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Ep 36. Jean-Michel Grand, CEO Action Against Hunger UK: No child should die of hunger!
59 Plays2 years ago
“No child should die from hunger… we have the treatment… this treatment has 95% cure rate… and (yet) only 20% of the severely malnourished children in the world have access to this (life-saving) treatment”
In a world where enough food is produced to feed everyone on earth, how is it that nearly 3 billion people - over a third of the world’s population - can’t get the food that they need to survive!
Jean-Michel Grand, CEO of Action Against Hunger UK, shares his views on what is driving this global humanitarian crisis of hunger and what action needs to be taken to resolve it.
We talk about crises in Africa, Pakistan, Ukraine and also Action Against Hunger’s programmes right here in the UK, developed in response to an increase in food poverty and food insecurity for millions of UK households.
Jean-Michel lays down the challenge to the UK’s newly elected Prime Minister to put the UK’s international aid spending back up to 0.7% and to reclaim Britain’s position of influence on the global stage.
He also shares some powerful leadership lessons learned over 20 years of being a CEO.
Recorded September 2022.
Guest Biography Jean-Michel Grand has been the CEO of Action Against Hunger UK since 2003.
He started his career in the humanitarian sector in 1994, as a logistician during the Bosnian war where he worked for two years before being deployed to mostly conflict and drought related humanitarian crises. He spent the subsequent six years in Chechnya, Myanmar, Tajikistan, Malawi and Zimbabwe, working for Action Against Hunger.
Jean-Michel represents Action Against Hunger UK on the International Executive Committee of the organisation’s International Network (which is present in over 50 countries). He was a Board member of VOICE, the network of European Humanitarian NGOs and is currently part of the DEC (Disasters Emergency Committee) Board, as an agency member. He has also been part of the CEOs' “Sounding board” on effective management hosted by Bain and Company since 2006, and is a Director of ACFIN trademark licensing company.
Over the past three decades, Jean-Michel has dedicated most of his efforts to addressing child undernutrition around the world and helping populations affected by humanitarian crises.
Links
https://www.actionagainsthunger.org.uk/
In a world where enough food is produced to feed everyone on earth, how is it that nearly 3 billion people - over a third of the world’s population - can’t get the food that they need to survive!
Jean-Michel Grand, CEO of Action Against Hunger UK, shares his views on what is driving this global humanitarian crisis of hunger and what action needs to be taken to resolve it.
We talk about crises in Africa, Pakistan, Ukraine and also Action Against Hunger’s programmes right here in the UK, developed in response to an increase in food poverty and food insecurity for millions of UK households.
Jean-Michel lays down the challenge to the UK’s newly elected Prime Minister to put the UK’s international aid spending back up to 0.7% and to reclaim Britain’s position of influence on the global stage.
He also shares some powerful leadership lessons learned over 20 years of being a CEO.
Recorded September 2022.
Guest Biography Jean-Michel Grand has been the CEO of Action Against Hunger UK since 2003.
He started his career in the humanitarian sector in 1994, as a logistician during the Bosnian war where he worked for two years before being deployed to mostly conflict and drought related humanitarian crises. He spent the subsequent six years in Chechnya, Myanmar, Tajikistan, Malawi and Zimbabwe, working for Action Against Hunger.
Jean-Michel represents Action Against Hunger UK on the International Executive Committee of the organisation’s International Network (which is present in over 50 countries). He was a Board member of VOICE, the network of European Humanitarian NGOs and is currently part of the DEC (Disasters Emergency Committee) Board, as an agency member. He has also been part of the CEOs' “Sounding board” on effective management hosted by Bain and Company since 2006, and is a Director of ACFIN trademark licensing company.
Over the past three decades, Jean-Michel has dedicated most of his efforts to addressing child undernutrition around the world and helping populations affected by humanitarian crises.
Links
https://www.actionagainsthunger.org.uk/
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Transcript
Global Food Access and Waste
00:00:00
Speaker
There is enough food produced in the world for everybody. Unfortunately, most or many people do not have access to this food. We need to rethink our agri-food system, radio greater focus on access to nutritious food.
00:00:16
Speaker
Today, all what we hear, or there is a food crisis, we need to increase production. No, it's not. It is about access, sharing, inequalities. That's not about producing more and more and more when we are wasting 40% of the food produced in the world.
Season 4 Introduction and Host Acknowledgement
00:00:43
Speaker
Welcome to season four of the Charity CEO podcast, the podcast for charity leaders by charity leaders, bringing you inspirational and meaningful conversations with leaders who are driving change in the nonprofit space. I'm truly delighted and humbled that the show has been named in the Charity Times top 10 charity podcasts for 2022. Thank you all for that incredible endorsement. I'm Divya O'Connor, and here's the show.
00:01:11
Speaker
no child should die of hunger. In a world where enough food is produced to feed everyone on earth, how is it that nearly 3 billion people over a third of the world's population can't get the food that they need to survive? In this episode Jean-Michel Giron, CEO of Action Against Hunger UK, shares his views on what is driving this global humanitarian crisis of hunger and what action needs to be taken to resolve
Interview with Jean-Michel Giron: Global Hunger and Crises
00:01:35
Speaker
it.
00:01:35
Speaker
We talk about crises in Africa, Pakistan, Ukraine, and also action against hunger's programs right here in the UK, developed in response to an increase in food poverty and food insecurity for millions of UK households. Jean-Michel shares some powerful leadership lessons learned over 20 years of being a CEO, and he lays down the challenge to the UK's newly elected Prime Minister to put the UK's international aid spending back up to 0.7%,
00:02:02
Speaker
and to reclaim Britain's position of influence on the global stage. It's truly a fascinating conversation. You're going
Jean-Michel's Humanitarian Journey
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Speaker
to love it.
