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The Big Picture of UPG Engagement
144 Plays1 year ago
In the first episode of Season 2 of the "Let's Talk Diaspora" podcast, hosts Rebecca and Bud explore the theme of "The Uncomfortable Middle" in mission strategy within diaspora communities. They break down the various phases of this strategy: Calling, Sending, Preparation, Connecting, Sharing, Evangelism, Discipleship, Church Planting, and Leadership Development. Each phase is accompanied by tensions and dilemmas that arise in the context of diaspora missions.
The hosts emphasize the importance of understanding the biblical pattern of apostolic workers, who are sent out with a clear purpose. They discuss the tension surrounding the concept of "calling," highlighting the need to affirm the role of the Holy Spirit in the process and the role of the church in confirming the calling. They also address the significance of corporate prayer in churches and the challenges posed by a lack of engagement in prayer.
The podcast delves into tensions related to connecting with people from diverse cultures, including debates on contextualization, language acquisition, and the use of signs and wonders. The hosts stress the necessity of sharing the gospel with words and actions, addressing the common misconception that actions alone are sufficient to convey the message of Christ.
As the hosts transition to the phases of discipleship, church planting, and leadership development, they underscore the vital role of developing leaders within the community and the importance of balancing character and competency in leadership. The episode concludes with a recap of the phases discussed and a preview of the season ahead, promising further exploration of these tensions within diaspora missions.
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Transcript
Exploring Diaspora Missions
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Let's Talk Diaspora podcast. You're listening to season two. In season two, we're looking at the engagement strategy and calling season two the uncomfortable middle and mission strategy. Because we know that in the complex landscape of diaspora missions, we often find ourselves grappling with two opposing ideologies, searching for that balanced approach. And I believe it's this uncomfortable middle that we discover the path that moves us forward.
00:00:32
Speaker
And throughout this podcast season, we're going to explore the tensions and dilemmas faced in diaspora missions, inviting us honest conversations about critical topics that demand our attention.
Biblical Patterns for Apostolic Workers
00:00:47
Speaker
So today we're kicking off by looking at the big picture. The big picture will be the outline we followed this season. So today we're setting the stage for the conversation that will unfold in the coming weeks.
Roles: Apostolic Worker vs. Missionary
00:01:00
Speaker
Yeah. So,
00:01:01
Speaker
Welcome and we're so excited that you're joining us. Our goal today is that you see the biblical pattern of activities that the apostolic worker does. You know, the Bible actually tells us the activities the missionary is to be doing. So we're going to start by laying out this faithful pattern of the apostolic worker. And then for each phase, we'll pull out some of the controversy or opposing views that Christians hold.
00:01:29
Speaker
And then those discussions are going to be continued in further episodes. Just like I had to learn how to say diaspora, I'm also having to learn how to say apostolic. Bud, what is an apostolic worker?
00:01:46
Speaker
That is a great question. And that's even maybe a tension that we get to before we even start. So traditionally, especially in the West, we call people who do things like what we're talking about doing missionaries. And I really don't have any issue with someone being called a missionary. The problem becomes that missionary is not in the Bible. And then when we try to define what a missionary does or who a missionary is,
00:02:14
Speaker
it can be anything right so if there's no absolute truth that we can go to then we're like can be blown in the wind like Paul says like so what is an apostolic worker so apostolic is coming from actual Greek word that's in the Bible apostolos
00:02:35
Speaker
And that is just basically a sent out one. Now some of the tension that comes into this is like, well, but are you saying that someone is an apostle, like a big A apostle? No. Because in the scripture you have the category of the apostles, the 12, but then you have others who are not the 12 who get that same designation of apostolus.
00:03:03
Speaker
So I want to submit that when we talk about the missionary task that we would say it's not the missionary task. It's the apostolic task. It's not the missionary worker. It's the apostolic worker, because then we're using a biblical word, which means we can derive a biblical definition and it's not. People can call themselves an apostolic worker without any anything behind it. Does that make sense, Rebecca? Why I even chose that word?
00:03:30
Speaker
I think it's a great word because I know that missionary word for me causes all kinds of tensions and it puts all kinds of things in people's minds. So I love having this word that is very biblical and gets us back to the root of where the sent out one. But what does it mean to be the sent out one or be sent out?
