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Comics Catch-Up 079: Spectacular Spider-Man Magazine #2
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This month, we're looking back to the 1968 magazine where Norman Osborn returned as the Green Goblin! He and Peter do drugs, and it's all lovingly rendered by John Romita Sr.
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Transcript
Introduction to Zencastr and Comics Catch-Up
00:00:00
Speaker
This show is recorded using Zencaster. If you are a podcaster or you want to be a podcaster and you want to be able to record remotely, you can do so using Zencaster. They also have hosting options and you can let them know that we sent you. Follow the link in our show notes or in the episode description and sign up for an account on Zencaster now to start recording your own podcast.
00:00:28
Speaker
Oh, my dad is carnage. I think he's responsible for the world. This is Comics Catch-Up. Hey, twerp. You better not be mine.
00:00:40
Speaker
Come on.
00:00:52
Speaker
we read comics suggested by you, the listeners of War Rocket Apex, that we have missed. Oh, hey! it's I haven't seen you in I don't know how long.
00:01:04
Speaker
Let's catch up.
Spectacular Spider-Man Magazine Discussion
00:01:05
Speaker
This is Comics Catch Up, the show where I, Matt Wilson, and my life companion, Chris Sims, hello we read the comics that we didn't read when they came out, or maybe they were made some 25 years before our birth.
00:01:26
Speaker
And that is the case, or 15 years? Maybe 15 years. Whatever the case, ah this what we're reading this time is from before we were born. It is a spectacular Spider-Man magazine issue number two from 1968 Stanley and John Romita by stanley and john ramida senior And ah this is what I'll start with, Chris.
00:02:00
Speaker
I was reading this really trying to like wrap my head around why this was a magazine and not a regular comic book. It was bigger.
00:02:11
Speaker
It was bigger, and it did reach a point where both the Green Goblin and Spider-Man were on psychedelics.
00:02:23
Speaker
Yes. And I was like, oh, that's why. Because this wouldn't be Comics Code approved, of course. Then I looked at the cover, and there's a Comics Code seal on the cover. Yeah, no, I think it was just, like... i think it was just making a bigger comic.
00:02:42
Speaker
You know, like, make make it magazine-sized as, as like ah like, a special thing. Yeah. I also read the first one, by the way. And I do wish we were talking about it because a a guy in that just shows up and is 12 feet tall.
00:03:00
Speaker
And that's that happens a lot in Fist of the North Star. So it's fun see that happen elsewhere. do you think that Stan Lee was inspired by Fist of the North Star, a comic that didn't exist yet? a comic that did not exist
Historical Context and Publishing Constraints
00:03:17
Speaker
yet. ah Absolutely.
00:03:19
Speaker
Yeah. Hey, if you're going to steal, steal from the best. That's what Stan says. Look, we can talk about issue one. I haven't read issue one. ah It's not what was submitted to us. But if you want to if we don't want to do a bonus ranking of issue one, we can.
00:03:35
Speaker
It's very pretty. ah it's It's an extremely ah pretty book and ultimately is not as important as what happens in this one. there's just There's just a big dude that I don't think we ever see again who kills a a candidate for the mayor of New York City.
00:03:57
Speaker
And himself also dies. Okay. this is That is a black and white issue. this Number two is in full color.
00:04:07
Speaker
It looks good, though. Which, again, like... raises the question of, like, why is this a magazine and not just a regular comic book?
00:04:18
Speaker
mean, I guess it's Marvel just trying to do new stuff with formats or or try different formats. I mean, in, you know, 68, Marvel was, like, kind of branching out into doing weirder stuff. I mean, this is about when we got, like... I feel like this is around when we got into Stan's weird experimentation with magazines, like him doing...
00:04:40
Speaker
ah His weird celebrity magazine. Yeah. and And also doing his weird porn comics with Pussycat. Oh, yeah. Is this around the time of Not Brandeck?
00:04:53
Speaker
Probably. Yeah. Let me see when Not Brandeck started. Also, this just dawned on me. I know there was a a time.
00:05:06
Speaker
Yes, it is around the time of Not Brandeck. But that was a comic book. It wasn't a magazine. Yeah. But, you know, you see, you see, you go to the newsstand because it's 1968.
00:05:20
Speaker
You time travel to 1968. You choose not to warn anyone about anything. Yeah. ah You go to the newsstand. You see, like, you know, see, like, Batman, Superman. They're comic book sized.
00:05:34
Speaker
You see the Spectacular Spider-Man. It's magazine-sized. Yeah. And it's got a fully painted cover. Looks good. The cover to number one is fine.
00:05:48
Speaker
The cover to number two. The number one good. That's the one that they wind up using for... swear I've read this book before. And they used it for a ah paperback.
00:05:59
Speaker
And that's the cover they went with. This is the much better cover that I definitely had as a trading card. the The cover to number two is Green Goblin blasting something out of his finger. love Little fireworks sparkles? Little fireworks sparkles out of his pointer finger at Spider-Man. He's jubilean.
Character Interactions and Dated Dialogue
00:06:19
Speaker
He's jubilean on that cover. but It's reminiscent of the the image of... you know, Goblin flying around with Spider-Man tied up behind him.
00:06:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of they're kind of in the same orientation. Yeah. I will say this about number two. like I flipped through number one a little bit. I didn't read it. The art in that is good.
