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Episode 88: The Fates & The Furies
520 Plays2 years ago
Welcome back Witches! We're bringing you another deity episode this week, and this time we're looking at the Greco-Roman pantheon! Who's ready to learn all about the mysterious Fates & Furies?? They have murky origins at best, but are definitely intertwined into many of the mythologies! So get in losers, and let's learn about those feisty Fates and Furies.
We would be forever thankful if you left our podcast a 5-Star review. If you really loved the show and want more Get in Loser content, check out our Supercast & Buy Me a Coffee links below. You can also find us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram @GetinWitches, on TikTok @weredoingwitchcraft, or email us at weredoingwitchcraft@gmail.com. You can support our show through our links below.
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Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio- The Witch
References:
- Miate, Liana. Fates. (2022). World History Encyclopedia. https://www.worldhistory.org/Fates/
- GreekMythology.com, The Editors of Website. "The Fates". GreekMythology.com Website, 06 Oct. 2021, https://www.greekmythology.com/Other_Gods/The_Fates/the_fates.html. Accessed 23 March 2023.
- Erinyes (n.d.). Theoi.Com.https://www.theoi.com/Khthonios/Erinyes.html
- Koukakis, Lefteris (n.d.). Furies (Erinyes)- Mythical Creature. https://www.greek-mythology-pantheon.com/mythical-creatures/furies-erinyes/
- Avi Kapach (2023). Erinyes (Furies). Mythopedia. https://mythopedia.com/topics/erinyes
- Youtube:Storied- The Fates: Greek Mythology’s Most Powerful Deities- Fate & Fabled
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Witchcraft Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Do you feel drawn to learn more about witchcraft in the occult, but feel lost on where to start? Then welcome to Get In, Loser, We're Doing Witchcraft, a podcast all about what it means to be a witch and where to get started on your journey. Join us as we navigate through various witchy topics and share what we have learned about the craft.
Exploration of Greco-Roman Mythology: The Fates and the Furies
00:00:16
Speaker
So get in witches as we delve deep into the Greco-Roman mythology and explore the mystifying forces that are known as the fates and the furies.
00:00:44
Speaker
that Facebook post that I sent you about the Halloween thing. About Jesus ween. About Jesus ween. Happy Jesus ween everyone.
Halloween on a Military Base: Community Insights
00:00:54
Speaker
Yeah so this is really soon the end of November for you guys but we're actually recording this like mid-October so we're like a month ahead but so what's going on right now obviously everybody's preparing for
00:01:11
Speaker
Halloween and Samhain and everything related to that. And as you know, I live on a military installation with a bunch of people with a bunch of different backgrounds and it is crazy. I never lived somewhere before like where, and I don't know if it's because the base is just so big and on the island, we have all of the services represented, but there are a lot of fucking crazy people
00:01:40
Speaker
And it's just insane. Yeah. We did not have this like this in England. There were still crazy people, but not this many. I was going to say every base has like, you got your crazies. It's just going to happen. It's inevitable when you have a whole bunch of people in one space. Like some of them are going to be crazy people.
00:01:56
Speaker
You have a abnormally high amount of crises that we talk about daily. Yes. I just don't understand if it's the area that's making the craziness come out more or if because it's a blended service situation, it's just some services are more inclined to be married to someone who is more crazy. I don't know.
Religious Views on Halloween: A Parent's Perspective
00:02:20
Speaker
But recently we had a post come through on our Facebook page for the base and it was from an anonymous person and they were talking about like, well, they addressed their, was it warrior, a prayer warrior mothers or something like that.
00:02:37
Speaker
And I'm like, what? Christian warriors. Oops, I just dropped the lid to my chest to come on the floor. But anyway, addressing them, basically saying, what can I do? Or what should I be telling my son, my seven-year-old son, because we're not participating in Halloween? And people were like, well, in the comments talking about,
00:02:59
Speaker
you know, if you don't really believe in it, like maybe just say that you don't believe in it and why if you feel that strongly about it, which I can get behind that, you know what I mean? But then, like, all these other crazy people come out of the woodwork and they're like, yeah, well, you know, it's this is the devil's holiday. And like, I mean, just like crazy shit or like this one guy was like, oh, yeah, well, it was a pagan holiday until St. Patrick.
00:03:24
Speaker
came to Ireland and drove the snakes, quote unquote, druids out of Ireland. So now it's a Christian holiday.
Christian Reinterpretation of Pagan Holidays
00:03:32
Speaker
We've taken it back. So here's the thing. I told Anthony about this. I read the thing to him and was telling him the conversation you and I were having about this. And Anthony was like,
00:03:43
Speaker
basically Christians see everything that pagans do and they're like, well, I want to do that. And then like the Christians are like, well, you can't do that because that's not, that's not Christian. And they're like, Oh, well it is now. Yeah. Like it's Christmas. It's Jesus's birthday. And it's like, you can't prove that it's Jesus's birthday. Well, you can't prove that it's not. So it's Jesus's birthday. This is the day he rose from the dead. And it's like,
00:04:07
Speaker
Yeah. Like how? Where does it say that? Because we all believe it. So it is. And now it's our holiday. Like you can't have it anymore. Now we are celebrating God or Jesus, whatever he is, has risen from the dead. And it's like, that's not how any of this works.