00:02:21
Speaker
Well, now, Jean-Michel, you have the honour of being the first Frenchman to be a guest on this show, and I might just have one or two questions related to that in our icebreaker section, if that's okay. Yeah, what on earth? So, question one, what was your first job? My first job was in
Influences on Jean-Michel's Values
00:02:41
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the human Italian sector, so 28 years ago.
00:02:47
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Interestingly I was supposed to be an history teacher and I remember perfectly the summer where I received my first assignment as a teacher but at the same time life created an opportunity where I was offered to go to Bosnia and literally
00:03:08
Speaker
It came out of nowhere. I never had any plan to join the sector and never apply. But there was this life opportunity
Adaptability in Humanitarian Work
00:03:16
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and a family friend asked me in the conversation, he said, do you want to go to Bosnia? Now, immediately, I didn't have choice too much. It was not, oh, can you think about it and come back? So within three weeks, my life completely changed, turned down the offer to be a teacher, therefore ending my potential career in education.
00:03:38
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And then three weeks later, on the road to Croatia and Bosnia, to be a convoy leader, a big name, but basically it means I was driving a former British Army Land Rover painted it white and opening the road for lorries of humanitarian assistance. So clearing the custom between Croatia and Bosnia.
00:04:03
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negotiating access through the multiple checkpoints and going in, opening
Social Class and Charity Culture in UK vs. France
00:04:09
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the road through the forest, try to avoid the front lines at the time, and providing food and logistics to our truck drivers who were probably at least 20 years older than me. So it was quite an interesting experience for me and first job, yes, in the European sector and I've been in the sector for 28 years now.
00:04:32
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Wow, and as they say, the rest is history. So, question two. Tell us about your favourite book or a book that had a big impact on you. I'm a fervent reader, so I'm reading every single night or evenings and
00:04:47
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It's a routine that I have and I'm trying not to read any work-related reports or books. So I have many favorite authors from Hugo of Victor Hugo
Leadership and Humility: Interview with Jose Pepe Morica
00:04:59
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to Gabrielle Garson Marquez to historic novelists like I love Lindsay Davies or Cisina Gregory. But there is one author in particular
00:05:09
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We influence my early thinking and education, especially on the values which have been driving my behavior since. It's an article I'm in Malouf, and it's a novelist and an intellectual. I think it's both French and Lebanese.
00:05:25
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He wrote a book which is mostly novels, but there was a particular book that he wrote called The Desert World. It was a post-9-11 reflection on the future and where we were going. He wrote something along the lines that
00:05:44
Speaker
There are no human rights for Europe, and then human rights for Asia, and then different human rights for Africa, or human rights for the Muslim world. It's that nobody
Vision for a World Without Hunger
00:05:54
Speaker
in this world has been made for slavery, tyranny, or ignorance. And it was saying something like, whenever we neglect this truth, this beggar's choice,
00:06:07
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we are betraying humanity and ourselves. And the world that respects diversity is a world that is moving forward and progress for having better. And I found that, that always kept that in my mind and it's really helped me to shape my thinking based on the eight years that I did in the various countries in conflict. So that was an author that I have huge respect for.
00:06:36
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I love that line that you quoted there, Jean-Michel, in terms of a world that respects diversity is one that is going to move forward and essentially be better. Question three, what would you say is your professional superpower?
00:06:50
Speaker
Adaptability, the world around us is changing very, very quickly and we are facing multiple challenges that it is not possible to plan for every eventualities. It might be in the past where we had strategy based on scenarios that were more or less predictable and there was kind of a linear growth for
00:07:13
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drive. Now we need to cope with high volatility and therefore our strategic thinking should be a continuous process and which
Drivers of Global Hunger
00:07:25
Speaker
means a living dynamic approach and multiple
00:07:30
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adjustment, constant adjustment. So over the last 20 years as CEO, I went through some very major crisis that required drastic decisions. I have no fear of change, no fear of taking big decisions, but also of changing my opinions. And I think the main lesson that I learned from this crisis
00:07:54
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where that agility is now critical to navigate these challenges. And we can see today, even these last two years, for us, between the obvious, the COVID, but then also the reduction of the international aid budget from 0.7% to 0.5%, absorption of the FID by the foreign office,
00:08:19
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post-COVID, ways of working, et cetera, and now inflation, cost of living, massive humanitarian crises. And we will come back later on that, I hope, but I'm sure the increasing number of people being hungry in the world. So all that have a direct effect on the organization, and we need to be very, very agile to be relevant and at value.
00:08:42
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And continuing the theme of adaptability, question four is Jean-Michel, from the perspective of a Frenchman who has lived in the UK for the past 20 years, tell us three differences and
Nutritious Food Access and Agroecology
00:08:55
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perhaps also three similarities that you see between France and Britain.
00:08:58
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I was indeed born in France and there is no doubt, as you can hear with my accent. However, I've lived more of my adult life in the UK than in France and I even became a British citizen a few years ago.
00:09:14
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And so I don't want to perpetuate stereotypes. There's three aspects of the British society that I will say has struck me when I arrive and even today and I have a lot of respect for that. First of all is a social structure and how people seem sometimes obsessed with social class and
00:09:34
Speaker
classes and asking questions about, or your job, which school you're coming from, as if trying to define who you are by associating you with a class, putting you in a box. And I think that's the structure of the Parliament with a House of Lords and Commons, this title, Lord Damned Sir, which is very uncommon for us and obviously the British monarchy.
