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00:00:01
1 Jeff and Al
85 Plays8 months ago
Jeff and Al introduce themselves, discuss their tools, and plans for the podcast.
Things of the week:
LL Cool J ft Eminem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50Tl8E0Vvms
Vortex cnc bits: https://www.vortextool.com/
Patreon: http://patreon.com/digifabricators
Discord: https://discord.gg/hHp8Sv7vt4
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Premise
00:00:07
Jeff Stein
Hello, and welcome to DigiFabricators, the show where we learn how makers and artists use their computer-driven tools for fun, art, and profit. I'm your host, Jeff st jeff Stein, and I can't talk, AKA a a weird guy. And with me is my talented but humble co-host, Al Schultz of New York Woodworks. How you doing tonight, Al?
00:00:33
AL
If I was any better, I'd have to sell tickets, Jeff.
00:00:37
Jeff Stein
That sounds fantastic.
00:00:42
AL
it's It's been a beautiful day. I've been looking forward to getting started here with you this evening and we'll see what happens here.
00:00:51
Jeff Stein
All right. Well, let's let's give it our best shot. Before we get started, I'm going to read off our official podcast disclaimer.
00:01:02
Jeff Stein
Even though we pretend to be experts on the internet, I would like to point out that neither of us have any actual training and are just guys winging it in our shops and learning as we go. All advice provided is based on our personal experience and possibly inaccurate assumptions and is worth exactly what you pay for it. If listening to this show causes you to take out a loan to buy new and expensive digital tools, you may tell your spouse that it was our fault, but do so at your own risk.
00:01:33
Jeff Stein
All right.
00:01:35
AL
Now that's how to stay safe.
00:01:38
Jeff Stein
Well, you know, I thought it was a fun way to start a show. Um, yeah, in a, in a, in a show talking about, you know, people who are really good at using their things, you know, I thought, mean you know, maybe a disclaimer that maybe we're all just starting to sort this stuff out and.
00:01:45
AL
yeah
00:02:03
Jeff Stein
There's a potential that some of the advice that we throw out might just be completely wrong. I mean, I don't know.
00:02:12
AL
um'm I'm incorrect most of the time.
00:02:15
Jeff Stein
Yeah, well.
00:02:16
AL
ah I feel like.
00:02:19
Jeff Stein
Yeah, well, i'm I'm usually right, except for when I'm not.
00:02:24
AL
yeah yeah Yeah.
00:02:24
Jeff Stein
Problem is I'm just not sure which of those times it is.
00:02:31
AL
So what brings us here this evening?
00:02:33
Jeff Stein
So what brings us here this evening? Well, this is a podcast I thought we needed it to have. It's, it's been sort of percolating in the back of my head for a while. And, uh, the, I, I, this podcast will be focused on talking with lots of talented people.
00:02:56
Jeff Stein
and finding out about what digital tools they use and how they use them and everything related to them and the awesome things that they're doing and making. and Just, I'd like to showcase all the different ways that people can use the tools that, I mean, everybody looks at a CNC and says, Oh, look, it, you know, you can carve a sign with that. Well, everybody can carve a sign with it. That is absolutely true.
00:03:35
Jeff Stein
And people can make some amazing signs.
00:03:35
AL
Right, right.
00:03:38
Jeff Stein
And I'm not even going to throw a stick at that. But I mean, some people don't make signs. Some people do weird stuff with their CNCs. And the same, huh?
00:03:47
AL
Like group.
00:03:49
AL
Like group.
00:03:49
Jeff Stein
Like me? Yeah, like Groot. Like like carving like carving a Groot from five different sides on a three-axis CNC, for example. Some people get a wild hair and decide that they want to do something different.
00:04:03
Jeff Stein
I mean, I know some people that are, ah some people carve like negative molds to pour stuff into and, you know, some people do engraving and some people do, you know, 3d stuff. and it's Lots of inlays.
00:04:21
Jeff Stein
I mean, there's, there's just a bunch of different stuff and there's a bunch of different ways that people can use their tools, whether they're making things for art, for fun, or whether they're actually running a business with these tools and how they're using them to, you know, make their business work.
00:04:40
AL
It'll be, yeah, it'll be very interesting to see how someone takes basically the same equipment and how it fits into their workflow to get their desires and their dreams fulfilled as they travel through this void.
00:04:41
Jeff Stein
So.
00:04:51
Jeff Stein
Right.
00:04:55
Jeff Stein
Yeah. And everybody's got a different perspective. Everybody's got a different idea. Everybody's got a different reason for why they bought their stuff and what they want to do with it. And it they're very, very o flexible tools that you you can, you can stick almost any kind of materials into these tools and do whatever you want with them.
00:05:20
Jeff Stein
especially with the laser and the CNC and the, the variety of different ways that people are using 3d printers as well. And, uh, I mean that that's the obvious big three there that, you know, the CNC, the laser and the 3d printer.
00:05:36
Jeff Stein
I mean, those, those those are the the the crown three of the digital fabrication world that everybody sees and expects when you throw out the term digital fabrication.
00:05:47
AL
Yeah, yeah. the digital trifecta.
00:05:50
Jeff Stein
Um, That is the, yeah, though those are the big three. Um, there's a, there's a handful more that I hope that we can get to at some point. You know, there's vinyl cutters and plotters and, uh, uh, cricket and, uh, you know, all kinds of assorted things, anything you can plug into a computer to program it is fair game for me.
00:06:06
AL
Yep. yep
00:06:16
AL
Yeah, yeah, and I like the yeah the variants, you know, like even a three axis CNC machine can be a plasma cutter can be, you know, cutting, you know, torch, you know, with a plasma torch, cutting out metal signs, metal pieces and parts. um It's still a CNC machine. It's just used with ah in a completely different application.
00:06:38
Jeff Stein
and Right. And, and there's lots of machines out these days that are fairly interchangeable. I mean, I know that there's a lot of, and there has been for many years, lots of CNCs that you can pull the router off and pop the laser in and switch back and forth and then pop that out and stick in a drag engraving bit or something, you know, so, I mean, so they do have a lot of flexibility in the same.
00:07:06
Jeff Stein
And I mean, really a a three axis frame is pretty much a three axis frame, no matter what kind of tool you're sticking on the head of it, but, you know, we're, you know, having any access you want.
00:07:13
AL
Yeah, it's good.
Audience and Technical Focus
00:07:20
AL
Yeah.
00:07:22
Jeff Stein
But you know, that's, that's kind of the focus of the show. And I'm, I'm aiming to have sort of a blend of an interview with a casual hangout amongst makers, as well as a bit of a tech heavy examination of what they're doing and how they're doing it.
00:07:26
AL
Yeah.
00:07:48
Jeff Stein
I, that's the big part of why I'd like to do this show separate from what anybody else is doing on their shows is because there's a lot of maker interview podcasts out there. Most of them tend to focus on the artist and who the artist is and why the artist feels like they make this kind of art, which is fantastic.
00:08:17
Jeff Stein
But I'd like my focus not to be on who you are and why you made it. I want the focus to be on what you used and how you did it.
00:08:30
AL
Yeah.
00:08:30
Jeff Stein
So and because of this, I'm not looking as and to to get as wide of an audience as every casual maker.
00:08:44
Jeff Stein
Because every casual maker may not be super interested in this, but I think the number of people who have a CNC laser or 3D printer in their house right now, I think that number has a lot of zeros on it.
00:09:01
Jeff Stein
I don't know how many there are, but there's a lot of them out there.
00:09:05
AL
Yeah, yeah.
00:09:05
Jeff Stein
And I think there's a market for content that doesn't shy away from using terms like feed rate, step over, you know, and ah you know, I, I'm aiming for a target audience of people who know what those words mean.
00:09:19
AL
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:09:27
Jeff Stein
I mean, I'm going to try not to really be too confusing. If somebody jumps out with something crazy, it's like, since you don't have any experience with 3d printing,
00:09:42
Jeff Stein
the first time we have someone on that's a 3d printer, we're gonna need to give you a couple of, you know, we're, we're gonna have to use you as a good way to introduce the audience to some of the basics of what we're talking about.
00:09:59
AL
Right, exactly.
00:10:00
Jeff Stein
And I think that'll work out nicely. And
00:10:03
AL
Yeah, I'm looking forward. I'm looking forward to gleaning a lot of information from all these guests, you know, that are doing things ah differently than I do or you do, you know, so it's just a it's a huge going to be a huge knowledge base to to to to look back on even.
00:10:18
Jeff Stein
Oh yeah. As far as I know, I don't do anything the right way. So hearing anybody that does should be eye opening for me, I guess.
00:10:30
AL
Well, I can promise you one thing, buddy, you are not alone.
00:10:34
Jeff Stein
Yeah. and Well, you know, that's, that's why I thought maybe we needed the disclaimers because ah <unk> it's not like anybody's actually taught us what the right way is.
00:10:41
AL
Yeah.
00:10:45
Jeff Stein
It's just, we just started. we We, we bought something, we plugged it in and we just started doing things and figured out some things work and some things don't.
00:10:56
Jeff Stein
And we, but even though we know things work, we might not have comprehended exactly why they work.
00:10:58
AL
Yeah.
00:11:06
Jeff Stein
We might've assumed that they work because of this, but it might actually be a different reason. Who knows? Maybe we'll have some people on that actually know what the hell they're talking about.
00:11:15
AL
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the one of the one of the most common terms in my shop is, huh, interesting.
00:11:22
Jeff Stein
Yeah,
00:11:23
AL
you know So yeah, yeah, no, it's gonna be, I'm looking forward to somebody saying, hey, you know, that's a cool way you're doing it, but you've been doing it wrong. you know try it Try it this way.
00:11:35
Jeff Stein
yeah well, I won't be surprised to hear that.
00:11:40
AL
Yeah, not at all, not at all. So in ah in being a show focused on digital fabrication equipment and applications, but what what do you do digitally?
00:11:56
Jeff Stein
Okay. Well digitally, what do I do?
Jeff's Digital Fabrication Tools and Projects
00:12:00
Jeff Stein
Um, I have a, uh, an old three axis CNC. It's a shape OCO three, the XXL model on its third trim router, uh, about four years in now and.
00:12:08
AL
Mm-hmm.
00:12:19
Jeff Stein
I consider myself an artist more than anything else. I like to take on long, complex, strange projects. Of course, I'm working in, I'm working in evenings where, you know, I'm, I'm cut free from the household duties at nine and I can go make any noise I want until about 12. And then I got to come up, walk the dogs and get ready for bed.
00:12:47
Jeff Stein
So I get about three hours a night and I'll do projects that when using a trim router take, you know, 20 or 30 hours.
00:12:53
AL
Mm hmm.