00:04:23
Speaker
right? But they always just constantly take what they want and make it theirs by saying like, Oh, well, we claim it. And it's like, that's, that's not how anything works. That's not how any of this
Fairy Tales and Religious Dogma
00:04:33
Speaker
works. Yeah. And then we got out like conversation about the Bible in general, and just how like, they leave out like the Bible has been so harshly edited that they leave out all this stuff that they don't want people to know. Because there's like whole chapters of Jesus is like childhood where he was actually a shitty kid.
00:04:48
Speaker
that like cursed people and like you know did stuff when people made him mad when he was a toddler kind of thing that has been edited out from the original text and Anthony was like yeah the Bible is basically just like this fairy tale told from like a six-year-old's point of view where it's like oh well me and my dad built this boat and the rain came and we got two of all the animals and they were best friends on the boat and we didn't let anyone else on the boat because we were better and we built it
00:05:14
Speaker
Like, to him, it's just like every story from the Bible. It's like, oh, this is told from a six year old's point of view. Yeah, it's I mean, it just it's crazy to me that someone can be so hung up on just everything related to like, here's the thing. Here's you. I'm super reminded you can believe however you want to believe. But at the same time, it's like, I feel like you should also be objective in being like, you know, I realize this isn't for everyone.
00:05:41
Speaker
Just like I'm objective in knowing that my beliefs aren't for everyone, but the difference is that for people who believe a specific, not everybody who's Christian, but for a large, at least the majority of the people that I interact with or see in the community that I live, it's like, well, if because I don't believe this specific way,
00:06:03
Speaker
you shouldn't believe it either. And this is all evil. And you have to believe my specific way. Yeah. I want to say my way is the only way. And if you don't believe that, you're a bad person. And it's like, I don't know if you're Jesus or God would condone you saying those things to another person because aren't you supposed to love your neighbor regardless and turn the other cheek? Yeah.
00:06:29
Speaker
they don't practice what they preach.
Christian Misconceptions about Halloween and Satanism
00:06:31
Speaker
They don't, yeah. And then like I feel like the icing on the cake of the whole like Facebook drama that happened with this because it really turned into like Christians arguing amongst themselves about why Halloween is an evil holiday. Then the anonymous poster who originally posted came back and was like well the her reasoning for like she was like I don't care what the what the ancient beliefs were surrounding Halloween
00:06:57
Speaker
She's like, Halloween now, it's a Satan holiday. Satanists are trying- Christians believe in Satan. Christians don't even believe in Satan. Right, yeah. But according to her, the Satanists out there are sacrificing Christian children on Halloween. I would like to know where she's getting these facts. Right, yeah. And the whole exchange of candy
00:07:22
Speaker
is essentially them also educating them on Satan. And I'm like, I'm like, also like you literally should probably, like you obviously don't know what she's talking about because you don't know anything about Satanists. But like, have you never Googled anything in your life? Like, because you could easily learn something if you just Googled
00:07:44
Speaker
and got some actual unbiased information that it come from your evangelical pastor. I just don't understand how someone could listen to somebody say that and think that it's true. I think that a lot, but then I think about the time being in the church. You know, Julia and I both have heavy culty type church backgrounds, Julia especially.
00:08:08
Speaker
And it's like, growing up in that setting, I can absolutely see how people just buy into it. It's the only thing they know. It's the only thing they've been around. And so to them, everything is this way or no way. You cannot believe any other way.
00:08:27
Speaker
But it is, as someone who has left the church and grown away from that and was able to just put that distance between me and that part of my life, I'm still flabbergasted that people get adult humans have first contact with that. And then they're like, this is absolutely true. And I'm like, yeah.
00:08:50
Speaker
understandable when children grow up in a church and that's all they know to understand. But when you're a full grown adult and you're like, I'm going to check out church today. And you're like, oh man, this is what I've been missing my whole life. I'm like, are you okay?
'Jesus ween': A Comedic Take on Christian Alternatives
00:09:05
Speaker
No, they're not.
00:09:06
Speaker
But all are not okay. Out of it stemmed, there was this video I think you sent me about Jesus wean. That's what the Christians now call Halloween. It is Jesus wean. It doesn't matter that Jesus wean kind of sounds like something phallic, but
00:09:28
Speaker
I guess. Yeah, don't tell them that. No, no, no, no. Well, we're already going to hell, so it really doesn't matter. Yeah, I don't even know. Yeah. All the people are going to be there. Exactly. Yeah, we'll just hang out together. It's fine. But anyway,
In-depth Examination of the Fates in Mythology
00:09:40
Speaker
yeah. So what are we talking about today? We are talking about the fates and the furies. Yes. And I'm not even on my notes. So I pulled up the schedule when we were trying to figure out when this was releasing. Yeah. But yes, we're talking about the fates and the furies.
00:09:57
Speaker
originally, when we started talking about this episode, we were like, we haven't done Roman deities. And we went to a website and we were like, oh yeah, let's do the Fates and the Furies. And while they are woven into Roman mythology, they're also in Greek mythology, so they are Greco-Roman deities.
