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The Role of Trauma Healing in Discipling the Diaspora
153 Plays10 months ago
Rebecca and Bud dive into a conversation with trauma care experts Steve and Jason, exploring the nuances of trauma-informed care, trauma healing, and trauma sensitivity. They share personal journeys, intertwining experiences of trauma care in diverse contexts, from war-torn regions to diaspora communities. The conversation delves into the definitions of trauma, emphasizing the perception of events and the importance of addressing both trauma A (presence of bad events) and trauma B (absence of good experiences). With statistics highlighting the prevalence of trauma, especially in refugee populations, the conversation shifts to the intersection of trauma sensitivity with evangelism and disciple making. Jason and Steve stress the significance of integrating trauma healing with discipleship, emphasizing the need for a reverent witness to others' pain. Practical insights are shared, including the importance of building trust, attuned listening, and asking open-ended questions to facilitate healing conversations.
Further Resources:
https://crisiscareinternational.org/
https://www.traumahealingbasics.org/
Steve's Email: mosesmusings@gmail.com
Jason's Email: jasonadamsbrown@globalgates.info
Quotables:
Discounting our own pain is a sure sign that we cannot be a reverent witness to the pain of others. - Kathleen O’Connor
Trauma is perhaps the greatest mission field of the 21st century. - Dr. Diane Langberg
70% of adults in the U.S. have experienced some type of traumatic event at least once in their lives.
National Council for Behavioral Health
39% of refugees have post-traumatic stress disorder vs. 1% of the general population.
Seeking Refuge: On the Shores of the Global Refugee Crisis
Recommended
Transcript
Podcast Introduction and Guests
00:00:04
Speaker
All right well welcome welcome everyone to Let's Talk Diaspora. We are in I believe we're in season three now if I remember correctly and we've got two great guests with us today. I wish you could see their faces. We've got a long beard Steve Moses with us today and as
00:00:30
Speaker
Jason went earlier, told us he's really young with his young baby face. Jason is with us.
Defining Trauma Terms
00:00:39
Speaker
So I just want you to get ready to hear about trauma care in the diaspora. So welcome, guys. We're glad to have you. Thanks. Thanks for bucking bud. Good to be here.
00:00:53
Speaker
Yeah. So great to have you guys on talking about an important topic. And, um, I just have a question maybe to kick us off and, and we are talking about trauma care, trauma, informed care, trauma healing, maybe the first place to start. And this is just helpful for me is maybe just defining what your preferred term is. And is there, is there differences in the terms and how would you define what
Steve's Perspective on 'Trauma-Sensitive'
00:01:20
Speaker
we're going to be talking about? So we're just jumping right in, but, um,
00:01:23
Speaker
I think for me personally and hopefully our listeners that that's a good starting point for us just to Just to hear about that and then we'll give you guys an opportunity to introduce yourselves Go ahead Steve Yeah, I think that in different contexts I use that words those words differently so trauma healing trauma informed and then even use the word trauma and then
00:01:52
Speaker
So when I think about, uh, the words I like to use actually are more trauma sensitive. So I use that often. And what I mean more about that is being trauma informed is we can have all that information and you can be trained and equipped and understand trauma, but are you actually being sensitive and actually implementing what you've actually learned? And so then that backs up to what do we mean by the word trauma and
00:02:20
Speaker
there's a little bit longer there about the word trauma, but to answer your question directly, trauma sensitive is what I lean toward. Great. Jason, anything you would want to add?
00:02:38
Speaker
Yeah, no, I think some stuff will come up later in the conversation as well around different wordings that we use at times. But yeah, the main thing I would have highlighted is the same Steve did around trauma sensitive. So. Which I love when you say that I hear the word listening, a lot of listening, a lot of being there and really listening and learning. So I'm excited to hear kind of all that is involved.
00:03:04
Speaker
Guys, can you tell us, maybe Jason, you can start
Jason's Journey in Trauma Care
00:03:08
Speaker
for us. Let us know, how did you get involved in this trauma sensitive?
00:03:15
Speaker
Yeah, um, I think it you know, it started even when I was overseas My wife and I before we ever had kids, you know, we had them on when we're overseas But we moved to the province of Aceh Indonesia where they were having a civil war and then five years into our time there the tsunami in 2004 happened as well and so
00:03:44
Speaker
in kind of ministering and living on this province, recognizing the massive impact that multiple major traumas that happen and how it impacts the people that you're trying to love and share with and have community with. And so I began to really, I actually started to get an MFT degree thinking I wanted to gain some extra skills on this to be able to use for ministry.
