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S4.E6: Krull (1983) | STAR WARS MEETS EXCALIBUR? w/ @thenightclubpodcast
23 Plays15 days ago
Welcome back to The Average! We are charging full-speed into Part 2 of our Sword and Sorcery Series, and tonight we’re traveling to the planet Krull to witness one of the most ambitious, visually stunning, and wonderfully chaotic films of the 1980s. Joining us in the booth to navigate the shifting walls of the Black Fortress is the incredible Ricky from @thenightclubpodcast! Together, we’re breaking down everything that makes KRULL (1983) a permanent fixture in the cult cinema hall of fame. From the massive practical sets to the haunting creature designs and that iconic James Horner score, we’re leaving no stone unturned in the Swamps of Forgetfulness. YOUR VOTE IS THE FINAL WORD! On this show, we don't just give you our opinions—we want yours. We’re putting Krull through the gauntlet of our official 9-category scorecard, and we’ll be reading audience scores and live chat comments throughout the entire broadcast. Did the Glaive live up to the hype? Does the Beast still give you nightmares? Tell us what you think! 👉 SUBMIT YOUR REVIEW & SCORECARD: [Insert Link to Bio/Review Form] 📚 WANT MORE ADVENTURE? Check out our horror and fantasy books on Amazon: 👉 https://a.co/d/bUtniBd 🎧 RECORD YOUR OWN QUEST WITH ZENCASTR Get 30% off your first 3 months of Zencastr Pro: 👉 https://zen.ai/theaveragereviews 📖 EXPAND YOUR LIBRARY WITH PANGOBOOKS Get $5.00 off your first purchase with code “TIMOTHYREADS”: 👉 https://pangobooks.com/TIMOTHYREADS FOLLOW OUR GUEST: 📸 Ricky: @thenightclubpodcast This is The Average, where the real review happens with your friends. #TheAveragePodcast #Krull1983 #SwordAndSorcery #TheNightclubPodcast #TheGlaive #80sFantasy #CultClassic #MovieReview #JamesHorner #SciFiFantasy #MovieScorecard #PracticalEffects #LivePodcast
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Transcript
Ergo's Grand Introduction
00:00:32
Speaker
know who I am no am ergo the short in stature tall in power narrow a purpose and wide division and I do not travel with peasants and beggars goodbye
00:01:22
Speaker
Welcome back to The Average.
Transition to Krull and the Black Fortress
00:01:24
Speaker
Last time we were dodging trolls and magic acorns in Nelwyn village, but tonight we're taking our sword and sorcery series to a whole different planet. We're heading to the world of Kroll to face the beast.
00:01:37
Speaker
That's right, but before we draw our blades and charge the Black Fortress, a reminder to everyone watching, we want this to be your show. The link in our bio is live right now for you to fill out the official average scorecard. We want your scores on everything. Submit those reviews now and join us in the live chat. We'll be reading your comments and scores throughout the night.
Krull's Ambition vs. Star Wars
00:01:59
Speaker
Now, let's talk about tonight's quest, Krull from 1983. Just like Willow, which we covered last time, Krull was a massive high-stakes swing. It was designed to be more than just a movie, it was meant to launch a massive sprawling universe that could rival Star Wars.
00:02:15
Speaker
Columbia Pictures went all in on this. We're talking about one of the most expensive movies of its time. It cost roughly $30 million dollars in 1983. For perspective, Return of the Jedi released the same year cost $32 million. dollars So, they built massive practical sets that took up nearly every soundstage at Pinewood Studios, including the famous 007 stage. They were betting the house that the Glaive would be the next lightsaber.
00:02:48
Speaker
It's this incredible, beautiful, and sometimes chaotic blend of high fantasy and interdimensional sci-fi. You've got knights on fire mares, a shifting fortress that teleports every morning, and a young Liam Neeson and Robbie Coltrane as part of a fantasy
Guest Appearance: Ricky from the Nightclub
00:03:02
Speaker
heist crew. This is peak 80s ambition.
00:03:05
Speaker
But to navigate this, to to to navigate a world this wild, we need an expert who appreciates the cult in Cult Classic. We are thrilled to welcome back Ricky from the nightclub. The last episode we recorded with him was recorded almost a year ago, but you heard it in 13 nights of Halloween. So Ricky, it's been too long. Welcome back.
00:03:30
Speaker
It has, guys. I'm here from Granite Mountain. I'm ready to find Howl's Moving Castle and kick the shit out of some Cobra Commander-looking-ass fucking... ah H.R. Giger slop.
00:03:45
Speaker
Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Nice. So Ricky, you spent many nights in the nightclub dissecting the strange and the spectacular.
Personal Viewing Experiences
00:03:53
Speaker
We're super stoked to have you here to help us figure out if Krull is a misunderstood masterpiece or $30 million dollars fever dream. Welcome to the show.
00:04:01
Speaker
All right. We're jumping in. Let's talk about the story of this movie Krull. So ah not a first time watch for Jonathan, right?
00:04:11
Speaker
No, i've been all been I've been watching this movie often again and again and again since the 80s. Yeah. Ricky, this was the first time for you, right? Big time. Okay. Big time, first time watch. It's been on my back burner for years, but ah here I am.
00:04:27
Speaker
Okay. This was a second Second time watch. And it's it's like I enjoyed it so much the first time that would they released the 4K remaster of it late last year, I believe. And I made sure to pick it up because I really enjoyed it the first time. So spoiler alert for my
Critique of Krull's Story and World-Building
00:04:49
Speaker
scores. I enjoyed this movie. But let's get into breaking it down category by category as we normally do. So the story for Kroll.
00:04:59
Speaker
This is one of the areas that I'm going to tell you right now, I'm being pretty critical on the story for crawl. I, and this is, you know, as we're talking crawl, it sounds a lot like crawl.
00:05:14
Speaker
Hmm. C R A W L. So just so you know, we're talking K R U L L crawl. It's different. Uh, It is a typical hero's journey.
00:05:28
Speaker
That's, and it's a save the princess hero's journey. That's, that's what it is. I don't know. It's got the magic MacGuffin in the glaive that you got to get to go save the princess and the big bad that you got to defeat. I think where this movie or story shines is the unique world.
00:05:49
Speaker
No. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, um just off of just off of like initial feelings you know right away, I'd say the world building and the score and the locations and the set design, things like that, are definitely the strongest points of this film.
00:06:11
Speaker
Oh, we will get into James Horner's score for sure. Yeah. ah For sure. Yeah, so Jonathan, what what are your thoughts on the story? i don't...
Character Arcs and Development
00:06:23
Speaker
This is one that like... I don't think there's as much here to pick apart as there is in Willow. There's a lot more going on in Willow.
00:06:33
Speaker
It definitely feels like Willow was trying to give us a lot more world building in the first movie. This movie feels like, hey...
00:06:44
Speaker
We're going to tell you what you need to know to understand this story, nothing else. Like, we're just plopped in on it. Yeah, so i mean, it starts out with the with the narration of what's going on in the world of Kroll and what's brought us to where the movie starts.
00:07:01
Speaker
You've got the beast, in otherworldly entity that is evil, who's come to take over the planet and to steal Princess Lissa and make her his.
00:07:12
Speaker
you yeah It kind of reminds me a little bit, like, because the whole Provis thing about how... Like, Colvin's going to save her, they're going to rule the planet, and then their son will one day rule the galaxy.
00:07:27
Speaker
Kind of like, gives like, so slight Dune vibes a little bit. I'm not sure if you guys catch that, but it seems like there's a little bit of similarity there in that. But the rest of it seems... kind of original for what it is after the fact of that.
00:07:41
Speaker
You've got a great cast characters. They go through all their different hardships. It's like all unique stuff. Each person has like their own specific journey that they have to go through. You know, the Cyclops, you know, already knows his fate, so he just does what he has to do until he gets to that point where he knows it's his end. Ynir, the old
Nostalgia and Enjoyment
00:07:58
Speaker
man who guides Colwyn and everything, it's, you he's got almost like a little bit of like Jedi Master vibe, like trying to, you know, guide the young king to do his thing, to help him grow up and to be awesome and be as powerful as he can be to defeat the beast.
00:08:12
Speaker
Definitely Obi-Wan vibes. Yeah, so there's a lot of different like things that you catch from other sci-fi fantasy films. um But like be like seeing it as a kid and not really having the perspective of all the other films and how that plays into it, being like six, seven years old in like mid to late 80s watching this film, I was just like, oh, this is amazing. This is so cool. Oh, my gosh.
00:08:36
Speaker
And totally geeked out over it. And I still kind of do it, obviously. So... I totally understand that. Even the the adult child in me watches this movie and it's like, man, someday I wish i could I could watch this with my kids. Like, I want to show this to other kids because I know if I had seen this at like eight or nine, I would have been infatuated with it. I would have been obsessed. Oh, word.