00:10:17
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. There's a ton of overlap. And then some of it like I'm like, at least on my end, I don't know about yours, but some of it I was reading and I'm like, so is this Greek pantheon? Is this Roman pantheon? It doesn't really say.
00:10:31
Speaker
So I will say at least for the fates, I will do my best to let you know which side of the pantheon it came from. But a lot of it doesn't really say it's just like kind of intermingled and up for interpretation and their origins are even like a little
00:10:47
Speaker
confusing and murky and all over the place. So we're going to do our best. But it was a fun episode for me at least to research. I really enjoyed this. Me too. There's some wild stuff that I'm going to talk about. And part of it includes a weasel that has to endure like sexual, like terrible sexual things. A weasel? A weasel.
00:11:13
Speaker
Well, I am strapped on. I'm trapped in. Not using a strap on. I'm ready. I'm ready. I am, you know, I'm ready to hear about this weasel. I am intrigued. Yeah. I'm going to go ahead and start it with the fates and then Sam will bring in the furies at the end.
00:11:33
Speaker
So the fates, depending on which side of the pantheon you're looking at, if you're looking at the Roman, they were known as the Parsi. And if you're looking at the Greek side, they were originally known as the Morai. And in terms of the Morai, the word means share or portion of something.
00:11:50
Speaker
So it would translate to the apportioners, the ones who give to each, his own portion of life. And in terms of the Roman, parsi, this was kind of a mistranslation in the origin where the word actually stemmed from pars, which is Latin, and the translation is mora, which would be tied to the mori. But it was initially thought to be derived from
00:12:12
Speaker
which means to bring forth. So in the Roman pantheon, they were initially known as birth spirits. So like they would be there at the birth because they are in a lot of the stories, they are at the birth of gods and mortals like important mortals. So like the Romans thought that through the mistranslation, they thought that they were actually like birth spirits.
00:12:36
Speaker
And then later they transferred it over to the moray. That's interesting. Again, this just goes to show like how confusing a lot of their origins and their stories are. So you guys are just going to have to bear with me and hope that it all makes sense in the end.
00:12:53
Speaker
So just some of the basics and background. The fates are three sister goddesses who rule over destiny. And they're responsible for assigning mortals a destiny at their birth, along with their human lifespan and the timing of their deaths. Each person's fate is represented by a golden thread that is spun by the fates themselves. And when the thread is broken, it signifies the end of a person's life.
00:13:16
Speaker
So something to really like note about the fates is that the gods didn't interfere with them. They weren't able to like save their own mortal children's lives or the lives of any favored mortal. The fates' decisions to the gods were considered final. But on the flip side of that, the fates themselves have been noted to take action in intervening in a person's fate when they deemed it necessary. The fates were considered the most powerful deities within the Greek mythology.
00:13:42
Speaker
So who were their parents? Well, that's a that's a really great question. I'm still not sure. I was like digging and digging and digging trying to find like a solid answer. And it's just all over the place. So depending on the source, they are said to either be the daughters of Nix,
00:13:59
Speaker
or maybe even the daughters of Zeus and Themis. So in a text from 700 BCE, Hesiod listed the fates as both Nix's fatherless daughters and then later as the daughters of Zeus and Themis in the text Theogony, which is why their origins are super confusing because one single book actually has them listed as both, just at different points in the book. So of Nix,
00:14:25
Speaker
Hesiod wrote, she bore the destinies and ruthless fates, goddesses who track down the sense of men and gods and never cease from awful rage until they give the sinner punishment. But then again, later, he states, and shining famous was second wife, she bore the whore.
00:14:42
Speaker
order, blooming peace, and justice, who attended the works of men, and then the fates, to whom wise Zeus had paid the greatest honor, Clotho, Atropos, and Lachasys, who give men all good and bad." So it's believed by historians that the writing of the fates being born to Zeus and Thamus actually came after Hesiod's passing, and it was like written in by an unknown author who basically just didn't
00:15:07
Speaker
go back and make sure that, like, he had the information correct. He or she. I'm assuming he. But another funny note to this point is that even though Zeus claimed to be their father, and he referred to himself as the leader of the fates, like quote-unquote leader of the fates, most ancient writers didn't take him seriously, and two of these include Herodotus and Plato. One explanation that I read stated that older lore and mythology notes them as the daughters of Nyx, but then later lore
00:15:36
Speaker
mythology switch to Zeus and Themis being their parents, but there's like no explanation. There's no like, hey, this is why that happened. It's just, hey, this is a thing. So I'm still not sure, but that's what we've come up with. And then there's like one other text.
00:15:52
Speaker
So another one states that in terms of orphic cosmogony, their mother was said to have been a nanka or necessity. So really, it just, like, again, just depends on what version of the story is that you read, like, for who birthed the fates, who their parents are. And because of this, like, because their parents are questionable, so are their siblings. But one text states that the fates had 18 siblings. And these siblings were aether, nemesis,
00:16:34
Speaker
hold on just a second
00:16:38
Speaker
I just remember, I think it was sometime in season two because I know it was whenever we were living in Okinawa already. We mentioned on an episode or something, Feaky, and we pronounced it Dyke.
