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Swamp Thing (1982)
160 Plays6 years ago
Did you know Wes Craven directed a superhero movie? Or that Swamp Thing has Batman/Superman levels of exposure in other media? Join us as we talk about these issues and more as we watch 1982’s Swamp Thing!
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Transcript
Orchids and Emotional Moments
00:00:23
Speaker
Nice Orchid. Family orchid, daisy eye. Janice, orchus. Over a hundred species here. Much will be in smoke. If you only look.
00:00:54
Speaker
Alan? Oh, I'm sorry. It must hurt. Does it?
00:01:20
Speaker
Only when I laugh. Like I'm crazy.
00:01:50
Speaker
Isn't this a dream? That's what I keep asking myself. Everything's a dream. When you're alone...
Introduction and Joker's Success
00:02:21
Speaker
Welcome to the Superhero Cinephiles Podcast. I'm your host, Perry Constantine. And I'm your co-host, Derek Ferguson. How are you doing today, Derek? Pretty good. Pretty good. How are you today, my friend? I'm doing pretty good. In fact, I saw Joker last week.
00:02:38
Speaker
Ah, I didn't even know it was, it had opened there yet. Well, they did say it made a shitload of money. I mean, you know, internationally here in America, I think it made like almost, it was like $90 million the first weekend it opened.
00:02:54
Speaker
Oh yeah, it's broken records all over the place. And yeah, with, you know, American movies in Japan, it's really weird. Like a lot of most movies, like it won't come out until like three months or later here. Like we just got...
00:03:11
Speaker
John Wick Chapter 3 just came out in theaters here, and also Brightburn, I think it's coming out next month, which I already bought on iTunes, so. So yeah, some movies take a while to get out here, but the ones that are, and like Ant-Man and the Wasp came out here later, but the ones that are popular.
00:03:28
Speaker
they, the franchises that are popular or that they think will be popular, they release them at the same time. So the Avengers, even though Ant-Man and the Wasp came out here like I think two months late, like Avengers Endgame and pretty much every Avengers movie, every main Avengers movie after the first one has come out like at the same time or in the case of Captain America, Civil War, it actually came out like a week early. Really? Oh, okay. Yeah. Very interesting. Yeah. So what'd you think of Joker?
Joker's Character Debate
00:03:57
Speaker
You know what, it's, cause I don't know if I told you this, but I was really skeptical going into it because my whole thought about the Joker is that he's not really a character, right? He's a force of nature. He's someone who's there to challenge Batman. But as a character himself, like he's all over the place, right? He's basically whatever Batman needs to be opposed to. So he's always like a reflection of whatever era Batman is in at the time.
00:04:27
Speaker
So in the 60s show, he's like this clownish buffoon type. And then in the 80s, he became much darker, had this much darker, harder edge to him. So he's always kind of changing based on...
00:04:43
Speaker
what version of Batman he's facing. He's always that dark reflection of Batman in some way. And he's always been like this chaotic force of nature type of character, but he's not a character himself. And that actually really works for the character, because it's always been like this whole frightening thing about him.
00:05:03
Speaker
Who is he? You don't know who he is. You don't know where he came from. You don't know what motivates him. You don't know anything about him. And as a character that you know as a writer yourself, it's kind of hard to make a character like that a protagonist. Right, exactly, yeah.
00:05:23
Speaker
And that works for the characters. So I was really nervous going in because they were like, oh, this is going to be an origin story for the Joker. And, you know, I've never liked the idea of the Joker having an origin story.
00:05:37
Speaker
Like, that's one of the, we didn't talk about this when we talked about Batman, but that was one of the things that kind of disappointed me, the fact that he had this backstory going into it, where he was the guy who killed Bruce Wayne's parents, and he worked for the mob, and all that stuff, yeah. Yeah, see, because, see, to my mind, and I don't know if we went into this when we did the Batman episode, that we should've went in. See, my whole thing is that I don't think Batman should ever catch the guy that killed his parents, Joe Chill.
00:06:03
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Same thing. I mean, that's one of the things that when they did, I think it was zero hour in the comics, they changed it so that Batman, so that the guy who killed Batman's parents was never, his identity was never uncovered. That was the one case he could never solve. And that's always
00:06:21
Speaker
I think that's always been kind of a good thing for the character because he never he never knows. And he's always that's one of the reasons that motivates him because he's never cracked that case. Right. Well, see, to me, that's the whole thing, because if you're Batman and you catch the guy that kills your parents, you say, OK, well, I could stop now.
Darkness and Society in Joker
00:06:41
Speaker
Right. Right. But but, you know, you never know no matter how many cooks you catch, you never know if that's the guy.
00:06:50
Speaker
In fact, there was actually, there was a fan theory about the first Batman movie that Joker didn't actually kill his parents, but he actually project psychologically projects that on every villain he goes after. Hmm, okay.
00:07:05
Speaker
I can see that. It doesn't quite hold up to the movie itself because he sees the he looks up the file and everything. Right. Joker acknowledges it himself. But but it's an interesting theory nonetheless. Yeah. Well, listen, when it comes to the psychological aspect of Batman, that's always interesting to delve into, which is what makes the character. Really, that's what gives him is he's got that psychological
00:07:29
Speaker
You know, depth to him, you know, and but yeah, but I mean, I've heard a lot about this movie. I haven't seen it yet. And I'm not sure. OK, I didn't want to go see it because. I was like you, I didn't think that the Joker deserved or needed to have an origin story, however.
00:07:52
Speaker
stuff that I've been reading and doing a lot of thinking myself about the times that we live in. I'm wondering if this isn't the Joker movie that we deserve.
00:08:05
Speaker
Because our entertainment is a reflection of who we are. Right, right. And like you said, you know, and as you said, you know, the Joker back in the 1960s, yeah, he was this, you know, he was the Joker, but he wasn't a psychopathic, murderous, you know, force of nature. Right. But gradually over the years, yeah, the Joker has become has become increasingly darker and darker. And I'm saying, wait a minute, how dark can he push his character?
00:08:31
Speaker
But then again, we're pushing our own society into a very dark place. And we're just getting darker and darker.
00:08:40
Speaker
you know, in the things that are going on in our society now. So yeah, so maybe this Joker movie is only a reflection of what is actually happening to our society. Now, I mean, I don't know. I have to go see this. But like I said, from what I'm hearing from a lot of people, it seems to me that this movie is nothing more than just an accurate reflection of what's happening to us now.
Joker's Chaos and Origins
00:09:02
Speaker
Oh, it totally is. It totally is. And so that's the thing.
00:09:07
Speaker
Like I hated the idea of a Joker origin story. I'm like, we don't need an origin story. The Joker's not really a character. He's, he's chaos personified. We don't need to see that guy. Like it, it takes away from the character's mystery and his strengths if you actually make him a character, ironically enough. But.
00:09:27
Speaker
So I was really nervous about seeing it and like the only Joker origin story I've ever really liked somewhat was the flashbacks in Killing Joke and part of it is because in Killing Joke like the Joker himself says you know
00:09:43
Speaker
Sometimes I remember it one way sometimes another way he says if I have a backstory I want it to be multiple choice looks like this he kind of he's constantly recreating his memory so you don't know he's he's the definition of an unreliable narrator in that story you don't know if everything you've read about his past is true or not and even still like the details that give are very limited and they never like reveal his name or anything like that and
00:10:09
Speaker
The Dark Knight did this as well to an extent. Whenever he talks about how he got the scars, it's always a different story. It's always a different story, right? Yeah. You know what? I've always felt that they should do if DC had wanted to do it. I remember, I think it was back during the 80s when DC was publishing a magazine called Secret Origins.
00:10:30
Speaker
And they did an 80 page special on the Phantom Stranger. And they had like four or five different origin stories for the Phantom Stranger. And they said, okay, whichever one you like, you can make that as original. If you don't want any of them to be as origin, that's okay. And I said, you know what?
00:10:48
Speaker
That would work for the Joker. If you could just, I mean, every time you see him and he shows him, he's got a different origin story. That works for me, you know, instead of just saying, OK, this is his definitive origin. Denny O'Neill said that when he was editing the Bat books at several times, like writers tried to give Joker the Jack Napier name from the movie. And every time he shot them down, he's like, no, no, we're not doing that. Yeah.
00:11:12
Speaker
And they did do it one time, but it was in an Elseworld story, which is the Batman White Knight story, where the Joker goes sane and becomes like a hero for Gotham. Which, if you haven't read it, guys, it's a really good story. It's called Batman White Knight. And I think they might still have a sale going right now. I mean, they've always got a sale at Comixology. But check it out. Them people already got enough of my money.
00:11:41
Speaker
Oh, man, they kill me with their sales. They kill me with it. But you know, so here's the thing about their sales is that it's so damn cheap. You. Yeah. You feel like an ass for not buying it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they're always and they know they got me because they're all because now I'm like the Facebook algorithms know that I'm into that. So like, yeah. Yeah. We've seen the ads for Comixology on Facebook. I'm like, all right, well, let me check what the sales are today.
00:12:06
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I said they but again, like I said, there's so much good stuff and it's so cheap that, you know, like I said, well, there's no way I cannot buy this. I got to buy. In fact, I just bought the first trade for the Buffy reboot because they rebooted Buffy in the comics. And how much was that? That was like, I don't know, like three, four bucks or something. Maybe five bucks. Oh, yes, exactly. Yeah.
00:12:36
Speaker
Yeah, they're
Joaquin Phoenix and Todd Phillips on Joker
00:12:38
Speaker
killing me. So I was planning on waiting until this movie came out to iTunes or something to go ahead and rent it there. Because I'm just like, you know what, I'm not going to go see it in the theater. I don't care that much about it. And when I saw the trailers, I'm like, yeah, it looks interesting, but I still had that bias going in. But my girlfriend actually wanted to see it. So she's like, let's go see Joker. And I'm like, oh.
00:13:02
Speaker
Alright fine let's go see joker then so we want to see it and when see on friday night and which i was surprised that she wanted to see it i'm but she likes horror movies and i've gotten her into superhero movies so she really wanted to see it so so we went last week on friday and. Like there been.
00:13:28
Speaker
to you.
00:13:38
Speaker
A little bit too much, you know, jerking off over, uh, Scorsese films because it's, there's tons of like Taxi Driver and, um, King Comedy references and all that. Um, and yeah, it gets a little full of itself at times, but overall it's really good. And I was really impressed because the director is Todd Phillips, who's done like The Hangover and Road Trip and movies like that.
00:14:02
Speaker
Yeah, this is the same guy that did the hangover. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. See now, that's the one reason why I would want to see it. Because you know, I'm saying, wait a minute. This guy, wait a minute.
00:14:16
Speaker
Because I remember the hangover, how crazy those movies was. And this seemed just so completely different from those those. You know, I couldn't even imagine what would possess him to want to do something like this. But I admire him, you know. And like you said, you know, suppose I mean,
Film Overanalysis Trends
00:14:34
Speaker
everybody is talking about this. OK, well, if you see Task Driver and, you know, you know, 1970s Martin Scorsese, they said that this movie is very much in the vein of that.
00:14:46
Speaker
Yeah, it definitely is. And yeah, if you've seen Taxi Driver, if you've seen King Comedy, it basically follows the same beats of those movies. But even still, it's a good movie. It's entertaining. Joaquin Phoenix is amazing in it. He does a really great job. But overall, even coming out of it, my whole thing is, you know what? It's a great movie. It's not the Joker. But it's still a great movie. Well, you heard what the latest theory is now, right?
00:15:16
Speaker
I don't know. I've heard so many theories since this movie came out. Okay. Well, I just heard one today. I heard one today that this, that, okay. This is the latest theory that this is not actually the Joker who ends up being Batman's arch nemesis. He's just like the inspiration for the guy that really does become the Joker because Batman's, you know, arch enemy.
00:15:40
Speaker
Yeah, I've heard that too. And people are trying to link it to the DCEU through that. And they're saying like, you know, maybe this will be like the basis for the Batman when it comes out two years or something like that. And I'm just like, you know what? Just let the movie stand on its own. Just anyhow, I mean, Todd Phillips said the same thing. He's like, you know what? It's just this movie. We're not planning on doing anything else after this. So just let it stand on its own. It works on its own. You don't need to connect it to anything larger.
