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Challenging the "Boys will be Boys" Mentality
16 Plays14 days ago
"Boys will be boys" - it's time to challenge this old mentality, but how do we do that without causing further damage to our boys?
An important and timely conversation with Kathy Imabayashi who has been an educator across the globe, and has been a passionate advocate for understanding and supporting the unique needs of boys. Through teacher workshops, presentations, parent counseling and information sessions, she has worked tirelessly to challenge stereotypes and reshape perceptions about masculinity in society.
Through her work and social media presence, she remains steadfast in her mission to create a more empathetic and understanding world for boys, challenging societal norms and fostering respect for their unique journeys.
Find Kathy on IG @sonhoodcoaching
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Transcript
Introduction: Impact on Children's Lives
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Momtabulous. I'm Sharla Mandair and with me today is Kathy Imabayashi. She has dedicated her career to positively impacting the lives of children, parents and educators around the world.
00:00:16
Speaker
With a wealth of experience spanning various educational and cultural settings and leadership roles, Cathy has left an indelible mark on the lives of children, parents, and teachers.
Kathy's Career Journey
00:00:27
Speaker
From her early days as an elementary teacher in Canada, to her leadership roles as a principal in Georgia and a director in Qatar and Tokyo, Kathy has consistently strived to make a difference.
00:00:40
Speaker
Her journey has taken her from classrooms in Japan and Lebanon to administrative positions in Thailand and Hiroshima, shaping the lives of countless students and colleagues throughout the way.
00:00:52
Speaker
Throughout her distinguished career, she has been a passionate advocate for understanding and supporting the unique needs of boys. Through teacher workshops, presentations, parent counseling, and information sessions,
00:01:04
Speaker
She's worked tirelessly to challenge stereotypes and reshape perceptions about masculinity in society. Today, she resides in Inoshima, Fukukuken, Japan, I'm sure I didn't say that right, where she shares her knowledge and strategies through live workshops, online webinars, and personalized coaching sessions.
Challenging Masculinity Stereotypes
00:01:25
Speaker
Among her many achievements, she takes pride in raising her own son to become a remarkable man and in founding Sonhood Coaching, where she continues to empower parents and educators with her expertise.
00:01:38
Speaker
Wow. Welcome, Kathy. I'm so glad you're here. her Thank you, Sharla. Thank you for having me. And we were just talking before we hit record, this the timing of the recording of this, even though it's not, this isn't when it will come out, but the timing of the recording of this is really like the very apropos because we had our our election here in America yesterday. So when we talk about raising boys and raising men, um here we are.
00:02:06
Speaker
so I appreciate you being on. um So tell me more like about you are, you're in Japan and I know I didn't pronounce that right. So. It's Itoshima. Itoshima is the ah village area that I live in. and love it and so i I love it. I've always wanted to go to Japan.
00:02:26
Speaker
um So how did you, you you have a big background in education, but how did you um end up working specifically with like with boys and parents of boys?
Personal Experiences with Gender Bias
00:02:38
Speaker
Well, it's not that I've worked specifically with boys um throughout my career. They were a big part of my career because it's an education. But um how I got started in this kind of – ah passion-driven mission um started when our son was about three.
00:02:59
Speaker
And um I thought i was a mature mom when I had our son and i had been in education for quite a long time. So I really thought I knew what I was doing as far as parenting went. I was quite confident is is maybe how I should say that.
00:03:18
Speaker
I also felt that because of my own background growing up in the 60s, growing up with the women's liberation movement, understanding about stereotypes and and gender issues, I thought, okay, I've got that covered too. i'm I'm pretty clear on equal rights for for everybody and and considered myself to be very flexible and open-minded.
00:03:43
Speaker
And then when our son was about two, three or four, I took him one day on a little fishing you know trip with a plastic fishing rod and um down a creek road, not too far, but a little bit out of the way. And it was in Japan. So I didn't think anything about safety at all. I just, you know, we were having a lovely day.
00:04:08
Speaker
And while we were down there, um at one point, I could see through, you know, the side vision that there was, you know, some movement. And I turned and looked and I saw this, what at the time i framed in my own mind as a gang of young boys, you know, five or six young boys coming down the path.
00:04:27
Speaker
And in that moment, I was filled with total fear. And, you know, it's kind of like, you know, what am I going to do? How am I going to protect my son and myself from this gang of boys?