00:03:55
Speaker
Well, that's what we're going to look at. Basically, this whole episode is what is the role of a sent out one? What is the process or what is the work of the sent out one or the apostolic worker? And so what I want to do in our episode is like use just scripture passages to guide us through what is a sent out one.
Foundational Steps: Acts 13 and 14
00:04:18
Speaker
Now, there's multiple places in the scripture we could do this, but I think the most concise and clear place that we can do it
00:04:24
Speaker
is from Acts 13 and 14. This is Paul's first missionary journey. So this is going to kind of be our framework for the big picture. So the framework for the big picture starts in Acts 13, and we can call these phases or steps. I don't know that I have a good word for it, but where it all starts is with prayer and fasting.
00:04:50
Speaker
then calling and sending. So Acts 13 you know Paul and Barnabas are in the church at Antioch and it says while they were worshiping the Lord and fasting the Holy Spirit said set apart from me Barnabas and Saul for the work which I have called them. Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off. So being sent out by the Holy Spirit
00:05:15
Speaker
That is where we get this prayer is foundational. That's at the very beginning. You have this calling, then you have this sending. All right there. And there's just a couple of verses at the very beginning of Acts 13. That is the first phase. Now, Rebecca, is there any controversy that could come from these
The Mystical Nature of 'Calling'
00:05:37
Speaker
categories? Because this is what we want to press into is like, if there's not
00:05:42
Speaker
Tension let's not talk about it if we're just all in agreement But I I'm going to venture to say everything that we could potentially talk about within Christedom There's going to be people who will disagree. What are some of the things people might disagree with?
00:05:54
Speaker
Well, I know one of the first things that I hear people talk about is that calling word. And we kind of make it this mystical type thing, meaning that we over spiritualize and over elevate the idea of the calling. Like God has called me to quit pastoring, someone might say, this church and go to this church in a nicer city with more pay and freedom. Or God has called me to be a missionary to Hawaii.
00:06:24
Speaker
So we've made it this big myth, but we never call out our question people who pull out that calling card. Yeah. Wow. That's a good word. Calling card. I've heard, and I truly want to think the best of people, but it's like I very, very rarely hear anyone saying,
00:06:47
Speaker
Uh, pulling the calling card and saying the Lord is calling me from this mega church that pays me really well and lets me have six weeks of vacation to go be a Bible occasional pastor in a small city in Louisiana. I've never heard that. It's always the complete opposite. And I'm not saying the Lord doesn't do that. But to your point, Rebecca, like I very rarely hear someone question that's like, Oh, well, the Lord called them.
00:07:16
Speaker
And I think mystification is is a good word. So even in this Acts passage, we have to think about like who who did the calling, who did the sending and then what was the role of the church? Because sometimes the pastor or the missionary who's saying the Lord's calling me to do this, they're not letting the church speak into it would be like one example. The other flip side would be the church has too much control.
00:07:45
Speaker
So Rebecca, what do you think the role of the church is in prayer? This is like just beginning the process, calling and sending. Well, I mean, first, as I look at this passage, I hear that the Holy Spirit is the one that's speaking into the people's lives. So it's really the Holy Spirit that's calling and sending. But then the church, I feel like the church's role is to really come alongside of a firm and take them forward.
00:08:17
Speaker
I think that's a good word, affirming. The church affirms the Holy Spirit's calling. And it's difficult to do that when churches aren't corporately praying. And I think even that idea may be a little controversial because in our churches today, you know, there's so much emphasis put on Sunday morning.
00:08:42
Speaker
And, you know, a lot of churches' prayer is transitional in their worship set. Meaning, OK, we need someone to exit the stage, and so someone's going to pray so they can exit the stage. Transitional prayer. I know that there are good, faithful churches who do corporate prayer well, but I would venture to say that maybe the majority, maybe majority is an accurate word. The majority of our churches
00:09:11
Speaker
aren't really engaging very well in corporate prayer? I think the majority is a great word because I agree with you, bud. We can learn a lot about that corporate prayer. Even as we talk about our next episode of prayer, I think that talking a little more about that corporate prayer and what that means would be a great piece of our conversation.