00:12:58
Jeff Stein
So some of my stuff will end up being, you know, weeks or months for one project, but. I try to do some crazy stuff like, you know, using a three axis and nothing but a block of wood for fixturing to carve something from five sides to make a Groot.
00:13:19
AL
Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:20
Jeff Stein
For example, as mentioned earlier, um, in addition to that, I've got a, uh, a four axis rotary CNC machine, which is actually only three axis to be confusing because
00:13:21
AL
Yeah.
00:13:37
Jeff Stein
it's got the uh the left and right x-axis the forward and back y-axis is fixed on the frame the the the main left and right crossbar does not move forward and backward and the spindle is always pointing over the center line of the rotation axis below it so
00:14:05
AL
So is it safe to say it's basically a CNC gantry with a rotary underneath it, a lathe, a slow lathe?
00:14:13
Jeff Stein
That is exactly what it is.
00:14:15
AL
Okay, okay.
00:14:15
Jeff Stein
That is exactly it. is the c It is a fixed CNC gantry that has the rotary underneath it and it's in line so that the spindle is always on the center of rotation.
00:14:29
Jeff Stein
So I can carve a lot of stuff, but there's also a bunch of stuff you can't reach. If I were to carve, say a coffee mug, I could carve the entire outline of the coffee mug, but I would never be able to reach inside the handle because when the handle is up, I'm on top of the handle. I can never get inside it.
00:14:56
AL
Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you can't you you can't you don't have an X and Y.
00:15:01
Jeff Stein
right well i've got the yeah i don't have the y i've only got the x and i still have the z but uh if if you can just picture like taking a pringles can in your hand and rotating it forward and back whatever is at the absolute apex top of the curve is the only thing that you can hit with that
00:15:04
AL
You don't have a Y. I'm sorry.
00:15:26
Jeff Stein
which is still quite a bit but you just have to plan your projects and stuff so that you don't need any of that yeah yes exactly it has the fixed that has the fixed y as well that's exactly right
00:15:29
AL
yeah
00:15:35
AL
Um, it's, it's, it's the same concept as ah a rotary with a laser. You can only, the laser only burns the very top apex and you, and you rotate the mug into it. If you're, if you will. yeah
00:15:53
AL
Hmm. Interesting.
00:15:55
Jeff Stein
Um, onto the next toy. I do have a laser. ah Okay. I've got a baby pretend laser. It's ah what a four and a half watt diode and it is it's It's a little toy, but it's enough to like laser my logo on the bottom of anything I need, you know, which is really what I bought it for. And it was only a couple hundred bucks and.
00:16:26
AL
Is it a gantry laser?
00:16:29
Jeff Stein
It's, uh, yes, but it's, it's an open, it's an open gantry laser. Um, it's an Ofero two. It's like a U F E R O two. And it's just, it's, it's just like the gantry where it's got the left and the right sides that are sort of small. It's got the crossbar and then it's got the arm that sticks out, but there's no other frame.
00:16:56
Jeff Stein
so the night And there's no bottom and no top, there's no box.
00:16:56
AL
Hmm.
00:16:59
Jeff Stein
so So not only can I set it on top of things, but I can set it on the edge of my workbench and shoot off the edge of the workbench at something that it would be taller.
00:17:00
AL
So we could set it on things.
00:17:13
AL
Okay.
00:17:13
Jeff Stein
So so if you wanted a laser on the bottom of, say you make a mallet and you wanna put the laser on the bottom of the handle,
00:17:14
AL
Yeah.
00:17:25
Jeff Stein
You can't do that in a normal laser because it's in a box and the laser doesn't go that high. In my case, I can clamp that item to whatever it is to the side of my workbench and stick the gantry over the edge and shoot down at whatever I want, and regardless of height.
00:17:44
AL
three Yeah, you could do the end of a baseball bat if you just raise it up high enough.
00:17:50
Jeff Stein
Exactly.
00:17:51
AL
Yeah, interesting.
00:17:52
Jeff Stein
So it's a flexible toy. It it is not really, uh, quite up into the tool category.
00:17:54
AL
Yeah.
00:18:00
Jeff Stein
I mean, it is, but I mean, it's not really a serious tool.
00:18:02
AL
Yeah.
00:18:04
Jeff Stein
It's more of a toy, but I mean, it's a laser. So I'm happy to have one of those.
00:18:08
AL
Yeah.
00:18:10
Jeff Stein
And then I'm currently on my second, uh, 3d printer. I bought a. Mars 2 Pro resin printer like three years ago. And I had fun with it for a couple of years and then it just kind of lost the spark with me. The resin is just, it's a pain in the ass. Let's be honest, it does really good detail work, but it's, well, it did, but I mean, it was only a 1080 resolution. So I mean, compared to today's, they make 8K.
00:18:47
Jeff Stein
the resin printers right now. So, um, the, this summer I bought, uh, one of the new bamboo, uh, machines, one of the X one carbon. And then I, uh, I gifted the old resin machine to a buddy of mine that didn't have anything. So it was better than nothing for him.
00:19:10
AL
yeah Now, does a ah forgive my ignorance, I guess this is what this show is for.
00:19:16
Jeff Stein
Sure.
00:19:16
AL
it I'm assuming there's a difference between a filament printer and a resin printer.
00:19:20
Jeff Stein
Absolutely. Uh, night and day difference, completely a hundred percent, 110 degree, 180 degree opposite.
00:19:22
AL
Yeah. Okay.
00:19:29
Jeff Stein
I don't know my degrees.
00:19:30
AL
It's a different animal.
00:19:31
Jeff Stein
clearly i didn't get a Clearly, I didn't get a degree in geometry. um Yeah, completely different technology. With the the filament printer, you've got the spool of the thin line filament, like the weed whacker trim line on the top that feeds into the machine.
00:19:51
AL
Mm-hmm.
00:19:53
Jeff Stein
And then the ah the the print head runs around and It basically works like a little teeny tiny miniature glue gun where you push the stuff into the back and then it melts and oozes out the front in a controlled kind of way.
00:20:04
AL
Yeah.
00:20:10
Jeff Stein
And then ah you know the robot moves around and puts it where it needs to go. Now, the resin printer is 100% different. it um It is UV curing resin. So, I mean, you're familiar with people just using resin and woodworking projects. I mean, there's the resin that cures over 24 hours, and then there's the stuff you pour and you shine the UV light on it. It cures right away.
00:20:42
Jeff Stein
Okay. Well, they figured out that if they take a television screen and put it on the bottom of the machine, and then right above that, you put a vat, a little, you know, a little tub container and you put the UV sensitive resin into it.
00:21:04
Jeff Stein
then when you flash ah just a black and white image on the screen, all the white areas emit UV from from the LCD, and then it will harden the resin right on top of the screen right there.
00:21:23
Jeff Stein
And once you put a sheet of plastic between that and the resin, then you don't actually glue the stuff to the LCD screen, hopefully. And then you've got a plate that comes down and it stops like a half a millimeter up above the bottom. And then when it flashes the picture, it cures.
00:21:47
Jeff Stein
that bit of resin and it sticks to the plate in that pattern and then it lifts up another half a millimeter and flashes the next picture to lock the next layer in and as the plate keeps getting higher and higher the model keeps getting taller but you're building the model upside down so I mean if you're printing
00:22:07
AL
yeah
00:22:10
Jeff Stein
Uh, somebody from one of the maker camp scans, standing there with his hands on his hips, his feet are going to be on the plate facing the sky while his head and shoulders slowly emerged from the muck upside down.
00:22:15
AL
Yeah.
00:22:26
AL
So it's like an MRI machine. You're just slicing.
00:22:31
Jeff Stein
Yeah. Well, that's how printers work. That's exactly how the 3d printers work is that they take the model and they, and you define a layer height and it can be, you know, 0.2 or 0.3 millimeters down to smaller than that.
00:22:34
AL
Yeah.
00:22:37
AL
Yeah.
00:22:53
Jeff Stein
I mean, it depends on your printer. I mean, you can get down to like 0.08 millimeters if you want a really, really, really tiny thing is preset and software, but uh, so it, it'll just take the model and it'll literally cross section the entire thing by that set amount of height. And whatever it has on that layer is what it needs to print, put the model back together at the other end.
00:23:25
Jeff Stein
including, you know, supports and other bullshit that needs to be, as you know, you can't print things hanging in space.
00:23:29
AL
Yeah.
00:23:31
Jeff Stein
You got to have them standing on site, you know, gravity.
00:23:35
AL
This is above my, above my pay grade.
00:23:36
Jeff Stein
and It is what it is.
00:23:39
AL
That's why I don't, and this is why I don't own 3d printers.
00:23:43
Jeff Stein
Well, yeah were I think we'll catch you up to speed here pretty quick on the 3d printer.
00:23:44
AL
They're magic.
00:23:49
AL
Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:50
Jeff Stein
And, uh, I think that, uh, you might end up, you know, after we talked to two or three different people that are doing different things with 3d printers over the course of episodes that you, you might decide that you've got a need for one of these in your, in your shop or your house.
00:23:50
AL
Yeah.
00:24:08
AL
i Yeah, yeah. I actually do have a need, I do have ah a business design that I've been kicking around for years and and one of the parts needs to be made on a 3D printer.
00:24:23
AL
So I either need to source that from someone with one or I need to get a 3D printer and make these pieces myself.
00:24:30
Jeff Stein
Well, it sounds like a good excuse to buy a printer to me.
00:24:30
AL
So.
00:24:34
Jeff Stein
I mean, I don't know that anybody actually needs a good excuse to go buy a new digital tool, but.
00:24:34
AL
thanks
00:24:37
AL
Yeah, yeah I'm gonna uh, can I refer to the disclaimer in the beginning and blame everything I buy on you Well, I appreciate it buddy
00:24:45
Jeff Stein
Sure. Absolutely. I'll take that. I don't care. Uh, I don't, I, I'm not the one that has to live with your wife and you feel free to pass that blame anywhere you want.
00:24:58
Jeff Stein
So we we've clarified that you do not have any idea about 3d printing and do not have a 3d printer yet, but we haven't clarified what you do, what you make and what you do own.
Al's Equipment and Artistic Shift
00:25:13
Jeff Stein
So why don't why don't you take a turn at that one before we get lost.
00:25:16
AL
Sure. Sure. Sure. Thank you. Um, I, like you said, I don't have a 3d printer. I've never even actually I've never even touched one. Um, but I do have a CNC machine, which is a large format CNC machine.
00:25:32
AL
It's four foot by eight foot. It is a, are we saying brand names? Does it matter?
00:25:37
Jeff Stein
Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:38
AL
It's a, it's a, uh, yeah.
00:25:38
Jeff Stein
I'm absolutely, and I'm in favor of telling people what machines we have and how we feel about them. I'm fully for that.