00:04:40
Speaker
But it was something that was not, there was no thinking about it. It was guttural, instinctive feeling that was really all encompassing.
00:04:52
Speaker
So, The boys came down, they were ah at that period of time after elementary, before middle school, it was that summer. So their bodies had grown considerably. They were only, that was the age group I was teaching at the time. I was teaching grade four, five, six.
00:05:13
Speaker
So I should have realized that, okay, these young boys, they have the bigger bodies, they their voices are starting to get, you know, deeper, but inside they are just these very sweet young boys. And I should have known that.
Cultural Stereotypes and Biases
00:05:28
Speaker
So the boys came down, we spent time together. They were wonderful. We had a good time. And that could have been the end of it. It just, and that could have been the end of the story.
00:05:39
Speaker
But I'm very analytical and I need things to make sense to me. And so i i that night I started to think, okay, where did that come from? Like, why did i you know, why did I react that way?
00:05:50
Speaker
know, when I think I don't have those biases, I don't have that, ah there's nothing that would have triggered that. I don't have that trauma or any, there was no reason. And it was just driving me nuts.
00:06:02
Speaker
And then I had this thought and I thought, okay, my little guy is three or four right now. In 10 years or 15 years or 20 years, is there going to be another mom who sees my son and is filled with total fear simply because he's a boy, not because of anything he's doing or saying or wearing, simply because he's a boy. And I thought something is wrong.
00:06:30
Speaker
if this is where we are in society. And that's where it started. And I started to dig and and learn and and then share everything that I could about, you know, trying to protect that pure, innocent little boy inside and not let the outside world, you know, have the impact that it was having now. Wow. Yeah. What an impactful story too, right? And as you were telling it, I was thinking,
00:07:00
Speaker
what was it about them? Like, were they like misbehaving? Were they holding like, what looked like weapons? Like were they, you know, were they, or, you know, and I was like, Oh, how you? You know, is it's it's such an impactful story, right. Of, of, of this, you see a group of boys and you go, Oh my gosh, are they causing some trouble?
00:07:18
Speaker
Yeah. Right. That is that, is that a societal thing or is that just something that is, um,
00:07:30
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what the right word is, like ah ah a female thing, right? Even though they were children and you were a grown adult, right? Is there something in there? Did you feel like because like how how would you protect your protect your son, right?
00:07:49
Speaker
You were thought from four five years. But that's kind of, that's what one of the biggest issues in is in trying to um ah create this awareness is that we are so bombarded with the the cultural stereotypes of what masculinity is or what femininity is, that it becomes so ingrained that it does become an unconscious gender bias. And when it's unconscious, then we just continue to perpetuate whatever that issue is.
00:08:23
Speaker
So, you know, it's not to put blame on anything, but without the awareness, um we just keep on doing the same things without thinking about it. And that's, it's a really difficult position to be in.
00:08:38
Speaker
There's one ah BBC, or think it's, I could be wrong, but there was one experiment done that I often do with people with parents, and it's um showing a portrait of a toddler and asking five questions. And, you know what do you think the child's name is, possible character, or behavior, hobbies, possible future career, that kind of those four or five questions.
00:09:07
Speaker
And the first portrait is a toddler and dressed in typically feminine clothes, a little dress, you know, that that kind of... And then they pull out another portrait of another toddler, asked exactly the same questions.
00:09:22
Speaker
And this portrait, this toddler is dressed in typical boy clothes. And the responses are very stereotypical. The little girl is, you know, Susie and she's, you know, sweet and she's probably going to be a nurse or a teacher and, you know, that kind of thing.
00:09:40
Speaker
And the little boy is Tommy and, you know, he's ah a hell raiser. He's probably going to be a truck driver and, you know, he might end up in jail. Like every single adult had that kind of stereotypical response.
00:09:53
Speaker
And then um they pulled all the parents together, had them look at their answers and then simply said, it's the same child.
00:10:05
Speaker
And it makes you kind of, it kind of shakes your thinking up. And, you know, they they never said if it was male or female, but without knowing, we attach all of these things to whether we think it's a male or a female.
00:10:21
Speaker
So those are the message that even, you know, when we think we don't have those biases, But they're there and they come out in how we talk to our children, how we accept or not accept certain behaviors.
