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Every Story Ever: March 2026
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Time to rank more stories? You know it! And we even get one this time that cracks the top 100!
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Transcript
Introduction to Zencaster and Podcast Format
00:00:00
Speaker
This show is recorded using Zencaster. If you are a podcaster, or you want to be a podcaster, and you want to be able to record remotely, you can do so using Zencaster. They also have hosting options, and you can let them know that we sent you. Follow the link in our show notes, or in the episode description, and sign up for an account on Zencaster now to start recording your own podcast.
Overview of Every Story Ever List
00:00:28
Speaker
Clientist.
00:00:35
Speaker
We have a list on our website, warrocketajax.com, called Every Story Ever. What we're doing is we're taking lists. we're doing is we're taking
00:00:46
Speaker
from our listeners of three comic book stories, and then we are placing those stories on the list from best to worst comic book stories of all time.
00:01:00
Speaker
Hello, everybody, and welcome to the War Rocket Ajax Every Story, Every Special for March 2026. My name is Matt Wilson.
00:01:11
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Chris Sims is here with me. Hello, Matt. And what do we do on this show? We rank comic books on a giant list from best to worst.
00:01:26
Speaker
Chris, would you like to give our listeners an update, a state of the list?
00:01:38
Speaker
Matt, I can do that. I just got a notification of Yeah, I was going
Managing and Updating the Comic List
00:01:45
Speaker
to... I waited until we were on the recording.
00:01:50
Speaker
but like Give us a little list, and then I'll say what I just got notification. Okay, because i I didn't know what order you wanted to tackle these things in. The list, as it stands, as we have been building for 10 years, over 10 years now, has 1,696 comics on it.
00:02:08
Speaker
ah Which means that our midpoint, Identity Crisis at the bottom, Spider-Man, ah the final chapter, is at the top, um The mid-comic would be what? Number 848? Is half of that? So, at the midpoint of the list. And again, keep in mind, it's top-heavy list.
00:02:33
Speaker
What did I say? 848? That is what you said. At 848, we have the Ron Mars Doc Shainer Adventures of Superman story. At 849, we have Hergรฉ's Tonton. and um The Blue Lotus.
00:02:50
Speaker
couple of pretty good comics. I would i would stress that this is a top-heavy list. Blue Lotus got some stuff in it. But it's good. But it's good. like it it is it is It's got some stuff in it.
00:03:04
Speaker
There's a part of our list where it's like, I mean, it's good, but it's got some stuff in it. Yeah, I mean, like that's that is an example of a comic that would be like 300 places higher.
00:03:16
Speaker
But it's got some stuff in it. Yeah, the same goes for Lone Wolf and Cub, which maybe we should have ranked higher. but Well, haven't reread Lone Wolf and Cub, and I've got to say it does kick ass pretty hard.
00:03:29
Speaker
We do have to merely chip away at the marble. it We do not. does have some stuff in it. It does have some stuff in it. I'll tell you what else has some stuff in it, Matt.
00:03:41
Speaker
Please. And that is the website, SmokeyMountainKnifeWorks.com. Now, Matt, I regret to inform
00:03:49
Speaker
I regret to inform you that someone did, in fact, send me $30 explicitly so I would buy this sword. How dare they?
00:04:01
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but what You know what that is? You know what that person is? An enabler. Yes.
00:04:09
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ah In case some people listening to this don't listen to the regular War Rocket Ajax show, we we rate swords sometimes on that show. And we got a sword that is like the K-Bar military knife. It's so fucking dumb. It sucks.
00:04:26
Speaker
But it's a whole sword. It's like a katana version of that knife. ah And um yeah, it sucks. And ed you bought one. Yes. Now, what this means...
00:04:38
Speaker
is that if I get a further $30, I will buy one and send it to you against your will. um Don't do that, please. Don't do that, everybody. Don't don't do that.
00:04:53
Speaker
Matt, I know you don't want me to. And as your friend, I don't want to do it. But as your comedy partner. Yeah, it is funny. It's really funny. It's really funny. Here's what I'll say. Give Chris $30, but explicitly dictate that it cannot be to buy me that K-Martana.
00:05:18
Speaker
Deal? We'll see. We'll see what happens.
Challenges of Comic List Management
00:05:21
Speaker
We'll see what happens. Okay, we've done the state of the list. ah We've said what we do on the show. Let's take a list, Chris.
00:05:30
Speaker
And just so people know, the lists I am currently reading are from approximately two calendar years ago. Okay.
00:05:43
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This list from Seth Finkelstein, the email is dated April 23rd, 2024. So so that's that's where we're at. That's where Coffee Cup is at.
00:05:55
Speaker
I just want to let people know that's about where we are in the list progression. So that's where we're at. I just want to let people know that because, you know, if you send in a list and even if you're a line stepper our Patreon you might have to wait a while ah for your list to get read on the show, ah but please do keep sitting in lists. um Other note, if I missed your list at some point, which I may have done, ah it is it is somewhat difficult to keep up with um everything and keep everything in line, um especially as ah my mind continues to... um
00:06:32
Speaker
wither away. um so, um, if you send in a list and I missed it, just let me know politely, let me know. And I'll try to get to it, get back to it.
00:06:43
Speaker
Um, i'm I'm doing my best here. ah cut me Please cut me some slack. ah We do not have like a really like streamlined system and lots of people working on this. This is me pulling lists from my email.
00:06:57
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ah So um please ah give me some grace is all I ask. All right. Here's this list from Seth Finkelstein, Chris.
Debate on Ranking 'Fall of the Mutants'
00:07:06
Speaker
Okay. It is Fall of the Mutants.
00:07:12
Speaker
Here's my question about this. Mm-hmm. This is three distinct parts of Fall of the Mutants from three different titles. Okay. Do you think we should rank those individually, or make Fall of the Mutants all just one entry on the list?
00:07:34
Speaker
Would you believe that I have not read Fall the Mutants? Seth was said he could guarantee that we've read this. I haven't, actually.
00:07:46
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This is after, like, ah i mean, Dallas, Australia, yeah that's after i i not not like tapped out, but just like I had kind of like read 10 years, like 10 or 12 years worth of Claremont X-Men at that point. And I was like, I'm good for now. I just never have gone back to it. Now, I will say that goes ah between Uncanny, X-Factor and New Mutants. And two of those books were written by Claremont and X-Factor was written by Louise Simonson. So I would say it would count as one story.
00:08:24
Speaker
New Mutants was written by Louise Simonson. Oh, was it New Mutants? Okay. yeah That's right, that's right, sorry. Yes, I had those flipped in my head. oh And plus there's a tie-in in Captain America that we have read. We have read Captain America 339.
00:08:43
Speaker
Yes, we we read one part of Fall of the Mutants. Yes, with Famine. That's right, we did not read our best... ah But yes, it was Uncanny X-Men 225-227, New Mutants X-Factor I have never read any of those either. Seth, whatever we did to represent to you that we've read Fall of the Mutants, I apologize.
00:09:08
Speaker
I mean, I probably said something about the events of Fall the Mutants. ah Because, you know i mean i've like you know, the X-Men die in Dallas and they go to Australia for a couple of years.
00:09:19
Speaker
Yeah. Like, that's what happens. It's got Apocalypse in it. This might be why i don't know what the fuck Apocalypse's powers are. We had that conversation on the regular show as well.
00:09:31
Speaker
So this this might be a... That should have been an indication that I have not read this story, but I actually have not read Fall the Mutants. I should. It is a cornerstone X-Men story.
00:09:44
Speaker
Yes, yes. Uh, probably as should I, I just, it's, it's, it's in that period of X-Men that I just, I, yeah, I i was not in, i was not locked in at that
Discussion on X-Men Story Gaps
00:09:58
Speaker
point in time. dick Well, Matt, you were, I believe, five years old.
00:10:03
Speaker
Correct. Uh, but like, it's not even like one of the books I've made is sure to catch up on, you know, to read later. Um, okay. Uh, sorry, Seth. Um,
00:10:15
Speaker
Here's our next list. It's from Patrick O'Duffy, the boss dog. The boss dog. Perfect time for Coffee Cup to chime in. yeah ah These are some Bronze Age DC stories slash runs.
00:10:29
Speaker
Okay. First, Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes, numbers 241 to 245. Earth War by Paul Levitz and James Sherman slash Joe Staten.
00:10:41
Speaker
The Legion fight an intergalactic war involving all their major villains. ah Yeah, man. I have read that one. You know I've read that one.
00:10:54
Speaker
I've read a lot Legion superheroes, Matt. Yeah, you have. i know I'm glad you have because it's one of my things that I just never got into. so There's a guy in this story named Garlak who definitely sounds like he should be a Dragon Ball character.
Ranking the Superboy and Legion Stories
00:11:12
Speaker
Well, yes, because his name is almost Garlic. Yeah, and there there is a Garlic Jr. in Dragon Ball. there is There is a Garlic Jr. in Dragon Ball. ah
00:11:24
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But this is Garlack. This is Garlack Sr. Yeah. Yeah, man, it's pretty good. It's pretty good. I mean, you know, there's a reason Paul Levitz was like like the Legion guy for the eighties like This is 78, so ah like you know this kind of paves the way for him and Giffen to be the Legion guys.
00:11:55
Speaker
oh you know Coming off of ah of Little Jimmy Shooter, who started writing that book when he was 12 years old, in an incredible...
00:12:10
Speaker
oh up to the story of comics that is that I both love and I'm also like, seriously?
00:12:19
Speaker
i Imagine! Imagine being 12 years old and writing into DC Comics and being like, I could do this shit better than you, and they're like, bet. Incredible that DC Comics got no ah labor law pushback on that.
00:12:39
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, man, I don't, I mean, he was freelancing, I guess, so I don't know how they got that one. yeah ah But yeah, this is, I mean, this is this is what Bronze Age ah Legion, this is a very good representation of Bronze Age Legion. It's got, like, big space stuff, it's got, like,
00:13:03
Speaker
alien invasions and a ton of villains to match the fact that it's got a ton of heroes and everybody's dressed all sexy. Because in the 70s, the Legion started dressing sexy.
00:13:16
Speaker
because Because of Dave Cockrum. And also because Jim Shooter was kind of a pervert. But he was like 20, so. Well, he was gone by this point, so. Yeah, but he he was around when they first got slutty.
00:13:30
Speaker
Well, yeah, because right because he hit puberty and he was like, yeah what if? Yeah, he has that he has that wild oh interview that he did in like a fanzine where he talks about like who's fucking in the Legion.
00:13:46
Speaker
i am right. i i'm i' I remember this. yeah It's shocking to go back. like i I need everybody to know that i that what I meant was slutty brackets positive. Yeah.
00:14:00
Speaker
But Jim Shooter had some thoughts and feelings about Dream Girl. That... Okay. Okay, bud.
00:14:11
Speaker
That's what happens when when you're a man raised by comic books.
00:14:16
Speaker
ah Yeah, this is a good story. I like it. Levitt's giving... Not giving, but Levitt's doing Legion. Got good stuff. And Joe Staten.