00:16:53
Speaker
I was looking at it right. I wasn't even going to look it up. I was like, I'm just going to read this. And then I was like, you know what? Something in my gut is telling me to look up the pronunciation of this. And I did. There's so many versions where they're like, even though it looks like Dyke, this goddess is pronounced Tiki. And I was like,
00:17:11
Speaker
Wow. We really screwed the pooch on that one. Who knows what episode that is. But also just for you guys know, this is literally the name is D I K E, which just as a normal human being looking and reading that I would literally say dyke. Yeah, I don't know why. But like the universe was nudging me to look this up. Right. So I did and like literally everyone was like, the
00:17:37
Speaker
And I was like, who knows that? Who knows that there's no one would know that. No one would know that. But yeah, so if we have any like, huge like Greco Roman listen, like followers who are, you know, are listeners who, you know, really follow that sort of like pantheon, sorry. Yeah, we try so hard to make sure that we are, you know, on top of it. And we're always like,
00:18:06
Speaker
trying to be culturally sensitive and making sure that we get these pronunciations right, but sometimes we just make mistakes. Yeah. I just had to point that out because whenever I watched you, I saw the pronunciation and the parentheses beside it on your notes, I was like, wait a second. What?
00:18:26
Speaker
So anyway, moving on. Sorry about that. That is their 18 siblings. And so basically, when we're looking at who they are individually, Clotho was known as the spinner because she spun the golden thread. Lacasis was known as the measurer or the apportioner because she measured the thread, which stood for time, which was the lifespan. And then a tropos is considered
00:18:54
Speaker
the unbending or the inflexible one, because she both chose the cause of death and then she would cut the thread when it was that person's time to die. And because of this, she was considered the most feared of the three.
00:19:07
Speaker
So they've each also been known to represent specific periods in time. So a tropos is the past, clotho is the present, and locosus is the future. But I don't know why each one of them represents those specific time periods. I couldn't really find that. I found multiple sources that were like, oh, this is the past, but not like why. So the three are often referred to as the daughters of night. And I'm assuming this is due to the mythology that Nyx is their mother.
00:19:37
Speaker
And throughout mythology, they were said to have ruled dark destinies of humankind. According to Pisanias, there was an altar to the fates in the grove of Evaninides. And just for you listeners, I'm gonna struggle today, okay? Because I want you to know this looks like humanides, but it's Evaninides.
00:19:58
Speaker
So there's that. And this is in Corinth. And this altar was said to be a place where people left offerings to them, as well as the sanctuary and thieves between the sanctuaries of Thamus and Zeus. There's also some text that alludes to there being a temple that was devoted to the fates Demeter and Persephone, where they were worshipped together and separately at each of their separate temples within the combined temple.
00:20:23
Speaker
and during an annual festival pregnant sheep were sacrificed, honey and water libations were poured, while flowers were worn in honor of the combined goddesses. So now we're going to get into a little of the mythology and I just want to like first note
00:20:40
Speaker
that there aren't a lot of mythologies. There's like pretty much no single mythology that's like, this is the fates and their origin and their story. The fates just kind of are interwoven into everyone else's stories. So the first mention of the fates in any written form was noted to be in the mention of the Morai, which is the fate or destiny in Homer's Iliad from 750 BCE.
00:21:06
Speaker
The Iliad notes that the Morai, or I'm sorry, the Mora, spun the thread for Hector, the Prince of Troy. And that's pretty much all it says about them.
00:21:15
Speaker
But it's just like, hey, they did this thing. And anyways, back to our story. The fates themselves are not prominently written about in any myth, yet they play a crucial role throughout various stories. And just as an example, they interact with multiple gods, and they were noted to be at the birth of various gods and mortals. And one of those is like, Hermes was said to have assisted the fates in creating the alphabet.
00:21:41
Speaker
but again it's not like hey the fates were doing this thing and here comes Hermes and helps them. It's like Hermes was on this journey and he did this thing and then he popped over and helped the fates make the alphabet and anyways he went back to his thing and it's like back to focusing on Hermes. So like we see them a lot and they have like prominent roles but it's just like no stories
00:22:01
Speaker
singly about them. So one of these stories is a point in time where the fates actually go to battle. So there's basically this revolt and it's known as the revolt of the giants in Taifeng. And this part gets like wild and it's going to be all over the place, so I apologize, but I'm going to do my best here.
00:22:19
Speaker
Basically it said that Gaia, or Earth, had grown angry at the victory of the Titans in the Titanomachy. So she basically goes and gets it on with Uranus, which is heaven, and together they birthed the giants, which were described as, and this is a quote, like a direct quote because it was too funny not to, fearsome beings with hair falling from their heads,
00:22:40
Speaker
and cheeks and feet made from dragon scales. And at their birth, an oracle stated that the gods would not be able to kill the giants unless they fought alongside a mortal ally, that ally being Hercules. So in this battle, it was noted that even the fates joined in in the fighting and that they fought with bronze clubs and that they actually killed the giants Agrios and Thun, though Zeus is noted to killing like all the rest of the giants. Like basically they were like, we got these too. And he's like, cool, I did the rest of them.
