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Ep 15. Angela McConville, CEO National Childbirth Trust: Creating a Movement for Change image

Ep 15. Angela McConville, CEO National Childbirth Trust: Creating a Movement for Change

S2 · The Charity CEO Podcast
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60 Plays4 years ago
“Great Chief Executives... they are not (necessarily) the innovators; they might be the change-makers... its about creating the conditions for the team to thrive and for the movement to thrive...”
Angela McConville is the CEO of the National Childbirth Trust, also known as the NCT Charity. 
In this episode we explore how NCT has created a grass-roots, volunteer-led movement providing services for expectant and new parents. Angela describes how embracing the power of digital during the pandemic actually led to a huge increase in the organisation’s reach and in the uptake of its services. 
NCT campaigns for change and we discuss some key campaigns the charity has led, including mental health support and provision for new mothers (#HiddenHalf). We also spotlight the important work carried out by MBRRACE-UK on improving maternal mortality rates and outcomes for Black mothers. 
We discuss community organising and how NCT has seen a paradigm shift in the way it empowers and engages its volunteers, as a result of the pandemic. Angela holds that organisations need to do more to remove barriers to volunteering and to really harness the power of ‘hyper-local’ community engagement.

Angela also shares personal stories juggling leadership and motherhood and life.
Recorded March 2021.
Guest Biography 
Angela McConville is CEO of the National Childbirth Trust (NCT), the UK’s largest charity for new parents. Angela joined NCT in January 2020, having previously been Chief Executive of a number of charities working in community development, social and economic regeneration and heritage management.
After an early career at PriceWaterhouseCoopers, Angela has spent her working life in charities and not-for-profit enterprises. Her experience ranges from managing a leading visitor attraction and world heritage site, to creating a new strategy for one of London’s largest community development trusts. Angela has also served on a number of not-for-profit Boards, including The London Apprenticeship Company, City of Westminster College and the London Transport Museum.
Angela grew up in Northern Ireland and found inspiration in the work and efforts of her family and local community to forge opportunity and create provision, in the face of social and political turbulence. She studied at Trinity College Dublin and Henley Business School, and also spent a year studying at the University of Paris, Jussieu.
Angela now lives in Oxfordshire with her young family.
Links
https://www.nct.org.uk/ 
https://www.nct.org.uk/get-involved/campaigns/hidden-half-campaign 
https://www.npeu.ox.ac.uk/assets/downloads/mbrrace-uk/reports/maternal-report-2020/MBRRACE-UK_Maternal_Report_Dec_2020_v10.pdf  
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Transcript

Creating Thriving Teams as a CEO

00:00:00
Speaker
I don't feel like you have to be the person who comes up with all the answers because actually great chief executives, they're not the innovators. They might be the change makers, but really it's about creating the conditions for the team to thrive and for the movement to thrive. And I think showing a bit of humility is powerful in that space.

Season 2 Introduction

00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome to Season 2 of the Charity CEO Podcast, the podcast for charity leaders by charity leaders. This is the show that gets beneath the surface of issues, engaging in meaningful and inspirational conversations with leaders from across the sector.
00:00:45
Speaker
I'm the Rio Connor and each episode I will be interviewing a charity leader who will share with us their insights, knowledge and topical expertise on challenges facing our sector in these turbulent times. This show is for everyone who cares about the important work of charities.

Guest: Angela McConville, CEO of NCT

00:01:02
Speaker
Today, I am speaking with Angela McConville, CEO of the National Childbirth Trust, commonly known as the NCT charity. Angela describes the beating heart of NCT as building a community fabric of grassroots activities to support and provide services for expectant and new parents. Like many organizations during the pandemic, NCT had to pivot literally overnight and embrace the power of digital to continue to deliver for its beneficiaries.
00:01:31
Speaker
We talk about some key campaigns the organization has led, including mental health support and provision for new mothers. Angela also shares personal stories, being a leader and a mother and a role model, and how being a master juggler has helped her keep the tool together. I hope you enjoy the show.
00:01:51
Speaker
Hi, Angela. Welcome

Angela's Early Career and Lessons Learned

00:01:53
Speaker
to the show. So lovely to have you here today. Good morning, Divya. It's lovely to be here with you. So we are going to dive straight into our ice break around. Are you ready? I am. Question one, what was your first job? Oh, my first job was working in a hotel in a seaside resort in Northern Ireland where I
00:02:17
Speaker
had actually it was quite a good preparation for life. I had to do many different roles every day. So I served breakfast, I was a chambermaid, I worked in the restaurant, I cleaned, I served in the bar, you know, work in reception, run the tills.