00:06:43
Speaker
The art in number two is, like, pristine. Really? i like the i like the look of number one a lot. I like the look of number two so much. I think, um and part of it is I read it on Marvel Unlimited, and the I think it's been recolored on there.
00:07:03
Speaker
So, like, everything is, like, absolutely, like, every character looks like the model sheet.
00:07:16
Speaker
You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, it is it is potentially the most John Romita comic. Yeah, I mean, I will say, though, like it is it gets weird and trippy in a way that a lot of stories that John Romita drew aren't as much.
00:07:33
Speaker
I mean, not to say that there aren't John Romita stories that get weird. like Peter has six arms in a John Romita story. But nonetheless, like I feel like this is like trippy in an interesting way and like looks...
00:07:53
Speaker
like You could take an individual piece of art, and it would be like the art that they would put on the back of a cereal box or something. like it it It feels like the kind of Marvel TM brand
00:08:10
Speaker
look of a Spider-Man comic book. like Yeah, everything in this is Marvel comics. Yeah, I... i I'm a Ditko partisan and and have said so on the show before.
00:08:24
Speaker
not that I dislike John Romita Sr., but Ditko did all of this stuff first. And I like the i kind of prefer the weirdness of Ditko in many ways. But this is like this issue, like this single magazine, is such an argument for John Romita Sr., I feel like. It's like...
00:08:44
Speaker
right It's funny that you mention that because like I could not help but mentally compare this to ah Spider-Man Annual No. 1, which is also very much in our an artist showcase for Steve Ditko. um But yeah, every time I see Ditko get Gwen Stacy, the thought goes through my head of, remember what they took from you.
00:09:03
Speaker
yeah Remember what they took from all of us. She's so mean. I'm trying to do a little bit of research. What was the time period where Marvel could only publish like eight comics per month? ah That was 1997.
00:09:19
Speaker
nice
00:09:24
Speaker
Like there was some kind of... if There was a time period like not too long into Marvel existing. I remember this from Marvel Comics, The Untold Story, the the book...
00:09:36
Speaker
That is kind of like a biography of Marvel Comics. Yeah, and an invaluable book by Sean Howe. Yes. that like i Maybe it was in the 70s?
00:09:49
Speaker
But I feel like it was around this time period. like There was a time where Marvel could only, for some kind of reason involving the printer that they worked with, they could only publish eight titles at a time.
00:10:02
Speaker
In a month. And so a lot of books got cancelled or became like limited series or whatever. That's why the Hulk book initially was not...
00:10:16
Speaker
Was a miniseries, I think? ah Well, Hulk ends at number six, but I had always heard that was like a sales thing. but it's saying a But it being a printing thing makes more sense. Because it does... Then you get... Like...
00:10:29
Speaker
ah like ah Strange Tales and ah Tales to Astonish, which are like split books. So Hulk comes back in that.
00:10:41
Speaker
It's why a lot of the hero solo books were not named. Like, Thor was Journey into Mystery for so long, because... They thought Journey into Mystery would sell better because people recognize the name, but they couldn't publish two books at the same time because of some kind of like printer issue. i'll I'll have to go back and research that because I know that there's something about that. and maybe that Maybe that explains why this is a magazine, because they wanted to have a second Spider-Man book, but they couldn't make it a comic.
00:11:15
Speaker
And yet they only made two of these. They only made two of these. it got It got canceled after the second one, even though this has a teaser for a third issue. Yeah, but this it does make sense that they would only that they would not be able to do more of this, right? Like, it's it's huge.
00:11:31
Speaker
Yeah, it's... What, 58 oversized pages? Like, that's one of the reasons that it looks so good, is because it's literally on a bigger page.
00:11:44
Speaker
It's like, let's see... You've got like another square foot of art. There's a couple of two-page spreads in this, so it might even be like 62 pages?
00:11:57
Speaker
Yeah.
Norman Osborn's Green Goblin Revelation
00:11:58
Speaker
it the I mean, the last page is numbered 58. and Okay. so i know I know there are a couple of two-page spreads in here, though. so Yeah, look at that look at how good that that first two-page spread looks, where it's it's it's everybody in the cast and and Spider-Man and Norman Osborn twice.
00:12:22
Speaker
Yeah. like it's a it's It's got space. But like even with the mid-60s Marvel workhouse philosophy,
00:12:34
Speaker
like ah John Romita's not drawing 60 pages of comics every month or whenever this came out, you know? Yeah, i I wonder if it was like a quarterly... Published quarterly is what it says in the ah in the small print.
00:12:49
Speaker
Yeah, that would make sense. But even even so, like it's a lot of extra work for the guy who was also drawing monthly... Who's also drawing Amazing Spider-Man, yeah. yeah um To get into the contents of the issue a bit, it is good. think...
00:13:08
Speaker
i think You know, it it is 58 pages. There are quite a few pages that are just ah dedicated to telling you who the Green Goblin is.
00:13:25
Speaker
And, like, giving the previous story in the in the text. So, like... not ah all of this is a new story. Like we have to learn about why Norman Osborn forgot he was the Green Goblin.
00:13:43
Speaker
Yeah. But I mean like, but it is new and that it's like, it's, it's it's new and that it's a recap and not just like a reprint. That's true. I mean, i but i'm what I'm saying is, is like, it spends a good amount of time rehashing the previous Green Goblin story ah for better or worse. I mean, you know,
00:14:03
Speaker
You have to assume that not everybody reading this has read whatever issue of Amazing Spider-Man that happened in. yeah i mean like i like I really feel like this was more than the first issue, which is weird.