00:25:48
AL
Yeah.
00:25:48
Jeff Stein
I have absolutely no interest in gaining corporate sponsors for this show.
00:25:49
AL
All right.
00:25:55
Jeff Stein
I'll do a Patreon read at the end and either we get some
00:25:55
AL
Purple.
00:25:59
AL
Perfect.
00:26:00
Jeff Stein
Community supporters or we pay for this thing out of our own pocket for a while either way I'm not looking to appease any corporate overlords if you've got a machine I want to know what machine it is and I'd like to know how you feel about it and that goes for everybody and I don't give a shit if You say it sucks
00:26:06
AL
perfect Perfect. Yep. please
00:26:18
AL
Yep.
00:26:24
Jeff Stein
And you say you hate it.
00:26:24
AL
Yeah.
00:26:25
Jeff Stein
I'm totally comfortable with the, I think the audience should know that people are having a bad experience with a certain machine.
00:26:30
AL
Sure. Absolutely. I agree.
00:26:34
Jeff Stein
And I mean, that may or may not be indicative of a larger problem, but it speaks to how your experience went and also how they felt about your problems, you know?
00:26:39
AL
Yeah.
00:26:47
AL
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:47
Jeff Stein
So absolutely go right on in with the brands, go for it.
00:26:51
AL
With that, it is a four four. It's a four by eight ah Laguna ah Swift machine. um It does have a vacuum table.
00:27:00
Jeff Stein
i that's so cool
00:27:02
AL
ah It does not have a tool changer. The Swift, ah when I purchased mine in twenty twenty twenty eighteen, twenty sixteen.
00:27:13
AL
Wow. 2016. Yeah. um The tool changer was not an option for the Swift. It was their kind of stripped down entry level commercial machine, if if you will.
00:27:24
Jeff Stein
That's so cool.
00:27:27
AL
um It was a three horsepower liquid cooled we have since we just recently upgraded it to a six horsepower air cooled spindle Still no tool changer, but it is my first and only CNC machine. So I started with a monster um
00:27:45
Jeff Stein
You sure did.
00:27:46
AL
It was a kind of a go big or go home kind of opportunity. A friend a dear friend of ours ah kind of helped us into this, you know, endeavor. and it's ah it's ah it's ah It's a monster. We got some other Laguna equipment when we purchased that, dust collector, sander, and things like that. The other two pieces of tech that I use, the next after the CNC, a few years after that, we invested in a 100 watt CO2 laser, also Laguna.
00:28:17
AL
um It's they make one bigger we we went with the hundred watt co2 and then just this past year Earlier this spring we added a thunder Fiber laser the Aurora 50 watt Aurora 8 50 watt fiber laser It's
00:28:38
Jeff Stein
I'm going to go on record as being jealous. I would like a, I'd like a 50 watt fiber laser. I'm not sure what I would do with that damn thing, but damn it. I would like one.
00:28:51
AL
Yeah, there it's a, well, it's a, it's a new animal. So I'm, I'm learning it now. The cool thing about the, or one of the cool things about the fiber laser is it came with a rotary.
00:29:02
AL
So like I have literally, you, you can rotary the tiniest.
00:29:02
Jeff Stein
Hmm.
00:29:07
AL
It's a little tiny, like you could do pen barrels with it.
00:29:11
Jeff Stein
I know a guy I have been watching do exactly that with his, uh, I don't remember.
00:29:12
AL
oh
00:29:17
AL
Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:20
Jeff Stein
I think he's got the a hundred watt, uh, thunder laser. It'd be ah Austin from high caliber craftsmen and he's, he, he, he makes pens and he has been doing an engravings with the thunder laser on his pen barrels.
00:29:33
AL
Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:39
Jeff Stein
So you're, you're dead on.
00:29:39
AL
Yeah.
00:29:41
Jeff Stein
I've been watching somebody do it.
00:29:41
AL
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I've even done a couple of, uh, like, uh, 30 odd six shells, like with the, with the, uh, with the navigation, you know, like this is where I shot my first deer or whatever, you know, and they keep it as a, as a little trophy for their case or whatever.
00:29:47
Jeff Stein
Okay.
00:29:57
AL
But yeah, the, it'll do all the way down to brass, you know, even. Um, so it's, I've done some challenge coin work with it. Like I said, it's relatively new in my shop. Um, it, and it's just like a shop, you know, any of these tools, as soon as you buy it, you want the bigger one, you know.
00:30:17
Jeff Stein
Yeah.
00:30:18
AL
You're ready to go like I'm ready to go to 100 watt immediately. But yeah, it's a lot of fun. We're trying to figure out how to make the the the most money we can, obviously. I mean, we're we're in business to stay alive.
00:30:35
AL
but I'm actually, you said something in the beginning of your intro kind of about being an artist and I'm kind of leaning into becoming more art driven with the CNC and with the lasers as well. um It seems to be more more welcomed, you know, there's a There's a cabinet shop on every corner.
00:31:00
AL
you know It seems to be anymore.
00:31:00
Jeff Stein
right
00:31:02
AL
anymore So it's it's great. I've tried to work for those people and without very good acceptance.
00:31:06
Jeff Stein
Right.
00:31:10
AL
you know like I actually had a cabinet maker say, I'm not in business to make you money. And I was like, wow, that's really interesting because I'm in business to make you money.
00:31:18
Jeff Stein
Right.
00:31:19
AL
it And he just kind of looked at me dumbfounded and i'm like, oh you obviously don't get it. So we're we're obviously We're not a fit here Yeah, yeah Yeah Right, right, right one of my favorite statements is a tide raises all boats, you know It's uh, you know if we all help each other out we can all be better but some people don't It kind of it
00:31:24
Jeff Stein
This is, you know what I mean? It should be a symbiotic relationship where you're both, you're you're both seeing an advantage to doing this. If you're not, then there's no point in one of you doing it.
00:31:42
Jeff Stein
It does.
00:31:48
Jeff Stein
um
00:31:50
AL
You know, I know that's not the the subject matter, but it it just bums me out to to deal with people like that. It's like, oh, it could have been so much smoother.
00:32:01
Jeff Stein
so subject area is vague. You know, yeah, there's there's a difference between saying there's a primary focus in our conversations to the, we can't talk about anything else is a completely different, you know, absolute conversations go where they go.
00:32:04
AL
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:16
AL
Sure. Sure. So.
Business Challenges and Evolution
00:32:21
AL
Yeah, yeah, so i'm uh, i'm a i'm a digital fabricator and my my focus has been i'm not 100 100 if that makes sense yet we my wife and I own a landscape business which we are kind of phasing out in the next season or two and then We will be more reliant on the woodworking business uh more full-time if you will so I've kind of designed my business to serve other people, like if you need widgets cut for your product, I want to be the guy that cut your widgets, you know.
00:32:58
AL
um And now the last few months I've been leaning into like carving, you know, 3D art and stuff like that for myself and.
00:33:05
Jeff Stein
Yeah, I've seen a lot of reliefs going by, mostly in your stories, but you had some really, really good looking stuff going by I see lately.
00:33:13
AL
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:19
AL
Yeah, I appreciate that.
00:33:20
Jeff Stein
and
00:33:20
AL
Yeah. Yeah, it's fun. I just love like it's it seems to be more. I mean, I love handing a box of parts to somebody, you know, because I know they're going to go home and they're going to, you know, fulfill their their orders or whatever they're doing with them.
00:33:35
AL
But man, when you walk in the shop and you blow off the sawdust and see that that carving that you've been working on for, you know, nine hours, it's like.
00:33:44
Jeff Stein
Right.
00:33:45
AL
Now I can't sell it because it's mine.
00:33:48
Jeff Stein
Right. now Now, now imagine if that nine hour carve you you ran it in three hour segments over the course of three nights.
00:33:59
Jeff Stein
It's like, man, I got a half a week into this and look at how awesome, you see that's that see, that's the extra oomph of excitement that you can get out of working with an underpowered tool.
00:33:59
AL
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:13
AL
Sure, sure. Hey, I've i've got to shape Oco XXL on my basement. I should plug it in and see about running it.
00:34:21
Jeff Stein
I'm sure it'll work great. You got to tighten the belts tighter than you would expect you would need to. And then it'll work just great.
00:34:28
AL
Yeah, yeah. Nice, nice.
00:34:30
Jeff Stein
you you I think it would drive you up the wall though. I mean, after gone from three and six power spindles with a vacuum table down to what is literally an unbranded Makita trim router.
00:34:46
AL
Yeah.
00:34:46
Jeff Stein
And that's it's the is just a little piece of steel that's got ah you know ah two two cuts made it through it.
00:34:46
AL
Yeah.
00:34:57
Jeff Stein
Uh, you know, like, like a Phillips driver would go into it and the, the, the collet has never seen anything that even looks like an yeah ah ER scale.
00:34:58
AL
Yeah.
00:35:07
Jeff Stein
So.
00:35:08
AL
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I've got a I've got a guy who lives right up the road. Maybe a mile young young, you know mid 20s kid and He just got a Chinese branded off branded.
00:35:22
AL
I can't even say the name of it, but it's a little 20 by 23 axis and You know, he's asking for help and advice and everything and I finally talked him into he got vetric software um and I said listen, this is the
00:35:26
Jeff Stein
Okay.
00:35:39
AL
there's There's five other major softwares, but Vetriq kind of does everything, you know, and works with everybody. And it's what I know, I can help you.
00:35:49
Jeff Stein
Right, right. If you, if you want support, you better use the software.
00:35:50
AL
But he...
00:35:52
Jeff Stein
I know that that's a good one right there.
00:35:53
AL
Exactly, but it's... It's so amazing to like talk to him and I'm doing that. He's using the, you know, the default and all the software is millimeters and metric and all that.
00:36:04
AL
And I've got to convert it. Cause I don't do, I don't do millimeter and that kind of stuff, but he's running, you know, i'm I'm doing the conversions and I'm like, wait, wait, wait, you're only, you're running nine inches a minute.
00:36:06
Jeff Stein
Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:17
AL
you know which to me, but it it also makes me stop and go, wow, you can do the same exact thing at nine inches a minute that I'm doing at 300 inches a minute.
00:36:17
Jeff Stein
yeah
00:36:29
AL
It's just your time.
00:36:30
Jeff Stein
It is exactly that.
00:36:31
AL
You know, you know, these machines are all capable.
00:36:33
Jeff Stein
It is just extra time.
00:36:35
AL
Yeah, the machines is capable of amazing, amazing stuff within its constraint. I mean, 20 by 20 inches is that's the biggest thing you're going to make, you know, but.