00:16:08
Speaker
Why can't you just take it as the filmic equivalence of the Elseworlds? Exactly. Yeah. I mean, that's how I look at it anyway. You know, well, it's else. You know, this is Elseworld. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like people are always trying to link stuff together that doesn't have to be linked. So I remember when Batman Begins came out, everyone was like, oh, this is a prequel to the 89 Batman because he gets the Joker card. I'm like, no, it's not. It's a it's a completely different movie. Yeah.
00:16:39
Speaker
Just enjoy, just enjoy what it is. Not everything has to be interconnected. You know, listen, people on the internet have way too much time on their hands. I remember when that movie, Life, came out and people was trying to link that into Venom. They were saying, oh, this is a backdoor, a prequel to that movie of Venom. And then they said, no. And the filmmakers said, no, it's got nothing to do with Venom.
00:17:04
Speaker
Every time people bend over backwards, because I'm on Reddit and I check out some of the movie subreddits every now and then, or the Marvel Studios ones. Man, the amount of things that people dissect these films and try to fit things together that don't fit together, it's unbelievable. If they would put that much brain power into figuring out how to improve their lives. Yeah.
00:17:30
Speaker
You know, I tell people all the time, you know what, take that same brain power that you use in trying to, you know, figure out the continuity of the X-Men movies and figure out how to get a job, maybe. But hey, that's just me, folks, you know, not with you. All right.
Horror Films and Rob Zombie
00:17:52
Speaker
So today we're talking about the 1982 Swamp Thing, which was your recommendation.
00:17:59
Speaker
Right. OK. And and listen, let me make a note. Let me watch Joker and then, you know, we'll get back and we'll do a whole episode about that. That sounds good to me. Yeah. That sounds like a good idea. But yeah, I do. Yeah, we're doing something today. It's the movie that I pick because as you folks know, me and Perry, we alternate, you know, he picks one that I pick when he picks one, he picks one. And I picked this one because I knew we were going to be doing it in October.
00:18:30
Speaker
And October, of course, is, you know, Halloween is in there. So, like, the whole month is, like, kind of dedicated to, you know, the supernatural and horror and Gothic stuff and vampires and werewolves and stuff like that. So I picked, you know, I just didn't pick Swamp Thing at random, although it may seem like I did, but, no, I didn't. Because, for one, it was written and directed by that great, great man, Wes Craven.
00:18:58
Speaker
Yeah, in fact, this was his first major movie, basically, because he before this, he'd done, you know, low budget horror movies. He'd done Last House on the Left and The Hills Have Eyes. But this was like basically his audition tape to show the studios that he could handle a bigger budget. He could handle like stunts and action and that kind of thing.
00:19:18
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And as a lot of people know, but and for those of you don't, Wes Craven created, you know, my all time favorite horror movie franchise, A Nightmare on Elm Street. Hell yeah. Oh, one of that. Like, I'm not a big slasher movie fan, but Nightmare on Elm Street is, you know, it's it's head and shoulders above the rest. You can keep Friday the 13th.
00:19:47
Speaker
Halloween, the only ones that I like is the first one and the third one. You can keep the rest of those. Have you seen the new Halloween that brought back Jamie Lee Curtis? Yes, I did. What do you think of that one? Meh. Oh, really? I thought it was pretty good. I thought it was a nice way to like... Because it was an update. It's a new sequel to the first Halloween movie. It ignores everything else.
00:20:14
Speaker
Yeah, but you know what? I kind of, but see me, like I became played out with Halloween like a long time ago. You know, I think the last, um, I actually wouldn't see the Rob zombie.
00:20:27
Speaker
Halloween, only because I like Rob D'Ami, because I remember him from when he hosted turner classic movies, they're underground. And I was really impressed with his overall knowledge of film, period. I mean, the guy just doesn't know horror movies. Believe me, Rob D'Ami knows movies like a monkey knows coconuts. So that's why I went to see it. However, I felt,
00:20:53
Speaker
about Michael Myers the same way that we feel about the Joker. He's a character I didn't feel needed an origin story. And I think that Rob Zombie's Halloween would have been much better if he had did that. I felt like he wanted to do his own story and he just called it Halloween to capitalize on it. I really don't think he wanted to really remake Halloween.
00:21:14
Speaker
You know, yeah, I just want to do a redneck white trash horror movie, really. Yeah, which is what he keeps making over and over again. Well, yeah, basically, which is nothing wrong with that. I mean, you know, listen, that's a respectable genre to work in. And I think that when he sticks with his original characters, like there's a reason why everybody says the devil's rejects is his best movie.
00:21:39
Speaker
Uh-huh. Cause this is all him. Yeah, yeah. I kinda got played out with him actually when I saw, um, cause I, I saw his, I actually, Halloween was a step up for me for him because the fur, cause I saw, I went into House of a Thousand Corpses because, you know, there's all this talk about how they couldn't find a distributor cause it was so extreme. And I went to see it. I'm like, this is nothing.
00:22:01
Speaker
So I was kind of disappointed in it because of that. And so hello. And then I skipped Devil's Rejects and then Halloween actually kind of maybe take another look at him because it was it was really well done, even if it was kind of flawed in places with the origins. I mean, you know what? Rob's army, even though I feel that he's for me, a lot of times he's a hit or miss kind of director. The one thing I respect about him is that he's never boring.
00:22:29
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. And that's what will keep me coming back. Like, what was it? It was a Salem. I like that. Mm hmm. I don't like that. Like I said, there's others of his movies like, OK, I'm with you. House of 1000 Corps. I didn't like that. You know, yeah. But like I said, he's not boring. And if you come out with a movie, yeah, I'll see it. You know,
Wes Craven's Horror Influence
00:22:52
Speaker
simply because he knows how to tell the story. He knows how to keep a story moving. He knows what to do with Carrie. He, you know, he knows when to tell the story visually and he knows when to tell her with dialogue. So on that basis. And yeah. And
00:23:14
Speaker
he's got a lot of that too. I mean, the nightmare on the street, the hills have eyes, last house and left, the serpent and the rainbow, which is like one of the most underrated horror movies ever made. People under the stairs, you know, he, you know, I mean, Wes Craven,
00:23:31
Speaker
To me, he's the man. He can't do no wrong. And he does no wrong with Swamp Thing. Oh, and he, I mean, he reinvented the slasher genre when he did Scream with, you know, going full on meta with that movie. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, long after people thought that the genre was dead, he came back and said, nope, I'm going to bring this course back to life. Yeah. And in fact,
00:23:56
Speaker
And because we were watching, my girlfriend and I, we watched the first two screen movies last week, actually. And you know what? They still hold up. You know, they're still really good. Like, they're not they're not scary at all. But it's more like what he's saying about the genre. Yeah. Yeah. And to me, it's the same way with The Nightmare on Elm Street. You know, to me, I can watch New Nightmare, which is completely underrated. You know, it's still to me because
00:24:25
Speaker
I don't know. Well, how can I put it? You know what? He played with reality in the same way that my second favorite horror movie franchise does, which is Phantasm.
Favorite Horror Franchises
00:24:37
Speaker
You know, both of them play with dreams and reality in a way. And in every Nightmare on Elm Street movie, they did something different. It's not like Friday the 13th where, frankly, I can't keep them straight in my head with, you know, which one is which because they all kind of like blend to
00:24:56
Speaker
you know, one big mishmash, but every nightmare on Elm Street movie, yeah, I can say, okay, I can tell you what this one's about. I can tell you what that one's about. I can tell you what this one's about. There were only, I think maybe three Friday the 13th movies I actually liked and they're not the ones you'd expect. So they're Jason X just because it's completely over the top and it just has no fucks to give.
00:25:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretty versus Jason. Yeah, that's the one where they go into space. Yeah. And it's just like, it's just, it's like half parody the whole time and it's hilarious.
00:25:31
Speaker
And then Freddy vs. Jason. Freddy vs. Jason, yeah. Again, that's another movie. They're just like, you know what? We're just going to have fun with this. And it's a lot of fun. And the other one is one that a lot of horror films are going to get pissed off at me for saying this, but the Friday the 13th remake. We had Jared Padalecki from Supernatural.
00:25:53
Speaker
Danielle Panabaker from The Flash, and Derek Mears. He plays Jason in that, and he plays the new Swamp Thing, actually, bringing it back to this movie in the DC Universe TV show. But I thought they did a really good job with that reboot, because they mixed elements from the original series. They kind of fit things together really well.
00:26:17
Speaker
And you had one guy who, I think it was the guy who plays Han in the Fast and the Furious movies. He's in it too, and he's absolutely hilarious. Oh, okay. Now see, I've never seen it, but based on your recommendation, yeah, I wanna check it out now. Yeah, like I'm sure if you're a Friday the 13th, you know, devotee, you're gonna hate it, but I thought it was a really well done movie.
00:26:40
Speaker
Okay, cool.
Friday the 13th Remake Discussion
00:26:41
Speaker
Cool. Interesting. They had Jason Moores like this because they really leaned into the fact that he was a kid when he was presumed dead and they opened up with his mother in the first movie and she's in a prequel part of the movie and then she disappears pretty much the rest of the movie after she dies.
00:27:01
Speaker
and then he grew up on his own in the woods so he's basically like a survivalist type and they really leaned into that so he's kind of like a Rambo type of figure like setting traps to kill his victims. Oh okay all right so that's something different. Yeah so I definitely definitely check that out I think you'll I think you really like it.
00:27:19
Speaker
Okay, well, thank you very much. Listen, I wouldn't have bothered unless somebody whose opinion I trust, like you, says, okay, you ought to check it out. So yeah, I wouldn't make an appointment to check that out. But yeah, like most of those horror movie franchises, like really, like, first of all, you have to realize something. When I was growing up, horror movies never scared me. See, I had other things that scared me, like going to school and
00:27:44
Speaker
you know i mean i watch them and i can appreciate them like for entertainment like like to scare me you know they don't scare me you know but you know there are precious few that have scared me like i think um
00:28:05
Speaker
Some of the Japanese ones have scared me. The Insidious movies, those have creeped me out and they've scared me at times. The Exorcist, when I first watched it, scared the crap out of me. But other than that, most of the Shining too, the first time I saw that, it scared the crap out of me. But most times, they don't scare me.
00:28:29
Speaker
Yeah, now some of them Japanese ones. What was this Japanese movie I saw last year? Some went something with the devil was in the title. Oh, man. That thing was that thing was good, though. I'm not sure. I don't think I know that one. I probably will know it once you if you remember the title. But the year off the top of my head, I can't remember anything that you recommended to me. The one with that, you know, the the Japanese director that you
Japanese Horror Films
00:28:58
Speaker
Your little audition Takashi Miki. Yeah. Each of the killer. Oh, each of the killer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That one. Yeah. Yeah. That one freaked me out for a couple of days. Yeah. That one. I got to do that in my Japanese podcast, actually, at some point, because I haven't seen that movie in a few years.
00:29:20
Speaker
Does that's one of the movies that I'm not going to show in my class? No, no, no, no, no. I made that mistake of watching a movie at night. I think I watched it like 12 o'clock at night. And I said, that movie, Requiem for a Dream, I should never watch it at night. Oh, my god. God, Requiem for a Dream, which actually has a Japanese reference in it, because the scene when she's in the bathtub, that's
00:29:45
Speaker
That's a reference to this psychological thriller anime called Perfect Blue. Oh, OK. Which you should check that out, because that's that's really intense. That's one of those movies that I'm you know what, I appreciate having seen it because of the technical artistry and the acting and stuff like that. But that's a movie if I never see it again in life.
00:30:11
Speaker
It's all right with me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I haven't seen that movie in like maybe 15 years and I don't think I'd be able to sit through it again. Oh, man. No, no, no. I mean, I recommend it to people, but I tell them I tell them, listen, if you don't watch it, watch it during the daytime and make sure you're in a good mental place when you watch it. Yeah, that too. You know, put yourself in a good mental place because after you watch it. Oh, man. Yeah.
00:30:42
Speaker
All right. All right. So, so we, um, yeah, we've digressed enough.
