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Tricia Macalka-Fisher: Surviving Narcisism | Ep #46
84 Plays2 years ago
In Episode Five, we welcome our first female guest and one who gives voice to Narcissistic Abuse Survivors and a perspective that might be hard to hear. Her story of being in a relationship with an extremely abusive, passive-aggressive, covert narcissist is not a rare story, but one that may rarely be heard.
However, with the release of her new book, “Misaligned Mind” the world has a resource to help them identify this form of toxic or distorted masculinity, and then empower its victims to walk away and find healing.
In this episode you'll learn:
- Narcissism as a personality disorder (i.e. it’s behaviors)
- What Trauma Bonding means (i.e. Manipulation & “Love Bombing”)
- Why boundaries are SO important in a relationship
- The roadmap of Narcissistic relationship
- Key Self-Love elements to never compromise on
- What “Gas Lighting” looks like
- How Plant Medicine can heal the trauma
Guest Name: Tricia Macalka
https://www.instagram.com/ncmermaid81
https://www.instagram.com/narcmisalignedmind
Host Name: Josh Cearbaugh
https://www.instagram.com/jcearbaugh/
https://facebook.com/joshcearbaugh
https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshcearbaugh/
https://www.jumpstartyourlife.com
LinksHost Name: Seth Conner
https://www.instagram.com/sethaconner/
https://www.facebook.com/iSethConner/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethaconner/
Companies, Products & Places Mentioned
Narcissist Misaligned Mind: How My Faith And Rebirth Helped Me Escape The Abuse (Tricia Macalka) - https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asin=B09D1MHFBX&preview=newtab&linkCode=kpe&ref_=cm_sw_r_kb_dp_VXA2ZS352S7RN4G92DHV
Why Does He Do That (Lundy Bancroft) - https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asin=B000Q9J0RO&preview=newtab&linkCode=kpe&ref_=cm_sw_r_kb_dp_9DJ3D5XYTRP9W4JD343J
Narc Abuse TV -
Mushroom Doctor (psilocybin micro-dosing)
www.MushroomDoctor.co/shop
The Power of TED (The Empowerment Dynamic) (https://www.amazon.com/POWER-TED-EMPOWERMENT-DYNAMIC-Anniversary/dp/0996871802)
Default Mode Network (https://psychedelicstoday.com/2020/02/04/psychedelics-and-the-default-mode-network/)
Recommended
Transcript
Challenging Masculine Stereotypes
00:00:00
Speaker
Men, we are not simple, chest-thumping, rock-smashing, fire-starting barbarians. We have depth. We intensely feel. We are scared, yet brave. We love to have fun. We're imperfect and make mistakes. We're compassionate and loving. We are multifaceted. Let's explore the reality of masculinity together.
A Female Perspective on Masculinity
00:00:30
Speaker
Today's episode is actually I think a pretty significant one and a special one, not just because of who our guest is, which I'm excited to get into and hear from her. But actually, she is the first female guest that we have on this podcast of multifaceted masculinity. And if you've listened to any episode, you know, our whole point of this podcast is to
Exploring Healthy vs. Toxic Masculinity
00:00:58
Speaker
really help unpack and understand what is healthy masculinity and really identify what is toxic masculinity. And while Seth and I can get into the weeds of that and kind of maybe articulate it in a certain way, I think it's really important to give space to the feminine to be able to put words to how they've experienced both toxic masculinity and healthy masculinity in their own life, in their own world. And so today's guest,
00:01:27
Speaker
I'm actually let seth introduce because they have known one another for a while but i just want to say i'm really excited to be able to have her on because it's the first of many guests that we're gonna be bring on here in this next year. That's really going to i think present a unique side of.
00:01:45
Speaker
how us as men, we can be blumbering through life and unaware of how we are impacting and affecting the opposite sex. And so to just hear the story and give space for women to be able to share their experience and their story is
00:02:03
Speaker
Has always been a big deal to me and so it really excited to be able to.
Trisha's Story of Narcissistic Abuse
00:02:08
Speaker
Have our first female guest on the episode so seth why don't you take it away and give us a little bit of context for who she is and then let's dive into some of the conversation.
00:02:18
Speaker
Yeah, I'm really excited as well, not only because Trisha is a really good friend and we've got a history of going through the shit together, but I'm also super proud because she is a new author and she's taken her story and
00:02:38
Speaker
taken a hard story and published it for the world to help others, not only women specifically, but also men. And so this is kind of going to be like a part two to the to the episode that we did in episode. It was episode four when we're unpacking narcissism. This is kind of like part two of unpacking narcissism. The last one we called unpacking narcissism, the original douchebag, right? Which I'm sure
00:03:08
Speaker
Tricia loves the title of that one. But yeah, we dove into kind of a definition of narcissism, what it looks like in regards to masculinity, codependency, victimhood, things like that. But like you said, it's gonna be amazing to get not only a female's perspective in general, because if it was just us, if it was just men, then probably life would be so much easier living in ignorance.