00:09:58
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all contributing to this structure, and I have a lot of respect for Magisti the Queen, and she's a fantastic, impressive leader. But it's something that is obviously completely different from France, and I don't say for the worst or the best, but this is clearly a distinction. The second is French are going to the streets when they are not happy.
UK's Role in International Aid
00:10:21
Speaker
And I think that we are well known for that. It's happened quite on the street. And I think that here, despite the fact that there are some strikes time to time here and there, and we have seen recently with the train, and people have different ways to express themselves. And I think that it's quite interesting to see how first the French succeeded to get a lot of social benefit because of that going to the streets.
00:10:49
Speaker
But it comes at cost, so we can argue and we are not here to argue about the poor and the cons of what they succeeded to get. But then what clearly this movement have, they have shaped the way the society and the government is acting. And the French government today still fear social movement.
00:11:12
Speaker
And I don't feel that's the same relationship between the British government and the British people. And here again, it's not a question of judgment on which one is the best, but you asked me about the difference. And finally, the third one is more with the charity. I think that my son went here to school in the UK and immediately what I was very, very pleased to see is how charity
00:11:35
Speaker
is ingrained into the society, the culture from the very, very youngest age at school. So it may have changed a little bit in France, but
Addressing Colonial Legacy in Charity Sector
00:11:44
Speaker
at my time and when I was school, I didn't hear about charity work before maybe the age of 20. So I was very, very
00:11:53
Speaker
pleased and surprised, but happily surprised to see. For example, my son, he was part of the charity committee in his school. He had to pick up which charity and the non-uniform day, et cetera. And I think as a result, the British charities have been the most influential and transformative charities in the world. And that's why I'm a bit surprised, and he has more back to business. I'm very surprised to see that British charities have not been given
00:12:21
Speaker
an immediate role in the promotion of global Britain, when I think that they are best ambassadors of the British values of generosity or compassion, but at the same time it probably does not help with creating business opportunities for British film. So, overall, to finish, I think that
00:12:40
Speaker
It's still important to keep in mind that for the vast majority of people living in villages in Asia, in Africa, in South America, there are not so many differences between French and British. We are Westerners. But diversity is great and I think should be celebrated. So we should celebrate our differences and not try to be the same.
00:13:04
Speaker
Yes, it's so fascinating, and I know we're going to come on to talk about global Britain a little bit later, but our final icebreaker then,
DEC's Appeal Criteria and Media Impact
00:13:11
Speaker
Jean-Michel, if you had the opportunity to interview anyone in the world, dead or alive, who would it be and what one question would you like to ask them? And I wonder if you're going to choose somebody who is ready to. No, I'm going to go for an Uruguayan.
00:13:28
Speaker
for the legendary Jose Pepe Morica. He was a president of Uruguay from 2010 to 2015, I think. And he's often described as the world omblest aid of states. He used to give 90% of his salary to charities. He had almost no assets.
00:13:50
Speaker
and riding his old bicycle and et cetera. And it was a very inspiring, but not very well known in Europe, but definitely in Spain and Latin America. And the question I will ask him is, has humility helping to be a better leader and how he managed to keep this humility when he was one of the most powerful person in the country? Wow, I love that. Did humility help him become a better leader?
00:14:20
Speaker
Such an interesting question. So Jean-Michel, you are the long-standing CEO of Action Against Hunger UK. I understand that you have been involved with the organisation for about 25 years. Tell us about its vision and mission.
00:14:34
Speaker
Yes. As you said, 25 years is also a statement of how passionate I am about this organization.
Food Poverty in the UK and Action Against Hunger
00:14:42
Speaker
And the vision is quite simple and it's almost, it is written in our name. It's a world without hunger. We refer to life frightening hunger, famines, starvation, food crisis, malnutrition, especially
00:14:58
Speaker
with children under five years old. We are doing a lot of focus of our technical approach on these children and especially the first 1000 days between conception and the child's second birthday, because it's a moment where a new human being, let's say, is building his immune system, which is going to ensure kind of a healthy life and intellectual development. So it's very critical
00:15:25
Speaker
So to simplify and not going on too long, I think as an organization, we work on three areas of hunger, the predict, the prevention, and the treatment of severe malnutrition. And so the predict is all about how can we anticipate potential crisis and having early warning system that can spot a potential crisis. And we use satellite, for example, in the Sahel region,
00:15:53
Speaker
looking at the biomass to try to detect pasture or crop or water shortfalls. The second is the prevention, trying to understand in every context and villages and the economy of the families what are the main drivers of hunger, what are the causes and how can we help to mitigate them or address them through agriculture or income generating activities or
00:16:20
Speaker
better in feeding practices, access to water, clean water or health care. So a wide range of activities that we are adapting to the needs and the situation.
00:16:34
Speaker
And finally, the treatment of severely malnourished children. And that's an area
Leadership Lessons from Jean-Michel's Career
00:16:40
Speaker
of a specialty for the organization. So we are well known in the sector for our specialization in the treatment of severely malnourished children for the last.
00:16:52
Speaker
40 years. On the treatment of severely malnourished, to put in context, we are providing as a network treatment to over 600,000 children on the five years of every year through our different partners and Ministry of Health. So as I spoke, and I will finish on that, as I spoke about network,
00:17:13
Speaker
We are part of an action against like an international network with seven members, but we are working 50 countries, more or less, or 8,000 staff. So it's quite a large organization, mostly national staff and helping around 26 million people every year.
