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X-Men: The Last Stand (2006)
377 Plays2 years ago
In this episode, Joshua Chumbiray of the Super Scary Podcast is the guest to discuss X-Men: The Last Stand! We talk about the rushed and troubled production, how overstuffed this movie is, and how amazing it is that Fox managed to screw up The Dark Phoenix Saga twice. We've also got some good things to say, particularly about Kelsey Grammer's Beast.
Listen to Joshua on the Super Scary Podcast
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Transcript
Greetings and Introductions
00:00:16
Speaker
On order, Charles! I love what you've done with your hair. You too. Thank you for seeing me on such short notice. Henry, you are always welcome here. You're a part of this place. I have news. Is it, Eric? No. Though we have been making some progress on that front. Mystique was recently apprehended. Who's the furball?
00:00:41
Speaker
Hank McCoy, Secretary of Mutant Affairs. Right, right, the secretary. Nice suit. Henry, this is Logan. He's, uh... Wolverine. I hear you're quite an animal. Look at his talking. You know Magneto's gonna come get Mystique,
Mutant Cure Controversy
00:00:55
Speaker
right? Magneto's not the problem. At least not our most pressing one. A major pharmaceutical company has developed a mutant antibody. A way to suppress the mutant X gene. Suppress? Permanently. They're calling it a cure.
00:01:15
Speaker
Well, that's ridiculous. You can't cure being a mutant. Well, scientifically speaking. Since when do we become a disease? How can anybody know, right? They're announcing it now. These so-called mutants are people just like us. Their affliction is nothing more than a disease, a corruption of healthy cellular activity. But I stand here today to tell you that there's hope.
00:01:45
Speaker
And this site, once the world's most famous prison, will now be the source of freedom for all mutants who choose it. Ladies and gentlemen, I proudly present the answer to mutation. Finally, we have a cure. Who would want this cure? I mean, what kind of coward would take it just to fit in?
00:02:10
Speaker
Is it cowardice to save oneself from persecution? Not all of us can fit in so easily. You don't shed on the furniture. Well, for all we know, the government helped cook this up. I can assure you the government had nothing to do with this. Well, I've heard that before. My boy, I have been fighting for mutant rights since before you had claws. Did he just call me boy? Is it true? They can cure us? Yes, Rogue, it appears to be true.
00:02:40
Speaker
No, professor. They can't cure us. You want to know why? Because there's nothing to cure. Nothing's wrong with you. Or any of us for that matter.
Podcast Introductions and Personal Connections to X-Men
00:02:54
Speaker
Welcome to the Superhero Cinephiles Podcast. I'm your host, Perry Constantine, and welcoming a new guest, a fellow podcaster, and that's Josh Chumbarai. Josh, how you doing today?
00:03:05
Speaker
I'm doing good. How are you? I'm doing pretty good. So what I like to do with new guests is give them a chance to talk a little bit about themselves. So why don't you tell the audience a little bit about you and what you do. Awesome.
00:03:19
Speaker
Hey listeners, my name is Josh. I host a podcast called Super Scary. We primarily cover horror movies, but we also dive into some other stuff like sci-fi and superhero films. We just recently
00:03:36
Speaker
recorded with Perry for Morbius which was which was fun to kind of rip into you know a really bad movie and give our suggestions of how we would make it better so we have a lot of fun on my podcast.
00:03:53
Speaker
Otherwise, I really enjoy superhero films. So I was happy that Perry reached out to me because I was kind of looking for somebody to share my love of superhero films with. So I'm excited to dive into this today. So let's start there and talk a little bit about how you got into superhero movies and all that stuff. What's kind of your background as far as superhero movies go or comics or anything like that?
00:04:22
Speaker
Yeah, so I believe I watched the first X-Men film, and I think that came out in like 2000, right? Yeah. So I was about...
00:04:36
Speaker
I was born in 92 so I was like 8 or 10 years old when I first watched that and I really connected with the X-Men and I think me being gay as well kind of, you know, their themes of
00:04:54
Speaker
you know kind of being outcasts in their community or in society in general you know that really kind of resonated with me even though at the time you know obviously I didn't really understand until I was much older but you know now I really kind of connect with it on that level but but otherwise you know the X-Men in general I think are just really creative because they have a lot of
00:05:21
Speaker
you know, creative powers and I like the diversity in the group. Whereas sometimes with, you know, Justice League or Avengers even, they all kind of blend together at a certain point, at least for me. Yeah, so the X-Men really kind of called to me, but I really enjoy Marvel a little more than DC.
00:05:47
Speaker
But of course, growing up, I feel like in the 90s, the Superman and Batman cartoons and even X-Men and Spider-Man, all those kind of classics, I still kind of go back to those, gravitate towards those.
00:06:06
Speaker
Yeah, I think a lot of that, and we've talked a lot about this on the show before, it's whatever kind of grabs you first, like if it's Marvel or DC, whatever kind of grabs you, that kind of makes you the fan for them for life. So with you, it was Marvel. With me too, it was Marvel. It was also the X-Men. I'm about nine years older than you, so it actually was the animated series. So I was in high school when the movie came out.
00:06:31
Speaker
but so it was the emanate series that drew me in and then ended up moving from there to the comics and on but um other guests i've had on who they got into like um like superman or batman first and then they end up being a dc fan hardcore now more than marvel so yeah i'm very much kind of the thing even though i do love a whole lot of dc stuff now um marvel is still kind of what i just kind of like naturally gravitate to towards as a result
00:06:58
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And also with the X-Men movies in particular, I feel like they, well, I think Spider-Man technically came out, did it come out
The Evolution of X-Men Films
00:07:13
Speaker
before? No, Spider-Man came out in 2002 and then X-Men came out in 2000.
00:07:19
Speaker
Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. So my memory serves correct. You know, X-Men kind of set the tone for like the early 2000s, you know, good and bad in some regards, you know, but I really enjoyed, you know, I recently rewatched them like during the pandemic. And then of course with Disney acquiring the Fox properties,
00:07:44
Speaker
they're all kind of popping up on Disney Plus now so I'm just like oh great another excuse to watch it so um but uh the the movie we're talking about today the last stand I hadn't really watched I want to say like a good five years like it's been a good bit
00:08:02
Speaker
Yeah. So I enjoyed rewatching this. And I feel like I'm not as critical on it now after, you know, some of the other X-Men movies that have come out since and even, you know, just Marvel properties in general, there's something bad. So I'm not as critical on this as maybe, you know, like 10 years ago watching this.
00:08:26
Speaker
I think I've gone through phases where I've been more critical and less critical of it as throughout the years I remember when it came out it was very critical of it at the time especially because it kind of divided the fandom into these two groups at the time it came out because
00:08:43
Speaker
We'll get into the backstory, but before we get into that, another thing I want to ask new guests is what are you kind of interested in now? Not necessarily for your podcast or anything like that, but what are you just kind of like into at the moment? It can be movies, comics, TV, video game, whatever it is.
00:09:01
Speaker
Yeah, well, I really want to play the new Pokémon Violet and Scarlet game, even though if you follow it on social media and all the kind of glitches
00:09:16
Speaker
and stuff that are going on with it is kind of wild and funny. So I really want to check that out eventually. But other than that, I really enjoy playing RPG video games. So I'm kind of replaying a bunch of Final Fantasy games and that type of stuff. And as far as TV and movies,
00:09:41
Speaker
I really have to catch up on a bunch of stuff on Disney Plus like and or I'm gonna be watching this weekend with my dad when he comes into town because he's a big Star Wars junkie like me. So I have to watch that. I have to watch She-Hulk even though. She-Hulk is so good. Yeah. And I don't know if you, I'm sure you've seen the discourse on it, you know, on Twitter and such. So ridiculous. Unbelievable. Yeah.
00:10:10
Speaker
Yeah, so I figured it was kind of, you know, blown out of proportion. But yeah, so I'm excited to watch that. I got about halfway through moon night and then kind of fell off because I think I was watching other stuff like, you know, there's just so much on Disney Plus now that's kind of like being thrown at you every week. So I feel like I have a huge back
00:10:36
Speaker
I know. We're subscribed to Disney, HBO Max, and Netflix. I've got a huge backlog of stuff. And I'm still trying to catch up with the last season of Young Justice on HBO. And now, just this morning before we started recording, I saw that HBO Max is going to be pulling Westworld off its service. And I haven't finished that yet. So now I've got to get back into that yet. It's ridiculous.
00:11:03
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like Warner Brothers is going through a very interesting transition, I guess is the word, you know, and I know that James Gunn recently hopped on as their
00:11:18
Speaker
I guess they're Kevin Feige for the DC Universe. So it'll be interesting to see how that all plays out. But I don't know. It's a mess. Yeah, I mean, so far that seems to be the one good thing, one good decision that Zazlov has made is putting James Gunn in charge of the DC stuff. But all this other stuff, he's trashing HBO Max so he can merge it with Discovery so it can
00:11:45
Speaker
you know he's gonna be flooding it with all this reality TV crap and all this stuff that people actually like me signed up for HBO for you know we're gonna have to get it out somewhere else or it may not be released at all because he doesn't want to pay residual so I mean at this rate they're just gonna end up driving like a whole new Golden Age of Piracy it seems.
00:12:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it'll be interesting. I'm sure there's some sort of bootleg version of the Batwoman. Oh, Batgirl? Or Batgirl. I'm sorry. Floating out there somewhere, which I don't know why they just didn't go ahead and release it. I know. All for a damn tax cut. It's ridiculous. Yeah. Yeah. It's a shame because I think it would have, even though it was, I think it was only going to be released on HBO Max. Right. Yeah.