00:10:36
Speaker
it's it's ah It's a kind of a vicious circle that perpetuates things that we don't want to perpetuate in our society. Yeah. No, 100%. What was that um little rhyme from when you were a kid, right? Of like, girl little girls are sugar spice and everything nice and boys are...
00:10:54
Speaker
Something about eating frogs. Yes. Yeah. that what it was? Yep. Yeah. So it's been back for as long as forever. Yeah. and and and And we can go into the whole, you know, if that just is teaching young girls to be sweet and kind and never speak up. Right. And that it's showing boys that all they are going to be is trouble.
00:11:15
Speaker
Right. So, you know, playing, they're going dirty and they're and in trouble all the time. And then how do we expect these two to even, you know, 20 years later, live together like it cohesively, right? of You know, that that if we want them to have healthy relationships as adults, right? That breaking that norm.
00:11:35
Speaker
The thing of it right now is that from the 60s and 70s, there have been um advances and you know we've moved forward for women.
Gender Roles and Societal Progress
00:11:45
Speaker
that yeah know There's always still room for growth, but we have really made some brilliant advances in our role in society and our thinking of ourselves as you know empowered women.
00:11:59
Speaker
In that same timeframe, there hasn't been that emphasis with ah the the other part of the population. So as we've risen and risen, they've kind of stayed the same.
00:12:10
Speaker
And in some aspects of identity, they've kind of gone down because they don't really know what their role is anymore, what they're supposed to be doing. Instead of them being the breadwinner, as you know so you know, in the 50s and 60s, the role of the male was really clear. The role of the female was really clear. And whether they were right or wrong, I'm not saying that, but it was clear.
00:12:33
Speaker
Everyone knew their role. Whereas now, As a woman anyway, I kind of think I'm limitless. Like, you know, there's no stopping. If I put my head to it, I might run up against things, but I feel empowered in my position.
00:12:51
Speaker
For the males, I don't think a lot of males feel that anymore. Women are um surpassing ah their level of education quite drastically now. ah Women are achieving higher educational degrees proportionately. So the percentage of women is much higher than it is for men.
00:13:15
Speaker
There are the salary, high salaries for women have increased drastically, whereas the average, not not the you high professionals, but the average salary for a man, family man, is not much different than it was in the seventy s So there is a ah disparity on the the growth that we've had as as humanity. And women's have had considerable growth since the 60s and 70s, and men haven't.
00:13:46
Speaker
And the world has changed and society has changed. But nowadays, men are less, ah there's less of a feeling of competence. There's less of a, you know, I know what I want. I know, you know, what my role is. I know how to get it And there is a ah disconnect between you know between males and
Emotional Support for Boys
00:14:10
Speaker
females. and And with the society that we have and the and with internet and and everything that went through with with COVID and those separations from people, now they talk about this loneliness crisis of of young boys who just you know are kind of hunkering up in their rooms basically and and not
00:14:34
Speaker
not wanting to participate in society anymore, because they don't, you know, really feel they belong or that they're accepted or it's not a good place for a lot of boys. Of course, this is a spectrum.
00:14:46
Speaker
There are some, you know, kids that never have those, you know, dark feelings maybe, but the majority of boys, I believe, um did not have their inner, their emotional world protected.
00:15:04
Speaker
And so there's so much confusion. There's so much um
00:15:10
Speaker
shame. There's so much lacking of of what their purpose is. Yeah. And I think this is like, think what you're speaking to for me when I'm hearing is like,
00:15:23
Speaker
you know, and we are in like a girl power, you know, you know, which, Hey, girl power. I love it. Right. And right. That doesn't mean that the boys have to be unempowered. And I think this is where like in our society and certainly with this election we just had, right. There was this almost threat of this female candidate, you know, that was going to take over this man's job, you know, and, and um you know, and the, and this, this whole like kind kind of thing, you know, it was there like, it was almost like a lot of people felt very threatened.
00:15:59
Speaker
And then that i I saw that in um you know, conversations with with men who are not in politics and whatever, you know what i mean? But just like, or boys. and And from from the time they're young, I believe we should be teaching our boys that feelings are okay to have and they're okay to talk about.
00:16:21
Speaker
And they're okay to share about. And it's okay to shed a tear once in a while. And, you know, i'm i have a friend who shared a story that when his dad passed away and he was young, it was like, don't don't cry at the funeral.
