Every Story Ever: April 2026

Transcript

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Speaker: Glad to start.

Speaker: We have a list on our website, warrocketajax.com, called Every Story Ever. What we're doing is we're taking lists from our listeners of three comic book stories, and then we are placing those stories on the list from best to worst comic book stories of all time.

Speaker: Hello, everybody, and welcome to the War Rocket Ajax Every Story Ever special. For April 2026, my name is Matt Wilson.

Speaker: With me is Chris Sims, as always. As always, Matt. That's right. You know what we do on this show, probably, because I said it in the intro.

Speaker: be Me from several years ago said it in the intro. Hey man, it's like Jim Shooter says. Any... Every Story Ever special could be someone's first podcast ever. That's true. um So if you don't know, what we do is we rank comic book stories on a list from best to worst.

Speaker: Chris, would you like to discuss the state of that list? Sure, Matt. I can. We have 1,704 comics on the list.

Speaker: This list that has been going for well over 10 years. And that is considering that we removed probably 30 entries at one point. Yeah, that sounds about right. That sounds about right.

Speaker: We removed a number of entries by a particular creator that we don't have to say who it is. But none of his work will ever appear on the list ever again.

Speaker: So at the center point of the list, that would be 852. And here's what's interesting. and here's what's interesting It's the same center point that we had last time, which means we added an equal number on either side of of the the center point.

Speaker: Which I hope that stays the same. It's Adventures of Superman, Only Child, and Tintin the Blue Lotus. Great. Great. Perfect. ah you The bottom of the list...

Speaker: Considering what Jim Shooter said, ah the bottom of the list is Identity Crisis, a terrible comic. And with the the reason I'm not going to read that Spider-Man Superman book, and you can't make me.

Speaker: And top of the list, Spider-Man, If This Be My Destiny, the final chapter where Spider-Man does the thing. i

Speaker: don't. i have I have nothing. against Brad Meltzer as a person. I've never met him. i i have I have heard he's nice.

Speaker: I have heard that. um But I don't know why you would let him write comics again. Ever. Seems baffling, right? Like, seems like... Well, I mean, Identity Crisis was financially very successful. Yeah, but I'm like...

Speaker: In the 21 years since Identity Crisis has came out, and and we should say, that's been the bottom of the list since day one, and it has had some serious competitors. That's true, yeah. That's very true.

Speaker: Like, I can only think of one piece of media that I think is worse. I'm not going to say what it is. Fair. But, ah well, I mean, there's probably a lot of media that's worse. Like, there's, you know...

Speaker: you There's probably a lot of media that's worse out there, actually. but in terms hard appearances More harmful. More harmful, yeah. yeah ah I just can't i can't imagine... Surely in the past 21 years, opinions have to have changed, right? I and i know DC did a 20th anniversary hardcover last year.

Speaker: But surely like there there has to have been... I can't even imagine there being a critical reevaluation because I hated it at the time. i I genuinely don't know. I know that there are still people who say it's really good.

Speaker: Yeah. like Like Mr. Codarius Rodarius. And i don't I don't know. I don't know what to do with that. I don't know what to make of that. I don't know how to live with that.

Speaker: But I have to. Yeah, man. Cody Rhodes, man. I...

Speaker: He's been suspect ever since that shit he said about Benjamin Sisko. You know what? True. Very true. Yeah, man.

Speaker: All right, let's get into our first list. And this will lead into an announcement that I have. ah People who don't listen to the regular Ajax show may not be aware of this.

Speaker: Although I think this was maybe discussed on Comics Catch-Up even. But we'll get to it when we get to it. This is a list from Jolene.

Speaker: The first is Starman, the Will Payton Starman. Numbers 36 through 37, Sophisticated Ladies. Jolene.

Speaker: Jolene. Jolene. Buddy, you know haven't the Will Payton Starman. the wi nobody read the will wait and star man

Speaker: Tom Lyle's Starman? This isn't even by Tom Lyle. This is by ah Lynn Strzezewski.

Speaker: And Dave Hoover. And this is, what number is numbers 30? 36 and 37. 36 and 37? So Catwoman's in it, right? i I don't know. and I'm looking at the cover now, and it's Phantom Lady, and ah i't that might be Mongal? Who is that?

Speaker: this is some This is some late 80s DC stuff that even i am flummoxed

Speaker: i i don't I don't know. i've never I've sure never read this. Yeah. Oh, it's Rampage. It's Rampage. Remember Rampage? Only vaguely. Will Payton does get crucified in this issue.

Speaker: Which is kind of whack.

Speaker: That is ah somewhat whack. Although, i you know, this was a time when a lot of comics characters were getting crucified. People were getting crucified. I remember reading, like, somebody did like a study about the number of times that comics use crucifixion imagery. They found out that it rarely happens with Superman, but it very often happens with Batman.

Speaker: And Wolverine, famously. Wolverine, that's on a St. Andrew's cross. That's different.

Speaker: Totally different It's different. Yeah. Hotter. Yeah. Man, and I gotta say, these, I'm just seeing the pages and, and like my eyes gliding over dialogue.

Speaker: This is either the worst comic ever printed or it is hilariously funny. I mean, it's probably not the worst comic ever printed, but I, I, I don't know. I don't know if it's good.

Speaker: the My immediate thought was this is like some superior stratagem stuff, but I don't really think it's that. No, I mean, willll Will Payton, I don't think it's crucified and then and then turned into a lady.

Speaker: This is about Will Payton being up against a robot named Computron, Colonel Computron. Yeah, but it's not really. it's a There's a lady in there.

Speaker: There's a lady in the Computron suit? There's a lady in the Computron suit. um And then she gets her... ah ah It's a teenage girl.

Speaker: And she gets her head knocked off. And then she cries and she literally goes, wah. You ruined everything. Wah. I was going to be rich. That's what she says.

Speaker: Man, the name the letter column for Will Payton's Starman was Bright Ideas.

Speaker: You're asking for it, Will Payton Starman. Anyway, okay I have not read this, Jolene. I'm sorry. You're going to really have to work to get us to do that for catch-up, too, I'm afraid to say. Yeah, we're we're not sitting down and reading 40 issues of Will Payton Starman.

Speaker: Okay. So be it. Next on Jolene's list is Batman number 141. This from 1961. Okay.

Speaker: Batwoman's Junior Partner. Is this the first appearance of Betty Kane? Maybe. maybe ah right now This one I'm much more likely to have read.

Speaker: ah think I have read this one, actually. like Looking at it now, Batman fights the Clockmaster in this. in In the issue, not in this actual...

Speaker: Not in this actual ah story. Yeah. because this is there There are three... This is you know this was the time. This is technically the Silver Age, but it's it's very... still kind of golden age-y in presentation.

Speaker: Yeah, I mean, this is... this is well

Speaker: Yeah, I guess 61 is Silver Age. it's pre It's before the new look Batman. It's before the new look Batman, yes. Yeah, so this is this is ah this feels like Earth 2 to me.

Speaker: It feels like some 50s dick-spraying Batman stuff. Yeah, Batman got a rectangle head in this. he He got a real rectangle head. He got a real rectangle head, man.

Speaker: Yeah. ah and Every opening splash page has a Bob Kane signature on it, um hilariously. A lie. ah It has a lie on every ah every one of these stories opens with a lie told to you. The one in this story, that doesn't even look like Bob Kane's signature.

Speaker: Yeah. ah the So the first one is a Clockmaster story, and then there's a story called The Race of Death, where like there's some kind of like river. There's a canoeing race, and Batman has to like save...

Speaker: like people, but they're cheating. So they're trying to punch him. Um, and then, uh, the, the final story is Batwoman's junior partner. Um, with the introduction of Batgirl, but not, uh, not, not that one.

Speaker: Not Barbara Gordon. Not Barbara Gordon. Well, this might not be the first appearance of, of Betty Kane. Cause they, ah like the They say Batgirl's back in town.

Speaker: Interesting. Although it is called Batwoman's junior partner as though she's being introduced. ah No, she had appeared two issues prior to this. okay oh So this is just a story where she comes back and oh ah like is really flirting with Robin.

Speaker: I mean, kisses him on the cheek. Kisses him on the cheek. Yeah. Like, they they they beat they Moth. I guess this is before he became Killer Moth. ah I don't even know if that's the same guy. it There might be a Moth and a Killer Moth.

Speaker: It's got one head to inspire the other, right? they Seemingly. kill it maybe maybe they Maybe that is the same guy, because i I doubt they could have called him Killer Moth under the comic code.

Speaker: Right? who can say. But anyway, that they're at a chemical plant, like of ah virtually all of the Batman stories from this era were.

Speaker: And ah it they like team up to beat Moth. And and there's ah there's a panel in this where Batgirl is like holding Moth by one arm and like pile-driving him. This is some like wild variation of a pile-driver. Are you telling me that that Betty Kane hit the one-winged angel?

Speaker: It's not even that. like She's like on her two feet, and Moth is fully upside down, and she's driving him to the to the ground. Oh yeah, this is this is meant to be a like a judo throw, like an over-the-shoulder throw, but it does look like she is simply like like, gosh-style powerbombing him. Yeah, it really does. ah yeah Yeah, now that you say it, it does look like a judo throw, but... ah but i actually don't know that I've read this before, because I've read the first appearance.

Speaker: Well, there's there's on this story is short enough that I think we can just kind of, like, go over it and rate it. ah Let's see. Batgirl...

Speaker: that girl ah there's a conversation between Batman and Batwoman where Batman's like, your niece Betty is back and she's Batgirl. Batwoman's like, yes, she is.

Speaker: She's been anxious to prove that she can be a good junior partner. And then there's all this press who are like astonished that Batgirl has taken down Moth. And they say, how about some shots of Batgirl alone? She's hot news now.

Speaker: And then she's worried that Robin is becoming jealous of her. Yeah. ah But then Moth breaks out of prison, and so they're like, oh, Moth's gonna kill her.

Speaker: yeah Moth is going to fully kill her.

Speaker: so ah they So they're like, hey, Betty, maybe you should stop being... bad girl for a minute.

Speaker: ah And ah that's when Betty's like, Robin, you're jealous of me. How could you?

Speaker: and And Robin has to like play it cool. and So he's got a thought balloon that's, gosh, if I could only tell her the truth. Yeah, because the the whole idea here, the convoluted reason they can't tell her is that like if she finds out he broke out of prison and wants to murder her, she'll want to go capture him.

Speaker: Which, if you know that, don't know, man. Maybe tell her. And then be like, hey, though, don't. I'm Batman.

Speaker: ah So i can I can manage one... Like, I can manage keeping you safe for the next week. So Batman looks through the personal effects of the gang members and learns through their, like...

Speaker: ah badges that they're going to do some kind of heist at the science exposition. yeah Meanwhile, there's a Robin and Batgirl fan club dance.

Speaker: Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Uh... So Batman and Batwoman try to go defeat Moth, and they get like gassed and tied to like a big trap. I guess like maybe I was wrong about like Batman's capabilities. in those he could like They go down easy. They show up.

Speaker: And immediately gas, and they're out. They are out. ah So Robin goes to save them. He punches out Moth.

Speaker: Yeah, and and he doesn't tell Betty. And then Betty's like, I'm motherfuckers going to capture the Moth. And he didn't tell me cause he's fucking jealous. Yeah, so she shows up on her own.

Speaker: And so Robin's like, oh no, I have to save her. And he knocks one of the henchmen into like... of ah lever that turns on the mechanism that Batman and Batwoman are tied to. and which is Which is like a big planetarium.

Speaker: yeah It's a lot like ah ah the the Nostromo episode of Batman the Animus series. Which, apparently people don't like that episode, and it was always one of my favorites.

Speaker: I thought it was one of the lesser episodes of the show. fivephon one Why, though? It's good. it's It's not as good as the other episodes to me. um Anyway... don't know, Batman gets tied... People get tied up to a big old fucking planetarium that shit owns.

Speaker: Yeah. So everything starts moving. Batman and Batwoman free themselves. And Killer Moth starts taking shots at Batman. ah But then Batman punches him off of like a moving planet.

