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Justice League: War
206 Plays3 years ago
Fellow superhero fiction author and podcaster Henry "Young" Shel is our guest this week to talk about Justice League: War, the direct-to-video animated film adaptation of Geoff Johns and Jim Lee's inaugural Justice League story-arc. Henry explains why this is his favorite of the DC animated films, while Perry brings some context from the comics.
Visit Capes & Mics for Henry's podcast and writing and follow him on Instagram.
Help support the show by buying or renting this movie on Amazon.
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This month, we're teaming up with Technically A Conversation, a podcast for curious people by curious people. Head on over to their site to listen to conversations on all sorts of interesting conversations, from urban legends, the supernatural and the occult, science, espionage, and so much more.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Promotion
00:00:00
Speaker
Greetings, we're technically a conversation, a podcast for curious people by curious people. Every week we take turns presenting a new topic and the other host has no idea what the topic will be. We strive to educate in a way that's loose and fun. Our topics are all over the place from light and funny to dark and sometimes spooky.
00:00:22
Speaker
Some of the topics we've covered include urban legends, civil rights activists, vampires, pop culture icons, the supernatural and occult, spies and espionage, science and astronomy, and other weird and random things.
00:00:38
Speaker
If any of these topics interest you, give our podcast a shot. Listen and subscribe at TechnicallyAConversation.com, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. Parental advisory, we might use strong language.
Superhero Culture and Guest Introduction
00:01:10
Speaker
Yeah, I noticed, but fire's no problem for me. As I was saying, Green Lantern can do anything. Except shut up, apparently. Wow, someone forgot to take their true blood tonight. I'm not a vampire. Seriously? I thought with the darkness and the vanishing, then the what, super strength? No. Can you fly? In a plane.
00:01:37
Speaker
Wait, you're not just some guy in a bat costume, are you? Are you freaking kidding me? What? Nobody asked you to prom, so now you dress as a bat and prowl around your parents' basement? What's this do? Huh? No buttons. I assume it works off concentration. How'd you do that?
00:02:07
Speaker
You weren't concentrating. You won't do that again. Unless I want to. That's it! Let's rumble, spooky!
00:02:37
Speaker
Pull fast. We need more info. Oh crap, that's a bomb and he just armed it. Let her win. Poor dark side. Welcome to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. I'm your host Perry Constantine and welcoming another guest, a fellow author, and that is Henry Young Shell. Henry, how are you doing today?
00:03:06
Speaker
I'm doing good, man. I'm super excited to be on a superhero podcast, discussing superheroes. It's a real treat for me. It's a real treat. Yeah. Well, when I saw you on the Podmatch website, I saw you were a superhero author. I'm like, well, I got to try and have this guy on. He's a superhero author myself. So why don't we start there? Tell people a little bit about yourself and what you do.
Comics, Hip Hop, and Writing Journey
00:03:28
Speaker
Well, as you said, I'm an author of superhero fiction. I came to superhero writing books from by way of hip hop music, believe it or not. So originally I was a recording artist for my, you know, probably 10, 15 years.
00:03:43
Speaker
but I also had a passion for comics all the way through and I'm not sure if you're listeners nor you're quite aware of how much, you know, how much big name hip-hop artists are influenced by comic books from Run DMC to Method Man who is the host of Marvel Method podcast as we speak today. So yeah, hip-hop and comics have a symbiotic relationship for quite some time and, you know, probably about
00:04:10
Speaker
I want to say a dozen years ago, I took a leap of faith and I got into that world. I published my first superhero books for kids called Power Blast Kids and the rest is history. I never looked back. I knew that there are some hip-hop artists, like obviously, I think like the Wu-Tang Clan also. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:04:33
Speaker
Yeah. And some other ones obviously too that I've heard of, but I wasn't aware that it was, it was that widespread. I thought it was, those were like outliers. So that's pretty interesting. So tell me about how you got into comic books in the first place then.
00:04:45
Speaker
Well, comic books specifically, I'll be honest with you, I never really got into reading or collecting comic books, especially the serialized, you know, week to week, you have your full list type of thing. I never got into that. I came to superheroes and the culture very late in my
00:05:06
Speaker
in my life so I would say I was probably, I was in my mid to late 20s before I even started really getting passionate about it. So I tend to lean towards the actual movies and the TV shows and the first
00:05:22
Speaker
The first TV show that really got me into it was the 90s X-Men show. I'm not sure if you're familiar with that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was my gateway. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yes. Yeah. That one. Oh, man. That just totally took me by the heartstrings and I was hooked. Like from there, I just got super passionate about, you know, comics or superheroes in general. And I love the thing about that particular show that hooked me was the fact that it was cartoon and it was superheroes.
00:05:50
Speaker
But the subject matter that they were dealing with was real. Like immediately the first thing that jumped out at me was the relationship between the love relationships that seem to be prevalent front and center. And it wasn't like a weird thing or it wasn't like a side note thing.
00:06:05
Speaker
front and center the relationship between gambit and rogue and then the the love triangle between wolverine and gene gray and and um cyclops and i was like i was blown away that you could talk about mature things like that in comics or superheroes and yeah from there was just
00:06:22
Speaker
We actually just about a week ago recorded an episode all about that subject, the idea of superhero romance. So by the time when we're recording this now, it hasn't been released yet, but it'll be out in a few weeks. So keep an eye out for that. I'm a romance author to come on and talk. Oh, for real.
00:06:40
Speaker
And we did spend a bit of time talking about the gambit and rogue stuff and the soap opera aspect of superheroes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I'm super excited to hear that. And I'm definitely can't wait to listen to it. Um, yeah, that's my jam as a, as a, as a writer. Um, that's what I've leaned into from day one, as I, um, my, my whole brand or my whole thing is, is about, uh, about
00:07:06
Speaker
Hearts and Powers is my current project that I'm dealing with. But for my entire career as a writer, all the stuff I've written is all romantic superhero or romantic modern fantasy. I'm a romantic at heart from the time I was born. So even as a recording artist, I used to be the one rapper amongst my peers who was always writing hip-hop love songs from day one. It was my DNA. It was like I was the one man in the crew that was all about
00:07:31
Speaker
speaking to the ladies and speaking to the fears of the heart. So I just followed that right through into my writing for superhero fiction. And yeah, my current project I'm dealing with is called Hearts and Powers. It's going to be it's going to be available next month late next month. I'm just putting the finishing touches on it right now.
00:07:48
Speaker
So we're recording this in May, but this episode will be dropping about a month later. So this will be coming out at the end of June. So I think when exactly is it coming out? Do you have an exact date? I don't have an exact date right now as an independent creator. There's no machine behind me. So everything's approximate. Things change on a dime. But I've been working on this. It's been a labor of love for years. And I'm really excited that I'm right at the finish line right now.