00:14:28
Speaker
Yeah. And a big intergalactic war. James Sherman. ah Also Joe Staten. yeah I guess Joe Staten did some of the later issues, probably. it's it's i mean It's a lot. I would not recommend this if you've never read The Legion of Superheroes before, but I can say that about 90% of Legion stories. like People have asked me where to start with The Legion, and I'm like, Adventure Comics 247, bud.
00:14:56
Speaker
Like, it's cut there's kind of one on-ramp to these characters. They've tried to make a bunch, but none of them have taken. Yeah, I don't i don't think it works when they... they i don't think rebooting the Legion works, because... And I say that as someone who really likes the post-Zero Hour Legion.
00:15:24
Speaker
um Like the the the Wade Kitson first time reboot Legion. The Wade Kitson second time reboot Legion is also pretty good. but ah But yeah, I really like those characters.
00:15:37
Speaker
But I feel like they mean a lot more if you have that grounding. And also, they're some of the most fun comics out there. Anyway,
00:15:48
Speaker
it's good stuff. I like it. ah It's got the subs in it. I love the subs. ah this is This has got to be all you. So, so i am a sucker number on this one for every time. Like the joke characters are like, but like, like really try hard and, and, and get in the action improve themselves a little bit. I'm a sucker for that. I don't like it when they do that. And they're like unceremoniously killed off because they suck.
00:16:18
Speaker
But I really like it when they're like, all right, all right, color kid, let's do this for, but you know, For the Legion. Let's go. That's just good.
00:16:30
Speaker
There's a lot of characters in this book.
00:16:35
Speaker
Cosmic Boy's costume. In the 70s.
00:16:39
Speaker
That's a wild suit. That might be the wildest costume there is, Matt. i don't even i don't even know what it looks like. He's nude. okay And then he's wearing boots, gloves, trunks, and then the trunks come up with like panels that basically oh only cover his nipples.
00:17:08
Speaker
like Oh, I think I i think i see it on a cover. is Is he on the cover of 243? I think probably. Probably. He's one of these one of the founding members. so Okay.
00:17:23
Speaker
Let's see. 243. Yeah, that's him. That's him. Okay. he is nude He is That is a wild costume for sure. Yeah. That's that Mike Grill costume.
00:17:37
Speaker
I mean, it's it's kind of progressive, actually. Like, it's It looks like a lady's swimsuit. Yeah, no, it's like Vampirella would wear it. Yeah. He's a gentleman in the 30th century wearing Vampirella's costume, because it's the future, baby. Yeah. That's just what we're like now.
00:17:57
Speaker
Gender is meaningless. Gender is meaningless. It's like the yeah the scant... What was it? What is it? the the the the skirt... uniform on Star Trek. Which which is which is gender neutral.
00:18:12
Speaker
Yeah. Men and women wear the scant. ah
00:18:22
Speaker
Give me a number for this this Legion story. oh I mean... ah my I'm still kind of like looking at the midpoint of the list. I think that's probably where it goes. It's not my favorite Legion story. It's not the best. It's neither like the best Levitz Legion story, great darkness saga. Uh, nor is it like my, like it's it's in the transitional period of the Legion becoming X-Men.
00:18:49
Speaker
Well, I guess it's kind of like post the Legion becoming X-Men cause 78, but, oh Legion was X-Men almost before the X-Men were the X-Men.
00:19:02
Speaker
but Yeah, arguably. Very shortly thereafter. Really similar in many ways. ah Yeah, we've got Great Darkness at 172. That's a good-ass comic, and this is not going that high.
00:19:14
Speaker
um Yeah, I mean, like it's but it is good. It is good. ah I don't think it's as good as ah X of Swords. That's an 853. Okay.
00:19:27
Speaker
I don't think it's as good as... don't think it's as good as the Saiyan Saga. That's at 863. I
00:19:39
Speaker
do think it's better than The War of Jokes and Riddles. yeah i We struggled reading that one. We really did. And i still I don't know if that's in the right place, but... Yeah, but the list is the list.
00:19:51
Speaker
The list is the list, yeah. I am going to say it is I'm going to it's better than Amethyst Princess of Gemworld. Okay.
00:20:03
Speaker
And probably not as good as Thor fighting Hercules and turning it into Mystery Annual number one. Okay, so that makes it number what? Yes. ah Number 877.
Exploring Commandee and Kirby's Influence
00:20:13
Speaker
877. new number 877 is Superboy and Legion of Superheroes.
00:20:15
Speaker
eight hundred and seventy seven so the new number eight hundred and seventy seven is super boyy in the legion of superheroes
00:20:27
Speaker
Earth War. Is a lot to write out. Earth War. And that is issue numbers 241 to 245. Do you think Earth War should get the Mr. Graves treatment?
00:20:43
Speaker
i i don't know that it does I don't know that the Mr. Graves voice is the right voice for Earth War. That's what I think Earth War should sound like. You think Earth War gets Earth War?
00:20:55
Speaker
Earth War. Yeah, that's what I think Earth Wars is. Welcome to Earth War, ladies and gentlemen. That's right. It's like Smash TV. All right.
00:21:07
Speaker
Next on the list is ah honestly a book that I can't believe isn't already on the list.
00:21:16
Speaker
It's Commandee, numbers 1 through 20 by Jack Kirby. Tell me the last boy on Earth. That's him. Damn, we do we do not have Commandee on the list.
00:21:27
Speaker
We do not have Commandee on the list. Now, this is just issues 1 through 20. It's not the whole series of 59 issues, which an argument could be made.
00:21:41
Speaker
Although, I guess it's not Kirby after that, right? Yeah. it's it's some it's It's different creative teams after number 20. So, okay, that that makes sense then. Yeah, yeah.
00:21:54
Speaker
It's, I mean, you know, like how it's it's like how the New Gods, like, there's like a 10-year gap between issues of New Gods, because when they brought it back, they were just like oh, this New Gods number 7.
00:22:14
Speaker
ah it's it It is still by Kirby after 21. Yeah. Yeah, it it is. At some point, it it ceases to be by Kirby, but I don't know where that is.
00:22:25
Speaker
But I'll tell you what, man. I'll tell you something about Commandee. He's the last boy on Earth. That's what is true of him, yes.
00:22:37
Speaker
he matt he fights He fights robots. And cops. And robot cops. He's got some animal friends. He's got some animal friends.
00:22:48
Speaker
the The world AD after disaster is wild. And it's like, I love it because it's like, weve we've talked before about how Kirby's influences are not like hard to see.
00:23:06
Speaker
Like, you know, he was a dude who read, you know, watch movies, read popular mechanics, read popular science. ah Just kind of like, you know, did things that ah that but hit with him. Like, you know, what's a mother box? Well, it's six motherboards.
00:23:21
Speaker
You build a box out of boards. Build a mother box out of motherboards. six times Six times more powerful than any computer we've got.
00:23:30
Speaker
So you go into Comandy and you're like, is this him doing Planet of the Apes? ah I mean, it's what it feels like for sure, right? Yeah, because I mean, he's got but you know he's got the Statue of Liberty on the cover of the first issue.
00:23:43
Speaker
and
00:23:46
Speaker
And you know there there are guerrilla people and tiger people. i love that there's tiger people. love the tiger people, yeah. And like one one human dude who is also a living nuclear bomb.
00:24:00
Speaker
And then you get to Commandee's continent, which is North America. um and You're just like, oh no, this we don't know what this is.
00:24:14
Speaker
It absolutely is Kirby trying to do Planet of the Apes. it is ah here Here is the story um from ah DC Comics' year-by-year Visual Chronicle.
00:24:27
Speaker
okay DC tried to get the license to publish Planet of the Apes. Carmine and Infantino tried to get the license to publish Planet of the Apes. Right. But Marvel got the license.
00:24:39
Speaker
Yes. So Carmine Infantino was just like, hey, Jack, can you just make something that's kind of like Planet of the Apes? That's the origin story of Commandee.
00:24:51
Speaker
Yeah. And so you see that. He hadn't seen the movies. Yeah. Kirby hadn't seen the movies. Correct.
00:25:01
Speaker
So then you get to that last page in the first issue where it's a map, and there is like, you know, Right in the middle of what we know as North America, guerrilla communes. Got it.
00:25:14
Speaker
But you got the Tiger Empire on the East Coast, the undersea New York rat network, the lion tribes. All of Mexico is a wild human preserve. Then there's the tracking site city of the nuclear people. Okay.
00:25:29
Speaker
Then you've got Monster Lake, which is all the Great Lakes, are now one lake with monsters. And Canada? Oh, Canada. That's the fear-ridden territory inhabited by hostile fandoms, the Dominion of the Devils, and the Strange Fire area.
00:25:46
Speaker
And the mountainous new continent above Canada. Yes. yeah And then there's also intelligent killer whale raiders and leopard sea pirates. So it's like, hell yeah.
00:25:57
Speaker
that Like... Where's where's the where's like the serious prestige Planet of the Apes style reboot with all that in it?
00:26:10
Speaker
don't give a shit about Caesar. Show me more of Comandy and his hot air balloon.
00:26:18
Speaker
oh It's also really weird that Comandy is also at Adventure Time. Or rather, at Adventure Time is Comandy. Yeah. Like...
00:26:30
Speaker
Wild stuff, dude. Okay, so the the transition from Commandee, like in Commandee to like away from the full Kirby influence is kind of like weirdly ah nebulous.
00:26:49
Speaker
Because around issue 38, Jerry Conway starts being credited as the writer.
00:26:57
Speaker
But Kirby's still doing so the art on it. I cannot imagine Jerry Conway and Jack Kirby working together. Not because, i I mean, you know, we love Jerry Conway. Friend of the show. Friend of the show.
00:27:12
Speaker
ah One of our the guests I was most like nervous to have on because he's such a ah a prominent creator of so many things I love. But he's also kind of Stan's boy.
00:27:25
Speaker
You know?
00:27:28
Speaker
And Roy Thomas got it bad. Roy Thomas got incinerated in the blast radius of Jack Kirby being Madison. don't know, maybe Jack Kirby was like, no, I've never met him.
00:27:45
Speaker
I don't know him.
00:27:49
Speaker
i'm I'm curious to know why Patrick decided that number 20 was the cutoff. Well, I mean, number 20 is like when he goes to Chicago and fights robots and cops.
00:28:03
Speaker
And robot cops. Yeah.
00:28:07
Speaker
like First, I'll borrow this pseudo-cop's pistol. I hope he's too busy to notice. Get him, Commandee.
00:28:16
Speaker
I guess it is kind of like the end of the first like big Commandee meta story.
00:28:27
Speaker
um it ited It gets tied into the broader DC Universe number 29. Yeah.
00:28:37
Speaker
Well, I mean, it's always kind of... When's the Superman issue? I think that's number 20. or No, the Superman issue is in Chicago. The the Superman issue, or the the number 20 is in Chicago. The Superman issue is where I think it is really tied into...
00:28:56
Speaker
oh I think that's 29. I think that's number 29. that's a good one. That is a good one, yeah. Yeah, where you find Superman's indestructible costume. Yeah, there it is.