00:36:43
Jeff Stein
Right, right. Well, well, depending on your creativity, you've got options to either and but potentially potentially you could slide the piece through, you know, as a pass through and you could work in increments of 20.
00:36:51
AL
Yeah, you could tile. Mm hmm.
00:37:01
Jeff Stein
Or you could just split the damn project into parts and then, you know, have like an overlapping edge that just snap the two pieces together when you're done with them.
00:37:01
AL
Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:12
Jeff Stein
So I mean, there, but yeah, I mean, it's a limitation.
00:37:12
AL
Yeah.
00:37:13
AL
Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:16
Jeff Stein
and And the same thing with the low power and the low size is that they're just limitations. They're not limitations on what you can do. They're just limitations on how much shit you have to go through to actually make it work.
00:37:32
AL
Right, right.
00:37:33
Jeff Stein
Because I mean, something,
00:37:33
AL
Well, that's kind of where that's kind of where I was going. I want to I want to make sure that we're encouraging. I don't want people to think you have to have a four by eight machine to do anything. You know, you can do I am I am getting blown out of the water skill set wise by men and women out there with a tenth of the equipment that I have.
00:37:42
Jeff Stein
no
00:37:47
Jeff Stein
No.
00:37:55
AL
Like it's ah it makes me ashamed of myself sometimes.
00:37:59
Jeff Stein
Yeah, there's some amazing people out there though. And no matter, no matter how smart you are, there is somebody else out there that's just makes us look like idiots.
00:38:08
AL
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:12
Jeff Stein
I mean, people, people throw the word.
00:38:13
AL
the Makes me want to meet him.
00:38:17
Jeff Stein
mean Yeah. I mean, people people throw the word genius around all the time. I mean, I've had a dozen people on the internet call me a genius, but.
00:38:28
Jeff Stein
I've actually met a genius and I am absolutely not.
00:38:31
AL
and you And you're not it? you know Okay.
00:38:34
Jeff Stein
um um
00:38:36
AL
I'm just going to assume that I am also not just by context here.
00:38:40
Jeff Stein
Well, I'm going to say that um you're on the similar level to me where you can expect to be one of the smarter people in any general room.
00:38:57
AL
ah
00:38:57
Jeff Stein
But when when you meet someone, when when you meet somebody that is an absolute pure genius, it is it is not like trying to figure out if this guy's a little bit smarter than me or not.
00:38:59
AL
ah're small They're small rooms.
00:39:10
Jeff Stein
It's like suddenly you realize that he's and that that you as a smart person is running about half the speed of the other person. and I, I've met one and I was absolutely floored by this guy. He was working as an electrical engineer in a data center, but he was talking to me about having built motherboards from scratch for a computer in the 1970s and.
00:39:42
Jeff Stein
I'd had enough computer knowledge. I mean, i got and at some point I earned and an A plus and an MCSE, which are certifications that say, you know how to take a computer apart, put it together and install shit on it.
00:39:58
Jeff Stein
So he was happy to be able to talk about some of the things he'd done was someone who understood at least half of what he was saying.
00:39:58
AL
the
00:40:08
Jeff Stein
And he only had to slow it down a little bit for me. And, but damn, a genius is some impressive shit. Hopefully we meet meet some of them on the show.
00:40:20
AL
Yeah, I think is it proper to think of?
00:40:20
Jeff Stein
I, I liked.
00:40:23
AL
I mean, again, I'm off. I'll go off on a tangent here. Like, can you be a genius at a thing? You know what I mean?
00:40:31
Jeff Stein
um
00:40:31
AL
Like, I don't know the proper terminology because I am I are not a genius. But I mean, like I've met people that um just blow me away with their skill sets and their ability to wrap their mind around Well, I'll sing some praises to the weird guy.
00:40:50
AL
You know, you it it takes a special kind of person to look at a three axis machine and go, oh, there's another axis. I just need to cut the hole to make it.
00:41:01
Jeff Stein
right right
00:41:01
AL
ah You know, when you when you started group is my favorite project you've done, you know, and just watching Watching you problem solve your way through that entire project.
00:41:12
AL
I think that's what makes a person a genius It's just how having the information and the ability to see that you need to apply that information somewhere, you know um So
00:41:21
Jeff Stein
right
00:41:26
AL
I think people are geniuses on minor levels. And then there are people who can just comprehend everything, you know, and they're, and they're and they're running at a clock speed so much more than us.
00:41:33
Jeff Stein
i think I think the term we're missing here, when you're a genius in one specific area, I believe the term is savant.
00:41:48
Jeff Stein
where you're just an absolute wizard at one specific thing. It's like, you know, uh, uh, Rain Man that the movie, it was about the, the, the, the special guy that had all kinds of special needs.
00:41:59
AL
He had numbers. yeah yeah
00:42:06
Jeff Stein
And then his brother who was a savant, which is a joke, making fun of Tom Cruise there, but, um,
00:42:18
AL
i had the i I had to follow you there for a second.
00:42:21
Jeff Stein
Well, it's, it's, it's not exactly a current movie reference to be fair, but, uh, right.
00:42:21
AL
but i'm with you yeah we're we're We're showing our age.
00:42:30
Jeff Stein
Yeah. Um, Oh, yes.
00:42:32
AL
put foot
00:42:37
Jeff Stein
Software is definitely something we haven't really hit too hard. You've definitely said you're, you're, you're a Vectrix man and that
00:42:44
AL
Yeah, I'm using a spire now which is our 3d version of electric vcar pro
00:42:48
Jeff Stein
Right.
Software Preferences: Fusion 360 vs Vectrix
00:42:50
AL
yeah Mm
00:42:50
Jeff Stein
It's just the fancy version that does all the extra shit in the 3d rotaries.
00:42:53
AL
-hmm.
00:42:54
Jeff Stein
Um, I'm, I'm familiar with Vectrix.
00:42:54
AL
Mm-hmm
00:42:57
Jeff Stein
I've not used it for a project. I've like installed a couple of versions, including aspire and like played with the demo, but I, but you know, they'll let you play with it and do some stuff, but you can't actually generate paths with it.
00:43:08
AL
Yeah.
00:43:14
AL
Yeah, it's it's fu it's fusion 360 missing 90%.
00:43:14
Jeff Stein
So.
00:43:19
Jeff Stein
yeah Well, the the the joy of the software is that Vectrix is made for someone who makes CNC projects for a business kind of thing.
00:43:36
AL
Okay.
00:43:36
Jeff Stein
It's made for people that want to do signs or that want to do the usual, you know, ah It's it's got the the v-carve style inlays that lets you hit all the narrow little points anywhere you want and you just feed it one vector design and it will come up with a combination of toolpaths that gets you ah a bottom surface a top surface and a couple of angled surfaces and everything's gonna fit together when you're ready with a little bit of room in the middle for glue and all of that and but and it
00:43:57
AL
yeah
00:44:06
AL
Yeah.
00:44:09
AL
Yeah.
00:44:13
AL
It's called two and a half D.
00:44:15
Jeff Stein
You feed it. Yeah, it's it's two and a half D is exactly what it is. And it's, ah you know, contours and pockets.
00:44:20
AL
Mm hmm.
00:44:25
Jeff Stein
And it does that in a very user friendly, just import your design.
00:44:32
AL
Mm hmm.
00:44:36
Jeff Stein
Give it a few basic pieces of information and in a few clicks, tell it what kinds of things, what kind of bits you want and what kind of, how big the block of wood you're carving it from. And it will just generate some stuff out for you and it'll do a lot of stuff really kind of automatically.
00:44:55
Jeff Stein
Um, and that's why you use it.
00:44:55
AL
That's why I use it.
00:44:58
Jeff Stein
And it's because you're making seeing standard CNC style products to sell the people that are 90%, you know, contours and pockets.
00:45:13
Jeff Stein
And then they get, you know, aftercare and, you know, you know, painting and finishing and all the fancy sanding and all the happy shit you get to do later.
00:45:21
AL
Yep.
00:45:22
Jeff Stein
But, uh, And thats that's why that software works so well for you. But I never really wanted to make the sign.
00:45:27
AL
Yeah.
00:45:32
Jeff Stein
I mean, I've made some signs. I've made a handful of signs.
00:45:36
AL
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:45:36
Jeff Stein
It's not anywhere close to a passion of mine. Um, my intent of a CNC has never really been to make signs or anything. My, my lure is that as a smart guy, I try to find complicated things to pose as a challenge for myself.
00:46:04
Jeff Stein
i john I don't break out of sweat trying to tie my shoes in the morning and I had a really good time making some signs with contours and pockets for ah about four projects and then I'm like, what else can this thing do?
00:46:24
AL
Right.
00:46:26
Jeff Stein
I've figured that out. I've mastered that. What's next? And the wonderful thing about CNC is that there's so many things that are next that you have to figure out.
00:46:37
Jeff Stein
And there's so many variables that are just all over the map and a Especially, I mean, I started with, you know, the shape Oco standard carbide software at first, and then I tried out carve Co for like one project, did a relief out of their project library of a pumpkin. I thought that was kind of cool.
00:47:05
Jeff Stein
but it was still all very much out of the box. Here's your clip art, throw it on, scale it, push the button, and it kind of does things for you. And it it didn't It didn't trip my sense of complicated. It wasn't complicated enough for me to get the endorphin rush of having figured something complicated out. and Because I mean, that's that's the fun part for me. The fun part for me is that there's something I want to do. It's incredibly complicated and I need to figure out how to make that happen.
00:47:43
Jeff Stein
And to challenge myself, that problem has to be increasingly difficult every time. So after one project in Carveco and about three or four or five in Carbide, I tried out Fusion and I found it delightfully complicated and absolutely difficult to work with, which
00:48:08
AL
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:48:10
Jeff Stein
Made it feel like a sense of accomplishment when I did figure out how to get it to do shit for me but and once you figure out how you get that to do shit the fact that you can get it to do all kinds of weird shit because it's it's it's not designed to be a CNC sign makers
00:48:18
AL
Right. right
00:48:34
Jeff Stein
click here click next click next click finish kind of program it's made for like machinists this is made to set up paths for i mean i i don't know that you would program a tormach with this shit but you absolutely could if you had like a small desktop kind of
00:48:52
AL
Right.
00:48:55
AL
I actually. Yeah, I actually had a yeah ah it's a light fixture base like a like a like a sconce mount um that a client gave me that they had made out of porcelain and he said.
00:49:04
Jeff Stein
Yeah.
00:49:10
AL
or they said can you make this out of wood on your CNC machine and it's two-sided milling but the angles you know with porcelain it's round rounded and and it took I had to find somebody that could run fusion and they actually made a they made up a pattern
00:49:17
Jeff Stein
No.
00:49:31
AL
and then they pinned it somehow, and then they just basically drug the pattern around in a circle and made this piece for me.
