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#188 - Olivia Petter
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Author, journalist, broadcaster and one of Forbes' 30 under 30s, Olivia Petter is on the podcast to talk about her debut novel, fiction versus non-fiction and her writing and publishing adventures! [Photo by Alexandra Cameron]
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Transcript
Introduction to Olivia Patta
00:00:00
Speaker
Ooh, a spicy question. I love it. Because the writing is sort of everything. You can fix plot holes, but if the writing... So some readers love that and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this. So it's kind of a gamble.
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast. I am very excited today to be joined by an award-winning journalist, author, and broadcaster, host of the incredibly successful Love Lives podcast, and named one of Forbes 30 Under 30 last
Debut Novel "Gold Rush"
00:00:32
Speaker
year. Her first book, Millennial Love, came out in 2021, and her debut novel, Gold Rush, is out right now. It's Olivia Patta. Hello. Hello. Thank you so much for having me.
00:00:44
Speaker
Thanks for coming on. I'm so excited to chat with you. I'm quite out of breath. Normally the introductions aren't that long, but you have been busy. Oh, that's nice. Thank you. I have been busy. I'm tired. Yeah, you deserve a break. um Let's jump right in with the debut novel, Gold Rush. It's out now in all the usual places. Tell us a little bit about it.
00:01:09
Speaker
So yeah, Gold Rush is about a girl in her mid-20s called Rose who works for the press office of a glossy magazine company. So her job is very glamorous and glitzy. She works with a lot of celebrities, goes to a lot of events with famous people. And it's kind of her job to monitor the way that the magazines she represents are coming across in the media.
Themes of Consent and Societal Change
00:01:33
Speaker
And so at these celebrity events, she often has to look after the celebrities and make sure that they are talking to journalists and so on.
00:01:39
Speaker
And it's at one of those events that she meets a very famous, very charming musician called Milo Jackson. And she kind of strikes up a rapport with him and they wind up spending an evening together and the following day Rose wakes up.
00:01:56
Speaker
in pain and kind of unable to remember how the night ended and what happened between the two of them and so she tries to get in touch with this man um and the rest of the novel kind of unfolds from there and it's about consent and celebrity culture and it's all set in the summer of 2017. So it's a very kind of pre-Me Too story. um So it's kind of set in a time when we didn't necessarily have the language to describe, you know, I feel like no one really talked about consent back then. um And it's kind of very intentionally set just before Me Too. But it's funny because a lot of people who've read the novel and engaged with it have said, you know, it's weird reading this now because it feels like nothing has changed. Just a little bleak.
00:02:46
Speaker
Yeah, it is sad that to think that we went through all of that for very little to have actually shifted, but you hope that there is like a subtle kind of change that we have as a society headed in a better direction.
00:02:59
Speaker
Definitely. i think I think things have definitely changed and you know we are talking about these issues more and there has been a lot of popular culture that has really kind of helped kickstart those conversations. I mean, I made a story, probably the prime example of that. um And I think things are definitely moving in the right direction, but it is it's slow.
Influence of Journalism on "Gold Rush"
00:03:17
Speaker
um yeah And you know I think in the circles that we move in and in the media world, it's kind of easy to think that there is a ah lot more progression than there actually is because We are the ones that talk about this stuff probably the most. I think actually when you step outside of those kind of liberal media bubbles, it's it's not quite the case. um It's not reflected in other parts of society as much.
00:03:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's like a trickle down and eventually it'll get there. But these things take many, many years to to kind of come full circle. Speaking on the novel still, you are a journalist, have been for some time. There are definitely some parallels between this main character and you. Obviously, Gold Rush is a work of fiction, but how much of this did you draw upon your own experiences when writing?