Speaker: And ah ah the gang is defeated once again. And they explain to Batgirl that they were just trying to keep her out of danger. And so Batgirl says, oh, Robin, now I know you really care for me, and kisses him on the lips.

Speaker: And then Batwoman says, hmm, perhaps Batgirl's direct approach is the best way to for a gal to get her guy. Come here, Batman. And then she kisses Batman on the cheek. And Robin and Batgirl laugh.

Speaker: The end. um I think it's kind of whack that, like, the moth, like, has this whole elaborate death trap where he's got Batman Batwoman tied up to fucking Sputnik or whatever. Right, yeah.

Speaker: Planetarium. But then also he has a gun. And so he just like pulls out a gun and starts shooting at him while Batman's like jumping on this giant globe. It's like, come on, man.

Speaker: like are you going to do Are you going to do the big set piece, Death Trap? Or are you going to shoot him? Because I feel like doing both is weird.

Speaker: Yeah. don't know, man. I don't like it. I'm not down with it. And if you're not down with that. This story is

Speaker: fine. Yeah, it seems fine. It seems fine. like

Speaker: Like, it's so weird because it's a whole thing is like of like Batman and Batwoman being weirdly like paternalistic. Like, don't let her be Batgirl then, if you don't want her to get so to like fight criminals. you know like Fight supervillains. That's what's going to happen. That's your job when you're in the Robin family.

Speaker: And then for her to be like, Robin, you're fucking jealous. And Robin would not be like, no. No, that's actually not what's going on. like it's very It's very kind of Silver Age-y in the...

Speaker: like We have to come up with a convoluted reason for there to be weird interpersonal conflict. Because there is no actual danger to the characters.

Speaker: Okay, I did some research just now. Moth and Killer Moth are different guys. And Killer Moth appears first. Killer Moth appears really early. Yeah, Killer Moth is from like nine years before this. Ten years before this.

Speaker: Moth, this is Moth's only appearance. Man, I wonder if we can retcon this to being in Killer Moth. It seems like it should be. Yeah, because he's dressed like the monarch.

Speaker: He is, that's true. He's got butterfly wings.

Speaker: I mean, I guess those are Moth wings of a type, but... Yeah, but like... it He looks like, Matty looks like a but butterfly.

Speaker: Yeah. he he he He has one appearance. it's been And here's what's weird is he's not wearing pants. So he's got these really kicky knee-high boots.

Speaker: ah He sure does. he Then bare thighs and then just like a like a singlet with horizontal stripes. Not a great look. And then butterfly wings. And a big big hat that makes him look like a plague doctor.

Speaker: There's no one we can ask about this, and it's going to drive me nuts. Was this intended to be Killer Moth? And they just like... like some some some Some lines got crossed or something?

Speaker: Like, what happened here? Because Killer Moth looks entirely different. Yeah, no, Killer Moth has like a better much better suit He's got like fruit stripe pants in his ah first appearance. Better color scheme too. This moth is all yellow and green.

Speaker: Yellow and green, yeah. Killer Moth's got that nice purple. in In later appearances, early early appearances, he's wearing like all kinds of colors.

Speaker: He's moth, man. Yeah. I think your question of was this intentionally meant to be like is this intentionally a different guy or is this meant to be killer moth? I think you are putting more thought into it than ah the, the creators of this, the, the third story in this issue of Batman, although it is the cover story.

Speaker: I mean, it's, but Bill Finger, like Bill Finger had created killer moth. And then, oh I mean, I guess there's, there's enough about comics creators from this era where it's like,

Speaker: Oh, i forgot I forgot that I had another guy named something Moth. And so I looked in my notebook, it said Moth. So I was like, okay, I guess Moth is the is the new bad guy. i mean, Bill Finger did have his gimmick book.

Speaker: He sure did. He sure did have his gimmick book. ah And this is Bill Finger and Sheldon Moldoff. Yeah. I don't know, man. i I feel like they kind of phoned this one in. This is not among Bill Finger's best work.

Speaker: It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Yeah.

Speaker: I'll tell you this, though. Not a fan of Betty Kane. Not a fan of Betty Kane. Not a fan of Kathy Kane. Honestly. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, like there're again, they're fine.

Speaker: But like I love Barbara Gorton. Sure. yeah like I think Kathy Kane has become more interesting in modern comics.

Speaker: Well, Kate Kane has. Kate Kane, for sure, yeah. Yeah. But Kathy Kane has appeared in... I mean, Kathy Kane was all over the Morrison run on Batman. Yeah. Yeah. she was She was in Spiral.

Speaker: She sure was. Yeah. But, like, i have I have described, like, Barbara Gordon as, like, my second favorite character in Batman.

Speaker: Yeah. It's like Batman and then Batgirl. Yeah. Or Barbara Gordon, Oracle. like I'm a big Oracle fan as well. like So I don't know if that's just my you know You're aware, Matt, I have the tendency to fall into some binary thinking.

Speaker: um But like...

Speaker: Betty Kane... Betty Kane has always struck me as like a copy of a copy. Because she's Batwoman's Robin.

Speaker: Like, she should be Robin, girl. Yeah, because Robin's not Batboy. Yeah. but But nonetheless.

Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I feel like it's... don't know, man. I'm not a big fan. She should be like... I mean, she should not be this.

Speaker: But it's the first name that came to mind. Chickadee. That's a pretty bad bat. It's a pretty bad, yeah. what's What do you call what do you call ah ah a baby bat?

Speaker: What do you call a baby bat? I don't even know. Let's see. what What do you call a baby bat? A pup. A pup.

Speaker: Well, you could call her pup. Yeah, probably couldn't call her pup.

Speaker: I don't know Much to think about. Anyway, let's break this story. Yeah, man. It's fine. it's It's weird that... Okay, so at this point in time, Kathy Kane doesn't know Batman's secret identity, right?

Speaker: Right. So it's really weird to see Robin and Betty Kane hanging out. But, like, Batman is, like, your niece. No, Batman knows their identity.

Speaker: Yeah. They don't know Batman's. So when Robin goes to visit Betty... he's right He's Robin, not Dick Grayson, but she's like in her like street clothes. In her civilian clothes, yeah. yeah she's she's She's out of gimmick.

Speaker: Right, yeah. um Okay, I'm going to say this is probably like in the 1100s somewhere. ah like At 1110, we have Blood is the Harvest by Clint McElroy.

Speaker: It's probably better than that. Okay. I mean, like that, blood is the harvest with Blood is the Harvest had that weird recurring thing that reminds me of an Omwot bit.

Speaker: Like, you know the bit in Omwot where he's like, let's just say i cut his head off? yeah Like, there's a bit, I can't remember exactly what it is, but i do remember there being a bit in Blood is the Harvest like that.

Speaker: i Yes, I remember that too. well At 1100, we have Silver Star. the The Jack Kirby Pacific Comics book, Silver Star.

Speaker: a a A lesser Jack Kirby work, for sure. is this as good as that? I think this is actually probably a little bit better. Okay.

Speaker: um I think it's probably better than Defenders Volume 3, which is the Giffen to Mattias McGuire Defenders. Actually, it might not be. It might not be better than that. Alright, 1098 is Superman and Batman Adventures World's Finest. I don't think this is as good as that.

Speaker: Yeah, it's probably not as good as Tyrannosaurus and F-14s either. Alright, so it's the new number 1100 even. Do you think Jolene is specifically trying to get comics we haven't read?

Speaker: I don't know. i i' i feel like that, I feel like no. I feel like that's not probably what Jolene's trying to do, but i I do think sometimes submissions gun for getting us to do a comics catch-up. But I don't think that's what that was.

Speaker: So bat and um Batman number 141, Batman's junior partner,

Speaker: is at the new number new number 1100. Okay, finally on Jolene's list is a comic that we haven't read, but...

Speaker: It does lead me into the announcement I want to make. the count will making news There's There is, friends, you have an opportunity. You have an opportunity. This is Catwoman Volume 2, numbers 51 to 52, Huntress Team-Up. We haven't read it.

Speaker: Haven't read it. We haven't read it. But, but, here's what i will tell you.

Speaker: Chris... In his great generosity, has offered In my great generosity and desperation, because I have been unemployed for four months.

Speaker: Yeah. Has offered to read the entire Jim Ballant run on Catwoman. 77 issues plus annuals and specials.

Speaker: That's right. So that is almost, not and not the entirety of Catwoman Volume 2, but a lot of Catwoman Volume 2. Yeah. um if If, oh, and he will tell me about each arc in a special Patreon-exclusive show called a Talent Show.

Speaker: If we reach 500 paid Patreon subscribers. As of this recording, we are at 432.

Speaker: That's close enough. So, 68 more people. ah like yeah Literally, you could join at the $1 per month level.

Speaker: We're not specifying how much you have to donate per month. No, we just need paid backers, but you will only get it if you're a $5 backer or above. Right. You will only get the show if you're a $5 backer or above. We'll have to discuss whether...

Speaker: the stuff you read, we put on the Every Story Ever list or not, but ah we'll we'll discuss that at a later date. Yeah, we are 68 people away from having to figure out the mechanics.

Speaker: yeah But I will tell you this, that's the only way I'm reading that run.

Speaker: like we there're I might have decided on a whim to read it for fun at some point, but now that I that i have put this out there, I'm not reading those comics unless we are at that level.

Speaker: Yes. So we currently have 611 total Patreon subscribers, which means we have roughly um ah hundred and eighty a hundred and seventy eight ah free Patreon subscribers, there's nothing at the free level.

Speaker: But if you go from free to a dollar and bump up that number to 500, help bump up that number to 500, then Chris will read those Catwoman comics. I cannot commit to that because I have a day job.

Speaker: but No, but you can commit to me telling you about it. I can commit to Chris telling me about it. Yeah, because there will be no edits to that show. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker: i have thought, um do you how much of a song can you like listen to on Spotify before the person gets any money? Yeah. before the person gets any money

Speaker: I don't know. i i i I genuinely don't know. Here's why. It's because I don't want to give Ted Nugent any money. Uh-huh. But I do like the opening to Stranglehold a lot.

Speaker: And I was thinking that we could also do the opening to Cass Cratch Fever. I mean, that a talent show that it is an appropriate an appropriate tune. An appropriate tune.

Speaker: but we got We've got time. We've got time to figure all that out. But it is going to be Patreon exclusive for 500 backers.

Speaker: Yep. Yep. So, something to think about. A Batman family book that I have never read. All right. ah Jolene has two backups for us. I think the first one is a reach for a comics catch-up. It is Galaxy the Prettiest Star by Jadzia Axelrod. Oh.

Speaker: Yeah, that's something we catch up on. ah Yeah, I mean, i have not read it, but not because I don't want to. i just have it. Now, we won't be able to do that ah next month because it's going to be Macek.

Speaker: It's going to be Mace. Which is where we read the mask. Right. And then we committed to do Ronin, Frank Miller's Ronin, in June. Masterless Samurai.

Speaker: That's right. Masterless Samurai. But perhaps Galaxy the Prettiest Star could be ah in July. um it is It is just... ah I don't think that came out in issues. I think that came out as an original graphic novel. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah. ah I would read that. ah So put it the list. Also, said about Josiah Axelrod, we have at least one thing we really like in common.

Speaker: ah Finally on Jolene's list is Catwoman, Her Sister's Keeper, ah which was a miniseries in in the late eight late eighty s I never read it. I never read it.

Speaker: that's about that That's about Maggie? It's about Maggie, yeah. yeah Yeah. I ah did also did not read that. It's like extremely um post-Crisis Catwoman. That's not the that's not the the Mindy Newell book, is it? It it is the Mindy Newell book. Oh, okay. that's the That's the title, which was Catwoman Volume 1. I think it got collected in trade paperback as her sister's keeper. yeah um But it that in single issues, I believe it was just called Catwoman.

Speaker: Yeah, but that was Catwoman Volume 1.

Speaker: I have not read that. Okay. It is very...

Speaker: it is very late eight. It's very post-year one. like There are pages from year one reproduced in ah this Catwoman book. yeah yeah oh But I never read it. because like i Remember, I got an issue of it when I was a kid.