00:09:04
Speaker
Humbra. Yeah, dude. Definitely. Definitely. So yeah, I like this film immensely. I do like the story. I like the characters. There's so much to like about it, you know, even though there's certain similarities that you catch now with other stuff that's you know relative to the time.
00:09:21
Speaker
Yeah. So I don't think there's not a whole lot of depth to the story, like we said. So we'll get into the other stuff about it probably a little deeper. But the story itself Fairly simple, fairly straightforward, and not entirely original. that's Unfortunately, this is one of the areas on the scorecard that I did come down pretty hard because it is a save the princess heroes journey, something seen in fantasy and sci-fi dozens of times. This is just putting it in a world that I give it more credit for it because the world I think is fascinating. The idea of like this medieval fantasy setting
00:10:04
Speaker
where aliens land and start shooting lasers at you. Right. Like, that's pretty cool. I love that idea.
Praise for Soundtrack and Effects
00:10:12
Speaker
And apparently I was looking at, ah there were supposed to be many sequels. Okay, this was supposed to keep going. I wish. I wanted to know more about the sun who's supposed to rule the galaxy. and The sequel was going to be about the sun ruling the galaxy, so it would have gone interplanetary with it, which would have been super cool. Super cool. So...
00:10:32
Speaker
I gave the story itself, the world, five out of five. I want more. Give me more. The story is good introductory story to the world. It works. I give it a two, though. I think it's just an okay story. It is the world that I tuned in for on this one.
00:10:52
Speaker
The way they went about building the world and the way they told the story, though, that did a lot for me. i liked the way that they had it all set up, and I give it a four on the story. And frankly, there's so many things that even though I find relative to the different...
00:11:07
Speaker
like different fantasy films that we've seen did anyone else get like the whole r-tax dying in the swamp vibe when they're all like hand in chain trying to go to the swamp and some of the dudes die off in that yes uh absolutely similar to other fantasy films i'm like ah but still i still get before i still get it four
00:11:26
Speaker
right ricky we're over you lance Where do I land? We're doing story. Yep. Story, man. um Pretty low.
00:11:36
Speaker
i I was not invested at all whatsoever in the story or the characters. i Your excitement for this episode is showing. like Like, we're talking about the worst part of the movie for me right now. So yeah at least we're getting it out of the way. um yeah Yeah, the story the story is not not interesting. It's kind of lame. It's kind of everything you've seen before a million times.
00:12:11
Speaker
I'm go be a dick. And I'm going to go ahead and give the story a fat... We're grading it out of out of five, right? Yep. I'm going to give it a fat one and a half.
00:12:24
Speaker
Ooh, do it. Yep. hey One and a half for the story. You're allowed to give it whatever you want. ah True. Disappointing, but true.
00:12:35
Speaker
yep that's like if if i would have felt the need to pay more attention to what was going on instead of just being like oh that's pretty oh that looks cool oh i like that yes you know what i mean then then it would have been it'd be cool but i was just like dude i don't i don't care who you are old old seer guy just
Iconic Glaive Weapon
00:12:55
Speaker
just be a doppelganger okay just do So, okay. The doppelganger stuff was pretty cool. I enjoyed that scene a lot, right? Let's, let's dive into the character because I think you're hitting on something here that I agree with. This is the other area that I docked a bit is that at least with Anakin Skywalker, we got the farm boy who dreamed of more
00:13:20
Speaker
getting this adventure plopped in his lap suddenly and finding out that he is meant for more and bigger things and he gets to rise up and be heroic right we have that journey this journey is about a prince whose castle is attacked and then he goes fucking cry baby that that baby comes out of nowhere he fucking rides in from somewhere else and he's and he's a bitch and his father-in-law doesn't want him around and i don't fucking blame him look at him look at his dumb haircut his prince tight pants is what i i so saw some somebody online called him prince stripey stripey tight pants and i'm like yeah yeah I actually i was watching this and I leaned over to my wife and I was like I'm pretty sure I had a pair of pants just like that from Hot Topic when I was in college. I'm pretty sure I wore those. But but yeah but yeah he's he's this prince and his wedding is interrupted this alien invasion and
00:14:27
Speaker
he's woken up and he's like, oh, you got to go get the glaive. And so we get like a five minute montage of beautiful scenery as he goes to get the glaive. He reaches into the puddle. He gets the glaive.
00:14:38
Speaker
And then the rest of the movie is journeying to save the princess. I never got ton
Script and Acting Performances
00:14:48
Speaker
of growth for him.
00:14:50
Speaker
I wanted to see that, like I said, that Luke Skywalker, like, trajectory and not even he doesn't have to start off as a peasant farmer but where are the moments where like he rises up and is kingly and makes kingly decisions and takes command exactly all we do all we see is him cease his crying and whining crying and whining yeah I'm gonna say it wrong he he's crying and whining on them steps and then you know he stops and that's like all his growth right there there you go
00:15:26
Speaker
Bro, have left that dude, bro. I'd have left him right around. This ain't the guy, man. so so Sorry, Jonathan. we're going We're going hard on the character. It's okay. did that Do what you gotta do, man. like The princess is is she is classic fantasy save the princess bait. just sitting in the captured and just like, ah, and then we get some weird trippy scenes with her. Some of them are pretty cool. When she's in that red eye, that's pretty cool looking stuff. I have no idea what it's about, but it's pretty cool. Some cool like metaphysical cosmic crap going on, which I dig. I was like, okay, yeah. Yeah. Plus she's cute. So, you know, she gets a pass. She can act bad all she wants. I don't care. She looked good.
00:16:13
Speaker
Yep. And okay, okay. My biggest complaint about this, which reflects on my score greatly, is that this whole time he's told he needs the glaive to stop the beast. yeah Okay?
00:16:29
Speaker
And then, but he can't use it until one of the classic tropes of... um you You'll know when you'll know when the the timing is right. Like you'll just know. And I hate that. Yeah, i hate that.
00:16:44
Speaker
But I'm like, you know what? It's fine. It's a fun fantasy movie. it's It's okay. And let a lot of things slide. But then we get to the end and he uses the glaive and he can't get it back. And she looks at him and she was like, it was never about the glaive. It was you the whole time. like, where is this? It was us. It was us and the power of love. Dude, that's why I'm like, what is this crap? First of all, he only it to kill the beast one time. Now that the beast is right here in front of him, like physically, not behind like a portal or whatever. Why he... Like, why... I don't know, man. This thing frustrated me. The scripting and the storytelling, this... I was frustrated.
00:17:29
Speaker
Yeah, so ah my my ultimate reflection of the character arc score is going to be on how... the journey doesn't really show his growth and that it was really him and the princess and they just needed to love each other the whole time and i didn't feel like it was all all that compelling of a story never mind the fact sorry to cut you off but never mind the fact that they met yesterday okay they met yesterday and he's a big cry baby why does this chick love him anyway whatever
00:18:03
Speaker
Okay, so what you said. I missed the part that they met yesterday. Well, no I mean, I don't know. I don't know if that's 100% true, but it's like, man, I know y'all ain't been knowing each other that long, man.
00:18:15
Speaker
it didn't say that It didn't come off that way to me. Go ahead, Jonathan. Tell us what i can ah I can appreciate your thoughts on it, but here's where I come in.
00:18:25
Speaker
So... Colwyn, he's young, he's cocky, he thinks he's just going to gather up an army, he's going to whoops and beast ass, and finds out there's so much more than that. They get their asses beat, they get downtrodden, everyone dies except him. He's almost on the threshold until, um, old man comes, saves his ass with whatever little things he does to them. Uh, Ynir, um,
00:18:48
Speaker
And he is a punk ass. Very clearly, Colwin's a bit of a punk ass, right? Oh, spoil baby Spoiled rich prince guy, man, you know? Right, and Ynir has to check him and be like, hey, man, there are so much more qualities to a king than bravery, you know, manners, ah court courtesy is one of them, and checks his ass.
00:19:09
Speaker
So through this whole movie... I wrote that line down because that's a good line. um Exactly. Absolutely is one of the best lines in the movie. But...
Direction, Cinematography, and Cultural Impact
00:19:19
Speaker
He still has to learn how to suck it up, how to sack up, man up, and and get shit done. he He has to learn how to work with criminals.
00:19:27
Speaker
He has to try and rebuild an army. He has to try and go through all this different shit to try and overcome. And yes, it's it's kind of messed up with the whole Glaive situation, but... Where else was he gonna use it until they get to the Beast's castle? You know, there's parts where he can't get to the glaive, use that to cut through the wall that he couldn't get through otherwise. Uses it to fight the Beast, you know, takes him down. And yes, once he gets with Lyssa, it's like, here's the fire that you were supposed to take from my hand, and that's the power he uses to take down the Beast, and that's awesome. Yes, kind of weak, but once you get to the end of it, he's learned so much. And like, even the one criminal that survives out of all the rest, or there's like two of them.