00:23:10
Speaker
and then they win. But in an act of vengeance at the death of the giants, Gaia then conceived Typhon.
00:23:17
Speaker
And he is a half man, half beast who surpassed all of Gaia's other children in size. Typhon unleashed a vicious attack on the heavens, causing the gods to flee to Egypt, where they were said to then transform into animals to hide from him. Zeus attacked him with thunderbolts from afar and then engaged him in hand-to-hand combat once he like weakens him. But then Zeus is trapped by Typhon, who cut his tendons from his hands and feet and then hid them in a bear skin?
00:23:47
Speaker
I'm not really sure, like, he's like, haha, I took these out and then like put some in a bear skin, but I don't really, like, there's no explanation farther. But then later, Hermes returns Zeus's tendons to him. And once Zeus is able to regain his strength, he then pursues Typhon to Mount Nissa,
00:24:04
Speaker
where the fates trick him into eating poisonous fruit, claiming that it would make him stronger. So he eats the poison fruit, it weakens him, and Zeus is finally able to kill him as he's attempting to escape across the Sicilian Sea, like basically Zeus throws the entire Mount Etna on top of him and it kills Typhon.
00:24:23
Speaker
all over the place wild but then like here it is this whole story of this like battle and we get two mentions of the fates and it's like oh look at like how pivotal they were to this story but like that's it that's all we get from them yeah they tricked them eating berries they fought with clubs and killed two giants so speaking of hercules the fates were actually present at the birth of hercules along with elithia who is the goddess of childbirth and their role was basically to stop alchemy from
00:24:53
Speaker
Giving birth to Hercules to appease Hera like she was like fuck that she's not gonna have that baby not allowed And so they're like, okay, so they go and they're like you can't have the baby. Well her friend Galentheus She was like a really good friend of alchemy lies and tells the fates that oh a male child was already born to Zeus and their divine privileges were revoked and the fates were like what we thought it was this one and she's like no no sillies and
00:25:21
Speaker
And they're like, oh, okay, no big deal. And so they like take her pain away because she was having like horrible birthing pains and they let her give birth. So when they learned that they had been tricked, they basically strip Galathenius' identity as a woman and they transform her into a weasel who was forced to undertake grotesque sexual and reproductive activities. Damn. Right? They're like, you're not going to play tricks on us. Hope you enjoy being a weasel.
00:25:51
Speaker
yeah like she was just trying to be a good friend like jesus christ
00:25:59
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. The next one where I found the fates kind of played a little wild crazy role here is their encounter with a young boy named Maliger. So Maliger was a Greek hero and the son of Onias, who was the king of Caledon. And his wife, Althea, who was the daughter of Thestios, and Thestios is the king of Anatolia.
00:26:22
Speaker
So basically when Malieger was seven days old, the fates appeared declaring that he would die when a log burning in the hearth stopped burning, like once the fire went out, like he's gonna die. So desperate to save her son, Althea takes the log and she hides it in a chest so that it'll never like burn completely out.
00:26:42
Speaker
So Malieger grows up into a strong man, but they were kind of wrong in thinking that they could change his fate, right? Because what the fates say, what they decide, that's the end-all be-all. So essentially, during an annual harvest, many of the area forgot to honor Artemis. And in her fury, she sent a large ferocious boar to the town to basically wreak havoc and destruction on the townspeople.
00:27:06
Speaker
and a hunt is organized with the bravest men and one woman whose name was Atlanta, I'm sorry, Adalanta, and she was a Greek heroine. So Adalanta is the first to strike the boar and then Maliger dealt the killing blow. So he basically takes the boar, he has it skinned, and he gives the pelt to Adalanta as a prize for being the first one to strike it. Well, this angered the sons of King Thestios because they believed that
00:27:35
Speaker
the prize should have gone to a man. Gross. Gross. Just reading what you wrote there, sorry. So Malieger just was like, you know what? Fuck it. And he kills them. So he kills all of his uncles because they're just being gross. So grieving the death of her brothers and in a fit of rage, Althea removes the log from the chest and rekindles it, which resulted in the death of her son Malieger as it burned out just as the fates originally proclaimed.
00:28:05
Speaker
Damn, like she didn't, I feel like that's an important one to like, not rekindle, but like, were you that mad? Yeah, apparently, like, kill my brothers. So I'm gonna kill you, my son. That doesn't make sense. Yeah, and then I found another instance in which the fates were once again tricked.
00:28:29
Speaker
So Apollo, upon learning that Admetis, his favorite, was destined to die, he gets the fates drunk and he was able to persuade them to spare Admetis's life. So basically they tell him, if you can find a substitute for his death, we'll spare his life.
00:28:47
Speaker
And spoiler, he doesn't find a substitute, but out of her love for her husband, Admitus' wife, I did not look up how to say her name, but I think it's Alcest, Alcestis, Alcestis. We're going to go with Alcestis. She volunteered to take his place. So like out of the love that she had for her husband, she volunteered to die in his stead so that he could live.