Balancing Roles: Angela's Superpower

00:02:34
Speaker
So it was a great baptism of fire for working life. I had to be many things to many people across the week, but I absolutely loved it because it was so social, but everybody came in holiday season.
00:02:44
Speaker
and they were happy and you felt part of their holiday, especially for the people who came back season after season. And there was a real community feeling amongst the people who worked in and around the resort. We got to know each other. And so actually it was a really happy time for me. Oh, brilliant. Question two, what would you say is your professional superpower? Oh, I think without doubt, my professional superpower is a master juggler or plate spinner.
00:03:12
Speaker
So I'm a full-time mum and I'm a full-time charity chief executive. Both of those things require a lot of skillful juggling day to day.

Finding Peace During Lockdown

00:03:22
Speaker
So busy life, busy diaries, busy family life. And I just have developed a great art of sort of swan-like
00:03:30
Speaker
appearance while paddling frantically under the water to keep everything keep everything in play but it served me well you know and actually i think again it's one of the great joys of just being a leader of a charity you get to do many different things in any given day or week
00:03:47
Speaker
And like family life, it's unpredictable sometimes and it requires a lot of emotional capacity as well as, you know, good skillful management of diaries and schedules and logistics. So yes, I'm a master juggler. I think it's my superpower. I can completely relate to everything you said there, keeping multiple plates fitting and being really adaptive. Yeah. So question three, tell us something that you learned about yourself during lockdown.
00:04:15
Speaker
probably the thing that I've learned is that I become very at peace with being quiet and being less extrovert. So I meant extreme extroverts and my pre-pandemic life was extremely
00:04:30
Speaker
social and busy and making lots of connections and networking and attending events. And actually I've learned that I'm also very comfortable in a more quiet environment with my family and taking time out to be sort of present with them.

Travel Memories: Paris as a Home

00:04:47
Speaker
So I've learned a great deal about the peace and the joy that comes with just having a calmer, less frenetic pace.
00:04:57
Speaker
Not to say that I don't miss a lot of that vibrance and I look forward to that coming back, but I've also really enjoyed changing the pace, not commuting all the time, having more time really presently with my family. That's been a great silver lining. Yes, I agree with that as well. So the next question, if you could go on holiday anywhere in the world right now without worrying about coronavirus, where would you like to go?
00:05:24
Speaker
Oh, it's so easy for me because I just long to go to Paris. So when I was a student, I did a year of my university studies in Paris and

Admiration for Tracey Emin's Art

00:05:36
Speaker
I loved it. It is a place that I call home now. I know the city really well. I had a job teaching English.
00:05:45
Speaker
that meant that every day I got on my bike and cycled around the city. It was the year of the World Cup, so I had to learn all sorts of back roads and routes around the city to find my families and my students. And it's a city that I love and I really miss it. There are days when I get physical pangs of wanting to be in a cafe or going out for a steak treat or just strolling along one of the lovely boulevards.
00:06:11
Speaker
So I have a map of Paris in my office, and it's an inspiring thing to look at between meetings. So I do long to get on the Eurostar and just go for a lovely, relaxing weekend, see some art, eat some nice food. Yeah, sounds lovely. I hope that won't be too far away, but that will come back. I know.
00:06:34
Speaker
So our final icebreaker question, if you had the opportunity to interview anyone in the world general live, who would it be and what one question would you like to ask them? Well, I have thought about this question because I did wonder if you might ask me that. I really thought deeply about this because and the person that I would like to I'd very much like to meet an interview is the contemporary artist, Tracey Emin.
00:07:02
Speaker
So I'm an English graduate

NCT's Role in Supporting Parents

00:07:03
Speaker
and I have a great passion for the arts. It's probably like the greatest passion I have outside my charity work and Tracy Emman I find just beguiling and I think that she has a lot to say about the contemporary state of
00:07:17
Speaker
what it is to be a woman in the world today. And in 2019, I went to see her exhibition at the White Cube and it was extremely moving. Like I actually had to step out of the gallery for a period because I find it so emotionally overwhelming. And I think that she has an incredible power to communicate about loss and grief and
00:07:42
Speaker
you know, the complexity of emotions and feelings that we experience in our journey as a woman. And she had, you know, wonderful, powerful sculpture of a pregnant woman, which was called Mother. But she also talks or, you know, expresses, you know, a great deal of pain about, you know, baby loss, grief, her relationship with her own mother, her struggles with her health, with insomnia, with aging, with relationships and
00:08:08
Speaker
I think it speaks to a lot of people. I saw a lot of people really having an emotional experience that day. And I think I'd just like to talk to her about where she finds her courage.
00:08:19
Speaker
to speak out and to express what are very personal and intimate and difficult things. And I would enjoy that greatly. She's a fascinating character. And on that topic of motherhood and babies, I think it's a brilliant segue to come on to our main discussion for this podcast. So Angela, you are the chief executive of the NCT charity, the National Childbirth Trust, and
00:08:45
Speaker
I think if you're a parent in the UK, it's hard not to have heard of NCT and its services, and my husband and I certainly were part of an NCT antenatal group when we had our first child. So let's start off by talking about NCT's work. Can you tell us about your mission and your programmes of work? Yes, of course. Well, yes, you're right. NCT has a very proud heritage as a charity, and we are the national charity for
00:09:11
Speaker
pregnancy, birth, and early parenthood. As you experienced, we have a considerable impact every year in supporting pregnant women and their partners if they have a partner prepare for birth through our antenatal education program. That's been in our DNA, that was part of our founding, if you like, energy was to bring
00:09:33
Speaker
people together to prepare for birth and to build knowledge and information and to support parents to make empowered decisions, both about their birth, but then about the choices that they may make as parents. And it also is this place in which we help parents to build the connections, the networks, the friendships and the contacts in their local community that prove to be so valuable