00:12:35
Speaker
But even so, I think it would have done decently well. You know, I felt like it had like a decent amount of, um, you know, star power, especially with Michael Keaton in it. Kind of the whole multiverse aspect of it. I think it would have really, I think I would have enjoyed it. Cause I do like Michael Keaton's version of Batman from late, the late eighties. Um, and, uh,
00:13:02
Speaker
Well, speaking of that, that's another, the Batman and Robin movie, I think was like my first live action Batman movie that I ate. Wow, that's a start. I know, right? Which, it's a guilty pleasure of mine, I'll admit. I love Uma Thurman as Poison Ivy, I think it's,
00:13:27
Speaker
It's iconic in my opinion. Others may say otherwise, but I think it's just like a fun campy movie, even though it's, you know. You know, I've actually, we did an episode, we did an episode on it a while back and with my, with my late co-host. And one of the things that we, we kind of felt about is like, we both, we both kind of came around on it because if you watch it as a,
00:13:54
Speaker
a modern reinterpretation of the 66 Batman, it's actually kind of entertaining. I mean, it's not a good movie, I wouldn't say, but it's still, it's entertaining. And I had watched Batman Forever recently. We got an episode coming up. Well, by the time this comes out, the Batman Forever episode will be out. But when I rewatch that, I actually kind of
00:14:14
Speaker
changed my opinion on those Batman films because at first it was you know Batman and Robin was the worst one of them but now I'm like no actually Batman forever is probably the worst one of them it's just like a total mess also unbelievably horny yeah yeah yeah so I you know just a kid watching you know
00:14:38
Speaker
Well, that movie, it's just weird, the Batman and Robin movie, the bat nipples, the weird Mr. Freeze. It's a lot, but I enjoy it. I watch it a lot.
00:14:55
Speaker
I had also read, this kind of came out after Joel Schumacher passed away, and I mentioned this when we talked about the episode, but you saying that you were born in 92 and that you're gay, a lot of that made me remember that I had read that a lot of LGBTQ people around your same age, even my generation too, a little bit, found Batman and Robin really influential to them in their self-discovery journeys.
00:15:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I've definitely seen like reports about that. And I would agree to a certain degree. I mean, like Robinson freaking underwear, basically. And even, I mean, in my circles on Twitter and stuff, you know, a lot of the
00:15:48
Speaker
there's a lot of discourse about Nightwing and his voluptuous butt, if you will, in the tights and the kind of clamoring about it with Gotham Knights. I think it was an early version of it where he didn't have a nice butt and everybody was like, no, like, cancelled. Yeah, so I would definitely agree with that.
00:16:12
Speaker
Yeah, Dick Grayson seems to be a huge thirst trap for both for both gay fans and female fans. I've noticed. Hey, I will say amen to that.
00:16:25
Speaker
Um, but anyway, so, uh, today we're, like you mentioned, we were talking about, uh, X-Men The Last Stand.
Production Challenges of X-Men The Last Stand
00:16:31
Speaker
And, like I had started to talk about before, um, this movie was kind of a total mess going into production. I know you were very young when, uh, this came out, so I'm not sure how much you were kind of privy to at the time, but, uh,
00:16:45
Speaker
Singer had done X2, and one of the things I hate about this now is this is kind of putting me in a position where I have to defend Bryan Singer, which is something I hate doing, because the guy's a monster, but...
00:16:59
Speaker
But at the time, you know, Singer had done X2 and he had started to work on like a treatment for the third movie. He had planned to have the whole focus be like the Phoenix, bring in Emma Frost and the Hellfire Club. I think he actually wanted Sigourney Weaver to play Emma Frost was kind of like his casting idea for it. And it was gonna be kind of like this three-way battle between the X-Men, the Brotherhood and the Hellfire Club trying to, you know,
00:17:26
Speaker
take control of the Phoenix in some form. And that was going to be the through line of the entire movie. Problem was, Fox kept dragging their feet on whether or not they wanted to make a third movie. And they were just kind of like, oh, you know, we haven't decided. We haven't decided yet. And so then Singer got offered the chance to do a Superman movie. And Superman movies were always kind of like in this weird flux at that time because
00:17:51
Speaker
The Superman Lifts project with Nicholas Cage and Tim Burton was kind of killed after Batman and Robin. And then there were all these different versions that were floating around. J.J. Abrams was working on one at one point and there was Brett Ratner was involved at one point and you know, I think M. Night Shyamalan was even involved at one point and it was just like all these different treatments and scripts flying around. Wolfgang Peterson was involved in a Superman Batman movie at one point too.
00:18:21
Speaker
And then finally, they approached Singer, and Singer was a huge fan of the Richard Donner Superman films. And apparently Kevin Spacey had said that on the set of The Usual Suspect, Singer was telling anyone who would listen about his idea for better Superman III.
00:18:41
Speaker
So this was something that he'd apparently wanted to do for a while. So when Warner Brothers came to him and asked him if he'd be interested in doing Superman, he asked them, oh, I would do it if you let me do it as a sequel to Superman II. And they said, OK. And then he went on to that. And then as soon as Fox found out about this, they're like, what are you doing? You're supposed to do X-Men 3. And he's like, but you guys told me you're not ready to do it. And they're like, no, we're doing it now. And you have to decide. Are you going to do Superman or are you going to do X-Men? So Singer's like, well, I already signed with Warner Brothers, so I'm going to be doing X-Men.
00:19:09
Speaker
and Fox like, okay, fine, we're getting another director and we are putting, we are fast tracking the third X-Men movie into production and we're going to have it come out the same summer as Superman Returns. And it's like this whole rush production. So they got, they brought on Matthew Vaughn at first to, to do it. And then Vaughn ended up quitting like about a week or so before filming. Cause he said that the schedule Fox was proposing was just
00:19:34
Speaker
ridiculous and it was like impossible to do. So he dropped out of that. Later he would come back to do first class. And then finally they settled on Brett Ratner, which... Brett Ratner. He's the kind of director you go to when you want a film to be on time and under budget. That's basically why you hire Brett Ratner. You don't hire Brett Ratner because you think he's a visionary filmmaker.
00:20:06
Speaker
Yeah, and you could definitely tell in this movie, compared to the first two, kind of the quality of it.
Character Development and Missed Opportunities
00:20:13
Speaker
Because the first two movies have a pretty good storyline for the most part. Oh, yeah. And then this one kind of goes off the rails a little bit. And I think they try to do a little too much, try to combine two different storylines, which
00:20:28
Speaker
upon my rewatch this week, I'm like, okay, maybe it's not as bad. But yeah, you can definitely tell the difference. Well, that was one of the things because Fox was pushing very hard for it to just be about the Brotherhood and the Cure stuff. And then the screenwriters were actually pushing back because they wanted to include the stuff with Jean.
00:20:55
Speaker
and that's kind of why like for like the entire second half of the movie Jean just kind of stands around literally stands around doing nothing. Pretty much and I feel like I just love the the Phoenix saga so much like Jean Grey is one of is probably my favorite character from the X-Men just because she kind of starts out as
00:21:17
Speaker
kind of a damsel in distress in a way in most parts because she's trying to figure out her powers and the place on the team and then you know in the the 80s uh in the comics uh chris claremont you know does an amazing job with the the phoenix saga right um so when i i remember reading those comics and it was probably shortly after the movies came out and i
00:21:42
Speaker
I think I told you, Perry, that I have these huge anthology books of the Chris Claremont run. And I recently just found them again. So I'm going to be reading that this weekend too. But anyway.
00:21:58
Speaker
I think the actress who plays Jean does a really good job in this movie, Pompka Jensen. Pompka Jensen, yeah, yeah. She does an amazing job in all three of these movies. And I think she was great in kind of this dual personality. Like you can tell in her face that there's a stark difference between her playing Phoenix and playing Jean. Yes. And I feel like they should have
00:22:27
Speaker
They should have just stuck with the Phoenix storyline. And I think, I don't know if it was Ratner or, who was the original?
00:22:40
Speaker
Oh, Vaughn. Vaughn was... Yeah, I think Vaughn was the one who mentioned that he would have done this as like a two-part movie and kind of incorporated, like you said, the Hellfire Club, which I think would have made a better movie in the world.
00:22:58
Speaker
Right. Yeah, apparently that I didn't I didn't read about the making it a two-parter, but that makes so much sense because Fox was really sold on this idea of this being the final movie at which is why it's called The Last Stand.
00:23:15
Speaker
So yeah, they were really intent on this idea of this being like the final movie in the trilogy and then after that they were kind of gonna close the books on these movies they're gonna move on to other stuff because they're already had they're already doing like some early work on X-Men Origins Wolverine at this point and so they had a bunch of rules for like what characters they could use in this movie what characters they couldn't because they wanted to save some for
00:23:38
Speaker
for Wolverine. Gambit was originally intended by almost everyone who worked in this movie. Gambit was intended to be in this, but Fox wanted him in X-Men Origins instead, so he was pushed off and kept for that. The convoy scene, he was supposed to be one of the prisoners in that, for example. Another script treatment had him as the spoiler person in the Bobby Rogue romance, so he was supposed to be involved in that at one point. Wow.
00:24:09
Speaker
And someone, I can't remember who it was, but someone who was involved said they had wanted Keanu Reeves actually to play Gambit, which would have been an interesting choice at that time, I think. Yeah, I think...
00:24:24
Speaker
I think now as we look at it in 2022, I think it's kind of a miss opportunity to just incorporate those instead of just saving them. Yeah. Because now we kind of look back and I mean like there was supposed to be a solo gambit movie with Jamie Tatum for like the longest time. Right.
00:24:46
Speaker
teenage me was excited about that because I was obsessed with Channing Tatum for a little bit.