00:04:14
Speaker
And then in 2009 we transitioned to a new role in Singapore and there I was doing a lot of work related to
00:04:27
Speaker
different Muslims that had come to be followers of Jesus and then recognizing the impact that trauma had on them as well, whether it was major persecution from their family or the community or just that incredible shift from feeling like they're all alone and that kind of trauma and recognizing
00:04:48
Speaker
Man, sometimes I'm doing this so quickly. I'm wanting to have this impact and I'm wanting to see church planning movements, I'm wanting to see this, I'm wanting to see that, and recognizing that at times I was really not dealing deeply with some of the issues that they were needing. So yeah, coming back to the states,
00:05:11
Speaker
I'm not sure that this was something I was going to continue doing, but even then starting to work for Global Gates, began to recognize that this was still a passion of mine and desire.
Steve's Refugee Resettlement Experience
00:05:22
Speaker
I have a high capacity to sit with people in pain and suffering and listening to them and bearing witness to their story. And so that's kind of my story of getting to trauma care at this point.
00:05:37
Speaker
You know, my story, I've worked with Muslim peoples for about 27 years now. And at one point after moving back from living in North Africa in the Middle East, I became the director of a refugee resettlement agency. And so I was helping bring in immigrants and refugees to the United States. And someone came to me and said, how are you caring for their
00:06:06
Speaker
emotional and psychological care and health and I remember thinking we're not like at all like zero like there's nowhere the at that time the the United States our government didn't have a box for that it was helped them with social services and getting a job and housing and kids in school and all those kind of things and someone said I think you need to
00:06:34
Speaker
think about caring for that. And I remember thinking, I don't have time.
00:06:39
Speaker
It's not time. There's, there's no way. And they, and then I realized I really need to think about this more. And then I Googled like literally like trauma and refugees, and I get like 2 million sites. And I was like, where do I land this plane? And someone came to me and said, I think you should think about this particular training, um, that I started with mainly because it was in like a hundred languages already.
00:07:06
Speaker
It was in a hundred different countries. And so I was like, okay, this is, this is helping me because I don't need to figure out how to do translation work and do all that kind of stuff. And also it was taking basic mental health principles and taking the Bible. So all those things, I was like, Oh, this is, you know, not just only psychosocial things. And it's not only just, uh, just read the Bible and life's going to be better kind of thing.
00:07:31
Speaker
because we want to have both of that. So that's how I got involved. And then as I went further in that, my wife and I realized that trauma doesn't play favorites, surprise, surprise friends. It doesn't target the rich or the poor, the young or the old, men or women or children or this religious group or that religious group.
00:07:50
Speaker
that actually were all been affected by trauma. And so then it just made this more even radical shift for our family to be like, okay, this is taken on, not just, I want to get trained and equipped to help quote those people. It affects all of us. As you mentioned the word trauma, what, how do you define trauma?
Understanding Trauma A and B
00:08:14
Speaker
What, I mean, as we think about different trauma aspects, what would that look like?
00:08:21
Speaker
Yeah, so when I hear the word trauma, people often are like usually think I don't have any trauma because I'm not like and they'll compare to something else or they'll think I have so much trauma, you know, no one can help me. So often I tell people
00:08:39
Speaker
um ask those questions about do you have any pain loss or suffering in your life and usually people are like yes because we all have pain loss and suffering so thinking about that another way i think about like what trauma is is um that when you suffer alone
00:08:57
Speaker
Okay. That can lead to trauma. So when you feel like you're alone and whatever that suffering you have, it can lead to trauma. Another way of looking at it is that trauma is often not so much about an event or even a series of events. It's about our perception of what happened in that event. And so that often shapes some things when we think about trauma.
00:09:18
Speaker
And then I think the last thing I would say, and then Jason can add to this as well, is I think there's an understanding of what we mean about trauma A's and trauma B's. Most of the time when we use the word trauma, we're thinking of trauma B's, meaning B, think about bad things happen to us. And people say, well, I don't have any trauma because I haven't had any really quote bad things happen to me. I haven't been in war. I haven't been abused. There hasn't been any kind of those kind of things in my life.