00:03:37
Speaker
You know, the ignorance would be bliss. But it'd also be really boring as well. It'd be really boring, right? Just for the record. But we need the women, we need the yang to our yin so that we can have that mirror and show us how fucked up we can be sometimes. And again, I don't want to put it all on
00:03:54
Speaker
on men as being the narcissist, but for some reason I guess men are more inclined to be that. So without further ado, I want to introduce Tricia to the podcast. I want to welcome her and say thank you my friend for coming on the podcast. Her book
00:04:14
Speaker
I'm gonna let you intro it, but her book is called Narcissist, Misaligned Mind. So Trisha, welcome and tell us a little bit about the book that you've had recently published.
00:04:25
Speaker
Thank you. So awesome to be here with you two gents finally. My book is my story about being in a extremely abusive relationship with a passive aggressive covert narcissist for seven years. I go into a little bit about my childhood and kind of, you know, that old indoctrination and patterns and
00:04:55
Speaker
family cycles and how I ended up carrying that through my adult relationships and ended with a psychopath. And as shitty and unfortunate as that experience was, it was also a blessing in disguise because it really helped me take a step back.
00:05:21
Speaker
brought me to plant medicine and helped me look inside myself and figure out what were the patterns that I had that were causing me to find any attraction or connect with a person like him. So a lot of growth, a lot of pain, a lot of suffering, but it ended with a lot of love for myself and learning how to appreciate life in a different way and truly stand up for myself.
00:05:52
Speaker
How long were you in this relationship for? We were in a relationship on and off almost seven years. Yeah.
00:06:02
Speaker
So when would you say was the kind of the aha moment where you realized, huh, this guy is not who he says he is and having the understanding, I guess, because a lot of people don't really know there'll be in a relationship and they don't know what narcissism is. Maybe they attract narcissistic partners because of their parents. And so that's just their norm. And so they don't realize something is off, something's dysfunctional.
00:06:30
Speaker
um and they aren't familiar with the term narcissist or what the characteristics of it are what kind of when was it for you that or what was what was standing out to you where you're like oh man this isn't this guy's a narcissist like this is not the way it's supposed to be yeah well honestly i i knew what narcissist was but
00:06:52
Speaker
as far as somebody's attitude, they're all about themselves. But I didn't know that it was actually a personality disorder. So it was actually right before Christmas of 2016, we had already been through so much and he was breaking my heart. And that's when I started Googling his behavior.
00:07:19
Speaker
trying to figure out what the fuck's wrong with me. Why is he treating me like this?
00:07:25
Speaker
And I was standing in Barnes and Noble on the phone with my sister, who I no longer speak to because she's a narcissist. And I just happened to look down at the end of a bookcase and saw this book called, Why Does He Do That? by Lindy Bancroft. And that book changed my life. I read it in two days. And then I started Googling and YouTubing all the videos and it was like,
00:07:52
Speaker
this is exactly what this is, but I was so trauma bonded to him still.
Understanding Narcissistic Abuse Dynamics
00:07:56
Speaker
I mean, severely, I got all my value and worth from how he treated me. So I was stuck in that trauma bond for years, years. So impact that you were bonded to him, you were stuck to him because of the way he treated you. Kind of unpack that a little bit. Yeah. So,
00:08:22
Speaker
There's a cycle that narcissists go through when they're trying to get in a relationship with you. They love bomb the shit out of you and you think they're your soulmate, your twin flame, your knight in shining armor, and they put you up on this super high pedestal that you think you'll never come down.
00:08:42
Speaker
buying you gifts, taking you on trips, like you're spending all your time together. Before you know it, you've completely lost all your interest in hobbies and things you like to do. You no longer see your family or friends because they isolate you so much.
00:08:57
Speaker
And if you do try to do things for yourself, any kind of self-love or hang out with your friends, then you're manipulated and treated like crap and punished for it. And then they discard you with the cheating, the lying, you know, and break up with you. And it's like you're starving for that attention again. So then they'll start breadcrumbing you when their next victim didn't work out and they want you back as supply. So,
00:09:26
Speaker
You get those little breadcrumbs of that love and affection that they showered you with and it's like your Corazon levels and your brain and everything are just so out of whack that you accept shit as love.
00:09:41
Speaker
And it's at the same time eroding your self-worth, your security of who you are. I lost jobs because of it. I got sick. It manifested physically in my body. My hair was falling out. I got diagnosed with two autoimmune diseases in the same day. It was just, it's a complete,
00:10:08
Speaker
tear down tornado of you mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically. And the only thing that could make me feel happy or function was him validating me or showing me affection or telling me I'm pretty or wanting to spend time with me. It was ridiculous.