00:29:07
Speaker
Yeah. Like, but when they talk about the Mighty One, hell yeah, that shit's good. Well, okay. they start A new chapter numbering starts with number 21. Okay. Okay.
00:29:24
Speaker
okay So... i mean, number 20 does end with, like, Comandy alone. Yeah. Like, you know, like, no companions kind of like, wandering off into the sunset. You know, he'll he'll reunite with Ben Boxer later on. but Yeah.
00:29:42
Speaker
I think we can... I guess we can stick with what Patrick has here and and it do numbers 1 through 20 as the rating. Although, like, part of me wants to just rate all of Kirby Comandy together.
00:29:56
Speaker
It's just hard to kind of determine where that starts. and or what Well, it's easy to determine where it starts. Commandee number one. It's tough to determine where it ends. Yeah.
00:30:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:10
Speaker
I don't know. I feel like we either have to rate all of Commandee together, or we have to rate every issue individually. ah Well, when does Kirby leave?
00:30:25
Speaker
I feel like we could we could, like, when does he like actually leave the book? Because i think that's where we can just say, like, okay, that's the cutoff.
00:30:38
Speaker
Hmm. Kirby's still drawing it by number 40.
00:30:47
Speaker
Although Jerry Conway is, okay. Okay. He's gone by 43. That is Chick Stone and Mike Royer doing the art.
00:30:59
Speaker
Two Kirby guys? Yeah.
00:31:04
Speaker
Like, now I want to hear like the whole story of what happened to Kirby on Commandee. Well, here's here's what's weird. is like
00:31:15
Speaker
The Commandee omnibus that I have, Volume 1 is 1 to 20. And Volume 2 is 21 to 40. Yeah, he's his his last issue on Art is 40. Yeah.
00:31:30
Speaker
So let's just we'll we'll just be ranking Commandee Archives Volume 1 then. Okay, great. It's good. It's not my favorite Kirby, but it is good. i would I'm going to say, i um I don't know how much of the second omnibus I've read I know I've read that first omnibus.
00:31:54
Speaker
ah I do think like it gets it loses something when it's not all just pure Kirby voice. um But that first burst of pure Kirby is really good. Okay, can rank 1 through 20.
00:32:14
Speaker
we can rank one through twenty ah Where do you think that goes? I...
00:32:25
Speaker
i mean i i prefer other Kirby works. We have OMAC Volume 1 at 255. I like OMAC better. OMAC is some really concentrated Jack Kirby. Yeah. it Eight issues.
00:32:42
Speaker
Pure Kirby. yeah And of course you know that in the future... in the future If OMAC fails, we get the Commandee timeline.
00:32:54
Speaker
Otherwise, we get the Sandman timeline. The Kirby Sandman timeline. Right. Because Jed and Commandee are the same person. Right.
00:33:07
Speaker
Which I think is all grafted on after the fact. I don't think Kirby was like, this guy's that guy. ah But yeah, I don't think it's as good as OMAC. Do Double Dinosaur on the list?
00:33:19
Speaker
I think we do. Yeah, Devil Dinosaur we have at 308. I just went back and reread Devil Dinosaur the other day because I was looking for a specific panel of Devil Dinosaur just like stomping the shit out a triceratops.
00:33:32
Speaker
Devil Dinosaur fucking rules. That's that's light's the thing about Kirby. is that like The purer you you start with the concepts, the better it is.
00:33:44
Speaker
Commandee? Last boy. Moonboy? First boy. Do you think it's better than the Kirby Captain America?
00:33:56
Speaker
No. probably Probably not. The kept the second Captain America run is really good. Well, the third Captain America run, I guess. At 3.30, we have the Lee Kirby and Steranko Captain America.
00:34:09
Speaker
Yeah, that's... That's the second Captain America. That's the second Captain in America. Yeah.
00:34:18
Speaker
And the third Captain America is Captain America and the Falcon. Bicentennial battles and all that. That's the Mad Bomb stuff, right? Yeah. yeah ah And Mad Bomb we have at 144. That shit owns.
00:34:30
Speaker
Yeah. So is this better than the Lee Kirby Starenko Captain at America? Probably not. Because that's also extremely good. Yeah.
00:34:42
Speaker
I don't think it's as good as Ride at Xavier's and Murder at the Mansion, which we have at 414 415. But, let's see, at 500 we have Kate Beaton's strong female characters. That one's pretty good.
00:34:58
Speaker
oh i think it's better than Usagi Ojimbo Senso, which is extremely good. That's at 509. Okay, but not as good as Return of Bruce Wayne.
00:35:09
Speaker
Damn, man, Return Bruce Wayne's really good. It's really good. Nah, he can stop the bleeding in time.
00:35:17
Speaker
Weirdly owes some stuff to Commandee if I've been real. It's weird that that doesn't have Commandee. It does have Anthro. yeah It doesn't have Commandee.
00:35:30
Speaker
oh Yeah, let's put it let's put it at ah at the new 509. Okay. okay The number 509. Commandee numbers 1 through 20.
00:35:43
Speaker
All right.
00:35:46
Speaker
Okay.
Analyzing DC's Beowulf Comic
00:35:47
Speaker
Finally, on Patrick's list, Beowulf numbers one through six by Michael Uslin and Ricardo Viamonte. Hey, did you know that Beowulf fought Satan, aliens, and Dracula? I did know that.
00:36:00
Speaker
Matt, I believe i am the reason Patrick knows that. Probably. I love that that DC Beowulf comic because it's very clearly like, okay, Marvel has Conan, which is a huge hit. Conan's what, like 71?
00:36:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:27
Speaker
70, Conan's pretty early. I mean, it's it's Roy, you know, Barry Windsor-Smouth. And so DC's like, can we get a Conan? And then they're like, well, anybody can do Beowulf. Beowulf's in the public domain.
00:36:40
Speaker
Who's in the public domain? Yeah. And so they do Beowulf. And the thing is, Beowulf fights like three guys. And we kind of know that.
00:36:52
Speaker
So what do you do? What do you do after that? And oh what you do is he fights the devil and ah and Dracula.
00:37:05
Speaker
more public yeah of All your favorite public domain characters. Yeah. yeah Not Grendel. ah i get I guess this is post-Grendel Beowulf.
00:37:17
Speaker
ah He's going straight for straight for Satan. Yeah, I mean, like there's there's ah like a text page in like where a letter column would be in that first issue. Yeah.
00:37:28
Speaker
oh where they're like, Beowulf? DC doing Beowulf? But that thing's educational. An epic poem we all had to read for junior high school English class. Don't tell me DC's doing Classics Illustrated.
00:37:43
Speaker
No, not Classics Illustrated, but real live action and adventure stories. Let's talk about the phrase real live there. but ah What do you think that means, Alan Asherman?
00:37:58
Speaker
Want to talk about a wild costume? DC Beowulf. Yeah, man. That dude's wearing a corset. Yeah, gotta keep everything in place.
00:38:08
Speaker
He's gotta to keep everything in place. I'll tell you, like the the far future and the distant past when everyone knew Ginger was fake.
00:38:20
Speaker
Just fully a corset. oh i I wish these comics were good. because they Because these covers do look good. like These covers look like i mean they look like fucking what they are, which is great value Conan.
00:38:39
Speaker
But like, Conan was good. Like, 70s Conan comics? That's Roy's best stuff, man.
00:38:50
Speaker
um I know there are some people who like other Roy Thomas comics, but I could not name them.
00:38:58
Speaker
But yeah, man, he does fight Dracula in number four. Beowulf. Already running out of ideas. Already running out of ideas or already having the best idea?
00:39:10
Speaker
I mean, ah you know, potato potato. I mean, I think it was Christopher Hastings who said, Dracula could be in any comic, so you have to justify why Dracula is not in a comic.
00:39:23
Speaker
The design of Dracula in this comic is... bonkers Yeah, well, Matt, you know that Dracula was ah more of like ah more of like an an Arab stereotype than anything else.
00:39:38
Speaker
Wowie, wow. Yeah, that that tracks with Dracula, right? You've read the book, right? Yeah, no, like, like Dracula is is like Ra's al Ghul, kind of, in this.
00:39:57
Speaker
Yeah, man. I wish these comics were better than they are, because they're not great, but they are like like they're comics that are way more fun to talk about than they are to read.
00:40:08
Speaker
it' like It's nuts to think about what Michael Uslin went on to do. Yeah, man. One of the most important people in superhero media.
00:40:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:25
Speaker
wild. ah I like it and there's one issue of this it number six where ah someone is casting an evil spell and the spell is happy happy marriage, Bob and Cindy backwards. Yeah.
00:40:51
Speaker
so
00:40:56
Speaker
Oh, man. That's great. That's in the last issue of Beowulf, baby. That's great. Yeah. So happy marriage, Bob and Cindy. but Play that backwards.
00:41:10
Speaker
ah Okay. This is another one for you to to to rank, my man.
00:41:21
Speaker
I mean...
00:41:24
Speaker
which quadrupled Quadruple digits? I wish they were good. Yeah. I wish they were good. i i wish I wish they were better than average, because they're not bad.
00:41:38
Speaker
At least as far as I remember. Other than Dracula being a weird, like... Arabian Nights character. Yeah. It is it is ah troubling.
00:41:57
Speaker
Troubling's not the right word. But like it doesn't do it any favors to know how much this is. You know, conan the You know, we have Conan at home, and this is the Conan at home. Yeah, it's it's Conan at is what is Yeah.
00:42:18
Speaker
But you know, like like, sword and sorcery comics, man, they they were gonna be big. Sword and sorcery, that's what the people want, right? Well, here's six issues.
00:42:29
Speaker
Leading right up... ah Oh, yeah, this I think this is a DC implosion book. 76? Yeah. um Yeah, like, not bad, but... It's fine. i mean, it's like...
00:42:45
Speaker
they're so like Marvel is beating ass at sword and sorcery stuff in in this era. Because they've got Conan.
00:42:58
Speaker
They've got Tomb of Dracula, which does a lot of the same stuff. they've got They're about to start Star Wars, which you may have heard of. It's an indie film.
00:43:10
Speaker
ah But they got the adaptation and ah saved their company.
00:43:17
Speaker
oh
00:43:21
Speaker
All right. At number 1200, we have the first appearance of the demon. Or sorry, first Hitman. It's the demony demon annual number two, which the first appearance of Hitman.
00:43:32
Speaker
It's not that good. It's not that good. Okay. At 1250, we have ah Batman Knight's End.
00:43:44
Speaker
It's not that good. It's not that good. here's Here's what's wild is that whole thing in the beginning about how like, oh, Beowulf, that's just a comic we had to read for junior high. Well, not this one.
00:43:56
Speaker
And it's like, I cannot think of a ah comic that feels more like homework. Yeah. 1300 is Catwoman number 1 million.
00:44:07
Speaker
We're probably in the right neighborhood. Okay. All right. What's 1350?
00:44:14
Speaker
Ooh, 1350 is Lois Lane. I am curious black. um It's better than that, I think. Okay. Okay. Happy marriage, Bob and Cindy. um i Is it better than the the time Lois Lane got married to the devil?
00:44:35
Speaker
No, that's pretty good. That's at 1338.
