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Josh Trent on Healthy Masculinity, Fatherhood, and Finding Inner Peace | Ep.# 69
28 Plays7 days ago
Josh Trent has spent over two decades in pursuit of truth in wellness, driven by a deep curiosity that took root in childhood. Raised in a broken home, he turned to sports for solace, unknowingly laying the foundation for a lifelong journey toward personal well-being.
Through plant medicine, breathwork, and deep self-exploration, he has turned struggles into wisdom, guiding others toward greater health, presence, and emotional intelligence. With over 700 podcast interviews featuring the world’s top wellness experts, Josh openly shares his journey, inspiring others to embody wellness and wisdom in their own lives.
Josh Trent has spent over two decades pursuing truth in wellness, driven by a deep curiosity that took root in childhood. Raised in a broken home, he turned to sports for solace, unknowingly laying the foundation for a lifelong journey toward personal well-being.g into one’s purpose. With raw honesty, he shares experiences with self-doubt, past addictions, and the practices that have helped him cultivate resilience and wisdom.
This episode is packed with deep insights, personal stories, and a fresh perspective on what it means to live with authenticity and emotional intelligence.
Key Takeaways:
1. Overcoming Self-Doubt & Imposter Syndrome
• The only way through self-doubt is action—confidence is built by doing the work.
• True commitment comes when there’s no turning back.
2. Vulnerability vs. Transparency in Leadership
• Transparency is sharing struggles; vulnerability is allowing others into the pain.
• Leadership requires both, but boundaries are essential.
• The best leaders illuminate the path for others rather than just directing the light.
3. The Role of Plant Medicine in Healing
• Psychedelics (psilocybin, ayahuasca) can be powerful tools—but only with spiritual maturity.
• Misuse can be dangerous; preparation through meditation and breathwork is key.
4. Breaking Free from Limiting Patterns
• Removing toxic influences, healing childhood wounds, and deepening spiritual connection is crucial for growth.
• Personal transformation isn’t just intellectual—it requires emotional and spiritual healing.
5. The Power of Words & Identity Shifting
• Words shape reality; self-talk determines perception.
• Instead of resisting negative thoughts, engaging with them (e.g., Internal Family Systems Therapy) leads to healing.
• True power comes from peace, not force—wholeness makes us unshakable.
6. Three Things Men Must Focus On for Growth
• Emotional Epigenetics: Healing inherited trauma rather than being controlled by it.
• Clarity on Purpose: Knowing who you are and what you stand for.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking a deeper understanding of masculinity, healing, and personal evolution.
Host: Josh Cearbaugh
Website: https://joshcearbaugh.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jcearbaugh/
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshcearbaugh/
Podcast: https://www.multifacetedmasculinity.com/
Online Course: https://www.jumpstartyourlife.com
Guest: Josh Trent
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Josh Trent's Influence
00:00:00
Speaker
One of the coolest things about having a podcast is the opportunity to be able to speak to people that you really respect and that you admire. And today's guest definitely fits into that category. We dive into some topics that, quite frankly, I'm still thinking about and am challenged by,
00:00:22
Speaker
and It's because of the depth that he was able to take the conversation. and I'm talking about Josh Trent. He is the host of the podcast Wellness and Wisdom.
00:00:35
Speaker
He's published over 700 episodes and had the opportunity to speak to some individuals that have really honestly helped shape who I am today. so I would recommend highly of saving this episode because you're probably going to need to listen to it a few times, sharing with some friends, and obviously subscribing because we've got some really exciting guests in the pipeline that are going to be coming out here shortly.
00:01:04
Speaker
So without further ado, let's dive into the conversation with Josh Trent.
Exploring Masculinity and Personal Growth
00:01:11
Speaker
Men, we are not simple, chest-thumping, rock-smashing, fire-starting barbarians.
00:01:18
Speaker
We have death. We intensely feel. We are scared, yet brave. We love to have fun. We're imperfect and make mistakes. We're compassionate and loving.
00:01:31
Speaker
We are multifaceted. Let's explore the reality of masculinity together.
00:01:43
Speaker
So if you have followed me or my journey or my podcast for any period of time, you know that I have openly said that this podcast is somewhat selfishly for me.
00:01:55
Speaker
And that is not only because of the fact that I'm a verbal processor, but also the people I get to talk to and learn from. And today, i would say is um is a highlight and going to be a great example of that because guest today, ah he is farther along in the journey of podcasting than I am and has gotten an opportunity to talk to some pretty amazing people. and so hearing his journey and his story and pulling out his wisdom.
00:02:23
Speaker
ah Some of these questions are going to be selfishly for me, but I know that people listening can can take that wisdom and apply it to their life in
Josh's Podcasting Journey and Challenges
00:02:32
Speaker
their own way. So Josh, thank you so much for taking the time, carving it out. I think we were talking, it it was almost a year of kind of back and forth to get us to this point.
00:02:42
Speaker
Yeah, thanks for having me, man. Sometimes things need to marinate for a little bit before they're ready to serve. So maybe there's just a good marinade. Well, and ah not to get woo-woo right off the bat, but tomorrow is my birthday. And at the each year mark, I take the last day before my birthday and and look at kind of where I've been and where I'm heading. and And this is a big transition year in a lot of ways. And so I don't see us talking on this day as a coincidence.
00:03:11
Speaker
So cool. What an honor, man. I'm glad I get to be a part of your pre-birthday. yeah Yeah, absolutely. um So yeah, around around the realm of podcasting, like I said, i yeah I've got a handful of episodes, had some guests, etc. But I really wanted to hear from you what all the way back, if you can recall, ah to the beginning.
00:03:35
Speaker
And that is that what was it like to... to really take the leap and say that I'm going to go for this. like I feel like, at least for myself, and I know for a lot of men, we have these dreams, we have these aspirations, these desires, but we don't take that leap. We don't really dive in and go for it.
00:03:54
Speaker
And I'm just curious what that process was like for you, as well as what really pushed you over the edge and helped you take that leap and take action. That's a really cool metaphor, the leaping from the ledge, because yeah anything that's worth any value is going to be counterintuitive to where someone's personal and spiritual development is when they want it.
00:04:19
Speaker
In other words, I might have big dreams and aspirations at a certain point in my life, but it's actually, for lack of a better term, my higher self calling me forward to do the thing that my soul wants me to do.
00:04:30
Speaker
um One thing I'm going to be very mindful of in our conversation today, because I can tell you have a ah really intelligent vibe. And like you said, you're learning for you like I am. We learn in public as podcasters.
Karma, Dharma, and Personal Transformation
00:04:40
Speaker
But I'm going to be really cognizant of my language that if I'm using esoteric language that I always bring it back home.
00:04:46
Speaker
And so I think from a karmic level, if you look at the traditions in India, the karma and the Dharma that we learn as men are two pages of scrolls that our soul chooses to unlock.
00:04:59
Speaker
Now, what do I mean by that? What I mean by that is we innately feel in our deep guts, in our intuition, that we have a dream and that dream could be really audacious, really wonderful, really huge.
00:05:11
Speaker
but we're just not at that dream yet. We're not living our dream yet. And so I think in order for us to actually live out our dharma, which could be a ah definition or an expression of our higher self, to use that term, yeah the higher self might just be the most actualized, optimized, most badass, incredible, powerful, peaceful warrior that we could ever be, yet here we are.
00:05:34
Speaker
And i think in order for us to actually actualize our dharma and live our dharma or live our purpose, that we have to burn through some of the spiritual credit card first. We have some debts to be paid, man.
00:05:46
Speaker
And those debts are from this lifetime and many before us. Sometimes we pay for the debts as men ah from the sins of our grandfathers and our fathers and our great greats. And we don't even know it.
00:05:57
Speaker
This is why I love epigenetics. And i' I'd love to weave that into our conversation, the yeah emotional epigenetics that I'm working on Because what I found in 44 years, my I'm going to be 45 in April.
00:06:09
Speaker
Man, in 44 years, i just keep coming back to this same teaching point. And it is if we want to have the actualization of our big dream, if we want to leap from the ledge, to use your words, we actually have to experience the opposite of it for so long that that fuel source of pain becomes our fulcrum to change.
00:06:29
Speaker
In other words, I have to feel really empty, really painful. I have to suffer somewhat, not to the degree that I did. I don't think people need to suffer that much. yeah But we have to suffer. We have to go through pain as a vehicle of transformation because it's as if our actualized self is in a castle.
00:06:49
Speaker
And the guardians of growth that stand in front of that castle will not let us pass into the castle unless we have learned the lesson from our lifetimes and many that came before it.
00:07:00
Speaker
So I had to get a bit esoteric there. And then, of course, I'm happy to like share the story. But the story is really a play-by-play of the spiritual and esoteric metaphors and examples that I've given.
00:07:13
Speaker
Because we all my story is just a fragment of yours and everyone else's. We're all on the hero's journey. Whether we pick up the phone or not. Yeah, I hear that. And i I do want to hear the story, but maybe to to dig a little bit deeper in what you just said, i think what I'm curious about and and wanting to get your take on is There are a lot of men that see the guards of the castle and are not willing or never confronted.
00:07:42
Speaker
That they they fall into a victim mentality or or they let fear win or however you want to present that or package that. And you're someone who who worked through it.
00:07:54
Speaker
You're someone who was willing to make that transition to suffer. Yes. I mean, I i have People I know, i mean, even my own father, he's he has said to me, Josh, the best I can hope for in life is to surround myself by people who are thriving and vicariously live through them.