00:08:16
Speaker
It's definitely going to be available next month, June 2022. I'm just not sure exactly the specific date, but I'm just putting the finishing touches
Publishing and Creative Process
00:08:23
Speaker
on it now. But as you mentioned that if listeners of this podcast wanted to get the exact date and get the information, they can listen to my podcast, Capes and Mikes, which is available on every streaming platform, including where they're listening to this song, whether it be Spotify or Apple Music. And it basically, my podcast, chronicles my journey
00:08:40
Speaker
of being an independent creator producing hip-hop music and putting that out as well as my superhero fiction and on the podcast from week to week you get updates and they'll be able to hear exactly when and where they can get
00:08:52
Speaker
The Hearts and Powers Project, which is the current project that's about to be released. Very cool. Now you mentioned there that you got into writing superhero fiction through hip hop. So how did that transition happen? Was it just because of the fact that so many hip hop artists you listened to were superhero fans or was there another reason that caused you to make that jump? That jump, yeah. That's a very good question and I like it because
00:09:22
Speaker
On the surface it does seem like a jump to be honest like using that terminology makes sense and I'll actually tell you the truth, it actually was a more indirect route so I wasn't even thinking about hip hop or my, you know, my involvement in recording music had nothing to do with me.
00:09:38
Speaker
me starting to write. It actually came from me becoming a father. I got married at around age 26 and I got had a ready-made family so my wife at the time had two kids, two boys who were you know a grade school age. At the same time I had also made the fool's decision that well if I'm getting married and I'm having a family I'm too old to be chasing this hip-hop dream so let's put that stuff aside. No more music, no more
00:10:05
Speaker
you know, acting like a young thug, so to speak. So, but what I didn't realize in that whole process, those two decisions that
00:10:15
Speaker
Abandoning music left a huge void as a creative soul. I'm a creative person. I didn't really realize that until I got married and went through that process. I thought it was just, I had a passion for music, but when I got rid of it, it was like, I nearly died inside. I had no outlet creatively. So after about a year, I realized I need to do something else. So I said, let me try writing. Cause all my life, teachers, parents, family, friends always said, yo, you're a good writer. So I was like, oh, maybe let me try it in my hand at writing.
00:10:44
Speaker
And if I'm going to try, it's a nice, mature thing that I could do as a growing up, a nice growing up thing to do with kids. But if I'm going to do it, I'm going to do something that I like. So I was like, well, what am I passionate about? What makes me excited? Well, superheroes get me excited. Action, you know what I mean? I'm a man.
00:11:02
Speaker
Fast forward, probably about five years into that journey, because I didn't just pick up a pen when I made the decision and started putting out books. I had to just learn, you know, any other craft. But about five years into it, my step sons at that time were a little bit older around, you know, the reading age, eight to 12 years old. They were not very interested in reading at all. And of course, that's a very important thing that they need to be able to do.
00:11:27
Speaker
That's the thing that actually pushed me into publishing and really getting book stories out there. I was like, well, I want to write, get my my young boys interested in reading, get them excited about reading. And if I'm writing, maybe I can maybe I can write some stuff that will get them interested. And that's pretty much how it started. That was the genesis of me becoming an actual published author.
00:11:48
Speaker
I decided I came up with, as I said, my very first series, The Power Blast Kids, which was centered around kids superheroes in a world where only kids were superheroes. No adults, no grown people had superhuman abilities, only kids. And it was a real fun, comedic type of take on the superhero genre centered around kids. And the kids loved it. And yeah, yeah, that was it. Awesome. So how long have you been publishing now?
00:12:17
Speaker
Uh, that was 2007, 2008. So we're looking at roughly just over a dozen years, actually no more than that. Yeah. Yeah. We, uh, 15 years. I also started around 2007 myself. So we've been in the game for the same amount of time. Cool. If I can ask you, did you publish through like online platform or like direct, like
00:12:38
Speaker
direct like do you are you familiar with lulu or yeah yeah when i when i started out that was uh that was pre kindle because the kindle came out in 2010 so um back then it was pretty much it was either vanity presses which you know they charge like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah or it was lulu which at that point it was like 30 bucks to publish so right yeah i went i published my first books through lulu uh my first one was through lulu and then after that
00:13:04
Speaker
um create space came out after that and then my after that I started going through create space and then um and then after that I discovered about the kindle and all that then I started publishing uh through kindle and and yeah so now I've got about 30 novels out but I yeah my head just exploded holy
00:13:27
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, just even from the moment you said create space and you started talking, I'm like, okay, I definitely need to pick your brain. Cause you're a light years ahead of me, even though, you know, time-wise we're in the same zone, but yeah, you're compared to me, uh, uh, you're a prolific, like you're, you're, you're a giant in this game.
00:13:48
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. Well, everyone's journey is different. Like there have been people who started after me and who have been far more successful and have published even far more than I have. So right. Yeah, there's there's yeah, there's some there's some monster prolific writers out there that even. Yeah, yeah.
00:14:04
Speaker
Wow. But yeah, we can talk more about that later. But now so you you said you had the the Kids Hero series and now you've got the the more romantic series. Are these are these connected? Are they all in like the same world or are they OK? OK, so the short answer to that is yes.
00:14:24
Speaker
But they're not directly related so it's not like power blast kids directly interact with my main characters in this grown up world of hearts and powers the hearts and powers is really a hundred percent grown up soap superhero soap opera targeted.
00:14:41
Speaker
and written from the perspective of Gromas. It's actually two female lead characters in their late 20s and early 30s. So it's a completely different thing, but they are related in the sense that they exist in the same universe. They exist in the same city that my main character is existing, which is called Saga City for Hearts and Powers.
DC Animated Movies Discussion
00:15:05
Speaker
The Power of Blast Kids series is a series that's created by
00:15:09
Speaker
other characters that are in that city okay yeah okay very cool all right uh so now let's uh let's start talking about this movie now we're today we're talking about justice league war which um came out in uh 2014 uh this was part of this uh it was an interesting time because this was well i think technically the start of it was the the flashpoint paradox movie where they had kind of
00:15:36
Speaker
set up this new kind of like DC animated universe. Then after that they had Batman, Son of Batman, which was the adaptation of Grant Morrison's first arc on the Batman comic books that brought in Damian Wayne.
00:15:51
Speaker
And then they had released around the same time, not sure exactly how the timeline works, what the order is, but then they also had Justice League War. And there have been a bunch of other movies in this series. There's been, after this came Throne of Atlantis. There were a bunch of the Batman movies like Bad Blood, Justice League versus Teen Titans and The Death of Superman and Reign of the Superman. And now they pretty much closed the book on it with the recent
00:16:19
Speaker
Justice League dark movie apocalypse war so that really kind of like concluded this universe and closed it all up but they had a lot it was like the same art style all throughout pretty much all the same voice actors I believe and it was very heavily influenced by the new 52 and right this one especially very much influenced by Jeff Johns and Jim Lee's first story arc on uh on Justice League okay um
00:16:46
Speaker
So that's kind of the background of this. So what was the first time you ended up watching this movie? I think I saw it probably about, I didn't see it when it first came out. It was like a few years after. It had to have been there. I think so. I think it was like 2015, 2016. I stumbled upon it somewhere and that was the first time I'd watched it. Yeah. How about you?
00:17:05
Speaker
I definitely saw it when it actually came out, like the year when it came out, I would have seen it like within probably no more than a month of it coming out, give or take. Cause I mean, I said it to you offline when our communications for me, when it comes to superhero content, I feel like the DC animated movies are the creme de la creme. They're like the theme of the crop, even better than the live action stuff. So I'm always just on it. So when it came out, I was on it and, um,
00:17:36
Speaker
yeah like for me it was it's probably to this day still my favorite one out of all of them and I love all and I love all the DC animated stuff. As you mentioned this was around that time when that when this came out, it was the beginning of this whole I guess bigger.