00:44:40
Speaker
Okay. Punisher Suicide Run is kind of better than you think it is, even though it's also not very good. um well oh Well, you haven't read this, but you have read Spider-Man Return of the Goblin. i think it's I think it's right below Punisher Suicide Run.
00:44:56
Speaker
Okay. i can I can give it that. um So that is Beowulf DC Comics. Wait, do we we already have a Beowulf on here?
00:45:08
Speaker
Is it this? We have Beowulf number six, which is the last issue, which is at 1292. Oh, man.
00:45:20
Speaker
but no. Yeah. So ah that that issue is called who Labyrinth of the Grotto Minotaur.
00:45:32
Speaker
I think we could maybe just expand that entire thing to to contain... Just knock out the number six and put in... Now, do you think it should go that high?
00:45:46
Speaker
it's twelve Well, we're putting it at 1340. That's 1292.
00:45:51
Speaker
It's not that big a difference. All right. All right. Okay. Okay. Okay. well okay Let's... Can we delete the entry at 1292? And then put the entry in between Suicide Run and Return to the Goblin?
00:46:04
Speaker
I think we should do that, yes. Okay. Then let's do that. I usually go for the higher ranking, but I am i am i feel it is incumbent to rank the whole series correctly.
00:46:25
Speaker
So let me find... Okay, Beowulf number six. I feel like that Happy Marriage Bobinson, I feel like that was for Bob Wiejek. I don't know. Could have been. Could have been.
00:46:35
Speaker
All right. That's the list from Patrick.
00:46:40
Speaker
Our next list is from Isabel M.
The Crow Comic Analysis
00:46:46
Speaker
And this is comics that had movies based on them in the 90s. This is Isabel, the creator of the War Rocket Ajax Discord.
00:46:52
Speaker
That's right. First is The Crow, the first series by James O'Barr. Buddy, I've never read that.
00:47:06
Speaker
Like, I saw The Crow. And then was like, oh, this is based on comics? And then I went and like looked at the comics. and First of all, couldn't find them for a long time.
00:47:19
Speaker
Yeah, they were hard to find, as I as i recall. Yeah. ah And then by the time I looked at them, I was like, oh, that's kind of not my... well now Not my... J-O-Bars the Crow, not not my bag.
00:47:39
Speaker
um I don't think.
00:47:42
Speaker
So I have not read this. Okay, so what was the first Crow miniseries? I believe it was the 89 miniseries? ah There was a caliber press.
00:47:52
Speaker
Well, it first appeared in 88. Yes, there was a 1989 miniseries that was four issues.
00:48:02
Speaker
And the each issue was... The the the issue titles were Pain, Fear, Irony, and Despair. Yes. So there you go.
00:48:14
Speaker
But the first in-story appearance was in Calibur Presents number one.
00:48:21
Speaker
um I think they released a trade paperback of all of it. um But no, I've also never read The Crow. I've never read a page of Crow comics.
00:48:32
Speaker
Man, i'm I'm looking at this, and if you and I had a hard time with Grendel...
00:48:39
Speaker
Imagine if Grendel wasn't well-drawn. That's all me. no it's it's it's It's actually like for an 80s Black and White Boom comic, it's for an eighty s black and my boom boom comic it's phenomenally well-drawn. And there's definitely like something very stylistic going on here. like it's it's It's just not to the Matt Wagner level.
00:49:04
Speaker
Right. it's and it's not like... that I shouldn't say it's not well drawn because it certainly is. ah that There is a level of style that is in play with it. like in terms of like you know Just in terms of craft and like use of negative space and use of contrast like to to get things you know to set the mood actually is very well done.
00:49:35
Speaker
It is an 80s black and white boom comic and looks like an 80s black and white boom comic. Yeah. Except for without ninjas. Instead, it's just got the crow. Part of me wants to wants to read this just so we can directly compare it to Dawn.
00:49:55
Speaker
there I feel like there's a lot of Dawn... maybe like like Probably no plot similarity, but definitely some mood similarity.
00:50:06
Speaker
yeah i And some like dudes talking in poetry similarity. I have a feeling that fans of The Crow, of James W. Abar's The Crow, wouldn't appreciate it being ah being compared to...
00:50:27
Speaker
ah I don't know why it added a W to his name. I think it's just James O'Barr. J. O'Barr, yeah. yeah ah But i I don't know that they would appreciate it being compared to ah Dawn.
00:50:40
Speaker
I'd probably think Dawn was lesser. But I don't know, man. I feel like there there might be some some ah some some some overlap, some similarities.
00:50:52
Speaker
Some... ah You know... Some stuff that that makes them more similar than you might think. Yes. But I have not read it. ma ok This one might be a a catch-up candidate.
00:51:06
Speaker
Maybe. Maybe. ah Next on Isabelle's list is The Mask, the first series by John Arcudi and Doug Monke. I also never read this.
00:51:18
Speaker
But I did read a Mask series that like came out after the movie that was by Arcudi...
Exploring The Mask and Tank Girl Comics
00:51:25
Speaker
And I don't know if it was by Monkey or not, and I was very confused.
00:51:30
Speaker
Yeah, i did I had the same experience. I think... Well, I might have read, like, ah The Mask Strikes Back or something like that.
00:51:41
Speaker
o
00:51:44
Speaker
And I read i read ah ah Joker Mask, because that had an early comics appearance of Harley Quinn. Uh-huh.
00:51:54
Speaker
But yeah, like... i I remember being... If people have never read any of The Mask in comics, it was like so like heavily changed for the movie. like The basic concept is the same, but... I don't think he runs around in that in that yellow suit in the comic.
00:52:19
Speaker
No. Uh... as i I think that the comics are way more um violent than the movie is. Yes. that is That was my experience as a youngster. Yeah.
00:52:38
Speaker
ah no no Unless you want to talk about Mobile Armored Strike Command. Are the masked comics good? I'm not a John Arcudi guy. and i I'm not generally a Doug Monke guy either.
00:52:54
Speaker
um There is a guy in these comics that does look exactly like Paul Heyman.
00:53:02
Speaker
Who has looked functionally the same for the past 30 years. so ahhu like i I dig the art style of ah of those early mass comics.
00:53:17
Speaker
um I just never read them. I feel like that is another book like that was kind of hard to get your hands on. like I remember having like a passing interest in Masked Comics after the movie came out.
00:53:33
Speaker
But...
00:53:36
Speaker
Yeah, now, I believe the movie does have... i'm I'm looking through like some of the first issues now. like The movie has the bit where he does the balloon animals and turn like makes it a Tommy gun, right?
00:53:49
Speaker
Yes, that's in the movie, yes. Now, in the movie, does he then unload at point-blank range on two dudes fully murdering them with like gun bullets? I do not believe that. And there's like a lot of blood spray around? and that i i don't I don't believe that happens now. And then he like pulls his face off?
00:54:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think that got changed for the... Yeah, I think that got changed.
00:54:17
Speaker
I think that got changed. I think they... I think... The Masked No. 1 of 4 had some stuff in it that didn't make it to that movie that we all loved in the 7th grade.
00:54:31
Speaker
Yeah, I... ah Okay, listeners, let us know if the Masked Comics are worth reading and doing a catch-up on, because... ah That just never happened.
00:54:43
Speaker
i i Like Chris, I had an experience of trying to read some Mask comics after the movie came out and being very confused by what I read. i think the Mask is a cop in this.
00:54:57
Speaker
Is he? like i think he's like i think he's a cop who becomes a violante.
00:55:06
Speaker
Okay. Okay.
00:55:10
Speaker
Interesting. yeah
00:55:14
Speaker
i Yeah. i think i I think maybe the book that I read or like tried to read was The Mask Strikes Back. And
00:55:25
Speaker
I did not, like, it did not resemble the mask from the movie to me. Yeah, i I will say, um there was eventually, like,
00:55:37
Speaker
an Adventures of the Mask comic that was like in the the movie style. But... Like...
00:55:46
Speaker
They really biffed not having something out when that movie was a massive success. And also, that book was by a totally different creative team than the original Mask comics. Oh, Matt, I'm looking at The Mask Strikes Back. This is also the one I had.
00:56:04
Speaker
Yeah. like I remember trying to read it and being like, I don't know what this is. Yeah. like I don't know what like how the movie got based on like it was based on this.
00:56:21
Speaker
ah Because they didn't really resemble each other to me. Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:31
Speaker
Okay. Finally on Isabelle's list is Tank Girl. Whatever those early Alan Martin and J.B. Hewlett books were that you might have read. Buddy. Buddy.
00:56:44
Speaker
I never read those. I've read some Tank Girl comics, but I i couldn't tell you like a comprehensive story that I read. like it It was another thing where it was like, I saw the movie, I liked the movie, I went and read some Some comics after the fact, you know?
00:57:05
Speaker
ah Yeah, well, here's the thing about those comics. They don't have ah Naomi Watts as a nerd in them. Yeah. Or Ice-T.
00:57:19
Speaker
Yeah, I've never read Tank Girl. I like the movie, but I've never read Tank Girl.
00:57:28
Speaker
Sorry, Isabelle. 0 for 3. 0 for 3, Isabelle. i i You and Jolene can commiserate.
00:57:38
Speaker
i I read some Tank Girl, but maybe like a random issue somewhere. And it's certainly not a complete story. you Hey, what was it that had Something recently had like you know like a ah mask of loki
00:57:59
Speaker
that clearly someone thought was like part of mythology, but it's just from the mask. Oh, yeah. What was that?
00:58:10
Speaker
she oh it was It was God of War. It was God of War. It was God of War. It was the video game God of War. Yeah. Where it was like, this is Loki's mask.
00:58:21
Speaker
This is like that weird mask that Loki has that lets you warp reality. it's like that's not Boy, that's not a thing. That's just from the mask.
00:58:32
Speaker
that's it That's just from the mask, not from mythology. Which is wild, because like the rest of like the mythology stuff in that game is like so well-researched.
00:58:43
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, like like relationships between and his kids and stuff like that. Yeah. ah yeah but ah But man, they whiffed it on the val Loki's mask.
00:58:58
Speaker
it was It was specifically in God of War Ragnarok, I think. In the second game. Do you remember that part of the game where Kratos was like, smoking?
00:59:10
Speaker
Man, I wish he would say smoking. get that Get that voice actor who voices Kratos and say smoking? um That would be awesome. yeah Or ah a dude from ah from ah the West Wing who plays Odin in that movie.
00:59:27
Speaker
Or in that game. In that game, yeah. yes ah Okay, Isabel had a couple of backups.
Insights on Barbed Wire Comics
00:59:34
Speaker
Barbed Wire, the 94-95 series. Seen the movie, never read the comic.
00:59:39
Speaker
Oh, Matt. Matt. I hate this. hate this. This is the one that I have read of what has been mentioned. okay we get I was young once.
00:59:57
Speaker
We get to rake barbed wire. and Another John Arcudi joint. Yeah, he was all over these these dark horse movie or dark horse books that got turned into movies.
01:00:11
Speaker
Hey, man. oh Comics Greatest World. you know she's She's like, don't call me babe. don cut Hey, duck don't call me babe.