00:14:19
Speaker
This is the one that's like, new readers start here. like If you haven't read Spider-Man before, well, here's a big one. Here's one that's physically larger. It's three times as long.
00:14:32
Speaker
It's at least twice as long. And it has a big deal. like It has a big moment in it. You'll get a recap of everything you need to know.
00:14:43
Speaker
And the this story will continue in the pages of Amazing Spider-Man Monthly. yes The end? Very much the end? question mark the This starts with such a weird scenario where Peter...
00:15:01
Speaker
Jonah, Norman, and Harry are at a meeting. And Robbie. Robbie's there. Robbie's also there. They're at a meeting of something called the Executive Club, where George Stacy is giving a presentation about Spider-Man and the Green Goblin.
00:15:20
Speaker
Yeah, he's a a seminar on the history of supervillains. And, like, there's so much explanation to... get to why they're all here.
00:15:33
Speaker
like Like, Norman invited Peter here, and Norman is you know sweating and getting upset because he's seeing the Green Goblin, because he he he he sort of has us a sense that this is familiar to him, but he doesn't actually remember that he's the Green Goblin.
00:15:54
Speaker
Because he got his head bonked in an explosion the last time he and Spider-Man fought, and he forgot he was the Goblin. He he did suffer a a vicious bonking at the at the hands of Spider-Man.
00:16:05
Speaker
Yeah. And... So, he this leads him to remember that he's the Green Goblin. like they They take him to the hospital...
00:16:17
Speaker
He's like delirious at the hospital thinking about Spider-Man and the Green Goblin and how those faces, they're the worst I've ever seen. And ah then he just like sits up and he says, at last, I know, the Green Goblin isn't dead. He never died.
00:16:36
Speaker
I am the Goblin. And like he is saying this in the middle of a hospital where you would think somebody would have heard that. I mean, you would think.
00:16:49
Speaker
like He is shown, like just like having been behind like a divider screen, that Harry and a doctor are behind. But um they did they apparently didn't hear that. i i like this because um that panel where he's sitting up in bed, shaking his fist and yelling, i am the goblin, that's also how I get out of bed every morning.
00:17:14
Speaker
There's like a spectral Green Goblin behind him while he's saying that too. yeah i i don't know how this how much this reflects the original coloring. i It may just be cleaned up, I guess.
00:17:27
Speaker
Because you know there's there's no credit for like a recoloring job on this. It's just still credited to Jimmy Mooney. But the coloring... that There's some... like you know, trippy coloring in this book. Like that that panel in particular is like, Norman is all yellow and blue.
00:17:51
Speaker
uh, I love that. I love the kind of look of that. Yeah. in In the original, he's, he's very kind of like yellow with like blue shading and then everything else in the room is purple. So it's, it's like a yellow green, purple, orange, the spectral goblin behind him.
00:18:07
Speaker
Yeah. the Which is green, obviously, but like, obviously. Yeah. Um, so So Norman like goes like frantically into the streets and finds one of his um like old hideouts where he he finds a Green Goblin outfit and a glider. This is the funniest shit in the world to me.
00:18:28
Speaker
Because he's wandering down a sketchy neighborhood, one of the most sordid slum areas which infest the savage sprawling city. Of course. And he goes into this room...
00:18:39
Speaker
Which I think is is like in one of those old-style men's boarding house hotels. Because there's like a ah placard on the wall of rules.
00:18:51
Speaker
Yeah, yeah it's it's got to be something like that. yeah yeah So then he goes into this room, and it's just this like shitty hotel room. And there's a coat rack. And his whole Green Goblin costume is just hanging up on the coat rack.
00:19:04
Speaker
On the wall, yeah. On the wall, with... with with the glider on the floor. And it's it's it's not like a follow the cold chill running down in your spine. It's just like, if you walk in here, you would go to hang your coat off be like, oh, i guess the Green Goblin lives here. It's so funny.
00:19:25
Speaker
Also, like I know this is how it's supposed to look. like This is how the Green Goblin
Comedic Elements of the Goblin Costume
00:19:30
Speaker
looks. But never in my life have I thought that the Green Goblin's like bag of bombs and stuff... ah Never have ah before have I thought it looked more like a purse.
00:19:40
Speaker
I mean, that' that's what it is. It's a purse it's like yeah. like. Yeah. It's always kind of been that, but man, Ramita really made it look like a purse here. budd which great i it's That's what it looks like.
00:19:54
Speaker
what i What I think is notable is that the costume has little boot tops that are not the boots he wears. So like the the costume has the green legs, but then...
00:20:10
Speaker
Those little purple parts at the bottom, those aren't part of the boot, those are part of the of of the leg? The pant, yeah. Of the pant. So he he puts that on, and then just, I guess, puts on little low-top pointy-toed elf shoes.
00:20:24
Speaker
It's like when a wrestler wears kick pads. It is exactly like when a wrestler wears kick pads, except these are attached to his entire bodysuit. Yeah, to his pant legs.
00:20:37
Speaker
ah but But Peter is so worried about Norman and maybe him remembering that he's a Green Goblin that he goes to class at Empire State University and can't concentrate.