00:09:48
Speaker
but there is another kind of trauma and that's trauma a that's absence of things right um when you were being raised did people view you and enjoy being with you and they just like being there were you able to be in a position of just receiving the absence of things there so trauma a's and trauma b's that helps us also understand trauma in different ways
00:10:09
Speaker
So we are the Let's Talk Diaspora podcast. It's very applicable. You are working, you know, with a resettlement agency. Many people that come to the US come that route.
Trauma's Prevalence Among the Diaspora
00:10:22
Speaker
And maybe this is a question that doesn't have a scientific or a research-driven answer, but just from your experience,
00:10:30
Speaker
Like, what number of people coming in the Diaspora have experienced either one trauma A or trauma B? Like, are we talking, hey, it's 40%, 90%, 100%? What is, in your opinion, what does that look like?
00:10:46
Speaker
Well, I'm going to give you more than my opinion. How about that? I'll give you some, even some data points here to help with that. I will say this, that Dr. Diane Langberg, who has done a lot of research about pain, loss, suffering, trauma, I mean, she's credited for saying that trauma is perhaps the greatest mission field in the 21st century.
00:11:08
Speaker
It's probably the greatest mission field in every century, to be honest with you, but we'll just say the 21st century. So when you look at the National Council of Behavioral Health says that 70% of adults in the US have experienced some type of traumatic event in their lifetime. That's people in the United States, adults, 70%.
00:11:32
Speaker
Okay. So then you go to the diaspora you're talking about, and this comes from a book called seeking refuge. And it was written when the Syrian crisis was kind of going on several years ago. So it's some data points from then. And their research showed that 39% of refugees have PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder versus 1% of the general population.
00:12:01
Speaker
I mean, think about that, almost a 40% increase of people that are coming from a refugee background have PTSD versus the general population. So there's a few data points there of thinking about who's coming here. But yeah, another way, even when Steve was talking earlier around defining trauma, talking about it in terms of
00:12:29
Speaker
things that you didn't receive, right? And so if you think about childhood, there's six key things that every child needs from their parents. And I'm not going to remember all six off the top of my head. My memory is not as good as Steve's, but you know, there are examples like were your parents able to deal with your difficult emotions, even your big ones?
00:12:53
Speaker
Were your parents attuned to your emotions and your needs? Could your parents tell when you were in distress and would try to comfort you? Those types of things. Well, I'm not saying that to put a value statement on everybody's parenting, but I think for almost all of us we'd say there were times where we did not receive that and it's at different levels in terms of the impact on our lives.
00:13:23
Speaker
It's one of the things I tell my kids, hey, we're going to save some funds for your college and future therapy because I know there's ways that we've caused harm unintentionally at times. And I always want you to let me know that and come and be honest with me. And so it's not about being perfect parents, but there's many times just the stresses of our own lives.
00:13:44
Speaker
We're not able to be attuned. We can't deal with the big emotions of our kids and those types of things. And that can cause trauma for a child that can later develop even into some things into adulthood. That's very helpful. Um, so our preface, this is the let's talk diaspora podcast. And typically our conversations are related around.
00:14:05
Speaker
You know, sharing the gospel, disciple-making, and those types of topics, and it's not to the neglect of the health of the disciple, right? So it's like we want disciples to reproduce that are worth producing. So I think this is a really important topic in that, but how—can you help us think through how trauma-sensitive—how we can be trauma—how—let me start
Impact of Trauma on Religious Conversion
00:14:32
Speaker
that again.
00:14:32
Speaker
Can you help us think through how being trauma sensitive helps people come to Christ and grow in the relationship with Christ? Or maybe the opposite or the negative of that is when trauma hasn't been dealt with, how does it keep them from that? Yeah, I'll answer. I'll say something here, Steve, and then Steve and I were talking about this earlier, and he's got a lot of great input around this.
00:14:59
Speaker
So one thing I would add is when you think about the impact that trauma has on our brain and how we actually, some things, ways that we react to keep ourselves from feeling like the world's not chaotic.
00:15:15
Speaker
A short conversation around this would just be how the trauma impacts your brain is if you're in a traumatic event, there's always different ways that you're processing that event. It's what you see, what you smell, what you think, what your body inclinations, those types of things, and they're all stored in different parts of your brain.