00:24:55
Speaker
But now looking back, I'm like, oh, I'm kind of glad that movie didn't get me. But in general, I think they should have just built out the universe. I mean, clearly, these movies were popular enough, I feel like, even though this third one wasn't necessarily critically acclaimed by any means. But I think it's definitely a missed opportunity.
00:25:22
Speaker
Yeah, and they had made a lot of, you could tell that they were planning on this being like the last film then, and they had...
00:25:31
Speaker
They'd kind of pushed back, like the writers and Bradder had pushed back on that a little bit. So they kind of tried to leave the door open for stuff where they could. So like, for example, Cyclops' death, they never show his body. So it's kind of left hanging open that maybe he's still alive. They bring back Professor X at the end of the movie in a post-credits scene. There's the hint at the end where Magneto might have his powers back. So all of this is like, it's like they close the door and they're like, we're gonna leave it open just a little bit.
00:26:01
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, the sequels that come after this are sequels, quotations, you know, especially the Wolverine movie where he's in Japan, and they bring back
00:26:17
Speaker
A Famke Jensen, yeah. A Famke Jensen, yeah, thank you. It's not great. I wish they would have just scrapped focusing on Wolverine so much. I love Hugh Jackman as Wolverine. I think it's perfect casting.
00:26:37
Speaker
I feel like a lot of, you know, the early 2000s movies, like even with Fantastic Four as well, I feel like they were perfectly cast for the time. But in particular, I think Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart are always going to be like my Professor X and Magneto. And same with with Jean Grey too. Famke Jensen, I think just nails it. But
00:27:07
Speaker
I mean, the only castings that I have a problem with in these movies, it's really just Halle Berry is probably the only one I have a problem with because she's just...
00:27:16
Speaker
We'll also in the later movies I've got a problem with Evan Peters as Quicksilver just because that that's not Quicksilver like Quicksilver Aaron Taylor Johnson in Age of Ultron that is Quicksilver from the comics right Evan Peters is basically impulse from DC So I so I've never really I know he's very popular with a lot of the fans of these movies But I've just never been able to accept Evan Peters as Quicksilver because of that and same thing with Halle Berry as Storm like it's just she is
00:27:46
Speaker
Part of it is the scripts don't do her any favors in these movies, but also it's like they keep putting her into this role. Whenever she does get some sort of chance to shine, they move her into stereotypical angry black woman instead of what Storm is in the comics. And that's always been a huge disappointment to me in these movies.
00:28:09
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with that. The fight scene in Jean's house is pretty good, but I feel like Storm is not really shown in a great light. It's just kind of a, you know, punching, kicking, whatever. The constant whirlwind thing got annoying, yeah. Right.
00:28:28
Speaker
Like, why not show off her powers more? I feel like we never really see the full extent of Storm's powers in any of the X-Men films. So I'm hoping with the MCU now having the rights to X-Men that we kind of see the X-Men shine a little more. I mean, I feel like we've seen a great...
00:28:54
Speaker
I feel like we've kind of beat that to the ground so I'm hoping that some of these other like Iceman for example and even Rogue like
00:29:05
Speaker
Rogue is another one of my favorites, and I feel like they just do her so dirty in these early movies. They do, yeah. Which does nothing. She's basically wearing gloves the entire time she can touch no one. We had covered the first X-Men movie on one of our early episodes, and one of the things I noted at the time is that Rogue in that movie
00:29:27
Speaker
She's basically Young Kitty Pride. Like if you go back and you read those early issues of Kitty Pride, that's basically exactly who Rogue is. And it's just like so much of that character is just missing from these movies. I mean, I can't hold Anna Paquin at fault for any of that, because that's just the way these scripts are written. But yeah, she gets done dirty in these.
00:29:50
Speaker
Halle Berry just completely miscast in all these movies. Another one who just gets completely shafted, even though he gives one of the greatest subdued performances is James Marsden. He does so much with so little. He can't show his eyes at all, but still he's able to convey
00:30:11
Speaker
I was surprised when we watched that first X-Men movie, and I had realized, going back and watching it, just how cool and collected Cyclops is throughout that entire thing. Wolverine's constantly trying to piss him off, and he's constantly trying to get him to react, and Scott's just having none of it. He's just really calm and collected, and the first time he meets it, Wolverine grabs him,
00:30:33
Speaker
And you know, gets on a mountain, Scott just kind of looks at him and he just kind of looks over a professor. I just like, listen, can you pull this guy down or can I blast this fucker? And he just he's just total cool professional the whole time. And then.
00:30:46
Speaker
And in some of those deleted scenes, you're seeing some of the deleted scenes in the first X-Men movie, he gets a chance to, we see more of his relationship with Professor X, with Jean. And he's such a good actor and he just gets totally shafted in these movies.
Casting and Portrayal Critiques
00:31:02
Speaker
And then this one too, because...
00:31:05
Speaker
There was also, because of Fox's desire to compete with Warner Brothers, with Superman, they had kind of like a casting wars going on, because Bryan Singer had asked a bunch of people to come and be in Superman Returns, like Famke Janssen, he had wanted in, Sean Ashmore he had wanted, James Marsden obviously, probably a few more too. And then Fox started this kind of like casting war, they told these actors, you can be in X-Men or you can be in Superman, but you can't be in both.
00:31:34
Speaker
So Janssen and Ashmore, they ended up choosing going with the X-Men. And Marsden said, you guys, Singer gave me more to do, is giving me more to do in this Superman movie than you guys gave me to do in two damn movies. All the scenes you had me do in the first two X-Men movies, you cut. So I'm gonna go being Superman then instead. Yeah.
00:31:55
Speaker
And it's true, like he gets more to do in that one movie than he got to do in three X-Men movies. But then eventually they had kind of reached a compromise and they were able to bring him in for a little bit here. And it's just to kill him off. His screen time is like maybe five, 10 minutes tops in this movie. But even still, in that time though, he gives probably the most emotional performance in the movie. Yeah.
00:32:23
Speaker
I mean, the range of emotions that he's showing, even with him wearing the basic sunglasses, it's pretty damn good. And it's a shame that he was only in the movie for, like you said, I think less than five minutes. He kind of has a banter with Wolverine, and then he's like, OK, I'm going to go try to find my potentially deceased girlfriend, BRB, and then
00:32:53
Speaker
obviously he gets killed off and yeah, it's wild. It is. It's just, yeah, but you know, and they try to, I will say one of the best things about this movie though, is Kelsey Grammer as Beast.
00:33:08
Speaker
Oh, yes, yes. Talk about perfect casting, right? And the makeup and the hair, everything about him is just spot on. And I really wish that they would have brought him back for more movies or, I don't know, team him up with Wolverine in one of these movies. Anything. Well, the makeup thing,
00:33:33
Speaker
I'm kind of iffy on the makeup. It works for the most part, but when he's in the costume and everything, I'm just kind of like, this is not working. But for the most part, it works. But just Grammar's performance, though, he is exactly beast from the comics. From that first introduction scene, you see him hanging from the ceiling as he's reading a magazine. Yeah, it's awesome. And just like the wit, the intelligence, and just like his,
00:34:03
Speaker
tone of voice, like his, the way he speaks, it's just, it's perfect for Beast. And even when he, when he says the iconic line from the comics, Oh, my stars and garters, I lost my shit when I heard that in the theaters. And it's, it's so odd though, when you compare it to Nicholas Holt in the, in the later movies, because Nicholas Holt is not at all Beast, like completely divorced from that character.
00:34:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think a big issue with the kind of newer crop of the X-Men films is that they were trying to make the cast younger instead of just kind of rebooting it, even if they used
00:34:46
Speaker
you know Patrick Stewart again as Professor X just kind of and again now with you know the MCU kind of establishing a multiverse or whatnot um you know I think if they were to reboot it now uh you know they can make an argument for bringing some of these people back and just kind of calling it you know a new timeline or whatever but I again I think a big
00:35:11
Speaker
draw from this newer batch of X-Men films is like, they're trying to de-age the cast basically. And we see that with, again, Jean Grey. I think Sophie Turner is a great actress, but
00:35:31
Speaker
that dark phoenix film was just so bad compared to this and that's probably why i give this a little bit more of a yeah that's and i said that we covered dark phoenix a while back and i had mentioned this when i cover that too it it's unbelievable that they screwed up dark phoenix so much in this movie and then they're like okay we're gonna do it again we're gonna do it right and somehow they managed to screw it up even worse
00:35:56
Speaker
Even even more than that is they brought in The same writer who screwed it up the first time and they give it to him and they're like do it again and this time also direct it for your first director director your director debut and I'm just like What did you think was gonna happen here? Yeah
00:36:17
Speaker
Yeah and you're setting yourself up to fail by saying we're gonna get it right this time and use it and basically making the same exact mistake. Same exact mistake. Yeah. Yeah and you know just convoluted plot like not focusing on the right things um shitty writing like
00:36:36
Speaker
trying to shoehorn in Magneto and the Brotherhood into that whole thing as well. Exact same mistakes. Exact same mistakes. And I think they should have just went the Hellfire Club brow and just, you know,
00:36:51
Speaker
Cause that's really the, none of the X-Men movies really bring in the Hellfire Club. And I feel like that's such a big portion of the history of- We get them in first class, but they're- Oh, that's true, yeah. But it's weird because it, to your point though, it's not like the Hellfire, it's like a proto-brotherhood because, you know, Kevin Bacon, you know, as good, as much fun as his performance is, that's not Sebastian Shaw. That's Magneto Light.