Swamp Thing's Grindhouse Experience
00:30:50
Speaker
So, um, what's your memory of this movie? Cause you've, I'm sure you've seen this before, you know, we talked, we chose it for this episode.
00:30:58
Speaker
yeah i saw this like i like many movies that i've seen and just let me explain something real quick for you good people that are listening to this you're gonna hear me refer to a movie a lot of times as a grindhouse movie
00:31:14
Speaker
That's because a lot of movies that you've seen at home, and I've had this argument with people when I referred to a movie as a Grindhouse movie, oh no, that's not Grindhouse, that's not Grindhouse. Well, yeah, it's Grindhouse to me because if I saw it in a 42nd Street theater,
00:31:30
Speaker
which is what most movies I saw, I considered it to be Grindhouse because that's where I would saw most of my movies at during the 70s and 80s. I saw them in a Grindhouse, so yeah. For you, Grindhouse isn't just a style. It's the actual place where you, it's reflected in the place where you saw it. It was the actual place I saw it. Me and Tom DJ back in Better in the Dark, we did a whole episode about, it was the whole, matter of fact, it was the whole culture, as a matter of fact. I'm gonna go ahead and call it a whole Grindhouse.
00:32:00
Speaker
culture because you went into this darkened theater, it usually smelled like pot. You know, you had guys in there who were openly selling drugs, you had people that came in there with bottles of liquor on Friday or Saturday. When me and Patricia went to see the original nightmare on Elm Street and we went to 42nd Street Grindhouse, there were people coming in with coolers full of beer and liquor. And they were selling them. I mean, and it was a party atmosphere.
00:32:29
Speaker
You know, yeah, I mean, you were coming. I mean, people were smoking weed and oh, you know, if I could find the episode, I will provide a link so you so you folks can listen to it for yourself. So you know what I'm talking about. But getting back to the point of what we're talking about. Yes, I consider for me.
00:32:50
Speaker
Swamp Thing is a Grindhouse movie because that's where I saw that. And I did see it back in 1982, one day after work. And I wanted to see it because I knew the character from DC Comics, you know, and I, you know, and hey, I wanted to see what kind of movie that they can make out of this.
Swamp Thing's Adaptations
00:33:10
Speaker
And it had a good cast. It had Adrian Barbeau. No one needs to be said. Ray Wise, who wasn't a big star. Right. I was surprised when I saw Ray Wise pop up in this. I'm like, holy shit.
00:33:28
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I mean, he's not in the movie for a longer, but he's in there for like, I think like he's in it for like the first 10, 15 minutes. And then he gets transformed into the swamp thing who was then played by Dick Durock, who actually went on to play the character, not only in the sequel, but in the TV show. Right on USA, which like three seasons or something less a long time.
00:33:54
Speaker
Yeah. People are surprised when I tell them, yeah, there was a Swamp Thing TV series and it actually did last. In fact, there was also a Swamp Thing animated series, which is how I first discovered the character, which was only five episodes, but it had one of the greatest theme songs. Have you seen this, the theme song for it? It was a parody of Wild Thing. Wild Thing, yeah.
00:34:22
Speaker
So instead of like Wild Thing, you're like Swamp Thing. You are amazing. Yeah. So Swamp Thing has had a pretty robust life. Surprisingly. Yeah. Yeah. As a matter of fact, Swamp Thing has had more incarnations than a lot of other more popular characters.
Swamp Thing in DC Comics
00:34:44
Speaker
You know, you know, he had these two movies.
00:34:47
Speaker
He said he said two movies to TV to live-action TV shows and an animated series like
00:34:55
Speaker
That's like Batman or Superman level exposure. Wonder Woman hasn't had that many. Green Lantern hasn't had that many. The Flash hasn't had that many. This is what I'm saying. The Swamp Thing just had a pretty robust life. And this movie, it wasn't a runaway blockbuster hit, but it was popular enough that it did spawn a sequel in 1989, The Return of Swamp Thing.
00:35:21
Speaker
which was from what I read about it, that's much more. They lean much more into the camp side of it. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's much more 1960s Batman other than this. Unlike this movie, which
00:35:35
Speaker
Like I said, I wanted to do this movie because it's October. And yeah, while Swamp Thing, you know, I kind of stretch a point. I kind of stretch it a little bit because in his comic book incarnation, Swamp Thing is firmly entrenched in the DC universe. He's met Batman. He's met Superman.
00:35:56
Speaker
He's met other worldly entities. As a matter of fact, he's a cosmic entity himself. Right, right. In fact, John Constantine first appeared in Swamp Thing.
00:36:10
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And it was because, and in fact, the very look of John Constantine was because Alan Moore asked, I can't remember the name of the artist at the time, but he asked the artist, what would you like to draw? And he says, well, I want to draw a character that looks like Sting, who was really popular at the time. So Alan Moore created John Constantine, and that's why his visual appearance is based on Sting.
00:36:30
Speaker
And in fact, OK, there's one thing I meant to ask you because you know about this kind of stuff more than I do. You're more of a concertee fan. Did they ever contact us thing and say, OK, well, listen, do you mind if we, you know, we made the guy look like you or something? Actually, I believe they did. I believe they did ask for permission to use his likeness. And in fact, I just looked it up now. There's this collection they released and which Sting wrote like an introduction to or something 30th anniversary. Yeah.
00:36:59
Speaker
Cool. Because I know that when they revamped Nick Fury and they turned him into a black guy, they wanted to base his appearance on Samuel L. Jackson and contact him and say, well, listen, do you mind we make the new Nick Fury look like you? He says, as long as when you put him in a movie, I get to play him. I don't care. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, as we know, yeah, he went on to play him in a movie because that was
00:37:27
Speaker
because Samuel L. Jackson is actually a huge comic book fan in real life. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like a lot of people don't realize a lot of these actors, you know, they're big comic book fans. Nicholas Cage, his actual last name, for those of you who don't know, is Coppola because he's the nephew of Francis Ford Coppola. But he changed it to Cage because Lou Cage was his favorite comic book character, you know, growing up.
00:37:56
Speaker
Yeah. Shaquille O'Neal, you know, he had the Superman tattoo. That's why he was in that, the God awful steel movie. He was a huge Superman fan. Yeah. Jerry Seinfeld too. He had, that's why he had all those Superman references in Seinfeld because he was a huge Superman fan. Yeah. If you notice in the apartment he has, he has this, uh, statue, you know, there's a super statue that's on the bookcase and it's like,
00:38:20
Speaker
Every time they do a shot that's done in his place, he's usually standing where you can see the Superman statue over his shoulder, if you know. And he does that on purpose. Yeah, yeah. So with Sting, apparently he was reportedly aware of Constantine, but he didn't really contact DC or anything. DC didn't contact him, so he was just content to leave it well enough alone. And there are some rumors that say that he
00:38:48
Speaker
he was asked to be in Constantine or that he wasn't asked or that he was asked and he refused. But either way, you know, he wrote for the 30th anniversary collection of Hellblazer, he wrote the introduction for it.
00:39:03
Speaker
Oh, OK. And yes, one thing has has proven to be a pretty durable, long lasting character in the comic books. You know, he's got a sizable following. A lot of people have made this one. I was more man thing.
00:39:20
Speaker
damn myself over at Marvel. I was more of that character. But in this movie, I enjoy it because it's more of Wes Craven doing an updating of what I consider to be like a 1950s monster movie.
00:39:36
Speaker
Right, that's exactly what it, and even down to the poster, because you see the poster, it's this illustrated artwork of Swamp Thing carrying Adrienne Barbeau, and she's wearing the dress, and it's very much in that old classic monster movie vein.
00:39:53
Speaker
Right and when you're watching the movie he even does those white that they used to use back in the universal monster movies that reminded me of it when you go from one seat to another. Which is one of the things i did not really like about this movie. I understand why they did it but just like the white it just it felt like the different style of what it felt too cheesy for me.
00:40:20
Speaker
Oh, okay. Well, listen, that's understandable, but, but I.
00:40:25
Speaker
I liked it because, like I said, to me, it goes with the tone of this movie, which is less a superhero origin story and more like an updating of, you know, this is like the Creature from the Black Lagoon or, you know, yeah. Yeah. Movies of that type. And it's very much a 1950s monster movie where the scientist Alec Holland played by Ray Wise. He's he's in the South Carolina swamp.
00:40:52
Speaker
He's working on a bioengineering project with his sister who is also Right. She's also scientist. Yeah Base where he's being protected by what was being protected by a bunch of government agents come to me barbo play Alice cable is right Why because in the original comic book, I believe that cable is a man and
00:41:17
Speaker
Well, yeah, so she's actually an amalgamation of two characters. So they have in the she's heavily based on Abby Arkane, Abigail Arkane, who's in the comics. She's the niece of Anton Arkane. And she has there's another character in the comics named Matt Cable and.
00:41:36
Speaker
That, she ends up marrying him in the comics. So they kind of merged those... I think they merged those two together. They gave her the name... I'm not sure why they went with the name Alice instead of Abby, but for whatever reason they called her Alice Cable instead. And I think the intention for that was mostly because they didn't
Alice Cable and Alec Holland
00:41:53
Speaker
want to have her related to Arkane. They wanted him to be completely separated from her.
00:41:58
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then the movie, of course, we have Arkane, who is played with great relish by Louis Jordan, who is having the time of his life. Oh, he just eats all the scenery in place. Yeah. But you know what? He always has a good time playing a bad guy. I mean, he did this.
00:42:19
Speaker
there was a James Bond movie he played the bad guy and he was having just so much fun in that too because he's very he's very witty and European and and urbane and classy and even though he's in the middle of this god-awful swamp he's got this luxurious glorious mansion that yeah yeah
00:42:39
Speaker
Well, where did you go? Who builds a mansion like this in the middle of a swamp, you know? But yeah, so OK, so Alec Holland, he's working on this project. One of the things I like about Adrian Barbeau in this movie is that whenever she introduces the only time she introduces herself as Alice Cable is to Holland's sister.
00:43:03
Speaker
But when she introduces herself to her, whenever she introduces herself to men, she just says cable. And that's the point. Yeah, I kind of like, you know, I like that, you know, because it shows that she's, you know, she's a strong, self-sufficient woman. And, you know, like men usually men introduces themselves to each other with their last names. You know, like when I meet people, it's, oh, what's your name? Oh, Ferguson.
00:43:31
Speaker
Right. Right. Now, up until the up until like the third act, that's one of the things that really impressed me is that she's very, you know, take charge. She's very much. She's got a lot of agency in this movie. Yeah. But once they put her in the nightgown and she becomes a damsel in distress. Yeah. Yeah. That that all goes pretty much right out the window at that point. All right. I mean, listen, not that I'm complaining about Adrian Barbeau in a nightgown. She looked damn good.
00:44:00
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, but again it undercuts.
00:44:05
Speaker
her character as strong as it's been in the first two acts. Yeah, it's almost like it's a completely different character. Right, exactly. It just cuts the leg out from a, you know, the cable that we see in act one and act two, we've been trying to figure out a way to escape. Like, cause I was surprised like how much I was really enjoying, cause you know, it's, it's a low budget movie. It was only like 2.5 million, I think was the budget. And Wes Craven was proud of himself for turning it in on time and on budget.
00:44:34
Speaker
And he was also kind of pissed off because that wasn't the budget he was promised.
Wes Craven's Budget Constraints
00:44:40
Speaker
Oh, really? No, no, no. They actually cut the budget on this movie. But considering what he had to work with.
00:44:47
Speaker
You know, I think he did an excellent job on this movie. You know, yeah, it did pretty good. Like the the Swamp Thing effects, you know, they don't quite hold up as well over time. But for two point five million budget, they they did a pretty decent job on him. And you had Dick Durock because one of the things in the in the Swamp Thing comics, one of the things that it makes it hard for me to read them because, you know, a lot of great people have worked on them. Alan Moore did a character defining run on the guy in beginning in 1984, which is after this movie.
00:45:17
Speaker
which influenced the new DC Universe series. And that also introduced, like we said, John Constantine and established the supernatural connections with Phantom Stranger and all that kind of stuff. Grant Morrison and Mark Miller did a run, Scott Snyder did, Rick Veitch. Lots of really amazing writers have tackled this character in the comics.
