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30: The Boys Discuss Their Faith Walk
291 Plays3 years ago
Ryan Pfendler and Jill Devine invited the next generation to sit down and chat about the faith of the next generation. In this week’s episode, two male high schoolers (Gus and Trevor) sat down with Ryan and Justin Shiroma. You may remember Justin from two previous episodes:
Episode 7: What Is My Role As A Christian?
BONUS (7b): Going Deeper With Justin Shiroma
Gus attends a private high school and Trevor attends a public high school. They opened up to Ryan and Justin about their faith walk, what they want from adult ministry leaders, and what they want their parents to know and understand about them.
Ryan is the Director of Student & Young Adult Ministry at Messiah St. Charles. Ryan’s ministry believes that following Jesus is the way young people grow into the best version of themselves. He wants every teenager to belong to a community of faith where they can learn who Jesus is, and discover the purpose He has for them now and as they grow.
Highlights from the episode include:
*FCA
*Hearing the call from God
*Fear of being vulnerable
*Being a Christian may not be “cool”
*The importance of the small group setting
*Tackling topics specific to teenagers
*The waiting game
*Empty promises
*Being able to relate to teenagers
Messiah Middle School Website: https://messiahstcharles.org/middle-school/
Messiah High School Website: https://messiahstcharles.org/high-school/
Normal Goes A Long Way Website: https://www.normalgoesalongway.com/
Normal Goes A Long Way Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/normalgoesalongway/
Normal Goes A Long Way Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Normal-Goes-A-Long-Way-110089491250735
Normal Goes A Long Way is brought to you by Messiah St. Charles: https://messiahstcharles.org/
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
The following podcast is a Jill Devine Media production. Christianity has become known for judgy people, strange words, ancient stories, confusing rules, and a members-only
Jill Devine's Faith Journey
00:00:12
Speaker
mindset. This is why I stayed away from the church for so long, but it's not supposed to be that way. I'm Jill Devine, a former radio personality with three tattoos, a love for a good tequila, and who's never read the entire Bible.
Purpose of the Podcast
00:00:24
Speaker
Yet here I am hosting a podcast about faith. The Normal Goes Along Way podcast is your home for real conversations with real people using real language about how faith and real life intersect.
Faith in the Next Generation
00:00:37
Speaker
Welcome to the conversation.
00:00:39
Speaker
We are continuing the conversation about the faith of the next generation, specifically the high school students. I'm your host Jill Devine, and we've heard from the ladies, but today it's time to hear from the guys. Now, one of this week's guests is pretty familiar to the podcast, Justin Charoma.
Meet the Guests: Justin, Trevor, and Gus
00:01:00
Speaker
He joined us on episode seven. What is my role as a Christian? And then also going deeper with Justin Geroma, bonus episode seven B. Take a listen to those to get a little bit more of a background of Justin. But he is a teacher and he is here with one of his high school students along with another high school student from a different high school. Ryan will tell you all about it in this week's episode.
00:01:30
Speaker
Well, hey friends, I'm here with the boys episode today. I've been really excited for this one, but we've got a few different voices here. We've got Trevor, we've got Gus, and these are two of our students that go to our church and they're involved in our student
Leadership in Faith at School
00:01:46
Speaker
ministry. And we've got Justin Sharoma back on the podcast. He's actually Trevor's teacher at his school.
00:01:53
Speaker
I'm just going to say we are going to do our best to not make this a peanut gallery episode. I apologize for moments like that that might pop up, but the boys are here. And let's get this thing started with you two guys. Gus, Trevor, introduce yourselves. Tell us where you go to school and use use a word to describe the other person.
00:02:15
Speaker
All right, so I'm Gus. I go to Lutheran High School, St. Charles, and I do a lot of stuff. I'm in a lot of clubs, and I'm doing golf, and I am a Lutheran. And one word that I would use to describe my friend Trevor over here is lovely.
00:02:36
Speaker
I am Trevor. I am a just graduated senior from Timberland High School, which is about like half an hour outside of St. Louis-ish. Honestly,
00:02:49
Speaker
Gus is one of the funniest people I know, so that's the first thing that probably comes to mind for me. I would agree with that. Justin, what word would you use to describe Trevor? The one word that constantly comes to mind when I think of Trevor is leader, really.
Trevor's Leadership Journey in FCA
00:03:03
Speaker
I would use that word too. Trevor and Gus have both been leaders in our high school ministry at our church, and that's one of the big reasons I invited them to be on here today.
00:03:14
Speaker
But when I think about that word leader, I don't just think about what you do in our church. I specifically think, Trevor, you were instrumental in starting an FCA at your school. FCA is it's called Short for Fellowship of Christian Athletes.
00:03:29
Speaker
I remember when you kind of started on this journey to take your faith into your school. Tell us a little bit about where that came from because freshman Trevor, I don't know if he would have done that, but junior and senior Trevor definitely did it. Well, the thing about freshman Trevor is he didn't have to start it because there was at the time there was already an FCA chapter at Timberland. OK. And then the.
00:03:55
Speaker
I mean, at this point, I think I can probably like the leadership, they it was mostly seniors at the time. So obviously, at the end of that year, once all of the seniors were graduated, the FCA chapter kind of fizzled out, like it didn't really exist there. Like, I think we started a group chat. I remember I emailed the teacher sponsor asking if we were going to still be doing stuff and
00:04:16
Speaker
We really didn't, we really didn't have anything. So we didn't, it was just for sophomore year, it didn't exist. And for junior year, it technically didn't exist because junior year is
Impact and Challenges of FCA
00:04:28
Speaker
when the story that Sheroma told on his episode happened. So from my point of view, this was just like a normal church.