00:20:06
Speaker
but he's like hey here's his key you have your freedom i'm i've learned to be a man my word we're gonna do our thing i wish there was more to build upon that but they do think there is a big sense of growth for him in the fact that he learned how to chill out humble himself and take direction learn to work with others instead of just being a cocky butthole thinks he's just gonna tear some up right so okay i do do think there's growth there in that that's that's fair right so right so Other growth that we've got there is, um what's his name? The the wizard dude.
00:20:39
Speaker
The goofy-ass wizard guy. He's kind dick. yeah Ergo? Ergo? argo or Argo. The guy who is at the our beginning, our intro? Ergo, yeah. Yeah, the shape-shifting wizard.
00:20:51
Speaker
Like, that guy is kind punk-ass, but he learned to be more tender-hearted, formed a bond with kid over protecting him, yeah know learning how to defend others and be more than just about himself, you know how to be part of a group.
00:21:03
Speaker
Plus he was funny. He was definitely comic relief. He turned himself into a goose. He was a silly goose. He was absolutely a silly goose. That is for damn sure. But kick asses a tiger later though, which is pretty badass.
00:21:18
Speaker
yeah my I think the other character that had a great kind of trajectory in the film was the Cyclops. Like he's kind of our our tragic figure. I actually really loved some of the things. This goes into the world building, but the story of why Cyclops only have one eye and they traded the other one to the beast to see the future, but the beast manipulated them and that the only future they could see was their own death. And so that Cyclops drops...
00:21:56
Speaker
Drop some great lines throughout about, um, they ask, uh, our Ergo asks the Cyclops what he would wish for. And he says ignorance.
00:22:11
Speaker
And in the context of knowing that he can see his own death. him wishing for ignorance is kind of like that's much darker than just listening to it on the surface the i thought that was great and then we see him like he is facing his own death at the end and he runs head on into it yeah the cyclops character should have been him getting a pair of bifocals the the comments are great
00:22:44
Speaker
I like i like ah this one back here. It said it's like when Apollonia marries Michael after knowing him for a week. Valid. Valid, bro. There ain't no reason for that. He shows up in the middle of fucking Sicily or whatever, and she's like, yeah, I'll marry that guy. He can blow everybody up. Why not?
00:23:04
Speaker
why Why do I not know what we're talking about? Godfather. ah oh that's it because oh I can't give my thoughts on the Godfather movie right now.
00:23:14
Speaker
ah no It's not my favorite mob movie. So, well, I i understand i understand that. I get that. or Not Goodfellas, Untouchables, but.
00:23:28
Speaker
Anyways, yeah, so if i'm if I'm scoring the character arc, ah I'm sorry it's so low, but I don't think the character arc is why I watched this movie. it doesn't really doesn't really do a but do a ton for me. I gave the character arc a one.
00:23:46
Speaker
Ooh. Yeah, sorry. What about you, Ricky? What did score? I find the characters are pretty interesting, but I agree that they don't develop much and I find myself wanting to know more about most of them.
00:24:07
Speaker
Unfortunately, the stuff that ah that we get from them, aside from the Cyclops, which is pretty cool, ah I feel like it's lackluster.
00:24:20
Speaker
I'm to go ahead and give her give her a two. going give her a two. Okay. Okay. Well, you like said you know how much I like this movie, so I'm giving it a four on character.
00:24:37
Speaker
And then, we got music. I would marry the Cyclops, Travis. I don't care. Look me. Do I look like someone who wouldn't marry a Cyclops? You saying I won't marry a Cyclops? Bro, I'll prove you wrong.
00:24:53
Speaker
I'll marry him twice in Baghdad. but Evan's got 1.5. Skeletron's got a... Is that Skeletron's score or they echoing Ricky? That's the question. 2 5. I'm not sure.
00:25:11
Speaker
Okay. Alright then. Yeah, music. So, Jonathan said, music. The James Horner score on this is... Boy. It's fantastic. Fire!
00:25:27
Speaker
We just watched ah Willow, which he also did the score for that movie. Nice. And it's great in that movie. I think this is better than Willow's. I think this score is...
00:25:40
Speaker
Better, much better actually than Willows. It is beautiful. It is epic. i'm I'm here for this score. You can definitely like, yeah, this guy would go on to compose Braveheart. Like I get it. Yeah, I mean, yeah right.
00:25:56
Speaker
get out of here man means yeah he's got he's got chops it's fantastic uh i don't the one thing i put in my notes about the music itself is like the quicksand scene h where the music is almost non-existent. It gets so soft and simple and quiet that it just lets the tragedy or horror, whatever your opinion on quicksand is, ah of that moment take over. Like it it's, he knows i don't need a big sweeping emotional score right now,
00:26:39
Speaker
I need something that's reserved and tragic. And that's what he does. And he pulls it way back. Same, the sound design and music in the spider's cave.
00:26:49
Speaker
It's eerie. yeah It's creepy. It gave me, it gave me Shelob's Lair from oh Lord of the Rings. Yeah. Which it's like, ah you know, Peter Jackson was influenced, maybe not in definitely not in Sheila's appearance and how he did it, but like the atmosphere and the music definitely had an impact because it it works
00:27:17
Speaker
ah I like the theme of this movie, like the Krull theme. like i did' say It's memorable. I think it's something that's, you know, if you've seen the movie, it's something that you would vermin think like, oh, yeah, that's from Krull. If you heard it like randomly somewhere else at any time.
00:27:33
Speaker
Yeah. yeah and new It's mostly the sound design that shines aside from like the high notes of the score. I think there's sound effects from the Slayers.
00:27:45
Speaker
Fun. Fun. That sound Slayers make when they die. Okay, the Slayers, when they die, we have like a little bit of horror element happening here. Yeah. Like, they die and then their face explodes and like a bloody slug climbs out of it. Like, yeah what that's one of those areas that I want to know so much more. i want to know more.
00:28:06
Speaker
Exactly. What is this? Like, are they like... we get other stuff Are they like in and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles where it's those little worm-y, the like octopus guys inside the larger bodies controlling them? Like, is that what the Slayer is? It's just like a little worm that's operating ah a mech, basically. Right. Is that what they are? Right. There is a novelization for this written by Alan Dean Foster, who's written like a ton of Star Wars books, but I kind of, I want to find it because apparently it goes into a lot more detail because they were trying to build a world and sequels.
00:28:45
Speaker
right There's a lot of details that they had that just weren't in the movie, and apparently they are in the novelization. So I'm very curious about that. I i do want to read. That's one of the areas that I'm fascinated. Krollvangelion. Yeah.
00:29:03
Speaker
Men in and black, alien in the brain. ah That's one of the reasons I want to read the novelization of Phantasm, because apparently there's a background and lore in there that doesn't appear in any of the movies, and that gets me super hard.
00:29:21
Speaker
so yeah I'm sure it does. I know your love of Phantasm. Yeah, man. Yeah. man it's So we don't have to keep harping on harping music and sound design bad pun.
00:29:35
Speaker
ah Good stuff. On the music and sound design, we can go ahead and score it I actually I scored the music and sound design a 4.5. I think the music especially is one of the high points of this film.
00:29:52
Speaker
Mm hmm. Can we do like point ones? So like if I wanted to give it a 4.9, could I do that?
00:30:03
Speaker
I'll do it. I'll do it. I can edit anything afterwards. so because Because check this out but Most of the music was like amazing and like, like I'm sure if I hear it, I'll be like, I recognize that. I know that that's from a movie.
00:30:21
Speaker
That's from like a cult classic fantasy sci-fi movie. But I won't necessarily remember that it's this movie. That's fair. That being said. That's why I'm at four and a half. The music is amazing.
00:30:36
Speaker
BOM! Just fire. Amazing. 4.9. Got it. I love that. and were And we're scoring it with the sound design too, right? So the sound design is amazing. Even when it's not good, it's like fun, cheesy 80s goodness. So it's still good.
00:30:55
Speaker
you know the The swamp music I think could have been sadder. It's not as awesomely sad like R-Tax dying in the swamp like in every story. But it's still cool. I don't need that. oh i don't need to relive Artax dying in the swamp, man.
00:31:10
Speaker
Artax dying in the swamp is going to be one of my next tattoos, bro. I'm going to just it on my back or something. So a brief side tangent. My wife had never seen Never Ending Story. And so we rewatched all of Stranger Things getting ready for the series finale. We got through that.
00:31:30
Speaker
And then she goes... I think I need to see a never ending story because it's big part of the character character's lives. So we watched it and we get through the scene where our tax dies in the swamps of sadness. She looks at me and she goes, what the actual fuck? Yeah. Yeah. yeah bros Yeah. Heartbreak man.
00:31:57
Speaker
Yeah, it crushed every child. Gone pecan. Right. There goes her innocence. There goes her innocence, her faith in humanity, dude. All of it. She's cooked.
00:32:09
Speaker
Not the horse. All right. I interrupted you, Jonathan, though. No, that's okay. Score-wise, I'm a three. Okay. Hey, i we outscored you on that one.
00:32:23
Speaker
Yeah. This guy hates music.