00:10:36
Speaker
Well, first and foremost, I just as a man listening to you, I just want to say that I'm sorry, you know, for the experience that you had to go through with that. I it's it's both infuriating and and devastating to hear any time that that women are manipulated in this way. Yeah. I am curious to bring it back maybe a little bit further in the relationship, because we're kind of talking about
00:11:05
Speaker
the aha moments and the end of it. But what what would you say were some of the core components within you that maybe were either unhealed or you hadn't realized that that drawed you to him in the first place? Yeah. Well, when I met him, I had just separated from my husband. So I was vulnerable. I wasn't interested in dating or looking, but
00:11:33
Speaker
it just happened. But I was finally doing things that I loved again and exploring who I was after a separation pending divorce. He saw that confidence in me and he totally latched onto it. And narcissists are chameleons. They mirror you. So everything that I was
00:11:58
Speaker
which, you know, I feel I'm a good person. I'm caring. I'm empathetic. I'm loving. I'm always trying to help people. He mirrored that and all the way down to our hobbies. Oh, we liked the same music. Oh, he played an instrument too. It was like, oh, wow, we're so similar. You know, we just connected on all the things that I loved.
00:12:22
Speaker
only to come and find out that he's a complete fraud. Like the person I fell in love with doesn't even exist. And that's what is so hard for women and men who deal with it because they're women narcissists too.
00:12:38
Speaker
victims that fell in love with somebody that didn't even exist. That is so hard. That's the hardest thing to accept and heal and move away from because you're constantly trying to get that person back while you're in the relationship. Like what happened? Where did they go? Why are they so mean to me? You know, and it's like, do I look good enough? Am I skinny enough? Is my hair the way he likes it? Am I wearing enough makeup? Should I buy him something?
00:13:04
Speaker
Should we go on a trip? Like, how can I shower him, build him's confidence up, words of affirmation, like, oh, you're so amazing. I found myself giving him praise and words of affirmation that I didn't even believe about him just to avoid being abused that night. Yeah. Just to keep the peace. So it's like you're going against everything you are in your heart and soul just to have a peaceful evening. God, that's rough. Yeah.
00:13:34
Speaker
That's tough. So what was it in the transition out of out
Losing Identity in Abusive Relationships
00:13:39
Speaker
of that divorce, the separation, you know, you're finding that confidence in the things that you love. And I and I hear that, you know, he's mirroring that in order to manipulate that. Is it was it just that you felt like you had found your soulmate because of the way he presented things or I'm just I'm curious as to like how
00:14:05
Speaker
you know, in the beginning, let's say, and we all know, right, you're in a new relationship, you're in that puppy love stage and it's euphoric. Doesn't mean you're dating a narcissist if you, you know, lose sleep or can't eat because you love them so much. Like we all go through that kind of excitement phase. Plus we're selling ourselves. We're selling ourselves to that other person.
00:14:26
Speaker
because yes, we want us to both buy in on this relationship. So there's a little bit to us on both sides of that, but go ahead with his side. Yeah, but just well within, I mean, I hear his side. I'm actually really curious as to your side internally, you know, what was it that
00:14:48
Speaker
that that enabled you to. To essentially give yourself away, you know, to move beyond that puppy dog stage and into that trauma bond. That if you could articulate kind of that transition, you know, beyond before the aha moment, so kind of in between the puppy dog stage and the aha moment. What would you say was going on internally within you that that
00:15:18
Speaker
that enabled you to continue to give more of yourself away? I would say, well, first of all, that relationship was so complete opposite of my marriage. So it was fun. It was exciting. There were things that happened that morally and spiritually I was
00:15:43
Speaker
It felt inflammation in my body about, I guess. It just wasn't something Trisha does. But at the same time, I was like, okay, well, this is a new relationship. I don't wanna compare it to the old. Maybe I need to let loose. Maybe this is something I need to experience in life. It was just kinda like a,
00:16:09
Speaker
throw all caution to the win. Let's see what happens because we were crazy about each other. It was stupidity and being naive. And it was, you know, completely just forgoing who I truly was to, I guess,
00:16:30
Speaker
make him happy. I abandoned myself very early on. I completely abandoned myself because he was fun and he was, you know, he made me feel special. He made me feel beautiful. And he dosed me with that all day, every day. He sent me so many flowers at work. It looked like a funeral home. He should have sent a casket instead of flowers to put my body in.
00:17:00
Speaker
But I had never been showered like this by a man before my life to the point where it made me uncomfortable because I didn't feel like I was showing enough appreciation for it. That's interesting because I want to point out just a couple things. One, you're getting out of a marriage. A relationship is more or less ending. And a lot of us have been there
00:17:29
Speaker
whether it's just a relationship or if it's a marriage. And there's a certain level of self-worth questions that come up. Did I do enough? Am I worth having a relationship with? That kind of thing. And then all of a sudden you enter in this guy who is just showering you
00:17:51
Speaker
with love and gifts and appreciation. Sounds like probably just over the top, but who knows? There's some, you know, there's some romantics out there and it feels good. It's meeting that need. It's feeling that sadness from the previous, that we feel from the previous relationship. So I guess the question is we get intoxicated. Yeah, you feel seen, right? Which is very important. So we feel intoxicated by that.
00:18:18
Speaker
And then what happens, that slippery slope of giving ourselves away, losing ourselves, not only in the relationship, but in that person as well. And I think that is the trick right there is,
00:18:33
Speaker
maintaining who we are and to know ourselves. And I'd like to hear more about like how plant medicine facilitated that for you, but you know, keeping hold of who we are, knowing who we are and not compromising even in the midst of something that looks amazing, you know, and feels amazing. What was,
00:18:57
Speaker
I mean, what was that like for you in regards to like, did you feel like maybe maybe that leads into more of the codependency discussion? Yeah. You know, maybe you can talk a little bit about that. It's just like, what did that look like for you?