00:17:32
Speaker
Jean-Michel, I'd love to understand a bit more about the scale and the context of this global problem. We have enough food for everyone on the planet, and yet nearly 3 billion people can't get the food that they need. A recent report by the United Nations, the UN Hunger Report, shows that 150 million more people are affected by hunger today than before the COVID-19 pandemic. You touched upon the drivers of hunger,
00:18:00
Speaker
as you were talking there, what do you think is really driving this problem on such a global scale
Teamwork and Leadership Dynamics
00:18:05
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and what action needs to be taken to resolve it?
00:18:08
Speaker
You're absolutely right to say a clear statement. There is enough food produced in the world for everybody. Unfortunately, most or many people do not have access to this food. So it's highlighting clear inequalities, first of all, in accessing food. The main drivers and the first one, probably obvious, but war, conflict.
00:18:35
Speaker
are the biggest cause of hunger in the world today. And while starving civilians and destroying hospitals and using hunger as a weapon is a criminal act, recognized by the UN Security Council. But there is absolutely no accountability today, and Britain is done really on that.
00:18:56
Speaker
So that's the first one, war conflict violence, the main driver destroying, driving people out of their country. The second one, climate change, rising temperature, extreme weather have a huge impact on people's livelihood and capacity to produce or to work. And especially those living in a very tough place.
00:19:18
Speaker
The situation in the Sahel region, so that's this desert area from Mauritania to Sudan across North Africa, is extremely worrying. The future, we are predicting a very, very serious situation and food crisis in the future there.
00:19:36
Speaker
The third one is, as I mentioned, inequalities is extreme poverty. So extreme poverty fueled by rising inequalities and especially gender inequalities. So it means that the vast number of people, they cannot afford to buy or to produce their own food and
Episode Conclusion and Key Takeaways
00:19:52
Speaker
nutritious food. So that's the third one. And I think the fourth one is also the lack of access to the very basic services, health care, clean water, education,
00:20:05
Speaker
leading many young children to become sick and malnourished. So we are these four main drivers. They vary obviously from context to context and country to country, but as a result, when there is an accelerator crisis like the COVID, COVID has exacerbated some of these drivers.
00:20:30
Speaker
and creating this situation and we have seen now with Ukraine, the conflict of Ukraine has increased the price and therefore less access for the poor and extreme poor access to food.
00:20:44
Speaker
A very worrying situation, and definitely the world is not on track to achieve the sustainable development goal of zero hunger by 2030. We are going backwards. I'm afraid that if drastic actions are not taken, it's going to be a mirage to think that we are going to be even close to the zero hunger.
00:21:05
Speaker
What to be done, obviously there is plenty, but three or four points, I think. First of all, first thing first, we spoke about severe malnutrition. No child should die off from hunger. That's the first thing is that we have the treatment. This treatment has 95% cure rate. It costs 50 quid, 50 pounds. Is it too expensive?
00:21:29
Speaker
No, because today the main problem we have is not about the treatment of these children, it's about how these children have access to the treatment. And only 20% of the severely malnourished children in the world have access. So that's number one, first thing, saving life. The second one is...
00:21:48
Speaker
The United Nations Security Council is failing the world population again and again. Its primary responsibility was to maintain security and peace.
00:22:00
Speaker
But now most of its members are involved in conflict. Not only they are involved, but they are also preventing conflict to be sorted out to find a solution. There is clearly a major reform that has to be taken on the Security Council. And look at the accountability. It's like the 180 states in the world are accountable to the Security Council rather than the other way around.
00:22:29
Speaker
the five most powerful countries should be accountable to the rest. There is definitely something wrong, not in the intention, but in the way that the Security Council is completely dysfunctioning.
00:22:42
Speaker
The other one is about we need to rethink our agri-food system, really a greater focus on access to nutritious food. Today, all what we hear, or there is a food crisis, we need to increase production.
00:22:59
Speaker
No, it's not. It is about access, sharing inequalities. That's not about producing more and more and more when we are wasting 40% of the food produced in the world. They are a cleverest way to work and to address that. And clearly, there should be more priority to local food production, food sovereignty, agroecology. I mean, the concept that feeding all people financial profitability and
00:23:28
Speaker
environment and protection of the environment, they are not mutually exclusive. And I think that we need to find solution and having a rethink of our agri-food system when the three of them can coexist and complement each other. And lastly, is that we need to stop to have this big announcement from government or the G7 and Trumpeting
00:23:51
Speaker
There is new initiative, saving the world, big commitment, that there will be 500 million people saved or out of insecurity by 2030. Let's have less commitment, but let's have this government be accountable and just do what they say they will do.
00:24:13
Speaker
Yes, and talking about government, just this week, Liz Trost has been newly elected as the Prime Minister for the UK. And when she was Foreign Secretary, she of course committed in her international development strategy to step up the UK's humanitarian assistance and really get aid to those who need it most. You mentioned earlier about the global Britain and Britain's influence on the world stage.
00:24:37
Speaker
What would you like to see from the new UK government? And if you had a message for Liz Trust right now, what would that be? First of all, put the UK back on a clear path to spending 0.7% of the gross national income on development, sorry, international development.
00:24:57
Speaker
so that we can go back to an investment on cost-effective action to prevent famine and other. It's 0.7%. If we turn around, it's to say that for the moment we are spending, schematically, 99.3%
00:25:13
Speaker
on UK and 0.7% on the rest of the world. So if we put in perspective 0.5% or 0.7%, which still is £5 billion which disappear last year or the year before, that's a massive cut on the very small budget. So the first thing is let's have a clear path back to spending 0.7%.