00:29:11
Speaker
Oh, that's really sad. But also, also, if he is the favorite of Apollo, you know, they were doing some freaky, geeky shit. So she the whole time she was being cheated on anyway, probably honestly, man, he was able to trick them by getting them drunk and getting them to agree to a deal which no one was ever able to do. So
00:29:33
Speaker
Artistically, the fates were originally portrayed as being young and very attractive women, though over time there was a shift in the art world, and artists began creating them to appear as older women containing a serious demeanor. And the latter version is basically how they appeared throughout literature, so it was more in line with how they actually looked.
00:29:55
Speaker
Regardless of their physical appearance though, there are constant themes in the art overall. So most art will portray them as weaving or binding thread, which obviously, you know, they held the threads of life.
00:30:09
Speaker
Some art depicts at least one of them, but sometimes all of them, reading or writing in the Book of Fate. And there are also some points where they were portrayed as young, middle-aged, and older, like enter the maiden mother crone. And then just a random fact that I found that I also found interesting. There's actually three asteroids named after the fates, and they're located in the central asteroid belt
00:30:35
Speaker
and orbit between Mars and Jupiter. And those are 97 clotho, 120 locuses, and 273 atropos. Oh, I like that. Very interesting.
00:30:47
Speaker
They were they were like kind of wild cards when it came to their stories there of course to like if you're interested in them Definitely look on them up because there was like 80 billion Stories that they were like woven into but again like if I told them all we'd be here all day Yeah, my notes are already pretty long. So we're just gonna
00:31:10
Speaker
Well, and speaking of like, there are some, even though the Faith and the Furies are two different sets of, I guess, deities, goddesses, whatever, there is some overlap between the stories, at least with like some of the, and some of your research, some of the things that you had mentioned, which we'll get to, and it'll probably be like, Oh, wow, this is kind of familiar. But for the most part, not at all, like similar, but
00:31:35
Speaker
a few things, I was just like, that sounds a lot like what they say about the Furies. Yeah, which I told you I was worried about when we chose to do the Fates and the Furies because they are so interwoven throughout mythology. I was worried that we were both going to have all the same information and then we'd be like, well, this is a five-minute episode. Right. Yeah. Bye. Have a great day. But no, totally different. They do different things, but there's some things where I'm like,
00:32:02
Speaker
Sounds familiar. So yeah, so let's talk about the Furies. These are also known as the Erinyes, and they're three goddesses of vengeance and retribution who would punish men for crimes committed that went against the natural order. So these are things like homicide, offenses against the gods, perjury, and unfilial conduct. And I had to look this up because I was like, I don't know what the fact that means.
00:32:28
Speaker
And it says basically, unfilial conduct is when you're not observing the obligations of a parent or of a child to a parent. So basically being undutiful.
00:32:40
Speaker
But it also states that this worked both ways, though. So not just a child's responsibility to do what their family expects them to do and care for their elders, et cetera. But it also would apply to shit parents who didn't take care of their children. OK. So that made me feel a bit better, because at first I was like, come on. You want to put that on the kid?
00:32:59
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. They also didn't care for people who were obsessed with hatred and malice or who were deceitful. The whole going against the natural order, this could have even been something as simple as punishing those who grabbed chicks out of a bird's nest. It could be simple things to really terrible things. They would basically come and
00:33:22
Speaker
seek retribution for. And one of their most important tasks was to stalk offenders. And so we'll get into that a little bit. But in Greek mythology, there are many different versions of where they came from and how they were born. One story states that they were born out of the blood of the Titan Uranus when he was castrated by his son Cronus, which is gross. Another story is that Hades and Persephone were considered their parents. And another version is that the Furies were the daughters of the night.
00:33:52
Speaker
which reminds me of what you know we were just talking about and Sophocles believed that they were the daughters of the earth and darkness.
00:34:02
Speaker
I think it's so funny, like not only like the Daughters of the Night thing, but like their origin stories, both the Faiths and the Furies. It's like they might have had this parent or maybe it was this one or maybe this person. It's like we don't really know. They were just there. Yeah. And so they were regarded as ancient divinities and they represented a time from a much older world order because they were understood to be even older than the Olympians, which also doesn't quite make sense if they were like the
00:34:30
Speaker
Children of Hades and Persephone because they would pre date that so yeah, there's just many different iterations of how they came to be just like with.
00:34:40
Speaker
the fates. It just depends on what version of the story you're reading. It really does. Trying to learn about these. I feel like we encounter this a lot, especially when we're talking about witchcraft or pagan origins. It's very hard to really nail down the truth of the matter, essentially. It makes it hard to learn these things.
00:35:04
Speaker
Yes, it really does. So moving on to how they were depicted, I pulled this quote directly from Ecyclists because I thought it was pretty funny. He portrayed them as wingless in appearance, black altogether, disgusting. They snore with repulsive breaths. They drip from their eyes, hateful drops. Their attire is not fit to bring either before the statues of gods or into the homes of men.
00:35:31
Speaker
And so just kind of compiling all of the information that is on the internet about the Furies and how they look. They were depicted as ugly winged women or demons with hair, arms, and waist entwined with poisonous serpents. The sisters wielded whips and were clothed in either the long black robes of mourners or sometimes short length skirts and boots that were often worn by huntresses or maidens.