00:32:30
Speaker
Which guy? to doo taa me Jonathan. Yeah. but Okay. Editing and special effects. So this is another one that I actually think is a high point. Some of it has not aged well at all. The fire mares look pretty rough. There are like the close-ups.
00:32:50
Speaker
The close-ups, I should say. i
00:32:58
Speaker
but the close-ups of the of them riding the fire mares don't look too good and then but when we pull back and we see like that scene where the fire mares leap the chasm and they're like flying that looks nice it looks pretty good there's tons of epic scenery shots that look fantastic that i'm going okay
00:33:22
Speaker
ah They used a helicopter, sure, for some of this. but like Exactly, but it looks like drone shots, dog. Yeah. up Some of it is so steady. It's crazy. And when Colwyn is climbing that rock face and I'm like, I don't see ropes.
00:33:37
Speaker
What is the safety net on this? Because that looks like a deadly fall. It's it's pretty cool to see. it is It is, again, one of the high points. The sets are awesome. The castle at the beginning looks great. on You can tell. ah Also, you can tell like the use of miniatures in this with the giant black...
00:34:03
Speaker
Yes, love it. love it. love seeing that shit, dude. Yes. Yep. To me. yes yep the to me These right here, this is why I tune in for this movie because that sense a childlike wonder, I don't care as much about the story when I was a kid. right like I wasn't looking at it like the depth. Star Wars still works so well for adults because the story is solid. But for a kid, you don't care about the depth of Anakin's story. You're like, that lightsaber is sweet. Exactly. This movie has a lot of that like really sweet, awesome things
00:34:41
Speaker
going on in it um Jar Jar makes me laugh boss and ass go you know like that's all that matters Targumont looked sweet he did and when he lit that second blade and none of us saw that come in yeah lost it i I remember seeing that movie in theaters at like nine years old and I thought it was the greatest thing to ever exist. And now I'm pretty sure I can't make it through the whole Phantom Menace movie because it is rough. It is the worst Star Wars film in my opinion. You just gotta, you just gotta, to you gotta get in touch with your inner child, man. Your inner Anakin.
00:35:25
Speaker
Yeah, even okay to Travis's point Travis comments the weapon in this film is iconic though. I watch this and it's not a lightsaber, but I do watch this and I'm like I want to throw it like I want one I want to play with it. I want to see what it's like the gla because I imagine it cutting my hand off.
00:35:45
Speaker
I do. i'm just In theory. In theory, I'm okay with this weapon. um A spinny bladey thing that you throw and comes back. I'm like, okay, cool.
00:35:58
Speaker
I hate the way it looks. I don't know what it is about it. I just don't like the way it looks. I don't like the way it opens. Yeah, it feels... That's a good that's a good description. It feels like...
00:36:12
Speaker
I don't know, it feels like too elegant to be a weapon. Like, like like give me something that's nasty looking, pointy. But it's a weapon of myth. It's supposed to be like, ooh, ah, King Arthur's sword type shit. then make it Then make it glow or something, dawg. Like, I don't know. this This makes me feel like it's the chocolate starfish that Fred Durst was talking about. Because I'm not into it, bro. I don't know. Five-point retractable stabby thingies not good enough? Ah.
00:36:40
Speaker
i just i just i just don't like i just don't like it i don't hate it but i ah i want more i want more from it i look at it and i'm like you could have been so much cooler so that's fair because i think they hype it up so much it's like the ultimate weapon and then he uses it like three times and it's gone And i I think if we had seen it in action more, if it wasn't one of those like save it till you need it weapons and just like, hey, every time you have conflict, sling this thing out there. Like, let's see how awesome it is. Oh, i would have been kicking ass on Slayers with that fucking thing. I did like the way that thing would just sit and just like spin on shit, almost like a fucking grinding wheel. Like, that thing's a Milwaukee, son. That thing goes hard. but But no, we only get to see it twice in the whole fucking movie.
00:37:31
Speaker
i agree i would have liked with it for sure i totally agree imagine that thing just like going in a line and slicing a bunch of slayers heads off dude like in blade now blades little dude blades little frisbee blade thing that's fire apparently that was based on the internet search that i did which who knows reddit's full of liars uh the blade The blade thing was inspired by this glaive, the idea, the same thing. I believe it.
00:38:07
Speaker
So I... Look, Travis, the other thing I got to go, bro, he said, this Ricky guy got to go. I figured you'd like the epic fidget spinner. Bro.
00:38:18
Speaker
It is a fidget spinner. Tell him, Travis. The other thing noticed... The other thing I noticed on the rewatch is the glaive is like it's on the king's necklace. It's in the backs of the royal chairs at the beginning. Like it's so legendary that there's artwork of the glaive throughout the castle.
00:38:40
Speaker
That's cool detail to put into stuff. I dig that. Yes. With the other i just think it was, yeah. Sorry, with all the other effects, though, that there were, did you guys notice how when they're going to see the Emerald Seer and they're going through Rockwall, did you notice the big split in the middle of the scene? Oh, I saw that. You can the line where they did the overlay, where the green light comes out.
00:39:05
Speaker
There's like a line that goes through the entire screen from where they did the cutoff to do the overlays for it. Really? so i wonder, ah i watched my 4K disc and I didn't notice it because I remember watching that scene and going like, wow.
00:39:21
Speaker
they did a nice job with this and there's even, they even like cut out foliage in front of the green light at the bottom. And I'm like, yeah, it's a rough edge. You can definitely tell it's not CGI. But I was like, I was pretty impressed with it. So I, I did not notice that line. I need to, I need to look at that line.
00:39:41
Speaker
Yeah. Where you see where the the green light starts and it just goes and it's like, Oh, kind of not even, it's not even a straight line. It just kind of goes down like they're, Trying to follow natural rock lines or something. I've been sniffing Booger Sugar since I'm 12 years old, man. i'm I'm a hunt down that line. I'm a find it.
00:39:58
Speaker
the That's a joke. I'm not all not a drink of cocaine, everybody. Trying to find you the green mild, bro?
00:40:06
Speaker
I'm not on that shit anymore, man. No. Now there's a lot of cool stuff in there though, especially with the overlays, for the image overlays from other stuff. Like when the seer is actually trying to find the Beast's castle that first time and like you see like a shimmering image, it looks like they projected something on a cloth and did that as an overlay or something maybe.
00:40:25
Speaker
And then you get that part where like the beast's hand appears and crushes the the giant emerald that the seer's trying to use. yeah I like that effect. i thought that was pretty rad. But the the set design, though, also was pretty cool.
00:40:40
Speaker
definitely Like the the moving walls when Issa's trying to escape through yeah parts of the castle and the walls just close up behind her. like It's soft and malleable. It's so good, dude. I was like, look at this. yeah dude got the creature's hand in like the place where they're moving through it's like the giant creature's claw like the beast claw you know and you can see the bav fingers move at the end when the place is like falling apart and blowing up hill it's got those sets specifically that you're describing inside the castle it's got this dream like from the lighting to everything it's like a very god also
00:41:13
Speaker
Oh, it's it's awesome. i I think it's so cool. It's one of the highlights. It's one of those things that I don't understand. Like, they never explain it exactly, but but it's it's really cool.
00:41:27
Speaker
It is really cool to see. The one were... I know there's a bunch of moving walls in this, but there's one, man, where I thought it looked like she was just escaping two butt cheeks coming together. Yes. The way it just closes and... do Yeah, it's it's two butt cheeks and she's just squeezing out of those things. That's all I could think of when I saw that. Squeezing out the butt. It's 83, we're not eating ass yet. No. We gotta run.
00:41:56
Speaker
Not in the Reagan administration, we're not doing this. Nancy would be so upset. Nancy. When we talked about Willow, though, we mentioned how there was the epic effect of the animal to human transformation.
00:42:13
Speaker
In this, however, this is years before Willow, and we had something that's like an early version of that. It was kind of choppy, a little sloppy looking, but you did have the transformation from animal to human.
00:42:25
Speaker
And then a couple different spots. You don't really see the tiger trend, but you see that duck transformation. Where yeah ergo comes into the scene after like flying into puddle as an animal or some shit. You know, the the the shrink down and then coming back to human form.
00:42:39
Speaker
But still decent. It was a cool for effect at the time. Oh, it's still it's still pretty cool. I think this is an area where you can definitely tell this movie had a bigger budget than a lot of the other sword and sorcery films because it still holds up. Like I watched the 4K version and there are only a couple scenes that look rough. Most of it looks great.
00:43:05
Speaker
And that's a testament to the budget, but also the craft of making special effects in the 80s was so different. It wasn't jumping onto the computer, generating artificial stuff. They built miniatures, they built massive sets, and they got creative with the way they filmed things. And that always looks better 30 years later than the computer.
00:43:29
Speaker
So i I love this movie for a lot of those reasons. Like it is a visual feast for most of us. Yeah. What'd you think of the, the stop motion spider though? The white spider in the crystal web area?