00:15:37
Speaker
And when it's a healthy memory, the neurons that connect to those different parts of your brain are thick and healthy. But when it's a traumatic event where, as Steve said earlier, you were alone in that trauma, you didn't have a parent or a loved one that attuned to your emotions and your needs in that moment, that memory can become those, the neurons are very thin and not connected well.
00:16:04
Speaker
One of the ways, especially when we've had multiple trauma events, one way that we respond to that to help ourselves feel more like we have control because the brain is, in that sense, is referred to as fragmented as opposed to integrated.
00:16:25
Speaker
And so in a fragmented brain, you can literally feel like the ground beneath you is not sturdy, like it's chaotic. So one of the ways you respond to that is through dogmatism, where you start to believe things in such a way in very black and white ways. You can't deal with nuance. It may not be something that you've really researched or understand, but it's really based on how those decisions make you feel.
00:16:54
Speaker
And so when we're sharing Jesus with someone from a different religious background and they have a lot of trauma, and dogmatism is one of those things that's making them feel less chaotic, and we start bringing a whole other way of thinking around God, around how we should live and all these different types of things of who Jesus was and is.
00:17:17
Speaker
If that dogmatism is keeping them to feel like the ground is level, just beginning to think that could be wrong, boy, it can feel like suddenly everything feels chaotic. And you dig deeper into dogmatism at that point. And I've seen this when I've been sharing with people in the past.
00:17:38
Speaker
And sometimes, so with evangelism, how do we respond to that? Do we respond with, like, frustration because we think this guy's a jerk? Do we respond with digging in deeper in how we are going to keep sharing? Are we going to try to go deeper into fear and shame to get them wanting to accept this? All of those types of things can really cause, I think, it's just counterproductive, but can also cause more damage.
00:18:08
Speaker
And even if they suddenly start to shift to what we're proposing to them around the gospel, they may come to the gospel in a very dogmatic way as well, and then they're not relating to others well because we never help them work through and deal with their trauma. And so I think that has a lot of implications, and I know Steve has a lot of experience around this as well.
00:18:33
Speaker
No, that's good. Thanks for sharing those things. Jason, those are helpful. You know, when I think about how does being trauma sensitive and understanding trauma affect
00:18:51
Speaker
evangelism, disciple making.
Integrating Trauma Healing in Evangelism
00:18:54
Speaker
The very first thing that comes to mind is several of Muslim background believers that I know from various contexts have told me, even said, Steve, you have to go tell your friends in the West this, what I'm gonna tell you. They said, you cannot have disciple making without trauma healing.
00:19:18
Speaker
and they said they need to know you have to have both those things. And so what they mean by that is there's people that maybe know how to present the gospel, but then through that people start sharing some of their pain loss and suffering and people don't know what to do with that, right? So for example,
00:19:35
Speaker
someone was telling me about this where people are crossing over the border of the United States at the southern border and a woman had just lost her baby, but there were people there that were prepared to give out Bibles, right? But they didn't know how to comfort this woman that had just lost her child, but they knew how to give out a Bible and give some kind of presentation. Well, that woman
00:20:00
Speaker
needed more than just that Bible to read in that moment. She needed some care. So part of that is what we're learning is to actually validate with people and comfort them before we start trying to give them that. But if not, it just becomes this transaction of things. And so part of that is learning to ask questions with them.
00:20:22
Speaker
And so there's also a presupposition that we're assuming when we're presenting things, we're saying that God is good. Their perception may be different. You're telling me God's good? Well, then why did my child just pass away? Why am I separated from my family? Why have I been abused? Why are these things happening to me? If God is merciful, is God, if he is loving, why is there all this suffering happening in my life? How do we answer those kinds of questions?
00:20:51
Speaker
Because then, if we're not careful, we want people to actually bond with God, the way we're sharing with Him, not out of even fear, not a fear bonding, but a love-joyful bonding of knowing those things. I think another thing I think about is the way you're presenting to people, people have different maturity levels, emotional and psychological and not just like
00:21:18
Speaker
Oh, they're at a certain age of maturity, but they actually have different emotional maturity levels. And the way I present something, if I have it packaged for a certain thing, the way I share with someone that maybe has more of that emotional development of something that's at a different level than someone that's at a higher level, then you got to change those maturity kind of things. And so I think listening with people, sitting with them, also with our brain having trauma,
00:21:46
Speaker
It actually makes it where we can't actually receive input. We know that if someone's not being relational with me and that they're just glad to be with me, so I need to be glad to be with that person even when their life is crazy and chaotic and that they know I'm not going to go anywhere, even if they say, you know what? I don't really want to follow the ways of Jesus. We don't just move away from them. We're still with them and it doesn't just become this transaction of things.