Pandemic Response: Walk and Talk Groups

00:10:00
Speaker
in those early days, which parents tell us are, you know, it's often an isolating time. It's a daunting time. You're unsure of yourself, especially if it's your first child and just having this ready-made group of peers that you can, you know, reach out to, you know, share experiences, ask questions, get together, have company. Those things prove to be very, very valuable.
00:10:26
Speaker
But beyond our work in terms of antinatal education, we also have a very significant programme of breastfeeding and infant feeding support. So we have hundreds of breastfeeding counsellors that are trained and working all over the country, often quite quietly and quite intimately supporting families with their feeding choices. And that's not just in the early days that can be across the first year as people hit certain milestones in terms of how they feed their baby and the choices that they make.
00:10:54
Speaker
that you know that takes a form of one-to-one work with families and it also looks like baby cafes and group feeding support and we even have courses where you can you know how to introduce your baby to solid food and things like that. And then the wider work that we do which is really the you know the beating heart of our charity is across all of the community work that we do. So we're working across the four nations of the UK
00:11:19
Speaker
We have over 300 branches. They are powered by parents, for parents, and they're really diverse. And one of the great joys I had in my early months with NCT was just getting out on the road and visiting that activity and meeting those groups and going to bumps and babies groups and visiting a nearly new sale, which is where parents come together and they recycle and sell baby goods and they fundraise and put that money back into more programs for their local parent activities.
00:11:49
Speaker
So, I mean, that's just wonderful. That's the vibrant community grassroots heart of our charity. And it's really been very impressive in the pandemic to see that that appetite for parents to support other parents and to work together in their community to prevent isolation, that's really come to the fore. And I think I was telling you when we spoke previously that we have
00:12:16
Speaker
used the government's exemption for charities to set up support groups to enable our volunteers to work within their communities to set up walk and

Digital Adaptation for Parent Education

00:12:27
Speaker
talk groups. There was a real appetite for parents who, you know, whatever their circumstances, increasingly we were getting reports of isolation, mental health concerns, wellbeing concerns,
00:12:39
Speaker
And we really felt that as soon as the government would give us any framework by which we could enable parents to come together safely, we wanted to do that. So we tested a walk and talk groups, a handful of them one week. And it has just really taken off. It's surprised us and it's delighted us. I think we have now ran something like 2,600 walks.
00:13:04
Speaker
18,000 parents have joined us. It grows every week. 650 new volunteers registered with us, some in branches which had been dormant for a long time, some in parts of the country where there'd never been a branch, just really wanting to respond to that appetite for human connectivity, getting out in the fresh air.
00:13:25
Speaker
looking after your well-being, being in touch with other parents. I mean it just, it's sort of some of the most basic human instincts but it was just there and we were really delighted that we could, you know, get in behind the volunteers and enable them to do that safely and quickly.
00:13:40
Speaker
Yes, let's talk a bit more about the impact that the pandemic has had on the organisation, on delivery of services. I mean, talk to us about the issues that you have seen for new parents in lockdown. During the first lockdown, we heard stories about fathers not being allowed into maternity wards, for example, when their partners were having a baby. I mean, how has NCT really been able to support parents differently, dealing with these sorts of issues during the pandemic?
00:14:09
Speaker
So I've given you the example of how we're doing it in our volunteering services and in our community work, but actually we've been very adaptive across our services. Our anti-natal education program, we pivoted it online within 72 hours because we have parents booked on courses every day across the country. So there wasn't really time to take it offline, develop a new online product, put it back online.
00:14:36
Speaker
We literally pivoted and we're notifying tomorrow's parents that they were going on to Zoom. And I think at this point in time, we've supported 60,000 parents in that channel. And it's astonishing, both the response but the feedback. 92% of our parents are saying that it is a good or excellent experience and that it is what they wanted to get out of their NCT course.
00:15:03
Speaker
So I think it's really opened our eyes to the power of digital, not as a replacement for but as part of the mix and part of the way that we want to deliver services to parents in the future.