00:20:49
Speaker
And the professor calls him out on it. Real dick like move on the part of the professor. He's like, Mr. Parker, if you must sleep in lab, at least be good enough to shut your eyes while you do so.
00:21:02
Speaker
Hey, man, we got to talk about this. Every teacher in Peter Parker's life failed him. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. like Like, if you've got a student who is this smart, but also like this distracted, and like shows up beat to shit all the time because he's been Spider-Man... You've got to sit that kid down and be like, what's going on, man? Yeah. Hey, talk to me, man. Yeah.
00:21:27
Speaker
Like, meanwhile, this professor's just acting like a real dick. like what What happened to all those university safe spaces? That's what I want to know. Like, what he says doesn't even make that much sense. It's like, you're asleep, but with your eyes open.
00:21:46
Speaker
What are you talking about, man? Hey, man, leave me the fuck alone. That's what Peter should be saying to all these dudes. Peter leaves school. He gets hit by a kid's toy airplane and flips out.
00:22:02
Speaker
That it's the Green Goblin. And then he reveals that he can like attach to a tree to these two kids. It's just the one kid. Because the other kid's like, right that guy's not good at climbing a tree.
00:22:17
Speaker
Skip the fairy tales, Joey. Your ma said I should tell you dinner's ready. That's what the kid says. Yeah. oh It will later become a apparent.
00:22:28
Speaker
That fucking Sam Raimi loves this comic. ah By the way. ah So Peter has a bad dream about the goblin kidnapping him in front of Aunt May.
00:22:40
Speaker
easy Is this after the scene where he goes to see Aunt May for the first time? Because we gotta talk about Peter's interactions with Aunt May, too. i he He talked to Aunt May before this, I think. Yeah, he talked to Aunt May before this. I know that this is like...
00:22:57
Speaker
In every Spider-Man comic of the era. out But, like, the way Peter, like, gases up Aunt May... I've seen this a million times, but for some reason it struck me as being so weird that Peter's whole thing is like, I'm gonna go hit on my aunt, and that's gonna make her feel better.
00:23:18
Speaker
Well, also, like, she's saying, that like, the whole... thing conceit in this particular issue is that she keeps saying things wrong and Peter keeps correcting her.
00:23:30
Speaker
i Yeah. So she goes she says teeny booper and he's like, like you mean teeny bopper. hu And she says pussy willow and he says pussy cat, which I don't know i don't know that that's a correction.
00:23:45
Speaker
You make me feel like a regular pussy willow. If my aunt said that to me, I would jump out a window. I don't care if there was a closer door, i would make a point to jump out of a closed window.
00:23:58
Speaker
i would dissociate and say, okay. Yeah, but it's it's very weird that, like, instead of just being, like, like saying nice things to Aunt May, he's like, I must be at the wrong address, because who's this hot fucking babe here? Well, this era of Spider-Man, like, there's a lot of Peter...
00:24:22
Speaker
like talking to women in a way that like is meant to be showing that he... like In a way that's meant to be endearing, but in hindsight reads as like being a fucking weirdo. Yeah, because it's written by Stan Lee.
00:24:42
Speaker
yeah Yeah, because this is when he always called Gwen lady. like He never calls Gwen by name. He just calls her Lady.
00:24:52
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:55
Speaker
That's fucking weird, man. He also, as ah as listeners may know from your Blue Sky feed, he also calls himself PP. PP, yeah. yeah um And she calls him Mr. Parker.
00:25:10
Speaker
That's their relationship. I don't know, i don't know man. that that Now that you lay it out, that is kind of a hot dynamic. Mr. Parker ed lady and Lady. there's ah There's a panel, I'm skipping ahead a little bit, but there's a panel of Peter being so horny for Gwen in front of her dad, and him being fine with it.
00:25:34
Speaker
Yeah, but like there's... Peter Parker might be nasty.
00:25:43
Speaker
It's real hard to tell, but I think Peter Parker might be nasty. Okay, so there's a thing... like He goes to Gwen's house. He comes to the door. George Stacy's like, oh, Peter, we were expecting you because Harry Osborn called.
00:25:59
Speaker
And then Peter goes in and sits down.
Peter Parker's Awkward Social Dynamics
00:26:02
Speaker
Gwen comes out in her dress, which is like, like it is a va-va-voom looking outfit. Oh, no. it's It's like he says you look like a pinup.
00:26:13
Speaker
And she she does, in fact, look like a pinup. Like, she's wearing, like, a zebra-striped jacket and a red, like, mini-dress and, like, fishnets. Lovingly rendered fishnets.
00:26:31
Speaker
And, yeah, he goes, Gwendy. Oh, yeah okay, so he doesn't call her a lady there. He says, Gwendy. Gwendy, you look like a walking, centerfold pinup and in living color, too. And George Stacey no-sells this entirely.
00:26:45
Speaker
Isn't it, like, the fact that he calls her a walking centerfold pinup is basically like, he is him going, Quayne, you look like a fucking porn star right now. Yeah. And George Stacey's like, ha ha, have fun, kids.
00:26:59
Speaker
And he's like he's talking about Norman Osborn. He's like, hey, be sure to tell Norman that I'm happy he's back on his feet.
00:27:08
Speaker
Norman's definitely a nasty boy. There is one thing where George Stacey goes, georgegie judging by reaction to what I said, perhaps I'd better write him a letter. ah Because I guess Peter doesn't say anything, because his tongue has flopped out of his mouth.