00:04:39
Speaker
day like it was just it was normal everything was typical it was it was a standard Sunday for my family and like I didn't really think anything was gonna happen just just going to church pretty standard stuff for us and I don't even honestly like
00:04:56
Speaker
I was so out of it that day, I don't even remember what the sermon was about. But at some point, the pastor at our church brought up Shroma, and I was like, okay, I know this guy he teaches at my school. He was pretty cool. He was one of my teachers freshman year, even though he didn't remember me until like... I found a secret video of Trevor singing the fight song. We are never... if you found that...
00:05:25
Speaker
That is gonna be shared with me at the end of this episode, please It was just I was just there and like it was He brought him up and was like, oh, that's cool. That's cool. Like this is also this was it was stuff I'd known I knew you had gotten baptized at Messiah
00:05:41
Speaker
probably only a few months earlier at that point. Yeah, October. October, yeah. Then our pastor says, and I'm going to say as close as I can say as to how he said it, and Justin is going to be starting an FCA chapter at Timberland and immediately like,
00:05:59
Speaker
I'm sitting up straight. I'm paying attention. I know exactly what's going on now. Like I perked up and my family could see it too. Like I was immediately alert. Like I looked over at my, like my parents were like all on my left. I just looked over both. I'm like, what just happened?
00:06:17
Speaker
And so for like the entire rest of the service, which are like 15 minutes at that point, I'm just like thinking, what's going on? What's going on?
Personal Spiritual Awakenings
00:06:24
Speaker
What's going on? What's going to happen? What's going to happen? Can I do this? Can I do this? And then as it just so happened, you were at that service. So I remember you.
00:06:34
Speaker
I remember this part well. I remember you were walking out, I was like, I shouldn't go talk to him, I shouldn't go talk to him. And then I was just like, okay, you know, we're gonna go do it. So I basically ran out of the church and caught you. And I went to shake your hand. And I remember that specifically, because at the time, I think you were still in double cast, if not at least one. I had my arm up in a sling, because I tore both bicep tendons. So I was like, do I shake his hand? Am I gonna hurt him?
00:07:00
Speaker
And you were also holding one of your kids at the time, another like pointless detail, but like, this is just why I remember it. And I was like, I go, I basically said, Hi, I'm Trevor. I don't know if you remember me. I go to Timberland. I've run track before because I knew you were a track coach for a while. I was just like, and I just said, whatever you need to help get this thing running. I'm all in.
00:07:19
Speaker
Yeah. And that's where the story picked up for me was he just thought he ran out that same today, whatever you need. And that's what stuck with me. And that's what makes me use that word leader for him is he leads from the front, whatever you need. And he does it. You know, he doesn't ask much from other people and he's going to take it on the majority of things. And that was the first statement he made that I knew that he was going to be our guy, the guy.
00:07:47
Speaker
Yeah. And the other part of leadership is service. And Trevor, you always show up to serve. You're not like, okay, I'm a leader. I can just let other people do the work. You lead, but you also put in the man hours. I mean, you recreate our space for our high school ministry. I mean, you do a lot of stuff, but what interested me about that story for you
00:08:10
Speaker
is you didn't feel cool, calm, and collected going to Mr. Sharoma, or Sharoma as you call them. You were terrified and yet you still responded. And I think that's a very interesting lesson on leadership there. Some people wait to be completely confident before they step forward into something. And a lot of times you just have to commit. If you're ever gonna do it, the commitment comes before the confidence. And I really think that's cool.
00:08:40
Speaker
that you weren't just like, I'm the dude for this. You're like, I don't even know, but I want to be the guy. So I'm going to, I'm going to go up to my teacher and ask if I can be a part of this.
00:08:50
Speaker
Anyways, that's my favorite part of that story. Well, like the thing for that is like, especially for me, like that was for me, like that's one of the major like spiritual awakening moments in my life. Like if there's one time in my life where I have heard the voice of God
Faith in Public vs. Private Schools
00:09:03
Speaker
talking to me, that was it. Yeah. Yeah. It was just like, this is what you got. Like, like that calling. Yeah. Like that is the one point in my life that I could point you and say right there.
00:09:15
Speaker
Those are the moments I love, dude, and I've had a few, and one of them came sophomore year of high school, one of them came to college, one of them came just after college, but it's the moment that God comes to you and you just, you know that it's his voice speaking to you and calling you into something.
00:09:35
Speaker
And that same note, I think that's interesting that you wanted to start this club. You are fresh baptized. Well, let's back up here. So when our pastor encouraged me to seek out the fellowship of Christian athletes and what was going on at our school,
00:09:56
Speaker
I was going before this church service that it all happened. I was going through a lot of lip services. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to do that. And even still, I was unsure if I was actually going to follow through until the entire congregation knew about it.