00:09:35
Speaker
Yeah, so let's maybe leave this one to the next episode. We're just introducing this. But again, there's a tension in how much corporate prayer is part of a church, because we see pastors saying we want to send missionaries. Well, what is the example from scripture? It's praying and fasting together. Then we hear the Holy Spirit speak together, calling people out to the work that the Holy Spirit called them to. And maybe that's a good place
00:10:04
Speaker
to transition is on that word work.
Defining the Apostolic Task
00:10:09
Speaker
Because another part of calling and sending is like defining
00:10:16
Speaker
This is kind of hard to maybe explain defining the goal. What's the vision? What's a win? What is the work God is calling you to do? Because I don't think the Lord calls people into vagueness because vagueness is unclear. Vagueness typically creates confusion and we don't serve a God of confusion. So in Acts 13 and 14, you have these bookends of
00:10:44
Speaker
this word work. Saul and Barnabas are set apart to the work to which I've called them, says the Holy Spirit in verse 2 of 13. And then at the other end in 1426, there was a specific work that they accomplished.
00:11:04
Speaker
So we have to define what is that work and that's what we're going to do going through this. But I think a part of calling and sending is defining what, what is a win? What is the vision? What is the goal? What is the work God is calling you to do?
Cultural Access in Missions
00:11:22
Speaker
Do you think there's any tension in, in that, like saying that we have a goal. Is that wrong?
00:11:32
Speaker
Don't think it's wrong because as you talk about that it makes me think about the relationship aspect of this whole Piece this whole that myth mystical word calling There is that relational piece and I think God speaks very clearly and gives us direction And it isn't vague because it is such a relational piece and all about him so but there is a lot of tension there because a lot of people even with just
00:12:02
Speaker
Should we focus on one specific people group or should we be out for all of the different people groups? That's just that broad under, you know, this broad group is another tension. Yeah, because, you know, ultimately, if if you do have a focus, that means you prayerfully had this idea of prioritization, which included research.
00:12:28
Speaker
And that is attention. You have people who say, like, God loves all the people, so we need to reach all the people. And I would say, yes, yes, and amen. But God didn't call you to reach all the people. He has called the church and each church has a specific assignment and the sent out ones from those churches have a specific assignment. And that is the work. And so sometimes how I like to help people define
00:12:53
Speaker
the work that they're called to. And again, I help them hear from the Holy Spirit because it's the Holy Spirit who calls them to the work is who are the people? Where are they at? And to what extent do you want to see their lives transformed? So, you know, example would be, uh, Sarani speaking Kurds in Nashville, healthy indigenous reproducing churches. That's the who, the where, and the to what extent or what is a win. And that's, that creates tension for people. So,
00:13:23
Speaker
We've talked a little bit about that in the past. It's going to continue to be a point of contention and conversation. But after we have seen Paul and Barnabas be in prayer, get calling, sending, then they set out. And what do they do? They set out to connect with people. So.
00:13:46
Speaker
This is also a point of contention in a lot of mission circles. How do we connect with people? Rebecca, from Acts 13 and 14, is there any examples of Paul and Barnabas connecting with people? And did they do it the same way every time? Did they do it differently? Are there any principles there?
00:14:03
Speaker
Well, I see in Acts 13 and 14, they first went into the synagogue. So they were first connecting with the Jews and the people from, they had the biggest relationship with. But then you see a lame man come into the story in chapter 14 and they're connecting with him and his needs. So, and what are some other things that you see in these two?
00:14:33
Speaker
Yeah, I think just in Acts 13 and 14, you see Paul and Barnabas, where there is a synagogue, they go to the synagogue. In Lystra is where they find the lame man, which most people would say there wasn't a synagogue there, that's why it's the shift. You also see in the words that are spoken, so like the next phase is evangelism, so we'll get there, but you see the words that are spoken.
00:14:55
Speaker
You see that they're not it's not in a Jewish contextual way. So it's like, OK, this lame man was actually an idol worshipper in a sense. But really, when we think about connecting with people, what we have to think about is access options like how can I best connect?
00:15:15
Speaker
Um, if there's a synagogue, that's where they went first. And then you see in some of those places, they shipped it and they said, it came to you first, uh, the Jewish community, but now we're turning to the Gentiles and the Gentiles then celebrate. So, but it's about access in Lystra. There wasn't a synagogue to go to, but what we also see, and this becomes a tension of, um, you know, some people are going to be more inclined to talk about signs and wonders.