Influencing Public Policy and NHS Practices

00:15:15
Speaker
I've been absolutely just overwhelmed by the spirit of
00:15:21
Speaker
experimentation that our workforce have shown. So I think if I'd arrived at NCTE in January of last year and said, I want us to go digital in a big way, I'm not sure that that would have landed really well, but to just have seen our practitioner community, our breastfeeding counselors, they just rose up
00:15:45
Speaker
They embraced it, they started organizing amongst themselves in terms of training each other and tips and exchanges and support alongside our professional CPD support. So that was wonderful, just their spirit of embracing what needed to happen to keep that contact with parents.
00:16:03
Speaker
I mean, you talk about our communications and our influencing and our policy work, and that hasn't gone away either. And NCT, again, has a very proud heritage in terms of influencing public policy and practice for parents and pregnant women. And we have been doing that sometimes quietly.
00:16:20
Speaker
in the background throughout the pandemic. We have a feeding line, an infant feeding line, where people who are struggling with their feeding can contact us. We saw a real uplift in people contacting us on the line. We saw an uplift in the complexity of the calls, the needs that families had in terms of
00:16:38
Speaker
I mean, I couldn't begin to describe the ways that the pandemic were impacting families. You know, I'm a mum with a new baby and my partner is the key worker and he's living on site at a hospital and I'm alone and I'm struggling to feed and I don't know if I'm, you know, really powerful stories of how it was impacting
00:16:57
Speaker
individuals and again just having to be very adaptive but then use that intelligence to play back into the systems, into our NHS relationships, into our relationships with royal colleges and really trying to advocate for parents because of course the NHS was under and continues to be under huge strain and there's a balance of choices in any system like that but we wanted to make sure that
00:17:23
Speaker
what we were hearing from parents and what we knew their lived experiences were, that we were advocating for that and we were sharing that. So on that issue that you just said about visiting restrictions, which there certainly was a time when that was very both topical and at times controversial. What our position was like, we work really closely with professionals in the NHS. We didn't want a situation where we were pitting one service against an ex. And so what we wanted to do was continue
00:17:52
Speaker
make sure that parents' stories and experiences were visible and heard, that we were advocating for parents, and that where things were happening really well in certain parts of the country, so where we might have seen practice that was good or was creative or innovative, that we were working through our partnerships to say,

Hidden Half Campaign for Mental Health Support

00:18:09
Speaker
Can we do more of this? Can we adapt this? Can technology help with this? Can collaboration help? So it's been great. We have a small team in that space, but they are mighty and the relationships are very strong. And I've been grateful to have, you know, I've had really great access personally to very senior people within the Royal Colleges, within Public Health England. So we have been able to make sure that our
00:18:37
Speaker
practical lived experience with parents actually has a channel back into some of the policy spaces and into the considerations about how the NHS continues to adapt as the pandemic evolves.
00:18:51
Speaker
Let's talk more about your campaigning work then. I know mental health has really been in the public spotlight recently. I mean, just this week, we've all seen the Meghan Markle interview with Oprah where she talks about her mental health struggles while she was pregnant. And on this topic, I know NCT research shows that only half of new mothers actually receive the mental health support and treatment that they need.
00:19:18
Speaker
So tell us about your hidden half campaign and what it has achieved. Yes, thank you for the opportunity to talk about that. So you're right, in 2017 we did a piece of research which I think was quite stark in that it showed us that, you know, up to half of new mothers' mental health
00:19:36
Speaker
needs or concerns went undetected or unsupported. And enshrined in our charitable purposes at NCT is consideration, not just for the physical health of mothers and new parents, but also the mental health. So it was there, you know, in our, in our founding ethos from the fifties. Quite extraordinary, isn't it? 2017. And here we had like one and two new mums tell us that this was not being properly cared for or supported.
00:20:07
Speaker
So we had a very powerful, we built an alliance across the country around this issue and it really was a real movement and we had great political engagement for it. And we were very purposeful in what we wanted because we wanted to invite
00:20:23
Speaker
the way that parents are supported through their GPs in those early weeks and months with a new baby, our direct ask was to instate a dedicated check for the well-being of the mother, not just for the baby.
00:20:39
Speaker
And that was our campaign ask.