Speaker: oh like Probably when it came out, which was 89. So I was like seven. was Six or seven years old. um And something in it was very late something in it was very like late eighty s DC Comics aren't just for kids anymore, and like freaked me out. And I was like, no thanks.

Speaker: Yeah, yeah. suggest it it was It had suggested for mature readers on the cover. ah so I was not a mature reader. I was an advanced reader. I think we ah like those of us who were who were growing up reading reading ah comics in the late 80s, early 90s, I think we all had one of those moments.

Speaker: If not multiple of those moments. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, I remember reading an Infinity Incorporated comic. Oh,

Speaker: Did Roy get you? Yeah, there was some shit in that that freaked me right out. Yeah. ah Was that Comico?

Speaker: think that was Comico. Infinity Inc. is DC, man. Oh, that it wasn't Infinity Inc. It was something else. Fuck. Yeah. It was like... ah shit. i'll have to think I'll have to remember what that was ah in a bit. But nonetheless, ah Jolene, thank you for that list.

Speaker: ah Go to our Patreon, patreon.com slash warrocketajax, and make talent show happen.

Speaker: we get the If we get to 550, I'll throw in the Mindy Newell series. Hey! Quite a deal. Quite a deal.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Next, we have a list from Sam Rutzik. And this, the theme of this list is insert prompt pronoun, The Vampire Slayer. Alright.

Speaker: First is Generation X number 62.

Speaker: I never read a lot of Generation I know that like, look. and i I know that I put but Monet and and Chamber and all them into X-Men 92.

Speaker: I know I did that.

Speaker: But Chad's read those. the Was this number 42? 62. On the cover it says, monet Vampire Slayer. God, that sounds good though.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Jay Farber. Jay Faber is one that ah can be a bit of a hit or miss. Agreed. Agreed. But I do like Monet St. Croix.

Speaker: And she sure is fighting vampires in this.

Speaker: No getting around it. No getting around it. Yeah.

Speaker: Uh. But I don't think either of us has read this. I like those big old boots and gloves they used to wear in Generation X around this time. a lot of people in in the Marvel Universe wore big old boots and gloves in this era.

Speaker: This was what, late 90s? ah This, I think, is early 2000s. Oh, okay. Yeah, this is this is cover dated April 2000.

Speaker: Definitely some big old boots and gloves there, yeah. Yeah. Alright, next is Dazzler number one from 2010. Yeah, um yeah also also did not read dazzler the Dazzler one-shot from 2010, which was ah apparently a tie-in to Necrotia.

Speaker: Written by Jim McCann. But yeah, I guess this is also Dazzler versus Vampires.

Speaker: Looks like there's a lot going on in this comic. Claws in it. Doctor Doom's in it, but I think it maybe is a robot. oh Multiple Dazzlers are involved.

Speaker: It looks like a lot. yeah It looks like a lot. man ah Finally is Spitfire number one, also from 2010. Now that I do know about because ah Spitfire showed back up in ah ah ah union Union Jack and was a vampire.

Speaker: And, as we all know, Union Jack fights vampires. that's what you That's what you do when you're a British superhero, apparently. You fight vampires, yeah. Imagine if Captain America's whole deal was he just fought werewolves.

Speaker: It's like, here's a guy dressed in the flag of a nation. what does he do? Oh, he pretty much exclusively fights vampires. He fights monsters. Yeah. ah This has got Blade in it.

Speaker: But yeah, I like Spitfire, because Spitfire, of course, was a ah an invader. She was a World War II era superhero who got old, but then got turned into a vampire and got young again, and still had superpowers, but was also a vampire.

Speaker: ah Yeah, this is this one this is another one-shot. It was not a long series. It was just ah just a one-shot by Paul Cornell and yeah ah Elena Casagrande.

Speaker: ah i really ah Paul Cornell, man. Paul Cornell, I don't know if ever got the props for the props in this era that he should have.

Speaker: Because he did some really good stuff. He did. He did. But yeah, this is a ah this is a Spitfire and Blade team up. Where they just like... Like it ends with Spitfire and Blade making out. And it's like, hell yeah.

Speaker: Let's fucking decapitate some vampires. Which is what Spitfire does. she in mid-sentence... oh cuts off this evil vampire's head and then goes, I'll say you came out with something witty.

Speaker: Which is pretty good. Pretty good. Pretty good. And then she goes and makes out a blade. And then the last line is the last line is, come on, let's see if we can find some real beer. Hell yeah.

Speaker: I guess they they they did enjoy the beer they had earlier. they They need some of that warm beer. Yeah.

Speaker: ah Alright, do you think we can rank this? It's...

Speaker: It's not... It's not Cornell's best work. And I cannot bring any Elena Casagrande's... Any of Elena Casagrande's other stuff to mine. But I can't imagine it is her best work either.

Speaker: um And it's it's in the... It is very much a... I have a...

Speaker: It's very much a... Hey, we haven't done a Spitfire thing in a while. Like, Spitfire doesn't even really get, like, a logo in the comic. like Like, clearly during in the lettering process.

Speaker: Like, that's a font.

Speaker: That's just a font. Right. ah it's It's fine. mean, a lot of comics that are just kind of, like, fine...

Speaker: You know? Alright, well where does this where does this comic that's fine go? It's, again, it's not bad and it is in fact like pretty good. It's a fun read.

Speaker: I do not have i I can't imagine having a reason to revisit this ever. You know? It's one of those. Where it's like, yeah, that was good.

Speaker: Fair enough, yeah. Uh, I think we're probably looking very close to the area that we that we put... ah So... ah Around 1100. Yeah. um Like, I don't think it's as good as JLA Heaven's Ladder, which is at 1108.

Speaker: ah I don't... You know what I don't know it's as good as Blood is the Harvest. Alright. Because I do think Blood is the Harvest is more memorable. Okay.

Speaker: Uh... um'm I'm going to scroll it down a little bit. i don't think it's good as Gotham by Gaslight. i don't think it's as good as Wild Dog. What's Wild Dog doing at 1147? That seems like something you decided.

Speaker: i don't know if I was present for that. You had to be. Hmm. Hmm. m Is it as good as Fastlane? Again, i would say no. Fastlane's extremely memorable.

Speaker: Okay, great. I don't know if it's as good as that X-O Manowar story where Ninja Act shows up.

Speaker: But it is better than Daredevil Yellow. Okay. I'm going to it at 1191. Alright, this is the new 1191. And that Spitfire One-Shot.

Speaker: ah and that is bitfi one shots Or I'll just say Spitfire 2010. Which is just the one one issue.

Speaker: Alright, our next submission is also from Jolene. so Jolene? i cannot rank both of these in one episode. so I could potentially come back to this, but rules is rules. all right Rules is rules.

Speaker: is rules Our next submission is from Brad Ellison.

Speaker: Fellas, here in the past, Chris Sims just read Marvel's Illuminator, the um evangelical Christian superhero co-published by Nelson. The proud purveyors of that book about that three-year-old who went to heaven for a little while and came back with a lot of hot gossip about it. Colton Burpo.

Speaker: I will never forget that that kid's name is Colton Burpo. Nope. Again, memorable. For the rest of my life, I will remember that that kid's name is Colton Burpo.

Speaker: and he And he said, heaven is for real, Matt. He sure did. So here's the Dope Dogs new submission.

Speaker: First, the Illuminator's origin in Battle with Nightfire, the drew Demon Drug Dealer, Illuminator number one. Okay, so we're doing this. Okay. We're we're doing this, yes. Okay, sure.

Speaker: Now, I love this because it has been like a couple years since we talked about Illuminator on Apocrypals. If you want to hear and Benito go through Illuminator oh in in a lot of detail, ah then you can find that in... ah and ah That is ah episode 112, I believe, of Apocrypels, which is called Approximate Week 6, The Undiscovered Country. um

Speaker: That is... When we decided for our ah our our mutual birthday episode, we would do this instead of doing like an actual text. Although this is certainly a Christian text of some description. It it is a text, yes. yes Illuminator, he's he is the superhero who loves Jesus.

Speaker: Actually, that's Daredevil, I think. did Well, Daredevil loves Jesus in a different way. Daredevil is is is Catholic, so he's guilty and feels a lot of weight of responsibility. Oh, Illuminator is Baptist.

Speaker: but Illuminator definitely... Illuminator's from Nashville. He is Southern Baptist, my dude. yeah Yeah. um I remember when you guys did that episode of Apocrypals, and I was like...

Speaker: shit, they're going read Illuminator. Maybe I should read it. And then I read like a few pages of it and, um, said to myself, I don't have to do this. Yeah. Yeah. You don't.

Speaker: So Matt, are you telling me it didn't lead you to Christ? Um, unfortunately, no, unfortunately, no. Um, um God, Illuminator has the worst fucking costume. It sucks.

Speaker: It's got a god of jacket, Matt. You should love it. it sucks so bad. i like i i know I should love it because it has jacket, but it is... Woof. It is it is bad.

Speaker: There's something in like this kind of superhero, right? like A superhero who is created...

Speaker: for, i don't necessarily want to say marketing purposes, because I don't, like, that makes it sound like I i think there's a an insincerity to Illuminator that I don't necessarily know is there.

Speaker: But, like

Speaker: like, promo comic stuff, or, like, like weird kind of like, Partnership comics. Partnership comics. Where, like, instead of just designing a superhero, they design a like a costume that that you could assemble for appearances.

Speaker: Like, Illuminator could show up at your church wearing right a white turtleneck, a blue motorcycle jacket, and a motorcycle helmet, and football pants.

Speaker: Right. Like, I think maybe part of why his costume is so bad is like, it feels like it's intentionally – a costume that it would be easy to replicate in real life, like for a person to wear.

Speaker: Yeah. yeah Yeah. Yeah. Like you, you could, the, the Illuminator cosplayers out there would not have a hard time sourcing this. I don't think.

Speaker: I think the, the, heart the hardest thing would be that baby blue motorcycle jacket with the sleeves rolled up, which is the best part of the costume, honestly. Oh, yeah, it is. But the the helmet and the the like the weird pants, ah not good.

Speaker: Did you watch that that Honky Tonk Man shoot interview? Yes. It was like, baby blue. yeah They put you in that baby blue. yeah I have seen that, yeah. ah Is that the same one where he rebuts... ah ah Jake Roberts?

Speaker: Maybe. i think it is. its I believe it's the same one where he talks about where he says a lot of words that we can't repeat about, i think, Jerry Lawler's wife at the time.

Speaker: Probably. but I know, like, you know, Jake Roberts always had like a lot of ah hatred for the Honky Tonk Man with good reason.

Speaker: wonder why. I wonder why. Because he hit him in the head with a real guitar. um But, ah yeah, anyway, nonetheless.

Speaker: Anyway, yeah, ah just looking at him. Illuminator, he's in that baby blue. So you know he's on his way out. um It's not good.

Speaker: Are all three of these comics going to be Illuminator 1, 2, and 3? No. Okay. Okay. Because I do feel like we could rank Illuminator 1, 2, and 3 as a single story. Well, I'll tell you what the other two are, just so ah so you know. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: The second submission is the Illuminator vs. Godless Evolutionary Mad Science, which is Illuminator 2 main story. ha The third one is the Illuminator Christmas Special slash The Nom Crossover, Illuminator 2 Backup Story.

Speaker: Okay, so it is all Illuminator. It's all Illuminator, but it is not Illuminator 1, 2, and 3. Mad... man I'm not ranking these separately.

Speaker: Okay, so we're just going to tell you that right now. I'm not ranking these separate. I'm not going through this six times. All right. So so we're going to do, let's let's just do Illuminator 1 through 3 as one entry on the list.

Speaker: I'm not doing the backups, Matt. I'm not doing the backups. Well, they they are included in Illuminator 1 through 3. Yes. Okay.

Speaker: ah' it's not it's not a It's not a The NOM crossover either. i I believe it's set in Cambodia. I think that is a joke. I think that's a joke on Brad's part.

Speaker: i wish I wish it was a crossover with with The NOM. It's weird that The NOM did have crossovers.