00:15:46
Speaker
Other people are going to be more inclined to be cessationist, which basically is a thought that the sign gifts are no longer active. And then in this too, you have the tension between some people saying, oh, you have to acquire language and culture to reach a people. And then other people saying, no, don't learn language and culture. So you have all of these tensions with connecting with people.
00:16:14
Speaker
And I think those are two ditches and the way forward again is this uncomfortable middle where really you're asking the question, what is it going to take to connect with these people in a meaningful way so that I can share the gospel with them? And so that depends on the focus people that you're wanting to engage. So now I've kind of given away my stance and like, yeah, I think you do need to have some focus.
00:16:40
Speaker
And the reason why is that's going to inform how you connect with people. So Rebecca, maybe what are two different types of people segments broadly where you may want to take a different approach strategically in connecting with them?
Contextualizing the Gospel
00:16:56
Speaker
Well, I think, um, even here in North America, we have our brothers and sisters are those that are very similar to us that many people feel, well, that that's who I'm called to, to reach those that are very much like me here around me. But then, but then we've got those that are very different from us as well. So I feel like there's a tension between why I'm called to reach those like me or those different from me.
00:17:28
Speaker
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00:17:44
Speaker
and to meet Harati men and women as well as the believers who serve them and to join us in the critical work of prayerful intercession. Start learning and praying with us today with a free digital download or you can request a free copy at upgnorthamerica.com forward slash resources. There's a tension between why I'm called to reach those like me or those different from me. Yeah, even thinking about like and different thinking about language
00:18:13
Speaker
You know one of the one of the things is is like there are people who say no you don't need to learn language Well, it depends on who your focus people are even in the diaspora. Let's say you're focused on high caste Indian Hindi speaking Hindus and Their second and third generation and their English is perfect. They study in the university in English. I Would say well, maybe you learning language is less of a priority. I
00:18:42
Speaker
But if you're working with a first generation refugee that doesn't speak English or they're just learning English, it's like, yeah, I really think language and culture acquisition is really important. But I had a friend from Nepal say this to me recently. He said, he said, the strategy is in the harvest field. He said, we get it wrong when we go to the harvest field with our strategy, meaning we have to learn from the people we're trying to reach.
00:19:10
Speaker
So we connect with them. What's the next phase or next step after we connect with them, Rebecca? Well, the next step is sharing Jesus with them. And we've got to use those words and we've got to use those appropriate ways to share Jesus with them. I love how Paul does that, even as he is sharing with the Jews and those, the Gentiles, he has different words and different ways that he presents the gospel, but it's presenting that gospel and sharing the good news.
00:19:41
Speaker
Yeah, so if we connect with people from other cultures or even our own culture, but we never get to the gospel, we never share the gospel, the life, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus in a meaningful way that they can understand it, we are not completing. We're not actually doing the apostolic work because that's what we clearly see from the scripture. Like this is a non-negotiable and fulfilling the Great Commission.
00:20:04
Speaker
You know, sometimes you hear of something that is attributed to, I think it's attributed to Francis of Assisi. And I don't know that he actually said it. Most people say he didn't say it. Someone said, share the gospel always when necessary, use words. And like, that is absolutely unbiblical. Like, that is totally wrong. I understand the idea of like, yes, you want to live a godly life.
00:20:32
Speaker
But it's when we think of Jesus' ministry, it's word and deed. At the beginning of Acts, Luke says, oh, Theophilus, I wrote to you in my previous book, you know, the gospel of Luke, all that Jesus did and said, his his words and deeds. And so that, too, is the role of the apostolic worker. We see that when Paul connected, yes, he healed people, he casted out demons. We see Jesus did the same thing, but they also proclaimed the kingdom. It's like it's a non-negotiable.
00:21:03
Speaker
And to your point, they did it in different ways, in different audiences, in different places, in different times. But we can't get beyond sharing the gospel. And it can't go without saying that you have to hear the gospel. Well, in Scripture, it tells us how will they know until someone tells them.
Discipleship and Church Planting
00:21:23
Speaker
So that's really the biblical piece. It's not just through our actions, but also through our words.