00:43:44
Speaker
I wanted to bring that up because I mean, you look at like clash of the Titans, which came out like, I mean, around the same time as this, correct? I think Clash of Titans are earlier, like... Earlier? sixty two years, 81. Oh, was it 81?
00:44:00
Speaker
Dude, like, I feel like this spider looks so much better than the stop motion in that movie. And that movie's stop motion, I mean, while it's dated, it's still incredible, especially when you consider the time. um Dude, like, that stop motion spider impressed the fuck out of me, I'm not gonna lie.
00:44:21
Speaker
I was kind of hoping to get them. Honestly, until you mentioned that it was stop motion, I didn't realize it was. I thought they filmed a legitimate spider and that. Dang.
00:44:37
Speaker
Hey So like, jim I thought, cause it looks, it looks very real. It moves so fluid, dude. The only time it looks kind of janky is when it's going down the web, like crawling down the screen. That's the only time it looks kind of janky. It does that web shake. use that twice.
00:44:55
Speaker
Yeah. That was good stuff. That whole scene is fantastic. That whole scene is fantastic. I'm glad you brought it up.
00:45:07
Speaker
Yeah, it was... I'm looking... i had to look it up. It was a translucent stop-motion creature. The puppet was constructed from plexiglass with solid legs and a hollow abdomen.
00:45:23
Speaker
The hollow abdomen was a cool effect because you could see like its guts inside it. Oh, yeah. Kind of like kind of like like like the little Walmart fish, you know, you can see their little guts inside them sometimes. That's what it made me think of. I was like, this is fucking dope, dude. I like this.
00:45:38
Speaker
It's definitely a highlight of the film. That whole scene is tense and eerie. It's great. All right, we ready to score these effects?
00:45:48
Speaker
Yeah. Five. Five out of five, dude. Even when the effects are bad, I love them because they make me laugh. Five out of five. The effects are incredible. That's fair.
00:46:00
Speaker
I'm a four. And the set design, too, dude. Like, the set design's... Set design was sweet. And even when it's even when it's kind of goofy looking, like, with the squarish spires on the castle while they're climbing, like, I can tell that's a set.
00:46:14
Speaker
But I don't care because I still love it. You know? Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I'm a four. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
00:46:25
Speaker
I can live with that. Jonathan, did you give yours? Oh, yeah. i'm a four. Not only can I live with that, I can marry it. I can go to bed with it every night. Dude, I can go to the retirement home with it when she can't take care of herself no more and neither can I. You know?
00:46:43
Speaker
All right. It's very noble of you. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks. All right. ah Travis is recapping for us. Yes. Four, four, five. So because I did get that glitch again where I can't hear Jonathan. Son of a bitch.
00:47:00
Speaker
It's see you're back now. It's so much fun. i love it. All you can hear. everyone all right great but All right. Let's get into the script. This was Ricky. You had some issues with the script. You said.
00:47:17
Speaker
it's It's just so much like, like, dog, this movie's two hours long. It don't need to be. I'm sorry. It don't need to be, bro. The story is way too simple. There's a lot of beautiful footage of scenery but where the camera is stationary.
00:47:38
Speaker
And I'm looking at it and I'm like, okay. All right. What next? but but But what next? And it's still showing me that, and I'm like, it's pretty, but but what next?
00:47:51
Speaker
there's just There's just too many times like that, and I feel like that kind of hurts the flow. It kind of hurts the, ah what you call that, the pacing.
00:48:02
Speaker
yes Kind of irks me a little bit. So, yeah, trim them seconds up, man. It counts, dude. Like, this movie's two hours long. It don't need to be, dog. Like, it's not it's not the Lord of the Rings, dude. It don't need two hours, cousin. There there are multiple moments where I'm not sure what they're doing. Like, how did we get here? What's going on? ah And the script doesn't really do a great job of explaining that. The script was written by Stanford Sherman, who mostly, most of his work was in TV. He wrote 18 episodes of the Adam West Batman TV series.
00:48:43
Speaker
Wow. Nice. Yeah. So 18 episodes of that, he wrote crawl the man who wasn't there. And the last thing he wrote was ice pirates. So nothing tremendous. Pirates is dope dude. I haven't, but I want to fire dude. Okay. Okay. Um, well, yeah, I feel like, because, because I, I loop.
00:49:10
Speaker
Script in with pacing I'm a go ahead and I'm be kind of a limp noodle and I'm gonna give it a two and a half Right down the middle neutral neutral, okay because I really like some of the dialogue and Yes. But some of the pacing, some of the ways that we just, it feels so aimless at times. It's like, what are we doing, bro?
00:49:36
Speaker
Where's the excitement? Where's the adventure? You know what I mean? That's kind of where I'm at with it. get where you're coming from with that, but the same time, you've got to have the travel time from place to place. They're traveling an entire planet, basically. Right. Even with the Firemares, they to travel a thousand leagues in a day. A thousand miles. Right, a thousand leagues in That's a hella long pace, man. So, mean, with all the plays I got to do, you got to give it a little grace for that.
00:50:02
Speaker
Even though, yes, they could shave a few seconds off of some of those long scenery shots. I get it, but still look really nice, though. No, definitely, definitely. That's why I'm not being hard on it. I'm kind of just giving it a neutral score. It had stuff I like. It had stuff I don't. You know, I don't want to be too hard. on I was already hard on it in the beginning.
00:50:22
Speaker
I do think I do think the travel stuff is something that really. Like it's a staple of the genre for sword and sorcery. No doubt. You want that journey. You want to see, oh we're going through mountains now. Oh, want to see Conan and his little Asian partner running through the the desert and the mountains with no shirts on. OK, want to see that.
00:50:46
Speaker
All right. That's that's part of the story. That's what we're here for. So the script itself, I have to give us some credit because I love some of the dialogue like you said. Yeah, love some of the dialogue.
00:51:01
Speaker
Like Prince Colin. Yeah. Cyclops. There's a couple stuff here. i wrote some, I wrote down some great lines that I liked. Prince Colwyn says the reward is freedom and fame and torque will says freedom. We have it and fame.
00:51:19
Speaker
It's an empty purse. Count it, go broke, eat it, go hungry, seek it, go mad. Like so good. Fantastic line. Uh,
00:51:31
Speaker
Let me see what were a couple of the other ones I have. Oh, when... What is... i don't know the dude's name, but when we're in the glass spider situation and the dude is confronting his former wife...
00:51:47
Speaker
Yeah. When he's confronting his former wife and she goes, since I could not kill you, my rage needed a victim. Oh, yeah. Talking about murdering her own son.
00:52:02
Speaker
Like that is a chilling line. That line is- And she's- Yeah. And she's she's gorgeous. And she was Paul Atreides' mom in the original Dune. I just want to point that out. She's dope. I love her. Oh yeah! This role is amazing for her.
00:52:20
Speaker
Yeah dude, she's got those eyes. I just made a connection in my face. Oh man. Yeah dude. She's great. I was happy to see her. Yeah. Hell yeah.
00:52:31
Speaker
i'm I'm trying to find some of the others. ah Oh, I laughed at early on the father tells Princess Lissa.
00:52:43
Speaker
um oh Good fighters make bad husbands. That was it. Yeah. Yeah. what What does that mean? Cuz like, what is that? Does that mean their wife beaters do like that's hard insinuation. Cut her head off.
00:53:01
Speaker
I still liked it. I still liked it. But it's funny. Yeah. Yeah. As we said, it's not a perfect script. It's definitely got some pacing issues, some issues about i don't understand necessarily why things always happen. and It's not super clear. And it's something that maybe on more rewatches I'll understand. But on my first watch, I'm not picking up on it.
00:53:27
Speaker
ah So I give it a three. I am a three as well. Oh, yeah, okay, hey. We're all pretty close. Yep, we're all right there.
00:53:39
Speaker
All right, so then we have the acting. So i actually think the acting in this movie is better than it has any right to be. Yeah. No doubt.
00:53:51
Speaker
Like there's, I can't fault any of the actors in this film. I think they're pretty solid across the board. I do have to acknowledge at this point, we get Liam Neeson when he's like, I don't know, 21, 22 in this movie. Yeah, fresh out of Excalibur.
00:54:08
Speaker
Yeah. Or was Excalibur after this? i think this this was ask further out here I think this was after Excalibur. Young Liam Neeson, though. It was it was funny. my wife was two years after My wife was getting wet, bro. She loves him and his big ass nose. She's got a big nose fetish. She all about it, dude. She was like, oh, look, young Liam Neeson. Well, and then we find out that he has eight wives seven or eight wives across the land Right And then he he sits down with one of them later and he's like I I'm always faithful. I'm so faithful. Yeah, just love that joke What did he say it was like faithful is my middle name or something like that and they called her petal like a rose petal It's fantastic.