00:25:37
Speaker
Second is to put the climate change action on the top of the government agenda. So the low carbon energy is not only a way for the UK to address the energy crisis, so very interested to see what's going to be the measure announced by the government in terms of the energy, but it's also essential for limiting the future United crisis.
00:26:00
Speaker
look today at drought in East Africa, the flood in Pakistan. So climate change is clearly a top priority and it's not even any more climate change, it's climate emergency. That's how we should call it.
00:26:18
Speaker
The next one will be, as I just mentioned previously, the UK should show leadership in fulfilling or implementing what they have committed or what the G7 has committed. For example, last year they committed to what they call a famine prevention, a human crisis compact, a long title. It includes a commitment to act earlier
00:26:41
Speaker
and early when there is a crisis to try to avoid and prevent food crisis or human crisis to escalate and become worse. So just focus on less, but just deliver and show leadership. And lastly, you mentioned global Britain.
00:27:00
Speaker
We need to reconnect the FCDO with the British NGOs. That's here. It's my perception. I don't want to speak on behalf of the... When I say British NGOs, it's overseas NGOs, the organization working overseas.
00:27:17
Speaker
I think that there is so much that the British NGOs can do in the implementation of the government strategy, international development strategy. And they are the best ambassador of the values. And they would be a very, very, I think, efficient investment, a good investment in maintaining the so-called Great Britain
00:27:37
Speaker
global standing. But today, I'm afraid to say that here again, my perception based on the direction and what we have seen over the last two years, since the absorption of the FID by FCDO is that British NGOs are marginalized. Yes, consulted, doesn't really cost too much to ask advice and organize a meeting.
00:28:00
Speaker
But when it's about delivering concrete projects, the FCDO prefer international institutions rather than British NGOs. And I think there is something wrong here when the British population cities are so generous towards the charities. But this generosity, this relationship is not mirror at government level. So there is something that needs to be addressed.
00:28:28
Speaker
I wonder, Jean-Michel, if you could just continue that line of thinking in terms of the transference of power from the global north to the global south. And what are your thoughts on something that's often talked about in the international aid sector, which is of decolonization?
00:28:45
Speaker
First of all, colonization is a shameful moment of the history of our countries. And in the charity sector, and I hope in most of the population, we are deeply ashamed of that, but we never really confronted it. It took the killing of Charles Floyd in 2020 for many charities and large part of the society to stand up and start to, let's say, undo colonialism.
00:29:12
Speaker
Today, the path, the direction is about to try to see how we can address some of the legacy of colonization and colonialism. And it starts by the mindset of people and the mindset on racism, sexism, on power, on habits of power. And I think that colonialism was also
00:29:33
Speaker
base or built on the idea that white Western people, they know more how to fix another country issue more than their own population. And that's really the crux of the problem, isn't it? Exactly. I would say, indeed, we are working in 51 countries and we are still in a journey. And I think I will not pretend that we are today where we should be.
00:30:02
Speaker
but clearly there is a commitment and a willingness at every level within the organization to do better.
00:30:12
Speaker
And it started by fighting this mindset and behaviors. So fighting all form of racism or abuse of power, having very strong ethics and really translate these policies or ethics into behavior with all the mechanisms that we should put in place in terms of preventing reporting or and addressing abuses. So that's the first one, the zero tolerance on any form of abuse. The second promotes diversity and inclusion.
00:30:42
Speaker
It started, for example, many of our so-called expatriates, international staff that we are sending in these 51 countries,
00:30:53
Speaker
Many of them, and especially over the last 10 years, they are not any more from the West. They are mostly, for us, for example, in the UK, we have 80 or around 80 international staff recruited, as we have said. I don't think we have less. We have more than 5% to 10% of white Europeans in that.
00:31:15
Speaker
still a lot of progress to make in diversity, especially at a quarter level and in senior leadership. That's really too, as well as boardmen, board level. So that's still an area that we want.
00:31:30
Speaker
And the last one I wanted to mention on that, how we can concretely translate this ambition on decolonization. It's about how we are transferring power, especially of decision-making to the communities where we are working. So our first step is about what we call in our sector, the localization, is that we are helping or transferring
00:31:58
Speaker
implementation of our activities or working more with local partners, full local partners, local clinics, local governments. But more importantly, for me, it's about how we are engaging with community-based organizations. It's about being closer to the communities themselves.
00:32:20
Speaker
get population in the decision-making process is what is for me today at stake. We have launched a two-year study just six months ago, trying to go into the details about how action against Sangha we are involving communities into the program cycle
00:32:44
Speaker
I think that we do a lot of consultation, groups meeting, asking people what are their needs, analysis of data, et cetera. There is good participation of community on that. But what we want to see is what are the evidence that we have that they are in the decision-making process and who is really deciding about what is good for them.
00:33:08
Speaker
and what type of activities. And I think that that's what we want to test because a fear is that when it's about decision making, the participation and the transfer of power is less. And that's an area that we want to assess in detail in order to take measures. And I think when this transfer
00:33:32
Speaker
of decision-making will be achieved, I think that will be a massive step forward in a good direction. And I remember when I was in Chechnya some 20 years ago, we had this approach, we came to the communities living in the mountains and we're saying, okay, we have a list of beneficiaries and of criteria for who should be
00:33:53
Speaker
the people who are going to benefit from food distribution that we were doing at that time. So we came, this list, discussed with the leaders, et cetera, they say yes, blah, blah, blah. Then we came back a few weeks later asking that, okay, have you identified the people? And they say, you know what? No, it's shared between everybody equally because we have discussed with the community and the people in the village, and that's what they want.