Childhood Influences on Adult Relationships
00:19:09
Speaker
Yeah, you know, looking back now, I can see how I've struggled with codependency my whole life. Just even as a child, I was the middle child. So my oldest sister, who I don't have relationship with, she was the first. She was, you know, everybody showered her. Anytime she did anything bad or messed up, like, oh, you know, poor her.
00:19:40
Speaker
Then there was my baby brother who was a pretty good kid. He acted like a dummy in his teenage years, but he was the baby, like he could do no wrong, you know? And then there was me that just, oh, she's got it. She can do it. We don't need to be there. We don't need to watch her. You know, like there was no doting or involvement from my parents or grandparents like there were for the other two. It was just like,
00:20:10
Speaker
I hope Tricia says she's going to do something. She always does it. She's good. Like we don't need to.
00:20:16
Speaker
you know, which is fine. But at the same time, like as a child, you need validation from your parents. You need that love. You need reassurance. You need to fuck up and then say, you fucked up. Now let's learn from it. I didn't have that. I just kind of had to figure it out my whole life as I went along. And so I think part of that was me always trying to get validation from people. I was in relationships, whether it be,
00:20:43
Speaker
friends, intimate partners, people I worked with, like, did I do a good job? Did I do a good job? Did I do, you know, and that stays with you instead of you turning inside yourself and saying, how do you feel about what you did? Like, are you proud of yourself? Like, or setting goals, you know, like, I never really set goals. I just,
00:21:08
Speaker
This is what I'm doing and I did it. Like from a book report to going to college and paying for it myself. Like it wasn't that it was necessarily a goal. It's what I thought was expected. So it wasn't really me being true to who I was and what I wanted. It was to get validation from everybody else and say, good job. And I wasted a lot of freaking time doing that.
00:21:33
Speaker
and allowed a lot of shitty people in my life by doing that. That does bring up a point, which maybe we're getting ahead in your story, but I am curious of
00:21:47
Speaker
What has it been like for you? What does it both cost you and what have you gained from letting go of that? Letting go of the need to people please, to look for that validation. How has that changed your life? And it not only hasn't changed your life, because I think it's important to hear the positives, but I think it's equally important to hear what it's cost you to make that transition.
00:22:14
Speaker
Um, honestly, I just turned 40 on Monday and I'm so excited about it because I.
00:22:25
Speaker
So many of my friends that are in their 40s are like, welcome. You no longer give a fuck what people think. And I'm like, yes. It's so true. Like, goodbye 30s. But I honestly like not giving a shit anymore has brought me so much peace. The things that I used to stress about, I'm able just to kind of release now and not worry about it. And things always work out if you just trust the process, you know, and
00:22:55
Speaker
Continue being a good person what you put out is gonna come back, you know, and It's brought me peace it's helped me You know really focus on myself Giving back to myself that self-love What it's cost me I guess is relationships with people that I don't miss so it wasn't really
00:23:20
Speaker
a loss. I mean, I have cut the fat so much in the past two years and I do not miss them. I don't miss my sister. I don't miss a lot of people that were in my life that were friends, quote unquote, that weren't friends. Like I have built the most incredible friendships over the past, I'd say three years.
00:23:45
Speaker
with a small group of people that will be my people for the rest of my life. And that is way better to have quality than quantity. That's one of those people. Aw. We have gone through some hard stuff, some hard shit. We have. Last couple of years.
00:24:12
Speaker
I know we'll probably just vacillate back and forth with the story, but two things I do want to ask you about is one, just so that people that are listening can hear a little bit more about kind of the characteristics
00:24:28
Speaker
of a narcissist that you experienced, you know, and maybe giving some of those, maybe getting to any details that you would want to, just kind of what that looks like or what that looked like for you a little bit more. And then to piggyback off of Josh's question of just the how, you know, when you did start letting go, when you did start not giving a shit, when you started to find more of the worth within yourself as opposed to seeking validation outside of yourself,
00:24:58
Speaker
you know, what did that process look like? But, you know, maybe just share a little bit more of the characteristics of a narcissist that you experienced. Yeah. Well, for me, my abuser was always the victim. He was the perpetual victim. Nothing was his fault.
00:25:20
Speaker
And he played that little violin for a long time and I believed it. He was going through a divorce too when we met. So that was another common thing that we had. But his side of the story was his wife was having multiple affairs and cheated on him and destroyed his life and broke up their family.
00:25:43
Speaker
He was just devastated and she played right into his story acting like a nut job and stalked me, harassed me, harassed my ex-husband, keyed my car, like played right into she's crazy.