00:21:30
Speaker
So we do have some tension around evangelism. I think we could do a whole season on evangelism. So some of the tensions I see is around contextualization. Some people would say, no, you can't use this bridge or that bridge for Muslims. You can't use the Quran as a bridge to get them to read the Bible. You just share the gospel and that's it.
00:21:54
Speaker
And then the other side is, is it really good news if they don't understand it? And then you have this whole idea of language. Am I communicating it to them and maybe a trade language that's not the language that they love their family in. And then it becomes of all of these things about we can't know every language that it comes back to. Maybe we do need to have a focus segment.
00:22:17
Speaker
Or we have to have access to a lot of good resources that were really I can't share the gospel with them. The best I can do is give them a resource. What are some maybe some other tensions that we see in evangelism, Rebecca?
00:22:32
Speaker
Well, I think that the use of signs, the gifts of healing and praying for healing, that's another tension that we see versus just denying that existence of sign gifts today. I think we've already said, but I'll say again, the social justice and the proclamation ministry, not again, one or the other, but both and.
00:23:01
Speaker
So we're gonna unpack all of these in this season. I think one thing that has crippled the church in North America is their lack of gospel boldness. And for some reason the enemy has told us this lie and you hear it repeated over and over and over again and people will like, you know, applaud them and be like, yes, yes and amen.
00:23:29
Speaker
They say things like, well, I have to earn the right to share the gospel with them. And I'm like, no, you don't have to earn the right. Jesus purchased the right on the cross for you to share the gospel with them. They are dead in their sins and trespasses. And Christ said, I died for them. But they have to hear it in a way that is good news to them because
00:23:54
Speaker
even without even getting to like the depth of worldviews, like something as simple as most people listening to this are going to be a guilt, innocence worldview, irregardless of religion. Other parts of the world are going to be like honor and shame. And the gospel is multifaceted. There's a great book called The 3D Gospel that talks about how the good news is communicated to people from different views. Because when we think about the fall, just in the Garden of Eden, it said that they felt shame.
00:24:22
Speaker
And they were also guilty, right? But which one do we press into when we communicate?
00:24:28
Speaker
We've talked about calling, sending and preparation. We've talked about connecting with them. We've talked about evangelism. But what's the next piece of these phases that we go through in the big picture? In the Great Commission, Jesus said, go make disciples, not converts, not decisions, but disciples. So then we have to move on and say a part of this process has to be discipleship.
00:24:55
Speaker
So after Paul and Barnabas shared the gospel, what did they do? They discipled them. Two places that we see this in Acts 13 and 14, Acts 13, 43, there are believers and it says they urged them to continue in the grace of God. Towards the end of Acts 14, verses 21 and 22, they're going back to where they had proclaimed the gospel. It says they strengthen the disciples and encourage them.
00:25:21
Speaker
And then two, I think that's a very narrow view of discipleship. There's other places in Acts 13 and 14 where they're being persecuted and Paul and Barnabas is just modeling being a faithful disciple. I think in our Western mind, Rebecca, we view discipleship as a program, as a curriculum.
00:25:38
Speaker
But really, it's it's helping people become more like Jesus. And a big part of that is modeling a life of following Jesus and prayer and connecting with people and sharing the gospel and persevering and persecution and resisting sin and and doing all of those things. That's part of discipleship. That's what we see Paul doing. And it's indispensable to the task and the work of an apostolic worker.
00:26:08
Speaker
And I hear you say that it's more of a life thing. It's not, I just go to church on Sunday or I go to church on Wednesday, but it's a life thing that we're living day by day, day by day, that discipleship. But you know, there's another tension that comes up and it kind of takes us into that next phase as well, because there's a tension with discipleship and then the next phase of church planting, bud. So why don't you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, that's a great,
00:26:37
Speaker
Great point. When we think of moving from discipleship to church planting, because I think everyone will say, yes, there's a huge significance in discipleship. I don't think anyone gets upset about that. How we do it, there's some tension. I think the tension really becomes moving from discipleship to church planting. But we have to look at the scripture and say, remember, Paul and Barnabas was called to the work. Those are the sent out ones. What are the sent out ones do?