00:35:56
Speaker
And they had the ability to transform quickly and often. And they were also depicted as having black skin and their faces were frightening and
The Furies: Appearances and Roles in Mythology
00:36:04
Speaker
horrific. And some stories state that their hair was also made out of snakes, much like the Gorgon Medusa. So really just emphasis on ugly and snakes. But whenever I look up images of them,
00:36:17
Speaker
They actually seemed beautiful to me. Like I didn't think they looked that repulsive, but I don't know. And then only some said that they were, you know, had like the whole black skin. And I don't know if it's like, um, it reminded me so much of like in Queen of the Damned whenever the, when Akasha
00:36:37
Speaker
was like dying and her whole, like this chrome black, like even her eyes. That's what that kind of reminded me of. But yeah, I don't know. But they seemed kind of pretty whenever I looked them online. Like I was just like, they don't seem that bad. And then some of like the cartoon drawings of them, they seemed really cool looking, but yeah.
00:36:55
Speaker
So Euripides describes the three furies as electo. She is the anthropomorphism of rage and mania. She is the fury that delivers the punishment of moral crimes, especially if the crime is directed against other people. Tysivani is the anthropomorphism of revenge to killings and is the punisher of murderers. And Megara
00:37:20
Speaker
is the anthropomorphism of hatred and envy and she punished especially those who committed marital infidelity and get it girl yes
00:37:30
Speaker
Get it? So those were the three Furies named. A victim who wanted to seek justice would call down the curse of the Aryanese or the Furies on the perpetrator. In terms of their wrath, and possibly because one of the myths surrounding their origin was the whole castration thing, they were primarily motivated to intervene when family crimes and blood guilt occurred.
00:37:54
Speaker
And so they exacted the most vicious punishments on those who murdered a family member, especially if it was a family member that was an elder, like a father, a mother, a grandparent, etc. And the wrath manifested in many ways. The most severe way was inflicting a tormenting madness on the perpetrator of a patricide or a matricide. And murders would suffer illnesses or disease. And if a fugitive was being harbored, the nation harboring the criminal would suffer hunger and disease as well.
00:38:22
Speaker
Which I thought that's kind of fucked up because it's like not everybody agreed to hide this person and you're going to finish the whole fucking land. Like that's all everyone, every single person. Yeah. Crazy. They carried out curses as well and also personified curses.
00:38:38
Speaker
They were invoked as guarantors of oaths, and they prevented humans from learning too much about the future. They were also able to take away a person's reason and bring about blindness and madness. And they also contained the power to destroy or bestow fertility, which I could see being a punishment for somebody who doesn't want to get pregnant. Me. Right. That would be like the worst punishment you could give me. You could give me.
00:39:09
Speaker
So don't, I guess, perform matricide, and you won't have to worry about that. I will do my best. Their breath was also considered poisonous, so two was the foam that would come out of their mouths, which sounds disgusting. Sounds like babies. Yes, it does.
00:39:31
Speaker
They breathed flames and they were also responsible for spreading all sorts of illnesses and preventing plants from growing full stop. So they were really pissed off in an area and you were harboring that fugitive. You just would die from hunger and disease. No plants for you. No plants. No oxygen. No food. You're just fucked. No medicine.
00:39:52
Speaker
They were feared so much in the ancient world and once they caught the scent of a horrific crime, they were very hard to placate. And the only way to really pacify the wrath of the Furies was to perform a purification rite ritual and completing a task that was assigned for atonement purposes. That was really like the only way to get them off your fucking case.
00:40:12
Speaker
There are also said to be servants of Hades and Persephone. In the underworld, they oversaw the torture of criminals who resided in the dungeons of the damned. And it was even written by Heraclitus that the Herenes or the Furies had control over cosmic justice within the underworld. And whenever I just want to point out, whenever I was reading this word Heraclitus, all I could think of was that fucking vine of that little kid at the Spelling Bee, and he was having to spell
00:40:42
Speaker
Do you know what I'm talking about? It's so funny. And that's great. I haven't thought about that in so long. Yeah. That's all I can think about. And I'm just like, why do I know how to say that word already? I know. Because of a line of a little guy. Yeah.
00:41:00
Speaker
So to ancient Greeks, the Furies were a personification of the remorse and guilt that quote-unquote filled the soul and mind of an injustice, an evil, or a criminal. So essentially it was proof to ancient Greeks that the eye of divine justice sees all and revenge will be had.
