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Captain America: Civil War
164 Plays4 years ago
They say the book is always better than the movie, but that’s definitely NOT the case with Captain America: Civil War. Perry and Derrick go in-depth into all the amazing character dynamics, the introductions of Black Panther and Spider-Man into the MCU, one of the best villains yet, and—of course—the big-ass airport fight scene!
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Transcript
Audible Promotion and Recommendations
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, Derek, guess what? Hit me with it. We just got a promotion with Audible. Audible, fantastic. I love Audible. Do you know what the cool thing about this deal is? What's that? If our listeners go to audibletrial.com slash supercinemapod, they get a free trial with Audible. And do you know what they get with that?
00:00:22
Speaker
What do they get with that? Tell me. They get one free audiobook of their choice and they get two free Audible Originals, which is special content that Audible makes available free for all its subscribers. Are you kidding me? That deal is so good I may go myself and sign them. Do you think they let you keep the books after you're done?
00:00:42
Speaker
No, you're not gonna tell me they let you keep the books after you're done. Yes, in fact, you can go sign up for a trial and you can cancel before the trial ends and you get to keep the books you've already downloaded.
00:00:55
Speaker
Well, I don't see how you can beat that with a stick. Exactly, yeah. And you can, lots of great books, especially for fans of the show. You can listen to Super Gods by Grant Morrison, which is all about like how the superhero comics have changed and evolved over time. Or you can check out Marvel Comics, The Untold Story. Which is a terrific book. I have that both in hardcover and I listened to that on Audible myself in my car while traveling back and forth.
00:01:21
Speaker
And there's also another similar book that's called Slugfest, which is about like the wars between Marvel and DC Comics. Oh, okay. So that's another one you gotta check out too. So yeah, head on over to audibletrial.com slash supercinemapod and start your free trial right now. You got one free audio book and two free Audible originals and you can keep them even if you cancel before it's over.
00:02:04
Speaker
Hey, you want to see something cool? I pulled something from Dad's archives. Well, timely. After you were assigned a lend lease bill with these in 1941, provided support to the airlines when they needed it most, some would say it brought our country closer to war. See if enough of these you wouldn't be here. I'm trying to...
00:02:32
Speaker
What do you call it? That's an olive branch. Is that what you call it? It's pepper here. I didn't see it. We're kind of, well, not kind of pregnant. No, definitely not. We're taking a break. It's nobody's fault. I'm so sorry, Tony. I didn't know. A few years ago, I almost lost her, so I trashed all my suits.
00:03:00
Speaker
Then we had to mop up Hydra, and then Ultron. My fault. And then, and then, and then, I never stopped. Because the truth is, I don't want to stop. I don't want to lose her. I thought maybe the accords could split the difference. You didn't hurt a fence on my handful. Yeah, Dad was a pain in the ass, but he and Mom always made it work. You know, I'm glad Howard got married.
00:03:31
Speaker
I only knew him when he was young and single. Oh, really? You two knew each other? He never mentioned that. Maybe only a thousand times. God, I hate you. I don't mean to make things difficult. I know, because you're a very polite person. If I see a situation pointed south, I can't ignore it. Sometimes I wish I could. No, you don't.
00:04:00
Speaker
Sometimes. Sometimes I want to punch you in your perfect teeth. But I don't want to see you gone. We need you, Cap. So far, nothing's happened that can't be undone if you sign. We can make the last 24 hours legit. Barnes gets transferred to an American psych center instead of a Wakanda in prison.
00:04:32
Speaker
I'm not saying it's impossible, but they would have to be safeguards. Sure. Once we put out the PR fire, those documents can be amended. I'd follow motion. Have you and Wanda reinstated? Wanda? What about Wanda? She's fine. She's confined to the compound currently. Vision's keeping her company. Oh, god. Tony, every time. Every time I think you see her, it's the right way. What if 108 girls with a lap pull, it's got a screening room. There's worse ways to protect people. Protection?
00:04:57
Speaker
Is that how you see this? This is protection? It's internment. She's not a U.S. citizen and they don't grant visas to weapons of mass destruction. She's a kid! Give me a break! I'm doing what has to be done to stave off something worse. You keep telling yourself that. Hate to break up the set.
Introductions and Personal Updates
00:05:25
Speaker
Welcome to the Superhero Cinephiles podcast. I am half of your host, Perry Constantine. And as usual, and as always, I am the other half, Derek Ferguson. How are you doing today, Derek? I am doing quite well. Thank you for asking, sir. How are you doing and how's the family doing? I'm doing good. Family's doing good. Wife's in a little bit of pain because the baby's growing and moving around a lot and punching her, punching and kicking her a lot. They do tend to do that. Yeah.
00:05:56
Speaker
So yeah, the baby's moving on, we can feel it moving. It's definitely got a lot of energy in it, so. Maybe you got a future soccer player. You know what, I joke with her because Colton always like jokingly punches me and stuff like that and like, you know, always joking, teasing me and all that. And I'm like, and now the baby's like, you know, punching her all the time. And I'm like, see, the baby's getting revenge. It's standing up for its daddy. And there you go, before the union pops out. Yeah, yeah. You can pick it up for daddy. Yeah.
00:06:25
Speaker
All right. But yeah, it's good. Hopefully, so we're recording this on a Saturday. Hopefully, on Monday, we're going in for the next sonogram. And we think we might find out for sure if it's going to be a boy or girl at that time. OK, cool. So yeah, we're excited about that. That's going to be fun. Of course. Listen, when you just find out about it, don't burn down any forest. Oh, no, no, definitely not. Yeah.
00:06:55
Speaker
You know, my sister asked me, you know, months ago, are you going to do a gender reveal party?
Societal Critique and Generational Comparisons
00:06:59
Speaker
I'm like, yeah, it's called announcing it on Facebook. I don't get these like gender reveal parties and all that crap. I'm like, just like, who cares? I mean, you know what? We take it. I don't know. There's there are so many things about this country, which, as I said, not to get too political. Well, maybe we should, because
00:07:22
Speaker
the movie that we're going to be talking about. Oh, it's a very political movie. Yeah. Very political movie. So just let me throw this in. If there's one thing, maybe the only thing that I can say I appreciate about the Trump administration is that it has pulled the cover of a lot of the hypocrisy of Americans. Yeah. Now I'm talking about the people.
00:07:43
Speaker
Not the institution, not the dream. I'm talking about the people that live in America. A lot of the covers have been pulled off of how Americans really think and feel about themselves, about this country and the other people that they're supposed to care about in this country.
00:08:09
Speaker
We have found out that we're a bunch of selfish bastards. Oh, yeah. We really are. Yeah. Bunch of selfish, non-caring bastards who really are, you know, pay a lot of lip service to how much we care about other people and how much we look out for individuals. And you do have a lot of people that do, but I think a surprisingly amount of people have been revealed to be very self-centered and only interested in what they want. Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:37
Speaker
Oh, I think I think that's definitely true. Like, you know, people saying like, oh, we're this is not who we are. I'm like, well, actually, yeah, it kind of is who we are. But we should be doing better. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, you know, listen, we're not perfect. None of us are perfect. And we all know this. We're not perfect. But you know what I I think the Trump administration has revealed that we're also not as good as we like
00:09:02
Speaker
to believe that we are. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You know, we're not as good. We're not as good. We're not as resilient. We're not as willing to make sacrifices as previous generations did. You know, previous generations, whenever the country was in a state of crisis. I mean, you had people who were eager to make sacrifices. We are not so eager to make sacrifices anymore. You know, we are too addicted to our pleasures and our technology
00:09:32
Speaker
and too addicted to the concept of the individual overall. Yeah. Yeah. Which, again, I don't have a problem with. Yeah. But you know what? I have seen the red instances during this pandemic where people have taken this notion of the individual a little bit too far. Oh, definitely. Yeah.
00:10:00
Speaker
you know, there's this old saying that you're right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty much what I believe. Oh, definitely. Yeah. As long as you're not hurting anybody, that's fine. Do whatever you want. But when you're starting to, you know, cause problems for other people, then that's, that's when you're taking it too far. Exactly. And my wife would tell you,
00:10:27
Speaker
I'm pretty much a live and let live guy to a fault. I really pretty much don't care what you do as long as you don't do it in the middle of the road and scare the horses, or you're not doing it to kids, but some of the stuff that I've seen in red, it's like, okay, it's opened up my eyes to a lot of stuff that I thought... And really, I've lived through a lot. I thought I had seen it all, but the general selfishness
00:10:56
Speaker
of Americans is really something to behold. So I'm trying to see what news we got coming up. A little
Impact of Pandemic on Movies
00:11:09
Speaker
bit of Adam Sandler news, because we talked about him last week, apparently he's doing
00:11:14
Speaker
another comedy movie that just, the trailer just came out. It's coming out in October. So he's continuing the, looks like he's going back to the well again after, apparently he didn't, after the Oscars, we were talking about his Uncut Gems. He swore that he was going to make the worst movie ever after that. That's what I heard. I, the story I heard was that he said if he did not win the Academy Award for best actor for Uncut Gems, he was going to go back to Netflix and he was going to make the worst movie ever made.
00:11:45
Speaker
Yeah. Well, listen, I mean, you know, Uncut Jim's, I'm sorry, I saw that, I watched that as I related and I, for two hours he did a very bad Al Pacino, you know, which I didn't think he deserved an Academy Award. I really did.
00:12:04
Speaker
Yeah. And I heard New Mutants has done pretty well. It looks like it's doing, well, I mean, all things considered, doing pretty well at the box office. And, which I'm looking forward to seeing that, you know, once it eventually comes out to streaming. The way I heard it, it did better than they thought it was going to do in the pandemic. Yeah. Apparently a lot more people turned out. Well, you know what? You've had people
00:12:30
Speaker
like all good buddy Tobias Christopher, who's been waiting for this movie for what, like two, three years? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, you had a lot of X fans and New Mutant fans and, you know, that really were waiting for this movie. In fact, in fact, I heard he did better than the other movie, which is kind of disappointing. Oh, Tenet? Yeah, Tenet. Yeah, Tenet had apparently like the worst opening weekend ever.
00:12:59
Speaker
You know what? Okay. Here's my thing. And I've discussed this for some time. Oh, wait. I know. So it's the lowest opening weekend of no one's career. That's what it says here. Yeah. My feeling was that everything should have just been pushed back to next summer. You see, Fast and Furious 9, they did that right out the box. They said, you know what? Okay. We'll just go away to next year. Bingo. Bing, bang, boom. Get it over with. And now Wonder Woman 1984 has been pushed back to Christmas. Yeah. And then, um,
00:13:25
Speaker
Uh, what else was it? Uh, Mulan came out on Disney Plus, but I'm not, you're not, you can't pay me to see that movie because of all the, they, like they, like the, the actress is like, you know, supporting the, the, is against the democracy protests in Hong Kong. And then it turns out they were, they were using like the help of like the Chinese propaganda departments and all that kind of stuff and making that movie. So that movie is getting a lot of shit right now.
Mulan and Political Controversy
00:13:50
Speaker
And, and you know what? Okay. Here's another thing.
00:13:55
Speaker
The movie is going to be available to be seen in December. You don't have to pay extra for it. It's going to be, you know, Disney is going to, you know, stream it regularly. You know what? And I've had people tell me, yeah, well, you don't have kids. You understand? I said, listen, kids are not. My kid would have just had to understand. Listen.
00:14:16
Speaker
There's a pandemic going, daddy's not working, money ain't coming in like it. You just got to wait till December. Yeah, yeah. Go back and watch the animated movie. Yeah. And when December comes, you'll see it, really. And from everything I've heard, it seems that the animated movie is a much better choice to watch anyway.
00:14:33
Speaker
I, okay, I know people who have seen it and they actually were kind of really surprised because they said this is not a kids movie at all. It's like a straight war movie for, you know, grown-ups. Yeah. You know, that's what they were saying. They said they were watching, I mean, you know, with their kids and their kids was like, you know, this isn't Mulan, you know, where's the cute dragon? Where's all the happy, where's Eddie Murphy? Right, exactly. This is, you know, they said this is more like a straight up, straight up and down serious war movie.
00:15:03
Speaker
You know, so yeah, so a lot of people, they were, yeah, the movie's getting its share of, I mean, you know, controversy. Yeah, yeah. And what else? Oh, I got to see Bill and Ted. Bill and Ted face the music. Oh, how is that? Oh, it's so much fun. It's so good. Yeah, I've been holding on from seeing that until I get some feedback from it, even though, you know what?
00:15:33
Speaker
I love the first movie. The second movie, I liked it. I didn't love it, but I love the first movie. You know what I say, give the second movie another chance, because it's actually so much better than a lot of people remember or give it credit. Oh, it's not a bad movie. You know, I mean, I just didn't. But I'm planning on watching all three anyway. You know, I'm just waiting until I get like, stop running around and I get like an afternoon. Right. I can really sit down, just watch like the whole trilogy. Yeah.
00:16:02
Speaker
That's all I'm waiting for. But so far, I mean, um, you just said it was pretty good. And everybody I know that's seen it said the same thing. They say, Oh, man, you're gonna love it. Yeah, it's wonderful. I'm wonderful. Yeah, so much fun. So much fun. All right. Okay, but, uh,
00:16:18
Speaker
And speaking of good movies, now we're going with my pick for this week, which I wasn't intending to pick this, but once we learned about what happened to Chadwick Boseman and how he passed away, sadly and tragically, I figured this is the best time to do this movie, because we already covered Black Panther.
Honoring Chadwick Boseman
00:16:37
Speaker
a few months back we were doing Black History Month and so we decided this time you know we can't do Black Panther again so instead let's do the superhero movie that you know his second biggest movie in as far as like screen time goes in at Marvel and that's you know Captain America Civil War.