00:37:20
Speaker
right down to him wearing the helmet literally and i was just like oh god like come on man you know overall first class is one of the better you know movies of the franchise but yeah um yeah i would just love to see
00:37:40
Speaker
a good version of the Hellfire Club, because I like Emma Frost too. I like all the telepathic telekinetic mutants, I feel like. Did you ever watch the gifted TV series? I watched a little bit of it. I need to go back and kind of rewatch it.
00:37:59
Speaker
because I know that Polaris is in it a little bit. Yeah, yeah, she's a big part of it. But also they work in the Hellfire Club and the Hellfire Club in that is much closer to what they are in the comics than they were in these movies. Gotcha, yeah. So yeah, that's definitely worth a watch.
00:38:17
Speaker
Yeah, I haven't, I haven't watched a whole lot of that. I think I watched like the first three episodes and then again, kind of fell off because I think at the time there was a lot, lot going on. Yeah. Oh, it gets so much better after those first three episodes. Like the rest. Yeah. Like those first three episodes, it was a little bit kind of slow, but, um, and even like the premise, like it was kind of marketed really badly because they put all the focus on this family when really the show's a lot bigger than that. It's actually a really good show and it gave a lot of lesser known X-Men characters a real chance to sign. Like.
00:38:47
Speaker
Blink is in that show and she's amazing in it Polaris is a huge part of it Thunderbird who you know basically it's like no cuz he's killed right away He gets so right he gets he's such a big part of that show though, and it's really good. It's really good show Yeah Back to this movie
00:39:11
Speaker
There's just, I'm trying to think of what I wanted to kind of jump on just because there's so much to talk about here. But I guess Elliott Page is probably a good place to start as Kitty because he is, you know, Kitty has been in all three of these movies, but it was just in cameos in the first two. And it's kind of funny because you watch those movies in order and it's like, it seems like each time they have a different actress playing Kitty, it seems like each time they go younger. Yeah.
00:39:42
Speaker
Yeah, Elliot looks so young compared to the other two. It's very weird. And it's kind of...
00:39:55
Speaker
I don't like the depiction of like Rogue and Iceman and Kitty all having this kind of weird love triangle. And then you're also shoehorning in like Rogue considering the cure just for Iceman to basically, so she can, you know, kiss him or whatever. It's, again, it does Rogue really dirty in this. But I think,
00:40:22
Speaker
I think it was cool to see her or see him in action as Kitty. And I think the effects for the kind of phasing through the walls was pretty good too. I felt like it held up pretty well. And of course the kind of iconic scene of Kitty fighting Juggernaut. And he's like, I'm the Juggernaut, bitch. Oh God, that line.
00:40:51
Speaker
I think that's the first example of a movie using a meme in, and it's just like, it's, it's so cringe-worthy. I mean, cause I remember that video and it was like, it was, it became unexpectedly popular and bizarrely so, cause it's, you watch it now, it's like a lot of mumbling. It's like, I'm the juggernaut bitch. I'm like, this is so stupid. And I don't know who said like, we have to try and put this in. It's just, it,
00:41:20
Speaker
It's so bad. It's so bad. It's so bad. And like just that portion is very like...
00:41:28
Speaker
Like something out of like a campy superhero movie, whereas the rest of the film really kind of takes itself seriously, almost too much. Almost too seriously, yeah. Right, yeah. So I think if they would have made it more so like the kind of flashy campy X-Men movie,
00:41:52
Speaker
then it would have worked, but it's kind of out of place. There's also a weird idea of where everything takes place in this movie, because it seems like, I don't think Brett Ratner knows that the X-Men are based in New York and not California, because the Brotherhood seems to be in the woods out in Northern California, because then they easily walk from their camp out to the Golden Gate Bridge to get to Alcatraz. Yeah.
00:42:21
Speaker
But Wolverine just easily comes in and then easily goes back to the mansion, no jet or anything. And then Kitty has that weird comment where she's talking to Bobby and she's like, I miss home, the first snow. And I'm like, it snows in New York. Yeah, I've always been confused by the location of everything in this movie.
00:42:47
Speaker
Yeah, and you bring up a good point, like Wolverine just kind of comes and goes at the camp and you do make a good point about Kitty Pryde too, I was like.
00:42:57
Speaker
Yeah, it snows really bad in New York. I'm from Pennsylvania originally and it is terrible. Yeah, I mean, we're not talking like, we're not talking Midtown Manhattan. We're like, we're talking upstate New York. They live in, so there's- Yeah, so there absolutely would have been snow, but whatever, okay. Weird flex. It is such, yeah, that's a weird part. And just like the whole,
00:43:28
Speaker
Some of these mutants they introduce, like they bring in Callisto, but she's nothing like Callisto from the comics. They bring in Psylocke and she like turns invisible or something, or I don't know what the hell is going on with her. And Kid Omega, who is not at all Kid Omega, he's Quill, it's just like all these characters. It's like they just had a grab bag of characters and a grab bag of powers and they just mixed and matched.
00:43:55
Speaker
Yeah, and going back to our earlier point about saving certain characters for certain movies, like, I think that writing Psylocke is just some sort of, you know, bottom level tier, like, like... Brotherhood member, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, like, it's a very weird, it's a very weird route to take with her.
00:44:23
Speaker
And even when they introduce her in the later films, they never bring her back really. Right, and they never give her anything really to do when they're like, they do Psylocke so dirty in these movies. Yeah.
00:44:36
Speaker
I think another one that they kind of underused is Multiple Man, even though he, it is really cool what he does at the camp, but that's about it. That's all he does. But yeah, they really kind of shuffled around the powers. They were like, let's do an automated generator and see what it spits out. We'll just call this one Psylocke. Great.
00:45:05
Speaker
would Magneto and Pyro go to that mutant meeting in the church? And Callisto says to him, if you're so proud of being a mutant, where's your mark? That whole thing just came out of nowhere. I'm like, since when is having a tattoo of think about mutant pride? That doesn't make any sense. That's never coming in any of the movies before now. Yeah, it's weirdly established. And I
00:45:31
Speaker
Yeah, I like that they had Magneto basically say like, hey, I've been through some shit. Like, don't fucking come for me. But it's so weird. And I feel like they kind of focus on it in the camp whenever Wolverine is trying to infiltrate it. And they kind of do some close ups of those tattoos on the one guy's neck and stuff. And I'm like, what is the significance of this? It's not really.
00:45:57
Speaker
Like I get that they're against the cure, but I don't think you really need to establish like, hey, they're this faction of mutants. I think we're smart enough. And I think we've talked, we talked about this on the Morbius episode we did on my podcast. Like the audience is smarter than the studio. Oh yeah, absolutely.
00:46:18
Speaker
Like we can kind of differentiate the different factions of mutants. I feel like it was just done as a way to shoehorn in a reminder about the Holocaust stuff with Magneto's background. I really think that's the only, cause that it doesn't seem to have any other purpose beyond that. And it's just, but it's just such a ham-fisted way to do it. Cause you introduced this whole concept of mutant branding that has never existed before in these movies. Right.
00:46:47
Speaker
I don't know if that's, I mean, they do that in the Days of Future Past. Right, but it's not even a mark of mutant pride. It's a mark of, it's like the Holocaust thing. It's exactly like it, where they're branding mutants for differentiation.
00:47:04
Speaker
Right, so yeah, I don't know why, I don't know if it's trying to make a call back to that, but again, like you said, it's probably just a way to shoehorn in Magneto's backstory. Well, I mean, talking about shoehorning- We already know. Yeah, yeah, but talking about shoehorning in characters, Angel, in this. Oh God. And they made such a big deal in the lead up to this movie about how they were gonna introduce Angel, he was gonna be a member of the team and everything,
00:47:34
Speaker
And he has like two beats in this movie, right? There's the scene where he's, even in the opening credits scene where they show him as a young kid trying to cut off his wings. And it makes you think that he's going to be a big focus and his father is in charge of the laboratory and creating the cure. And then literally the only thing he does is he jumps out the window, flies away,
00:47:59
Speaker
pops up randomly at the X mansion when inexplicably they're talking about closing the school suddenly, and then he just flies in at the end, swoops in, saves his dad, and that's it. This was also a weird time with a lot of these Marvel movies because almost every single Marvel movie that was coming out at this time had some sort of idea of
00:48:21
Speaker
fathers and sons, like some sort of like conflict. Like you had David and Bruce in the Hulk movie, you had...
00:48:29
Speaker
You had Warren and his father in this movie. You had the Blade movies had like these We're Fathered Son dynamics stuff going on. And this is something Avi Arad was talking about a lot in interviews. And I'm just kind of like, it feels like you're really forcing up some of your own feelings about your own dad because Warren Worthington II has no purpose in the comics. So why are you making him such a big part of this movie? Yeah.
00:48:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's very strange. And I think they could have utilized Angel a little more, maybe had him part of the team, but instead he's just kind of peering around corners listening to the X-Men team talk about going to his dad's lab. Like that's literally the later half of the movie, he's just kind of standing there peering around the corner and I'm like, I was like, come on bro, like, you gonna help or?
00:49:22
Speaker
And two, I guess he flies all the way from New York to Alcatraz then too after that.
00:49:28
Speaker
Yeah, well, he makes a round trip because he goes from California to New York and then comes back. So I guess he, I guess he, I don't know. I guess he knows how to fly apparently really well, you know, because they don't really establish like how much he knows about his powers. Right. So it just seems strange that he's just so great at flying already. Well, also the
00:49:58
Speaker
And just like the way they assembled the X-Men team here, because you've got Colossus in here who, and I mean, you've got Colossus, you've got Juggernaut in the same movie, both at the same battle scene, and you don't have a Colossus and Juggernaut fight. It's such a missed opportunity.