00:34:21
Speaker
So either you agree or you don't distribute. Wow. So they were crystal clear and Chechen when they want something clear, the message is very clear. So it was a non-negotiable and fair enough. And I think that we accepted and we went and we did what the community wanted.
00:34:40
Speaker
It went very, very well and we continue this relationship for many years. After that, it's a process of trust and then seeing how we can both organization and manage not only what they want, but also after that, how we'd negotiate with our donors about the compliance and et cetera. And so we are, I think NGOs today should be a bridge in the middle between communities.
00:35:06
Speaker
It's still a journey, and let's be honest, we are only at the very beginning of this journey. Yes, it's such a fascinating area of conversation and discussion. But Michelle, coming back to talking about climate change or climate emergency, as you rightly called it, I know that you sit on the board of the DEC, the Disasters Emergency Committee, which has just launched its appeal for the victims of the floods in Pakistan, and it's
00:35:32
Speaker
incredibly devastating to think that one-third of Pakistan is currently underwater. I mean, that is the landmass about the size of the whole of the UK. It's just devastating. The third sector publication reported yesterday that over 16 million pounds has been raised in five days for the DC Pakistan Floods Appeal, which includes 5 million match funding from the UK government, which is excellent.
00:35:56
Speaker
But what actually caught my eye was the very last line of that article, which stated that the DEC's humanitarian appeal for Ukraine, following Russia's invasion of the country earlier this year, actually raised 100 million in its first five days. And I hope this isn't too controversial a question, but I'd really like to understand why the difference. And in your experience, what is it that makes one appeal perform significantly more in terms of monies raised than another?
00:36:27
Speaker
That's an excellent question that we are, I think, struggling with. First of all, and I will come back to your question about the difference between appeal.
00:36:37
Speaker
Also, as a DEC, we have been discussing a lot about the situation in the Horn of Africa, which there was a report just two days ago on the scale and the risk of famine on two districts in Somalia, but we have not launched an appeal as a DEC. There are three criteria that the DEC is looking at to take a decision. The scale of the needs,
00:37:02
Speaker
The ability of the members of the DEC, so the 15 NGOs, to respond adequately. And the third one, will the public support the appeal? And to get the public on board, we need the media. And what is the media coverage? And the broadcasters. Often criteria one and two are met, but the criteria three is the most critical. So we have, indeed, situation where we had had a fantastic response for the Ukraine appeal.
00:37:31
Speaker
good response so far but obviously less for the Pakistan floods and no appeal for the Horn of Africa. Why people are responding to an appeal or not or why the major are covering because the two are linked
00:37:48
Speaker
It means the more it is on the news, the more people are going to know about a crisis are likely to feel some compassion and willing to help. So the coverage of a crisis is a critical element in the making and why people are responding or not.
00:38:08
Speaker
Then after that, I mean, it's donating to or responding to an emergency appeal or you might in situation is often the results of emotions. So people have to feel emotionally or.
00:38:21
Speaker
They have to fill a link, something which appealed to them personally. And I think in Ukraine, the proximity was, I think, a major element. No major coverage when it's every single day in the news for weeks and weeks and months. But it was the proximity. It means that it could happen.
00:38:44
Speaker
to Britain tomorrow. So I think that there was an element of proximity of fear and obviously association in the way that Ukrainians, ways of living, they are Europeans, so they are very close to the British. As I mentioned, in the scale of the world, the diversity of the world,
00:39:03
Speaker
Ukrainian and the British lifestyle are quite close. So there was definitely an association of the fee and sharing the fee and then having Ukrainian coming in mass in the country, in Europe, seeing people coming. Pakistan is also interesting because there is a very strong Pakistani community.
00:39:23
Speaker
in the UK and I think that they are very good spokesperson for what's happening in Pakistan. So raising their awareness and I think that's also why an appeal was launched for Pakistan is that there was really a lot of voices around. Now indeed East Africa is a bit sad in the way that
00:39:47
Speaker
How we can make this link and try to raise awareness is something that we are working can guarantee we have so many discussion about how can we raise the awareness and trying to bring the situation in East Africa to the public.
00:40:05
Speaker
there is less direct link between the British society and Somalia or Ethiopia or Kenya. And I think that we hope it's not going to be the case, but if famine is developing in East Africa, that's probably when there will be major coverage and when there will be mobilization because they are connected after that.
00:40:33
Speaker
So it's always very difficult. There are so many crises in the world that we would like to have to raise and launch a DC appeal. But let's not forget that if we do too many appeals, it's going to lose its interest.
00:40:48
Speaker
We joined, I should say, we joined the DEC 2018, so four years ago. It's such a fantastic group of people, a mechanism of fundraising, very professional, very... But the trust that the British people have in the DEC, all the institutions trust the DEC for what they are doing and the quality and the seriousness. And I think that this is extremely valuable.
00:41:17
Speaker
it is in some extent very unfair how we can address that we are trying to find ways as members of the dc but find ways to raise awareness on the side i would say outside of the dc appeal just to make the system a bit fairer but it's not perfect that's clear
00:41:38
Speaker
Indeed. And Jean-Michel, I know we've been talking about crises in countries like Pakistan and Africa and Ukraine, but right here in the UK, we're certainly not exempt from the impact of all of these manmade conflicts or natural disasters. Indeed. Tell us about the impact that you are seeing right here in the UK.
00:41:57
Speaker
from things like the conflict in Ukraine and Russia, climate change and the cost of living crisis, specifically on food poverty and food insecurity in the UK. And how has Action Against Hunger UK responded to this need here? First of all, as you can imagine, Action Against Hunger works primarily in fragile states.