Personal Experiences in Journalism
00:04:03
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i I obviously, I used to work in the Conde Nast press office. So that was my first job. So that very much inspired Rose's world and the world that the novel is set in. um And I think when I had that job,
00:04:19
Speaker
i it I mean, it was so ridiculous. I was 21. It was my first job. And I was suddenly going to events like GQ Men of the Year Awards and Glamor Women of the Year Awards and, you know, Vogue's 100th anniversary party and doing all these incredibly glamorous, glitzy things. And it was strange because on the surface, it seemed so cool and fun. And then what you quickly realize is how empty so much of it is. And I remember when I had that job, the kind of comparison I kept making in my head was to um ah The Bell Jar, Sylvia Plath's novel, um which is a semi-autobiographical novel in which Sylvia Plath
00:05:04
Speaker
writes about how her protagonist Esther Greenwood wins a scholarship to work at a magazine in New York in the 50s. And in her head it was, you know, the most glamorous, glitzy, coolest job you could have. And um the way she describes it, one of the ways she describes it later in the novel is how it was kind of silver and full of nothing. And that line stayed with me ever since I read that book. And then I i i kind of always wanted to write something inspired by that and do a sort of contemporary retelling of the bell jar kind of inspired by that conceit. And then I got this job and then it all kind of came together from there. And I mean, I remember when I pitched a novel to my editor, I actually pitched a completely different idea based on a father-daughter relationship set in the US. And she said, it's boring. but What else?
00:05:56
Speaker
What else have you got? And I said, well, what I really want to do, but I'm a little bit more scared to do is write ah a sort of contemporary version of the bell jar based on that job I had. um And it was only through a few years of really working out what that looked like. And, and, you know, in my journalism, I've done a lot of writing about sexual violence and consent. So it was when I started putting those two pieces together that it made sense to me as a storyline and it kind of evolved from there. and So it's all it's all rooted in, I'd say, emotional truth, yeah I think. And I think that's what a lot of novelists say about their first books as well. um And so, yeah, it was it was really fun to write. um I mean, not all of it was fun to write, but the parts about that job were really fun to write because it was very fun to kind of satirize and and poke fun at a little bit.
00:06:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And when yeah I think, yeah, you've hit the nail on that there. It's about writing ah an emotional truth that you understand and have experience and then you through that you kind of tap into a more shared experience and then each reader individually can kind of relate that to different moments in their lives. Yeah, exactly, exactly. You mentioned that you were you were kind of scared to pitch this to the editor. Were you scared to pitch it to the to the editor or were you scared to write it?
00:07:23
Speaker
I think I was scared to write it because it felt um it just felt more daunting and it felt more ambitious as a story. And it felt harder to pull off because it was it was kind of a vaster cultural commentary as opposed to a small intimate story about a domestic relationship. And it's weird because I love the idea of doing novels about kind of you know more small-scale family domestic dramas but I think maybe because of my journalism and because I'm always thinking so large-scale and it's such a kind of like wider societal level that it comes more naturally to me to offer some sort of social commentary through the writing and I suppose that is
00:08:14
Speaker
maybe more what Gold Rush is as opposed to what my first novel idea was, which would have been more about um personal dynamics. Whereas I think Gold Rush is probably more of a politically motivated piece of work, I suppose. um Not that it's political inherently, but it' it's more so than then what my first idea was for sure.
00:08:37
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds like that first idea would have been a much sort of closed off kind of thing, very centralized within a certain kind of thing. Yeah, it's interesting to hear about how your kind of journalism bleeds into your writing. And I wanted to ask, so I mentioned at the start, Gold Rush is your debut novel, but it's actually your second book.
00:08:59
Speaker
yeah millennial Millennial love, I can't say that much faster, came out in 2021. Was that an extension of the podcast which used to share the same name? Yes, yeah very much so. That kind of came from the podcast and I was approached to write that book. and it wasn't It wasn't my pitch. I'd never really envisaged myself writing nonfiction, to be honest with you. I i mean, it it was kind of an extension of the podcast and of my journalism. I've always wanted to do fiction. um and But when the opportunity came to me, you know, obviously I thought, well, this I'm 25 and I'm being offered a book deal, like obviously I'm going to do it. um and It was amazing. um But it was kind of just just an extension of my journalism in the sense that I was doing sort of
00:09:55
Speaker
essays on things I'd already written about and spoken about and kind of amalgamating interviews that I'd done on the podcast and insights that I'd gained about the dating landscape from doing that. And it was a lot of fun. um And there were bits of personal personal essay kind of woven through it.
00:10:17
Speaker
um And, you know, I love that book. I feel very fondly towards it and weirdly nostalgic towards it, even though it wasn't actually that long ago. It feels like I was in such a different place in my life when I wrote it, just because obviously things change so much and so quickly, particularly at at my age, you know, I've just turned 30 and like looking back in the last five years, it's just crazy how much is.