01:00:21
Speaker
It's not
01:00:24
Speaker
It's not good.
01:00:28
Speaker
Like, it's it's kind of like, I'm not going to say that the movie got it exactly right, but the movie did kind of get it exactly right.
01:00:39
Speaker
Like, in terms of, like, in terms of, like, attitude, I think. Okay. Like, the comic is, like, maybe a little bit better plot-wise, but also, like,
01:00:58
Speaker
Look, it's not like Hollywood really dropped the ball with barbed wire, you know? oh but they They got you exactly what what they what they were.
01:01:12
Speaker
Got exactly what you wanted. There is a guy in this who looks like Steve Mongo McMichael, though. I mean, comic coming out in 1994, 1995, I mean, that's what more could you want? Well, he's got these he's got these glasses. Matt, I'm going to send you a picture, and you're going to see like you're going to look at him and you're going to be like, that doesn't actually look like Steve Mongo McMichael, but I can see exactly what you mean.
01:01:36
Speaker
Did you know that there was a 2015 barbed wire reboot?
01:01:43
Speaker
I don't believe so. Well, there was. who who Who did it in 2015? Yeah, there it is. That's an Adam Hughes cover.
01:01:58
Speaker
like i Okay, he does he doesn't really look like Steve Mungo, Michael, but I do see what you're talking about. Yeah, see? see Yeah. What is 2015 Barb Wire reboot?
01:02:12
Speaker
This is like if the phrase, this ain't it, Chief, was a comic. Chris Warner and Pat Olliff were the creative people on that. Sure is.
01:02:24
Speaker
I don't think I've read all nine issues of the 1994 Barbed Wire story, but I have at least read a couple of them.
01:02:34
Speaker
Enough to rate?
01:02:37
Speaker
It would be dishonest to rate the whole series. I'm also not going to read the rest of these ever. the The first three issues are one story.
01:02:52
Speaker
um that We can do that, because i've definitely read one to three. Okay. um I mean mean... Man, they went out of their way to draw this Mongo-looking dude with hairy shoulders.
01:03:06
Speaker
They were like, gotta put a hair on this guy's shoulders. I can't tell if he's supposed to have a mustache, or if that's like just a shadow. But like, they did give him... He's got a mustache. There's a mustache. Well, they did give him like that little... I just sent you another one where you can see he's got that little Mongo mongo ponytail.
01:03:26
Speaker
He's got that little ponytail, he's got a mustache, and he's got very hairy shoulders. Boy, good get Grandma off the toilet. It's time for barbed wire.
01:03:37
Speaker
It's time to shave your shoulders. He was a horseman, Matt. He was. He was one of the four horsemen. He he um routinely hit people with a briefcase. Here's what's... I
01:03:53
Speaker
can't... I can't say the joke i was about to say. No, noh it's not good, man. It's not good.
01:04:04
Speaker
all it's not like It's not terrible. It's not good let's Let's rank Barbed Wire 1994 numbers one through three. i hate that. like I'm like, no, man. I ain't never read no Tank Girl ah indie comic stuff. I'm like, yeah, I've read Barbed Wire one one to three.
01:04:23
Speaker
i but I've honestly, like as far as Tank Girl goes, I've like looked through Tank Girl books and kind of just like admired the Jamie Hewlett art. Because Jamie Hewlett is...
01:04:36
Speaker
A great fucking artist. Yes. Like, damn. um this It's not as good as the Maximum Carnage. Okay. That's a 1423. Okay.
01:04:50
Speaker
I don't know if it's as good as Avengers Operation Galactic Storm.
01:04:55
Speaker
I'm going to say probably not.
01:04:59
Speaker
I mean, Operation Galactic Storm is not very good. It's not very good, but you know. Well, right under Operation Galactic Storm at 1477, we have that the worst Grant Morrison Batman comic.
01:05:11
Speaker
Which is the one where he goes into Internet 3.0. Okay, but is this, is Barbed Wire better than the worst Grant Morrison comic? I think it is.
01:05:22
Speaker
Okay. I don't know if it's better than Dawn, which is at 1470. Okay.
01:05:35
Speaker
I think it's right below Dawn. Okay, 1471 above Battle Scars. Yeah. Barbed Wire, 1994. Because there's also the 2015 version of Barbed Wire.
01:05:50
Speaker
Yeah, and we're just ranking 1 3. One through three. Yeah, one through three. I will say, ah i will never read the rest of that comic. So yeah do not suggest that to catch up.
01:06:00
Speaker
Fair, fair.
The Rocketeer: Art and Narrative
01:06:03
Speaker
um There was one more backup ah from Isabel, and that was... The Rocketeer, I guess the first collection from the 80s. I think we need more something more specific there. Okay, well, why wasn't that on the actual list? Because that comic owns.
01:06:18
Speaker
the The Rocketeer owns for very much so, yes. ah ah yeah I've read those. I've read i've read ah all of the the stuff that's in the... that had the like the remastered Laura Martin coloring, which is actually actually looked like really good.
01:06:35
Speaker
yeah I know ah recoloring is a a topic of some... dispute in the world. But that well like big collection, like omnibus collection, was great.
01:06:47
Speaker
Sometimes recoloring is great. Sometimes recoloring is not. I mean, it it it it depends. I feel like it's fully contingent on the use case. yeah You know, on the on the situation.
01:07:00
Speaker
ah like i do i know there's been a lot of recent controversy over the recoloring of the Alan Moore Swamp thing. Yeah.
01:07:11
Speaker
And ah Brian Boland ruined the killing joke with his recoloring. yeah ah The John Higgins coloring is like so superior to what Brian Boland was. And like I know the story behind it, but man, oh man, that John Higgins coloring is so much better.
01:07:31
Speaker
um The Rocketeer might be the prettiest comic that's ever been printed. It's so beautiful, yeah. It's beautiful. Boy, Dave Stevens. Dave Stevens had it, man.
01:07:46
Speaker
i i I have to mention, since I brought it up, um Tatiana Wood, the original colorist of those Swamp Thing comics, passed away. Oh, yeah. And, you know, people were talking about how they the her colors got recolored and, and you know, kind of kind of erased in some way.
01:08:07
Speaker
It made less interesting and good. And that's that's all. um Anyway, yeah. i Those Rocketeer comics are absolutely, completely gorgeous.
01:08:19
Speaker
We don't really... like We always talk about the art and how good the art is, but like we don't really talk about how the Rocketeer was League of Extraordinary Gentlemen before League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Pretty much, yeah. How Doc Savage's buddies are in it.
01:08:35
Speaker
What are they? the the The Fabulous Five? Like those dudes are in it. The shadow shows up like very much like, like serial numbers filed off. We're not not actually going to mention who these two guys are, but that's definitely ah ah ah ham. And what's his name from, from a doc Savage. And that is Lamont Cranston in New York in the shadow.
01:09:05
Speaker
oh So man, like there's, ah Good stuff in this. And also Betty Page. and all Yeah, and and Betty Page. like that's I probably should have mentioned that one. That's the obvious one. yeah Famous pulp character Betty Page.
01:09:22
Speaker
yeah Weird that she's in this, but with her being a real person and all. yeah But like also there's that story about like Dave Stevens kind of being the what guy who like found Betty Page and was like...
01:09:37
Speaker
like brought her back into like pop cultural prominence and also like went and found her IRL and was like like shoot friends with her.
01:09:49
Speaker
i mean that's pretty fucking cool. Yeah. Yeah, man. Rocketeer's good. Rocketeer's good.
01:10:00
Speaker
Rocketeer's good. I think we can say... it was I think the original Rocketeer run was eight issues.
01:10:12
Speaker
um i am or eights It was eight parts. it's eight stories It was in Pacific Presents, right? It was in different places. yeah It was in Star Slayer...
01:10:25
Speaker
Pacific presents the rocketeer special edition, the rocketeer adventure magazine. ah so it was, it was like all in, in different places, but it ended up getting published altogether in an IDW collection.
01:10:39
Speaker
yeah. ah see If we rank this, I think we can just rank it as rocketeer, at the complete adventures. Yeah. I think that, I think that works. Um, that, and it's, that's the one that's all been recolored by Laura Martin.
01:10:53
Speaker
Um, And yeah, it got republished by IDW in 2009. Yeah, man. yeah man if you've If you've never read this comic, like, if you even kind of like the movie, you should read this comic book.
01:11:10
Speaker
Like, I like that movie. The comic is better. The comic is so much better. Yeah. And I like that movie. Yeah. I'm not saying the movie's bad. I'm just saying, like...
01:11:21
Speaker
The comic, there's more of it. the The movie has that moment where Paul Sorvino's like, I'm a fucking criminal, but I'm not a Nazi. What's the what's to Timothy Dalton's line? He's like, Nazi, spy, saboteur, all of the above.
01:11:39
Speaker
like It's got some good shit in it. yeah this color Paul Sorvino's like, look, I'll steal from people, but I'm not a fucking Nazi. Yeah, man. but yeah Wish we had a little more of that attitude.
01:11:52
Speaker
Yeah, man. Uh, I would, I mean, I would rank the Rocketeer pretty high. Like, Rocketeer is like, I don't necessarily believe in there being like, essential comics to read.
01:12:06
Speaker
Because, like, I'm never going to be like, oh, you haven't, like, oh, you haven't read that? I'm going be like, oh, you do you get to read that. like Like, I'm excited for you, because, like, you get to read something for the first time.
01:12:21
Speaker
oh I think there are like comics that you should definitely have read if you have a certain job. Like our job.
01:12:33
Speaker
True. I mean, there are some comics that I'm sure people are like, you haven't read that to us. Yeah, there are people out there who like Loving Rockets. yeah jack Dave Stevens is like...
01:12:51
Speaker
It's in many ways an essential creator. Yeah. Also, like if you go and look at those copyright dates, it's bananas that this started in 82.
01:13:03
Speaker
If you go look at any other comics coming out in 1982. Well, I mean, think about the amount of time that Dave Stevens was taking to do one of these stories compared to you know an issue of even the best stuff coming out at the time, like Daredevil or whatever. Yeah. But yeah.
01:13:24
Speaker
Look, I'm not, ah I'm not saying it's like, I'm not saying it doesn't have its reasons for being as ah gorgeous as it is.
01:13:35
Speaker
I'm saying that like, even adjusted for that, it's a beautiful comic. And even adjusted for the fact that we have like, coloring by one of the best colorists who has ever worked in comics. Yeah.
01:13:46
Speaker
in in the hardcover. yeah If you haven't read it, you should read it. It's good. It's so good. it's and it it it looks and reads like it's 15 years but ahead of its time.
01:13:58
Speaker
At least. if not like it It looks like it could be published right now, today.
01:14:07
Speaker
i I would bet money. I've never heard him say it. I would bet cash money Joe Quinones loves this comic. I would guess so, yeah.
01:14:18
Speaker
Yeah. I would guess so.
01:14:22
Speaker
Yeah. If this came out today, I would not be surprised. I would think it looks great. Yeah. like it's It's timeless. There's a real timelessness to it. Yeah. Do you think this cracks the top 100?