Speaker: Yeah. sure It sure is. sure is Yeah. Um, so Illuminator is not very good. Like, it's not very well drawn. It's not very well written. The costume design is bad. I don't think it's very good from a, like, an evangelical standpoint in that, like, I don't think it is a very good, like, I don't think it does a good job making the case for religion. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: Like, basically it's just like, hey, don't don't do drugs that a guy dressed like Crocodile Dundee is trying to sell you.

Speaker: There is one really good bit in the first issue where the Illuminator is hallucinating and his hallucinations all look like Archie comics.

Speaker: Alright, yeah. And that's kind of it.

Speaker: But yeah, it's not good. It's not good. it's not good

Speaker: Alright. Give me a number. Like, 1400s? I mean... Illuminator's like... It's not hateful. know? art's pretty alright. It's pretty bad, Matt.

Speaker: not hateful you know the art's pretty all right it's it's pretty bad matt be real Be for real?

Speaker: It's competent. It's competent, yeah. It's competent. If an X-Men book looked like this, you would be like, this is trash. You're probably right. You're probably right. Okay.

Speaker: At 1500 Spider-Man Planet of the Symbiotes. Hmm. Yeah, I don't think it's that good. Okay. Okay.

Speaker: At 1514 is Thor Vikings. Is this better or worse than Thor Vikings? I mean, look, Thor Vikings is a bummer and kind of gross, but it is like Garth and his and Clint Fabry. It's like, this is so bad it can be, you know? That's that's true, yes.

Speaker: Yeah. All right, at 1550 is Live, Kree, or Die, the Avengers, Captain America, Iron Man, Quicksilver crossover. Oof. Again...

Speaker: That's like a Mark Waite, Kirkusick, John Ostrander. Yeah, there's a baseline of quality. Yeah, I don't like it. But I think it does a better job selling itself than then this book does.

Speaker: Okay, 1556 is Fate 1994. Man Called Fate. I do regret to inform you that that book sucks.

Speaker: um i think it's better I think it's better than this, but I do think I would rather read Illuminator again than Civil War Frontline, if we're being honest. Okay, so it's right under fate at the new number 1557.

Speaker: Yeah, afraid so. All right. Illuminators number one through three at the new number 1557. Brad, we we had to ah reorganize your submission there.

Speaker: And then Brad said, if anything is DQ'd, the backup is Marvel's adaptation of Anita Blake Vampire Hunter The Laughing Corpse. Ooh, I don't know if I can if i can really in on that one, because I believe i'm I'm quoted on the paperback, or on the hardcover.

Speaker: I mean, we've ranked... Might be ah be a conflict of interest there. We've ranked Astro City Comics for... Alright, alright, alright. Oh wait, did Matt, did you listen to the episode enough to know who wrote Illuminator?

Speaker: Yes. Yeah, I listened to the episode. Yeah, the writer of Fastlane? Yeah, I just didn't i just didn't ah read the comic. that That's what I gave up on. I didn't give up on listening to the episode.

Speaker: Okay. I just wondered if you picked up that it was the writer of Fastlane. Yes, i i I recall that. i did It was a couple years ago, so I didn't remember it off the top of my head, but i do recall that now.

Speaker: Okay. Thank you, Brad, for sending me that. Wait, are we doing Anita Blake? It's up to you. mean, yeah, we should. Okay. Let me get this this information here. so it's everything if If everything keeps going the way it's going...

Speaker: The middle of the list is going to change because everything is going below middle. Yeah, man. There's some rough stuff in here. Now, I think Laughing Corpse was the second.

Speaker: oh The second Anita Blake series. Because I think it was Guilty Pleasures was the first one, maybe. Yeah, I believe you're right. I think you're right.

Speaker: Yeah, and this one was the one that was like...

Speaker: I think this is where I tapped out of Anita Blake. um Because it had like, it was drawn by Ron Lim, but it was Ron Lim doing Brett Booth.

Speaker: So it was like Ron Lim drawing worse than I know Ron Lim can draw.

Speaker: yeah And also it was bad. yeah Like that's the thing. Those Anita Blake books, they were not good. I don't know if the book books are good. The comics sure weren't. oh I mean, you know, if if you've been around long enough, you know.

Speaker: you You know my feelings on these. i i I can't claim I didn't read them, unfortunately. It's like, you know how I i went back and I i popped back into Tarot to see how that was doing?

Speaker: A couple ah couple weeks ago. i And you were like, I'm i'm in again. I'm back in. Because this lady's throwing babies. There's a vampire lady and her big plan to to get the heroes to not shoot at her was to fucking throw babies at them.

Speaker: And that shit owned. That shit was great. Like, Anita Blake wasn't tarot enough. You know? Like, if you're gonna bad,

Speaker: Be bad.

Speaker: If it's going to be bad, make it as bad as it can be. Yeah. yeah That's right. You tell them. Yeah, she fights zombies in this one. Which... She definitely doesn't... like I don't think she hunted vampires in any of these fucking comics.

Speaker: That seems to not you know sell what the title is offering. Yeah, man. oh I'm going to say bad.

Speaker: I'm going to say very bad. Okay. there There is a very fun cover, variant cover, where um she's fighting Wolverine. And it does have it does have a disclaimer that says Wolverine does not appear in this issue.

Speaker: That's, you know, that's that's humorous. Yeah. Man, Ron Loom...

Speaker: it's It's so weird reading this being like, Ron Lim, could do so much better.

Speaker: Well, you know. you know Sometimes you gotta to take a job. Yeah, man. Look. Ron Lim gotta get paid. I don't begrudge him. Yeah. But I feel like like like I did when I was reading the 1776 comic.

Speaker: Which someone should submit, because it is arguably the worst comic I've read in a while. ah But like, not offensive, just incompetent. No, not offensive, just like incredibly bad.

Speaker: Yeah. All right. Where did we decide need a Blake goes? Matt, there's a bit where they they have to be like, they're like, we need somebody to go make an inspirational speech and someone to go ah fight, like get between these two armies and and and and stop from fighting. Like hold the line there.

Speaker: Iron Man, you go make the inspirational speech. Captain America, you go go do the army stuff.

Speaker: And it's like, why would you write it why would you write it like that? First of all, why would you set up that that choice and then make the wrong choice?

Speaker: No one made you do that. That's true. Anyway, I need a Blake. It's bad. It's bad. it's the The first one's more fun. This one was just like boring, which I think is the worst thing about it.

Speaker: um

Speaker: It's not as good as Punisher at the end. We have that at 1585. It's probably not as good as Spider-Man the Other. That's pretty bad, though. I think where it has to go is going to be ah the the new the new fifteen ninety

Speaker: 1598, okay. And Uncanny X-Men, She Lies with Angels. that Alright. but ah So that's Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter, The Laughing Corpse.

Speaker: Which includes both Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter, The Laughing Corpse, Volume 1, and Anita Blake, Vampire Hunter, The Laughing Corpse, Necromancer.

Speaker: And she hunts no vampires. Yeah, I don't think so. There's zombies in this one. Wild. Wild. So I think there is a Necromancer.

Speaker: Okay, at least that part of the title is accurate. that the The one that they they tacked on for the second... It might be book two colon Necromancer. Actually, now that I think of it, there's they really do a lot.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Alright. Thank you, Brad, for that list. Our next list is from Patrick O'Duffy, the boss dog. Noted scare tactics fan. That's right. buffy Patrick says, my last submission was a list of Bronze Age DC stories.

Speaker: So let's keep winding back the clock with some Silver Age stories. Okay. First, showcase number four, Mystery of the Human Thunderbolt by Robert Kaniger and Carmine Infantino. First appearance of Barry Allen?

Speaker: Yes. Good. That story's good.

Speaker: it It introduces the Silver Age Flash. I mean, it is it is arguably the start of the Silver Age, right? Yeah, like it like that's where I would put it. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: ah Was that 54? 56. 1956. Yeah. um I mean, it's good. It's weird in the way that like a lot of Bob Kaniger comics are weird.

Speaker: Particularly in that it opens with Barry Allen reading The Flash. Reading The Golden Age Flash and being like, what a cool character! I mean, if if nothing exemplifies the Silver Age, it's that. Like, you know, it's like, oh, those old heroes are from a different universe than us.

Speaker: Yeah, like, it's so weird that that's, like, that is literally page one of the Silver Age. I guess it's page two, because the first page is splash page. No, actually, you see it on...

Speaker: In the background of the splash page is Barry Allen drinking some ice cold milk and reading ah Flash comics. and then And then he's reading the comic um in like a but the bottom panel of the second page. yeah yeah i mean like i i think it's like i think it's worth noting that like...

Speaker: much of this is like is the same like up to this day. you know the The basics, much like Spider-Man's origin, there's no need to change it, which means that there's no need to change Wally's origin, which is the same origin.

Speaker: Correct, yeah. like Lighting gonna hit them chemicals. Now, what a lot of people don't remember about this, or at least I never remember until I look it up, is that he fights Turtle Man in this, who's the world's slowest man who's Who's just a guy in a turtleneck.

Speaker: Who's just a guy. He's not even like... He's not like a human turtle or anything. He's he's just a guy in a green turtleneck. Yeah. Like, he's not really themed.

Speaker: He's just like, I'm slow.

Speaker: Again, I think it's very funny that Barry Allen is like... damn, I guess I should just be the Flash. like that's That's like if you or I became Spider-Man.

Speaker: Right. We were reading a comic book about a character we like, and we're like, I could be that. Let me let me be that. well i mean like We were reading about a character that we liked, and then we got bit by radioactive spider.

Speaker: And then we were like, okay, I'll just make my costume different. I'll make costume different, but I will be called Spider-Man. Yeah.

Speaker: There's some good-ass art in this. like Yeah, man. Compared to other comics of the time period, this looks great. Yeah. like it's i've you know I've read this before, obviously. like It's

Speaker: a seminal story. I was going to say issue, but it's not even the whole issue. it's there's There's a second story in here. Do you like it when Barry Allen says that getting hit by that lightning bolt tossed him like a salad?

Speaker: That's my favorite part of this comic. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. ah But, like, yeah, I mean, like we were just talking about that Batman issue that's from five years after this, but looks so much older and feels so much older.

Speaker: You know? Yeah. It's just, like, the the the the demarcation lines are weren't quite so clear ah back at this point. Like, I mean, you know, there are there are books from the late Bronze Age that feel more modern, and there are books from the late Bronze Age that feel more.

Speaker: So it's not like it's just in the transition from Golden to Silver Age, but I feel like there's more of like, there's more lag in everybody catching up yeah with the Silver Age. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah. I mean, like like just the costume design. like I remember ah Chad once talking about like how Barry Allen is kind of like the first big superhero costume that is just colored-in naked guy, basically.

Speaker: Pretty much, yeah. Like... He's he's just got like that skin-tight suit, no cape. like he's like He's obviously wearing something, but it's like you know this is before Spider-Man. And like Captain America didn't look like he wasn't he was wearing like a skin-tight suit.

Speaker: But that's what superhero comics kind of became after this. like Green Lantern dresses like this. The FF essentially dressed like this, with belts. Yeah. But it's damn, like this is Fantino inked by Joe Kubrick.

Speaker: And it just, man, it looks really good. Yeah. Like there's a panel where like a bunch of ah like ah Barry's at a diner and the the server drops a tray of food and he's just like catching it all.

Speaker: And it's it's great. It's absolutely great. yeah And it's pretty much like all here. you know like he does his He does his speed tricks. He he sees... ah you know he kicks into super speed and sees a bullet like slowly heading towards Iris and saves her. so like ah i mean It's a good story.

Speaker: it's I think it's like... far more readable and far more like enjoyable than when we ranked like the first appearances of the golden age characters. I agree. like Yeah. i Yeah. Yeah. This is, I mean, it's obviously, you 16, 17 years later, but it's like,

Speaker: this is so much more readable than the first action comic story or or the first Batman story in Detective. It's like, yeah there's action in this. but and And like I say, I think it takes maybe about five years for the rest of comics, not all of it, but like a good chunk of it to like really catch up. like I think you you don't like you're not locked into like, oh, things are different now.