00:10:38
Speaker
changed in terms of my life and and the person I feel like I am. So it's interesting looking back on it. um And I think there is a lot of that book that does kind of feed into Gold Rush in a way, like there is a dating app element in Gold Rush at one point. And I think a lot of the kind of anxieties that I talk about in that book do feed into Gold Rush um because it's impossible for them for them not to, I suppose. yeah But it yeah it was it was very, very fun writing that book. And I feel very grateful for having been having and given the opportunity because you know it was that that book that then enabled me to say to my editor, write what I really want to do fiction.
00:11:21
Speaker
and getting the chance to do that. And now, you know, I'm hoping to be able to do that for a very, very long time. I just want to write so many novels. Yeah. Yeah. So everyone listening, you need to go and buy Gold Rush now so that Olivia can keep writing novels. We've got to make it the best out of those. Yeah, please do. Please do. Please buy it. Please review it. Please post about it. And certainly you need to do all of the things.
00:11:44
Speaker
but um You mentioned that you always wanted to do fiction. Had you written a lot of fiction kind of whilst you were doing journalism and things before Gold Rush?
00:11:56
Speaker
I'd done little bits here and there, nothing concrete. I'd entered a few short story competitions. I'd done a few bits and bobs, but nothing properly, no. um So I think I had a lot of imposter syndrome and a lot of self-doubt when I started writing it, which which is why I went about it in the way that I did. you know I sold the book on a partial.
00:12:21
Speaker
um Which normally you know you don't do, normally you finish the book and then sell it as a finished product. yeah um But I kind of needed the belief that someone was going to want to publish it before I finished it. I kind of needed that motivation. And I remember with my agent, she said, just write 10,000 words.
00:12:40
Speaker
Um, send it to me. And so I did that and I was like, okay, is this, is this fiction? Is this, is this something I'm doing? Is this what I'm doing? Does this work? Does this make sense? And she said, yes, keep going. Um, so I kind of just needed constant like hand holding and validation because it was so.
00:13:01
Speaker
um It's just difficult. you know I remember Elizabeth Day once said to me, she's like, you've you've written journalism, you know you can you you can write, you can write a novel. And I just thought it can't be that easy. um And it has never felt that easy for me. So I've tried and um you know I feel like it's something that I will get better at the more that I do. And for me, the way that I learn about writing the most is through reading. um And I mean, I've read referenced him in almost every interview I've done, but Jonathan Franzen's writing, I think, is one of the best examples of fiction writing that I've ever come across. So I think I learn a lot from reading him.
00:13:46
Speaker
um And every every novel I read at the moment, I'm very careful and very selective with the books that I read because I feel like they feed, they bleed into my writing style subconsciously. So I'm trying to read only very, very good books. High quality, well written in novels. I'm trying to avoid the slightly funner, trashier pieces for now, just because otherwise it will bleed into what I do, I think.
00:14:13
Speaker
and Okay. Yeah. Maybe when you're like between books, you can treat myself to something yeah something bit faster. um So do you feel like it's a very different exercise, ah sort of flexing different muscles when you're writing journalism versus a novel? Oh my God, completely. And it's a totally different process for me. Like with my journalism, I can kind of write on my phone, on the train, I can write in a busy cafe, I can write in the middle of the street, I can write on a plane like anywhere with, and I can kind of dip in and out of it very quickly. Whereas with novel writing, I need to be
00:14:51
Speaker
totally alone totally quiet room or maybe listening to some classical music no emails no distractions no phone nothing i need to be in the right headspace i need to be i need to be well rested i need to be Um, you know, feeling healthy and exercising and making sure that I'm looking after myself, like it's much more high maintenance for me doing fiction, basically. Um, and maybe that will get less. So the more I do it, but at the moment it's, um, it's quite, I'm quite particular in the conditions that I can write fiction in because it is a different headspace and I need to really immerse myself in that world. And it's harder to do that when I have constant distractions around me, you know?
00:15:39
Speaker
Yes, which in 2024, there are distractions everywhere. Distractions abound. um I totally get that because i'm yeah, I'm the same. i have to Phone has to be on silent like face down, so I can't even see the screen lights up. Because if if i'm if you're in that, I don't know if you're like this, but if if you're in that flow state, it literally takes almost nothing to get me out of it, and it's very hard for me to get back into it.
00:16:02
Speaker
Yeah, exactly, exactly. And that's the problem. So I need to be very careful with the kind of state that I'm in, essentially.