00:10:12
Speaker
And it was at that moment when he told the whole congregation, I mean, online and everything that first and last name, Justin Sheroma, coach teacher at Timberland High School is going to start FCA up there. I'm like, well, I guess I have to do it now. I don't know what I'm doing. I believe he did that on purpose. And then on the same day, you want to talk about God
00:10:36
Speaker
Putting people in places and speaking to us in the very moment that we need him This guy that has experience with FCA runs out with all of the enthusiasm of the world Wanting to help and I'm like awesome. I'm not now not alone for sure. Hi that is the fact that you both go to the same school and you both go to our church and you both had a heart and
00:10:59
Speaker
for this and there was some trepidation or some uncertainty at first, almost until that literal day. That's really cool. And so for you now, you've been doing it, what, for a year? Give us a review. How do you feel about it? Um, you're passing it on to the next group of leaders. Now, Trevor, you've graduated, but
00:11:22
Speaker
I was gonna say I might be good for how like, I don't know how many people actually applied for leadership because you have those papers, none of them were given to me. So I don't know for sure how we're looking next year. So next year, I'm gonna let you take that. But I can definitely take the retrospective. Yeah, let's talk about this year. So this year,
00:11:42
Speaker
It was a little bit of a, I feel like it was a little bit of a rough start. Like we were kind of like thrown into like, not thrown in this, but like we pushed ourselves into this. Like it was the most leap of faith, leap of faith I have ever leap of faith. Yeah. Yeah. And so we are like flying by the seat of our pants here.
00:11:59
Speaker
that we don't know what we're doing for a good amount of time. You, me and our vice president did a leadership training at a, was that a college, was it? M-I-C-D-S-O, it's kind of more in the city. And that helped us a lot to know what meetings look like and how to kind of run them.
00:12:23
Speaker
FCA does an amazing job of setting you up for resources, laying the groundwork and foundation and the roadmap for getting everything going. Yeah. Now we just kind of started a little bit late. So we're behind the ball. Usually you pick your leaders early and then you go to a
00:12:39
Speaker
Summer camp for for for leadership and you learn all these things. Well, we were kind of thrown into like a one-night two-hour Training it was for most people there was like a recap but for us it was like it was like all new information all new and so it was also this massive buying literally this massive like 600 page binder just like yeah everything. Yeah, we're like, yeah, let's go. Yeah, and so
00:13:03
Speaker
So as much of everything is paved for us with FCA, we were behind the ball and playing catch up. And so that's where I think, you know, a lot of our learning process came through as we had meetings. But I think we had some others that were excited and induced to get it going. And we just started meetings. And did we know what we were doing?
00:13:25
Speaker
No. Our first meeting, I was like, I know exactly why I remember our first meeting because your wife was taking my senior pictures that day. Oh, that's right. And she pulled through and said, we can move your time so you can make this meeting. So I had literally just come to the meeting from having my senior pictures taken.
00:13:47
Speaker
so like I'm already like kind of in freak out mode and it felt more like teaching a class honestly because that's kind of what it what it was like it was just explaining like okay this is what we do this is what we're gonna do like for the next how like for next year basically that first meeting I was terrified but we had a really for our first meeting we had a pretty darn good turnout
00:14:09
Speaker
on average our meetings range from 15 to 20, 25. Numbers do matter because numbers represent people that are connected in community to Jesus. So they're not everything, they're not what you should define yourself by, but when you say 15 to 20 people, I mean that's 15 to 20 people that wouldn't have been connected to that if you weren't there. And so it's a challenge
00:14:33
Speaker
someone in ministry to not define yourself by the numbers, but I also want to challenge myself to reach more because more kids means more souls that are getting connected to Jesus. And so that's really cool that you're reaching that many people. And I like FCA. I was a president. Is that what they call it? Yeah. Okay. It's been years when I was a president of mine, my senior year, and I just thought it was a great organization for no other reason than that.
00:15:00
Speaker
It's the one place in public school that you can talk about your faith openly. And you're safe to do that there. And I would say to any parent of public school kids, you should always point your kids to an FCA if you want them connected to Jesus in their schools. You don't have to go
00:15:18
Speaker
to a private school for them to encounter Jesus in the walls of your school. And it's totally allowed.
Student Disconnection from Faith
00:15:23
Speaker
It's legal for this to happen. You know, there's no rules being broken. I mean, it's totally an upfront organization. I like them. On that note, though, I want to pivot to Gus here because Gus goes to a Lutheran school. And so
00:15:38
Speaker
Well, FCA is kind of the space for faith in a lot of public schools and a private school that you go to. You've got your chapels, you've got devotions. I mean, I've led them at your school. We talked to some of the girls in our last episode about their experiences with that, but what is the faith life like at Lutheran High? I mean, those are the things you do, right? Your small groups, your chapels, your devotions.
00:16:06
Speaker
What are your thoughts on it there and is it, talk about that for me. So some parts of it I see as like really intense like Lutheran like studying and learning and stuff like that through like chapels and devotions. But in other parts like small groups it's more like relaxed and laid back. And it's like more like a light devotion at the beginning instead of like digging into the Bible for the devotions on Monday and Friday or whatever it is.
00:16:33
Speaker
And also, I find it extremely interesting because I grew up in Lutheran school, Lutheran private schools, I think all my life, besides preschools. But through like Messiah Lutheran School and Lutheran High School, I've always, it was always required to take a religion class. And it's interesting, like meeting when I got into high school, it was a bigger pool of people, like a lot more.
00:16:56
Speaker
And when I got in there, there's people from my public schools, other private schools, and they're just like, you guys have to take a religion class, no matter what, unless you have to leave. And I'm like, yeah, because it's a huge part of what they do and why they're there. How do they receive that, those kids that are new to it? How do they receive being put into a religion class? You grew up with it, so it was just...