00:50:18
Speaker
And he has one line in this movie, and it's not even anything related to it. It's a line that could have been given to any random character in the movie. And that's when Bobby asked him, have you seen Roe? And he's like, oh yeah, she took off. And that's it. That's the only thing he has to say.
00:50:37
Speaker
Which is wild that Colossus is the only one that knows what happened to Rogue, aside from Wolverine, obviously. But her own boyfriend doesn't check on her until midday and is like, hey, Rogue, I'm coming over. And it's wild that Colossus is the one. Just randomly. He's walking around carrying a TV. He's like, oh, yeah, she left. Didn't you hear? She left. Yeah, she said bye to me. She didn't say bye to you.
00:51:07
Speaker
And I was just, I watched that and I never really thought about it before. And I'm like, it's like mid day. Like, did you not go say good morning to your girlfriend? Do you not sleep at least like close to each other? You know, you could, there's, there's ways that you can make it work. Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:26
Speaker
Uh, it's such a misop- also like when they go into this battle at the end, they know they're going up against an army. And they make this whole part about, there's only six of us, but I'm like, you've got an entire school full of mutants. I'm like, that would have been, and this is supposed to be like this big all or nothing battle. Even, I understand they're students, but that seems like a good opportunity to rally everybody together.
00:51:52
Speaker
Yeah, and I think they could have at least attempted to find Rogue. Nobody cares that she left. They're like, oh, she wants to go get the cure, whatever. You know, they could have utilized Angel. I'm trying to think of some other people. I mean, there's that girl that
00:52:12
Speaker
I guess she has similar powers to Banshee. Oh, yeah, that's my right. Yeah, that's Banshee. Sorry. Yeah, they could have utilized her. You know, any of them. Jubilee, because I don't know where she appeared in the movie, but I did see in the credits that Kia Wong is credited as returning as Jubilee. So they could have had her in there as well. There are all these different characters you've seen in the background of these movies. You could have had some part for them.
00:52:40
Speaker
right yeah it's yeah it's just wild and and like we said before it's just you're you're saving some but then you're relegating some of these like jubilee i feel like you just came off of the 90s where jubilee played a pretty big part in the animated series they still kind of like kind of shoehorned that in and really kind of capitalized on
00:53:04
Speaker
I mean I don't know how popular she really is with the fandom but you know at least for me I would have been like oh cool that would have been cool to see on screen with like the effects and stuff but... Well I mean that's another thing is like this movie is apparently like at the time it was apparently like the most expensive movie ever made and yeah and I'm watching it and even like if you compare it to like the second movie it looks cheap like it just looks cheap it doesn't look like they spent a whole lot of money on it
00:53:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's like, where's all this money going? Is it Kelsey Grammer's beast bodysuit that he has to wear? Because I mean, Mystique is in this a whole lot. So they couldn't have wasted all that on her makeup.
00:53:54
Speaker
but um which is again another character that's done dirty in this movie and in the ones after too like uh you know i i love i love jennifer lawrence as an actress but unbelievable miscasting there yeah yeah i i don't even know what x-men character she would have been better at but yeah i think um
00:54:20
Speaker
I think the actress who plays her, what's her name? Rebecca Romaine. Rebecca Romaine, yeah. I think she did a great job in the first few movies and then in the third one, they just kind of have her locked up most of the time and then she gets secure. I mean, I think we do get some good moments from her though, like when she's talking to...
00:54:42
Speaker
the guy in there and she's, you know, like her speech about, you know, like all of that, I think she does a pretty good job in what little she's given in this movie. In fact, I'd say I put it on par with her performance in the second movie, because the second movie was probably the best we've seen of Mystique to date. Oh, definitely. Yeah. Cool.
00:55:05
Speaker
Yeah, so I think Rebecca remain in the second movie was great. And I wish we could have seen more of that as far as her like fight scenes and such. Because I think in the second movie, like you said, it's probably the best we've ever seen her. But yeah, I think more of that in this movie probably
00:55:28
Speaker
But again, the plot was busy enough already that probably just throwing Mystique in there to take shift at the end battle probably wouldn't have been, probably wouldn't have worked, but who knows. What'd you think of Jackman's performance in this?
00:55:50
Speaker
Again, I like Hugh Jackman as Wolverine, but I think at this point I was a little exhausted of just kind of them shoving Wolverine down her throats. And, you know, and as the years went on, they continued to be a dead horse in a way. But I
00:56:14
Speaker
I think in this movie, it just wasn't as good as the rest as the other two. I think it's just kind of, it's a little one note and it's...
00:56:27
Speaker
I think because the plot isn't necessarily centered around him, because I feel like the first two movies, it's really centered around his backstory. Right. So there's a little more emotion coming through for Wolverine. But in this movie, he's just kind of like, love stricken by by Jean. And that's basically his entire storyline. Yeah. And like the
00:56:51
Speaker
You know, Jackman's a great actor, but there's only so much he can do with when he's given garbage material like this. And like I look at that scene right before they get on the jet and they go to face off against Magneto and the Brotherhood, where he gives that speech about being X-Men and it just
00:57:07
Speaker
It's so forced. It does not ring true to that character at all. And Jackman clearly knows that as he's delivering the lines because he's trying to deliver them with earnestness and with feeling, but it's clear even he doesn't really buy into these lines. And there was another scene, there's another cut of that scene where Iceman actually gives that speech to Logan and it works much better.
00:57:32
Speaker
Um, but they chose to do it again and do it with Wolverine giving that speech because, you know, he's the main character. So he's got to give the big speech at the end. Yeah. And maybe that would have been a better opportunity to have Halle Berry do that because- Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Yeah. They're trying to set her up to be the person that takes over the school.
00:57:56
Speaker
which I think would have worked. I mean, that's clearly where you're driving the plot. And I think it would have given Halle Berry a little bit more oomph to the character. Because at this point, again, it's
00:58:15
Speaker
It's like garbage material for Storm too. So she just, she's just kind of standing there as like a, you know, second in command to Wolverine somehow, even though she's been at the school for much longer. I mean, there's the whole idea of, you could, if you're serious about committing to the Dark Phoenix storyline, you've got an opportunity here to play up Jean and Storm's friendship, which has not been touched on enough in these movies. But the fact that she is,
00:58:43
Speaker
Like that speech she gives to Logan when he's getting ready to go out for Jean, she's like, oh, she made her choice. She turned against us and all that. That's not Storm. It's just kept what I'm thinking was when she's delivering that speech. And then right before she goes onto the judge, she takes Wolverine aside. She's like, are you ready to do what you have to do? And she's basically saying, you're the one, I'm telling you to go kill Jean. And I'm just like, that is, again, that's not Storm. It's Storm.
00:59:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely not Storm's personality at all. And it's funny to me, I was just thinking about this, the accent that Halle Berry uses for Storm in the first movie, it just kind of fades away. And so she's just talking in her normal voice in the third movie. Oh, yeah. That really kind of cracked me up. After the first movie, I think it was when they were filming the second movie, Singer's like, don't use the accent. Yeah.
00:59:43
Speaker
Yeah, I think they really should have played up that friendship, like you said, of Jean and Storm. And I think it would have maybe helped the story a little bit. And I don't think they even really do that in the Dark Phoenix movie either. No, not at all. Yeah, it's just basically like she's just there again.
01:00:08
Speaker
Yeah, none of that stuff is touched on at all in either of those movies. And just like this, this, even McKellen, like even McKellen just seems, again, he tries to do the best he can with what he's given, but he just seems kind of bored with this material in this movie.
01:00:25
Speaker
And I would be too. I feel like the first two, like Magneto's like definitely doing a lot. They're showcasing his powers more. And again, in the second movie, I feel like we see that full force.
01:00:41
Speaker
I just read before we hopped on, I think he was working on the DaVinci Code and then he was also doing some theater in London as well. So I guess some of these scenes, which I couldn't tell, but I guess he had to do some filming in England and then they just kind of super imposed him in the scene, which now reading that and kind of thinking about it, I'm like, that kind of makes sense because in some of those scenes he doesn't seem like he's really connecting with who he's talking to.
01:01:11
Speaker
Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's just he just seems so. And it this this script is is is such a bad treatment of Magneto as a character, because he's just. He just seems very. A lot of the grandeur we got, especially in the second movie, is just completely lost in this one, and he just feels very, very one note in this movie.
01:01:36
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree. It's very one-no. He's just kind of flouncing around in the cape, just like throwing it over his shoulder every two seconds. And he's just kind of making these grand speeches, which Magneto is known to do from time to time. But I mean, that's pretty much all he's doing. Yeah.
01:02:02
Speaker
Well, now one of the big criticisms a lot of people had of this was how they depicted the Phoenix as like an outgrowth of Gene's powers and all that instead of like the cosmic force.
Ethical Dilemmas in the X-Men Universe
01:02:15
Speaker
Now, I don't know about you, but I actually thought that makes sense for the world that's established in these movies because these movies, they're trying to be very grounded and as good as the Dark Phoenix saga is as a story,
01:02:31
Speaker
I do feel that it's not my favorite X-Men story. My favorite X-Men story is actually God Loves Man Kills, because I feel like that really centers that central idea of what the X-Men are about, that conflict between human and mutants, that idea of prejudice and all that. That's what the X-Men is all about. It's fun when the X-Men go off to space, but it has nothing to do with that core concept of what the X-Men are, so I feel like
01:03:00
Speaker
them taking that story idea and then instead it's genes' powers basically going out of control. I think it makes a lot more sense as a way to root in this idea of human mutant relations, this idea of also that whole speech that Xavier gives when he's given the class on mutant ethics, talking about
01:03:23
Speaker
What are the ethics of having these superhuman powers again? That's stuff when i'm like That should really be the driving force behind this movie Because also that scene when the president says to beast, you know, I wonder how democracy can survive When one man can move cities with his mind. These are good questions. These are very good questions and yeah and like when um the civil rights metaphor and the the prejudice metaphor and all that with the x-men it the metaphor only goes so far because eventually you get to a point where
01:03:54
Speaker
whether you're gay or whether you're trans or whether you're black or Hispanic or what, that doesn't give you any extra abilities, right? But if you're a mutant, it's one thing to say, I don't want my kid being taught by a black man or a gay man. It's another thing to say, I don't want my kid being taught by someone who might shoot lasers out of their eyes uncontrollably.