Maternal Health Checks in GP Contracts

00:20:41
Speaker
And it was a great delight to me that just newly appointed last year in February, we learned that the GP contract was to be enhanced or amended to make this a universal offer for new mums.
00:20:57
Speaker
And of course it's a little bittersweet because you know having just heard that this was about to be you know enshrined in the GP contract then by March we're looking into the pandemic. So one year later we are actively out there again now wanting to hear from parents about you know have they been able to access their six eight week health check.
00:21:20
Speaker
And we're just poised to commission some new research. We're going to go out to a thousand new parents and ask them what their experience was and see, you know, is it starting to be an embedded part of the postnatal care? You know, is it patchy? Is it regional? Are there places where we need to continue to make the case for the support? And of course, that success was only in England. So we still have work to do in the other nations to continue to press for this issue.
00:21:48
Speaker
But again, I think it's surreal, the power of the movement. NCT has a great history in community organizing and movement building for change. This is an issue that really brought our movement together and really inspired other people to come alongside us and to work with us because it is, as you say, such a growing, visible
00:22:10
Speaker
And it's an area that we're increasingly confident to talk about and put a spotlight on and press for change.

Addressing Disparities for BAME Women

00:22:16
Speaker
It's always so empowering when you can see how your campaigning work has actually translated and impacted the lived experience of people that you're trying to help. So that's absolutely brilliant. So Angela, coming on to another important and potentially hot topic of race and inclusion.
00:22:36
Speaker
Embrace UK recently published a report that looked at maternal outcomes for black, Asian, and ethnic minority women. Looking at maternal mortality rates, the report shows that BAME women are four times more likely to die during childbirth or early postnatally than Caucasian or white women.
00:22:57
Speaker
And I think it's really interesting to see that when we also look at the COVID-19 pandemic, that these communities seem to be more affected and that pandemic death rates have really shown that you're more likely to die from COVID-19 if you are of Black, Asian, or ethnic minority heritage. And so coming back to maternal outcomes, the Embrace report talks about a constellation of biases that appear to be contributing factors to these outcomes.
00:23:25
Speaker
Can you explain what these are and how NCT is helping address some of these issues? I mean, again, I want to say thank you for the opportunity to put a spotlight on this because this is one of the top considerations for us as an organization. And as you say, COVID has only further amplified the starkness, you know, just how shocking this is. The Embrace report provides an annual
00:23:53
Speaker
take or audit in terms of maternal outcomes across a range of characteristics and considerations. But the pandemic, as you say, further exposed, just the inequality that exists and the numbers of BAME women, BAME pregnant women admitted to hospital with COVID is like eight times a fact, you know, that's the factor we're looking at. So it's really stark.
00:24:19
Speaker
And I think that it's something where, like so many organisations, we know that we have more to do in this space. So NCT is wholly committed to diversity and inclusion and to equity. And we are really doing a lot of critical thinking about what that means in terms of our services, in terms of the way we organise, in the way that we work.

Newham Project on Maternal Care Inequalities

00:24:42
Speaker
We have some really excellent work happening across different communities in the UK. And just in the last couple of months, we secured quite material funding from the Department of Health to scale and extend a project that we've been developing in Newham.
00:24:59
Speaker
over a number of years. Now, I don't know if you saw the FT article this weekend about the COVID triangle and a real exposition of a community like that, where you have just that constellation of biases. Exactly. Poverty, unemployment,
00:25:15
Speaker
poor housing, density of housing, communities, families of multiple occupation, you know. There's intergenerational households as well. Yes, intergenerational households, insecure labour markets, you start to layer these things on you. The population of key workers serving were affluent parts of the city living in very concentrated ways. There's the constellation of biases, public health concerns. And we have been working
00:25:40
Speaker
there for a number of years doing very, and that work takes time and it's, you know, it's deep, not building trust, building relationships, building connectivity with community groups. So we're really delighted now that we have secured the funding and the support to take that work further for another number of, I think, for the next three years and to work in really intricate ways with the community across anti-natal education, breastfeeding support, family link workers,
00:26:10
Speaker
building really strong relationships with grassroots groups, thinking about local campaign issues. So we certainly see that there's a lot more for us to do in that space, really working closely alongside community groups and learning from that and bringing that learning back into some of our more mainstream activity.
00:26:31
Speaker
But we're also active in this space in terms of our influencing and policy work. So I recently joined the Royal College of Ops and Gynecologists Race Equality Task Force. We are supporting birth rights, which is a campaigning organization who are initiating an inquiry into racial justice in maternal outcomes. So some of what we're trying to do at the moment is to bring our
00:27:01
Speaker
power, if you like, in our platform as a national charity to bear on other organizations inquiry into this space and to stand alongside them and to say, we agree with you. This is not acceptable.