00:45:44
Speaker
One of the things that's always been tough for me to get into is in the comics, he speaks in almost like a staccato fashion where there's lots of pauses in his dialogue, and it makes it kind of difficult to read.
00:45:56
Speaker
Okay. When Dick Durock first speaks a swamp thing, like at first he is a little stilted in his dialogue because like he's kind of replicating that. But after that, he speaks normally, which I kind of appreciate it because it was, I know it's different from the comics, but it worked for the movie because that style of in the comics, you know, it just, it doesn't, I don't think it would have translated well in film.
00:46:18
Speaker
I think that because as the movie goes, and you know what, a lot of people, okay, Dick Durock, his portrayal of Swamp Thing, you gotta watch it because it's a really a nice little thing that he does here in this movie. And he does a lot of character things in here that's nice because like you said, when he starts out speaking as Swamp Thing, he's talking in this very whole thing, stilted language. But the longer the movie goes on, the better he gets at talking as if,
00:46:45
Speaker
He's relearning how to speak. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So by the end of the movie, yeah, he's talking like a regular person now, but yeah, he starts off and even his body language is like when we first see him, he's moving very stiffly and, you know, very awkwardly. But by the end of the movie, he's actually walking kind of gracefully through, you know, when he walked through the swamp and we have that idea, you know, he's going away. He's actually kind of graceful.
00:47:15
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. As if he's become comfortable in this new body that he's got now. That's what I picked up on, too. He's relearning what it's like to have a body, to be able to speak and all that, which is something that I wish, at least the speaking thing, they would have adapted into the comics because it is tough to read, man. Oh, okay.
00:47:37
Speaker
Well, like I said, I've never, I mean like I've read the earlier when it was drawn by Bernie Wrightson. But that's like way back in, I think it was like the late 70s. That's when the character debuted. You know the story about, because you mentioned Man-Thing, you're a bigger fan of Man-Thing. So do you know the story between Swamp Thing and Man-Thing, their connection?
Swamp Thing and Man-Thing
00:48:00
Speaker
No, I didn't have no idea it was a connection.
00:48:02
Speaker
OK, so because, you know, DC came out with Swamp Thing. Marvel came out with man thing around the same time. Ryan, you know me and who's it who created see if I was who created man thing? I think it was more of Wolfman. It was either Marvel. I'm thinking Marvel or Steve Gerber because he originally appeared in Harry. Jerry Conway, Jerry Conway. Oh, Jerry Gerber did the character defining role on the on the guy. Oh, OK.
00:48:29
Speaker
It was Roy Thomas and it was Jerry Conway. They were both roommates at the time. Apparently, I think it was Roy Thomas and Len Wien and Jerry Conway. They were roommates at the time when they were reading it. They were both working on it at the same time. They didn't realize they were both doing the exact same thing. It's just like this really weird cosmic coincidence.
00:48:59
Speaker
Yeah, well, I've always kind of, like, triggered me because, yeah, you're right. Both characters debuted, like,
00:49:06
Speaker
I think within a year of each other. But I always I always chalked it up as being like one of those weird because sometimes there are coincidence. Coincidence is like, what was it? The Doom Patrol and the X-Men. They kind of like, yeah, they kind of like debuted at around the same time. And there's always been this thing that, oh, well, was one, you know, influence, you know, was one copying off of the other. But they said, well, when you look at the dates that they were published,
00:49:34
Speaker
Yeah. You know, and given the lead time to create, you know, write and draw a whole comic book, they say, no, there could have been no way that, you know, it could have been some copying from them. So, yeah. But, um, what was I talking about? Oh, I was talking about Dick Durock. Yeah. His performance
00:49:50
Speaker
You know, that's what I want to say. Everybody's before. OK, the thing about this movie that I appreciate and I always appreciate it when actors take what they're doing seriously. And when returning like this, it would have been very easy for people to like wink at the camera and, you know, nudge, nudge and say, well, isn't this silly? But, you know, we're doing this. No, everybody in this movie, you know, they take this stuff seriously. Yeah, you know.
00:50:17
Speaker
You know, they're not given like Shakespeare performances here, but they are given honest, true performances. You know, they're committing to it. Yeah. Yeah. They have a scene where Adrian Balbo, she's in the she's in the swamp, but it's one thing after he's had his arm cut off while he's trying to defend her from the bad guys. And they really have a really touching moment. That's when she realizes this is the scientist because, yeah, but now she's just been thinking this has just been some creature that's been hanging out, you know, like
00:50:47
Speaker
You know, but now she realized that there's him and they have a really touching moment together where, you know, they bond and, you know, they're dealing, you know, they're trying to deal with this crazy situation that they're finding themselves into. And like I said, it's not Shakespeare, but it's a scene that shows me that Craven, who wrote the movie,
00:51:09
Speaker
took it seriously and he insisted that his actors take it seriously as well. Yeah, yeah. And in fact, they did have Abby Arkane in the second movie. I think it was played by Heather Locklear. Ah, you got me. I hate. It's been so long since I've seen her trying to swap back. I don't call it that. It was the Conan, the destroyer of the franchise. Heather Locklear.
00:51:36
Speaker
Although I do believe that YouTube as well, like the original Swamp Thing, which is where, you know, I saw. So, folks, if you want to watch this movie, don't worry, you don't have to pay any rent. It's on YouTube. And as now, you tell me because I paid for the rental fee. Oh, man, you should have told me. Yeah, no, but I put the link up on the site. Remember?
00:52:01
Speaker
Oh, that must have been after I rented it. I didn't see that. You know, the Facebook page, yeah, yeah. Now I put it up on the, you know, the Facebook group. See, I just thought that was a trailer. I didn't realize that was the whole movie. Yeah, that's the whole, yeah, they got the whole movie. You know what, I gotta click on, I gotta click on the links more often. Now, and also...
Controversial Scene in Swamp Thing
00:52:21
Speaker
as an added bonus, this is the 93-minute international version, not the US version. Why do I stress this is the international version? Because in the international version, and yes, folks, this is me being a pervy old man, the international version has a scene with Adrian Barbeau bathing nude in the lake while the swamp thing is watching her.
00:52:48
Speaker
Oh, OK. And that's all. In fact, there's a there was a bit of controversy over that scene, which is. Yeah, because it was taken out of the American version. But apparently there was some VHS tapes that still had it in there and parents were renting it for their kids. I remember. Yeah. So in 2000, MGM released it on DVD.
00:53:11
Speaker
And the advertisers being the PG version, but accidentally made it the 93 minute version, which had the bathing scene.
00:53:24
Speaker
A woman in Dallas rented it from Blockbuster Video for her kids, and then she got pissed off when she saw there was nudity in it. Right, right. Because I do remember hearing way back then that it was some women that had rented the movie from Blockbuster, and I thought it was the VHS tape that they rented from Blockbuster and showed it to their kids. And yeah, the American version, it's only 90 minutes.
00:53:50
Speaker
The international version is 93 minutes and those extra minutes are indeed the infamous scene with Adrian Barbeau bathing nude in, you know, the lake. So for all you purview men like me.
00:54:06
Speaker
The 93 minute version is on YouTube. And I would not be surprised if shortly after this episode drops, that version mysteriously disappears. Either that or its view numbers are going to skyrocket. Oh, yeah. Well, either one of the other. As a matter of fact, there's also some nudity that takes place because there's a party in Arkane's castle before he
00:54:35
Speaker
See the formula to his henchmen? Bruno. Right, and there's some nudity that's in there too. Yeah, the international version is kind of risqué for hooks. Now, Adrienne Barbeau, she's been in some other DC things. In fact, you know what major DC production she was in after this movie? Which one?
00:54:57
Speaker
She was in Batman the Animated Series. Oh, that's right, she played Catwoman. Exactly, yeah, she did the voice of Catwoman. And she also had a part in the Swamp Thing, the new series on DC Universe, which I haven't gotten to her episode yet, but she's got a part in that. Really, good for her. That's one of the things I like about DC is that they acknowledge these past actors and they bring them on to do these different cameos and walk-on roles and that kind of stuff.
00:55:27
Speaker
I cannot wait for this infinite crisis thing that's going to have to see Brandon and Ralph playing Superman.
00:55:36
Speaker
Oh, yeah. He's one of my favorite Superman. And I think you, too. Like, we both agree. Like, even though that movie had problems, he was not one of them. He was not the problem. Matter of fact, we should sometime down the road, we should do Superman Returns. Oh, definitely. Yeah. I'll have a lot of good things to say about that. That guy, he got such a bad rap for something that was not his fault.
00:55:59
Speaker
Yeah. You know what? And you see him. He's playing Kingdom Come Superman in Infinite Crisis. Oh, yes. Oh, God. Oh, my God. I saw those images and I was like, you know what? Can we just like I love Tyler Hoechlin in Supergirl? He's going to be playing Superman again in this series. But but seeing those images, I'm like, you know, can we get a do over movie with him as Superman again?
00:56:19
Speaker
Yeah, seriously, man. I mean, you know, man, why are we running, you know, like a movie studio or something like that?
Brandon Routh as Superman
00:56:26
Speaker
Because see, I would agree you let a movie with, you know, Tyler, whatever his name is. In fact, you know what someone said? Someone said on Reddit, they were like, you know what? Just give me a give me a kingdom come series with Brandon, Ralph playing Superman. I'm like, you know what? Get Michael Keaton in there to play Batman. I would pay top dollar for that show. Oh, man. I give blood.
00:56:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, serious for a kingdom come series or just kingdom come movie. Yeah. Oh, guys. Oh, man. Oh, I got to stop. My blood pressure is going up.
00:57:02
Speaker
But speaking of Adrian Barbeau, her contributions, because a lot of people, they say, oh, well, Adrian Barbeau, but she was not only swamping, she was in The Fog, she was in Creepshow, she was in Escape from New York. Creepshow has a connection to DC as well, because it was
00:57:22
Speaker
Creepshow was a tribute to both the E.C. horror comics and also the D.C. horror comics, too. Right. That was the Stephen King thing. It was right. It was based on the Stephen King stories. But Adrian Barbeau, she was in the one where she played this really. She played the wife from hell and she was telling she managed to be both.
00:57:44
Speaker
Absolutely annoying and hilariously funny at the same time. And those movies both came out in the same year, too. They both came out in 1982. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She was she was kind of busy in movies there for a while. I mean, she started out on TV. You know, well, she was she was married to John Carpenter at that one point. And that's why she was in a lot of his movies. Right. That's why she was in Escape from New York. She was in The Fog.
00:58:13
Speaker
I think she had a minor part. She had a minor part in the thing as well. And really? Yeah, I think she was like a did a voice or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was it. She appeared just as a yeah. You just heard a voice, I think, over like the radio or something like that. Right. Right. It was something like that. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, she was she was really big in horror movies. She was in Argo, too, actually.
00:58:36
Speaker
really her filmography it's like endless oh yeah yeah i mean you know she's been in it she's you know a lot of people don't really know how much stuff she's been in but adrian barbeau for a while they're like back during like the 70s and 80s she was out of a ton of stuff and like you say she was the voice of catwoman on you know batman the animated series yeah and the thing she was the voice of the computer
00:59:01
Speaker
Oh, OK, cool. Yeah, she'd done tons of voice work. Like you've you've heard her voice people, basically. But yeah, Batman, the animated series that ran for three years and she was in Catwoman all three years. Really? That's right. 1992 to 1995. OK, for some reason, I always think it went for five years, but, you know, oh, no, you what?
00:59:22
Speaker
That was because it was split up into two parts, basically. There was Batman the Animated Series until 95, and then it became the new Batman Adventures. Ah, yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, you're right. I remember. Okay.
00:59:38
Speaker
And then that ran until, and then once that ended, then they went into Justice League. Wait a minute, so when did Batman Beyond come in? I want to say, I think it was after, I think it was before Justice League. Didn't it slide in like that period between Batman and Justice League? Yeah, yeah, it was in 1999. Yeah. 1999 to 2001.