00:17:51
Speaker
that they're creating series of movies. But even going back, I would say probably even almost 10 years before that, when they did Batman, Superman, Public Enemies, the first animated version of that, when that came out, I was ridiculously excited and I shared it with my kids at the time. And for me, that was just like a gateway and I just couldn't get enough of the DC animated stuff. So like you said, when this came out, Justice League War, I was right on it, yeah.
00:18:20
Speaker
Were you familiar at all with the comic that it was based on?
00:18:25
Speaker
on the Justice League war, no. Okay. So yeah, yeah, this was a reboot that part of the new 52 where they had kind of rebooted the entire DC universe. And okay, this was like a reboot of the Justice League that Jeff Johns was the writer on Jim Lee was the artist and they kind of established this, these new looks for the characters. So, you know, Superman's got a new costume. Wonder Woman's got a new costume. Wonder Woman has that new costume. Yeah, right.
00:18:52
Speaker
Right, right. Madman's got some slight tweaks to his classic costume. Green Lantern, Flash, Cyborg, Shazam, all of them have like little bit of tweaks here and there. The major difference between these two is that Shazam was not part of the original. Yeah, it was Aquaman instead.
00:19:10
Speaker
Oh, OK. Jeff Johns did do a Shazam backup feature in those comics, though. And then, OK, they kind of like they took Aquaman out and they put them in, which I think was kind of.
00:19:23
Speaker
I think they had done that just because this was still at a time when Aquaman was still kind of considered kind of a joke character by most mainstream audiences. Yeah. So I feel like that's the reason why they did that, which, you know, for me, it's disappointing because I think Aquaman's total badass.
00:19:41
Speaker
Um, he is now for sure. Definitely. Back in the, as far back as the early nineties, like you had, yeah, Peter David was doing an excellent run on Aquaman that made him. Okay. Made him a huge bad-ass, uh, Justice league also to made him a real badass and that, um,
00:19:59
Speaker
So you have to go back and check those stuff for sure. Yeah, definitely. Peter David's Aquaman, Grant Morrison's JLA, amazing comics. But also they had, one thing that Jeff Johns did was he had replaced Martian Manhunter, who was part of the original Justice League lineup and they brought in Cyborg instead, who was originally more of a Teen Titans character. Exactly, yeah, yeah.
00:20:22
Speaker
So that was the big change. And I read the comic book at the time it came out. So, and it's not a bad comic, it's totally okay. It's well-written, it's story, the art's beautiful, anything generally does. But it's, I'm a stickler for the Martian manhunt to go. So the fact that they took him out is one of my biggest sticking points about this.
00:20:48
Speaker
Really? OK. See, I'm just glad I'm I'm glad I'm I'm enjoying this conversation already, just for the fact that you get enlightening me to so much things I didn't know. Like, I had no idea this one is from a comic book to begin with. Like, like how public enemies I knew that was a comic book. Right.
00:21:04
Speaker
when that came out and that's why I was excited about it because it actually was my first graphic novel that I bought when I decided to go in to get passionate about comics and I shared it with my my son and I was like oh my gosh you know that graphic novel I showed you that we read
00:21:19
Speaker
guess what they're doing a movie on so that was that's why i was excited about that but this one now flash forward you know how many years later i had no idea it was a comic book yeah um so you know you don't like how they usually say the book is better than the movie when it comes to books how do you how do you rate it compared to the to the comic book is over um i rate i rate the comic book uh slightly better and okay the main reason is um
00:21:45
Speaker
I feel like Shazam is really kind of tacked on in this. I don't feel like he really adds a lot, whereas Aquaman felt like a much more organic part of the team in the original one. And especially one of my favorite scenes in that series, in the comic, was
00:22:02
Speaker
Green Lantern is going off on Aquaman. He's kind of saying like, oh, well, we can do all this stuff. We got Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern. He's like, what can you do? You're Aquaman. What can you do? You talk to fish? And then Aquaman just turns away, and he just gestures. And sharks leap out of the water and grab a pair of demons out of midair. Yeah. And that just kind of like completely shut Green Lantern up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:22:29
Speaker
So like just for that scene alone alone takes priority. Wow. That's that's really crazy or, but interesting for me to hear because I'm like, as you as you said.
00:22:44
Speaker
Up until these animated movies that came out, these series, I was one of those gay people, too. I just figured that Aquaman is just such a useless character, not to mention wimpy, not really, as you said, badass.
00:23:00
Speaker
That's an interesting take. I didn't realize that they did that in the comics before they did these movies. Although he's not in Justice League War, as you said, the follow-up solo movie that they did for him that came out very shortly after, that was my first introduction into Aquaman the Badass. And you're right, he was ridiculously, he was a fucking badass in that movie. And that movie turned me into a fan. I was like, okay, so you can do
00:23:28
Speaker
good Aquaman and he does he is useful yeah yeah yeah a lot of that is down to um uh i think it was the super friends cartoon because there was yeah and then after that you had uh and then especially in like the 90s like every single stand-up comedian had like a had like a five minute set on why Aquaman was so lame yeah so it became like this real cultural in fact um
00:23:51
Speaker
You know, if you ever look up McSweeney's Aquaman, they've got a, there's a great article they did. It was like called Aquaman King of the Seven Seas has had it with your shit. It's a brilliant piece. Definitely. I gotta look that up. McSweeney's Aquaman.
00:24:07
Speaker
Yeah, it was brilliant. So so for that and DC at the time, the animation division, all of the movie, pretty much all the movies they were putting out at the time were all kind of adaptations of comic books, comics. OK, so because you had the at this point, the.
00:24:25
Speaker
the DCAU stuff that started with Batman the Animated Series and ended with Justice League Unlimited. That was all over by this point. So now they were just kind of putting out these direct-to-video animated features. And at first it was just like adaptations of well-known storylines. So you had lines. Yeah.
00:24:45
Speaker
Like you said, the Superman Batman ones were based on the the Jeff Loeb, the first run he did with Ed McGinnis. And then after that, the one he did with Michael Turner. And then, you know, classic stories, too, like The Dark Knight Returns or
00:25:01
Speaker
And what they had done in a lot of these is they had tried to match the animation and like try to use the animation style to kind of match- From the actual comic style that they had in the comic. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, like how they did Justice League New Frontier when they did that. Right, exactly. That was another one, yeah. They matched exactly with the comic version. Right, with Darwin Cook's style. Yeah, yeah.
00:25:23
Speaker
And it worked really well in some instances. It worked really well with the Superman Batman ones. They did a really good job of matching McGinnis' style and matching Michael Turner's style. Dark Knight Returns, New Frontier, I think those were the ones that did it the best. It was perfect match to the original art.
00:25:46
Speaker
It doesn't quite work so much so well with Justice League War. And I think, and part of the problem is that Jim Lee has such heavy use of rendering in his artwork, like lots of line work, lots of detail work. You can't really do that in animation because the animators will kill themselves. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:26:09
Speaker
that's yeah so so that was that was one of my my sticking points this is that even and even though I understand they can't make it look exactly like Jim Lee style I did think some of the design choices were a little bit weak like I think Superman is
00:26:24
Speaker
He looks too, his face looks too big, his neck looks too big, I thought. I thought he was looking a little bit too bulky for that. And I don't really like that new 52 redesign for Superman. What were some of your thoughts on the style, the animation and the character designs? Well,
00:26:46
Speaker
Again, for me, because I had no idea this was a comic book, I came into a hundred percent like thinking this was just all original content and there was no reference material, right? So from that perspective, like the artwork for me, I just found it all great. Like I love the animation style.