Volunteering Growth Post-Pandemic

00:27:14
Speaker
These outcomes are shocking. This has to change. We stand ready to support. We want to learn. We want to really think critically about what more we can do as an organization in terms of the inclusiveness of our practice. And so it's a,
00:27:30
Speaker
It's a powerful call for us as an organisation at the moment and as we think about our focus post pandemic, I think it will continue to be a really key focus for us. It's such an incredibly important area for consideration for society more widely and certainly for policymakers as well.
00:27:50
Speaker
Talking more about really engaging with communities, I'd like to talk a bit about volunteering. You mentioned earlier that you had 650 new volunteers sign up, and I think NCT, correct me if I'm wrong, Angela, but you have over 6,000 volunteers. I think we've really seen such a groundswell of volunteering during the past year, whether it's buying groceries for your next-door neighbour or volunteering with
00:28:15
Speaker
the NHS or your food bank and certainly people on furlough offering their services to charities. I mean there have been so many opportunities for people to get involved with civil society and really tackle some of these issues that we see around inequality and other causes and concerns.
00:28:33
Speaker
What do you think the future of volunteering is going to look like from here on? That's such a good question, Divya, because we're asking exactly that question at NCT. This week we've launched a programme internally to invite our volunteer community to help us shape
00:28:52
Speaker
and to really have that conversation about what is the future of volunteering at NCT? What will it look like and how can we enable that? And I sit as part of a chief executives group with a range of other charities who also have huge volunteering communities within their work. And it's been just, again, one of the silver linings of the pandemic is to see just how
00:29:18
Speaker
What an intrinsic part of our civic society volunteering is and how people
00:29:26
Speaker
want to rise up and help and often help in a very hyper-local immediate way within their community. I think that's what's interesting, isn't it? That we don't have to conceive of volunteering as something that you sign up for and you get involved in your organizing committee and you make a two, three year commitment. And actually the pandemic showing that people can do it really fractionally. They can do it an hour a week. You know, if you run a walk and talk for us,
00:29:55
Speaker
I better not say it's an hour a week because I bet for the people involved, it's hours of planning and logistical. It can be very immediate and it can be very family friendly. Family volunteering is actually kind of a buzzword in our world and it's been something that we've
00:30:12
Speaker
always done, but it's starting to be part of that, if you like, that movement of how do you make volunteering? So getting the kids involved. Exactly. So I think what's incumbent upon us is to really think about what works for volunteers. How do they feel valued and celebrated? How do they feel like they're leading the charge rather than sort of responding to all of the directives that they might feel come from the head office?
00:30:39
Speaker
We want to really just empower volunteers on the ground to do what is right for the communities that they serve and their needs are very different.

Community Wellbeing through Volunteering

00:30:48
Speaker
You know, when I visited projects in Peterborough, what their communities need look very different to when I visited projects in Southampton. And those people know best and really for us.
00:30:58
Speaker
in terms of the national office, our job is to make sure that we can help people to do it well, safely, responsibly, just give them the tools, make it easy and then really value them and make them feel valued and celebrated. And so we've got a big conversation that we've started with our volunteers to say, because you know what, it's been so tough for them. Like if you're a really vibrant volunteering community and you run nearly new sales four times a year and you do big push and you get everybody out with their buggy in the park and
00:31:27
Speaker
You've got your bumps and baby's grip once or twice a week. I mean, there was grief for those grips. They weren't able to meet. The thing that was keeping them all, that was such an important part of their life and their community just had to go on hold.
00:31:41
Speaker
We're really reaching out to them. We don't want, we don't want to lose that community. You know, we want them to stay with us and we want to say, help us think about and shape what volunteering at NCT will be when hopefully we start to emerge from the pandemic. And how do we build on what we learned? What did the walk and talk show us? Well, actually what it showed us that some of the barriers that we used to put in place to volunteering, they don't need to be there.
00:32:07
Speaker
So it used to be that you had to be an NCT member to volunteer in a meaningful way with us. Well, really? No, we were able to build a movement of people to lead our walk and talk scripts and it was really agile. It was really responsive and quick. And I think that's showing us what more can we do to just break down the barriers to volunteering and make it really accessible, really family friendly. So I feel very, I mean, you can hear, I'm very excited about this. I really believe in the power of community organizing,
00:32:37
Speaker
getting involved in your local community. They're the people who know best.
00:32:42
Speaker
And as I say, our job is just to wrap around them the tools and the safety and the safeguarding so that they can do their great work really well. You're so right, Angela. And I think particularly in the current context, as many organisations are looking to recover and come through this year, which is likely to still be a tough recessionary environment, actually tapping into the power of volunteering and the power of local communities.
00:33:08
Speaker
and harnessing that through delivery of services or actually furthering your mission, but really engaging volunteers with that mission is going to be key in that success going forward. I think so.