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah, well, this was the movie where we actually see him as the Black Panther for the first time. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so this is like his debut in the Marvel Universe. And this was actually my introduction to him as an actor, because I'd never seen anything else he'd been in before this. Neither had I. I don't really recall the scene. Well, yeah, he didn't. I mean, he didn't get his other movie roles like 42 and get on up and.
00:17:23
Speaker
Marshall. And Marshall, he didn't get them until after this one. Didn't 42 come out before this? I'm pretty sure if 42 and Marshall came out before this. I'll take your word for it. I don't, but like you said, yeah, this was like really, this is the first movie. Let me put it this way. This is the first movie I remember seeing. Yeah, yeah. 42, okay, so 42 was 2013. Getting up was 2014. And Marshall was, Marshall was 2017. So Marshall came after this one.
00:17:51
Speaker
Okay. But 42 and get on up or before this. Okay. Okay. So yeah. But yeah, and then he did, he did some other stuff too. Like he was in Spike Lee's, what was it? The direct to, it was direct to Netflix, wasn't it? The war movie he did. What was that? The Five Bloods? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that just came out recently. Right. Yeah. No, I'm not talking about like before that. I'm just talking about like other stuff he's been in. Oh yeah. Yeah. No.
00:18:17
Speaker
I mean, he did that, and he did this other movie. I remember, I can't remember the name of it, but he plays like some dignitary or something going for, like tracking down people who killed his sister or something for revenge. I can't remember the name of it. Oh, Message to the King. Message to the King, yeah. Yeah, okay, yeah, I did see that. That was on Netflix. I saw that on Netflix, yeah. How was that? That was very good. I liked that, yeah, I liked that a lot. I remember seeing that and watching the trailer, and I'm just like, holy shit, this is like, you know,
00:18:46
Speaker
Black Panther in Harlem or something like that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's a good one. I'm trying to think of why I didn't see Get On Up in the movie theater because I didn't see it until it was on
00:19:00
Speaker
Did I see it on Blu-ray or did I see? For some reason, I don't remember seeing it in the movie theater. And I'm a huge James Brown fan. And I heard good things about the movie. But for some reason, I didn't see it in the movie theater. As a matter of fact, I didn't see it until after I saw this movie.
00:19:19
Speaker
And then I saw Get On Up. OK. Yeah, I'm going to have to check those out, because I actually haven't seen them either. Oh, yeah. I watched Get On Up, what was it, last week. And I mean, I thought his performance was phenomenal before. But now, knowing that he had cancer and he did it, you look at, I mean, the physical stuff that he does, because he's got James Brown's moves down. I mean, Cole. Yeah.
00:19:45
Speaker
you know, he doesn't do the singing though. That's the actual voice that you hear singing. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's understand. There's only a few, like no one can really imitate James Brown. No, no. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and me, my thing is when you're doing a biopic
00:20:04
Speaker
Okay, unless you get somebody who actually can do some kind of close approximation of the person that you're doing, you know, just have them lip sync. I don't care, you know, I don't mind. I don't care, you know, and I would rather see a good lip syncing performance than see a bad singing performance. Oh, absolutely. Yes, you know, but that's just me. I mean, you know,
00:20:28
Speaker
I'm weird that way folks. No, no, I think you're, I'm the exact same way. I definitely, I'd rather have the, have the lip sync as opposed to a bad, a bad actual performance. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, unless you have somebody like, okay, Vincent, what's his name? What was that movie? You know, Jamie Foxx, Ray.
00:20:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. OK, now Jamie Faust can sing. Yes. That's exactly the example I was going to go to as well. Right. And he actually worked with Ray Charles. Right. Yeah. He had that option. Right. He had that option. So yeah. So that was good because he came close to being Ray Charles. I mean, I couldn't close my eyes and say, OK, well, I can't tell the difference. But he was close enough that it made no difference. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He was wonderful in that movie. Oh, yeah. That was a great movie. Yeah.
00:21:18
Speaker
Okay. And now this movie is based on, you know, it's based on a, got a pretty infamous basis, which is the Civil War crossover.
Civil War: Comics vs. Movie
00:21:32
Speaker
And I don't know about you, but when they announced that Civil War was, cause I remember when they did that announcement and the first announcement when they, for anyone who doesn't remember, back when they were announcing this whole slate of Marvel movies, they got to the third Captain America movie.
00:21:44
Speaker
And they had done up a fake logo. And the original logo they had up was Captain America's Serpent Squad, or Serpent Society, or one of the two. And I thought, oh, that's cool. They're going to bring the Serpent Society into the movies. And I was excited about that. And then they changed. And they're like, no, we're just kidding. We're actually going to do Civil War. And I'm like, I kind of wanted to see Serpent Society instead.
00:22:13
Speaker
You go around kicking your, you go around kicking your pebbles all the time. I won. You're the only one going out. I was the only one. Everyone's like, oh yeah, I'm glad they did that fake out. I'm like, I'm not. Yeah, I'm not. Oh man, you're true.
00:22:35
Speaker
God, I want to see Death Adder on the big screen, man. Yeah, I mean, hey, listen, that would have been cool. It would have been. Hey, Death Adder was Snake Eyes before there was a Snake Eyes. Yeah, that would have been cool. Yeah, so I was a little bit disappointed in that, especially because I hate Civil War. It's one of the worst comic books ever made. I have no idea why so many people like that piece of shit.
00:23:03
Speaker
It was a very, I didn't read it myself. I didn't read it because by that time I really wasn't reading Marvel or DC. And from the premise that I read, I didn't care for it either. I said, you know, it was, you know why? Because DC and Marvel were like in this period where
00:23:25
Speaker
the superheroes weren't battling super-villains anymore. They were fighting each other all the time. Right, yeah. And quite frankly, I didn't want to see it. Yeah, I got nothing against superheroes having disagreements and arguing. And because that's what civil war is. I mean, everybody is, they got the different points of view. But I just don't want to see that all the time. Right, yeah.
00:23:52
Speaker
Now, in this movie, when we see it, it was a refreshing change, because first of all, let me just say that I don't like the title, because personally, for me, I think it should be Avengers Civil War. Because to me, this is an Avengers movie. Well, I can see your point with that, but I do think the title makes sense, because Cap is still the major focus. And the Avengers are there, but they're very much supporting characters.
00:24:23
Speaker
in some of the other, in like the Avengers movies where it's much more ensemble. This is not an ensemble movie. Cap is there. I think so, yeah. I mean, you get moments with some of the other Avengers, like they do a lot of good stuff with Hawkeye. They do a lot of good stuff with Wanda and Vision, but even still in the grand scheme of things, like they are minor characters. They're supporting players in it.
00:24:47
Speaker
But the main thrust of the story, it's still all about Cap and his relationships, right? It's about his relationship with Tony, his relationship with Bucky, his relationship with Peggy and with Sam. And those relationships are really what drive the story. So that's why I think it does still make sense to call the Captain America movie. Oh, yeah. I mean, well, of course, it's part of Captain America thing. And
00:25:10
Speaker
You have a valid point. I just think my thing has always been, and I've said this to you before and I've said to other people, that I think this movie works equally as well as a Captain America movie and as an Avengers movie, mainly because the
00:25:28
Speaker
villain of this movie, Zemo, his plan is not specifically directed just at Captain America, it's directed at all of the Avengers. Right, yeah. So to me, that's why I think it would... If it was just directed just at him and the Avengers happen to get caught up in the fallout, okay, I could see that. But his plan is directed specifically at the Avengers and
00:25:52
Speaker
the the rest of the plot which is the Avengers being regulated by the world governments you know because they feel that they're getting out of hand it concerns all of the Avengers not just Captain America. Yeah but that the thing my thing is that that plot it's it's sort of a MacGuffin right it gets the story moving but really the the story's not really about the Sokovia Accords because the story of the Sokovia Accords it's not resolved at the end.
00:26:20
Speaker
It kind of gets lost in the shuffle. I will agree with you. Right. It kind of gets lost. Like how, because I mean, let's face it, they pretty much ignored it anyway, you know. Well, I don't think I wouldn't say it gets, I don't think, I wouldn't say it gets lost. I just say it's not important to the story they're actually telling. It's just there to, it's the inciting incident, right? Well, Captain America says right from the start, well, I ain't following this shit. Right. Yeah.
00:26:43
Speaker
And there's no change in Cap or Tony's opinions over it from the beginning of the movie to the end of the movie. They don't change at all in their opinions of the Accords. And also the important thing too, like the Avengers,
00:26:59
Speaker
After the midpoint battle, they're out of the movie pretty much. Like they have no role in the resolution. So that's why I say that if this were called Avengers Civil War, I think I would have been annoyed because the Avengers, then it would be like the X-Men movies where Wolverine, Cyclops, Magneto are the focus and all the other characters fall by the wayside.
00:27:24
Speaker
Okay, that's a listen, that's a valid point. So that's right. Yeah, so I mean I get and I like I know they've called it, you know, they jokingly called it Avengers 2.5, which, you know, and if they called this movie, you could actually call this movie Captain America and the Avengers. Yes, you could. You would be Yeah, you'd be valid to call it that as well, because I don't know I can't get I
00:27:47
Speaker
There are scenes in there like the ones with the very sweet and warm scene where Vision and Wanda, he's trying to cook for her as she comes in. And they have, okay, did we need that scene in the movie? No, we did not need it. But it furthers along their characters. And if you're familiar with them from the comic book, it gives you a nice warm feeling. And it's amazing when you think about how they are in this movie and then how we see them in Infinity War.
00:28:17
Speaker
And then when you stop and you realize, they've only really had those two movies, those two scenes, those are the only real development we've had of their relationship. We haven't. Right, yeah. But they do it. They do it so well. And especially Haptic to Paul Bettany and Elizabeth Olsen, they act like they've had this whole development off screen.
00:28:45
Speaker
Exactly. It's, you know, it's just a wonderful little scene that's dropped in the middle of all of this heavy drama. And like I said, it's not necessary. We didn't need it, but I'm glad it's there anyway. Right. It never feels forced. Another scene that I like, which I always tell people, and I love to see, you know, maybe it's not a big thing to a lot of people, but it's a big thing to me. There's a scene where right after they meet with, uh,
00:29:12
Speaker
Thunderbolt Ross, who has somehow finagled his way into being Secretary of State, for God's sake.
00:29:20
Speaker
The last person who should be secretary of state is Thunderbolt Ross. Yeah, yeah. You know, so they've had their meeting with them, you know, the Avengers, and he tells them, okay, well, listen, you got to sign this. And they said, well, let's talk about it. And I think it's the Black Widow that says, well, what do we make a decision that you don't like? And of course Thunderbolt Ross, being a Thunderbolt Ross, he said, well, that ain't going to happen. You're going to go along with this shit. You retire then. Yeah.
00:29:46
Speaker
Yeah, you're right. Exactly. You retire, you know, so. I also love that the little smirk Natasha gives him and when he says that, she's like, yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, she knows it's full of shit. She knows it's full of shit. But there's a scene right after that, where it's just the Avengers, they're talking, and it's Rhodey and Sam Wilson.
00:30:10
Speaker
And they're arguing back and forth. And I really enjoy that scene because these are both black men, both military black men who have different points of view. Yeah. And I really like how they had that in there to show that, okay, well, just because they're black
00:30:27
Speaker
And even though they've got similar backgrounds with them both in the military. Right, they're both in the military. Even though they have all this in common, they are individuals and each have their own opinion and their own mind. And I mean, they're going back and forth at each other. It also shows the difference of when you're still in the military versus being out of the military, right? Because Rhodey's still in the military. He's still part of the Air Force. Yeah. But Sam, he's retired.
00:30:53
Speaker
He's out of the military and he retired because of what happened. He saw his friend died and his wingman, they talk about. And then he only gets back in in Winter Soldier when Cap comes to him for help. And that shows also the different perspectives you have when you're in the military versus what happens when you get out and you're looking at it from a wider perspective.
00:31:21
Speaker
Right, exactly. You have a little distance away from it. So you're looking from the outside. It's also interesting to see how the people who were actually there when the Hydra takeover of SHIELD happened. So you've got Sam, you've got Cap, and you've got Natasha. And Sam and Cap, they rightly say, we can't trust this kind of power being put in the hands of one group.
00:31:46
Speaker
right? Because they saw what happened when that happened with S.H.I.E.L.D. and when HYDRA took it over. But Black Widow, she's being more of a pragmatics sort of view of it. Which is, especially there's that great scene where, you know, when she says that maybe we should sign it and then Sam gives her this look, he's like, aren't you the one who told the government to go to hell a few years ago? Yeah, yeah. You know what? She plays a very fascinating role in this movie because
00:32:15
Speaker
Her head goes with Tony, but her heart goes with Steve. Yes, yeah. Basically, that's what it is. You know, she's in the middle. She can see Tony's side and she can see Steve, which is really one thing I love about this movie overall. And I should say that this is one of the movies that whenever I get into discussion with one of these
00:32:35
Speaker
nitwits to talk about, well, I don't need politics in my superhero movies. I hate politics in my superhero movies. I said, well, did you like Captain America Civil War? Oh, I love that movie. It was a great movie. Well, that was a political movie, stupid. Absolutely, yeah. You know, from start to finish.
00:32:50
Speaker
It's politics that are driving, even one of the characters even says, well, this is all about politics. And that's what this movie is about. It's about politics trying to regulate superheroes. And I mean, they're actions. One of the characters, I don't remember who, but they come in and say, this is all about politics. That's what it is. And this is an intensely political movie. And of course, when you bring in the Black Panther,
00:33:16
Speaker
Because you have citizens of his country that have been killed, including his own father in a terrorist attack. Okay. Yeah, which is how he gets involved. Right. I mean, no, the plot. So yeah, so
00:33:30
Speaker
It's all, and I should mention, we were also introduced to Everett K. Ross in this movie, too. Right, yeah. Because he's got Martin Freeman. Right. We mentioned when we were talking about Black Panther, who plays a very different role. Like, especially in this movie, I thought he was much more like Henry Peter Guyrick. Yeah, he was much more like a S.H.I.E.L. agent. Yeah, yeah. In fact, I kind of thought it was a missed opportunity to not just go ahead and call him Guyrick.