00:08:13
Speaker
And he's just, he's said, I'm i'm a victim. I cannot thrive. I cannot push through. to engage in life in in the way that my heart's desire is.
Vulnerability and Authentic Leadership
00:08:25
Speaker
And so really what I'm curious of is have, what have you found in your own life as well as other people you've talked to that helps punch through that veil and using my metaphor of of like taking that leap instead of, cause there's so many men that just stand on, stand on the edge and look down and go, holy shit, I don't think I can build an airplane on the way down. I'm just going to stand here and play safe.
00:08:49
Speaker
Ooh, what a deep question. ah Well, let's unpack it in like three or four compartments. I think at the crux of your question, you are, i love the truth seeking in the question because it's like, what makes a man become fully, truly actualized as an embodied man and live his purpose and live his dreams?
00:09:11
Speaker
And I think there's many ways to get there, but they all happen by walking in a certain direction. And the direction that we all must walk in and that I've learned to walk in is to be fiercely and radically committed to all the stories, all the beliefs that I've inherited.
00:09:31
Speaker
I'm a meeting making machine. So the traumas, capital T and lowercase T that have happened for me, have happened for my greatest good. And so it's the recognition that we're all walking in the same direction if we're gonna be on purpose and fully actualized.
00:09:45
Speaker
And yes, and in the second compartment is all the the clothes and the luggage that we got from our lifetime of pain, of making fear real, you know we we are meaning making machines, of making beliefs real because I decided when a trauma happened that I wasn't worthy or I wasn't loved.
00:10:06
Speaker
yeah And then in the third compartment, there's the remembrance of who we are. There's actually going through the directionality of starting the path of growth, then unpacking the shit that's not for us and it's not real.
00:10:18
Speaker
And then really putting that to task and and reformulating, repatterning an identity that has nothing to do with the old beliefs and the old stories. And then the fourth compartment is the continued maintenance of that.
00:10:32
Speaker
we have to continually, you know if if we want to grow, if we want to be peaceful and and be a ah multifaceted man, we have to be able to continue to recommit at all times to beliefs, stories, and ways of being popping up that are not loving and that are not kind to ourselves or others.
00:10:52
Speaker
And so that's the big lesson that I've learned. And by the way, I'm still learning. i i think I'll learn for the rest of my life. Yeah. Because I'm always met with my limitations all the time. I'm always met with my beliefs. I'm always met with my stuff.
00:11:06
Speaker
And I say, good, you know, it might not feel good in the moment. But everything that's happening for me is truly happening for my good so that I can learn how to navigate through it and share how I did it for others.
00:11:20
Speaker
Not because I'm better than. It's just because that's the whole point of us being here, I believe, is to share our journey, share our heroic journey with the people that are on their heroic journey. We're all moving in the same direction.
00:11:34
Speaker
At least people that are into this podcast. Yeah. And so if we can share with one another the lessons we've learned, it takes some humility. It takes real humility and real grace and real vulnerability in order to have that peacefulness to share it from. Because I believe that power only comes from peace.
00:11:51
Speaker
So that's the beginning of the unpacking, I believe. How do you how do you navigate for you? How do you navigate?
00:12:02
Speaker
embracing vulnerability and being the teacher because of your life experiences, because of what you've unpacked, because of what you share, you know, by nature of who you are, you're a teacher, right? i ah You could use, you could frame that in a whole bunch of different ways, but yeah.
00:12:21
Speaker
Um, what does that look like to, to say, okay, vulnerability is one of my anchors, right? But I'm also, I know that for me, who I am is that I'm called to be a teacher.
00:12:34
Speaker
What does that look like for you? Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're right. It could be teacher, guide, mentor, speaker, thought leader, like fill in the blank, right? It could be any, yeah basically just someone who is sharing their life experience from a place of earned wisdom or or real embodiment so that it can be helpful to someone else. Would you say that's really the archetype we're talking about?
00:12:56
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. so So if that's the case, then I believe that you cannot be a teacher or a guide unless you are vulnerable.
00:13:07
Speaker
Period,
Josh's Childhood and Health Struggles
00:13:08
Speaker
full stop. Because if you're a leader in some way, in any business vertical or psychotherapy, men's work, whatever, any lane you pick that you're identifying as a leader or a guide on,
00:13:21
Speaker
No one will listen to you and no one will follow you unless you can share a reality with them that they themselves understand. We've heard the phrase that you have to meet somebody where they are.
00:13:34
Speaker
Well, guess what? If you're teaching people where they are, you better believe that you've been where they are. Or maybe in some ways you still are and you're just... packaging and promoting and speaking about it because you're passionate about it, right? Our mess becomes our message.
00:13:47
Speaker
Our pain becomes our purpose. These aren't just, you know, alliterations that are cool to say they're real. And so my pain in my life has come from me not being vulnerable, from me not knowing how, when, or the context ah that a sharing of vulnerability is real.
00:14:07
Speaker
I was born to a a mother who I love with my whole heart and being. And when I was in utero, she was having the early stages of bipolar.
00:14:18
Speaker
I came out a month early. i was put in an incubator for two weeks. And I had ah some pretty severe hypervigilance as a child that I'm still at 44 unpacking, right? The beliefs that are still here for me that I'll share.
00:14:32
Speaker
i guess you could even say it's vulnerable, but I don't even care that it's vulnerable because I'm just going to share it, right? Sure. It always surprises me, by the way, Josh, when people go, hold on, I'm about to be vulnerable. That's what I know that they're using strategic vulnerability.
00:14:46
Speaker
I'm just going to share because I'm sharing. I don't really give a fuck if it's vulnerable or not. I'm just going share. my mom My mom was bipolar. And so when I grew up, I never really had an understanding of the home base being really safe.
00:14:59
Speaker
And my dad would come around. He left when I was very young. And so for the first 15 years of my life, I really didn't know what it was like to just...
00:15:10
Speaker
Just be at peace. Just be at peace. Because my caregivers, my my parents were so in chaos and so not in peace and so going through their own incredibly challenging life and ordeal that, of course, by osmosis, emotional osmosis, I was taught that a world wasn't a safe place.
00:15:31
Speaker
And guess what happened? I grew up, I was overweight, I had massive sinusitis issues and um in immune issues, heavy medications, not breastfeeding for long enough, antibiotic use, chronic ear infections, chronic sinusitis, like missing months of school, being bullied for being overweight because the antibiotics shut down my gut microbiome, which made me gain weight. These are all things I know now.
00:15:54
Speaker
But I didn't know them then. And by the way, neither did my parents, right? and No one knew this back then in the 80s and 90s. So then, you know, flash forward, I get to this place where I'm 20-ish, working as an automotive mechanic because I just needed to feel safe because money was such a threat that I still didn't know how to breathe, developed a massive pornography addiction, lost a bunch of weight, gained a bunch of weight, became a personal trainer.
00:16:20
Speaker
And then I just started shining light on other people. But here's what happens for y'all that are watching us on video right now. If I'm holding a flashlight in my hand, like I was for the first 30 years, actually, for the first 20 years, i didn't know what the hell i was doing. For like 12, 15 years, I was just shining light on other people.
00:16:40
Speaker
But when I hold a flashlight and I just shine light and be of service to everyone else, guess what part of me stays dark? It's the space between my hand and my heart. I'm not shining light on myself. I'm just shining light on other people.
00:16:52
Speaker
And this is what happens to personal therapists and chiropractors and yoga instructors. they even Even psychotherapists, they become such a ah bringer of light to others that they never shine the light on themselves.
00:17:04
Speaker
And one thing that that I believe and And I've come across this in the past year or so. If I'm going to be a leader, Josh, to to your question of like, what makes a true leader of holding the world of vulnerability and holding the world of having the life experience to guide or to lead, it comes from holding up a lantern.
00:17:23
Speaker
When I hold up a lantern, I shine light on me and I shine light on you and I shine light on the space. And then we're all illuminated. Here I am with my stuff. Here I am with my imperfections.
00:17:34
Speaker
Here I am with my wounds. But here I am to help because I'm helping myself as I help everyone else. That's a a real leader. A real leader holds a lantern. They don't just shine light on other people.
00:17:45
Speaker
This is something that we see on Instagram that's so toxic, man. It's just these spiritual commodification speakers that want to commodify spirituality and package it and promote it. But they never talk about their struggles.
00:17:57
Speaker
They never share their deepest truths about their own struggles in their
Transparency vs. Vulnerability
00:18:01
Speaker
life. And to me, I'm an immediate no to these people. Immediate no. And these are some of the people with the largest platforms in the world that never, ever share their stuff.
00:18:12
Speaker
So how do we be a leader and hold the worlds? We just fucking do it. We just do the work in public, much like you and I do as podcasters. We learn in public. We lead in public.
00:18:23
Speaker
And we lead by holding a lantern.
00:18:27
Speaker
I love that. I i guess, well, let's just be vulnerable. or be real I'm wrestling with what you're saying. Because... of course. in Why wouldn't you? Well, in what I just heard you say, I didn't hear you describe vulnerability.
00:18:43
Speaker
I heard you describe transparency. And because for me, at least in in in my understanding of the difference between the two... There's, but's let's say that there are three tiers of individuals. There's the individual that you will not follow or you or I will not follow because they're not willing to share their stuff.