00:16:37
Speaker
Don't let anybody see you cry. And it's like, it's your dad's funeral. And you're, of course, if you need to cry, cry right? But something in that was not manly enough enough for this poor child who had, you know, had this devastating loss. And so teaching men, gosh, even at like someone's funeral that you can cry, or if you're feeling any certain way, you know, to talk about it. and And if we want them to be good husbands and good partners and good, you know, co-workers to women and everything, right? That that that that it's okay to
00:17:11
Speaker
have feelings to talk about them, to express them in a healthy way. Right. And that way they don't, men will tend to hold things in and then they explode. Right. So I think there's kind of two things, at least two things, uh, in what you were saying. And one of them, um,
00:17:29
Speaker
One of them, I think the onus goes on us as women. And i don't think that as women, we understand well enough about the other half of of you know humanity.
00:17:44
Speaker
I don't think, i I will speak for myself in saying that I had no idea of some of the differences, like the the biological differences, or some of the challenges that they face. i kind Because I am a you know strong, independent woman of the you know liberation movement, I kind of thought, well, everyone thinks the same way that I do.
00:18:06
Speaker
um If I have an issue, I know I want to talk about it right away. And I want to sit down face to face and and yeah know we do it now or, you know, yeah you know, all hell will break loose kind of thing, but it needs to be my way or the highway, because I thought my way is the right way.
00:18:25
Speaker
And as I learned more about some of the differences, I thought that was the biggest thing when I could really understand that there are differences and that those differences are fine. Like we don't need to be the same.
00:18:43
Speaker
And right when those are respected and acknowledged, then we don't feel like we have to be something that we're not. So you take a little boy who is just, you know,
00:18:55
Speaker
just, well, biases start even as soon as you know the gender of the baby. Like the image that you have in your mind, if you know you're having a boy or a girl, they are different.
00:19:06
Speaker
But we don't dig into that. We just kind of, oh, that's, you know, that's the way it is. And and you don't dig into it. But from the very beginning, we send messages to our children.
00:19:19
Speaker
And, you know, there's all kinds of studies that are done about, you know, the differences in the the way ah baby girls and baby boys, even like in still in the hospital, the way they are spoken to, the way they are handled, like assumptions that go with what a little boy or a little girl needs without really having those understandings that, you know, they're babies, they kind of all need the same thing.
00:19:46
Speaker
um So when that little boy starts to behave in a way that doesn't fit into what we think is okay for a little boy, and usually see that doesn't happen right in the beginning, like but within the first two or three years, by the age of four, for sure, a little boy knows what the expectations are for his behavior.
00:20:11
Speaker
And he will do anything to stay tightly connected to those people most important in his world, like his mom and dad or any other adult in in his world.
Societal Expectations and 'Boy Code'
00:20:23
Speaker
So if mom says, you know, um, don't hit your sister, you have to take care of her, ah you're a boy, you know, and those kinds of implications. if the be If the dad says, you know, when they're out, you know, he's learning how to ride a bicycle and he falls down starts to cry, if, you know, dad says, you know, okay, come on, buckle up there, yeah you know, get back on the horse and there's nothing to cry about, those kinds of messages.
00:20:52
Speaker
What that does to the little boy is it says what I'm feeling is not okay. So even though I feel hurt, I feel like I want to cry. if I cry, then my father is not going to love me as much as he does as if I didn't cry.
00:21:08
Speaker
Or my mom will not love me as much if I don't behave the way she's telling me I should behave. And so in order to keep that connection really strong, he'll put up a mask.
00:21:22
Speaker
And the next time he falls, wants to cry, he'll remember, flip on that mask and I'm fine, daddy, I'm fine. And the problem with that is that over and over and over again, this little boy needs to put on different masks in different scenarios.
00:21:43
Speaker
So by the time he gets to say that young adolescent, and and beyond, it becomes more and more difficult to tap into that pure little boy who is still in there, but it becomes more difficult to be able to connect.
00:22:01
Speaker
But it's because all those masks have been built up so that he fits in. When a little boy first starts um school, kindergarten, grade one, grade two,
00:22:13
Speaker
That is just such a difficult time for little boys because the system doesn't really cater to their style of learning or their needs. So what he comes to understand is that he's not quite good enough. He can't keep up with the little girls.