00:42:17
Speaker
where governments are weak or where public services are not existing and there is economic crises, refugees, et cetera. However, we are an organization driven by the needs. So the needs are the main criteria that we are looking at. And in 2020 with the COVID, we started to be extremely worried about the impact of the measures taken to mitigate the spread of the pandemic
00:42:45
Speaker
and how it's led to a rapid rise of food poverty in the UK. So we decided to look at the situation into more detail and to see what could be the added value that our organization could do in the UK. So there is an extensive network on food banks.
00:43:04
Speaker
And we decided that we don't see any value for us to add to the food bank. So we decided to focus on working with existing partners on food pantries. It's called food pantries in other areas. It's social supermarket. I think there are several names across the UK. The concept is quite simple.
00:43:24
Speaker
As people with low revenue become a member for food pantry, they contribute with kind of membership fee. It can be £2, £3. But in return, they can choose every month the equivalent of around £30 of food. We like this system and we have been supporting food pantries across the UK at very small scale for the moment. But in Leewisham here, in Manchester, in Birmingham, in Somerset,
00:43:51
Speaker
We like this system because it's based on some key principles that those who are benefiting, they have to contribute. Okay, it's symbolic, but they have to, this membership fee, they have contribute. They can choose what they want rather than
00:44:07
Speaker
we give them what a pack, a parcel and say that's what you have. So there is an element of choices and it's every month rather than just being a couple of times during the year. So every month. So we think it's helping the whole system of food countries aims to bring some dignity
00:44:26
Speaker
in this very difficult moment that household and families are facing and obviously it's nobody aspiration to rely on charity for its food and I think that we try to make it the most respectful possible. The coming winter
00:44:42
Speaker
is absolutely worrying. We speak about the energy price, but inflation, 10% inflation, we almost forget that, of course, the one is linked to the other, but it's not only energy. It's food is every single thing has increased by minimum 10% and is very bare minimum. It's often more than that.
00:45:09
Speaker
how people on the low revenues are going to be able to cope, it's extremely worrying. We are discussing with some of our partners here to see how we can scale up some of our activities during the winter and what will be the best way to help at our very modest level as an organisation. Yes, it'll be interesting to see what Liz Trust and her new government announces in terms of
00:45:38
Speaker
helping families with rising prices and the cost of energy as well as all of that in the months to come. But Jean-Michel, I'd love to hear more about your personal story now. I mean, you have been in a leadership role with Action Against Hunger UK. Is it 20 years you've actually been in the CEO seat? Yes, it's going to be 20 years next year. Wow. Well, tell us more about that journey and please do also share some key leadership lessons that you've learned along the way.
00:46:05
Speaker
Like I mentioned at the very beginning that I had no plan to join charities anymore. I had no plan to become a CEO. You'd be surprised how many CEOs actually say that. Yeah, exactly. I'm sure that's probably not an aspiration in the career. That's not something that we are planning. If we continue from when I joined Bosnia, when I was a major, I spent eight years going from country to country and mostly war zones to war zones.
00:46:35
Speaker
from Bosnia to Chechnya to the Roingas but the Burmese side or Myanmar side to civil war in Tajikistan and back again for the second war in Chechnya. So I spent eight years going from conflict to conflict, which has been an amazing, very rich, emotional, personal experience. It was shaped definitely my way of thinking, my approach of life, my values.
00:47:01
Speaker
Then after that I was lucky to be proposed either a job in Paris or a job in London and I decided to join London knowing that I should have mentioned that I worked out of this eight years. It was six weeks Action Against Hunger already.
00:47:18
Speaker
And when I came to the UK, I did a, after a few months, I did a cover, a maternity cover for the CEO, and then she did not come back. So how the board asked me to stay longer. That's the journey. It's a very self-made journey in the way that, as I said, I've learned so much
00:47:42
Speaker
sees opportunities. And I think that's something that I've tried to transmit to my children is to say, when you have an opportunity, first of all, opportunities do not knock on your door. You have to work and create opportunities or contribute to opportunities. And when it comes, seize it or seize them. Then these 20 years have been incredibly
00:48:07
Speaker
enriching in terms of leadership and position of CEO. I've been lucky to have a mentor, or first a mentor, then the company, a company called Bain. Bain and company, they are providing strategic advice. And for the last 15 years,
00:48:27
Speaker
I have one of the senior partners now at Bain who has been my mentor, my guide for this thing. And I've learned so much and they have created this CEO group with whom they are sharing all their learning and experience from the private sector and how this could be adapted to the charitable sector.
00:48:48
Speaker
And I've learned so much, and now most of the key elements of my thinking are often inspired by what I learned from this exchange with CEOs, and now the group of CEOs is a mix between charities and private sector, so it's even more interesting.
00:49:08
Speaker
The learnings are huge, but if I had to pick up some, first of all, it's about decisions because at the end a CEO is also about helping and making decisions. So there is, it's a process.
00:49:28
Speaker
to consult, to discuss, to make your opinion and take decisions. And I try all the time not to postpone time for decisions, because when it's too long, it can be worse. Not taking a decision is often worse than taking a poor decision. So the element of decision making, the participation, who you should consult, who should agree, who will be the final decision maker, who will implement, has to be robust.
00:49:56
Speaker
and having the right people knowing what is expected from them in this process. So that's the first one. The second one is, I mentioned it at the very beginning when we spoke about adaptability, not to fear changes.