00:33:59
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Because that's who he acts much more like a hard ass in this movie than he does in, you know, Black Panther. Right. He softens a little bit in Black Panther. But even still, he is still that he does still have that harder edge. Like he is definitely not Everett K. Ross from the comics. Because it's even because, OK, in Black Panther, it's even kind of hinted that they've had they've had some kind of friendly type of relationship, you know, because when he, you know, because
00:34:29
Speaker
Oh, it's during the casino scene. Right. Well, because they mentioned because, you know, I mean, to tell is the one who brings in Zemo. He's the one who takes down Zemo. He stops Zemo from killing himself at the end of this movie. And then it cuts to him being in Ross's custody.
00:34:44
Speaker
And then we don't find out what happened until that casino scene in Black Panther when Ross says, and when Tyler says, hey, cut me a break, I gave you Zemo. He's like, yeah, you gave me Zemo. And I didn't tell the rest of the world that the king of a third world country runs around in a catsuit.
00:35:02
Speaker
Right, exactly, yeah. Yeah, so it's a nice little thing that play, you know, and I always appreciate stuff like that. Like I said, it's stuff that they don't have to do, but I do appreciate it when the writers take time and say, okay, well, you know what? It'd be cool if we stuck this in here, just so that people know, yeah, okay, these guys, they know each other. They have history. Yeah, yeah.
00:35:26
Speaker
And I want to go back to talking about the beginning or so first talking about the conflict that drives this movie is the conflict between Steve and
Character Portrayals and Sokovia Accords
00:35:35
Speaker
Tony. And I want to compare that to the comics because
00:35:38
Speaker
Like I said, the Civil War comic, it basically twisted the characters to fit what Mark Miller wanted to do with the story. So you have, and it was basically, it was not even the, what you think of as the Marvel Universe versions of Steve Rogers and Tony Stark. It was basically the ultimate versions.
00:35:57
Speaker
from the Ultimates comic book. If Mark Miller wanted to do this in the Ultimates, that would have been fine with me. That would have fit those characters perfectly. But he chose to do it in the main Marvel Universe, and he twisted the characters
00:36:11
Speaker
Like Captain America is being a real dick about stuff. And Tony is acting like a straight up super villain, right? I mean, he's putting people in the, he's putting his friends in this extra dimensional, extra judicial concentration camp, basically, located in the negative zone, which Reed Richards helped him design.
00:36:36
Speaker
That's what I've heard that a lot of people, they had a lot of problems with how Iron Man was depicted in the series, yeah, in the comic book. Someone did try to look it up.
00:36:53
Speaker
someone did a parody of it where he took all the pages from the from the comic book and he redid the dialogue and made it a parody and it's so at mightygodking.com that's what it's called called mightygodking.com i don't need your civil war it's and it's hilarious it's so funny and he basically post pokes fun at the whole thing and
00:37:16
Speaker
And there's also, I mean, like at one point he decides, you know what, we're gonna send super villains out after Spider-Man. And it's just like, the whole thing, it's just like Tony Stark is basically Dr. Doom in that story.
00:37:32
Speaker
That's what I've heard. That's what I've heard from people I've read it. Yeah. But in this movie, so that's why I was really nervous going in, because I didn't want to see that. But this movie, it basically throws out everything from the comic except the premise. The premise is that Iron Man and Captain America are disagreeing over some government action.
00:37:55
Speaker
And that's the basic premise of this movie. That's the basic premise of Civil War. But it's not the same thing. It's not the same as the Sokovia Accords are different from the Superhuman Registration Act. Because the Sokovia Accords are focused on the Avengers, specifically. And it does make more sense here. Because they're not asking you to give up your identities. They're saying the Avengers need oversight.
00:38:21
Speaker
Right. That's more understandable. And you know what? OK, here's another thing that I love about this movie. You know what? There's really nothing wrong you can say about that. I mean, really, nobody is 100% right in this movie, and nobody is 100% wrong. Like Natasha, I can see Steve's point, and I can see Tony's point. And Tony is saying, well, listen, all they're just saying is that they would just like to have some oversight.
00:38:49
Speaker
And yes, after the events of Age of Ultron, yeah, you can kind of understand why the governments of the world would be kind of nerd, especially about since most of these enhanced beings are located in America. Yeah.
00:39:05
Speaker
that kind of makes the rest of the world know how come you get all the superheroes in you know yeah yeah you don't have any you know and then throw into the mix because even thunderbolt raw says well where's Thor where's the Hulk you know how come y'all guys don't know where they at you know what are they doing you know they don't know so people are scared and
00:39:24
Speaker
When people are scared, people are unpredictable. Right. And that's all Tony is saying. You know, let's do this. You know, and even Natasha agrees with it. And Tony turns around at one point and said, wait a minute, are you actually agreeing with me? She said, yeah, I know, but hey, you know, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
00:39:42
Speaker
And she says to Steve, listen, that's all he's saying. Let's sign this just to calm people down. Because she has a great line in there. She says, listen, even if we only have one hand on the steering wheel, we still got some saying where the car goes. Right, yeah, yeah. And Tony himself, he's not 100% committed. He understands there are problems with the Sokovia course. But like he says in that one scene, he's like, I'm trying to do this now to stave off something worse happening later.
00:40:10
Speaker
And it's actually, it's Captain America who makes shit worse every time, every action he takes in this movie, it makes, and Tony tells him that, listen, you're just making shit worse.
Zemo's Role and Critique of Avengers Comics
00:40:21
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. You know, okay, I understand why he's doing it. This is his childhood buddy.
00:40:27
Speaker
This is his. But people are telling Steve quite rationally, listen, he is a brainwashed mass murderer. We need to have him in custody. Yeah, yeah. And Steve has got this thing, well, that wasn't him. That wasn't him. Okay, we understand that. But can we just put him somewhere so he doesn't kill anybody else until we figure out what to do with him?
00:40:49
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And it's like, Steve is completely opposed to that, you know, 100%. Well, no, he's not exactly opposed to that. What he's opposed to, his whole thing is, he's worried that if other people go after Bucky, that he thinks that he'll have the best chance to bring in Bucky without anybody dying. Because they do bring, when they bring him in, right, it's not, he doesn't go rogue at the, in
00:41:15
Speaker
in Germany because they've got Bucky in prison, right? He's fine with Bucky being in prison. It's when shit goes south that he realizes, wait, there's something wrong here. Yeah, there's something else. Yeah, there's, you know, Zemo is guy, which, I mean, Zemo, I love this guy in this movie. I mean, you know what? He's not flashy. To me, he's like the perfect supervillain. He really is. Because he doesn't wear costume.
00:41:43
Speaker
He doesn't do anything flashy. He just works quietly behind the scenes, manipulating. Well, he doesn't wear the costume yet. But as we saw, when we get Falcon and the Winter Soldier, he's going to be wearing the mask in that. Yeah, I can't wait until he comes back. Oh, I'm looking forward to that, yeah. And the after that plays him is great. What's the name, Daniel Brule? Daniel Brule from, what was it, from, oh crap, he's right on the, Inglourious Basterds.
00:42:12
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And he was also in a really good German movie about the fall of the Berlin Wall. I really liked in this movie how... Goodbye, Lennon, that was... Goodbye, Lennon. He was also in that. That was a really good movie.
00:42:30
Speaker
I really like how Zemo is so calm and methodical and rational, even at the end, when he's, you know, the Black Panther, he's standing there and he's explaining, you know, why he said, well, listen, I know I couldn't kill the Avengers. I don't have the strength, the powers and the capability to do that. So the only thing I could do was get them to kill each other. Right. He has a really great line when he says, you know, an empire destroyed from outside can be rebuilt, but an empire that crumbles from within that's dead.
00:42:59
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I mean, we've seen enough superhero movies where the supervillains just try to use brute force. No, this guy was really doing some really
00:43:15
Speaker
off the hook with manipulations behind the scenes here. And it worked. We actually get to see a super villain who's playing works. A lot of people don't recall that about Civil War, but I would say, yeah, never forget.
00:43:33
Speaker
The supervillain won in this movie. He really did. He won. And the same thing in the comic books, too. The supervillain won, right? Captain America ends up dead, Iron Man's in control of S.H.I.E.L.D., the superhero community's divided, and the registration act is still in effect at the end of Civil War. And it does eventually lead down into, in the comic books, there was the dark rain story where Norman Osborn gets control of S.H.I.E.L.D. and the world security and all that, which
00:43:59
Speaker
I thought it was crazy to paint Norman Osborn as like this Lex Luthor type of character because that doesn't suit that guy at all. Cause he's a fucking nut job. But you know what? Back then I was saying at the time, you know what? I could buy the dark rain premise if it was Zemo. And if they had eventually gone down that, I don't know if they'll ever do that, but if they eventually do go down that route in the movies and have Zemo be like the dark rain figure, I think that would be awesome.
00:44:30
Speaker
Yeah, I never bought, but I think that what happened, somebody at Marvel said, well, you know, Lex Luthor is a real popular character over there. How come we don't have our own Lex Luthor? And somebody said, oh, well, we do. We got Norman Osborn. You know what I think it is? I think it's because it was Brian Bendis who was doing Avengers at the time. And you know what? I love Bendis' work on Spider-Man. I love his work on Daredevil. In fact, I just
00:44:57
Speaker
got his ultimate Spider-Man, the entire run was just on sale in Comics Alley. So I bought all the trades and I'm rereading through them now. And it's a great series, but he just, basically all he knows is really Spider-Man, Daredevil and Luke Cage. And that's really like all he really knows. He doesn't really have a feel for the Avengers. And so he keeps, when he did Avengers, he kept throwing Daredevil and Spider-Man villains at them.
00:45:22
Speaker
And so he had them fight Venom, he had them fight The Hand, he had them fight Electro, and he had them fight Norman Osborn then. And I'm saying, if you would just change your ideas a little bit, instead of using Norman Osborn, and if you would use Zemo, your story would have made 100 times more sense.
00:45:46
Speaker
a whole lot more sense. I'm glad you mentioned Spider-Man because you're much more of a Spider-Man fan than I am. This was also, Spider-Man was also introduced into the MCU in this movie. What did you think about that? Oh, I loved it. I was nervous at first because, again, like other characters in the comics, Spider-Man's role in Civil War was terrible, right? He compromises his whole thing about
00:46:14
Speaker
you know, protecting his loved ones by keeping his identity secret, because Tony tells him, well, we need you to go out and reveal your identity to the world. It's kind of like a message that, you know, it's okay to come in and sign up and register. So now Peter's whole thing was, you know, if I reveal my, if people find out who I really am, they're going to come after my family. And what happens right after he does that, Aunt May gets fucking shocked.
00:46:47
Speaker
And then they had to go through all this, you know, they ought to go through all this trouble to put the genie back in the bottle. We usually like, use like Dr. Strange and all this to make everybody forget that he had revealed he was Spider-Man. Oh, Lord. And that's why whenever, that's why whenever people get pissed off about like a character dying or something in the comics or, you know, some, I'm like, you know what, wait a few years and it'll go back to the way it was. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:13
Speaker
I mean, that's just the nature of comics, anyway. Nobody really does, except for Uncle Ben now. Yeah, yeah. And it used to be Uncle Ben and Bucky, but then they changed that. Yeah, but yeah, that don't apply no more. But it actually worked in Bucky's case out for the better, because I remember when they, when that, because I was, you know, that was by the time when I was reading Trades, so I wasn't reading single issues. So I had heard that the Winter Soldier was really Bucky, and I'm just like, well, that's stupid. Where are they going to bring back? And then I read the story, and I'm like, oh, that's actually really good.
00:47:45
Speaker
Do you ever read that Brew Bakers Captain America stuff? No, I've been hearing for years though that that's like one of the best runs.
00:47:53
Speaker
Oh, yeah, probably like the best. It's so good. Would you say that the Captain America that we see in these movies that that's based a lot heavily on the work? Oh, absolutely. Without a doubt. Yes. Oh, without a doubt. Yeah. Yeah. Because I've heard that too. That's why people tell me, oh, you ought to read Brubaker. Because I've heard from people, they say, yeah, that when they see this Captain America, Chris Evans, they say, yeah, they feel like they're watching Brubaker's.
00:48:22
Speaker
Yes, totally. Especially like all the political stuff that they brought in starting with Winter Soldier. Oh yeah. That's 100% like other writers, that's not to say that other writers in the past in CAP weren't political, they were, but Grew Baker grounds it in reality a lot more than a lot of the other writers did before him. And it's really good stuff.
00:48:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, you definitely, and plus like the artwork is amazing. Steve Epting does the artwork in it and it's got this very like spy movie feel to the whole thing.
00:48:54
Speaker
Okay, looks like Comixology. You got it. Yeah, you got to check that out. As if they don't have enough of my money already. Yeah, tell me about it. But hey, by the way, Comixology, if you're listening to us, you know, we plug you guys all the time. So, you know, how about you give us a little bit of advertising support? Yeah, I mean, really, I mean,
00:49:17
Speaker
they just had a thing i think i must have downloaded about i shouldn't say this though well yeah i can say it because they gave it away for free they had like oh shit load of black panther thomas oh yeah yeah you know it's funny when by the time that came out i looked at what they were offering and i already had most of them well yeah i figured do what a lot of that stuff i didn't have and i said oh especially and i got like the old curvy stuff which i haven't read in years oh i don't think i saw that on there yeah yeah yeah oh yeah do you know that is that still on there
00:49:47
Speaker
When did you get, when did you get this? Was this last week? This is last week. Okay, I gotta, I gotta have to check that out, because I didn't see that advertised on the. So, you know, they're gonna bankrupt me yet. I'm gonna have to get a credit card just for them. Yeah. No, really, because you know what? And sometimes they have some sales that are so good, it is crazy not to get it. Oh, yeah, definitely. That's it. I mean, the way they price it, yeah.