00:26:00
Speaker
he and I think I think honestly like that was another thing that hooked me because I felt so bad for him because I my ex-husband is one of my best friends still like we're great co-parents um and I know that that's rare for a lot of people that are you know divorced but we're our own statistic and I'm proud of that it's been wonderful for our son and I wish more people could
00:26:26
Speaker
put their children ahead of their bullshit and make sure their kids are okay and work together. But sometimes that's not possible. But I sympathize so much with him going through her crazy and how miserable she made him that I almost turned into a mommy figure to him.
00:26:49
Speaker
As well. So, you know, he was stressed his belly hurt. Okay. Well, I'm not gonna go to dance class. I'll come over and make you dinner and rub your back like all the time. It was that kind of crap and other things he would do if I
00:27:09
Speaker
did well or accelerated at work or something, he would boast about it in front of people where I'd kind of kept it to myself, but he'd be like, look how amazing my girlfriend is. She's so hot and she's successful and I was like, okay, like that's really sweet. I've never had a man be that proud of me, you know? And then just,
00:27:36
Speaker
Like little doses and drops of him saying things like, I like blonde hair over brown hair. Well, my hair is naturally brown. I like straight hair over curly hair. My hair is naturally curly. Or, you know, just little digs throughout the relationship.
00:28:01
Speaker
that he would say obviously is a joke when it was full-on intentional to hurt me and make me self-conscious and feel like shit. The triangulation of other women and other relationships was constant.
Abuse by Proxy and Gaslighting
00:28:18
Speaker
There was always a friend who was a girl that was also a patient that he,
00:28:26
Speaker
I mean, that I have record of he slept with nine of his patients while we were together that were friends. And you know, like with his family and those relationships, the whole family dynamic, like, if he didn't get his way, or if we got into an argument, he would
00:28:49
Speaker
whenever we were with family or friends, he would have already told them some cockamamie story to make me look like shit where they treated me differently. He would lie constantly to his friends and family and coworkers and others about my character,
00:29:10
Speaker
and blame me for things he was actually doing to me. He flipped the whole story. So they treated me like crap. So it was like abuse by proxy third party. And then, and during the entire time, like I'm lying to my friends and family and coworkers to downplay and cover up what a piece of shit he is so they don't hate his guts because I loved him. So it was like,
00:29:38
Speaker
flip the script all the time and I'm like, I would bust in for cheating on me. I would find texts to other women. I would find where he went and bought more cocaine and he'd gaslight me and tell me I'm crazy and that it didn't happen and that I was acting insane. I full on thought for years that I was losing my damn mind.
00:30:02
Speaker
So I was like, maybe I am the problem. Maybe, maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe I'm not doing enough. Maybe I need to be blonde. Maybe I need to be skinny or maybe, you know, it was just how can I make him be that person I thought he was again when he loved me and I was up here. There was sexual assault all the time where he would get super aggressive and really hurt me.
00:30:31
Speaker
and then say it didn't happen or he'd smack my ass and say, you know, you liked it. And I'm like laying on the bed, shaking and crying. And I didn't even realize until last year after I left and was seeing my third psychologist that that was rape. I thought because I was in a relationship and he got a little handsy or, you know,
00:30:59
Speaker
too aggressive that, you know, it was just a bad. He ran over your boundaries. He ran over my boundaries because they like control constantly. They have to have control over everything and everyone.
00:31:12
Speaker
And it didn't matter how I felt, what I needed, what my desires were. I was always too sensitive. I was overreacting, or it didn't happen and I'm crazy, or obviously it was a joke, or I was no fun, or I had turned into a fuddy-duddy.
00:31:33
Speaker
you know, my faith is stupid, whatever, to break me down because I had something to say about his behavior and he didn't care. So what you're kind of describing is, not kind of, but you're describing gaslighting, pointing the finger back at you. Maybe explain that a little bit more or just kind of give a greater understanding. Yeah. So gaslighting is where,
00:32:03
Speaker
you, where the abuser or narcissist or whatever will tell you what you see or know as your reality is not reality. Um, so for example, I, I busted him so many times on so many different things, but just for an example, I found a handle of whiskey under, um,
00:32:32
Speaker
where the spare tire goes in his car, which he had an alcohol abuse problem to. He got busted at work drinking whiskey while he's adjusting patients. And he said that he had quit, but he would go across the street during his lunch breaks and buy a handle of whiskey and he would sit in his lunch break and just take shots of whiskey. And he was hiding it in the trunk of his car. And I found it.
00:32:59
Speaker
And so I brought it inside and hid it from him. And then he acted like in front of his mom because she and I were like trying to find a way to like have an intervention to get him from drinking. He convinced his mom that I planted it in his car
00:33:24
Speaker
and that I was accusing him of things he wasn't doing. I had pictures of his receipts from buying them on my phone. I was measuring them every morning when he'd leave for work. I'd go to the liquor cabinet and measure how much he drank in the middle of the night while I was asleep. It was constant. But he had convinced his parents that I was making it up.