00:22:15
Speaker
And I think also storytelling.
00:22:17
Speaker
is really important of how we share a story of how God has healed us from our pain loss and suffering or how we know that we weren't alone in our pain loss and suffering because God was with us. We know that God's with us. We say that as followers of Jesus, but how do we communicate? Even in my hard times in my life, He was with me and actually He was with them even in their hard things. So I think that changes some things
00:22:46
Speaker
And then the last thing that I'm thinking about is this quote from a woman named Kathleen O'Connor. She does a lot of writing about lamenting and different things. And she has this quote that I think is really important for us that are working in cross-cultural settings. She says, discounting our own pain is a sure sign that we cannot be a reverent witness to the pain of others.
00:23:09
Speaker
So I'll say that again, that if we discount our own pain, it's a sure sign that we cannot be a reverent witness to the pain of others. So we actually have to acknowledge that we have also experienced pain, loss, and suffering, but how do we talk about that we're a people that have suffered well?
00:23:25
Speaker
right? So we as followers of Jesus, we should be known as people that have suffered well and so we're showing people that here's how we've suffered well. We're not saying we don't suffer, we're actually saying we do suffer but we know how to suffer well because he's actually with us and all those things. I think all those things right there affect how we do evangelism in the sophomore making.
00:23:46
Speaker
Which one of the things I'm hearing is that we need to be trauma sensitive in our discipleship at all times, not one or the other that pendulism or trauma sensitive. We need to be both.
00:24:01
Speaker
So when you start building a relationship with someone, what does that look like?
Building Respectful Relationships
00:24:07
Speaker
Um, as you begin to build a relationship with them, what kind of questions are you asking or how are you getting to know them? Um, to, to, I mean, I assume you would need to hear a little more of their story of their trauma and you don't just go say, I know you've had trauma. Tell me about it. I mean, what does that look like on a practical basis?
00:24:31
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sure Steve will have a lot to add to this as well, but I would say, you know, when I'm starting a relationship with someone and a lot of what I interact with here in the area that I'm in is other Afghans that have experienced a lot of trauma and their exit from Afghanistan and those types of things and the war in Afghanistan.
00:24:50
Speaker
So often it's, I'm not saying, hey, tell me about your trauma or even leading into that, but I am trying to make sure they know I'm a person that's safe, a person that cares for them, a person that's patient when they're sharing. That is not trying to use them in any way or like as Steve said several times that this is some transactional thing that I'm trying to do, but I'm actually caring for that person.
00:25:16
Speaker
And then as they begin to share, I can ask more specific questions. A lot of times I just say, hey, I know this has been so challenging, or I express something that shows that I at least can understand that this is such a difficult thing, but showing that I'm willing to be there for them.
00:25:41
Speaker
And when they start to ask things, I can say, hey, you know, tell me more about that if you're comfortable, no pressure if you don't want to share. But giving on that space to be in a tuned listener and being aware. And when you are watching them and you're watching their body and you're watching their face and you're seeing that,
00:26:00
Speaker
Many times I'm saying a statement along the lines of, wow, I know there's so much I don't understand, but when I hear you share that with me, it helps me understand so much more. I think as Americans, there's something in American culture, I think, where we believe that if I let a person know, oh, I know exactly where you're coming from, or
00:26:21
Speaker
We want to show that we understand so much about their culture to where it shuts a person down from actually communicating things. But if we let them be the expert,
00:26:32
Speaker
and not feel like we've got to show our expertise, because that makes us feel like, hey, I'm a trusted person. I know all these things about your background, your experience, and all that. That actually doesn't help people communicate and go deeper into that. It instead makes them think, ah, they know, so what's the point of talking about it? And so that phrase of saying, wow, I just, you know,
00:26:54
Speaker
I can't understand that without you sharing more, and every time I hear you talking about this, it helps me understand more, and I'm so sorry for what you've experienced. But leading into it that way, as opposed to coming across with, I know all these things.