00:22:28
Speaker
Like the little girls, they go home and they play school. The little boys, they live for recess. And they come to understand that in order for them to fit into that school system, they have to not be themselves.
00:22:45
Speaker
The natural thing for them to do is be really active, physically active, to use their hands when they are trying to figure out things. But that's not the acceptable way in the classroom.
00:22:59
Speaker
So they have to put on a mask to try to become what is expected for them in an environment that is not in tune with who that real little boy is inside. So they have a lot of challenges from a very young age, and it just keeps building up.
00:23:19
Speaker
Yeah. It's a whole separate episode. We could talk about how the school system is not serving any of the children. Because think girls do. Like, I learn with my hands better. And so do my children who are both girls. So, you know, yeah, for sure. But yeah. And and the and they expect i everyone to sit still. Talk to me real quick because we we don't have a ton of more time. But there's this boy code, right? So what is the boy code and how does it impact, like,
00:23:42
Speaker
you know, how how they see themselves within. So they get into school. Is this when the boy code starts to come into play is like around school age? No, it's right from the beginning. And basically it was Dr. William Pollack. And in 98, I guess he wrote the book, Real Boys.
00:23:58
Speaker
And he was the first one to coin the phrase, the boy code. And it's society's uh, unwritten expectations on what it means to be a male.
00:24:09
Speaker
And so it's the rules that society has. So one of them is boys will be boys, boys should be boys and boys are toxic. And so basically it says, you know, because of testosterone, they are this way and you know, that's just the way it is. And so sometimes what that, how that plays out is that we say, oh, well,
00:24:32
Speaker
That's a boy thing. And we let things go. That should not be let go. Or we make um insinuations about things because that's what we think. you know that's We don't have any control over it. That's a boy's way.
00:24:46
Speaker
And then the fact that um the they're toxic. They come into this world with the assumption that there's the same way I reacted. that there is something inherently wrong with them.
00:24:59
Speaker
And they keep getting those messages. um You listen to anything on media, any songs by strong, independent women, it's often knocking down the male. So they that's how they start out is you know, well, they're toxic.
00:25:15
Speaker
So they might as well live up to the reputation. Yeah, for sure. I think changing the dialogue, right, as a parent, ah that boys will be boys thing drove me crazy as a kid. i remember there was a boy that was always kind of pulling my hair, snapping my bra, picking up. And my mom would just say, oh, he's just doing it because he likes you. Yes. He has crush on He likes you. And I was like, so, you know, with my daughter's.
00:25:42
Speaker
um there was a boy in middle school that with my oldest that would kind of pick on her. and And this was the new social media with texting and so picking on her and did that all this stuff. and And like after two years of this, he finally just went, hey, called her name out after school and went, I like you.
00:26:05
Speaker
And we had a whole conversation about, okay, but if he liked you, he would not be treating you that way. And that is not how somebody who likes you should be You know, in my head, i heard myself saying, I bet this kid's going to come out with a crush on her at some point because that's why he's doing it. But I never said it out loud to her. Right. Because I didn't want her to think this is how boys who like you treat you.
00:26:28
Speaker
But that's the boy code. that's That's what he knows is acceptable behavior. It's not acceptable behavior for him to go up to a girl and say, oh, gee, I really like you. you think we could get, you know, an ice cream together?
00:26:43
Speaker
That's not as acceptable. Yeah. yeah I mean, that would be fine, right? Hi, I like you. Can we go, you know, hang out? You want to eat lunch? Do you want to whatever? But it was the, it was the straight up bullying and rumor spreading, you know, that he was. And for me, this kid was pulling my hair and snapping my bra and, you know, all that wouldn't touch me without permission, you know, kind of stuff, right?
00:27:07
Speaker
um That I remember even as a kid being like, why is my mom just saying boys will be boys? He likes you doing it because he likes you. Why isn't she standing up for me? Yeah. Well, and I don't think, um or I think it's the same way for boys.
00:27:22
Speaker
I think boys, when they are in situations, you know, like, especially for example, a bullying situation from another boy and they wonder, you know, why, why aren't my parents standing up for me? Why are they telling me that, you know, I should be fighting back when, when they've told me that we shouldn't fight. like So they get mixed messages all the way around. Yeah.