00:49:37
Jeff Stein
Right.
00:49:39
AL
you know And then they they were able to convert it into a file that I could then put into Aspire and turn into a toolpath. But yeah, that it that definitely showed me the limitations of Aspire real quick.
00:49:46
Jeff Stein
Right.
00:49:53
Jeff Stein
Yeah. That's, that's why I like fusion because I mean, fusion being a machinists software.
00:49:54
AL
yes
00:50:01
Jeff Stein
I mean, first it's got, huh?
00:50:02
AL
um for Did I say fusion? so Did I say they use fusion to make the circle?
00:50:06
Jeff Stein
No.
00:50:09
Jeff Stein
Yeah, you did.
00:50:09
AL
I'm sorry. Okay, I'm sorry.
00:50:10
Jeff Stein
You did.
00:50:11
AL
I'm sorry.
00:50:11
Jeff Stein
You did say they, they, they modeled it with fusion and then passed it to you to carve and aspire.
00:50:11
AL
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:16
AL
Correct, correct, correct.
00:50:17
Jeff Stein
Yeah, you got it right.
00:50:18
AL
Yeah, I'm sorry. Thank you.
00:50:19
Jeff Stein
and don And yeah, because I mean, I really like the Fusion because it's got, I mean, obviously you can't do a lot of the modeling in the CNC software. You're supposed to feed it something that you've already got done. So I mean, Fusion is great for the fact that you can model and the fact that you can you can design vectors and you can export vectors to a laser, you can export models to a CNC, you can export models to a 3D printer. It's a Swiss Army knife of anything that you could do in the way of machining. It can do it, and especially if you pay for the expensive versions. But
00:51:03
Jeff Stein
That's where you got to get the four and five axis. You got to throw out the big cash for those guys. But you know but but the other advantage for it for me was it's like, well, when I wanted to upgrade, do I upgrade to Vectrix, which is an instant, $2,200 a year?
00:51:20
Jeff Stein
Or I could jump into fusion for absolutely free by clicking the hobby license, which don't get me wrong. They hide that little son of a bitch, but all the way down at the bottom of the page, there's a link for the free hobby license version of fusion.
00:51:38
AL
See I've been wanting to try it.
00:51:38
Jeff Stein
So it is the, uh, It is actually there. you When you go to the the the versions in the pricing page, scroll all the way down and go up about two inch past the general disclaimer shit at the bottom.
00:51:54
Jeff Stein
And the very last actual thing on the page is the link to the hobby free hobby license, which will do basically anything.
00:52:01
AL
Interesting.
00:52:03
Jeff Stein
I mean, I used nothing but the free hobby version. right up until the time that I got the rotary machine last year, at which point to do the actual fourth axis rotary path you need to pay for the upgrades. Up to that point, everything I did was free.
Filament vs Resin 3D Printers
00:52:22
Jeff Stein
And the fact that it's for machining says that you can, you you can throw in an object and say, say you throw in a, a cube, say, say, oh, it's like, I made a six sided die this summer.
00:52:23
AL
Yeah.
00:52:37
Jeff Stein
And, uh, you know, I use model a six sided cube and then, you know, you round it off your corners and then you, yeah you put some pip holes in it. I don't know if you knew, but the dots on a die are called a pip.
00:52:50
AL
a PIP, pi P-I-P.
00:52:51
Jeff Stein
a pip yep pip the the little the little dots on each side of a six sided die are called a pip so i mean and then you put the pip holes on each side of the die
00:52:52
AL
Interesting.
00:53:02
Jeff Stein
But then when I come over to the machine and start to carve it, you can you can go when you're in manufacturer mode and create a new setup and say that you can spin the part around in 3D space, and then you can say this side is going to be face up for these operations. And whatever side you've got on the top,
00:53:24
Jeff Stein
Then you put that part in the machine that way and it'll carve whatever's supposed to be on that side of the machine because you're viewing it from that angle. And then you can create a new setup and say, now we're going to carve it.
00:53:35
AL
Mm hmm.
00:53:40
Jeff Stein
And what was previous, the left side is now the top. So we're rotating the piece 90 degrees in the computer.
00:53:50
Jeff Stein
and on the CNC bed and carving it from a different side.
00:53:52
AL
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:53:57
Jeff Stein
It's the same thing you're doing with a two-sided carving, except in the software, you've got an infinite number of sides and angles and directions that you can go forward, back, left, right in any direction.
00:54:13
Jeff Stein
If you can define an angle, you can define that angle is facing up. Good luck, fixturing the damn thing in the machine that way. But I mean, the software is absolutely good for it.
00:54:27
AL
we're doing what we're told to do
00:54:27
Jeff Stein
And and yeah you know what's fun about the whole mixture here is that one of the reasons that I'm going to say that you were a really good pick for me for a co-host is that our skills, our machines, our purposes and our software.
00:54:53
AL
We're doing what we're told to do.
00:54:55
Jeff Stein
are all similar but not the same i mean we have the same types of machines but they're vastly different i mean i've got the little toy cnc it's not a toy but okay it's a trim router it's got belts say no more say no more it's got belts and well while you've got a huge four by eight machine named hannibal with a six horsepower spindle on it that
00:55:09
AL
Yeah.
00:55:14
AL
but It's not a production. Yeah, yeah.
00:55:18
AL
about
00:55:25
Jeff Stein
Breaks bits the size of my wrist so and while I'll spend six weeks on some weird fantastic complicated art project your history has been more prone to kicking out production and having customers and doing sales and pushing for production where I'm pushing for slow painstaking art you're pushing for production and where
00:55:48
AL
Yeah.
00:55:54
Jeff Stein
I've been a fusion guy in super deep for the last, you know, pushing four years now. You've been putting years in on Vectrix. So that gives us differing perspectives of everything. And I mean,
00:56:16
Jeff Stein
I've got a rotary, which you don't. I've got a toy laser, which does, you know, minimal, small. yeah I mean, I, I've only got, you know, what ah about an eight inch by eight inch square area that I can engrave things on lightly.
00:56:32
Jeff Stein
If I do enough passes versus you've got the thunder laser and the, was it 60 watt CO2?
00:56:35
AL
yeah
00:56:40
AL
100 watt co2
00:56:42
Jeff Stein
ah is the Oh, the hundred. Okay. That one was the hundred and the right.
00:56:45
AL
That's 24 that's 24 by 30 and then the believe it or not the fibers They're not as big as you think that I only have one lens. So i'm I'm about half by four and a half inches um I could do I can do a lens to get me out to about 10 by 10, but you lose a lot of ah clarity um With that um And then you can go all the way down to a 2 by 2 which
00:56:58
Jeff Stein
Right. Right.
00:57:14
AL
that like if you're gonna do challenge coins you can cut you can cut right into breath you know with that quickly yeah yeah yeah oh yeah yeah yeah
00:57:17
Jeff Stein
Right. Exactly. They do the deep cuts, the deep cuts, if you run it enough time. Exactly. But so, so it's like, you've got all the tools that I don't have. And then I've got like the rotary and experience with both types of 3d printing that you don't have. And our software is I use this software you use that software.
00:57:47
Jeff Stein
And it and you're you you're doing production work.
00:57:49
AL
covering a lot of the bases.
00:57:54
Jeff Stein
I'm doing painstakingly slow, complicated artwork. And it's just, yes, we compliment each other. I think that ah between us, we come out with a rounded off, you know, rounded off pair of nut jobs.
00:58:11
AL
Yeah, i' I'm pretty round.
00:58:13
Jeff Stein
Well, that happens. That happens to the best of us.
00:58:17
AL
Yeah, I've been working a long time on this shape.
00:58:20
Jeff Stein
and Well, you know, round is a shape. You can always be in shape.
00:58:23
AL
They're out in the shape.
00:58:24
Jeff Stein
You can always be in shape, whether it's, you know, spheroid.
00:58:25
AL
Yeah. Yeah.
00:58:29
Jeff Stein
Well, you know, go with oblate and spheroid.
00:58:32
AL
yeah Yeah. I'm actually on a journey. I'm down. I'm down quite a bit of weight actually. So, but that's a, that's a behind the scenes journey.
00:58:42
Jeff Stein
That's quite all right.
00:58:44
AL
Yeah.
00:58:44
Jeff Stein
You are allowed to have behind the scenes life journeys.
00:58:45
AL
Yeah.
00:58:49
Jeff Stein
We're allowed to do stuff.
00:58:49
AL
Yeah.
00:58:51
Jeff Stein
We're allowed.
00:58:52
AL
So do you have any other? Are there other smaller? I shouldn't say smaller, but like we talked about the big three, are there other digital fabrication a machines out there?
00:59:07
Jeff Stein
there are definitely a lot of crazy stuff out there. And I'm absolutely looking forward to finding people and talking to them about people who own these.
00:59:11
AL
Yeah.
00:59:18
Jeff Stein
But I mean, there's crickets, crickets are crickets are just like, They're the little crafty version of the CNC because you can do anything with those damn things.
00:59:34
AL
Yeah.
00:59:34
Jeff Stein
You know, they cut paper, they cut cardboard, they cut vinyl and stickers and yeah i they do a bunch of shit.
00:59:35
AL
Yeah. Yeah.
00:59:43
Jeff Stein
So no, I've never had a cricket.
00:59:44
AL
Do you have a cricket? Do you use crickets? No, I don't know.
00:59:48
Jeff Stein
I've never caught onto that one, but
00:59:49
AL
Me either.
00:59:52
Jeff Stein
I do consider it digital fabrication because you're programming the shit in the computer and you feed it a piece of blank something and it does what you ask for it and you get value out of that.
00:59:55
AL
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:00:06
Jeff Stein
whether you're Whether you're making stickers that you want to hand out to somebody or whether you're cutting vinyl to use as a masking for something or whether you're doing
01:00:06
AL
yeah
01:00:17
Jeff Stein
paper crafting projects. or i mean that's the The world is endless with a number of things you can do with a cricket.
01:00:25
AL
Yeah.
01:00:26
AL
Yeah, and I like it because it's like I've seen it at a at an art store that I buy like acrylic paint at I've seen they have like aisles of cricket stuff and
01:00:26
Jeff Stein
and and there's
01:00:36
AL
Again, while it's small on a smaller scale, it's they have designed everything. Oh, you want to make this? Here's the material and the size is already made, ready to go. Just slide them in, you know, and then let to your point, just concentrate on your little design, your little clip art and your computer. We've already got the vinyl cut to size for you or the cardboard or the paper. I like the, I really like the idea and I've never done it with my CNC. I keep threatening to, but like,
01:01:04
AL
You can put a marker or pens in a cricket, right? And actually draw with them.
01:01:07
Jeff Stein
Yeah, I believe so.