00:19:02
Speaker
And then there's the individual that's willing to share their stuff, right? To me, that's transparency. And then there's the people that are willing to be vulnerable and actually open up and and and let that underbelly of who they are be seen. Now, there's the unhealthy side of it, right? Where people...
00:19:20
Speaker
pick up their phone and record a TikTok while they're crying just so that they can get followers. Like, it's not that. Oh, that's so gnarly. But, but, but I guess, I guess what, what I've always seen as vulnerability is, you know, like what you just shared or what I shared about my dad, to me, that's transparency. That's not vulnerability. Yeah.
00:19:40
Speaker
Vulnerability is when I'm at a low and a weak point and I pick up the phone and I call you and I'm crying on the phone with you. I'm i'm i'm letting my guard down to actually let you sit in my mess with me is vulnerability where at least in my understanding is like what you're describing is vulnerability.
00:19:59
Speaker
is to be an authentic leader or a voice is to learn how to navigate being that thought leader, that teacher, et cetera, while being willing to be transparent and let other people see your process, but then still have a ah selective inner core that you choose to be vulnerable with because it's not actually healthy to be vulnerable with everyone. Does that make sense?
00:20:22
Speaker
There's a lot here, and I love your pushback because it's super intuitive and healthy. So when I say... When I say that I'm holding up a lantern, what I mean is I'm shining my light on my processes, on my life, and on my vulnerabilities.
00:20:38
Speaker
So for me, they're one in the same. Now I can understand how you how you'd how you'd bifurcate those and and separate those. What I'm sharing is that transparency and shining light and vulnerability all live within the same lexicon. like They're all there for me. So transparency for me is vulnerability because what is the, ah what is the opposite of vulnerability in your opinion?
00:21:01
Speaker
Like if someone like what is vulnerabilities antithesis? Um, I mean, it would just, it'd be being closed off, fake, putting on a closed fake.
00:21:13
Speaker
Yeah. Like wall shut down. So if I'm, yeah if I'm, if I'm holding up a light and I'm shining it out of my fakeness, everybody's going to see that. you know Sure. They're, they're all good. They're gonna be like, this guy's full of shit, you know? So, yeah so for me, it's,
00:21:29
Speaker
I think you're correct on like the three different things you said. Yes, transparency is big, but also so is our capacity to have discernment about when we will be vulnerable. Because vulnerability without borders is really just is um unhealthy.
00:21:44
Speaker
Vulnerability without borders is is actually self-limiting and it can be really harmful to to who's sharing and to others. Yeah. Vulnerability without borders, Josh. I'm sure you've heard this before, man. Like somebody will say, well, brother or sister, it's just my truth.
00:21:59
Speaker
And if you can't handle my truth, then, you know, you need some, you got to do some work on yourself. It's like, that is the worst way to live in my opinion. It's the worst way to communicate.
00:22:10
Speaker
Just because you have a truth and you think you're being vulnerable doesn't mean that your vulnerable truth is going to be of service to yourself or the person you're speaking to. So there's an element of of maturity and discernment that comes into the transparency aspect Just because people can see into my life doesn't mean that I have zero borders about being vulnerable with them without a border, because then that opens me up to all kinds of things, right?
00:22:37
Speaker
Like psychic attack and people actually, if you look at remote viewing and and entities, like when you open yourself up without borders, you can open yourself up to some very dark things and dark people.
00:22:48
Speaker
So I'm discerning about what I share and how I share it. But I always use the guidepost, man, if it scares the shit out of me. But I also know if I sit with it for long enough and I know that I've learned enough to share authentically about it, then I'll go and be counterintuitive to what my, quote, feelings are wanting me to do. My feelings want me to keep it in and not share it because it's too scary.
00:23:14
Speaker
But I've learned that the scariest stuff is actually where all the medicine is. It's like the most counterintuitive thing would be for me to have shared about my pornography addiction early on.
00:23:25
Speaker
But I just went for it. And that was actually part of my healing in the pornography was to just share that I was struggling with it. But I did it in a way where I was already on the path of really being honest with myself about it. So there's a lot of nuance here. I agree with you that transparency and vulnerability can be um confusing.
00:23:46
Speaker
I do think they can be one in the same, but maybe we could say that transparency is an overlay on top of the vulnerability that it holds inside of it. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Okay.
00:23:59
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I i do i'm just i actually I've listened to several of your podcasts, but i I have not heard the story. Because I don't know. Let's call it intuitively. I feel like there's nuggets within that of of that. I want to circle back to you taking that leap and being willing to to jump. and In the realm specifically of podcasting, but then also...
00:24:23
Speaker
what came up for you? I mean, there's obviously that journey of learning how to be transparent and vulnerable within what you're sharing. And that's a conscious choice, which I think is what's positioned you, you know, to be who you are in the sense of a thought leader, etc.
00:24:36
Speaker
um But all the way back in the beginning, why did you choose to step out? And what helped you step out in the first place?
00:24:47
Speaker
Man, I was 33 years old when I got my first really bell rung of the metaphor of Joseph Campbell's hero's journey, you know, the separation, initiation, return.
00:24:58
Speaker
My mom's illness towards the end of my 33rd year and definitely in my 34th year got so bad that we had to place her in a mental residence, mental home.
00:25:09
Speaker
Okay. And that just tore me in half. Yeah. Having my mom go and be in a mental home, it was like this... moment of truth that i didn't want to see and putting her in there i think she was there for six months or so it was really challenging and then that in that same span of time i ended up breaking up with a woman that i was in a long-term relationship with and also i got fired from a quote safe corporate job and it happened all within like half a year i mean it was just like three huge uppercuts from the universe
00:25:45
Speaker
And I got to this point where I had all my possessions in duffel bags and I was renting a spare room for like a few hundred bucks for my friend at the Omni and in la Costa, Carlsbad, San Diego.
00:25:57
Speaker
And I just said, there's more to life than this. i've I've got to live my life. I've been living someone else's life from fear. I've been in fear my whole life.
Commitment and Persistence in Podcasting
00:26:08
Speaker
There's got to be something else. And I had been very angry at God because God couldn't fix my mom's illness. God couldn't make my relationship with my father healthy. God couldn't make me let go of pornography addiction and and sleeping with tons and tons of women.
00:26:25
Speaker
And I had wanted to be, when I was a little kid, I used to listen to Dr. Drew and Adam Carolla on Loveline. I don't know if you remember that show. Okay, yeah. And I used to listen to it behind my head on like an old school tape deck.
00:26:39
Speaker
And I said, one day I'm going to be a radio DJ. I would love to be like a radio DJ. That'd be so fun. And I just kept, it kept gnawing at me like, you've got to do this, man. You've got to learn how to speak.
00:26:50
Speaker
Like This is something that your soul is calling you to do. This was like the narrative in my head for three years, Josh, from like 2012, all the way to 2015, I would watch all these other podcasters. I would want to do what they're doing, but I had so many limiting beliefs and I had so much pain from my mother's illness and and just all this meaning that I had made about all this grief, utter grief that I was feeling.
00:27:15
Speaker
And then finally I just said, fuck it. I'm going to put, I think it was 3000 or $2,500 credit card. and I'm gonna buy this Podcasters Paradise membership. And I'm gonna learn from John Lee Dumas, and I'm gonna launch my podcast. And I just needed some support, you know?
00:27:30
Speaker
yeah And on I'll never forget, like my very first episode, 700-ish episodes ago, 10 years ago in 2015, I actually launched the podcast from a basement,
00:27:43
Speaker
When I was still in relationship with my ex, and shortly after I launched the podcast, boom, we broke up. My mom had already been in the mental home. I had gotten fired from the corporate job six months before. So after six months of being in pain, I was like, I can't do this life anymore. I didn't want to commit suicide.
00:28:03
Speaker
I wasn't thinking of leaving the earth. But in that night, I had to give you the backstory because I i really wanted to share how much I wanted to be a DJ and just speak and just, just for the fun of it, just for the learning of it, you know?
00:28:14
Speaker
So that night at my friend's house in, in Carlsbad
00:28:20
Speaker
with all my possessions in duffel bags, dude, I had my computer on this rickety ass plastic stand and I was recording podcasts. I was just like literally a couple months in and I I just went outside and it was like foggy that night and it was really cold and the marine layer was creeping in. And I, I just like kneeled down on this um Spanish tile floor that he had on his deck, this brown Spanish tile floor with like the moisture. And it was just like eerie evening.
00:28:52
Speaker
And I just looked up at the sky because I thought at that time, that's where God lived. And I just said, God, there's, there's no way I can continue on. Like, please show me the way, please show me the way God.
00:29:03
Speaker
because I don't want to live like this anymore. I can't do this anymore. I have so much grief. I have so much pain. Like, what's the truth, God? How do I live my life well?
00:29:13
Speaker
And it was from that moment that I decided i will be homeless and I will die other than being successful. I made a decision in that moment. I will do whatever it takes.
00:29:24
Speaker
I will work 18 hours a day. i will jump out of bed in my boxer shorts and work all the way till two in the morning and sleep six hours and do it all over again the next day. I will learn how to podcast. I will learn as if my life depends on it.
00:29:40
Speaker
And that's where the podcast was born. It was ah really birthed from my own pain and my own um disillusion of meaning that I had made from my own suffering. And I just wanted the truth.