00:27:24
Speaker
Yeah, and according to like his face is like Archie Horny, and his thoughtful thought bubble is, how can I subject this gorgeous creature to the Green Goblin?
00:27:36
Speaker
Yeah. um Right before that... i wish my girlfriend was uglier, so I wouldn't have to worry about her encountering the Green Goblin. Right before that, Peter's dream about getting kidnapped in front of Aunt May makes him jump out of bed, put on his Spider-Man outfit, and go out and try to hunt down the Green Goblin. But he doesn't find anybody. Yeah, he's like really bad at trying to find the Green Goblin.
00:28:06
Speaker
And that's when he gets then he finally gets it he gets a call from Harry um about like coming to a dinner party. So the reason Peter goes to Gwen's is so that he can take her to a dinner party with Harry and MJ and Norman.
00:28:23
Speaker
Just after that, as they're leaving, ah Peter's getting worried. And Gwen goes, why so glum, chum? Is it true you're only dating me because Raquel Welch stood you up?
00:28:34
Speaker
And Peter says, are you kidding? You're the greatest thing that ever happened to me, lady. I wouldn't trade your little finger or one of your smiles for all the... And then Gwen says, whoa, lad, better drop anchor while you can.
00:28:48
Speaker
That's just how cool people talk back then, man. That is that is how cool people talk. And then Peter says he desperately wants to marry Gwen. Yeah. ah When she mentions going to the going to the preacher.
00:29:01
Speaker
Yeah. They arrive at the Osborne household. ah ah Harry Osborne, huge fucking dork, is wearing a check suit and a bow tie. He's been wearing that the whole issue.
00:29:12
Speaker
Yeah. He's a huge fucking dork. yeah um MJ's got short hair this. Yes. yeah And I don't know that I've ever seen Mary Jane Watson with short hair. She is on model in every other way.
00:29:25
Speaker
But yeah, she's got this like short, wavy hair. i mean it looks like It looks good. It looks great, yeah. yeah i mean like like and She's a John Romita Sr. drawing of Mary Jane. You know what she looks like but like. The haircut is never mentioned. And I wonder if that's... I wonder if Romita knew this was going to be in color when he drew it.
00:29:50
Speaker
Or if he realized that, like, oh no, if Mary Jane has her regular Mary Jane hair, she just looks exactly like Gwen. In black and white. Because look at Gwen in that same panel. Except for the the little cleft in her chin. yeah And ah and Gwen has a hairband. But yeah, otherwise, pretty much the same. Yeah, but if you look at Gwen in that panel, that could be MJ.
00:30:16
Speaker
In black and white. Yeah, that this very may may well be a And attempt to differentiate the two of them. Very, very ah bad anime.
00:30:27
Speaker
him. So they start dinner. Norman immediately gets weird. Well, Norman gets weird before they even start, because like he shakes Peter's hand and he squeezes it with his goblin strength.
00:30:41
Speaker
Yeah, and he's like, oh, he knows I'm Spider-Man, because otherwise this would break my hand. Yeah. But... I think this is where you're like, oh, Sam Raimi must love this comic, because the dinner party here is very reminiscent of the Thanksgiving dinner in Spider-Man 2002.
00:31:01
Speaker
the And brackets, positive. Yeah. Yeah, no, this the scene kind of rules. So Peter realizes he's got... mean everybody Everybody's having dinner party,
00:31:14
Speaker
And they're having, like, you know, conversations. And and Norman's like, tell us about yourself, Peter. You know, you're my son's best friend, but I don't really know anything about you. And, like, MJ's like, oh, yeah, he's kind of a mystery man. And then Norman's like, we all have secrets which we hide from the world.
00:31:31
Speaker
Strange secrets known only to ourselves. yeah And and like again, i wouldn't jump out a window if my friend's dad if I was like eating with my friend's dad and he said that, but I would find the nearest exit. Well, Peter's like, um I gotta go to make a phone call. I gotta go call my aunt.
00:31:51
Speaker
yeah and How does this dude pull? Yeah. So he just goes to the other room and he just talks into a dead phone. Like, clearly he's listening to a dial tone.
00:32:03
Speaker
And then he like makes a ball of web and throws it into the fireplace. So it'll become a smoke bomb and it like smokes up the apartment and everybody leaves. But then Norman starts like throwing around furniture. Yeah. And be like, you're not going to get a go away from me, Peter. I'm going for your aunt now.
00:32:26
Speaker
So, like, Norman goes running out, the fire department shows up, and they're like, matt there's no real fire. There's not actually a fire. I've read a lot of Spider-Man comics.
00:32:37
Speaker
ah And I've read a lot of comics that, like, explain what's going on with Spider-Man. Yeah. Like, what's what's in his belt? What are his powers? Can he lift more than Thor? No. But he can lift Thor.
00:32:54
Speaker
Isn't, isn't his, aren't his webs fireproof?
00:33:01
Speaker
Huh, that is a good question.
00:33:05
Speaker
i mean, I guess that's the idea, right? Like, that's the way it's creating all that smoke? Well, no, the way it's creating all the smoke is that he, he ah wraps up a roll of film. Oh, that's right. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:33:19
Speaker
But he wraps it up in his webs. Aren't those webs fireproof? this is this is a This is a real, you know, comic book guy from The Simpsons. He says they're fireproof. He says they're fireproof in his in a thought balloon.