01:01:08
AL
Yeah. I'd like to try that with Hannibal with a big Sharpie.
01:01:11
Jeff Stein
I did that. hey That'd be hilarious.
01:01:16
AL
ah
01:01:16
Jeff Stein
Uh, I, that was actually, uh, I I've done it once and it was part of the shape OCO setup process.
01:01:21
AL
Yeah.
01:01:27
Jeff Stein
That was the initial test to see that things are working before you actually turn on anything.
01:01:29
AL
yeah
01:01:36
Jeff Stein
You're, you, you'd grab a Sharpie and you like. tape it to the spindle and then you program it to, you know, you said, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:01:45
AL
It drew the logo, right? It drew the logo. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
01:01:49
Jeff Stein
You've probably seen a lot of people draw the Shape Oko logo in in Sharpie.
01:01:50
AL
yeah
01:01:54
AL
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:01:55
Jeff Stein
is because that's like the last stage of the setup to prove that everything is working. They tell you to tape a Sharpie on there, zero it out on a piece of paper and push the go button and it'll do the shape Oco logo. And that way you know that the X, Y and Z are all working properly before you have the dangers of spinning bits and pieces of wood that are improperly anchored to the bed and You know, all the other dumb things you're going to do the first time you turn one of these on.
01:02:28
Jeff Stein
So I have done one thing and I probably still have it floating around the shop here.
01:02:28
AL
yeah
01:02:34
Jeff Stein
And it says shape. I'll go on it. And so it is absolutely something you could stick a marker in there and clamp it down or duct tape it on there.
01:02:38
AL
Yeah You know, but you know, that's an issue, you know, you may you just maybe think about like
01:02:42
Jeff Stein
You could absolutely do it.
01:02:48
AL
Like I've missed some of the this isn't a poor elf thing at all, but like I've missed some of the, you know, jumping right in with a four by eight. I didn't have to learn how to do it on a 30 by 30 inch or anything like that.
01:03:02
AL
Another thing I didn't do and have never done is put a piece of equipment together.
01:03:07
Jeff Stein
Okay. and
01:03:08
AL
I mean, to a point, you know, I would just got a new we just got a new saw stop.
01:03:11
Jeff Stein
Right.
01:03:14
AL
You got to put the wings on it and the legs on it, stuff like that.
01:03:15
Jeff Stein
Right. Right.
01:03:16
AL
But I had to put a plug on the end of the cord on Hannibal. You know, I didn't have to build the gantry and tighten belts and set screws and make sure my Z was square.
01:03:23
Jeff Stein
right
01:03:30
AL
And I didn't have to do any of that. It was literally quote unquote, you know, out of the box.
01:03:36
Jeff Stein
right
01:03:36
AL
You know, the laser showed up. I had to put the tube in it and fill it with water. I had to put. I had to put a plug on the on the fiber laser and hook up the the venting, you know, the the exhaust.
01:03:49
Jeff Stein
Right.
01:03:50
AL
You know, so I've never until just a month or two ago, the bearings went out of my Y axis on Hannibal.
01:04:01
AL
And I just said, you know, I got one locked up let's and there's six bearings, you know, cart cartridge bearings on this on these tracks. Let's go ahead and just change them all. And I just dove into tearing apart a four by eight CNC machine and backed up about an hour and a half in it going, what the hell am I doing?
01:04:21
Jeff Stein
Well, i I I was watching on your stories there.
01:04:21
AL
But I got her I got them all back together.
01:04:26
Jeff Stein
And I think that, oh, my God, what am I doing? Moment is when ah a handful of the little tiny bearings started dropping out all over the place.
01:04:34
AL
Oh, they went.
01:04:35
Jeff Stein
That was that was the oh, shit, what have I done moment?
01:04:38
AL
Yeah, yeah.
01:04:39
Jeff Stein
I saw that go by.
01:04:41
AL
Yeah, there's over 100 ball bearings in one cartridge by the way ah Gone I'm still I'm still blowing them around with the leaf blower But so So I so I missed you know, I missed out on oh I can't imagine the the what's that one machine it comes like an erector set.
01:04:44
Jeff Stein
Exactly. and And you lost a decent number of them all over the place. Yeah, I hear you. That's a good way to work a shop.
01:05:09
Jeff Stein
Oh, Jesus.
01:05:09
AL
Uh
01:05:09
Jeff Stein
Yeah. The.
01:05:11
AL
Avid. Avids.
01:05:13
Jeff Stein
was it yeah there's a there's a few of them and there's the one that everybody used to complain about that came out before shape oko um
01:05:21
AL
X-Carve.
01:05:22
Jeff Stein
Yeah, the original X-Carve, the one that came with like 6,000 baggies of different screws.
01:05:24
AL
Yeah. Yeah.
01:05:29
AL
yeah
01:05:29
Jeff Stein
And it's like every screw is a different goddamn size for a different thing.
01:05:31
AL
questions
01:05:34
Jeff Stein
And it's like, ge yeah it was supposed to be like a, what, a 60 hour assembly process or some shit.
01:05:34
AL
great
01:05:41
Jeff Stein
It's like, Jesus Christ.
01:05:42
AL
Yeah. Yeah.
01:05:43
Jeff Stein
I mean, I.
01:05:43
AL
I heard.
01:05:44
Jeff Stein
I had a box full of parts, but you know, I had a left, right, and center on gantry, you know, but I mean, all the ends were on the gantry, all the sub assemblies were already sub assembled, you know?
01:05:55
AL
Yeah.
01:05:59
AL
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:06:00
Jeff Stein
and the
01:06:00
AL
I heard, uh, I heard Jimmy DiResta on their podcast the other day talking about, he goes, remember when you joined YouTube and you got a free X card?
01:06:10
Jeff Stein
That is about right. i'm glad i didn't join x I'm glad I didn't join YouTube that early.
01:06:16
AL
Right. Right.
01:06:17
Jeff Stein
Yeah, I don't know.
01:06:18
AL
But so many people, we actually know somebody that had an X carbon that just, it's just stayed in the box. They just like open the first box and we're like, yeah, no.
01:06:27
Jeff Stein
Yeah, ah yeah, exactly.
01:06:28
AL
And then three years later, right.
01:06:30
Jeff Stein
that is exactly the case. um You know, I feel sorry for those people, but I mean, that's the difference between wanting a tool and wanting a project to put together your tool.
01:06:41
AL
dry
01:06:42
Jeff Stein
Sometimes you just want your damn tool.
01:06:42
AL
Right. Right. Right.
01:06:44
Jeff Stein
And sometimes you want to you want to be so intimately aware of every screw that you can put it together from the beginning.
01:06:45
AL
Yeah.
01:06:51
Jeff Stein
I mean, maybe you're one of those Lego erector set kind of guys that is just going to have the best 40 hours of your life assembling this thing with 64 pages of poorly written English and badly drawn diagrams, which, you know, is the way everything comes these days.
01:06:58
AL
Right Exactly, yeah, yeah
01:07:19
AL
but Hey, at least you're getting 60 pages. I always get the QR code.
01:07:24
Jeff Stein
Oh, Jesus. Yeah, I know. I'm I'm working on a garage door opener for for the I've got a big garage door where there's been an opener and there's a little single door on the side for the third space and it's got its own door and I just got a a garage door opener for it and I open it and I scanned through the 12 or 15, maybe 16 page book.
01:07:53
Jeff Stein
I went through that book like six times front to back before I found that the actual instructions on how to put this thing together were in the QR code where I got to go download some damn app and then I have to download
01:08:07
AL
yep not
01:08:09
Jeff Stein
the specific brand and model to get the instructions to step by step on my phone, learn how to put the garage door opener up. And it pissed me off because I mean, there's like 16 pages and the 16 pages are all focused on how to fine tune and adjust the height to make sure it stops at the right point and to make sure that the the reflectors are in the right place.
01:08:32
AL
Yep. How about we get it together first?
01:08:37
Jeff Stein
So the entire book they give me was nothing but how to fine tune things after it's completely installed. And on the first or second page somewhere, there's a little barcode.
01:08:49
Jeff Stein
This is, oh, if you actually want to know how to put this piece of shit together, scan the barcode, install the app, and then try to look at it on your phone while it reads the steps to you as what the hell you're supposed to do.
01:09:02
Jeff Stein
Oh God, tell me about it.
01:09:02
AL
Yeah, it's the adventure
01:09:05
Jeff Stein
Tell me about it. So yeah, the two things that I've been assembling lately that I've got complaints to is a garage door opener complaint is no goddamned instructions in the box.
01:09:19
Jeff Stein
You got to use the phone for that.
01:09:20
AL
Yeah.
01:09:21
Jeff Stein
And my other complaint is I just put together a couple of those steel sheds that you put out in the yard.
01:09:29
AL
Yeah.
01:09:30
Jeff Stein
you know, just the the slap together panels, you just bolt them together out in the yard or whatever, you know, I i got a smaller one as a shelter for the goats and and slightly larger one to fill with hay to keep it dry for the winter for the goats. And now a mini donkey because apparently and Things just yeah.
01:09:51
AL
Why not?
01:09:53
Jeff Stein
Yeah, I guess I guess why not um And I'm gonna tell you these things are not too bad to put together. They're pretty easy I don't have any major complaints about that The problem is is they don't mention the fact that it's an extra six or eight hour project to strip the goddamn plastic off each one of the painted sheets and then oh my god, I just want to I
01:10:15
AL
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
01:10:20
Jeff Stein
Could i pay but I pay an extra $10 to have all my painted pieces come with a piece of thin foam rubber in between them instead of the plastic sheet that I have to pay?
01:10:20
AL
and you can't leave it on there ah so
01:10:32
Jeff Stein
I mean, I would pay $20 extra, $50 extra to get one that doesn't have plastic on the damn thing.
01:10:36
AL
yeah you so
01:10:40
Jeff Stein
That's that's my complaint. Anyway.
01:10:44
AL
ah and you can't leave it on her
01:10:45
Jeff Stein
ah
01:10:49
Jeff Stein
All right. Well, clearly things are spiraling out of control. I guess it's time to jump from a free range into some of our wrap up segments here.
01:10:54
AL
Yeah. All right.
01:10:59
Jeff Stein
Um, first segment we got here is an oldie, but a goodie.
01:11:00
AL
do we got?
01:11:04
Jeff Stein
This is one I've always enjoyed from everybody else's podcast. And I always think the thing of the week is just something that's fun because
01:11:08
AL
like
01:11:13
AL
Right.
01:11:15
Jeff Stein
first it tends to be very supportive of the community where a lot of times the thing, I mean the thing of the week can literally be whatever the hell is on your mind today or whatever's stuck in your head and whatever whatever you've played with recently or something or someone that you would like to shout out because you think they deserve some extra mention.