Speaker: Until you get to Fantastic Four number one. Yeah. Yeah, very much I will go to bat as far as quality for like Superman and Jimmy Olsen and Legion stories starting in 58 from this era. But if you want to read something that feels like it is more modern, you've got to read Flash.

Speaker: Yeah. ah All right. Who's the bald guy in the second story? It's definitely not Lex Luthor, but it sure looks like him. ah Yeah, because he's wearing purple and green.

Speaker: Yeah. And shooting ah shooting a ray gun. I forget this guy. i don't know who that is. Anyway. yeah ah

Speaker: Yeah, I i think this story is not... He's a thief from the future. His name is Mazdan. Yeah, it's a future name, man. He's got a future name. yeah Yeah. Regular present day names? They don't have Z's in them.

Speaker: A thief from the far future who was sentenced to be exiled in the desolate 50th century by means of a time capsule. Can I tell you like my favorite like bad like naming thing in comics?

Speaker: Sure. Sure.

Speaker: And I don't know that this is why this character's name is this way, but I 100% believe it. And maybe that's on me, but it's not. It's on Peter David.

Speaker: um The fact that Spider-Man 2099, his name is Miguel O'Hara, because that's like a Latino name and an Irish name. look like That could never happen in the present. He's from 100 years in the future.

Speaker: Like, you you know that's what it is. You know that's what it is. It's absolutely what it is, yes.

Speaker: with what What mad universe have we found ourselves in?

Speaker: where someone could have an Irish dad and a, you know, Latina mom. Um...

Speaker: This has got to be in like... I would easily put this in like... Maybe not the 200s, but like 300s or 400s.

Speaker: ah Let's see

Speaker: The coming of Superman is... Sorry. Watch out. You better watch out.

Speaker: Oh, that it's not even that late. It's 830. I mean, you know, time is relative. That got me.

Speaker: ah The Coming of Superman, which is the Action Comics number one story, that's at 575. This is not that it as important as that, but it's probably like... It's close, I think.

Speaker: And it is like a much more readable story. And it's a better story. yeah Although, fucking Turtle Man. That's you know's some fucking Rob Canninger bullshit right there.

Speaker: it's It feels like it's you know trying to be clever. Yeah, well, it's that Robert Canninger thing where it's like, he put one second of thought into that. Because he had shit to do.

Speaker: Like, who went in a fight between the world's fastest man and the world's slowest man? Well, the fastest guy. That's who's going to win that fight. Like, who went fight between the world's strongest man and the world's weakest man? don't know, man. Probably the strongest guy. Also, Flash like rides around in speedboat in this, which I think is very funny.

Speaker: Yes, yes, he's riding around in a speedboat. ah Turtle Man did not come back that many times. No, Turtle Man was absent for quite a while. Came back in the in the the Wade run, for sure.

Speaker: Has a total of 17 appearances. yeah

Speaker: Jeff Jones probably made him do cocaine off a turtle. I mean, yeah. that I don't know if there was a post-New 52 Turtle Man. Surely there was. i think Turtle Man was on the TV show, too. Like the the Grant Gustin TV show.

Speaker: oh that makes sense. Okay. in Well, post New 52, he's just the turtle. Yeah. he He looks more like a turtle now. And he has 32 appearances.

Speaker: Yeah. So... He was introduced in New 52 Continuity by Scott Snyder in Justice League number two. Hell yeah, he was.

Speaker: Yeah. He's so slow. How can we ever defeat him? He's a conduit of this. Didn't he the slow force? He has the still force. The still force. That's what it is.

Speaker: Yeah. Matt, the longer we do this. The longer we do this, the more I think we should have done something else with our lives.

Speaker: um No, this this story's good. this it's ah It's a good story. I do think... i don't I don't think it goes above the coming of Superman. Okay.

Speaker: What number is that at? It's a 575. Okay. I know you were talking about the two hundred but I think that's way too high. I mean, I do think this is good.

Speaker: No, i think it's I think it's good, too. but it's like I think it's good, and I think it's important. Yeah. But I don't think it's... It's not as important as the first Superman story. And I think it's got the Turtle Men in it.

Speaker: That's fair. Okay. Okay.

Speaker: I mean, I don't think it's as good as some of the stuff we have in the like upper 500s, now that I'm looking. ah at number 600, we have Rom Space Knight That's a good-ass comic.

Speaker: It's certainly not as important. Yeah, but like we got some some other good stuff just below that.

Speaker: Like, we got Judge Dread, Judge Death, Judge Death Lives at 609. That's pretty good. I'll tell you, I'll tell you, Carmen Infantino, inked by Joe Qbert, is not as good as Brian Boland.

Speaker: It's good. Don't get me wrong. It's not as good as Brian Boland at the height of his powers. Okay, at 613, we have Jimmy Olsen, monarch of all he subdues. Better or worse than that?

Speaker: I think this is, if we're taking legacy into account, this is better. Yeah. But it's probably not better than the Suicide Squad on Apocalypse. I would say it's better than that, but not as good as the Mark Waid, Ron Carney, Captain America.

Speaker: Okay, so that makes this the new number 612. Yeah. So, showcase number four.

Speaker: First Silver Age Flash.

Speaker: I mean, I guess, should we just say it's the one story, or should we just say it's the whole issue? I believe what was submitted was the Mystery of the Human Thunderbolt. Which is just the one story. Okay.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Okay. That was 1956. Okay.

Speaker: Now, if he is the human Thunderbolt, then he only goes the speed of sound, which... Anyway... um

Speaker: maral It's It's a metaphor. yeah um Adventure Comics number 332 is the next submission from Patrick. The Super Moby Dick of Space by Edmund Hamilton and John Forte.

Speaker: That's the first appearance of Ultra Boy, my dude.

Speaker: Jonah. Okay, so this this is some Legion stuff. Yeah, man. Alright, alright, alright, alright. what's the What's the number? 332. Ultra Boy.

Speaker: Ultra Boy's fucking great.

Speaker: Ultra Boy. Is this the first? is This has got to be the first Ultra Boy. Because it's got the whale, the space whale.

Speaker: The Super Moby Dick. this is I think this is when ah Ultra Boy goes after the space whale for revenge.

Speaker: and Okay. Yeah, that's right. This is where he goes. this is Okay, this is not the first space whale that they fought. This is when he goes off on his own like that one episode of Star Trek, which is also based on Moby Dick.

Speaker: Right, okay. with About Captain Kirk's brother, who is oh ah William Shatner with a fake mustache on. Now, I think this is Lightning Lad trying to get revenge on Oh, that's right, because Ultra Boy goes after him, but then Lightning Lad tries to stop him.

Speaker: And is this where Lightning Lad dies? It's been a minute since I've read these, Matt.

Speaker: Or is this where Lightning Lad loses his arm? He does get a ah prosthetic arm at one point in this. ah Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay.

Speaker: All right. I thought this was like three different stories before I remembered this one. I'm looking at it now. Calling it the Super Moby Dick is very funny, because that is what they call it in the story.

Speaker: And it's like a big old cart like oh green space whale with dragon wings and mean cartoon eyebrows.

Speaker: That's great. Yeah, yeah so really does he really does have mean cartoon eyebrows. it's You're not joking about that. So Lightning Lad tries to shoot the space whale with his lightning. Because, you know, to a man with a hammer.

Speaker: um But, obviously, the lightning bolts bounce backwards and hit him in the arm, but they've been turned into poison.

Speaker: Right, so his arm turns green. His arm turns green, and then they have to amputate it. Yeah. So now now he's out for revenge.

Speaker: And and Superboy has to like tell him all about Moby Dick. I guess it's the doctor. And Superboy's like, yeah, man, I went to school.

Speaker: oh Legion, I don't think the Legion went to school, man. I guess they could like just do like the X-Men, just program all the knowledge you need into your brain in the future. Yeah, they're they're from the future. they they just got like You just download knowledge.

Speaker: Yeah. yeah Man, I wish I could do that. I guess that's what reading is. True. It's downloading the knowledge of what happened in The Legion of Superheroes into my brain.

Speaker: oh So yeah, ah Ultra Boy goes after him. But you know, Ultra Boy has the best powers in comics, which is that he has all of Superboy's powers, but he can only use one at a time. Which great.

Speaker: That's such a great idea. ah but he can't take him out, so Lightning Lad has to go out for revenge. Now, I do like that at one point, Colossal Boy fights the space whale and just kind of like hits him with pocket sand.

Speaker: And it's like, that's all that's all you can do? You want to get in there and wrestle him a little bit?

Speaker: I guess, ah ah like, don't know. Seems like he could done more.

Speaker: Seems like he could have done more.

Speaker: Now, Matt, can i ask you question? Please. What do you know about the world of dead robots?

Speaker: I know that they go there. Yeah, they go to the world of the dead robots. To pursue the space Moby Dick. Yeah, they just throw that one out there. That's just a casual mention.

Speaker: And then they then they shrink him down and... ah Amazing! Like, they shrink him down and... you think that, like... Lightning Lies is just going like, stomp on him?

Speaker: Like, shrink him down to bug size and then just stomp on him? ah So I couldn't tell you my plan. And you thought I was still motivated by Warped Hatred of the Super Moby Dick.

Speaker: Great. right so they take him They take him to ah Dr. Lanfear, who just like does experiments on him.

Speaker: Well, that that's his origin. That's the origin of ah oh is the space beast. The super Moby Dick used to be bit tiny, but then it got then it grew.

Speaker: and'm just Then the super Moby Dick, Matt, it got too excited. He got too hyper.

Speaker: I got too hyper. I'll try negative the force and see if it increases in size. So he blasts the Super Moby Dick with a beam that makes it get really huge. Okay, and so so that was a flashback. so ah No, they just make it small, and then it's small, and then they're done.

Speaker: yeah And that's it. It's over. okay ah But, I've written about this before, like one of the really interesting things about the Legion at this time was like, Lightning Lad has a robot arm for like the rest of the Silver Age. Lightning Lad, this is a permanent change. like It doesn't go back to status quo.

Speaker: Lightning Lad just has a ah robot arm now because he got his arm poisoned with lightning by the Super Moby Dick of Space after it got too big and hard.

Speaker: And whonst among us has not injured our our hands. Injured our arms. to about I know you're not going to cut that out, Matt.

Speaker: Well, ah ah yeah. I mean, everybody gets it. Everybody does what we're saying. everybody ah the i The story does end, though, with Lightning Lad being like, I have hope that I can get a real arm back.

Speaker: ah Which, yeah, I guess he never does. I mean, eventually continuity gets rebooted. Eventually, yeah. Then he loses his arm again. Yeah.

Speaker: But not to the super mo Moby Dick that got to... 20 years from now. um That got to Engorged.

Speaker: um Yeah.

Speaker: Inflagrante, this space Moby Dick. They keep calling it the Supermoby Dick.

Speaker: They keep saying it. Anyway, yeah. But i like I think that's cool. like I think that like stuff in in Legion... like you know People died and came back and and and lost arms. and I think that's that's really cool. I think that's a really cool thing about the Legion that sets it aside from the rest of the Silver Age DC universe. like It was the only one like The only series that like didn't kind of return, but like had Marvel Comics-style progression yeah the 60s. I think that's cool.

Speaker: Alright, let's rank the story about the Super Moby Dick. The space creature that was tumescent.

Speaker: ah where Where are we going to put it? I do like that it's a whale, but instead of like fins, it has dragon wings. Wings, yeah. And just a big ol' flat head.

Speaker: i like that. um It doesn't really look like a whale. It looks more like a dragon. Yes. Yeah. i'll tell I mean, I'll tell you what it looks like.

Speaker: Looks like what they used to call a marital aid. I mean, it looks like a fish. is whats kind of what yeah Looks like a real bad dragon.

Speaker: I'm not even that tired, Matt. you know It's fair. i mean, we're just describing the Super Movie Digs of space. We're just describing the Super Movie Dig. um i think it's I think we're probably looking at the 800 or great. At number and 2.