00:29:51
Speaker
And it's been that question ever since for the past 10 years. How do I live my life well? I mean, that's what the Wellness and Wisdom podcast is based upon. It's gone through many iterations, which you know we can jam on, but that's really the... like You know, it's funny. I can feel the emotion in my stomach and in my solar plexus and in my throat The same right now in this moment with you as I felt it 10 years ago on that Spanish tile floor with the marine layer outside. It feels the same to me because I can just go there and I can feel how much pain he was in.
00:30:24
Speaker
And if I'm being really honest, the cycles of pain have continued since then. There's been a lot of joy. There's been a lot of beauty. There's been a lot of growth. I've become successful in many ways, but the ultimate success I'm still looking for has not been actualized yet.
00:30:40
Speaker
And that's what I'm currently in the process of. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for sharing. I there's so much that I could extrapolate out of that for myself and maybe offline. We can ah we can dig a little bit deeper in there, but i
00:30:59
Speaker
So, okay, you took the leap. I'm going to find a way to make it work no matter what, right? Yeah. It starts to grow, whether that, and I don't know what it was for you, whether that was your second episode or your 200th episode or whatever.
00:31:13
Speaker
There begins to be momentum, right? And,
00:31:20
Speaker
well, two things that I'm curious of. One is, um You would be the first person I've ever spoken with that did not have some form of an imposter syndrome creep up in that journey and that process.
00:31:34
Speaker
But maybe you didn't. And two is... Oh, no idea. Okay. All right. All right. All right. So then... As that came up, like as you began to, as it began to evolve and grow and you're like, man, all of this work that I'm putting in, I'm i'm seeing things begin to shift. There's, there's a glimmer of light in the darkness for, for where I'm headed.
00:31:56
Speaker
The imposter syndrome and then just the self doubt, right? Like all of that simultaneously kind of colliding in on one another, One, what was that like for you? And then two, how did you navigate through that? And maybe, you know, I mean, to a degree, we may still all feel it at times, et cetera, like you said in in your journey. But really when, like, how did you, I guess my question that I'm trying to to find to ask you is, how did you not sabotage your way out of the thing that you had committed to?
00:32:28
Speaker
Well, because I had already sabotaged it for long enough. i had already made i had already made ah a quasi-commitment, a half-assed commitment in 2012, where I sat on it for three years.
00:32:41
Speaker
But because of my lack of emotional intelligence, self-awareness, and ah an inability, really, Josh, to process pain or process emotions at that time, yeah we're either a river or dam, right? So I was a dam.
00:32:56
Speaker
All the emotions within me were actually blocking me and sabotaging me from the the half-assed promise that I had made to myself. And I needed it, brother. I needed, I needed to be dropped to my knees on that floor.
00:33:08
Speaker
I needed to have that conversation with God. Because if I didn't have that, I wouldn't have made the real commitment, the real promise that I actually, and I really mean this, like I was willing to do whatever it took Hands down, I really was. yeah and yeah And that was the moment where the sabotage of not starting, of not doing the thing ended.
00:33:34
Speaker
Now, of course, as it, as time went on, you know, in the first like month, there was probably like like a hundred, hundred people, um hundred listeners,
Wisdom and Overcoming Imposter Syndrome
00:33:42
Speaker
right? Like my family members and friends, right?
00:33:46
Speaker
Sure. So, you know, it took a long time for me to go and network and meet the right people. you figure out how am I going to do this thing? You know, I feel like real success in all ways is a combination of talent, timing, and opportunity, right? Specialized knowledge is in there too. Talent, timing, yeah opportunity, and specialized knowledge.
00:34:11
Speaker
So I was gaining my specialized knowledge by doing the interviews. I had somewhat of a talent because I was able to understand things and ask questions and speak. And then I also just needed time. I needed the pressure of time to form the diamond of wisdom.
00:34:28
Speaker
And this is honestly what Napoleon Hill talks about in Outwitting the Devil. You know, he asked the devil, what is wisdom? And the devil's response was, wisdom is being in harmony with nature's laws and being in harmony with others so that they can yield you the things you desire.
00:34:45
Speaker
And so that you can actually use the pressure of time and experience to grow real wisdom. And that's what I needed back then. And I still actually need it now.
00:34:56
Speaker
And so how did I navigate it?
00:35:00
Speaker
I navigated it by... really having a clear North Star of what I wanted to feel like, of how I wanted to feel. And a lot of spiritual teachers out there will use, you know, how you feel is everything. And that's true to a degree. Because I think whenever we set a goal,
00:35:20
Speaker
and maybe you can attest to this, we set a goal of like money or followers or you know a structure of how we want things tangibly to be, but really what we all want is the feeling of peace, is the feeling of fulfillment.
00:35:34
Speaker
yeah And so I just always tuned into this feeling of, I know that this peace is possible. I know that this fulfillment is possible and I'm going to fucking work and learn and do whatever it takes to be in the resonance, to be in the harmonic understanding of what peace and fulfillment is.
00:35:54
Speaker
I'm still on that journey, brother. I'm still there. Now, what guided me throughout the pitfalls and the ups and downs, I ended up going into $80,000 in credit card debt in the first two years of my podcast because I was trying to make money. But then when I made the money, it would distract me from podcasting. I mean, the ultimate crucible that all of us go through.
00:36:15
Speaker
When you jump off the ledge, your bills and responsibilities don't stop. sure So what did I say? i said, fuck it. I'm going to go into whatever debt I need to do and I'll just declare bankruptcy because at least at that point, I'll have figured out how to make money.
00:36:30
Speaker
That was a terrible choice.
00:36:33
Speaker
I would not recommend people doing that. I would recommend you Having your expenses as low as possible, getting a room in someone's house, devoting 24 hours a day to your craft, and then not going to into credit card debt.
00:36:46
Speaker
That's what I would recommend. But that's the path I chose. And that's the lesson I needed to learn. I had a lot of wounds around money, which is maybe another part of the podcast. So that was it, man. I navigated it by... just really an inner knowing with my eyes closed and inner knowing of what piece was possible. Cause I saw others have it.
00:37:04
Speaker
I saw all these other big influencers and podcasters have it having it, having the feeling of fulfillment. Cause I saw other people having it. And i asked myself, I'm really no different than them. They've just put in the work.
00:37:16
Speaker
They have the specialized knowledge. They have the relationships. They have the timing and opportunity. They've just earned it. So I just decided that I would earn it too because...
00:37:27
Speaker
You and I are no different. We're all moving in the same direction. I think what happens that derails us is this imposter syndrome that you mentioned. If I'm not careful, if we're not careful, the imposter syndrome can come in and and we can actually believe the voice of that imposter syndrome as real.
00:37:47
Speaker
I think that imposter syndrome comes in because it's a guardian of growth. I think imposter syndrome comes in as your higher self to actually protect you from any disbelief in yourself that you can't achieve the thing that your soul wants.
00:38:05
Speaker
But it does it paradoxically by its opposite. Imposter syndrome comes in and it plants the seeds of doubt and it says, who are you to do this? You're not going to make enough money.
00:38:15
Speaker
You're going to be homeless. You're going to blah, blah, blah, blah. blah If I choose to attach emotion to that imposter syndrome, 10 out of 10 times that imposter syndrome will win the antidote to imposter syndrome is doing the work because when you do the work you yield yourself confidence through life experience that the imposter syndrome simply cannot be at war with you on anymore like at this stage of the game the only imposter syndrome that comes in for me is met with kind of like a smile and a playfulness
00:38:50
Speaker
Or I say, huh, that's interesting that you're coming around. What are you here to teach me? And then I'll just listen. Oh, well, I'm worried that this might not work out. And I'm worried that that not might work out. And I'll actually have a conversation with myself.
00:39:04
Speaker
okay Richard Schwartz has a ah really phenomenal wing of psychotherapy called IFS or internal family systems. He believes that we all have different different parts inside of us. And so I'll speak to the part of me that's scared.
00:39:16
Speaker
that's feeling like an imposter. And I'll say, okay, well, what are you here to teach me? What is it that you need? And it'll say, I need this much money every month. I'll be like, great. We'll go ahead and make that happen. What else do you need?
00:39:28
Speaker
Well, I need to know that we're speaking from experience and that we have ah the life experience and the wisdom to share. Great. Let me go ahead and design this curriculum or let me go ahead and show you what we're building. So instead of like rejecting that part of myself, that's the imposter, I just fucking let him in.
00:39:44
Speaker
just let him in. Yeah. Let's just have a conversation, man. Cause you're, you're in me anyways. Yeah. So I'm sorry for the long-winded answer to your very potent question. It's good. But well, maybe sorry, not sorry. Like people need to hear this because yeah our responsibilities don't stop when we have a dream.
00:40:00
Speaker
When we jump off the ledge, we meet ourselves and we meet ourselves the whole way, dude. We meet all our beliefs. We meet all our imposters. We meet all of our parts is what I'm saying. And we also meet our epigenetic transfer of our lineage, which is a whole nother thing.
00:40:13
Speaker
Yeah, no, i I love what you just touched on. And I just want to highlight one thing that you just said or your response to the imposter, which I have struggled with. um But and and it's using the IFS system, you know, of ah essentially not not shaming that part of you, engaging with that part of you, but not shaming that part of you or hating that part of you or saying, I need to change it, like willing my way into a better version of me.
00:40:43
Speaker
All of that, right? But learning how to just acknowledge that it's there, to engage with it, to essentially love it instead of reject it or fight it or hate it. Because at least in my own life, what I've learned is is when I fight it or when I shame it, it almost, its potency grows because it's fighting for its voice to be heard even harder.