Balancing Motherhood and Leadership

00:33:21
Speaker
And I think it would also be a contribution for societal wellbeing. When you come out the other side of this pandemic, there's going to be a deficit, isn't there, in terms of our wellbeing. And I can see in the groups and in the feedback
00:33:38
Speaker
the real positive uplift of people coming together and doing simple, lovely activities together, walking, talking, sharing a coffee, sharing experiences. Those things will be part of what will build the, if you like, the emotional fabric.
00:33:56
Speaker
of our communities when we're on the other side of the pandemic. So I think that's something that I'm passionate about us continuing to put a spotlight on is that volunteering is not just about labor, it's actually about a real powerful contribution to our well-being.
00:34:14
Speaker
It's what you alluded to earlier in terms of the lockdown really just having given us the opportunity to pause, take stock and reflect and have empathy for our fellow human beings or neighbours and actually have an engagement on a much more human to human level, but that is actually beneficial for everybody. I agree, wholeheartedly.
00:34:37
Speaker
Angela, before we finish, I'd really like to chat about your personal experiences as a leader, as a mother, because I know you had both of your children whilst in a chief executive role. And there has been so much focus recently through the brilliant campaigns by Jolie Brierley from pregnant then screwed on this issue of motherhood and the motherhood penalty, which I think is really important for us to look at as a society. I mean, I'm someone who believes
00:35:06
Speaker
really strongly that it should absolutely be possible to have a successful, rewarding career whilst also balancing having a family and a fulfilling family

Impact on Family and Role Modeling

00:35:17
Speaker
life. And I'd love to know how you personally navigated some of these challenges and do you have any tips or stories that you could share with us? Well, I was going to quite flippantly say that I don't require a lot of sleep.
00:35:31
Speaker
which has served me well. Four or five hours sleep has been part of the strategy, but no, I don't want to. Well, yes, if you listen to Arianna Huffington and everybody who really proponents of sleep being really key to productivity and wellbeing. Yes, exactly. I'm not advocating for that. I mean, I've really enjoyed
00:35:51
Speaker
and admired greatly the work that Pregnant then screwed are doing. And on a campaign level at NCT, we have been getting in behind and supporting a lot of the calls. They've been just tremendous in terms of their beating the drum for the rights of women and mothers and the return to the workplace throughout the pandemic. But I also want to reflect on the fact that I feel
00:36:16
Speaker
It's a real, I do genuinely feel it's a real privilege to be able to be both a parent and to have a job that I really care about and that I'm passionate about and that does so much good in the world. And so I think, I know I start from that. I know there's a, there's a narrative about the motherhood deficit, which I totally recognize, but I also like to think about the fact that it feels that there has been progress. I mean, my, my mother was a community organizer.
00:36:43
Speaker
She ran a playgroup in Northern Ireland for 16 years and she did it as a volunteer. And it partly pointed to the lack of childcare or any kind of like community childcare infrastructure that was just it was just absent. So she had to build it with other women in her community.
00:37:01
Speaker
If I look forward a generation, well, I haven't had to do that, but that doesn't mean that it's not still a struggle at times. I think we're on a journey. I think things are improving. I think we can't be complacent about campaigning for and saying that things can be better. I think we're at a dangerous point. I talked to my colleagues
00:37:22
Speaker
about this a lot. I mean NCT has a very significant female workforce and you can tell that the pandemic has just crystallized home working and home schooling and the expectations. The 11-hour day seems to be the norm. Well we can't normalize these things. That's not a sustainable strategy neither for family life nor for good healthy work life. So I definitely look forward to a time when the equilibrium starts to
00:37:51
Speaker
in the balance of our wellbeing starts to return. But as I say, I'm a perennial optimist. I feel joyful every day that I have the privilege of raising my kids.
00:38:03
Speaker
and having really lovely experiences with them, but also being able to be motivated and a good role model for them, I hope, by doing passionate work, work that I care about, work that I can

CEO Advice: Listening and Not Having All Answers

00:38:17
Speaker
see. I mean, one of the silver linings, I think, of the pandemic is to watch my children watching me work and to hear this conversation that that stimulates about, oh, Mummy, I heard you talking about
00:38:29
Speaker
X or Y or tell me about that. And so it's really, I can see it's stimulating a social curiosity in them, which I think is a good thing. So life is busy and it's full, but I think that that's how I like it. So. Yes. I was just reflecting on a story where my son the other day referred to me as a charity leader and he said, Oh mama, your job is the charity CEO podcast.
00:38:56
Speaker
And it's this hole where they are actually watching you being in the home and working and actually the impact that that has on them. And I think it's very important to be a role model and for them to see us as professional women and working mothers and being able to contribute to society more widely.
00:39:16
Speaker
I think that that is a great privilege that we have and I can see that. I can see the impact of that with my children and I think on the days when I struggle and I think have I given them enough of myself? Have I been present enough? Have I got the balance right?
00:39:32
Speaker
I do reflect on the fact that actually, that over time, their exposure to seeing the value of good work and the value of that search for balance, these are good things for kids to learn. I was just discussing with my colleagues the other day, each of us are observations of children being in close proximity to us as we work and what it's teaching them, the good and the bad. Yes.
00:40:02
Speaker
Well, I think it's encouraging them to be curious as well and to look at different opportunities and options. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's really interesting. I heard you interviewing someone else where you were saying like, what was your childhood aspiration? And I was thinking if you asked me that, I would have probably said something quite frivolous. But if I asked my children what they want to be when they grow up, I feel like they've got a real earnest sense of what they can do in the world, which is incredible.
00:40:30
Speaker
to right now my five-year-old son says he wants to be a YouTuber. That could be a very lucrative profession. Exactly. There's a myriad of these wonderful career opportunities opening up for them. Looking back at your own leadership journey then, Angela, what advice would you give to yourself on day one of first becoming a CEO?
00:40:53
Speaker
I think something that it took me a while to learn was to not feel like the responsibility to have the answers sat with me.