Speaker: we have

Speaker: spider men one and two Now, right above that, we have Doom, Knee Deep in the Dead, a comic that I secretly believe is good. That I believe is secretly good.

Speaker: think they knew what they were doing. Agreed. Fully agreed. And I think Spider-Man 1 2 are both good ah miniseries. so yeah ah

Speaker: I think this is on par with Funeral for a Friend, though. okay And I think it's probably better than the Marvel team-up where ah oh Mary Jane gets possessed by Red Sonja.

Speaker: So, the new number 901? Yeah, I think the new number 901. Alright, Adventure Comics number 332. The

Speaker: the Super Moby Dick. And there's a hyphen between Super and Moby.

Speaker: Yeah, Supermoby. So it's so it's it's a Supermoby dick. It's a Supermoby dick. Yeah. Is it of space?

Speaker: Of space. Of space. It's a real dick of space. It's a real Supermoby dick of space. Okay. Okay. Great. Finally on Patrick's list is My Greatest Adventure number 80-85 and Doom Patrol numbers eighty six to one twenty one The entire Silver Age Doom Patrol run by Arnold Drake and Bruno Premiani.

Speaker: I think you can Starman rule this as one entry. Perhaps we can. Perhaps we can, but I have not read all of those comics. Have you never read like original like Silver Age Doom Patrol?

Speaker: I've read some of it, but I have not read all of it. I mean, it's good. It's really good. And, like, the the Bruno Premiani art is beautiful. Yeah, I mean, i've what I've read of it, I liked a lot.

Speaker: Yeah. I think that's that's way too much for one, though, because these are, like, very distinct stories.

Speaker: Okay, so... think they're probably of similar quality, but, like, I would i think they could be ranked individually. Okay, so, Patrick, we're going to send you back to the drawing board.

Speaker: Yeah. And ask you to present us with one Doom Patrol, Silver Age Doom Patrol story to rank.

Speaker: Yeah, god almighty, these are good-looking comics, though. They're really good. They look great, yeah. i Like, if you read these, like, these are the ones where i like... Absolutely. Like the the DC Archive hardcovers with like the glossy paper with the original coloring.

Speaker: They look so good.

Speaker: Yeah. like I feel like that Doom Patrol is a book that was ahead of its time. Yeah. Both in like concept, but also in just art.

Speaker: ah Yeah. Good looking book. it's It's weird that like... I don't why you don't. like I've never actually gone and looked him up, but I wonder why you didn't see more of Bruno Premiani.

Speaker: Well, we do have a backup from Patrick. Probably because he died in 1984. but We do have a backup from Patrick, which is the Brave and the Bold number 54, the 1001 Dooms of Mr. Twister by Bob Haney and Bruno Premiani.

Speaker: Ooh, what number is that? Brave and Bold number 54. I don't know if I've read it, but that sounds good.

Speaker: Which makes it from around probably 1960. And it's an Aqualad and Robin story. So I've definitely not read it.

Speaker: It's Kid Flash, Aqualad, and Robin. it's all okay this This is early Teen Titans. yeah Before they were the Teen Titans. Correct. It's just like, you know, the the sidekick team

Speaker: fighting... I like that this has Batman sitting around in the Batcave reading a newspaper in full costume going, those hat in corners teenagers are acting like spoiled brats.

Speaker: Is this the first Teen Titans story? I do not know.

Speaker: Fellas, that note's a phony. No teenager would use the word music in a hip language message. They'd use jive. That barn was wrecked by some terrific wind.

Speaker: Bob, you really had the finger on the pulse. I don't think Bob Haney could accurately describe how anyone other than Bob Haney would talk. That I think is true. I think that's very true.

Speaker: Mr. Twister is a wild character. Oh my god. yeah ah Yeah, you you're looking at him? You looking at him now? No. He's got a lot going on. There's a lot going on with Mr. Twister.

Speaker: I don't think I like him. No, i think I think Mr. Twister is pretty bad. i like I can't quite put my finger on it, but I feel like he's offensive in some way.

Speaker: Well... He's dressed like a like a settler, like a colonial settler. Yeah. With a tri-corner cap, but he's also wearing like a big fur cape.

Speaker: Yes. And has like a dreamcatcher on a stick. He's got like a staff with feathers on it. Yeah. i i'd like i just I don't know what's going on with Mr. Twister.

Speaker: This is the first...

Speaker: it's not it's It's the first of 17 appearances from Mr. Twister. That's so many. that's his His real name is Brubwell Stick.

Speaker: That's great. Oh, Jesus. Okay, so his staff is a Native American staff. It is how he he controls the winds. I knew there was some shit with him. I knew, god damn it. Yeah, man. Yeah, man.

Speaker: I've not read this story. Nor have Nor have I. It looks like a wild one, though.

Speaker: um Would you like to take um guess as to who... ah Wait, actually, no. We're not even going to address it.

Speaker: Never mind.

Speaker: Never mind. He like, ah Mr. Twister made some appearances in the Silver Age, some more appearances in the Silver Age. And then he came back, he was brought back in like 2000. Okay.

Speaker: okay um Devin Grayson wrote some stories that he's in. right. In Titans. In Titans, yeah. In late 90s Titans.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And then, yeah, there was a later Titans appearance. And I was going to mention the writer of that, but actually, no, I'm not. And you will know what that means if you know what I'm talking about.

Speaker: And we won't go into into it any further. All right.

Speaker: Here's our next list. It's from Chris Kaiser. The Kais.

Speaker: This is a list of three different takes on who killed the Waynes.

Speaker: First, Batman number 47, the origin of the Batman. Wherein Batman unmasks himself to Joe Chill, leading to Chill freaking out over having been responsible for for creating Batman. ah Written by Bill Finger, with art by question mark.

Speaker: ah Let me tell you something about that, Matt. Let me tell you a little something about that story. It owns. Yeah.

Speaker: it's it's one of Yeah, I've read this too. ah I feel like like sometimes they get it right the first time, and you don't need to retell these stories over and over again, ah even though obviously it it will happen and has happened.

Speaker: ah But yeah, this this Joe Chill story from the nineteen forty s ah whips. It owns. It's great.

Speaker: Yeah. like i I generally i will say that I generally prefer the idea of ah good Batman not knowing who killed his parents. That it was just like a random crime.

Speaker: yeah um But if you're going to have it be Joe Chill, this is it, man. And this is like you know I've talked a million times about reading Untold Legend of the Batman when I was a kid.

Speaker: And this is the origin that was in there.

Speaker: And... Like... Batman finding the guy who killed his parents. And then rocking up on him. And being like, what's up?

Speaker: i'm I'm Bruce Wayne. You killed my parents. You're the reason Batman exists.

Speaker: And then... Joe chill, like freaking out and running into the next room and being like, guys, you got to help me. Years ago, I killed some people and their kid grew up and became Batman. And now he's back to probably murder me.

Speaker: And then all of his guys going, you mean you're the reason there's a fucking Batman and turning on him. Yeah. And being like, you're the reason I got my shit wrecked and, uh, and got sent to prison for five years.

Speaker: Like, that's so good. The only thing about this that I think kind of... ah Well, there's a couple things that I think bring it down a little bit.

Speaker: okay First, it ends with like the murder of Thomas Wayne closed. If Batman is doing that, why is he still Batman?

Speaker: Well, I... Matt... look, okay, that's why he decided to become Batman, but, like, obviously, there's shit going on. There's still shit going on, but, you know. The Joker's still out there, man.

Speaker: Sure, but, like, it it's it raises the question, if nothing else, right? Like, you have you at least have to say, like, okay, so why stay Batman if you, like, avenged your parents, whatever.

Speaker: Well, because he swore on his parents' graves to make war on all criminals. That's true. like i don't think I don't think that at all. like I think, Matt, what why did you become a podcaster?

Speaker: Oh, um because a microphone killed my parents. Oh, right. And you have killed a microphone. That's true. um so the The second thing, which I think is more substantive, is that um so Batman takes off his mask he's like, hey, I'm the famous multi-millionaire Bruce Wayne.

Speaker: Yes. Right? And Joe Chill goes running into the other room and he hides Batman's identity. He doesn't tell the story in a very dramatic manner.

Speaker: He says, It's true. Batman just told me who he is. He became Batman because I killed his father. At no point does he say, he's Bruce Wayne.

Speaker: Yeah. And then that they kill him, and then the guy's like, hang on, he never told us who Batman was. Yeah. it's it's I mean, yes, it's a very it's it's very much a story.

Speaker: liked For sure, yeah. you can Yes, it's very written ah in that respect. But i think that's fine. i do think that's fine like I get it. i think if you know if you were retelling this story today, you would have to to change... like like You would rewrite that dialogue.

Speaker: Yeah. Or like... to Somehow explain that Joe Chill can't get out that Bruce Wayne is Batman before his guys kill him.

Speaker: yeah in ah In Untold Legend... which I happen to have a copy of right here. Uh, what happens is, uh, mean, it's pretty much the same. Uh, years ago, I knocked off a guy and now a son's after me and this guy's son, he's Batman.

Speaker: oh you killed Batman's father. You're kidding. It's true. I swear it. Batman just told me who he really is. He said, he can the Batman because I killed his folks. You mean you're the reason for Batman, et cetera, et cetera. Blame, blah, blah, blah, blah. Um,

Speaker: um Yeah. So, like, a little bit you know a little bit of restructuring. Yeah. oh yeah But, you know, like it's it's that kind of writing that's like, that's almost a fairy tale. It's like, and they killed him before he could tell them who Batman really was.

Speaker: What's also wild about this story is that, like, before Batman goes and deals with Joe Chill, he, like, beats up a bunch of crooks on a gambling boat.

Speaker: Yeah, man. because like got A lot of problems out there. Yeah. Julep. Julep's got his gambling tables and Batman's got to take care of that.

Speaker: You want him to quit being and Batman just because he finished up his shit. Monty Julep. And Monty Julep's still out there. Unbelievable, Matt.

Speaker: I'm not saying I want him to. I'm just saying you've got to explain it. here's what Here's my problem with it. Fuck Martha, I guess. Yeah, they never mention mom all.

Speaker: yeah

Speaker: and she's like She's in it. like When we see the flashback to the Wayans getting killed, she's there. She gets killed. I mean, also, like her grave is there. with her The graves are so shown. But that like but Joe Chill only kills cares about killing a man, not a woman. yeah We don't see...

Speaker: Oh, okay, yeah. um According to this version of the origin, which I wonder if this is like... i mean, this is still early, so I don't know if this is like a comics code thing.

Speaker: No, this is pre-code. But like he shoots Thomas, and then Martha has a heart attack and dies. So okay he yeah really only shot Thomas.

Speaker: But that's not how the origin is in Detective 33, first see when you first see it Well, you know, it's it's hard to... ah I mean, in this... it's Okay, he's only shown shooting Thomas. Mm-hmm.

Speaker: And then Martha says Thomas. And then it just cuts to Bruce standing like standing over his parents' bodies and saying, you killed them. You killed my mother and father. and its and it's But it says like you know that single bullet really killed two people.

Speaker: Oh, it does say Martha Wayne's weak heart stopped from the sudden shock. Yeah. So there you go. There you go. Yeah. It's a good story, though. like I think it's a...

Speaker: it's It's not flawless, but it is good. And like it's ah it's a good and affecting... like If you're going to answer the question, okay, well, what happened to the guy who killed Batman's parents? I think this is about as good as an answer is as you can get.

Speaker: I think that because like they've never done a better one.

Speaker: i i could see how you could read this and be like, this needs some modernizing. Uh, but I think yeah i also would agree that they haven't actually really pulled off doing a better job.

Speaker: Yeah. Uh, like even, you know, even finger would revisit this and it would be like, you know, Oh, it it actually, you know, Joe chill actually did the hit on the orders of Lou Moxon who has amnesia.

Speaker: Right. Yes. Like, but I think like the simplicity of this, of like, Oh, this guy kind of, you know, went back up to the, ah so you know, moved up through the ranks of the criminal underworld from this low-level street mugger to this guy who's running a smuggling operation.

Speaker: But, you know, he ain't gonna get around Batman. I think the only thing that comes close is Joe Chill in Hell, where Batman's like, hey, what's up?