00:33:33
Speaker
Where? Like, right as he's throwing... With my fireproof webbing, I've made a perfect smoke bomb. So he just, like, wait an hour?
00:33:42
Speaker
Or is it, like, what's the mechanics here? I guess, like... i I don't really know. I don't really know. Like, I guess the the film would just burn up on its own if you just threw it into the fire on its own.
00:33:58
Speaker
And so the webbing is just kind of an insulation so that the the film just gets hot and smokes. Yeah, makes so it'll smolder. Okay, that actually makes sense.
00:34:09
Speaker
That actually makes sense. Okay. Thank you for answering that question. Okay. ah That is a total conjecture, though. I don't really know that that's true. So everybody leaves the dinner party, and luckily, Norman Osborn's nearest hideout, which also just has a Green Goblin costume hanging up on a hat rack, is only seconds away.
00:34:35
Speaker
ah that That one, we don't see as much of like what it actually is. We just kind of see Norman running in. um But yeah, he goes straight to Aunt May's house. And Peter catches up to him there.
00:34:48
Speaker
Then, so they start fighting outside Aunt May's house.
00:34:52
Speaker
On this goblin glider, Norman has just like a huge drill on the front. Where he's like, I got a new weapon.
00:35:04
Speaker
It's a drill that will like kill you. like It is just a big spinning pointy drill.
00:35:16
Speaker
Yeah, man. Brutal. He calls it his spiral skewer.
00:35:22
Speaker
um But then, just as he gets Spider-Man down for the count, he's like, I'm not actually going to use it. And then Spider-Man knocks him off of his glider. Then Norman throws what looks like a regular pumpkin bomb at Spider-Man. But what it really is, is he calls it his psychedelic pumpkin.
00:35:43
Speaker
Yeah, and ah here's a fun fact about ah young Peter Benjamin Parker. He does not know what the word psychedelic means. It is 1968. He's a square. He is a huge square. He's like, psychedelic? What the fuck?
00:35:56
Speaker
Why did he call it that?
00:36:00
Speaker
It looks like an ordinary jack-o'-lantern to me. Psychedelic? Question mark? Question mark? And ah so when he starts seeing a bunch of shit...
00:36:11
Speaker
When he starts seeing a bunch of shit, he's like, this can't be possible. What am I looking at?
00:36:19
Speaker
And he sees, you know, friends and enemies in front of him. He sees demons, which is fun.
00:36:29
Speaker
ah But then he he willpowers his way out of it and punches the goblin again. They fight for a little while longer, and then ultimately, Peter just like uses the psychedelic pumpkin on Norman.
00:36:45
Speaker
when it get when it When he starts to come out of it, first of all, there's this wild scene where he's like... where he's like And his hallucinations are like, you're weaponless, defenseless. And he goes, no, you lie. I've got my brain, my brain, the brain that tells me this cannot be the brain that gives me hope when there is no hope, the brain that will not let me panic. And I'm like, damn, must be nice, Peter.
00:37:12
Speaker
Yeah, must be nice to not not have a brain that makes you panic all the time. And that's that's what snaps him out of it. Yeah, and he goes, oh, that's why he called, he literally says, that's why he called the pumpkin psychedelic.
00:37:29
Speaker
Yeah. What did you think it was, man? Peter. Okay, real question. and What do you think is in there? Hallucinogenic gas.
00:37:43
Speaker
Like some kind of LSD gas? I mean, whatever it is, Peter gets out of it in like 30 seconds. Yeah. Like Peter has vivid, intense hallucinations for like 30 seconds.
00:37:56
Speaker
I did try mushrooms once, and I didn't get that. Could it be like MDMA gas? Although i don't think I don't think MDMA would like make you see like demons and shit, would it?
00:38:09
Speaker
I mean, I don't know, man. I am not โ here's what happened when I tried mushrooms. I saw colors very intensely for a couple hours. Okay.
00:38:20
Speaker
That's it. it It really seems to be pointing to like an LSD trip, but I don't think โ if there is LSD gas, I'm not aware of it.
00:38:33
Speaker
I mean, it's you know it's it's kind of a hallucination guess. It's certainly not what Harry Osborn did when he did the drug. It's definitely not that, yeah. Because that was essentially heroin, right? No, I think he did LSD.
00:38:46
Speaker
Did he? I'm pretty sure he did. Heroin was was speedy. That was speedy, yes. Yeah, Harry did LSD. Okay. Anyway, Peter uses the psychedelic pumpkin on Norman...
00:39:03
Speaker
yeah Which makes him also see demons. And he like shoves it up in his face. Yeah. And again, he's like sees a bunch of visions of the Green Goblin and Spider-Man, the two the two most horrific frightening names in the whole world to the point where he rips his costume off and once again forgets that he's the Goblin.
00:39:29
Speaker
Yeah, the ah the Osborn family has pretty bad luck with hallucinogens, it turns out. Yeah, as it turns out. If only Harry had talked to his dad about this.
00:39:40
Speaker
So Peter picks up Norman, takes him back to the hospital. He calls Aunt May on the phone, and and he tells Aunt May, like, oh it's okay, Aunt May, the danger's over.
00:39:52
Speaker
And Aunt May's like, what are you talking about? What are you talking about, Peter? What danger? It's okay, pretty lady.