00:54:57
Speaker
Yeah, I love his character and Then uh ergo is ergo you people i feel like everybody knows should know who ergo is i've seen him in so many things but i can't remember can't take sure and i didn't know i've seen him sorry oh david batley yes he was lot of tv and film throughout the 60s to late ninety s Yeah, he was... I remember him from Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.
00:55:30
Speaker
crap. Oh, right, the shopkeeper. Yes. Oh, man. Yes, that that's what I remember him from. Argo, starring Ben Affleck. Thank you for your contribution, Travis. Marlon Brando was in awe. Little-known fact. He said, and I quote, Kroll, I was so wet. Yeah.
00:55:54
Speaker
Evan says, look at how they massacred my crawl. my gosh. These guys are, you guys are really contributing to the scores here. i love it.
00:56:06
Speaker
Oh my God. I love having a live show. I'm i'm not going to lie. I love the comics. It makes it fun. It's great. Yeah. so the acting then again, ah i feel like, oh well, he was in Mr. Bean.
00:56:26
Speaker
The original, the original Mr. Bean TV series from 95. ah But he is most widely known for Kroll, but I remember him from my many watches of Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.
00:56:39
Speaker
um But then it is, which is a totally different performance than what we see here. This is much more comedic. But then Lizette Anthony, i i don't think I've ever... Okay, she was in Dracula Dead and Loving It?
00:56:56
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Okay, I didn't know that one. Didn't know... and she's Yeah, she's a looker too, bro. I'm into her. I'm into her too, bro.
00:57:08
Speaker
Honestly, I feel like the acting in this movie... I'm sorry, I'll cut you off again. I'm a bastard. But I feel like the acting in this movie is held back. sort of by the script in a way.
00:57:21
Speaker
i just i would agree. The script is so 50-50, Like... It's just like, dude, like, of course it's going to be lame. Look at how she's written as a character.
00:57:34
Speaker
You know what I mean? Anyway, she's not given much. She's not given much to work with. Exactly. She's also in Brian Adams' Summer of 69 music video, if you want to know. I'm i'm a big Brian Adams fan. Hell yeah, dude. She's in a bunch of his music videos, actually. That's awesome. summer 69 reckless heaven so somebody run to you she's in a bunch of them but i think he was hitting that bro oh yeah he's bri i lot of i like dude gonna go to bed picturing brian adams hitting that tonight i gotta
00:58:15
Speaker
ah i got You know what song is not overrated, but people think it is? It's Heaven by Bryan Adams, dude, because it's one of the greatest love songs probably ever written.
00:58:27
Speaker
Yeah. It's so good. it's I love Bryan Adams. I don't care. you Anyone wants to fight, here's my address. I'll dox myself. i'm playing. I'm not doxing myself. You got me a messed up, man. yeah that's we got brian adams fans in the house yeah brian adams gang yes didn't know we would be talking about brian adams in the midst of crawl but i love me some brian adams anyways the acting i totally agree i think she's held back by having literally nothing to work with in the film running around big sets just like hu right like's around like a scared chihuhua like like it's like imagine a poodle with big red hair and some cleavage and be that
00:59:14
Speaker
in a giant closet. Run away from the vacuum. You're your. Colin is kind of dry. i don't and not dry enough performance as in like there's not a lot of depth of his lines specifically to work with.
00:59:31
Speaker
Plus his name makes me think of a Coleman lantern and a colon mixed together. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not it's not good. I think the best parts of acting come from the supporting cast come from the the uh cyclops who has to emote without having real eyes on his character yeah so that's great uh ergo like we said he does a nice job the little boy that ergo bonds with ah
01:00:05
Speaker
so It's good stuff. Like, those performances, I think, are great. What's the guy from Braveheart's character's name?
01:00:16
Speaker
Which guy? He's like the bandit leader guy. He's like the only one that lived. Oh, oh. um is he regardless i thought he was good i thought he had a very like he had aura dude like especially when they first met him he's like like this dude is the man he's in charge he should be marrying the princess and saving the world not not this douchebag it's alan a l u n armstrong he was in the mummy returns van helsing sleepy hollow
01:00:50
Speaker
Dude, dude is a beast, bro. Dude is a stud. and And he shows it even early on here. I feel like he could i feel like he chewed that whole scene up, dude. Yeah, i did. he He's great. So I totally agree. I think the acting is held back by the script. That's why I'm not really going to fault him on it in this film Sure.
01:01:08
Speaker
Yeah. Same.
01:01:11
Speaker
I think Colin did a pretty good job resisting that hot blonde, you know, when he was tested. He did. It goes back to character arc. His love was tested and he came out true for her.
01:01:22
Speaker
yeah So you got to appreciate that as far as part of the arc as well. But yeah, man, trying to resist a hot blonde like that. Yeah, good job. You also got to figure there's only one there's so far in life.
01:01:33
Speaker
We've only ever seen like one other female and she was hot. So it's kind of like this dude's met two women who, who both basically want to want the hard dick and dude, Jimmy. ja He's like, um yeah and they're both horrible and and and they both. Yeah, dude. And he told one of them, nah, it's cool.
01:01:52
Speaker
Zach, I got a hot ginger lady, so yeah, go gingers. I got that gingerbread back at home, baby. I don't know why you keep talking about Argo from Ben Affleck, Ricky.
01:02:09
Speaker
trap What do you mean, Travis? what Why is Ben Affleck talked about in the chat so much? So i give I give the acting a 4. I give it 4. I think they do a great job with what they have.
01:02:24
Speaker
ah three I second that most, and I'll give it a 4. Okay, and Jonathan was 3. So, direction. Direction, then.
01:02:34
Speaker
i I mean, ah I've kind of hit on a lot of it already. I think it's sweeping and epic, and dare I say...
01:02:45
Speaker
ah i I'm scared of the reaction to this. I think Peter Yates is a better director than George Lucas is.
01:02:57
Speaker
I do. haho So i'm I'm sure there's some feedback. What? What's that? What?
01:03:09
Speaker
Huh? Huh? Like the gauntlet has been thrown down? you i mean, not I'm not going to argue it, but huh? ah I think he's a better director. I don't think he's better at like stories. Okay. i think I think George, I have always thought that George is a better story man than director.
01:03:31
Speaker
So the i mean, Empire Strikes Back wasn't directed by him. Return of the Jedi wasn't directed by him. Really? Yeah. He directed, well he did direct Star Wars, the new hope. He directed that one. And then he directed, i believe he directed all the prequels.
01:03:50
Speaker
Oh, like okay. You're building a case now. Exactly. Holy crap. Exactly. but if best ones weren't made but weren't directed by him? No. So Empire Strikes Back was directed by Irvin Kirshner.
01:04:10
Speaker
Oh wow. So that's that's that's kind of where i I make my case. Like the strongest Star Wars movies were not directed. Exception of the real, the first Star Wars, I would say. Right.
01:04:26
Speaker
Which was a passion project and then he passes it on to a different director for the sequel. So I think he's got great stories. I think this movie as a first entry...
01:04:40
Speaker
I think it's really well directed. i do agree there's some pacing issues and some confusion, but I think like the idea to go big works with this story.
01:04:53
Speaker
It looks good. I feel like it's an established world. I'm looking at like, hey, this is definitely, these movies, Willow, Krull, this sword and sorcery time period,
01:05:11
Speaker
definitely influenced Peter Jackson bringing Middle Earth to life. And you can see that in just the scope of what they were trying to do. And so I got to give the director credit here.
01:05:23
Speaker
And got to give credit for having some of some of what I think is the most fun sword and sorcery, bloodless action in these movies. Like, we're not talking the R-rated Conans and Deathstalkers and all that. yeah like in in it though in the yes In the PG realm of family friendly sword and sorcery, this has some of the most fun fight scenes and action sequences.
01:05:54
Speaker
Have you guys ever seen Hawk the Slayer? i Maybe? It's on my list because i after this one, i was looking at it and heard it's great.
01:06:05
Speaker
I need to be here when you talk about Hawk the Slayer. Okay. it's It's amazing. We'll add up all the best and the worst ways possible. It's amazing.
01:06:22
Speaker
We need to get... ah what Look, look, Travis this chavis is freaking out. look du Tell him he can't be there for it. ah Tell him. Look, no Tim says, Tim and john Jonathan's denied you, bro. They said you can't.
01:06:37
Speaker
I think it'd be great to have you both on once. we know We've always had you separated. We could be cutting up. Hell yeah. Come on over, baby. Come on over. We're going to be cutting up, listening to some medieval funky disco music.
01:06:52
Speaker
Okay? That's what the score is doing. I'm telling you, Hawk the Slayer is the shit. Okay? um but I just watched the little- I'mma leave it there. I just watched a little trailer where the sword reverses into his grip, so.
01:07:04
Speaker
Yeah, dude! Dude, look at look at the way the elf guy shoots his bow, dude. Like, it's obvious that they're just, like, cutting it and, like, putting it there again, so it's like, do-do-do-do-do, like he's shooting a machine gun. It's the best, dude. It's so great. Alright, so next year we're going to do the Sword and Sorcery Part 2. So we can get... There's plenty of... Pop the Slayer, dude. 10 out of 10. Spoilers.