Speaker: ah You're the reason I exist. You killed my parents. And then he leaves and Joe Chill shoots himself. Yep, yep. And we've I think we've ranked that. Yeah, and I think this is actually a little bit better. I like the idea of there just being like, the other criminals just being so fucking mad that if it wasn't for this guy, they wouldn't have Batman to deal with. Okay, we Joe Chillin' Hell is at number 539. Yeah, i think i mean, I think this is better.

Speaker: I think this is better. Okay. I really like this origin. like i think it's good. Now, I will say, it does have the shit with, uh, with, uh, what's name? Matt Julep?

Speaker: I wish his name was Matt Julep. It's Monty Julep. Monty Julep. Monty Julep. It does have Monty Julep and his crew of riverboat gamblers. Yeah.

Speaker: Which is, like, if we're gonna ding that Flash story for Turtle Man, don't think Monty Julep's got a lot of legs. Monty Julep is just like the river penguin.

Speaker: I mean, that's what he is. like I just got that it's Monty because that kind of sounds like Minty. Mint, yeah. Matt Julep would be better. Matt Julep.

Speaker: Because it's like almost Mint, but yeah, it's Monty Julep as an attempt to make it like Mint Julep. Maybe Mint Julep, like Mitt Romney. Mint Julep is, now we're getting somewhere. yeah Now we're getting somewhere.

Speaker: All right, let's let so it's above Joe Chill and Hell. I think so. At number 500 is Second Coming Volumes 1 and 2.

Speaker: That's pretty good stuff. That's pretty good stuff.

Speaker: Above or below? oh Probably...

Speaker: Probably above? Okay. like I don't think it's better than Autobiography of Bruce Wayne. That's really good. That's a $4.95. Yeah, but I think it probably isn't as good as Day of Chaos and Necropolis, the Judge Dredd stories.

Speaker: So I think maybe right above Batman Last Rites? Okay. um And let's see, this story is called The Origin of the Batman.

Speaker: I think this is not... i mean This is one of those things where it's like, I think this is the first time Joe Chill is ever named. yeah But, like, you know Wizard Magazine would list Detective Comics 27 as the first appearance of Joe Chill.

Speaker: Because the shooter is in the issue? Yeah, because he's in that... Well, he's actually not. He's in Detective 33. But, you know what I mean? Like, I'm with you on, like, I think it is better for the shooter...

Speaker: the the killer to just be some faceless, nameless guy. Because then bruce Bruce's crusade against crime, like it's not just about his parents, but also it could be any criminal.

Speaker: so like i did it I feel like that's thematically better. but none Yeah, I think like thematically, what kills Bruce Wayne's parents is... murder yeah is the concept of murder is is the concept of crime and the concept of crime yeah yeah um all right the concept of a man with a gun yeah next up on chris's list is detective comics number 235 the first batman which introduces lou moxson is the man who ordered the wayne's killing yeah this is uh this is the one where you find out that uh

Speaker: This is the most Silver Age-y that Batman ever gets, really. Because this is the one where you find out, like, hey, you know, it was actually ah Thomas Wayne who dressed up as Batman and punched a criminal first.

Speaker: What's the number? 240? It is 235. 235.

Speaker: it is two thirty five two two thirty five ah Yeah, it's like... Oh, right. The first Batman was Thomas Wayne. like The first Batman was Thomas Wayne because they went to a there there was like a Halloween party.

Speaker: Yeah. And which he dressed up as bat. Which informed ah Thomas Wayne Batman many years later. Yeah. so But he's just like dressed up in a bat costume.

Speaker: Which I actually like how... ah Who draws this? It's certainly not Bob Kane. Sheldon Muldoff. Sheldon Muldoff, yeah. I like how he designs the Thomas Wayne Batman costume to A, look like the the Bob Kane original Batman design.

Speaker: Yeah, it's also kind of deflator mo deflator mouse. Yes. A little bit, yeah. But it's got like the big sweat back wings, and it doesn't like it's just ah like a bodysuit with trunks, and like not a domino mask, because he makes it look like ah like an actual bat. But like it's clearly him doing a riff on what Kane would say was his original design for Batman, based on the Da Vinci stuff, which is bullshit, but that was the original design. You've all seen it. Yeah.

Speaker: But also makes it like evocative of Bruce's suit in in terms of like the colors. So that you can buy, like, oh yeah, my dad had a costume like this and that must have stuck with me.

Speaker: So when I decided to dress like a bat, I made it blue and gray for this reason. like i think that's I think that's actually like a really cool, subtle...

Speaker: ah Like, on the one hand, we don't need an explanation as to why this is blue and gray. Absolutely not! But on the other hand, I mean, if you're gonna do it, I guess this is the best way to do it. yeah No, this is a thoroughly unnecessary story. Because, again, it ah it's, you know, Thomas Wayne, actually, it' it's like if if you found Uncle Ben when he was like when Peter was really little, like, really liked spiders. Yeah.

Speaker: But DC loved doing that shit. DC loved being like, you know, Jor-El was actually a superhero. Everybody's dad's always doing shit. Everybody's dad's doing shit, yeah.

Speaker: My dad wasn't a writer.

Speaker: My dad played one video game, and it was Dr. Mario, and he played it for like three hours every day. My dad liked Wii Golf. My dad did not care about pro wrestling in the slightest.

Speaker: Like, sometimes sometimes kids just, like, pick shit up, man. Yeah. Anyway. oh Thoroughly unnecessary, because yes, it's like, not only was there another Batman, there was also another secret murderer of the Waynes. So i must in this story, Joe Chill...

Speaker: just gets killed by other mobsters who have a grudge against him, and it has nothing to do with Batman.

Speaker: is Is that? I thought this was like, I thought that it was building on what happened with, in the previous story. Well, I guess you could like, if you had read the previous story, you could like fill in the blanks.

Speaker: But the way this is presented is that like Batman had been investigating Joe chill and he knew that he killed that Joe chi chill killed his parents.

Speaker: But then Joe chill just kind of like, it says, but ironically, joy chill was shot down by other mobsters who had a grudge against him. And then there's a panel of Batman, like covering his body with a, you know,

Speaker: a tarp, and saying, he's dead, his own crimes finally caught up with him. I mean, I guess that is technically true. like Like, maybe he doesn't want to tell Robin, like, yeah, I told that guy who I was, and then his friend shot in the fucking face.

Speaker: Yeah, it's in this version of it, which I guess he is telling Robin, so, yeah. He just got killed by some other mobsters. Yeah. um But then they find out that it was ah the the costume party, which had a theme, flying creatures.

Speaker: Which is very funny. There's also a dude dressed a moth. It all comes back, Matt. Ah, the moth is back. It all comes back. ah During that party, Lou Moxon, who was a mobster, busted in made a Thomas Wayne oh fix a gunshot wound that he had so that he wouldn't have to go to the hospital. But Thomas Wayne, um ah after he patched him up, because, you know, he was a doctor. Actually, actually I don't know if he does.

Speaker: i don't think he does operate and get the the bullet out. i think he just beats everybody's ass. Which really makes you wonder how Joe Chill took him out so easy. He kicks the chair out from Lou Moxon.

Speaker: And then he beats up the other guys, and then the police take him away. And then in the trial, because I guess Thomas Wayne like testifies in the trial. Thomas Wayne testifies the trial. Yeah, and ah Lou Moxon says, I'll get you for this, Wayne. I'll get you. So instead of a random killing in Crime Alley, this was a revenge the revenge killing

Speaker: for... Thomas Wayne sending Lumox into prison. Yeah. Which I don't like for a lot of reasons. like Mainly because like it it all it makes it like... Having Thomas Wayne killed out of revenge is, I think... It just complicates things.

Speaker: And makes it like... It it does make it like i't no less noble for Batman to... like have like for there to be a reason for it.

Speaker: like I feel like it works better if Batman is is fighting against like you know a random act of violence. like i mean You can always explain it as like Bruce decides to be Batman as a child.

Speaker: yes like He sees the bat fly through and decides to become Batman as an adult, but he really like You know, he's from from childhood, he's like on the path to becoming Batman. Yeah, he's going to be something.

Speaker: Yeah. So like this is like some child-brained crusade against crime as a concept. Right. Which I think is good.

Speaker: Yeah, that isn't concrete. But like the more concrete and the more reason you have behind the Waynes being killed –

Speaker: the less Bruce's crusade kind of holds up to scrutiny, I feel like. Yeah, I like i just keep thinking about that. um There's that scene in Batman 89, and like I think it's meant to be like Joker just being being crazy, but it really comes off as like an indictment of that script where he's like, I made you, you made me, blah, blah, blah. It's like, yeah, it's like too complicated. It's unnecessary. Yeah.

Speaker: i I will say I kind of like that Thomas Wayne's downfall is that he he kind of, you know for certain values, does the right thing. like He stands up to these crooks and and doesn't let him kill him and, and, you know, then testifies even at the risk of his own life.

Speaker: I think maybe Thomas Wayne, the doctor should have probably done the operation and remove that bullet, but you know, whatever. ah So by the end of this, um Batman decides to put a scare into Lou Moxon by putting on his dad's old costume. well it's because his costume gets all like messed up, torn up.

Speaker: Yeah. And he's like, he's like, I look like shit. Yeah. But also, he's like, i i it might put a scare into lou Moxon to wear my dad's old costume.

Speaker: And so Lou Moxon is terrified to see this, and runs out in the street and gets hit by a truck. Yes. Which is a more elegant solution than having him be like, guys, you're never going to believe it. I know who Batman is, and I killed Batman's dad.

Speaker: But I'm not going to say his name. Yeah. And he's someone whose name I do know, but, oh I've been shot. Like, he just fully just runs outside and gets fucking pasted by a Mack truck, which is very funny.

Speaker: And Batman goes, box it, look out, that truck. Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah. I don't think this is a bad story. Like, there's there's parts of this that I like. Like, i think it's...

Speaker: i It's certainly not my favorite origin of Batman. Like, I prefer not knowing who it is.

Speaker: But if it's going to be somebody, it's Joe Chill. And then, like, having Lou Moxon involved is, like, three steps further down. Like... But I think the story itself is like very technically sound.

Speaker: yeah ah This is 1956, so it's like significantly later in in Batman's life. And I think it's a a more readable story. There's no Mitt Julep in this one.

Speaker: No Monty Julep, yeah. No Monty Julep. No Matt Julep. Matt D. Julep in this one. if you Yeah, if you bring back Monty Julep, DC Comics, rename him Matt D. Julep.

Speaker: ah Okay.

Speaker: So this one's going to below the other one, I feel confident. Yeah, I think it's i think it's a better story with a worse idea, if that makes sense. Yes, a better executed story, but a worse idea. Yes.

Speaker: i do I do still like it. And again, I think like, I think honestly the star here is Sheldon Moldoff for like, doing that really subtle riff on, on, on ah the Thomas Wayne Batman costume being like the inspiration, like not just having Thomas Wayne dressed up as Batman, you know? Right.

Speaker: It's, It's clearly a precursor to Batman. Yeah. Which which i hate I hate in stories where it's like like, this is the reason I hate Barry Allen's bow tie.

Speaker: Because it makes everybody a fucking dumbass who can't come up with anything. Yeah. Or who can't like just have a thing that they wear. Yeah. there's no ah Everything's got to be inspired by something. Like, like oh wow, i guess I guess Shakespeare didn't actually make anything up.

Speaker: I guess he just looked around and wrote put down whatever he saw. Yeah. That's right. I'm coming for Shakespeare in Love, baby. oh I thought you were coming for for um

Speaker: Hamnet, which... Oh, no. i I haven't seen that. I know i know David Wismary hated it. It sucks. like you want Here's an idea for a movie.

Speaker: Okay. Okay. Hit me. Shakespeare marries ah his wife. Anne Hathaway. They live together for like 20 years.

Speaker: And then she doesn't know what a play is. Interesting. She goes to see a play. And she's talking to the actors like they're talking to her.