00:50:14
Speaker
it's crazy not to get it yeah oh i feel like that there's so many times i felt like that uh looks like it's not looks like it's over now damn it i'll have to keep an eye out for something like that next time uh but i did there was another sale they did i think it was for um uh black lives matter where they had a bunch of stuff available for free yeah and um so i picked up like i think it was like the shuri series i picked up and um uh the killmonger series i think i picked up but i haven't read those yet
00:50:43
Speaker
But anyway, but yeah, the Spider-Man. I love what they did with Spider-Man in this movie. And I never, you know, we always think about the, it's something I never really thought of. The fact that in the comic books, you know, because it's comic books and you've got the benefit of artistic interpretation, you can make his eyes change.
00:51:08
Speaker
Right, the eyes and his mask. And, you know, for that something note, I never would have thought that we could ever even see in the movie. It's something I never even thought that I'd be missing in the movies. Right, because we had the we had the rainy Spider-Man films. They worked with the with the the eyes were fixed. We had the
00:51:27
Speaker
the Mark Webb films where the eyes were fixed, but they never move. And then in this movie, when you see the eyes move, it's like, holy shit, that's their mechanical lenses. And he makes that point where he says like Tony asked him, can you even see in these guy who's like, yes, but whatever happened to me when I'm in action, it's like my senses are dialed to 11, there's too much input. So there's a practical reason for his lenses to do that.
00:51:55
Speaker
And I love how they have a close up and they show you, yeah, that they're obviously, I mean, you know, but it's brilliant in that it allows him to have some expression. Yes, yes. As well, you know.
00:52:08
Speaker
Like his eyes will open up wide when he's surprised. Like with Giant Man. Yeah. And he goes, holy shit. And his eyes are like picking up half of his mask. And I'm cracking up, oh my god, that's great. That's like a panel right out of a zombie book. And then, and the scene where, and you know, the fact that he's, I like that they're living in an apartment building. Right? Because that makes so much sense.
00:52:30
Speaker
for a middle-class aunt and her middle-class woman and her nephew. It makes so much sense for them to just be living in an apartment building in New York as opposed to a house. And that kind of drives home the fact that they don't have a lot of money. They don't have a lot of money exactly. Yeah. And the whole thing about him dumpster diving and being a tinkerer, I love that thing. That was another really good point they did. And you know what? I like the fact that they got a hot Aunt May.
00:53:00
Speaker
Hey, your Aunt May keeps getting younger and younger and younger in these things. But yeah, I mean, hey, we came a long way from Sally Field. Well, Sally Field was good too. I liked Sally Field. Yeah, Sally Field was good. I liked that she had a bit of a harder edge to her compared to Rosemary Harris. Rosemary Harris was much more the Stanley Steve Ditko daughtering Aunt May.
00:53:25
Speaker
Yeah. Which, you know, and she, that's fine. She did that very well. Sally Field was a bit more of like the, the Bendis vaguely ultimate Aunt May, where she's a little bit younger. She's a little bit, um, she's a little bit more of a taskmaster and, you know, and she has a little bit more of a personality to her. I think that the genius in making Aunt May, okay. Okay. Given that their age difference is like,
00:53:51
Speaker
skewed the way it is. Aunt May is almost more like a big sister than her aunt. Right. Well, I mean, age-wise, she actually is more appropriate than, you know, Rosemary Harris was, even Aunt May is a comic. Right, exactly. Because Aunt May was like, is like, what, his great-great-aunt in the comics. Right, true, yeah. She wasn't even like his aunt. She was great, yeah. And I mean, she was like 90 years old or something. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, you know,
00:54:18
Speaker
You know, when I was, when I was 18, my aunt was like in her, in her 30s. So 18, 30s or 40s. Yeah. She wasn't, you know, she wasn't like 90. Same here. When I was, when I was in my teens, like 18, so on that my aunts were like in their 30s. Yeah. So it makes sense for him. He's, you know, he's a 16 year old kid. His aunt's in her fifties. That's, that makes total sense. Yeah.
00:54:41
Speaker
And also it's a nice little callback because Marissa Tomei and Robert Downey Jr. have been in movies in the past. So like they were in Only You in the 90s, they were in Chaplin together. And so that scene where they're on the couch, it's like a callback to those other movies, especially when he's flirting with her.
00:54:59
Speaker
That whole scene in that apartment, I enjoyed it so much because it was like Howard Hawks movie. Yeah, yeah. With the rapid fire dialogue and the going and the ping pong. Tom Holland is like the only actor I've ever seen who can keep up verbally with Robert Downey Jr. when he's on a roll. Oh, he's so good. And then like the looks Tony's giving him where he's like, you know, play along, play along. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they
00:55:25
Speaker
Okay, go ahead. No, I'm just saying that.
Spider-Man's Evolution in MCU
00:55:29
Speaker
I'm not that much of a Spider-Man fan, but I am a fan of this version of Spider-Man. Because to me, he's... How can I say this? I don't know. The other actors that played Spider-Man
00:55:47
Speaker
They had enough of one element of the character, but they didn't, were lacking in something else. But this kid, Tom Holland, he seems to be able to encompass every aspect of the actors that came before him, as well as the comic book version, if that makes sense. No, absolutely. Like he is, just like Christopher Reeve, right, was like this perfect synthesis of all the different
00:56:11
Speaker
versions of Superman we had seen at that point. I think it's the same thing with Tom Holland and Spider-Man. Yeah, that's what it is. Because he's got, like, the whole thing was Toby McGuire and Andrew Garfield were both good. Like, I don't want to disparage either of them at all. They were both good. But they were good in different ways. They didn't quite have the whole package. Like, bingo. That's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. McGuire was perfect as Peter Parker, right? He was absolutely perfect as Peter Parker. He's this, you know, this shy, geeky kid that made total sense.
00:56:42
Speaker
But the problem is, he couldn't spout a quip to save his life. Yeah. Like every time he tried to crack a joke as Spider-Man, it just fell flat. Yeah, it didn't come off as being witty or spontaneous. Right, right, right. You know, yeah. And Andrew Garfield had the opposite problem. Andrew Garfield was, he was too cool as Peter Parker.
00:57:04
Speaker
right? Like you get the sense that he was kind of like this loner by choice as opposed to a loner because he's uh because he gets picked on at school. Right. And which you know it's fine it's a different interpretation that's fine I love and I like the Andrew Garfield movies but when it came to Spider-Man he was perfect as Spider-Man like he had the the quips the humor all of the sarcasm all that he had that down pat. Right yeah exactly it's like he took the business it's like um
00:57:31
Speaker
What's the best in there? It's like Pierce Brosnan. I always said that Pierce Brosnan, it's like he took the best parts of Sean Connery, Roger Moore, and what's up? Timothy Dalton. Timothy Dalton? And Timothy Dalton, yeah. It's like he took all the best elements from them and put them into one package. Yes, yeah, yeah. And that's what made his bond so successful.
00:57:56
Speaker
That you know because it's like he took all the little best somehow and he's the same way It's like he takes all the best bits from those guys that play spider-man before him and adds his own little Quirks or whatever and it comes out to be okay. I look at him and say okay. That's spider-man Yeah, yeah, like he's got the geeky side He's got the and especially like the way he he's got the whole nervous thing like that's the thing like he's got this
00:58:22
Speaker
this like nervous kind of quality to him, which is not, which is, it's like an endearing kind of nervousness. It's not like an annoying kind of, and it's fun to watch. Like when he's, when he's like, you know, trying to talk to Downey and he's all starstruck and everything. And like, and just how he talks so rapidly when he's nervous as Spider-Man is so Spider-Man. That's such a spider. You know when I said, okay, this is Spider-Man?
00:58:49
Speaker
with, he's fighting with Captain America, and he stops, and he says, OK, you do know that thing ignores all the laws of physics, right? He's geeking out over all their equipment. Yeah, and like he says when he grabs Winter Soldier's arm, he's like, you've got a metal arm? Dude, that's so cool. And then Falcon, and then he sees Falcon. He's like, are those rings carbon fiber? That would explain the rigid flexibility ratio. And Falcon's like, what the hell are you talking about? This is a fight.
00:59:18
Speaker
He said, you do know we don't talk all that much. But of course he does, because he's Spider-Man. That's what Spider-Man does. But he's geeking out about all this. It's such a Spider-Man thing to do. Yeah, that's right. I said, OK, this kid is Spider-Man. And I just thought it was a gutsy move of Marvel to introduce not just one, but two new characters in the same movie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also to give a lot more development to some of these other characters who haven't gotten some.
00:59:48
Speaker
before because like we got the this is where I want to talk about Hawkeye because you know Hawkeye this version of Hawkeye is my favorite version of Hawkeye in the movies.
00:59:59
Speaker
Like, I remember people complaining about the last two movies in their life, the two Avengers movies, like, oh, well, you know, that's not really Hawkeye. That's, you know, Van Allen Pipes, the girlfriend of the show, he said, like, well, the whole thing with Hawkeye is they gave his personality to Iron Man, so now they don't have anything to do with Hawkeye. But this Hawkeye we see in Civil War, that's the Hawkeye from the comics, I thought. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, he's like the more mature Hawkeye from the comics, like when he was doing the Thunderbolts thing. Like, he's that Hawkeye.
01:00:28
Speaker
Right? He's got the whole thing where he has that leadership quality to him, but he's also making jokes and stuff like that. I don't know. I never had a problem. And I know what you're saying, because I've heard people say that too about, oh, yo, they took Hawkeye's character and gave it to
01:00:48
Speaker
you know, Tony Stark, and I said, no, they didn't. They just let Robert Downey Jr. do what he does best, which grabs his personality onto the character. That's what I've always felt too, yeah. Yeah, that's what he did. You know, that's Robert Downey Jr., you know.
01:01:04
Speaker
you know, playing an inflated version of himself. Yes. But that's what it is. But yeah, but I've never felt like they stole Hawkeye's character, because this is obviously a more mature, seasoned version of Hawkeye than what we've seen in the content. This isn't the one that was part of Captain Chief Quartet. Right. The one who had made all these mistakes in his youth and all that, and is trying to make a penny. Right. And is still like trying to challenge. This is a Hawkeye who has gone through all that already.
01:01:32
Speaker
Yeah, this is a guy who's got a wife and kids and, you know, and he's mature. Yeah, yeah. And that's why I think, and we could talk about this more when we eventually get to Age of Ultron, but the scene when he talks to, when he's telling his wife that, you know, he's like, you know what, these kids, they just need someone to smack some sense into him. Like he's, it's basically what he did to the Thunderbolts.
01:01:56
Speaker
in the comic books. And he does that here to Wanda and Pietro. And there's that great speech he gives to Wanda, right? He's like, you know, everything's crazy. The city's flying. We're being attacked by an army of robots. And I've got a bow and arrow. None of this makes sense. None of this makes sense. But he's like, I'm going to go out there and I'm going to do my job. But here I am. And see, that's why, and I tell people this all the time, whenever anybody talks about, OK, well, you know,
01:02:25
Speaker
They say to Captain America, he's the heart and soul of the Avengers. I say no, it's Hawkeye. Yeah. Because think about it.
Hawkeye’s Role in the Avengers
01:02:33
Speaker
Here's a guy, yes, with nothing but a bow and tricky arrows. He holds his own on a team that's got thunder gods and super soldiers and guys that are in the suits and everything like that. And he pulls his weight. Yeah.
01:02:47
Speaker
And he's frequently the guy that is saying, hold it, wait, stop. Let's stop and take a minute to think about what we're doing before we go out and do it. And I think the movies play a subtle nod to that because you notice every time Hawkeye's not on the team, it goes to shit.
01:03:04
Speaker
And that's what he says. He has a point of move where he goes and he rescues Wanda. He says to the vision, every time I leave you guys alone for five minutes, everything goes this way. And he's right. And then also, too, Infinity, he leaves after this because he goes and he takes the deal to be at her house arrest with his family. And then it goes to shit again. Thanos comes and wipes out half the universe. There you go, Hawke. Hawke, that's my man. Hawke, I'm telling you.
01:03:34
Speaker
And he's a guy he's like.
01:03:37
Speaker
one of those people that is a professional superhero. This is what he does. And he's like a talent scout. He's always recruiting promising talent and saying, okay, I can help. Okay, there's something that I could teach you. Right. And it's so telling that he's the one who brings Wanda out of this, right? Just like you did in Age of Ultron, right? It's a perfect, cause he says that to Wanda. He says like, look, if you can't handle it, you stay here. I'll send your brother to come get you later. He's like, but if you walk out that door, you are an Avenger.
01:04:05
Speaker
Yeah, he does the same and he gives her the same like tough love speech here. He says to her, he's like, look, you want to mope, you can go to high school. But if you want to do some good, then it's time to get off your ass. Exactly. And see, and see, I heard you say, OK, that's all. Yeah, yeah.
01:04:20
Speaker
That's all. To me, he's Mr. Avengers. Yes, yeah. He is. To me, even more than Captain America, he is Mr. Avengers. And we get one of my favorite callback moments to the comics in this movie, too. Because when they announced this movie, and they said that Hawkeye's going to be in it, and Ant-Man's going to be in it, I'm like, they got to have the scene where the famous Avengers cover, where Hawkeye fires an arrow with Ant-Man on the tip. And I'm like, they got to have that scene in the movie. And they did it. They did it.