00:27:14
Speaker
Yeah. You know, one of the things that is, I think really important is people knowing that you actually enjoy being with them. When we recognize when someone wants to be with us and they want to move on, I do think we talk a lot about we need to build trust before we can further share with us. I'll just be honest with you. I think there's a little bit of a misnomer. Um, and the reason I say that is I'm thinking of multiple examples within the past week that I've met someone for the first time from a different culture.
00:27:45
Speaker
that they started sharing things with me. And then next thing I know, they're sharing more things with me and they're sharing about their life and they're sharing these different things. And so for example, one thing I change with people is I just say, Hey, why don't you tell me what you've been enjoying recently and rather than what you do. So I'm changing the conversation right off the bat, right? So I'm already getting their brain to think differently by asking that simple question. Hey, what'd you enjoy this week?
00:28:11
Speaker
are you looking forward to getting those things versus a to-do list because we as especially Westerners go to the do list and usually it just moves to a complaint list like here's all the things I don't want to do or had to do and so just asking that and then just listening to them so I was with a Syrian man recently and he just looked
00:28:31
Speaker
He would not like himself. I met him one other time and I said, how are you? He said, I'm good. I said, you look something looks different. So that's me attuning to the fact of something looks off with him. Right. And I just said, what's, what's going on? And he proceeds to tell me other things in his life. He said, thanks for giving me space to share that. Right. So then I just asked simple things like, well, just tell me what happened.
00:28:56
Speaker
And then I'm like, man, thanks for sharing that. You shared a lot with me. Would you want to, you know, tell me like how you were even feeling with that and those kinds of things? Or like, what were some things that you were thinking about in that moment? And then he shares more of that. And then usually as they continue on, I'll say things like, man, thanks for sharing those things with me.
00:29:18
Speaker
there something that I use and was like the hardest thing for you and all that, right? But I was with another woman that was from the Philippines and I was just talking with her and she just talked about she had to leave to come here and I started talking about I've helped people get here and I was just sharing like how did you get here, right? I used to help people get here. I have that part of my background so I use that often with people saying I know a little bit about that
00:29:42
Speaker
immigration process. So how'd you get here? Well, I had to flee because of certain things and doing that and some of my family still left behind and then she starts saying more things. She says, well, some of my family passed away while I was here. And then that leads to, okay, what do I do with that? Do I just say, I'm sorry to hear that. I can't, that's true. I am sorry to hear that. Or do I say, wow, so how are you feeling about that today? That you didn't get to go back for the funeral or the memorial service?
00:30:12
Speaker
asking. And then also asking things like, well, how have you been coping with that? That was so recent. How have you been coping with that? So learning some of those skills to not just say, I'm sorry, which is true, or like, I'll be praying for you. Maybe they want me to pray for these people who are following the ways of Jesus. And so they're thinking, why are you going to pray for me? Or people that have been even hurt by people that are religious in some way.
00:30:39
Speaker
So think part of it is learning those kinds of things as well. So yes, you need to build trust. I understand that piece, but I think if we can do that, if we are trauma sensitive, we can be attuned to what's happening and recognizing those things.
00:30:53
Speaker
and then asking those open-ended questions to help them actually process because you said this about being a good listener and I totally agree with that. I think it is about being a good listener but it's also being a good listener that's asking questions for them to process not just for me to get answers right so I can have more data points on them and like
00:31:13
Speaker
So, do they feel like I'm, you know, am I feeling a report on them and interrogating them or actually I'm inquisitive about their lives? And people know the difference from that. Like, I'm not going back and feeling a report being like, here's all the things I'm telling you about Bud. Bud's like, dude, that doesn't feel welcoming, right?
00:31:28
Speaker
But I'm enjoying listening to them and talking with them and then that's what's going to change them. Me being calm, me being not anxious, me listening to them, me saying I can actually have the capacity to actually hear really hard things about your life and I'm not going to run away from that. That is really powerful for people to experience that.
00:31:53
Speaker
Well, it's powerful because I think as you say that, I think about how you're taking the whole conversation off of what you want or you, but really focusing in on them and helping them process and them, you know, prayerfully heal in a lot of different ways, prayerfully all the way to spiritually, but, you know, beginning with some of that emotional healing as well.