00:27:05
Speaker
I loved the artwork. I loved all the costumes. There was nothing about the visuals that left me wanting something more. It left me disappointed or upset. To me, it was really good. I tend to, when it comes to artwork,
00:27:22
Speaker
I tend to like stuff that looks more modern like when the the new frontier and the or the the stylistic stuff is the super highly stylistic types of artwork I tend to that tends to lose me but when it's that stays in that real modern vein like how it is in Justice League War or even the like you said the the
00:27:42
Speaker
the other ones, the Ed McGinnis style ones. Those ones get me right in my heartstrings. The one thing I didn't like was in terms of costume. I'm not 100% sure I love that version of Wonder Woman's costume, the past version. It's not bad.
00:28:05
Speaker
necessarily 100% dislike it, but I'm not really in love with it either. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I also had a problem with, I thought that the lack of a, of a black outline around the, the S shield on Superman's costume, I felt like it, it made it look muddled. It made it look a little blurry. Whereas suppose if you had a black outline, I think it would have popped a little bit more.
00:28:26
Speaker
Are you sure you're not also an illustrator? Well, I am actually. Oh, there you go. That attention to detail, because I'm like, yo, the average Joe is not even like. No, absolutely. Yeah.
00:28:44
Speaker
But that's serious. Yeah. And those those little details make a difference. Like they do. Yeah. Well, both both consciously in some cases, but also subconsciously or unconsciously to the to the viewer, you know, they don't they don't even know or realize that they're just some right. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:02
Speaker
I mean, and most of the looks, I think I'm fine with. I love Batman. I love, I think Green Lantern looks pretty cool. The Flash too, although I think kind of a little bit too much line work on The Flash, but otherwise, and Shazam too, I think all of their costumes, Cyborg as well, all of them work really well. I think all of them are nice updates. It was mostly,
00:29:22
Speaker
Superman and Wonder Woman for me. And it's not because I'm married to classic looks of those characters. I think what they're doing, I think, I thought even though I've got lots of problems with the Snyder movies, I thought the Superman costume looked great in those. Same thing with Wonder Woman. I think what they've done to the Superman costume on Superman and Lois, the TV show, I think that looks really good too. So I'm not opposed to that, but I think like there are just little tiny details. Like I think the neckline's too high on it and just like the overall,
00:29:50
Speaker
shape of the character is a little too bulky for me for a lot of that. So that was those are superman specifically superman specifically. Yeah. Wonder Woman, it's more the I don't really like the black look in there. I prefer the the blue and the gold. Right.
00:30:07
Speaker
But what were some of the things that you really liked about this movie? Because you said this was your favorite of the DC movies so far. Oh, my gosh. The reason. OK, right out the gate. The reason why it's one of my favorite is two things. One, I love how this movie is basically the origin of them coming together like they don't know each other right off the bat from the very beginning of the movie. They're like all meeting each other.
00:30:31
Speaker
for the first time with the exception I think of Green Lantern and Flash seems to have had already known each other or encountered each other. But like Green Lantern is coming up to Batman and acting like he's the big man on campus and like he's gonna tell Batman what to do or Batman take a backseat to him. And I'm like, it's just so, like I've never seen that dynamic between any of the Justice League and any
00:31:01
Speaker
you know, any interpretation or any medium that I've read, watched or whatever in all my life until this. And it was just very interesting and really fresh for me to see that.
00:31:15
Speaker
Another part that I liked was when Flash shows up for the first time and sees Batman and he's totally fanboying over Batman and Green Lantern is like so, so mad. Like all those types of dynamics with things that were all brand new to me. And I just loved that. One of the things I loved about that scene too is
00:31:36
Speaker
You know, Green Lantern, you know, obviously him and Flash have worked together. He knows his true identity. He calls him Barry, but he seems to be, you know, he seems to have this attitude of, he's like, oh, it's Flash. He's my buddy. He's going to have my back. And then he's band-boying all over Batman. And then, and Green Lantern's like kind of expecting, you know, Batman to treat him like shit. And then, and then he turns around. He's like, he's like, I like your work. You do good work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:04
Speaker
so much I think when you say it when you bring that that uh when you bring that into it um that example it makes me think that to be honest it's just the whole overall uh dynamic relationship dynamics between them all that makes me like this movie so much because it's just so much unexpected uh dynamics between them all because they don't know each other and they're just you know each other in a lot of cases so you're just
00:32:29
Speaker
There's all these different nuances and ways that they react and things they say that I would have never heard in any other version of the Justice League that are sometimes funny, sometimes just totally interesting, like the dynamic again of Green Lantern really thinking he's the shit and having to be slowly brought down a pay to realize, okay, wait.
00:32:51
Speaker
yeah like Batman is the man that is the man like you know what I mean you gotta bow down seeing seeing seeing um both of them Flash and Green Lantern and even Twist and Superman all all fawning over Wonder Woman and all falling all over themselves over Wonder Woman even that alone is just like
00:33:13
Speaker
It makes sense, why doesn't it have been done before it? Like she's the only one in the whole group. She's the only woman and she's a badass and she's hot as hell. So it's only natural that it's one of them, if not all of them are gonna at some point crush on her, you know what I mean? So even seeing that was cool, seeing that dynamic, seeing Superman be a badass for the first time I've ever seen him be a badass.
00:33:39
Speaker
in any of the incarnations of Justice League, that to me, I love. That was refreshing, because that's one of the reasons why he's not my favorite character, and Batman is, because he's just such a boy scout. So it was really nice to see him be like, yo, really, I'm damn near a god.
00:33:58
Speaker
Why are you guys even talking to me? Like, yeah, yeah. See, for me, I don't, me being a Superman fan, I prefer, I'm much more of the Boy Scouts. Boy Scouts, oh, okay, okay. I like the idea of Superman being this guy who, he's just a nice guy who does the right thing just because he can do the right thing. I have always liked that about him.
00:34:18
Speaker
um uh that's always been one of my favorite that that's one of my favorite things about about him so yeah that that the the new 52 and the and also like the the man of steel and all that so those types of approaches they they're very cold to me because they're they take away from what i think that that's that heart the heart of him yeah you're not exactly you're not the first person to say that like when when uh
00:34:41
Speaker
Was it Zack Snyder's Superman? No, so yeah, when that version of him came out, I think a lot of people, I heard that a lot of people were saying that like, it's missing that heart that Superman is about. Like you said, the Boy Scout, the guy that will swoop in and save the day, but also be like totally the gentle giant, almost, for lack of a better word. You know what I mean? Yeah.
00:35:07
Speaker
If you haven't seen Superman and Lois on the CW or also the first seasons on HBO Max, they have what I think is the perfect modern interpretation of Superman. We still got that kind of like Midwestern charm, this Boy Scout aspect to him. But also he's just like kind of a dorky dad. It's like this kind of aspect. It's a really cool interpretation of him, yeah.
00:35:33
Speaker
I have to see that you definitely gotta check it out. It's really good. It's a it's a CW one though. It's a CW show, but it the first seasons on HBO Max.