01:04:49
Speaker
when I saw this in the movie theater, and they had that scene where Hawkeye, he's got the arrow and it pulls back and we say, Ant-Man, he's... There was a good number of us that jumped up and screamed. Well, I did that, yeah. I'm like, yes. And everybody else was looking at us and saying, what are you screaming for? What is that? Because they didn't know, of course. Yeah, yeah.
01:05:13
Speaker
And I had to explain to my wife later on because, of course, she thought I was having a heart attack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I even dug out the Tommy book and showed it to her because I had it. And I said, look, I said, this is like one of the most iconic Tommy book covers of all time. Yeah. And they did it. Yeah. And also, I love the line where he says to T'Challa, where he meets T'Challa. And T'Challa, like he fires the explosive arrows. T'Challa grabs him with his hand. They blow up right in front of his face. And T'Challa just casually drops him.
01:05:44
Speaker
And then Clint's just like, oh, fuck. And then he turns his bow into a staff, and he's like, oh, we haven't met yet. And Clint. He turned into his bow, and he turned into a staff. I said, get out of here. And he's trying to make casual conversations. Like, I'm Clint. And T'Challa just like, I don't care. Oh, no, he ain't. No, T'Challa ain't into this shit. No, he ain't. But the great thing about that is that it comes back in Endgame.
01:06:12
Speaker
because when in the big epic battle fight scene Clint's got the the infinity gauntlet and T'Challa jumps out in front of him he says Clint give it to me right it's a callback to that when he called when he introduced himself as Clint. Oh okay yeah because that's how he didn't introduce himself as Hawkeye he introduced himself as Clint that's right yeah
01:06:32
Speaker
So it was kind of like T'Challa's way of apologizing for being a dick the first time they met. Well, you know what? That's the good thing about this movie is that everybody gets to be a dick at some point in this movie. I mean, nobody is left out. Even the characters who we normally don't think of.
01:06:51
Speaker
as indulging in dickish behavior. They do. They have one scene at least where they do. I mean, of course, we expect Tony to, Tony's starting to be a dick from start to finish. But the thing that I like about that is that he, again, he isn't necessarily wrong.
Tony Stark’s Logic and MCU Integration
01:07:06
Speaker
No, that's one of the things I liked about this movie compared to, especially compared to the comic books, is that Tony's logic makes sense.
01:07:14
Speaker
Right? You understand why he's doing it. In fact, he's not sending supervillains after Captain America. In fact, he steps in and tells Ross, look, don't send military guys after him. You know, just let us go. Yeah. Listen, I'll go get him. I'll talk to him. I'll bring him in. Because Ross is, yeah, Ross is being a big addict. Oh, no. I want Rogers. I want this one. I want that one. And even
01:07:39
Speaker
And he even says to them, you know, when, when he, when he meets the captain of the airport, he says, look, you're going to come with us because it's us or if it's not us, then it's going to be a bunch of JSOC guys who aren't going to be so polite. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
01:07:52
Speaker
And may I say again, I think I might have mentioned this before, but if I hadn't, is that the only thing wrong with William Hurt's performance as Thunderbolt Ross is that I've seen Sam Elliott play Thunderbolt Ross. And to me, he was like the perfect Thunderbolt Ross. But William Hurt is very good. Don't get me wrong.
01:08:15
Speaker
I mean, because he's William Hurt. I mean, it's like, you know, like we were talking about with, you know, you can't get Christopher Reed to play Superman again, but you can get Brandon Routh or Tyler Oakland. They're not going to be as good, but they're still pretty good. Exactly. And it's the same thing with Thunder. Like if you can't get Sam Elliott back, then William Hurt is a perfectly fine substitute.
01:08:34
Speaker
perfectly fine substitute. And I really, I really enjoy every time he comes on stage. I said, because I knew he was going to say something that's just going to piss everybody off. It's like, that's his sole purpose, to piss people off. And I'm glad, I'm also glad that he came into this because this, you know, completely, because everybody doubted, a lot of people doubted that Incredible Hulk was part of the MCU.
01:08:57
Speaker
even though because the only reference to it really was in Avengers when when Bruce says you know last time I was in New York I kind of broke Harlem. Yeah right. That's the only reference to it but in in this movie you know this is the first time this is the first actor and so far the only actor from the Incredible Hulk who has been in an MCU movie. Right. So I'm really glad they brought him in for that and he
01:09:23
Speaker
And they give a reason why we haven't seen him until then because he says, you know, I had the heart attack. I had the heart attack right he goes into that thing where he explains that he was on the golf course. Yeah, yeah. And then he had to recover. Yeah. And then apparently what happened when he got better, they made him Secretary of State, you know, yeah, you know, but like I said, you know,
01:09:44
Speaker
Thunderbolt, really? This is the least diplomatic guy I can think of. He's going to make him Secretary of State. But apparently, he grew into the job. So hey. Well, that's the whole thing I like when you see this. His explanation about having the heart attack and everything, he says it gave me something that all my time in the military never gave me, and that's perspective.
01:10:07
Speaker
And so you get the sense that even though he is still a hard ass, but he's learned to be a little bit more diplomatic as well, is kind of the sense I was getting.
01:10:21
Speaker
The whole thing, I think that he goes through what he talks about. I learned something in all that time when I was recuperating, because I think he said he was in surgery for like 13 hours. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he said, you know, he said, and I learned something. Yes. In that time. So yeah. So I think that that's, but you know what, having been through what, uh,
01:10:44
Speaker
because I've had two pulmonary embolisms, which is blood clots in the lungs. And the second one I had, the doctor told me, he said, quite frankly, we don't know how you survived the first one, much less the second one. So I can say safely that something like that, yeah, it does,
01:11:10
Speaker
change your outlook on life right yeah so yeah so when i heard that line it rang true to me that he would say that you know when he said yeah i had a lot of time to think and and also you know what that makes up any inconsistencies in his character um you know not inconsistent but what might be perceived as inconsistencies right right because this character is a is slightly softer and this one right yeah
01:11:37
Speaker
Yeah. And I also want to go back to something I forgot to mention when we were talking about Spider-Man. And that's one of my biggest issues with people who talk about this movie and talk about the MCU in general and Spider-Man and the MCU is they say that they've taken away Uncle Ben. But they haven't. Like his whole speech to Tony, because Tony asked him, why do you do what you do? And
01:12:02
Speaker
And Peter says to him, he's like, you know, because when you can do the things I can do, and then the bad things happen. And when you can do the things I do, and you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you. He was talking about Uncle Ben in that scene.
01:12:20
Speaker
That was Ben. But everybody's always like, oh, there's no Uncle Ben. There's no Uncle Ben. I'm like, yeah, there is. That's what he's referencing Uncle Ben. We just don't need it spelled out for us because everybody knows Spider-Man's origin story already. Well, see, OK. I was just about to say that. You know what? One of the things I liked about the way they introduced Spider-Man into the MCU through this movie, they didn't go through the origin. Right. Because, I mean, really, let's face it. Who doesn't know Spider-Man's origin?
01:12:50
Speaker
And there are references to Uncle Ben throughout the movies he's been in, like in Homecoming, when Ned finds out that he's Spider-Man. And he says, well, does May know? And Peter says, no, no, no, May can't know, not after everything she's been through. Right. That's obviously Uncle Ben, you know, her husband died. And then in Far From Home, when he's getting ready to go to Europe, the suitcase has BFP are the initials on it. The initials, right.
01:13:19
Speaker
So yeah, he is, Uncle Ben was here in this movie, in this series. We just haven't seen him yet. Yeah. And I mean, really, I mean, let's be honest, do we really need to see Uncle Ben? We know Spider-Man's origin. We know what happened and all that. To me, Spider-Man, the Hulk, Superman, Batman, those are four characters we should never see their origin again in film. Agreed. Agreed.
01:13:43
Speaker
Because even people, my wife, is no comic book fan by any stretch of the imagination. But you asked her about Superman, origin, Batman. She knows it. Right. Because everybody knows it. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
01:13:56
Speaker
You know, so then, yeah, so I'm with you on that. And you know what, I'm glad that they just introduced, they just brought Spider-Man in. They said, listen, okay, he got bit by the spider, yada, yada, yada, Uncle Ben got killed. Okay, fine, let's go. You know all that, you know, let's go. Yeah, so just to silence anyone who keeps saying that, oh, Uncle Ben's on, yeah, he's in it. It's just, you know, use your brain a little bit and listen to what he's saying because there's a story behind his words. And that story is what happened to Uncle Ben.
01:14:27
Speaker
Yeah, but you know what will happen? Those same exact people that say that he's not in there, they will turn around and go, yeah, but they took 30 minutes telling the origin again. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:14:39
Speaker
comic book fans, I've said it before I say it again, it's impossible to make home happy. Don't even try. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Just make the movie that you want to make and let the chips forward, they may. Yeah, I also want to talk about the vision because the vision is another character who this is his, he's at his best in the whole MCU in this movie.
01:15:01
Speaker
Like this is definitely the vision from the comics. Yeah. He's very, you know what? I love the vision when he's just sitting around in regular clothes talking. I love that. They have a bit of sweater and it's so fun. He's got all slacks and penny loafers and he's just sitting around and just shooting the shit and he's talking and he's very natural and he's very relaxed and comfortable. Right. And he's also just, and it's funny just like how he,
01:15:29
Speaker
he doesn't get simple things like using a door like he walks in through the wall and Wanda's like vision we talked about this and he's like yeah but the door was already open so i thought it was okay yeah i thought it was okay why not just and then after they finish he and then after they finish it cracks me up when he makes a point of saying to her okay i'm leaving now and yes i will be using the door i said i said a little bit of snark there her vision
01:15:57
Speaker
But also his- Do I have to take just a little bit of snark in there? And also like his analysis, like when they're all sitting down and they're arguing, he's like, I have an equation. And then Sam's like, oh great, this should clear it all up. And know what? It does. It does. It makes a lot of sense. Then Rody's, because I love it. There's like this, because it seems like Sam thinks vision is going to fall on his side. Yeah. When he says that, he's like, all right, great. This is going to clear it all up. And then he finishes it, and then Rody's like, boom. Yeah.
01:16:27
Speaker
Yeah, because the vision is looking at it, you know. Okay, he's looking from the standpoint of somebody who really, in some ways, he's like a child because he doesn't have that much experience with this world and with these people.
01:16:44
Speaker
But he's able to, you know, he's looking at it very dispassionately. I guess this is what I'm trying to say. He's not being emotional about it. He's not like Mr. Spock where, you know, but, you know, he's not as emotionally invested as the rest of these people because they are very heavily emotionally invested in this situation and in what they do. Yeah.
01:17:08
Speaker
And his equation makes a lot of sense, right? He says, like, you know, sitting the eight years since Tony Stark said he was Iron Man, the number of world ending threats has risen at the same rate. And he's like, our very power invites challenge and, you know, and oversight is not something that can be easily dismissed. Wow, listen.
01:17:32
Speaker
I mean okay you have okay it's the same thing as the theory that's long been held that the rise of supervillains in Gotham was a result of Batman. Right exactly yeah the whole escalation yeah. Right the whole escalation and it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse because you have all these nut jobs instead of
01:17:54
Speaker
going and getting professional help. No, they put on costumes and go out to beat up on Batman, who would turn beats up on him. See, because in Gotham, that's how you solve your psychological issues. You put on a costume. You don't get help. And yeah, it cannot be denied that the threats that came about. I mean, Vincent, Tony Stark was responsible for Ultron. Yeah, yeah. You know, himself. And I think it's very interesting. OK, going back to him.
01:18:24
Speaker
Just for a second, not to derail the train of thought, but I think that in all of the MCU movies, the one underlying thing that
01:18:35
Speaker
there are many threads that go through it, but the one major one is that Tony never really got any professional help for the PTSD. He suffered from the New York invasion. And really that's what's been going on with him through all of these movies. He's dealing with that PTSD and he really never gets any help for it. He's trying to help himself through his technology and it just doesn't work. He doesn't actually
01:19:04
Speaker
get better until the gap between Infinity War and Endgame. Yeah. And then when we see him in, we're not in between it, but in that five year gap, that's when he finally, that's when he finally, because he retires from Iron Man, he puts the toys away, basically, you know, he grows up, right? He becomes a husband, he becomes a father. And that's really when the, that's really what he needed was to, you know, deal, confront with it. And instead of keep trying to hide behind the,
01:19:33
Speaker
the Iron Man suits. Well, actually, I think you hit it right on the head, because the Tony Stark that
Character Development of Steve and Tony
01:19:41
Speaker
we see... And know what? He's an adolescent, really. Tony Stark is... He's never actually grown up. He gets older, but he doesn't grow up. So he's confronted with all these traumatic events in these movies that
01:20:01
Speaker
I think that's what forces him to grow up. And that five-year gap, horrendous as it was, that was the best thing for him. Because like you said, yeah, he finally grew up. He became a husband. He became a father. He put away the toys. And he decided to grow up at last and start playing with these expensive toys as a way of dealing with his emotional and psychological issues. Because he does have a lot of psychological and emotional issues, as we see in one scene,
01:20:28
Speaker
where he's showing the class at MIT, that whole scene when he was a kid and he's talking to his father and his mother realizes there's a lot of shit between him and his father, you know, and he's never really resolved those issues.
01:20:45
Speaker
And then he finds out that the Winter Soldier killed his parents, which is enough. I mean, Tony's stuff is the most psychological shit out of any other character in these movies. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's just like one cycle. It's just like one psychological body blow after another. And not only that, that the Winter Soldier killed his parents, but that Cap knew.