01:00:00
Speaker
Okay. And so then Justice League came out I think right after that. You're right, okay. Yeah, Justice League began in 2001. One of the episodes of I think it was Justice League Unlimited, Justice League Unlimited, they tied up some of the loose ends from Batman Begins. Yeah, yeah, right. There was an episode that they did like the Future Justice League. Right, that and they also had
01:00:22
Speaker
Yeah, that really great episode with an older Terry McGinnis confronting Amanda Waller. And she tells him the story about when Batman confronted the Royal Flesh Gang, and it was Ace, who was a little girl in this version of the Royal Flesh Gang, who had like these reality warping powers or something that were killing her. And it was this really touching episode, like, oh,
01:00:48
Speaker
Guys, if you haven't seen it, go look it up on YouTube or on DC Universe, but it's an amazing episode where, like, Batman at his most human, like, talking to this girl, like, she's gonna die, and, like, she has to either stop the illusion or be killed to stop the illusion or something like that, and... Uh-huh.
01:01:07
Speaker
He goes in there and, you know, Amanda Waller tells him, you know, you're going to have to kill her. And he does it. He just sits with her on the swing and he talks to her. And it's it's like this amazingly touching episode, which is why for so many people.
01:01:24
Speaker
Kevin Conroy is Batman. Oh God. Yeah. And he was Batman in his animated version is so well written. I love the episode where he's got it, where it's the episode, you know, everybody has to sing a song that reveals their innermost self. It's got Satana in it.
01:01:46
Speaker
I'm trying to think. And he gets up there and I think he sings Am I Blue or something like that? And it turns out that Batman can really sing. He's got a good singing voice. Speaking of Conroy, he's going to be playing Batman in The Crisis. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're going all out with this one. I have no idea how they're going to fit in all these people into it. And I don't care. I'm going to sit and watch it and just enjoy. And like you were saying earlier,
01:02:15
Speaker
I'm glad that they are acknowledging and honoring the people that went before, like when they got John Wesley's ship to play the Flash.
John Wesley Shipp as The Flash
01:02:24
Speaker
Oh, that was so good. Oh, that was so good. I mean, come on. I mean, yeah. And that was such a good fakeout, too, because, you know, they made it seem like Jay Garrick was the villain in that in that season. And then you find out at the end. No, you just took Jay Garrick's name. Yeah. Yeah.
01:02:42
Speaker
I mean, that was and then they even had episode when he put it back in the original costume. He wore. Yeah. Yeah. The Elseworlds crossover from last year. I really appreciate stuff like that because, see, they don't have to do it. But that says to me that they got respect for the material. Right. That's something I wish Marvel would do more of because they've had other people play like Doctor Strange and Captain America. And it would be nice just like give like those movies weren't
01:03:08
Speaker
were terrible, basically, but it'd still be nice to have like some sort of nod to them. Oh, no, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, when we, you know, when it's my turnaround next to pick the movie, I fully intend to pick. I'll tell you right now, I don't want to pick. I'm going to pick the Doctor Strange TV movie. Oh, OK.
01:03:29
Speaker
That'll be interesting to watch. So spoiler alert, we're gonna be watching Doctor Strange two episodes from now. All right, now, you know what? You know who my favorite character in the Swamp Thing movie is?
Jude in Swamp Thing
01:03:42
Speaker
Who would do your favorite character in the Swamp Thing movie? Take a guess. I want you to try and guess. Bruno.
01:03:49
Speaker
No, my favorite character is Jude. Oh, the little black kid. That kid is the most practical motherfucker in any horror movie ever. This little black kid who was apparently running this gas station out of the middle of the swamp by himself. We never see any parents. He never mentions any parents. Apparently, Jude is just running this truck into the spot by himself.
01:04:15
Speaker
Yeah, he's doing all this by himself And he's navigating the swamps and shit and he is the most practical person in this movie Nothing fazes this kid. No, and he's just like, you know, this is he's like I he's like I got no time for this white nonsense. Yeah Everything is tried. Yeah. Yeah when he's brought back to life by the swamp bank and
01:04:40
Speaker
He just looks up at him and says, oh, your cable's a friend, right? I love this. A giant swamp monster is standing in front of you. He just brought you back to life. He's like, oh yeah, you're your cable's friend. Yeah, yeah.
01:04:54
Speaker
That's one thing he just, and it's a nice focus. You know, after a while he starts smiling himself. Cause he's saying this kid is so cool. So nothing, nothing phases you. I love that kid. He's the best part of the movie. He's late. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, cable comes in, you know, she walks in and he's just talking to her like, yeah, you know, like I see white women walking here every day, you know,
01:05:23
Speaker
I mean, like, out of nowhere. And, you know, like, he gets caught up in this story helping her. And, yeah, because of this kid's confidence, the kid that plays a part, what's his name? Because we really... Reggie Bats. In the show, huh? Reggie Bats. Yeah, Reggie Bats. This kid does... You know, if you all guys watch this movie, and I hope that you certainly do, look out for this kid, because, yeah,
01:05:51
Speaker
his confidence and his self-assuredness is, you know, while he's navigating through this story is really something to see because after a while you start to forget that he's a kid. Yeah. And he's only been in this, like it's just this. This is the only movie he's ever been in. Really? Yeah.
01:06:12
Speaker
Wow. Well, maybe he just didn't want to, you know, he didn't want to do any acting because. I guess so. Yeah. Yeah. This kid could have had a future. I love that he's wearing these big ass glasses the whole time too.
01:06:26
Speaker
Oh, man. Listen, that took me back because when I was that age, I wore a big ass pair of glasses like that, too. Oh, my God. This kid was this kid was you back in the day. Well, yeah. Well, now you know what? I wasn't that confident. And so for sure this year, I definitely would have been running a gas station out in the middle of swamp by myself.
01:06:48
Speaker
But he's the type of character that as the movie goes on, you want to know more about him. Yeah. Yeah. You say, well, where is this family? Where is it? And you know what? I imagine that his parents are like, what's that kid who's in the Simpsons and his parents look exactly like him.
01:07:09
Speaker
You know, Milhouse. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I imagine that Jude has a mother and father that look exactly like each other. And they look like him. That's who I imagine his parents looking like. Well, also, when Arkane's men attacked the gas station, and he's like, oh, yeah, I got a shotgun in here.
01:07:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You know what? Yeah. You know, like our mercenaries, they attack his gas station like every day. Yeah. Yeah. No problem. I said, well, you know what? I guess maybe to live that type of life, that's how you have to be.
01:07:41
Speaker
I guess so. Yeah. But yeah, but yeah. Okay. I'll go with you on that. Yeah. He makes the movie because he's a character that you don't expect. And that's the thing about this movie too. And that it gives us characters that we don't expect. And then all like both the henchmen ferret families, a guy we're introduced to him and they capture
01:08:05
Speaker
one of the government agents that are protecting the complex that Holland is working in, and then capture him, and third, pulls a point to the snake out of his pocket. Why is this guy walking around with, and even the other instrument, like brutal looks at him like, dude, really?
01:08:25
Speaker
Yeah. What are you doing? And he's played by David Hess, who was in Last House on the Left. Oh, you know what? He do look kind of familiar. You OK? Yeah, he did look familiar to me. It's one of those things where I was watching, and I said, yeah, I've seen this guy before in some other movie. Yeah, yeah. I don't know exactly where. Because he's got that kind of really goofy, crazy grin.
01:08:44
Speaker
Right. Like the very distinctive hair. You know, very distinctive. Exactly. It's like one of those things again. I know this guy, but I but I was too busy enjoying his performance because he was like off the wall from, you know, beginning to end in this thing. And I love to see where he thinks he's drowned.
01:09:03
Speaker
because they take cable out, they found her after she's hidden one of the notebooks because that's the MacGuffin that's in this movie in that they have Hollins notebooks. Right. Then they have they've got all six of them, but they need there's a seventh one that like unlocks the final secret to his formula. And that's the one that cable has hidden in the ruins of the lab, but they don't know that. So they take her out to drown her.
01:09:32
Speaker
And Ferry is holding her head down. He thinks he's drowned. And, of course, who pops up but Swamp Thing?
01:09:37
Speaker
Right. And proceeds to overturn the boat and kick plenty of ass in the process. Mm-hmm. They really downplay what Swamp Thing can do in this movie, though, compared to in the comics. Because in the comics, you know, he's got all these... He's got, like, full control over, like, the plants and the vegetation and everything. In this, basically, he's just... He's basically just super strong and he can heal people. And that's pretty much all he does. Yeah, because there's a part where Cable is shot.
01:10:06
Speaker
And he takes like a bunch of moss from his chest and places it on, you know, the gunshot wound and he heals the gunshot wound. And yeah, like I mentioned earlier, there's a part where Jude gets killed and he brings, you know, Judas shot and he brings it back to life and his arm gets cut off and he regrows the arm.
01:10:27
Speaker
Yeah. And they say like, because when they're in the Arkane's dungeon, she's like, you know, it's the sunlight, this, you know, that's what gives you like kind of like Superman. So he's like trying to reach out to gather enough solar energy as he can to replenish himself. Yeah. And when he reaches up, the one good head he has and gets the sunlight, then we see it's like a little twig start growing out of, you know, the stump and then gradually it regrows into another arm. Yeah. So they kind of like,
01:10:57
Speaker
You know, they said, I mean, basically, he's a super plant. I mean, but yeah. Yeah. But, you know, given the budget that they have, you know, they couldn't go into all those other arcane abilities that he has, you know, from the comic book, because because I think that he can even time travel or something like that was.
01:11:16
Speaker
Well, I can't remember. I think so, yeah. You know the character from the comics. You're watching him fight these guys, and he's just, you know, slugging it out with him. He's not, like, using vines or anything to knock over their boats or anything like that. Right, yeah, yeah. Basically,
01:11:33
Speaker
and he's got that healing thing, you know, working for him. Again, you know, they had a limited budget, I mean, to work with, and most of it, but which is why, I guess, that they shot most of this stuff outside. They took advantage of the fact that it was in the swamp. Because that's when 90% of this movie takes place. It takes place in the swamp. You got that little bit that's in Holland's lab, which gets burned down, and then you have those scenes
01:11:59
Speaker
and um, in Arkane's Mansion, which was the sound stage I imagined, you know, they went back to Hollywood to film the sound stage, but other than that, 90% of this, most of this movie is actually filmed in the swamp, actually. That dinner party, it's so weird because at the beginning of the movie, you know, you find out that
01:12:20
Speaker
Arkane is like this terrorist paramilitary leader, but he's got this mansion, right? And nobody knows where he is, but he's got this mansion there and he brings all these like wealthy guests over for a dinner party. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. Supposedly because the guy that's at the beginning, he says, yeah, well, you know, first of all, everybody thinks that he's dead.
01:12:45
Speaker
He's supposed to be dead. And then this other guy said, well, no, he's not dead. And then as we find out, I don't want to spoil it for anybody wants to see it, but then we find out that the guy who says that he was dead, we find out that there's a good reason why he wanted people to think that arcane was dead. So, but yeah, but he has the party because he has the formula
01:13:07
Speaker
You know, and he brings all of these rich assholes to this mansion. Again, I'm saying he's got like this 18th century mansion that's in the middle of the swamp. Did anyone try to look for him in his big ass mansion? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, this guy's not like Blofeld. He's not like trying to hide out in a remote map.
01:13:29
Speaker
fortress or someplace like that. You know, he's in the middle of a swamp where I, you know, I imagine it would be fairly easy to find him. Yeah. You know, that's so funny because, you know, you were mentioning how he was in, uh, he was in a bond movie. He was in octopussy and he's basically a bond villain in this
Genre Mix in Swamp Thing
01:13:46
Speaker
movie. You know, you got something going up against, it's like a bond villain wired into the wrong movie set. Yeah. Exactly. Oh, you know, something, that's a very good point you make. And you're absolutely right. Yeah. He's, he's,
01:13:59
Speaker
He's playing a James Bond villain that wandered into a monster movie. Yeah. Because he is not the typical mad sign. I mean, like, he dresses her up in a gown. That's a total James Bond movie cliche. Yeah. Because in any other movie, what would happen was that Alec Hollywood, you know, died, burned up. And we would spend the rest of the movie, we would see Cable trying to get out of the swamp.