01:11:22
AL
right
01:11:40
Jeff Stein
um But I mean, a lot of times it does tend to be a member of the community.
01:11:40
AL
Yeah, yeah.
01:11:47
Jeff Stein
So it it does tend to be a supportive kind of thing where we're either suggesting things that our listeners would like, which is also you know helping the listeners out to find cool things and cool people to follow and cool things to watch or listen to.
01:12:05
Jeff Stein
But it's it's helping the the people out that we're referring and hopefully we'll send you know all three of our listeners to go check them out and hopefully that'll help their account in some small way.
01:12:16
AL
yeah yeah Everybody could use three listeners.
01:12:20
Jeff Stein
yeah Why not? what I mean, hopefully we'll, you know, hopefully past the first episode or two, we'll pick up another, you know, a couple extra listeners each episode.
01:12:22
AL
yeah
01:12:30
Jeff Stein
And, you know, maybe by next year, we'll have, you know, 20 or 30.
01:12:31
AL
Yeah. Yeah.
01:12:34
AL
tens of listeners.
01:12:35
Jeff Stein
10 of listeners. Exactly. And
01:12:38
AL
but
01:12:39
Jeff Stein
Well, you just never know. I mean, a lot of pat a lot of podcasts don't gain traction and you just don't know what they're going to do.
01:12:46
AL
Yeah.
01:12:46
Jeff Stein
I think we're going to have an entertaining show and I think we've got an audience of people that's going to appreciate
01:12:48
AL
Yeah. Yeah.
01:12:54
Jeff Stein
the depth of the, you know, tech talk that we actually will dive into here and not just the, the, you know, whether, whether you played with Legos when you were six and how that shaped your path as a maker for the later years.
01:12:55
AL
yeah
01:13:09
AL
Alright, alright.
01:13:12
Jeff Stein
And, you know, I mean, exactly.
01:13:14
AL
Well, I only had three blocks, so I had to, it was a pretty short Lego career.
01:13:21
Jeff Stein
So, um,
01:13:21
AL
yeah my wife my wife did My wife ran into bed earlier, it's late tonight, but um she did ask if she was going to wake up next to somebody famous to tomorrow.
01:13:32
AL
And I said, there's a pretty good chance.
01:13:35
Jeff Stein
Well, you're gonna be famous tomorrow, but the people may not have figured it out yet.
01:13:44
AL
That's true. That's true. So Jeff, what is your thing of the week?
01:13:49
Jeff Stein
Well, my thing of the week is actually not digital fabrication. It's not making, it's not tools. It just happens to be a song that has been stuck in my head for the last month since it came out.
01:13:58
AL
ah
01:14:07
Jeff Stein
And um just just to be random, today's music for me.
01:14:07
AL
Okay.
01:14:12
Jeff Stein
But this came out like a month ago.
01:14:13
AL
okay
01:14:16
Jeff Stein
And from the last artist I ever expected to see a track of music drop from at this point in life is LL Cool J.
01:14:28
Jeff Stein
I mean, I don't know, we remember him from back in the day.
01:14:31
AL
Oh, yeah.
01:14:32
Jeff Stein
You know, he was way back in the day and then he's been on about a dozen TV shows and movies ever since.
01:14:33
AL
Yeah, yeah.
01:14:40
Jeff Stein
But when the hell does he still make music?
01:14:43
AL
Yeah. Yeah.
01:14:44
Jeff Stein
He dropped a track about a month ago featuring Eminem.
01:14:49
AL
Yep.
01:14:49
Jeff Stein
and LL Cool J and emine M&M spit fire. They pass it back and forth and they just, that it it it just goes man.
01:15:03
Jeff Stein
It goes hard and it's a murdergram 2, or dupe, murdergram deuce
01:15:08
AL
Yep.
01:15:11
Jeff Stein
DEUX. Hell, I don't know. It's the second one. Anyway, it's the sequel to his original murdergram from, you know, 60 years ago, or whenever the hell us old people used to be popular in the last time around.
01:15:21
AL
god Oh, God. Don't say things like that, man.
01:15:25
Jeff Stein
and
01:15:26
AL
ah Yeah.
01:15:28
Jeff Stein
that's that That's mine there. it's just that that they They really go hard and they really kill it. and it is a really It's a good tune. and it's It's been stuck in my head for a while.
01:15:38
AL
I do remember it coming out, yeah.
01:15:40
Jeff Stein
no I figured that's what's stuck in my head today. so let's That's my thing of the week. What do you got, man?
Favorite Picks and Dream Tools
01:15:47
AL
That's awesome. I remember when that song came out. Now I'm going to have to Amazon it tomorrow. It's pretty hilarious that we can say we knew LL Cool J before he was a movie star.
01:16:00
Jeff Stein
Exactly.
01:16:02
AL
but
01:16:02
Jeff Stein
What? He was a rapper? Yeah. um
01:16:04
AL
yeah Yeah, exactly. really um My thing of the week is I'm going to go like the the classic, you know, like you should, you know, you know, as a digital fabrication podcaster.
01:16:18
AL
um Now, I'm going to go with a vortex tool company. um They are a very small family owned tooling manufacturer. When I say tool company, I'm talking about CNC bits anywhere from. Well, actually, they don't make eighth inch. They make quarter inch and up in diameter. um I was having a problem with a tooling company that has an orange sign.
01:16:51
AL
I'm just gonna leave that. And they, we had words and and I was having a problem with with feeds and speeds and bits and and cut quality and stuff like that. And I just stumbled across them on on the internet. And they're literally, when I first started buying bits from Vortex, there was, it was a husband and wife, a son, and they had one employee.
01:17:16
AL
And I think there's eight people there now. But they they have made custom bits for me.
01:17:20
Jeff Stein
well
01:17:23
AL
I've called them up and said, this is what I'm doing. Can you make me a bit that'll do it quicker, faster, more efficiently?
01:17:28
Jeff Stein
Well.
01:17:30
AL
And they're like, I was doing like a tool change and I don't have a tool changer. So they made a quarter inch bit. They made two quarter inch bits for me with half inch shanks.
01:17:43
AL
So I didn't have to change college when I was changing the tool.
01:17:45
Jeff Stein
Oh, cool.
01:17:46
AL
which I was cutting 250 items two sided. So I needed to make tool changes reasonably quick or as quick as I can.
01:17:55
Jeff Stein
okay
01:17:57
AL
um And they just they just milled. They just custom built it. I mean, their tools are not inexpensive, but they are amazing quality. They have a sharpening program.
01:18:08
AL
You can you know, you can send a ah hundred dollar bid in and it'll cost you 20 bucks to have it sharpened. And you can get two, three sharpenings out of them if you don't damage them terribly by, you know, crashing them.
01:18:17
Jeff Stein
Okay.
01:18:21
Jeff Stein
What, like, like our intro?
01:18:21
AL
I've, I've never, I've never done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like the intro exactly. and And I will say I've never damaged the edge of a tool at all. Not once they snap into 10 pieces every time.
01:18:35
Jeff Stein
Yeah.
01:18:37
AL
But, um, Back to Vortex, they have just the, I do get a discount with them. They don't sponsor people, you know, but they, they give me a pretty decent discount. um But they're they're just amazing people.
01:18:51
AL
I've I've I've cut aluminum sheeting and had problems with it. And they we probably snapped 15 different bits and they were like overnight expressing me.
01:19:01
AL
Try this one. Try that one. Try that. I'm going to send you five of them. We're going to try this feed and speed, this feed and speed, this speed and speed. And they're getting data as well. And now they have a they have a whole series of metal mills that I helped them develop just by being a guinea pig for them.
01:19:17
Jeff Stein
Right.
01:19:19
AL
And they're they're just awesome people. They're just really really good people and it's just vortex tool calm You know if anybody wants to go check them out
01:19:25
Jeff Stein
Awesome. All right. Well, anybody that's got a machine big enough to need a tool like that, that is the place you should go to get it. um Okay, here's another one for you here. um I'm gonna try asking everybody what their dream tool is. And in perspective of if you could have any one tool with accessories delivered for free, dropped right in your shop, anything, what would you pick?
01:19:55
AL
Mm hmm.
01:20:00
Jeff Stein
Why? And what would you do with it?
01:20:05
AL
Oh, well.
01:20:09
AL
I know what the long term answer is, because I've been dreaming of one for a while. There is a short term answer. I would like a hundred watt fiber laser over a 50 watt, but that's just a just a speed upgrade.
01:20:19
Jeff Stein
That's an upgrade, not a dream tool.
01:20:20
AL
Yeah. Yeah. My dream tool, actually. would be the newest Laguna IQ, which is their small format CNC machine. It's two foot by three foot stock. um You can get them two foot by four foot. They can make them any length. But I would get a two by four with a tool changer and a vacuum bed. And the upgraded six six horsepower spindle. And the reason I would go with an IQ, which sounds counterproductive, having already owning a four by eight,
01:20:55
AL
is probably 70 to 80 percent of the carbs I do, I'm only using a two foot by four foot area maximum.
01:21:04
Jeff Stein
Okay.
01:21:06
AL
Unless I'm get doing sheetwork or things like that. So the first two foot of my spoil board is absolutely destroyed.
01:21:14
Jeff Stein
Right. And the rest of it looks pretty untouched.
01:21:15
AL
So I I flip them and then we rotate them and flip them. You know, but um I can see like getting into artwork and small piece work.
01:21:20
Jeff Stein
Right.
01:21:27
AL
I my dream shop would have three or four of these IQs running multiple.
01:21:32
Jeff Stein
Right.
01:21:34
AL
Multiple functions, but with the tool changer, they make a six tool or four tool for tool tool changer and a vacuum bed now for the IQ. And it costs about what I paid for the Swift.
01:21:48
Jeff Stein
ah you know i i you know I do things at such a slow pace that, I mean, it could be two days or two weeks before I need to switch to the next bit.
01:22:01
Jeff Stein
The tool changer just doesn't have any, I just don't have a need for it.
01:22:06
AL
No.
01:22:07
Jeff Stein
I mean, I'm not just i'm just not switching back and forth and back and forth and back and forth between the bits.
01:22:08
AL
No.
01:22:11
AL
Mm hmm.
01:22:13
Jeff Stein
and I've got all the time in the world to work through my stuff. So doing all the extra work and hassle of setting up the tool changers and getting it programmed and the cost and all of that, it just has absolutely no benefit to me in my shop.
01:22:32
Jeff Stein
But I tell you that vacuum bed thing that, that looks mighty appealing to me.
01:22:33
AL
Right.
01:22:37
Jeff Stein
I mean, I'm a, I'm a blue tape guy, but I'd rather be a vacuum guy.