00:33:51
Speaker
planting the bottles in his car and pouring the whiskey out and that I was insane and I was just trying to make him look bad. And I mean, it was just crap like that constantly. I would see text messages from other women where they had obviously gotten together
00:34:13
Speaker
And he would get mad at me for finding the text and telling me how crazy I am and how ridiculous I'm acting and that I shouldn't be going through his stuff. I'm like, you shouldn't be fucking other women. And then telling me you're not when you are. It was just complete chaos all the time. A lot of anger and aggression has,
00:34:39
Speaker
children, you know, he posts on social media, like he's father of the year, but he treated them like shit all the time. He didn't want to be a parent. He didn't want to spend time with them. Um, the time that we had them on the weekends, he was awful too. I'm screaming and yelling the whole weekend. It was just, he's just two different people. I called him Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Um,
00:35:06
Speaker
So the version that his patients see and his friends who are just liking and outsiders are like, Oh, he's such a great guy, you know, doctor and loves his kids and blah, blah, blah. And it's amazing. Once my, my book came out, I actually met, ended up meeting his girlfriend from age 13 to 22. I had another.
00:35:36
Speaker
I've had, I think, four patients now reach out to me that he assaulted since my books come out. He did the same thing to his first girlfriend, even at 13. Like, this is who he is. This is his characteristics and personality. And another girl that graduated chiropractic school with him, he did the same thing to her.
00:36:03
Speaker
It wasn't just me. I'm not special. I'm just another piece of Tupperware pretty much. But man, that's it's hard to hear. I just it's just hard to hear. I think, you know, thinking through our listeners and how your story like I said in the beginning, I think you just telling your story and I love that you've had the
00:36:30
Speaker
the courage to publish your story and just be brutally honest with it. I think it's so empowering and freeing for so many women. Men and women, but we're talking about the unhealthy dynamic for men. They're just like you finding the right book at the right time. I know that there will be women that will find your book at the right time and it'll be that aha.
00:36:57
Speaker
I think thinking through your story and the takeaways from it, and I'm a big proponent of trying to extend our life experiences in a way that can help others either navigate through something or prevent it, point blank.
00:37:15
Speaker
Something that really stood out to me that i think that a lot of people overlook when it comes to. A narcissist because of that perception right of like it's the quarterback jock that takes advantage of women and it's that forward facing thing.
00:37:30
Speaker
Is is is kind of some of what you got into within the victim role that he played yeah you know and i don't know if you're familiar with the book called the power of ted by david emerald. And basically it's a there's a triangle breakdown right that that an unhealthy dynamic needs a villain.
00:37:51
Speaker
needs a victim and needs a hero and and so you know the ex-wife she was the villain and so then he could be the the victim and then you could step in and be that hero and and and my point in that is is like just a tying it tying it together with.
00:38:13
Speaker
What you had shared as far as looking for that validation it was more than just you coming out of your divorce it was more than. You know him showering you with love and praise there was this it sounds like correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like there is this deep seated longing and you to be that hero to find that validation.
00:38:33
Speaker
And all of a sudden, there was a narcissist, but playing that victim role just right to be able to feed that inner child inside of you that had been longing for that affirmation for so long, that all of a sudden you could be that hero for him, right? You could be his savior in a really horrible situation. And I'm only saying that to highlight, you know, we're talking about all of these
00:38:59
Speaker
horrendous things that he was able to do to manipulate you and gaslight you and rape you and abuse you, but that ability stemmed from him being able to play the victim role, which I think it's a little bit of a mind fuck for people to say, well, how can the narcissist be the victim? Yeah, it's a huge mind fuck. The whole relationship's a mind fuck. I mean,
00:39:26
Speaker
It's not a relationship. It's a situation ship and it's freaking evil. Um, but yeah, you're that's
00:39:36
Speaker
exactly how I felt. I enjoyed, I mean, women in general anyway are caregivers. We were created to care and to, you know, love our husbands and our children and take care of the family and make a house a home and stuff like that. And I feel like the, with the toxic masculinity, you know, it all stems from the traditional views of masculinity and the whole
00:40:06
Speaker
Um, patriarchal like breakdown of how things, you know, the men are the providers and they hunt and they, they work and bring home money and the women are supposed to cook and clean and keep the kids. And that's not the world we live in anymore. And I feel like there's always been this men are more, um, dominant over women.
00:40:31
Speaker
And we're not, we're equal. We're actually, we're the yin and yang. We're supposed to work together. And for these narcissist men, I was not a human being with a soul. I was not a woman he wanted to take care of. I was an object he wanted to control, abuse, and manipulate for his pleasure. But he liked having me on his arm to look normal in society.
00:41:02
Speaker
and accepted, and it's disgusting. I mean, it just breaks my heart, because there's so many women out there that do wanna partner, they do wanna have a family, and they find themselves in these shitty situations with these toxic men that aren't men, they're frickin' children and grown men's bodies, and that's all he was. I feel like,
00:41:28
Speaker
I mean, narcissism has become such a huge thing now because of, I think, social media and how everybody's able to share so much about their personal lives now for the world to see that people are starting to see it more now with the internet, social media. It's just really brought it out. It's always been there.
00:41:55
Speaker
I mean, my abuser is not a masculine man. There's nothing masculine about him ever. He couldn't even change a tire on his car. I had to show him how. Like, there's no want or desire to provide. It's, you know, it was just...