00:27:45
Speaker
Yeah, totally. I can see that. There definitely is an expectation for boys. The boys are going to fight, right? Bike racks after school, they're going to fight it out. And the girls, the bowling with girls is usually like rumors spreading and trying to isolate them, right? Away from their friend group. But yeah, there is an expectation. The boys are just going to, with their fists, handle it, right? Because it's acceptable behavior.
00:28:09
Speaker
for Right. Yeah. Yeah. For boys, for sure. Yeah. Which it shouldn't be, right? I mean, no they'll get in trouble at school, but so how do we change that from being acceptable behavior to it's not acceptable? How do we, how do we?
Parental Roles in Gender Understanding
00:28:26
Speaker
First thing you do is, I think the most powerful people are mothers because they're the first contact with the other half. And so I think And mothers will, the power of mothers is incredible.
00:28:40
Speaker
So I think that's the first thing. Mothers need to be aware of the differences and learn about them, like really become aware, really learn about them and then advocate, advocate for their boy and for all little boys so that the world of boys and girls is better.
00:28:57
Speaker
And I think that's where it starts. Yeah, for sure. And that,
00:29:05
Speaker
How about like the dad as a role model, like, or, if or a ah father figure or ah the, if the dad is in their life, right. As, as a role model that hopefully
00:29:17
Speaker
he has worked on some of this boys will be boys boycote. stuff on himself? like Again, um I think the dad is crucial. And I think his role modeling is crucial, whether he's aware of the messages that he's sending out or not, those messages are being received by his son. So I think he's extremely important.
00:29:38
Speaker
Maybe some men are more advanced and they will tap into you know what their own you know background and baggage might be. But my experience is it's more often the conversations that his partner will have with him.
00:29:53
Speaker
So if I approach my husband and I share what I've been reading, what I understand, I share my interpretation of what's happening with our son so that we can kind of get on the page.
00:30:06
Speaker
I take on that responsibility myself because he has had no part of society growing up that has said, you know, tap into your inner emotional self and, and you know.
00:30:17
Speaker
So I think the fathers are crucial. I think they're extremely important. And I think we, they are male. So we also still need to be able to provide them with some guidance and support while they're figuring things out as well.
00:30:35
Speaker
Yeah. But if it's a single mom household, right. Yeah. And there's a lot of those. There are a lot. Right. And so. If there is no father figure, there the mother is, and and we've already said the mom is so important, right? Obviously. yeah and so it it's ok like, you can do it, mom, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. um Absolutely. absolutely It doesn't need to be the person, the male.
00:31:01
Speaker
The male doesn't have to be living in the same household. And as the boy gets older, then that male influence is even more critical. But it doesn't need to, it just needs to be a good man.
00:31:13
Speaker
It needs to be, you know, someone, it could be an uncle, a grandfather, you know, a sports coach, or it could be anybody, but someone who is a really good role model um for that little boy.
00:31:28
Speaker
Yeah. So final thought, real, real quick. We raise boys to be emotionally aware, right? And be able to talk to us by having the awareness, having the knowledge, right? Taking some action and opening the conversation ourselves and making it okay, right? That it's acceptable and okay when you have...
Encouraging Emotional Expression in Boys
00:31:50
Speaker
and telling telling them, explaining about the boycott, explaining this is the way it is in society. You will be getting these messages. It's not about you.
00:32:01
Speaker
And so that your house becomes the safe space where they know they can explore all their emotions. You help give them all that extra vocabulary so they know that inside they don't need to put on all those masks.
00:32:14
Speaker
They will still go into society And they will need to behave in a way that maybe sometimes is not their authentic selves. But it's not going that mask isn't going to be permanent. And that's that's kind of you know the next best thing, so that he can still tap into that you know really pure little boy inside. Yeah.
00:32:36
Speaker
And to to teach him, to raise him to to treat women differently. in girls, his age, his peers, right? With respect. And i don't think that's gender, Sharla. I don't think that's gender. And I think it's, we need to be at a point where we're saying we're all humans.
00:32:56
Speaker
We're all different and we all need to respect ourselves. And I think that's, this that's, that's the message to everybody. Absolutely. A hundred percent. Yeah.