01:14:36
Speaker
I mean, I do really like it. i think it's really good. and I think it holds up. For being a comic set in 1939 or whatever it is, oh like for being a comic set when it's set and coming out when it came out, it holds up incredibly well.
01:14:58
Speaker
I agree. think it... In 1938 is when it's set. Reads just as well. think that being set in 1938 is maybe one its...
01:15:09
Speaker
maybe one of its like one of the things that makes it so timeless, like, cause it was a period piece when it was made, yeah it's still a period piece now. And so it doesn't like, it doesn't have like, um, you know, things about it that date it because it's set in modern times, yeah but even in terms of like art style and presentation and like storytelling nothing about it is dated. yeah like And and even this like even the extremely horny stuff is extremely horny in a fun way.
01:15:49
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Yeah, it's good stuff. Like, you know, it... Yeah, like... It doesn't feel like... ah
01:16:06
Speaker
You know, it' It's... it's six I don't know. I was going to say it doesn't feel exploitative. man Maybe it does. but Well, it like it weirdly... That's a tough one, because it's... Like... I don't think I'm i'm blowing up anybody's spot if I say Dave Stevens is heavily photo-referencing these shots of Betty Page.
01:16:30
Speaker
yeah oh But also, like... Also the fact that Betty is... Like... up up pin-up girl fetish model is kind of like that is like that's incorporated into the plot and because it's based on a real person is kind of like incorporated into the period piece-ness of it and she's a she's she has an ownership of it yeah she is a character who has like characteristics beyond just being hot
01:17:11
Speaker
Yeah. And, and I mean, like again, it's like, she, she's taking ownership of, of herself and her body and, and like doing these things by choice and, you know, like all of that kind of stuff. Like, i mean, Dave Stevens is choosing to draw her this way and all of this. So that's why i really hesitated to, Oh yeah. i mean, like,
01:17:36
Speaker
Yeah, she's โ it's not not Betty Page. It's not not hot, sexy Betty Page and every panel she's in I do think it is it is ah testament to the work that Betty Page became friends with Dave Stevens. Yeah. um So โ And also, I think it is worth noting that, like,
01:18:01
Speaker
Cliff being a weird, like possessive asshole of Betty is presented as like his major character flaw. His biggest character flaw, yeah. yeah oh ah
01:18:14
Speaker
And also, Betty's got her like her own little helper in Marco. ah well ah But Marco does turn out to be a bad guy. He does turn out to be a bad guy, yeah. um yeah So Cliff is right. Yeah.
01:18:27
Speaker
u oh Okay, so what we have at number 100 currently is Letitia Lerner, Superman's Babysitter. i I think it's better than that. i I would say so, too.
01:18:37
Speaker
I would say so, too. I think it is...
01:18:42
Speaker
i think it is better than a lot of the stuff we have. Like, I think it is...
01:18:53
Speaker
I think it's... better than ah the Gillen and McKelvey Young Avengers, which is a great comic. I don't know if it's... like it doesn't It doesn't get me hype in the same way that Doctor Strange, Doctor Doom, Triumph, and Torment does.
01:19:06
Speaker
yeah And you want to talk about a comic that's got some good-ass art in Goddamn, yeah. Look, Doctor Strange, Doctor Doom, Triumph, Torment is a story where those two doctors go and trick the devil. Yeah, you gotta get Mike Mignola drawing...
01:19:22
Speaker
Marvel Comics superheroes and villains fighting the devil. before um By Roger Stern. Before I'm like, man man, maybe that's not as good as the Rocketeer.
01:19:32
Speaker
I mean, I would put this right below that. Okay. I'm good with that. Yeah. I do think there is a, like...
01:19:45
Speaker
i i think there's a a... At a certain point, at a certain number of comics on the list... Like, whatever's in the top 100 is just number four, you know?
01:19:56
Speaker
that
01:19:59
Speaker
so we're going to say The Rocketeer, The Complete Adventures. Yeah. If you say if you say The Rocketeer is not better than top 10, I'd probably be like, eh, yeah, maybe. ah That's the new number 80 on the list, which is the highest we've gotten in quite some time.
01:20:20
Speaker
All right. Our next list is from David LaRosse.
Dragon Ball's Great Saiyaman and Majin Buu Arcs
01:20:25
Speaker
Put that one on the actual list, not as a backup. Come on!
01:20:30
Speaker
ah From David LaRosse. First on David's list is Dragon Ball chapters 421 to 445. Dragon Ball.
01:20:40
Speaker
The Great Saaman and 25th Budokai Tenkaichi arcs. I lump those together as a single story because it's where the series is fully about Gohan and Videl.
01:20:53
Speaker
Yes. i I believe I have told you before that as much as I like Goku and as much as I have like nine action figures of Goku, my favorite Dragon Ball character is Gohan.
01:21:09
Speaker
Because he is... he is super boy. He's, he is, he's like Gohan going to high school and also being a superhero, but also superhero identity is incredibly dumb and bad and like very easy for Videl to figure out.
01:21:32
Speaker
And Videl being like, what if, what if Lois Lane is, was Hulk Hogan's teenage daughter. ah Like, it's wild, but it works. Like, I kind of, I don't know for sure. I have been told that Toriyama was planning on leaving Goku dead and just having series be about Gohan from that point on. It does, like, even in the anime. Yeah.
01:22:06
Speaker
There's like a whole series reboot. Yeah, because Goku's dead at the time. and is This is like right after the Cell Saga, right? ah Yes. Yeah.
01:22:17
Speaker
And like yeah, they start this whole thing where like Gohan gets older. Yeah, they do and they do another time jump. And goes to high school.
01:22:28
Speaker
Yeah. And is going around being this great Saiyaman superhero. Yeah. Yeah. It's great! I love it. And I also love that Tenkaichi Budokai arc as well. I do think
01:22:47
Speaker
the eternal problem with Dragon Ball and with being someone who loves Dragon Ball is that is boy can we get one?
01:23:04
Speaker
woman in this book who maintains any kind of agency and and characteristics.
01:23:16
Speaker
Because Fidel's great. And then by the time you get to, like, you know, like, Videl getting her ass beat in the Tenkaichi Budokai is like narratively interesting, because she should be like way stronger and way more capable than the dude who beats her up.
01:23:39
Speaker
But also, the way it's presented is like... like it It's kind of... It's uncomfortable in a way that Dragon Ball like very rarely gets.
01:23:51
Speaker
And... Also, that's like, well, that's kind of it for Videl, one of the best martial artists in the world. And you only get like more stuff with her in Dragon Ball GT, ah where she becomes great Saiyaman 2.
01:24:06
Speaker
um So like the Videl stuff starts out really strong and then is not like great by the end of that story.
01:24:18
Speaker
And then the Gohan stuff starts out really strong, but then is kind of not great by the end of that story. ah Because Goku comes back. And then you get Majin Buu.
01:24:31
Speaker
Right. Goku comes back to fight Majin Buu. Yeah. And then everybody on Earth dies. Right. Yeah. ah Except for Mr. Satan. Also, I do love that Videl's full name is Videl Satan.
01:24:46
Speaker
So she's she's Mr. Satan's daughter, right? She's Mr. Satan's daughter. Right. Okay. ah And Mr. Satan... i found out that Mr. Satan's name was not actually... like He has a real name, and Hercule Satan is his work ah like is yeah just workname in the in the anime they named they renamed him In the English dub of the anime, they renamed him hercue Hercule.
01:25:14
Speaker
yeah yeah ah His real name is Mark, which I think is the funniest thing in the world. He's a Mark. He's a Mark, brother. He's Mark. Yeah.
01:25:26
Speaker
Mark, according to the ah the wiki. um I think it's i think it's he's very funny. But Videl, whose name is both kind of a vegetable, but also it's an anagram of devil, and her last name is Satan.
01:25:47
Speaker
Devil Satan. Her name is Devil Satan. and And she is also like so good at karate that she learns to fly in like three days.
01:26:02
Speaker
I just wish any of those characteristics lasted. She's a human being. Yeah, she's human. She's not a Satan. arab a with satan She is a Satan.
01:26:12
Speaker
She's not a Saiyan. She's not a Saiyan. No. Yeah. ah i I have a like a whole... I have theories about all this.
01:26:24
Speaker
You're not interested. I understand. But yeah, like Videl being a super strong martial artist, it just like never comes up after this story. Which is a bummer, because I love Videl in this story. Because again, she's like, if... if and Well, if Hulk Hogan wasn't a racist piece of shit,
01:26:46
Speaker
oh if hol if Hulk Hogan was the version of Hulk Hogan that exists when Hulk Hogan talked about his career, that's Mr. Satan.
01:27:01
Speaker
That makes sense to you, Matt. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone else. I completely understand what you're saying, yes. Yes. oh I also like that Mr. Satan is like super strong for a human.
01:27:17
Speaker
But that means... like like I don't know if you know this, but in by the time we get to Dragon Ball Super, um the Tenkaichi Budokai, the strongest under of the heavens tournament, keeps happening, the World Martial Arts Tournament.
01:27:30
Speaker
And like all of the the intervening years in the the ah time jump... um Mr. Satan is the world champion because ah Boo enters and just beats everybody up. And then in every final match, they have like a work.
01:27:54
Speaker
Like, miss like that they they it's it's a work, brother. But Mr. Satan gets the well the one, two, three over Majin Boo.
01:28:05
Speaker
and ah and that's the And everybody's like, wow, Mr. Satan, the strongest person in the world.
01:28:12
Speaker
He keeps us safe from Boo. Also, those two live together. With the dog. Anyway, I really like this story. I think it's good. I think it...
01:28:25
Speaker
It... Wastes a lot of the potential that it sets up itself. I think. But I also like don't want Goku to not come back, because Goku coming back leads to really good stuff. like I actually really like the the the big fight with Majin Buu at the end.
01:28:43
Speaker
um And I like the way that Mr. Satan is incorporated into that. And I really like all of the Dragon Ball Super stuff that's all Goku and Vegeta. But I do think like that is that's your explanation as to why Videl...
01:29:01
Speaker
fades into the background and never like shows those characteristics again. Because like Dragon Ball... like It seems like the the idea was to spin Dragon Ball off into the Gohan book.
01:29:20
Speaker
Right? And it's like when Ben Reilly became Spider-Man.
01:29:27
Speaker
He worked at the Daily Grind for a while. sure did But then Peter comes back, and you don't need to see the Daily Grind anymore. Yeah.
01:29:38
Speaker
You know? Yeah, but I mean, like... But also, that's what happens Chi-Chi. You know? Also, that's what happens Chi-Chi. Bulma kind of gets away. Bulma kind of stays Bulma for the whole time. But she's not running out having adventures like she used to.
01:29:55
Speaker
No, she marries Vegeta and settles down, right? Well, she marries Vegeta and settles his ass down. yeah
01:30:05
Speaker
ah but I guess we're we're cutting this off when Bibbidi and Babidi and Boo show up, right? Well, we have the Majin Buu saga on the list yeah at number 723. So ah anything to keep this separate from the Majin Buu saga I think is good.