00:42:16
Speaker
It was all a facade. It was all fake. And he was a three year old little boy inside a man's suit. And if he didn't get his way, then he was going to pout about it and punish you and scream and yell and throw shit at your head or rape you. And then he had his mommy who is equally as toxic. I think she's a narcissist too.
00:42:37
Speaker
Pat and his little butt going, oh honey, it's okay. Trisha, why do you have to be so mean to him? Don't you know his wife cheated on him? He's been through a hard time. I'm like, I'm gonna set up some freaking video cameras and start recording the shit that he does because he's not the victim.
00:42:58
Speaker
So he creates the narrative, creates the narrative, creates this world, and then he enlists people, manipulates them, and enlists them to essentially sit on his, to build a case against you, to protect himself and his behavior so that he can perpetuate. They're called flying monkeys.
00:43:17
Speaker
yeah yeah yeah now i were were wrapping up on time here but it would not be our podcast if i didn't ask you the question. Of how you mentioned in the beginning how this relationship led you into plant medicine and how plant medicine has really.
00:43:38
Speaker
not to speak for you but helped you in the transition out of that relationship into where you are you know the badass confident finding your voice again self loving woman that you are. So can can you touch a little bit. On that and just how plant medicine. Play like what role did that play in your process.
Healing and Self-Discovery
00:44:02
Speaker
It was the hugest role in my process. I am spiritual, but I'm not religious. I hate organized religion. I think it's bullshit, but I'm also Native American heritage. So nature speaks to me. Church to me is being outside with my feet in the dirt or on the beach.
00:44:26
Speaker
And that's where I find peace and speak to God and pray and journal. I actually met Seth and we started talking about plant medicine and stuff like that. And he connected me with another person that connected me to my shaman. And I did my first ayahuasca ceremony actually at my condo in October of 2018, which was cool. Okay.
00:44:53
Speaker
And I've since then done four other ceremonies and it really just, it helped grow my relationship with God. It helped me truly see myself. My experiences were both terrifying, heartbreaking and beautiful, which, you know, every ayahuasca ceremony is. Just a lot of growth, a lot of acceptance and actually being able to
00:45:23
Speaker
see who God really is and how he's everywhere and how we're all connected. And it just really helped me connect back to myself and connect to my inner child that needed that validation and praise. Um, I had abandoned her so long and I still talk to her every day, like,
00:45:47
Speaker
I have a little altar in my, in my place with pictures of me from when I was three, um, when my parents divorced and I think that's when she and I split. Um, yeah, I've had beautiful experiences reconnecting with her and just playing with her and hanging out, um, when I meditate and I think
00:46:08
Speaker
plant medicine brought me home to myself. Um, and so I stopped putting up with the bullshit. I stopped accepting less than I deserved, um, and started having more faith in myself. And it's amazing. All those people just kind of disappeared because I stopped caring and yeah, it's been very, very healing. The most healing thing I've ever done in my life. So,
00:46:36
Speaker
Wow, I think Josh and I can both echo that for us as well. Yeah, I was like, but my speechlessness is just me going ditto on more levels than we can articulate. Yeah, absolutely. That's how I felt when I... Go ahead. I was gonna say, that's how I felt when I listened to your podcast, Josh, about your first ceremony. I sounded like I had Tourette's. I was walking my dog and I was like, yes, yes.
00:47:05
Speaker
It's like I was there with you. Because I was like, I know exactly what he's talking about. Yeah, yeah. We always say that the point of working with the plant medicine is to fall more in love with ourselves. That's our number one intention is to fall more in love with ourselves. Because when we do that, that self worth,
00:47:23
Speaker
is we're connected with that self-worth that allows us to have boundaries for ourselves and doesn't make it okay. It doesn't excuse other people for running over those boundaries because when we love ourselves, we're able to then love others. And sometimes that tough love is saying, hey, this is my boundary.
00:47:42
Speaker
You might not know how to do boundaries because you don't know how to love yourself. But I love myself. This is my boundary. And if you can't respect that, then I need you to stand over there. And a lot of people, like they react, like they don't know how to handle that because they've never had anybody implement boundaries for them in their life. But it is one of the key things of any good relationship that involves love, right? A relationship involves love. Loving people is setting good boundaries.
00:48:11
Speaker
Before we end this thing, I'm just curious about what your thoughts are on the narcissist.
00:48:22
Speaker
What is it, just in your reflection over the last year or so, as you look back, maybe what is it about, what are they afraid of? Why do they believe they have to hide, lie, control others, manipulate? What is it that they might be really afraid of? And do you feel like that's something that they can heal from and
Can Narcissists Change?
00:48:47
Speaker
come back from? Or is it kind of like there's something switched off and they're bought in completely
00:48:52
Speaker
There is actually been extensive studies done on a narcissist brain in the gray area where empathy and love and compassion exist and normal people does not exist in their brain. They cannot change. Their biggest fear is that they have so much shame because they know they're fraud pieces of shit.