01:07:31
Speaker
Alright, did we all score it? no No. Direction, you guys have your comments. oh I'll go ahead and give Direction... I'll give 4.5, think. ah i like I liked what I saw for the most part. I feel like most of the problems were with the script, not the direction.
01:07:53
Speaker
So, I'll give it that. If we're counting, like, cinematography in direction, then, yeah, this is, like, near perfect. I mean, just the the scenery, the way stuff is shot in interesting ways to make up for ah the fact that you know like the the the story or the budgetary not budgetary but like the uh the limits on the effects of the time and stuff like talking about the way they managed to get that shot of the walls closing behind my my girl dude like that that genuinely impressed the fuck out of me um yeah i'm gonna go ahead and give it uh i'm gonna give it a four and a half i thought it i thought it was good good shit
01:08:37
Speaker
I liked a lot of that with what you guys already said, but like, man, that fight scene with the beast though at the end, i thought maybe have been shot a bit better. And like, even especially at the part where he comes back the second time all stuck with the glaive and like they're doing the fight, the fire thing.
01:08:52
Speaker
The overlays of the rocks, but it kind of blocks what you're supposed to see of the beast getting his ass kicked, and that kind of bothered me a bit. i should feel that a bit. I'm not thumbs-downing your opinion. i am thumbs-downing that scene, because I'm in yeah complete agreement. i wish I wish the beast actually stepped out and was in the room instead of like this distant metaphysical force. Exactly. I want an actual showdown.
01:09:22
Speaker
Like, like, we had the fight where he's a big metaphysical thing, and then he killed him with the glaives, so now he's supposed to be, you know, like, like, fucking blood and sweat, you know, like, yeah, feet on the ground, balls to the wall, like, like, let's fight his ass now, like, physically, but instead we get fucking flamethrowers and fireworks, Roman candle shit from across the room, and... It just, yeah, it felt kind of lame. Not going lie. Too mystical, not enough physical. Yep. i I'm in agreement on that. Yeah, I agree.
01:09:59
Speaker
<unk> So, yeah, I give Direction a three. All right, I give it a four. I might go to a four, if you don't mind. Change me to a four. Oh, I was doing good. Okay.
01:10:11
Speaker
You're four. All right. So the the it factor in cultural significance, this is one that's rough for this movie. This movie failed to make back half of its budget at the box office. All It had a $30 million dollar price tag and made approximately $15 to $16 million in its theatrical run. So sad. Yes. be It was meant there was an Atari game lined up to go with There was a there's an official novelization of this out there.
01:10:51
Speaker
There was a Marvel Comics adaptation comic book adaptation of this out there. And it flopped so hard that It ended. This was it.
01:11:06
Speaker
Like there was supposed to be sequels. There was supposed to be more. They were going all in. I mean, launching an Atari game with it in 1983. Right. Like they they believed in it.
01:11:18
Speaker
It is kind of sad. I'm reading Travis's comment. I'm sorry. yeah ah Damn. oh So funny.
01:11:33
Speaker
It performed for those just the listening. it performs so bad. Atari canceled the game is what Travis said. Um, yeah, it, it did terribly. So what I was reading, I think it's interesting that uh,
01:11:55
Speaker
ah
01:11:59
Speaker
The world didn't really know how to take the sci-fi fantasy aspect of it. Right. Didn't know what to do with the meshing of the two. And I'm like, I love that about it. i think that's what makes this movie so unique. Yeah. Yeah. I, you don't see a lot of sword and sorcery with laser beams and teleporting and literal aliens invading.
01:12:25
Speaker
I think that's cool. But the article that I was reading was mentioning that a specifically at this time, There'd been so many sword and sorcery movies already. 70s had a bunch of them. Early 80s had like Hawk the Slayer. You mentioned predated this by two years.
01:12:43
Speaker
ah By three years, actually. Star Wars predated this by almost the first one. Many years. It's just at this point, they would think it was kind of oversaturation. It would be like um trying to launch a new superhero universe right now.
01:13:02
Speaker
Yeah. when superhero movies are struggling to make billions like they used to. So ah what I was reading is that has a lot to do with it. I think it's unfortunate.
01:13:14
Speaker
Many people who said they saw this movie in theaters from what I saw online, the people who saw it in theaters and grew up with this movie loved it. They said they saw it three or four times in theaters and they was it was huge to them. And I could easily see myself if I had had that opportunity.
01:13:32
Speaker
oh no I would have been the same. If I'd have seen this as a kid, dude, I would be like be like, this Ricky guy, he don't know what the hell he's talking about. This movie's amazing. Nostalgia would have would blind me, dude, straight up.
01:13:45
Speaker
Yep. ah Travis commented, it sucks that this movie didn't do good, but it is respected by fans of the genre and adjacent genres. And it is. ah In my reading, I also saw that like the Rousseau brothers, widely known for their Avengers films, love this movie and have talked about rebooting it.
01:14:06
Speaker
What? Oh. So I don't know about that because the only good movies they've made are Marvel movies. Everything else they've made has been kind of crap. So so I don't know how good it would be, but there's that. um It's intriguing.
01:14:22
Speaker
Yeah. Somebody else. Let me see. but else let me see me see if I can find it. um Somebody else mentioned that they were also, you know, widely influenced by this movie. And I'll see if I can find that in my notes. But we can go ahead and... Yeah, I just think it's unfortunate because I do think this movie is a lot of fun. And unfortunately, the cultural significance of it really, really killed it.
01:14:58
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, JJ Abrams. JJ Abrams was attached to produce a reboot for Warner Brothers. Well, hopefully hopefully after the Russo brothers and J.J. Abrams ah remake this, they can go ahead and remake Howard the Duck 2 and make it amazing.
01:15:20
Speaker
Yeah, that that'd be a great idea. I actually... For sure. I want James Gunn to remake Howard the Duck because... oh Because he teased... ah That is one... beau Okay.
01:15:32
Speaker
Yes, so that is one that I actually... James Gunn has a has a niche that he's really good at. Sure. Yeah. I liked Superman. I don't think it's his best film. I think he's better with those slightly edgy movies. Yeah. And Howard the Duck.
01:15:48
Speaker
He could make a R rated edgy. He could make it 10, dude. Dude, it could be a 10. That's a duck pool, man. Yeah. Duck pool. Dude, duck pool. What?
01:16:01
Speaker
He could make that movie a ton of fun. So I agree. i agree. Yes. I love this. ah Derfish, Mr. Lens Flair himself. Yes. J.J. Abrams remakes crawl and puts the lens flares everywhere. When that thing starts spinning, it's just going to lens flares.
01:16:19
Speaker
Constantly, dude. It's gonna give everyone seizures and epilepsy, dude. And diabetes. It's gonna's gonna give you this. So many lens flares, it will give you epilepsy.
01:16:31
Speaker
brutal Dude, straight up, Travis James Gunn's Superman, 10 out of fucking 10, bro. ah that i That movie touched my heart through my butt, dude. Straight up. I agree. I got teary eyed at that movie. I enjoyed that movie a lot. So it's the other things he's done that I don't like Peacemaker ended so horribly. It ended bad. Oh, man, dude. I was enjoying the first couple of episodes a lot. The finale was like the man. The finale was garbage. Anyways, you guys cultural significance. what do you think?
01:17:10
Speaker
dude like it's a cult classic but that's i mean that's that's it right i mean unless we count the fact that it's that it's a 30 million dollar flop to to meet to make so you know to matter i don't know well most people from my age group you know, that grew up in the 80s and 90s, you know, as teenagers, like most of those people know Kroll, I think, know, most people that might know who that movie is. i don't know about younger groups, but theirs always seems to have some significance there. So it's not too bad, but you guys have already pretty much brought up all the points. So for me, it's just a two.
01:17:51
Speaker
I'd be okay giving it a two since it's ah a cult classic. And it's, I mean, like if you look up, if you Google, because I've done this, sci-fi fantasy,
01:18:04
Speaker
hybrid movies, this is coming up. Straight up. You know, like, that's how I know. That's why it ended up on my watch list because I was really into fucking Dune and 40K and all this sci-fi fantasy mashup. So, I'm comfortable giving him a two.
01:18:23
Speaker
And you...
01:18:26
Speaker
You, uh... So, you finally got to view it. It's been on your list for a while and you finally got to view it. For years, dude. For years and years. So in just a second, we'll get your final thoughts on it and see if it was worth waiting for. I think I have an idea. um For It Factor, for me, I gave it a one. It was a massive, devastating failure. And I think the hardest part for me is, like, even today, it did get a 4K remaster, which is surprising. But it
01:19:03
Speaker
I don't see people talking about it. I don't. And most of the people are like, oh, I revisited this movie from my childhood. That's the kind of people who are talking about it. yeah And I do want to bring it to people's attention because I saw it for the first time probably a year or two ago. And I really enjoyed it. And it was definitely more of a like...