00:41:06
Speaker
It's like, it's like I've got five kids and if I don't acknowledge one of my kids, they're just going to get louder and louder and louder until I'm like, okay, what do what do you need? What do you need?
00:41:19
Speaker
And just learning how to respond to that the way that you just described, I think is a game changer for a lot of people. I don't think imposter syndrome ever stops, man.
00:41:31
Speaker
I don't. I think that it's normal and and healthy and human to have yeah doubt at times. But when we choose, because it is a choice, whether I want to admit it to myself or not, it's a choice when I allow it to to take form.
Personal Growth and Letting Go of Negativity
00:41:49
Speaker
Yeah. Right. Like in the early 1900s, man, there was this book called Thoughts Are Things and it was the New Thought Movement. And it's what trained Wallace Wattles and Napoleon Hill and many other of the early New Thought Movement people.
00:42:04
Speaker
Okay. And it's what Dispenza actually hinges upon as well. When we have a thought and we attach emotion to that thought, it becomes the the emotion becomes a key that unlocks the door of thought.
00:42:17
Speaker
Right. When I start pairing my emotions with my imposter syndrome and I start traveling way down on the Hawkins scale and I start getting into grief and empathy and shame and anger and resentment, I'm not in the creator mind.
00:42:32
Speaker
I can't be in my creator mind if I'm stuck at these low levels. But what we really get to come to terms with is it is all our choice. All the things with my mom and my dad and my life and my, my, my, my my They're happening to you.
00:42:48
Speaker
They're happening to me. They're happening to all of us. And they're not actually happening to us. They're truly happening for us. I know that's a bit abrupt to say, but it's the only it's the only frame of thinking that has served me any good is that things are happening for us.
00:43:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. as As your podcast grew, like, think about who you were, like you said, and on your knees 10 years ago to you sitting here today.
00:43:20
Speaker
Is it fair to say that you have learned how to expand your capacity? Is that fair to say? In many realms, yes. Yes. So then the question is, how did you do that?
00:43:32
Speaker
How did, how did you, what was the, what, what were some of, you know, whatever, two, three, four, five, whatever it takes to unpack. What were some of the things that you learned how to engage in or not engage in anymore? Let go of, um, that opened up your ability to have a greater capacity to step into that life that you desired.
00:43:52
Speaker
If anybody is still drinking alcohol or binge watching sports for Saturday and Sunday or hanging out with people that complain all the time or hanging out with your five close friends that are doing the opposite of what you want to do, if you choose to continue to engage in those behaviors and people, you will never grow and you will always be limited. And I say that with full truth and conviction.
00:44:18
Speaker
yeah Those are the things, partying, drinking, smoking, addictions, um hanging out with people that have nothing to do with your purpose. This is going to sound a bit harsh. yeah I don't have any friends in my life at all that are in that are in some way not connected to my purpose.
00:44:35
Speaker
I just don't. I have acquaintances. yeah Any friend that I ever spend time with in some way is a fuel source or a support for my purpose.
00:44:47
Speaker
Full stop. and i And I'm the same for them. yeah That's it. And it may seem a bit like harsh, but it's the truth. like If you're asking me, how did I grow my capacity?
00:44:58
Speaker
I cut out the energy of things and people and behaviors that diminished my capacity. There's a term in psychology called arrested development. And in arrested development, we have a significant trauma that happens, and it literally stops our maturity process.
00:45:18
Speaker
And there are many 60, 70, 80 year olds running around that are just children in adult bodies. yeah And it's because they have been so arrested in their own development because of a trauma that created a belief system.
00:45:31
Speaker
That they, A, don't have the understanding of it, or B, they know it and they don't have the courage to face it. And I'm not saying this out of shame because I was that person for a long time, a long time.
00:45:43
Speaker
And probably in ways I still am. i think we all are. We just don't know it. And that's why the journey unfolds and continues. So how do I grow my capacity? Yeah, I do that. And then also I connect with that which created me.
00:45:57
Speaker
I had a big wound with God, I mentioned earlier, where I was very angry at God. Very, very, very angry at God. Literally to the point, Josh, where I have memories of myself looking up at the sky and saying, fuck you, God.
00:46:11
Speaker
Fuck you. And I look back on that as just a lack of awareness. The anger was real. The emotions were real.
00:46:21
Speaker
I didn't know how else to express them. But when i live my life from this day forward, and and really over the past two years, it's it's how it's deepened.
00:46:34
Speaker
God and relationship and children have been the only saving grace for me out of pornography addiction and out of self-decay, period. If I
Inner Work and Self-Love
00:46:45
Speaker
did not have a a woman that I'm learning how to love more, if I did not have children, if I did not have the presence of my creator in my life, that which created me, I find it so funny, Josh, that atheists stand on this hill of like, there's no such thing as God.
00:47:01
Speaker
And I ask them why. And they say, because you can't prove it. And I'm like, well, can you prove there's not? Yeah. It's a false dichotomy. False dichotomy exists where they say, well, God doesn't exist or God does exist. Well, what if there was a third way? False dichotomies ignore the third path. And that is my own learning and understanding of what created me.
00:47:21
Speaker
What if it doesn't have to be there? There is a God or there's not. That's a whole other podcast topic. So that's been the capacity the capacity growth for me, man, is like connecting with God, learning how to love a woman.
00:47:33
Speaker
I didn't grow up with a sister. I grew up with a bipolar mom. It's been a hard learning curve for me of of how to learn how to love a woman properly and learning how to love my children. And most importantly, dude, learning how to love Josh, learning how to love myself.
00:47:48
Speaker
Those are the things that have grown my capacity to be successful in business. Of course, there's like marketing and now AI. and But all that shit doesn't work if the inner game isn't on point.
00:47:59
Speaker
None of the fucking marketing and tactics and growth potential and hacking, none of that stuff means anything. Unless I'm doing the deepest work on loving myself, my woman, my children, and God.
00:48:11
Speaker
that's the That's the key. Without that, nothing nothing lives, nothing breathes. Yeah, I love that. i I used to trigger this shit out of, ah well, my my friends, but also my clients that were Christian, because i said I would say to them, well, you're violating the greatest commandment, which is love the Lord your God with all your soul, men heart, and strength, um and love your neighbor as yourself.
00:48:34
Speaker
right So, hierarchically, it's love, I mean, using that Bible verse, right? Love God, then love you, then out of an overflow, love others. And what I found a lot in the church is that they were they were so willing to give everything to God and so willing to serve to the utmost others while shitting on themselves and completely ignoring the one that's in the middle.
00:49:04
Speaker
This is one of the most harmful things about the church. A church can be a great place. I'm not here to to demonize churches at all. Sure. there can be There can be very conscious churches.
00:49:14
Speaker
Very. But on the whole, blanket statement, all religions, all religions, they're very focused on death and they're very focused on self-sacrifice, not on self-love, not on self-care. Yeah.
00:49:29
Speaker
They're all about connecting and bowing down. Even this phrase where people say, I'm a God-fearing man. Well... That sounds pretty harsh. Can you just say I'm a God respecting man? Right? sure Because anytime, like you said earlier, anytime I'm feeding something that I'm fighting, it just grows stronger.
00:49:48
Speaker
So when I, words words are spells. I went so deep into NLP and i I did a training last year and I'm very conscious of my language. It's funny, man. My team and I just had a meeting before our podcast and we were talking about the power of language.
00:50:02
Speaker
Anytime I'm using words that are self-harming, like I'm in fear of anything, I'm in fear of God, I'm in fear of my life, all I'm doing is I'm putting myself in a lower vibration. I'm putting myself in a space where I am not the arbiter of my own choosing.
00:50:19
Speaker
I am not the arbiter of my results. And so religion has been very harmful. Now it's been very positive. it It helps people find meaning and purpose and it helps people find connection to God.
00:50:29
Speaker
But I do not believe in any way that you have to go to a church to be connected to God. We can both worship and love and be in um holy devotion and union with our creator.
Belief Systems and the Power of Words
00:50:44
Speaker
Right now in this moment on our podcast, you know, outside on the deck, you at the restaurant tonight, whatever. You can be in connection and and in respect and reverence for God.
00:50:56
Speaker
It does not have to be in a church. A lot of these churches have taken the word of God and bastardized it. Look at these mega churches out here in Texas. It's just insane what's going on.
00:51:06
Speaker
So yeah yeah, we can find God wherever we choose, but to delete God is a false dichotomy. because they're arguing that God doesn't exist based on proof, yet they can't prove that God doesn't exist. And I actually have yeah proof.
00:51:22
Speaker
I've always said it takes way more, in my opinion, way more faith to believe that all of this came from nothing than from something. But that's just me. um You just touched on something that I'm really curious to hear your take on, and that is the power of words. And and what I mean by that is
00:51:43
Speaker
i have I've gone through different phases of my life, right? and And one of those phases was being big on mantras and, you know, write the I am's on on my mirror and speak them over myself and, you know, all all of that.
00:51:59
Speaker
And that was really hard for me. And it still sometimes is. i believe that there is... power in words and we should be careful as to how we choose to use them.
00:52:10
Speaker
But what I've found in my own life is that maybe it's that I'm misaligned in some way, but but what I experience is that when i'm when I'm trying to affirm myself, when I'm trying to change that conversation internally,
00:52:28
Speaker
when it's not resonating, it's not just the fake it till you make it, but I'm trying to shift my inner dialogue because I, you know, I'm a former Marine and the standards are always way up here. And I'm an expert at finding the two things that I got wrong and didn't even acknowledge the 98 things that I got right, you know, that kind of stuff.