01:14:26
Speaker
You know, she has a notebooks. She's trying to get out of the swamp and the mercenaries they're chasing her. Yeah. Yeah. Or you'd have James Bond come in to swoop in and help her out. Well, because they talk about like her. She needs to get the notebook to. That's what I'm saying. It's like part. It's like a mix of like spy movie with monster movie.
01:14:47
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Because she's a government, I think she's a government scientist. She's trying to get the notebook back to DC. And like, you're just waiting for, you think you're gonna have someone like, you know, Bond or,
01:15:01
Speaker
Tom Cruise or someone swoop in to come in and retrieve the notebook, but instead you get something Well, I don't know she's a scientist because they refer to her as being an agent They never say what she's an agent for because the room she's replacing the other guy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's a government
01:15:17
Speaker
It's the guy that's leaving out of there and they're saying, you know, well, where's he going? You know, she says, okay, where's he going? They said, listen, he's had enough. They said, listen, he lasted longer than most other people did. Going back to what you were saying earlier, because she has a scene where she kicks a couple of guys' asses and she takes a gun and she's like blazing away and she runs them away.
01:15:36
Speaker
And she runs them away from the lab. So she's like some kind of government agent. They never say what agency she's working for. Presumably, it's like the FBI or the CIA, they send out somebody. Which kind of makes the third act change all the more disappointing because you've seen throughout the whole movie that she can hold her own. She can kick some ass herself. And then at the end, she just becomes a damsel in distress.
01:16:02
Speaker
Yeah, this is what I'm saying. I mean, there's a guy that tackles her and throws her to the ground and she kicks him in the nuts and gets up and kicks him in the nuts again. And she starts running, you know, and then she runs into some other guys and she beats them up and she grabs the machine gun and she. And they're falling in the swamp and she's standing there like, yeah, come get some, you know. And then, like you said, in the third act, OK, once, once Erica stick her in that beautiful nightgown,
01:16:32
Speaker
You know, yeah, she, I mean, it's like she's content to be your typical helpless female now, which does the job with the character that we were promised early on in the movie. It would have been more interesting to, like I said, the cable we saw earlier would have been figuring out how to escape. You know, she does talk Swamp Thing through it, to her credit, but she could have done, they could have done a lot more with that sequence there.
01:16:58
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. No doubt. But talking about Arkane and what a bastard he is.
Formula Betrayal Scene
01:17:06
Speaker
During that dinner party, he's talking about the formula and how they've cracked the code, and he tests it.
01:17:15
Speaker
by slipping it in Bruno's drink. Yeah, the guy who's been the most loyal to him the whole thing. And it's cracking because Bruno is sitting up there every time, okay, he says something. He's the first one to pour it in. He's nudging other people, applaud, applaud, applaud, applaud, applaud. And Arkane says, yeah, and you know, Bruno, you've been such a loyal,
01:17:36
Speaker
God of me and I appreciate if you didn't say yeah. Well, okay boss. Who are you gonna test this sword? Really
01:17:52
Speaker
And then we find out because Bruno falls up under the table and when he comes out, he's turned into this pig man. Yeah, very short, too. And Arkane is really pissed off because he goes to Swamp Thing and he says, what happened? Why didn't it work? He said he was supposed to be turned into this because apparently Arkane believes that this formula is going to turn you into some kind of superior being.
01:18:16
Speaker
Right. As Swamp Thing tells him, yeah, but you don't get it. He said the formula only makes you more what you already are. Yeah, amplifies your own qualities. He said, so if you're an asshole.
01:18:29
Speaker
is going to make it more, which is what it does to Arkane. Yeah. And so they say, like, you know, Bruno, because he's timid, you know, he's not got a lot of confidence. He's always, like, subservient. And that's why he became, like, this short guy. Right. That's why I became this little guy. I said, because Arkane says, oh, OK, yeah, well, he was weak and stupid inside. So, you know. So then Arkane, because
01:18:58
Speaker
He's got this ego that makes him think he's a superior person. He said, well, I don't have to work. And if I take it, I'm going to turn it to a God. Mm hmm. Needless to say, he takes a formula and no, he does not turn it to a guy. No, he's like this, you know, this like bore like thing or whatever. Yeah. But he turns into this. He turns it. But to give him his credit, apparently he's still got his intelligence because the first thing he does is rip a big ass sword off the wall. It goes right. Yeah. Yeah.
01:19:28
Speaker
And then Bruno gets back at him for turning him into this, because then he helps Swamp Thing and Alice escape then. Yeah. But it cracks me up the way he just runs and rips the sword off the way. And he's running down the stairs. And I say, yeah, you know something? There's nothing wrong with his brains, though. He said, you know what? I'm going to kill me that plant, man.
Swamp Thing's Noble Choice
01:19:53
Speaker
Oh, that's something they do because all three of them, it doesn't affect their mind at all. Bruno is still Bruno. Alec is still Alec. Arcane is still arcane. Their mental capacities are still all there. It's not like a Hulk situation. Right. Yeah, they still have their intelligence, which, of course, in a monster movie,
01:20:20
Speaker
That's what makes the situation even more poignant because because Alec Holland, he remembers who he once was. And, you know, he realizes he can never be that, which is why I don't understand this movie.
01:20:36
Speaker
You know, this is one of these movies where you say, well, you know what cable, she's a government agent. Why does he just take him back to Washington and say, listen, she, she does offer, she does offer fear. You know, and you know, he says, Oh no, I gotta go hang out in this swamp now for the rest of my life. Okay. If he still got his intelligence, why don't he just say, okay, well I'll go back with you. And I went to the, made a more interesting sequel to me.
01:21:03
Speaker
to have him back in Washington because even if he can't work with his hands, he can still, he still got his mind apparently. So you know what, I think, I think the reason for that, um, and they don't ever mention it, this in the movie, but I think the subtext is there because he saw what Holland, what, uh, not Holland, what arcane tried to do with his formula when he had him. So I think he's worried like, you know, if I go to the government, what will they do then with this?
01:21:29
Speaker
with this information. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know. It's 1982. So this is we got the Reagan years here. So he's not really who wasn't exactly against, you know, human rights abuses. Right. But you always got these self sacrifices, scientists that, you know, that know I cannot have my work corrupted by the government. I must be a swamp thing forever.
01:21:58
Speaker
I mean, it does say, though, like he doesn't like he does say, you know, I will return one day. You're like, I, you know, he's like, I because she says, you know, let's rebuild your work. You can cure yourself. And he said, and he says, like, I'm going to he's like, but he's like, I'm going to go now. He's like, but I will return. And so I said, well, and she says, when will you be back? He said, as soon as the grosses of this movie determined if I'll be back
Dick Durock as Swamp Thing
01:22:24
Speaker
or not.
01:22:24
Speaker
And then he did come back, but Adrian Barbeau did not. No, no, no. By then, she had moved on to other things. Yeah. But Dick Durock, he played Swamp Thing in this movie, and then he did it in the sequel and in the USA TV show. Yeah. And don't quote me on this. I'd have to look it up. But I believe that he even made
01:22:52
Speaker
personal live appearances as Swamp Thing. Yeah. Yeah. I remember reading something about that. Yeah. Like all over the country, he would go to like conventions and stuff like that. And, you know, I don't know, shopping mall openings and stuff like that. And, you know, he, he made a nice little career out of playing, you know,
01:23:13
Speaker
He did pretty good for himself, I would say, playing what most people would consider to be a B character in the pantheon of superheroes. He made himself a nice little career, you know, playing Swamp Thing. Yeah, it was the TV show. Like, they used the same suit from the Return of the Swamp Thing movie. They filmed in a Universal studio down in Florida.
01:23:37
Speaker
Um, doesn't say I'm here. Okay.
Cultural Perception of TV Shows
01:23:41
Speaker
I see. I seem to remember something reading and hearing something about there was a big, because they had like a swamp thing. Uh, stunt show at universal studios down there at one time, I believe it's gotten a lot of mixed reception, but, um, but Dick Durock said that it got, it was really popular in Europe, like, especially like in the Netherlands.
01:24:03
Speaker
Really yeah, yeah, you know that's kind of weird like how some of these things will catch on in other places like you know for example um Cowboy bebop right the anime series like here in America It's really popular everyone know it's like everyone everyone who's seen it that they say it's their favorite anime right right In Japan like almost nobody knows about it
01:24:26
Speaker
You gotta be kidding me. No, I'm serious. Like every time I tell people about, like I teach a class on it and like when I introduced it, like I asked my students, do you guys know this show? No one's ever heard of it. No one's ever heard of it. Even like my adult students who are the same age as me, like nobody knows it at all. Really? Now that's fascinating.
01:24:44
Speaker
But like over here, yeah, like you said, if anybody you ask me about my cowboy, oh, man, they'll go on. Oh, yeah, kind of the greatest anime they ever made, you know. And and listen, it's in my top five. Mm hmm. Yeah. You know, sometimes these things will catch on overseas like, you know, David Hasselhoff being like a national idol in Germany for his singing of everything. Yeah. I mean, they are. They even got a statue to him over there.
01:25:15
Speaker
You know, like Michael Jackson, Michael Jackson is 100 foot tall. Michael Jackson statue someplace in Budapest, I believe. Yeah. Jesus. You know, people pray to the thing. Yeah. David Hasselhoff. I mean, what we call that show that he did is still a reruns over here. Nightrider or Baywatch. One of the two. Yeah. Baywatch. Yeah. Baywatch. They said Baywatch is like Baywatch is still like
01:25:41
Speaker
I mean, one of the top 10 shows in German, even after all this time. Yeah, it's amazing. It's so weird how those things will catch on in other places. David Hasselhoff did all of these albums in German that's never been released over here, but he released them over there. And people said, well, where does he get his money from? Well, apparently, he's getting it from Germany. All right.
01:26:07
Speaker
Now, this movie actually inspired me to go on and start watching the new TV series, or I say new because it was canceled after 10 episodes because of like they didn't get the tax write-offs they were supposed to with it, so they canceled the show. And know something? That is one of the most fascinating stories I've heard in recent years because
01:26:30
Speaker
A lot of times people say, oh, why did they cancel this show? Why did they cancel that show? A lot of times the cancel show for the craziest reasons that you never heard of. There was a show. There was a show with Kathy Bates a few years back. It was a David E. Kelly show where she played a lawyer and and I'll look up the name of it. But it was a very popular show. Everybody liked it. The ratings were great.
01:26:56
Speaker
but it got canceled. You know why it got canceled? Because NBC said, well, it's not pulling in the right demographic. Yeah. Yeah. It was the older audience that was watching the show and they wanted a younger audience. Cause of course they want the audience with the, you know, that 18 to 34, you know, that's, you know, that's their sweet spot that they're looking for. And they remember with, with angel, do you remember why angel was canceled? It was for the dumbest reason of all. Why?
01:27:25
Speaker
because it was the top rated show on WB at the time. And they canceled it because the head of the network hated the show.
01:27:36
Speaker
Right, yeah, I heard that. That was the only reason why. It was the top-rated show. That and Buffy were the top-rated show. He got rid of Buffy first, and then Buffy went to UPN. And then he went after Angel next, even though it was like the top-rated show. And then that guy lost his job, I think like a year or two after that. And then they were trying to get Josh Whedon to come back and redo Angel after that.
01:27:56
Speaker
That is, you know, that's just utterly mind-blowing. I was quiet for a minute because I was looking at the name of that show. The name of that show was Harry's Law with Kathy Bates. Oh, I've heard of this. Yeah, and it was on NBC. And it only, it was on there for like one season. And it was like a top rated show. But like I said, it was canceled because NBC didn't like the demographic. They told the demographic it's too old.
01:28:23
Speaker
And, you know, yeah, I mean, shows get canceled for the craziest reason. And yes, one thing, because this show was getting a lot of critical notice. Everybody apparently loved it. They said, oh, it's a great show. It's a fantastic show. You need to watch it. And by, because they weren't getting the tax
01:28:42
Speaker
breaks that they thought that they was going to get. Apparently the state, you know, they reneged on their, you know, they made some kind of agreement. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess nobody bothered to get anything down on paper. I guess it was one of those things that they said, OK, well, you know, you bring the show here and, you know, we'll take care of you. Don't worry about it. And since they didn't get it, they said, well, it was too expensive for them to produce. I mean, they canceled it right after the first episode dropped. That's when they canceled it.