Speaker: She's like talking through the performance. Yes. And nobody's like, hey, can can you can you quiet down? We're trying to watch this. there's There's a moment at the end of that scene.

Speaker: where my eyes rolled harder than they've ever rolled in my life. I'm amazed I can still see. it's It's... Like, i like if that if you had an emotional connection and reaction to that movie, fine.

Speaker: But, like, it was the most, like, pandering...

Speaker: manipulative... God, that movie does suck. um Anyway... so is she just like very credulous, like she's never heard a story? Kind of.

Speaker: And it's like, surely you talked about this. like there's a There's a scene earlier where she's like, let me read your what you're writing. And Shakespeare's like, no, no, no, not until I'm finished.

Speaker: So, like, she can read. i don't know. to so So does, like, like what does do we know what place she went and saw?

Speaker: Yeah, it was Hamlet. Okay, so is she like, hey, that guy just said he's a fucking murderer. Like, hey, somebody call cop. That's a real ghost. Yeah. ah there's a that's a real ghost du yeah that ghost that That guy killed him. yeah Hey, why are you acting like you're on a castle? Because this is this is a this is a stage in the middle of London.

Speaker: Yeah, I don't know, man. I don't know. But the like for real, real, there are parts where like the actors on stage are talking and she's like, why would you say that to me?

Speaker: is Is her name also Gertrude? Yeah. No, it's Anne. Yeah. um And if I was Anne Hathaway, if i was and not not famous actress Anne Hathaway, Catwoman Anne Hathaway, oh prince Princess Mia Thermopolis Anne Hathaway,

Speaker: ah i would been I'd be mad at being like, I wasn't dumb. Yeah. They make her so dumb in that movie. It's unbelievable. um Okay, let's rake this.

Speaker: Oh, right. We're talking about Batman. Yeah. um Yeah, no, I think it's a ah ah better written, worse idea. Okay. 800s, maybe?

Speaker: oh Maybe. um i Like, I do think it's good, and I do think it's worth reading. At 800, we have Daredevil Fall from Grace.

Speaker: Boy, talking about DG Chichester and Scott McDaniels Daredevil Fall from Grace. That's who I'm talking about. talking about that gym What a great cover. Hidden Gem.

Speaker: that That cover where he's falling out of the Empire State Building, that shit owns. but i i I know exactly what you're talking about. yeah oh

Speaker: I would say it's probably a little bit better than that. Okay. um Let's go to 757. Matt, you might have to temper me on this, though, because I am a a Batman guy, and elements of this were like in the second Batman story I ever read. so I mean, I think this is fine. I think this area of the list is fine for this. Okay. 750 is the Palmiati Grey Connor Power Girl.

Speaker: That's pretty good. That's pretty good stuff. Uh-huh. It's probably a little bit better than that. A little bit better than that.

Speaker: Is it better than...

Speaker: Transformers more than meets the eye shadow play?

Speaker: Just a little better. Just a little better. I think it's i think it's better than...

Speaker: i think it's... I think it's not as good as the Majin Buu saga. Okay. But I think it's probably better than the first Squirrel Girl.

Speaker: Although Squirrel Girl, again, great idea. Good execution. So wait, where does that put it? Maybe right under the first Squirrel Girl.

Speaker: What number is that? 730. 730. seven thirty

Speaker: Oh, right. Okay. So above Adventure Comics number 431. ye Yes, above the The Wrath of the Spectre. Okay, so Detective Comics number 235, The First Batman. 730? 730.

Speaker: thirty five the first batman

Speaker: is at number seven thirty

Speaker: Alright, one more on Chris's list. Detective Comics number 678, the zero-hour tie-in where Batman is transported back to the night his parents were killed and sees that Joe Chill is too drugged out to have done it.

Speaker: that is ah That is a Chuck Dixon, Graham Nolan story. o It sure is. now this okay Detective Comics tie-in?

Speaker: It's the Detective Comics zero hour ah issue. Wait, is this Detective Comics number zero? No, it's number 678. Oh, okay, okay, okay. So... Detective Comics number zero, that was the beginning of tomorrow.

Speaker: That's right, yeah.

Speaker: Now, on ah on the one hand, this is kind of stupid. Hmm. On the other hand, it does do what we've been requesting. which is make Which is anonymize

Speaker: the killer of Batman's parents. Yeah, because that was the thing post-Zero Hour. They went back to... because okay

Speaker: Silver Age Batman, Bronze Age Batman, Joe Chill, Lou Moxon. Bruce knew about it. Those were canon. yeah Crisis gets rid of that. Then Mike W. Barr brings it back in Batman Year 2.

Speaker: So then in Zero Hour, they get rid of it again. And this is that. Yeah, the story ends with Bruce coming back to the present and like running back to Wayne Manor.

Speaker: and saying, the doubt is still there. Even if it were an illusion, there is the uncertainty. Is it possible that I never brought their killer to justice? And in the end, does that matter? Does that make a difference in what I do? No, it does not.

Speaker: Yeah. Which, you know, is is the thing that I like. um Like, it is the... Like, that is my preferred origin.

Speaker: ah Unsurprisingly, this issue came out when I was 12. So this version of Batman is my version of Batman. you know And I will say, God Almighty, Graham Nolan.

Speaker: Oh, beautiful. What a fucking artist. there's beautiful There's panels in this that I would stack up against just about anything. Yeah, I mean, it looks great.

Speaker: It looks incredibly good. Yeah. But... yeah the whole the The way of explaining it is being that like Batman bursts into Joe Chill's room and he's like confused about where he is. Because he's on that smack.

Speaker: And yeah, like the his roommate or whoever... i like I like how you say roommate. That's very charitable of you, Pap. Who's like, been that way for two days. Used my whole check on that junk, the rotten.

Speaker: And then Batman's like, he wasn't out tonight? And she goes, only on gossamer wings, pal.

Speaker: Because he's too messed up on the junk.

Speaker: Like, that is a comic from whenever this came out. 1989 or whatever. 94. 94. Much later than I thought. Yeah, man, it's Chuck Dixon comic.

Speaker: Zero Hour ah was, yeah, 94. That's right.

Speaker: Man, I'll tell you this. I'll tell you this. d You know how we've got that Punisher story that's the Bargain Basement, No Hope, and Crime Alley?

Speaker: yep This is is Timu to kill a legend.

Speaker: It really is. because Because it's Bruce Wayne. He he finds himself kind of like back in time. ah And there's this thing about Bruce like bruce died

Speaker: Instead of Batman. Yeah. or it says Instead of Thomas and Martha. And so ah it's it's all Ghost of Christmas Future.

Speaker: in in like Very much in the in the style of Pickle Legend. But not as good. Because it's Chuck Dixon.

Speaker: It is a... It's an A-plus art... ah A plus art, C plus writing, a minus idea. I mean, yeah. like The notion of like let's figure out a way to make it so that it was an anonymous criminal and not Joe Chill. i like Great.

Speaker: I think it's weird to take the approach of... we're not goingnna We're not going to just say, like oh, Batman never found the guy who killed his parents.

Speaker: Which is kind of what they would eventually do. like that you know You know how continuity is. but Sure. ah But to be like, yeah actually, Batman was wrong about it.

Speaker: Because if there's... look I'm not saying Batman can't be wrong. I prefer it when he's not wrong, because he's Batman. But if there's one thing he shouldn't be wrong about... it it it certainly complicates things when he showed his face to Joe Chill, which... it directly led to him being killed by other ah mobsters. Yeah.

Speaker: Well, that's it with that's not quite how it goes down and In the post-crisis version. Because again, Batman Year 2 has the Reaper in it and all kinds of stuff is going on.

Speaker: Right, yeah. oh But yeah. I think it's weird for Batman to like but that meant to get zero-houred into being wrong about it.

Speaker: And being like, damn, I made a mistake.

Speaker: Alright, where do we say this one goes? Like... In the thousands? Well, again, I think it's a pretty good comic. Like, you know, for all of the shit I have talked and will continue to talk about Chuck Dixon,

Speaker: he he was a reliable hand. This is a perfectly readable comic. If we're going to ding for Monty Julep, we got to ding for he was on the junk. He was on the smack. I like it when they call it smack. I feel like they don't do that anymore.

Speaker: Yeah. oh I do also like Batman being like trapped in the past, and so he doesn't have the Batmobile, so he just like takes the Wayne's car.

Speaker: Yep. Yep. So he's just driving around in a car? Like with the seatbelt on? With the cops pursuing, yeah. You got gotta your seatbelt, man.

Speaker: and And that car, even by the time this issue was coming out, is from 50 years ago. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: What do you think ah the Waynes would have driven Batman would have probably been born in the late 90s or around the year 2000.

Speaker: So what are the Waynes driving 2008?

Speaker: Wait, he would have been born in the year 2000? Well, the Silver Age, ah Batman's age, was 29. Like, the reason we have Dark Knight Returns is because... joe would have been born in like He would have been born in, like, 97. Like, 97, 98, yeah. Yeah, okay. So we'll say, like, 2005?

Speaker: What are the Wayans riding around in? I mean... i don't know, like a Jaguar? you You don't think they got an SUV?

Speaker: They could have a Land Rover, I guess. yeah Or if they had a smart car?

Speaker: I would say Land Rover, maybe. yeah Maybe. that RAV4? Yeah. At 1000, we have Quasar number 17 with buried alien.

Speaker: at one thousand we have quasar number seventeen with the buried alien

Speaker: I think this is... God, um Matt, I don't know. You make the call. I mean, we have seven soldiers in Tales from the Bully Pulpit at 1005 and 1006. I think this is below those. Okay, yeah, that's fair. That's fair.

Speaker: It's tough. It's tough. I don't think it's as good as Calvin Hobbes nailing the table. That's a 1034. Okay. 1100, we have Avengers Academy and Thunderbolts crossover.

Speaker: Scared Straight. It's probably better than that. okay ah hard Detective Comics' Heart of a Vampire is at 1096. Okay.

Speaker: Batman Sword of Azrael is at 1093.

Speaker: It's probably exactly as good as Sword of Azrael. I would agree, yeah.

Speaker: Batman Spider-Man New Age Dawning is at 1094. That's another Graham Nolan joint.

Speaker: So we're in the neighborhood. Yeah, I think i think maybe between those two. I think right below Sword of Azrael. So the new number 1094 is now Detective Comics... Number 768 or 678. Sorry.

Speaker: What's the title of this story? Yesterday is gone. Yesterday is gone. But yesterday is plural, not possessive.

Speaker: Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker: And I'll just put in parentheses zero hour.

Speaker: Okay, that has got to be it for this Every Story Ever Special. We gave you a little extra on this one. ah We'll be back in May with more ranking of comic book stories. So come back for that.

Speaker: In the meantime, support us on Patreon. Get us to 500 patrons. Make talent show happen. Patreon.com slash WarRocketAjax is where you can do that.

Speaker: Our email address is warrocketpodcast at gmail.com. um That's where you can send every story of our list or listener questions or drop us a line about anything else you want to let us know about, including whether you want to sponsor the show.

Speaker: We're on Tumblr, warrocketpodcast.tumblr.com. We're on bluesky, warrocketajax.com there. We have a Discord. If you want to join our Discord, ask us nicely for an invitation and we will get you one. And you can join there, be part of that community of War Rocket Ajax fans.

Speaker: Our website is warrocketajax.com and as every episode of the show that we've ever done, warrocketwiki.com is the fan run repository of all the information you could want to or need about this show, War Rocket Ajax. It even has the list of all of our Mario Princess rankings.

Speaker: Is that on there now? It's on there now, yes. Good.

Speaker: If you want to find me and my stuff, go to mattdwilson.net to find links to my comics, my books, my other podcasts, and my social medias. Chris, where can people find you? Everybody can find me by going to the-isb.com. That is my website, and it has links to things that I've written, and links where you can hire me to write things for you so that I will no longer be unemployed.

Speaker: And you should do that.

Speaker: Thanks for listening, everybody. As I said, we'll be back in May with another Every Story Ever special. And in the meantime, we'll be doing regular War Rocket Ajax episodes every single week.

Speaker: So come back for those.

Speaker: Bye.