01:21:05
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's what hurt. That's what really hurts worse. So, you know, I mean, Cap does say like, he's like, well, I didn't know I knew it was Hyder, but I didn't know it was Bucky specifically. Right. And but yeah, they do a really good job with with Tony in this and the PTSD stuff all comes to a head here. And yeah, and he's he's he's confronted with the fact that, you know, he has been reckless even as even as a superhero. Right. And like when Alfrey Woodard
01:21:35
Speaker
appears to confront him in the hallway after the MIT thing. And he's lost Pepper now because of this. And now he's trying. And he even says to Steve, I blew up my suits for her at the end of Iron Man 3. And then we had to finish mopping up Hydro. And then Ultron, which was my fault. And then I didn't stop because the truth is I don't want to stop.
01:22:01
Speaker
And that pushed her away. And he thought like the Accords can split the difference, he says. So he's doing this for not because he believes in the Accords, but because of two reasons. One, he thinks that if he doesn't bring some oversight to the Avengers, then something worse is going to come. And two, he's hoping that he can use this as an olive branch to pepper. And it is just, it is...
01:22:26
Speaker
And it's just a good way of showing like how much is, well, both these characters, both Steve and Tony, how much they've changed since their first meeting in Avengers, right? Because if you remember in that movie, Tony is being snarky with Fury, he's being snarky with Hill, he's trying to hack into Shields computers. And then Steve's just like, you know, we have orders that we should follow.
01:22:50
Speaker
Steve is the law and order guy. He's like, we got to follow orders, do what they tell us. And Tony's the one, he's like, no, following's not my style. I do my own thing. But both of them have seen the consequences of where those paths take them. Steve saw it in Winter Soldier.
01:23:10
Speaker
He saw what happened when just following orders, what that gets you, is that you get Hydra running shield. Yeah, you get Hydra running shield. And then in Age of Ultron, Tony saw what happened when you don't have oversight. You create Ultron. So both of them have switched perspectives because of this. And now Steve is the one who's questioning authority while Tony's the one who's saying like, no, no, we got to follow orders.
01:23:39
Speaker
Yeah, well, you know what? Because see, OK, here's Tony's problem. Tony's whole thing is that since he's a technologist, when something is broken, you fix it. Sometimes it's not that easy. Right. You can't just fix things. Yes, yeah. And that's what he's trying to do in this movie. He's trying to fix things. Unfortunately, he's dealing with people, and you cannot fix people. Right. There are some situations you can't fix. You just have to let them play out.
01:24:09
Speaker
the way that they play out and you just deal with it as it comes. But no, he says, okay. See, cause in his head, he's supposed to take a screwdriver and a hammer and bing bang, bing, boom, bam. Okay. I fixed it. It's not that simple. Right. Exactly. And, and, and this movie does a really good job of showing him learning that lesson. Yeah. Yeah. And uh, I mean, and really, you know what?
01:24:37
Speaker
By the time you get to the end scene, when him and Cap, they have their big fight, and Captain America leaves, and Tony says, and even then Tony is still defiant. He says, oh, you don't deserve that cheer. My father built that. Well, wait a minute, but you didn't even like your father. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cap throws in the shoes. OK, yeah, take it. I don't want to hear you.
01:25:03
Speaker
Cause Cap realizes that Tony's coming at this from an emotional place. Like he just found out that Bucky was responsible for his parents' debt. And this is Cap's way of saying like, look, I know you're going through some shit. I don't want to fight you on this. And that's why he drops the shield. Yeah. Yeah.
01:25:21
Speaker
because, yeah, at that point, Tony's not listening to reason. Right, yeah, yeah. Like, Cap tries to tell him, he says, like, look, look, it wasn't him. He wasn't in control. And he was being, he was brainwashed. He couldn't help what he was doing. And Tony, one of the heartbreaking lines of this movie, Tony says, I don't care, he killed my mom. Yeah. And that was just like that, because that was what really, it wasn't so much his dad, it was his mom. And you know what always surprises me about,
01:25:49
Speaker
the way Robert Downey doing plays Tony Spill, which is so masterful. For God that's so proud of his brain and his intellect, he runs 99% of the time on emotion. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. He doesn't rely on that intelligence to see him through a lot of the problems in his life.
01:26:17
Speaker
you know, he just runs on emotion. And that kind of dichotomy, I think, is what resonates with a lot of people in his portrayal of that character. Because he is a guy who is like, his intelligence is off the charts. But, you know, when it comes to dealing with people and dealing with himself, really, he's really not very good. Well, you know, it's interesting you say that, because that's kind of a running theme with the scientists in the movie, too, because it's the same thing with Banner. Yeah.
01:26:47
Speaker
Both of them, despite all their intellect and all that, they mostly rely on their emotions to solve problems. Yeah, yeah. That's a good point. I never thought about that before. Yeah, which is really surprising to me. They run on emotion most of the time. And another thing too, I just realized, is you think about how they're always trying to fix their problems by
01:27:14
Speaker
by not dealing with the emotional side of them, right? Like Tony's always trying to fix things through technology. He's not dealing with the emotions he's feeling. Bruce is always trying to solve his problems, trying to cure the Hulk by not confronting the Hulk, but by dealing with, by trying to find new cures and stuff like that. And it's- Yeah, he's trying to find technological cures for what is a psychological slash emotional problem. And it's not until after Infinity War, when they lose,
01:27:42
Speaker
that then they both confront the emotional side and then they both come out at you know whole right because now Bruce literally right because now he's literally combined with the Hulk.
01:27:54
Speaker
And you know what, I really would love to see them do a whole TV series in that five-year gap when apparently Bruce and the Hulk have decided to live together, you know, if he's in harmony. Yeah, I would like to see some more of that, yeah. Yeah, you know, and it's like he's like the number one superhero now, you know. He's taking selfies with people, you know, then walking around in Hulk t-shirts and, you know, that, you know, there's rap songs about him and all kinds of stuff, you know.
01:28:22
Speaker
All kinds of good stuff. But yeah, it's, you know...
01:28:27
Speaker
Maybe we're getting into deeper psychological waters here than was planned for the movie. Or maybe that's just a testament to how good the writing and acting is. No. That all of this stuff comes to the, because I was noticing all this stuff when I was watching the movie earlier today. Yeah. And you know, I hadn't noticed it before because I was watching it just as entertainment. But I was watching it with kind of like a more critical eye. And I was just saying, yeah, you know, like Tony Stark, you know, he should have really got some help after the
01:28:55
Speaker
you know the invasion you know yeah yeah invasion because he never really recovered that i mean ultron he created ultron as a man because of course he's thinking okay well we're never going to get invaded by aliens again because i'm gonna fix it i'm gonna build this defense system is going to protect the whole world well even the even the alien invasion too right in iron man 3 what's his solution to it build more suits of armor yeah build more suits of armor yeah yeah you know so yeah they they do a really good job of
01:29:25
Speaker
pushing them to confront those issues in this movie and after this movie too with Hulk. Although I do think that he really tries a little when in... What Spider-Man movie is that?
01:29:41
Speaker
Homecoming. Homecoming, yeah, yeah. But we see him like take on like a mentor role, you know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it seems to me like he's really trying to make an honest effort to keep Peter from making mistakes he made. Well, yeah, he says that. He's like, you know, Peter says, you know, I just wanted to be like you and I just wanted to be like you. And Tony says, and I wanted you to be better. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. And once again,
01:30:09
Speaker
I gotta say that I know that he made something like $40 million from this movie, but you know, Robert Downey Jr., he earned every penny from this because a lot of the reason why these movies work.
01:30:25
Speaker
is because of him, you know, and his, you know, playing Tony Stark. And the way he played him and the way he made him grow and expand as a character through these movies. Yes, yeah. Now, I want to go back, finish talking about Vision and the Scarlet Witch. Like, they're... I derailed you, sorry. No, that's fine. That's fine. I mean, it was a really good... You're going to derail me for a conversation like that. I'm more than happy to be derailed. But yeah, their relationship is so well done. Like, him...
01:30:54
Speaker
trying to be trying to be human making these connections with her and you know like like you said the scene where he's trying to make her paprika it's just it's so funny and he even admits that you know you got to taste it because you know i don't eat you know yeah wait a minute so how do you know if what you what you're making is even because he's because he's reading the book he says okay a pinch of paprika and that's just
01:31:22
Speaker
you know he's very precise about it you know whereas you know me and you would just okay yeah we just grab a whole bunch right right he's very precise that it is just a pinch you know it's you know what that whole scene is just so endearing yeah you know where he's trying to cook for her and then when uh oh i also i love the scene when um
01:31:45
Speaker
And we find out how big of a threat Wanda can really be in this because when Vision fights Hawkeye and he holds him down, he's like, look, Clint, you can't overpower him. He's like, yeah, I know I can't, but she can. And then she takes control of the Mind Stone and forces him to become ultra dense and pushes him.
01:32:06
Speaker
several layers beneath the earth's core whatever yeah i mean she just doesn't drop a couple of stories she drops them through the whole building yeah going through the earth yeah later when tony's like i think you heard vision's feelings
01:32:21
Speaker
I like also the costume that she wears, because it's really not like a costume. Right, yeah. You know, it's something that, yeah, she could get away with walking around in the street, and nobody would look up. But yet, it's still got enough flair that it looks like something that I could see the comic book version of the Scarlet Witch aware of it. Yeah, yeah. Elizabeth Olsen really surprises me a lot in these movies. Yeah, she does. Because she does little things that always surprise me, you know?
01:32:51
Speaker
Yeah, she's really good. And also, I love it at the beginning of the movie when they open on the Avengers, the new Avengers, right, in Nigeria, I think it was. Yeah.
01:33:05
Speaker
or Lago, so that was the name of it. And, you know, she's, they're basically training her on the job, right? Mm-hmm. You know, Cap and Natasha, they're basically training her on the job. They're saying like, okay, what do you see? What are you picking up here? And, you know, Natasha tells her, he's like, look, you know, looking over your shoulder has got to become second nature to you. And I like that. I like that kind of like on-the-job training she's getting here.
01:33:34
Speaker
Well, yeah, because sometimes the only training that you're going to get is out in the field, I guess. I mean, so yeah, you throw them in a deep end and just hope they swim. Well, they have been training her too, because like when the gas is in there and Cap says, you know, like Wanda, just like we practice. Yeah. It's clear that they have been training her.
01:33:58
Speaker
And so yeah, I think those little moments like that and just that whole opening sequence is so good, right? Oh yeah, yeah. And I mean, it sets the tone for the whole movie. Yeah. This is going to be a high octane action movie.
01:34:15
Speaker
but there's gonna be characterization in there too. Because they do a lot of characterization with Sam and with Cap and their relationship and how they work together and how the Black Widow works together with them. To me, that's what that whole scene was about. It was about teamwork. Yeah, yeah. That's what I love most about it is we see Cap really being a strategist in this movie. Exactly, yeah.
01:34:40
Speaker
Like we've gotten hints of that before, but this, this is the movie when it really shows me, he's like, he's calling the shots. He's, he's calling the plays, telling everybody what they should do, when they should do it and trusting them to go through and do their parts.
01:34:52
Speaker
And I don't think that we can end this discussion without talking about, of course, until Infinity
Giant Man and Humor in Action
01:35:00
Speaker
War. This had the biggest superhero brawl that we had ever seen on screen. Oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, we, OK. Know what I love, first of all? We actually saw them running toward each other. Yeah.
01:35:13
Speaker
You know what, that is so cool that they actually had to, they start off slow walking, but they're not stopping. Well, we're not going to stop either. And then they just run at each other and then, oh, okay. And then from being on his fist flying, energy bolts, arrows, webbing, all kinds, it's just great. Did you ever think you would see a movie where giant man throws war machine into a plane and then Spider-Man crawls over his helmet
01:35:41
Speaker
Oh, you know, first of all, when Scott turns into Giant Man, again, that was like 60% of the theater lost his mind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When he became giant. Because, OK, Ant-Man, yes, I did not ever think we were going to see Giant Man. Yeah, yeah. I love that, too, when everyone's reactions to it, too. Like, Rhodey's like, he's like, OK, Tiny Man's big now. He's big now. And Spider-Man, like I said before, he just, oh, shit. Yeah, yeah.
01:36:07
Speaker
Because he can't believe it. And then Tony says, like, anyone else on our side have any miraculous powers they've been hiding? But yeah, I mean, everybody's reaction to it. And I love what he just says. He says, OK, listen, I'm going to do something. He said, if I end up tearing myself in half, just keep going. Don't say that. Just keep going. The Captain America is like, what did he say? Are you sure about this, Scott? He's like, yeah, I do it all the time. Well, once in a lab, and I passed out afterwards.
01:36:36
Speaker
And in the end, when he asked for orange slices. I mean, I cannot imagine what it took to choreograph that scene. Because we see everybody's powers on display. Yeah, yeah. Especially Ant-Man, who, OK, if there's one thing that these movies have done brilliantly is to show exactly how formidable size changing as a superpower can be. Yes, yeah.
01:37:04
Speaker
Because he sneaks aside the armor at one point, and Iron Man is saying, who's that talking? That's got to be your conscience. Well, he also flips Black Widow around, too. Yeah. Yeah. Right? She gets the jump on him, and then he shrinks down and flips her over. And if not for the fact that he was holding on to her widow sting, he would have won that fight. Oh, man. I mean.
01:37:27
Speaker
Because, yeah, some people can... It's like Aquaman. Everybody say, oh, yeah, well, Aquaman, well, he can just talk to fish. Well, as we saw in the movie, the Aquaman movie, yeah, if you could talk to the right fish...
