read us out of here? Let's do this. So. i I lost my script. Give me a second. There it is. There it is.
01:44:49
Speaker
Right on. So that's it, folks. This wraps up Pie Wacket, a modern folk horror story that reminds us sometimes the scariest thing isn't what lives in the woods, but what we summon in our own grief and rage.
01:45:03
Speaker
And huge thanks to our guest, Sean, from the Horror Vision Podcast. It was awesome having you out for this one. It was great being here. Just thank you. yeah Always a pleasure and having you on.
01:45:16
Speaker
We love having you on the dread broadcast to love having that. So I just got to ask while you're here right now, do you pick up any good horror comics this month? Ah, um, blood type ended and I didn't love the ending.
01:45:31
Speaker
Uh, but there is a new Garth in this book that Becky Cloonan is drawing and it's not horror per se, but it's horror called the war.
01:45:42
Speaker
And it I literally, the first issue just like hurt my soul. Okay. Did you buy any? I know it's a recommend. You got to be ready. like yeah but it's I do drinking with comics, which is a YouTube show where we drink beer and talk about comics.
01:45:58
Speaker
And my co-host, Mike, he didn't... I thought it would really affect him. And he's like, nah, I liked it, but it didn't really... But it like it hurt me. Huh. Now i need to check that one out. Did you, by any chance, check out Sisterhood?
01:46:12
Speaker
No, I have not. That's the... that's the um Ghost Machine. Not Fear Street. What's the name of that? Hyde Street. There you go. Thank you. Hyde Street.
01:46:23
Speaker
it's It's just ah Hyde Street is like their label for horror books. It is a physical event in some of them. It hasn't connected. This is just a miniseries from Hyde Street.
01:46:34
Speaker
Okay. Second issue. really it's bubblegum horror it's iy Ivy Ivy Thole and Jessica Lacey aisle of like catty bitchy dialogue and characters that you love to hate and you can't wait for them to meet their end and ah the second issue i was having a great time with it I'll pick that up I forgot about that actually
01:46:57
Speaker
oh what happened oh did Tim drop out whatever Tim Tim where did you go oh no Did he have system drop? There he is. I think he's coming back to us. Hey, welcome back to exit. on my back I thought you stepped out of your summoning circle.
01:47:16
Speaker
yeah yeah I messed up the line. ah All right. Anyways, back to reading us out. So if you're still listening after the comic talk, folks, let us know what you would rate Piwacket over on Instagram using one of our scoring systems.
01:47:31
Speaker
And tell us, would you ever be tempted to call on something like this, even in your darkest hour? And the thing is, we invite you to tell us that we're wrong.
01:47:41
Speaker
Okay. Don't just drop in the chat and tell us that we got this movie all wrong. Submit your score in your review. And that contributes to the greater average to get a better understanding of the film.
01:47:54
Speaker
So join in, find those three different ways, three different ways on our Instagram that you can do that. But don't forget if you are looking for more horror this October, especially if you're into found footage, uh,
01:48:08
Speaker
cursed locations and YouTube style ghost hunters check out my novel like comment survive perfect for fans of the found footage genre I would hold up my copy but I sold my last personal copy today so I don't have it with me oh Jonathan's got his there it is a fantastic read I can I can definitely vouch for that I really enjoyed it thank you Sean
01:48:34
Speaker
All right, folks, so be sure to like, follow and share the show. It helps other horror fans find our creepy little corner of the Internet. We will be back tomorrow night with another descent into folk horror madness.
01:48:47
Speaker
But until then, don't play with rituals you don't understand. This is the average where the real review happens with your friends.