00:16:12
Speaker
um Getting back onto onto the, I wanted to ask, because we we mentioned your agent, um it's Emma Leong. Yes. Was that, did you sign her for Millennial Love? Did she approach you? And that was how Millennial Love came about.
00:16:28
Speaker
So I actually didn't have an agent for Millennial Love, ok which which was a mistake, ah by the way. don't Don't do a book deal without an agent. I just knew nothing about the industry. I had no friends that had written books. I was so green and so new to it all. I just thought, well, I've got a book deal and people get agents to get book deals. And I don't need an agent because I've already got a book deal. That is stupid. Don't do that. um So I did a whole thing without an agent. Can I just ask why was that? like What was the mistake there that an agent would have fixed? Well, it's just a mistake because you need because you need an agent to look over your contracts. You need someone to be kind of guiding you through it and just talking you through the process.
00:17:10
Speaker
and you know It's not that like anyone's trying to swindle anyone, but you need someone on your team to be working working with you on it and like negotiating the deal on your behalf. That is just the way that these things need to go. um Agents do a very important job in the industry. You need someone to be fighting your corner. You can't just be a lone wolf doing this. You need to have someone supporting you and backing you. so I did it without and then I, when I wanted to do fiction, I kind of started looking at the agent process and I had had a few agents approaching me and I'd done a few meetings with them and spoken to them, but at this point I hadn't written anything yet. So they were all like, well, write some fiction and then we can talk. And I was like, oh, just, you know, I'm not ready. I can't do it without the motivation. Anyway, and Emma came to me
00:18:03
Speaker
and said, you know, I really love Millennial Love. I'd love to work with you. Let's have a chat. And it was the first meeting with an agent I'd had where I felt like someone really understood my voice and what I was trying to do and really believed in me as a fiction writer. So that relationship kind of then motivated me to start the process of Gold Rush and to get that going. and So yeah, we signed with Emma for that book and yeah, we've been working together since then and it's been it's been amazing and so helpful. And you know, an agent is such a lifeline when you're writing fiction, particularly this kind of fiction that is so rooted in personal stuff and is so
00:18:50
Speaker
ah deeply connected to to to you. So she becomes more of a kind of, you know, I said to her in my speech when i I did at my book launch, you know, thank you for being such a brilliant agent, but also such a loyal, supportive friend and occasional therapist because there is a lot of that that kind of comes into this as well. um You know, writing is an agonizing process at times and you need someone that can really hold your hand through it all. And she she has done that so well. So I'm very lucky. Absolutely. I've said it many times in the podcast before that literary agency, its it sort of transcends just a business relationship a lot of the time, like there is a lot more to it.
00:19:34
Speaker
Oh my God, so much more to it. Yeah. Yeah. It was a really lovely agent who came on the podcast a few years ago. She's no longer an agent, but she she said that she doesn't really think, she thinks of her and her authors as co-conspirators more than like any kind of business arrangement or anything like that. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Is Emma, are you and Emma quite sort of editorial? Like, is there a lot of back and forth before you you kind of shipped out Gold Rush to editors?
00:20:04
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. There was. there was um We kind of talked a lot about the characters and where I saw the story going. um It was very collaborative. I think that's the other thing. People always think writing is such a solitary exercise and I actually really don't think it should be. I think it's so easy to get so in your own head and you really need other people to comment on your writing and work with you on it because not only will they make it better by bringing in their experience and their perspective, that but they can also point out your blind spots, which we all have. And I think it's really important to have someone who can call you out on things that you might be missing out on or might not have identified and
00:20:56
Speaker
you know I think that's why agents and editors are so, so important, particularly for fiction, because it's, yes, it's coming from your own brain, but you need to be really open to discussion and and collaboration and be really, just just be really open-minded about where things could go. Yeah, because often you're, especially with fiction, like you say, you're sort of too close to it, you have too much knowledge that other people don't have. Whereas I guess,
00:21:25
Speaker
Um, I would imagine with like journalism and nonfiction stuff, because a huge portion of that is a sort of research into other things. You're not close in the same way to it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. The blind spots different.
00:21:42
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it just has to be really, really collaborative. And you have to just be aware that, you know, your experience of the world is is always going to be limited. And if you're writing fiction, you just need to be aware that all sorts of different people will be reading that work, connecting with it. And you want to give it as broad appeal as possible, I think, um in a lot of cases. And, you know, you're you're creating real people.