Wellbeing and Recovery in Charity Work

00:41:01
Speaker
And something that I practice every day, and I'm sure my team would say I fail most days, is that to develop this skill of active listening. Because there is a sense, isn't there, we have this impression that
00:41:18
Speaker
if you're the chief executive, you have to be out front and have the answers and lead the way and lead the charge. And actually when I came into NCT, my real commitment to myself was to spend months just listening and learning about really what was the beating heart of this charity? What was there in its DNA? How would it speak to me if I just listened? And I spent a number of months just going out on the road
00:41:46
Speaker
meeting the people who made up our charity, really hearing what they were passionate about. And I like to chat, as you can see, and I have to be quite disciplined. But I think that would be my advice to my younger self, which is, you know, don't feel like you have to be the person who comes up with all the answers, because actually, great chief executives, they're not the innovators.
00:42:11
Speaker
They might be the change makers but you know really it's about creating the conditions for the team to thrive and for the movement thrive.
00:42:19
Speaker
And I think showing a bit of humility is powerful in that space. I absolutely agree with you as chief execs. You know, we are just one person within the organization and our role is really to create the culture and the ethos and to have those big ideas, innovations, et cetera, come to the forefront and encourage expertise and excellence and try and hold that big picture vision that's connected to the mission that we're all driving forward towards.
00:42:47
Speaker
I think that's right. And that's the sort of like challenge I give myself every day is like, am I harnessing the best in my people? Because we've got amazing people, but NCT, incredible passion. We do these monthly webinars or, you know, Zooms will get all community get together online. And the passion and the discourse, it just, I come off those calls and I'm buzzing. And I think what more can I do to help this passionate community of people
00:43:14
Speaker
do their best in the world. So that's the job, I think. Yes, channelling that passion for good. So in closing now, Angela, do you have any final thoughts or reflections that you would like to share? I mean, what is one thing that you would like listeners to take away from this conversation? A lot of us at the moment, certainly within our organisation, the thing that we are really thinking deeply about is how we
00:43:42
Speaker
look after each other, how we make sure that people stay well. I think in our experience, this third lockdown has been the most, the closest to home, the hardest hitting. It's really having an impact, really having an impact on our colleagues and on our communities. And how do we hold onto that sense of recovery and rebuilding and what will that take? And how do we get the right balance of
00:44:06
Speaker
the structural things that we need to do, but also the compassion that we need to show. And so I have very much valued some of my peers in the charity sector. I mean, I know a number of your other guests talked about this and I've felt
00:44:23
Speaker
deep camaraderie and support from other charity leaders.

Reflecting on Parenthood and NCT's Impact

00:44:27
Speaker
And one of the things that has been really interesting is to watch that in recent months, the discourse amongst charity leadership is very much in the space about wellbeing and inclusion and making our way through to recovery. That's where I'll be spending a lot of my time.
00:44:44
Speaker
in the weeks and months ahead as we think about going into the new financial year and really thinking about are we now on the route back out of lockdown and how do we keep ensuring that our workforce, our practitioners out in the field, our volunteers, our parents, that they have sufficient support for their wellbeing, first and foremost. Because I think if people are well, they're going to thrive. That's where my pondering time takes me at the moment.
00:45:13
Speaker
Thank you, Angela. It's been so great chatting with you today. Thank you for being a guest on the show. Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me.
00:45:24
Speaker
Having a baby is such an incredibly special time, but it can also be incredibly daunting and scary. This miraculous being, or two if you've had twins, has just arrived in your life and nothing is ever the same again. As I think back to my first year as a new mother, my NCT group was invaluable in providing support and resources.
00:45:45
Speaker
and just the sheer comfort of having that shared experience and being able to share the absolute thrills and delights as well as the real lows of parenthood was so needed in those early days. I am so pleased to hear that during the pandemic the NCT charity was able to continue its important work supporting new parents and I'm sure it will continue to do so for many generations to come.
00:46:11
Speaker
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00:46:37
Speaker
Visit our website thecharityceo.com for full show details and to submit suggestions or questions for future guests. Thank you for listening.