01:04:22
Speaker
Right. There's a very good question to have. I remember in the first movie when Senator Kelly's giving this speech in Congress about mutants, and when he's talking about, here's a girl who can walk through walls, what's to stop her from walking into a bank vault or to anyone's home and taking whatever she wants? That's a good question. There's a real
01:04:46
Speaker
debate to be had about mutant powers and the idea of mutant registration because as a fan, as a reader of this, I get the metaphor there and obviously I side with the X-Men in that and that registration is bad. But in real life, if my neighbor had the ability to blow up a city block, I think that's something the government should probably keep an eye on. Yeah.
01:05:12
Speaker
Yeah, at least just have like some sort of database of like, hey, this person has a stability, we're not taking any action, but just just kind of keep an eye on it. Yeah, yeah. But going back to your point about
01:05:30
Speaker
the Phoenix saga being presented in this way, I think you're right. It does, you know, make sense in this universe. And I think that was a good way to kind of introduce that idea. And of course, now that we have, again, the MCU and the Guardians of the Galaxy really kind of put that in perspective that, you know, these these heroes can go into space and like Infinity War and Endgame after that, obviously, you know,
01:05:59
Speaker
now and then we see them try to attempt it with Dark Phoenix and then it doesn't really work. And they make the same mistake in that trilogy of introducing Jean's powers as she already has the Phoenix Force and then goes and says, oh, she got it from space right after. It was such a weird way to do it because to the life of me, even though I've seen Dark Phoenix now,
01:06:28
Speaker
three or four times and I still can't tell if the Phoenix is gene or if it's this cosmic force because it seems like it's both it's it's such a bizarre way to do it yeah yeah and I and again I think they just made the same mistake that they made as far as
01:06:47
Speaker
using the same writer who is already doing these things for the original trilogy instead of having a fresh set of eyes come in and be like, okay, let's kind of take a better look at this. Yeah. And just some of the direction in this is just really kind of all
Action Scene Analysis
01:07:05
Speaker
over the place. Like that scene when Wolverine goes to the camp, there's that scene where he's fighting, I guess that's supposed to be Spike. And there's this weird kind of tracking shot where
01:07:16
Speaker
where they're running at each other and he's throwing the bones. It's like kind of like this low angle and then you got Wolverine and it's like, he's cutting and it's just like, it looks so bad. I'm just like, every time I watch it, I'm like, this is just so, I hesitate to use the word unartistic, but I can't really think of a better way to say it. It's just, it looks so clumsy. Yeah, and I feel like,
01:07:39
Speaker
I don't feel like we've ever gotten that in the other two movies. Maybe there's some of it, but I feel like it's better shot for the action that you can't really tell. But it's very egregious in some of these shots. And the battle at the end, I think,
01:08:01
Speaker
Uh, you know, it's just, it's just all these mutants running towards the cliques and it's like four or five different, um, you know, copycats of Nightcrawler. Yeah. Thinking like, why is it Nightcrawler in this movie? It's such an, it's such an uncreative fight scene, especially when, now I know we're, we're talking differences of scale here, but if you compare it to like the,
01:08:27
Speaker
the battles in like the Avengers movies, where you see characters using these different abilities, and you get a little bit of that with the X-Men, but not a whole lot. I think honestly, Kitty is probably the one who has, Kitty and Iceman are probably the ones who have the most creative uses of their powers. And even that's not very creative. Yeah. And it's,
01:08:52
Speaker
It's kind of frustrating because for someone like Iceman, like you want to see him like do his little, what do you call like surfing on the ice slide? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the ice slide. Yeah. You want to see him doing those things that we've seen in the comics. And these three movies just kind of establish him as like he doesn't know what he's doing, which I think would have been a better
01:09:20
Speaker
arc for him if they just showed him using his powers a little bit more every time. Yeah. In a more creative use, I guess. Yeah. I mean, it's I'm glad that we did get to see his ice form in this, but it looks. Yeah. I mean, it looks kind of bad, though, but it's still nice that they had attempted to it. And honestly, the best use of his powers was probably in Days of Future Past because we see him ice up. We see him using the ice slide in that. Yeah.
01:09:49
Speaker
And like Colossus, it's so weird because he looks so good in that brief scene in X2. And it just, it looks so cheap in this movie. Yeah, I don't know where, like you said, it was the most expensive superhero movie at the time. And I have no idea where any of the money went. Like it certainly wasn't the effects. Somebody put some money in their pocket. I'm telling you that much right now.
01:10:17
Speaker
Or they paid Sir Ian McKellen a lot of money to just stand in front of a green screen in London. Continuing that, the Dark Phoenix effects too. You've got the Dark Phoenix. You've got this iconic imagery associated with her of the flaming firebird.
01:10:37
Speaker
not once do you ever use it. And it's just like, she's got these black eyes and like these like veiny things and there's just like this, and just like this bright backlight and that's it? Like it's, it was insulting almost. Yeah. And I thought today, like obviously me doing a horror movie podcast, it kind of puts me in this frame of mind, but you know, it looks like something out of,
01:11:06
Speaker
maybe the ring or the grudge or something like that, just kind of that imagery of like scary girl with long hair. It's not a great use. And like you said, it's just such...
01:11:19
Speaker
like that imagery of her popping out of the water and being like I am Phoenix like they really should have played that up a little more especially do it well yeah especially because the last movie ended on that shot where you start to vaguely see the firebird in the water and then you're not going to use it at all in this movie yeah yeah it's a shame I
01:11:42
Speaker
Out of everything, I think that's probably one of the biggest missed opportunities, especially since it is a story centered around the Phoenix. You're not even going to use any sort of fiery effects at all. But even in Dark Phoenix, again, they have the opportunity to do it again. They still don't really do it in Dark Phoenix either. Like you said, they're making the same mistakes.
01:12:05
Speaker
Yeah, and I feel like they do it more in the Apocalypse movie. Yeah, honestly, yeah. That's the only time we ever see her in that kind of like Firebird Phoenix form. And then it disappears for 10 years. Because those movies are 10 years apart. Yeah, like I guess she just never uses her powers again. It's so frustrating. Yeah. They do my girl Jean so dirty all the time. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah.
01:12:34
Speaker
And again, and like you said, Famke Janssen is she gives such a good performance in these movies. And it's just it's so disappointing that we never got to see because one of the biggest through lines of that Dark Phoenix story is that Scott and Jean relationship like that anchors that story so much. And it's just like that is all completely gone in this movie because you don't
01:12:58
Speaker
Because you kill off Scott like first chance you get and then you just have it with with Logan And it just doesn't work the same way. It doesn't have that same emotional resonance
01:13:08
Speaker
Yeah, and I think if Scott was kept alive and maybe it was, like, I think that works better as a love triangle, obviously, just based on the history of the comics. Instead of the Ice Man, Kitty, Rogue love triangle, I think they should have just played with that. But I think you mentioned a little bit with the conversation about Superman Returns, like James Marsden is in that movie.
01:13:37
Speaker
So obviously that's part of the reason why you know he's killed off so early, but it's such a shame like I feel like I feel like a better way to end this is having Cyclops be the one that's like Obviously killing off Jean or saving her in some way I think one of the biggest sins especially now that we can look back on all these x-men movies as a whole I
01:14:03
Speaker
There are two big sins about these movies. First off is there's a lot of people involved who do not care much about the source material. Like you watch the MCU movies and you can have their legitimate criticisms to be had about those movies. There are questions to be raised about some of the decisions they made. But one thing you cannot deny is that
01:14:28
Speaker
the people involved in those movies, they care about the source material. There's a definite affection for that source material you can see in those movies. Same thing with, you mentioned Sam Raimi's Spider-Man. Same thing with that. There's a lot of questionable decisions Sam Raimi made in that original trilogy. But that love of Spider-Man, that affection for the source material, still
01:14:53
Speaker
rips off the screen in every single frame of it. These movies, you can tell they're made by people who did not care about the source material. Yeah.
01:15:05
Speaker
And I think even right down to just putting the X-Men in just plain black suits, which I know kind of references, I believe it's the ultimate timeline kind of for the late 90s, early 2000s, right? Well, kind of. We're kind of dealing with the chicken and egg situation here because the movies came out before the ultimate books did.
01:15:26
Speaker
Oh, okay. But I mean, I understand putting the X-Men in black leather. I'm a bit of an apologist for that. Like, I'm not saying it's the best idea, but I'm saying I can justify it more than I can if you were trying to do this with like, you know, say Spider-Man or the Avengers, because the X-Men are a team, this whole idea of them being kind of like this search and rescue organization.
01:15:51
Speaker
That works for what the X-Men are, you know, them being this school, you know, having these training kids and all that. All of that kind of fits together with like this.
Costume Design and Future MCU Integration
01:16:02
Speaker
And especially at the time period, right? Because you got to remember, this is 2000 that that first movie came out. And up until that point, like the last big superhero movies before this were Batman and Robin and Spawn, which were both, you know, terrible.