00:22:12
Speaker
um You want your characters to be as believable as possible. And so I think having other people feeding into that is is a way to make them more three-dimensional. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. um Before we head over to the desert island, ah I would feel remiss if I didn't ah touch on what ah what is from the outside looking in and intimidatingly successful career in journalism for you. ah You mentioned that your very first job was at Conde Nast. Where did you go from there to like kind of end up where you are now?
00:22:46
Speaker
I mean, thank you. God, it's so hard to see your own career as intimidatingly impressive. I mean, I'm always like this old thing, um but I'm pleased it looks that way to the outside world. um It does. and So after that job, I actually, so it was a maternity cover. um So it was only ever meant to be for a year, but then the woman I was covering for didn't come back.
00:23:10
Speaker
So they actually offered it to me full time. And I had had the most incredible time in that job. I felt so lucky. I'm still friends and close with all my colleagues there. It was the most incredible introduction to the industry, but I knew I didn't want to do PR. um I wanted to write, so I actually turned it down and then I didn't have a job for a while, which was scary. um And I remember.
00:23:32
Speaker
ah I didn't get some big jobs I really wanted. I think there was a job at Tatler to be like a features assistant. And I got really, really far down the line and then I didn't get it. And I was so devastated. um But then I ended up getting a digital internship at Vogue and they used to do these six month long internships. And so I did one of those and that was great. And I was able to do some writing there, even though it was primarily kind of basic editorial work and research and stuff. But I did do some writing and I think that was a great platform because obviously Vogue is such a brilliant brand name. So that really helped. And then the job at The Independent came up to be a lifestyle reporter and
00:24:18
Speaker
i actually I actually think I saw a commercial job come up first. And I went to university with a girl who worked at the Independent. And so I DM'ed her on Twitter. And we didn't know each other, but we like knew of each other on social media. So I DM'ed her and said, Hey, I've seen this job is going like Do you think I'd be right for it? Do you know who to who I could apply to? And she said, this is actually a commercial job, but we are actually looking for someone in my team, in the editorial team, so you can apply, apply here.
00:24:52
Speaker
um And I did and, you know, I was very lucky and that person was Rachel Hosey, who I then went on to host the Millennial Love Podcast with and launch it with. um So that was amazing. And I then got the job um and I was kind of suddenly thrust into a newsroom for the first time. I think I was 23.
00:25:13
Speaker
um And very much learned on the job. um Rachel taught me a lot and my boss at the time, Dave, taught me a lot. um And I kind of just worked my way out from there. And then I was at the independent full time as a lifestyle writer.
00:25:28
Speaker
for about five or six years um until I went freelance in 2022. And since then I have been still working a couple of days a week for the independent and then freelancing for anyone and everyone else essentially. um And I think when i did when I did my first book, Millennial Love, I did build up a lot of contacts across the industry because when I was promoting that, I wrote about the themes around the book for a lot of other people. So I think that gave me a really good kind of contacts book, um which you need in order to be a freelance journalist. um And so yeah, I'm so i'm i'm still in touch with with all of those people I worked with then. And um and since then, I've just been kind of slowly slowly building building it up, I suppose. um yeah And it's fun, but it's busy and it's exhausting.
00:26:17
Speaker
And you know you say yes to everything because you're freelance, so you feel like you have to. um But no, it's it's it's great. It's really, really great. That's great. It's so nice to hear as well um that it, and no, no offense, but that it wasn't just like this very easy, smooth trajectory. It's good to hear. It wasn't easy at all. Yeah. It really really wasn't easy. There were so many rejections and even, you know, in the, in the five years you of being full time at the independent, you know, that's a very up and down journey of trying to carve out your niche of what you want to write and trying to actually get your pieces landing and get,
00:26:57
Speaker
get your voice kind of heard and and kind of writing the the right features for you and trying to work out what kind of corner of the industry you want to try and make your own. It's it's it's all a long, long old process. you know I've been doing this a long time now, so it's definitely not been easy. And I had no contacts in the industry. you know no No one in my family has ever worked in this industry. I wish they had. I'd love to be an F.O. baby.