00:50:11
Speaker
but really to embrace them. And I had to, as I mentioned, to manage two very, very big crises and radical changes were needed. And we did it as a team. We had conversation. The board has been fantastic. And that's the next one. The relationship between the senior manager and the CEO of the board is critical. And when I say senior management,
00:50:36
Speaker
I have now, for the last few years, I've decided that the senior management is not anymore, only the directors. The backbone of the organization is heads of unit, those one senior management level, and then the directors. And this group, for us, it's represent around 15 people, are really the backbone of the organization. It's not disrespectful for all the other members of the staff.
00:51:01
Speaker
But I think that this when you succeed to engage and discuss with this enlarged group and get agreement and collective decision, that's easier for you as a CEO to move forward because you have the backup, the back.
00:51:17
Speaker
by all these people. But also, it means that you have a large consultation and ideas coming from this group. So I found it extremely interesting to work with a larger group of senior leaders.
00:51:32
Speaker
We spoke about crisis. Every crisis is an opportunity. This I have learned that again and again and again. Crisis are disruptors. And yes, there is a need for short time solutions to react to a crisis. But all the time,
00:51:50
Speaker
It's about looking forward about what we need to learn, why we are in this situation and what should we do differently. And for example, when we had this COVID situation, we went through a major, major crisis in terms of we lost so much of our income, private income, because we are working a lot with the hospitality and they closed the door. So we lost one, two million almost of income like that in term projected income.
00:52:19
Speaker
But immediately, we took very tough measures.
00:52:22
Speaker
But immediately after, so it was in March, COVID, April, we took tough decision. In June already, two months later, we relaunch a complete strategy review of the organization. And so that's the moment that we need to think about the future. We had no idea how long the crisis will last, but it was a moment where we said, OK, let's look at why we are in this situation and where we want to be. And it has been,
00:52:51
Speaker
Extremely useful as well in terms of changing the mindset of people from a survival mode to looking forward.
00:53:04
Speaker
at the next step, which is the next six months to one year, and then most importantly, after that. And he gave hopes. And I think that was critical for us because we had to go through, unfortunately, a series of redundancy. It was emotionally strong. It was the first time that I had to make
00:53:26
Speaker
redundancy is at scale in the organization of my last 20 years. Then after that, we had, once we went through this very difficult period, the fact that we were discussing about strategy, it was about how we induce or drive the remaining of the team towards something positive, aspirational, and also they were engaged.
00:53:49
Speaker
into looking at the future of the organization. So that's something that we need all the time. I've been passing this motto to my team. Every crisis is an opportunity to think before taking quick decision or just to do the same as we did. We need to think about, OK, what does it mean? What can we change? Is there a need for change?
00:54:18
Speaker
That and the last one which was if they ask anybody from Bain listening to this podcast they will recognize is that what I have learned from Bain is to say
00:54:29
Speaker
Whilst innovation is good and creativity really needs to be promoted, just make sure that first you bring your co-activities. It means what you are good at to its full potential. This is a very interesting exercise all the time to say, OK, what is the value that our organization is bringing? What are we good at in terms of our impact, in terms of how people value what we are providing to them? Let's build on that.
00:54:58
Speaker
Let's be bigger, having something replicable, scalable on what we are good at. And the rest, if necessary, we cut. But let's try not to diversify too much and provide low quality or average quality on what we are doing. Let's try to all the time thinking about the added value that we are bringing.
00:55:19
Speaker
Wow, some really powerful lessons there. Jean-Michel, thank you. I really loved what you shared there. And I'm just going to briefly summarize some of the key learnings. So number one is that opportunities don't knock on your door. You have to work to create them and then seize them.
00:55:35
Speaker
Number two is like not taking a decision can be worse than taking a poor decision. You also said don't fear change, leverage your strengths and what you're really good at and what is your unique capacity to add value. And then my favorite one is really every crisis is an opportunity and that we should view crises as disruptors and
00:55:58
Speaker
almost as a catalyst for the next evolution of your organization, of the work that you're doing. And Jean-Michel, looking back at your own leadership journey, perhaps what is one thing that you might, looking back, say to yourself on day one of first becoming CEO?
00:56:15
Speaker
That at the end, even if we often say that CEO is a lonely position, it is not. It's lonely if you isolate yourself, but trust your team, pick up the right people, train them, invest in them. It's a team effort. It's not a lonely job. If you finish by being lonely, it's that you did something wrong.
00:56:42
Speaker
I love that. Well, thank you Jean-Michel. This has been such a fascinating conversation. I've really loved speaking with you and thank you for being a guest on the show. Thank you very much. Such a pleasure. Thanks, Divya.
00:56:57
Speaker
Every crisis is an opportunity, and we need to treat crises as opportunities to disrupt and change what is not working. From Covid-19 to conflict, climate change and the rising cost of living, the world is currently facing several crises. But as Jean-Michel Grand, CEO of Action Against Hunger UK, so eloquently shared, a child not having enough food to eat in order to stay alive should not be one that is allowed to continue.
00:57:26
Speaker
I hope you enjoyed this latest episode of the Charity CEO podcast. A show that, thanks to you, our listeners, has repeatedly reached the number one spot in Apple's nonprofit podcast category. If you found this conversation valuable, please share or tag us on Twitter or LinkedIn or Instagram, and make sure you subscribe to the show by clicking the subscribe button on your podcast app.
00:57:48
Speaker
If you are feeling inspired or uplifted by what you have just heard, please share the joy and leave us a five-star review. Visit our website thecharityceo.com for full show details, information on previous season episodes, and to submit ideas for future guests. In order to balance my personal and professional commitments, the show will now come to you once a month instead of fortnightly. But I assure you it will be worth the wait. Thank you for listening.