00:52:47
Speaker
And so learning how to be more graceful or compassionate or loving with my own inner dialogue has been a challenge of mine. And, And so while acknowledging the power of words and the importance of them, what I've experienced from like in ah a visceral emotional standpoint is that when I'm saying, you know, Josh, you're ah whatever, you're a badass cop podcaster and you're a great interviewer and you have a gift for communication.
00:53:19
Speaker
I get instantly bombarded with the antithesis of that. and i And I look at the insufficiencies or I look at my lighting's not right. Or I look at, you know, i and I just, it almost, the the positive opens up an opportunity internally for me to then go down a rabbit hole of nitpicking or um almost pendulum swinging antithesis of that positivity.
Identity and Self-Acceptance
00:53:47
Speaker
um And I'm just curious how, with that understanding, how over time you're able to, one, address that, but then two, shift that in a way that at at the core of who you are changes that internal dialogue. Does that make sense?
00:54:07
Speaker
I believe what I heard from you is that the shining of someone else's light or the perceived shining of someone else's light shines light on what you or someone may perceive as a weakness or um a worthiness or um a lack of skill or a lack of talent. Did I hear you right?
00:54:29
Speaker
Yeah, it but even even just trying to shine shine love and light to myself, right? and And flip the script, per se, to a positive, affirming one, often, more times than not, opens up the negative or the antithesis of that.
00:54:49
Speaker
This is so good. I don't know if I've ever talked about this. This is so good. So... The identity shifting process is not as simple as flicking a light switch from A to B, right? A good coach, a good therapist, a good guide, they get someone from where they are to where they want to be.
00:55:09
Speaker
But in the journey of going from where you are to where you want to be, you meet yourself. And so all the parts that you're speaking about that are you know self-limiting and harsh on yourself and judgmental, there you are.
00:55:25
Speaker
And can we just like give grace for that part of yourself for Christ's sake? Like, yeah, it kept you alive in war. it allowed you to survive, dude. It allowed you to be the man you are now.
00:55:39
Speaker
Yet I and you and all of us are recognizing that this part of us that is so harsh and so hateful and so judgmental, it doesn't fuel us forward in the way that it used to anymore.
00:55:51
Speaker
Is that safe to say? Yeah. Yeah. it It's not a it's not a so fuel substrate that can take us to the level we know is possible anymore. So then the real identity shifting process gets clear on who are you, what are your values, what are you here to do, and why do you want to do it?
00:56:10
Speaker
Those are the biggest questions that I and all of us could ever ask ourselves because at the bottom of those questions is the realness about who we actually are. And then when you answer those questions,
00:56:23
Speaker
then you can declare, this is the direction I'm going. I know the answers to these big questions about myself. Armed with that understanding of who I am, armed with that awareness, I'm ready to meet any challenge that comes my way.
00:56:39
Speaker
But I can't ever meet those challenges wholeheartedly in my identity shifting process unless I create space for these parts of myself that I despise, that I can't stand, that I can't hear from.
00:56:52
Speaker
Because the more I fight them, the more I resist them, the stronger they get. That's what it was in pornography for me. It wasn't about the climax. It wasn't about the feeling.
00:57:05
Speaker
Well, actually it was. It wasn't about the sexual energy. It was about yeah getting that little piece of of peace, that exhale after the climax. That's what ah that's what I and everyone is chasing.
00:57:17
Speaker
Any addict of any kind, they're just chasing the peace because identity, I believe, the power of identity shifting can only happen from a place of peace.
00:57:30
Speaker
Like Hawkins talked about this in Power Versus Force, a very phenomenal book. I'm sure you've read it. Maybe you've talked about it with your men. Not yet. not Not on the podcast. but Okay. Absolutely incredible.
00:57:41
Speaker
So bowwer power is ah um at times a taking energy, right? Look at power in government, power in authority. Look at fucking property taxes, the stupid property taxes, right?
00:57:54
Speaker
Yeah. They're taking by by by, actually, I'm sorry, I said this the wrong way. It's actually force. I wasn't using my words correctly. Force is what they're doing.
00:58:05
Speaker
Power is its opposite. So my mistake there. okay When I take by force, I'm actually forcefully taking something. So the power that's perceived in government and perceived in property taxes isn't actually power. See, that's my own conditioning coming through.
00:58:20
Speaker
Really what they're doing is they're just being forceful. They're forcibly taking my money. They're forcibly controlling me. They're forcibly making people stand six feet apart and decimate their businesses and not go to funerals for people they love because of an imaginary fear.
00:58:36
Speaker
yeah This is force. Power comes from peace. True power comes from peace. That was the point I was driving home there that I misspoke on, but I'm giving myself grace for that moment, right? I don't have to be perfect on your podcast.
00:58:49
Speaker
None of us have to be perfect in the way that we speak as long as we're just being authentic. So yeah power power comes from real peace. How do we cultivate that peace? It's by meeting all these parts of us.
00:59:02
Speaker
that are wanting us to have peace. Otherwise they wouldn't be there giving pain. And it's the, the alchemy and the integration and the embodiment of all of these angry, upset, disappointed, grief stricken parts of us that just want us to be there for them and hear them so that they can rest. I mean, these parts of us are exhausted.
00:59:22
Speaker
They're exhausted. yeah yeahre They're ready to die at any moment. Yeah. But what happens is is we don't embody these parts and then we start taking things from others by force.
00:59:35
Speaker
And that's why I actually changed the name of my podcast in 2022 after our mushroom journey. I changed it from wellness force to wellness and wisdom because I didn't like that word force.
00:59:45
Speaker
I don't like forcefulness. It's not real power. Real power comes from peace. So the identity shifting that you're describing for yourself that I'm going through on a regular basis and that all of us are going through is actually how do we learn how to integrate all of these parts of us that we're at war with so we can be peaceful?
01:00:04
Speaker
Because when we're in peace, we have an unlimited resource of power. And when you have an unlimited resource of power and you know those questions I asked, you know who you are, you can meet any obstacle.
01:00:18
Speaker
When you're clear on who you are and what you want to do and why you're doing it, and you've come to peace with these parts of yourself that have been draining your energy body because of the war, that's when you see real successful people.
01:00:31
Speaker
Those are the most successful people in the world.
Plant Medicine and Transformation
01:00:34
Speaker
So that's how I think you do it.
01:00:37
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that that all makes sense. you You just touched on something that I want to expand on a little bit, and that is you you made you made a ah significant change after working with plant medicine, right to to something in your life.
01:00:51
Speaker
There's it's come on the radar in the last, let's say, five, 10 years, something like that. um Anybody who's listened to my podcast knows. But for you, the very short version went through a divorce, lost my my marriage, was my identity. My God was wrapped up in it. Lost it all, came crumbling down, reached a place of suicide.
01:01:13
Speaker
and basically went, okay, I'm going to try plant medicine. If this doesn't work, I'm out. Like I, that's kind of the super, super, super condensed version. Um, I found a lot of healing in it.
01:01:26
Speaker
Um, I found a lot of challenges in it and now you can have the argument that a bad trip, there's good and a bad trip and what you need to take from it, et cetera. Um, and we can get into that, you know, in this conversation, I,
01:01:40
Speaker
What I'm curious about is just based on your experience. Well, two two things really. One is... um I hear messages that are kind of either or, which is plant medicine is all the rage. It's going to save your life. It's going to heal you. It's going to open up realms and you're never going to be the same.
01:02:00
Speaker
Or you're escaping reality and um you're, I mean, the stereotype if you're going to jump out of a window isn't really there anymore. But you know you're you're essentially running away from your current life and and looking for this escapism.
01:02:17
Speaker
And, and there's not, I mean, I've heard some, but not a lot of the middle ground of there is good in it, but you also need to be aware of these things over here.
01:02:28
Speaker
So I'm curious from your experience, from all that you've done and and worked with plant medicine as a whole, um, one, I guess just first and foremost, what's your opinion of it in the sense of,
01:02:41
Speaker
who should or should not be working with it? Should everyone do it no matter what? Should these people not? If you're obviously seven years old, you shouldn't drink three cups of ayahuasca. But like I'm saying, like, as far as in general, um where are you at with plant medicine for helping facilitate kind of that transformation of identity?
01:03:03
Speaker
So I believe that real transformation happens when you're in an energetic space within yourself that can receive it. So I told you I'd go esoteric, but I'd also make it practical.
01:03:16
Speaker
Sure. Real transformation and healing happens when you're in a space to receive it. Now, what do I mean by that? Because it sounds pretty out there. What I'm really saying on a practical level is If you have garnered the maturity to be able to receive the wisdom of these ancient, master, powerful healing tools that are entheogens, then they're going to give you exactly what you need.
01:03:41
Speaker
But what you need may be the opposite of what you thought you needed or what you wanted. And that's the hard part to recognize about entheogens and plant medicine and you know psychotherapeutics with psychedelics.
01:03:55
Speaker
there's There's some really powerful research that's that's coming more ah really powerful research that's coming more and more and more online. And it is when you are under the treatment of this medicine, it's a medicine, that the hemispheres in your brain can open, that you have neurogenesis and neuroplasticity in ways that neuro neurologists don't even understand.
01:04:17
Speaker
You have massive healing and attunement to parts of you that you've been at war with. But here's the real kicker. You have to be ready to receive the wisdom first.