01:37:41
Speaker
Oh, there's this one great scene, Jeff Johns and Jim Lee, their first arc on Justice League. There's this big fight. The league is all coming together. They're all fighting these parademons. And then Aquaman turns up. And Green Lantern says to him, wait a minute. We can do all this stuff. What can you do? And Aquaman just turns around, and he summons up this army of sharks to come up, jump out of the sea, and take out the parademons. Yeah.
01:38:11
Speaker
I mean, if you talk to the right fish, it's a formidable power. And again, size changing. OK, yeah, well, so he can change sizes. So what? Oh, it's a pretty big deal. Literally, yeah. If you know what you're doing. Yeah. I mean, that battle, I sat there and I watched, and I said, you know what? I got to see this movie again just to see that. Oh, yeah. Because everybody got a chance to show off exactly what they can do.
01:38:39
Speaker
Also, I love the, I love just Paul Rudd interacting, geeking out, right? When he meets them all for the first time. He says, oh, and he grabs Captain America. He's like, is he real? He grabs him by the bicep. Yeah, it's like, oh man, he's Captain America, you know. And he even looks at Captain White, he's like, it's Captain America. Yeah. He said, I want to thank you for thanking of me. Thanks for thanking of me.
01:39:08
Speaker
Oh, man. Paul Rudd is so great. And then when he sees Falcon, he's like, hey. And he's like, what's up, tic-tac? He's like, about last time. He's like, it's never going to happen again. I love him as a. I love those Ant-Man movies. Yeah, yeah. Just such a different tone, but still in keeping in line with,
01:39:37
Speaker
the rest of the MCU movies and one thing that I think is so brilliant about the way that they do these movies is that yeah each individual movie okay like for instance you have the Iron Man movies they're superhero movies yes but they're techno thrillers right also you have the Captain America movies they're superhero movies but they're also political thrillers right you have the Ant-Man movies yes they're superhero but they're also crime
01:40:06
Speaker
movies. They're heist movies. Yeah, they don't follow the same formula. They are tailored to the strength of whatever character that particular movie is about. Right.
01:40:24
Speaker
And that was one of the weaknesses of a lot of these superhero movies before the MCU came around was they were just trying to do superhero movies. They weren't trying to take the superhero concept and do another type of movie just with superheroes. Exactly, exactly.
01:40:42
Speaker
and also continue in line with Guardians of the Galaxy, superheroes, but also space opera. Yeah, space opera, right. Yeah, yeah. And finding those little characteristics and bringing out what type of movies it's gonna be, that's what really makes these things stand out. I mean, you've got, look at the Thor movies, right? The Thor movies, you got epic fantasy slash space opera mashed together now, but with superheroes.
01:41:13
Speaker
And yeah, and trying to find the, you know, Black Panther is Afrofuturism. And, you know, trying to find what type of movie you're gonna be telling with superheroes, that's really what's worked really well for these movies.
01:41:26
Speaker
And what makes that big superhero brawl work so well is that we know these characters so well by now. And we know the ideologies that they're fighting for. So there's something really at stake in this fight. It isn't just a bunch of people. Akash was running around beating up on people. You get the feed, you know, you know, there's something really at stake here. These people are really fighting for something. Well, remember this came out in 2016, which was the big year for versus superhero movies, right? Which you had, we had this one and we had Batman V Superman.
01:41:56
Speaker
Now, and it's, it's really telling they both came out in the same year because they both showed the right way and the wrong way to do this concept. Oh, absolutely. Like, Civil War showed us, you know what, because this was what, like the eighth movie in the series or something like that? Something like that, yeah. Yeah.
01:42:13
Speaker
They waited eight movies. They built, they had three solo movies with Iron Man. They had two solo movies with Cap. They had two movies where they worked together. And all that time they're building up these character relationships and who they are individually, how they interact with each other so that then when they go against each other, it's a big deal. And you build up on all that character development. Batman V Superman just threw them together and you, you know what?
01:42:42
Speaker
you know, my ex-wife who I was married to at the time, we saw this, you know, we saw this movie and then we saw, we watched Batman V Superman. I showed her Batman V Superman. And after we finished watching it, I asked her, I'm like, what do you think? And she says, I don't know why they were fighting. I'm like, yeah, nobody does.
01:42:57
Speaker
Yeah, nobody does, yeah. Whereas in this movie, before we even get to the fight, we've had them explain, we've had them talk about their differences. We've had them explain their points of view so that when they're fighting, we know why they're fighting and what they're fighting for. Batman versus Superman, I've seen that movie like three times and I'm pretty sure I will watch it again when we get around to doing it. But the reasons why
01:43:26
Speaker
These characters are doing what they're doing. It's so murky, you know, that you just say, okay. I mean, I don't know. The first time I saw it, I just threw up my hands and I said, well, whatever. Yeah, yeah. Really? I just said, whatever. Well, so I like what this movie did because this did what no other MCU movie has done before, right? And I mentioned this before, but they put the big epic battle scene right in the middle.
01:43:56
Speaker
Yeah. And this is what really makes it a cat movie for me because the conclusion scene, the final battle scene, is just between Cat, Bucky, and Iron Man.
01:44:08
Speaker
Yeah, well, it finally comes down to him and Tony, which is as it should be. Right. Which is as it should be. Right. It becomes a very personal fight just between the two of them. And I really liked how they did that. Right. Because everybody else, like you said, we've got the big superhero battle in the middle, others say. But nothing is really resolved. But you know what? You get your big action scene. Yeah. Because there's no reason to have all these superheroes in a movie and not have them fight. So we had to fight.
01:44:36
Speaker
The true resolution of the story comes when Captain America and Iron Man fight. Because they're the architects of this entire conflict. They were the ones that forced the Avengers to split into these two camps. So it's only right that year. It comes down to those two. Now, I also wanted to talk two more things I wanted to mention before we close out. The first is, I love the relationship between Bucky and Sam.
01:45:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Like, I love this little, like, you know, this, like, sibling rivalry they both have, competing for Cap's affections. It's like the two ex-girlfriends. Yeah, yeah. It's like the ex-girlfriend meeting the new girlfriend. Right, right, yeah, yeah. Like, when they're sitting in the car and Bucky says, can you move your seat up? And Sam's just like, no. Yeah.
01:45:29
Speaker
And afterwards, when Sam uses Red Wing to take out Spider-Man, and Bucky says, you couldn't have done that earlier, and Sam's like, I hate you. He says, oh, I hate you. Also, I love that they had Red Wing in this.
01:45:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I freaked out when I saw Red Wing. And then as soon as it launched off his back, I'm like, that's Red Wing. That's Red Wing. And then when I didn't expect them to ever say anything about it, but then when he helps her at the end, and then she's looking at it, and she says, thanks, Sam. She's like, don't thank me. He's like, I'm not thanking that thing. He's like, his name is Red Wing. Go ahead and pet him. He's cute. Yeah, Natasha said, I am not thanking this thing. And Sam said, yes, you are. His name is Red Wing. That is so cool. Yeah. Yeah.
01:46:15
Speaker
I love it about, they got Red Wing in there, yeah. They got Red Wing in there.
Black Panther's Introduction and Cultural Impact
01:46:20
Speaker
And obviously, the last thing to talk about, which we haven't really talked about that much, is Chadwick Boseman as Black Panther. Ah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, what a masterful introduction to this character. I mean, just like, and him, the first time we see him is in
01:46:40
Speaker
in Geneva for when they go to sign the Accords and he meets Natasha. Yeah, she's the first Avenger that he meets, yeah. And then, you know, you'd expect because of, you know, we saw T'Chaka's speech on TV condemning what the Avengers did and about pushing the Accords. And then this is the first time we see an Avenger interact with the Wakandan. And you'd expect like some sort of animosity or bad blood, but no, he's understanding about the whole situation.
01:47:09
Speaker
Yeah. And he approaches it very diplomatic.
01:47:16
Speaker
And then- Which is when his father even compliments him on. Yeah, yeah. He said, oh, for somebody who keeps saying they don't like diplomacy, he said, you're becoming very good at it. Yeah, yeah. And he also, and I love that line he says to her about when he's telling her, he's like, you know, you don't approve all this? And he says, well, you know, the accords, he asked for the politics, not really. And he says, two men sitting in a room can get more done than a hundred. And then his father comes in and says, unless you're moving a piano.
01:47:46
Speaker
such a wonderful, I mean, Chadwick Boseman, the first time we see him as the child, he's regal, he's charming, he's intelligent.
01:47:55
Speaker
you know he's projecting all of this and we haven't even seen him in the costume yet and we like him. Right yeah and then okay this is the guy. Well even when he interacts with Tachaka too like just they're only on screen together for what like three minutes? That's it. And they establish everything we need to know about their father-son relationship and it's all
01:48:18
Speaker
Boom, right there in those few minutes. It's perfectly laid out, yeah. A masterful job of acting, you know, because yeah, it's a whole relationship that's packed into those three minutes that they're on screen together. And just these few lines when they, and then, and you know, John Conde, they use his native language of Zosha, I think it's pronounced. Yeah, yeah. And that was T'Challa's, that was Bojman's idea, actually.
01:48:48
Speaker
because they were originally gonna make like a...
01:48:51
Speaker
They're originally not gonna have them, I don't think they were gonna have them speak any sort of language or they were come up with a fake language or something, but you know, Bozeman said, no, let's use, because we got John Conde here, because his native language is Zosia, let's use that for the Wakandan language. Right, that's what it was. I vaguely remember reading something somewhere about that they was gonna bring in some linguist and they were gonna come up with some made up language, everything like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Chary Bozeman said, no, we don't have to do all that, you know,
01:49:20
Speaker
Well, because they hinted that even in Age of Ultron when, because they talk about Closetat, the branding, and Banner says, oh yeah, it means thief in an African language. And he says Wakandan is the African language. Yeah, right, yeah. Yeah, but they didn't go that route. And you know what? Listen, I have no problem with whatever way that they went as far as the Black Panther is concerned, because his introduction in,
01:49:47
Speaker
This is a nice little introduction, because we get to see kind of like an origin story from his father getting killed. And then we don't get like the claw stuff. Right. Because I believe in the comic books it was claw that killed his father. So we don't get here, but we get kind of like an origin thing because
01:50:06
Speaker
apparently from the dialogue that he says to Captain America and Sam, when they're in the car after they've got caught and their stuff has been taken, it's like he didn't become the Black Panther until after his father got killed. No, no, he says that the Black Panther is like the chief warrior of my tribe. Right. But so he has been the Black Panther. He's like, but now thanks to your friend, I also were the mantle of king. Oh, OK. Yeah. So he had apparently inherited the Black Panther role already.
01:50:36
Speaker
uh-huh which makes sense because you know he's handles it really well well yeah i mean apparently i mean listen
01:50:43
Speaker
the way he's running around and flipping and he's doing all the acrobatics and I mean the fighting skills and everything. He's been doing this for a while. Yeah. In my head, Cannon, is that he's been operating in Africa. Yes, yes. For a while. And there's been stories of the Black Panther and, you know, like when he needs going to another country, you know, like another country says, well. Well, just like that opening scene in the Black Panther movie.
01:51:07
Speaker
when they go to get Nakia. Like I get the sense that that was not the first time they've done one of those missions. Right, exactly. He's been doing that in Africa, you know, like for a while. So it's not, you know, so he's no amateur. Right. Well, it's the same thing with Shuri and all the tech. You get the sense that this is not the first time she's done this for him.
01:51:27
Speaker
Oh, no, no. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a whole world that's implied that yet he's been doing this before. But also his after John Conde dies, that line he says
01:51:41
Speaker
when Natasha comes out to me and says, like, you know, in my country, death is not the end. It's a stepping off point. It's like you reach out with your arms in Baston's segment. They take you to the, to the belt where you can run forever. Yeah. And she's like, well, that sounds nice. I'm thinking like, man, I don't want to run forever.
01:52:00
Speaker
But that's kind of like foreshadowing what we see later on in the Black Panther movie. Right, yeah, yeah. He actually has a vision and he goes to where his ancestors are. Yes, yeah, yeah. Considering the star power that's in this movie, Chadwick Bouldsman, he holds his own quite effectively. Exactly, yeah. And then his introduction as the Black Panther, like when they're in Romania, I think it is.
01:52:27
Speaker
Yeah. And I remember seeing that, like, I was, I got chills watching that scene. Oh man, you want to talk about somebody who stood up and cheered in there, and Patricia said, sit down, sit down, sit down, sit down for me, it's the Black Panther, go get him, go get him. And also, one thing I like about that scene is we see, like, how badass just having, like, with Falcon, like, just having wings can be. Well, yeah, you know what?
01:52:56
Speaker
And I hear this from people. I remember years ago, I was having an argument with somebody that was told about how much I liked the angel. And they said, the angel? I said, yeah, the X-Men. And they said, psst. All these guys have wings. I said, do you have wings?
01:53:11
Speaker
There was an issue of Thunderbolts by Fabian Nisieza, I think wrote, where Angel went up against the Thunderbolts. And he had all these creative uses for him just use his wings. And he almost took out the whole damn team. Exactly, yeah.
01:53:26
Speaker
I mean, if you know what you're doing with it, you know, yeah, it's not the power is what you do with it. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, you know, like the Black Panther. Yeah, you know, OK, he's got the vibrating suit. He's got the claws and everything like that. But as we can see from this movie and later on in Black Panther, he's a very strategic fighter. Yeah. Now, you know what I noticed about this movie and Winter Soldier and you know what they have in common with the 1990 Captain America movie? What's that?
01:53:57
Speaker
Captain America steals a car in each one of them. Are you saying Captain America, the sense of liberty, is no one that a comic car jacker? I think the only one where even in First Avenger they kind of do, because they steal the Red Skulls car at the end to catch up to the ship. Yeah. I mean, that was Tommy Lee Jones who stole it. But still, like almost every single movie, he steals a car.