00:32:21
Speaker
Can you tell us if somebody wanted to learn more about how to get involved or where to get started?
Resources for Trauma Care
00:32:28
Speaker
Can you all give us some resources or places to start learning or learning more? Yeah, I'll hit you with three things here and you can go to these things and then we'll make sure that you get this. One is called, I would go to crisiscareinternational.org.
00:32:50
Speaker
And look at that, there'll be at times, listings of different trainings to get involved there. So, crisiscareinternational.org. Another is I'd go to traumahealingbasics.org. There's like one minute videos, what's trauma, or like there's different things about like these questions we're talking about. What's the question you ask? It asks things of like, how do you become a really good listener? And then the thing is, feel free to reach out to me personally. You can gladly email me.
00:33:22
Speaker
And that's Moses, my last name, M-O-S-E-S, Musings, M-U-S-I-N-G-S at gmail.com. Those three things are there. Feel free to look at those websites or you can email me directly. I'm glad to help in any way. Same here. Do you guys, do you show notes? Yeah, so just obviously add my email. I'm happy to answer any questions or if you want to reach out.
00:33:50
Speaker
Chair Moore. This is an interesting conversation every time I'm with Steve Moses, or you Jason, I often recognize my, my lack of sensitivity in this area. So this has been an encouraging conversation for me.
00:34:10
Speaker
And I just feel like I should share this story just this week. A friend of mine visited the mosque and there were three Mauritanian guys sitting at a picnic table outside the mosque. The imam wasn't there. We're like, well, we'll just go talk to these guys.
00:34:28
Speaker
And Mauritanians have been, been coming through the southern border pretty readily. Um, they had come across in Tijuana, flew to New York city, and now they're in Texas. They've only been here five days and they're just basically going moss to moss looking for help. And, uh, in, in my inefficient, but like desirable way, we just sat with them and, and heard about their journey for over an hour.
00:34:57
Speaker
And in that, we had the opportunity to share some truth with them. We had conversations because it's inevitable that it comes up. But that only happened because I had allocated time to spend time with the Imam and he wasn't there. And so just from a very Type A personality person who desires to grow in this, you have to have margin in your schedule.
00:35:26
Speaker
You can't be... I'm speaking to myself but I'm assuming there's people like me that's listening. You can't continue to be driven to the next thing because then people will feel like you have an agenda that you're a project and I'm not putting blame on anything but I'm the result of our culture and changing culture is challenging but what it becomes is change happens whenever you see that the benefit is greater
00:35:52
Speaker
then the pain it causes you to change and the pain for me to change really isn't that much. I just have to see the benefit. And so for those listening, I just want to encourage you to consider the benefit that you would be able to have eternally, but also on a very personal level by growing in these ways. So...
00:36:12
Speaker
I felt like I needed to share that just because I'm growing, you're listening, this may be new to you. It's a journey and I'm just so grateful to have people like Steve and Jason to help us along the way.
Prayer and Encouragement for Trauma Workers
00:36:26
Speaker
Uh, one thing we do want to do is we want to pray for you two guys as, as we go. And so, uh, not always do we do this with, with our podcasts and our listeners, but we, we want our listeners even to pause and pray for you guys. Cause what you're doing is important. And there, there are people who will try to tell you, oh, you can invest your time in another way. And just so grateful that you've made this commitment to this cause it's, cause it's needed.
00:36:53
Speaker
Let me pray. Father, God, thank you for Jason. God, thank you for Steve. Lord, we just pray that they would hear your voice like a Nehemiah whenever you told him. Whenever we see that Nehemiah said, I'm doing a good work, why should I come down in the work stop to meet with you?
00:37:12
Speaker
Lord, help these brothers see that they are doing a good work. Lord Jesus, those who are listening to this, God, I just pray that they would find these resources and just continue to walk in the ways of Jesus. And ultimately, Lord, that you would be glorified among the nations. And we pray that in your mighty name. Amen.
00:37:34
Speaker
So thank you all for listening to the Let's Talk diaspora podcast. If you have found this episode helpful, please consider sharing it with others that it would benefit if you've not liked or subscribed, the podcast do that. And also consider leaving a rating. It helps more people find content like this that will continue to help us serve the nations as they come to love and follow Jesus.