00:35:42
Speaker
So in that version, is his parents alive? Is John and Martha Kent still alive? No, no. Jonathan has been dead in that one for a while. And Martha actually dies in the premiere. And that kind of brings them back to Smallville. Yeah. But instead of, you know, but him and Lois are parents in that. So they've got two teenage boys.
00:36:04
Speaker
And so it's a really, it's a really cool dynamic to see them as parents. And it's got one of the best talking about, you know, superhero romance stuff. It's got one of the best, most mature takes on a superhero romance that I've seen in any medium. Comics, movies. What? You got to check it out. You know, that's high praise, you know, like.
00:36:27
Speaker
OK, I definitely have to check that out. Yeah. Yeah. So it's really good. So talking to going back to Green Lantern, one of the things I thought was interesting about it is like so there have been multiple Green Lanterns in the comics. So you have Hal Jordan is like the most famous. But you've also had, you know, Jon Stewart, obviously, who was in the Justice League cartoons. Guy Gardner, Kyle Rayner.
00:36:54
Speaker
Alan Scott was the was the first one way back in the Golden Age. But one of the interesting things is that it feels like I've never been a Hal Jordan fans and I'm not that familiar with him, but it almost feels like they kind of gave.
00:37:06
Speaker
Guy Gardner's personality to Hal Jordan in this, because Guy Gardner was much more of like the asshole Green Lantern. Like the guy was very confrontational. In fact, one of the most memorable scenes in like classic Justice League comics is he's arguing with Batman and he's like challenging Batman to a fight for leadership over the Justice League. And he takes off his ring and he's like, oh, I'm gonna kick it off. And then Batman decks him with one punch. Wow.
00:37:35
Speaker
I didn't realize that that dynamic of having Green Lantern really kind of challenged Batman is something that has been explored before in the comics, even though it's not this versus not how I didn't even realize that's something that's like, yeah, that's been explored. There was also yeah, there was also some additional animosity because Hal Jordan and the comp with Hal Jordan and Batman specifically in the comics in the 90s, Hal Jordan went dark side went evil.
00:38:02
Speaker
And he became a super villain. And then after that, he eventually sacrificed his life and then eventually ended up being resurrected and redeemed. And there was still that kind of animosity between him and Batman because Batman's legs like doesn't matter. You know, I don't think you've changed. You're still right. You're still a villain type of thing. So there's there's some animosity there that I think Jeff Johns was definitely leaning on when he was writing the story.
00:38:28
Speaker
I don't, I have a vague recollection. I don't think it was the 90. I think it was like in the 2000s of this comic book arc where Green Lantern was bad. And I, and he became like, as you said, Parallax. Yeah. That was, that was the Parallax. Is that what it's called? Yeah. Yeah. That was in the 90s. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's what I was thinking of. Yeah. And he, and he definitely, yeah, I never read it. I just have, you know, like throughout my whole, as I said, I never really was into the comics, but
00:38:57
Speaker
Throughout the 90s and the early 2000s, I was- Stuff kind of seeps in throughout the most. Yeah, exactly. To the pop culture, even just being on the bus and hearing other people come on the bus and talking about, I would, anytime I heard anything talk about comics or superheroes, my ears keying in and I'm listening. Like I found out about the whole onslaught series and the whole onslaught thing in Marvel, just by hearing some other random people talk about it on the bus. And from that, I just kind of, yeah.
00:39:27
Speaker
And I just became a band of that and I ended up getting that later on in the, when I, when I started collecting. So, so, not to go too far up on the tangent but when I started collecting
Character Portrayals and Preferences
00:39:41
Speaker
late to like around closer to around 2010. For me, part of the reason why I never did real comics is because I didn't have the patience to go week to week and write a story ongoing. So for me, I said, let me jump in with trade paperbacks and or graphic novels. That's what I like to do. So when I decided I'm going to try and put my money where my mouth is and actually start collecting, that's what I was doing. I was doing strictly trade paperbacks.
00:40:08
Speaker
And the onslaught thing was one of the first things that I got as well as Marvel versus VC. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm all trades myself these days. It's just, it's such a, I find me personally, I find it's a better experience just to have the whole story in one volume. Right. Yeah. When I had gone digital a few years ago, I'd gotten back into, you know, month to month comics for a little bit, but I found myself just because I was reading so many different things and I found myself
00:40:38
Speaker
forgetting what had happened in the previous issue. And so eventually I just figured, I just decided to just switch completely to trades. And it's, for me at least it's a much more enjoyable reading experience.
00:40:49
Speaker
Right. Yeah. I would firstly, for me too, I agree. That's why I, that's where I jumped in. And that's what I, the only type of comments that I, that I get, like, even when I go to like, uh, comic cons or slash fan expo here in Toronto, um, you know, that's all I buy is strictly. Yeah.
00:41:09
Speaker
graphic novels and trades. Yeah. And even independent stuff. But yeah, I didn't mean to go off on a tangent, but it happens all the time. But I liked I thought even though like Hal Jordan is not my favorite Green Lantern. And even though I think it's a little it was an interesting choice to give him more of the Guy Gardner personality. I really kind of. Yeah, I really kind of like him in this movie. I like that he was kind of like the the more confrontational type.
00:41:36
Speaker
And especially when you contrast it with The Flash, I thought The Flash did a great job. And this take on Batman too, it's also, it's a really cool take. I think Jason O'Mara does a really good job where he's, he's not like the, that's the voice actor, yeah. He's not, you know, he's not the,
00:42:00
Speaker
the grim dark Batman, but he's got like, he's more like the more like the classic seventies Batman where he's got some sense of humor. He's got a bit of this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad you, I like that you made that observation because that's something that I realized, but I didn't realize it consciously.
00:42:19
Speaker
Like until you pointed it out right now, but I'm like, yeah, the entire time I was watching it, because I went back to rewatch it once, once she booked me for the show. So we watched it like a couple of weeks ago. And after watching it, I'm like, I'm loving this Batman. There's something different about him, but I'm not sure exactly what it is, but I'm loving it. You know what I mean? And it's still Batman. So he's still dark. He's still the badass, but he has a little bit more of a humanity to him. Like you're saying and a little bit of more. Yeah.
00:42:47
Speaker
I like that. Yeah. It's almost like. Sorry, go ahead. It's almost it's almost like they did. They did like a like a 50 percent freaky Friday with Superman and Batman, where they gave Superman a little bit of Batman. And then they gave Batman a little bit of Superman. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think that's a really good point. Yeah. Yeah. And I think a lot of that is.
00:43:11
Speaker
probably trying to balance the characters out a little bit more. And I think also too, it was just like the pressures of, like you said, the interpreted, the belief that Superman is just a Boy Scout. So we have to dirty them up a little bit to make them a little bit more edgy and a little bit more modern. I think that was probably like the guiding principle that they were relying on for those. Yeah. Again, now that you, oh, sorry. I was just gonna say, what did you think of the, the voice cast?