00:17:20
Speaker
Par for the course. Yeah, second nature for you. For those newer kids, how do they respond to those classes? For the newer kids, I only know one who...
00:17:30
Speaker
was in a public school and didn't believe in God and didn't like he doesn't like I don't know like understand or like I don't want to say care because he does care but he wants to learn and I see him all the time in like classes he's like looking up like historical things and stuff of that nature of like how the Bible could like fit into history and stuff like that and prove
00:17:53
Speaker
existence and I like how he tries he really tries to understand and I try to help him with that but I'm not sure because he's not he's not there yet yeah honestly but I think being in this environment really helps him it makes people like that start to think about
00:18:17
Speaker
okay, how can this fit into my life?
Teaching Faith in Schools
00:18:21
Speaker
And like, at least it gets the conversation going. Because people, I feel like atheists and stuff in private schools, oh no, public schools, sorry, are like, they don't have any exposure to it. So they don't know if it's like something that they might want to do or look into. Yeah. And so that, I was thinking that was interesting because he goes there, he gets exposed to it because he goes to your school.
00:18:47
Speaker
Justin and Trevor, he made that comment about you just wouldn't be exposed to it in public school. I mean, is that pretty accurate? I can speak from my experience, but I went to high school years ago.
00:18:56
Speaker
Well the thing is when they like for me at least whenever it's covered in a public school setting it's been and I was also like Gus and I went to the same private middle school growing up like elementary middle school growing up so like public school it's much more these are Christians these are what we believe like it's very like historical yeah it's taken more of an in a in a historical context or in a like we're reading we're learning about this not be not to encourage the faith but to encourage like that you at least
00:19:27
Speaker
understand, like it's for the better understanding of something else. It's not for understanding the faith, it's for understanding history or understanding literature or something else. It's the skeleton of it. It's not like the, it's the, yeah. Bare bones. Yes. Yeah. Just fact. Just a class. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
00:19:43
Speaker
At least from my experience, I don't know if you have anything else to add about. Um, just, I guess as a teacher coach, I mean, it's just not a conversation that I'm able to bring up, you know? And so people's belief systems go unknown for me until the opportunity arises, like a platform like FCA.
00:20:04
Speaker
Yeah. But, you know, an FCA is really student driven. And so that's we do lean on, you know, students like Trevor and the rest of our huddle to reach out and have those open conversations and ask those questions. I can't ask, you know, and so that. So, you know.
00:20:27
Speaker
Talk about atheists or whatever people believe in they kind of for me from my perspective They usually aren't unearthed to me. Yeah It's also not always necessarily people who have never been exposed to it It might be people who were exposed to it at some point and had a bad experience with someone in a church or had a bad experience with their family or something like that and that like Pushed them out of the church. Like I know
00:20:54
Speaker
I know quite a few people actually who like they went to church a lot and then a relative died or their parents got divorced and they just stopped having that option so not being able to go to church caused them to drop out but they just didn't want to believe it anymore. Another thing that I've seen some of the kids in my classes they
00:21:17
Speaker
go away from the faith not because of like some tragic something happens or it's just it's just like a change in their life like they get a girlfriend or a boyfriend who doesn't believe in that stuff at all and like that like kind of draws them away you see them like caring about it less and less to fit in with him or her now the same can happen in the opposite direction but it tends to be yeah yeah do you think people like that need so they don't walk away then or they don't get disconnected
00:21:46
Speaker
Something that I see that's helpful is like there's devotions and travels and stuff all the time at my school But something that could help with that is if they were I know that this is impossible to tell but you have to like read their minds and like
00:22:01
Speaker
uh say something give a lesson give something that specifically relates to their situation i feel like that's the only thing that helps them because there's other there's many lessons in devotions that vaguely mention a couple of other things but they don't really like get into it and why that's important yeah and maybe to get even more specific someone personally coming to them being like
00:22:25
Speaker
What's going on? A personal check-in, but I like what you're saying there. They need to learn how God relates them in that particular specific place, not just a general lesson on God, but a very specific, how does God relate to my parents' divorce or something?
Relating Faith to Real Life
00:22:44
Speaker
Trevor, you looked like you had something you wanted to say. I had a couple. That's my thing, kind of along the vein of what Gus said.
00:22:52
Speaker
A lot of times, like especially my experience with private school religion classes is it doesn't feel like you're actually going in there to learn about God. It feels like you're going in there to get a grade. And I don't think that religious, like teaching people about the faith should be about, should be like for them to get a grade on something. I think they should
00:23:12
Speaker
want to be there it should be something that they choose it shouldn't be something that's forced down to a throat because that's also something that i think can a lot of times push people away especially in my experience like having seen quite a few people have similar things sorry i it's okay i think of it as like from my experience with like religion teachers and religion classes it's like a 50 50
00:23:32
Speaker
some teachers really like focus on like the grade and like the test taking and this historical thing and this sort of historical thing happened because god did this and that person did this or whatever and the other half of the teachers i've experienced both in all my classes they like care more about
00:23:52
Speaker
like the connections rather than the factual like things and less your grade depends on it less. Yeah. Yeah. And I was gonna say if I could like that's nothing too much to be said against like private school because private school I think is especially in this day and age very beneficial but
00:24:11
Speaker
there are just different people who will connect to the faith and connect to the Bible and connect to the word of God in different ways. And I feel like certain ways, especially from what I've seen, at least in private school, like you said, there are different people who teach different ways. It just comes down to like finding out, especially for the student, like finding out how you connect to it best and then seeking out those ways.