01:16:21
Speaker
you know, and so like, and especially with like the gaudiness and all that. So there was a huge backlash to the idea of making things too superheroy. I think like at that time, the audience wouldn't have really been ready for that. X-Men serves as kind of a, it serves as a nice transitional movie to get people more interested in the superhero stuff. So I can understand why they went with the black leather at the time. I think it made sense for the time period. I'm not saying they should always do it, but I think it makes sense for,
01:16:50
Speaker
what they were doing at the time and the kind of environment they were facing. And this idea of we want to change the public perception of superhero movies as not being something that looks goofy, but as something that looks serious. And then they did like, I say this, you know, X-Men walk so Spider-Man could run, right? Because you went from the X-Men movies with the black leather and the superhero ideas in kind of a ground. And then you go to Spider-Man where he's in the classic costume, he's swinging around and people buy into it.
01:17:20
Speaker
And I think that's, so I'm a defender of the black leather costumes. I don't think they're great. I still think, you know, I do think that when they do reboot the X-Men, they should give them more comics, accurate costumes, but I understand it for the timeframe they were facing.
01:17:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You bring up some good points. I kind of forgot, you know, 22 years later, you kind of, especially at MCU, we've been so spoiled that like watching it now, you're like, why did they put them in black leather? It clearly doesn't work. Well, it does work, but you know, it's okay.
01:17:55
Speaker
But for me, I would rather, you know, obviously see the the kind of colorful. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that's it. It's a especially now like you look at them, especially it was a weird choice because at the end of Apocalypse, they give the X-Men those costumes and then in Dark Phoenix, they completely do away with them. And I just didn't understand what was the point of that.
01:18:14
Speaker
um so frustrating but now but now we're at a point where people are willing to accept this stuff so you can have like the avengers in these more colorful costumes you can have the justice league and all that and when we get the x-men back i mean you know we saw in multiverse of madness we had they had professor x on the hover chair so i think when they do get around to having more x-men stuff i think we'll see the more comics accurate costumes come back
01:18:39
Speaker
Although, and I will die on this hill, I do not think Wolverine should wear the mask. I friggin' hate that mask. It's just, I think he's, I think that character's got such an iconic look without the mask that you don't need it.
01:18:54
Speaker
Yeah, and I would say Wolverine in these movies, I feel like they treat with such care. And, you know, and he's pretty accurate to the comics in the sense of like, you know, the kind of ruggedness. Yeah, yeah. The jeans, the wife beater tank and, you know, the leather jacket or whatever. So
01:19:16
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely agree with you. They shouldn't do the mask. And I think it would look kind of ridiculous on screen. I think so too. Yeah. Probably. But yeah, it'll be interesting to see what they do. My hope is that they kind of treat the Dark Phoenix saga kind of like how they did the Infinity saga and kind of build it up and incorporate the Hellfire Club and incorporate maybe some of those
01:19:46
Speaker
the cosmic aspects in Guardians of the Galaxy and such. And I think that it's kind of laying that groundwork, but yeah, I don't know. What storylines do you think that they should do for the MCU? Well, I want to get to that, but one thing I want to say, because I said there were two big sins that these movies had. The first one was about the comic, the lack of
01:20:06
Speaker
Faithfulness the comics or the lack of people involved who actually cared about the comics the second biggest sin of these movies is They forget that the strength of the X-Men has always been that ensemble nature and like you said very accurately they focus a lot on Wolverine in these movies and then in the later movies they focus a lot on Professor X and Magneto and it's just and it's
01:20:31
Speaker
at the expense of everything else. There's so much focus on those three characters. The Dark Phoenix story only works, again, if you have that emotional resonance of the Jean Scott relationship. Without that, that story doesn't work. You can't do
01:20:52
Speaker
Dark Phoenix where Jean is basically a supporting character in her own Jean and Scott are supporting characters in their own big romance romantic tragedy and Then the store and then the heart of the story is still about Wolverine and Wolverine or Professor X and Magneto. It doesn't work that way Yeah, yeah, and I think I think
01:21:14
Speaker
making it a two-part film so that they can kind of flesh out everything, including those aspects of Wolverine and Magneto and Professor X. I think it would have...
01:21:27
Speaker
boated well as a two-parter, but again, you know, this was before, you know, I feel like Harry Potter kind of started that trend of doing, you know, their last film is kind of like a big two-parter, and, you know, like, Hunger Games did that, and I think Twilight did it too. You know, some of those movies were better off split into two parts. Yeah, exactly, yeah. But again, it was before the time. Well, yeah, it's the same thing with Dark Phoenix. I mean, you first had to have a movie establishing
01:21:58
Speaker
what the Phoenix is, how it comes to Gene, how Gene deals with that power, and then you do the corruption in the second movie. That's really, I mean, honestly, I think the best way to do an X-Men.
01:22:09
Speaker
to do the X-Men now would be to do like, because the strength of the X-Men has always been those soap opera dynamics, those character interactions. It's hard to do that in a two or even three hour movies set a few years apart. But what you could do, and I think this would probably be the best thing to do, is first off, I'd have solo Wolverine movies. I think Wolverine, I'd have him come in for like some of these X-Men stuff, but I think
01:22:37
Speaker
save like the big Wolverine centric stuff for his own stories. He can obviously he can anchor a franchise on his own. And there's so much stuff you can explore there, especially now that we have Madripoor in the MCU that I love Madripoor in the comics, there's so much stuff you could do with Wolverine and Madripoor. Yeah, we've got The Hand in the movies in the MCU. Now you could do stuff with that too. All that stuff would be a lot better explored in solo Wolverine movies. But honestly, in if you're looking at the X-Men as a franchise, I think
01:23:07
Speaker
What you do is you have TV shows like on Disney Plus or something, have like six to nine episode seasons or something and then cap them off with movies. I think it's probably the best way to do it. So you have these character dynamics, you get to see the characters interact, you get to have them go up against, you know,
01:23:29
Speaker
you know, some of these other different villains, so we don't have to have Magneto in every goddamn movie. And you can explore things like, because you don't need a big two-hour blockbuster movie to tell God Loves Man Kills. You could easily do that over the course of a season of TV. I think it would probably be better served over the course of a season of TV. And then you say something like Dark Phoenix Saga for a movie is really, I think, how you do that.
01:24:00
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. And even like Days of Future Past could probably be a good story. Oh, yeah. And I think the film version of that could
01:24:13
Speaker
I have thoughts about Kitty Pride being, you know, the, yes. That was so weird, yeah. Yeah, yeah. She can face through time. Yes, she can face through time somehow. Okay, cool, great. But yeah, I think that storyline would be better served as a TV show. Well, I mean, I think, did you ever watch the Heroes TV series?
01:24:41
Speaker
on NBC. Oh, yeah, it's it's been a long time. But yeah, but that was that's a good example of like that verse. They dealt a lot with like the future stuff and all that in there. And I feel like one of the biggest one of my biggest issues with days I love Days of Future Past is a movie. I want to say love. I like it a lot. Yeah, but it's
01:25:01
Speaker
One of the things that I felt was like the biggest weakness is they spend so much time in the 70s era where I think the future time period was so much more interesting. And I wanted to see more about how we get from the end of the Wolverine to this time period in days of future past.
01:25:16
Speaker
And I would have been so much more interested to see them explore that world, but they don't have enough time and they got to put most of the focus on the stuff in the 1970s. And I feel like if you had a TV show, you could really dig into a lot of that. You can do episodes that are set completely in the future and all of that stuff. And it'd be, yeah, that would make a great season of TV.
Exploring Future X-Men Storylines
01:25:39
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Especially because when you look at that original story, it's not even that much of a big budget affair. We think of it now as one of the most iconic X-Men stories, but it's not like Dark Phoenix levels of spectacle. It's just the Brotherhood trying to kill a senator and that's it. Yeah, pretty much.
01:26:03
Speaker
I think it would be cool and maybe split it up into two seasons. And then like the kind of end cap or cliffhanger of that first season of it would be them killing the senator. And then it kind of goes into the crazy future time period and then them trying to fix it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You could do a lot of stuff with that.
01:26:28
Speaker
If you ever saw Wolverine and the X-Men, the TV series, they had also done a lot of stuff with the future as well. And when they were planning on doing a second season, they were gonna do the Age of Apocalypse. That's something else you could play with over a season of TV or so.
01:26:44
Speaker
Absolutely. Another storyline kind of piggybacking off of the Phoenix saga is them eventually doing, I think it's Avengers versus X and timeline where, you know, like Cyclops and Emma Frost and all them get, I think they're the Phoenix five or something. Right, yeah, yeah. I think that would be really cool as like,
01:27:10
Speaker
like an NCAP movie for the X-Men. I think that would be cool. I think it'd be cool, but I think it's something that I think that's something that's gotta come like 10 years down the line. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was my next point. I was like, they gotta get the Phoenix Saga right first. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, at this point we don't have very big hopes. Right, yeah.