01:30:22
Speaker
Also, I will say that oh as much as like I like the focus being on Gohan, in this arc, and like I kind of wish we had seen the world where like Gohan is is the star of the show.
01:30:39
Speaker
I also really love Gohan, who goes and becomes an entomologist, and is a huge nerd, and just has a nice life with his his wife, the second richest woman on Earth.
01:30:51
Speaker
And has a daughter who is trained by Piccolo.
01:30:58
Speaker
don't know. I like it. I like this one. um I don't think it's... Well, jeez. It's got... It's got good stuff.
01:31:10
Speaker
I think I like... The Boo Saga... Is... matt That's tough tough.
01:31:23
Speaker
I think the Boo Saga is better... If you just like take it by itself. okay Because you don't get the payoff of all of the stuff that has really great potential in the the Gohan go on Great Saiyan Man stuff.
01:31:39
Speaker
like There's so much stuff that that could have been done that is not that is just kind of left on the table. yeah um Let's see. We've got ah the Goku Black Saga is at 123.
01:31:55
Speaker
it's the it's the It's the problem of like trying to change course on an ongoing book or an ongoing story like in the middle of it. like could it be Could the Great Saiyaman stuff be really interesting and good? Yeah, maybe.
01:32:15
Speaker
But also, like people want a particular thing from Dragon Ball. Yeah, and like that that's the thing. is like I had always heard it was like, ah Toriyama was pressured into it, into bringing Goku back, which I honestly, I can't imagine. At that point in his career, like you're going to fucking tell Toriyama what to do? You're going pressure him into doing whatever, like not doing whatever he wants?
01:32:43
Speaker
Okay. ah like I don't know if he wanted to bring Goku back or not. But, hey, i we ranked the Majin Buu saga higher than the Saiyan saga, and that's incorrect.
01:32:59
Speaker
i don't know what we were thinking that day. ah The Saiyan saga's at 865, and that's better then oh than the the Great Saiyan Man saga.
01:33:10
Speaker
um I think the Cell saga has a stronger ending. Like, that's the thing. Cell saga has a really strong ending, but, like...
01:33:22
Speaker
I mean, the beginning's pretty good, too, with the androids showing up and fucking trunks cutting Frieza in half in front of his own dad. That's pretty good. I think it's going to go below the Cell Socket, but not by much.
01:33:35
Speaker
um
01:33:38
Speaker
It's better than Jughead's Time Police, which
Spy Family Chapter 40: Humor and Storytelling
01:33:40
Speaker
is at 961. Cell Socket is 952. the celllog is at nine fifty two ah We have Savage Dragon Volume at I think I'm just going to put The Great Saiyaman Saga right below the Cell Saga.
01:33:56
Speaker
Okay, that makes it the new number 953. Cell's a real nasty freak. So we're going to say we're going to say this is Dragon Ball, Great Saiyaman, and ah the
01:34:15
Speaker
Budokai Tenkaichi...
01:34:19
Speaker
Or I think it's called the World Tournament Saga. ah ah In the anime, it was called the World Tournament. They still called it the Tenkaichi Budokai in the manga. but they also call Krillin Kuririn in the manga, so who knows?
01:34:33
Speaker
Okay. All right, I'll say i'll say it's the Budokai. It's the 25th World Tournament or I think it's 24. it's 25th. You're right, it's 25th.
01:34:52
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Next, from David, is Spy Family, Chapter 40. This is the one shot where Bond has to sneak out and help Lloyd complete a mission in order to prevent the worst fate imaginable. You're making his dinner.
01:35:09
Speaker
that's one of my That has one of my favorite panels of all time. Like, my favorite panels in all of comics. Which is when Bond, who was a dog, um...
01:35:22
Speaker
wants to ah wants to help Lloyd finish work so that he can come home and make dinner, because you're a bad cook, and Lloyd is a good cook.
01:35:36
Speaker
<unk> with Matt, you're with me so far? I'm following, yes. Okay. um The joke... is that he's a dog, so you get a a panel where he's imagining what work is, and it is Lloyd in his tweed business suit with a spear trying to kill a pig.
01:35:55
Speaker
I think I've seen this before. I have posted it several times. Yeah. um That gets me every time. It's like, yeah, that's what a dog thinks work is.
01:36:12
Speaker
Easy peasy. Yeah.
01:36:16
Speaker
ah ah It's so funny. And, I mean, man, it's about it it's about a good dog. That dog's so good. That dog can see the future.
01:36:28
Speaker
Matt, the dog can see the future.
01:36:32
Speaker
That's, I don't know what a dog would do with that. Well, i might I recommend you read Spy Family? Okay, yeah. ah But yeah, like,
01:36:48
Speaker
I will say this. You know what I love? Comics from the dog's point of view. They're great, yeah. We have we have one of those very high on the list. of Pizza's My Business yeah is is in the top 100. Yeah. um god And also, panel is so the pig is like the pig in that panel so cute like it's just ah It's just a really cute oh a panel. of Tessuya Endo is good, actually. the The creator of the extremely popular and successful spy family.
01:37:25
Speaker
At one point, Bond puts on a little mask in this so he can help out, like Ace. I also love it when a dog has to wear a mask to protect his identity.
01:37:40
Speaker
Uh-huh. It's very funny.
01:37:44
Speaker
Like Ace the Bat-hound. Like Ace the Bat- exact, Matt?
Berserk's Conviction Arc: Complexity and Characters
01:37:47
Speaker
Exactly like Ace the Bat-hound.
01:37:50
Speaker
Uh, good stuff. Good stuff. Good, good stuff. Very good comic.
01:37:59
Speaker
You haven't read this, right? You should read Spy Family. I think you'd like it. I've never read that before, no. It's good.
01:38:07
Speaker
Uh, it's tough to rank. On its own. Okay. But it's good.
01:38:15
Speaker
i mean...
01:38:18
Speaker
As a story, I think it's better than the first Squirrel Girl. That's 725. Although I do like like... I think it's probably around that that neighborhood. Okay.
01:38:31
Speaker
I honestly think it goes right below Majin Buu saga. So that makes the new number 724. Yes. Okay. yes
01:38:42
Speaker
So Spy Family Chapter 40.
01:38:47
Speaker
Does it have a title? ah Let's see. I've got it pulled up here. No, just Spy Family Mission 40. Okay.
01:39:02
Speaker
Okay. I guess I'll just call it Spy Family Chapter 40. Or Mission 40. In its parlance. That's why you've got to have a notes column map. Yeah.
01:39:14
Speaker
Finally, from David, is Berserk, the Conviction Arc by Kentaro Mira. Buddy, let me tell you something. Is Conviction the one with the with the with the little little the kids?
01:39:30
Speaker
It is part of it. It is part of it. The Conviction Arc long.
01:39:38
Speaker
The Conviction Arc is very long. Berserk got some long arcs. Yeah. It is basically everything after um the... like Okay.
01:39:52
Speaker
So, the eclipse happens. which ah The eclipse is part of the Golden Age, technically. So, like, it's it's essentially everything after the Golden Age until um the tower falls and...
01:40:11
Speaker
Guts defeats Father Mosgus. Okay, the Conviction arc is ah chapters 95 to It is chapters long. very long. I think we can... Do you think we can maybe break that down a little more, Matt, do you want to rank the Conviction arc as a whole? I mean, I feel like it does it is pretty consistent. I mean... and We rank the Golden Age altogether, and it just as long.
01:40:41
Speaker
is just as long or or nearly as long. Yeah, but look, I don't know if I would put the Lost Children chapter as, like, as high as when ah Father Mozgus turns into the thing. but When he grows the grows the wings and starts flying around and...
01:41:04
Speaker
edward do Guts has to like throw him off the top of the Tower of yeah power of Conviction. When Guts kills him, it says, fly your own ass to heaven. him oh my god, it's so good.
01:41:17
Speaker
The Conviction Arc... Okay, here's what I'll say about the Conviction Arc. i think we can I think we can include Lost Children because the Conviction Arc is very up and down.
01:41:30
Speaker
like all Like... Altogether, the Conviction Arc is like...
01:41:39
Speaker
Not as consistently good as The Golden Age. Probably better than Black Swordsman. There is literally no other comic book that is as good as it compares to The Golden Age. i am yeah I am increasingly convinced that that should be at the top of the list.
01:41:59
Speaker
It's number nine. Yeah. Which is pretty fucking high, but yeah. um But like, so okay. Okay. Conviction Arc introduces Farnes, who is so complicated.
01:42:12
Speaker
Yes. who is so like Who has so much shit going on. Farnes, of all the characters in Berserk, might have the most shit going on. She's got so much shit going on. She's so repressed.
01:42:30
Speaker
She's having dreams about fucking... the dragon slayer. Like, like she's fucking doing weird self-flagellation, but also pdsm Yeah.
01:42:48
Speaker
And also like dramatically. I, my, one of my favorite Farno scenes is when she like dramatically cuts her hair and guts is like, okay. All right.
01:43:01
Speaker
You did. thought Okay. ah It also um like has โ I don't know. like The Conviction Arc has some of like the hardest to wrangle with characters in all of Berserk. um I'm trying to remember her name. The girl with the curly hair.
01:43:22
Speaker
um Who like essentially like fucks everything up.
01:43:30
Speaker
um and And tries to sacrifice that guy to that that cult character. That like lives in a cave. Oh, to yeah. the The great goat goat cult.
01:43:40
Speaker
Yeah, she's ah she's like a sex worker, right? Yes, yes, yes, yes. yes yeah but she's She's one of the one of the ones who winds up picking up Casca. Right. um But they're the nice ones who help Casca. yeah, yeah. And then she's the one who kind of like sells them out. Yeah, and she's the one who sucks.
01:44:01
Speaker
but But she doesn't suck entirely. Like, that's that's the whole thing about the does, But that's the whole thing about the Conviction arc, right? It's like, it's full of these characters who are like, you want to judge them, and then they turn out to be way more complicated than they seem.
01:44:18
Speaker
um Which is very cool. Like, I like that about the Conviction arc, but also makes the Conviction arc, like, a tough read. Like, It's ah it's ah it's ah a bit of a come down after the Golden Age, um for sure. ah But it's like, Berserk hasn't quite gotten to the point where it's about like the ragtag group of misfits that it that Berserk becomes about like in its...
01:44:46
Speaker
later act. Yeah, we don't know we don't get Isidro and Shirky. Well, Isidro is in the Conviction art. That's right, Isidro's in there. um And we get... Do we get Farnes at the end of it?
01:44:59
Speaker
She's all throughout it, too. Yeah, but I mean, like does she join... i I can't remember if that's when she joins the team. After Father Mosgus falls off the collapsing Tower of Conviction...
01:45:12
Speaker
um ah far Yes, Farnes is like, okay, I guess I'm going with you To And she dramatically cuts her hair, and Guts is like, okay. And then Serpico's like, it's a living!
01:45:27
Speaker
oh Yeah. Yeah. ah Yeah, I guess I'm going too, is is ah is essentially what... Secretly unknown to Farnes, Serpico is secretly her brother.