Social Challenges for Young Christians
00:24:35
Speaker
Well, you know, I go back to that story, Gus, you were sharing about that classmate of yours that was exposed to scripture and to teachings about Jesus because he goes to your school.
00:24:50
Speaker
You know, I'm pro both for different reasons and You know, I look at the the private school example and I think well, there's a structured delivery of Bible knowledge and you can either do that great or you can do it terribly, you know, and it sounds like what you're saying is like the teachers that have a passion behind
00:25:13
Speaker
how it connects to you as a person and not just the grade you're gonna get, that's what makes the difference. And I'd say that's true of any, I mean, you would face a similar struggle in a Sunday school classroom, in a church, you know, is your heart in it or are you just there to just speak and say, you know, check your box and walk away? You know, that's true in all these environments. It's true in FCA too. No, absolutely. We've seen,
00:25:39
Speaker
Like there are definitely people who are just there because like, I mean, just there for the food. That's a big one. But hey, it gets them in the room. It gets them in the room. Like we had a whole conversation about this after a meeting one day. Like there were a couple of people who were for whatever reason being disruptive or not very like fully paying attention.
00:25:57
Speaker
And we had a conversation afterwards, like, and we both kind of were thinking the same thing. It's just like we got them there like food. Yeah, if that's the reason they're there. OK, but like they're still there. Yeah, at least they're there. And if they they might they might not be getting what we wanted them to get out of it.
00:26:18
Speaker
They might not be getting that, but they might get something completely different out of it. And you look, yeah, I was going to say, I kind of, I've been listening to you guys this whole time. And, um, you know, I think for me, I'm just as the teacher and older guy, um, with the experience of observing from the outside in, and it's mostly for the boys. And I think when we think back to our experience with the FCA, with the boys, um, the boys never really want to be too serious about something.
00:26:47
Speaker
Yeah, they order or they become uncool. Yeah, you know, I mean it's you know, this is why again I go back to Trevor leader is because he when he's convicted about something he has his belief systems he Knows with the path he wants to walk and does it these other guys that you know And I again like I'm more focused on on the guys and and that's kind of the mission that we're gonna be on in the coming year is to Get more guys. Yeah, but what I see out of the teenage boys and I may even be applicable at the private school
00:27:18
Speaker
is when the conversations get more serious, the more they wanna back away from having this. And for whatever reason it is, it could be them not wanting to be cool, it could be like some kind of past trauma they've had. And I say fear of vulnerability, a lot of it. Fear of vulnerability and it's also, I think for guys, we feel like we gotta look strong at all times because if you open up and show vulnerability,
00:27:46
Speaker
For me, sometimes, there's a fear that's gonna be used against you one day. And it's something my dad taught me, right or wrong. He's like, you can't open up because someone might use that against you one day, you never know. And I think that, I don't know if that's something that's just in our nature, if that's something we've been taught over years, but. Well, I was gonna say, and I've heard it firsthand, myself, in the public school setting, being a Christian, there's an uncertainty of it being cool.
00:28:16
Speaker
Yeah, you know, there's an unlike people aren't sure if you're if you believe in God and you want to speak about God that for many There's an uncertainty if that's the cool thing to do and you might hear from different groups You might come across the right group that says yeah right on like we're on the same page
00:28:34
Speaker
And then some people say, you believe in God? And you hear that in a public school setting. Of course I have to just stand by and hear and listen, not say a word. And I have had students that were a part of the FCA that would have private conversations with me.
00:28:50
Speaker
and when they're having difficult times, and those are awesome. But it's within the scope of FCA, so it's really cool, but to hear some people, young people, try to equate our faith to being cool, and that's where I think the barrier stands sometimes, the uncertainty of if it's a cool thing or not. I totally see that, and I felt that same way at my school.
00:29:16
Speaker
verbalizing your faith, I mean, didn't make you the most popular person in my high school either. And that's just the way it is. And some people might say it's a problem with the modern world. I'm just like, that's just the way the world is. So how do you adapt to that? And I'm very curious, there's a moment
00:29:33
Speaker
in each of your days that I'm curious about. And it's the moment when you leave the Bible study class in your school bus or the moment when you leave FCA, Trevor, and you're in the general population of your schools. I mean, how is it being a Christian outside of the safety of those walls? And it's okay if you're like, I suck at it, I'm not great at it. Yeah, I'll admit that I'm not great at it. Yeah, me neither. It's not really,
00:30:01
Speaker
people don't like to talk about it outside of the classes because it feels like if you have something to say about it, you could say it in there. And again, also, it's also especially not guys. Don't bring my class out into the hallway. Yes, exactly. What's it like for you, Trevor?
00:30:19
Speaker
um kind of similar i'm definitely not very good about being super open about my faith at school um which is something that i've i've been pretty heavily like self convicted about for a while and my thing is like i just can never i feel like i can never like
00:30:39
Speaker
I don't want to be that person who just goes out and yells, hey, I'm a Christian. You should be one too. Otherwise, I don't like you. I just I can't say I just I just I don't I don't want that's not who I want to be. It's not the good. I don't want to be like, I'm here to get you here. I just want to be like, I'm here if you want to be here. Great. God will bring you here if that's like what his plan is for you.