01:22:38
AL
It's.
01:22:41
AL
yeah Yeah. Yeah, on the small machines, they're amazing for they do what you think they're going to do on a large machine like mine.
01:22:52
Jeff Stein
Mm hmm.
01:22:52
AL
I can't hold it. I can't hold anything much smaller than two foot by two foot.
01:22:57
Jeff Stein
Right.
01:22:58
AL
Because the volume.
01:22:59
Jeff Stein
It's got to grab a bigger object.
01:23:01
AL
Yeah, the the because the volume you're losing so much vacuum around it I mean you could you could put panels down. I see people take yeah yeah But they don't it's they're they're great for sheet goods they're not they're not great for piece work Yeah
01:23:09
Jeff Stein
Right, you can cover it where you could just cover most of the other areas, right? You just put a sheet of plywood on the other half of the bed.
01:23:23
Jeff Stein
I'm still amazed at the way this air just sucks right through the MDF. that is That's
01:23:28
AL
Yeah, um I'm pulling through a three-quarter inch sheet.
01:23:31
Jeff Stein
that's That's pretty awesome. um Okay.
01:23:33
AL
Yeah, yeah. So what's your tool? What would your dream tool be?
01:23:37
Jeff Stein
Well, I think my dream tool I, I want to just go, I mean, we're talking free and anything for free.
01:23:47
AL
isn
01:23:48
Jeff Stein
You might as well just scale big. I think I might have to go with one of those big robot arms, you know, like the kind in the Ford factory that are but whatever.
01:23:58
AL
Mm-hmm. Five-axis CNCs over there?
01:24:01
Jeff Stein
Yeah, you just the the big robotic arm that's mounted to the floor and it swivels all around and you can put a Swiss army knife's worth of attachments on there, whether you're doing ah cutting or routing or
01:24:02
AL
Yeah.
01:24:12
AL
Yeah. Yeah.
01:24:16
Jeff Stein
shit anything with those things. And the I think the possibilities of that are so close to endless. And the the, the limitations on the limitations on what you can do with that is just so small, just because you can do anything.
01:24:24
AL
Yeah.
01:24:27
AL
Can you imagine? it I'm sorry. Can you?
01:24:34
Jeff Stein
So I mean, God knows what that software would look like.
01:24:35
AL
Yeah.
01:24:38
Jeff Stein
But I mean, I'm sure there's something out there that works cool for it. But I think that'd be it for me. I'd want to try one of those out. I, I, I probably have to be a small one.
01:24:50
Jeff Stein
So I'm working in my basement.
01:24:51
AL
do they, do you know? Do they make small ones? Like, can you get a four foot one?
01:24:55
Jeff Stein
Oh, I'm sure I couldn't, I'd have to like put a second mortgage on my house to do it, but I'm pretty sure they make small ones.
01:24:58
AL
Yeah.
01:25:07
Jeff Stein
I'm guessing.
01:25:07
AL
Well, if we wake up if we wake up famous tomorrow, maybe you'll get a call.
01:25:12
Jeff Stein
We're going to need a lot of Patreon supporters to make that happen.
01:25:17
AL
of He ran some GoFundMe, I think.
01:25:20
Jeff Stein
Yeah, exactly.
01:25:22
AL
ah
01:25:22
Jeff Stein
um If it's a toy that you're just going to have fun with, shouldn't it be a GoFundMe?
01:25:29
AL
Yeah, there you go.
01:25:30
Jeff Stein
Let's, let's make a, let's just make a new site and just skip.
01:25:31
AL
That would be Yeah.
01:25:34
Jeff Stein
ah They'd probably sue us the bastards, but I mean, just make a new site called go fund me. It's not for things you fucking need. When you went, when you're desperate and you need help, you go to go fund me.
01:25:47
Jeff Stein
But when you want people to crowdsource you money for a new fun toy, you go to go fund me.
01:25:47
AL
yeah
01:25:54
AL
Yeah,
Podcast Launch and Future Plans
01:25:55
AL
I'm down.
01:25:56
Jeff Stein
I'm not, I'm not buying it free idea for anybody that fucking wants it. It's out there. I'm done.
01:26:03
AL
you've watched the Yeah, that would be you could you could you could have the five act you could have the arm loading the seeing your yep, yep Yeah, yeah I have
01:26:13
Jeff Stein
Yeah. I've actually seen arms set up to load and unload parts from like a Tormach or a Haas kind of product.
01:26:26
Jeff Stein
Speaking of digital tools, it'd be fun to talk to somebody that runs one of them. I put that on my list.
01:26:32
AL
I have a I have a buddy who works in a cabinet shop who runs a CNC sliding table saw. And it it basically has loaders and unloaders and the whole the whole bed of the saw is like ah remember the classic air hockey tables.
01:26:40
Jeff Stein
Yeah.
01:26:51
Jeff Stein
yeah
01:26:51
AL
You can you can slide a sheet of one inch MDF with your finger.
01:26:57
Jeff Stein
Nice.
01:26:58
AL
The whole because it's just hovering on the bed and they got like
01:27:01
Jeff Stein
Beautiful.
01:27:02
AL
16 inch saw blade, you know, it's a 12 foot slider
01:27:05
Jeff Stein
All right. Well, we're where we're going to have to put his name on that list and that document.
01:27:13
AL
yeah they have a giant commercial ah Drill block CNC also so we could probably talk to him about that too There you go So well
01:27:22
Jeff Stein
Well, anything he's got, he can run it with a computer. We're happy to talk about it.
01:27:29
Jeff Stein
So you think we got it about, I think we got it covered for today.
01:27:33
AL
i Think so. This is episode. What what's the officials this episode one or is this pre?
01:27:38
Jeff Stein
Yeah, this is episode one. Um, this is episode one.
01:27:41
AL
Okay Yeah, yeah
01:27:42
Jeff Stein
Um, episode zero was a minute and a half test just to activate the um RSS feeds and make sure everything was distributing properly before we actually put in something good here. Um, so this is officially episode one where I thought it would be best that we just interview each other that way. We don't need to be talking about who we are when we're interviewing a guest that way, having having discussed who we are in relatively good detail as the stars of our own show here, then now now, like next time, we can be, you know, a lot more focused in not who we are, but who our guest is and what they're doing um now that we've got us out of the way.
01:28:13
AL
Right. Yeah.
01:28:33
AL
Yeah. And with that, I would I wouldn't. Yeah, I would that I would like to say formally say thank you for inviting me along on this journey. I look forward to it and I'll get up to speed eventually. I promise.
01:28:48
Jeff Stein
That's all right. Uh, we're, we're all figuring this out as we go along. Um, I've, you know, well while we've both recorded podcasts before, it's never been as, as the host side.
01:28:59
AL
You know.
01:29:01
Jeff Stein
So it's going to be new and interesting, but you know, I, I think we've got something that has a marketable level of interest.
01:29:11
Jeff Stein
I think the number of people who own. or have very serious interest in learning what they could do by buying digital tools.
01:29:21
AL
Yeah.
01:29:22
Jeff Stein
I think we've got a little bit more of a, hopefully ah ah a tech detail version of the let's meet the maker type of a show.
01:29:27
AL
Yeah.
01:29:35
Jeff Stein
let's Let's meet the maker and let's find out what his tools are and how specifically he's using them.
01:29:35
AL
Yeah. yeah
01:29:43
Jeff Stein
And if that means we need to figure out how many passes he's taking to get a quarter inch down, whether it's one or 16. I mean, it's, you know, depending on whether it's your machine or mine, that's, you know.
01:29:56
AL
very Right. ah yeah Right.
01:30:01
Jeff Stein
So I guess that's about it. Um, well, thank you very much, Al, for taking the time to come hang out and, uh, keep this thing interesting.
Engagement with Listeners and Community
01:30:12
Jeff Stein
And I would like to thank all the listeners for tuning in. And if you enjoyed listening and would like to help support the show, you can share it with your friends and, uh, tell a neighbor, more people to find it, the happier we are.
01:30:26
Jeff Stein
or you could join our patreon at patreon dot.com slash digifabricators all patrons will get access to an exclusive patreon channel in our discord server the rest of the discord channel server Discord server channels are open to all the listeners and Links to the discord server and our patreon are in the digit fabricators Instagram bio
01:30:59
Jeff Stein
and a huge thank you to all of our current patrons for their support if we had any i would be reading their names right now what you know seeing as this is episode one hasn't quite dropped yet i'm gonna be patient and maybe maybe we'll pick one up next week we'll see
01:31:14
AL
know Yeah, yeah. yeah.
01:31:19
Jeff Stein
um ah Speaking of next week, I'm kind of aiming biweekly at this at the moment. um We're feeling our way out here. I'm not sure how much time and effort this is going to take to keep this rolling or how many interesting guests we can keep finding. So we're at least starting out as a biweekly show.
01:31:41
Jeff Stein
So we will be back in two weeks and if at some point we get this thing down smooth and the line of people we want to talk to is still long and it's not taking a whole bunch of our life out, we might just go ahead and bump up to a normal weekly show. but I haven't got the you know the the the confidence to say that that we've got enough time to do this every week right yet.
01:32:04
AL
Mm hmm. No.
01:32:12
AL
to thank Yeah.
01:32:13
Jeff Stein
maybe Maybe once we've got everything mastered and down to a flow where I can just click a few buttons and everything uploads and everything's fine and we've just got one night evening per week and that's all I need to do is I'm done.
01:32:27
Jeff Stein
I don't want it to be half of my life, so we'll see how things go. But for now, we're going to do the bi-weekly. Also, it would also help the show if you could leave us a review. And you can leave podcast reviews on Apple Podcasts, iTunes, PodChaser, Spotify, Podcast Addict, Audible, and GoodPods.
01:32:54
Jeff Stein
And those will all help us to get the show out to more listeners. And if you or someone you know happens to do cool things with their digital tools, please contact us. We would like to have suggestions. We only have so many friends to invite and we would, we're eventually going to need your suggestions to be able to keep the show going.
01:33:22
AL
Past four.
01:33:24
Jeff Stein
Yep, exactly. Well, once we get past, you know, I figure each one of us should be able to bring at least two or three friends, but then we're going to have to, you know, branch out and start searching Instagram for some um other weirdos we can bring in that do some fun things.
01:33:33
AL
yeah
01:33:41
AL
yeah
01:33:42
Jeff Stein
Um, so I guess that's it for tonight. I can be found most places as a weird guy and Al can be found under New York woodworks, which is N Y woodworks with an X.
01:33:59
AL
Yeah.
01:34:00
Jeff Stein
and Okay. Just an X and thanks again to everyone and we'll catch you next episode.
01:34:01
AL
Yep. yeah
01:34:08
AL
Alright.