00:43:39
Speaker
um voices i pretty much liked them all i was can't think of any off the top of the head that i didn't like because there's sometimes when there there are definitely sometimes when i watch these animated movies where i'm like
00:43:51
Speaker
that voice is not doing it for me. That voice for that character is just not right. I can't think of any that jumped out to me on this particular DC animated movie, but I will say that I was pleasantly surprised and shocked to find out when I read the credits after that
00:44:10
Speaker
Michelle Monaghan was Wonder Woman. I was shocked because I was like, listening to the whole movie or watch it, I'm like, that voice came out of Michelle Monaghan, like no freaking way. Like, are you serious? Like she had the typical solid Wonder Woman presence, commanding, you know, presence and the way she talked. Oh, speaking of that, I do like speaking of things that were different that I liked. Again, with Wonder Woman, how they,
00:44:40
Speaker
they gave her that really innocent child-like view of the world where she's even getting excited over ice cream when a little girl shows her what ice cream is for the first time. That whole dynamic they gave to Wonder Woman, I found that to be charming and really great. Again, balancing out her kick-ass take names and sorry,
00:45:05
Speaker
shoot first, ask questions later, add it to that warrior princess that bounced it out with bringing her down to earth as a kind of a child of wonder. I like that. Definitely like that.
00:45:19
Speaker
Michelle Monahan was actually one of the weakest casts for me. And I think it's not necessarily anything that she does wrong. I think it's just being spoiled by other performances. I do like that scene. I do like that they brought this innocence to her.
00:45:40
Speaker
The thing is, though, in my head, and again, this is spoiled from from watching Gal Gadot, like seeing Gal Gadot do that innocence thing so much better in the first Wonder Woman movie. Right. It really kind of I just kept thinking like, man, Gal Gadot did such a better job doing this.
00:45:57
Speaker
You think so, really? I think so, yeah. I thought the early scenes when she was in the Wonder Woman movie when she arrives in London and kind of like innocence. And I thought she did. I thought Gal Gadot did an amazing job of selling that.
00:46:11
Speaker
OK, so speaking of voices as being the topic of discussion, that's one of the examples, even though that's live action, where I was the opposite. Oh, OK. The whole Gal Gadot giving her that accent. It totally to me, it just took me out of Wonder Woman completely. I was like, who is this? Like, this is not the I've never heard.
00:46:33
Speaker
Wonder Woman, it's never been spoken of, Wonder Woman being like, you know, having any kind of accent or being, yeah, she's from, you know, whatever Themyscira, but she's always had a very American commanding, assertive, you know, type of tone. And so when they did that with her in the live action Gal Gadot version of her, it totally threw me. I was like, no, I'm not by, I'm not feeling this version of the boys for sure. Yeah.
00:46:58
Speaker
That's fair. You know, it's interesting because I get where you're coming from. I'd always also, you know, kind of associated her with more kind of American accent. And also to use the opposite example, I'd always associated Black Widow in the comic books with, you know, a Russian accent. Oh, with that Russian accent. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But then when you see them in live action and it's the opposite of what you would expect, it actually did work for me very well. Like I thought,
00:47:24
Speaker
I thought Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman having the accent really fit her because she was coming from Themyscira. It helped kind of enhance that almost exotic feel. So I thought it really worked for me. And whereas Black Widow, it worked in the opposite way because my way of thinking was, well, she's a spy. Of course she'd be able to blend in and have an American accent. So even though it was the opposite of what my expectation was, it worked for me in both instances. Okay, okay. Wow.
00:47:55
Speaker
And I mentioned Jason Omar, I thought he did a great job as Batman and he's done it through like pretty much most of these movies. I also really liked Christopher Gorham who did the Flash. I thought he did a really good job of nailing that character and that accent and the way he played it, I thought really worked.
00:48:19
Speaker
Again, all of them, I definitely don't have no disagreements. They all worked for me. To be honest, I'll be honest with you. I haven't really followed the cast of these animated movies, so I'm not really familiar with the different voices. I think there's one or two that I'm familiar with in terms of the actual actors. The guy that does, he does Batman a lot. I can't remember his name.
00:48:43
Speaker
you mean in this one or not in this one not in this one right you're probably talking yes that's it yeah yeah yeah his name i know for sure as as a as a voice um actor for a lot of these animated movies but a lot of but most of the other ones like i'm not really you know following and knowing who's doing the voices so much um yeah but i yeah i definitely
00:49:04
Speaker
There was one that I thought also Sean Astin did Shazam and he was also, you know, from the Lord of the Rings movies. Yes. He did a really good job, yeah. Yeah, I love Shazam. Shamar Moore is another one I was shocked to find out that he was, what's his name? Cyborg. Cyborg, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he was good too. Not someone who you would associate to be involved in any kind of comic book properties, you know, so yeah.
00:49:33
Speaker
Alan Tudyk did Superman. I thought that was an interesting choice and I thought he did a good job, but I feel like...
00:49:39
Speaker
his voice, I think it would work more for a more classic take on Superman. I don't think it quite worked as well for this kind of edgier take on Superman. That's crazy. Sorry, I'm doing my research while I'm talking to you. So I'm looking at the pictures of all the different actors and I'm like, I know Alan today, like from like his face. I know him. I just don't know his name. You know what I mean? Oh, right. Yeah. Firefly is probably. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm shocked that he's the one that did Superman. Like, yeah. Are you serious?
00:50:10
Speaker
I guess that's why they call it acting and that's why they get paid the big bucks and you and I are just writers. Yeah, yeah. Well, Green Lantern, Justin Kirk did the voice for him. I thought he did a good job, although my only complaint there is, did you see Justice League Doom? Yes, I don't remember much of it at the top of my head, but I did see it, yeah. Yeah, so in that one, another Firefly alum, that was, God, the main guy on Firefly,
00:50:39
Speaker
Can't believe I'm blanking on his name. I never watched Firefly. Oh, you never watched Firefly? I know. Shocking. Yes, I haven't watched it. I mean, Nathan Fillion. I watched it, but I don't remember anything from it. I wasn't like a huge fan. Like, I wasn't I didn't dislike it, but it wasn't it wasn't my thing. OK, so he was the main he was the main guy on Firefly, Nathan Fillion, and he did the voice of Hal Jordan in Justice League Doom.
00:51:03
Speaker
And I thought he did such an amazing job of doing Hal Jordan. And it's nothing against Justin Kirk. I think Justin Kirk did a really good job. And I think Justin Kirk would probably fit more with this more dickish version of Hal Jordan, but I did still find myself missing Nathan Fillion's voice.
00:51:25
Speaker
There was a little bit of that with Kevin Conroy, too, and Jason O'Mara. Like, there are some times when Jason O'Mara, it kind of feels like, okay, it feels like you're trying to do Kevin Conroy, but you're not Kevin Conroy. Yeah, yeah. He has like, I don't know, I don't know for anybody else out there, including yourself, but for me, Kevin Conroy has the voice. Oh, yeah, yeah. He is the voice, like, yeah.