00:31:03
Speaker
the guy.
00:31:15
Speaker
whatever it was you just said about yelling your faith at people. It doesn't actually work that well, so. I'm pretty open about it. I'll never hide the fact that I'm a Christian. I think most people don't ever really hide it. They just don't show it as much. And I'll be open to saying, I'm not very great at that, honestly. I honestly think that the best approach is something that you explained to me.
00:31:39
Speaker
in Houston during our trip to do that. And you have this friend who you brought to the faith in college. And I, your method of that is what I really try to do. It's just, don't force it onto people. Just be around them and show how it shows in your lives. And that way, they'll be more
00:32:04
Speaker
don't force them into it, but give them the option to be there. Yeah. And that should have been what it could be worked out. Yeah. That conversation about college reminds me too of.
00:32:15
Speaker
something a friend of mine once said and it's that he's talking to me about someone going to the ministry but the job of someone going to the ministry is to be a lead repenter and a lead person of vulnerability and I think for you guys and your witness to your friends and Justin you were talking about how guys don't
00:32:37
Speaker
love being open and we're afraid to do it. And I think you can bring faith out of other people when you start the vulnerability. And so, you know, I ask you guys, this is leaders, when our small groups at our church is, it's your job to be the first person to open up because guys aren't going to do it until someone else does it until maybe two or three other people do
The Role of Vulnerable Leadership
00:32:59
Speaker
it. And then it's finally safe. And even then they might not do it, but it reminds them that, or it shows them that it's a safe space for that to happen.
00:33:06
Speaker
Yeah, in our small groups, there's some really good opening questions to get people talking. And then towards the end, there are like the serious ones, the deep ones. And I noticed that towards the deep ones, people, a lot of people get really quiet, and they really don't want to open up. And I tried to just
00:33:30
Speaker
throw something out there. Yeah, throw something out there into the wind, see if it sticks, you know, like to try to, I don't know to try to like, put it in a more palatable way, not like so sappy way so that then they start there and get into the more deep stuff.
00:33:45
Speaker
I'm just curious, you know, like, is it effective to go that deep with high school boys? I think that sometimes it works better than others. I think it's necessary. It is necessary, too. So it's necessary even if you don't get a great response just to keep trying. Eventually, like, persistence is key in a lot of these scenarios. Especially, I mean, we've kind of seen that with FCA, too. Not to the same level.
00:34:12
Speaker
Yeah, and as I said, even from from my experience, just because I usually in our in our huddle meetings, I kind of peruse from group to group and try to listen to the track that they're on. So I get it. Well, of course, I review the questions ahead of time. But even throughout, I began to think about what my response would be. Yeah.
00:34:31
Speaker
even though I might not share it, I still am thinking about what my response might be. And I like to believe that so are these guys that are not sharing that maybe they leave and walk away and say, well, what would I say there? Like they might be walking through that on their own time, like if they're not comfortable sharing, but they are comfortable, like processing it and thinking about on their own time. Like that's also something that
00:34:53
Speaker
I think a lot, especially a lot of guys do. Yeah. And we've had like an example from our huddle group of growth. You know, we had a kid come in the beginning and you know, he came to one of our leadership meetings and from that moment was like, I don't want to be a leader. I just kind of want to hang out and listen to people talk.
00:35:14
Speaker
Fast forward back toward the ending of the year, he's asking myself and our co-sponsor, how do I read the Bible? Where do I start? What research do you have for me? And I mean, this is a guy in the beginning. I was like, I just want to sit here and listen. So now I want to actively pursue my faith and learn from the word of God. And he wasn't a guy that spoke up a whole ton, but just him being there. He is an example of him being there and evolving through the process.
Small Group Dynamics in Faith
00:35:44
Speaker
Again, not just not just a belief, it actually happens. Yeah, just having them there, whether they respond, or get deep or just joke around. I think some of those questions marinate. Yeah, dig in to them for themselves. I find that like, especially during our small group things on Sunday, like after the fact, like when I'm when I'm driving home at like 630,
00:36:06
Speaker
I think about it a lot more, I find myself. And I found myself coming up with answers that I would have said in there, but it just took me a while. And I really think about it and how that actually might fit into my life. And it's really, really cool. We're talking about kind of some small group stuff and some church ministry stuff. And it reminded me that Gus, you don't come to morning worship at Messiah.
00:36:29
Speaker
Not that much anymore. Which is fine, but you do come Sunday nights. I mean, what would you get out of a Sunday morning worship service and what do you get from a student ministry? I find that the small groups are more personal and I feel like I'm more able to open up because it's in and only in the company of like pretty close friends. I feel like that helps an extreme amount. And also,
00:36:56
Speaker
I feel like chapels sometimes repeat a message over and over again over the course of weeks. They always start out with the same message and then go deeper into a different part of it, but I find that not as helpful. It's still helpful, but not as helpful.
00:37:16
Speaker
Also, it's just that my family, my whole family went away from that a little bit, but my whole family switched, it shifted to the more thinking as we got older and grew in our faith, we're like, okay, we get the messages, we get all of that, it's awesome, it's good, but let's actually study the Bible. What does this actually mean? What is God trying to say here? That's the kind of things. My family now goes to different Bible studies.