01:04:29
Speaker
And this is what nobody wants to talk about in the whole plant medicine world. And I went back and forth with Paul Cech on this because, you know, I said that, you know, just like in the dovetail of what Jordan Peterson described of, you know, watch out for plant medicine because you have to be careful of unearned wisdom.
01:04:46
Speaker
And i really I really love that. And then Paul was saying, well, no wisdom no wisdom can be unearned. All wisdom is actually propelling you forward. So I think it's it's your question of the of the dichotomy.
01:05:00
Speaker
And the dichotomy that you're presenting isn't a false dichotomy. I believe there's a third path, though, because i i'm I'm really aware of this in my life in every way now. Whenever I'm proposed with a decision of two,
01:05:13
Speaker
There's always a third, actually. I think all dichotomies are false. I really do. i don't think that plant medicine for everyone. And I also don't think that um it's for no one.
01:05:24
Speaker
I think it's for some. think it's for some. and And when I say the sum, I mean the the sum of the person and the people who have done what Jamie Wheel ah talks about as the hedonic calendaring system.
01:05:40
Speaker
where you've actually prepared yourself six to 12 months for a plant medicine experience. And what it might look like would be um going for walks in nature without a phone, then meditating, then doing breath work, then doing breath work journeys, then doing micro dosing, then doing a float tank, then having...
01:06:01
Speaker
um a holotropic breathing deep dive session. You see how there's this like safe on ramp to get you to just be with yourself? Yeah. aggression And then you go do, you know, a, a macro dose, not a heroic dose, but a macro dose.
01:06:17
Speaker
Then if you really feel called, you can do heroic dose, but it's been like this 18 month process of you getting there. The people that are really victims, I believe of plant medicine are the people that get, um, hijacked.
01:06:32
Speaker
They're in pain. They're suffering. You even said, i was willing to do this or I was going to leave. Yeah. So I would even say that the intention that you came from could have, and thank God it didn't, could have put you severely in harm's way.
01:06:47
Speaker
Severely. Because the lamb with the broken leg gets eaten by the wolf. And when you go into a plant medicine ceremony, look the fuck out. Because you're opening portals and energy systems to capacities of this universe that you have no idea how powerful they are.
01:07:06
Speaker
You have no idea. There can be entities, there can be thought forms, there can be demonic possessions. You can have ah a leader, a shaman, or an ayahuasquero that's practicing black magic. You just simply don't know.
01:07:19
Speaker
So yes, you can do plant medicine, but you need to develop spiritual courage, spiritual maturity before you get there. Because if you get there, you could have something, and I'm speaking from experience, you could have something happen for you like it happened for me, and you might not ever come back.
01:07:37
Speaker
I, on my 12th ayahuasca journey, got so severely psychically cracked that it took me two years to heal my OCD from. I mean, literally, I thought I had lost my mind.
01:07:50
Speaker
I thought I had absolutely lost my mind. Now, there was beautiful healing in that, so it happened for my good. It was part of my healing i around pornography and around loving myself, so I'm very grateful for it.
01:08:01
Speaker
But I might not have made it out because you know what my intention was going into ceremony? please God help me, please God help me, please God help me. This victim vibration that I was bringing into it. And so what did I attract?
01:08:15
Speaker
I, the lamb with the broken leg, praying, praying for help me, help me, help me, I attracted a wolf. And that wolf looked like demonic possession entity that put me into a spiral of OCD that was so severe that it still at times has a fleeting leaf that floats in my driveway.
01:08:33
Speaker
So one has to be incredibly careful and incredibly discerning about what type of maturity you have. If I could look back on myself, I would actually have taken that cup out of my hand on my 12th journey.
01:08:45
Speaker
I don't believe that everything happens for a reason because sometimes the reason that we create is really just our way to make peace with it, but it could have happened in another way as well. So what I'm saying is like, I did not have to suffer and struggle with o OCD for two years like that.
01:09:02
Speaker
it It didn't have to happen exactly that way. I think I could have gotten served a different type of medicine in a safer place. I trusted the people. I over trusted the people. I outsourced my own trust to the people in the space.
01:09:14
Speaker
people can go and have very life-changing experiences. People can also go and be so shattered that they never come back. They literally are lost. People that will just lose their fucking minds.
01:09:26
Speaker
So with plant medicine, don't go as often. Don't stay as long. Make sure you have developed spiritual courage and maturity to get there and start with a smaller dose Work your way up safely.
01:09:38
Speaker
Trust yourself. Do your intuition work to make sure that you can trust the space, trust the person. And if you ever get a somatic no, immediately remove yourself from that space. do not yeah Do not barter with yourself.
01:09:51
Speaker
Do not try to convince yourself that you should do it because your friends are doing it. Look out because dark energy exists in these spaces just like light. And there are actually shamans that go and people have died.
01:10:03
Speaker
People have lost. People have actually physically died in these ceremonies. It happens all the time in Peru because these dark shamans capture people. So be careful, be mindful, love yourself and do the work to prepare yourself to have the the courage to actually earn the wisdom and not get shattered like I was.
01:10:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. and And I mean, just to echo what you shared, um as far as trusting your intuition and taking it slow, I think it sounds like you and i finding that third path, I tend to be an all or nothing personality a little bit.
01:10:39
Speaker
And so the journey of finding a third path for a lot of things is is that journey for me. But with the plant medicine, just kind of diving in, um it was a third night in a row that I had i was doing ayahuasca.
01:10:52
Speaker
And i was sitting there with the cup and I was like, I should not do this. And I threw it back. The moment I did, i i literally said I made a mistake. And, ah the shaman was a very good shaman. They had, they had a good structure as far as the spiritual side of things, but i ended up leaving the ceremony.
01:11:13
Speaker
And as real as you and I, if we were sitting in person, there were these dragons that were coming out of the woods at me. And i I broke, you know, I, i like emotionally broke to the point where they had to carry me back in and And in that moment, i I cried out to Jesus. I didn't know what else to do.
01:11:35
Speaker
And I instantly felt this peace. And so there was this good that, like you said, kind of like with your porn addiction, there was good that came from it. But one, I did not trust my intuition because I was like, nope, I've signed up for three nights. I'm at this desperate place. I'm going to kill myself if I don't find a solution.
01:11:52
Speaker
i have to keep pressing in. You know, ra I'm a Marine, whatever. Was it in Costa Rica? No, it was in Texas. Okay. Got it Yeah, it was in Texas. And um I mean, the the gentleman, he's been to Costa Rica, Peru, been serving for 30 years. Like, I trust the man that was serving it.
01:12:10
Speaker
um i I put that pressure on myself. No one else did at all. And So I think your word of caution and I love i love your example of the progression because I've I even had clients that i've worked with over the years where I give them homework of just sitting by themselves in nature, not praying, not journaling, not listening to music, just be with yourself for five minutes.
01:12:34
Speaker
And sometimes that spikes their anxiety more than anything else I give them. And so just learning that progression to essentially it's ah it's a muscle, right? And and not letting that, you you think if you have a muscle that's atrophy and then you go to the gym and lift a hundred pounds, you're going to have problems or you have the potential for problems.
01:12:53
Speaker
um And learning how to strengthen that over time is I think a really, really, really good, good take on on the way to approach it with wisdom. um how have you seen How have you seen plant medicine for those that do it in a healthy way?
01:13:07
Speaker
How have you seen plant medicine... um be a bridge for the transition. And even like, ill I'll just use one example for me with microdosing.
01:13:20
Speaker
I've struggled with depression, was on a whole bunch of medications um through the VA. And because I was going to sit with ayahuasca, I started to microdose, which got me off. I used that to get me off of my medications.
01:13:31
Speaker
And, you know, um there was a lot of good that came from that. Haven't been on it for the last four years now. um But For me, microdosing, the best way I can describe it is if life is a road.
01:13:46
Speaker
my When I was deep in depression, it was like I was laying down in a muddy ditch and I just couldn't get up. And antidepressants helped me crawl out of the ditch and sit on the side of the road, but I didn't really feel much.
01:14:00
Speaker
i didn't I didn't feel great. I didn't feel low. i was just kind of there, you know. And microdosing psilocybin allowed me to stand up and see, holy shit, there's a road.
01:14:11
Speaker
I could walk on this road. Now, I still had to choose to walk down the road, like make certain decisions throughout my life. to But I have found that plant medicine kind of helped me bridge that gap to see the possibilities.
01:14:26
Speaker
um And I'm just curious, what be it ah you know ayahuasca, microdosing, working with um peyote, whatever it may be, um How have you seen or have you seen it be able to help people facilitate that transition if it's done in a healthy way?
01:14:44
Speaker
I think this is another example of the yes and of of the third path, because... there are people that may think microdosing is silly and those are probably the people that would actually benefit from it the most. And then there are, and then there are people like you said that, um, you know, they're, they're doing a bunch of ceremonies and they're, they're constantly going to the medicine or using the medicine in an unhealthy way. And then I think there's this third path where the psychedelics become a bridge, but they also call in a surgeon.
01:15:17
Speaker
And the surgeon could be a self-surgeon or it could be a a really trusted, guided surgeon facilitator. Because really what's going on is psychic surgery. If you want to get down to brass tacks. yeah Psychic surgery exists when you're going into someone's psyche where the traditional veil that blocks the hemispheres, that blocks neurogenesis, that blocks the the blooming of new thought forms,
01:15:44
Speaker
has been turned off for a moment. It's almost like if a washing machine was spinning forever, psychedelics can just be like a pause where the washing machine can stop for a moment. And you can actually look in there and see and see the clothing.