00:49:18
Speaker
And they can't do anything about it. So what they just continue doing what they do because that works for them. They have no empathy. They don't have any regret for how they treat people. They just onto the next. It's how they live their entire lives. I know he goes to bed every night.
00:49:39
Speaker
talking to himself about what a piece of shit he is, but they know how to turn it off and just find somebody else to have pour into them. It's, it's a never ending cycle. They do not change. You can look at every
00:49:56
Speaker
psychologists, psychiatrists, psychotherapists research on working with narcissists if you even get them to therapy because they don't think anything's wrong with them. You're the problem. So good luck even getting them to admit they have a problem and go into therapy, but you will never change them. Never change. The best thing you can do is get the fuck away.
00:50:16
Speaker
So that part is turned off in their brain. And a lot of them are actually aware of the fact that they're a piece of shit or their behavior is fucked up. And so maybe what they're, would you agree with maybe the fact or the statement that what they're afraid of is being? Found out.
00:50:39
Speaker
Not accepted, yeah, found out, therefore not accepted. And so that's why they're forced to control everything. Yeah. So that they're constantly validated that they're okay. That's why they tear people down. That's why they get their flying monkeys and make these concocted delusional stories about who you are so that you look like the asshole and they're the victim, always. Yeah, so they don't have to change. They're never forced to change. They can stay inside their world.
00:51:09
Speaker
Yeah. As long as they can be the victim, they don't have to take personal responsibility. He would even say to me. Everyone else has to blame. Yeah. He even would say to me all the time. He was like, if you would live in my reality, everything would be a lot better for us. I was like, damn. It didn't hit me till much later, but he said that all the time. Like, come live in my reality and our life will be better. I'm like, fuck your reality.
00:51:36
Speaker
Yeah. No way. Well, I'm glad you held on to yours. Me too. Even though it was hard at times. That's amazing. Trisha, your story is amazing. And I'm just so honored that you came on here and shared it. I'm honored that you shared it with the world in your book. I know it's gonna help so many. I know it already has. Like some of the stories that you've shared with me just in regards to like,
00:52:02
Speaker
how people have found you, found your book, like it was divine. It was not any marketing or promotion. It was like they found you and it changed their life. And so there's a reason you went through it. It's sad that you went through it, but you have been chosen to be a voice to this to help other people. And I just think that's amazing. So thank you so much. Thanks for having me. It's been fun.
00:52:25
Speaker
Yeah. And just where can people find you? Plug your book again. Um, you know, do you, what is it? Do you do coaching? Do you have a website? Like how, how can people find your story in you? My book is on Amazon. Uh, again, it's the misaligned mine by Tricia Macalca. Um, I am on Instagram and see mermaid 81. Um,
00:52:49
Speaker
I connect with people there. I have done coaching. I love, love, love, love working with my warriors that are stuck or just got out and need support. So I'm available for that. You can just slide in my DMs. Other than that, I am just... I haven't done any marketing really. I'm just letting...
00:53:14
Speaker
I guess God do the work and he's, he's done pretty awesome. This book's done way more than I even imagined and saved his next victim. He was cheating on me with before I left. She's already gone. So that's amazing. Are you planning on going around speaking at all, maybe at certain events or conventions or something?
00:53:34
Speaker
Yeah, I'm doing a live YouTube show this Saturday. This will be my third one with NARC Abuse TV. It's at 4 p.m. That's on my Instagram if you need a link as well. And next year, 2022, something exciting coming in the works with a girlfriend of mine who's a jewelry designer. We're putting
00:53:59
Speaker
some stuff together for domestic violence survivors. That's going to be awesome. And I'll probably do a big event book signing and launch of our jewelry. So.
00:54:12
Speaker
Well, I don't wanna take it away from Josh cause he usually wraps things up, but I'm curious what you might say to somebody if you're sitting in front of a girl, a gal or a guy who was in that place of just like, I don't know where to go from here kind of thing. What would you, what kind of words would you leave our listeners with who might be in a similar situation that you were in?
00:54:36
Speaker
If any of this resonates with you or you're having to Google what your partner's behavior is, get the fuck out of there immediately, immediately, because it's only going to get worse.
00:54:52
Speaker
and you're killing yourself and your own heart in the process by staying. So I am a huge fan of no contact, delete, block, goodbye. No explanation needed. Cause they're just going to flip your words around and abuse you more with it. So just don't say shit, pack your stuff and go.
00:55:11
Speaker
That is some good, strong advice and probably could feel really scary and terrifying to do in that moment. But, you know, you are one of more and more voices that are giving hope to the women that are on the other side of the fence or trapped inside the cage, maybe is a better way of saying it. Yeah. So we will be sure to.
00:55:35
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot of help. We'll be sure to post all of your stuff in our show notes. So if you want to check out her book, support her in any way possible. If this does resonate, I would highly encourage you to slide into our DMS, as she said, and get help. Sometimes just not feeling alone in that transition is what you need to find the courage to make those hard steps.
00:55:59
Speaker
Thank you again, Trisha, for taking the time, sharing your story. My pleasure. And we look forward to probably having you on again to expand on other conversations. Yes. Damn.