00:27:25
Speaker
Um, but no one in my family is even a writer. So, you know, it's been ah it's been a long old, long old slog. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, what advice would you, would you kind of give to anyone now looking to start a career in journalism? Um, it's so difficult. I do a lot of mentoring for young journalists and I kind of always try and tell them the same thing, which is to, first of all, just remember, you can pitch to anyone at any time. ah You really can. I think one of the best routes in to getting published is ah comment journalism, because those um comment editors are always looking for people with specific experiences that they can bring to their
00:28:12
Speaker
pieces and form form their opinions around. um So I always say keep an eye on the news and whenever there is a big news story and you have a particular experience or insight into that story that you could put into a comment piece, pitch that to that comment editor. You can always find out who who a comment editor is at any paper and you can work out their email addresses quite easily online.
00:28:39
Speaker
um I would do that. I also think just, just start writing, you know, start, we were talking before we started recording about Substack and it's very much a platform that I am still trying to wrap my head around.
00:28:52
Speaker
But I think it can be a really useful portfolio if you're just starting out in journalism um and it can be something that you can really slowly build upon and that you can send to editors. So when you do pitch stories that like, do you have any examples of your writing? You can send them your sub stack and they can see what you've done and what you're capable of and what you're interested in. um And I think, you know, reach out to journalists who inspire you. um If they're editors at particular publications, you never know. I mean, contacts can come from anything. um And I also always say anyone that you do meet in the industry,
00:29:28
Speaker
be very nice to everyone because you will be working with these people for your entire career. You know, I'm still working alongside people that I interned with when I was 20, 21. Um, and those people commissioned me now, you know, so just always bear that in mind. Um, I think, um, be, be kind to everyone yeah is always really good advice. Yeah. Cause these industries are much smaller than they seem.
00:29:57
Speaker
Oh, God. Yeah. Way, way smaller. Yeah. And people stay in them. Yes, absolutely. I think the publishing is the same as well. We talk about novels and things like that. Totally, yeah. Editors are often moving around, but they're always present and things like that. so Yeah. No, that's great. A lot of good advice in there. And now we'll saunter over to the desert island and I will ask you, Olivia, if you were stranded on a desert island with a single book, which book do you hope that it would be?
00:30:27
Speaker
Um, it would have to be the bell jar. Uh, but yeah, because I've, I've learned so much from that book and from Plath's writing more generally and from her poetry and her prose is so lyrical and so not the way that I write, but I just find it so beautiful to read. And I think it's, it's so.
00:30:54
Speaker
visual. And she has a way of describing experiences and things that are somehow both really complex and really simple at the same time. And that makes for such compelling reading. um And I don't think I would ever get bored reading reading her writing. So that's why I'd have to say, yeah, the bell jar.
00:31:15
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds like that book has had a deeply profound effect on you, which is great. I love it when you find a book that really like stays with you probably for the rest of your life. Definitely, definitely has, yeah. And I presume that's probably the dream of an author as well, is to write a book that just stays with people.
00:31:35
Speaker
Oh, God, yeah. That's, I mean, that's the goal, isn't it? To write something that people can, I suppose, refer back to throughout their life. And, you know, not not necessarily people who are writers, but I guess the goal is to to make someone feel seen, um yeah to make someone feel understood. And that's what that book did and continues to do for me. And that's what I would always hope that my writing could be capable of doing for other people.
00:32:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's about, for me, it's like a monster calls is a book that kind of, I don't know if ah it was necessarily about being seen, but it was about sort of reflecting on my own self and learning something new about me through that book. And yeah, that's ah that's the the goal for like any any kind of really powerful book. Yeah, so totally.
00:32:30
Speaker
Awesome. Next up, I've got some questions about the the the podcast and and everything that's going on with that. um Olivia's writing process and ah being on the 30 under 30 list, but that's going to be in the extended episode exclusive to my incredible Patreon subscribers. um That's it. You'll always be under 30 according to the internet. Amazing. Well, that's a great way to round off the episode. Thank you so much, Olivia, for coming on the podcast and telling us all about your writing and your experiences and the new book, Gold Rush. It's been awesome chatting with you. Thank you so much for having me. It's been lovely to chat to you. I really appreciate it.
00:33:11
Speaker
And for anyone listening, wanting to keep up with what Olivia is doing, you can follow her on Twitter at OliviaPetta1, on Instagram at OliviaPetta, or you can go to her website, OliviaPetta.co.uk. The debut novel Gold Rush is out right now in all the usual places. To support the podcast, like, follow, and subscribe. Join the Patreon for ad-free extended episodes and check out my other podcasts, The Chosen Ones and other tropes. Thanks again, Olivia, and thanks to everyone listening. We will catch you on the next episode.