01:54:25
Speaker
How do you call Captain America a carjacker? It's right up there on the screen, man. I'm not the one doing it. Yeah, every movie, Captain America steals a car. The things you notice, I like it. Really, I've never noticed that before, but now that I think about it, you know some guy, you know what, this character is right. Oh, man. All right.
01:54:50
Speaker
All right, I think that's all I really got to say about this movie. Oh, I did like, oh, wait, one more thing. The Stan Lee cameo at the end. Ah, he plays the, what, the FedEx guy? The FedEx guy, yeah. And he says, is Tony Stank here? Stank, Tony Stank. And he's like, and Brody's like, yes, yes, he's here. This is Tony Stank. He's like, never, never going away by the way.
01:55:18
Speaker
We also get another community cameo in this, because we had Danny Booty and Winter Soldier. And in this one, we get the guy who played the dean. Yeah, yeah, he's trying. So this dog goes backstage, and the guy says, listen, the grads should give it out. I know it's just for the students, but couldn't you divert a little bit of that money to the faculty? Yeah, because I got this idea for a self-heating hot dog. A self-heating hot dog. Oh, man.
01:55:48
Speaker
And then also we get, there's a reference to Arrested Development too, because the Russo's worked on that show as well. When they're running in the airport, like you see the stair car from Arrested Development. I mean, it's got a different name, like a different side of the fake airline name, but the logo is the blue logo from Arrested Development. Oh, okay. That's a nice little reference they put in there too.
01:56:14
Speaker
And then of course we get Alfrey Woodard is the first person in the MCU to play two characters.
01:56:22
Speaker
because she plays the State Department employee who confronts Tony Stark. Yeah. And later on, Luke Cage, she plays Black Mamba. Yeah, later on, Luke, you're right. She shows up in Luke Cage later on. Yeah. And Mahershala Ali is going to be following those footsteps because he's going to be playing Blade after he played, what was his name, Cottonmouth. Yeah, he played Cottonmouth. Luke Cage. He played that in Luke Cage. So he's going to be showing up as Blade, which should be interesting. Yeah.
01:56:48
Speaker
All right. Oh, I also love the little interaction where we see Okoye and Natasha. And Okoye is like move or you will be moved. And even T'Challa is just like, and T'Challa is like, you know what? That would be really fun to watch. That would really be fun to watch. But we ain't got time for that.
01:57:08
Speaker
But you know what I notice here in this movie is that the whole thing about Wakanda posing as a third world nation, as this poor third world nation, that was- That's not in this movie. No, because- That's not in this movie. Because they acknowledge, Natasha says, it took the whole world 70 years to find Barnes. You could probably do that in half the time.
01:57:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, it seems as if, you know, between this movie and the Black Panther, they made a kind of decision. They said, okay, well, we're gonna hope nobody notices. Yeah, it does seem like Wakanda is a little more prominent and well known.
01:57:42
Speaker
in this movie than it is then as we see I mean you know later on yeah because in the Black Panther it's like everybody thinks well it's this poor third world country that's got nothing to offer to the rest of the world but no not in this yeah in this movie it's like a different type of vibe that you get
01:58:01
Speaker
as far as that's concerned. But then, okay, at that time, they knew they was gonna make a Black Panther movie, but they just didn't know what kind of Black Panther movie they were gonna make. Right, exactly. I think this was before Ryan Coover even signed on, actually. Yeah, it was, yeah. So, yeah, they weren't sure exactly what they were gonna do. So, you know, I just chalk it up as one of those unavoidable
01:58:27
Speaker
uh things that slip through especially when you're making a whole series of movies and considering how consistent they are with the continuity in all of these movies i'm willing to forgive them the occasional slip exactly yeah same because they don't make many of them they don't know not at all not at all no they're very consistent yeah yeah
01:58:45
Speaker
So I'm willing to let that one go by, especially in a movie as this one. And again, I know I say this a lot of times, folks, but it's true. I start out watching, and I haven't seen this for a while. Thank you for suggesting it, because I haven't seen this movie. I'm sitting there, and of course, I have my notebook, and I say, okay, well, I'm going to be making notes as a little thing.
01:59:07
Speaker
damn it, 15 minutes into the movie, I forget I'm supposed to be watching it critically and I'm into the plot and the story. Yeah. You know, that's what I'm doing. I'm watching it. I'm not supposed to be watching it as entertainment, but I can't help it. I've done got caught up in the story. Absolutely. As I said, because I haven't seen this movie in like, I don't know, maybe about two or three years, I haven't seen it. So it was like almost watching like a brand new movie. Because there was some, there were some parts of it I had forgotten, you know. Yes. Oh, shit.
01:59:36
Speaker
this was in it before you know so yeah so uh yeah this is a movie uh i love this and every time i like you know the time between watching it the and and then i go back and i watch it again it always surprises me just how much character development is packed into this movie
01:59:54
Speaker
Oh, the writing is, I mean, you know, terrific because, yeah, there's a lot of characterization. But then, but then again, this is building on all the previous movies that we've seen already. So there's a lot of things that we already know about these characters so that, you know,
02:00:09
Speaker
It doesn't have to, if you've been following all of the previous movies, which you probably have, if you're a fan of these movies, then you know these characters. Well, this is one of those movies that really rewards people who have been following it throughout the whole series. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of payoff in there. Yes. Yeah.
02:00:26
Speaker
a lot of things that have been simmering, a lot of threads that we've been seeing, and I mean, they get picked up. And then there's a lot of other things that we see have ramifications later on down the road, because he gets paralyzed in these, you know, he gets paralyzed. Right, yeah, roadie gets paralyzed. And, you know, we have Natasha, apparently she vanishes after this, you know,
02:00:49
Speaker
Yes, because this this movie is going to because the Black Widow movie takes place right after this. Right. Yeah. Which explains what happened to her. Yes. Yeah. Apparently, she goes back to Russia. You know, right. Yeah. After the events of this movie. Yes. So
02:01:04
Speaker
So there's that also, I mean, we get the, you know, Spider-Man and Black Panther out of this as well. We're going to see more. We get, you know, the WandaVision relationship that gets picked up on in Infinity War. And it's so influenced. And then, you know, WandaVision as well. You don't get to WandaVision without having Civil War. Right.
02:01:24
Speaker
You know, and I mean, this is one of these things. I mean, I watched this movie and after I finished watching it, I immediately wanted, I had to stop myself. Otherwise I would have kept on watching one Marvel, one MCU movie right after another. Cause it's like that. Yeah. When you watch one, you say, oh shit, I want to watch, you know, you want to watch the next one.
02:01:42
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. One other thing I just remembered is when Cap fights Spider-Man, and then at the end of the fight, he's got Spider-Man trapped holding up the walkway or whatever. And he says to him, he's like, you got heart, kid. Where are you from? And he says, Queens. And then Cap just kind of smirks, and he says, Brooklyn.
02:02:02
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. The little Queens Brooklyn rivalry. I love that. Little Queens Brooklyn. I was about, yeah, I'm about to, if you don't, okay, for those of you who don't live in New York, there's kind of, there's always been like kind of like this little rivalry between the boroughs, you know, especially Brooklyn and Queens. So yeah, so that was a little nod to that, you know, Brooklyn Queens, you know, rivalry. That's also that thing, that's one of the things we talked about when we talked about First Avengers, that Cap never forgets where he came from.
02:02:32
Speaker
Right? He always, he's still a Brooklyn kid at heart. Yeah. Yeah. Matter of fact, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to post up on the Superhero Cinephile Facebook page for you guys who are members. And if you're not, why aren't you? Because as a matter of fact, I saw it today. Because I had to go to, there's a mall that we have down here. And they have the Captain America statue. Oh, he saw it again.
02:02:57
Speaker
Yeah. So every time I go there, I always, you know, I can't help it. I got to look at the statue. Yeah. So I'll post pictures because I take your pictures when they had it at the Barclays Stadium. They had it outside and then they moved it into this mall and that's where it is now. And this is huge. It's like a 10 foot tall statue, you know, of him. You know, it's honking fantastic. Nice. Yeah. Yeah.
02:03:22
Speaker
Okay. All right. Yeah. But yeah, and it says on the statue that yeah, I'm just here from Brooklyn. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I remember seeing the. All right. So do we have anything else to talk about with Civil War?
02:03:37
Speaker
only that if you have not seen Civil War yet, I have no idea why you're listening to this podcast.
Civil War's Success as an MCU Landmark
02:03:44
Speaker
I really don't because this is, in many ways, in a series that had a whole bunch of landmark movies, this one is a landmark. It had undoubtedly the largest cast of superheroes in one movie to date in this movie. Before it did.
02:04:03
Speaker
uh before end game yeah before end game this movie had more superheroes than you had ever seen before yeah it and it had a solid plot it had solid characterization this movie did not skimp on anything and this is one of the rare examples where the movie adaptation is far superior to the comic book the source yeah if you if you read
02:04:28
Speaker
civil war. And if you've been listening to my esteemed partner, then you will know that this is a far better adaptation. I know we hear that old thing all the time. Well, the movie is never as good as, you know, the source material. Well, apparently, yeah. There are exceptions to that. There are exceptions. And this is one of them. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah.
02:04:50
Speaker
All right, so that about does it for this week. Now, next week, we're tossing it back to you for your pick. So what do you got in mind for next? You know what I want to do? I'm definitely going to switch it up. I'm going to give us something that we could just bitch about.
02:05:08
Speaker
No, really. I mean, we maybe we've had like complaints about some of the movies that we see. But we haven't had a movie that we can honestly just say, you know what? I hate this piece of shit. And I'm going to tell you why. Oh, God, I'm getting scared. But I want to give it to you. And I think you have a feeling of what it is. All right. It's going to be The Spirit, directed by Frank Miller.
02:05:30
Speaker
Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I was terrified. It was going to be a Batman V Superman for a minute there. So I'm a little bit, I'm a little bit relieved. No, no, no. We'll get to that later on. Okay. You know, we'll get to that sometime down the road, but. Yeah. You got to give me time to get my, my blood pressure, pressure medication for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't have any booze handy. So until I have some, and then we can do Batman versus Superman. That's probably the only way I want to get through that episode.
02:05:58
Speaker
All right, I figured yeah for change. Let me pick something that I know we're going to hate and I know a lot of people hate just You know just for a change of pace and okay about everything this movie absolutely gets wrong All right, sounds good. Okay, so join us uh next week when we're going to be talking about the god-awful Spirit movie and we're probably going to give ourselves aneurysms in the process more than likely yeah, so so so
02:06:28
Speaker
So I'm telling y'all guys in advance, so you can stock up on your blood pressure medicine, your medical marijuana, your alcoholic beverage of choice to get through the episode. Okay. Oh God. I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to do some day drinking because I record this in the morning for me. So yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, but like I said, I think it'd be a nice change of pace.
02:06:52
Speaker
Okay, all right, so join us next week where we'll be talking about the spirit. Until then, as Derek mentioned before, go to the Superhero Cinephiles group on Facebook, sign up there. And because, you know, we're still taking requests for our 50th episode, which is going to be around sooner than we think so.
02:07:10
Speaker
Make sure you drop in there, request a movie. We're going to start up a poll, probably in a few weeks. We'll start up a poll, let people vote on what movie they want us to do a live commentary on. And again, I'm going to tell you right now, if you leave it up to me, the live commentary will be on Batman versus Superman. Yeah, they might actually like that. But it might be worse, because he might do something like the cobbler, or I don't know, or Condor Man, or who knows what. Yeah, Condor. Oh, yeah.
02:07:39
Speaker
Who in their right mind could forget the classic condo man? Everybody except for you. Yeah, probably.
02:07:48
Speaker
Trust me, folks. Trust me, this is something you do not want to leave up to me. Yeah, yeah. So go on there, give us some suggestions, and we'll put up a poll soon to let you guys vote on the suggestions we've heard so far. Until then, we will talk to you next time. Head over to Apple Podcasts, leave us a review. We're also on YouTube now. So if you go over to the website, superherosinafiles.com, you can find a link to our YouTube page.
02:08:14
Speaker
We're going to start preparing. We're starting to put the episodes on there. So just go and subscribe because the more subscribers we get on YouTube, then eventually we can start, you know, monetizing the YouTube page as well and get some advertising dollars for that as well. And also let us know if you'd like to see what we look like. If you'd like to see us start, you know, doing these things, you know,
02:08:38
Speaker
on YouTube, you know, can we do the thing with the Zoom stuff like that? Yeah. Yeah. In fact, that's what we're going to begin. Like when we do the live commentary episode, that's going to be our episode 50. That's going to be our first video episode. Oh, OK, then. So OK. So you folks, I hope you're ready. Yes. Damn, I got to get a haircut in the shade. You got to get yourself camera ready. Oh, man, I look horrendous. All right. Of course, we'll still have it just as a podcast if you don't want to look at our faces.
02:09:08
Speaker
But why wouldn't you want to look at a pair of handsome devils? What's that have to do with us? All right. If you want to look at a pair of handsome devils, you could watch Civil War. All right. Thanks so much for listening, and we will talk to you next time. OK. Good night. God bless. Thank you for listening.
02:09:39
Speaker
Thanks for listening to the Superhero Cinephiles Podcast. If you have any questions or comments about this or any other episode, or if you have a superhero movie or TV show you'd like us to cover in a future episode, you can email us at superheroescinephiles at gmail.com, or you can also visit us on the web at superheroescinephiles.com.
02:09:59
Speaker
If you like what you hear, leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. Each review helps us reach more potential listeners. You can also support the show by renting or purchasing the movies discussed, or by picking up our books, all of which can be accessed through the website, as well as find links to our social media presences. The theme music for this show is a shortened version of Superhero Showdown, a royalty-free piece of music, courtesy of fezlionstudios.com.