00:51:48
Speaker
signature like this like how Tony Stark uh sorry Robert Downey Jr is Tony Stark in live action like person like yeah Kevin Conroy's Batman for sure absolutely yeah definitely agree with that perfect um all right anything else we want anything else you wanted to mention about this movie anything else that kind of stood out to you um
00:52:12
Speaker
I don't know like again like I said like to me just like again all the way around like another reason why I liked it in terms of so you know like you and I are fanboys you and I are hardcore like into superheroes nerd stuff whatever but like for someone who is not necessarily the more casual observer let's say you know people like
00:52:32
Speaker
someone's wife or or their girlfriend or not to be sexist or like their partner of whatever gender um or just you know someone who's a casual observer who's just a fan of let's say the marvel movies the marvel mcu but it's not really hardcore and if you were to you know tell them one of the animated movies to start with for the dc i feel like this one is the perfect one to start okay reason being because
00:53:01
Speaker
As a storyline and a plot, it's not too deep in drama. It's like really a very simple, basic plot that's really centered around a lot of action right from the very beginning, from the opening scene. It starts with Green Lantern encountering the parallel
00:53:21
Speaker
What do you call it? Para Demon. Para Demon and Batman. And it's just from one action scene to the next pretty much. Yeah, there's a little bit of drama in between, but as far as overall screen time of action to drama, it's just like a lot of action compared to a lot of the other movies. So I feel like because of that level, that huge amount of action, the simplicity of the plot,
00:53:52
Speaker
but mixed with so much unique, fun dynamics between the different characters. I feel like it's the perfect DC animated movie to bring a casual observer that into the universe if they're wanting to watch. Well, that's a good question. What did your kids think of this movie? How do they rate this compared to some of the other ones? Oh, OK. So two things. Number one, my kids are grown now. Like when this came out, they would have been, yeah, they're much older now.
00:54:20
Speaker
Ironically, also ironically, I also don't live with them anymore. So they live with their with their mom, weren't along together, whatever. But so I don't even know if they've seen this one. I haven't sat down and watched this one with them. But I can know just by knowing them and knowing how much they enjoyed the other ones that we've watched together, public enemies being the very first one, I'm 1000 percent sure that they would love this one. Because again, the same things I just mentioned that like
00:54:48
Speaker
The action is ramped up, to me, compared to public enemies, compared to apocalypse, compared to New Frontier, compared to all of them, especially the Batman ones, which are a lot more dramatic. This one is just action beat after action beat. And each action beat gets magnified and multiplied and just gets even bigger and bigger.
00:55:14
Speaker
the villain, we have been talk about Darkseid. Oh yeah, Darkseid. Yeah. What'd you think of him in this version? I think I'm spoiled because I thought the Superman, the animated series and the Justice League cartoons, I think they did like the perfect version of Darkseid. Darkseid. And I thought that it's just like income. I mean,
Comparing Villains: Darkseid and Thanos
00:55:33
Speaker
this one, he's fine, but I just don't feel that he has that same kind of presence that he had in those other adaptations.
00:55:39
Speaker
I can see what you're saying in terms of being that big, big, bad of the movie that really, yeah, I understand what you're saying. I can see that. Like overall, if I'm being honest, really brutally honest, it did seem that them defeating him and getting him back to the, you know, to his realm seemed a little bit too easy for the level of a villain that he is out in the DC universe.
00:56:09
Speaker
But that's also, again, because I know I'm so familiar with the source material that, you know what I mean? But I would say that for me, it was eye opening and watching it compared to, let's say, what's his name?
00:56:26
Speaker
Marvel Universe. Thanos. Thanos, yes. Even in rewatching this, Justice the War, which I watched when it came out originally, but I completely forgot about it. When I rewatched it last week, I'm like, man, Darkseid is a fucking badass. He makes Thanos look like a fricking Boy Scout. I don't know what your take is on it. I actually had the opposite take on that. Are you serious? Yeah, because I think part of the problem is
00:56:56
Speaker
lack of buildup because I think if you yeah because you know Thanos we had such a slow build to him so that when he appears fully in infinity war and just right from the start because like you know I think that that opening scene in infinity war is just
00:57:15
Speaker
It's like a perfect way to because we've been building up to this guy and now we get to see him in action. And right. First thing he does is he's the ever loving shit out of the stones or anything. And especially after you've had all these movies of the Hulk being like the big bad that ever.
00:57:33
Speaker
Raven Thor has trouble facing off against him. And then all of a sudden you've got Thanos who beats him down in like five minutes flat. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And then it just and then it escalates from there. That's where it starts and it escalates from there. And I feel like Dark Side both in this movie and also in the live action movies, I think it's done a disservice where we don't really get that same kind of buildup.
00:58:01
Speaker
Hold on, sorry. Sorry, did you just say the live action version of Darkseid? Yeah, yeah. What do you mean? Zach Snyder's Justice League. Wait, he's in the Snyder Cut? He's in the Snyder Cut, yeah. But he's in there, yeah. I haven't watched the Snyder Cut. So that's why I'm like, what the flip? Well, you like the Man of Steel, so maybe you'll like it. I mean, for me, it was four hours of my life, I'll never get back. I'll never get back.
00:58:31
Speaker
What did you like the, the non Snyder cut of Justice League. Um, I'm mixed on it I liked it better than the Snyder cut, and I really, and the reason for one key reason, because Henry Cavill actually got to play Superman is like I as like closer to what I think of this Superman.
00:58:49
Speaker
Like he had the arm, he had the kind of, yeah, he was much more laid back. He wasn't as angsty, you know, right, smiled, actually, you know, bad CGI lip aside. I thought he did. I thought the character interaction, I much more enjoyed the character interactions in the in the weeding cut of it.
00:59:05
Speaker
But I didn't really like either one that much. But just for the treatment of Superman alone, the Weed & Cut, and also it's not four hours. So just for those two reasons alone, the Weed & Cut, I put that in a higher pedestal than the Snyder Cut.
00:59:23
Speaker
that actually tracks for me. So I'm in your camp where I definitely, I mean, I didn't like the Whedon version and it's the only version I've watched. But from what I hear of people who are, I guess, Snyder fanboys,
00:59:40
Speaker
they say the Snyder cut is like a million times better. I mean, Zack Snyder could direct, you know, a 10 second clip and they say it's like the second coming of the price. That's true, that's true. I mean, there's fan and then there's cults. Right. For real. But yeah, I guess taking it back to this, I think like
01:00:07
Speaker
Darkseid's fine in this, but I'm just, and I think if I hadn't had the other version in Superman the Animated Series and Justice League Unlimited, where he's played to perfection, like he's got this icy cold, you know, this almost like this calm, what's the best way to describe it? It's like this calm, sinister aspect. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:00:35
Speaker
And this one just doesn't quite have that same gravitas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I get it. That's what I was saying when you said like, you know, like.
01:00:46
Speaker
what I was kind of what I was alluding to when I said that like it's, it's, it seems a little bit too easy that they were able to beat him to feed him. Although it took a little took all of them to do it. It did seem a little bit too, too, too easy. Like, yeah, that's that sinister. And as you said, that sinister quality, um, it didn't quite get to the level that it should have been, you know, that, that, that cold blooded. Yeah. Um,
01:01:13
Speaker
I had something pop to, as you were talking, something pop in my head, but that kind of, I lost my train of thought now that I wanted to ask you about it. That's what it, maybe it'll come. My final things on this is, so you're talking about other people who are interested in this. Cause you know, my wife likes watching the superhero movies, but you know, she has no familiarity with the comics. So she was kind of,
01:01:35
Speaker
She was kind of tuning in and out when I was watching this. Like she was like watching a little bit and then she was like kind of going away. So I don't think it really kind of grabbed her in the same way like the MCU stuff does. Right, right. So I think, although she did, you know, there were a few times when she kind of pops in, she's like, oh, is that Shazam? Because she loves Shazam. She loves that. Oh, yes. I forgot to say that. Yeah, go on.