00:41:17
Speaker
Even if a perpetrator feels like they were safe, the Arrhenies or the Furies would show up when they least expected it and would pursue them until they went crazy. And so again, I'm just going to say just really two examples of the Furies within mythology because if I went through everything that's listed online, we'd be here all day. It's just like with the Fates where
00:41:40
Speaker
There really isn't just like one website or one book you can read that's just essentially all about the Furies. They are just spread through all different Greco-Roman mythology. So I picked just two well-known examples
00:41:56
Speaker
in mythology where they are listed. So in Homer's Iliad, the god Aries was pursued by the Furies because he helped the Trojans against the wishes of his mother Hera. So he, you know, obviously was doing that whole unfeelial conduct by not prescribing to the wishes of his parents. And then Orestes was Agnamimnon's son and he was chased by the Furies in their personification of vengeance because he murdered his mother for his mother
00:42:24
Speaker
murdering his father, which was Agamemnon. Essentially, Agamemnon sacrificed Orestes' sister to Artemis in exchange for good weather so they could sail to Troy to fight in the Trojan War. Just fucked up. Like, are you joking me? For good weather.
00:42:39
Speaker
Yeah, for good weather. And Orestes' mother murdered Agamemnon in retribution for sacrificing their daughter. And so what did Orestes do? He murdered his mother. So like basically, it's just like a whole family of like murdering. And so he was just absolutely tormented by the Furies. And the only way like he was able to pacify them with the help of Apollo and Athena, and they helped him go through the steps to become purified and do that that ritual so that they would leave
00:43:09
Speaker
him alone. Which I don't know why. Why would you be that upset for your mom killing your dad because your dad sacrificed your sister? You should be on your mom's side, but whatever. That's just what I think. Because men. Yeah, because men. Gross.
00:43:25
Speaker
So lastly, just wanted to touch on how they were worshipped. So temples and sanctuaries were constructed in the region of Attica and in Athens.
Worship and Rituals Surrounding the Furies
00:43:34
Speaker
And the spot in Athens where there was a temple in honor of the Furies was close to a spot where the Athenians tried murder cases. And so it was traditional for defendants who had been acquitted of murder to leave offerings for the Furies at their temple. And they also, this
00:43:51
Speaker
This reminded me of what you were saying about the fates, this specifically. They also had festivals in honor of the Furies, and they were celebrated in Greek cities like Athens and in Sision, and it involved animal sacrifices, but sometimes the sacrifice was a pregnant woman. Oh, ours were pregnant sheep. I mean, that's so much better, but also terrible, but you know what I mean? Also terrible, but better than a pregnant lady. Right?
00:44:17
Speaker
And they would also include things like flower garlands and nephalia, which I had to look up that word because I didn't know what the fuck it was. But it's a term for a religious word for libations where wine was not offered or the use of one was forbidden. Instead, they would use water, milk, honey and oil or any combination of those as nephalia offerings.
00:44:38
Speaker
That's the same as with ours. Yeah, with the fates. But I didn't see that that term wasn't used. It just said water and honey libations. And I was like, that's an interesting because normally it is like, especially when we're talking about gods and goddesses, it's some kind of mead or wine or you know, so I thought it was interesting that for them it was water and honey, but also like now for you too, it's milk and honey and water.
00:45:06
Speaker
Yeah, and know like the use of wine would be considered forbidden or something like yeah, I wonder what it is specifically about these two sets of goddesses or deities or however they're looked at like why specifically these two
00:45:25
Speaker
there's no alcohol, which is typically the norm for a god of darkness. I'm not sure. I wonder if, I don't know, I can't even think of really any reason. The only thing I could think of is maintaining that clear head and clear focus, and you need it for both the fates and the furies. I could see maybe that, but yeah, it's interesting. But even with the fates, obviously they
00:45:48
Speaker
at least one time because they were tricked by being, you know, getting drunk and then agreeing to a deal. But yeah, that's an interesting thing. I would be interested to know, like, why, but I definitely did not come across anything about it.
00:46:05
Speaker
Yeah, I wonder if like, at least for the fates, because they had been tricked before, maybe it's like, well, they took great, like, like precautions. Yeah. Yeah. Or, you know, just because like, they had been tricked before, and yeah, respectful or something. So now whenever they are wanting to, like, actually honor them, yeah, make sure to not include alcohol,
00:46:28
Speaker
But I don't know why it would be that way for the Furies, but- Yeah, it's an interesting thing to see when it's not the norm, and for it to be with both, not just one. Right, yeah. And so there's a little bit of an overlapping in these, but yeah, so this is the-
00:46:47
Speaker
the fates and the furies. It was definitely a fun one. I really enjoyed reading through the messy mythology for the fates. It was all over the place. No one knows who their parents really are. They have 80 billion siblings because that's the case. It was fun. It was definitely fun. I liked this one.
00:47:17
Speaker
That's it for this episode of Get In Loser, We're Doing Witchcraft. You can find our source material for this episode linked in the show notes. If you love this episode, we would be forever thankful if you leave us a five-star review on wherever you listen to your podcasts. If you really love the show and want more Get In Loser content, check out our Supercast link provided in the show notes or search the Supercast website for Get In Loser, We're Doing Witchcraft.
00:47:39
Speaker
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00:47:57
Speaker
And that's a wrap on Season 2 of Get In Loser We're Doing Witchcraft. We want to express our deepest gratitude to our dedicated listeners and our amazing Supercast subscribers. It's you who make all of this possible, and we couldn't have done it without your support. Stay tuned for updates about Season 3, which will drop in January, and keep your eyes peeled for a special bonus episode dropping as a Christmas present from us to you. Until then, blessed be, witches.