00:40:04
Speaker
ah And he's like, oh, um what I meant to say is that Norman Osborn isn't in end danger in any danger. He's fine.
00:40:17
Speaker
Great cover, Peter. Yeah, I'm being normal.
00:40:21
Speaker
Then Harry and MJ and Gwen show up. And Harry says, we looked all over. This was our last try.
00:40:33
Speaker
why would be this be Why would the hospital be the last place you came, Harry?
00:40:41
Speaker
mean, you know. maybe Maybe this is the last hospital they've checked. Maybe. Maybe so. there' There's a lot of hospitals in in New York City. That's fair.
00:40:51
Speaker
um But ah Harry's like, next time, let a fella know. and this is when Peter's thought balloon is, okay, PP, think fast. And don't goof this time.
00:41:03
Speaker
What a panel. What a panel. And he comes up with some, you know, half-assed excuse. Harry goes to look after his dad.
00:41:17
Speaker
And then Peter walks out of there with two sexy ladies. Neither of which is Aunt May. Neither of which is Aunt May. Mary Jane's like, oh, Peter goes, I'll tell you my life story over a cup of java.
00:41:32
Speaker
And Mary Jane goes, throw in a glitzy sundae and I'll listen all night. So that's what they're into. is that Coffee and ice cream. Is that what a glizzy is? I don't think so.
00:41:44
Speaker
Okay. I don't think so. Okay. Anyway, that's the end. And then there's a ah there's a next issue teaser for a thing that never happened.
00:41:57
Speaker
The mystery of the TV terror. i really appreciate... how Peter's like, Norman Osborn knows my secret i identity, india and that means he can get to me at any time, he can get to Aunt May at any time, but I can't kill him.
00:42:10
Speaker
That would be wrong. So I'm gonna take this unknown hallucinogen, shove it in his face, and make him look at me, and also this green goblin mask, while he's tripping balls.
00:42:26
Speaker
And hope that permanently damages his brain. To be fair... Norman did it to him first. Norman threw like a gas bomb at him. Peter is is like is hotboxing this dude.
00:42:43
Speaker
He's got this thing up under his nose making him breathe it in.
Psychedelic Plot Devices in Spider-Man
00:42:49
Speaker
ah This is an interesting note I found on the Marvel database about the the third issue that never was Spectacular Spider-Man magazine.
00:43:01
Speaker
um This issue contains a full-page ad for next issue, The Mystery of the TV Terror. However, this title was canceled and the story was never published. The costume designed for that story's unnamed villain was repurposed a year later for The the Prowler.
00:43:16
Speaker
Oh. So it didn't entirely go to waste, I guess. That's a good suit. so Yeah, at least. I don't know how far along that issue got, but like at the very least it got to character design.
00:43:32
Speaker
And this was reprinted in Amazing Spider-Man Annual No. 9, five years later. Because I thought I had read this before, but there's stuff that I didn't recall. Which means that if I read it, it was 30 years ago, you know?
00:43:48
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, also, you know, this is almost 60 pages. Yeah. And also, it's it's a good chunk of Spider-Man 2002.
00:43:59
Speaker
At least one key scene of Spider-Man 2002, for sure. yeah hey You know what rocks? Tell me. Spider-Man 2002. Yeah, man. I was thinking the other day, like those in hindsight, those first two Raimi Spider-Man movies might be the best superhero movies. They're so good. Damn near perfect. Yeah, yeah because they like there is a there is a weird timelessness to them.
00:44:29
Speaker
where they do not feel dated by and large in the way that those X-Men movies feel extremely dated. Those X-Men movies feel very dated. Yeah. yeah And like I feel like even like the Andrew Garfield Spider-Man movies have not aged as well. even And they're also not as good correct as movies. um
00:44:51
Speaker
Oh yeah. Okay. So it was reprinted
00:44:57
Speaker
in total. In Amazing Spider-Man Annual No. 9. Okay. But all the pages got resized. Yeah. To comic size. Because it's it's not just like they scaled it up. Magazine pages are wider.
00:45:12
Speaker
Yes. ah So when if you get like the reprint of it, it's got like basically got like weird letterboxing, but only on the bottom.
00:45:24
Speaker
Or i in in this case, in the annual, it's just like... like The panels are different sizes. They zoom in? They pan and scan it? They pretty much do, yeah. It's pretty much pan and scan. Also, like some stuff is cut out. it's ah It's not as long.
00:45:41
Speaker
Did they cut out the part where a ah Spider-Man forces Norman Osborn to do drugs? No, that is a key element of the story, and so it remains. That key element the story. Now dream, do you hear me? Dream as you never did before, as you never will again. Peter, what are you talking about?
00:46:00
Speaker
A lot of the recap is gone, actually. That makes sense. Yeah. This is interesting. It's interesting that, like, how much work clearly had to be done to reprint this as a comic book instead of a magazine.
00:46:17
Speaker
Well, Matt, ah look, I will say this. It's good. Yeah, it's good. did not ah Did not have a bad time reading it at all. I mean, i don't think it's like Deathly Gwynn Stacy good.
00:46:29
Speaker
It's not Deathly Gwynn Stacy good, and it's not, I would say, like I said, I could not help but compare them because they're both kind of artist showcases. It's not as good as Amazing Spider-Man Annual No.
00:46:39
Speaker
1. Yeah, okay, let's see. Where is Amazing Spider-Man Annual number one on the list? It's pretty high, right? ah Yeah, man, it's number 50. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, this ain't that good.