01:45:42
Speaker
But there' there's also like a weird sense that maybe they do know. He knows. it's it He knows for sure. Yeah, he knows for sure. um But yeah, like the Conviction Arc is conviction art is good.
01:45:56
Speaker
like Do not get me wrong. It's good.
01:46:01
Speaker
But man, it's it's complicated. I will say, I do like Father Mozga's. He's a weirdo. he's um Compared to other Berserk villains, like, so many Berserk villains are like, knowingly like, I'm a freak. Yeah, I feel like that's an actual quote.
01:46:30
Speaker
And Mosgus has convinced himself that he's morally good.
01:46:41
Speaker
the The Conviction arc also has the egg of the perfect world, um who is a bonkers character. Nina. Nina is her name. I i feel i feel like... Nina is the the curly-haired sex worker who ruins everything. I feel like the ah the Conviction arc had that like recap page that I posted, where it's like, all of this makes perfect sense and is also fucking incomprehensible.
01:47:10
Speaker
yeah if you have not like If you need a previously on Berserk, this will not help you. i Yeah, I think the Conviction arc is where Berserk feels the most like a soap opera.
01:47:25
Speaker
for Yeah, you know, like all those soap operas where ah a the Thing fights a man with a giant sword. Yeah, where there's where there's a giant goat orgy.
01:47:36
Speaker
yeah Oh, man, I forgot about the giant goat orgy, but yeah. move um that turns into a like a big firefight because the Holy Chain Knights come in during the middle of it.
01:47:54
Speaker
Yeah, like, Mazgus has his crew of dudes that are 100% all like, yeah, I'm nasty. Like, the fucking...
01:48:05
Speaker
like those like the fucking twins with the saws and like the little scissor man from Clock Tower. Uh-huh. Yeah.
01:48:18
Speaker
But yeah, Mosgus isn't like, I'm nasty. Mosgus is a weirdo. Well, like he does. There's a reveal in the Conviction arc of like what's the first time you see Mosgus, he's got this like weird flat face.
01:48:37
Speaker
And you're like, I guess that's just what he looks like. And then There's an explanation of why his face is flat. Because of the way he prays.
01:48:50
Speaker
Where he pushes his face into the floor. of
01:48:59
Speaker
He's a fucking weirdo. yeah He's the biggest pure weirdo in that book. i I stand by my contention that... It's not as good as the Golden Age.
01:49:14
Speaker
It's probably a little better than the Black Swordsman arc. You know like in a video game where you'll have like your stats laid out on like a pentagon or whatever?
01:49:26
Speaker
We need one of those for characters for Ajax where the points are like weirdo, freak, pervert, nasty. And I don't know what the fifth one would be.
01:49:40
Speaker
We'll figure it out. Yeah, we'll figure it out.
01:49:44
Speaker
He's, he's all, all of his points are in weirdo. He is a total weirdo. I don't think he's a perv. He is nasty. But he's not, na he's not nasty like that, like, like the torturer who goes at Griffith is nasty. That guy is nasty. He is also a torturer.
01:50:05
Speaker
He is also a torturer. like They're doing mad torture in the Tower of Conviction. Yes. Mad torture.
01:50:19
Speaker
Yes. Correct. Yes. um i Okay. i We have the Black Source Menarche at number 180.
01:50:29
Speaker
I think this has to go a little above that. Okay. Okay. But i don't know I don't know exactly where.
01:50:43
Speaker
should send you a little message. Okay. Is this about a nasty freak? I don't know. It's about a weirdo. It's a about a weirdo. He's getting right in Farnes' face there.
01:50:57
Speaker
God, I gotta go back and look at the explanation of why his face is flat. It's so funny. It's so funny. like I don't think people often talk about Berserk being funny.
01:51:08
Speaker
It can be riotously funny. ah I think Berserk's very funny. Like, Berserk's very serious, but also, like, those fucking nasty ghost pirates show up, and they're like Team Rocket, basically.
01:51:24
Speaker
I mean, okay, there there are definitely parts of Berserk that are, like, meant to be funny, like, stuff where Puck is doing in gags and gets, like like, drawn in a real chibi style and everything.
01:51:36
Speaker
But... There's stuff in Berserk where like I'm not sure that it's intended to be funny, but it's funny. It's like the most morbidly, darkly funny stuff. oh Mazgis kneels, raises his arms to shoulder level, and slams his entire torso and face into the floor 1,000 times every night.
01:52:00
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's why his face is flat. That's why he's got this weird face, and is a huge fucking weirdo. That's so funny. But he's also like a rock monster.
01:52:11
Speaker
Like, when he when he transforms, you know, when he becomes activated. He becomes a a thing. Yeah, he turns into like this like weird rock monster.
01:52:26
Speaker
it's
01:52:28
Speaker
oh man.
01:52:33
Speaker
Mozgus. Released. Released is what it is when he's...
01:52:40
Speaker
When the the ah
01:52:44
Speaker
the demons come out.
01:52:48
Speaker
Real, real, real freako. When the apostles reveal themselves.
01:52:56
Speaker
Like, look, I don't want to say it's better than V for Vendetta. I mean... Look, I mean... so you think it's better than Black Swordsman? Yeah.
01:53:07
Speaker
So that's at 180, V for Vendetta's at 170. yeah
01:53:14
Speaker
Do you think it's better than Alan Moore's Wildcats, which we correctly ranked above From Hell and V for Vendetta? I think it's better than that Beta Ray Bill miniseries, but I don't think it's better than X-Men Red 1 through 10, which we were hooting and hollering about when we read it.
01:53:33
Speaker
if If we were just talking about the mo like the the actual Tower of Conviction part, I would say you could maybe put it above. Matt, I tried to read the Lost Children chapter on an airplane with someone sitting next to me.
01:53:53
Speaker
And it was like it was like that tweet of like you know reading this but shaking my head so they know I think it's bad. that is That is a story where Guts kills a lot of children.
01:54:05
Speaker
But like he he doesn't have any choice. There's no way to turn them back. Yeah, also there's an extremely naked insect woman. Yeah, yeah.
01:54:19
Speaker
so So you're more worried about the naked insec insect woman than the child death? I just want to make that clear. Yeah, because... like If you just look over and Guts is murdering all these children, like that's bad, obviously. But if you look over and someone is reading a book with like a very naked insect woman in it, you are going to make assumptions about that person.
01:54:40
Speaker
That's fair. um And it doesn't look like he's killing children. It looks like he's killing fairies or bugs. Yeah. um But I was shaking my head the whole time. just Okay, so so what's your argument here? that it's No, i I'm just saying...
01:54:55
Speaker
Conviction arc 167 is right. If it was just the Mozga stuff, it would be like 10 places is higher. But I think the whole Conviction arc is... Like, sort of the ups and downs of the Conviction arc are exemplified by the difference between Big Naked Bug Lady and...
01:55:17
Speaker
guts throwing father ah activated Mozgus off the top of the Conviction arc and saying, hey, why don't you grow why don't you fly your way out off of this? ah Yeah. ah You know.
01:55:30
Speaker
ah
01:55:34
Speaker
Because there's definitely ups and downs throughout that whole thing.
01:55:41
Speaker
Okay. I don't think we have time to start another list
01:55:47
Speaker
I don't think we do either, Matt. So we will take a leisurely stroll through outro. and And finish Talked about some good ones, talked about some bad ones.
01:56:02
Speaker
Mostly talked about good ones, I think. Yeah. ah You know, nothing like nearing the bottom of the list on this episode. So that's how it goes. And up and we cracked the top 100. Yeah.
01:56:16
Speaker
We did, which is a rare thing these days. If you would like to send us an Every Story Ever list for perhaps two years from now, um one, there are two ways two things you have to do ah before...
01:56:31
Speaker
ah that list gets read on the show. One is join our Patreon. Go to patreon.com slash warrocketajax. And um you can donate as little as a dollar a month. If you donate a dollar a month, you get all of our shows completely ad free. If you donate $5 a month, you get bonus content ah that we do, but you have to be at the $10 level per month to,
01:56:58
Speaker
be at the line stepper level. And once you're a line stepper, that is when you enter the queue of essentially lists that get read on the show.
01:57:10
Speaker
Like, maybe we shouldn't call it line stepper anymore, because there's a new line.
Community Engagement and Support Options
01:57:18
Speaker
It's really the join the line level.
01:57:21
Speaker
Yeah, i don't think we're ever getting to any non- any non non-line-stiffer lines. Yeah. um like You know how like um there's like the priority lines at Disney World?
01:57:37
Speaker
Well, imagine if that line was really long. It's like it's like ah TSA PreCheck here in 2026. Boy, oh boy. I'll tell you what.
01:57:48
Speaker
um Anyway, um so So join the the Patreon at the $10 level, or you could join at the $15 level. Name a location on Gimmick Street. You've got to listen to the regular Ajax episodes to know what we're talking about with that. But um you do that. At the $20 level, you get a t-shirt.
01:58:07
Speaker
um but and at At least the $10 level, you become a line stepper. Then, once you've established your line stepper status, get the password from us, from me,
01:58:20
Speaker
on Patreon ah to indicate that you were a line stepper, then email us your list with that password to rocket podcast at gmail.com. That is the process by which you will get your list on the show.
01:58:39
Speaker
um probably two years from now. Uh, so, you know, um, Easy peasy. It's kind of like waiting to get an organ. You have to wait two years.
01:58:55
Speaker
um But... Eventually we'll get to it. And so send us a list and join the Patreon and do all of that. And we will greatly appreciate it. There are other ways to get in touch with us besides email. If you want to get in touch with us with other things besides every story ever lists, um you can email us war rocket podcast at gmail.com.
01:59:14
Speaker
We're on Tumblr war rocket podcast at Tumblr.com. We're on blue sky war rocket. Ajax.com on blue sky. um You can also message us on our Discord.
01:59:26
Speaker
um We have a Discord server. It is by invitation only, but if you would like to be a member of the Discord and you email us nicely or ask us nicely for an invitation,
01:59:38
Speaker
on our Patreon or any of the places I just mentioned for a Discord invitation. We'll shoot you an invitation you can join over there and be part of that cool community of War Rocket Ajax fans. A lot of the names that you hear on these Every Story Ever specials, they are there and active on the Discord. So you can talk to those people and hang out and chill with those people. And it's very fun.
02:00:05
Speaker
Let's see, what else? WarRocketAjax.com is our website. It's got every episode of the show. WarRocketWiki.com is our wiki that has all kinds of info about the show and stuff you need to know.
02:00:17
Speaker
If you want to find me and my stuff, go to MattDWilson.net to find links to my comics, my books, my other podcasts, and my social medias. Chris, where can people find you? Everybody can find me by going to The-ISB.com. That is my website.
02:00:31
Speaker
And it has links to where you can read things I've written. Or hire me to write them for you.
02:00:39
Speaker
And I believe that will wrap us up here for the March Every Story Ever special. um Thank you all for listening. We'll be back back in April with another Every Story Ever special.
02:00:53
Speaker
well We will rank even more comics. So come back for that.
02:01:01
Speaker
Yeah.
02:01:03
Speaker
Bye, everybody. See you next month.