01:15:57
Speaker
And so you need someone that's very skilled to go in there and start picking out the parts or picking out the beliefs or picking out the clothing and being able to intuitively show it to the participant and say,
01:16:12
Speaker
What's the price that this has been costing you in your life? And what's the reward that you're getting for holding onto it? And we all know the answer to that. The price I've been paying is my peace. The price I've been paying is my health. The price I've been paying is all these things.
01:16:28
Speaker
The reward that I'm getting from holding onto that piece of clothing is that I get to be safe. I get to be perfect. I get i get to be self-righteous. i get to be It's typically I get to be right.
01:16:40
Speaker
I get to be right ah about me putting on this jacket and this jacket protects me from anything other than my belief system about why the trauma happened. That that person was just a person and they themselves were wounded.
01:16:55
Speaker
and We're just, where we we put on these clothings from the washing machine of our psyche and we wear them because we are afraid of what might happen if we took off all our clothes. But beneath all of our clothes right now, we're completely naked.
01:17:09
Speaker
We're still who we are without any clothing. And so somebody has to be a really good surgeon, really good facilitator, or you can train yourself over five, seven, 10 years to be that for yourself.
01:17:22
Speaker
But I find that it's very hard to be a self surgeon, like 99% of people can't do it. And I'm not that great at it either. Although I'm interested in getting better. Mm-hmm. Because in order to in order to come and be outside of your self-perception, you have to be witnessed and be seen by someone one else.
01:17:40
Speaker
Otherwise, you're trying to see yourself while you see yourself from the outside at the same time, which isn't really possible unless you're inherently acceleratedly good at doing this deep work.
01:17:52
Speaker
yeah So I think, yes, psychedelics are a bridge. they They may get people out of the ditch. They get them on the road. But the very thing that got us in the ditch... is most likely a trauma or traumas that created yeah belief and even epigenerational trauma that that put us in the ditch in the first place.
01:18:11
Speaker
And so when we love ourselves enough, when we connect with God and when we love ourselves enough to to get out of the ditch and get back on the road, We actually get to call forth someone that can do psychic surgery with us and that can look in the washing machine that the psychedelics have paused and to start pulling out these pieces of clothing and actually showing them to the participant and saying, do you want to wear this anymore?
01:18:34
Speaker
like This is actually what's been protecting you from feeling the shit that you didn't want to feel. Do you want to just let this go right now? Can I help you let this go? And then we take off the jacket, we throw it down, we we're shirtless, we're naked, we're screaming, and then we leave the peak experience.
01:18:50
Speaker
And then we go back to life. And all of a sudden, the washing machine starts spinning again. And we can't really see the clothes that are in there anymore. Maybe that jacket's still in there, maybe it's not.
01:19:02
Speaker
And so I think having a ah quarterly or definitely twice a year check of what's in the washing machine is a good thing. Because otherwise, when that spin cycle is done, we're just going to grab the clothes and put them on and we're just going to continue on and on. That's why people go to Tony Robbins and that's why people go to 100 ayahuasca ceremonies and they're still a fucking asshole.
01:19:23
Speaker
Yeah. Sure. Because they haven't they haven't had the right surgeon they haven't had the right surgeon connected to God to really get real with them and say, do you do you really want to wear this anymore?
01:19:35
Speaker
What's the price you're paying and what's the reward you're getting? These are the types of questions that are that are very much sacred and they need to be held with such reverence and respect. And I personally don't believe that they can happen in very, very large groups.
01:19:50
Speaker
I don't. I think that entheogenics are meant to be with couples, with a facilitator or a therapist, or in very, very small groups.
01:20:02
Speaker
Because when you're in the room with these people, all of their purging and their energies are flying around the room. They could attach to you in a moment of weakness. And it's just not a safe space, in my opinion, these super large groups.
01:20:16
Speaker
So there's so much more there, man. We could we could probably go on like for a whole podcast on that, but that's that's how I see it. the The bridge of psychedelics calls forth the surgeon that can do this the spiritual surgery that is necessary for the person to heal themselves.
01:20:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Okay.
01:20:35
Speaker
Pivoting a little bit, um you know you've you you said, you've is it over 700 episodes that you have? Yes, yes. Jeez, that's crazy.
01:20:46
Speaker
um
Insights from Podcasting and Emotional Growth
01:20:48
Speaker
Here's what I'm curious about is over 700 episodes. what are What are two or three things from all the guests that you've talked to for men specifically, right? that's what This podcast is really geared towards. what are What are two or three things that are either not being talked about? I mean, obviously, if it was on your podcast, it's being talked about. But not being talked about enough, or you know you could say like psychedelics has come on the radar, and so there's a lot of attention there.
01:21:22
Speaker
What are two or three things that are not getting the adequate attention that should be talked about, addressed, or put into the zeitgeist of of um men's awareness to help them learn how to ground and thrive in this chaotic life that we live?
01:21:43
Speaker
The first thing that comes to mind is a hyper focus on tactic and strategy and how to when it comes to men's work and healing. What do you mean by that?
01:21:55
Speaker
Well, although that's important, right? It's good to have maps because then you know where you're going. You know how to get there. It's good to have guides. It's good to have strategy. It's it's good to have science is what I'm saying.
01:22:07
Speaker
But the the emotional and spiritual component of men's work and of just human beings, women too, healing, is actually on the spiritual and emotional side because that's where all of these stuck energies, behavioral patterns, and beliefs live.
01:22:23
Speaker
Like behavioral patterns and beliefs don't just exist purely in the mind. It's just not real. If you look at the work of somatic intelligence of Bessel van der Kolk, if you look at constellation therapy from Mark Wolin, if you look at parts work from Schwartz, none of these things are just purely focused on the mind.
01:22:42
Speaker
They are all essentially focused on the the client or the patient going into their body And this is the part that I think needs the most attention.
01:22:53
Speaker
We put so much focus on the mind and the results and the map and the guide, and we don't put enough attention. what gets to And I think it's growing. I know it's growing because I see it all the time.
01:23:04
Speaker
And that's been a common thread with all of my guests. They started out intellectually healing themselves. And then the only way they were actually able to heal was by going into their somatics, their emotions, and their spiritual connection.
01:23:18
Speaker
yeah That's it. That's really it. The physical and the mental are important, but so is the spiritual and so is the emotional. And so this concept of emotional epigenetics that I've been working on that I think I could really do for my whole life. I could just go deep into this work forever, man.
01:23:35
Speaker
The way I see it is that emotional epigenetics, it's this true peace and power that we can live from. And it's free from the psychosomatic harm, the pain from our lineage, by connecting intelligently to our vitality at a deeper level.
01:23:48
Speaker
That's essentially what I'm saying. And I think we do that by biochemical, emotional, and spiritual nourishing practices. Because anybody can do an identity shift, but they have to get out of the frame of genetic determinism in order for that to be a lifestyle-driven vitality.
01:24:04
Speaker
It has to be real for them is what I'm saying. So I think that that's number one, emotional epigenetics, which maybe we can do another podcast on that. Yeah, I would love to. number Number two, it's really getting clear on on the questions that I asked earlier. All of the people that I've ever interviewed, they got super clear on who am i what is my purpose, how am I here to serve, and why am I here to do it?
01:24:29
Speaker
answering those big questions are so important because a purpose-driven life is a life where you you can't be fucked with. You can't be monetized. You can't be hijacked. You're so on point and so on purpose and so full of vitality.
01:24:41
Speaker
You've done the emotional epigenetic work. to heal. You've done the purpose-driven work to heal. Because by the way, whenever we chase our purpose, we meet ourselves in doing so. And so those are two. Number three, honestly, I would say to stop taking this life so damn seriously. I and we i take life so seriously. Those are my three
Living Authentically and Conclusion
01:24:59
Speaker
things, man.
01:25:00
Speaker
If I could do one thing for myself for the rest of my life, it would be yeah practicing those three things that I just shared with you. I literally, before our recording, because i I was feeling a little nervous about the conversation, just to be honest with you. And I literally stood in front of the mirror and I was like, Josh, just have fun.
01:25:19
Speaker
Just have fun. Just have fun. Just calm down. have fun. know. And isn't it cool you're talking to another Josh and we're just having fun? Yeah. so good, man. Yeah. Listen, i I feel like we could talk for the next two and a half hours, but um I do want to wrap it up, just at least for this episode. i Obviously, I would love to have you back on to dig deeper on a couple of these rabbit trails we could go down.
01:25:42
Speaker
I always ask guests one question, which I'm just curious about. um So a final question. There's a billboard. One billion people see it. What does it say?
01:25:58
Speaker
Is the context about healing? that It's whatever you would put on it.
01:26:08
Speaker
Do the work to live authentically well and forget. Hold on, baby. I'm almost done. My son is like literally in the studio. Yeah. Do the work to live authentically well.
01:26:19
Speaker
Do the work to live authentically well and forget about having to suffer and work so hard to live someone else's life. Hmm.
01:26:30
Speaker
I love it, man. I love it. Well, hey, thank you so much for taking the time, carving it out. Like I said, it took a little while to make it happen, but but let's ah plan on not waiting another year to to lock in our next time.
01:26:45
Speaker
Yes. All right. Thank you, man. All right. Thanks lot. Bye.