00:33:08
Speaker
Yeah. And in that boy code, you know, cause I have a high schooler. So in that boy code, right. There's the, uh, you know, when you are dating someone, you know, we're talking a lot about body autonomy and yeah no's no, and to respect the no. And if he doesn't, you know, run and call me, you know, um, you know, but don't you know,
00:33:32
Speaker
that's the That's the big fear. And that's a whole separate conversation, but that's the big fear as a mom of a high school girl. Well, and and the thing is, you can be pretty sure, you can be pretty sure, not you can't be definitely sure, but you can be pretty sure that boy is not getting those same conversations by most families. that He's not had that buildup of talking about your emotions, being aware of your emotions, being um true to yourself. So you get someone at that age,
00:34:02
Speaker
And unless they've got someone very special who can sit down and say, you know, what you see on media and what you, you know, your friends are telling you, that's not really what a relationship and then helping them.
00:34:16
Speaker
Like they don't usually have that kind of a person who just says straight out. This is what's acceptable behavior, and this is what isn't. And if you really care about, you know, this relationship, there are some basic parts of humanity. They're not getting the same conversations that that the girls are, and they need to. They deserve to have that, you know, knowledge.
00:34:40
Speaker
Yeah. And awareness. sure. They do. They deserve it too, Yeah. ah Absolutely. This has been such a great conversation. i love, I love this because, you know, I'm i'm coming from the perspective of raising daughters yeah and then, you know, and you have raised a son. And so, you know, I love, I love having the conversations and the different mom perspectives because it is all, in but and raising kids is hard. It's hard. Boys are girls.
00:35:06
Speaker
forward Yeah. Yeah. it's hard It's hard right now. You know and yeah um ah you were talking about them withdrawing. you know Everything is done right now over Snapchat.
00:35:17
Speaker
This is Snapchat and I don't like Snapchat. But you know there's different Ways of if they send you a picture of their face or no face or the wall, it's their level of interest in you. and And it's a whole, it's like, they can't, they don't, they're not, they're also not learning to go up and talk. Social skills. Yes.
00:35:36
Speaker
Talk to each other. It's, it's, it's through here. So there is a withdrawing. Yeah. I don't know if it's post COVID or if it's just more social media. just because of, ah as the years go on, there's gonna be more and more too.
00:35:51
Speaker
But, um you know, there there is a withdrawing from the human interaction that when I was in high school, the boy had to like work through the sweaty pits and come up to me and talk to me and ask me out and all of that, or call the house and my parents would answer the phone, they'd have to wait for me. And, you know, now they just yeah Snapchat a picture of the wall and and they're communicating in some way. Yeah. Yeah, I don't envy um parents today. they're They're faced with challenges that are new and that aren't really regulated. And we don't really have all the information to be making to know if we're making smart choices or not.
00:36:28
Speaker
So that's kind of like the wild, wild west. Yeah, it's very it is new territory. And and, you know, by the time my 12 year old is is this age, it's going to be something different.
00:36:40
Speaker
Maybe it won't be Snapchat. It'll be something else. And and we've got to relearn it all over again. But if there's going to constant relearning as parents in general. And, you know, the one thing I did say to her is please don't ever say yes to a boy if he asks you out on a date through Snapchat.
00:36:55
Speaker
like please make him come talk to you to your face. Like that's the very, and she goes, oh, I would never. And I go, okay, good. Because to me, that's like basic level expectation. That is the bottom of the barrel of an expectation to me of like, don't just Snapchat want to go out. Like, please yeah talk to her, give her that respect and, and every him that respect too. Right.
00:37:20
Speaker
Because once, once a girl goes, okay to that, then, then it's like that worked. Yeah. Well, think there's there's a certain amount that you can't control that that is part of this new world that maybe our kids know more about it than we do. But I do think that as a family unit, we are powerful.
00:37:39
Speaker
And if we keep our connection to our children and our communication really deep with our children, then then no matter if we don't really tune in on what the real issues are, because that's not part of our world, if we can keep that communication door wide open and they feel they can talk to us, then we still have the ability to positively impact people them. and And I think that's that's something that we can all do regardless on what our level of you know the new social world that they're part of, what what our awareness is. We can always focus on our relationships so that we can always be part of their world.
00:38:19
Speaker
Yeah. Awesome. That is great note to end on. Thank you so much, Kathy, for being here and your time and um and all your knowledge. It's been a great conversation.
00:38:30
Speaker
Thank you very much for having me. right. And we'll see you in the next episode.