00:46:54
Speaker
ah Where is Death of Gwen Stacy on the list?
00:47:01
Speaker
It is not on the list. we not Have we seriously not done The Night Gwen Stacy Died? Oh, we may have we may have called it that instead of The Death of Gwen Stacy. Yeah.
00:47:14
Speaker
Yes, yes, yes. It is called The Night When Stacy Died, and it was it's at 178.
00:47:20
Speaker
ah Not as good as either of those. I'm looking at different Spider-Man stories we've got here. ah Is it... Like... is It's probably better than... Well,
00:47:36
Speaker
actually, is it better than Amazing Spider-Man 900? Because that's a pretty good comic. I would say Amazing Spider-Man 900 equally good, maybe? like Maybe better.
00:47:49
Speaker
i think Amazing Spider-Man 900 might be better. I like that book a lot. and and Comparable, though, because another large-sized artist showcase issue. Yeah, the Spider-Man story that we have ah closest above that is My Dinner with Jonah, the Chipsodarsky comic, and I think that's an incredible one.
00:48:11
Speaker
That one's really good, yeah.
00:48:15
Speaker
Let's see. i mean, we have Superior Foes of Spider-Man at number 327. i think that's better.
00:48:25
Speaker
ah Spidey in the Subway 334. I think it's probably not as good as Spidey in the Subway, because that's like but i mean that's a beautiful comic drawn by Marcus Martin. Marcus Martine.
00:48:36
Speaker
yeah But it is also like... The whole thing in that story is the Spider-Man lifts a heavy thing again. Mm-hmm.
00:48:48
Speaker
So i would I would have a hard time saying that like this comic where... I mean, I guess the death of Gwen Stacy is Green Goblin gets his memory back again if we're going to go by by that kind of... Sure, but like it it is more consequential.
00:49:11
Speaker
And better. yeah
00:49:15
Speaker
i think Spidey in the Subway is better than this.
00:49:23
Speaker
Really? that's Yeah, I think it's better. Do you think it's better than the ah ah Peter and Ben going to the Mets game? No. Do you think it is better than the Legion of Losers? I know you don't.
00:49:39
Speaker
i I could call it better than The Legion of Losers. Even though I love The Legion of Losers. I mean, right above that we have JLA number 5, which is about Tomorrow Woman.
00:49:49
Speaker
And that's a good comic. Yeah. But I don't... It's hard to say if that's better than this. Because this is because again, this is very good.
00:50:00
Speaker
It's very good. The art is like... Like, blow you away fantastic, I feel like. Yeah. Some of John Romita Sr.'s best work, I feel like. I think maybe we could put it right either... Let's put it right below Earth 2.
00:50:19
Speaker
Okay, that would make it a new number 370, which i'm I'm good with. yeah Which is, again, a very high-ranking comic.
00:50:29
Speaker
Spectacular Spider-Man Magazine number 2.
00:50:33
Speaker
What is the title of this issue? The Goblin Lives. The Goblin Lives, okay. ah Do you want to do a bonus rateing ranking of issue one? No. No. Okay, great.
00:50:47
Speaker
All right, that'll do it then for this comics catch up.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:50:51
Speaker
Thank you to, I forget who sent this in, in a list, but ah thank you to whoever sent it because maybe I had read this story before at some point.
00:51:03
Speaker
But I did not remember having read it. i certainly didn't remember the details. Yeah. I didn't remember about PP, don't blow it. PP, don't blow it.
00:51:16
Speaker
ah So, yeah, thank you to whoever sent that in. And you.
00:51:22
Speaker
Thanks for listening, everybody. If you would like to send a suggestion for a future comics catch-up, you can do it at our email address, which is warrocketpodcast at gmail.com. That is also where you can send other stuff, like Every Story Ever lists, listener questions, and you can let us know if you want to sponsor the show at our email address.
00:51:43
Speaker
You can also contact us on Tumblr, warrocketpodcast.tumblr.com. You can contact us on Blue Sky. We're warrocketajax.com on Blue Sky. You can join our Discord, which you have to be invited to be a member of, but ask us nicely for an invitation and we'll get you one to our Discord. And also, you can contact us on our Patreon, patreon.com slash warrocketajax.com.
00:52:03
Speaker
please go there and kick in as little as a dollar a month to support these monthly comics catch-up specials, as well as every story ever and our weekly War Rocket Ajax show.
00:52:17
Speaker
WarRocketAjax.com is our website. It has every episode of the show. WarRocketWiki.com is where you can go to find out all you need to know. All the good stuff about this show, WarRocket HX. If you want to find me and my stuff, go to MattDWilson.net. That's where you can find links to all my stuff. Chris, where can people find you?
00:52:34
Speaker
Everybody can find me by going to The-ISB.com. That is my website. And it has links to the things that I do. And how you can pay me to do them for you.
00:52:49
Speaker
Bye, everybody.
00:52:52
Speaker
We'll be back next month. Maybe with Ronan, if we feel like reading it.
00:52:59
Speaker
i You know what? I did get contacted by a friend of the show, Kevin Maroney, who said it is his favorite Frank Miller comic. Okay. Then maybe we'll read Ronan next month. Maybe it's finally time to to crack that one open and see for ourselves.
00:53:15
Speaker
Until then, everybody, good catching up.