01:29:08
Speaker
I mean they didn't even give it a chance really and it's like first they first they cut it short because it was supposed to be 13 episodes and they cut it down to 10 episodes and and then like after the first episode dropped they're like actually you know what we're canceling it
01:29:25
Speaker
But, you know, part of the problem is also this DC Universe app, which was launched without really too much thought it seems because now they're because now Warner Brothers is starting their own streaming series service. So they're going to be, you know, probably going to be canning DC Universe completely because I guess, you know, they saw what Disney is doing with Disney Plus and they're like, oh, you know, we're going to do that. And they're going to call it HBO Max.
01:29:50
Speaker
Well, yeah, I mean, you know, that's what everybody is doing there. And really, you know what is is really kind of insane over here with all of these different streaming services because everybody their mother now. Oh, it's nuts. Like Disney, I can understand because they've got.
01:30:06
Speaker
they own like half of all media ever produced. Right, exactly. Like, I can understand that. And they're doing a lot of original content for it. Like, you know, they got the all the MCU TV shows, like, you know, Falcon and Winter Soldiers, WandaVision, Hawkeye, She-Hulk. And they got, you know, the Star Wars stuff, like the Mandalorian they're gonna do. And they got all these different things they're gonna be doing on there. So I totally get that. But like,
01:30:33
Speaker
CBS, like I'm not going to pay, you know, eight bucks a month just to watch a Star Trek show because I don't give a shit about watching every episode of Big Bang Theory. Yeah, exactly. Especially that one is still in reruns on three to four different networks. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, Big Bang Theory is being rerun over here on like three days. What? TBS channel nine.
01:30:59
Speaker
Okay. In other words, I can see all the big bang theory that I want already. I don't have to get another, but now, now after having said that, we all going to be subscribed and see me as all that. No, really. Let me just say why, because my wife, she saw because we got, okay. We watched a free week.
01:31:21
Speaker
And we watched Discovery, like the first season of Discovery. And we said, OK, it's OK, but you know what? We didn't want to spend the money for it. Then she started watching this show called The Good Wife. Oh, I heard that's a good show. Yeah. And apparently there's a sequel or spinoff series
01:31:42
Speaker
on CBS All Access. And now they've got Patrick Stewart coming back as John Luke Picard. Right, yeah. So now my wife, because she loved the next generation. Oh, OK. So she says, well, I'm going to get All Access. I'm going to pay for it. Which is OK with me, because I was going to get Disney Plus, and I was going to pay for that. Because like you said, they got all the MCU stuff that's coming on.
01:32:08
Speaker
And they got Star Wars, and for you people that don't know me, I'm a Star Wars fanatic.
New Star Wars Series Speculation
01:32:14
Speaker
If the Star Wars, I'm into it, and they've got the Mandalorian they're supposed to be doing, they're gonna have a Han Solo series. Really? I heard that today. I have not confirmed it. I've been trying to confirm it. You know, when I was talking about, when I was running down the shows, and I mentioned the Mandalorian, and I was thinking about, in my head, I was thinking, like, they should really do a Han Solo series for that. Yeah.
01:32:35
Speaker
Yeah. But I'm trying to because the story was on we got this covered. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK. You see, I got to tell you. So I'm trying to find another. So I wrote for them once, actually. I wrote I wrote an article for them one time. Really? It was about the D.C.U. and like how to like fix it going forward or something like that. Oh, OK. How do I write for that? I mean, it was just that one piece I wrote. Oh, OK.
01:33:02
Speaker
It was all right. They're just one of those rumor mill sites. Anyone can really do whatever they want for them. Right, exactly. Their reporting is sketchy, which is wild. But they had a story today saying that, yeah, as a matter of fact, the guy who played solo in the movie
01:33:21
Speaker
They say he's coming back and there's going to be a Han Solo series. Ewan McGregor himself has said there's going to be an Obi-Wan series. Oh, yeah. Now that I'm looking forward to, because they were talking about doing a movie with him, and then it seemed to fall through. I think it was after Solo's poor performance, then they said we're going to ask the Obi-Wan movie. But then they said they're going to be doing it for Disney+. So I'm like, which is a no-brainer.
01:33:48
Speaker
Now, now since you and McGregor himself said it, I said, OK, well, OK, well, that's no bullshit because you and McGregor wouldn't said it unless he is signed to do it. So yeah. So here my trust. But yeah, but they are planning, you know, other Star Wars series and
Star Trek Series and Opinions
01:34:05
Speaker
stuff like that. So, you know, so I said, OK, well, I'm going to get that. But in fact, Kevin Feige said he wants to do a Star Wars movie now. Oh, OK, cool. Listen, me, I am a confirmed
01:34:16
Speaker
Star Wars fanatic. I was there in the summer of 77 when Star Wars first hit theaters and my life was forever changed. That's all I got. Well, you know what? Because you said your your wife's a big Star Trek, our next generation fan. So maybe that because we're before we started recording, we were talking about how you guys were thinking about doing a podcast of your own. That's something you guys can do and do like a Star Wars Star Trek thing. Yeah.
01:34:46
Speaker
maybe like do a rewatch of the series or something. Cause that next generation was alone for a long time. Yeah. She liked just about all of them. I don't know if she liked Voyager, but I know. Did anybody like Voyager? You know what? I did not like Voyager during its original run. Okay. I watched it a few years later and there's some things, okay, let me put it this way. There's some things I appreciated what they tried to do with the show, but
01:35:13
Speaker
It was just like all over the place. It was just, you know, uh, I mean that guy that played, uh, what's his name? The first officer, the worst first officer to start fleet history. Uh, the chick that played the half human half Klingon, you know, engineer, she only had two moods pissed off and even more pissed off.
01:35:41
Speaker
And here's something that a lot of people think is, you know, you know, they think I'm crazy when I say it, but no, I did not like the black Vulcan. Oh, really? No, because you know why? Because, OK, it has been established in Star Trek lore that Vulcan has two sons, right? So we can assume that Vulcan is a desert world mostly, right? So.
01:36:09
Speaker
Basically, all Vulcan should have been black right from the start. Yeah, you know, but they weren't. That's a good point. I never thought about that. Yeah. You know, Vulcan's a desert planet. You know, it's been said that and, you know, most people live in the desert, especially if it's a planet with two suns. So therefore, you know, Vulcan should have been dark skin right from the start.
Cancelled Swamp Thing TV Show
01:36:33
Speaker
Yeah. But, you know, that's me. I don't know. You know, I never.
01:36:39
Speaker
And I guess I'm kind of wonky that way, but I know. But to me, it's kind of like pandering whenever they introduce black members of other races, like why? You know, why should they even be black Vulcans? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get your point there. So black Klingons, you know what? Really? OK, like the Klingons. Most Klingons are dry skinned. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're dry skinned.
01:37:04
Speaker
So it's getting back to Swamp Thing now to wrap up here. So the TV show is really good, the recent one. I'm really kind of pissed because I'm only like five episodes in so far and it's only got like five episodes left. But they had tie-ins to the larger DC Universe, like Blue Devils on the show. Character you like, Phantom Stranger appears.
01:37:28
Speaker
See, that's the only reason why I would watch it, because, yeah, you're not the only person that told me, because I wasn't going to watch it. I said, well, you know what? There's no reason for me to watch it, because it's only 10 episodes. But somebody told me, oh, a Phantom Stranger is in it. I said, really? I said, yeah. Now you've got my interest. Yeah. Jason Woodrew, the Floronic Man, Madame Xanadu is in it. Oh, OK. The Rot is in it. And if they had done,
01:37:54
Speaker
a second season. They were saying they wanted Matt Reeves to come in and play Constantine. Ooh, okay. That was the same guy that did the show. Yeah, he did the Constantine TV show, and then he was in the Arrowverse on Arrow and then Legends.
01:38:09
Speaker
Oh, he's good. I like him. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love him. He's so good. He's so good in that role. And he also did the voice of John Constantine twice. He did it and there was a Constantine animated movie and then there was the Justice League Dark and he did the voice both times. Oh, cool.
01:38:26
Speaker
So he's down to play the character pretty much whatever it looks like. Yeah, because I was really, I was really surprised on that when he showed up on that. I said, oh, wow, this is cool, because, because, wait, Constantine was on what? It was on NBC, I believe. Right. It was on NBC. Only one season. Only one season. Yeah.
01:38:44
Speaker
And you know, it's so weird, because it ended on this cliffhanger, and then he starts appearing in the Arrowverse stuff, and they never addressed the cliffhanger. So it's almost like that was like a completely different version of John Constantine in that show. Yeah, well, yeah. Well, I mean, you know what? I guess they figured they didn't want to bring that baggage. They just wanted to cross. I guess so, yeah. Now they got this streaming service. I mean, just give him back his own show and finish it up.
01:39:07
Speaker
Yeah. And, you know, like I was saying when we started this, I mean, you know, trying to keep up with all these different streaming services, because now, OK, so now that means that we're going to have Netflix, we're going to have Amazon Prime, we're going to have CBS All Access, and we're going to have Disney
Streaming Services Market Saturation
01:39:23
Speaker
Plus. And me and my wife have cut our pinky fingers and sworn in blood. That's it. We're not subscribing to anything else. Because seriously, where do they think people are going to get all this money? Yeah. I've got all these different things.
01:39:36
Speaker
oh you know i i i predict like within like the next five years probably less than that there's going to be an implosion and a lot of these sites are going these streaming services are going to die i think that's what i'm going to have myself because yeah because there's a lot of people and you know what they're going to do they're going to do something like i know like
01:39:53
Speaker
A lot of people, I know, when Thrones is on, they would just say the HBO just watched a new season. And during the last episode came on, then they cut the subscription. You know, yeah, exactly. I think you're going to see a lot of people doing that kind of stuff. And a lot of people are going to.
01:40:08
Speaker
The ones that were already there, like Netflix, Hulu, Prime, they're going to stay around. And then Disney Plus will stay around. HBO Max, maybe. But like CBS All Access, that's going to be on the, I predict that'll be the first one on the chopping block. Yeah. I think what they're going to do is that they're going to like start because I don't know if you were living here in the States when, you know, okay. It's like when Ma Bell first broke up and we had all of these different
01:40:38
Speaker
phone companies and stuff like that. And then after a time, what happened? Well, they started merging because, you know, there were too many of them. And, you know, I mean, first of all, it was too confusing and then they couldn't have enough customers to support them. So because I think it was who was it?
01:40:57
Speaker
Verizon merge with something else, and T-Mobile merge with somebody, or they just bought them out. So yeah, so I agree with you. I think in five years, it's going to be the same thing with all these different streaming stuff like that.
01:41:12
Speaker
disney's gonna last simply because like you said they own half of everything anyway and they can afford to take a loss and you know they can afford to take a loss really they can yeah and you know they've got they've got every single demographic you can even ever think about covered with all their content yeah yeah i mean you know let's face it you're gonna have people like me
01:41:34
Speaker
Who are into the Marvel stuff and into the Star Wars stuff? Well, we do, you know, we're signing upside down saying, you know, that's a no brainer. The people that have the kids and stuff like that, where they're going to start because Disney Plus is going to have the backlog of all of their old classic movies to write.
01:41:52
Speaker
And that's going to keep the kids happy. So no brainer. Yeah. But all the other ones, you know, you're going to see like a lot of places start cutting deals with Netflix or Hulu or going back to them. And because they're just not going to be able to keep up. Yeah. And you see already with Netflix because Netflix just shelled out a whole bunch of money to get the race to Seinfeld.
01:42:17
Speaker
Oh, really? I didn't read that. Yeah, I think they're paying somebody some outrageous on my $300 million. Because because they've lost the rights to friends now, so that doesn't surprise me at all.