00:37:46
Speaker
And so there's a different level of depth you get out of a Sunday night small group that you don't necessarily get in a Sunday morning worship or out of a Bible study.
Teens' Expectations of Faith Leaders
00:37:56
Speaker
And that's actually what you and your family are looking for. That's interesting. I never really asked about your family's faith life. So you feel like you've got the general gospel message and you're just looking to go deeper.
00:38:09
Speaker
Do you feel like for a high school ministry, do you wish we like walked through the Bible more or do you like that we do the topical stuff that we do? I'm just curious because what would a teenage guy be looking for out of a high school ministry?
00:38:25
Speaker
I really like your personalized messages a lot. Like when we're all together in like the gym and like sitting together and like the topics that you cover are very specific to teenagers. And that helps a whole lot because the big like chapels don't normally cover that. And like your new section or your past section on dating, that was extremely helpful and made me understand a lot more.
00:38:58
Speaker
He's still in the opening section of becoming the best version of himself or was the line. So I'm very curious. You've got a couple adults here in this room. What do you wish adults better understood about teenage guys?
00:39:18
Speaker
The vast majority of guys are not going to be quick to open up about what's going on in their life. And I think we, I mean, I'm the same way. Like with almost every major like thing I've gone through, I've gone to someone more directly first. Like a lot of the time, the best way, and at least from what I've seen, the best way is to not force them to be open right away. It's the waiting game. It's like getting to know them
00:39:48
Speaker
like, over a period of time, gaining their trust, and eventually, they'll probably they're probably gonna start coming to me. How long did it take me to start coming to you with my stuff? It took me a few years. I know you before then. It took me like, it took me two or three years to like, of knowing you to become comfortable talking to you about like deeper stuff that goes on in my life. Yeah. I don't know if you have anything to add on that, guys.
00:40:13
Speaker
I guess I already talked about it, like personalize it more because there's a lot of stuff in our lives that are situational. Like this, I really need help on something, I do, I really need help on something, but it's this and it's like a really specific thing and like if only like you would talk about this more or going to this deeper because like I've been in chapels
00:40:34
Speaker
where it was like, it lightly touched on the topic. I'm like, I'm like, okay, yeah, I really need help with that. Like, are you going to go deeper? And then they like switched to another part of it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So don't get to where you want them to go. And I think I like what both of you had to say. And I think. Yeah, sure. One of the other things is like, at least for me personally, it gets kind of annoying when someone like when I tell someone I'm going through something and they just say,
00:41:03
Speaker
Oh, it's gonna be okay. Like that, a lot of times, I'm sorry, like, sometimes that helps, honestly. But a lot of times that just frustrates me. That's like, okay, great, it's gonna be okay later. I want it to be okay now. I want to know how to deal with this. It's now not in a year from now, not in the months from now, not even a day from now. I want to know, like, how can I try to struggle? And how can I deal with this, like processes
Authenticity and Support in Faith
00:41:27
Speaker
now?
00:41:27
Speaker
It's not just that, but it's like the, it's okay. Like you're going to be fine. Like we've heard that like so many times. But we've heard it so many times that it's like kind of like meaningless. Like, Oh, okay. You're just saying that. That is a bad promise that Christians like to make to anyone, but especially young people. I, I don't know if I've ever told you it's going to get better and I never try to make that promise. Like,
00:41:56
Speaker
I tried to avoid it too. I made it. I made it. First off, I don't know what your definition of better is. And so I don't know that and I don't know when and I don't know how. I think God's promise is that
00:42:12
Speaker
You can have joy even if what you're struggling with isn't gonna get better this year or next year or whatever. That's the greater promise. A lot of people, we settle on the Band-Aid solution, which is just like you're saying, saying it's gonna get better. You're gonna be fine.
00:42:30
Speaker
And that feels good in the moment, but a year from now, if you're not fine, then, you know, I just don't want to make a promise that I, I'm not sure of for you, but I'd rather give you hope and joy and peace during those hard times than just make a vague promise that the hard time is just going to magically go away. Instead of saying, yeah, like to your point, instead of saying, Oh, it's just going to get better.
00:42:54
Speaker
Like say something or show something or tell me something that would start beyond the path to getting better. Like this will help and this will help you to get better. Or don't tell me something that is going to be true. Tell me something that's already true.
00:43:13
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's hard. Yeah. Well, but like, even then, like what I've tried to do, especially when my friends have come to me with issues is like, especially my Christian friends is like, it's okay. Like not saying it's okay. It comes out again. I'm telling you it's okay. But saying like, like, I still care about you. I'm always, I'm going to be here for you.
00:43:34
Speaker
as long as i can be and like saying also especially with christian friends like god still loves you like you might be going through this right now and i know it's tough but if you can't lean on anything else like that's that's what i've leaned on most of my life and that's i think that's the best thing that like i can tell other people to lean on it's like it's yeah it it sucks but you've got a little you can have something to put a little bit of hope in right now
00:43:58
Speaker
This reminds me, okay, there's a verse that a lot of high school athletes love. I mean, I loved it and we really miss.
00:44:06
Speaker
Well, clearly, it's a cliche, but, you know, I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength. And we think that means, oh, that means I'm going to win this game because I believe Jesus. Actually, if you look at the context, it means the exact opposite. It means that even if you don't win, you're going to still be strong and still have peace and self-confidence because you have Christ.