01:01:57
Speaker
But other than that, like for me, I think it, like, cause this movie had really divided, it had like a 50% on Rotten Tomatoes.
Fan Opinions on 'Justice League War'
01:02:05
Speaker
So there's a lot of, yeah, yeah. There's like a lot of negative opinions about this in the bank community. I don't, I think I'm somewhere between where you're at and where like the most of the bank community is. Yeah. I'm like somewhere in the middle there. Like I don't think it's terrible. I think it's fine. I think it's, it's a decent enough movie.
01:02:26
Speaker
But I think I'm also spoiled by a lot of other versions of Justice League. And I think that's kind of where I fall, especially, you know, even with some of the other animated movies, like I think Justice League Doom and Crisis on Two Earths are probably my favorite of the animated Justice League.
01:02:47
Speaker
movies. Honestly, I'm glad to hear you share all this insight because I'm like, I never really stopped to even think about what the fan community thinks about this particular one. Which is not actually a bad stance. I'm part of the fan community, God love them, but sometimes they take things a little bit too seriously.
01:03:17
Speaker
It's still fun, though, to hear like from a human perspective. For me, it's enlightening and it's fun to hear that, oh, wait, your opinion is not the beginning and end all. Right. You know what I mean? It never occurred to me that my opinion on this particular movie might be different than the consensus. So it's just real cool to hear that. And I'm just like, oh, OK. So I'm going to go back now. I'm going to check all the other ones and see what people have to say about it.
01:03:44
Speaker
It seems to me that basically from what you're saying that like this this one, it's like, you know, like how people.
01:03:51
Speaker
people say that like Zack Snyder's Justice League, everyone thinks it's trash, but there's these outliers out there that actually there's someone out there in the world that thinks it's the most, the best thing since last year. I kind of feel like that's me with this Justice League war now. Here's a perfect example of this. I mean, we had covered steel on this show and it was,
01:04:16
Speaker
I thought it was utter dog shit, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, we had we had another another podcast. So we talked about Spider-Man three and he had covered steel on his own podcast. And he actually kind of like steel. And it was that was a perfect example. Example. Yeah. Someone who can have like the complete opposite opinion of you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No matter the consensus. Yeah. No matter how bad it is or how bad you think it is. There's always going to be someone out there. One person out there who. Yeah.
01:04:47
Speaker
That's funny, yo. All right. But I think that about brings us to the end of Justice League war, unless you had anything, any other comments about it?
01:04:57
Speaker
No, not really. I mean, I could pick your brain about different stuff related to it, probably till tomorrow this time. But yeah, yeah, about the specific movie, notice that in specific that I want to talk about, that people know about it. It's a good movie, like it. I guess what I would say from me and wrapping it up, at the end of the day, the biggest thing I think that I like about it at the end of the day is just it's fun. I think it's a very fun romp. It's a very fun,
01:05:24
Speaker
DC animated Justice League movie. That's what it boils down to for me, yeah. I think, yeah, and I'd agree with that. It's not my favorite, but there's nothing I really have against it. Like there, obviously I got some quibbles with different things. Yes, yeah. But overall I enjoy it. Like it's not a movie that I hate or anything like that. I just had other ones that I like better. Better, yeah.
DC vs Marvel: Personal Preferences
01:05:46
Speaker
Do you have a top five in terms of that you would be able to rattle off?
01:05:51
Speaker
Justice League specific. I think there's probably only five ones after that. Really? Or DC animated movies. Okay, DC. And I think I would probably put The Dark Knight Returns would probably be at the top of the list. Okay. After that, maybe New Frontier. Doom. Probably the death and return of Superman. I thought that was actually really well done. And then
01:06:21
Speaker
Last one would probably be a crisis on two orths. Those would probably be like my top five. Five, okay, okay. And that's just going off the top of my head. Once I had the list in front of me, I might quibble a little bit without it. And some of them I got to rewatch, but off the top of my head, that's probably the five I dealt with. Quick related question. Are you in general DC or Marvel or are you one of those that you don't have any particular?
01:06:46
Speaker
So I love both. Historically, I've been much more of a Marvel guy. Like I said, X-Men was my gateway drug, and then Spider-Man as well. So my original comics, when I first got into collecting comics, like my pull list was like 75% Marvel, 25% DC. So historically, I've definitely been more of a Marvel guy. And I'm always gonna have like a soft spot in my heart for Marvel because it's how I started out with.
01:07:14
Speaker
There's tons of DC stuff that I love equally too. These days, I'm pretty much reading them equally, like DC and Marvel stuff. And I think, and even when we're talking, I think Marvel's movies are definitely better, but I think DC's TV stuff has been, output has been generally better.
01:07:34
Speaker
1000%. I think we're literally almost twins in that regard. Like, yeah, 75% Marvel for me, 25% DC as far as overall fandom, not specifically comics, but just in overall. But DC's TV stuff, specifically the animated stuff is like crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Podcast Promotion and Closing Remarks
01:08:02
Speaker
Okay, well Henry thanks so much for coming on, why don't you tell people where they can find you. So again, the simplest place to find me and find all my work is to go to the capes and mics podcast capes and mics.
01:08:16
Speaker
think capes and tights, but instead of tights, mics, capes and mics. You can find the podcast on Spotify, Apple podcasts, and then pretty much any other streaming platform, as well as you can do the same thing in YouTube. Just search capes and mics and you'll get the capes and mics YouTube channel. That's where you'll see a lot of the visuals and links to the different stuff that I'm doing.
01:08:39
Speaker
And your new one's coming out sometime in June, you said, right? The new one's coming out in June. And as you pointed out, probably by the time this episode is out, it will all be available. And the best way to find out where you can get it is, again, listen to the podcast and or the YouTube channel. You'll have direct links from the video that shows you the new book, Hearts and Powers. There'll be links directly to where you can get it.
01:09:04
Speaker
Okay, great. Well, thanks so much for agreeing to come on the show. It was a conversation. And anytime you want to come back, you're more than welcome.
01:09:12
Speaker
Thanks. It was a real pleasure. I don't often get to talk with other people cause my podcast is a lot of times solo or with my brother who is, is not so much the superhero fan. So this was a real treat for me. So thanks a lot. Well, happy to do it. Anytime you're more than welcome back. Uh, but that does it for this episode of superhero cinephiles. Superherocinephiles.com is the website and we are super cinema pod on Twitter and Instagram.
01:09:35
Speaker
And if you join our Patreon, you get all these episodes a week in advance and we got some other stuff that'll be dropping on the Patreon pretty soon if it hasn't already. Thanks for listening and we'll talk to you next time.
01:09:48
Speaker
If you enjoy the Superhero Cinephiles, then you'll also love my companion podcast, the Superhero Cinephiles Book Club. All my Patreon subscribers get access to this exclusive podcast where I review superhero comics and graphic novels. Not sure what comics you want to read next or what you should dive into? I've got you covered on that. I'll be doing reviews, recommendations, and also talking to you about useful entry points.
01:10:08
Speaker
If you're interested in reading some comics but don't know where you should start, plus you'll get access to all episodes of the main show a week before everyone else. On all of this for as little as just a dollar a month, all you have to do is go to patreon.com slash SuperCinemaPod and you can sign up at any subscription amount to get started. Thanks so much for your support and please don't forget to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get podcasts.
01:10:52
Speaker
Thank you for listening and as always good night. Good evening. God bless.