01:42:29
Speaker
Yeah. So they got, you know, so they've got Seinfeld for like, like the next five years or something like that. Okay. Cause that's been on Hulu actually for the past few years. Yeah. Yeah. Well, when they, you know, when the contract is up at Hulu is going to go back to that because it was on Netflix for a while. A lot of these programs that are on Hulu and all these other things, you know, they were on Netflix at one time cause Netflix at one time was the only game in town.
01:42:57
Speaker
Right. Yeah. Yeah. But then when all these other people started saying, OK, we know what? We want to get our own spin, which is one thing that pissed me off about Discovery.
01:43:08
Speaker
was that, okay, you have the rest of the world, because all of the other Star Trek series are on Netflix, including the animated series on Netflix. Okay, now the rest of the world, they get to watch Discovery on Netflix. We're the only country that has the pay extra. Oh, the DC stuff too, like a lot of the DC content, like Titans and Doom Patrol, it's on Netflix and other countries. Yeah.
01:43:37
Speaker
Yeah, but not here. Yeah. We're the only suckers that's got to pay extra for it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So hopefully that'll change the next few years. All right. So, um, any last thoughts on Swamp Thing? Uh, only that if, uh, you're looking for a reasonably entertaining movie. Okay. This is what you got to do, folks. When you want Swamp Thing, you got to remember when it was made.
01:44:04
Speaker
This is 1982. There was no, you know, there was no CGI. There was, you know, practical effects. This is a man in a rubber suit, a very well-made rubber suit, I might add. In fact, now that you mentioned, I remembered watching, because I was watching with my girlfriend and I'm like, and I'm watching him move and I'm like, you can tell he's in a rubber suit. She's like, what? How do you know? I'm like, look at the way it creases and everything. I've watched so many movies now that I can't not notice these things.
01:44:31
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, you cannot know. But one thing that always bugs me about people now when they watch movies made back in the 19th and 70. Oh, oh, that's so cheesy. Oh, that's so corny.
Nostalgia of Swamp Thing Movie
01:44:42
Speaker
Oh, that's so crappy. How come they couldn't make it crappy? Because folks, they had to work with what they had to work with at the time. And considering what they had to work with, they turned out a hell of a lot of good movies. Okay, just go see the movie, folks.
01:44:58
Speaker
It's got nostalgia impact like I don't remember really watching this I think I saw it on TV once like a lifetime ago And I only remember bits and pieces like I only really I think I only really remember parts of the dungeon scene That's really all I remember from from this movie but so I was watching it. I was watching it with fresh eyes and I
01:45:20
Speaker
You know, going back and watching the trailer before I saw it, I was not expecting a lot. And yeah, it kind of falls apart in the third act, especially like the climactic battle between Swamp Thing and Arcane when Arcane transforms into a monster. It's like full on Godzilla, Power Rangers type stuff. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But again, and you know,
01:45:49
Speaker
Like I said, taking in the context of you and I, when we said when we were going to start this podcast, that we were going to look at some older movies, you know, going back and, you know, as revisiting movies that maybe people hadn't seen in a while, hadn't heard of. I think that if you call yourself a student of superhero cinema, as Perry and I
01:46:11
Speaker
you know, we, we consider ourselves to be students of such there. And if you consider yourself, you good people listening to this, then I think that you would want to just out of the curiosity factor, if nothing else, you know, you would want to see, you know, this early example of superhero cinema to see, you know, where it started at, because, you know,
01:46:34
Speaker
As Perry pointed out so accurately, for a character that really a lot of people don't know about, he's had a very, very life in film and TV.
01:46:46
Speaker
Yeah. Well, because this is one of those characters that can easily because this was I mean, you guys got to remember that this is 1982. The only real successful serious superhero movie at this point was the was Superman the movie. Yeah. And so like this was I mean, this was pre Batman. Like everyone's idea of superheroes was still rooted in the 1966 Batman at this point.
01:47:10
Speaker
You know, folks, it took a while for us to get where we are. It took a while to get to Avengers Endgame and Black Panther being nominated for Best Picture Academy Award. It took us a while to get there. And Swamp Thing is one of the places where it started.
01:47:30
Speaker
Well, and Swamp Thing too, like Blade, like The Crow, it's one of these properties that can easily cross over to other genres that appealed to more mainstream audiences back then. Swamp Thing, you look at it and it's not, if you don't know anything about Swamp Thing, you go in, you watch this movie in 1982, you don't know it's a superhero movie.
01:47:55
Speaker
You know, when you watch Blade, you don't know Blade is a superhero movie. No. Well, Blade was not. And which is why I tell people all the time, I said, Blade was not marketed. Oh, yeah. Well, that's where the MCU started. No, it didn't. It was advertised as the newest was these things. Action movie was not, you know, mostly. Matter of fact, when I told most people that.
01:48:16
Speaker
Blade was a character from a comic book They said get out of here and I had a show to them because they didn't but they thought it was a character There was these snakes that come up with and you know The only reason I knew blade was a comic character was because he appeared in the spider-man cartoon
01:48:32
Speaker
Oh okay, well see there you go. That was the only reason I knew. If I'd never seen the Spider-Man cartoon and Blade came out, I would not have known he was a Marvel character. Why? Because they didn't even mention Marvel Comics in the credits at all. They exactly, they'd mention nothing about Marvel Comics in there. See, now I knew the character because I have
01:48:52
Speaker
And yes, I am bragging here. I have a complete run of Tomb of Dracula from the 1970s. Marv Wolfman and Gene Colan, where Blade was a supporting character. So, yeah, and I was telling people the history of the character and their minds were blown because, like I said, most of them think that this is a character that was these types, you know, that he came up with because, yeah, I mean, in this movie, Swamp think there's a very little blurb that's at the end of it or at the beginning, I think, in the credits, they said, well, based on the character,
01:49:22
Speaker
you know, that appears in DC. Yeah. And that's it. But it's so fast that if you blink, do miss it. And again, and again, it goes back to what I'm saying.
Wes Craven in Superhero Cinema
01:49:32
Speaker
This movie was sold as a Wes Craven movie. It wasn't sold as a superhero movie or, you know, whatever. So people are so new that Wes Craven was a horror movie guy. So they just assumed that this was another, you know, horrible. Most people I doubt that 90 percent of the people I went to see this
01:49:50
Speaker
back when it debuted in 1982, had no idea that Swamp Thing was a comic book character. Oh, I remember when I was a kid and I saw the Swamp Thing cartoon, like, I didn't know it was a DC character until years later. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Nobody had no idea. Yeah. You know, they just knew that they just knew. Like I said, this was sold as this was sold as a Wes Craven movie.
01:50:15
Speaker
And you know what, it's interesting, you know, seeing Wes Craven direct a superhero movie of sorts, and it really makes you wonder if he would, if he had survived to this era, you know, everything he's learned over, everything he'd learned over his long career, what kind of superhero movie could he make these days? Yeah, exactly. And if he had the budget, you know, that he wanted to have, and Wes Craven had like, say like, you know, $50 million.
01:50:42
Speaker
Well, I mean, you picture him doing something like Dr. Strange. Like Dr. Strange, exactly. I mean, that'd be like totally in his wheelhouse, especially if he has like nightmare as the as the villa. I mean, that would have been might be a nightmare. Yeah. You know, that'd have been right up his alley. Yeah, Dr. Frank. Or he does. If he does does blade or something like that, or I mean, there it really make it. It's it's really a really sad because you see, like he would have he did treat this material with respect.
01:51:08
Speaker
You know, he did. He did. You know, I mean, I would have loved to see Wes Craver to do like a Dracula movie. Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you know, him doing Blade or something like that. Yeah, doing Blade or Ghost Rider. Oh, oh, God, that would have been amazing. Him doing Ghost Rider.
01:51:28
Speaker
But anyway, you know, check out Swamp Thing. It's, you know, it's, and watch it with the mindset that this is a different era. And this is Wes Craven before he really made his bones. Like this is pre Nightmare on Elm Street.
01:51:43
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But it's like I said, if you're a West Craven fan, it's still well worth watching. Like I said, if you want to see it, it's on YouTube. The picture quality I'm going to tell you right now is not the best. But if you want to invest a couple of dollars and go ahead and rent it, I believe it's on Amazon Prime. Yeah, it's on Amazon. We'll have a we'll have a link on the page. Yeah. If you want to do that, hey,
01:52:10
Speaker
you know be my guest i'm just trying to save you a couple of dollars here you know all right um so that's all now next week is well next episode not next week will be um will be my pick and so i thought i can't wait i thought we'd um i thought we'd jump ahead a little bit and take a look because we were talking about
01:52:32
Speaker
you know these different, like starting these different eras of superhero cinema. So I thought we'd take a look at another big milestone and that is X-Men.
Next Episode Tease: X-Men Movie
01:52:41
Speaker
Ooh, okay. So yeah, next episode, tune in. We'll be, we'll be watching and talking about the first X-Men movie, which pretty much introduced the world to Hugh Jackman.
01:52:53
Speaker
Oh, okay. This, okay. I'm about to say this is the one with you. Okay. We're doing that one. Okay. Yeah. The very first one from 2000. Okay. So that'll be interesting to go back in and see again through after all these years now. Because I don't believe I've seen that one in about 10 years. Yeah. It's been known by seven. You know, okay. You know, when the last time I saw it, I saw it cause I wouldn't see Logan.
01:53:20
Speaker
Oh, OK. And I saw and I was about three years ago or so. Right. And I just happened to catch X-Men because when Logan came out, like like all of the cable channels was basically like running all of the X-Men movies. And I caught the first one. I say, you know what? I haven't seen the first one in like a long time. You know, let me check it out.
01:53:41
Speaker
OK, yeah, OK, I'm looking forward to this. Nice, nice little jump ahead. Nice little jump ahead. OK, that's the nice thing about the way we're doing this, because we can you know, we can jump around. We don't even have to go in series orders if we wanted to, like we could skip into like different, you know, like the third movie in a series or something like that. Oh, everyone's seen these movies, so it's just we're just kind of like seeing where we go with it.
01:54:03
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And of course, as always, if there's a superhero movie that you think that Perry and I should be discussing or that you would just like to hear us go off about for two hours, please, by all means, let us know.
01:54:19
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Um, so, uh, and we got, and apparently we're convincing some people because, uh, one of our listeners just posted on the, on the site this morning that, um, after we talked about the crow, you know, he had never really thought about looking at the sequels, but now he's going to go check them out after hearing our discussion. Oh, and see, you know what? That's what I enjoy hearing most of all, because if, if we can inform
01:54:48
Speaker
as well as entertain and especially get you to go watch these movies and then come back and talk about it with us or go talk about it with your friends. Hey, that's the whole point right there. Yeah, and you can come and talk about it with us. We got our Facebook group, Superhero Cinephiles. We're on Twitter at SuperCinemapod and
01:55:12
Speaker
We've got a Facebook page as well. Or you can just drop by our website, send us an email if you don't want to talk in front of other people, that's fine. The website is SuperheroCinephiles.com. All right, that pretty much brings us to the end of the episode.
01:55:29
Speaker
Drop us a line, let us know what you think. Did you watch Swamp Thing? Have you not watched it? Talk to us, let us know what you think about the movie. And we'll start a thread on the Facebook page, see what people think about it as well. So join the Facebook group and come on, stop by and have a chat with us. Yeah, we're there all the time, pretty much. I'm a whore for attention.
01:55:57
Speaker
All right, thanks so much for listening, and we'll be back next episode to talk about X-Men. There you go. Thank you very much for listening. This is Derek Ferguson. And I'm Perry Constantine, and we'll see you guys next time. Good night, and God bless.
01:56:19
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Superhero Cinephiles Podcast. If you have any questions or comments about this or any other episode, or if you have a superhero movie or TV show you'd like us to cover in a future episode, you can email us at superheroescinephiles at gmail.com. Or you can also visit us on the web at superheroescinephiles.com. If you like what you hear, leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. Each review helps us reach more potential listeners.
01:56:46
Speaker
You can also support the show by renting or purchasing the movies discussed, or by picking up our books, all of which can be accessed through the website, as well as find links to our social media presences. The theme music for this show is a shortened version of Superhero Showdown, a royalty-free piece of music, courtesy of Wesleyan Studios.com.