00:27:06
Speaker
We have to ask the question, what did Paul call these groups of disciples? Acts 14, 23, he calls them churches. And there's tons of tension around ecclesiology. And if you don't know what ecclesiology means, that's just like the theology of church, theology of the gathering, the ecclesia. And there are so many tensions around
00:27:33
Speaker
like house church or simple church versus prevailing or model or legacy church. There's so much tension related around the definition of church. In my opinion, I would define that as what is biblical and what is extra biblical. You see denomination split around ecclesiology through the ordinances, like what is baptism? What is the Lord's Supper? Who can do it? Who can't do it?
00:28:00
Speaker
contextualization of worship. Can can Hindu followers of Jesus worship in a way that looks very Hindu or do they have to have a pastor who stands up front and everyone stand up and do all of these things that we see in the Western Church, which I will tell you in India, politicians stand behind pulpits and Indians say you can't trust the politicians. So it actually would be not good to do that in a South Asian context.
00:28:26
Speaker
Language of worship becomes attention. And then probably one of the most tense things I've seen of late, especially in my circles, Rebecca, is this idea of like multi-ethnic, multi-race churches versus homogenous unit churches. We use that term homogenous unit in season one, but basically that's people who look like you, think like you, talk like you, we are we, they are they sort of thinking.
00:28:53
Speaker
There's a lot of tensions related around what is church and what is church planting in the apostolic task, and then it becomes even more convoluted in the diaspora because you do have people who are generation 1.5. Why don't they just come to my American church? And I think the answer lies in this uncomfortable middle, and we have to come back to what is the best thing to reach my focus segment. You're right, bud.
00:29:19
Speaker
again, takes us back to the scripture of looking at the scripture and looking at that focus that the Lord gives each of us.
Leadership Development in Missions
00:29:28
Speaker
So we've talked about five different phases, and we're on the sixth phase after church planting, and we have leadership development. So this is a big overview, but do you think we're going to be able to cover all of this in this season? We could have a whole season just on one of these topics.
00:29:49
Speaker
Maybe maybe we should say we don't actually know what we're doing. But what we know is this is important and we're going to do as much as we can in season two. Maybe it's going to be in season three as well. We'll see. But I think this is an important thing as we start to think about strategy and engaging diaspora. We have to know, one, what the process is. But two, we have to get practical along the way and say, what does this look like expressed in my context with my focus people? Now, leadership development.
00:30:18
Speaker
Very biblical. I think people would say, yeah, Jesus developed 12 leaders and they multiplied and changed the world. Paul and Barnabas on their first missionary journey. This only makes sense if there's churches because it says they appointed elders with prayer and fasting. So after discipleship has taken place, and this is short term discipleship. It's not like Paul and Barnabas spent three years with them. They spent a very short time with them.
00:30:46
Speaker
And it was the community who saw these leaders raised raised up from among them. It wasn't honestly, I think something we get really wrong at the church in the West is we talked about calling, but it's like churches going from place to place. I mean, pastors going from place to place when really the biblical model is the leaders within the community. And the tensions we see in leadership development is, you know, is Bible college or seminary required?
00:31:15
Speaker
And then that leads to this idea of character versus competency. And I think the scripture talks about leaders' character less than their competency. And we flip that a little bit. Super.
00:31:28
Speaker
kind of hot topic from this past summer is what is the role of women in leadership in the church? I think something that needs to be challenged is ordination, biblical. So you have all of these extra biblical things that are being laid on to emerging leaders. And I heard someone say one time, I think it was Bill Smith, I don't remember, but he said something along the lines of don't put Saul's armor on the next generation's David's.
00:31:59
Speaker
Meaning just because a church of a thousand people does something a certain way, it doesn't mean it's bad, but don't impose that on someone who's not of the same size, stature, strength. They're going to do it their own way. All they need is a sling and some rocks. Wow.
00:32:17
Speaker
Again, I feel like we have a lot to cover in this season, but I'm excited.
Recap and Preview
00:32:23
Speaker
So I'm gonna repeat these phases one more time that we've kind of gone through for this big picture. And then we've discussed many, many, many tensions with this as well. But those six phases are calling, sending, preparation one, connecting with the people, sharing,
00:32:46
Speaker
evangelism, discipleship, church planting and leadership development. So we look forward to the next episode. Yeah, great recap. Rebecca, thanks again for listening to the Let's Talk Diaspora podcast where season two we're looking at this uncomfortable middle and mission strategy in the diaspora.