00:44:29
Speaker
even if you don't win that game or even if you don't. This is what you guys are saying, right? That you're not looking for false promises, you're looking for hope and you're looking for a future. Okay.
00:44:48
Speaker
What are you looking for from Christian leaders? Not just what are you looking for for adults understand, but what are you looking for from Christian leaders like myself and Justin and the other men in your lives?
00:45:06
Speaker
and it's almost like in we're looking for an understanding of what we're going through and sometimes that's our fault because we don't explain it to you or tell you even sometimes you are taking the words right out of my mouth right now yeah it's like yeah the understanding is definitely important also like i understand to a certain point you kind of can't get too open about what's going on in your personal lives especially as a teacher
00:45:30
Speaker
but like at least being somewhat honest and you're pretty good about that like there have been I can think of a couple I guess I don't remember if you were in high school for either of these but like there was one youth session that you did where you like you got very emotional and very open well there was the one about your friend and then there was another one like where you you got very emotional like you physically got down on your knees I think at one point
00:45:58
Speaker
I do not remember that. I would have remembered that. And but here's the thing like that like honestly at least to me and for some people that might have been kind of weird but to me that was moving like I feel like especially as teenagers we still somewhat have this idea that the people who are older than us are like
00:46:19
Speaker
Yeah, it's great to relate your problems to someone who's seeing someone going through the same thing as you and telling you stuff about it and how this helped you get through it. That is the remedy.
00:46:37
Speaker
Justin, what are you thinking over there just listening to all of this? Well, I'm just thinking as just a person with experience, you know, right, you know, as you've grown older and gone through your own trials and adversity and came out swell on the other end. Now we know seem to think that we know the formula for getting through things. And I think sometimes as an experienced person or a coach, especially a coach,
00:47:05
Speaker
I feel it's my job to help give the answers sometimes and get people through that. I don't find that to be always super helpful. Like, like, hey, if you just do, you know, you talked about the roadmap. Sometimes I'm like, if you just do this, this and this, it worked for me. And that kind of throws it out the door, you know, it's like, okay, that works for you, but you're also 30 some years old and not a teenager like me, you know, and a lot of times, you know, I ask myself,
00:47:30
Speaker
why is that even a big deal to you? Like, why do you care what other people think? But you do, you know? And as an experienced person, I'm like, it's like I almost forgot. Like, you know, when I grew up, I forgot being a kid and a teenager. And so I think as an adult, it becomes challenging because I have been through some of these things, but I don't always take into consideration that it's different.
00:47:54
Speaker
I think it's helpful to share that pathway, but I also want you to discover your own path because if you just take what worked for us and tried to copy and paste that in your life, it might not work. And I think for a guy, I'm like, I want a guide. I don't want someone holding my hand and pushing me. I want like a road map. I want a guy, but I kind of want to take the journey myself, too.
00:48:23
Speaker
This has been really good and you've helped me guys remember what it's like to be a teenage guy, which sometimes I forget about. Wait, what's it like to be a teenage guy? The part that is sticking out in my mind is how you guys talked about waiting and being patient for you guys to come to us. And I think sometimes we, if you're a Christian leader, listen to this, or an adult or whatever, we feel pressured to like,
00:48:52
Speaker
attack the issue, like I've been pressured before, like you need to confront this topic in this way to your people. And I'm like, I don't know if that's effective.
00:49:02
Speaker
I would rather communicate in a way and be present in a way that you can come to me with that than try to force you to like confess. I mean, my joke before you came on here is like, you're going to come on the podcast and confess all your sins and struggles. Well, some people think that's actually good philosophy and strategy. I'm like, no, I'm down. You want me to tell sometimes.
00:49:23
Speaker
I want to be curious and know what's going on in your lives, but I also would rather you come to me when you're ready sometimes. I think that's more effective than just trying to force things out of you.
00:49:36
Speaker
And I was going to say one thing I heard from you guys that it's essential for us guys with experience, older guys to be vulnerable and show some side of humanity that does relate to teenagers. Well, let's close out this episode. Thank you guys for your insights and your help and just being you and Gus.
00:50:00
Speaker
You know, I always see the funny side of Gus, but I really got to see the deep side of Gus here. And if there's another lesson here, it's that I should never, adults, we should never pigeonhole a kid that you've got multiple sides to both of you, your deep sides, your funny sides, your inquisitive sides. And maybe our job as leaders is to discover those things in you and not just label you as
00:50:28
Speaker
That's the good kid. That's the bad kid. That's the Christian kid. That's the whatever kids like, no, you've got layers to you guys. So thank you for showing me that today. Well, thank you so much for having us. This was really fun. Absolutely. And as we wrap up.
00:50:44
Speaker
this series of the faith of the next generation and how important it is. I would like to point you back to normalgoasalongway.com. In addition, our social media outlets at normalgoasalongway, because we have tons of resources for you. If you even want to email me, you can. Hello at JillDivine.com. I would love to equip you with
00:51:07
Speaker
different resources or connect you directly to Hannah or Ryan or Justin. It is so important that we make sure the next generation knows about Jesus, knows about the love that he has for them. And so please, if you are feeling it in your heart, you feel like you need a little bit more, don't hesitate to contact me.
00:51:32
Speaker
I'd also like to invite you to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast. By doing so, this podcast gets a little bit more noticed. And it also allows you to get notifications when a new episode is going to launch. So I would appreciate that as well. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Normal Goes a Long Way.