01:27:29
Speaker
I mean um well also I think one of the things that the MCU, I thought a lot about how the MCU should introduce mutants. I know everybody is saying like oh it's the multiverse just bring the, I think that's just such a lazy way of doing it. I think and I think based on what we've seen now, I've had this idea since before but based on what we've seen in WandaVision now, I think this is much more likely is that mutants have always existed in some form and we kind of get a little bit more of that because
01:27:57
Speaker
if you've seen World Wakanda Forever, Namor says that, you know, I'm a mutant. He uses he specifically says he's, you know, announcing himself as Marvel's first mutant. And the end of Ms. Marvel, right, they have that cliffhanger where they say like, your powers are a mutation. It's not, you know, so there's there's we know that mutants exist now and they've existed. So I think my say is like mutants have existed for a while in small numbers. And then in WandaVision, we saw that the
01:28:27
Speaker
the infinity stone didn't necessarily give her her powers because there's a pretty obvious hint that she had had them before when she was a little kid. So there's this idea that I think the infinity stones have been able to kickstart mutation, especially because now we've had, you know, three snaps on earth. So all that cosmic energy flowing through the earth, I think it's very easy to say like that's jump started mutation. So what I would say is that
01:28:54
Speaker
for all these years, you've had Xavier and Magneto on Krakoa gathering mutants in secret, maybe with Nick Fury's help or something like that. Now there's been a sudden explosion of mutants. So now they're appearing everywhere. And so now that's bringing them out into the open. Yeah, yeah, I think that would be a really cool way to
01:29:14
Speaker
to bring that in and I'm glad that they're kind of slowly introducing that idea and bringing up like WandaVision and Multiverse of Madness. I feel like the Scarlet Witch that we've seen so far is kind of a better depiction in a way of the craziness of Phoenix than these two movies. Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah.
01:29:42
Speaker
Because Scarlet Witch, in a way, is kind of the same kind of tragic character as Jean Grey, in a way, whenever she gets the Phoenix Force. So the two of them are kind of one and the same in that regard, in some ways. So I thought that was funny, that in Multiverse of Madison, I'm like, wow, this is very much a Phoenix storyline. Very similar ideas, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. OK.
Reflections on X-Men: The Last Stand and Casting Speculations
01:30:10
Speaker
Josh, do you have any final things to say about The Last Stand? I think I've pretty much tapped out on what I had to say about it. Yeah, same here. I mean, again, in this rewatch, I'm not as critical as it probably would have been had we talked about it 10 years ago.
01:30:29
Speaker
Overall, it's a fun watch, even though some of the parts of this movie are kind of boring, like the big grand speeches from certain characters. But overall, it's a good watch. It's not the greatest way to end this trilogy.
01:30:50
Speaker
I think, I mean, for me, it's still Kelsey Grammer is still the best. I thought of this then, I think now Kelsey Grammer is still the best thing about this movie. I mean, if you, if you've seen this movie, and you know, you're wondering if you should watch it again, I'd say honestly, just you know,
01:31:04
Speaker
See if you can find a super cut on YouTube of all the beast scenes probably best. Yeah. Cause yeah, it's just, he's, he's so good in this movies and it seems like, and I'm hoping that when we do get, if we get beast in the MCU that we'll get more of this beast and not so much the Nicholas Holton, you know, stereotypical, you know, shy nerd milksop that he played.
01:31:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Let's hope that they do that. And bring back somebody like Rebecca Romain. Thank you. My brain.
01:31:44
Speaker
Yeah, I'm really tired. Sorry, I've been moving a lot. Anyway, yeah, Rebecca Romaine as Mystique was great in this trilogy. So I feel like bringing back her or maybe somebody like her that can achieve this kind of like acrobatics and like sensuality of Mystique, I think is a great way to go. I mean, honestly, I think recasting is probably the best thing to do because especially inventory.
01:32:12
Speaker
I mean, I know everybody wants to see Hugh Jackman back and I know he's going to be in Deadpool 3, but honestly, I think there's also rumors that they're going to be bringing in a bunch of other former Marvel actors for Secret Wars. And that's fine for that, you know, kind of like DC did with Christ on Infinite Earths. That's cool to bring them in for like one last hurrah type thing, but I think
01:32:33
Speaker
Overall, it's better if we just kind of like recast because I mean, Jackman's in his 50s now and he can't keep he can't keep doing that to his body. Let the guy let the guy take a break.
01:32:45
Speaker
Yeah, let let him play some other characters once like this. This poor man has been, you know, beaten the freaking Wolverine horse to death. Yeah, like. And I was I mean, Logan is such a great movie. Oh, yeah. But I was so happy when they were like, OK, we're putting it to rest.
01:33:04
Speaker
no more like and even with Patrick Stewart at that point too it's like he he was doing it for so long it's like how much more can you really do with the character well yeah i mean it was it was so cool to see him in multiverse of madness but the entire time i'm watching i'm just thinking like this poor guy needs to take a break like he's just this this he's just too old for this role anymore now yeah and
01:33:28
Speaker
You know, obviously it was just more so like a cameo thing, but just to bring them on for like a whole two seconds and Wanda ripped some apart, it's just so sad, you know? I did love that they had the little X-Men guitar riff though when he came in. Oh, yeah. That was just like, mwah, just kiss. Well, actually, that's a good thing to end on. Do you have any ideas for anyone who you would like to see play the X-Men when the MCU brings them in? Oh.
01:34:02
Speaker
I don't know. I have a feeling that they're going to try to cast Yang just so that they can have the longevity of the franchise. But I almost want to say bring in some actors that are in their 30s and 40s, kind of like they did with the 2000 movie, and kind of bring them in when they're a little older.
01:34:24
Speaker
and kind of do what they did introducing Tom Holland as Spider-Man like we kind of know the origin of X-Men at this point that we don't really need to kind of do like a like a first class per se. Right. Of like an origin story so kind of hoping they go that route. I'm trying to think there's
01:34:48
Speaker
I mean, I don't like some of the names that we think of in here. I mean, some of the names I've seen floated around like I've seen people talk. These may sound weird, but I've seen people talking about Daniel Radcliffe or Zac Efron. And honestly, looking up some photos of them, what they look like now, Radcliffe is pretty scruffy looking. You could probably do it.
01:35:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, honestly. And hell, maybe bring in Channing Tatum, but maybe not as Gabbie. Maybe not as Gabbie, yeah. I don't think that was a good choice even when he was younger. Yeah, yeah.
01:35:22
Speaker
I don't know, maybe him as Colossus or, you know, any kind of like beefcake that just insert him as Colossus. But yeah, do you have any kind of wish list or anything? Not really. I mean, I think I do hope they go younger, I think. It might be interesting to see Fassbender back as Magneto. I think that might be the one person I would probably want to see come back.
01:35:51
Speaker
Yeah, cuz he's he's at now right now He's probably at the right age where you can have him give him, you know, you know bleach his hair or something and have him play magneto going forward I think he'd probably I Think he probably he could probably pull that off pretty convincingly now more more so than he did then and he was the best part of those of those other movies too, so Absolutely
01:36:15
Speaker
Yeah, and it'll be interesting to see what they do as far as the Magneto Scarlet Witch relationship. And they probably will forego that, I imagine. I'm not so sure because, you know, I know they they undid it in the comics, but they only undid it in the comics because at the time it was because Fox had the rights to the X-Men and, you know, Ron Perlman was in charge of Marvel. He had kind of like this feud with them, so he's like,
01:36:44
Speaker
No, no X-Men, no mutant stuff related to the Avengers at all. So it was it was that whole kind of. And so that was like this very kind of petty idea. One second. Yeah, there's this. And so I think and like they've kind of I'm not sure if you're up to date on the the X-Men comics now, but they had done the trial of Magneto storyline. And in that, you know,
01:37:08
Speaker
Wanda had said basically, you know, even though you're not my biological father, I still think of you as my father. So there's kind of like this there. I think they're kind of starting to reestablish those familial bonds between them. So I think that now that Marvel has all the rights to it, I think that when they bring in Magneto, they will go down that route. I don't expect them not to.
01:37:29
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, obviously looking back at Age of Ultron, like, I wish they wouldn't have killed off Quicksilver so quickly. I know, yeah. Especially like he was, I love ATJ as Quicksilver. I thought that was such perfect casting. Yeah. Well, I guess we'll see what they do with it.
Podcast Promotions and Collaborations
01:37:52
Speaker
Well, Josh, thanks so much for coming on. Why don't you tell people where they can find you?
01:37:58
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me on. You can find me at Super Scary podcast on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. You can follow me on my regular socials at glossy underscore not matt.
01:38:16
Speaker
Yeah, that's pretty much it. We release new episodes on my podcast every Monday, wherever you find your podcasts. I did an episode with Perry in January, so that's my first episode of my second season.
01:38:31
Speaker
We do a lot of good stuff over there. Yeah, check us out. Yeah. So I think based on the schedule, this episode, when people listening that this will be in March, so you can go back and listen to the Morbius discussion we had. Or you can also go back to the episode I did on here when we talked about Morbius with John Bracek. So you can go back and listen to that too and pair them up together.
01:38:55
Speaker
Yeah, pair those two together and it'll probably be more entertaining than the actual film. Yeah, yeah, probably. All right, Josh, thanks so much for coming on and more than welcome to come back on anytime you like.
01:39:08
Speaker
Awesome. Thank you so much. See you soon. Thank you. That does it for this episode of Superhero Cinephiles. Superherocinephiles.com is the website, SuperCinemapod on Twitter and Instagram. And if you subscribe to our Patreon page, then you get these episodes a week in advance. Plus, you get access to the Superhero Cinephiles Book Club podcast, where we talk about comics and graphic novels, all that fun stuff. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.
01:39:34
Speaker
If you enjoy the Superhero Cinephiles, then you'll also love my companion podcast, the Superhero Cinephiles Book Club. All my Patreon subscribers get access to this exclusive podcast where I review superhero comics and graphic novels. Not sure what comics you want to read next or what you should dive into? I've got you covered on that. I'll be doing reviews, recommendations, and also talking to you about useful entry points.
01:39:54
Speaker
If you're interested in reading some comics but don't know where you should start, plus you'll get access to all episodes of the main show a week before everyone else. On all of this for as little as just a dollar a month, all you have to do is go to patreon.com slash supercinemahot and you can sign up at any subscription amount to get started. Thanks so much for your support and please don't forget to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:40:38
Speaker
Thank you for listening and as always good night. Good evening. God bless.