01:19:23
Speaker
a childlike wonder sense not watching this going like dude this is quality holds up like next to lord of the rings it's not right i mean you know hey what peter jackson's got that dog in him what you what you gonna do bro you know i i watch this and i go this is gateway sci-fi gateway fantasy this is perfect for bringing up young kids on exactly that's what this is So let's dive. Let's then do our, uh, our final, our enjoyment out of 10 and our
Reflections and Ratings
01:20:03
Speaker
final thoughts. And then I will get us our average and get us out of here.
01:20:08
Speaker
So Ricky has our guest. Do you want to go first?
01:20:14
Speaker
um I'm chomping at the bit, man. I'm sure you can tell. Yes. You know, all in all, like, I see why this is a cult classic. Like, and and maybe my problem is that I expected, I just expected to like it more, you know?
01:20:33
Speaker
Um, I expected a lot because I've been kind of, I've kind of had this on the back burner for years now. And I'm like, in my mind, subconsciously, I'm like, when I watch that, it's going to be a 10.
01:20:50
Speaker
But it's not, it's not, um, this is not something that I'm ready to watch again tomorrow.
01:21:01
Speaker
This is not something that I'm ready to watch again next year.
01:21:09
Speaker
I do like it quite a bit. i like i And I want to revisit it because I want to try to absorb the nuance and the little minutiae a little bit better.
01:21:21
Speaker
But I'm going to go ahead and give this 6.5 out of enjoyment.
01:21:32
Speaker
I think you should revisit it by the way. I'm just saying. yeah I will. I will. I'm just, you know, I'm i'm giving it like 6.5.
01:21:40
Speaker
No, I'm not at a seven. I like it, but I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed in it. I'm not mad. I'm not angry. Listen, son, you're just not winning.
01:21:53
Speaker
If you were winning, I would love you more, but I'm not angry. I'm disappointed. So you want to cover it for the nightclub, right?
01:22:05
Speaker
Travis doesn't want to. I'll do it. I'll poop all over ah Mr. Yates or whatever his name is. Oh, I don't poop on Mr. Yates. Unless that's his thing. I don't know. I mean, maybe he's into it. I mean, I'm not one to judge. He's in Hollywood. Who who knows? ah yeah That's right.
01:22:25
Speaker
All right, Jonathan, you you want to you want to give yours? Man, like said, it's amazing 80s family-friendly fantasy. you can You don't have to worry about your kids being a certain age to watch it. it's so There's like so little gore to it, aside from what you see from like the things breaking out of the skulls. Dude, so dope. It's something anyone can watch with their kids and get them hooked on fantasy early and not be like all crazy or traumatic necessarily. So...
01:22:53
Speaker
you know, anytime it's been on TV, I'll just leave it on. It's something I would prefer watching over other stuff that there's nothing else to watch. You know, don't mind watching it at time time again. I'm an eight. Hey, dude. i I'm also right there at at an eight. Uh...
01:23:11
Speaker
Even, i will say, my second watch, which is the watch I had last night, I enjoyed it way more than the first time. So the first time I watched it, and i was like, that was better than I expected because I didn't know anything about it going in the first time. And I thought it was going to be like a low-budget, schlocky, really rough sword and sorcery film. And so I watched it, and I was impressed, and I liked it.
01:23:35
Speaker
Like Hulk the Slayer. You all need Hulk the Slayer in your lives. Yeah, probably. Bro, it smoked fire. So then I watched this. ah Have you seen Deathstalker 2? Hell yeah, dude. Dude, that movie's so bad. It is so bad. Deathstalker movies, dude. um It's so great. It's so bad. um I think that's kind of what I was expecting out of this. And then I watched it and i was like, no, this actually...
01:24:02
Speaker
is a ton of fun it makes me feel like a kid and i i like it so i definitely think repeated watches help with this film and it's definitely watch it with with childlike wonder because that's the best way to enjoy it don't dig too deep with even things that are there that you want to dig deep about we never got any of the sequels to explain it so you don't need to just look at it at the surface and have a good time i I gave it an eight out of eight or eight out of 10 for the enjoyment factor as well. So that brings our total scores. Jonathan, do you have yours.
01:24:44
Speaker
I am a total of 34. I am a total of 31.5 and don't worry, Ricky, I added yours up. That's what you see. This is my fucking guy audience. Just so you know.
01:24:57
Speaker
And I don't know how But Ricky's score is higher than mine. um I was a 31.5. Ricky's is a 32.4. I'm from the nightclub. We're used to giving everything 10s. So when I'm mildly disappointed, it's still higher than like everyone else's score. I don't know what to tell you, dude. Plus, there you go. Good point, Travis. I went to school in Mamou, Louisiana. Dog, math is not my ah strong suit. You heard me?
01:25:29
Speaker
Well, I just messed up the math on this. Hold on. Uh-oh. Because somehow I ended up with a score that was lower than all three of what we did, which is... Don't ask me. i do I work at a finance company. okay All right. So our official average 32.6 50, which would out of fifty which would be ah that would round up to three and a half stars out of five. And I do think three and a half stars out of five is an appropriate
01:26:01
Speaker
yeah response to this film. I think it's a it's solid three and a half stars out of five. I think you'll enjoy your time. So Jonathan, I did put our outro script in there. If you.
01:26:13
Speaker
Yes, sir. Got that open. okay Okay. The big chat. Thanks for hanging out. ah That last comment, the big bad evil guy is maths. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. ah They just call him the beast in this film. The beast.
Admiration for 'The Beast' and Podcast Promotion
01:26:31
Speaker
His character design was so cool. Yeah. i I love his design. That's why I wish he had actually like come out in the flesh and fought so he could see more of that costume. Yeah.
01:26:42
Speaker
Yeah. Anyways. Tim, you're from Mamou now. a According to Travis. I...
01:26:50
Speaker
What's that? That's where we grew up. Oh, OK. Yeah, because you fumbled the math. Oh, yes. That's what it is. You grew up in central Louisiana.
01:27:03
Speaker
Yeah. my My wife is a math teacher and there's this. Yeah. Perfect. du I let her do it all. Smart man. Yep. All alright right. So.
01:27:14
Speaker
There it is. The glaive has officially landed. Looking at these final numbers, it's clear that while the narrative might be as thin as spider silk in some places, the fun of Krull is undeniable. Absolutely. It's not a perfect film. The pacing stumbles and the dialogue can be as stiff as a Slayer's armor, but it is a ton of fun.
01:27:34
Speaker
It really is. It's the ultimate gateway film. If you're trying to show someone why we love eighty cinema, the practical sets, the creature makeup, and that massive James Horner score, this is the movie you put on. It's an ambitious, weird, interdimensional swing that we just don't see anymore.
01:27:48
Speaker
We cannot thank you enough for being here, Ricky. So why don't you go ahead, plug what you do, where people can find you, all that good stuff, take a moment. Okay, so I'm Rick. I'm part of the Nightclub podcast. You can follow us on social medias, basically all of them. You can follow me personally on some of the social medias, such as ah the Facebook and the Instagram. You should check out the Nightclub.
01:28:21
Speaker
We're retarded. Definitely. We're done and we have a lot of fun. to here That's our that's our M.O., man. You know what I mean? Like that's that's what we're about. So check us out. We got stuff coming up. um It's it's a lot of fun. And I'm not going to say too much about it because Travis is looking at me with his little emote eyes over there. So I don't want to say the wrong thing. And I'm going to shut the fuck up.
01:28:48
Speaker
Oh, and thanks. and Thanks for having me. Absolutely. So everyone make sure you're following Ricky and Travis and the guys over at the nightclub podcast. You've heard, we just had Travis on couple episodes ago. We've had Ricky on always a great time. We've been on a couple of their episodes, but definitely go check them out.
01:29:09
Speaker
And to our live chat. Thank you for the energy tonight. Super awesome.
Next Episode Announcement
01:29:12
Speaker
You guys, you're the reason this is the final average. But our quest through the Sword and Sorcery series is not over yet.
01:29:21
Speaker
We have faced the trolls of the Motherworld and the Slayers of Kral, and next time we're heading to Eternia for a battle over Castle Greyskull.
01:29:36
Speaker
Yes, that's right. We're all doing viewing the 1987 cult classic Masters of the Universe, and we won't be traveling to the center of the universe alone. We are thrilled to announce that our friend David from Journey with a Cinephile will be joining us in the booth.
01:29:50
Speaker
So get your power swords ready and head to the link in our bio to grab the scorecard for the Masters of the Universe early. We'll see you right back here in two weeks for more magic and cosmic battles and synth.
01:30:03
Speaker
I'm Jonathan.
01:30:06
Speaker
I'm Tim. I'm a blonde and more late. Sorry. This has been The Average. Because at the end of the day, the real review happens with your friends.
01:30:20
Speaker
Peace. bibyby baby
01:30:46
Speaker
you